I am a Newcomer to DB, but have found the site and the forums very insightful. I am 32 y/o LBW married for 4 years, together for 7 with my 31 y/o WW. We have had a beautiful R with very few arguments and a fulfilling life. She graduated from college and was going through the rough transition of finding a career position when the OW came into the picture. At first, we were all just friends but my gut quickly alerted me that something was "off". I told my W about my fears and concerns which, of course, pushed her further away and right into a closer friendship with OW. BD about her feelings for OW in Oct 2018 (one year- insert sarcastic "woo"). She immediately moved out to her own rental and said she needed to "find" herself but began a full blown love affair with OW - she admitted PA in Jan.
Fast forward over the last 12 months and it has been a rollercoaster of ups and downs. She has moved back home 3 separate times and tried of several occasions to end contact with OW unsuccessfully. Most recently, she moved closer to home and is renting a house that we had considered buying in the past. I get confused about her feelings bc we still spend at least 3 days/nights together and say ILY. There is no intimacy other than hugging as we both decided that it would not be a good idea as long as OW is still in the picture. She is still spending time and spending the night with the OW as well although she tells me that nothing physical has happened between them since March of this year.
I know I need to GAL and work on detaching, but am in desperate need of some advice on how I do that when I am still madly in love and want to spend time together. I wait by my phone, always reply pretty quickly (although I'm working on that), I never say no to plans, etc. She isn't hateful or cruel during our hangouts and is so thoughtful and sweet it still feels like we're married and happy. We still dream about a future together, but she is in love with both of us and I don't know how to get out of this rut! Any and all help is so appreciated and thanks for listening!
_____________
W 32 me
W 31
T7 M4
no kids
4 dogs
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Im sorry you are here. Read everything Cadet posted. Also read what Sandi posts. The vets will be along shortly and are very helpful.
Your WW is eating cake and keeping you on the hook as a solid plan B. You need to put a stop to this. She is disrespecting you and your MR blatantly without regard for you at all.
Its time to focus on yourself. Yes you are in love and it hurts. But the cycle of hurt will never end unless you take action. Turn your focus from your WW and turn it to yourself. What can you do to 180 any toxic behavior you had that contributed to your half of the MR? Recognize that behavior and stop it.
Stop pursuing your WW. No more hugs, ILY, nothing. Start bettering yourself for yourself. Start making decisions based on whether or not they will benefit you or better you as a person and stop making decisions based on how your WW will react or what she does. What she does no longer matters. She needs to feel the loss of you and understand that you love and respect yourself too much to allow the disrespect to continue.
She is eating cake to the max. She has a saftey net with you as a solid plan b and continues her A openly without regard for you. Treat her accordingly. No being ugly, no arguing, no demanding, no ultimatums, no begging, pleading or crying. Just focus 100% on yourself and detach yourself from her. Stop seeing her, stop calling her, stop texting her. Unless there is something important you really have no need to speak with her.
You must get to a point where you are indifferent to her actions. Get to the point where you are comfortable and confident that you are going to be fine, because you will be fine. It may take a while but it will happen. A year of this has to have been brutal for you. Drop the rope, detach, move on with your life.
If you detach and DB successfully, your WW may feel the loss and may pursue you to repair the MR. That may not happen but the path you choose now will ensure you are perfectly fine and content no matter what. You may get to the point where its too late for her. She may come back and you have completely moved on and dont want her back. But all of that wont happen until you focus on you and detach yourself emotionally from her.
You are trapped in a cycle of extreme emotional abuse because of this. Its your job to get yourself out. Protect yourself. Keep posting.
SoTorn,
Thanks for the advice. I have tried so many times to detach and really remove her from my heart. I gave her a letter that I had spent over a month revising basically informing her that I would no longer allow the OW to be a part of my life and that as long as she saw fit to be involved, I would not be available. We didn't speak or see each other for 7 days and I was starting to do well. Imagining a life with or without, hanging out with friends, enjoying being alone. Of course on day 7 she called broken and crying saying that she would do anything, end everything with OW, MC, etc and that she did not want to lose me. I caved way too quickly. Things were fantastic for a solid month. She moved home, ended contact with OW, said things were getting better for her. AND....BOOM.. another BD with the revelation that she thinks she rushed back home and she isn't sure and wanted to move out to work on herself. Contact resumed with OW and now here we are again.
I just don't understand how people can be so solid in detaching from someone they truly enjoy spending time with. It would be so much easier to detach if she was a jerk, hateful, or made it uncomfortable to talk/hangout.
DB 101:
Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do
Time + Space
Respect + Attraction
Validation + Listening
GAL
Boundaries
Stop seeing and talking to your W. Simple but hard. There's not much reason for interaction at this point.
Quit the ILYs. Quit allowing your W to come and go as she pleases or at least GAL when she comes around. Try to leave before she gets there.
Yes you jumped too quickly at her crumbs. You need to go dark. Ignore her unless its very important. She may be telling you she loves you. But words mean nothing. Actions mean everything.
Seven days is just a tiny blip in your situation and is in no way enough time for you to detach. Thats why you picked up the phone and talked to her. It takes a very long time to detach. In my situation my exww started mistreating me around October 2017. It got bad around spring 2018. Got BD in August 2018. Confirmed A October 2018. It took literally every ounce of my emotional energy to pry my exww from my heart.
I went dim as I lived with her and focused solely on myself. I took the hard route and accepted that my MR was over and that I would not move forward with a cheater. She wish washed on divorce but I stayed steady and forged my way. By January 2019 I was content that my MR was over and that I would be D. March she filed for D. May 17th it was done. Moved out June 1st.
It hurt but it was necessary for my emotional wellbeing and sanity to just forget about the woman I once loved because the person she is now is not that person and will never be again.
You got this. Start planning activities for yourself. Make sure that all of your spare time is used up focusing on yourself. Focus on yiur health, pick up a new hobby or start a new one. Get out and into the world. You deserve better. Once you find yourself and the less you allow her to keep you on the hook, the better you will feel.
Its imperative that you detach yourself. You will never move forward if you dont. She will feed you just enough crumbs to keep you hooked as long as you are gobbling them up. She is manipulating you severely. Put a stop to it.
I am in desperate need of some advice on how I do that when I am still madly in love and want to spend time together. I wait by my phone, always reply pretty quickly (although I'm working on that), I never say no to plans, etc.
Look here for ideas fore personal growth, check out the counter intuitive ways to attract:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094What works is counter intuitive.
Oh and please stop being so available. Don't accept all these offers to hang out.
How would you recommend beginning the detachment? Should I tell my ww that I am going to take some time for myself and that I won't be responding? I'm sorry - I probably seem so weak and unable, I just don't know how to go about it when we still talk all day, hang out, and it seems like she is working on figuring herself out. I have been taking the "be a good friend" approach and giving her space. I am scared of messing something up by bringing up the R if I were to explain that I am going to take a step back. Do I just start to pull away and become less available to leave her wondering?
Speak with Actions not words.
I agree with ST and Ovr, you're letting her cake-eat and now you are stuck in the friendzone. You are Plan B. She's not coming back as long as that keeps up. I understand it's difficult not to let her continue the cake-eating because it's a way for you to have some time with her, but is it really fulfilling for you or does it just keep hurting you worse? I think your best path forward would be to tell her you can't continue the friendship, so if she's not willing to commit to work on the M then you are done with her and you need time and space to heal and recover. Paradoxically the time away from you might make her start missing you and realize what she's losing.
I definitely want to end the cake eating! She has even admitted to being able to have her cake and eat it. I have been following Sandi's Rules and really backing away for the past month. The more I lay back and do my own thing, the more she tries to connect. I am definitely worried about being friendzoned, but I also know that the R between her and the OW can't and won't last forever. Is it bad that I'm feeling a bit stubborn in not wanting to move on and in trying to be patient to let this thing run its course? Also - do I assume they are still a couple? They talk all day everyday and hang out about once or twice a week. WW says she loves her but that nothing physical is happening - I'm sure you all will tell me not to believe a word of it! HAHA!
Dont be ashamed of your feelings. Your love for her is valid. However, you are making decisions based on your emotions when you should be making decisions based on facts. Do her actions show that she is dedicated to you and not in an R with OW? Seems not. Therefore, act accordingly. Protect yourself emotionally. Drop the rope. Detach.
You would know and be certain your WW is dedicated to you and ended the R with OW because she would be chasing you and showing with her actions that there is no OW and that she wants to rebuild trust.
You know shes not telling the truth because you are still confused, hurt and on an emotional rollercoaster. Do you feel like that in a loyal committed relationship? No.
How would you recommend beginning the detachment? Should I tell my ww that I am going to take some time for myself and that I won't be responding? I'm sorry - I probably seem so weak and unable, I just don't know how to go about it when we still talk all day, hang out, and it seems like she is working on figuring herself out. I have been taking the "be a good friend" approach and giving her space. I am scared of messing something up by bringing up the R if I were to explain that I am going to take a step back. Do I just start to pull away and become less available to leave her wondering?
Read the detachment thread a lot!
And don't worry about being weak. We all start there and work to get better!!!!
Also - do I assume they are still a couple?
How are they a couple? How could that be possible? A married person cannot have multiple partners in any moral sense (no offense to Mormons). It's abhorent to let people convince you that someone who is married can be with someone else. I know society like to push this kind of crap down people's throats but if you want to be able to BD and instantly see other people well then you shouldn't get married. Rant over.
How would you recommend beginning the detachment?
Get busy doing things that you like to do or need to do. Focus your energy on becoming happy without a significant other. Keep your thoughts focused on you and your behavior. Any time you catch yourself thinking of her, tell yourself "STOP". Refocus and go back to doing things for you.
Should I tell my ww that I am going to take some time for myself and that I won't be responding?[quote]
Actions, not words. Let phone calls go to voice mail. Do not immediately respond to texts. Vague answers.
Her:"Hi, bla bla bla bla.."
You :Crickets (IE don't respond)
Her:"You OK? Bla bla bla"
You: Crickets
Her:"I am worried about you..bla bla bla"
You:Crickets.
You an hour later :"Sorry, was busy. I am OK"
Her"Bla bla bla"
You crickets.
Her"Bla bla bla"
You crickets.
Her"Bla bla bla"
You crickets.
You can post the convos her for feedback if needed...
I just don't know how to go about it when we still talk all day, hang out
Make other plans. Stop hanging out with her. Do not tell her what you are doing or planning.
Do I just start to pull away and become less available to leave her wondering?
YES.
SoTorn - SoTRUE! I know one of my emotional triggers is falling for the smooth talk. She started a new job this week and last night asked for the dates for our yearly vacation next summer so that she could go ahead and ask off for them. I didn't even realize it until today because it all felt so natural and normal for us. I am trying to get into the mindset of being happy on my own and enjoy the little things. Definitely going to save your thoughts on actions vs words and keep reminding myself that nothing is real until she is dedicated. I have to protect myself and consider myself single for now. I like what someone wrote on another forum about not "waiting" but rather "standing".
Ovr - your rant made me giggle! And I agree! lol
So tonight I managed to stay detached. WW came home to pick up one of our dogs. I did receive her hug, however, I picked up my purse and proceeded to walk her out of the house. She asked what I was doing with my purse and I said I had some errands to run. She left, I left, and I haven't touched base all night. Just trying to not think about where she is and what she is up to. I do think it messed with her a bit bc she called to tell me to be careful and that she loves me. I didn't really have a ton of errands to run and just went to the local store to get some waters and coffee creamer haha! I was home in about 15 mins but she didn't need to know that!
I picked up my purse and proceeded to walk her out of the house. She asked what I was doing with my purse and I said I had some errands to run. She left, I left, and I haven't touched base all night. Just trying to not think about where she is and what she is up to. I do think it messed with her a bit bc she called to tell me to be careful and that she loves me. I didn't really have a ton of errands to run and just went to the local store to get some waters and coffee creamer haha! I was home in about 15 mins but she didn't need to know that!
Perfect!
During my detachment phase, one of my 180's was to always look nice. I would get cleaned up at home, put on nice clothes, then head to the gym. I would work out, then shower, and get back into my stylish clothes, and head home.
R2C,
I have been in "hermit" mode a lot lately and have passed on opportunities to GAL. I'm really trying each day to focus myself on saying yes to invites from friends and find things to do instead of lazing around the house after work every night. It's crazy how hard it can be to get motivated to do even the small things. Good for you looking great to and from the gym! I REALLY need to join and start going most week nights. I hate working out but I think it would make me feel better about my body.
R2C,
I have been in "hermit" mode a lot lately and have passed on opportunities to GAL. I'm really trying each day to focus myself on saying yes to invites from friends and find things to do instead of lazing around the house after work every night. It's crazy how hard it can be to get motivated to do even the small things. Good for you looking great to and from the gym! I REALLY need to join and start going most week nights. I hate working out but I think it would make me feel better about my body.
The more you force yourself to get out and GAL, the easier it will become. But at first, it does feel like forcing it.
Not sure this will be helpful to you, but what helps me get back into working out is having a set workout program to follow. Then it is very clear what I am doing each day, almost like a prescription. It eliminates the extra hurdle of having to think about what to do each time I walk into the gym. I always hate the first few workouts, feeling sore and worn out, but eventually progress kicks in and I feel energized from working out. Just takes a little while.
Question of The Day!
How should one respond to WW about subjects revolving around AP?
WW says they are planning on ________ (having dinner, going to a movie, etc) with the AP?
Act casual and say "ok, have a great time"? Ignore? Walk away?
WW occasionally brings up facts, events, random things about her AP and I never really know how to respond. I try to stay calm and collected. The AP is a childhood cancer survivor and is currently (all of a sudden) going through a suspicious mole removal and scare. I sincerely hope that everything is good and she has nothing to worry about, but I also don't know how to respond when WW brings up trivial things.
dont be around her in the first place to even have those conversations. If she is planning on being home then dont be there.
Your WW is literally acting like you are her best friend to have conversations about her AP with. You are not that person. You can say that to her. I told my exww that I was not her friend.
You can still tell her how you feel when something bothers you. As long as its not pursuit, mean or negative. Just facts.
WW: blah bla blah poor AP
You: I am not comfortable talking about AP
You need to set some boundaries for yourself. Go read the boundary thread. Just remember boundaries are for you.
I've told her that as well. Months ago, I basically said "I don't want this other person in my life. You are an adult and I cannot make you cut contact but I will not be a part of your life as long as she is in it because that puts her directly involved in my life as well and it's unhealthy for my emotional well being." The problem with that boundary though is that I am too weak to walk away completely. SoTorn thanks for so much input. I read about your sitch earlier on another forum and it really seems like you have a super strong sense of character! I am making some progress detaching and am at least feeling a little more emotionally stable, although I am worried it's just part of another cycle. My whole situation feels so stupid and really makes me want to smack her in the face with a shovel and say "wake up dummy! you obviously still love me!" but I know that I can't and that nothing I do will change any decisions she is making. I'm really finding strength from reading others experiences and all the support on DB.
want to smack her in the face with a shovel and say "wake up dummy! you obviously still love me!"
The best way to do this is dropping the rope. If you suddenly got a whole new group of friends, or even one friend, and you were no longer around, I bet your W would freak. Then, if she had any reason to suspect you might be seeing someone else (which she will find something I assure you), she would almost forget all about OW because she is so worried about this new life of yours. You are right that your W is still obviously attached to you and is just blatantly cake eating. I was in a very similar situation last year when my W had an A, and as soon as I decided to have as little to do with her as possible and GAL like crazy, within weeks she had ended the A and broken down about she didn't know how to live without me and was afraid she would regret everything for the rest of her life, etc. I promise you, given your situation and your W's feelings, detaching, 180s, and GALing will be VERY effective. You are pretty far from where you need to be and I know exactly how hard it is to cut off all the friend stuff. But do it and you will be so glad you did.
You have to be capable of sticking to the boundary . Don’t set a boundary that you can’t uphold . If you are still being intimate with her knowing she is with AP that is for you to decide the boundary . The boundary is for you not her . Your well being . The more you set one the more she may test it . If you want the boundary that you have no place in your life to discuss AP set it . A simple I understand you want to talk about AP but I will not . If AP is brought up stick to it . Kindly but to the point . GAL more and more and more . She may get upset at your GAL but keep pushing toward . The stronger you become the better for you .
Yeah I've definitely made the mistakes of trying to set personal boundaries and caving in on sticking to them throughout this whole process. I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing, but we have agreed not to be intimate since July. WW said we have always connected great in the bedroom (that's not an issue) and that she wants to make sure that if/when we become intimate again that her heart is in it. I agreed as I do not want to be sleeping with anyone that doesn't have their heart in it. 44 you're right. I firmly believe she would feel the loss almost immediately and this entire week has proven that. I have been GALing, been distant in our convos, and made myself somewhat unavailable and she has been temp checking quite often.
I've been trying to think of things I need to do for myself in order to 180. I guess a big part of it is being a fixer. I think the only problem we ever really had was that I am wayyy too much of a care taker and a giver. I spoiled the absolute snot out of ww prior to the affair (and even after if I'm honest). I worked hard to get a great career, pay all the bills, cook, buy anything/do anything we want to do. I just find myself really blessed because I'm so fortunate that money has not been an issue, but I also gave her way to much and it ended up making her feel like she can't provide. She has told me that one of the only things she feels like was missing was her ability to provide and take care of me. She said that she felt needed in her R with the OW and that she wants to feel that way with me. I'm trying to just lay low and let her pursue.
Hi Kristin,
You're doing great-- hang in there! I agree with Cali, boundaries are to protect YOU, not to force her to do one thing or another-- so you just really need to figure out what behaviors are so upsetting to you that you just have to say no for your own sanity, and then stick to it. On the 180s-- are you still trying to help her fix her problems? Or just validating (when appropriate)? Sounds like validating and resisting advice or comments beyond validation would be a 180 for you and also right in line with DBing.
One thing that has been really helpful for me in GALing is working out-- it has been a great release mechanism and I haven't looked and felt this good physically for more than a decade. I was out with a friend the other night and this college kid was totally hitting on me which my friend and I both thought was pretty hilarious (I'm 44!!!) but I can't say it didn't feed my ego a little. Feeling more confident and sexy can be a really big boost and help with all the rest of the DBing.
I too have been the planner , spoiler and the fixer . It seems almost against our nature to do the opposite for me at least . Start with just a few 180s. Start taking up some of those offers to GAL . Unhermit yourself and stop being so available . It’s hard . I’ve driven away sobbing at times but as hard as it was I just kept telling myself I can do this . I am also a newbie here so I have some mixed feelings on certain things the vets are way better at answering . I have made very clear to my H That I will not date while married . What he chooses he does but I do not have to change my values . At one point he almost pushed me to date . I think to make him feel less guilt saying it. Nope not going to happen . Cake eating is hard to stop . I look at some of it as if it’s having a positive effect then some of it I allow . Some of it I over the last few weeks didn’t even lay a boundary on I just didn’t respond to it and made it no longer available . Does allowing him in the home to enjoy family time seem to show progress on my sitch - yes . H has increased time here and shows he is happy here , comfortable, make attempts to spend more family time and connect the kids . After a year of her cake eating is there a positive effect or no ? GAL and stop being so available . I occasionally pick up the phone when I GAL there’s kids involved in my end but if it’s not kid related just a quick friendly I’m out right now I’ll talk to you later .
So I just got a txt message from ww letting me know that AP got a confirmed diagnosis of melanoma skin cancer. I have no clue how to handle this. Thoughts and feelings?
Kristin, sorry, that's such an awkward situation! I have no affair experience, so this is just a layman's two cents--maybe express sympathy once, but if it continues, tell her for your own sanity you can't comfort them about an AP. That seems to straddle the boundary humanity/compassion and reasonableness.
Question of The Day!
How should one respond to WW about subjects revolving around AP?
WW says they are planning on ________ (having dinner, going to a movie, etc) with the AP?
Act casual and say "ok, have a great time"? Ignore? Walk away?
WW occasionally brings up facts, events, random things about her AP and I never really know how to respond. I try to stay calm and collected. The AP is a childhood cancer survivor and is currently (all of a sudden) going through a suspicious mole removal and scare. I sincerely hope that everything is good and she has nothing to worry about, but I also don't know how to respond when WW brings up trivial things.
You and your WW are WAY too casual about what she is doing. It's time to set the record straight. Use my previous rant if you want.
As for the OW getting sick, well there's thousands of LBS's that would simply say good riddance. This is a person who you don't like and you don't want or need to know a thing about them.
Update Journal:
This weekend was full of highs and lows. Just when you think momentum is shifting for your WS and making them want to R, something always jerks them right back into the fog. WW had AP over to her house to talk after receiving some horrible news about melanoma (the AP). Her father passed away due to the same type of cancer and she was understandably scared. WW told me so as not to hide their meeting and immediately felt distant and detached from any progress we had made.
We were in a wedding this weekend for another couple. WW was the "best matron" and I was a bridesmade. I had been dreading this wedding, because, let's be real - weddings are hard to stomach when you're going through all of this. I tried to focus on doing my own thing with all of the girls in the bridal party and not hang around ww. It still feels so weird because it seems like the whole room can tell something is "off" between us. She doesn't wear her wedding ring anymore and almost seems to avoid any contact with me whatsoever. It hurts but you all have been there and know the feeling.
This week I'm going to try and GAL as much as possible. The AP doesn't get her staging for cancer until the end of the month so I know without a shadow of a doubt that she who shall not be named will continue to be in the picture. UGHHHH why?! I HAVE to start moving on with my life.
Anywho - hope you all had a great weekend.
Your WW isnt going to change in any short period of time. You shouldnt expect that there is any chance of R until you have seen consistent actions from WW over a very long period of time. These back and forths mean nothing. She could tell you today that she wants you and only you and make all the promises in the world. It means nothing. Talk is cheap. Dont feed the beast by jumping at every crumb they toss out.
Yeah I know SoTorn. I just keep hoping for an end to this nightmare.. 1 year and still in a serious heartache. She just called after finishing up at work and I told her a package came for her in the mail if she wanted to come pick it up. She said probably not tonight and that she's taking AP some soup. I said "Have a good night" and hung up. I don't plan on contacting her anymore today and am planning on GAL with some friends tonight.
. I just keep hoping for an end to this nightmare.
Until you emotionally detach, you will keep getting hurt.
You have all the power to end the nightmare right now.
You had the choice to not answer the phone.
Do you know this story:
US: "The stove is hot. If you touch the stove, you will get burned."
You: "Maybe it cooled down, I will touch it to see."
US: "Please don't touch the stove!!! It is still hot!"
Let the calls go to voicemail . Did she have a purpose to the call ? If not get busy and get off phone quickly but nicely .
You Can stop this nightmare .
Thanks Cali and R2C.
I know I have the power to stop it. I am really trying to just focus on GAL and find things that I enjoy - just for me. I will say it's getting easier not to initiate contact. That is my starting point. One step at a time. I was engaged to someone else 10 years ago that ended up leaving me for an AP and it was easy to walk away. I think it was easier because our relationship was toxic from the beginning. It makes it so much harder when you marry someone and truly believe that they are a good person that had always and would always be faithful and attentive. One step forward with my life each day.
It is hard, but through these times of pain and hardship we actually have the opportunity for immense personal growth! You are stronger than you feel right now, you just haven't realized it yet!!!!
Hey Kristin - thanks for popping in on my thread. So sorry you are having to deal with this, but you are in a good place with very good people that have a lot of knowledge to pass on.
Keep the focus on yourself, as others have said. Your goal is to detach as much as possible from your W. It can get confusing for DB newbies - how to detach, what to show to W when an interaction occurs, etc. The thread on detachment is very helpful.
I would suggest you view it this way - you are detaching lovingly. You are allowing W to do what she believes will make her happy. You are allowing her to be free, to be an individual again.
However, with this allowance comes the importance of setting boundaries for yourself. This is crucial. Especially when it comes to OW. In WWs mind there is no R. So, you don't talk about OW. You don't spend time together. You respond in a way befitting a business transaction or cordial meeting. You don't initiate conversations. You are busy getting a life for youself.
It's tricky at first but you will get the hang of it. There's a great "Be the Lighthouse" story here somewhere that I would recommend reading (if one of the other vets has the link immediately available?). Also - read all of the resources in MLC - they have helped me enormously.
Keep the focus on you, and work on strengthening your emotional well being. I've read a lot of self help books, I recommend you do the same. Insight Timer app helps a lot with the anxiety, also.
Stay strong, Kristin, and keep yourself grounded. You will get through this
Thanks IW. I am making the "be the lighthouse" my mantra. Keeping the road nice and smooth so if she ever decides to drive home I'm prepared. I've been working on just validating a lot and not trying (as much) to fix everything. I have stopped checking the phone bill this week to see if they are still in contact which is a HUGE step for me. It's just too painful to see the hundreds of texts and phone calls every day. I don't initiate contact but will respond upbeat and happy whenever she reaches out which is quite often. I know I've said this before, but I'm terrified she is trying to "friend-zone" me so that she can have her cake and not lose what we have as well.
She called me last night after getting home from going out with some friends. She was a bit drunk and said "baby, please come over I don't feel so good". (We still use pet names and say ILY but I don't initiate those anymore). I picked up some Gatorade and taco bell cause I figured she needed some hydration and food haha! I stayed the night and she held me all night. We aren't intimate but we still spend a couple nights a week together.
This afternoon she sent me a quote from a meme she saw on Instagram.
"I am closer to you now than I was before. The distance between us has not disrupted how deeply I feel for you. I guess I am at a point where having you physically close to me is not my greatest desire but to watch you smile and grow is. I know that we can make each other smile without saying a word but you have your own path to follow and I am sure someday, our paths will meet and we will be together chasing our dream."
She sent the picture with "I thought about you when I read this in a sense"
WTH does this mean?! I just validated and told her "I can see how you might feel that way"
Oh and last night she kept repeating how terrible of a person she is and how I deserve so much more. Saying that she could never be mad at me, loves me, etc.. Oh these emotional ups and downs. I'm at least starting to feel more detached around them. The validating and telling myself believe actions not words has helped tremendously.
Don't believe anything she says and only half of what she does. None of it adds up. Focus on you! Growth, healing, fun!
My W gave me the exact same lines...I've been a horrible monster, you deserve so much more... Whether or not it is sincere, it does not matter. It is not enough. As Sandi tells me, it is proven they know what they are doing and are wrong, but continue to do it anyway. It [censored]. But it sounds like you are doing all the right things, except I would say you are still way too available to her. She can call you drunk and you run right over. You have to get respect back and make it clear you are not going to tolerate the affair. Right now, it's almost like you're condoning it. Believe me, I get it, I just don't think your sitch is going to change until you do this 180.
44,
How do you start to take back respect? It feels completely counter intuitive to just start ignoring her. Maybe it should feel counter intuitive, but I want to stay stable and "be the lighthouse". In our situation ignoring seems like it may come off as rude or cruel. We haven't had any R talks in over a month and so I haven't brought up the affair. This week I finally stopped snooping and checking our phone record so I truthfully don't know if they are talking. Bringing up the AP only makes her angry and pushes her away so I have been avoiding anything around the subject and trying to ignore its existence. I guess I'm trying to figure out how to 180.
Am I reading too much into the poem/writing she sent about how "but I have to take my own path and she can see us together one day in the future chasing the same dreams"? I'm just like WTH..
Ovr, I shot you a comment on your thread and just finished reading all of it. Thanks for the comments!
How do you start to take back respect?
Setting boundaries. Boundaries are there to protect you.
Boundaries teach people how to treat you.
The meme she sent I would not have wrote back or acknowledged it . Yes you are reading into it . One minute she’s calling you to come over next minute she’s telling you that you both need separate paths . Believe none of it .
You need to figure out your 180. Mine was always being available . So I stopped . One night H was texting me back and forth . Nothing bad cute stuff . I don’t know why it hit me at that moment but I said to myself this is ridiculous. You leave , say you don’t want to be married then text me all cutesy. At that minute I wrote back I have to get sleep I have a big plans for the morning and don’t want to be tired . Was a total reversal for me . I always would pick up phone ,answer texts , drop everything . Boy did it get thrown up a few times passive aggressively. I ignored it . See he chose not to be here . I did not have to be there every second . Your W chose to have an affair . She is still involved with AP. She chose not to live in your home . Your 180 most likely will throw your W into a bit of anger just ignore it . She will be angry you aren’t there like she thought but stay your course . You are strong and confident !Do not bring her Taco Bell . But you have to 180 because you are just sitting waiting for her to change her mind. She has nothing to change her mind about your still there whenever she wants .
Good Monday everyone! So deep breath for the weekend update. It's been eventful.
Friday night I went to GAL with a couple of friends. Went to a bonfire because it's finally starting to feel like fall. Everyone started heading home and it was just my friend and I left sitting around the fire and chatting. She is like a second mom to my ww, but we have been very close for several years. I got a huge BD (although I should be surprised at this point) that my ww brought her AP up for a bonfire and to meet everyone last week. She said she just couldn't hold it in and felt like I should know. Said that while they weren't physical, it was pretty obvious to everyone that they were together. I held my composure and just told her that I know ww is making some poor decisions lately and that I am just trying to do my own thing, get a life, and detach myself unless things change. I teared up once or twice, but all in all kept it together ok.
Got home around 10 and went to bed. I'm sleeping as well as I can these days and the next thing I know ww crawled into bed and gave me a back rub. I woke up and asked what she was doing here (at my house). She said she was wasted and took an uber. Wow, ok. So I told her to drink some water and get some sleep and went back to bed.
Saturday morning was pretty great, almost felt normal. We got up, she made me coffee, played some video games and recovered. Saturday night we had plans to watch our favorite football team GO VOLS. I took stuff to make my famous beef stew over to her house and we had a couple of friends over. The entire game she spent more time with her nose in her cell phone every 2 seconds than watching the game or socializing. This has become a common theme when she is with me. It hurts, but I have at least stopped trying to snoop. I know who she's talking to - snooping does nothing but confirm the hurt and further perpetuate my own masochistic nightmare. As soon as the game was over, I said I was leaving and she acted a bit like a jerk as if she were annoyed with my presence. 180 for me - I didn't try to make her happy by acknowledging and trying to fix her blatant rudeness. I simply got my keys and walked out.
Sunday morning she once again showed up at my house before I was even out of bed. Made me coffee and said she wanted to apologize for being such a turd the night before. I thanked her for the coffee. She stayed for maybe 30 minutes and left to go GAL herself. I laid in my own self pity for a couple of hours and tried to muster the energy to GAL. I ended up having a pretty nice day playing some video games and hanging out with my nephew. He's 6, hysterical, and my best friend.
Hope everyone here had a good weekend. I can't say enough that just being able to journal my feelings and get some feedback is helping my own sanity. I know there will be plenty of 2*4s as I am no where near perfect in this journey, but I'm trying my very best and learning a lot along the way. Cheers!
"I am closer to you now than I was before. The distance between us has not disrupted how deeply I feel for you. I guess I am at a point where having you physically close to me is not my greatest desire but to watch you smile and grow is. I know that we can make each other smile without saying a word but you have your own path to follow and I am sure someday, our paths will meet and we will be together chasing our dream."
Magic Decoder: She enjoys and wants to keep her relationship with you as-is, she's busy with OW just now, but someday in the future she will return (maybe when OW gets boring, too ill, passes on, etc.) Your partner is good with words, and I can see how that could be gratifying and hard to leave.
But you have to 180 because you are just sitting waiting for her to change her mind. She has nothing to change her mind about your still there whenever she wants .
I think Caligirl is right! If she enjoys the perks she gets from both of you--she says she does--why should she drop either of you? You have to decide if you can accept being one of her lovers OR require a monogamous relationship. If you stop accepting her behavior, you have a chance of winning her back or moving on. As-is it seems you are hoping for the day she and OW1 fizzle out AND she doesn't seek an OW2 or OW3 to fill the void left behind from enjoying having multiple partners at the same time.
Hi Kristin,
First, I just wanted to say that this all s**ks so badly. Your WW is treating you abysmally and you don't deserve it at all. We are in these awful situations and it is totally unfair-- it is OK to be angry. You have a whole community of people here for you, plus sounds like some good friends and family (and kids are always fun to hang out with and help you forget about the BS going on!) Stick with that and let yourself breathe and let go when you're with people who love you.
Setting boundaries doesn't mean you don't love her, but her behavior is just unacceptable. Setting boundaries and sticking to them is an act of LOVE-- love for yourself because you don't deserve to be treated this way and love for her, because the only possible way out of this terrible sitch is if she decides to change her behavior. And like Caligirl and CW are saying-- there is no reason for her to do that right now.
Think of it like every time you let her come over to your house in the middle of the night, go to her place while she texts the AP, respond when she is sick and needs you-- you're implicitly telling her that you're OK with the situation as it is, and I don't think you are. Your actions are helping support the status quo-- are you OK with that? Maybe thinking of it like that can help you to do the incredibly hard and counter-intuitive work of 180s, setting (and sticking) to boundaries, and detaching-- because you don't want to be complicit in what is going on right now.
You got this!!
Thanks May. Ok so I am getting to the point, much thanks to the strength from this community, of wanting to lay out some boundaries. Everyone here has been so great. You guys definitely tossed some much needed 2*4s my way.
Would ya'll throw out some example boundaries for me to get me started?! (insert nervous smiley face
) I really want to make certain that:
A) I am doing more by actions and not words
B) I am not setting a boundary that I will not stick to
C) I am leaving the "door open" so to speak bc I really DO want to save our M.
The person that is cake-eating to her heart's content is not the same person I married. I know many of us feel like this. I know that we can never have the R we previously had, but I also know that we were really great together for many years. I want to be true to following my heart and true to my commitment because I am sure at some point, she is going to think - wow, what have I done and what kind of human have I been. The story of the prodigal son rings true to her mindset and I was raised to show grace even when the person may not deserve it. Thanks for the input and help!
KG - Examples (keep in mind, I'm not saying these are the specific boundaries you should set, that is up to you):
1. "If you are communicating with AP while we are together, I will leave."
- She starts texting AP.
- Boundary: You leave.
2. "I will no longer tolerate you coming to my house drunk in the middle of the night with no warning. Next time this happens I will ask you to leave."
- She comes over drunk in the middle of the night.
- Boundary: You ask her to leave.
Boundaries involve consequences. Many of us fall into the trap of saying "I won't take you doing XYZ anymore" and then when XYZ happens, we do nothing (which shows there was actually no boundary).
K,
someone that closer to your W is probably not someone you want to confide in, IMO. It's likely that if you're speaking with "her friends" that those words will make their way to your W.
I woke up and asked what she was doing here (at my house).
Good! What stopped you from taking action to support this sentiment? I was in a similar situation. It's very tough. Undoubtedly she is trying to share a bed with 2 people. I struggled immensely with how to deal with this, and I know it's hard. Eventually I found the courage to say "You just were in someone else's bed last night and now you're in bed with me? Gross". Just remember that the only time we can be brave is when we are scared. But like I told you, you are so much better than how you feel at the moment!
Saturday morning was pretty great, almost felt normal. We got up, she made me coffee, played some video games and recovered. Saturday night we had plans to watch our favorite football team GO VOLS.
This is confusing, and I want to clarify if you can help me. She lives with OW, right? But sometimes she comes and stays the night and plays happy wife with you, right? Coffee, friends, socializing, alone time, bedroom time?
The fact that she still wants you in a capacity is good for your sitch. But if she's playing both sides of the fence, well does that hurt you? Could you think of a boundary that would protect that? I think the boundary will be difficult and require you to be brave.
UC, thanks! I'm making a list and trying to really commit BEFORE giving any boundaries bc I have made mistakes over the last year of not enforcing a stated boundary.
Just to clarify for all:
She does not live with her AP. She is renting a house and lives alone, although I suspect AP is over quite frequently and I also suspect that she stays with AP some. I don't have proof, just a gut feeling.
Ovr,
I agree - I have been very careful of talking with her "friends" in any capacity because I know it will get back to her. I tried to be as vague as possible and just state that I am focused on myself and I hope she figures out what she wants/needs.
And yes, it is the playing both sides of the fence that is hurtful. In my sitch, it feels like she wants for US to have a future but she is going on this "journey" to find herself.
I know not to believe anything she says. She tells me she and AP have not had any type of physical R since March. She tells me they are in love but know that nothing can come of it. She is emotionally supporting AP through her cancer diagnosis.
Her Actions: She plays "wife" on an whim. One day here, making plans, saying "I think xyz will be good for our future", etc. The next day she is almost completely radio silent.
My Actions: Stopped snooping (HOORAY). Trying to learn to listen and let her talk through things. I don't initiate any conversations. I don't call her first, I don't initiate texting convos, I don't ask about plans.
UC, thanks! I'm making a list and trying to really commit BEFORE giving any boundaries bc I have made mistakes over the last year of not enforcing a stated boundary.
VERY wise, Kristin. As you say, better to set more modest enforced boundaries than more significant unenforced ones. I hope they help you stay sane and her come to her senses.
Kristin, also consider enforceability. E.g., "No texting AP around me" could be a good boundary, but you may find it difficult to enforce without seeing her screen. It may be easier to enforce "No excessive phone usage" or "No 30min+ bathroom breaks". I was proud a week ago when my partner was stuck in her own drama and I said, "My son and I are going out for some fun. Want to come, or need to take care of that?" She left. The boundary was not harsh nor mean, it was simply sanity and life preserving.
CWarrior,
In my opinion, ultimately K probably shouldn't be telling anyone how to use their phone. It is controlling and unattractive. I think a better way of stating it would be to simply leave the room or house when phone use is excessive.
My Actions: Stopped snooping (HOORAY). Trying to learn to listen and let her talk through things. I don't initiate any conversations. I don't call her first, I don't initiate texting convos, I don't ask about plans.
K,
this is a great start.
I want you to think about what actions you can take to prevent further pain brought on by your W. Or in other words, what is she doing that hurts you the most right now?
Kristin, she's got to learn to miss you. That will never happen as long as she knows she can just drop by whenever she wants. I would tell her to respect your privacy and no longer show up unannounced. Then I would change the locks.
Kristin, I agree with AS on the lock changing. It doesn't mean you can't let her in if she drops by (if you so choose) but it means she can't crawl into bed with you in the middle of the night and gives you more control over the situation. Do you have a key to her place? If not, then it feels pretty fair for you to have privacy in your own home.
Also, a thought on the texting-- agree with ovr that controlling someone's text messaging especially not knowing what they're up to on their phone is complicated and doesn't look good. (I went through this phase where I was vvv curious what my H was doing on his phone and would hover and kind of try to peek surreptitiously, then always turned out he was texting his brother, or doing the crossword puzzle, etc. I finally decided to stop caring because there was nothing I could do about it anyway and it just made me feel crazy (plus made me look needy and suspicious). Anyway, I don't think you always need to verbally state all your boundaries, and the texting is one. She starts ignoring you and focusing on her phone? Don't reinforce that behavior by sticking around, or trying to talk to her and win her attention-- just leave. She puts the phone down and focuses on you? Maybe I'd reinforce that behavior?
I would tell her to respect your privacy and no longer show up unannounced. Then I would change the locks.
This is most likely counter-intuitive on what you feel like doing. The more counter-intuitive it feels, the more likely it is you best action.
She's got to learn to miss you.
This is also counter-intuitive. Let her miss you.
'We're meant to lose the people we love. How else would we know how important they are to us.' - Mrs. Maple (The Curious Case of Benjamin Button)
CWarrior,
In my opinion, ultimately K probably shouldn't be telling anyone how to use their phone.
Hi overrn, agreed, she shouldn't tell her partner what to do. She CAN set boundaries on what she accepts. Months ago, I felt disrespected when my partner went into "phone mode" for 15min on a date.
I think a better way of stating it would be to simply leave the room or house when phone use is excessive.
The first time I tried that, she didn't know why I left, where I went, or when I'd return. LOL! I've made some common-sense refinements you probably do or would do too: (1) I tolerate it for a bit, (2) I call attention to it ("Something up?"), then (3) I let them know I'm moving on while they deal with their important "phone" business, optionally inviting them to move on too. I find this a good model for any "very distracted" behavior while I've set aside 1:1 time for someone. It respects, too, what they're doing may be important.
I agree with a few of the others with the phone . If you have set time aside with her and she is distracted or messaging AP just walk away . I agree with not putting a time frame on someone’s phone use.
I think I posted on someone’s sitch about a boundary I did with H. He has a bad habit of raising his voice . Always escalated between us . He did this few weeks ago . I stated if you raise your voice again I will hang up . He raised his voice . So I hung up . He then called a ton back . I didn’t answer . He sent nasty messages . I responded the same thing . You tell- I hang up . You send me nasty messages - I won’t respond . Last time it’s happened . See the boundary was mainly for me . I know how we escalate fights so I chose to eliminate it . It’s not even an option.
If you allow her to come in after drinking and stay . You have relayed that it’s ok . Simple and to the point . You come over drunk -I will not open the door .
Once you start becoming more confident with boundaries you will get better at them . She will argue or try to over them . Ignore it . H tried to say he didn’t use any name calling or bad language I should not have hung up . I didn’t budge on my stance you raise your voice - I hang up .
Good job on not texting first or calling . Try getting off phone first and being busy. I know how hard it is .
OK.. apologies for long rant coming. I need to vent!
SO last night she asked for me to come over and look over some insurance options with her new job. She wanted to build a fire and roast some hot dogs. I agreed as it was a nice night and went. She had another friend there from work and we all spent most of the evening sitting around the fire chatting and having a beer. I went inside to use the restroom and found confirmation of PA still occurring. INSTApissed. Deep breaths, calm down, don't explode on her cheating butt.
Managed to get calmed down and return to the hang out. I kept pretty quiet the rest of the evening and was trying to keep my emotions in check. Friend left and it was just her and I. She initiated an R talk which hasn't happened in a couple of months. She wanted to know what was bothering me and could tell something was off. I was just trying to listen and validate and not bring up the PA or the AP.
She kept pushing to find out how I am feeling and I caved. I told her that I don't want to, nor will I, be a third party in this love triangle. I told her that I knew they were still sleeping together. She tried to deny, deny, deny. I told her about the red handed proof and she confirmed the PA. I tried to remain calm and unaffected. I cried quite a bit and she just kept hugging me and saying she doesn't want to lose me or everything we have worked so hard to build together. She feels as though her friends and family will never accept AP because "you're amazing and my whole family loves you so much". I told her that I want her to be happy in life, even if that is not with me. She hugged me again and I told her I just want space from her right now.
I left.
I'm in pieces today and trying to hold it all in at work. I already feel like someone ripped out my heart all over again. How is it that it has been a year of H*LL and I still hurt over her? Trying to center my thoughts and form a mental game plan for myself and self care.
Sorry, K...2x4 incoming...((hugs))
How is it that it has been a year of H*LL and I still hurt over her?
I think you already must know the answer to this deep down. YOU are allowing yourself to continue being in hell indefinitely, and feel like your heart is being ripped out over and over again. Not only is that doing nothing to help your relationship at all, but it is killing YOU.
When you see her all the time, talk to her all the time, go to her house for your social hours...you will NEVER stop feeling the hurt over her. Finding confirmation of the PA? Emotionally devastating on a night you could have been spending time with some people who TRULY care about you, investing in yourself and one of YOUR dreams, the possibilities are endless, but instead you were doing the most self-damaging thing possible.
I'm sure you ARE amazing, and your W knows it. And she also thinks she can have it right alongside with AP. It simply can't go on. You are devaluing your own worth, which we just confirmed is very high, in both her eyes and yours. You cannot have heartfelt talks with her. She denied, denied, denied the PA even when directly confronted. Not until she had nowhere else to run, due to your proof, did she change her tune. This should be very telling for you. Your conversations are going nowhere and only take place to soothe your W and assure her that everything is still going according to her selfish, out of control plan.
You have told her you want space. STICK TO IT. You have the "ammo" now of just confirming the PA to justify why you want nothing to do with her. Not that you needed it, but I have been in your shoes and not known how to do a 180 out of nowhere when I have been friendly and suddenly try to close the door. You feel like you need an excuse. Well now you have one. Stay strong.
I told her I just want space from her right now. I left.
Kristin, this is the perfect no-contact boundary. You caught her lying red-handed about a major issue. She admitted you are high value. She admitted she doesn't want to lose you.
I believe holding this line is by far your best chance.
Change the locks before she takes the choice away from you. When you think of caving in--and you will whether it's tonight when you crawl into bed or when she sends you a poem or tomorrow when you wake up--pour your heart out here or to any other friend you have who will listen and sleep on it a few days.
Emotionally devastating on a night you could have been spending time with some people who TRULY care about you, investing in yourself and one of YOUR dreams, the possibilities are endless, but instead you were doing the most self-damaging thing possible.
Read this again and again and again. Stop touching the oven. Separation is agony but you will heal with time. You won't heal and will remain in this painful place as long as you keep touching the oven. When she has to deal with the pain of your loss, that's when your best shot will come. <3 and hugs.
Deep breaths, calm down, don't explode on her cheating butt.
I think an explosion would have been warranted, but good on you for remaining calm. You have every right to be mad. Moving forward, you are going to have to remember to not believe anything she says, because you have no trust.
I told her that I don't want to, nor will I, be a third party in this love triangle.
Now comes the hard part, can you walk this walk?
I'm in pieces today and trying to hold it all in at work. I already feel like someone ripped out my heart all over again. How is it that it has been a year of H*LL and I still hurt over her? Trying to center my thoughts and form a mental game plan for myself and self care.
You are still letting her hurt you, I think you do this because you have hope and you love her and I totally get that. I've been right where you are. It took me close to a year and 8 or 9 times of running back to OM before I finally said enough and went NC for long enough for it to set in.
You're right to center your thoughts and make a game plan going forward. In the interim, I would do what you said and take your space, take your time. Spend some of it on healing, some on growth, some on work, some on fun. Just do K for a while. You're a strong, smart, caring person and that is something to be proud of.
I told her I just want space from her right now. I left.
I believe holding this line is by far your best chance.
When she has to deal with the pain of your loss, that's when your best shot will come.
I completely agree. Show by your actions that you want nothing to do with her while she is having a sexual relationship with someone else. Let her miss you. If you are important to her, she will come begging for you to take her back. At that point you will have grown a lot have more tools to deal with her. Believe me, I have seen this play out many times.
I strongly suggest doing this today.
I am sorry you have to go through this. We are here for you.
HUGS
Hi Kristin,
Just want to lend my voice of support to the others. I'm so sorry you are having to go through this and last night sounds awful... but:
I told her that I don't want to, nor will I, be a third party in this love triangle... I told her I just want space from her right now.
I left.
you should be so proud of yourself. You stood up for yourself, set some healthy boundaries, and left. Good for you!! You did it! Now the hard part is sticking to it but I agree with everyone else-- change the locks, stay strong. Call up friends and family now and lay out a schedule for the rest of the week to do fun things with people that love you-- lock those in. Go to the movies, go to the gym, buy yourself a good book, eat your favorite foods... treat yourself because you deserve it and stay busy.
HUGS. You got this.
Thanks so much everyone. Today has been rough to say the least. NC so far. Trying to stay calm and strong. Planning on going to a friends house for dinner. Not sure what tomorrow holds, but I'm going to try and stay positive. Thanks so much for all the hugs and encouragement.
Planning on going to a friends house for dinner.
Perfect. Stay focused on the moment. Give yourself a break from thinking about the past or the future.
Hey Kristin -
I agree with the others 100 percent.
Good for you, standing up for yourself and setting a great boundary. It may hurt a lot now, but you just showed how much you respect yourself.
Now is the time to focus on you.
Stay strong!
Good for you saying you will not be part of a love triangle. Now you have to pick yourself up and GAL . Get confident . You made a boundary that shows you are strong .
She admitted to not wanting to loose you but still continues PA. Boundary you have PA you do not have me .
Go dark for sometime. If she reaches out do not respond .
I know you are just emotionally broken but you can do this .
Keep that boundary. No more visits, talks, chats etc. Detach yourself from her and the hurt.
Good morning all! Yesterday was really difficult, but day one of NC down and successful. She did text about a work thing - news flash I manage several veterinary practices and she works part time in one. I responded politely and short. She came by my main office and dropped off some paperwork. We didn't speak, she handed it to me and I just said thank you. I went to a have dinner with one of our married couple friends and they asked how everything was going with us "working on our M". I told them I didn't want to talk about it and just wanted to enjoy their company. They never brought it back up. Homemade tomato basil soup and grilled cheese for the WIN! This morning I have had waves of anxiety, but in general I feel optimistic about the day and am in a good mood. I know there will still be many ups and downs, but I am trying to look forward to each day getting a little easier to detach.
PS. I took off my wedding ring yesterday and it's been a really weird feeling - is this ok and normal? She hasn't worn hers in months, and I just felt like I needed to physically separate that commitment from my body.
Yes it’s an odd feeling not wearing your wedding band . I still go to twist mine sometimes and it’s no there . Great job with the work drop off and not talking about your marriage . You did really good keeping it short . Simple thank you .
Great job K!! Not to be pushy... but have you thought at all about changing the locks? You've taken a big symbolic step to detach and focus on YOU by taking off your ring, and I just want to put out there that the locks are also symbolic but also protective-- taking off your ring won't stop her from coming over next time she is drunk and sad, and that could put you in a spin. Just want to send some continued support to you for taking this all a day at a time, protecting yourself, and planning to fill your days with people who love you like you did last night during this difficult space.
Wedding rings are weird... my H takes his off all the time for surfing and yoga (BTW all this talk about shooting ranges and being macho/alpha cracks me up, we are in such a different community... yoga is where I can forget my sitch) and told me that he isn't as quick to put it back on afterwards because of what is going on between us... but he does, neither of us mention it now but I am always looking to see if it is on or off and (maybe stupidly) take some measure of comfort when he is wearing it. He wore it on his trip (though might be taking it off while there for all I know). For you guys (K and CG) when did your spouses take theirs off? CG, when did you take yours off?
CG - yeah I took all my jewelry off last night before bed and went to take it off but it wasn't there. VERY weird feeling.
May - I don't want to change the locks because it (until this weekend) has never been a surprise when she has used her key. Ordinarily, she is very polite and asks if she can stop by to grab something, see our dogs, etc. I don't forsee it becoming an issue as she knows I don't want her company right now. I was very clear I wanted space. I just hope I'm strong enough to DB when she reaches out on occasion. She took hers off sometime earlier this year. Afterwards, it was and on again off again situation. I noticed she would only wear it if we would be around other people or went to a family event. Didn't wear it on a daily basis, or during her time with me. I took mine off yesterday.
That makes sense, Kristin! Maybe have a little set thing you know you'll do if she reaches out to buy yourself time and stay strong?
My husband took it off two days after he moved out . I took mine off around same time maybe few days later . Still haven’t put it back on . I did say something about it other night . He agreed easily but it’s at his sisters .
Hey Kristin, thinking about you. Stay strong. Many of us are rooting for you and your dreams!
May - that's a great idea and I've been trying to think through different things to say when she inevitably invites me to do something.
"I already have plans, but thanks"
"Unless things have somehow changed for you, I do not want to spend time together."
"AHHHH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY?!" haha
I am epic failing at DB with not responding to her texts. Mostly, she is treating me as a friend and as if nothing happened. But also confusing the heck out of me with texts about her new job and adding me as beneficiary, talking about retirement plans, giving me financial advice. I have responded, but tried to keep it short. "Ok, thanks, etc" It's making me so angry how easily she can get her hooks into me for a response. I'm reading and re-reading all of your posts and encouragement.
I was thinking about things last night and how do Sandi's rules change or alter when dealing with a WS as opposed to a WAS? Many of the rules seem drastically soft to be enforced on a S in an active affair.
I'm making plans again tonight with a friend so I'm successfully removing myself from hermit mode. That part feels good, because for the last 6 months plus I have not been motivated to do anything.
Also, I know I definitely deserve some 2*4s, so no worries about hurting my feelings. At this point I'm just working on strength and finding a focus on my own.
"I already have plans, but thanks"
"Unless things have somehow changed for you, I do not want to spend time together."
"AHHHH I DON'T KNOW WHAT TO SAY?!" haha
Since the two parts of the strategy are for you to stop touching the oven and for her to feel a sense of your loss, shorter = better. Think no response, long delays in responses, and to the point responses.
"No, thank you." is plenty!!
I am epic failing at DB with not responding to her texts.
You are SO not an epic failure! No contact is hard. You're fighting bravely for love! Every hour of no contact is an act of compassion for you and your partner, who we hope finds her way back to living authentically.
"I already have plans, but thanks"
Good response!
"Unless things have somehow changed for you, I do not want to spend time together."
Avoid this, it's a temperature check. "unless things have somehow changed for you" is really asking her "have things changed for you?" Don't ask. If and when things change for her you will be the first to know. A better response would be "given our current situation, I think it would be best not to spend time together."
I am epic failing at DB with not responding to her texts. Mostly, she is treating me as a friend and as if nothing happened. But also confusing the heck out of me with texts about her new job and adding me as beneficiary, talking about retirement plans, giving me financial advice. I have responded, but tried to keep it short. "Ok, thanks, etc" It's making me so angry how easily she can get her hooks into me for a response. I'm reading and re-reading all of your posts and encouragement.
She is most definitely engaging in cake-eating. She wants a fling, but wants the "security" of your marriage when it suits her. But just keep in mind that appeasing her in her cake-eating is NOT her path home. She's got to learn to miss you.
I was thinking about things last night and how do Sandi's rules change or alter when dealing with a WS as opposed to a WAS? Many of the rules seem drastically soft to be enforced on a S in an active affair.
Sandi talks a lot about earning respect back when dealing with a wayward. The things she is doing to you are VERY disrespectful, starting with the affair, and continuing with acting like nothing is wrong, showing up in the middle of the night uninvited and with zero notice, etc. The way you start to get respect back is by setting up boundaries and not allowing her to treat you like a doormat. You make it clear that you will not be Plan B.
I'm making plans again tonight with a friend so I'm successfully removing myself from hermit mode.
Perfect!
If she texts asking you to spend time together . Long response time back . Then respond I have plans . If she asks you what you are doing . Again wait a long time . Out with friends . Do not answer anything else . You are doing great at starting to detach and distance .
I use the when I don’t know what to say I say nothing too !
Get out and have some fun with your friends .
The planning retirement accounts together . I wouldn’t respond to it . Do not read into it .
Hang in there! Hope you're up to something fun today.
Hey DB warriors! Just wanted to give a quick weekend update.
Went out and GAL Friday and Saturday night with some friends. Dinner and movies and games - oh my! It was actually kind of nice to have distractions, even if just for a little bit. WW and I friendly texted all weekend, but I have been successful in sticking to my guns on not spending time together or seeing each other. I'm finding it easier when I don't see her to focus on myself. Whenever I feel anxious or scared about the future, I gently remind myself that this is also a gift of time to decide if she is someone that I want. BD #2 has made my emotions a little on the up and down side as I am sickened that they are/have been still physical.
WW has been freaking out a little. I think it's because she can sense that I am serious and will not tolerate the triangle any longer. She keeps calling me pet names, saying ILY, and telling me that she can only see a future with me. I haven't really responded other than to say that I want the same things, but will not be in a triangle.
I'm laser focused on myself and growth. I haven't talked with our mutual friends about anything going on which also feels nice. At first it felt weird, as if I was hiding something. Now, I'm proud of the fact that whenever someone brings up a temp check on our R (ie: So how are you both doing? Are ya'll working things out? Etc) I can just say "I just want to spend time with you and not think about anything for a while. I'm working on myself." It feels empowering.
Anyways, I hope you all had a good weekend and I'll try to catch up on your threads to see how everyone else is doing!
WW and I friendly texted all weekend
I strongly suggest to pull back on the texting as well. She need to really feel what it is like to not have you in her life. She has to miss you and want you back. She has to really jump through hoops to get you back.
WW has been freaking out a little.
Pull away and she pursues. You want her pursuing you.
I haven't really responded other than to say that I want the same things, but will not be in a triangle.
Change your response. Vague is a good tactic right now. "I am not sure what I want now"
I can just say "I just want to spend time with you and not think about anything for a while. I'm working on myself." It feels empowering.
Great response. Another good response "It ran it's course"
Went out and GAL Friday and Saturday night with some friends. Dinner and movies and games - oh my! It was actually kind of nice to have distractions, even if just for a little bit.
Perfect!
WW and I friendly texted all weekend, but I have been successful in sticking to my guns on not spending time together or seeing each other.
I agree with R2C, cut way back on the texting. Don't initiate at all, and when she does then be brief with your responses.
WW has been freaking out a little. I think it's because she can sense that I am serious and will not tolerate the triangle any longer. She keeps calling me pet names, saying ILY, and telling me that she can only see a future with me.
Yes, that's a typical reaction when they feel their grip on Plan B slipping.
I haven't really responded other than to say that I want the same things, but will not be in a triangle.
She says shes only sees a future with you? Don't reply. She says it over and over again and asks what you think? Tell her you will not be in a relationship with a cheater. Don't play her mind games. Your attitude should be that as long as she is cheating you will not be her friend, her confidante, her Plan B or her future. PERIOD.
I'm laser focused on myself and growth. I haven't talked with our mutual friends about anything going on which also feels nice. At first it felt weird, as if I was hiding something. Now, I'm proud of the fact that whenever someone brings up a temp check on our R (ie: So how are you both doing? Are ya'll working things out? Etc) I can just say "I just want to spend time with you and not think about anything for a while. I'm working on myself." It feels empowering.
Awesome! That's a great attitude!
Ok guys! Work in progress. Quick feedback for potential responses for a text this morning.
Her: "I sent you an invite to Thanksgiving Thursday at the house. You don't have to bring anything but you're still family. If you don't wanna come I understand."
What do I say? It's so far away. I don't want to think that far into the future at this point. I love her family and they have been my family for almost 8 years now. I want to go - but also want to do the right thing for me - but I want to go.
Tips?
Hi Kristin,
A simple throw-away response for such cases--"I'll think about it."
I love her family and they have been my family for almost 8 years now.
You say they're like family--have other family members invited you directly? E.g., is the host inviting you directly or are you your ex's "plus one"? My partner was sometimes invited to occasions with her ex's family--she explained she would not go to events with him. Now she's sometimes invited and her ex is NOT invited. If your partner were not going, would they invite you? Would you go? What if the AP were there? Just some questions to ask yourself when you are ready to decide. Good job not seeing her this weekend!
Her: "I sent you an invite to Thanksgiving Thursday at the house. You don't have to bring anything but you're still family. If you don't wanna come I understand."
Good words.
or another path:
"I appreciate it"
This will confuse her. She will be thinking of you. Do you want her thinking of you? All is fair in love and war
Her:"What does she appreciate? That I invited her? That She doesn't have to bring anything? That I still think of her as family? That I understand if she doesn't wanna come?? How should I respond to that??"
I would go with "Thank you but I've already made plans." And then make other plans
Hi Kristin,
Great job not seeing her this weekend-- and looks like you can already see the impact it is having on her. If you need some support to lay off on the friendly text responses-- just see how much the NC is working so far in person and you can bet that non-committal, irregular text responses will have the same effect.
And for Thanksgiving-- love CW/RTC's responses. And also why not make other plans anyway per AS and not go to her family's? That way you aren't worrying about what it will/won't be like with her there; you can avoid seeing her and her family and the potential pain that might bring; things will be much more under YOUR control than hers. A marathon, not a sprint... skipping Thanksgiving this year in the service of the long-term might be a good trade.
So I went with similar to RTC. I just said "Ok, thank you"... leave 'em guessing! Anyways, I'm really trying to scale back the texting comm, but I know it will take work on my part. Just like R won't happen overnight, I can't just flip and switch and go full NC. I'm making progress so far though with all the help and advice from everyone - so thanks! I definitely do not reach out first and I try to keep my responses short (which is a big 180 for me). I'm reminding myself daily of what I want in a future R and how I deserve to be treated. I think we all forget these things from time to time.
Try to start putting more of a delay in your responses or if it’s not a question no need to respond . I found it it’s not a question to not respond so helpful when not knowing what to say or if I should . I like your answer about the holiday. Short and no need to elaborate. Keeping giving to her distance . You are doing great !
Hey guys. So it's officially been over a week since I've spent any time with ww. Longest we've spent apart in almost a decade. Ironically, today marks the 1 year anniversary of BD "I have feelings for someone else". Stupid Halloween. Her favorite holiday and quite obviously, my least favorite. However, I am not going to let some stupid date on a calendar ruin a perfectly rainy day here in Tennessee. I am enjoying everyone at work all dressed up and festive. Still not sure what my plans will be for the evening, but either way, I will try and enjoy the day.
In other news, ww and I have still been talking via txt and calls quite frequently. I don't know if she is still in comm with AP, and I haven't snooped to find out. I think I'm finally starting to build some walls of protection for myself. Boundaries. I keep repeating one of the suggested replys to her on here and it has become my mantra.
"Given our current situation, I don't think spending time together is a good idea"
It's baby steps for me. I have discovered that I need to work on the unhealthy attachment we both have for one another. Regardless of whether we decide to R, it's not a healthy level of "neediness". Throughout the years, we somehow managed to move from being an excellent team together, to relying on one another for emotional support and happiness. Anyways, I am still focused on enjoying my life without her. I hope everyone is having a Happy Halloween!
I'm jealous of how quickly you have progressed. I was like a crying baby for a long time. Good on you!
OVR! I am by no means healed. I still cry like a baby almost on a daily basis. I am failing at no contact. We talk all day via texting and calling. She calls me pet names and says ILY. I occasionally slip up and call her hun or babe, etc. I am sticking to my guns about not spending time together and really trying to remind myself that I am taking time now. She isn't making the rules, she doesn't get to determine my schedule or my life. I am taking time and I really need to think about whether it is healthy for me to be in a R with her. No more begging, no more hopeful anticipation for attention - waiting on baited breath for a glance, smile, or the brush of a hand. I'm on a voyage to FIND my worth, appreciate, and love myself. And a special thanks to this community who has given me a system of support from people who understand what it's like to be completely taken by surprise and left feeling like they lost an appendage or had a kidney stolen for sale on the black market.
I still cry like a baby almost on a daily basis. I am sticking to my guns about not spending time together and really trying to remind myself that I am taking time now. She isn't making the rules, she doesn't get to determine my schedule or my life. I am taking time and I really need to think about whether it is healthy for me to be in a R with her. No more begging, no more hopeful anticipation for attention - waiting on baited breath for a glance, smile, or the brush of a hand. I'm on a voyage to FIND my worth, appreciate, and love myself.
That you're fighting for yourself *despite* crying like a baby on a daily basis shows your strength. I hope you have a Happy Halloween, with big ghosties and goblins at work, and little ghosties and goblins tonight.
I keep repeating one of the suggested replys to her on here and it has become my mantra.
"Given our current situation, I don't think spending time together is a good idea"
It is best to state boundaries once. Enforce by your actions. In some cases, you do not even have to state the boundary, just protect yourself by your actions.
Personally, based on the info you have posted here, I believe you are communicating with her WAY to much.
Just a question for you to ask yourself:
How is she going to miss me when I am constantly in contact with her, text or otherwise?
Remember, counter-intuitive.
Is one of your goals to have an exclusive intimate relationship with her? If so then she needs to FEEL she has lost you. You will know she feels this when she starts BEGGING for a second chance. When she does this, You respond with "I am not sure. I need time to think about what you have said" and then you come here and get advise, options and direction.
HUGS
You can handle this
R2C,
I haven't actually said this mantra to her. I just repeat it to myself so that I can stick to the boundary if/when she asks to do anything. For now, I think she knows the answer will be no. It's nice to have that little reminder to stay grounded and not get hopeful, anxious, etc. though.
I know that this (independence and exclusivity) is the ultimate goal. It DEFINITELY feels counter-intuitive to the norm. Judge me if you will - but it doesn't feel right in my bones to just cut communication completely. I know this is the definition of feeling counter-intuitive but I have to follow my heart. I don't reach out first and have gotten slower to respond. Again, taking time for myself and letting her have whatever space she wants. Right now I'm friend-zoning her hardcore because, at this point, I'm finally to the point that I'm not sure I want to R. At least not until actions follow suit. I guess I'm just done falling for her smooth talk. (or trying to be)
I don't know if she is still in comm with AP, and I haven't snooped to find out.
More than likely she is. Usually if the WAS breaks contact with OP then they tell the LBS about it, I think to assuage some of their own guilty feelings. It rarely means anything though, within a few days or week they are right back on with OP, or onto OP #2.
I think I'm finally starting to build some walls of protection for myself. Boundaries. I keep repeating one of the suggested replys to her on here and it has become my mantra.
"Given our current situation, I don't think spending time together is a good idea"
Good, you have to kind of make yourself remember the rules at first but eventually you'll get the hang of it.
I have discovered that I need to work on the unhealthy attachment we both have for one another.
But was it unhealthy? Here's my take. Marriage is all about coming together with another as a team. You depend on each other- codependency isn't a disease, it's NORMAL in marriage! When we get BD'd then our natural reaction is to say "I never should have gotten this attached, it hurts too much". But that's love. Being in love is a wonderful thing until a breakup, then is su$ks!
I don't reach out first and have gotten slower to respond. ....I'm just done falling for her smooth talk....
Perfect.
After bomb drop, all the relationship rules change. Quickly adapting to the new rules is key.
Actions speak louder than words. Both from you and her.
Change your actions. Watch her actions.