This is going to be hard to type out but to get the most help I can I will lay everything out and go from there.
First me and my wife have been married 11 years, and been together 16. We were each other’s first love and met just out of highschool, went through college together, got married, have good jobs, have 4 little girls (10, 7, 5, 3), built a house, you know the “Dream”, which it really was until I destroyed it.
Our marriage wasn’t bad, but we had some arguments, like everyone, but about two years ago I really started getting depressed about our relationship. As stated, we have four girls, it got to the point where I gave baths, cooked supper, got them ready for school/daycare, dropped them off, picked them up, ect. Of course, she helped sometimes, but I easily did 75%. We also have a small farm and some cattle, so there is always work to be done. It got to the point where I felt really unappreciated, she never said that she appreciated me, sex life was boring and stale, her job always came first, I always pushed her and supported her in everything she wanted to do. Her parents use to call her my princess and even my wife has said many times I have always had her on a pedestal. Her mom told me for years that I was creating a monster, with the amount I did for her, how I took care of things, bills, kids, building a bigger house than I wanted, ect. If the kids acted out, I took care of that, weather at school events, family events, church. I didn’t think anything about it, I loved my wife and my family. Anyway, we started fighting more and more, over the same issues, (about splitting responsibilities more fairly), Nothing changed, mainly because I would give in, and bottle things up, then I would explode, which of course got us nowhere.
I had become friends with my secretary, totally innocent, might text outside of work once a week. Visit about kids, my wife, my family, whatever. Told her of the fun things we and my wife would do, I always talked about her. Then as we get to know each other a little better I started making the mistake of complaining about my wife or relationship, partially because she did that quite often. At first, I even acted like I knew what she was talking about or whatever, even if I didn’t because I didn’t want her to feel bad about her relationship when mine was pretty good. Over time though she started validating my feelings of things being unfair in my marriage, and she would say how wonderful a dad and husband I was, and she couldn’t understand how my wife couldn’t see that and treat me accordingly. So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.
Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence. I could see no faults with her, and I vilified my wife and our entire relationship. My affair quickly took off and I completely checked out from my wife for a year. I threatened divorce all the time, did as I pleased, when I pleased, which wasn’t how I have ever acted, was mean verbally to my wife, I was just a horrible person. Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair. She believed I wouldn’t/couldn’t ever do that to her. I didn’t think I could either. Anyway, October 2018 we went out with some friends, and had a late night, while out my phone started going off like crazy around midnight from my affair partner, my wife keeps asking who’s calling course I lie, (I had her name saved under a fake name), anyway get home, go to bed, she waits me out, goes through my phone, and rightfully so losses her head. After a few hours of yelling, crying, talking, denial, admission, things start getting calmed down. Luckily in the text messages she had seen where I had tried several times to tell my affair I didn’t want to divorce, I didn’t want to destroy my kids stable home, I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.
So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids. My wife somehow understood this, and we talked about things, and I assured her I loved her and I was where I wanted to be. After a few months’ things improved dramatically, and after 3- or 4-months post affair, we both agreed our marriage was better than ever. We had 1 mutual friend that walked in on a conversation, so we told him about everything and he was a great support system for me and my wife both. My wife told him so many times that she wished the affair never happened, but our marriage was better that ever and she couldn’t remember being so happy. We put each other and our marriage first, took a cruise, spent toms of time together, sex life became better than our entire relationship. Truthfully, I thought I had survived and now my life was flourishing. My wife took on a new happiness that hadn’t been there since I can remember, we were like kids in love. We flirted, we touched, we smiled, we talked and communicated, things seemed perfect. Occasionally some memory or trigger would happen and she would have a rough day, I would ask her what she needed from me, and she a lot of times would ask me if I really wanted her, If I really loved her, that I didn’t stay because of guilt, I would confirm all those thing, tell her it was never her, it was me, and then after a day or two things were good again. But those episodes got fewer and fewer.
THEN, We go out with some friends one night and a customer/acquittance of mine went with us, I wouldn’t call him a friend, but he would call and text me occasionally outside of our business relationship, knew the names of my kids, as I did his. Would occasionally stop by the house if he drove by. He is divorced and the rumor was he ran around on his wife for years, married her twice, but has always been a womanizer. Well that night he sat around and just kept going on and on about how bad his wife did him over, that she cheated on him, that he just couldn’t get over it, even four years after they divorced. All he ever wanted was the simple life, ect, ect. Night ends we all go our separate ways, well then a few days later he starts texting my wife about bringing our girls to his pool sometime when he had his kids. Then asked my wife, who he had only met two or three days previous, that he had heard I had an affair and if we were ok. Then started playing on him going through the same thing because that was what his wife did to him and telling her that the pain would never go away.
I caught on 3 or 4 days into this, wife comes clean about everything say she realizes that he was playing on her fears, telling her she was beautiful, that this other girl didn’t hold a candle to her, that all he wanted was to marry his best friend, that she was a rare girl, that he could see himself loving her. All just filled her head full of lies and BS. So she stops contacting him, apologizes like crazy, says she loves me only me, and will do anything to make it work. We go back to being good for another month, its in the past, I still feel like I am making up for my wrong doings so I don’t even bring this thing up. Then June 19th, my wife text me, “I’m done, I cant do this anymore”. This other man had text her and told her the girl I had an affair with was pregnant and thought it could be mine. It was a totally fabricated lie. I ended up getting to how it started and that person even reached out to my wife and told her it was all a lie, but it didn’t matter it was a downhill from there. A month later(July 23rd, While on family vacation) she demanded separation when we got home, said it was just for her to get some space, I moved out ( I can’t afford the house), we figure out kid arrangements, and the night after I move out she goes and sees this other man and stays the night, and since I left, every time she doesn’t have our kids she stays the night. She got me out so she could turn her emotional affair into a physical one, and maybe be less guilty because we were separated so that made it ok.
I am reading The Divorce Remedy, I have one of their coaches, I’m going to a marital councilor. Im still reeling from everything because 2 weeks before she told me to get out, she told me she was overwhelmed but loved me and never was leaving. I seen a text on her phone with this her and the OM expressing their love for each other and that was 3 days after I moved out and only about a month of them talking. This morning I go out to get our girls ready for school even though its her day because she has an early meeting and laying in the bathroom trash can is a pregnancy test, thank god its negative, but I am losing my mind. This last 45 days since she kicked me out has been crazy.
All she talks about is divorce now, we have split money and are living separate lives as far as bills and money go. She goes from hating me, to telling me she always wants me in her life and to always be friends. Says she loves and cares for me, and always will, but just cant get over the affair. She cant see that she is doing the exact same thing. Before leaving and I knew she was talking to this other man she told me, “what if he is my soul mate”. Told me all the happiness in the last year was all just faked, that she wished it was real. All our friends and family thought it was real.
This man has done this to 3 or 4 other marriages I have found out. And the messages she showed me when I first discovered it in May is like a perfect script to playing on someone’s fears and hurt. Additionally while the weekend she was telling me to move out he was trying to get the girls number I had an affair with(small communities), so clearly he wasn’t madly in love like my wife thinks she is. I am trying to do the right things, I truly believe this wont last as #1, he doesn’t even see his own kids hardly, and I have 4 girls under 10, he doesn’t want them, #2 He has a long history of being a womanizer, #3 I completely believe she is in limerence the same as I was. She has totally changed everything she believes in in a matter of weeks.
She blames me for everything now, says its my fault she ever even talked to another man, that if I wouldn’t have had an affair, she never would have done this. I have made all the mistakes of begging and moving out, and believing what she says, telling her I love her, I mean all the mistakes until I started reading and getting the coaches advice, and listening to pod cast. She makes statements all the time that make it obvious that she doesn’t think she is in the wrong, that she was justified because I moved out before she ever seen him. Although she was sending photos to him, talking constantly, she was in full blown emotional affair. One time before telling me we were separating asked me how long before these feeling for this other man would go away?
Even after we separated she said to me, "why couldn't have you loved me like this 3 or 4 months ago?". Well until the OM entered the picture she never had even uttered the word divorce or separation. I thought we were good, she never opened up with the amount of pain she was still dealing with, but she did to the OM and of course he told her that would only stop if she got rid of me.
I will say I accept full responsibility for my action, I have since day one of my affair coming out. At this point she doesn't accept any responsibility, acts like she is justified, but I understand that. I use my therapist acronym in all interactions: LUVER Listen. Understand. Validate. Empathize. Repeat.
So what are my chances? Please ask any questions for clarification or if you want more, I feel like this is already to long.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi JC08,
Says she loves and cares for me, and always will, but just cant get over the affair. She cant see that she is doing the exact same thing.
I don't see these as equivalent. You had a 1+ year secret physical and emotional affair. Your wife told you the marriage was over, and only after you chose to leave, she began a new physical relationship.
I get your ex-wife fell in love with OM the last month you were together. That was a betrayal.
Occasionally.. she a lot of times would ask me if I really wanted her, If I really loved her, that I didn’t stay because of guilt..
If she's anything like me, she felt this far more than she vocalized this. Yesterday my partner saw her IC, was too tired to talk most of the day, and send me lots of loving words and emojis. A part of me can't help but think, "That's what she did the last time she betrayed me by moving out days after saying she never would." You also say she believes in soulmates, and that you have a PA/EA goes against that notion.
THEN, We go out with some friends one night and a customer/acquittance of mine went with us
Oof. Bad timing to encounter a predator.
Advantage #1 you have over the average person is you know this is a marathon. Your PA/EA lasted over a year, it took you 3-4 months to get over it, and the betrayed partner obviously needed even longer.
Advantage #2 You know OM is a serial womanizer who's done this 4x before. The statistician in me wonders, how long do those usually last? Who ends it? Why? Past history is often a good indicator.
Hi JC. Your sitch and mine are very similar. Try to read all DR book and links that Cadet posted. Take your time, control yourself.
I´m the WWH in my story. I felt for OW what you felt for yours. Made the same mistakes, said the same things, felt the same feelings. The soul mate fog. All limerance fueled. I saw the light of my W and I was able to take the road home. I´m there now. And I´m also here. I survived waywardness when I found this forum. People here is pure gold.
Start working on yourself. Keep reading, keep posting. The goal is to get into amoafwl (a man only a fool would leave). Be the best father for your kids. Do all that for yourself. Get into a grown up man.
Start DB. Apply the basics. Keep asking, keep moving forward.
Help is here JC. Trust the process.
Patience, hope, DB
Hi JC08,
[quote="JC08"]Says she loves and cares for me, and always will, but just cant get over the affair. She cant see that she is doing the exact same thing.
I don't see these as equivalent. You had a 1+ year secret physical and emotional affair. Your wife told you the marriage was over, and only after you chose to leave, she began a new physical relationship.
I get your ex-wife fell in love with OM the last month you were together. That was a betrayal.
Well When she told me that we needed to separate, she said that it was just to get space and, she said it was for us to work on the marriage. We had went to MC, our first session, and she told the therapist that she wanted our marriage, but was afraid she would have these feelings and fear forever. The therapist explained how we would work through thing, talked about EMDR, and asked my wife if fixing our marriage was our goal. So I was surprised when she asked me to move out, but I actually assumed, because she promised me that she wasn't thinking about divorce, she just needed some space. I left on Wednesday, She went to see OM Thursday, the first night I had the kids. I guess at the time I thought I was doing things to give her space and our marriage was still the focus.
But I am fully aware that they are not on the same level. I wished she would have opened up to me about where she was really at. I stupidly thought things were great, if I would have known how she felt I would have asked about MC, I would have researched more, but I was dumb by not seeing how to actually repair from an affair, I thought it was behind us.
My wife just text me, "Do you think I'll ever completely get over this? I can't watch a show with cheating without breaking down. It's almost been a year"
How do I respond and show empathy, but also relay that I want to do anything to help her. That I can be the man she always believed I was. Or do I just stick to the validate and empathize and tell her how sorry I am.
Now two weeks ago she told me that she was happy, and she didn't even think of Samantha anymore(The OW). Clearly that isn't the case.
Thank you so much for the replies. I have been reading all day!
. I guess at the time I thought I was doing things to give her space and our marriage was still the focus.
Oof. There are several people here whose sitch's involved cheating and the repercussions--some who've restored their marriages. You'll get good advice here. It's human to err. I'm sorry you're going through this.
Speak with ACTIONS not words.
Hi JC, it sounds like the affair you had was resolved between the two of you and that things were fine afterwards. You both even said "better than ever". So I think she's using that as an excuse now for her wayward behavior. Don't buy into it.
You've done a lot of things right already it sounds like. You've read DR, you have a DB coach, you're giving her time and space. That's all great. Don't pursue her AT ALL. Leave her be. This affair of hers will fizzle out and she'll have to face why she went down this road. If you effectively remove yourself from the picture then she will hopefully face down her own demons and quit blaming you for everything. But that is HER journey to make and you can't speed it up, you can only get out of the way. If you try to intervene you are just going to slow her journey down. So leave her be. Get out and GAL. Be the best "you" that you can be. Be patient, these things take a long time to resolve!
I´m the WWH in my story. I felt for OW what you felt for yours. Made the same mistakes, said the same things, felt the same feelings. The soul mate fog. All limerance fueled. I saw the light of my W and I was able to take the road home. I´m there now. And I´m also here. I survived waywardness when I found this forum. People here is pure gold.
I wish I didn't have the knowledge to understand what she is feeling and going through, but sadly I do. I didn't know what limerance was until after her thing started. Its like a script to my affair and to hers. She has became such a incredibly different person in such a short time, the same as I did. It is such a powerful influence on everything you do. I remember her to begging and pleading to give her a chance to fix our marriage when I was in my affair, it did it just pushed me away more, it just made my heart harder towards her.
So as I navigate this time period I try to remember how I felt, how I acted, how even in the beginning of my affair I only seen the happiness, I only felt that high, I couldn't see what I was going to lose, what I had, What I would do to my wife and children, I was just selfish but somehow felt justified. I try to keep this in mind though that I came out of the fog, I seen reality, I remembered the love for my wife.
There was a long period of time during my affair that if my wife would have walked away I wouldn't have cared, I was so sure this OW was the one, I was so sure my wife didn't love me, I was just so sure. Once I came back out of orbit and into reality I fell so deeply in love with my wife, it seriously felt like we had the marriage we both always wanted. we didn't fight or argue for months, we communicated, we shared, we resolved, we had fun, we put our marriage front and center. Makes where we are now hurt a little more, but only I can control my emotions and actions moving forward.
Thanks for all the replies.
Exactly. Those same feelings. OW addiction.
Pacience man. Validate what needs to be validated but try to stay away from MR talks. Your W is the WW now. Let the fire consume the oxygen.
Keep DB. Stay strong there.
So a thing I struggle with some is where to draw the line on doing things that help her. As stated we have 4 kids, there has been 3 times already since I moved out where she had a 7 am meeting and has the kids. So I go out, wake the kids up, get them ready, take them to school and babysittiter.
Is this just enabling her? I mean this is part of the divorce she wants, shouldn't she gave to figure out that there is consequences for leaving, for divorce. I go and do it because I feel like it keeps me in good light, but she says thanks, but that's it. Doesn't talk to me when I get there, doesn't say have a good day, nothing, like it is just expected of me. I had no problem when we were together, but she wants to change that. Thoughts?
You need to stand for your children. But you need to share responsibilities. You don’t push that in orden to control her. Make arrangements to share those chores. Remember you need to detach and do your own things. You need to GAL.
There’s a long road ahead man. Keep the pace.
Go!
I picked my kids up Friday evening and then dropped them back off at 5 on Sunday. During that time she never contacted the kids, no text or phone calls. She sent me 2 text all weekend, one on Saturday morning asking if I was getting lots of friend request from girls on Facebook, just responded no. (Thought it was weird of her to ask, I did see she removed that she is married from FB). Then Sunday asked if I was still planning on 5pm drop off, which I just replied, "that is my plan".
So I drop the kids off, walk in the house, when I see her I looked at her smiled and said "hey, how are you?", and then went on telling my girls bye. Got done with that and said ok girls I got to go, have a few things to go do, and headed to toward the door. Said, " Okay see you later, hope the girls are good". Then she started in with, really, this is how we are going to be? we are just not going to talk? I just kept calm and said well you didn't talk to me all weekend just giving you the space I thought you wanted from me(She was with the OM, all weekend, you could tell she hadn't been home, and there was a big stack of clothes in her front seat), . She then said, "we have four girls to raise, we have to talk" I asked her if there was something to talk about with the kids? She said no, but you don't just have to drop them off and run off. Maybe this is bad, I don't know. I just respond, "this is your choice, and Im just trying to give you the space you asked for"
She screamed "My Choice!, You think this is my choice!!". So I just calmly said I'm not going to argue and I am going to leave. She calls me a jackass. I told her just to call or text me later if she had something with the kids but I needed to get going. She screamed, "fine have it your way"She stormed off and I left.
20 minutes later she text:
W: We have a lot of years raising girls ahead of us. I wish you could talk to me.
Me:I understand why you feel that way but you didn't ask me anything? You didn't talk all weekend, im just trying to give you the space you need from me.
W: I just didn't think talking for 30 seconds was a big deal. You run out of here like Im going to beat you. You act scared of me, I don't want that.
I didn't respond to that.
How could I have handled that better. I never raised my voice, acted defensive, or argued. I just wanted to drop my kids off and go. She acts like we are supposed to be best friends and wants to talk. I can't be best friends with her when all I want is my marriage back, and I am still 100% in love and emotionally attached.
And to top it off, has no problem asking me to be there to get the girls ready tomorrow morning because she has an early meeting again.
Keep reading. All your questions are there in Cadet’s post. Keep detaching, go dark and don’t get into MR talks.
You need to be consistent with your attitude. Less words, more DB
GAL, keep posting.
Time and patience. You are at the beggining of your new life. Be there.
So I drop the kids off, walk in the house, when I see her I looked at her smiled and said "hey, how are you?", and then went on telling my girls bye. Got done with that and said ok girls I got to go, have a few things to go do, and headed to toward the door. Said, " Okay see you later, hope the girls are good". Then she started in with, really, this is how we are going to be? we are just not going to talk? I just kept calm and said well you didn't talk to me all weekend just giving you the space I thought you wanted from me(She was with the OM, all weekend, you could tell she hadn't been home, and there was a big stack of clothes in her front seat), . She then said, "we have four girls to raise, we have to talk" I asked her if there was something to talk about with the kids? She said no, but you don't just have to drop them off and run off. Maybe this is bad, I don't know. I just respond, "this is your choice, and Im just trying to give you the space you asked for"
You handled it well, the reason you are confused is her negative reaction. The problem is nothing you do right now is going to get a positive reaction from her. She's looking for any reason at all to lash out. So just keep doing your thing and giving her that time and space. From now on I would suggest a small adjustment though, don't say "I'm just trying to give you the space you asked for" say "I think we both need time and space to think things through" or "I just need some time and space for a while". Because if you tell her you're giving her what she asked for then she's going to insist you don't understand, you're wrong, you're making things more difficult, blah blah blah. She's got to think you're moving on and doing things for YOU. If YOU need time and space from her, then she can't argue with that.
How could I have handled that better. I never raised my voice, acted defensive, or argued. I just wanted to drop my kids off and go. She acts like we are supposed to be best friends and wants to talk. I can't be best friends with her when all I want is my marriage back, and I am still 100% in love and emotionally attached.
You handled it fine, and yes, you should just drop the kids off and leave. You don't want to be her BFF while she's engaging in an affair, that's just letting her cake-eat. Plus like you said you are still attached, so you need that time and space as much as she does.
Thank you for the support and the replies.
Still keeping contact to a minimum. She text me again, her text are all over the place.
W: I don't want you to hate me more, so please don't think I'm telling you what to do, but the kids will be ok if we are ok. I think they need to see us be able to talk for 5 seconds when we do drop off. I think they pick up talking to me is painful.
Me: I don't hate you, I don't even dislike you. I wouldn't go out of my way to help with kids or let you make rude comments to me and not respond if I hate you.
W: I don't mean to blow up at you all the time. I'm Sorry.
End of conversation.
The only reason the kids knew anything was because she got hateful and loud, which got their attention, plus if not engaging in conversation, detaching, ect can help break through the WAW mindset and give me the chance to repair our relationship in the future, then I would rather the kids deal with not seeing us interact much for a year, then go a lifetime of divorced parents.
Additionally, I'm happy, up beat, don't act bothered for the few minutes, so I don't get where she is saying the thing about the pain, I don't let her see any of that. She keeps asking me if I am okay, I just respond Yep!, I mean I'm not, but I don't want her to know that.
I went to therapy last night, my therapist keeps telling me that we cant know what she is thinking or what she is going to do, but that she keeps saying and doing things of someone who is not really done, that she wants to believe she is, but her actions and words say things differently. Additionally she keeps letting some of her pain out towards me, my therapist tells me that is a good thing because it shows her not completely moved on.
She knows that I go to therapy, but not when. We live in a small town, so I literally have to drive two hours to Kansas city to a therapist, so its quite the process, makes for a long day but I do think it is teaching me how to deal with some emotions in a healthy way and will hopefully contribute to me becoming AMOAFWL.
While in therapy my WAW sent my mom the following text: Is Justin doing okay? I mean all things considered. This whole situation is far less than ideal. nothing I ever dreamed we would have to deal with. He won't talk to me and I get that I'm not who he wants to talk to but I still worry about him.
It almost makes me angry! Its not ideal!, so stop this, and lets get to WORK!!! I know that is logic, so it doesn't matter, I just need this A to die and in the mean time work on me and hopefully she'll think about putting our lives and family back together at some point.
W: I don't want you to hate me more, so please don't think I'm telling you what to do, but the kids will be ok if we are ok. I think they need to see us be able to talk for 5 seconds when we do drop off. I think they pick up talking to me is painful.
Me: I don't hate you, I don't even dislike you. I wouldn't go out of my way to help with kids or let you make rude comments to me and not respond if I hate you.
W: I don't mean to blow up at you all the time. I'm Sorry.
End of conversation.
You're doing well at cutting these short and not letting her draw you into a relationship talk. But next time don't defend yourself "You hate me!" "No I don't!" Just stick to business. "If there is something about the kids that you want to discuss then I will be happy to do so."
I went to therapy last night, my therapist keeps telling me that we cant know what she is thinking or what she is going to do, but that she keeps saying and doing things of someone who is not really done, that she wants to believe she is, but her actions and words say things differently. Additionally she keeps letting some of her pain out towards me, my therapist tells me that is a good thing because it shows her not completely moved on.
This is typical of WAS's. They want out but there is a nagging doubt that they are doing the wrong thing, so sometimes they'll put mixed signals out there.
While in therapy my WAW sent my mom the following text: Is Justin doing okay? I mean all things considered. This whole situation is far less than ideal. nothing I ever dreamed we would have to deal with. He won't talk to me and I get that I'm not who he wants to talk to but I still worry about him.
Tell your mom and anyone else your W may contact to tell her you are doing fine. You're not responding to your W's temperature checks so now she's going behind your back to check on you.
I just need this A to die and in the mean time work on me and hopefully she'll think about putting our lives and family back together at some point.
Well it's not just a matter of the A ending. She's got to learn and grow and transform from this experience. She may do that or she may not. Some A's end and the WAS just immediately pursued OM2 and OM3, etc. You have no control over that. All you can so is be the spouse only a fool would leave so that if she looks back she'll see that. And if she leaves anyway well then she is a fool and do you want to be married to a fool?
Is your secretary (the OW) still working with you?
Our marriage wasn’t bad, but we had some arguments, like everyone, but about two years ago I really started getting depressed about our relationship. As stated, we have four girls, it got to the point where I gave baths, cooked supper, got them ready for school/daycare, dropped them off, picked them up, ect. Of course, she helped sometimes, but I easily did 75%.
Is your W employed? In spite of her parent's warning, you chose to place your W on a pedestal while taking on 75% of the chores. I might understand the outside work, farm animals, etc., but I'm curious as to why you were persistent in leaving her with little to do. Is your love language acts of service?
I suspect your W will expect you to continue 75% of the work, b/c you have spoiled her and she will struggle just learning how to put on her big girl panties all by herself.
I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids.........since you always took care of everything. As time progresses, you will probably see a lot more anger that you don't understand. Just look in the mirror and remember you created this
princess. I think she'll want you over there to help every evening that she is "stuck" with caring for the kids and being responsible for all that work she's never had to do. I mean, she may not know what bills to pay or when, etc. IMHO, it is a disservice to his W when a H leaves nothing for her to do. Hopefully, she has the type of personality where she'll dive in and be determined to learn how to handle running the house..........but, we'll see. Once you reconcile, be smart and don't pick up 75% of the work again.
Okay, so about your affair. Was it physical?
My wife took on a new happiness that hadn’t been there since I can remember, we were like kids in love. We flirted, we touched, we smiled, we talked and communicated, things seemed perfect. Occasionally some memory or trigger would happen and she would have a rough day, I would ask her what she needed from me, and she a lot of times would ask me if I really wanted her, If I really loved her, that I didn’t stay because of guilt, I would confirm all those thing, tell her it was never her, it was me, and then after a day or two things were good again. But those episodes got fewer and fewer.
You thought you were seeing your W take on a new happiness, but in reality, she was competing with the secretary....or an OW#2 in the future, if she (your W) wasn't enough for you. She wanted to present herself and your MR as so wonderful that you would never consider another woman/affair. But her pain and low self esteem was there.......she just wouldn't show it to you, except in those times she desperately needed reassurance. This is just MHO, of course. Perhaps the reason these times of reassurances became less, was b/c her pain was shifting to anger.
I may change my mind once we have more information, but at the moment, I feel your W is having a revenge affair. I think she was so affected by your betrayal that she wanted you to experience the pain she has suffered. When ole smooth talker (OM) appeared, he fit the job description.........that's all.
Long road ahead, so I hope you stick around.
Well when we started dating, I just naturally started doing everything I could for her, but I have always been like that. Someone need help or you see where you could help out, you stepped in and did. Like I said from a small town(500 people) and its just kinda what you did, or I did. So when we started dating, it just came naturally, we both lived with our parents when we started dating, we were 18, fresh out of high school. I help her parents with projects all the time, one I like work, I'm handy, and she loved I was hard working and got along with her parents.
I guess as we progressed in our relationship, I just continued that. I would help and push her when she got stressed. She applied for Pharmacy School, which is a competitive school to get into, shed get overwhelmed with the stress of getting in, so I did anything I could to take stress away, then she got into Pharmacy School and we moved into separate apartments, I was in college about 30 minutes away, both of us 2 hours from home. The trend continued, Stress jumped up in Pharmacy School, there was a decent failure rate, she had always been straight A's and things came easy, Pharmacy School was not that, she had to work her ass off, and I just did what I could anywhere I could. I guess that trend continued on through school, and into marriage. I was the fixer, right after getting married she had a year of medical rotations, which meant she worked all week out of town(we moved back home), made no money, had to stay at hotels and eat out every night, and I was just starting my job and pay wasn't great, so I got a second job, I mean she had built up six figure student loan debt, fresh married, broke, and seemed like we were scraping by, so I did what I need to as the husband and provider, I worked, told her not to worry about things, I would take care of it. Second month into her rotations third month into marriage, 6 weeks into first baby, she miscarried, it hit me hard, we were sticking to our plans of school, marriage, babies, careers, happy life, Then that happened. She was devastated, and felt like a failure. I did what I needed to and lifted her up, support her. Again I just tried to insulate and support her, and not give her the stresses I had, felt like she didn't need anymore. I guess that continued on for the next 10 years, until I decided I wasn't going to do it anymore, I wanted some feedback, some appreciation, not from other people that gave it to me sometimes just seeing things from the outside but from my wife.
But it wasn't all her fault, I got really good at bottling that up, really good. Sometimes I had spew it out in anger instead of talking and communication. Then I would go back to it.
Yes she has a good, very good job as a pharmacist. I have a good job also, I'm VP at a local Bank. I still always let her career take priority, it was the bigger earner, it was more stressful, felt like it was a more important job, and I was always super proud of her earning that degree and having that job.
The thing my wife always has done is be OCD, so cleaning the house, everything put in its place was a huge deal, to me our house was cleaner that most peoples, and she would say it was filthy, and she would stress and don't get me wrong, four kids can turn a house upside down quickly if they get a chance, so she would do her thing cleaning and what not, and I would do the other thing. Except during my affair, she thinks I did nothing during that time, in reality we were probably more 50/50.
Yes mine was physical and emotional. Started off emotional, then crossed the line. Before it ever crossed the emotional to physical I tried to get out, the OW wouldn't let it be, she pursued me non stop, not that it was an excuse. I remember thinking before it ever went physical, I told her I wasn't going to talk to her anymore, that I wasn't jeopardizing everything. On the way home that day I remember calling my wife and yelling at her that she better figure out how to make me happy, I felt like I was giving up happiness with this OW, I felt like she got me, she appreciated me, told me how great a dad and husband I was. Of course she didn't leave me alone, and of course all I could see was negative, and I couldn't see that my unhappiness was because I was talking to my wife, I wasn't facing my issues, our issues, I was just running from them.
and when I was the Wayward Husband she did everything you are not supposed to do, that I then stated doing to her that just pushed me farther and farther away. Ill post more later on my affair and whatnot or any other questions.
Is your secretary (the OW) still working with you?
She is in the same building but no longer my secretary. After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that. I was open, fully transparent during the following months, I called and text her all day, I stayed in contact over lunch periods, I turned on my location on Snapchat so she could see where I was, I called when I left work. I guess I just tried to be as open, transparent, accountable as I could be. She didn't ask me to do as much as I did, but I did to because I felt like I owed her all of that, that she had to want it, that it had to make her feel better.
Is your W employed? In spite of her parent's warning, you chose to place your W on a pedestal while taking on 75% of the chores. I might understand the outside work, farm animals, etc., but I'm curious as to why you were persistent in leaving her with little to do. Is your love language acts of service?
I bought the book the five love languages, but she left me before I got it, then have switched to the divorce busting books. I just took a quiz and yes, acts of service comes up as my love language. Which after the affair we spent more time together/with each other in 6 months then we had in 10 years. She helped me with projects outside, would help running errands or what not, would go with me to do little things. So maybe that is part of why I started getting such a deeper love for her, she was doing things I had always wanted, helping out tons more, and I just felt happy and content. I truthfully don't remember ever feeling that way, I'm sure I did years ago, but it had definitely been a long, long time. I had the wife I wanted, she was more out going and personable with my friends, more involved with my parents, seemed happier in life, and now I lost her and someone else is getting that. Kills me everyday.... I mean last weekend she didn't have the kids and spent the entire weekend riding in a tractor with the OM(He's a farmer), she would have never spent an entire weekend doing something like that with me, ever.
I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids.........since you always took care of everything. As time progresses, you will probably see a lot more anger that you don't understand. Just look in the mirror and remember you created this
princess. I think she'll want you over there to help every evening that she is "stuck" with caring for the kids and being responsible for all that work she's never had to do. I mean, she may not know what bills to pay or when, etc. IMHO, it is a disservice to his W when a H leaves nothing for her to do. Hopefully, she has the type of personality where she'll dive in and be determined to learn how to handle running the house..........but, we'll see. Once you reconcile, be smart and don't pick up 75% of the work again.
That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet. My girls say she doesn't do anything with them just on her phone the whole night, then put them to bed and here her talking on the phone. Yes, I did create a monster, thought that was just being a good husband/provider, didn't see it for what it was, didn't see it was leading to me having resentment. I mean after we separated she had to call and ask when the house payment was due, and how much it was, had to give her logins for online banking, everything. I mean she's capable, but in 10 years of marriage hasn't touched it.
You thought you were seeing your W take on a new happiness, but in reality, she was competing with the secretary....or an OW#2 in the future, if she (your W) wasn't enough for you. She wanted to present herself and your MR as so wonderful that you would never consider another woman/affair. But her pain and low self esteem was there.......she just wouldn't show it to you, except in those times she desperately needed reassurance. This is just MHO, of course. Perhaps the reason these times of reassurances became less, was b/c her pain was shifting to anger.
Yes now I see the pain and low self esteem was there. I didn't see it before, I mean after the affair I would tell her how pretty she was all the time. it made her happy, but she would also question if I was being sincere. I was, I always have been attracted to my wife, but after the affair and me thinking I now had this great marriage and me and her seemed to have a great marriage, it just made me fall more in love with her and really I am probably somewhat infatuated with her right now and have been since the affair ended. I seriously think she is just the most attractive woman, I know part of that is the emotional bond I thought was formed after the affair, but I am just totally consumed with her. And I felt it was the same way with her until Bam, one day she wasn't.
She never showed much anger, of course she did in the beginning after finding out bout my affair, but it last a week. Then it seemed like we moved onto talking, and trying to heal. Once she started talking to the OM more in June she started making more and more snide comments, but not tons. Once she decided we were separating, and every since then lots of anger has came out. especially right when I moved out. I don't know if she is just finally releasing it, or if the OM is just telling her how horrible I am, how great she is, and how he can't understand how anyone could ever do this to her, and it is just fanning the flame. My priest and therapist says it is good that she is getting the anger out, I wished she would have long ago, I still feel like she is justified to lash out in anger because of what I did, I just wish she would have shared more of her anger and pain with me before the OM entered and I could have seen we needed help and a different approach to getting our marriage back on track.
She said multiple time in the last month that she didn't think the pain would ever stop and she wasn't going to live like that. I asked her one time if there was a button she could push and the pain was gone, not the memory, just the pain would she stay in the marriage and she said yes, without a doubt. I tried to tell her it would, what she felt was normal according to everything I read, and that it would go away and we could get help go to MC, whatever we needed to do, but by that time the OM was the easy choice, she told me it would be a pain free relationship and that was attractive.
I may change my mind once we have more information, but at the moment, I feel your W is having a revenge affair. I think she was so affected by your betrayal that she wanted you to experience the pain she has suffered. When ole smooth talker (OM) appeared, he fit the job description.........that's all.
At first I did too, it seemed to match that definition. But she seems to hit every single point of someone in limerance. and about 3 weeks before her telling me to leave we went to lunch one day. She had been acting off that week, I asked her if she was contacting the OM, she said no but she wanted to, then asked me how long before I stopped having feelings for the OW. I asked her if she had feelings for him and she said yes, that i was the only other person she had ever felt this way about. I tried to say it was a crush, that she had to stop talking to him for that to go away, and that she didn't even know him except through some text messages. Then right after I moved out and was at the house 3 days later a message came across her phone she surprisingly left laying on the counter, that said, "Im going to love you forever and make you so happy'. Made me sick, seriously seen him twice in person and he's telling her that he going to love her forever. They don't even know each other! But she totally believes that, even voiced her concern that her parents would never accept him because of how they got together and how well they have always liked me. It was almost like her asking me to smooth things over with her dad. This was like a week after i moved out.
At this point she has immersed herself into his circle of friends, they are not parading around in public, but might as well be, her car is parked in front of his house and it's on a busy road, everyone know. She doesn't seem to care that she is still married.
Enough rambling about past time JC. Now get into your man pants, stand up and start walking towards amoafwl. The only way you may have W back is letting her go. Not being there to get some crumbs. She´s the WW now so she must face how life is going to be from now on. I was there some time ago and it made me wake up from my soul mate dream bubble.
No expectations. DB! GAL!
You can´t sit waiting for her.
Stay strong there JC. It´s gonna take time and patience.
There´s a long journey ahead.
You are completely right, detaching will be difficult, I'm supposed to start moving into a house this weekend, been living in my aunts basement. So hopefully that will give my girls a little more structure and we can develop a better routine in a place of our own.
Heard through a mutual friend yesterday that to prepare for getting served papers, that she went to a lawyer yesterday to get the process started. I figured it was coming because lately that is all she has referenced, when we are divorced this or that.
After telling her that we are not going to befriends and that we can talk about children she has pretty much stopped contact. Hopefully not getting communication from her will help with the detachment.
I still can't see how this things is going to last. I know I cant have expectations, just got to accept that patience and time, whether divorced, are just things I have to deal with if I truly want to put our marriage back together. Like everything said, nothing I did or had been doing has improved or changed anything, so why not change everything. Detach, GAL, keep going to therapy.
I lost 40 pounds in 2 weeks after she told me she wanted separation. So I am back to a super healthy weight and joined a gym last week and started working out again. See where the journey leads. Letting go and trying to not worry about her, my kids future because of this, where things will be in a year, in two, those are the difficult things for me. I guess I should expect that though, I mean I have been out 45 days, her Affair is still a bright new shiny car that seems perfect at this point.
Thanks for listening everyone. Sandi I hope you can give some more insight into my WAW.
Would you fill in some time lines for us at the bottom of the page? List the ages of you & W; when your A started and ended; when W found out; when W asked you to leave; when she started her A, etc.
I want to make sure I understand your sitch, so please bear with me as I go back over some things you've posted.
So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.
What happened that caused you to change your mind about OW's flirtatious texting? I mean, things progressed to a PA, so you must have changed your mind about it.
Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence.
Do you see limerence something beyond your own volition?
Now this next quote is where I start to get confused:
Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair.
Which came first..........you coming out of the fog; seeing how much your W loved you; or seeing OW's faults?
Did you start spending more time with your W
after you were able to see how much she loved you? However, you continued the A, until you got caught when OW was blowing your phone?
I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.
First of all, forget all that stuff about finding your "soulmate". It has been used for many M breakups. People have this idea that a soulmate aligns perfectly with themselves and there is never any issues to work on b/c they are so perfectly matched. Secondly, limerence is not an excuse for engaging in an affair. The more you tell yourself that you "fell" into a state of limerence and that you could have never, consciously, do such a thing to your W.........
unless this OW was truly your preordained soulmate, the more you deceive yourself. You are trying to find justification for your conduct, and there is none. Limerece or finding one's soulmate doesn't remove your volition. It is extremely important to take full ownership of your actions. Don't place blame on the OW, limerence, soulmate, depression, etc.
So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids.
Good, you did the right thing. I totally get having a hard time afterwards. Who were you talking to for months.......your W or the OW? Affairs have a very addictive nature. I'm really surprised that you got over it in only 3-4 months............considering OW works in the same building. Do you see her at a distance?
After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that.
This makes no sense to me. Are you saying that after you learned about your W's affair, then you asked her if you should switch jobs? It was after you learned about
her affair that you started a transparency plan?
I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids
That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet.
Let me say it this way. I think her anger was less to do about you not staying to talk......and more to do about her having to take care of four kids on her own, without your help.
Would you fill in some time lines for us at the bottom of the page? List the ages of you & W; when your A started and ended; when W found out; when W asked you to leave; when she started her A, etc.
We are both 34. Together 16 years, married 11.
My Physical Affair started in October of 2017. I don't really know when I would say the emotional affair started but I would guess about June of 2017, before that summer it was just talking to her in the bank about business stuff, some personal stuff, like kids, vacations, wife, family, nothing negative.
Affair ended in October 2018, it was already dying but not dead until my wife found out. Yes I was still emotional connected though, I don't know why though because I wanted my marriage and wife, but still had strong attractions to the OW.
Her affair started in May 2019. The EA started shortly after she first met him in May and a few days later he started snap chatting. They had never talked before and he opened up with, "hey heard about his affair, are you guys doing okay. I couldn't believe he would do that to you, I know how much pain that causes".
She told me on July 26th that when we got home from vacation that we needed to separate, that she needed some space. Said it was just separation, not evening thinking about divorce and had nothing to do with OM. Stayed at my parents July 31st, She went to OM's house on August 1st. Actually when I was there on August 1st getting kids that evening the OM started to pull in driveway until he seen me, clearly he knew I was out.
I want to make sure I understand your sitch, so please bear with me as I go back over some things you've posted.
So we started to text more and she tried to flirt with me a few times, but I actually shut that down, told her it made me uncomfortable because I was married. I should have said I wasn’t going to talk to her anymore at that point, but I had never dated anyone but my wife and getting attention from a woman 9 years younger than me made me feel pretty good, I guess.
What happened that caused you to change your mind about OW's flirtatious texting? I mean, things progressed to a PA, so you must have changed your mind about it.
We text back and forth quite a bit, but nothing really sexy or overly flirty, she backed way off on flirty text after I said something the one time. Talked about how much she enjoyed having a friend she could talk about things with, and appreciated my feedback. Then one night my wife and I got into a big argument because she threw a fit about me going to a football game with a friend, even though she had went out and had drinks with a girlfriend the previous Friday night. I didn't go then stewed and left the house because I was mad and tired of arguing over it. sent a snapchat to the OW about how bad my wife was pissing me off and had to get out of the house, drink a few beers and calm down. She asked if I wanted to talk about it, said yes I did, she said she would come cruise around and listen to me. She did, I complained, she validated everything I said, then we drove around talked and had fun. When I got home, my wife apologized, and wanted to talk, and I was thinking about how unhappy she made me and how I hadn't had so much fun since I could remember. From there I started thinking differently about the OW. She instantly started telling me how she had never had so much fun, and how she could be herself around me, how she never felt so attracted to anyone, ect. Then a few days later she told me I know nothing will ever happen between us, I had made that clear, but since that night we rode around she couldn't stop thinking about kissing me. I had told her the only person I had ever kissed was my wife, then she went on and on about how that have ever happened, wasn't I curious, and so on. She then asked if she could kiss me, just once. I told her no that couldn't happen, she played the I'm sorry I never should have said that, you probably think I'm horrible, I should stop talking to you, I'm going to stop talking to you. I told her it was okay, I didn't think bad of her, that I was curious about it to, but I just couldn't. She then started justifying that it was just a kiss, no big deal, and I stupidly after a week of that said I wanted to kiss her. After that happened then she told me how she had never felt that way after a kiss, that she shouldn't have kissed me, because now she wanted more, and she knew that would never happen, pretty much the same story over and over. I got that first taste of that high, was distancing myself from my wife, and then it turned into a full blown physical affair. I was just weak and dumb, absolutely no justification in my actions.
Now looking back I completely believe I fell into limerence.
Do you see limerence something beyond your own volition?
Absolutely not, I was not in limerence when everything started. I didn't guard my heart or listen to my conscience when things changed to being inappropriate. The flirting and stuff was fun, made me feel good about myself. I mean here I was a 32 year old dad of four kids, slightly overweight, fairly low self confidence about my own looks because I never had much attention from girls and married my first girlfriend(which I was happy to do so at the time), and here is a 23 year old girl paying me a bunch of attention. It made me feel pretty good about myself, so I let it continue, then I let it get out of hand, and that is no ones fault but mine, I'm not throwing the blame on some psychological term, the blame falls squarely on my shoulders. I didn't think it would get that far when it was in the beginning, I never imagined that one it would transpire the way it did and two that she had any real interest, I just thought she liked the attention and compliments. I mean she was going out to bars and what not, I didn't have jealously about that, she would be out and stuff and wouldn't text me, it didn't bother me, I wasn't invested like that, it was just nice having the attention, I figured she would soon enough find something more entertaining and she would stop texting me. I knew right from wrong, I knew how guilty I felt, it was just pure selfishness on my part.
Once the full blown PA started and we already had that emotional connection, then I do feel like I fell into limerence, and I could checkmark every box of the signs you are in limerence. But I got there on my own, there was plenty of things I did wrong before getting there, and I knew them before I got deep enough to get to that state.
Now this next quote is where I start to get confused:
Then after about a year I started coming out of the fog, I started seeing how much my wife loved me, how manipulating, selfish, and controlling this other woman was, and me and my wife started spending more time together, even going out with friends and having date nights. Mind you my wife knows I am not happy in the marriage but has no idea I am having an affair.
Which came first..........you coming out of the fog; seeing how much your W loved you; or seeing OW's faults?
Did you start spending more time with your W after you were able to see how much she loved you? However, you continued the A, until you got caught when OW was blowing your phone?
I was starting to see the OW faults, we had had several "breakups", she would draw a line in the sand per se, like if you don't call a lawyer and file for divorce next week then I'm done. I wouldn't she'd blow up, that we were done, I felt like I had escaped, then a day later or even the same day, shed call or text. She would say Im pushing you too hard and you need to work through this at your own pace and I am just being selfish. This happened multiple times, as besides continuing the affair I took no steps towards leaving my wife. I never called a lawyer, I never looked for a house, I would tell my wife that I thought we should separate, but then never carried forward with it. At one point in September or so, right before my wife found out, the OW text me one day and said she loved me, but she was letting me go. She said it was obvious I wasn't leaving my wife, and she felt like there was more distance between us, sex had slowed down, I was making excuses not to see her. She felt like I had said enough times I wanted out and that she had to convince me to stay, that clearly I wanted out, because I had changed very little of my life. I think I sent ok, or I didn't even respond. Regardless later that day or maybe the next she sent that she wanted to still be friends. She talked about her little boy some, I talked about something my girls had done, but the tone definitely changed between us. Because I did have feeling for her I thought this was good, like I wasn't shutting her out, I was keeping her somewhat content, she had threatened telling my wife one time we broke up, So I thought this was good. She knew we were done but she didn't want to burn me at the stake and expose everything. No surprise to you guys, that doesn't happen, she started making comments like, I know we are not going to end up together but can we have sex one more time. I had already started spending more time with my wife again, we were starting to have fun, I was starting to remember all the things I loved about her. So things were improving with her and I was starting to see the faults with the OW and the reality of that path if I would have left my wife. But yes at that point, even though I was seeing faults and coming out of the Fog I was still pretty attached to her.
I didn’t want to be this person anymore. But she always found a way back in and I truthfully believe it had to do with me being in limerence and telling myself that I would never would have had an affair unless this woman was my “soulmate”.
First of all, forget all that stuff about finding your "soulmate". It has been used for many M breakups. People have this idea that a soulmate aligns perfectly with themselves and there is never any issues to work on b/c they are so perfectly matched. Secondly, limerence is not an excuse for engaging in an affair. The more you tell yourself that you "fell" into a state of limerence and that you could have never, consciously, do such a thing to your W.........unless this OW was truly your preordained soulmate, the more you deceive yourself. You are trying to find justification for your conduct, and there is none. Limerece or finding one's soulmate doesn't remove your volition. It is extremely important to take full ownership of your actions. Don't place blame on the OW, limerence, soulmate, depression, etc.
I did at one time, that was only when I was in the affair and trying to justify my actions to myself. I do not believe in soulmates, I never have, except during my affair as a self justification for my actions, I know its not a justification, just another crappy excuse to make myself feel better. It used to even hurt my wife's feelings when she said something about us being soulmates and I would tell her I didn't believe that, that there nothing perfect out there and we had to work on our relationship all the time, and I didn't think there was a relationship out there that wasn't lots of work. She told me that she thought this OM could be her soulmates but I wouldn't understand that because I didn't believe in them. I agree that there is zero excuses, I guess im not trying to use it as an excuse or justification, but more of somehow explain to myself how I could ever do this, I just never thought I would do this, I never wanted to believe I could be that person, I had always judged anyone I had heard about so harshly for doing it. But yes it was just my own stupidly, selfishness and weakness and I broke my own morals and did this terrible thing to my wife and children. There is no excuse, zero, I agree with that. I knew it was wrong, I tried getting out and was too weak at the time to follow through.
So, I text the other woman in front of my wife told her done, over, I love my wife, ect. I then blocked her, and deleted every form of communication. Then came months of talking, I admit I had a hard time letting go, and I was depressed. I had never broken up with someone, and at that point I thought I loved her, but I also knew I loved my wife and kids.
Good, you did the right thing. I totally get having a hard time afterwards. Who were you talking to for months.......your W or the OW? Affairs have a very addictive nature. I'm really surprised that you got over it in only 3-4 months............considering OW works in the same building. Do you see her at a distance?
Talking to my wife for months, I took the blame for everything when it came out. She would say things like if I was a better wife you wouldn't have cheated, I failed you, I had to be so bad to you or you never would have done this; every time she would do this I would tell her that I took full blame, that it had nothing to do with her, that it was my fault. She asked lots of question, about everything, I told her everything she asked. I didn't want it to look like I was hiding something or not fully disclosing everything.
I wouldn't say I was over her, but I was sure that I wanted my marriage and my wife. The OW also got pretty hateful at times at work and that made it easier. I think my wife picked up on that it still bothered me and I was depressed over her, I kept reassuring her that I wanted her, my family, and our marriage. I thought I was hiding that I was having issues but my wife knew something was up. The good thing was me and my wife were spending tons of fun times together. We where out enjoying life, we were planning a trip for March, the OW started dating a guy, it bothered me, she rubbed it in my face a couple of times, telling me how much better a man he was than me, it bothered me, and I didn't know why? Because I really was happy, my wife told me she could see me coming back into the person I was, doing projects around the house and farm, getting more happiness back, enjoying the kids more, ect. Which was the way I felt, but yes there was still something there for the OW and I didn't want it to be. Yes I still had daily interactions with her, and for a long time the OW went between telling me I was a POS to telling me she still wanted me and would wait forever to have me, no I'm not making that up....
After the affair ended and everything came out about that affair with my wife, I asked her about switching jobs. She said I didn't need to do that.
This makes no sense to me. Are you saying that after you learned about your W's affair, then you asked her if you should switch jobs? It was after you learned about her affair that you started a transparency plan?
No, I wasn't being clear there. I started the transparency plan right after my affair came out. I did everything she asked, she knew I use to go to the OW house over lunch so I talked everyday during lunch, turned on tracker so she could see where I was at, no passwords on phone, everything. I asked about my job when my affair came out. My wife said no, that she believed in my sorrow, and that we could get through it. I'm a banker and like I said we are in a rural area, I have a non-compete, so it would be though for me to leave and find employment in the same field or I would have to drive an hour to work. I did asked to be transferred to another location but there was nothing available
I think her anger toward you not staying to talk, had more to do with being left alone to deal with all the kids
That's one thing, she has yet to be alone, completely alone since we separated. She either has the kids, or she is with him. So she hasn't really dealt with being alone yet.
Let me say it this way. I think her anger was less to do about you not staying to talk......and more to do about her having to take care of four kids on her own, without your help.
I will also say that during the year of my affair I ran her down constantly. I was a horrible person to her. In the times after the affair I wasn't, she said she understood that I ran her down to make myself feel better or whatever. That hurt her deeply, very, very deeply.
She had never opened up to her parents about anything, well this weekend she did. Her mom called me today and said that she talked about what happened during the affair, and how the OM makes her feel, and that she says I never loved her, that you can't be that horrible to someone and love them, you just can't.
She is definitely only thinking and seeing the absolute worst part of our relationship, the year during the affair is defining our entire marriage. Does DBing help with letting her heal and start remembering the good things too? Is time really my best friend to letting the pain subside and letting her remember some of the good things also?
Her mom called me today and said that she talked about what happened during the affair, and how the OM makes her feel, and that she says I never loved her, that you can't be that horrible to someone and love them, you just can't.
Hi JC08,
So, her mom reached out to you. How did you respond--with shame, with guilt, with validation, with defensiveness? I agree you didn't love her during the affair, but it sounds like you did before and after? It probably [censored] for you that so many years together are re-defined by a few bad choices.
Is time really my best friend to letting the pain subside and letting her remember some of the good things also?
I left my ex-wife 10 years ago. I have questioned if I tried enough before giving up, but I've never changed my perspective on the badness vs. goodness of the marriage, nor reminisced about the good moments. As I told Kas, though, if she'd changed radically and permanently while I was single I might've re-visited because sharing the same kids would lead to a great deal of convenience if other factors were there.
You described OM as a "serial womanizer". My Q to you was, who ends the relationships and how quickly does he typically move on? Past behavior is a good predictor of future opportunities.
So, her mom reached out to you. How did you respond--with shame, with guilt, with validation, with defensiveness? I agree you didn't love her during the affair, but it sounds like you did before and after? It probably [censored] for you that so many years together are re-defined by a few bad choices.
I have kept good communication with her parents, he gave always had a great relationship, even through all of this I was actually the one that told them about my infidelity. One to try and take blame for my actions and show regret. Two, because I felt like my wife needed someone to talk to besides me, she was still embarrassed about it and wouldn't talk to her mom, instead the OM contacted her about it and it's been downhill since. Of course through this whole time I have been shameful and took blame for my actions and the situation I created.
Yes I always loved her, before the affair happened I questioned her love and mine, but that was unhappiness that manifested into regret towards her. After the affair I fell deeply back into love with my wife, I seen what we had, what I had in her, that she was worth the fight and we both had a lot to do with our marriage eroding, I blamed her for my unhappiness before the affair. So yes, hindsight is terrible, I should have found help, I should have seeked MC before the affair, I should have done so many things differently, I created this situation, and it absolutely [censored], at this point I'm going to try and follow advice here and am going to put in the time and effort, and in due time see if things change with her and the OM.
Side note, this weekend age said that she could see marriage with him, and he seen the same, and I better get use to him being around because he's there to stay. Still crazy that she met him 100 days ago, and 60 days ago said she was overwhelmed, but loved me and would never leave.
You described OM as a "serial womanizer". My Q to you was, who ends the relationships and how quickly does he typically move on? Past behavior is a good predictor of future opportunities.
I have heard he usually does, but that last one she caught him talking to 3 other women and she left. 6-9 months is pretty typical is my understanding. The night we all went out together and everything started he was bragging about all the women who text him out of the blue or who come over for a booty call because that is the reputation he has. Hope he hasn't changed, it will give me time to improve and hopefully some perspectives about me and us to change.
Yesterday, out of the blue she started trying to convince me to go back to the OW. Said clearly I loved her, that she wants me happy, and now she understands that you can't help falling in love with someone. Said the OW is a pretty girl, that the OW has done well for herself, and she wouldn't make things difficult and to reconcile and date the OW. Just told me to make sure she is good to our girls.
Why? This is crazy, goes from hating her (understandably) to now wants me to date and make things work.
Is this just guilt and shame?
Of course I told her that I never loved the OW, it wasn't reality, but I understand why see would think I did. And that I have no desire to every date the OW.
I had several good days, had my girls all weekend, moved into a new house all that type of stuff. When I dropped my girls off, I was nice and tried to get out of there quickly. She asked me how I was doing, I said actually really good, she then asked if I was seeing the OW and if it was making me happy. Told her I wasn't, because I'm not, haven't even talked to her. I don't know where some of this stuff comes from.
Tonight [censored], no kids, nothing to keep my mind from thinking all the horrible thoughts that drive me insane. I know it was the OMs birthday today, I know she was gone all weekend because when I dropped the kids off she was unloading a suitcase. So I know they went somewhere. 3 days without hearing a word from her, 3 days of not reaching out one time about the kids, nothing.
Didn't bother me all weekend, didn't bother me last night, but tonight it just [censored] and I can't find motivation to do anything.
Guess I'm just venting. Not even close to giving up, not even a thought, but would like the overwhelming feelings and thoughts to calm down a little. I guess time will be the cure for that too.
Hey JC - I hear your pain buddy. It gets lonely at home. Turn on the TV, play some music, just to get some sound going. Force yourself to get out. Go to a pub, order dinner, have a few drinks, then walk home. Spend a lot of time getting dressed up nice before you go and that will kill time too.
Set up a little corner with kids photos, artwork, crafts etc.
Hey, you could even buy an Xbox or PS4 and start playing online shooter games like I did!! I even got a heaset! I look like an idiot but who cares! Ive made some new friends too.
Good luck mate!
Told her I wasn't, because I'm not, haven't even talked to her. I don't know where some of this stuff comes from.
It sounds like an outcome that would make this easier.. for your ex-wife.
Hey, you could even buy an Xbox or PS4 and start playing online shooter games like I did!! I even got a heaset! I look like an idiot but who cares! Ive made some new friends too.
Why not? While online games may not be the most mate-attractive activities, it can be fun, and it's okay to just have fun! Streaming a season on Netflix is also okay. Your GAL repertoire will hopefully also include some locally social and/or self-improvement activities, but it doesn't have to on day one.
She can't decide what she wants. Like I said last week she started to encourage me to date the OW who IO haven't spoke to in months and months.
Then last night I text her about some concert tickets we had bought. I have a group of friends going to a concert and in May we were invited, she was so excited about going and we bought tickets off of Stub Hub, of course now we are separated and clearly wont be going together. I asked her to send login info for Stub Hub as she said I could have the tickets. She then asked me if I was taking this OW. I just responded, really? Then asked for login information again. She then begged me I could take anyone, just don't take this OW.
She is dating someone, she spends every free minute with him, weekend getaways, and yet she wants a say in my private life?
I just didn't respond. My plan was to actually sell the other ticket because I have no desire to go with anyone else, and selling the ticket would pretty much cover the other cost of weekend.
What should have my response been? She's the one wanting a divorce, not me. Is this just cake eating? I'm not the one involved with someone else, its almost been a year from her finding out about the OW, she is the one that is wayward now.
Thanks
Got served papers yesterday. The night before she called me and told me she's close to losing her job, she was needing support from me, I have always supported her in her career. I told her that I didn't even know what she has going on at work, that she talks to someone else about that. She said she doesn't talk about her job stuff and definitely not her issues at work with him. Does she not talk about stuff like that because she's afraid that would make her look different than this perfect little picture she painted him?
So I talked a little, but not much. Said she really appreciated it.
Then I got served papers the next day!! That was yesterday.
Now today she text and ask how I am doing? I don't even know how to respond?! I'm dying, but I know that I can't say anything about that.
Now today she text and ask how I am doing?
W:"How are you doing?"
wait at least and hour then H:"Doing great!"
O man, this is my worst fear. A nice little chat and the next day, served. So sorry. R2C gave the perfect response (as always). I know how surreal it is...asking how you're doing. Now is the time where you are allowed to lie to your W. Hang in there.
When things progress so quickly is there a better chance it ends as quickly? First contact to her kicking me out was 60 days and she hadn't even seen him in person. 60 days after being out of the house, she lives with him when she don't have the kids, she's met his kids, went to his ex-wife wedding with him, and the list goes on and on. It's so crazy how fast it went from nothing to indicating he is her "soulmate" and all this happened for them to find each other.
I have seen a few articles that talked about when it progresses so quickly it is much more likely to end quickly.
Any thoughts and opinions about that?
Sandi you had asked me to feel in some blanks a while back, if you happen to see this I would love to hear some more insight from you on my situation.
Thanks again everyone for your words and insights.
I have seen a few articles that talked about when it progresses so quickly it is much more likely to end quickly.
Any thoughts and opinions about that?
In general it does seem like quickly progressing affairs do fizzle out sooner rather than later. That said, there are always exceptions to any rule. I can think of two examples from here, both a few years ago, where a WAW latched onto an affair partner pretty quickly, in one case the OM moved in with her and in the other case she moved in with him. Both relationships were still going strong over a year later and in both cases the LBS's quit posting so we don't know if they continued beyond that.
Also if the affair does fizzle out that doesn't necessarily mean she'll come running back to you. Often they will go in search of OM2, 3, 4, etc.
I'm not trying to kill your hopes, just point out that it's so hard to predict how any one situation will end up. I was 100% convinced my marriage would be saved and it wasn't. Others here I was completely convinced would NOT be saved, and they were. There's just no reliable benchmark or pattern. All you can do is focus on you!
I have seen a few articles that talked about when it progresses so quickly it is much more likely to end quickly.
Any thoughts and opinions about that?
In general it does seem like quickly progressing affairs do fizzle out sooner rather than later. That said, there are always exceptions to any rule. I can think of two examples from here, both a few years ago, where a WAW latched onto an affair partner pretty quickly, in one case the OM moved in with her and in the other case she moved in with him. Both relationships were still going strong over a year later and in both cases the LBS's quit posting so we don't know if they continued beyond that.
Also if the affair does fizzle out that doesn't necessarily mean she'll come running back to you. Often they will go in search of OM2, 3, 4, etc.
I'm not trying to kill your hopes, just point out that it's so hard to predict how any one situation will end up. I was 100% convinced my marriage would be saved and it wasn't. Others here I was completely convinced would NOT be saved, and they were. There's just no reliable benchmark or pattern. All you can do is focus on you!
This. I saw this with my W and her EA. Other man moved on fairly quickly. She was immediately on the hunt for OM #2. Sometimes it isn't about that particular person, but validation from someone else in general. Especially with WWs.
When things progress so quickly is there a better chance it ends as quickly? First contact to her kicking me out was 60 days and she hadn't even seen him in person. 60 days after being out of the house, she lives with him when she don't have the kids, she's met his kids, went to his ex-wife wedding with him, and the list goes on and on. It's so crazy how fast it went from nothing to indicating he is her "soulmate" and all this happened for them to find each other.
I have seen a few articles that talked about when it progresses so quickly it is much more likely to end quickly.
Any thoughts and opinions about that?
Sandi you had asked me to feel in some blanks a while back, if you happen to see this I would love to hear some more insight from you on my situation.
Thanks again everyone for your words and insights.
it's been less than a year since your wife found out about your affair. do you have any idea on how long that takes to get over.
My uneducated guess is that she is moving quickly with the new guy because 1) you hurt her in a way you probably didn't realize it, 2) it sounds like you never really process the your affair as a couple and 3) it helps her move on from the pain she was in.
Some people get married after a few dates, some people never get married after years. I don't think there is any hard and fast rules. Heck my dad is still married to his affair partner after 30+ years.
At first, no I really didn't have any idea, either one of us did. After she started talking to the OM is when she really opened up to me and the pain. Before that it seemed like we had slowly progressed over the last year and things got better and better.
Towards he time she pushed the seperation is when she said, "it's almost been a year, I shouldn't hurt this much still, there is no hope". Neither one of us knew how long recovery would be or what we needed to do to get there. I thought we were there, she thought she should be there, and we were both wrong. Plus the OM told her repeatedly that she would never get over it until she got rid of me, and that they could make each other happy. That is what she believed and that is what she did.
So time will tell I guess. I'm trying to focus on me and my girls, but knowing that she's moved on and showing nothing but happiness makes it hard not to lose hope.
At first, no I really didn't have any idea, either one of us did. After she started talking to the OM is when she really opened up to me and the pain. Before that it seemed like we had slowly progressed over the last year and things got better and better.
Towards he time she pushed the seperation is when she said, "it's almost been a year, I shouldn't hurt this much still, there is no hope". Neither one of us knew how long recovery would be or what we needed to do to get there. I thought we were there, she thought she should be there, and we were both wrong. Plus the OM told her repeatedly that she would never get over it until she got rid of me, and that they could make each other happy. That is what she believed and that is what she did.
So time will tell I guess. I'm trying to focus on me and my girls, but knowing that she's moved on and showing nothing but happiness makes it hard not to lose hope.
So an update, she's still with OM. I know, none of you will be surprised by this, I know it is still way to early.
She told me the other day when I dropped kids off that she didn't mean to be rubbing this in my face, but things like that were just going happen and she's sorry. There was pictures of them on Facebook and some other small social media stuff. Then I was out walking with my kids and met them in a Polaris ranger on the road by my house. We live in a rural area, my kids all seen her with him, they really had no reason to be there, she just said sorry, didn't think we would see anyone.
I know it goes against DB rules but when she was telling me this I just looked at her, touched her face, and told her that I didn't like seeing it but it didn't change the way I felt about her. She then said something along the lines that she is just so confused.
I'm trying to do a better job at detaching, just don't know how. I know what she is doing and where is she is at when she doesn't have the kids and it kills me, but I don't care, I can only still think about her and putting things back together. I know there was more under the surface then she told me but I can't but to think we would still be improving our relationship if the OM would have never entered the picture.
I know that I am only 4 months into her affair, that really isn't anything, but I know I have zero desire to give up standing for our marriage and for her. I'm sure I'm doing things wrong, but when she tells me she doesn't want me to put my life on hold for her, I tell her she's worth it. Probably dumb, I don't try to bring up R talks but when she says stuff like that I feel like I have to respond something. Feel like if I would act like I'm moving on it would make her feel less guilty and less conflicted about the situation and her decision.
She has changed so many of her values and morals, I hope these changes are permeant. I did the same, so I just want to believe it's part of the process.
Don't have much to report or say. Except I'm still here, I'm trying to work on myself, and I still have hope. I do think it will take some time but the same day she said she was confused she also told me she still had feelings for me, that she didn't want to get hurt and she is just really guarded. Kinda raised an eyebrow on the "really guarded", you started seeing the OM instantly and he has a pretty extensive history of being a womanizer. Anyway that's where I'm currently at.
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I know it goes against DB rules but when she was telling me this I just looked at her, touched her face, and told her that I didn't like seeing it but it didn't change the way I felt about her. She then said something along the lines that she is just so confused.
I'm trying to do a better job at detaching, just don't know how. I know what she is doing and where is she is at when she doesn't have the kids and it kills me, but I don't care, I can only still think about her and putting things back together. I know there was more under the surface then she told me but I can't but to think we would still be improving our relationship if the OM would have never entered the picture.
I know that I am only 4 months into her affair, that really isn't anything, but I know I have zero desire to give up standing for our marriage and for her. I'm sure I'm doing things wrong, but when she tells me she doesn't want me to put my life on hold for her, I tell her she's worth it. Probably dumb, I don't try to bring up R talks but when she says stuff like that I feel like I have to respond something. Feel like if I would act like I'm moving on it would make her feel less guilty and less conflicted about the situation and her decision.
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You have a unique situation because you cheated, so you seem much more tolerant of her behavior... you also know the state of mind / emotions to be on the flip side.
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She has changed so many of her values and morals, I hope these changes are permeant. I did the same, so I just want to believe it's part of the process.
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Her values and morals changed for the better or worse? And do you actually mean permanent, or temporary?
Yes her values and morals have changed for the worse. I meant to say I hope they are not permanent.
It just seemed like she progressed with her EA so much quickly than I did. And for almost a year all we talked about was how glad she was that we figured our lives out, not only for us, but for our children. Then those thoughts and ideas changed in almost no time at all.
I don't know if I'm too tolerant or not and I no there is no guarantee that she follows the same process I did. I know for a big chunk of my affair I was certain that I wanted a divorce, that there was nothing left, that I felt like I poured and gave every thing into the marriage before my affair started. I guess I'm just saying I "justified" that our marriage was dead. But as time went on, things became clearer and I started remembering more than just the bad.
So no guarantee, just hope she goes through the same process. She told me just a few nights ago that she still considered me a great husband and the only time frame I wasn't was during my affair, so I just hope in time my affair doesn't erase all the good.
Just found out today that she is going on a beach vacation with the OM in January. Im trying to detach, trying not to care, but I just can't figure out how to do that.
We will definitely still be married at that point, I have no idea who she is at this point.
This is a trip that the OM is provided by a seed company, lots of area farmers go on trips like this through their dealer. I know for a fact my wife will be the 4th different girl in the last 4 years. 4 years ago was the OM then wife, then a different woman the last two years, this year it will be my wife. Doesn't seem to be a concern of hers though.
Just venting, things like this seem to send me reeling, and pretty much know the next couple of days are going to be sleepless nights and I'm sure a new set of nightmares.
Well IMHO, I think you have hurt her in a way she might move forward find the healing method,something as being advertised as the deal of a lifetme. I've seen similar posts to the ones your XW is currently writing. This is my only my opinion, so take it for what you thik it is worth.
Yes, you have caused her very deep. I'm talking about the kind she doen't get over.
she may turn to other substances to get her though those painful days, but they don't work well for her
She felt she was give as much that could when something else happened.
She is not in love with this OM. Her main objective is hurt you as badly as you've hurt her. In the meantime, she going to play kissy-kiss with the OM. She is using him, and apparently it must be work. She uses him to smear in your face every chance she gets, and uses him for the glorification . If he dumps her, she go find OM 2. Unfortunately, there are women who want help with these other men, who can gave them a great show. Your W tries to thrown this in your fame. Every time an ad comes in her paper about job, she wants you know it. So, she'll drop pictures of herself to post social media. She'll find ways to praise OM, and bread crumbs for you, just to keep you attached.
This is could go on for years......or until you and your W get expert therapist who knows how to heel couple coming back from an A. I would suggest you call one of couches at MWD. I think you have hurt her very deeply, and at the moment she was the hurt...........she turns to OM, to get rid of the bad stuff and she saw him at free ticket. Therefore, since an ow seem so good for you...........Your W thinks, why shouldn't have her turn?
Even if you just called MWD office to get them to help you know how to handle this situation I agree with what your W said about feeling very confused. Although is sounds confused, I think she's still in love with you. But convincing her, is another matter.
I'm seeing a therapist weekly, we spend about half our time discussing me, how I got to the point of having an affair, working on my coping skills(or lack of them), and other things. The rest of the time she works on me about how to have good interactions with my wife. Which a lot of her advice goes against DB rules, so I am always torn on how to interact with her.
I did have a coach from MWD for a while, just seemed like she is in so deep with the OM it seemed pointless after my first set of sessions ran out. So maybe I will go back to hiring a coach. I pretty much know this is going to be a long, long road, yes possibly years. I'm just trying to figure out how to interact with her so that she sees that over time I do love her, undoubtedly. Just in that time I want to become better at all the weakness I have.
Thank you for your opinions and insights.
Oh my goodness! My previous post sounds as if I was drunk......and I don't even drink, (but I was very sleepy when I wrote it). I was trying to say that I think your W is deeply wounded, and until she can find peace & healing, I don't think your MR is going to reconcile. The two of you are too emotionally intertwined, and not in a healthy way. You have to back away, don't pressure her emotionally, and let her work through the pain. Frankly, I think the only type of therapy that will help is to find an expert who deals with healing after affairs.
She doesn't love this OM, but she wants the pain to go away and thinks this is the way to do it. It's so tragic that everything is in such a mess.
I sincerely appreciate your response.
Why can't I remember the issues and feelings I had when my affair started? For awhile I thought I was happy, then reality set in, but for reasons I don't understand yet, maybe never, I didn't get out of the affair, sure I tried, but trying isn't an excuse. I wanted out, I told the OW I wanted my life back, I wasn't leaving, and for some reason I couldn't stick to that.
If I could remember then I could focus on that. That this is what I really wanted, this was what I knew the direction I was going. Now I can't, can't come up with a single legitimate reason to leave her, yet I have given her so many in a year's time to leave and for that I really can't blame her.
Something I thought I could never do, something I never understood how people did, then I did it all. Unhealthy as it is for me, I just don't know how I am going to not be intertwined with her and her feelings and needs, I'm sure unhealthy, but just the way it always has been, except during the affair, and now that feeling that was always there is back and stronger than I remember.
The therapist I see talked about the process of healing and dealing with the trauma I caused. She said first would mainly be work with my W, talked about EMDR, and just talked about the healing process for my W and what I would need to do to help with that, then overtime we would start working on us as a couple again, work on communication, bonding, and so forth. That was what was discussed in the one and only session.
We got a schedule set up, the rest of the day my W seemed a happier and more herself, talked positive about therapy, that she was excited about how the therapist described everything, plus it would lead to a lot of time of just us, and us working on us. Her mom even told me that my W brought up what the therapist talked about, the process, and she seemed excited because she wanted closure and how to cope and move past, the triggers and all those types of things.
I really don't know what the OM was saying to her, but it seemed like things went in waves. Because we talked about therapy and she had a good outlook on it for the rest of the weekend, our first appointment was a Saturday morning. Then once she went to work Monday, I think they talked a lot more when she was at work, things went back downhill because she wouldn't stop talking to him.
So yes you are right, she was in pain, I didn't realize the depth until it was to late. If we would have found help earlier maybe we could have worked through some of that pain. I talk to my priest often also, he mirrors what you say to a lot of degree. He believes she is in a lot of pain, that she just swept it under the rug, that the OM is just an escape, that her pain and undealt with issues will come out in their relationship/affair and cause issues after the new wears off, but he does believe once she is ready to heal then that is we can try yo try putting our marriage back together, but he believes it will take a lot of time. My W actually talked to the priest right before telling me she wanted to separate, the priest said that they talked a lot about healing, and what needed to be done to get that, but said just they way she described how she felt, what she was thinking, and how she described everything, that he was extremely surprised how quickly things changed after that, because she just didn't come off as wanting to separate or leave.
My wife comes from a very religious family, my W has moved away hard from that, same as I did, but her parents and the priest hope and believe that as time goes on that she will start returning to her beliefs, and maybe there will be a chance of R, I know I can't have expectations, that this is just the beginning, and in that time I need to follow the advice here, and that if she looks back my way she will see changes.
Thanks for your response. I hope & pray that she will not remain with OM.....or other men in general, b/c of extensive damage or adding further complications to the sitch.
I've asked my boss to move me to a different location. He won't. I work for a family owned bank, live in a very rural area, and they have a non-compete agreement when you first take employment with them. I have been looking into different areas or even some additionally schooling if I could find a job that would get me away from my job.
The OM was my biggest customer, have 8 years of history with him, have bought dinners for him when I seen him or his dad at a restaurant, he was somewhat of a friend, stopped by my house and visited unexpectedly several times, text me and stopped in my office after my 3rd daughter had a stint in the NICU. Then went after my wife, comes in the bank more than he ever has, all my other customers (mainly farmers) all know he's with my wife, my interactions with a lot of my customers have changed because it the elephant in the room, a decent portion of them will be going on that trip here soon because its a company sponsored trip at an all inclusive for all the seed customers from the area.
I will never be able to detach, seeing him almost weekly, he walked in the bank at 9am, and all I can think is my wife left his bed within the last hour. It seriously just gives me a panic or anxiety attack every time. I can't, I just can't stay here anymore.
stopped by my house and visited unexpectedly several times, text me and stopped in my office after my 3rd daughter had a stint in the NICU. Then went after my wife
Likely he was after your W from the moment he met her. That would explain much of what you describe here.
"I will never be able to detach, seeing him almost weekly, he walked in the bank at 9am, and all I can think is my wife left his bed within the last hour."
This tells me that you do not understand what detachment is. In fact, it is always a good exercise to let a LBS explain what detachment is to them. So can you explain to us what you believe detachment means?
If you think it means some kind of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" thing then you clearly have it wrong.
Then went after my wife, comes in the bank more than he ever has, all my other customers (mainly farmers) all know he's with my wife, my interactions with a lot of my customers have changed because it the elephant in the room, a decent portion of them will be going on that trip here soon because its a company sponsored trip at an all inclusive for all the seed customers from the area.
Does shame play a role in this? I mean, I get that you cheated and another man took the opportunity to woo and win your lady. It's a kick to the gut! Grieving is very natural here--anger, loss, etc. I hope you're not adding the extra pain of shame to the mix when you see other farmers in the know. I'm working through a book on self compassion. There's an author, Kristin Neff, with a great website and books on the topic.
He was married during a lot of those interactions. You may be right though, when my wife was 16 years old she was a dishwasher at a local restaurant, he was like 23 and gave her a dollar bill with his number on it, told her to call him when she 18, and for another 18 years that was their only interaction. Only reason I even know that is because she told me, "He even remembered giving me a dollar bill with his number on it when I was 16, maybe all of this happened for a reason".
I definitely think he was after her before he ever went out with us that one night. He had heard about my affair from someone, within a week he had called a mutual friend to ask what she knew about it, and then spent the whole night talking about how broken hearted he was about his ex-wife and his last girlfriend. That all he ever wanted was to marry his best friend, blah, blah, blah.
I guess I feel like detaching would be able to come to the realization that she is going to do her thing, and whatever happens happens, that I cant change her actions or feelings and I that I need to accept the reality of the situation. That way I don't dwell on where she's at, what she's doing, wondering if she has any second thoughts or remorse, what the future is going to be, what happened to the wife I knew, and instead learn to focus on myself and my life without her. To get back to who I was, a focused, driven, goal orientated, hard working, passionate about whatever I was doing person. My mother in law told me the other day that I needed to find myself again, That I had always been so upbeat, that I always came off as someone who had his stuff together, and was quick to smile and laugh. She said she knew something was wrong during my affair, but it was defiantly returning before the OM got involved, and now I'm just a shell, that she never thought shed see me like this. That I needed to find a way back to that person. I feel like detaching is part of what leads me back to being that person.
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Does shame play a role in this? I mean, I get that you cheated and another man took the opportunity to woo and win your lady. It's a kick to the gut! Grieving is very natural here--anger, loss, etc. I hope you're not adding the extra pain of shame to the mix when you see other farmers in the know. I'm working through a book on self compassion. There's an author, Kristin Neff, with a great website and books on the topic.
Shame is huge part of what I feel. I felt shameful and guilty for a long time during my affair and then especially with my wife after everything came out. I was trying to be there for her, ask her what she need from me, but still dealing with bringing all this down on her and my family. But since she started actually seeing the OM the shame is overwhelming. I'm from a town of 500 people, I don't go that town to eat, get fuel, whatever. I go to another town farther away, I don't go see friends, don't socialize at sport events or whatever, I just stay to myself. I seriously get overwhelmed with inferior/failure feelings seeing people I've known my whole life or people just thinking about all the people who know my wife is with someone else because they are so public with it. Let alone when other people come into my office and act different because they had probably ran into my wife with the OM because a lot of my customers run the same circles. Same with all the people I work with, they all know, no one comes into my office to visit or chit chat anymore, and I only leave my office for work essential functions.
I guess I feel like detaching would be able to come to the realization that she is going to do her thing, and whatever happens happens, that I cant change her actions or feelings and I that I need to accept the reality of the situation. That way I don't dwell on where she's at, what she's doing, wondering if she has any second thoughts or remorse, what the future is going to be, what happened to the wife I knew, and instead learn to focus on myself and my life without her. To get back to who I was, a focused, driven, goal orientated, hard working, passionate about whatever I was doing person.
We had a guy here that was separated from his W and she had a restraining order against him. He had no contact with her at all. And he still struggled with what you describe here.
Detachment comes from within you, and happens in spite of external factors when you decide to prioritize yourself.
Go find yourself. If getting a new job or whatever is what that takes, then do it. Just don't delude yourself into thinking that there are quick fixes to the flood of emotions that you feel.
So this weekend was another disaster for me, shocker I know! Anyway. W had the girls this weekend, they are 10,7,6, and 3. Saturday she went to one of her families Thanksgiving's with the girls. Well later in the evening my W's dad calls and ask if I could come help him track a deer, so I did, got that done and he tells me to come over to the house and visit a while. I still talk to her parents daily, she told me when we separated not to cut her parents out, that I meant to much to them.
Anyway, get to their house and my oldest two daughters are there and say they are staying the night, that they came home from the Thanksgiving with grandma, I have been there like 5 minutes, W walks in with clothes for the girls, I make small talk, how are you, how was Thanksgiving, she answered with one word snaps so I leave, figure I'm intruding on her space or something.
Her dad calls me a few minutes later and says after I left my W asked where I went, why I left, if she made me mad, her dad just says oh he was about to leave when you got here so I don't think so. Said he really wanted to tell my W that she was being rude and hateful, what did she expect. Said she left right after, hardly said anything, and was in a rush.
Well found out she was in a huge rush because she took the little two and went to the steak house in my hometown(500 people), and went out to eat with OM and his kids. I mean several people text me and said that they thought it was shitty because she brought the kids, I guess they have been regulars there lately, but now she's taking the kids. She dropped the kids off Sunday evening, didn't take long for it to come out of the little ones mouths, then my oldest daughter told the little two not to say things about stuff like that, mom said not to say anything about any of it. I ask my oldest one if she's met OM and his kids, tells me yes, couple weeks ago on a Friday night they went over after my W got home from work and stayed until after 11 pm.
I'm pissed that she's introducing the OM to my kids, I'm pissed that she's not making them a priority when she has time with them, she has multiple times had them stay the night with grandparents/aunts or had her niece come over and stay so she can go see OM. It such a transition for the kids, especially the oldest one, and she still can't put them first or spend quality time with them when she has them, it is just about the OM. My oldest daughter said she Facetimes and text OM daughters all the time(same age as my oldest) but she never calls or text when I have the kids. She'll go from Friday morning dropping them at school to Sunday at 5 without ever talking to them, asking about them, or anything, and that is every single weekend I have them.
Plus the fact she's always telling me she wants to be friends, she's not trying to hurt me, she's not trying to shove the OM down my throat, on and on. Really you can't go out to eat somewhere else? Even her mom told me Saturday evening, she calls to see how I'm doing after I leave for the way my W was to me, and tells me that the way her daughter is being how I'm being so strong. I don't feel strong, she says I can't believe you haven't blew up at her, How I'm hanging on to hope, and not just completely gave up. That if it was her she would say good riddance and shut her out.
Anyway, just another day/weekend of the continued craziness.
JC, I know this stuff hurts, and it hurts bad!!! But reading your post I don't think your W is doing anything mean or spiteful, she's just moving on. And you've got to let her. It doesn't sound like she's doing anything to put the girls in danger. Is she being a great mom? No. But she's not doing anything that warrants action on your part.
Well later in the evening my W's dad calls and ask if I could come help him track a deer, so I did, got that done and he tells me to come over to the house and visit a while. I still talk to her parents daily, she told me when we separated not to cut her parents out, that I meant to much to them.
That's fine, but...
W walks in with clothes for the girls, I make small talk, how are you, how was Thanksgiving, she answered with one word snaps so I leave, figure I'm intruding on her space or something.
That's not. If your W is at her parent's house, then consider yourself "not welcome" no matter what her parents say. You are indeed intruding on her space. You could have helped him and left without going in the house, or apologized to him and said you don't feel comfortable coming over there when she's there.
Well found out she was in a huge rush because she took the little two and went to the steak house in my hometown(500 people), and went out to eat with OM and his kids.
This falls under the category of "this hurts to hear but she's not doing anything wrong so I need to suck it up and live with it."
I mean several people text me and said that they thought it was shitty because she brought the kids
"I appreciate the concern but we're separated and I would rather not hear about her personal activities unless she's putting the kids in harm's way." People love to gossip and stir up s***. Don't be a party to it.
I ask my oldest one if she's met OM and his kids
Don't ask. I went through this with my kids, one of my daughters finally told me to quit asking because it upset her. I was just curious, but I never considered the fact that it would upset the kids talking about it. I never asked again.
I'm pissed that she's introducing the OM to my kids, I'm pissed that she's not making them a priority when she has time with them, she has multiple times had them stay the night with grandparents/aunts or had her niece come over and stay so she can go see OM.
Of course you are, you have every right to be. But you don't have any say in the matter. This is your W moving on to a life without you. It's painful, but it's inevitable.
She'll go from Friday morning dropping them at school to Sunday at 5 without ever talking to them, asking about them, or anything, and that is every single weekend I have them.
You're not going to like it no matter what. If she was constantly calling and texting you'd probably gripe that she doesn't trust you, right? You should be giving her plenty of time and space anyway, so if she's no contact then that's a good thing.
Plus the fact she's always telling me she wants to be friends, she's not trying to hurt me, she's not trying to shove the OM down my throat, on and on. Really you can't go out to eat somewhere else?
I think you said it's a small town? I'm sure you'd prefer she drive 100 miles away to eat out but it's probably not realistic. Try to learn to accept and deal with these things. I don't think she's intentionally trying to hurt you, like I said this sounds like her moving on to her "dreamy new life" with OM. The best thing you can do is let her do it. Because before long no doubt "the bloom will be off the rose".
Sometimes I feel like the view towards my stich is that she is justified with what she is doing because I hurt her. Is that true? Am I viewing my situation in the wrong light?
I guess I feel like I went through a period of no hope for our marriage, I felt like it was dead, my W never listened or cared. I was in a bad spot, just a daily trudge, and that opened me up to the EA and excitement that came with that, that eventually became a PA. I felt guiltily and knew it was wrong, but had a terrible time getting unhooked from the situation. I was able to become unhooked and get out of it when it was discovered. I'm currently reading Torn Asunder, and a line in the book hit at me, that a lot of times the infidel will have the best nights of rest after they are caught, while the betrayed is sleepless. It is so true, it was a weight lifted. I guess it hard to explain but I was back to where I wanted to be, but I had almost a year to start coming to that realization on my own.
I know I hurt her, more than I can probably comprehend, but I feel like she is followed along the same paths as I. She was hurting, was vulnerable, probably hopeless, but told me and showed me exactly the opposite. That opened her up to the EA, 1000's of text, pictures, sharing feelings of mutual attraction, escape, excitement. Saying I love you, talks about the future, hiding it from me. Telling me she never felt this way before, what if this was her one chance to be happy. Then me finding it and her being remorseful and stopping contact, but then once it started again it was like she wasn't going to let that feeling escape again.
So yes, I had a PA while married, she said we were separating to work on the marriage, that she wasn't really even thinking about divorce, then the next night went to OMs house and never looked back.
So when I see things like "she's not doing anything wrong", it makes me feel like I'm in wrong for my view towards what she is doing, that she isn't a Wayward Wife.
Please don't take this as argumentative, I'm seriously trying to see if I am wrong in my view point of her actions. Is her mindset that of a wayward wife or something different?
Thank you.
I'm sure its to see if she can get a response from me or maybe not, I'm sure she doesn't care if I have response or not. She seems to do a very good job about not really telling me directly that she has plans with the OM, but instead in text about kid schedules she usually will say what she doing or where she going but then when it involves the OM she is just vague enough to make sure I know she has plans with him.
I never ask, but its hard to not respond with frustration or something, so I don't respond at all. Earlier in the week she asked if she could have the kids Thanksgiving in late afternoon to go to her Grandmas, I say no problem, mines at noon, that one is at like 3. Then today she text and says never mind, I can have then all day. She is supposed to keep them Thursday night. Says its going to be after bedtime when before she gets back from out of town (OM family and kids are all 3 hours away), so I know she'll be with OM, she has never missed her grandma's Thanksgiving in the 16 years we've been together, and she will pick them up super late or did she need to make arrangements with her mom.
I know, I know, I just need to get use to it. I just have to deal with it, but it just seems like she slips just enough information into kid schedules to make sure I know she's with the OM or is going to be with him, or that she's going to be out of town over the weekend, or whatever. I don't want to hear it, I don't want to think about it, and know I have to hear my kids using his name around me. Just feel like she does it for a response and that she just don't give a hell that its hurtful.
I know I'm just bitching, trying to be calm and put together around her is just difficult because she does the same thing at drop-off when we see each other in person.
JC -
Some of your understanding on your WW mindset is probably correct - the addiction, excitement, and guilt. And yes, she probably is justifying it because of your previous affair, and so she might be in a mindset where she doesn't care if you know and is hurt.
The difference is that she is female, so she is a bit more emotionally invested than you were - so from what I read is harder to drop the affair on a dime.
Okay so the W just called me. Asked me about kid schedule for tonight, that we just discussed 3 hours ago via text. She never calls anymore, so I found it odd anyway, but anyway, she's clearly crying and having a hard time keeping it together on the phone. I ask her what's going on, she said oh just work, and she's now bawling and barley keeping it together. I tell her, "I'm sorry work is so stressful right now, I'm sure you can handle it". She just says it her fault, everything is just so stressful right now. I tell her if she wants to talk about what's going on at work she can but I'm sure she can handle it.
She then ask me, " how are you doing, seriously how are you doing". Just reply, "not bad. Seriously though you can talk to me, I'm sure you'll be okay, I've always listened and supported you".
W: "I know you have, I appreciate it so much! (Still crying) I want you to talk to me and tell me how your doing".
Me: Thanks, okay.
W: "Seriously how are you doing, you can talk to me!" Almost pleading.
Me: I know this sounds dumb but it's what I did to get away from the conversation. Acting like I just seen someone, "Oh hey how are you doing!" Then to my wife, "Hey I got to go, I'm sure work will be fine, and sorry it's stressful. See you when you drop girls off tomorrow!" Then hung up.
Kept a calm, polite tone the entire time. She tried to get me to say things, to tell her how I'm struggling or whatever, and I didn't (even though I wanted too!).
She has never had job issues until OM, pretty much been constant since then. Even when I was at home they were starting, pretty sure work is where she communicated constantly, and at that time was texting and calling me alot. Doesn't see the job problems are probably connected to OM.
I'm sure I could have done things better but felt like an improvement. Before I would have went full relationship talk, how much I love her, how I'm always available to her, and so on.
So I guess I'm looking for feedback on the good and bad.
Out of the blue my W text me and says: 11 years ago I called you to tell you Addie was on the way. Honestly I'm so sorry I wasn't a better wife and made you look else where. I never meant for our lives to get this complicated.
What do I respond? I want to tell her that it was my fault, that it was my problems that lead to this. That she was always enough and still is. That I'm sorry I wasn't a better husband and that she felt like she couldn't stay.
I'm sure that is all wrong. Please give me some advice.
Hi JC08,
Do you believe she didn't hear you're sorry for cheating and willing to work hard on the marriage? If you've never told her those things before, perhaps it's worth telling her 1x? However, by now I suspect you'd told her many times. You're right--no point in saying the same things and expecting a different result.
PS - I'm saying these words to myself as much as I'm saying them to you. My ex said, "It's really hard to understand how you could <blah> <blah> <blah> and then expect me to <two requirements for reconciliation>" At that point, no more to say. She heard and rejected my terms.
I have told her many many times how sorry I was for everything. I have always took the blame for my actions and I have always stressed that it was never her fault and that she didn't have any short comings that lead me to having an affair. That my actions were my fault and no one else's.
The only things she had said after leaving is that she wished I worked as hard on saving the marriage before she got to the point of leaving. I wish I would have too but before she met the OM and started her EA she only ever told me that we were great, that our marriage was stronger and we were happier. Little did I know where she and our marriage was actually at.
Maybe she temp checking, maybe she's still confused about what she really want, I just don't know, but I know that I probably shouldn't read to much into it, because in reality I have no idea what is going through her head or what she is feeling.
So I have been trying hard to detach, to go dark, to only discuss kid stuff, to be happy and up beat around her. Basically follow all the rules. But Im learning that I suck at detaching, I have been doing good until Christmas and she takes the kids to his house for Christmas, shows up with a new diamond necklace, on and on. She seriously says and thinks we can be good friends, wants us to talk and have good conversation, and just be happy with each other.
She want all of this even though she pushes forward hard with divorce, even though she pushing to sell the house and the land, so we start back over at square one.
I get and completely understand we have to communicate because we have four children, but where does she get off telling me that she never thought she would see the day after 16 years that we couldn't carry on normal conversation, even when we were at our worse(this is at our worse), that we always talked and had good conversation.
Does she not understand that if she wants a divorce so bad that she get none of me? If you want out so bad, if we are not good enough to work on, if you had to turn to another man and never look back that I'm not going to be your BFF anymore?
Because every time I try to be nice and be friendly she usually just ramps up how much she loves me but can't be married to me. How she never wants me out of her life, just not as her husband. Fine I get it, but you don't want me, then im not going to be here for scraps of your love.
JC08,
Well if you are not going to be around for scraps of her love, you need to tell and show her that, it seems obvious that you are doing things that send signals that you are.
Start detaching and she will get the message loud and clear. Learn to detach with LOVE. Learn to move forward and get out of those friendly conversations. It's also clear that she doesn't respect you, if she wears the OM presents around you.
Start by making yourself sparse when she's around and it's her time with the children.
And to answer your questions about her getting what she's going to lose: NO she doesn't get it, she in a very selfish state and an fantasy. She's wanting what she wants and guess what she's getting it at the moment. Stop feeding your side of her fantasy and let her start to feel what a life without JC is really going to feel like.
Onward and forward
Joejoe
Finally told me that she is going to Mexico with him, I knew she was going, but she hadn't said anything or told me dates. All I responded was I just need dates and nothing else, because she asked how much I wanted to know.
How much does she think I want to know?!
Lovingly detach? How do I do that? At this point she's picking him over everything else in her life. Kids, family, friends, morals, values. I seriously don't want to have interactions with her, she wants to visit when I drop kids off, not about kids, but like best freaking friends. I pretty much drop the kids off, say "Hey" with a smile and leave. It hurts so much to try and talk, hurts less to have no interactions. that's probably not lovingly detaching but after 5 months of this I'm tired of all the hurt and pain of here acting like I'm supposed to just accept this and be her freaking friend as everything else falls apart.
What is the WW mindset when it comes to trusting the AP. She has made continued comments that she implicitly trust him without doubt. She totally forgets he pursued a married woman and her reaction to his advance at first where negative, do they just totally forget that the AP had motives when he was pursuing her?
I guess I was just looking for some insight to way she so implicitly trust everything he says?
Because she is basing everything on her emotions and not logic and reason.
Why is she talking about the AP with you? That’s disrespectful and you need to put a stop to it. Have you read up on boundaries?
She'll call about something to do with kids, then she'll use the opportunity to make jabs or comments. Last night she asked a few things concerning basketball schedule for our oldest girl. I answered questions, then her go to after I make the the conversation short is to ask if I'm upset or mad, I say no not at all, just have some things I need to get done and that I thought everything about the kids was discussed. She then said something along the lines of, fine don't talk and communicate with me, I can't believe you are being this way, you know me better than anyone for 16 years, and now you won't even talk to me, I never thought that day would come and it breaks my heart. My response was I am willing to communicate about the kids, but that is about it, this is what divorce kinda is and that was what you wanted.
She then got super upset, yelled that I caused her to talk to another man, that atleast she can trust him, and a couple other things. At that point I said that I'm going to get off the phone, that I answered all the questions pertaining to the kids and was not rude or angry and that I'm not going to get yelled at for nothing. She started making some other comments and I just said I'm going to let you go and I'll see you and the girls at the games tomorrow and hung up.
I almost hate answering the phone, everything had been discussed via text, but she calls to pretty much ask if I'm mad, why can't I be more talkative, why are my answers short, then uses that as an opportunity to make her comments, justifications, or push blame for the situation squarely onto me, and she does it without any relationship talk from me.
I have read the boundaries thread, I'm going to have to read it again and get better at enforcing them. Because I pretty much cut her off and said I wasn't going to be yelled at and was ending the conversation she will make jabs about, "well I can't talk or you'll just hang up on me", and I guess my natural tendency is to defend myself when she does that and I know that nothing I say will matter and it just drags into bad conversations, which she seems to love to do at this point it seems.
I'm seriously considering when she calls, not answering, and just texting her to find out if something was needed, then if it's kid related I can respond or otherwise see what she wants. Because almost Everytime she calls it turns into something similar to last night.
And yesterday was a pretty good day until that, I don't know why her crappy comments drag me down so bad but they do, which is just another reason I need to stay away from phone conversations because it goes that way almost Everytime, while texting it doesn't seem to happen and I have more control over the conversation.
W,
I feel that our phone calls are unproductive. If you have any questions about the kids, please send me a text and I will answer you when I get a chance.
Then let her calls go to VM.
So last night she wanted to come by and tell the girls bye before leaving for 10 days. I felt like she could have picked them up from school and seen them before I got off work and felt it was disrespectful to come to my house and tell the kids bye in front of me so she could go on a trip with the OM. But I allowed her to, I excused myself outside and waited around while she told them bye. When she left she had to make the usual comments about is this how's it going to be? After 16 years we aren't going to talk and be friends, we are just throwing that all away? I just responded, no it doesn't have to be this way, but this is your decision to divorce not mine and that is what divorce is. She pretty much responded that the OM and his ex-wife get along great and are still best friends and she doesn't understand why I can't be that way. My response was because I don't just want scraps of you or our relationship and then went in the house and she left.
Hopefully after this trip and with the holidays being over there will be fewer personal interactions. The personal interactions leave me hanging onto hope that currently isn't there. The next thing I need to tackle after she gets back is telling her that there is no need to sit by me at basketball games for our daughter.
Last Saturday she can up and sat down beside me and acted like nothing was different between us, at one point she turned around to talk to someone and put her hand on my knee to turn around. My friend I was sitting next to called me after the game and couldn't believe the way she acts, like you can't tell we are divorcing and living apart the way she acts. Don't get me wrong I love her but that situation [censored], makes me anxious and uneasy, let alone her constantly texting, which she never did before the OM. We are not together, so why act like everything is normal between us?
Why does she act this way? If I was so horrible to be married to and our marriage wasn't worth working through our problems, then why want to be friends and act like everything is normal between us except we are divorced? It's confusing to me, it frustrates me to no end, and it makes it incredibly difficult to detach. I guess my idea is if you want a divorce then we have business to deal with concerning kids and that is it. If you want me in your life in another capacity then you need to work on our marriage, otherwise there can't be anything else. And her response to anything like this is always the same, you just hate me, I'm not a horrible person, why can't we still be friends and involved in each others lives?!
So my wife just got back from Mexico with the OM a few days ago, never called or text to check on the kids for over a week. Regardless of that I guess she started calling me last night, I had my kids, so I didn't take the calls, she finally text and wants to drop them off super early because she has a early meeting on Friday. I always made her job and her schedule a priority, handled 90% of taking kids to school, dropping them off, ect. We worked the same hours and what not, always fell on me. Anyway, her parents are gone, so now she needs me to help her with her schedule and job.
She text me last night about 9, this morning at 9 she's back on trying to nail me down. I told her I'd get back to her. I don't feel like this is for the kids, feel like this is helping her, still being there when she needs something. Sent some big long text about how her job is the most stressful thing in her life right now and whatever. Feel like that diminishes the magnitude of the divorce and whatnot, also feel like you just took off over a week to go to Mexico, if things are so bad and stressful at work maybe she should have made that a priority.
Yes I can do that but I also have to change my schedule to do so. Is this part of making her realize that this is part of the decision she made, she shoves everything down my throat without a look back, but the moment she needs something it's about her needs again. Not sure what to do.
J,
Easy, tell her she has to figure it out. She just took a week off to travel. If it's an emergency you should help, but if it's not and you have to change your life up say, "I rather not, I really want to stick to our schedule". By saying that she might become vindictive in the short term, but she knows you will be there if it was an emergency, because you have been consistently on that front.
It's no longer your job, to make her job and life easy. It's now her job to figure out how to manage her life with having JC as a part of it.
Joejoe
I agree with Joe. Establish a schedule that you both agree to. Then if she wants to deviate from that schedule she has to figure out how to make that happen without your assistance. It sounds like she's using you as her personal babysitter and maybe even using it to control and manipulate you. I would put an end to that ASAP. Now if it goes both ways where every once in a while you help her due to an emergency meeting or something and she does the same for you, that is perfectly fine. That's what my XW and I did. But it sounds like your W takes and takes and takes but never gives.
I had told her last night that I would have to change my schedule and didn't know if I could do it, said I would get back to her later. Part of this was to delay to get thoughts and direction from here, then she sent yesterday, "nevermind, the company was going to change the meeting and it would be a different day. That she would let me know later what the day was". Then she asked questions about filing taxes together. And ended with, "have I always been this needy? Sorry I was such a pain in the ass".
Yes, yes she was, I literally always took care of everything, gave in to her wants, took care of kids, schedules, whatever else. Hell after she kicked me out she had to ask when our house payment was due and how much it was. Stupidity I thought that all the things I did showed her love and then after all we went through she would say how much I always took care of her, that was how she knew how much I was hurting when my affair happened because that wasn't/isn't who I am, that I wasn't a bad person. She's switched all that talk now! Lol
I haven't responded to any of those messages she sent, didn't see a need.
Then this morning she called, and it was about drop time at school, so I took the call to make sure something wasn't up with the kids. Instead all she did was complaining about her job, I could tell she was really upset, like stifling a cry. Said she was looking for a new job, that she couldn't stand her co-worker, who is her subordinate. She hired her and they became good friends, she use to love this job. She only had great reviews from management before she became so preoccupied with OM. So the point of her calling came down to she wanted to see if I would work with the schedule once she found a different job. I just listened, said sorry things are rough at work, and that first she would have to get a job and then we could tackle schedules. She seemed to be looking for support, which even at my worst, I always did, especially with her job when she stressed.
I didn't, I just listened said the above, and pretty much ended the conversation. Which was hard for me to do, I want to offer support, and talk, but it NEVER leads in a good direction, ever. So I didn't.
So in 6 months time she's leaving a job that has flexible hours, 6 weeks vacation, no weekends, no evenings, and that she had zero issues with until OM entered our lives. She's getting divorced. Gave up half of her time with her kids. Started a new relationship and went in neck deep, instantly. Has cut out all our old friends and her family, her parents never see or talk to her. Doesn't want the house and wants to move, I assume in with OM, she lives there half the time already. Just seems like a lot of huge life altering decisions in such a short time period.
I like your guys responses, I think that is the way I'll handle it when it comes up again. I have not asked for assistance once from her, I either change my schedule or make arrangements another way. I mean she didn't even tell me that she was going to Mexico, I asked her because I wanted to know when I was going to have my kids for 12 days straight.(he goes yearly, she girl number 3 in 3 years) It didn't hurt my feelings at all to have my kids for that big of stretch but she wasn't going to give me any notice. She didn't know if her parents could help or not because her mom called to tell me if I needed any help with my schedule to let me know, but she didn't even know she was going until the day before she left for Mexico. I'm sure she thought I'd blow a fuse when she brought it up, but I had pretty much assumed she was going.
So onward with my new crazy life. I guess side notes. I see a therapist weekly still, I still struggle with overwhelming thoughts and have a hard time sleeping and staying focused. I journal thoughts alot, I like writing, and it helps me organize and focus my thoughts. I don't feel like I have came very far emotionally in the last 6 months, my therapist, my mom, my wife's mom(we talk multiple times weekly, we always have) think I have. I just turned 35 and am in better shape than I have been since highschool. I go to the gym 5-6 days a week, have lost almost 40 pounds, and have went from not being able to run a mile to running a 25 minute 5k. GAL is tougher, pretty small community in rural area and just not a lot of activities. Got invited to drink a few beers with some guys after playing some Rec basketball, was excited about that, but OM truck was at the restaurant/bar, so I backed out. My wife doesn't want the house or land, kind of in the process of determining vales, it looks like we will come to an agreement and I'll have my house and land back. Which will give me a lot of projects to focus on and keep busy with. I hope that all gets wrapped up before spring so I can take advantage of nicer weather and longer days. Currently reading Boundaries by Henry and Cloud and am trying to continue to improve my skills and understanding to better deal with this and all situations and to get better emotional control over myself. Went through a period of drinking way to much when I didn't have my kids, alcohol is definitely a depressent for me. Went cold turkey, now I just drink a few beers here and there, so I was happy that I was able to control that. I have definitely learned that most things I use to think we're big stressors in my life are nothing, and I'm enjoying my kids more than ever. My oldest two ask to just live with me all the time. I am in the process of planning a trip to Rome sometime this summer. I feel like it will give me something else to plan and focus on rather than divorce and everything that brings up.
Anyway, I truly appreciate all feedback I get to my situation.
J,
Awesome job dealing and responding to your WW. You did great. Am also glad you are laying down a plan for this upcoming spring and summer. I hope you make out to Rome. I have never been, but I will make it some day, hopefully if you go you can tell me where all the hotspots are located.
You are becoming AMOAFWL. It's also natural to still have some emotional setbacks and pain. I still have my down days, but this forum and these awesome people provided me advice and resources that has helped me tremendously.
Keep up the hard work.
Onward and Upward.
Joejoe
So the weekend- my daughter had 2 basketball games on Saturday, she did not feel the best and seemed sluggish. Typically, like all people, kids especially, she doesn't feel good, she becomes short tempered and what not. So after the games are over I'm leaving with my kids (it was my weekend) and my W tries talking to our daughter that just got done playing ball. My daughter kinda snaps at her, she's 10, she's a girl (lol), she doesn't feel good, and she didn't have a good game and she knows it. Plus this situation hasn't been the easiest for her. Anyway she snaps back at my Wife's questions with something like I'm terrible at basketball, the coach hates me, ECT. Well my wife says something to her about calming down and my daughter responds with you don't care about me you only care about Steve (the OM) now I was a little ways behind them on the sidewalk with my other kids, so I couldn't hear everything. Basically my W grabs her by the arm and gets angry, tells our daughter she's not going to speak to her that way, my daughter doubles down with,"it's true!". My W let's lets her go and walks off towards her car. I figure she about to cry. Anyway, I get the kids in the my truck, tell my oldest to sit down, get buckled up and that she will not speak to her parents that way and I'll deal with her in a second. My W parked two spots over, I walk over, she's bawling, I just tell her that our daughter is 10, she's going to spew things, that she says things like that to me also.
So I get her de-escalated and probably provided more comforting than I should have. Truthfully I think my W acted selfishly for some what typical 10 year old being upset does. I think she shouldn't have pushed her, or walked off the way she did. I think she should expect some comments from our daughter like that. I mean we seperated and in 3 months you are introducing our kids to the OM. I kinda feel like telling her that a lot got dumped on this family and the kids and essentially you are instantly introducing them to him and his kids? I don't think that is putting them first, thats putting your wants first. Maybe I'm wrong with that but it's how I feel. Then kinda like when we were together, I comforted her and then dealt with talking to and doing the discipline of the kids. You just reaffirm to our daughter that she can say something mean and she can get under your skin and you'll just walk off instead of dealing with it. Additionally, did she not think all this could happen without being negative consequences with kids and their attitudes and actions?
She text me later and thanked me for talking to her and calming her down. I didn't respond. Heck I wasn't even sure that I should have done it, part of me thinks I should have loaded up the kids and left without talking to her. Actually I'm sure that is probably what you guys will tell me that is what I should have done.
Then today she's asking me to change schedule again for tomorrow morning, I just respond that I would rather not change our current schedule. Then she told me she applied for a new job and asked if I would be flexible enough to make the schedule work. I would like to respond that we have a schedule now(it's 50/50) but she is the one changing the schedule but it's not my responsibility to conform to her changes. I mean yes I will work with her but I want to relay that I'm not just going to change everything for her schedule because it's easier for me to do so. Currently, she doesn't even have the job, not does she know what the schedule is going to be, so not sure how anything can be discussed anyway.
On a side note, she going back to a job like she had 4 years ago. She'll work every other weekend until 7, and her weekdays will be until 8. Currently no weekends, can come and go as she pleases, off at 5, 6+ weeks vacation. This will dramatically cut into the little fantasy life her and OM have been having. Currently almost every weekend she doesn't have the kids they go somewhere. Now every weekend she doesn't work she'll have the kids, then not be available until 8 and the weekdays she works she'll have the kids. Going to dramatically change their pattern. I know I lived it for 6 years before she switched jobs. That was where so many bad habits got formed I think. She didn't get home until 830, kids were basically going to bed, I had done all the picking them up, baths suppers, got them around in the morning because she had to leave earlier, and of course did all the drop offs at school and daycare. Then on top of that, everyother weekend it was just me and the kids until 6:30 or 7 of Saturday and Sunday. I was always the one to take off work and make arrangements because her schedule was not flexible. That's all coming back, only, she's not going to have me. Maybe she doesn't remember how much that schedule sucked because she wasn't the one at home figuring all that out,I do though, and as the kids are getting older the schedules are just getting busier.
I would love to hear opinions on the above interaction. Im really trying to detach, not let her actions or emotions affect me, but it is difficult for me. 16 years of always being there to comfort her and take care of things for her. Yes in some regards I helped create her selfishness in our relationship. It's not an excuse for my actions, but I bent over backwards for her, her schedule, her wants, and mine always got pushed to the rear. I took the cowardly way by finding appreciation and validation from someone else instead of making her step up and us having real conversations with solutions that got implemented, but I didn't. Now I feel she's on that same selfish path and I'm still doing a good job of letting her dominate my schedule, my priorities, and I find it a hard thing to stop, but I think I'm realizing it, and starting to do a better job of setting boundaries.
With this job change if her schedule is close to how it use to be, it's going to be a nightmare with the split household. It will be a ever changing schedule, it will mess up my kids set patterns again, only much worse during the week. She has to know that the schedule is going to be a challenge, she keeps asking me if we can be flexible enough with our schedules to make it work. 1.) You don't even know what your schedule is going to be, so I am not going to give the blanket answer if yes. 2.) Remember, you decided that a life without me and the OM was a better option. Your work schedule and how to handle kids schedules during HER time is no longer my responsibility. Before this, her schedule dominated my schedule, I'm sure she expects the same now. 3.) She made this decision to change jobs and screw up a good/easy kid schedule. She made the decision to remove me as her husband, therefore removed my responsibilities towards her, her schedule, my life and my schedule is now my priority. 4.) I feel like us somewhat a selfish decision, her current job hit some difficulty, instead if staying and getting things straightened out, she's running off for greener pastures. The reason we/she made the job change 4 years ago was because retail work is a horrible schedule for families. Her current job, is great/perfect for a family. Flexible, no weekends or evenings, and lots of vacation that can be used at will. And she knows that but wants to make sure I'm still going to be there to simplify things for HER!
The more I think about it, the madder I get. Remember, you fired me, this is not my obligation or responsibility. My responsibility is to take care of my kids on my scheduled days. I shouldn't have to change schedules or be flexible to accommodate her schedule. I know I always have, I'm sure that is what she expects, and truthfully it's going to be hard for me not to just do what I've always done, but dammit divorce has consequences.
I seen this advice somewhere and I saved it, seems like a lot of truth to it when I apply it to my wife and things she has said.
It is an approved maxim in war, never do what the enemy wishes you to do, for this reason alone he desires it.- Napoleon I
She wishes you to be amicable and cooperate.
She wishes you to be neglectful of her emotional needs. It fuels and justifies her decisions.
She wishes you have angry outbursts and disrespectful judgments. It fuels and justifies her decisions.
She wishes you to be needy, clingy, depressed and pathetic. It fuels and justifies her decisions.
And most of all, she wishes you will keep the adultery, "Your little secret."
Go with Napoleon on this one.
She does this so you will go quietly into the night and become a "friendly" co-parent and support and enable her adultery.
Don't fall for this. She is just buying time with it. Let her know that if this is her plan, her "friend" is about to become the equivalent of a pissed off wounded Grizzly Bear. And she's the one who stuck it in the ass with a penknife.
There is a very common theme among the many former wayward wives that this board is so blessed to have. That is, the beginning of their wake up call from this self imposed nightmare began when their betrayed husbands manned-up, stood up and in no uncertain terms proudly made it firm and clear, that there is no room for another man in his life or his kid's life.
Wayward wives have NO respect for their betrayed husbands. Start getting that back today.
So is my current outlook with my situation completely off base? Am I just being bitter and vindictive? Or am I starting to realize that bending over backwards is what she wants, what I have always done, and helped get me to this spot and that behavior needs to stop and me start making my needs and life a priority, not hers.
J,
Dealing with the schedule. If she doesn't have the job yet, then ignore her request to discuss it. Second, if her new schedule doesn't work with yours and you'll already have a custody agreement in place, I would just rely on that.
What happened with your daughter, next time if you see that, calmly walk up to your WW and say, "this is neither the time or place for this". Take your daughter walk her to the car, and tell them, "I will be right back". Then, discipline your WW, something to the effect of, "I understand what our daughter said was hurtful, but you are her parent and an adult, under no instances should you treat her that way". And walk away, your job is not to comfort her no more. She has made her decisions, it's time for her to live with them. Your actions in this moment is important. First, it shows your daughter, that you will protect and you love her, no matter what (girls need to see their father protect them). Second, it shows your WW, that you will protect your kids, and you are not going to just allow her to act any way she wants.
Lastly, Don't be yourself up. Your were taking care of your family (what a man is suppose to do). Your WW took you for granted. It's her lost and your need to start acting like it. You don't have to pick her back up every time she falls (She's humpy dumpty and she's on her wall, stop waiting for her too fall). She has fired you from that job. If you got fired from a job, would you go back trying to ensure that job was still being taken care of, or would you look for another job and then start focusing on your new job. I bet you would start focusing on your new job. That new job you need to focus on now is, YOU and your kids! You are special and worth more than the universe can spend.
You will have down days, you will faulter, but just remember to get back up. Healing is=giving up the ability to change the past. You can't change the past so stop trying!!!
Onward and forward.
Joejoe
Text conversation between me and WW today:
Me: School sent slips home for parent teachers conferences. Kids conferences are from 6 to 6:30, does this time work for you?
W: Yes
Me: Okay I will e-mail the teachers and tell them to schedule those times for you and get mine arranged.
W: We can't go at the same time?
W: Are you that dysfunctional?
W: I'm not trying to be a pain but can you really not sit with our girls teachers and hear how they are doing?
Me: I'm just arranging things to work with my schedule. I did let the teachers know those times worked for you.
W: So are we going together or not?
Me: No, I'm making arrangements that work for me.
W: You sound like white trash. Why can't you stand me?
Me: I'm sorry you think I can't stand you, I don't feel that way. Last time you only went to one conference and I was the only one to set up my own conference for the teacher that cancelled. I did not realize it was an issue to you, I'm sorry you feel like me arranging conferences to my schedule was against you.
W: I think having separate conferences is like we are not mature enough to put our kids first before ourselves. We don't have to get along, I would prefer we did, but we are 4 girls parents.
I did not reply to the last message. First off I don't feel like anything that she is doing is putting the kids first, I mean her personal mantra she has repeated through this process has been over and over, "I choose to pick myself and what I wanted first, I picked ME!". Secondly, there has not been much done to make sure we could get along, you repeatedly blame me for everything, make snide comments, and bring the OM up all the time. Third, the last parents teachers conference she missed 2 of the 3 and was late to the final one because she was having boudoir photos taken for the OM (with the gift certificate I bought her at a charity auction 6 months before you left me for OM). Lastly we have routinely not gone together to this because one of us stayed home with kids to do supper/homework/baths, ect. The meeting is more of a formality as the teachers keep in good contact with a school app and always let us know how progress is and they reach out anytime there are concerns, which there are none with any of kids, with neither grades or behavior in school.
Is this a decent example of validating and not allowing myself to get drug into an argument? I feel like she argues and justifies whatever position she takes and expects me to comply otherwise I'm acting like white trash and I'm being dysfunctional.
Overall well handled. Probably could have cut it short, especially since she was disrespecting you.
Just one question, why were you arranging Parent Teacher conference times for her? If you were going on your own, why not just setup times that work for you and leave her fend for herself?
The School sent home slips with the times they had scheduled for the kids. If the times work you mark a box or email them and let them know. If not then you contact the teachers and make other arrangements.
I had the girls the night the slips got sent home, I just was giving her the option of taking those times and me setting up different one or if those times didn't work for her I would have taken them and let her do her own. So when I was arranging my times the teachers were asking about the times they had already sent and I was just making sure to keep everyone on the same page I guess.
The School sent home slips with the times they had scheduled for the kids. If the times work you mark a box or email them and let them know. If not then you contact the teachers and make other arrangements.
I had the girls the night the slips got sent home, I just was giving her the option of taking those times and me setting up different one or if those times didn't work for her I would have taken them and let her do her own. So when I was arranging my times the teachers were asking about the times they had already sent and I was just making sure to keep everyone on the same page I guess.
So you are her secretary?
JC, what I am trying to get you to see that you reached out to her about something that if you weren't going to attend with her didn't need to be done. LBSs reach out to the WASs for a variety of reasons. Sometimes using something like this is just an excuse to reach out to the WAS. Sometimes it is a way to passive-aggressively let them know that you will be attending separately. Etc.
At most, you should have sent her the slips with the girls. Setup your own times to talk to their teachers, and not worried about what she did with the slips.
Do you know why you chose this particular path?
Not following your sitch. Just my two cents:
Text conversation between me and WW today:
Me: School sent slips home for parent teachers conferences. Kids conferences are from 6 to 6:30, does this time work for you?
W: Yes
Me: Okay I will e-mail the teachers and tell them to schedule those times for you and get mine arranged.
That would have ended it.
or
ME:School sent slips home for parent teachers conferences. Kids conferences are from 6 to 6:30. Next blabladay.
You made your plans. Informed her. She does what she does.
W: I think having separate conferences is like we are not mature enough to put our kids first before ourselves. We don't have to get along, I would prefer we did, but we are 4 girls parents.
I did not reply to the last message. First off I don't feel like anything that she is doing is putting the kids first, I mean her personal mantra she has repeated through this process has been over and over, "I choose to pick myself and what I wanted first, I picked ME!". Secondly, there has not been much done to make sure we could get along, you repeatedly blame me for everything, make snide comments, and bring the OM up all the time. Third, the last parents teachers conference she missed 2 of the 3 and was late to the final one because she was having boudoir photos taken for the OM (with the gift certificate I bought her at a charity auction 6 months before you left me for OM). Lastly we have routinely not gone together to this because one of us stayed home with kids to do supper/homework/baths, ect. The meeting is more of a formality as the teachers keep in good contact with a school app and always let us know how progress is and they reach out anytime there are concerns, which there are none with any of kids, with neither grades or behavior in school.
Is this a decent example of validating and not allowing myself to get drug into an argument?
Not responding was a great decision.
Keep fighting that urge to respond. Keep things as short as possible to get the message across. Use the simplest words.
Here is how I would validate you:
You sound frustrated. Maybe a little angry. Is this how you felt at the end of your convo with the mother?
I see what you are saying. I guess since I had the kids when the slips came home I felt I was responsible to let her know slips came home so she could either take those times or set up her own. Yes I see now that I could have emailed her copies of them or sent with kids, set up my own times, and let her do whatever she wanted with the schedules. I'm just guessing that she would have asked the same questions she did today, which would have required no response from me.
I don't feel like I did this out of a sense of control or passive aggressiveness but maybe I did without consciously thinking that was what I was doing.
I do not think that I was searching for a reason to reach out to her, she sends me many text messages about things that I don't see as necessary nor that need an answer and I do not respond. I usually have anxiety when I know I'm going to have to have interactions with her, so I steer clear as possible. The less interaction (text or personal) I have with her the better emotional stability I have, so I really don't think I'm searching for a way to reach out.
Guess that leaves me with either trying to have a sense of control or still feeling like I have certain responsibilities towards her, both of which I don't.
I am learning that I am a slow learner with this whole process!
JC, ain't no one more hard-headed than I am! Read my threads. Oh my, sometimes I was lunkhead for some of the non-DBing things I did.
These sitches are not easy. DBing is tough. Detachment is hard. That is why we call it a process. Just keep working at it.
But please do not let her talk to you that way. "Are you white trash?" respond with "I refuse to discuss anything with you when you are being disrespectful."
I think having separate conferences is like we are not mature enough to put our kids first before ourselves. We don't have to get along, I would prefer we did, but we are 4 girls parents.
I’m not sure if I’ve commented much or kept up on your sitch or not. Sometimes they run together plus people sometimes change screen names further confusing me - which does not sometimes take much to do.
. But from the 30,000 ft level just looking quickly from the outside, I have to agree with your wife’s statement. Why can’t you go together to something like this? Is this not what co-parenting is all about? What is in the best interest of your kids? And if you really do have rock solid reasons not to go with W, like something really bad happened last time you did or something, why are you scheduling HER appointment? I’m not getting this at all.
What are you trying to accomplish?
What would be best for your children?
I never chimed I’m before, but your wife has a point. There is no reason why you need separate parent teacher conferences. She asked you if the scheduled conferences times worked. Did they? If not, she seemed willing to rearrange them. And think about the teachers! They are taking time away from their families at night trying to fit every kid in. Don’t make it more difficult on them when it’s unnecessary. You need to choose your battles.
Hi JC08,
I usually tell my ex-wife, "Parent teacher conferences are this week. I'm going Tuesday at 3pm." It's her choice to come, not come, or schedule another time. The teacher usually e-mails a notice, too. In practice only I go. She says she's busy and I tell her I'll let her know how it turns out.
I could have emailed her copies of them or sent with kids, set up my own times, and let her do whatever she wanted with the schedules. I'm just guessing that she would have asked the same questions she did today, which would have required no response from me.
"We can't go at the same time"" would be unlikely and a non-sequitur if you sent her a copy. She may have said, "When are you going?" or "I could go on Tuesday or Wednesday, are you coming too?" In her shoes I would also have had a negative reaction to your texts. I wouldn't have called you names, of course.
This is emotional stuff. No big deal. I goof about as often as I succeed.
I rarely do this, but I disagree. There is nothing wrong with going to conferences by yourself. Not every pair of exs can stand to be in the same room as each other. My W's parents are like that. They are like sodium metal and water. Combining them is explosive.
Again, my issue was you arranging her times for her, but JC08 you seem to get that now.
I have done PTC both ways. Sometimes just me and the kids. Other times X was there.
DETACH. You do what you need to do to support your kids. Let her do what she needs to do.