Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: KelseyJG This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 03:35 AM
Hi everyone,

I've been reading a lot of the threads here for the past couple weeks and felt it was time to put my specific situation out there to hopefully get some advice. I've been working with a marriage coach, who has been wonderful, but sometimes I need some help outside of normal business hours!

My husband of 4 years (together 7) mentioned to me back in March 2019 that he was feeling distance between us. I agreed. We both didn't know from where it was stemming, but agreed that it was good to put it out there and try to work on some things. (Of note, last year, he graduated law school, started a new career as an attorney, we bought a house, his grandmother passed away, then sold our house almost a year later because we hated so much about it, and life just went along full steam ahead.) A couple of months went by without any improvement so we decided to see a marriage counselor. Each session, we discussed some small issues but never really uncovered anything profound. At the time, both of us shared the goal of our marriage getting back to the fun, loving, happy relationship that it had been. As our sessions went on, I felt my husband pulling further and further away until he eventually admitted that he felt he needed more space, more independence, and that he couldn't get that living in the same house with me. I was totally against it, but told him if that's what he thought he needed in order for us to heal, then fine. He moved out mid-September. We continued to go on dates, texted each other, he helped take care of our two dogs while I was at work (I work 12-hr night shifts), etc. But by the 3rd week, he was reaching out less and less. I was trying to just give him space so barely initiated contact. Though when he did come by or reach out at that point, I let my hurt show (which I now realize was a terrible mistake). A month into this "trial separation" he told me he couldn't stand that both of us were hurting this much, for this long, and that he couldn't see a light at the end of the tunnel for our relationship so he wants a divorce. He just wants to be single now. I was totally blindsided! I did all the wrong things...begged him to give it more time, tried to remind him of how good we are together, how much we loved each other, that he hasn't put effort (he even admitted this in therapy back in August) in to healing us, that he made a promise to me and to God, etc. He was totally shut down, saying he's just done, he wants to be single, and we'll eventually get over the hurt of a divorce. Oddly, after the shock of everything died down a little, he didn't really want to leave and I didn't really want him to so we went out for dinner together, then walked our dogs together once we got home. But of course I couldn't hold it together through that and just kept breaking down. Ugh. He then left, saying we would have more to talk about later. A few days later, I found this Divorce Busting strategy and started trying to implement it. We had a mutual friend's birthday party to go to and actually got drinks together beforehand and had a really nice time. Then went to the party, socialized, he left a bit early but pulled me aside to say goodbye. So I was hopeful I could turn things around. Using the last-resort technique, I didn't reach out to him except for absolutely necessary things, such as ensuring dog care. He would respond amicably, but otherwise barely reached out to me and eventually, just nothing until today. He sent me a text saying he has the court paperwork that needs some signatures and wanted to see if I'd be willing to meet sometime this week. I have been terrified of this moment. I responded that I had been hopeful he wouldn't actually go through with this, but now that he was taking action, I needed some time to wrap my head around it. I would be willing to get together to catch up, but I wouldn't be signing anything without my own attorney present. He asked if I had an attorney and then went off about how he knows I need to "process" this but that he told me a month ago he was doing this and doesn't want to keep drawing it out. He doesn't plan on getting an attorney and hoped we could just go about this mutually. But this is SO NOT MUTUAL! I have faith in our relationship. We used to have a wonderful relationship and it just seems that all the life stresses we went through over the past year pushed him into an early mid-life crisis (he's 33 y/o)! This man is not the same man I married, but I know he's in there somewhere and I am willing to do everything I can to get us back on track. But I don't know how to proceed from here. He seems in such a rush to end things officially. Any advice???
Posted By: Cadet Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 09:53 AM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 11:37 AM
Originally Posted by KelseyJG
Hi everyone,

I've been reading a lot of the threads here for the past couple weeks and felt it was time to put my specific situation out there to hopefully get some advice. I've been working with a marriage coach, who has been wonderful, but sometimes I need some help outside of normal business hours!

My husband of 4 years (together 7) mentioned to me back in March 2019 that he was feeling distance between us. I agreed. We both didn't know from where it was stemming, but agreed that it was good to put it out there and try to work on some things. (Of note, last year, he graduated law school, started a new career as an attorney, we bought a house, his grandmother passed away, then sold our house almost a year later because we hated so much about it, and life just went along full steam ahead.) A couple of months went by without any improvement so we decided to see a marriage counselor. Each session, we discussed some small issues but never really uncovered anything profound. At the time, both of us shared the goal of our marriage getting back to the fun, loving, happy relationship that it had been. As our sessions went on, I felt my husband pulling further and further away until he eventually admitted that he felt he needed more space, more independence, and that he couldn't get that living in the same house with me. I was totally against it, but told him if that's what he thought he needed in order for us to heal, then fine. He moved out mid-September. We continued to go on dates, texted each other, he helped take care of our two dogs while I was at work (I work 12-hr night shifts), etc. But by the 3rd week, he was reaching out less and less. I was trying to just give him space so barely initiated contact. Though when he did come by or reach out at that point, I let my hurt show (which I now realize was a terrible mistake). A month into this "trial separation" he told me he couldn't stand that both of us were hurting this much, for this long, and that he couldn't see a light at the end of the tunnel for our relationship so he wants a divorce. He just wants to be single now. I was totally blindsided! I did all the wrong things...begged him to give it more time, tried to remind him of how good we are together, how much we loved each other, that he hasn't put effort (he even admitted this in therapy back in August) in to healing us, that he made a promise to me and to God, etc. He was totally shut down, saying he's just done, he wants to be single, and we'll eventually get over the hurt of a divorce. Oddly, after the shock of everything died down a little, he didn't really want to leave and I didn't really want him to so we went out for dinner together, then walked our dogs together once we got home. But of course I couldn't hold it together through that and just kept breaking down. Ugh. He then left, saying we would have more to talk about later. A few days later, I found this Divorce Busting strategy and started trying to implement it. We had a mutual friend's birthday party to go to and actually got drinks together beforehand and had a really nice time. Then went to the party, socialized, he left a bit early but pulled me aside to say goodbye. So I was hopeful I could turn things around. Using the last-resort technique, I didn't reach out to him except for absolutely necessary things, such as ensuring dog care. He would respond amicably, but otherwise barely reached out to me and eventually, just nothing until today. He sent me a text saying he has the court paperwork that needs some signatures and wanted to see if I'd be willing to meet sometime this week. I have been terrified of this moment. I responded that I had been hopeful he wouldn't actually go through with this, but now that he was taking action, I needed some time to wrap my head around it. I would be willing to get together to catch up, but I wouldn't be signing anything without my own attorney present. He asked if I had an attorney and then went off about how he knows I need to "process" this but that he told me a month ago he was doing this and doesn't want to keep drawing it out. He doesn't plan on getting an attorney and hoped we could just go about this mutually. But this is SO NOT MUTUAL! I have faith in our relationship. We used to have a wonderful relationship and it just seems that all the life stresses we went through over the past year pushed him into an early mid-life crisis (he's 33 y/o)! This man is not the same man I married, but I know he's in there somewhere and I am willing to do everything I can to get us back on track. But I don't know how to proceed from here. He seems in such a rush to end things officially. Any advice???


Brace yourself for the inevitable: there is someone else. I know you will deny this, we all go through the denial stage. But all of the markers are there. I am guessing it is someone he works with. I am not saying this to hurt you (though it probably does) but because you have to face the reality of the situation.

My advice? Go whole hog on DBing and LRT.

"I responded that I had been hopeful he wouldn't actually go through with this, but now that he was taking action, I needed some time to wrap my head around it. I would be willing to get together to catch up, but I wouldn't be signing anything without my own attorney present."

This response was almost good, but you should have left out: " I would be willing to get together to catch up" That is not LRT. That is more desperate, needy, non-DBing behavior. You should be pulling the plug on all social activities with him. Yes I know this is scary. Most of us that get told this start asking "but then how will I know if he wants to get back together". Trust me on this......IF HE EVER WANTS TO GET BACK TOGETHER, YOU WILL KNOW. It will be unambiguous.

We have a saying around here: When they want to get back together you will know, if they don't you will be confused.

So how are you feeling right now? Confused, right?

Let him go to get him back. Tell him you are not comfortable getting together to sign anything. Tell him to send you the paperwork so you can have your lawyer look it over. Then just stop communicating about it. If he continues to text you about it, just restate that he is to send it to you so that you can have your attorney look it over. He will get angry. He will get mad. He wants to fast track things, take the easy way out. Your job isn't to stop the D, but A) to protect yourself and B) to slow things down so he can have some time to consider what he is actually doing. Do not actively block the D, but don't do anything that helps it along. For instance, if he says "I need to X document from our files, can you find it and send it/bring it?" Your response: "I am sorry, I am very busy at the moment, you are welcome to let yourself in and find whatever you need."

In the meantime.........Kelsey should be GAL like a madwoman. Do not sit home and stew and worry. Get out and stay active physically and mentally. Join a gym. Find ladies groups. Start going to church (my favorite!). Also, get into IC for yourself. This combines GAL with 180s. We all can improve ourselves, use this time as a chance to make self-improvements.

And finally study and learn what detachment is and start detaching. Detaching in a nutshell is not reacting emotionally to what he says and does. He could come to you and tell you "I have been engaging in threesomes with 2 women at the office" and your response would be a nonplussed "oh....ok." No more crying, begging, pleading.

A certain bald-headed Texas TV psychologist likes to ask women like you "why are you sitting around waiting for this old boy?" So start deciding what you want, and start going out and getting it. (Note: saying you want HIM is not allowed, it has to be things like fulfillment, happiness, etc. IE things he can't provide for you and that you shouldn't be looking to others to provide anyway!)

Finally, realize that you can only control you. Not him. Drop the rope. Detach. Move forward with or without him.
Posted By: firemann Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 12:46 PM
One thing that I started doing when detaching was remembering who i was and what I enjoyed prior to going out with my STBXW. i got back into photography, playing hockey and cooking - all things before I met her. I started going to church too and laying all of these worrysome things I cant control at Jesus' feet for Him to solve.

There may or may not be someone else, and detaching for me was the biggest challenge. I'd keep doing LRT and if he comes back, so be it. Either way, you will have gotten back YOU and probably the best version of you ever.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 02:38 PM
I'm so sorry Kelsey...

Steve has some great advice. Most likely his eye wandered a while ago. It's hard to maintain one relationship, but trying to do 2 relationships with the stress, shame, guilt, and pressure all around? That's very hard.

What's hard for you is to recognize his pain and to try and really THINK and not FEEL your way through this. He's sending lots of mixed messages bc he is all over the place. We have a saying here, please drive this into your head:

"Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". It applies to everyone you meet and all the time.

My advice is to remove pressure, don't discuss things in details, protect your emotions, and recognize important things. You don't have kids together I take it. LRT it is. Talking about the dogs seems unnecessary. I love my dog and so does my W but if she separated I would take care of the dog and not mention it to my W.

Also, there are some great gals here that will be in to support you from the feminine side. Stay strong sister!
Posted By: KelseyJG Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 03:14 PM
Thank you all. I have slowly admitted to myself that there is most likely someone else. I did ask him this when he dropped the bomb and he denied that there is or ever was someone else. He’s never been one to lie, especially not to me, but obviously all this is very out of character for him so why trust him? I’m feeling more and more certain he’s gotten a little too friendly with a girl at his CrossFit gym. He’s even now planning on getting his level 1 coaching certification. As if an attorney doesn’t have enough on his plate.

I thought I was implementing the LRT and trying to GAL over the past month. I started learning to play the piano, joined a gym and go 4 times a week, I have been in individual counseling, just started going back to church, and plan on starting a book club with some girlfriends. However, I’ve realized I was really doing all those things with the hope that it would help save our marriage, not really for me. I wasn’t reaching out to him through this time, but he showed no interest in what I’ve been doing at all so I’ve felt quite panicky.

I’m still struggling with wrapping my head around truly detaching. That feels so wrong, like I’m giving up on us. And technically, yes, our divorce would be very simple and straightforward so I’m afraid I don’t have time on my side. We don’t have kids and don’t own property together. Our dogs and some purchases (such as a car and furniture) are all we really have tying us together. If I’m not to actively block the divorce from happening, how do I keep slowing things down??
Posted By: Many worries Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I'm so sorry Kelsey...

Steve has some great advice. Most likely his eye wandered a while ago. It's hard to maintain one relationship, but trying to do 2 relationships with the stress, shame, guilt, and pressure all around? That's very hard.

What's hard for you is to recognize his pain and to try and really THINK and not FEEL your way through this. He's sending lots of mixed messages bc he is all over the place. We have a saying here, please drive this into your head:

"Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". It applies to everyone you meet and all the time.

My advice is to remove pressure, don't discuss things in details, protect your emotions, and recognize important things. You don't have kids together I take it. LRT it is. Talking about the dogs seems unnecessary. I love my dog and so does my W but if she separated I would take care of the dog and not mention it to my W.

Also, there are some great gals here that will be in to support you from the feminine side. Stay strong sister!


I know that Steven was cheated on... so he sees everyone the same. But without more evidence it adds NOTHING to the conversation.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 03:56 PM
Originally Posted by KelseyJG
If I’m not to actively block the divorce from happening, how do I keep slowing things down??


You slow it down by making him do everything. By not responding to things related to it right away. "Sorry, I am busy."
You just do not act like an active participant in the divorce except for things you are legally bound to do. If he questions you on it is okay to tell him "I am still opposed to this D, but I will not stand in your way." However, it is unrealistic for him to expect you to not retain a lawyer. D is a legal proceeding and you need legal counsel to guide you. Someone that is not personally invested in the D (IE, not him). The example I gave is how you do it.

Him: "I need a copy of our marriage license. Please find it and bring it to me."
You: "Sorry, I have a lot going on right now. You are free to come by and find our ML anytime."

A lot of times WASs will get lazy and want the LBS to take care of these kinds of things related to D. Make him do the dirty work.

Originally Posted by Many worries
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I'm so sorry Kelsey...

Steve has some great advice. Most likely his eye wandered a while ago. It's hard to maintain one relationship, but trying to do 2 relationships with the stress, shame, guilt, and pressure all around? That's very hard.

What's hard for you is to recognize his pain and to try and really THINK and not FEEL your way through this. He's sending lots of mixed messages bc he is all over the place. We have a saying here, please drive this into your head:

"Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". It applies to everyone you meet and all the time.

My advice is to remove pressure, don't discuss things in details, protect your emotions, and recognize important things. You don't have kids together I take it. LRT it is. Talking about the dogs seems unnecessary. I love my dog and so does my W but if she separated I would take care of the dog and not mention it to my W.

Also, there are some great gals here that will be in to support you from the feminine side. Stay strong sister!


I know that Steven was cheated on... so he sees everyone the same. But without more evidence it adds NOTHING to the conversation.



While true, I also know that in 99.9% of all D's there is a third party. So I wanted Kelsey to understand that likelihood (sounds like she was already there herself), because nothing sets detachment back further than not being able to handle the truth. We've seen DBers that made a lot of strides, but when the truth of their WAS' A came to light, they went back to crying, begging, pleading. Your goal Kelsey is to brace for that truth so that you have no reaction. I've said before that if my W were to BD me again my reaction would be "Oh okay, how quickly can you be out?" And then go back to what I was doing.

If your case ends up being the .01% that there isn't someone else, that is almost worse. As give a WAS a fog that makes them think everything will be perfect with the other person. When that fog eventually pops, there is a chance, if the LBS is still willing, that the WAS will want to come back. If he truly wants to be single again, that is a much harder fog for him to wake-up from.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 04:03 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

My advice is to remove pressure, don't discuss things in details, protect your emotions, and recognize important things. You don't have kids together I take it. LRT it is. Talking about the dogs seems unnecessary. I love my dog and so does my W but if she separated I would take care of the dog and not mention it to my W.


over hit on something important here. First he is right about removing all pressure. If you are doing LRT then this should be part of that. But notice his comment on the dogs.

A lot of LBS will use excuses where they make something that isn't important so important that they HAVE to contact their WAS. However, as ovr is alluding to it seems maybe you are using the dogs as an excuse to contact him. I had dogs when I was single. I didn't need anyone's help in caring for them. If you end up D'd you will likely be in the same position. So don't contact him about the dogs.....start caring for them as if you are single. It is part of LRT and detachment.

I also see you struggling, like we all do at first, with the idea of detachment. Detachment is not giving up.....it is no longer allowing his words and deeds have an impact on you emotionally.

Do the reading cadet sent you. It will help clear all of that up.
Posted By: RyanHun Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 04:30 PM
Kelsey,
Sorry to hear of the struggles. You have come to the right place and will not find a better group of people to help guide you through this. There is some great advice already but one thing I just wanted to add that I didn't see already mentioned is to 100% look into getting an attorney and I would make it known to him that it is your intention to do things through lawyers as it is a complex legal process with possible life long implications if wrong decisions are made. It is extremely common on this board and was the same in my situation where the walk away spouse wants things done as fast and cheap as possible just so they can escape. My stbxw wanted an internet divorce originally. Who knows how things will play out, hope for the best, prepare for the worst but make sure you have your ducks in a row.
Posted By: KelseyJG Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 05:50 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
[quote=ovrrnbw]

A lot of LBS will use excuses where they make something that isn't important so important that they HAVE to contact their WAS. However, as ovr is alluding to it seems maybe you are using the dogs as an excuse to contact him. I had dogs when I was single. I didn't need anyone's help in caring for them. If you end up D'd you will likely be in the same position. So don't contact him about the dogs.....start caring for them as if you are single. It is part of LRT and detachment.

I also see you struggling, like we all do at first, with the idea of detachment. Detachment is not giving up.....it is no longer allowing his words and deeds have an impact on you emotionally.

Do the reading cadet sent you. It will help clear all of that up.


I absolutely have used the dogs as an excuse to contact him. It's basically the only text exchanges we've had for weeks. I realize that and will own up to it. When he was preparing to move out, we set up some guidelines for it and dog care was one of the big ones. Again, I work 12-hr night shifts, which means I'm gone from the house for almost 14 hours. They're smaller dogs and need a potty break during that time. We adopted these dogs together and he adores them so, of course, wants them to be well taken care of and still wants to spend some time with them. However, I understand that if we go through with the D, I will have to provide full care for them. The apartment he rented doesn't allow pets (insert eye roll). So even though I'm not supposed to be contacting him, do I go ahead and set up dog care and tell him he no longer needs to come let them out on my work nights? Or is that releasing him of his responsibilities?

I have started reading the detachment info and am really trying to take it to heart and put it into practice. But it will take that: practice. I've been holding on to hope that we would reconcile, though maybe my hope has just been coming off more as denial. The thought of truly letting him go just makes me sick to my stomach.

Originally Posted by RyanHun
Kelsey,
Sorry to hear of the struggles. You have come to the right place and will not find a better group of people to help guide you through this. There is some great advice already but one thing I just wanted to add that I didn't see already mentioned is to 100% look into getting an attorney and I would make it known to him that it is your intention to do things through lawyers as it is a complex legal process with possible life long implications if wrong decisions are made. It is extremely common on this board and was the same in my situation where the walk away spouse wants things done as fast and cheap as possible just so they can escape. My stbxw wanted an internet divorce originally. Who knows how things will play out, hope for the best, prepare for the worst but make sure you have your ducks in a row.


Thank you. I am already working on finding an attorney. My dad is an attorney and then I married one, so I've been "well trained" in reading through everything I sign and bringing in experts when the time calls for one. He definitely seems to want to just get this over with so we can both move on. I have no intention of making this process easy for him, but I also don't want it to lead to us hating each other.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 06:28 PM


"Tarzan NEVER lets go of one vine until he has a FIRM grip on the next one"


In private, morn the death of the relationship. Cry, get angry, do whatever you need to do. In public, project happy, confident, sexy and the most amazing woman you can be. Enjoy interacting with everyone. Stay in the present as much as possible. If thoughts of the past or worries about the future come up, tell yourself, i will deal with that later.
Channel angry energy into action.

Going through this process hurts, coming out the other end you will be a much better, healthier person.


HUGS
Posted By: Many worries Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 06:33 PM
Originally Posted by KelseyJG


Thank you. I am already working on finding an attorney. My dad is an attorney and then I married one, so I've been "well trained" in reading through everything I sign and bringing in experts when the time calls for one. He definitely seems to want to just get this over with so we can both move on. I have no intention of making this process easy for him, but I also don't want it to lead to us hating each other.



Unfortunately, it will probably get worse before it gets better. Many WAS see the attorney as a threat to their plans. Divorce proceedings without kids can be less complex and don't require an expert. But it's still a good idea to see an attorney.

I was thinking about your (and others) situation on my run today. Many LBS hold on to the idea that the paper work isn't filed or isn't complete or etc. But in the end a piece of paper or legal ruling doesn't make a person love or not love a person. Someone said it here - the WAS already sees the marriage as over - regardless of an official ruling. Many will act as if they are not married, etc.

So I wouldn't get hung up on making the process easier or harder for him. I see a lot of LBS talk about how they are going to make it hard, etc. You certainly don't have to make it easy, convenient or quick for him.

You just need to make any process fair to your situation.
Posted By: HopeCA Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 07:00 PM
Quote
I was thinking about your (and others) situation on my run today. Many LBS hold on to the idea that the paper work isn't filed or isn't complete or etc. But in the end a piece of paper or legal ruling doesn't make a person love or not love a person. Someone said it here - the WAS already sees the marriage as over - regardless of an official ruling. Many will act as if they are not married, etc.

So I wouldn't get hung up on making the process easier or harder for him. I see a lot of LBS talk about how they are going to make it hard, etc. You certainly don't have to make it easy, convenient or quick for him.

You just need to make any process fair to your situation.



I totally agree that paperwork and legal process (or lack thereof) dont determine if there is love between spouses. In my opinion though, the point of slowing down the D process (while not blocking it) is to allow for more time for the possibility for things to change, for the WAS to slow down and realize what they are doing, and have an opportunity to think clearly.
I agree that it isn’t something to get hung up on per se, but personally I do think it’s worth putting thought into.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/16/19 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by HopeCA
Quote
I was thinking about your (and others) situation on my run today. Many LBS hold on to the idea that the paper work isn't filed or isn't complete or etc. But in the end a piece of paper or legal ruling doesn't make a person love or not love a person. Someone said it here - the WAS already sees the marriage as over - regardless of an official ruling. Many will act as if they are not married, etc.

So I wouldn't get hung up on making the process easier or harder for him. I see a lot of LBS talk about how they are going to make it hard, etc. You certainly don't have to make it easy, convenient or quick for him.

You just need to make any process fair to your situation.



I totally agree that paperwork and legal process (or lack thereof) dont determine if there is love between spouses. In my opinion though, the point of slowing down the D process (while not blocking it) is to allow for more time for the possibility for things to change, for the WAS to slow down and realize what they are doing, and have an opportunity to think clearly.
I agree that it isn’t something to get hung up on per se, but personally I do think it’s worth putting thought into.


That is certainly part of it. No doubt. But it is also about ethics. Most people are either ethically or morally opposed to divorce. So your WAS coming to you and saying "he, be a co-conspirator in my plan" is no different than if your spouse came to you and said "be a co-conspirator in my plan to murder the neighbor". You would from an ethical and moral standpoint refuse to be part of such a plot. So by not "helping" the D you are standing up for your morals and ethics. This is why I suggest doing nothing that isn't legally required and/or ordered by court. Show up for the hearings. Hire an attorney. Sign anything that you are required to sign. But make the WAS do all the dirty work. They are notoriously lazy when it comes to that kind of thing and will often leave as much as they can to the LBS. And, in fact, a majority of the time it is the LBS, tired of waiting around, that finally pushes the D through. We' ve seen that play out dozens of times on this board.
Posted By: Many worries Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/17/19 03:00 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85


That is certainly part of it. No doubt. But it is also about ethics. Most people are either ethically or morally opposed to divorce. So your WAS coming to you and saying "he, be a co-conspirator in my plan" is no different than if your spouse came to you and said "be a co-conspirator in my plan to murder the neighbor". You would from an ethical and moral standpoint refuse to be part of such a plot. So by not "helping" the D you are standing up for your morals and ethics. This is why I suggest doing nothing that isn't legally required and/or ordered by court. Show up for the hearings. Hire an attorney. Sign anything that you are required to sign. But make the WAS do all the dirty work. They are notoriously lazy when it comes to that kind of thing and will often leave as much as they can to the LBS. And, in fact, a majority of the time it is the LBS, tired of waiting around, that finally pushes the D through. We' ve seen that play out dozens of times on this board.



Divorce is legal in every state. In fact, you don't even need the other party to fully participate. equating it to murder? come on. it's also ethical to love and honor your spouse....many LBS's violated those ethics long before the BD. So if you are going to lecture your WAS on ethics...you'd better make sure you haven't violated any in the marriage. Situational ethics are just as bad as no ethics.

Sandi2 had a great point about telling your WAS that you are "honoring my vows." It just comes off as holier than thou.

My point was that a piece of paper by itself doesn't mean that she/he will love you.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/17/19 03:18 PM
Originally Posted by Many worries
Originally Posted by Steve85


That is certainly part of it. No doubt. But it is also about ethics. Most people are either ethically or morally opposed to divorce. So your WAS coming to you and saying "he, be a co-conspirator in my plan" is no different than if your spouse came to you and said "be a co-conspirator in my plan to murder the neighbor". You would from an ethical and moral standpoint refuse to be part of such a plot. So by not "helping" the D you are standing up for your morals and ethics. This is why I suggest doing nothing that isn't legally required and/or ordered by court. Show up for the hearings. Hire an attorney. Sign anything that you are required to sign. But make the WAS do all the dirty work. They are notoriously lazy when it comes to that kind of thing and will often leave as much as they can to the LBS. And, in fact, a majority of the time it is the LBS, tired of waiting around, that finally pushes the D through. We' ve seen that play out dozens of times on this board.



Divorce is legal in every state. In fact, you don't even need the other party to fully participate. equating it to murder? come on. it's also ethical to love and honor your spouse....many LBS's violated those ethics long before the BD. So if you are going to lecture your WAS on ethics...you'd better make sure you haven't violated any in the marriage. Situational ethics are just as bad as no ethics.

Sandi2 had a great point about telling your WAS that you are "honoring my vows." It just comes off as holier than thou.

My point was that a piece of paper by itself doesn't mean that she/he will love you.


Many worries, great points! Though I don't agree with everything you say, I certainly see where you are coming from in your perspective. I wasn't really equating divorce to murder, only making the point that when something is ethically and morally reprehensible to you, you won't actively participate. And that is regardless of the poor decisions and bad ethical and moral choices you've made up to that point. Have a blessed day.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/17/19 06:15 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
...great points! Though I don't agree with everything you say, I certainly see where you are coming from in your perspective.
Where did you learn to validate so well....
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/17/19 06:16 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by Steve85
...great points! Though I don't agree with everything you say, I certainly see where you are coming from in your perspective.
Where did you learn to validate so well....


Heh.
Posted By: KelseyJG Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/17/19 10:28 PM
Really trying to dive in to "letting go". I had some positive moments yesterday of letting myself think about life with us apart. It was freeing and horribly difficult at the same time.

I went through some decorations, knick-knacks, etc that we've still had boxed up since moving over the summer and pulled out his personal items that he never bothered to grab when he moved out. I start my "work week" tonight and typically my husband comes over to let the dogs out before bedtime, as I've mentioned before. There has been no discussion that that has changed, so I'm assuming he'll be by sometime tonight. I was thinking about leaving the box of his stuff by the door for him to take...maybe leaving a note that just says I thought he might like to have these items to make his place more comfortable/home-y. Thoughts?
Posted By: KelseyJG Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/19/19 11:21 PM
Having a rough day. I've worked the past two nights and haven't slept well between shifts so that's probably part of it.

The other day, I posted about packing up some of his stuff that was still boxed up with the rest of our mutual belongings and leaving it for him for when he came over to take the dogs out. I thought I was being strong and letting go by "helping" him complete the move-out process. When I got home in the morning, the box was gone. He didn't say anything to me about it. I tried not to have expectations of some contact, but I was disappointed nonetheless. Like it really got to me. I know I'm supposed to not believe anything he says and only half of what he does. Well, he's not saying anything and everything he's doing is continuing to pull away/distance himself. I feel that hope of reconciliation slipping away from me.

I'm assuming the advice to not contact him, let him initiate contact still stands? Has anyone else experienced this--where your spouse just doesn't reach out at all?
Posted By: DaB35 Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/20/19 06:04 PM
Hi Kelsey, yes I'm experiencing this with my W. I was the one who caused her to BD - I admit I made the mistakes. But she wasn't perfect either.

The hardest thing is resisting the temptation to reach out. It does get easier over time; over a matter of weeks I found that, by doing activities for myself alone, the need to get that 'fix' of a reaction (however small) from my W diminished. That is not to say I don't miss her. I have moments when I wish a DeLorean time machine did exist, and I'd go back a comfortable distance - say a couple of years - and just sort everything out, knowing what I know now. But I can't do that. So you have to look ahead instead.

I would get the odd thanks text if I did certain things, but now we hardly speak - I've not seen her for 5 weeks, and she's probably texted me 10 times in that time. I think all you can do is expect it.

You have to show him that life without you will be rubbish. That's why you go out and do stuff; make yourself feel good about yourself. You'll act and be more confident and that should unnerve him.

Your actions will say so much more than just words in a text to him. Make them count.
Posted By: kas99 Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/20/19 09:31 PM
if I could go back and knock some sense into myself I would. My H would text after he moved out but it was about money, kids, not much but more than it needed to be. A handful of texts but mostly it felt like he was getting the best of both worlds, the freedom of single life and me as plan B. As long as I packed his stuff, played nice, I don’t know it gave a false hope that maybe he’d change his mind. He didn’t but I hung on every word, every text. As the business end of our relationship ended so did the texts. Days, weeks, nothing but as soon as I started feeling better he’d send some lame text, lame to me anyway. This went on for 4.5 months before I’d had enough. For my own sanity it had to stop.

I’ve gone dark. 2.5 months now. I’ve sent 2 separate one line questions via email (I no longer text) that I needed answers to but that’s it. He answered and I didn’t reply. We have kids but they are teenagers so we parallel parent. No contact.

This is bothering my H (slightly) but it’s helping me a lot. Take your power back. Find your dignity and self respect. Show him with your actions that you can and will be okay without him. The sooner you can master this the sooner you will feel better. It will be the hardest thing you’ve ever done but no do not contact him and if he contacts you wait a day (or at least 30 minutes) then answer. All business.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/21/19 05:11 PM
Originally Posted by KelseyJG
Having a rough day. I've worked the past two nights and haven't slept well between shifts so that's probably part of it.

The other day, I posted about packing up some of his stuff that was still boxed up with the rest of our mutual belongings and leaving it for him for when he came over to take the dogs out. I thought I was being strong and letting go by "helping" him complete the move-out process. When I got home in the morning, the box was gone. He didn't say anything to me about it. I tried not to have expectations of some contact, but I was disappointed nonetheless. Like it really got to me. I know I'm supposed to not believe anything he says and only half of what he does. Well, he's not saying anything and everything he's doing is continuing to pull away/distance himself. I feel that hope of reconciliation slipping away from me.

I'm assuming the advice to not contact him, let him initiate contact still stands? Has anyone else experienced this--where your spouse just doesn't reach out at all?


We've seen sitches where this was the case. However, eventually, they all reach out. It may take 6 hours, or 6 months. Eventually he will reach out. Kelsey, the key to handling this isn't whether or not you contact him. Of course you should not. What you should not be doing is sitting by the phone waiting for him to reach out. Get out there and GAL like a madwoman!
Posted By: KelseyJG Re: This is really happening...?!? - 10/22/19 08:50 PM
Thank you all for the responses. I am practicing self-control and have not reached out to him. I'm really trying to stick to the LRT. I have been keeping busy, reaching out to new friends, going new places, etc. I'm meditating daily and really working on shifting my internal dialogue to one of more self-compassion. I think it's working. I woke up this morning and for the first time in WEEKS (maybe even months), my first thoughts were not about my husband or our situation! I can't even remember what it was, just something mundane and "normal", but it was so freeing to not be automatically consumed by this.

I then went about my day and while out shopping, my husband texted me! He said, "So I know you said we could meet to catch up but not discuss anything...my thing is I would like that, but I'm not sure it wouldn't come up...I'm down to meet for a coffee or food to talk sometime, but vice versa I wouldn't want to talk about the opposite, i.e. talking me out of it which might also come up." I haven't responded yet. I was hoping I could get some input from the group here. Thoughts on how to respond??
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