Been lurking some time but feel it’s time to come toward .
History been together 12 years married 4. Second marriage for both . Both have 1 child from first marriage and have 1 child together .
Rocky relationship for some of the time . Had a few move outs on his part for short periods usually few weeks then we would always reconcile . Some arguments on both ends have turned quite physical or verbal . Many periods of calmness as well over the 12 years . Spend a lot of time together dating and enjoying each other’s company . He is always liked more freedom to come and go with his friends . Myself I enjoy my life to be filled with my kids and my husband . Always a source of conflict .
About a year ago we had one of our verbal fights . I said hurtful things he did as well . About a month or so after he became let’s say “withdrawn” stopped saying I love you and basically was a dead fish . Out with friends . Ignoring me when home . Gym . Golfing ..no sex unless I initiated. I picked up the pace planned more outings and get aways . Just left him alone when out . He then tells me in April he was planning on moving into a condo alone , full blown plan while I had no idea but feels more secure now .
Obviously this did not sit well with me and threw me into a tail spin . So months of back n forth of him saying he wanted to be there had little avail on me and out the door he went in a fit of rage after another fight .
First 3 days did all the no no no’s. Beg plead cry
So 3 months in this is where I am . He has said he has no intentions of coming home . He loves me but wants to be alone and not in a relationship . From the get go he has been staying over 2-5 nights a week . Yes in the marital bed and yes is intimate every time .I rarely over last few weeks call or text. But he will everyday .Some of the nights are planned to help with children . Some he just wants to spend time with me and the kids . I GAL often . I don’t ask where his is nor do I offer where I am . Anytime I say something about relationship or hinting at something he pulls back with eventually you will find someone else .
What in the world do I do here ??? Stay like this ??? Pull the rug out and cut ties ??
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Sorry you find yourself here, Cali.
First things first, take the time to read through all of Cadet’s homework. Second, make sure you read Divorce Remedy, it’s important you know exactly what you are up against. Knowledge is power.
Lastly, have you noticed any red flags that might indicate an affair for H?
Possibly . He’s always been in some sort of unexplained situation . A weird text that just does sound right when I have looked . Many female friends . Always latches on to one for long spurts .Never been able to get a solid base though of proof . I bought divorce busting months ago . Read a few times . 7 love languages as well .
I am also completely on fence as to if he is a walk away or MLCer. He’s 36 I am 39. But he is also very inconsistent. Says he’s never moving back in yet spend quite a bit of time here . Parties hard at times but then full blown crashes . He hasn’t really spewed any hate in the last month or so . Seems completely comfortable being in and out . The only time I really get any type of what he’s feeling is when he doesn’t see me for a few days and has no idea what I am up to . Then its we both did this to our marriage . I just had the courage to pull the plug on it . Next day will be over and back in the bed and out the door next day .
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Keep posting. Keep focusing on you and your kids. I know you dont want to hear it but there is a huge possibility that he is having an affair. It sounds like he is a wayward husband.
What he is doing is cake eating and it is not fair to you. He wants to be single, possibly sleep with other women, so he moves out. But he wants to keep you emotionally attached so he can enjoy your MR whenever he wants.
You should stop being physical because he could be putting you at risk. This back and forth is doing immense damage to you emotionally. Read the detachment rules. Read Sandis rules. Apply those techniques.
You deserve better.
I see a lot of postings about wayward wives not much on husbands . Any links would be helpful . Haven’t quite mastered detachment . Work in progress there . Do I think he’s actively having an affair -no . Potential with his current behavior absolutely. I’ve been really trying to do more of what works . I’m pleasant and friendly but a bit distant when he’s around . He becomes clingy . The pursuer. Keeping it more airy and fun .The other day I threw out a feeler and said I really like spending time at night with you . Immediately I got “ you will find someone to do that with again “ I ignored the comment. Then I get the next day random hints at a date . I don’t really bite at it all then it’s so you wanna go to this music festival . I go . We have a great time as usual , dates are our strong point. He doesn’t say he loves me but doesn’t need to. Says it in other ways. But there’s this huge part of me screaming inside “ I’m seriously dating my husband of 12 years someone come smack me “ . I will grab DR and read it . I read DB. It is confusing when it comes to sex some say do it some say don’t . I do not like the back n forth and emotionally it does take a toll .
Also should I really dig deep to see if there’s an active affair ? If I find nothing does it change the approach as far a intimacy? If I do find an affair obviously that changes it .
He act really strange in this cituation. From the way that he behave, it seems like he's having an afair from side. Have you proposed him using a family therapist? If he'll continue saying that everything is okay, then it's hard to see how it can work. Maybe, it's better to end this this marriage and GAL as he said. If divorce will be mutual, then it will cost much cheaper, just print divorce forms from online and throw them in his face! it's important to make changes in your life if you're not being happy in marriage. You can't just leave everything as it is, he makes you cry only because he can't be a good husband, there is no your fault in spending all time with kids! Does he even know how much time and effort it takes for raising a child?
He act really strange in this cituation. From the way that he behave, it seems like he's having an afair from side. Have you proposed him using a family therapist? If he'll continue saying that everything is okay, then it's hard to see how it can work. Maybe, it's better to end this this marriage and GAL as he said. If divorce will be mutual, then it will cost much cheaper, just print divorce forms from online and throw them in his face! it's important to make changes in your life if you're not being happy in marriage. You can't just leave everything as it is, he makes you cry only because he can't be a good husband, there is no your fault in spending all time with kids! Does he even know how much time and effort it takes for raising a child?
Well this is the Divorce Busting website, so throwing divorce forms at him will likely just get you divorced.
If thats what you want its good advice but I wonder why you are posting on a forum to save your marriage?
I am sorry you find yourself here. You are in the right place. You may not always hear/read something you like -- tough love and 2*4s -- but I would encourage you to keep posting either way. Everyone here is going through a similar sitch or has gone through it and come out on the other side. By that I don't mean they all saved their M, but many people have moved on to much healthier situations, for them and for their families. There are many posters here that have, or have had, wayward Hs. I am one of them. I will link a couple threads to check out after this post.
I am not sure why DianneVa suggests throwing D papers in his face, but as Cadet says, it could very well likely end in a D. My assumption is that because you are here, you want to save your M. I am not clear how her advice follows the DB principles, but some people do think that threatening D or starting a new R can scare them back home, however it is not inline with what we learn here. I think your best bet right now is to read all of Cadets links and then read them again. Start implementing Sandi's rules today. I used to read them every morning and then try my best to follow all of them. I made mistakes, and that is okay, and then I would simply start over. When I was able to follow them well, I often felt better about myself and started working towards detaching a bit.This is a very painful time and it is important to practice self forgiveness, patience and love. You won't be perfect and that is okay too.
I completely agree with SoTorn. In fact, I will take it a step further and say that I am certain he has had or is having As. Why am I certain? Because I have been reading here for 6 years and if there is one thing I have learned it is that our inner voice is always right! Call it intuition, gut feeling, a sense that something could be slightly off and "maybes" are all enough signs that you can just trust it. It is happening. All posters here that have had a spouse that had an A, will all tell you that they just had a feeling that something was off. That is all the proof you really need. I stand by my beliefs.
So what do you do differently? You still follow the same rules, drop the rope, do not initiate any contact, etc. However as SoTorn says, you need to start protecting yourself. You need to protect yourself physically (from STDs and pregnancy) and emotionally (you are extremely vulnerable right now and he is taking advantage of that). This is some massive cake eating. He has left you and your home, yet he is allowed to date you and sleep with you? You should cut all of that off. Why? Can't it bring you closer, people ask? I do not believe that for a second. It actually weakens your position. Strong and confident women do not allow their H to abandon the M, tell them it's over, and then come and go as they please. Just try and think about it as an outsider for a moment if you can.
Your first post concerned me. You mentioned that your arguments have been physical. Are you willing to elaborate on that more? Because I am wondering if the end of this sort of relationship could be a blessing in disguise. I feel strongly that no one should ever put their hands on another or cause any type of physical harm or even use violence as intimation. I had an Ex from my younger days where things almost escalated to that point, and many years later, I can see how damaging and unhealthy that relationship was. In my M now, we have had a lot of struggles, but nothing that ever compromised physical safety. I do wonder if that is the sort of M that is worth walking away from. If not for you, then for the kids. Perhaps I misunderstood that and need correcting.
Take good care,
Blu
Thank you I have no plans of throwing papers or anything in his face.
Blue wave - thanks for the great advice . I think the issue I have to come to terms with is the massive Cake eating . At first it was maybe a few days a week short intervals . Now moved up the amount of time we are spending together positively whether us together or family time . That’s where I have the conflict because it has had some positive effects . He hated coming home for about the last year or so and was a complete dead fish for awhile .Where now I tend to get more of the “ I can’t wait to see you “ or “ you seem different , calmer , home is more peaceful “. I see more of what we were many moons ago . He knows my stance on marriage . GAL has been a great source of stress relief for me. I enjoy just some time alone as well which has never been as easy thing for me . I tend to over think , worry and allow many things or situations to hinder my moods . Over the past 3 months out of all this craziness the one thing I have slowly learned is I have to stop living my life to make others happy because I need to be in a place where I am important too . As far as the violence I would say a bickering turns into a full blown verbal arguement , name calling , down right demeaning things said on both ends . One of us then escalated to threats one would leave . Maybe a household item broken . Two physical altercations in 12 years . Pushing . Neither one knows how to back down . Goal for me - learn to not escalate and find the root of the problem . I have learned over the last 3 months when he has spewed if I just listen and take a few minutes to react some where in the spew is really what’s bothering him .i fully take my 50 percent responsibility I have been no dream during arguments as well . I will agree on your take on affair . Do I think there’s one now . No . Brewing or burned out very well maybe so .I’m going to take some time and read all the links you sent me and re-evaluate where I’m going with this .
Much of the same has gone on over last 2 days . Few dates a lot of contact from him but at his convenience. If I can not make it or offer a different time then it’s a no go . I took some time to read through the links posted . I need to at this point have some serious boundaries . This is some serious cake eating and though I enjoy spending time with my husband and my goal is to R. This can no longer go on as it’s now becoming me just saying yes to everything . So question with boundaries . Do I clearly state ..... I will no longer sleep with you without commitment? Do I decline every invite or just some of them ?
Echoing what has been said before, I'd strongly recommend reading the Boundaries thread - it is invaluable in situations like this, and contains hugely useful advice.
Definitely adopt a strong position and give no indication of being weak or passive. If you are interacting more than infrequently, he should notice this quickly.
Hi Cali
I'm a newbie here but I think I can see some solutions to your questions. I have been on both sides of these issues. The vets can flame me at will if I'm wrong.
These are all easier to say than do. But if I can do them (or try) you can too.
1. Stop arguing back about anything and validate. Outside of the links here, there's a book called "I Hear You" that has a fantastic step by step validation technique. If that's not allowed I apologize to the moderators.
2. Stop having sex. No means no. It doesn't take a discussion. You'll just be opening up to another huge deal. Figure something out. Headache, mood, tired, time of the month... Whatever. You guys are good at that stuff!
It looks like that's a 180 for you. Also consider not letting him in your bed. I would consider that a boundary.
3. Go on dates about 1/3-1/2 of the times offered. (Only if you want to.)
4. Don't do the DB techniques blindly. A lot of it is very counter intuitive that's part of what makes it so hard to do. I do follow 99.9% but I'm a very analytical person so I have to turn everything inside out before I do it. It's your R and it's very hard to see the utility of some of this stuff because of the counter-intuitiveness. All of it is proven effective, most will fit your sitch because they are all so similar, but some won't.
None of this has to be done with some kind of attitude. It should more or less be presented pleasantly as a matter of fact, just like it's always been that way.
Just breathe...
I think being passive is part of my 180 but also makes me appear weak . I have always been the pursuer, never really passive . The planner and very opinionated. Now working on distance and detaching . Lesson learned on pursuit . He offered to have a breakfast date . I declined . I offered a different time later . He agreed . Then called to say he wasn’t coming . Rather then argue which I normally would do . I said I will call u back . I never did . Went and read a book . Watched a movie . Talked to friends . I didn’t call for the simple fact of I can not let his decisions effect my mental status . It was clearly noticed . I didn’t respond to it today when he texted this morning because of the way it was communicated which was harshly .
I think the easier said then to do just speaks volumes . The detaching and distancing is quite hard . Today I had plans to GAL . He had plans to spend time with kids at my home while I was out . Gal has been such a great resource for me I didn’t even realize I ever needed more of . He came earlier then expected . Questioned where I was 3 times before I came home . Came home I said hello pleasantly , now my usual is to kiss him hello . Nope a friendly wave and up I went to get dressed for GAL . I was planning on just changing and leaving . I’m starting to see the pursuit n distance a bit clearer now . As I was headed out here comes H on pursuit walks over grabs me kisses me . When You said saying is easier then doing you are spot on ! It felt so wrong but I just said sorry I’m running late I have to go . I really just wanted to kiss him back and ask about his day . But didn’t . I left . I just tell myself the man standing there kissing me is not my husband but a reflection of what he was and in a few hours he will be back to a man I do not know .
GAL was so much fun . Shopping , dinner and a few drinks with one of my friends . Felt great just to be me again
Not planning my night around what anyone else was doing or my husband .
When I came home I heard my H on phone with a friend . I don’t know the context of why it was said but I heard “this is why I got married “ . I acted as if I didn’t hear it and went to feed the dog .
I’m glad you had a good time GALing! I have to say that was a masterful job getting back out of the house. He was probably dumbfounded.
Keep your chin up and have faith this will work. I have to keep telling myself that daily. Hourly even.
I took some time to re read the lighthouse . The part in the story where it says but I know this so you can’t hurt me really just touched me today . I got more of the “ kids need to get used to both of us not being there for them “. I didn’t even respond to that part of his message the rationale of H blaming me for taking a little bit to call our son back because some how I wanted time alone . Non sense
Praise .... H spent time at home with kids over a few days though I distanced. Is this something to praise . The children really enjoy it . H enjoys it too . So hard to keep a friendly neighbor or act as if but give praise. Then somewhere I read to praise the good .
Still doing pursuit and distance dance . Me doing more GAL today . Another great day with friends and also time with son .
Boundaries are tough but I’m starting to come to terms with them . I can no longer be weak or jump at crumbs .
This week I have been asked by h are you mad at me a few times .... I don’t feel as if I’m being cold . Just continuing with some DB. I get off the phone first not harshly just saying ok I will talk to you later. Im working on being a better listener and just being quiet when he’s around . I’m starting to notice he tries to explain his actions more . Even apologized for a hurtful statement he made that was way out of line . Rather then blow my lid I ended the convo quickly and went silent . I’ve come to the point that I will no longer allow him to say hurtful things . My silence appears to have the most impact not only on him but mainly helps me not to allow it into my well being . Continues to want to spend time together . Right now if there’s an A there’s no signs of it . He’s not withdrawn , distant or cold . Almost the opposite . Attentive , calls, texts , visits frequently . I’m still holding steady on the distance stance for myself . He’s living in 2 worlds. Mainly ours together but the few days he’s not here the other . He’s openly admitting the grass isn’t so green . The detached part of me knows this is who he is right now so I will just continue on my path . He may catch up . He may not .Going to GAL today and it is much needed !!!!!
I’m starting to notice he tries to explain his actions more . Even apologized for a hurtful statement he made that was way out of line . Rather then blow my lid I ended the convo quickly and went silent . I’ve come to the point that I will no longer allow him to say hurtful things . My silence appears to have the most impact not only on him but mainly helps me not to allow it into my well being .
GAL today and it is much needed !!!!!
You sound in a really healthy place. May you and me and everyone else here have a great GAL day!
So after GAL last night which was great as always I ended up going on a date with H. Great time as always ( is enjoying dates has never been an issue ). So as I was getting ready to leave to go to my home I’ve been noticing he becomes clingy . Takes deep breaths . Just stares at me . But I proceed to say I had a great time . I’m gonna head home and leave . All I can say is this is by far the hardest thing I have done . I smiled and pulled away . Then come the texts and phone calls from him . Maybe temp checks ?? I would normally poor my heart out but didn’t . Even though I was crying driving when he called I quickly pulled it together . Then he initiates a R talk . Telling me living in 2 worlds is slowly killing him . He actually admitted to having a part of him wanting to come home but doesn’t trust we won’t fall back into the same patterns and have toxic fights . But also admitted the part of just wanting to not try anymore . I tried validating but did awful . I think I was caught off guard . I didn’t argue but said I’m never gonna ask you to come home that’s a decision only you can make . He has really started to spend more time with me and at home but I got that feeling he’s about to run hard the other way . What will be shall be .
Telling me living in 2 worlds is slowly killing him . He actually admitted to having a part of him wanting to come home but doesn’t trust we won’t fall back into the same patterns and have toxic fights . But also admitted the part of just wanting to not try anymore . I tried validating but did awful. I didn’t argue but said I’m never gonna ask you to come home that’s a decision only you can make .
It sounds like you did brilliantly. You were crying.. but you held it together.. still made an attempt.. and doesn't sound like you said anything that would worsen the situation. You can only expect so much of yourself. Part of the responsibility for a HappyEnding rests on him, as you say. I hope he chooses wisely!
I think what’s really bothering me is he doesn’t admit any fault . The late night partying .The barely speaking to each other for days . Being cold . I pointed out the last month he’s different when he’s here . He kisses me . Plans things . Doesn’t have this run out of the house mentality when he’s here . Seems focused on our family and R. His response was I’m no different . So I tried to validate and just said ok your not different but maybe I see you different . There’s no new R unless you embrace your failures and faults . We both agreed over the past month neither one has brought up R. I simply stated because we both have been working on our foundation together . Easily agreed. There is no M without it . Just feel like I got a bad vibe from entire convo and should have maybe cut it off earlier but who knows .
So after GAL last night which was great as always I ended up going on a date with H. Great time as always ( is enjoying dates has never been an issue ). So as I was getting ready to leave to go to my home I’ve been noticing he becomes clingy . Takes deep breaths . Just stares at me . But I proceed to say I had a great time . I’m gonna head home and leave . All I can say is this is by far the hardest thing I have done . I smiled and pulled away . Then come the texts and phone calls from him . Maybe temp checks ?? I would normally poor my heart out but didn’t . Even though I was crying driving when he called I quickly pulled it together . Then he initiates a R talk . Telling me living in 2 worlds is slowly killing him . He actually admitted to having a part of him wanting to come home but doesn’t trust we won’t fall back into the same patterns and have toxic fights . But also admitted the part of just wanting to not try anymore . I tried validating but did awful . I think I was caught off guard . I didn’t argue but said I’m never gonna ask you to come home that’s a decision only you can make . He has really started to spend more time with me and at home but I got that feeling he’s about to run hard the other way . What will be shall be .
I think you are doing great. Seriously. I know your heart is telling you to pursue, to reach out and pull him in close to tell him how much you care... I am choked up just thinking about that. But you are strong. You did resist that urge because deep down you know he isn't ready. Work on being the most attractive Caligirl you can be!!
The fact that he is questioning his decision is good. He may try to goad you into arguments so that you can be the boogeyman he needs to blame. Don't do it. Don't get in the way of him questioning what he's doing.
I love that you told him you aren't going to ask him to come home. Very strong.
I continue on this path of DB still having doubts that I’m not going about this right . Detachment is a hard process when someone is increasing the amount of time home . Hard to gal last few days as gal takes away from parenting time some days .
H has continued to talk R . Starts the R talks . I still never begin them . Talks about reconciling he’s continuing to just say he’s fearful . Maybe we are better together . Maybe we are better apart . I validate about fears . Just saying yes it can be frightening. But I’m starting to notice maybe I am giving too much of my positive side and it may be unknowingly pursuit . Because my input is met with silence . Almost as if I need to make these R talks one sided . He talks .... I just listen . Give not much back . I’m a talker so ahhhhhh that’s hard .He told me he loved me for the first time in months . I have to detach more with yes he felt that for the moment or maybe it’s been lingering the more I show my true happy loving caring self . But he’s still so confused. Says it . Believe none of what they say ? Half of what they do ? I don’t even know which half to believe. The half when he’s with me and peaceful or the half when he leaves .
Today was a challenge I met him with kids . I left with them . I knew he had to come back to grab a few things for work . I leave he’s still parked in car . Now normally I would call him or ask why it took over an hour for him to drive 5 mins . I didn’t . I went home . Started dinner . Cleaned . Low n behold he walks in with sweets for me . Goal definitely for me is to learn not to smother someone . Baby steps today but felt good.
Throw me some 2x4s I may need a few
Hey Caligirl, just wanted to say hang in there!! You are strong and doing great! I see a lot of similarities in our situations and I also find it really hard to GAL and act detached when the H is home and being sweet/friendly/fun, plus when GAL means giving up time with the kids. My main differences are that I know there was an EA and as of the last R talk he still has feelings for her; mine is living at home (just moved back to the bedroom a couple of weeks ago) but isn't talking about our R like yours is. Reading through your thread is really motivating for me-- thank you for keeping up your posting. You are a great example! One thing I might share that could be helpful in your situation too- I am talking with a DB coach and she suggested treating him like a beloved houseguest (maybe a little more connected than with a friendly neighbor?) and also that spending fun quality time together as a family is good, OK to compliment him on things like being a good dad (especially if that is a 180 for you), all as long as you are avoiding pursuing behaviors and words. Of course our situations are not exactly the same but close enough that her advice might be helpful for you too.
Talks about reconciling he’s continuing to just say he’s fearful . Maybe we are better together . Maybe we are better apart . I validate about fears . Just saying yes it can be frightening.
Good. Don't steer him in any particular direction, just listen and validate.
But I’m starting to notice maybe I am giving too much of my positive side and it may be unknowingly pursuit . Because my input is met with silence . Almost as if I need to make these R talks one sided . He talks .... I just listen . Give not much back .
Yes exactly. Don't offer your own opinion, just let him talk and you just listen. He's trying to sort things out in his head and is just talking to you to hear himself out loud.
But he’s still so confused. Says it . Believe none of what they say ? Half of what they do ? I don’t even know which half to believe. The half when he’s with me and peaceful or the half when he leaves .
Definitely believe him when he says he's confused, because that part is true for sure.
Low n behold he walks in with sweets for me . Goal definitely for me is to learn not to smother someone . Baby steps today but felt good.
Throw me some 2x4s I may need a few
Not sure you need them, you're doing pretty well it sounds like! He's starting to pursue so your DB'ing is working. This isn't the time to break into pursuit because if you do he'll run. Just keep up your DB'ing and celebrate the baby steps internally. This would be a good time to increase GAL. Go out with some friends and dress to kill, let him see you leaving. It'll eat him up.
Thanks for the positive take ! Much appreciated . Today I was asked outright what I wanted . Went south pretty fast . Unfortunately H expressed he would rather live in limbo then come to terms with how he feels and make a new R or completely walk away. This came randomly after him asking random things “ temp checks “and hours after the convo he started that went south with my positive take on life and marriage . He threw some other nonsense in there I didn’t respond to . Maybe to get a bite ? Not even a nibble given .Then put out he wants to live in the moment and him thinking about making any decision tears him up that he’s content in 2 worlds . Total fog , cake eater whatever we wish to call it . Again I didn’t respond . Wasn’t really a question and I don’t know how to validate being in limbo and don’t really agree with it . So I said nothing .
This morning I feel good . Starting to see more that sometimes just not saying anything is better for my internal peace. Separating my emotions from H allows me time really to process my own and does help with being ok to disagree without a big fight and have my own calmness . Learning not to let a new emotion of mine or H over take me is hard but I feel like I’m starting to see the good it does me or even both of us .Even if GAL is taking a 20 minute bath it still some time I invested in myself . Helps me organize my emotions or sometimes just put them away for a bit .
After last night of me not knowing what to say so I said nothing . H again came in and temp checked on if I was up to going out on a date . He stood there for a little just waiting . This month is a complete 180 for him inviting me out so much and really being present during our time together . Not getting too hopeful because this could just be a wrinkle and he ll be on the run again in no time . I accepted which is a 180 for me because it was late and normally this would stress me going out so late and having a long tired day next day . He poked a little trying to get me to complain it was late. No bite . What was odd was during this he was packing his belongings up to not come back for a few nights . I almost blurted out - you know why don’t you go alone . I didn’t . This is a marathon not a sprint keep my head in the game . To my surprise he walks over and just lays on my lap almost like a child and says “ please just give me time I’m so scared “. So I just kissed his head . No words spoken . Out the door we went for our date .
you got this Caligirl! Keep it up-- love how you are able to process and separate your emotions from his-- I find that really helps me too when I can step back and think without reacting. This forum is great for helping on that front for me at least.
GAL today was super fun . Some much needed time with Son . Haunted hayride . Had a blast .
So H has been here last 5 nights . He has auto immune disease that knocks him out for weeks been on going for last 5 years on and off .. Luckily he has tons of stocked vacation time . He’s openly admitted he’s depressed . Has a few hours a day where he’s functional . Mainly he sleeps all day perks up in evening . Today he seemed better . A long habit of mine was to constantly call or check in . I left work knew he would be gone before I came home . He had man plans. So I decided not to call him . This has been one of my 180s give him space and pay no mind to his activities. Even though now he tells me just about all of them now .I just wish him well . He called me to check in . I laughed to myself . Tells me some of his plans with with his friends . Kept convo light . Cut it short . Off I went to GAL .
Yesterday he was in car with me talking on phone with his sister . They are pretty close. She has never been my greatest fan and would love nothing more than to see us remain apart. He expressed this is a source of stress with reconciliation facing his sister . I knew she asked about me I was sitting next to him . For the first time in months I heard this :I really appreciate everything my W has done for me the past few weeks . She’s been great . I thought an alien had jumped in the car but nope it was my H. The one I fell in love with and married . Even if only for just a few minutes . He got off phone pretty quickly because I’m sure that didn’t sit well with her and he just grabbed my hand . He said maybe I needed to get sick to calm down . To see who really will be there for me . Who knows me and loves me. Who gets it. It was directed at me who has always been his care taker when he’s down and never has said a complaint about it . I gave no response didn’t even know what to say so I smiled and changed subject to something random . It’s an odd thing . I started saying thank you more (180) when he does something kind or something just small . He’s now parroting some of this . I don’t ever think I have heard thank you so much out of this man . I’m noticing little things he would stay a night and be so against doing laundry here . Who knows why . That way I’m pretty easy going . He’s continued to co parent . Pay his share of bills in home and with children . My goodness like wash your clothes . Nope . I ignored it . Let it go and said ok you wanna drive all over to wash your clothes feel free . Low and behold I look over and his laundry is sitting mixed in my basket with mine in master bedroom. My towels folded too . Now I wonder is he ever going to say I want to move home or just never leave??? But there’s a huge part of me screaming it’s good while he’s down but when he’s up he runs hard and fast .
Reality is this we are far from reconciliation. I’m not sure if he wants to . Words say yes and no . Actions have been more towards yes . But believe only 50%. Curious to see how this goes . He could walk in the door late tonight or not at all . I didn’t even ask if he was coming back . He could run really hard after some man time - usually his pattern . He could stay just the same in limbo. No expectations but maybe just a little bit of hope . I saw to post hope on this board and not talk to spouses about it.So I’m gonna say I see just a little bit of hope coming from H that this M may reconcile .
Weekend was fun as always . Some family time and some GAL. GAL I’m finding I need to keep up just to keep my emotions in check . Gives me time just to breathe and not think too much .
Got into a few R talk over the weekend . H started . Don’t know if it’s really a talk when you just listen . I’m not super strong at Validating so really just listening is easier sometimes . First one was a definite R check on his part . Not a doubt in me he’s trying to pull out my feelings . Nope ! Goes like this “H - so we seem to really like to spend time together “ Me- yes seems so . Saved at that point by a babysitter call . Changed subject after phone call for awhile .Again H - so what were we talking about before the sitter called . Me- I have no idea . H - oh how we like spending time together . Me again - yes . A little bit of him grasping and then I changed subject . Next day -MC was brought up by H and think we should go . I stated I am open to it only if the mind set from both of us is this is to R our marriage not end it . H agreed that is the purpose . Voiced he was so sure months ago when he moved out that he wanted nothing to do with being married ever again and now he’s just sorry . He asked who I was talking too that’s made me so calm and happy . Awkward!!!! Couldn’t say DB forum . Just said I talk to someone . I stopped the R talk after about 10 mins .
So now my dilemma. H has really been kind , sweet talking , pet naming , spending a lot of time with me . Almost as when you first date someone . But is this real or an act ? Ever get that little voice telling you there’s something Just isn’t quite right ?
Been a super stressful start to the week . GAL is on the horizon though . Looking forward to just getting out and de-stressing over the upcoming weekend . Some much needed time with my gal pals planned .
H continues to increase talk about reconciliation. Though not anything solid and no real plan on his part . Confusion , depression , limbo still very clear . I’ve tried to increase my validation . Using phrases I have found on here has been a life saver in those moments of not knowing what to say .
My PMA has been noticed by H but also helps me stay grounded for my own sanity and well being . Feels good to smile and just walk away . This week my goal was to learn to be softer spoken . It’s a struggle to be a good listener but with patience and practice it’s who I strive to be .
I feel as though H is testing me . My noticed changes he’s stated . Will try and twist the way I reacted to something or turn me saying nothing into “ I know you are mad”. I just don’t bite.
R talks are hard . It’s really hard not to give all your emotions up to someone you have always been so upfront with . On Sunday night he looked at me and said do you know I have never loved anyone the way I love you . I just smiled but I wanted to reply well I hope you never love anyone the same way because I wouldn’t want anyone to feel the same pain I’ve been put through .
Sending good vibes your way, Caligirl!! Stay strong and stay the course... obviously I'm not a vet but from reading here seems like sometimes folks backslide by jumping too quickly at R before their WAS is really ready-- super impressed with how you are handling this. Great job!!
Ever get that little voice telling you there’s something Just isn’t quite right ?
Every single time I get that voice in the back of my head, the little voice is right. Trust your intuition.
Keep up with the 180's! It sounds like you're doing great!
Had a great day today . Accomplished a lot at work and home . PMA is a great tool for me . Not only with Relationships at home it’s helped me at work .
Last night H kept digging at me for what I was thinking about . I tried the make myself busy , change the subject and just walk away saying nothing much . No avail . Once corned I will say I caved . Go ahead with some 2x4s. I said I don’t like being stuck with no clear path in our marriage . H responded with we have a path this is getting fixed . We are going to work on this . Find a marriage counselor I’m all in . Keep the pace slow but we are together .
So now how to approach this .... I know H physically is going through a lot auto immune disease still really beating him up . Yesterday was complete mental breakdown for him. Completely broken . Admitted he went to hard partying and shows some real regret and can’t wrap his head around how I’m still standing and not full of hate .
Now what’s the next step ?
Now what’s the next step ?
Find a marriage counselor
I reversed these sentences from your post, but there's your answer.
I don't know whether it's better to suggest you do it, so it gets done, or suggest he do it so you remain detached and make sure he's bought into the idea.
But, remember that little voice? What's it telling you?
I will definitely be the one to find the marriage counselor. I’ve reached out to a few coaches who have done Michelle’s training . I may let the dust settle a little before scheduling and see how his pace is and commitment. Saying and actions are two totally different things .
Little voice right now is telling me he wants to work on marriage but not to jump in head first . I’m scared in all reality . I don’t think I really processed how deep down the last year effected me . How truly hurt I am by some of it . I love my H . I want a better new marriage. But there’s a huge part of me now that really thinks would he have done the same for me ? Would he have stood for his marriage even when it was the darkest . I chose to love unconditionally it was something I never understood until recent weeks and this forum . I’m still DBing not pursuing , not clingy , didn’t bring up what he said about us working on this and I’m not calling or texting first . I’m Still distancing . I will admit it’s nice being pursued after watching him run away so hard . H is starting recognize good things in the marriage . His faults he’s admitting . My strengths are noticed . His weaknesses more apparent.
Hey Caligirl! I don't blame you one bit for not trusting his words, but it definitely seems like he is being sincere! It's not going to repair over night and you both have a long, uphill battle, but I hope that his actions continue to back up his words. I really relate to you because I, too, have chosen to love unconditionally and I know with certainty that if roles were reversed my ww would leave me like a sack of potatoes. It's great that he is willing to do MC and I hope he "has a good mind set" as you said about what your goals would be as a couple. Hang in there and keep making him prove it! You seem so strong.
Balancing my own emotions is hard today just need a break to calm my mind . Have plans to GAL in a little while but felt the need to vent .
H has increased his pursuit - yesterday he had plans to take kids to his cousins overnight for a planned Halloween party . H has been planted at my home for a awhile now . Depressed . But seemed to perk up yesterday which was nice to see . Even though I know some of it was by his own choosing still can be rough to watch .
I left work last evening . For years my usual is to call H. I have stopped this completely for months . I knew he would be gone by time I arrived home . I walked in and noticed a love poem and bracelet for me . Very sweet and thoughtful . I don’t know why I didn’t call H but I didn’t . Maybe it’s my detachment that’s kicked in . Or knowing not to jump on the rollercoaster . He asked me if I was home and noticed . I said yes and thank you it was so sweet . I don’t know what has come over me lately I just can’t get a grip . He really is trying Which is such a nice 180 on his part .The pursuit continued with frequent texts and calls from him . More talk of the grass not being so green . Missing home and me . I validate . Emailed a coach local to set up for next week .
Maybe I have detached too much ? The goal always is to have a stronger new marriage for me but the line of don’t jump at crumbs is imbedded in me now . I don’t think these are crumbs anymore.
I don’t know what to do so I’m going to do nothing and just go with the flow
you have mentioned his being depressed a few times. Is he getting any help for that? It is a very big issue that should be addressed, and seems to be a common theme among WASes.
Hi Caligirl,
Wondering if part of it is that your focus has been for so long on DBing and now that you can relax on that a bit you are letting yourself feel how ****ed up his behavior has been to you and you are scared of letting him back in and hurting you again? Again I'm a total newbie and not to the point where you are yet but I would imagine that the next steps and going through MC probably will be hard and emotional and it is totally natural that you're maybe a little hesitant and want a lot of proof that he isn't going to do this all over again if you open back up to him. I don't think you should put too much pressure on yourself but it does sound really positive, and at some point you'll have to decide to be vulnerable again with him if you want to build a new R... know we are all here for you! ((hugs))
He has not looked into getting help for depression . He has admitted he needs help .
Last night had a great GAL. Went to a concert with some friends . Best night out I have had in a long time . Much needed .
On the relationship front H said he’s going to move home . A sincere I want to move home because I love my wife and I want this marriage to work . He’s been here few weeks anyway I just haven’t brought it up or asked much about it . I guess slowly he realized the more I DB the more he saw what he was no longer going to have .
I do not know how this will end up in the future . Months , weeks or in days it could all change but the number one thing I will say that helped was this DB forum .
Wow, CG, that is great. I'm super happy for you-- feel like you are the poster child for doing DB right!!
A couple questions-- what logistical steps does he need to take to "officially" move home? Also, are there open questions you have about what caused him to move out in the first place? I'm just wondering if it would help you to feel more secure to both understand the concrete steps he's taking to commit back to the MR and living at home, and if you have lingering questions about what happened in the first place. I remember some of the posters were wondering if there was an A, and I wonder if part of you is having a hard time believing/trusting where he is right now because you still don't totally understand why he behaved the way he did. Probably all stuff best to work through in MC but might be time for you to do an internal temp check on where you are and what you want in a new R so that you can have clear goals as you move forward?
Hope you keep posting
I made a few stipulations- obviously marriage counseling was the big one . He needs to repair whatever damaging things that were said untruthful about me to his family and friends . His revision was very bad and painted me in a very awful view.
Logistically - he can move whatever he took back as he has time . I will say I’m maybe one of the few luckier ones on here . I bought our home solo 6 years ago before we were married and he would never fight me for it or have made me sell . When we split there was not much he took besides personal items .
As far as the breakdown or cause of split . I did ask . From what he says he’s a people pleaser and got to the point of just wanting to live for himself only . When his auto immune disease flairs he’s down for weeks sometimes months at a time . When he recovers he just tries to do everything he wants and doesn’t really care who he hurts. For some reason this time he got sick he just realized what he’s been doing . I gently implied it’s been going on for years . I end up full of resentment because I’m always just an after thought or not even a thought . I suggested IC to handle this on his part .
A- is there one now . No . I can tell you he will never admit to one if there was one . He did say on several occasions he wanted to be a free spirit . I have the feeling the dating world was not what he imagined as he continued to run home several times a week . Grass was not so green . The one DB technique that clearly had results not only on myself but H was GAL being a mystery . I still haven’t told him what I did. The mystery of me not sitting home like a sad puppy honestly sometimes really messed him up . To the point it was an eye opener for him to see my life didn’t stop because he walked out . I do GAL a lot and dress to impress .
Any advice from the vets on how to begin piecing or to slow down would be greatly appreciated.
Sorry if I'm stating the obvious... but there's another section on the forum dedicated to piecing with some pinned suggestions. May not be tailored to your sitch, but some general advice if you haven't read it.
Mix of odd emotions today . I’m having a hard time myself just getting back into the flow of normalcy having both of us committed to M. I became very independent over the last few months with making decisions on pretty much everything by myself and for myself . If I wanted to go GAL on a Monday I just went . If I wanted new clothes I just went shopping . If I didn’t want to talk to H I just didn’t answer phone . H did spend alot of time in and out of our home and with me . But I had let go of the I guess attachment of having a committed relationship and just lived for me and the kids . Don’t want to backslide on it but at same point being in a marriage I do have to consider H opinion on things too . Maybe it’s the unknown. Planning GAL was easy I had a few days or evenings a week open as H was very active in co parenting when split .
I’m starting to think I may need IC to just sort out some of my emotions . Being a LBS teaches you that at any moment the person you trusted the most can change their mind .
H I will say has been great over last few days . No real R talks . Just loving and committed . No confusion .
I became very independent over the last few months with making decisions on pretty much everything by myself and for myself . If I wanted to go GAL on a Monday I just went . If I wanted new clothes I just went shopping . If I didn’t want to talk to H I just didn’t answer phone.
Hi Caligirl, I hope that you will NOT let go of this independent, powerful you that makes you so happy and attracted your H back. My R is back, but I still am working to get closer to where you are emotionally. An IC sounds wise and glad to hear your H is so far trying to make the process smooth and easy.
Hi Cali,
I was going to comment to the specific question you had on how to begin piecing or to slow down. I had read your story a while back and just now reread it along with other posters’ responses.
I’m no vet. Far from a model DB’er. I think my position is of being an average, every day joe who also went down this road before. I too wondered what it would look like to be piecing. I remember coming across a post from Sandi, Blu, and joe talking about the basics and starting points of what was needed to begin piecing. At that time I didn’t think I would be piecing so I didn’t press on going through the whole list and putting it to memory but it’s here somewhere if you want to see where you line up. I went to dig a little and found under the Piecing section of the forum Steve85’s piecing thread and there is a list in RR7’s reply. One thing I believe Many posters here feel is that piecing, or successsful piecing, starts when the AP is out of the picture. Then there has to be a willingness and remorse or how else would the other person be committed. They’d need to do things that satisfies most basic requirements to piecing.
For me, my W never admitted to having an Affair but I got enough to assume the worst and I chose to move forward with her and had to decide on what forgiveness meant to me. I know my wife will never be 100% honest with me and that was a cold truth I had to come to terms with. Does that mean it was enough to quit or give up and start fresh with someone else, I am also going to see an IC about my conflicting feelings to get help for that. Ultimately it would be great if she and I got the help we need and then tackle MC together. So my heart goes out to you, I hope you find the answers you need to move forward in life, together or not.
It’s tricky because while we want to hold their feet to the fire as ppl say here, we also want to keep the road home paved smooth and not scare them off. All while keeping our boundaries and sense of self worth while what they are doing to us is so damaging in all aspects of our lives, to the way we see ourselves, them, other people. It affects the way we function, from basics like eating to waking up and sleeping. The list can go on and on...
We all have these gut feelings telling us when things aren’t right or we see there are red flags. The way your H is responding right now sounds like the effects of the distance / pursuit game. You’re now the prize because you know your worth ( but you’re still confused and rightfully so because it takes a lot of time to see things clearly) and this drives him crazy. He’s intrigued. As a man, he doesn’t want another man to be in your life so he will try to win you back to keep you. That doesn’t necessarily mean however that he’s learned from all his mistakes or that he will correct all his wrongdoings going forward. I’m not saying it can’t happen but considering the short amount of time of your sitch and how he is chasing you, I just have a hunch that he could be playing games to keep you close without doing real work to change his free spirited mentality.
I’m not trying to sound mean or unhopeful. In my sitch, I was always hopeful, upbeat, pleasant and still loving life while facing a very real and possible Divorce but I dropped the fear pretty early, I think for me because of many factors (how I was raised, religion biggest one[this world we live in is temporary , all of it, our time with one another])and I grew up in some of the worst places, homeless with a mother who was a Vietnam refugee, many times no food or running water. I had hope, still do. There were rough times though. Guess what I am trying to get at is just take caution, be patient, let him do the work. Continue to ask questions and get the help.
Don’t rush the process and be wary of having too much expectations. I hope you read Steve85’s piecing thread entirety. I don’t post often much anymore but I do read and I find help in many ppl’s posts.
I hope you understand where I am coming from with your H behavior and not give in too early or easily without fully knowing everything there is to know.
I want to comment on a couple things too. Prior to him getting back into your life, you started enjoying GAL and now it seems you are doubting your GAL... because you have to consider his feelings? This is not true. You can both GAL and live together harmoniously with respect and love for one another. Be careful of manipulation here from him. You say there is no R talk but there is commitment. To some degree I would think those two things coincide.
Does he agree to full transparency? Is he willing to stop some of the behavior you had issues with. I’m past 1 year from BD and my W and I have been trying to make this work but it’s a slow pace where I sometimes question if I still want in or if I can ever trust her again. She is in IC and I will start soon. I hope we are where we are in our current timeline for the right reasons and it’s not forced. I hope for both your sakes it’s the same for you.
When I first came here clueless to all of it, I was looking for the magic bullet to save my marriage. I was watching all sorts of videos of how to win spouse back, do x z y. I picked up on other books that went against this counter -intuitive process of DB, to stop the pursuit or trying to reason with someone who wants out. My feelings were no more important than hers. I bought into DB and stopped So DB helped me find my old self again and shift my focus. You should never stop focusing on yourself.
I don’t want to sound like a Debbie Downer but I think when you say you are having a hard time getting back to normalcy, you are trying to overlook the red flags and his past behavior because you want things to go back to normal. You have righ to have those feelings and it’ll have to be new normal hopefully with a lot of positive changes on both your parts. I also question when he is now with you that your stance has suddenly changed from happy independent to now being mindful of his opinions. Is there anything he has said to control you or the sitch? Not saying he is but it can be typical behavior to consider in these cases.
You’re doing great. Continue your GAL And patient and see how much of this is about the MR and your H finding his way home.
I'm traveling and don't have means to read/post much, but this is the thread Adam is referring to:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2832573
Hi Adam ,
Thank you for reading and posting on my journey . It's been such a great resource this forum and outlet for me .
I defintly agree with distance and pursuit . Over the last few months when I GAL H seemed to have a hard time with it . I think exactly what you said my prize just walked out the door . Last week I went out with some friends . H was quite sick that day . I offered to hire a sitter but he declined . I realized when I got into the car after 4-5 hours out I had not phoned to check on kids . I brushed it off and thought about the years I've have heard I'm overly protective or worrisome about children . He really disliked it . I drove home and walked in the door happy as ever . And truly happy I really had a great time . I walk upstairs and H is in bed crying and just broken . I was actually kind of stunned . He was just done . That's when he said he was going to move home .
I think for me I had a lot of alone time without children . It was easy to make plans knowing when I was free and he had parenting time or kids for a few days . I have never been one to spend as much time out of the home away from kids as I have over the last few months . For me this is going to be a balance .
R talks are mainly about things we are doing in future . I may have to rethink R talks because I always thought they were about us working things out or not . His confusion . Where now they seem to be more soft . Maybe 5-10 mins we will chat about something that went wrong or right . He did get me with one today . Im just still so off maybe a little short . He was out of house all day and all the phone calls and texts were started by him . He started with how he's really hopeful for us . I validated that he wants to do this right and work hard in MC. That he is scared too . Aren't we all just scared .....
I didn't ask for full transparency . Mainly because I can search his phone , emails , gps but if they want to cheat they will find a way . I could ask him for his phone and he would willing hand it to me .
Behavior he agreed even before stating he wanted to come home to change it . I don't even know if I asked . More he came to the conclusion of what in the world was I thinking . I am by far not a warden but the late nights every other day not happening ever again . Time will tell on this one .
He hasn't asked or said me for anything I can think of to control sitch. I can GAL as much as I want or don't . I am a very mindful person so it could be more me making sure it's ok doing things or feeling off about it . I am still very independent but I see your view on doing things with respect .
Today I realized this is my new normal . I do not have security in my marriage and it may come back it may not .
I will read what blu attached as a link .
You seem lik such a strong person with a lot of faith . I didn't take anything you said as mean or abrasive . I am here for help and advice . I ll take everything I can get .
Mix of odd emotions today . I’m having a hard time myself just getting back into the flow of normalcy having both of us committed to M. I became very independent over the last few months with making decisions on pretty much everything by myself and for myself . If I wanted to go GAL on a Monday I just went . If I wanted new clothes I just went shopping . If I didn’t want to talk to H I just didn’t answer phone . H did spend alot of time in and out of our home and with me . But I had let go of the I guess attachment of having a committed relationship and just lived for me and the kids . Don’t want to backslide on it but at same point being in a marriage I do have to consider H opinion on things too . Maybe it’s the unknown. Planning GAL was easy I had a few days or evenings a week open as H was very active in co parenting when split .
Cali, first congrats on getting to piecing! I never made it but those that do say it's the hardest work of all, so keep in mind you've both got a rough road ahead. Regarding your GAL, you should by all means continue to do so. I would look at this early phase as "dating" rather than resuming "being married". So if you want to go shopping then do so. Want to GAL on a Monday then go for it. You don't want to talk to H then don't answer the phone. ALL OF THAT is probably a big factor in why he wanted to recon, because he realized you were high value and he was missing out. So keep that up.
Should you consider his opinions? Well yes, but that doesn't mean you have to ask his permission every time you want to go shopping or GAL. Remember, HE needs to do the hard work to earn you back, not you. You aren't the one that left.
Thanks AS always appreciate your input
Things are holding steady . Calmness and some of the new normal setting in . I’ve read the piecing threads and started to start texting or calling just a little more . H still the main one who starts conversations. I have started to say ILY as he has been more too .
H did go out late one evening . Brought it up few days ahead of time . Just to watch some sporting event which is just fine with me . He did let me know where he would be and with who . Didn’t really feel the need to verify so I didn’t .
Weekend is almost here . I’m going to try to make some GAL plans . I’m thinking I may GAL with the kids . Feel like just loving on them extra .
Cali,
I will say that our brains work in weird ways. Now that you have him back, your brain is looking for negatives. I know how this works. I notice how well you realize what is going on and you're able to articulate it, good for you. I would go slow on the increase in "needing him" just like you are doing.
Just wanted to send some support your way!
Any advice from the vets on how to begin piecing or to slow down would be greatly appreciated.
It will take probably 3 times as long as you think. The progression isn't a straight line up, but you have to keep your eye on the overall progression.
It's okay to take your time with things. The marriage for lack of a better word has a wound. It needs time to heal. I think that should be communicated to all partners at some point.
Hi Caligirl,
You are amazing and an inspiration
Keep up having fun, loving the kids, listening to yourself. Did you guys see an MC yet? I've been listening to Esther Perel's podcast Where Do We Begin and finding it super interesting-- might be something you might like, take your mind off of your own sitch specifically and listen to themes that might resonate with you. Another suggestion in line with MW above-- just like in DB can you set little goals for yourself, maybe mini goals about how YOU are feeling as opposed to how HE's behaving like you do in the midst of DB? Then you can check in every once in awhile and see if you're making baby steps of progress.
Sending hugs!
I just got caught up on your sitch Cali! Yay for YOU! And I don't mean this in a "yay, you're piecing and everything will work out" kind of way. I mean - yay for YOU - going out and GAL, enjoying life, and doing whatever your heart desires in each moment. This way, no matter the outcome you are going to be A OK. Remember to keep the pressure off of yourself and remind yourself that you cannot change anyone but yourself. Good luck moving forward and keep that head held high!
Haven’t started MC . I wasn’t aware insurance did not cover the one I really liked . We have rather good insurance so I was a bit surprised . There is a coach local who I have emailed a few times . I took some time off at the end of the month so I’m going to see if I can go alone first . Do not want to blow my cover on here .
H has begun to read 7 principles which the phone coach from DB recommended so that for me is a great start . Recognizing that we have all of the horseman was eye opening . Stonewalling is number one on both ends for us .We have talked about love language as well .
Been going rather good last few days . H is feeling better finally. Nice to see him smile and be happy to be home . Super loving . Myself I have been a bit run down so it’s nice he’s picked up the pace helping . I’m getting better with the new normal it’s almost like the old normal just with me not feeling 100% there .
I'm really glad things seem to be turning around for you!
Keep doing what you've been doing!
Nice to hear things are going well!! Fingers crossed you get set up with a good MC-- Gottman Institute website has a directory of MCs trained in their program which might be another place to look to find someone you like who is also on your insurance! Thinking of you!
This week has been super busy . Having a hard time separating my job from home . I think my job has basically just taken the life out of me last few days . Worried as this has been a source of tension before in M. I work a high stress job that at times is very demanding . H has really been very helpful but I notice I’m different last few days . Can’t function much once I get home . This is a pattern I do not know really how to break . My job obviously pays very well and we need the income but it does take such a toll on me mentally and physically.
Give yourself a break-- you have been dealing with an incredible amount of emotional work and don't feel badly about letting H take on a bit more of the work at home. Can you schedule yourself a massage or something, or take a long lunch with a friend to get your mind off things? You deserve it! I also have a job that can be really stressful and trying to deal with both work and all the stress of H/180s etc is just a lot.
Thanks may ! Trying to take it easy . Another rough day but more positive today . I do have some GAL plans in the works ! Hopeful it will lighten up at work . Just really over worked . Nature of the job .
H increasing his time out of the house . I think he lived in a cave we called the master bedroom for weeks .He’s never been the home body ,I am . More let’s say appropriate time with friends . Watching sports . Meeting at a mutual friends house having a few beers and catching up . Better line of communication when he’s out but really I just leave him be and not smother. He’s been respectful with taking time with his friends . This is one of my 180s I want to stick . Not being clingy and allowing him to be himself . Nice to see depression lifted as he settled back into work and home life .
Marathon not a sprint for me . I think even with every positive step he makes that’s genuine I just can’t shake the fear or doubt in me . Like who was the monster for 5 months ? I almost recognized him but it wasn’t him . Crazy right ?
I will say one of the positives to come out of all of this is we have learned lines of respect and learning to understand how different we are . Allowing both of us to be more of ourselves . That me being a home body doesn’t mean he can’t have friends . Or him liking to socialize with the men doesn’t mean he loves me less .
Time will tell
Cali,
I feel you on the stressful job. Unlike you, however, for the past year my job has suffered because I can't concentrate on anything to save my life. Good job with the change-up with you and your H's time for yourselves. That respectful boundary could be a huge shift for the good of your MR. I totally understand not being able to shake the fear and doubt. As crazy as it sounds, sometimes I fear not being able to shake the fear. Such an inception-type thought! A fear within a fear haha! Glad to see you are not smothering and finding a good rhythm with your communication. Try and find somethings at home that are just for YOU. You said you're a homebody and enjoy staying in, so try something new and relaxing to try and relieve some stress!
Just updating . Today was a great though exhausting GAL day . Spent my entire day just loving on the kids . Lunch , lego place and just plain simple fun playing ! Just me and kids . I did laugh at H . He messaged me asking what I was doing and I wrote “out and about “. Oooops still got a few of those mysterious GAL techniques stuck in me . He immediately called and said I know you are out with them but what are you doing . I did tell him what we were up to , he was pleasant and calm .
Yesterday was interesting to say the least . H took me to the mountains here for a romantic dinner he planned . During the dinner I got this sense an R talk was coming . Well it came . He painted a very bad rewrite of history to his family and friends . He starting to have to explain some of it .Almost to the point I got the sense that people are starting to realize he may have been the one who was wrong or needs help . I was painted as an awful lazy mother . A verbally abusive wife who would not let him do anything . A wife who sat down and did absolutely nothing for her family but complain . So I think people now wonder why he’s so happy to be home . I have yet to speak to anyone in his family or his friends . To be truthful I don’t want to . I do not have much to say to anyone who supported his type of behavior . Who agreed with a man walking out on his wife and children . Is this wrong ???
He did ask about myself and what was said . He has no one to face . I opened up and said maybe something I should not have . I said . I choose to tell people that Im standing my ground for our marriage . To be the solid person between the two of us . To be the person I agreed to be when I married him - the for better or worse . I am not the weak person he thought of me . He at this point is just baling his eyes out . He tells me thank you this could have turned out really badly . I was thinking if I left you I would one day find the perfect person when in all reality that’s you .
Reality has really hit him of the path he took . The hurt he caused and how this really could have gone had I for 1. Not found this site and immediately started DB at that point 2. He had not been slowed down by his auto immune disease 3. Had I thrown in the towel
I had one of those moments when her family saw reality and not her version of it, and I try not to gloat, but it felt really good knowing they knew I wasn't the slug she portrayed me to be.
Good for you! I'm glad things are working out so well. Keep it up!
Any advice on how to handle the friends and family who encouraged the behavior he was taking part in ? The people who seemed to be so happy he was away from this wife who was ruining his life and spirit .....
I’d say take the high road. Anyone who truly loves him will support this choice and know it’s best, as he’s clearly happy with it. I’d probably just say something like “we were both hurting and probably said some things, but we are very happy to be working it out for our family” and leave it at that. ?
Take the high road, just like Hope said.
If they are his family, they will either see that you are not the ogre he portrayed you to be, or not. There's not much you can do about it. But remember, they are HIS family, and will likely support him no matter how wrong he was or is likely to be in the future.
As to friends who encouraged his behavior, I would just be very wary in the future. They have proven that they are not truly YOUR friends, and you can be polite and friendly without being emotionally invested in their friendship.
Hi Caligirl,
Nice on the GAL time with the kids and keeping up the focus on GAL as you move forward. Nice that he set up the romantic date and opened up to his bad behavior in terms of how he's been portraying you-- I agree with the others that taking the high road is the way to go, you've been taking the high road all along and no reason to slip off. It is his responsibility to make amends and demonstrate to you that he's worth taking back, so let him come up with ways to deal with the problems he's made for you as a couple with family/"friends". I might even explicitly ask him what HE thinks in terms of how you should deal with them, given what he's sharing, or how he might deal with them?
I think what I am struggling with is I’m having a hard time talking about anything that is or did upset me. I got real used to not putting much on his plate that involved me .
It’s almost been so calm between us it’s frightening. Not one even hint of a disagreement. But is it more that I just don’t communicate or maybe realized he just can’t handle some of it.
He doesn’t do anything that would send up red flags . If anything been much more helpful and sweet .
I’m at a place that I call “content “ but not swinging from chandeliers.
Did you guys start talking to an MC yet?
But is it more that I just don’t communicate or maybe realized he just can’t handle some of it.
Ya, my initial thought was you really need to get to a MC. If you can't communicate, it's not going to end well.
I have MC set up for next Thursday .
I think I’ve gotten to a place of being so independent with emotions I don’t even attempt to bring anything up .
Tonight I went to GAL with kids . He said something before I went . Ask if I wanted him to go . I asked if he wanted to go . He said not really . So I responded then don’t come with us . Was not a mean exchange at all . Actually an honest one . But I noticed while I was driving I don’t really even invite him anymore .
The frightening calm is nothing he does even remotely upsets me . Indifferent to almost all of it .
Sounds like you've mastered the detaching... and he's going to need to really work to win you back. How are you feeling about him these days? Have you thought about what you would want in terms of a new MR with him?
I feel ok . I just don’t let much he does effect me the way it used to . He was out pretty much all weekend doing planned GAL. One which I purchased for him . Mainly I just do my own thing if he wants to go or spend time with me he’s got to put the work in .
I still have not made any decisions regarding his family and friends . Half of me says go to events . Half says I don’t really like these people nor do they care for me so I shouldn’t .
I totally get it, especially about the family and friends. Life is short and there is no reason to spend time with people who are jerks and/or who bring you down unless you have to. Maybe there will be a time when you're OK with it but I don't think you should force yourself to spend time with people who aren't worth your time and energy, especially right now when you have a lot on your plate between work, kids, and figuring out R with H!
He rementioned the family gathering this upcoming weekend . Almost as a reminder that we are going . I know he wants me to go to his sisters . I just sat there like a deer in headlights trying not to blurt out every emotion I had on it . I’m actually laughing this am about how bad I just sat there and said nothing (like frozen) . He looked at me all confused . I was saved by a child needing a potty break .
Family is harder to skip out on than friends... in the long run they'll always be there and dealing with them now with your detached/friendly demeanor might be perfect. Can you go just for a short time to be fun and friendly and then escape if you need to?
I am a bad procrastinator when it comes to making decisions I don’t want to . H asked if I was going to holiday I just said I didn’t know yet . At this point he has caught on to my deer in head lights reaction .
All has been rather calm still . Got a few days booked up for GAL in upcoming weeks .
Well, I definitely don't think you need to rush into any decisions. He's the one that caused all of this and it would be nice if he worked on a solution!
Was it today you guys had the first MC appointment? Hoping that went/goes well and maybe this can be something you discuss with the therapist? Do you feel secure/far along enough in your R/piecing that you can tell him how you feel about it? Eventually, you'll need to be able to tell him this kind of stuff and he will need to take responsibility for his part in creating the situation, and help find a solution... not sure if you're there quite yet but feels like you are bearing the brunt of his decision to badmouth you to his friends/family, and he should really be the one to come up with a solution (which might be doing your own holiday this year!!)
MC was ok . Basic start of seeing where we go wrong . Explaining traits and what each other sees as a healthy M .
I spoke to H about why I am not comfortable going to family events yet or ever . It really is about my own well being . I do not want to surround myself with people who do not care for me and have some harsh opinions of me .
Working on just being able to open up but being accountable for my choices. He can go to enjoy time with friends or family but I do not need to . I also feel a bit of tough love is in need . He broke this he needs to mend it and work on me being made more comfortable or go alone .
Good for you!! That sounds excellent. How did he respond when you told him how you felt?
He asked a few questions . Things were said to me when we first split about an older child I have from my first marriage . Mainly his sister said harsh and unkind things about him . He’s 15 and H had almost raised him with me . H was unaware that they were said to me up until yesterday.The things said about myself I can let go but not a child . H suggested I call and hash it out nicely with them . That is not me nor will it ever be . The line was clearly drawn by them when they all thought he was SO right for getting up and leaving . Now I just won’t even address them . I’m not mad or angry. Let’s just say completely detached
H suggested I call and hash it out nicely with them . That is not me nor will it ever be . The line was clearly drawn by them when they all thought he was SO right for getting up and leaving . Now I just won’t even address them . I’m not mad or angry. Let’s just say completely detached
Exactly!
It would make things a lot easier on your H if you and his sister just sorted things out, wouldn't it?!
I think being detached is the right approach also. It leaves open the possibility for his sister to extend an olive branch. If not, well, so be it. Detaching is basically the textbook way to deal with difficult people.
Agree that detachment is the right approach. if *he* wants to talk to his sister on your behalf and let her know how unacceptable it is to talk badly about you or your child, he can feel free. But it shouldn't be your responsibility. (Also, that is terrible that his sister would talk like that about a child!! I'm totally on your side on this.)
So I ended up going yesterday for brunch . H was clearly upset that I wasn’t going to attend . He was very understanding but really wanted me to go and not do things apart . First time in months I’ve seen him frustrated at something I would or wouldn’t do . H amped up his time with me and has been really trying to make amends . Time is my love language. He knows this .I saw this as an olive branch from him so I took it . I have to give a little .The line by me was clearly drawn though . I said hello and goodbye . Kept to myself and only spoke to people who had no part in anything . Overall it was a good time and some quality time with H. I didn’t speak with his sister even though she tried . I was nice but just moved along .
Good for you. Sounds like you handled it marvelously.
Hi Caligirl, just checking in! How are you doing?
Hi May
Things are going ....
Thanksgiving we spent with my family , had a great time . I did spend a night at his sisters over holiday . I kept my distance . Hello and goodbye. H went to a family birthday party . I declined and went to visit my sister . Clearly noticed by his family I will not just be the way I was . The line was drawn and I’m not going back .
Few sessions of marriage counseling. Nothing really to report there . Basically he made a lot of mistakes and admitted them . I’m terrible at admitting when I’m wrong but what I’m trying is to stick to my 180s. H has made some random last minute plans with the guys here or there . I used to give him a lot of grief . Now I say ok have a great time . It seems to help . H gives me a lot of good feedback when he feels free to spend some guy time with no pressure. It’s helped me be able to do what I like too without feeling guilty like I used too .
H has been noticing many things he took for granted and pointing them out . Like his blinders are lifted . Sometimes he will say I can’t believe you do all that and I didn’t notice . H is planning more dates and trying to spend time with me . He really can be just a sweetheart most of the time .
A few bumps with his mood . Stress that he wasn’t feeling well . I DB the crap out of him for a day or two . He apologized and said he was sorry for being moody and cold .
hi Cali,
Sounds like things are going well... nice to see the 180s are sticking... and that it is bringing you to a place of better communication, you're released from guilt of GALing, he's really working on the R too. And I love that you were able to drop back into a couple days of DBing and it worked! (Feels like a diet!) Super interesting.
Do you guys have your plans worked out for Christmas?
We will do our usual family tour of houses for Christmas . He did go to a friend thing this weekend . I opted out and GAL’d. Had a great time too .
It is odd though at times still to look at him and realize how confused he was . Even he says things like “ I don’t know what I was thinking “.
He walked in Sunday and out of now where said how lucky he is to have me. ( secretly I wanted to smack him )
He walked in Sunday and out of now where said how lucky he is to have me. ( secretly I wanted to smack him )
Lol!!!
I finally finished reading this entire thread. Congrats on dbing so well. How did your H end up handling his depression?
He didn’t really handle his depression it magically has lifted since he moved home .
Just a quick post .
H told me few days ago it’s scary that I don’t react anymore . He’s waiting for a fight that never comes . I’m wondering if I’ve fallen into either just not caring about what he does . Almost like I’m at peace with his huge flaws or is it I’m just really starting to not care .
Hi CG
So good to hear from you!
What do you think would be the difference between being at peace with his flaws or not caring? Being at peace with them is like still loving him in spite of his flaws (or flaws and all) and not caring is like you don't really love him anymore?
Does his behavior affect you negatively?
Hope you had a great Christmas