I can't believe it's been a year since my last post (linked here:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2814298&page=7, I can't get back into that account hence why I am now 44tries
2)--I can't believe it's been a year since that part of my story. But here I am back again, and I must say I am so sorry that I ever left
It has been a whirlwind and I really missed the grounding of this community and suffered greatly for it. I think it should be noted that despite coming here during the darkest times of my life, returning to it feels like a comfort that brings me all kinds of positive feelings. So thank you to all of the wonderful people here.
So, now for my update. (Deep breath). From my last post through the end of last year, I kept putting to practice everything I'd learned and W and I slowlyyy gained steadier and steadier ground. We took a trip for New Years that I will never forget and was I think the best trip we've taken to date. It wasn't absolutely perfect, we weren't head over heals back in love, but we had a great time together and there weren't any arguments or conflicts. After that, things got crazy as I moved into phase two of my degree program and we prepared for our international move back home. We moved at the end of February and bought a house in April. This was very exciting and we were both feeling good about the future, or at least I thought so. But I was completely overwhelmed throughout this time. I was drowning in schoolwork while we tried to move our lives from one continent to another. W thought I should have taken time off and claimed to have told me this. From the day we returned from the New Years trip until May, I didn't have a single day where my plate wasn't packed full and all I could do was focus on keeping moving. Then in late May, when we had finally settled into the house and established a new routine, I decided to go home to my parents' house for a month as they hired me to assist in their major renovation. The pay covered my fall tuition and I discussed it with W, she wasn't thrilled but said it made sense and I should go. I really don't know what she truly wanted. We talked every day and nothing negative really happened during that time. But she found out during that time that she would need to leave for two months beginning in August for a training course a few states away. Suddenly, our summer together was looking real short and we already had three weeks worth of family coming to visit scheduled (both hers and mine, at separate times). It was fun, but exhausting, and then, in the middle of all that, my grandfather was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. I ended up taking two weekend trips to see him and my family and say goodbye. All of this took a toll, mainly in pushing the MR itself down the priority list, and I believe this is where the focus started slipping and some of those old MR 1.0 habits returned. No real symptoms yet, though.
Flash forward to today, her time at the training course is reaching an end. We had a huge road trip planned after her graduation, where we would camp for 10 nights and see some bucket list places on our way home. We spent a very large amount of time and money planning this trip, which also encompasses her birthday and our anniversary. I packed everything ahead of time into the car and sent her on her way in August. The first few weeks were hard and we really missed each other. So much so, that she requested I visit for Labor Day Weekend, no matter that it was a $500 plane ticket! This was probably the peak of where our relationship made it. I felt positive, I felt like she was genuinely invested and trying, and had pretty good feelings about me. The main thing that has still been missing all this time is the passion. Her feelings really only are trickling back very slowly. We have had sex once through all of this, in July. She initiated it and I was very pleasantly surprised. It was okay, not really truly passionate, because she even said she "was trying to show me affection". I actually took this as a huge act of love and investment in the relationship because she was trying despite the "feeling" not being totally there. I think this is something Sandi views as critical. I was hopeful everything was trending in the right direction. By the time I visited for Labor Day, she kept saying how she wished she had known she could go home instead and would have preferred that. I felt a bit insulted as I had put in the effort to make the travel and now her attitude wasn't great. We had fun for the most part, but we did get in one argument. She had begun to make friends there and was hanging out with them more. She introduced me and we did a few things together. But one night I was sick and she said she would get me some water from the vending machine downstairs. She was gone for 45 minutes. I knew she had stopped to chat with her friends who were hanging out outside. I got very angry; it was triggering for me. She was deceptive in saying she was going to do something nice for me, but had an ulterior motive and was not up front about it. I laid into her when she returned despite telling myself over and over to remain calm. She understood and apologized and even cuddled me (she has cuddled me almost every night in the past year despite lack of sex). But this is where the seed was planted for an ugly weed that has now completely taken over.
Despite her being very up front about her new friends and what they do together, I just started feeling uneasy. She would always tell me where she was and when she got home. We video chatted every single day. But she started staying out for hours, through dinner until 10 or 11pm, even 2am on the weekends, drinking beer with this group. Everyone away from their families with nothing else to do, I guess that became their priority. Well, I was bothered. Right or not, I couldn't help the awful feelings it gave me. One night she didn't text or call at all and I fell asleep. When I woke up at 4am and saw I had heard nothing, I had a full on breakdown/panic attack. When she called the next morning, totally normal and cheery, it was surreal. I told her I had worried and she said she was sorry, she didn't want to wake me up, I could have called. I can remember a few mornings I was physically shaking as we texted good morning because I just had these bad feelings. One night she video called me a little before 10pm, saying she was in bed and going to sleep early. Obviously I saw her in bed on the call and had no reason to doubt what she said, but I couldn't push out the thought that as soon as she hung up, she jumped up to go hang out outside with her friends! I felt like a crazy person and I took it out on her. I criticized and made negative comments about the drinking and just made it known I was upset and didn't like it. I am banging my head against a wall thinking back to this. My emotions got out of control. But she only got more and more annoyed and didn't seem to care that I was hurting. Finally, I asked her how she couldn't care that I have hurt and do not feel safe or like I can fully trust her. Her response was that she cares, but it's hard to fully care when you are unhappy. And then came bomb drop #3.
3rd time in three years now, we are back to this. She is unhappy and miserable in her life. She thinks staying in our family will make her want to kill herself (!!! is all I can really say about that). She is not attracted to me and feels like I am just a friend. She is very sad because we have been together a long time and built a life, but she can't go on. I have heard it all before! I am at my wit's end. I am devastated all over again. She cancelled our trip, told me not to come at all to her graduation, and she will drive home alone over two days with minimal stops. She said she wants a divorce, but also said she has "no idea how to even do that". She wants me to move out, but says she will still financially support me. I have no idea what to think. I feel this is all my fault. I abandoned my DB principles and let things backslide, compounded by becoming crazy and worried by her behavior while away. My GAL has fallen on its face since we moved here. I have poured my soul into our house, building furniture, fixing problems, trying to make everything perfect. But I am like a hermit, especially since she has been gone. Sometimes I don't leave the house for days at a time. I haven't made a single friend here that isn't a coworker of my W. I keep saying I will join hockey and haven't. Same with the gym.
The upside is I have not forgotten everything I learned. I told her I respect her choices and understand. There was no begging or resistance from me. I have not contacted her, but she has texted this morning. I know she will do the same old thing where she is the friendly WAW. Still wants to talk about her day and the weather and keep me on for all that stuff. Then again, I have thought I knew a lot of things the past few days and she's proved me wrong. She doesn't hate me, doesn't have any reasons for her sudden change of heart. Claims she was "giving it the summer to see how she feels" and now summer is over. She claims I was gone a lot (true, see above) and that she preferred it and "it was more work but she was okay with it". The one thing she has said over and over is how I am not fun and she is not interested in the things I talk about. Imagine that; she is divorcing me because my conversations are uninteresting! I know what you're probably all thinking, and I'm thinking it too. I don't want to believe it, and I have ZERO tangible evidence, but I am too smart to say another A is anything other than highly likely. I do know she has not had any inappropriate contact over the past year, until she left (since then I obviously just don't know since I'm not there). Old OM seemed out of the picture pretty quickly last summer. There has been no sneakiness, no hesitation about my having access to anything. I am crushed, guys. I am going to GAL immediately. But I do not know how to approach the logistics. I feel so much deja vu and a tsunami of dread hits me thinking about the in house separation from last year. W has made it clear she is afraid of being "sucked back in" if I stay in the house. She said it will be 3 months, 5 months, and then we do it all over again. Last time I was in a foreign country, now I have much more freedom. But I don't want to do something rash or stupid. She will probably be home next Wednesday. Please help, I'm humbly ready for all your 2x4s.
Dude, I’m in the same boat. Just experienced BD #4. That’s 4 bombs in about 6-7 years. All you can do is reinvest in the DB principles and detach from her.
I know how bad it hurts. I thought my W and I were making great progress as well.
Thanks for your support. It helps to know that I am not the only one with a serial bomber. It's so painful; feeling like you have a bit of stability and momentum, only to have it all dashed AGAIN. I will say my detachment is like a muscle memory. Much easier getting back to it than before. I know I can face the road ahead no matter what happens, but there is just no way take away that immense pain.
Stay strong, man. I will follow your sitch.
44 sorry that you are back again. I suspect your instincts were right and an OM2 appeared in the friends circle. I’ve been around here enough to know once the grass is greener syndrome kicks and they think the lbs is the problem they will not truly return until if and when they hit rock bottom. I wouldn’t blame yourself, joining a basketball team wouldn’t likely have changed anything. It’s good that you stuck to DB and didn’t beg or plead with her. Let her do all the heavy lifting and make it clear ONE time that this isn’t what you want but you won’t stand in her way and that you have zero intentions of being friends in the future.
Good luck and stay strong!
That really stinks man. In my brutality honest opinion. I feel you should just let her go. DB like mad and focus on yourself. This is the third time this has happened. You are experiencing a ton of severe emotional damage and distress because of this repetitive situation. Maybe its time to just move forward and let her be?
I know that anxious feeling well. My exww was doing the exact same partying, staying out late and literally telling me she didnt care that it hurt me. She was banging her boss. I let her go. We divorced and I dont have to deal with that level of emotional abuse and distress or anxiety ever again. It hurt but the end result is that I am secure in myself and I can regulate my life exactly how I want.
I am still sad about my family ending. However, I am in a much better place emotionally now that I only have myself and my relationship with my kids to manage.
Thanks, LH19. I agree it is hard to believe my feelings came out of nowhere. But at the same time, I have struggled with healing from the A. It can still blindside me by popping into my head unannounced and cause that searing pain again. I have wondered what to expect of myself in this regard and hope I am not just a traumatized, paranoid person. I am going to find an IC locally.
The important part I think is the need to make clear is my zero intentions of being friends. She never seems to get that. About an hour ago, she video called me to tell me she was eating a chicken sandwich and taking a nap.
Wow, it sounds like you've been living with an unsatisfying relationship for a really long time.
In my brutality honest opinion. I feel you should just let her go. DB like mad and focus on yourself. This is the third time this has happened. You are experiencing a ton of severe emotional damage and distress because of this repetitive situation. Maybe its time to just move forward and let her be?
That's what I was thinking, too. Whether it's her (having another affair, drinking) or you (paranoia, no social life) or some combo (lack of love, spending time together)--you two didn't work out--three times! The next steps are similar (GAL, detach, self-improvement) either way so you don't need to decide now.
Thank you guys for your thoughts. You are right, it has been an unsatisfying relationship for a long time. And it is very exhausting. I am tempted to just give up. But I love my W deeply and I know she loves me deeply as well, it's just not complete for some reason. I am actually very happy with my life overall, outside of this issue. Don't get me wrong, it is a very painful problem, but my W tries hard to show me love in a lot of the ways that she can. I guess I would say our "familial" love is very strong.
I can relate to everything you wrote, 44.
I too feel like giving up. I've been working on convincing myself to just let her go this time. The see-saw is exhausting.
That doesn't mean I don't love W. She just has issues that keep surfacing. I also have my own issues as well. The difference between her and I is that I'm willing to look at myself and work on things. She can't/won't acknowledge her stuff and projects it on to me.
I vacillate between missing her like crazy, and feeling excited for a new beginning.
Thornton, this is exactly my experience. I feel for you so much and am sorry you are in it too.
W called me again on her lunch. She texted me last night and this morning, about nothing. I didn't respond. After the call, she texted me asking why I hadn't responded to her messages. I told her this: "W, it's difficult when you tell me want a divorce but want to keep chatting like normal. I'm sorry, I need space. Hope you understand."
Her response, which came in a flurry over 5 minutes time was: "Okay." "I understand but figured we could maintain communication because we are still intertwined in our lives." "But if you don't think the same then I respect that." "I will try not to call and text you." I didn't respond.
I hope I did the right thing. I found a therapist that looks very promising and called the office. Waiting to hear back and hopefully schedule an appt to begin IC next week.
You did the right thing, 44. It’s all a ploy to keep you there just in case.
My W isn’t even talking to me which has truly blown my mind considering how this has played out.
She dropped the bomb and I didn’t freak out or chase her at all. I haven’t reached out or called either. I’m simply say hi to her when I get home from work and goodnight when I go to bed. That’s it.
But she has painted a picture in her mind about me (just like all the previous times she’s left) that firmly places her in the victim role. She then uses that mentality to leave and become a “survivor” which is kind of comical to me considering there was no blow up or anything like that. It’s downright silly.
Trying my best to just let her go.
44,
That was an almost perfect response! I would have left off the “I hope you understand”.
Now stick to your guns. Great job!
Thanks for the encouragement, guys. Really makes me feel better. It is SO hard to say no to the communication because like you said, Thornton, your W isn't talking to you. It feels better to still get random messages than nothing at all. But you are right, it is just keeping me on the line. I am trying to drop the rope as fast as possible. I am sticking to my guns. Her birthday is Monday...that is going to be really hard.
Goods news, the therapist called me back and I am REALLY excited because I think she is going to be a great fit. Bad news is she's going on vacation next week and is very booked in general so couldn't give me a confirmed appt until Oct 14th! She said there is a good chance someone will cancel and I can go the week before. Still a long wait and I thought about trying someone else, but I feel really good about her and have waited this long so, so be it. It kind of freaked me out though, I had to provide all my W's info including SSN for insurance purposes. I have not discussed this with her at all, so it made me feel like I was going behind her back. But they are my benefits as a military spouse so I'm not sure what she could say about it. Someone tell me if I'm doing something wrong there.
Thornton, I know it all too well man. There is just nothing you can do about that and she is on her own growth path. She just isn't there yet to be able to see that dynamic. You are doing the right thing and fighting in the right direction.
44 I am so sorry this has happened to you. My XW put me through living hell the first time she had an affair. The second time she told me ILYBNILWY I knew that for my own emotional, physical, and mental health I had to completely let her go. I came from the point that I needed to protect myself and my D. To do that I needed to believe in my heart and soul that it was over and work to improve everything about my life with no thought that I am doing it to win back XW. What I have found is that I truly believe I deserve someone who loves me as much as I love them and if I can't get that then they don't deserve me. I continue to work on me for me and if for some reason down the road the XW believes she made a mistake and has worked on improving herself as much as I am working on improving me then I might consider trying to reestablish a connection. It would be difficult because I am completely detaching for my own sanity.
Reading through what you wrote I would say by my definition of love, she has none for you. Not only does she not love you but she has no respect for you. You deserve love and respect.
Appreciate your thoughts, rooskers; really. Everyone here helps to get me to see really clearly her lack of respect. That's the thing, no matter if she may try at times and keep going while the road is fairly easy, she doesn't take care of the MR. She treats it like she has no responsibility and whatever will be will be. Doesn't care to draw a line and act like a married woman. Everything is at her own convenience and the whim of her feelings. I don't think she understands that her lack of true commitment and treating the MR like trash is the reason she feels the way she does. She wonders desperately why her feelings just aren't there; well how can you have strong feelings about something you value as much as a piece of dirt? And I have enabled it by allowing it to go on. But BD came because I fought for it. Maybe I didn't do the best job and should have been stronger, but I made it clear I could not go on with this treatment. Not being able to trust her, not feeling valued, I could not take it anymore. So her response was BD. Cool.
Today is not good. Somehow woke up crying and haven't stopped. I know this rollercoaster all too well. W lasted about 4 hours yesterday before I got another text after telling her I need space. Of course the bills just had to be paid right then. I took her bank info to set up payment on a new card and simply said it was done. Then she sends a message "I will respect what you said but I am sorry I cannot not check on you. Please let me know what you need or what I can do." This is referring to the fact that my grandfather will pass any time now. I did not respond. But I wanted to scream, "uh yeah you could be a W that isn't walking out on me AGAIN, on the eve of my grandfather's death that you knew was coming". God, I'm so angry you guys.
I’m right there with you, 44. Let all those feelings out.
It’s crazy how selfish people can be with ZERO regard for how other people feel. Especially people that have loved them, warts and all.
I think you deserve better, 44.
You said it perfectly. Give them all the love in the world and this is what you get back.
You are right, I do deserve better. So do you.
Just got the news my grandfather passed this morning. I don't know if I should tell W or stay dark.
I’m so sorry man. That’s always rough when a loved one passes.
Regarding W, what’s the point in telling her anything? Are you expecting or hoping for a certain response?
No, but she has asked almost daily for an update. She knew him. Just somehow feels wrong not to say anything.
Yeah then let her know. Just as long as you don’t expect a certain reaction. Keep detaching 44. This is going to take some time.
Yea, I don't need any reaction from her. I already know it will be the same as yesterday, trying to "be there for me" when she has done nothing but the opposite. In reality, it will only make me feel worse. I don't even feel like telling her, maybe I'll wait for the moment. Detach, detach, detach...thanks for the support.
Still thinking...moving on is the strongest thing I can do. I have the right to be p!ssed. I should be. Taking this at face value and walking away as fast as possible is what any respectable person would do...And I have lost respect. I am strongly considering "throwing in the towel". This doesn't mean I forever close the door on possible R, but I just...move on.
What if I apply for jobs immediately? What if next week I have an interview scheduled Thursday morning in the big city and I leave Wednesday night before she gets back? The dogs would be fine, she would immediately assume responsibilities once she got home. I could stay in the city for a few nights until the weekend. Just tell her I have an interview Thurs and will be back on the weekend. Reconnect with all my old friends there, network and spread the word I'm looking for a job. Meet some new people as well and get a feel for what life would be like back there. I could easily squeeze out a few nights of extreme GAL and probably have a blast. I won't lie and say I don't get a little excited about the thought of moving back to the city I love and my old 'bachelor' lifestyle. I am still young, picking up right where I left off would be a lot easier than I think. All said and done, if I don't get the job (or the interview in the first place), I come home and no damage done other than letting W know I'm serious about dropping the rope.
I know she would be shocked by this. I mean I would shock myself. But maybe that is the point? It would be so empowering. And honestly confirm to me that I will be just fine if that is the direction it goes. I have made up my mind that I will not get sucked back into this unless she is on her knees begging. That would be another shocker, I can't even imagine it. But if there is any hope of avoiding this situation again, I can accept nothing less. That would be the only sign she has re-found some of her respect (and feelings).
Am I crazy? I don't want to rush anything or make any firm decisions. But this would just be a feeler for my options. No harm aside from probably shocking and infuriating W. Someone talk me down from the ledge.
First things first...do not "assume" anything when it comes to your wife. Do not leave those dogs alone. Find someone to take care of them or put them in a kennel and let her know about it.
What you are suggesting is kind of like playing games and this isn't the way to get her attention. The best thing you can do is schedule your interviews and advise her of the dates or you can advise her that you will be out of town for a few days. What you are suggesting is something a MLCer might do and you wouldn't like it if she did that to you. Don't lower yourself to her level, rise above her behavior, etc.
Actions speak louder than words, be the responsible adult here. Yes, you can go out and have some fun/GAL time, but go about leaving home the proper way, i.e., find someone to take care of the dogs, notify her about the dogs and yes, if you have an interview or just plan to be out of town tell her.
Shocking her w/your "new" behavior will not wake her up. She has to figure things out for herself and on her timeline, not yours.
Great words of wisdom, job, thank you. I definitely do not want to lower myself to any level. To be clear, I would not leave my dogs without arranging it with her. I would never do that. I just meant telling her I would need to leave for the interview and confirming she would be home. They would only be left for a few hours in this case.
Anyway, you are right, it is probably too rash. I just feel like such a failure that I have lost all her respect and attraction and somehow still haven't managed to gain it back. I must be doing something wrong.
You need to live your life, find things to do and go about your business the proper way. If you want to do things, do them for yourself and not for a reaction out of her. If there are things that you need to change about yourself, then by all means work on them...but make them a permanent part of your life and not to get a reaction out of her.
You are frustrated because things aren't turning about...it's understandable...but it takes a lot of time. What has happened didn't happen over night. It took years in the making and it's going to take a lot of time and effort on her part to grow up and want to return to you and the relationship. That's why it is very important to detach lovingly.
There is nothing wrong w/going out of town for a few days, but go about it the right way. You don't have to tell her everything you are planning to do, but you do need to advise her that you will be gone. It's just common courtesy.
When your wife sees that you are going about living your life and not watching her or attempting to get a rise out of her, she just may become curious enough to want to be w/you and do things w/you. You have to start at the very beginning when you first saw her and began dating. One step at a time and hopefully she will sense that the pressure is off of her and you are actually focusing on something else and not her.
You are not a failure, you are learning how to live again and that's why you are here...to learn and bounce things off of the posters.
Well...8 hours until the flight I was supposed to be on to see my W for her birthday/graduation. I still feel so angry. I don't know if that will go away this time.
I just want to erase her from my life, and that makes me sad.
I totally understand, 44. I'm in the same position.
I just want to be able to let her go. The hard part for me is letting go of all our shared dreams. We used to talk about retirement and all the cool things we wanted to do and explore. And now when I think about those things, it just brings sadness.
We really are living the same thing. It's so hard to let it all go. We just became first time homeowners and love our new house, were excited about our future in this new city. This was the next step and it's like she was right there until she wasn't. Now, it's just heartbreak all over again in a spot that was just barely starting to heal. All future dreams dashed.
I think I just can't be afraid to lose her this time. I am going to have to show some of my anger and call her out on her treatment. Thankfully, I can go back to all of the wonderful advice Sandi has given me on this topic.
I don't think she has solidified anything in her mind. Her sister told me she mentioned we were having problems and said something like sometimes its best not to do it together but that she didn't know what will happen. Last year, she told her family we were done. But I'm not reading too much into it.
I was expecting to hear she had a new travel buddy to drive home with or a place to stay on the way (since I'm expecting an A). She said she's leaving immediately after the graduation tomorrow and will get home as fast as possible. Again, no use speculating what that means. Maybe there is no A and she BDed me because she didn't like me calling her on her behavior. This makes me scared to do it again. But I know that I have no choice. If she can't handle having some semblance of standard demanded of her then she can have her wish to be on her own. Realistically, she probably can't and so be it.
I'm spinning today and I know it. She is going to be back before I can blink and I need to have all my ducks in a row.
Every time my W has left me has been when we were close to buying a home. She once left me 6 months after we bought a new home, I was gutted.
Hang in there 44, and never react when you feel emotionally charged.
Thanks, T. We are exactly 6 months from purchase. Gutted, indeed. I still almost can't even believe it...how confused must she be to cheat on me, BD me, decide to stay, BUY A HOUSE, and then BD again...?? She made such big efforts to say how the house is OURS, our family, our home. Now of course it's when am I moving out.
I have been reading a lot in the boundaries thread. Lots of great stuff I need to hear. And I know, I won't react when I feel emotionally charged. I left our conversation earlier, still staying mostly dark. I just don't have it in me right now to even talk to her.
Wow. Are we married to the same woman? All logic and decency is completely gone. Stay dark if you are emotional right now. In fact, that’s how my W came back every time, I simply go NC and she will reach out in a few months.
I hope I’m strong by the time she reaches out next time.
Sure seems like it, huh? That is exactly the same for me. As soon as I went dark and GALed, she was completely turned around. Not enough to immediately recommit, but her decision to leave was stopped in its tracks. Now, like you, I wonder what I am going to do if (when) that happens.
Thinking back about the house, I realized that I was wrong about her totally "sliding back" last time. That was how she told me she wanted to recon, she said we were going to buy a house and it would be "our" house. Obviously, it needs to be more of a conversation, but that was the moment she recommitted. I just feel so discouraged that we are back to this. And that I could have been so dumb not to see it coming.
Yeah I get it, you feel shocked but if you view it from an outsiders perspective, it’s obvious that another BD was likely. Did you guys ever work through your previous breakups? Or did you just get back together and sweep things under the rug while you enjoy another honeymoon period? I think that’s been W and I’s pattern.
We never had another honeymoon period. Things got better, sure. And I worked on me and what I had learned through DB and I think it helped. Our MR was better throughout last year than the year before prior to the BD. But my W really prefers the rug method. My biggest problem was not only not acting like a married woman, but not acting like a married woman who cheated a year ago. She did not become an ally to me during my healing, did not offer me reassurances. I don't know what I was supposed to do about this, but it was a consistent source of further insult and pain. Maybe I was being too needy on the inside (I didn't voice too much about the issue because it never ended well. Again, voicing it loud last week is what caused BD).
I woke up to a text from W that said "I'm not looking forward to driving." Why is my mind always blown? I am feeling hopeless we could ever be on the same page. I could be driving for her, we could be taking our anniversary trip. I am having deja vu again, except it's not. I remember writing something very similar last year when she complained about a consequence of HER choice.
It’s crazy-making, isn’t it?
You are like me in that you are trying to use logic and reason to figure this mess out. Unfortunately, your W is basing decisions in her emotions and how she’s feeling at the time. It’s impossible to understand her mindset during this time.
I know. You are right, thanks for the reminder.
I am trying to establish my boundaries for when she returns home. I feel furious I have been here holding down the fort, missing her and counting the days, only to have them finally wind down and find I now dread her return. I don't know what to expect or accept during this time. I have no idea what she is going to say or do. I keep wondering if I made the right choice to break the friendliness after BD. I want to (HAVE to) find a position of strength and whatever I have learned told me I had to take that stand. I would never had done that last BD. Now, I want to keep making the right decisions from the get go.
Will she say she is moving to the guest bedroom? Will she try to tell me to? First BD (which really was a bomb that didn't actually go off) she never left the bed. Second BD (aka A) she said it was no longer "appropriate" to sleep in the same bed. Really she wanted privacy to text OM all night. Now, don't know if there is an A, don't even really know how serious she is, no intel. I cannot prepare for or prevent the gutted feeling I will get when she tells me she wants IHS again. This is what confirmed to me not to remain friendly, because I know I would have just watched my every word and took the pressure off to warm her up. Then she would get home and I would be so hopeful. Then she would still say she wants IHS and I would be devastated. I cannot put myself through that emotional trauma.
So, now what? I will not move into the basement if she tries to go that route. There is a tiny guest room down there with a new, comfortable bed that she can happily use if she no longer desires to share a room/bed. I have to remind myself that this is my home as much as hers, despite her role as the financial provider. I don't know why I struggle with trying to DB without just pretending this is all okay. What is the most mature, calm-assertive way to express my anger and show strength? What kinds of boundaries should I be enforcing NOW? I feel like if my boundary is 'I feel disrespected by the lack of communication prior to a bomb drop on my MR and I need an MR partner who is committed to staying and working on things', then right now I better be enforcing it by filing for D.
W seemed pretty open about what she did for her birthday. She has never become sneaky about having beers and dinner with her group. And she never did the period of complete distancing that happened with the last A. Literally overnight, at the time she first cheated, she became a mute, lifeless, hostile rock. None of that now, at least until I instigated NC.
I'm starting to doubt there is an A. I will know when she gets here whether she goes to her phone. I really am trying not to even think about until then. But it almost makes me more scared if there is no A. Like she really is that miserable and must be serious to do this after everything. Why am I scared at all... no fear, detach....
I am aware of how much wiser I am than I was last time, but here I am still spinning just the same.
44, as you know I’ve been here a while and my W seems very similar to yours. Have you considered she may have issues that have nothing to do with you?
Perhaps your W has commitment issues? Maybe she’s depressed and acting on her emotions?
My W certainly has her own issues and had a tough childhood. I think that plays a big role in the grand scheme of things.
Yes. In fact, I do not really believe that I am the reason for her unhappiness. She definitely has her own issues and also more than one instance of trauma that she has never really dealt with. She is very closed off and there are things she won't talk to ANYONE about. It does play a big role, maybe even the biggest, but I can't control it. The best thing I can do now is lead by example and get my own IC.
So I knew this would happen. Obviously W changed plans and is driving home. But she failed to book a hotel. She was within one hour of arriving at her stop and still hadn't booked it. Not my problem, but I knew she would come crawling wanting me to do it. "The app isn't working, I have bad service". Hint hint. I told her at this point the price isn't changing within the hour and she can book it when she arrives.
She also said she didn't want to unload all our gear. Again, should have thought about that before you declined to have my help. I validated. In response she says I'm sorry I didn't mean to bother you with it and frustrate you. What?? I forgot about all the weird games and tests she is going to throw. Deep breaths.
W came home yesterday. First she gave me a hug and said she was sorry about my grandpa. Then she stripped off her clothes and got in the bath. Last BD, during the A, she immediately would no longer allow me to see her naked. I guess this makes sense, if she was "with" someone else.
She read aloud "to herself" every text she received since she got here. I think it is clear she does not want me to think there is another A. But she could just have gotten a lot smarter. She has not taken her ring off like last time. She did not bring up any R talk. She wanted to order take out and watch TV. She got a pillow from the guest room and went to sleep right there on the couch.
I have no idea when she is going back to work. She had this week and next off as leave, which probably hasn't changed. I really do not know anything.
Hmmm, I'm skeptical that she is overcompensating by trying to prove she's not having another A. Time will tell.
It's important for you to "act as if" you are doing well and moving on with life. Don't be a jerk but don't follow her around the house like a sad puppy either.
Get out of the house and GAL as much as you can while she's there. She might wonder what you are up to.
And lastly, avoid R talks for now. That will only serve to reinforce how she's currently feeling. If she starts a R talk, just listen and validate.
I am skeptical too. Last time she was SO bad at it, I almost think she wanted me to know. Time will tell indeed.
All excellent tips, Thornton, and you nailed it. That should be my plan right there. I can certainly avoid R talks, my confusion is how to keep consistent about not being okay with all this. I said I wanted space while she was gone. Now, I don't want to undermine that. But I also know I can't just launch into an R talk about how I'm so angry with her behavior. I don't want to be the wet noodle anymore.
Like you said, GAL and don't be around is the easiest. My W will be so nosy. She already asked me why I didn't say I was going to bed last night. Oh boy.
Hi 44, I'm sorry to see you back, but truthfully, not surprised. I don't think it's so much that you failed, but b/c your WW has not changed and did not do anything (that I can tell) to repair the damage she caused the MR. You had a false reconciliation, and I believe it was due to her manipulation (wanting to constantly call the shots and to be in charge of you) and her unwillingness to address her issues Toward the later part of your previous threads, you were having to call her out about her disrespectful behavior/attitude, almost on a daily basis. I could sense the toll it was taking on you. She wore you down.
Let's call it by its real name..........abuse. She mentally/emotionally abuses you. The two of you go on several trips and have fun, but it is not enough to sustain the every day relationship. I think she is capable of treating you in a honorable fashion, but she doesn't want to. She has drafted you into her personal military, basically for the empowerment she feels from ordering you around. Last time, she even tried to isolate you from interacting with other people or making friends while living in a foreign country. She was very jealous and controlling when you tried to GAL, and trying to keep you separated from anyone other than her, sounds characteristic of a psychopath. Plus, she knows there is a mental issue connected to her past, but she firmly refuses to seek therapy for herself........and delays (IMHO) MC. I don't think MC will help until she sees a psychiatrist, but that's just me talking out loud.
IMHO, you need to decide what you want from your marriage partner and what type of relationship you want. Then evaluate your list and see if it is realistic. Decide what you are willing to tolerate and where you draw the line (boundaries).
Toleration is not compromising. I often wonder if some LBH's see themselves as compromising when actually they just tolerate the WW's disrespectful behavior. You have tolerated a lot of disrespect and manipulation. If you are willing to settle for a M where you have very little independence; and you are not respected as a man; and live with a dictator; then that's your decision. If you realize that it's not going to get much better than having occasional fun trips, then I suggest you stop waiting & watching to see if she's going to change for the better. Do you agree that has been your decision making handbook, so to speak, hoping she would eventually change?
Toleration is having patience in a situation. It's enduring a particular hardship......like a health issue, for example. We may tolerate another person's characteristic traits, as long as those traits do not dishonor our personal boundaries. If they step over that line, then it's up to us to protect our own feelings and self value. Make sense?
Our values, honor, integrity, respect, etc., should never be compromised...........not even to save a marriage. Now there are ways a couple will need to compromise in settling a dispute or views of opinion. I see compromising as a couple meeting each other half way. For instance, compromise in which house to buy, how much money to spend on vacation, who does which house chores, etc. However, we should not compromise that which makes us who we are.
I don't know that I have anything "new" to say, 44 Tries. However, I would like to support you, if I can. As you know, I'm not the Miss Sunshine of the Year type, but I will talk straight and tell you how I see things.
(((hugs)))
Sandi, I am so so glad to hear from you. I have so much gratitude for all the advice you have given me. And I know you will always tell it to me straight, which I very much appreciate.
You ask me if my method is hoping she will eventually change...I suppose my answer is yes. I think my problem is when the MR is not being threatened by BD, I am so much more blind to her "abuse". The thing I am hoping changes during those times is her attraction to me, not necessarily her daily behavior. But if I was evaluating it as closely as I do when I post here, you would probably see someone being worn down and sticking to the status quo. It's difficult with the reversed spouse roles, I want to make her comfortable after a long day at work but then I am the errand boy again. If she isn't an A or BDing me, it feels more normal (acceptable?) to do these errand boy things given our household roles. In fact, these kind of things are what she expresses appreciation for more than anything. But I get it, she benefits so she feeds it and it all fits the narrative.
I will not disagree with you on calling it abuse. I may have said this before, but it was much worse earlier on. When we first moved in together...emotions were much more volatile (never physical though). She has changed miles from then. But she still calls the shots, dictates the mood, etc. That's the thing, it's not as if she has never made any effort to change anything. And there are times she has stated she wants to be better for me and has in some ways. Honestly, if this BD hadn't happened I would have said we were still making progress! Which is so discouraging that I was so off.
I couldn't agree more with your discussion on toleration vs compromise. I'm sure I've done both in this MR. As you said, the toleration is of the disrespect and manipulation. My endless patience is my own worst enemy. I do feel my respect has been compromised and it is not okay. I feel very angry, wronged, and exhausted. I honestly think I might be more angry now than I was about the A.
Sandi, I am so so glad to hear from you. I have so much gratitude for all the advice you have given me. And I know you will always tell it to me straight, which I very much appreciate.
I am really glad to hear that, 44, b/c I wasn't sure if you'd want to see anymore posts from me.
Do you feel that it is the actual bomb drop that you fear the most? It's as if she gives you a BD reboot ever so often. Abusers play on the fear of their victim. I remember you once told (when you were living in that foreign country) that if you had to physically separate from her that you would be fine......as for as being a military spouse, plus having a source of personal finances, should you find yourself without a home, etc.
So, do you think that it is more of a psychological issue regarding the bomb drops? I can't remember if you ever said you suffered with abandonment issues due to something in your childhood. I really wish you had an IC to help you deal with your fear. What about your Pastor? Have you relocated to a church, since the move back to the states? You might receive spiritual encouragement, at the least. ((hugs))
I think my problem is when the MR is not being threatened by BD, I am so much more blind to her "abuse".
I think I can see how that could easily happen. You want to save the M, so you naturally welcome any sense of "normality", and probably relax or let down your guard. Who wouldn't? You are exhausted from the stress. Add that with you hope that she is conducting herself better for the purpose of improving the MR.........yeah, you get a bit comfortable, and then WHOP.....another bomb drop. She knows exactly how to manipulate your feelings, your actions, your every move. IDK if she has always been this way, or if it came after enlisting in the military, but she certainly appears to enjoy having someone under her command. And, as I stated in my previous post, I could see how she tried to isolate you and keep you from expanding activities that might actually be with someone other than her. IMHO, that's a red flag that signifies a mentally unhealthy person. It matters not the gender, it's still mental abuse.
But if I was evaluating it as closely as I do when I post here, you would probably see someone being worn down and sticking to the status quo.
I did see you wearing down, especially when your posting started shutting down. I'm glad to see you posting on other member's threads. It benefits you and them, plus you don't have to constantly talk about your own sitch, if you aren't in the mood. Anyway, I want to encourage you to stick with us, and if you get too tired to talk about it, take a couple of days off. Just please don't get completely away until things are much, much better in your life.
Referring back to your quote above, I think a lot of husbands just try to keep their heads down and go with the flow, rather than cause a ripple with the W. They bought into the mentality of "happy wife = happy life". This philosophy, if you could call it that, might be true as long as it doesn't cost the man his b@lls. Once his b@lls are sacrificed in the name of making the W happy..........any chance of attraction is automatically flushed down the toilet. He has become a eunuch!
For the record, I'm not saying you have lost your male parts, b/c I saw you when you stood toe to toe with her and she backed down..........(she didn't back down enough), but I know you have what it takes for a woman to be attracted to you. I think your W challenges your male confidence b/c she gets some type of satisfaction in keeping you under her thumb.
It's difficult with the reversed spouse roles, I want to make her comfortable after a long day at work but then I am the errand boy again.
The man has something that attracts his counterpart........simply b/c God designed him that way. Same is true about the woman. Yes, when the traditional roles are reversed (as far as who is employed and who works at home) it can be quite challenging. Especially, in this day & time when so many women have very high stress careers, and/or who are in positions over others, especially over men. For women, as well as men, I think it's often a matter of changing hats when they go home to their spouse. However, I think it is harder for women, b/c they attach their feelings to every involvement in their lives. Whereas men can categorically separate their emotions/feelings from all the other areas that require their attention, time, hard work, etc., women are tied to these thing through their emotions.
As much pressure as women are to "have it all", (the lie from hell), there is no wonder that she is stressed to the gills by the time she comes in from work every evening. That's why many women need to
vent when they get home from an exhausting day at work, b/c it's draining and frustrating to have feelings attached to most everything. If she can't or doesn't have sufficient time to shift gears or change hats, she'll likely go in bossing her H around like he is her employee, or she'll act like a b'tch on steroids, simply b/c she's spread too thin. The more stress & grind on her (be it her job; emotional issues from a family/friend relationship; finances; raising kids, having too many fires going at the same time; etc.), the thinner she is spread emotionally & it takes a toll on her physically.......... and something is likely going to breakdown. It's a matter of her having too much on her plate at once for an extended amount of time. Women are very strong creatures in their own way, so don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Woman is an
emotional being, and it's not easy (maybe not possible) for her to categorically separate all the demands from her without her feelings being attached. Oh, she may appear to be on top of everything, and very good at what she does, but I'm talking about her inner makeup as a female. I make get flack about this, but I think it is a distinct difference in men and women. Men don't attach their emotions to
everything, like women do, and let me tell ya, it can be
exhausting. I think we would have less problems in intimate relationships, if women would stop expecting men to act & feel like women. Let men act like men!
I can empathize about the roles being reversed, b/c there were times I experienced it in my own M. I think the man can help with chores, cook, the whole shebang as good as a woman (unless it's the laundry.....
) What I think is key here........is that it does not take away from his masculinity. Observe a women working in the kitchen, then watch a man. Same job, but I find it somewhat amusing in the differential patterns. In other words, 44, as long as you don't look/act like a woman, I think it's safe to clean the house and cook dinner. As a woman/wife, she has to see your natural masculinity in everything you do. It should be second nature, but I think the roles tend to rob some people of their femininity or masculinity. Like certain careers in law enforcement may cause a woman to come across a bit less feminine, b/c she's got to have that outward toughness as much as the men. So, I think it works both ways, and if the man is a SAHD, he could lose his edge so to speak. Now, stay balance here. I'm not suggesting there are never times you don't show tenderness or whatever you might associate with female attributes. Your masculinity should still shine through, b/c you are a God created male. Just as you are attracted to the feminine side of your W, she is attracted to your masculinity. It seems it would be natural for us, b/c that's the way we were designed, however, as I described above, in our current lifestyle, we may need to take a refresher course.
In all honesty, I don't think a lack of masculinity is your problem, and I don't know how I got off into talking about all that stuff. I think she is a demanding type of person, punitive, controlling, manipulative, jealous, selfish, etc., and that's why some men refer to their W as the "old chain & ball". But it's usually men who have allowed their situation to continue, rather than cause a ripple with the chain & ball. You must feel the emotional weight and confinement. I do feel that she needs therapy, b/c there is something that's just not healthy with her in this relationship and perhaps all her relationships. I know you can't force her to seek help, I'm just expressing what I see when reading your threads.
I am really glad to hear that, 44, b/c I wasn't sure if you'd want to see anymore posts from me.
I hope I did not somehow give you this impression! You are one of the biggest reasons my MR is still out of the grave at all.
Do you feel that it is the actual bomb drop that you fear the most? It's as if she gives you a BD reboot ever so often. Abusers play on the fear of their victim. I remember you once told (when you were living in that foreign country) that if you had to physically separate from her that you would be fine......as for as being a military spouse, plus having a source of personal finances, should you find yourself without a home, etc.
So, do you think that it is more of a psychological issue regarding the bomb drops? I can't remember if you ever said you suffered with abandonment issues due to something in your childhood. I really wish you had an IC to help you deal with your fear. What about your Pastor? Have you relocated to a church, since the move back to the states? You might receive spiritual encouragement, at the least. ((hugs))
It is definitely the bomb drop that I fear most, I think. And you are correct, it is not related to fear of not being okay without her. I am very fortunate I have a lot of resources and people who love me outside of my MR and I do not lack general self confidence. I stated in one of my earlier posts that sometimes thinking about what my life would look like if we divorced actually excites me. You mention feeling confinement later on, but that is applicable here. I am happy to "settle down" with W and those were always my intentions. But putting up with all of this definitely takes away from it and I would be lying if I said I never looked out the window and wondered what if. My fear is not for the what if. Sometimes people ask if I fear change. I would say yes, but it is all about losing the past. I do not fear the new part of the change, I fear losing what I had. I am extremely sentimental and often miss things before they are even gone. This is a good thing in that it makes me very appreciative of life and I love every minute of it. But you can see the susceptibility to over-valuing things and having a hard time letting go.
I don't know if you have heard of the "anxious-avoidant" relationship dynamic, but my MR is the stereotype. I am the anxious one, obviously. I suppose this is the psychological issue you are speculating on. I did not have a traumatic childhood or suffer any real abandonment, but I grew up with parents that were in an absolutely loveless MR. (I guess I should say it was one sided love, as you would expect). So I'm not sure what effect this has. Anyway, I do have an IC now! Well, hopefully. I just found one last week and scheduled to begin. I chose very carefully and after the initial phone conversation, I am extremely optimistic and can't wait to start.
I think I can see how that could easily happen. You want to save the M, so you naturally welcome any sense of "normality", and probably relax or let down your guard. Who wouldn't? You are exhausted from the stress. Add that with you hope that she is conducting herself better for the purpose of improving the MR.........yeah, you get a bit comfortable, and then WHOP.....another bomb drop. She knows exactly how to manipulate your feelings, your actions, your every move. IDK if she has always been this way, or if it came after enlisting in the military, but she certainly appears to enjoy having someone under her command. And, as I stated in my previous post, I could see how she tried to isolate you and keep you from expanding activities that might actually be with someone other than her. IMHO, that's a red flag that signifies a mentally unhealthy person. It matters not the gender, it's still mental abuse.
This is true. I do not know where her need to control stems from, I did not know her before the military but I suspect it is more about why she joined rather than the other way around. But certainly now she shows red flags in the mental health department. She does try to isolate me and keep everything under thumb. She gets jealous, interrogates, the whole deal. I think at first this is partly why our relationship worked, because I was waiving the white flag from day 1. I do not fight for control in relationships. I am a natural follower and totally okay with it. I'm happy to concede things that matter little to me and pick my battles for the things that matter. Of course one day I realized I somehow conceded everything. Like you said happy wife, happy life. But once our relationship left the honeymoon stage, it almost feels like W is sad I don't want to play her game. That's why I am no fun. This is the red flag.
I did see you wearing down, especially when your posting started shutting down. I'm glad to see you posting on other member's threads. It benefits you and them, plus you don't have to constantly talk about your own sitch, if you aren't in the mood. Anyway, I want to encourage you to stick with us, and if you get too tired to talk about it, take a couple of days off. Just please don't get completely away until things are much, much better in your life.
I will.
Referring back to your quote above, I think a lot of husbands just try to keep their heads down and go with the flow, rather than cause a ripple with the W. They bought into the mentality of "happy wife = happy life". This philosophy, if you could call it that, might be true as long as it doesn't cost the man his b@lls. Once his b@lls are sacrificed in the name of making the W happy..........any chance of attraction is automatically flushed down the toilet. He has become a eunuch!
For the record, I'm not saying you have lost your male parts, b/c I saw you when you stood toe to toe with her and she backed down..........(she didn't back down enough), but I know you have what it takes for a woman to be attracted to you. I think your W challenges your male confidence b/c she gets some type of satisfaction in keeping you under her thumb.
Yes. Why she is always challenging me is a mystery. I wish she would see my confidence as attractive. Instead, she almost seems threatened. There is a line in the boundary thread about toxic relationships, that says something like 'you and your partner battle for control in the R'. She is constantly waging this war and it makes little sense to me since I am not fighting back. She does not want to give it to me, for lack of better words. For example, I would fall out of my chair if she ever came to me and said something like I was the smartest person she knows and she loves that about me (the specific compliment does not matter). She would just never admit that...to ME. But first thing that happens when I meet a group of her friends or coworkers, they say something like oo W has said SO much about you and how you are the smartest person ever blah blah, whatever it is. As soon as I'm not there, she gushes about me. But never to my face...because of this toxic power struggle I never wanted to have in the first place!
The man has something that attracts his counterpart........simply b/c God designed him that way. Same is true about the woman. Yes, when the traditional roles are reversed (as far as who is employed and who works at home) it can be quite challenging. Especially, in this day & time when so many women have very high stress careers, and/or who are in positions over others, especially over men. For women, as well as men, I think it's often a matter of changing hats when they go home to their spouse. However, I think it is harder for women, b/c they attach their feelings to every involvement in their lives. Whereas men can categorically separate their emotions/feelings from all the other areas that require their attention, time, hard work, etc., women are tied to these thing through their emotions.
As much pressure as women are to "have it all", (the lie from hell), there is no wonder that she is stressed to the gills by the time she comes in from work every evening. That's why many women need to
vent when they get home from an exhausting day at work, b/c it's draining and frustrating to have feelings attached to most everything. If she can't or doesn't have sufficient time to shift gears or change hats, she'll likely go in bossing her H around like he is her employee, or she'll act like a b'tch on steroids, simply b/c she's spread too thin. The more stress & grind on her (be it her job; emotional issues from a family/friend relationship; finances; raising kids, having too many fires going at the same time; etc.), the thinner she is spread emotionally & it takes a toll on her physically.......... and something is likely going to breakdown. It's a matter of her having too much on her plate at once for an extended amount of time. Women are very strong creatures in their own way, so don't misunderstand what I'm trying to say. Woman is an
emotional being, and it's not easy (maybe not possible) for her to categorically separate all the demands from her without her feelings being attached. Oh, she may appear to be on top of everything, and very good at what she does, but I'm talking about her inner makeup as a female. I make get flack about this, but I think it is a distinct difference in men and women. Men don't attach their emotions to
everything, like women do, and let me tell ya, it can be
exhausting. I think we would have less problems in intimate relationships, if women would stop expecting men to act & feel like women. Let men act like men!
I can empathize about the roles being reversed, b/c there were times I experienced it in my own M. I think the man can help with chores, cook, the whole shebang as good as a woman (unless it's the laundry.....
) What I think is key here........is that it does not take away from his masculinity. Observe a women working in the kitchen, then watch a man. Same job, but I find it somewhat amusing in the differential patterns. In other words, 44, as long as you don't look/act like a woman, I think it's safe to clean the house and cook dinner. As a woman/wife, she has to see your natural masculinity in everything you do. It should be second nature, but I think the roles tend to rob some people of their femininity or masculinity. Like certain careers in law enforcement may cause a woman to come across a bit less feminine, b/c she's got to have that outward toughness as much as the men. So, I think it works both ways, and if the man is a SAHD, he could lose his edge so to speak. Now, stay balance here. I'm not suggesting there are never times you don't show tenderness or whatever you might associate with female attributes. Your masculinity should still shine through, b/c you are a God created male. Just as you are attracted to the feminine side of your W, she is attracted to your masculinity. It seems it would be natural for us, b/c that's the way we were designed, however, as I described above, in our current lifestyle, we may need to take a refresher course.
Everything you say about emotions applies. I am not an emotion based person. She on the other hand...Her family likes to say they are "exposed nerves" that feel everything incredibly deeply. I can confirm. And she does have a very stressful job and one that puts a lot of strain on the MR, and her mental health personally as well. I let her vent everyday (which she does and I'll be honest, sometimes it's a spew every single day and very exhausting but I don't let it show).
In all honesty, I don't think a lack of masculinity is your problem, and I don't know how I got off into talking about all that stuff. I think she is a demanding type of person, punitive, controlling, manipulative, jealous, selfish, etc., and that's why some men refer to their W as the "old chain & ball". But it's usually men who have allowed their situation to continue, rather than cause a ripple with the chain & ball. You must feel the emotional weight and confinement. I do feel that she needs therapy, b/c there is something that's just not healthy with her in this relationship and perhaps all her relationships. I know you can't force her to seek help, I'm just expressing what I see when reading your threads.
I am glad you don't this masculinity is my problem. I don't really think so either. I think I need to stand up for myself better and cut out the NGS stuff, but that is what I have worked on most and I think it is a work in progress but it IS progressing. I think you nailed it with your description. I think she is that person when she is not healthy, anyway, which is now. Those are her worse tendencies that come out when she is neglecting her mental health, which is her MO. I wholeheartedly agree she needs therapy and that I cannot force it. I figure the best thing I can do is lead by example and go myself, which as I said is already in the works. I really appreciate all of your input; thank you Sandi.
P.S. I am a laundry WIZARD.
I don't really have much of an update, TBH. She has not moved into the guest bedroom, she brought her suitcase into the MBR when she unpacked today. But she is still sleeping on the couch in the basement. She is not hostile, but her friendliness is very clearly limited and she is sending the message that she is still firmly in the BD camp. I need to work on my detachment and GAL. I am in the middle of midterms and on top of all this and my grandfather's death, I am just barely treading water. I actually woke up very physically ill today and I do not know if it was an actual bug or just my body breaking under all the weight. I am sure it did wonders for my case to have W wake up and find me writhing on the bathroom floor vomiting
but not much I can do other than ask for privacy.
The biggest obstacle to my DB right now is caring if there is an A. I keep wondering, wondering if she is in the other room texting, wondering what she is doing on her computer, etc. It is very hard to keep proper distance without undermining myself by looking for intel. As others have said, time WILL tell and I need to be patient and forget about it because it does not matter, at least right now. I think it might benefit me just to convince myself there IS an A and make everything easier.
Well, that escalated quickly. W came into the MBR and asked what my plan is. When I will be moving out. I told her if she thinks I am going to scurry away like a sad little mouse she is in for a surprise. I told her we could discuss a plan, but I will not accept her suddenly saying it is her house, her mortgage, and I just have to leave. Well...war was waged. She went stone cold. She told me our relationship means nothing to her. She even said she hated me "a little bit". She said she cannot stay under the same roof as me any longer. If I won't leave, she will. She said she is staying somewhere else tonight.
I told her she has treated me and our MR like dirt. She has lied, she has cheated, she has walked out and quit. I told her I am getting this #$%* out of my life. I told her I can't believe she has done this to me again. I asked her when the A started this time. Before or after I came to visit. She said she wasn't going to say anything. She stared blankly to whatever I said. I broke a lot of rules, only choked up a few times. Mostly I was just furious. But this was a BLOW UP. I am stunned. An A is confirmed in my mind. I don't have a choice now. She thinks we can just go to the courthouse and have an amicable divorce. I told her I can't trust anything she says, I do not know how this will go.
I don't know what to do. I am in shock. She has gone full on WW monster. I feel like my life has been ruined forever.
Yeah, she didn't stay somewhere else. Came back five minutes later saying she was going to bed (she moved into the guest room last night apparently). She told me to give her a list of what I wanted/needed in the D. Said she is going to the courthouse this week and if I go, to let her know. I just don't know how I am going to keep up with school, launch a job search and go ace interviews, all while going through this. I'm not even spinning anymore, just going into shock and shutting down.
I just don't know how I am going to keep up with school, launch a job search and go ace interviews, all while going through this.
Hi 44tires, are you based in the US or the UK? Can you let her drive all this divorce-related business since she's the one interested in it, while you try to focus on your exams, job search, and interviews?
I'm not even spinning anymore, just going into shock and shutting down.
It can't be easy to hear someone who once loved you now hates you and may be in an A. Good job staying in the house and holding onto the MBR even while in the thick of it.
I told her she has treated me and our MR like dirt. She has lied, she has cheated, she has walked out and quit. I told her I am getting this #$%* out of my life.
Responding to her venting with your own venting feels good but doesn't improve things.
Don't give her a list. I wouldn't talk to her very much for a while, just basic stuff. Take some time to calm yourself. Do some healing, do some growth, do some GAL.
Use this job opportunity to be the best you. Prepare thoroughly and go knock it out of the park.
Thanks, CW. I am based in the US. I can and will let her drive the D business. She seems to think it will be so simple and easy. I can just let her know what I want of our possessions and that's that. I know it doesn't improve things to vent. But I have been holding in so much anger. I knew better, and honestly if I wasn't telling myself the whole time to stop, it would have been much worse. I didn't go on and on, I just wanted her to know I am not going to be waiting around for this merry go round cycle again. Now, I can't take anything back so just go forward with the best DB I can.
I didn't go on and on, I just wanted her to know I am not going to be waiting around for this merry go round cycle again. Now, I can't take anything back so just go forward with the best DB I can.
What did you say that you can't take back?
Frankly, I'm glad that you are mad. It's high time!
This is how I see it. These cycles will continue, until she sees you aren't going to put up with her shenanigans. IMHO, you need to take quicker action that the last cycle. It's got to have a harder impact, or else she will continue these patterns.
.
This is the time to let her know that you don't intend to go through another cycle of her trying to figure out what she wants....or whatever label she gives her "space & time". These cycles of hers seem to include another person and disrespectful behavior toward her H/M. You aren't going to hang around and play BFF's since she's dropped another bomb. You are tried of her immaturity, disrespect, etc., etc.
44, do you want to be responsible for the new house? Could you meet full payments on your own? One spouse may have to buy the other spouse, but IDK, since you've only lived there 6 months. You might want to stay silent about that house until you speak with an attorney.
Regarding your anger............some may tell you to remain calm and act as if it doesn't matter, and I believe that is correct for pertinent situations. IMHO, I believe she
should see your anger just below sea level. An alpha male would not play nice-nice when hit with the second bomb drop. He would be done, and nobody should be more convinced than his WW. Since there are no children to hold him to the house, he would either wash his hands of her and the house, or kick her out. (Legally, you may not be able to kick her out, so check to see). Either way, I just don't think it is wise to stick around this time. I think she needs a clear picture of her life without her H there to
accommodate her. I really don't think she'll care, until she actually experiences losing you.
This takes b@lls, 44. If I remember, didn't you give a boundary the last time of staying in an open marriage (or something of that equivalent)? Didn't you tell last time that you would not be disrespected? Well, it's time to put legs to your boundaries. Going through the same formation as played out in the previous BD, will be disastrous. She got off and was able to pick up way tooooo easily the last time. Plus, not much of anything appears to have changed her appetite to be in command over you. I think the unresolved issues from her past, is only a part that you see surface, and I don't think you should stick around to be her whipping boy. This time, I think requires physical separation........and I don't mean "in-house separation". This time.............you are the one who needs the space & time away from her, which includes texting, emailing, photos, etc. This is just my suggestion that you physically separate, drop the emotional rope you have tied to her, and go dark (no phone calls, etc.)
Well, that escalated quickly. W came into the MBR and asked what my plan is. When I will be moving out. I told her if she thinks I am going to scurry away like a sad little mouse she is in for a surprise. I told her we could discuss a plan, but I will not accept her suddenly saying it is her house, her mortgage, and I just have to leave. Well...war was waged. She went stone cold. She told me our relationship means nothing to her. She even said she hated me "a little bit". She said she cannot stay under the same roof as me any longer. If I won't leave, she will. She said she is staying somewhere else tonight.
I told her she has treated me and our MR like dirt. She has lied, she has cheated, she has walked out and quit. I told her I am getting this #$%* out of my life. I told her I can't believe she has done this to me again. I asked her when the A started this time. Before or after I came to visit. She said she wasn't going to say anything. She stared blankly to whatever I said. I broke a lot of rules, only choked up a few times. Mostly I was just furious. But this was a BLOW UP. I am stunned. An A is confirmed in my mind. I don't have a choice now. She thinks we can just go to the courthouse and have an amicable divorce. I told her I can't trust anything she says, I do not know how this will go.
I don't know what to do. I am in shock. She has gone full on WW monster. I feel like my life has been ruined forever.
44, it sounds like you regret this conversation but honestly it needed to happen and for the most part it sounds like you handled it well. You stood your ground, told her you are not leaving, told her you will not be pushed around by her. Maybe it's NGS that's making you feel guilty but I see nothing wrong in any of that. The only thing I would ding you on is asking her when the A started, that's not really material, is it? Just knowing she's having an A is enough.
I agree with CW, do NOTHING in regards to the D. I would almost lay money that she will run her mouth about it but do nothing herself. She will more than likely try to browbeat you into doing the D work for her. Don't fall for it.
I also agree with ovr about not giving her the list she requested. MAKE HER DO THE WORK. If she brings it up again then tell her you have no intentions of making a list for her, but if she makes one you will be happy to review it.
Awesome advice from Sandi too, as usual
What did you say that you can't take back?
I was really referring to CW saying it doesn't do any good to vent. I'm just saying I can't take whatever I did say back, but TBH I don't really regret anything I said. I didn't become hateful or spiteful. I didn't make any big claims or statements I can't back up. I just made it clear that I don't deserve this and have heard it for the last time.
Frankly, I'm glad that you are mad. It's high time!
This is how I see it. These cycles will continue, until she sees you aren't going to put up with her shenanigans. IMHO, you need to take quicker action that the last cycle. It's got to have a harder impact, or else she will continue these patterns.
.
This is the time to let her know that you don't intend to go through another cycle of her trying to figure out what she wants....or whatever label she gives her "space & time". These cycles of hers seem to include another person and disrespectful behavior toward her H/M. You aren't going to hang around and play BFF's since she's dropped another bomb. You are tried of her immaturity, disrespect, etc., etc.
I am glad my anger is not misplaced. This was exactly my message. We are not friends. I said I don't want it to get ugly, but she has shown me nothing but disrespect and bad faith and therefore I cannot trust her or guarantee that this will go amicably (which I think is what she was really hoping for, that I would roll over and make this as painless as possible for her). When she asked for the 50th time what I plan to do, I said I guess hire a lawyer.
44, do you want to be responsible for the new house? Could you meet full payments on your own? One spouse may have to buy the other spouse, but IDK, since you've only lived there 6 months. You might want to stay silent about that house until you speak with an attorney.
I was careful with what I said about the house. I shut down her talk of just kicking me out. She actually tried to say that it was HER house, I was just along for the ride. Unbelievable. When I pushed back, she said fine have it, mortgage is paid for October, you have a month to figure out how to pay for November. If I'm being honest to you here, no I don't think I want to be responsible for it. I probably will not stick around in this city as the job market here is not great for my field and I have much better opportunities a few hours away. I also do feel it would not be totally right to take it from her. After all, she is the one who has financially put into it and used her veteran's loan to purchase it etc. Don't worry I'm not going soft, and I will find out my legal rights and all options and not speak of any of this with her. But those are my preliminary thoughts on it. It is affordable, however, and if I get a job I don't doubt I could easily pay for it so it isn't about the money.
Regarding your anger............some may tell you to remain calm and act as if it doesn't matter, and I believe that is correct for pertinent situations. IMHO, I believe she should see your anger just below sea level. An alpha male would not play nice-nice when hit with the second bomb drop. He would be done, and nobody should be more convinced than his WW. Since there are no children to hold him to the house, he would either wash his hands of her and the house, or kick her out. (Legally, you may not be able to kick her out, so check to see). Either way, I just don't think it is wise to stick around this time. I think she needs a clear picture of her life without her H there to accommodate her. I really don't think she'll care, until she actually experiences losing you.
I agree with this. Heck, even then I don't know if she'll care. She seems to truly be in the "we never should have gotten married" camp (she said this). Acts like I have been dragging her this whole way kicking and screaming. In some ways I guess she is right since she has always insisted on having one foot out the door. I can't help but think it is truly over, but it doesn't really matter right now.
This takes b@lls, 44. If I remember, didn't you give a boundary the last time of staying in an open marriage (or something of that equivalent)? Didn't you tell last time that you would not be disrespected? Well, it's time to put legs to your boundaries. Going through the same formation as played out in the previous BD, will be disastrous. She got off and was able to pick up way tooooo easily the last time. Plus, not much of anything appears to have changed her appetite to be in command over you. I think the unresolved issues from her past, is only a part that you see surface, and I don't think you should stick around to be her whipping boy. This time, I think requires physical separation........and I don't mean "in-house separation". This time.............you are the one who needs the space & time away from her, which includes texting, emailing, photos, etc. This is just my suggestion that you physically separate, drop the emotional rope you have tied to her, and go dark (no phone calls, etc.)
I hear what you are saying. So, do you think I should leave immediately? I have stood my ground that I will not be FORCED out. I do not know if I should wait until I find a job or go stay with family while I search. This puts me at a somewhat disadvantageous position. But it gets the physical separation started. She is leaving on Friday to go to her family and care for her sister after surgery. She will be there all of next week. I do not know if I can find a job in that short time, but at least I have to stay until then for the dogs since she will be gone. If I get an interview in another city, I will book them a sitter for that night. To answer your question on the boundary, yes I made it clear last year I would not stay in an open marriage or be disrespected. I have no way of knowing for sure about any A, she was not going to admit to it. But my stance was/is, she might as well be and it's all the same. I'm glad you said going through the same formation as last time would be disastrous. That helps any fear/resolve I have about doing it differently (much more drastic) this time. I am ready to drop the rope and move on.
44, it sounds like you regret this conversation but honestly it needed to happen and for the most part it sounds like you handled it well. You stood your ground, told her you are not leaving, told her you will not be pushed around by her. Maybe it's NGS that's making you feel guilty but I see nothing wrong in any of that. The only thing I would ding you on is asking her when the A started, that's not really material, is it? Just knowing she's having an A is enough.
I don't regret the conversation, I just don't really know that it was "DB approved". I agree, I should not have even pushed the A issue. If I'm being honest, I just wanted to know. To help me cut the cord and be done with it all. It is not material to know when it started, like you said just knowing is enough. But that was the point, I do not KNOW. I have not been able to see any real evidence or catch her slipping up (quite the opposite of last time where it was very clear).
I agree with CW, do NOTHING in regards to the D. I would almost lay money that she will run her mouth about it but do nothing herself. She will more than likely try to browbeat you into doing the D work for her. Don't fall for it.
I also agree with ovr about not giving her the list she requested. MAKE HER DO THE WORK. If she brings it up again then tell her you have no intentions of making a list for her, but if she makes one you will be happy to review it.
I agree with this completely. She did shock me with her resolve in this blow up; it is possible she will be willing to do the work herself. But she also admitted that she hasn't looked into anything (yet), can't say which day "this week" she will being going to the courthouse (I'm actually not even sure what she means by this, is that where you get D papers?). I'm sure she would love nothing more than for me to do the work for her and I am not going to. I will let her make the list. She said last night she wants her car and the house. Doesn't care about anything else. I'm sure she would change that tune when I bring the moving truck and leave the house empty.
Awesome advice from Sandi too, as usual
Yes, and from you as well. Thanks, AS.
Sorry you are going through this, 44. Your W sounds angry and defiant.
I agree with the others to sit tight and let things calm down. Work on getting your emotions under control and you will be in a much better position to make sound decisions.
Her anger is what surprised me. She hasn't really been angry before during BD. Her emotions were clearly running sky high. Wish I knew where it was all coming from. But time to let it go.
can't say which day "this week" she will being going to the courthouse (I'm actually not even sure what she means by this, is that where you get D papers?).
I downloaded my initial divorce papers online. I filled them out, filed them with the courthouse clerk, then had them served. They mostly announced my intent and informed my ex-wife of her rights.. no real info was needed that early on. Yes, going to the courthouse with completed documents in triplicate is a key step. When you acknowledge service (both parties know) is when the court's clocks begin slowly ticking.
Thanks for explaining that, CW. I'm sure W will figure that out if she takes the time. I am preparing myself if she does go through with this to be served. I'd like to think she will communicate a bit more than that, but who knows.
She left her ring at home today.
I am considering an option, would like to know what everyone thinks. She keeps pushing me for to go stay with family, doesn't want to be in the same house etc. Well, I'm not moving out until I have a job and can support myself. But I need to go to my grandfather's funeral near the end of October. W is leaving next week as I stated earlier to be with her family. What if I book my flight for when she returns home, which would be approx 2 weeks from the funeral. I would spend two weeks at home with family, with a return flight booked back. I can continue my schoolwork and job search from there (might have to fly for an interview but o well, it would be travel either way). If I still haven't gotten anything, I return home to the house and continue looking. I have been thinking about what Sandi said and I am worried the physical presence will do more harm than good. Maybe with some seriousness on my part about giving her space, she will cool a bit. I'm just worried she will run and file this week, and the time starts ticking. I need to get in some medical appointments before I lose insurance and who knows what else I'm not thinking of. I guess that won't really work if I leave anyway....Starting to panic...
Well, she is very eager to get you out of that house, and since you are mainly dependent upon her job, you could be placing yourself in perilous situation........at least, mentally & emotionally. I don't think you've seen anything compared to what's in store when she goes back home to find you are still there. To be honest, I'm trying to figure out why you would want to be anywhere close to her. I noticed something when you were on the board last time, and I still see it. You really have not expressed your love for this woman. Working and maintaining a MR when you love one another is hard enough, but without love it would be a miserable way to live. I think being physically separated and going completely dark might help you think more clearly about your feelings and what you want to do going forward.
This is just me talking here. Unless you have a medical issue, then I would not stay with her just in order to get a checkup from the doctor. I would go stay with your parents until you completed your tests and found a job. If she files for a D, what difference would it make if you were there with her or with your parents? She's not going to be intimidated or hindered by your bodily presence in the house, b/c she doesn't
love you. I am going to say something that has always been a puzzle for me. I never understood why a LBS wanted to be with someone who didn't love them, especially when they are mistreated by that person. I don't care how much I love this man of mine, if he told me he no longer loved
me.........one of us would be gone before the week was over. We can't make someone love us, and if we stay for other reasons, I think the question would be "Is it worth it"? I think it's more of a business arrangement for you, and it has been ever since you stopped working so that you could focus on getting your Master's degree. If you had a mature woman at your side, it would be good and both of you would benefit from your hard work in the end. However, she's not mature and she shows signs of having mental/emotional issues and doesn't want help.
If I were in your shoes, and if she wanted to keep the house, I'd let her have it, just as long as it was understood (in writing) you were not responsible for it in shape or form. I would move wherever in the world I wanted to live (or could get a job
) and as far from her as I could get. There are actually good women out there that know to treat a man right. You are young, educated, have no children, and a future that is begging you to not settle for a relationship where you are not loved and abused. I think this is the time to cut all ties from her. You may find several reasons for staying with her, but if it were me, I'd have to ask myself if it is worth the abuse. I would have to ask myself a lot of questions about why I would stay with a person like your W. But this is not about me, it's your life to live. I just want to see you happy. ((hugs))
Thanks, Sandi! It’s like you were writing that for me as well! Time to move on!
I never understood why a LBS wanted to be with someone who didn't love them, especially when they are mistreated by that person.
For me I fully and truly committed to my marriage vows. The commitment was so deeply embedded in my heart and soul that I never considered leaving an option. The next part is all about my ego. It must be her mental/emotional issues and I said in sickness and in health so in my mind shouldn't I help her through the sickness. I never considered that she didn't actually love me. Not sure about 44tries2, but even now I have a hard time comprehending the fact that XW truly doesn't love or care about me at all. I am learning though. What I have found is whether she does or doesn't love me isn't really the point, she left and I wasn't given a choice but I can choose on how I want to move forward
I would agree with Sandi on this one 44tries2, it is time to cut ties and move on with your life.
Thank you for all the support. Believe me, Sandi, I do love my W more than I could ever say here. I would not be here if not. And I also relate to rooskers, my vows were not a joke. I committed for life, and I meant it. But I care most about her happiness and if she does not love me and wants to be free, then that is the last act of love I can give, unconditionally.
She left today. I do not know where she is. She said she will stay elsewhere. My heart is utterly broken and I did not know it was possible to feel such pain. But I will pick up the pieces and move forward. Tomorrow.
I know how rough it is, man. You are right in the thick of it. You’ve survived this in the past, and you will survive this time as well.
Keep working on detaching and realize that your W is in the fog right now. Not a damn thing you can do about it except leave her alone. That doesn’t mean she won’t possibly warm back up again. But for now, the best way to get her back is to let her go.
Something I’ve been trying to do is to view my relationship from an outsiders perspective. W has bombed me 4x now, does it really make sense for me to pine away all over again for her? Try zooming out and seeing your W from another lens. I know it’s easier said than done, but keep practicing.
This is really helpful, T. It is very powerful to zoom out and see the objective view. Every single person who has supported me during this has said the exact same thing: It isn't anything to do with you, this is her personal issue. There is nothing I can about any of it and it does not make sense for me to even want to. Like you said, keep practicing is the key.
My emotions are in seizure mode. Detached and okay, then burning alive a half second later. It. is. horrible. I'm launching a massive job search today. I don't know how I'm going to do any of this but I am literally going to just force one foot in front of the other. I think if I really exert myself, I could finish the semester even if I get a full-time job. In reality, it will be just 8 weeks or so of a huge workload. Then, I can adjust accordingly next semester. I know once I have secured a job I want and have a new place, I will be able to actually breathe and think clearly and begin to heal/move on. That is the point where I will be okay. Until then, left foot, right foot.
Sandi, I thought a lot about you said about being puzzled by why LBSes want to be with someone who doesn't love them. I think it's because it is very difficult to believe we aren't loved. That is a tough thing to swallow to begin with, and all the harder when three weeks prior your spouse wrote you letters, sent you roses, or whatever they did. A major part of DB is recognizing that emotions are fleeting, feelings change. Yesterday they loved us, today they do not, tomorrow...who knows? I understand why that may not be enough. For people like Thornton and I who go through the cycle without relief, it is hard to argue that it is worth it. Unfortunately, it is very possible to deeply love someone who does not return that love. We are here in part to learn how to detach from it, make peace with it, and let it go dormant, maybe forever.
W texted me, "I'm thinking maybe I'll come home today or tomorrow." "I don't want to freak the dogs out anymore I know they don't like me leaving."
I am feeling very overwhelmed. I have been revamping my resume and LinkedIn etc today. Job searching is daunting and I feel unprepared and not confident. I feel like I am desperate and have to take the first thing that comes. W has not explicitly kicked me out, but I do not know what her message was by leaving last night. She can't stay under the same roof...but only for one night? She apparently has no patience and I have no idea how long this process will take me. I do not want to force my presence here and make her hate me even more. Sandi liked the idea to stay with family, I can book my flight for after W's return from her family. But I do NOT want to be stuck there. I will literally be crashing on the couch. I am job searching in this state (4.5hr drive from where I live now, where I lived before meeting W), not the one my family lives in. I would have to fly to interviews. I feel I cannot spend any money now because it is "W's". All of this is happening so fast and it's hard enough to breathe as it is...
Keeping posting to keep me sane...the good news is there a LOT of positions for the role I am looking for in my desired city (unlike current city, where this is exactly ONE). I am not sure whether I will actually be chosen for any of them, but it is encouraging to see that my field is in high demand. I am working to get applications submitted to any and all, as soon as possible. There a couple I think I at least have a real shot for. One happens to be with a company who shared a building with my old company. The thought of going back to work there is quite surreal.
So, I guess W is coming home tonight. I have no idea where she has been since getting off work. I assumed she would be gone until tomorrow after her last message. About an hour ago, she said, "Do you have a problem with me coming back tomorrow or do you prefer it like this?" She was the one who decided to leave, not my request. I simply said I have no problem. She replied "Okay well I'll come back tonight then. Do you want food on my way?"
If I'm honest, I do kind of prefer her gone. It helps me pretend she never existed. Will I ever not love her anymore? Or will I just forget that I do?
Come home she did. She looked awful, like she really did sleep in the car last night. Strangely, it seemed she wanted to make up for lost time. Hopped up onto the kitchen counter and started chatting to me about work. She talked for over an hour while I listened, laughed when she did, commented here and there. If I knew how long it would go on I would have pulled up a chair. In the beginning she asked what I did today and I told her I had applied for some jobs. Hopefully, she realizes I’m taking this seriously and she doesn’t need to be a crazy person sleeping in her car. It might take time, but I’m not squatting in the house in protest. Fingers crossed she has recovered a little patience, that would take away some of my panic.
I also still haven’t gotten any real A vibes. I didn’t see her phone once from the time she got home until she said she was going to bed. Maybe she really is just that miserable with me.
I hate the feeling like I can't do anything fun. I need to GAL. But I am just constantly finishing schoolwork so I can do more job research, cover letter writing etc. Tonight NHL season begins and I'm going to watch my team! Been waiting months for this and kinda bummed it's finally here on such a sour note, but o well.
So W made a point to say goodbye to me this morning and text me when she was coming home from work. Throughout the the day too about some documentation on an insurance claim from the move. Then she wants to know what's for dinner. Ahh...I am debating about my flight home. Sandi says I should go as soon her trip ends. I need to decide and book it one way or the other. Should I tell W I am leaving as soon as she returns and will be back the weekend before Halloween pending my employment status? I do feel it would be much easier job searching within state...I'm very torn. And it has nothing to do with trying to stay near W. I am really on board the move on train and if I could snap my fingers and have a new job and place right this second, I would. I want to get to that place where I probably don't even want R. Thoughts appreciated.
AS, you win your money on the bet about W and taking action for D. Friday is upon us and W is leaving straight from work to go to her family. Her sister's surgery went well and she is being discharged tomorrow. So W did not "go to the courthouse this week" as she claimed. Instead, her priorities seem to lie in going to the casino. I have not kept close tabs, but I believe she has spent about $1k there in the past 8 days since returning home. Not sure how she is going to even afford D at this rate.
Today, I got all gussied up to take some professional photos for my job search. W was quite curious about this. Wanted to help and I declined. I got a GREAT photo for my networking profiles and a boost of confidence. Slowly but surely I am putting one foot in front of the other.
I am really struggling with the expected yo yoing from W. As I stated in an earlier post, it was actually easier when she was huffing out the door refusing to sleep under the same roof. Now, she wants to help cook dinner, and come into "my" room to play me some new music she likes. Keep in mind, this is all happening within a few days time!! My mind has whiplash and I know none of this means anything. There's a part of me sitting bored on the sideline knowing I can do this whole distance pursuit dance and by the end of the month she'll be back in the bedroom. But by the end of next year, I'll be back here again. That is not what I want. I don't know if what I want is even possible. I'm hoping to get the call that there's a slot for me to start IC next week.
the good news is there a LOT of positions for the role I am looking for in my desired city (unlike current city, where this is exactly ONE). I am not sure whether I will actually be chosen for any of them, but it is encouraging to see that my field is in high demand. I am working to get applications submitted to any and all, as soon as possible. There a couple I think I at least have a real shot for. One happens to be with a company who shared a building with my old company. The thought of going back to work there is quite surreal.
Good luck, hopefully something comes up! It's got to be tough having to look for a job on top of everything else, I have been at the same job for almost 20 years and stayed in the same house but even with those things staying the same it seemed like my life went through some pretty radical changes after BD. Having to move and change jobs on top of that must feel surreal.
If I'm honest, I do kind of prefer her gone. It helps me pretend she never existed. Will I ever not love her anymore? Or will I just forget that I do?
It does get easier after separation. It can be hell living in limbo under the same roof. Hard to detach, impossible to go dark.
Hopefully, she realizes I’m taking this seriously and she doesn’t need to be a crazy person sleeping in her car. It might take time, but I’m not squatting in the house in protest.
You have your reasons, what she "thinks" isn't your problem. She's going to think what she wants, and possibly accuse you of some absurd stuff to try and get you to leave. That's her problem, not yours.
Should I tell W I am leaving as soon as she returns and will be back the weekend before Halloween pending my employment status? I do feel it would be much easier job searching within state...I'm very torn. And it has nothing to do with trying to stay near W. I am really on board the move on train and if I could snap my fingers and have a new job and place right this second, I would. I want to get to that place where I probably don't even want R. Thoughts appreciated.
I would make plans as they suit you and keep W informed. Don't ask permission, just figure out what works for you and then let her know what you're doing just as a courtesy.
AS, you win your money on the bet about W and taking action for D.
Wish I could say I have some special superpowers
But some WAS actions are sooooo predictable.
So W did not "go to the courthouse this week" as she claimed. Instead, her priorities seem to lie in going to the casino. I have not kept close tabs, but I believe she has spent about $1k there in the past 8 days since returning home.
Sounds like GGW stuff. If there's still not an OM I have a feeling there will be soon.
As I stated in an earlier post, it was actually easier when she was huffing out the door refusing to sleep under the same roof. Now, she wants to help cook dinner, and come into "my" room to play me some new music she likes. Keep in mind, this is all happening within a few days time!! My mind has whiplash and I know none of this means anything.
It means your DB'ing is working! When you can remove all pressure this is typically what happens. It doesn't mean she wants to recon but it does mean she feels more comfortable around you and that is a good baby step!
Thanks, AS. It is extremely difficult job searching under these circumstances. Like I said, it's just one foot in front of the other.
I still don't have any clue about OM or lack there of. If it was while she was gone, which was when DB happened, then he isn't here now. And I haven't seen much texting or running off to hide and text. With all her drinking while away, I wonder if she didn't cheat like a one stand type thing. So no real A, but enough to cause BD because she would never admit to that and wouldn't want to live with the lie. But who knows, BD came about because I told her her integrity [censored] and how was I supposed to accept that. She literally had nothing to say in response...until she did and it was BD. I go back and forth on how much of it was my own distrust and paranoia stemming from last year and then her being gone, or if I was right to be seeing red flags and her behavior was across the line.
She left today and I assume will be gone until next Sunday. She sent me some weird message telling me she was leaving work and will let me know when she gets there, and that she will make sure to check on me every day to see that i'm alive. wtf? i didn't respond. I am keeping my communication with her in line with my detachment. I never contact her first and I always end the convo unless response is necessary. Even with this, it doesn't fail that we talk at least a few times per day by her initiation.
I went to the movies today to get out of the house. Honestly, it was kind of depressing but that was partly due to my movie choice. But it wasn't the same as GALing while meeting new people. I am trying to make new friends via an app but the lines are blurry between friendship and dating and I am kind of afraid to actually meet anyone. And in the back of my mind I am thinking it's all a waste of time because i'm trying to move away.
My anger at W is also still raging strong. Today I thought about when we left our house of two years overseas and how I felt very sad but also happy to let go of all the awful memories of IHS, hearing her on the phone with OM at 3am, all that misery. Now here I am in a new house I thought was our fresh start and instead she is asking if I can wash "her" bedding (guest bed) while she is gone. I wonder about all the work that needs to be done to prep for winter and if I should do it. If I am living here I will, but it's very hard when Ws words echoing through my head saying "**I** bought a house, you were just here." She dished out some deep cuts that night. I just want to wake up from this absolute nightmare.
My DB'ing seems to be going well. My W is very responsive to the basics of DB. This was very true last time and seems is again. As soon as I step back, she steps closer. She has texted me every day she has been gone and has been almost over-the-top nice. None of her contact is in any way necessary. I usually respond, not right away, and then let the conversation die pretty quickly. To then count the number of hours until she caves and texts again. And it never fails. So bizarre. It seems the basics do work, but I cannot get beyond that. I do not want to follow the same pattern as last time. Just because she wants to talk to me more and be nice again doesn't mean she has changed anything in regards to commitment or desire for the MR. The REAL DB work needs to be done to make true changes. And I just don't see it happening on her side. So I am trying to not give this too much thought and just focus on moving forward.
Meanwhile, W told me today that it doesn't matter to her when I go for my grandfather's funeral. This was after informing me out of the blue that if my flight was on Wed the 23rd, she would not be available to take me to the airport. I did not ask her for a ride, so I just took this as an excuse to text me. I did need to book my tickets though and based on her response that it didn't matter, I booked my tickets for only 3 days, the same as the rest of my family. If W wants a separation ASAP, we can find a way to make it work, but staying with my family for any length of time just isn't a solution. I would rather work two jobs or take out a loan. I really hate the limbo and wondering if she is still actively trying to push me out or not. It seems right now she is not, but that could change any second. I keep thinking about what Sandi said about her finding that I have not left. But here's the thing, I am here right now because she needs me to be. And she keeps emphasizing she is sorry to put this on me and how much she appreciates me staying with the dogs. So it is convenient for her that I am here this week, but next week it isn't so I should go? Frankly, it is never truly going to be convenient for her to not have me here. We had our first dumping of snow last night and I have no choice but to do the winter prep for the house. I do not know what she was planning if I had ran out the door the day of BD. But the fact is she cannot take care of all this herself and does not care to try. This is why I think it would actually be beneficial for me to leave her to it. And I do not want to continue putting my time and effort into something that isn't going to be mine. But right now, I am an owner of this house too and if I don't do all the work, no one will. Argh. W has also called to have a chimney repair done and seems to have no real concern about finances throughout all this. To be expected, I suppose.
I was wondering how many days it would be before W called instead of just texts...today was the day. I don't know if I am handling this correctly. DR pretty plainly says to accept any "warming up" in response to DB, but somehow what I have really learned here tells me I am doing something wrong with these interactions. Anyway, I answered the phone and W wanted to gossip about her family. She said it was too much to text and she was driving so this was better. So she shares the latest scandal and then vents about her sister who apparently has been very demanding in her need for care. She goes on and on about how irritating it is because her sister will say "I'm hungry" and expect her to bring her food, and she's like how the heck am I supposed to know what she wants?? Now, if you look back at many old posts between Sandi and I, you will see that this was a huge problem between her and I because she would do the exact same thing to me! I am sitting there thinking that to myself, and validating, "Yes that must be frustrating". And then I'm shocked because she comes out and acknowledges how she in fact does the same thing to me and says she how sorry she is for it! It wasn't some over the top big deal or anything, but very sincere and natural, and I almost fell out of my chair. I don't know where this behavior is coming from, but it seems positive overall. She is being very, very nice and get this, she is so annoyed with her sister, she is leaving as soon as possible, which means a day earlier than I expected. She says she can't wait to be home, and that she has a lot more to vent to me... I mostly just nodded along to all of this and then told her I had to go for dinner. I don't know what to do about friend zone and if I should be allowing her to vent to me or not.
Everyone always says DB is the same whether there is an A or not...but in this case, I feel like my response changes a lot depending if there is an OM. I still have zero intel whatsoever and no idea. So I think that's why I'm just not exactly sure what is appropriate and what isn't regarding my interaction with her.
44,
A lot of the principles are the same but there is definitely a difference if there is an affair. What you want to do in these situations are listen and validate but cut it short. Always be the first to end the conversation. “Sorry I gotta run I have plans”. Don’t be rude or cold just don’t be available.
Now, if you look back at many old posts between Sandi and I, you will see that this was a huge problem between her and I because she would do the exact same thing to me! I am sitting there thinking that to myself, and validating, "Yes that must be frustrating".
Ahhh young padwan, I hereby elevate you to the position of Validation Master
This is EXACTLY what validation is all about. You're sitting there thinking how crazy what she's saying is, yet outwardly you are being sympathetic, listening and giving her affirmation. WELL DONE! Now as RuPaul says- "don't f*** it up!"
And then I'm shocked because she comes out and acknowledges how she in fact does the same thing to me and says she how sorry she is for it! It wasn't some over the top big deal or anything, but very sincere and natural, and I almost fell out of my chair. I don't know where this behavior is coming from
The behavior is a direct result of your listening and validating. This is exactly how it works. That's the beauty of it. She doesn't want you to fix her, she just wants you to listen and hear her. When you do, she fixes herself.
Thanks, LH. That is what I am trying to do. Be organically unavailable but when she does make contact I am polite, validate, but always detached. She just sent me a message that she is probably coming home today now. Tired of her sister. Now I am really going to have to GAL this weekend.
Thanks for the encouragement, AS! A great pick me up today. Sounds like I will be getting a lot more practice opportunities once she is home so I will keep up the validation with these good results in mind.
Journal time...W is back. So before she got here, her sister called me asking for some details to send flowers to her as a thank you for helping after her surgery. We chatted a bit about how the week went (we are good friends, lived together at one point). I figured it hadn't been great since W was coming back already, but her sister turned to her boyfriend and asked how he would describe W's behavior while she was there and he said "shocking". Apparently there were constant issues and W was impossible to get along with even after attempted apologies, etc. Then she tells me W said we are "possibly getting divorced". Okay I had had enough of that conversation, I don't need any more details messing with my detachment.
I was in bed reading when W arrived. She came in the doorway, asked how I was and says she thinks she's sick. Then she walks across the room and around the bed, says thanks for washing my bedding (her one request before she left, that I probably should have declined) and proceeds to lean down and give me the world's awkwardest hug. Finally she says "well I guess I'll leave you alone" in this fake sounding sad voice and walks out.
Finally she says "well I guess I'll leave you alone" in this fake sounding sad voice and walks out.
Mine was famous for that type of behavior. So later your W will be able to say, "hey I was trying but you were so cold and mean". It is meant to instill guilty feelings in you and control you.
hey 44,
Your W does not sound mentally stable right now. Your SIL and her boyfriend were shocked by W’s behavior.
Instead of focusing on how to get her back, you might want to start protecting yourself. It does not seem like your W will be balanced anytime soon.
I read some Internet articles on Anxious-Avoidant Attachment, plus some other articles on Fear of Intimacy and Fear of Vulnerability. The anxious-avoidant couple did appear to describe your MR. I can't remember your W's childhood problems at the moment. The fear of intimacy might be where she struggles the most, IDK. One point that jumped out at me (cause I was looking for what would cause her to be so controlling) was how critical & nit-picking they can be toward their spouse. The other point I found interesting under the fear of intimacy, was how they self-sabotage their own relationships. The third point I saw that might also fit her, was how they fear commitment. She was doubting the MR before she ever said her vows. They have several short term relationships, rather than long term......due to the fear of intimacy. Of course, they would be huge avoiders, too. It's not that she doesn't want a close relationship, but the fear shuts down her feelings of intimacy. Your W has said there is no "connection" between the two of you.
You could do some research about it and see what the spouse is advised. She may have no idea she fears intimacy...….or how it affects all her relationships. It could explain why she acts the way she does sometimes, but it doesn't give her a license to mistreat people who love her. If she wants things to change for the better, it would require her working closely with the appropriate therapist to face her core emotional fears...….and how to proceed in having a loving, committed, long term MR.
I suppose it may sound as if I'm diagnosing your W, but I'm not qualified. Just wanted you to know that I did follow up on your post about the Anxious-Avoidant Attachment.
Rooskers and T, I think you are both right. Honestly, T, she is not mentally stable right now. But I do not think it is because of some actual breakdown, I think it's because she feels anxious, guilty, and out of control since she has been making such crappy decisions (she goes to the casino every day she is off work, among other things). But who knows. She went on a rant today about how she was ignoring SIL this weekend and she was fed up and done. I asked with what and she had no real answer. Just said she didn't care about what she had to say or her surgery and couldn't believe she still asked for things while W wasn't feeling well when she was there. Remember, SIL has arranged for an elaborate bouquet to be delivered on Tuesday as a thank you. I feel so bad for her honestly. I know that she has not done anything to deserve wrath from W. The stuff W ranted to me today sounded like the same thing she said to me why she wants a divorce. "I don't care about what you talk about", read: I don't care about you. Seems the only one she cares about these days is herself...
Sandi, I appreciate you taking the time to look into anxious-avoidant relationships. For exactly the reasons you listed, I feel it is very descriptive of my MR. Her childhood problems: (I do not know them all as she has vulnerability issues but a decent idea) Addict parents mainly (mom and stepdad from toddler age), a mentally ill/addict biological dad that was in and out and let her down and then died. Some incident she will "never tell another soul" after her mother dismissed it when she told her. She just has no real support system, she is relied on as the golden one of the family to be successful. The only one in her family to never have a drug problem. Her parents are like stoner friends, nothing to really lean on. If anything, they lean on her or used to anyway (they are doing better now, no hard drugs anymore).
I have looked into some of what to do as the spouse in anxious-avoidant and a lot is just understanding the dynamic and being able to self soothe anxiety. Because putting it on them will cause them to withdraw. But the other big thing is moving from "anxiously insecure" to secure attachment. One of the ways to fix the avoidant is to be with someone who is secure. Of course this rarely happens, because typically secure matches with secure and they have a better shot at this than the rest of us. But if I can work on myself and move more toward secure and less anxious, that seems like the best use of my energy. I start IC tomorrow, finally! Can't wait.
I have some journaling about the weekend, but I will have to post it later. It's likely all trivial anyway. But the summary is I did well with GAL, so I'm happy about that. W was nosy and jealous as predicted.
Okay, the big thing for me right now is my patience. I cannot get the A possibility out of my mind. Like I know that has to be it. She is totally different than last time, verryyyy smooth. But that is to be expected right? I mean, she isn't a stupid person. And she keeps her phone very close to her chest, literally, and as noted in a prior post it's like she goes out of her way to make it appear innocent. Reading texts out loud, never texting when I'm in the room etc. So I snooped a tiny bit while she was in the shower tonight. Just checked her phone for any notifications. There was a message from some guy's name I don't know who it is. I did not read it, didn't even check if she has changed her password. I have been trying so hard not to snoop, but that is enough for me to conclude all right here and now. I just need to know for sure. If I had proof, I would walk in right now and tell her to pack her sh!t and find somewhere else to stay while she is having an A. Not negotiable. Last year it took my like three weeks to prepare for a confrontation. But I don't think I am starting from square one, I hope. Thoughts, everyone?? Should I bluff? Snoop more and get proof? I am trying to be detached and detached people do not pay attention to these things. So I could just never know. But IHS is torturous and after knowing what three months of it feels like, starting it again is freaking me out. A part of me STILL cannot believe it.
Maybe I am paranoid...I think I figured out who the guy is. It's a coworker (I only know them by last name). She stayed at his house the night she left. But he is married and his W is there. I do not think there would be anything weird between them, but I am not naive. The only thing hanging me up is this guy was not there while she was away, so it doesn't really fit. May be a false alarm.
I am trying to be detached and detached people do not pay attention to these things. So I could just never know.
The first time my wife had an affair I went through everything you talked about and it was on my mind every second of the day. I thought if I just knew then it would be over and I would move on but then she admitted it and it was still on my mind and I still didn't want her to leave. We reconciled for 11 years and it took 5 years for it to pretty much not be on my mind some part of the day. Then she BD me again and all the memories of what she did last time came cascading back.
Second time around I got the whole ILYBNILWY and knew if was likely an affair again. I started detaching and let go of the needing to know about the possible affair. I can tell you from knowing the first time and not knowing the second time, it has been so much easier to detach and move forward with the not knowing and now not even caring.
Assume it is an affair and move forward.
44,
If it a 100 percent deal breaker for you then you should snoop to find out. What we don't recommend is snooping after you know because then it just becomes a pain inflicting obsession.
If it's not a deal breaker then do not snoop.
44,
Just caught up on your last post. Your W sounds very similar to mine regarding her childhood trauma, addictions (and if she's gambling every time she has a day off, make no mistake - she's an addict) etc.
I would really encourage you to take a step back from your R with W at the moment and explore your codependency while in therapy. My concern for both of us is that while DB'ing is great at improving things, I think you are overlooking all the red flags in regards to W's mental stability, track record and traumas Some of those things will not change until your W realizes they are issues for her AND then decides she would like to tackle her issues in therapy (which could take years).
As you know, I have been NC with my W since she left me. And I'm starting to realize some things as I've started to honestly assess my relationship with W. While I am clearly far from perfect and have lots of codependency issues, my W (and yours it appears), are oblivious to their issues. And I worry that unless our W's decide to look inward at their issues, this is what we can both expect going forward (honeymoon periods, followed by complacency, then conflict, then another bomb - rinse, wash, repeat).
For me, the 4th bomb (can't believe it took me so long!) was enough to make me realize that there are patterns that I simply do not have any control over. No matter how hard I DB, or work on myself in therapy, or GAL, I am still only 50% of the equation. This pattern is bound to repeat itself over and over again, nothing changes unless something changes.
I'm curious how you met your W. What was she like when you met her?
Rooskers--thank you for sharing that, it's super valuable advice coming from your experience. I think that's what I'm going to do my best to do is assume it's an A. I think she has changed all her passwords and she sleeps with her phone. I don't know how I would even snoop if I wanted to. I will just be keeping my eyes wide open, I guess.
Thanks for your thoughts, T. I too am done with the cycle. I agree with you about the concern over my W's behavior and stability. It is so hard for me because it is like a phase shift. What happened to the W I had last month, you know? And then when you have been through the cycle repeatedly, it's even more confusing because you have seen it come and go and come again! It's so hard for me to give up on my W. Partly because it's so hard for me to believe she is this person.
I'm curious how you met your W. What was she like when you met her?
I met my W through mutual friends. It was after college when I had gotten a job and was still living in the big city. We fell in love very fast, it was like we had already known each other. She was very giving and loving at that time. She still is very giving in some ways as this is a huge part of her personality, but she has the problem of giving out of obligation and then feeling resentment. Back then, the resentment wasn't there so it was all good. I always sensed she struggled with vulnerability, but for some reason that is alluring to me (something for IC). So at first we were both enthralled and there were no problems. But it wasn't long before she started with her fear of being too close and committing. She would be conflicted, she wanted it but it caused a lot of negative emotions for her, for whatever reason. Likely because she is avoidant, as I discussed with Sandi in a prior post. So the relationship became fragile due to that and I was never able to feel secure. I knew I loved her and was committed on my side, but it became not enough to just give her the benefit of the doubt. I thought when we got married and moved overseas, she had decided to commit and move past some of her issues with it. And maybe that's what she intended. But I don't think she has done the work to move past them. So it just sits and we have this perpetual instability from bomb drops and her split personality when it comes to what she wants.
I have gone to IC two days in a row now, due to a chance opening (otherwise she is very booked). My IC is against the idea of me getting a job. She says I need to finish school through until May to get my master's and be done. She suggests I remain 'roommates' with W until then. She said a divorce takes three months from whenever it is initiated, which hasn't happened, and asked would W agree to it. Uh, probably not and I'm certainly not about to ask her. I am new and there is only so much time to have given her background, so I don't know how much she grasps or perceives at this point. She keeps suggesting W comes in with me and W can share what she wants and isn't getting, where it is clearly communicated. I told her we are nowhere near that point. I know exactly how W feels right now and she isn't going to come anyway. But she fully endorses GAL and says this should be my focus. I remain in my role taking care of the house and dogs and my schoolwork in exchange for room and board basically, and use the rest of my time to make new friends and hobbies. She suggests climbing as it is indoors for winter and requires a partner. Overall, I like her a lot and I feel comfortable talking to her, which I think is important. But we are still at the very beginning.
I don't think my detachment is going well. I have dreams about W every night, which has never happened before. Sometimes they are nightmares where she is monstrous and terrible things happen; others, everything is fixed and has a happy ending. It's disturbing and indicating I need to work a lot harder. We all know it is very hard to detach with IHS and I just need to keep saying to myself GAL, GAL, GAL. I have all day at home without W and as she stated in one of the R talks, she does not want to have to always come home and have me there. There is no reason I need to be and my detachment will be so much better for it.
In actual DBing news, I think I am still doing well with non-pursuit and GAL and it has produced some positive results. She was very surprised to hear I had started therapy (she was off work yesterday and asked where I went). I have been spending time reconnecting with friends even if it's long distance phone calls, and also meeting new local friends on a social app. I'm hoping I can actually make some real plans this week with one of them. But between that and schoolwork, I don't really have much extra time to worry about W. W was hanging around yesterday literally not knowing what to do with herself. She wanted to talk to me and kept interrupting me while I worked against a deadline. Ultimately, she talked herself into going to the casino (again, because she has somehow managed not to lose her money the past couple times). But, she then made a few hints and asked my what time my assignment was due because she wanted me to go with her. Two weeks ago she was telling me she would rather go alone. I told her I couldn't sorry, best of luck. She lost. When she got back, she actually did SOMETHING and cleaned her stuff she has left in the living room and also moved an old dresser into the guest room so that she can officially move in there. She told me the bathroom downstairs is her bathroom now, but she was kind of laughing and I don't think this implied I wasn't allowed to use it. It's almost like she just wants to make some statement, to rub it in my face and make sure I get the picture. But most of the time she is nice. And has not brought up any kind of R or D talk. So I am just putting my head down and trying to run this marathon.
O man, W just texted me asking if I have had any thoughts about the plan, what's happening next. I don't know what to say.
I will need some time to think about it
Tell her you’ve been busy and haven’t had a chance to think about it. Then put the ball back in her court and ask what here thoughts are.
Remember to stay cool and calm. And if she puts you on the spot, tell her you need to think about things and will follow up later.
Be strong, 44. You got this.
Thanks, you guys. She texted again before any response from me...that she is thinking of going to the courthouse today or tomorrow to get papers and what are my thoughts. Now I'm really freaking.
You have no control over her. And even if you did begin the divorce process, you can still turn things around.
It’s going to be critical that you act cool and calm though. No begging, crying, trying to talk her out of things.
I will definitely not beg or try to talk her out of it. She wants to have an open discussion, but I cannot trust that. It doesn't work, she has already gone way past the line of communicating about this maturely and forming a realistic plan. Instead she BDs, expects some overnight change that uproots my life to happen when she has made legal commitments. Do i tell her this? So far, I have said "I am not comfortable with the situation. You have made many large unilateral decisions without my input at all. I feel the need to protect myself first and foremost". She replied she feels very uncomfortable as well and that's why she wants to talk about a plan that makes us both comfortable...
She has once again pushed me for to go finish school while living with family. She said she will continue financial support, why can't I go do that. Well, the answer is that then I am the one to pay the price for her going back on every promise she ever made. I can say I will think about it but it has been weeks and we will right back here again.
I think I would let her talk but would not show her my cards at this point. See what she has to say and then tell her you need some time to think about things. You do not want to commit to anything when you are feeling emotional.
I would probably line up a few free consultations with attorneys in the meantime.
I know this isn't what you want man, but look at your history with W. This is who she is. It took me a long time to get to the point where I was seeing my W objectively and the more time and space I have from her, the more I realize that she's not a good partner. She's a runner and so is your W, that's not a good recipe for a long and successful relationship.
I was able to get my W back after the 3rd bomb but I wish I would have let her go at that point. One year later and we are in the same exact scenario.
Think long and hard if you truly want your W back after another BD. The best predictor of future behavior, is past behavior.
You are right, T. But even I wanted to file myself today, I am in a bad position. I'm less than a year from finishing my degree. If I go back to work, that is all delayed. I either truly have to go live with my grandmother, take out a loan, or W [censored] it up and we do fair trade as roommates until I graduate. The first two options, to put it bluntly, SUCK. At least here, I can have some independence and motivation to GAL. Continue seeing my IC and the parts of my life that are not burning. Moving back to my home state to live with family will be emotionally devastating. Am I just making excuses? I really don't know. I just am so frustrated with how W has handled all this, I don't want to do anything to make it easier for her, especially something that puts me out.
I told her I was not comfortable going to live with family and she replied "something needs to happen." I have not responded...
Please start a new thread and link your threads together.