Deciding When To Move On

[HrtHsbnd]

Previous Thread

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2856023#Post2856023

I wanted to give an update.

I felt that things had been going well, especially in MC. We had been getting along pretty good for awhile. Yesterday was great! We had a pretty could MC session, even though she said she still wasn’t sure if she wanted to work on our marriage. We’ve been separated for 6 months and I would think she would know by now.

In addition, on Monday at our sons doctors appointment we talked at her request. I told her that I was tired of being on the defensive and I felt she was in a negative loop that she just couldn’t get out of and that I was not her enemy. I just wanted to support her and agree with her so that she knew I wasn’t trying to argue. I told her I was fine if she wanted to divorce and I was fine if she wanted to work on the marriage. I told her at this point I was just really done with all of it. She got somewhat angry, but surprised.

Because of my feelings and our conversation, I told her that I felt that she wasn’t capable of having an adult conversation. To which she just put her head down and didn’t disagree with me. I decided that it was time to offer her my wedding ring back. It was weird because at that point I feel like she knew I was serious and tired of her nonsense, so she literally ran to her car as quickly as she could and took off. It was weird how she acted. I would’ve thought she wanted to take it.

She was VERY nice to me the rest of Monday, Tuesday and yesterday. In fact, we had a great MC session yesterday. I told the doctor what I did and why I did it. He asked me what I felt I needed to do to earn her trust and respect back, so I asked my W. She told me Coparenting, consistency and doing what she asks. By the time the session was over I felt better. I don’t know how she felt about it, but I honestly didn’t care. The one question I have is that now the only advice the doctor gives us is to continue only talking about our son and leave the relationship talks in therapy. I don’t see how only talking about our relationship 4 hours a month really moves our marriage forward and fixes it.

Outside, we talked more. She prayed with me and I asked her what I needed to do girl get her heat back. She told me she wanted me to write her letters. She didn’t realize all the things I’ve done to work on myself and our marriage. It really affected her. As everyone knows her parents are a huge unhealthy part of our lives, so she wants me to write her parents apology letters. I highly doubt my lawyer will let me, though.

I think she felt that way too because yesterday evening we spoke for about 45 mins on webchat, but I only spoke to my son for about 5 mins. He didn’t want to talk last night anyway. She told me about her job, her day, etc. I listened, validated, congratulated and tried to make her feel the way I always made her feel.

Then today happened

Today was just a mess.

She was so sweet last night. She told me she wasn’t going anywhere, but would let me know if she did. I told her I would do the same, but didn’t because that wasn’t giving her space.

Our son started practice today, so this was the first time we’ve had to be together in public to work on coparenting. I felt it was awkward. As usual, she brought her mother. This was also the first time I’d seen her mother in months. I spoke to her mother and tried to be nice, but got yelled at a couple of times. I was also told that I would NEVER get back in her parents heart. I got the blame for everything again with her mother too. I took it because I’m trying to humble myself. I explained that this wasn’t the time or place to get angry at me. She agreed and walked off.

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time. When practice was over, I took my son to her car where she was there. I told her it was nice to see her and I tried to shake her hand. She absolutely refused and walked off. When I asked her why she wouldn’t do that, she said because it was weird. I don’t know why that’s weird.

We texted for about 20 mins after, as I was trying to understand why she wasn’t so cold and distant with me. She just said because she was. I feel it ‘s all because she was around her parents and I don’t know how to overcome that issue.

I know that this isn’t DB well, but in MC we are supposed to be working on coparenting, trust, respect, communication, and empathy. Therapy is her idea and she always asks me to go with her. Now, she agrees it’s more than coparenting and only says coparenting when she wants to argue.

One more thing, I spoke to my lawyer yesterday. He told me that she asked for an extension to the discovery documents I sent her. He said he agreed to the extension, but her lawyer said he needed to get my discovery documents out soon. I feel that’s another positive sign she doesn’t want our marriage to end, but I don’t know anymore.

Im trying to stay positive. I’m GALing like a madman. I’m living my own life. I am trying my best to be so patient. I’m just to my breaking point.

Is 6 months a long time to be patient? Are these ups and downs normal? Why do they happen? When is enough enough?!?

[HrtHsbnd]

I would love a reply.

I feel like I haven’t been getting any responses lately and I really need some help!

[job]

I am surprised that she is attending MC w/you. Generally, they don't go or they go a couple of times and then tune out whatever is said or even doing the homework assignments that are provided during the session.

You may not realize it, but you are putting pressure on her to return to the relationship. She is not ready to do so and yes, there are going to be plenty of ups and downs for many, many months. Why? Because she is confused and really isn't sure she wants the old relationship w/you. Right now, to her, you are an authority figure (maybe like a parent).

You need to step back and give her plenty of space and time. Maybe it's time you visited the MC by yourself for a bit and talk out what is going on w/you and how to handle your situation. We recommend space and time here and not to put pressure on them. Six months isn't a long time for them to work through their issues. We have people all over the forums that have been detaching and being patient for many years and, in some cases, it has worked out.

Let me explain to what happened w/the hot and cold behavior. After the conversation you had w/her the other day, she warmed up just a bit and she began to feel those warm and fuzzy feelings again for you. However, later, she realized that she was getting close again w/you and that right now, in her mind, you are the enemy. All she knows is that she's not happy and that you and the relationship may be the reason she's not happy...so, back to being cold towards you.

Step back, give her space and time. You will need to treat her like a skittish colt and allow her to come to you and no more relationship discussions or discussions about divorce for now. Keep the focus on you and your family. Dig deeper for patience because it is going to take a lot of patience to get through this.

I suggest that you read Sandi2's 37 Rules #2. They are well written and to the point. Here's the link to her thread:

Sandi2's 37 Rules #2

I would also suggest that you read the Detachment Thread to have a better understanding of what detachment looks like. That link was posted in the homework welcome thread of Cadet's. If you can't locate it, please let us know and we will be happy to provide that link to you as well.

[SteveLW]

Previous Thread

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2856023#Post2856023

I wanted to give an update.

I felt that things had been going well, especially in MC. We had been getting along pretty good for awhile. Yesterday was great! We had a pretty could MC session, even though she said she still wasn’t sure if she wanted to work on our marriage. We’ve been separated for 6 months and I would think she would know by now.

Impatience will kill you! Stay patient. 6 months is nothing in the big scheme of things. Just remain patient. If you force her to choose likely she'll choose D. While you think that is better than limbo, once you are going through it that may change your mind. Be careful what you wish for.

In addition, on Monday at our sons doctors appointment we talked at her request. I told her that I was tired of being on the defensive and I felt she was in a negative loop that she just couldn’t get out of and that I was not her enemy. I just wanted to support her and agree with her so that she knew I wasn’t trying to argue. I told her I was fine if she wanted to divorce and I was fine if she wanted to work on the marriage. I told her at this point I was just really done with all of it. She got somewhat angry, but surprised.

". I told her that I was tired of being on the defensive and I felt she was in a negative loop that she just couldn’t get out of and that I was not her enemy."

Reread that statement. It sound confrontational and accusatory. What she likely heard was "YOU'VE (her) have put me(you) on the defensive! YOU ARE NEGATIVE. YOU have made me YOUR enemy!" Do you think that hurt or hindered your sitch?

Because of my feelings and our conversation, I told her that I felt that she wasn’t capable of having an adult conversation. To which she just put her head down and didn’t disagree with me. I decided that it was time to offer her my wedding ring back. It was weird because at that point I feel like she knew I was serious and tired of her nonsense, so she literally ran to her car as quickly as she could and took off. It was weird how she acted. I would’ve thought she wanted to take it.

Wow. You went from maybe confrontational and accusatory to full-blown confrontational and accusatory. Have you read the validation thread?!? You need to read it. Study it. Use it. IF she asks to talk like she did.....listen, and validate. That's it.

She was VERY nice to me the rest of Monday, Tuesday and yesterday. In fact, we had a great MC session yesterday. I told the doctor what I did and why I did it. He asked me what I felt I needed to do to earn her trust and respect back, so I asked my W. She told me Coparenting, consistency and doing what she asks. By the time the session was over I felt better. I don’t know how she felt about it, but I honestly didn’t care. The one question I have is that now the only advice the doctor gives us is to continue only talking about our son and leave the relationship talks in therapy. I don’t see how only talking about our relationship 4 hours a month really moves our marriage forward and fixes it.

SO an expert gives you advice...and you buck it because you don't feel it is right. Hrt, I could find a really good steak by sticking my head up a bull's butt.....or I could take the advice of a trusted butcher. I think I will opt for the latter. Talking about your R outside of therapy SETS YOUR MARRIAGE BACK!! Trust your MC.

Outside, we talked more. She prayed with me and I asked her what I needed to do girl get her heat back. She told me she wanted me to write her letters. She didn’t realize all the things I’ve done to work on myself and our marriage. It really affected her. As everyone knows her parents are a huge unhealthy part of our lives, so she wants me to write her parents apology letters. I highly doubt my lawyer will let me, though.

I think she felt that way too because yesterday evening we spoke for about 45 mins on webchat, but I only spoke to my son for about 5 mins. He didn’t want to talk last night anyway. She told me about her job, her day, etc. I listened, validated, congratulated and tried to make her feel the way I always made her feel.

This is what LH was talking about. You aren't DBing. AFter the 5 minute chat with your son, you should explain you are really busy and need to go. Getting sucked into these long talks so often are not helping.

Then today happened

Today was just a mess.

She was so sweet last night. She told me she wasn’t going anywhere, but would let me know if she did. I told her I would do the same, but didn’t because that wasn’t giving her space.

Our son started practice today, so this was the first time we’ve had to be together in public to work on coparenting. I felt it was awkward. As usual, she brought her mother. This was also the first time I’d seen her mother in months. I spoke to her mother and tried to be nice, but got yelled at a couple of times. I was also told that I would NEVER get back in her parents heart. I got the blame for everything again with her mother too. I took it because I’m trying to humble myself. I explained that this wasn’t the time or place to get angry at me. She agreed and walked off.

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time. When practice was over, I took my son to her car where she was there. I told her it was nice to see her and I tried to shake her hand. She absolutely refused and walked off. When I asked her why she wouldn’t do that, she said because it was weird. I don’t know why that’s weird.

Are you in IC? I am detecting some serious empathy problems from you. WHo CARES if you think it is weird...she does. You need to try to see things through the eyes of the people you interact with. Their perception is their reality. Imagine if you had handled your MiL in an apologetic instead of confrontational way. Remember, validation works in all relationships, not just with your W. "I am sorry you feel that way, I can understand why you'd feel like that." Validation diffuses situations. That should be your goal in dealing with your W. Your MiL. If you have fiery people at work. Listen. Validate.

We texted for about 20 mins after, as I was trying to understand why she wasn’t so cold and distant with me. She just said because she was. I feel it ‘s all because she was around her parents and I don’t know how to overcome that issue.

I know that this isn’t DB well, but in MC we are supposed to be working on coparenting, trust, respect, communication, and empathy. Therapy is her idea and she always asks me to go with her. Now, she agrees it’s more than coparenting and only says coparenting when she wants to argue.

CORRECTION: This isn't DBing poorly....it isn't DBing at all!!

STOP ENGAGING WITH HER SO MUCH. Shaking her hand? Really? Texting for 20 minutes?? You should be NOT texting her. When she texts DO NOT FEEL YOU NEED TO RESPOND. IF it is informational, don't text back. If it is a question, answer it in as few words as possible. Yes or no questions get yes or no answers. You are pushing her further and further away.

One more thing, I spoke to my lawyer yesterday. He told me that she asked for an extension to the discovery documents I sent her. He said he agreed to the extension, but her lawyer said he needed to get my discovery documents out soon. I feel that’s another positive sign she doesn’t want our marriage to end, but I don’t know anymore.

Trying to assign intent to any of her words or actions is a fool's game, Hrt. Likely she doesn't even know what she wants....how could you possibly know what she wants?!?

When she wants to R you will know. When she doesn't, you will be confused.

Im trying to stay positive. I’m GALing like a madman. I’m living my own life. I am trying my best to be so patient. I’m just to my breaking point.

Is 6 months a long time to be patient? Are these ups and downs normal? Why do they happen? When is enough enough?!?

Answers in order.

No.
Yes.
Because she has no idea what she wants right now.
When YOU say it is. However, when you decide enough is enough, you don't talk to her. You stop MC. You have her served with D papers. How do you know when enough is enough? When you can do what I just said you need to do.

[SteveLW]

Oh and stop gauging your day on how she reacts and responds! YOu are so far from detached it isn't funny. When you can have a good day even when she's difficult. Or even when her mother comes to practice. Then you will be on the right track.

[HrtHsbnd]

Thank you Steve! I definitely needed the 2x4’s.

I wanted to explain a couple of things more.

She served me papers back in May, so we are in the divorce process. I wasn’t trying to get empathy, I really just wanted to understand why she felt that shaking hands was weird to her so I could learn from that situation. I was listening and validating her mother. I didn’t react negatively to anything she said or did. I responded with I’m sorry you feel that way or you have every right to feel that way. She just got more upset and then stormed off.

As far as detaching, I’m obviously not there yet. But how do I totally detach and go dark when we’re supposed to be working on communication? Are you saying that I need to give her what she is giving me with her communication?

Even though I like to believe I’m a pro at this because of how long we’ve been doing it, I know I’m really not and we haven’t been doing it a long time I guess.

[HrtHsbnd]

I have days like that now, I would say it’s probably 50/50. I still just have a big problem with loving detachment.

I don’t know how to be nice, but yet be short and get off. She is so sensitive that she will feel as though I’m being rude.

Oh and stop gauging your day on how she reacts and responds! YOu are so far from detached it isn't funny. When you can have a good day even when she's difficult. Or even when her mother comes to practice. Then you will be on the right track.

[HrtHsbnd]

Job,

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it!

She is the one who continues to initiate MC. She even pays for it. We haven’t been given any homework assignments to do yet, unless it’s to keep conversations about our son.

I don’t realize that I am putting pressure on her. I just want this to end! I’m assuming there really isn’t anything I can do to show her that I don’t want the old relationship with her, I want a new one. I really don’t want to put pressure on her and I am trying to give her space and time. I don’t think I’ve asked her to make up her mind or given her a timeline or anything like that. I’ve just asked her to agree to be open to working on it and let me do the heavy lifting. I can now see how that can be pressure just by typing it.

I will just leave her alone and give her even more space, but what does that look like? We already sit really talk except during webchat. She usually tries to talk to me. When she does, do I just say sweetly that this is my time with our son? Do I just get off the phone?

I am surprised that she is attending MC w/you. Generally, they don't go or they go a couple of times and then tune out whatever is said or even doing the homework assignments that are provided during the session.

You may not realize it, but you are putting pressure on her to return to the relationship. She is not ready to do so and yes, there are going to be plenty of ups and downs for many, many months. Why? Because she is confused and really isn't sure she wants the old relationship w/you. Right now, to her, you are an authority figure (maybe like a parent).

You need to step back and give her plenty of space and time. Maybe it's time you visited the MC by yourself for a bit and talk out what is going on w/you and how to handle your situation. We recommend space and time here and not to put pressure on them. Six months isn't a long time for them to work through their issues. We have people all over the forums that have been detaching and being patient for many years and, in some cases, it has worked out.

Let me explain to what happened w/the hot and cold behavior. After the conversation you had w/her the other day, she warmed up just a bit and she began to feel those warm and fuzzy feelings again for you. However, later, she realized that she was getting close again w/you and that right now, in her mind, you are the enemy. All she knows is that she's not happy and that you and the relationship may be the reason she's not happy...so, back to being cold towards you.

Step back, give her space and time. You will need to treat her like a skittish colt and allow her to come to you and no more relationship discussions or discussions about divorce for now. Keep the focus on you and your family. Dig deeper for patience because it is going to take a lot of patience to get through this.

I suggest that you read Sandi2's 37 Rules #2. They are well written and to the point. Here's the link to her thread:

Sandi2's 37 Rules #2

I would also suggest that you read the Detachment Thread to have a better understanding of what detachment looks like. That link was posted in the homework welcome thread of Cadet's. If you can't locate it, please let us know and we will be happy to provide that link to you as well.

[SteveLW]

Thank you Steve! I definitely needed the 2x4’s.

I wanted to explain a couple of things more.

She served me papers back in May, so we are in the divorce process. I wasn’t trying to get empathy, I really just wanted to understand why she felt that shaking hands was weird to her so I could learn from that situation. I was listening and validating her mother. I didn’t react negatively to anything she said or did. I responded with I’m sorry you feel that way or you have every right to feel that way. She just got more upset and then stormed off.

As far as detaching, I’m obviously not there yet. But how do I totally detach and go dark when we’re supposed to be working on communication? Are you saying that I need to give her what she is giving me with her communication?

Even though I like to believe I’m a pro at this because of how long we’ve been doing it, I know I’m really not and we haven’t been doing it a long time I guess.

Saying "This isn't the time and place to get angry" is not listening and validating. And even if validation makes your MiL angry, likely anything would at that point!

Detachment is a state of understanding that YOU are responsible for your own fulfillment and happiness. You claim to be knocking GAL out of the park but if you are struggling with that then I would question if that is true.

Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

Detachment is not the same as going dark. Going dark is not what I am advocating. Going dark would be ending MC. Look up "self-differentiation". It is another way of saying loving detachment.

I am saying what I said above:
Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

[LH19]

H,

Now I remember, your W has filed for D and now you're in MC. Do you not find that odd?

What were you trying to achieve with the handshake?

You never answered me. Are you a control freak?

How job explained it to you is pure gold.

[HrtHsbnd]

Thanks Steve! That makes perfect sense.

I thought by saying that, I wasn’t trying to end what could’ve been an argument. What could I have said to listen and validate better?

I just searched for self differentiation. I feel like I’m understanding loving detachment more.

Communicating about our marriage in MC is all I can do at this point. While I want to work on our marriage, I’m just tired of fighting for it.

Thank you Steve! I definitely needed the 2x4’s.

I wanted to explain a couple of things more.

She served me papers back in May, so we are in the divorce process. I wasn’t trying to get empathy, I really just wanted to understand why she felt that shaking hands was weird to her so I could learn from that situation. I was listening and validating her mother. I didn’t react negatively to anything she said or did. I responded with I’m sorry you feel that way or you have every right to feel that way. She just got more upset and then stormed off.

As far as detaching, I’m obviously not there yet. But how do I totally detach and go dark when we’re supposed to be working on communication? Are you saying that I need to give her what she is giving me with her communication?

Even though I like to believe I’m a pro at this because of how long we’ve been doing it, I know I’m really not and we haven’t been doing it a long time I guess.

Saying "This isn't the time and place to get angry" is not listening and validating. And even if validation makes your MiL angry, likely anything would at that point!

Detachment is a state of understanding that YOU are responsible for your own fulfillment and happiness. You claim to be knocking GAL out of the park but if you are struggling with that then I would question if that is true.

Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

Detachment is not the same as going dark. Going dark is not what I am advocating. Going dark would be ending MC. Look up "self-differentiation". It is another way of saying loving detachment.

I am saying what I said above:
Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

[HrtHsbnd]

LH,

I find that very odd, but this whole situation has been odd. I don’t see how we can be going through a divorce and work on our marriage. However, I feel my wife has been very immature throughout this entire process and I don’t truly think she understands what the outcome means. I also don’t think she really knows what she is doing. I truly don’t based on her actions. She has been spoiled and is always used to getting her way.

She wants to treat this like a business, so in business I shake hands. I was just trying to give her what she’s giving me. What should I have done?

Sorry, I missed your question. I do have a tendency to want to be in control, but I’ve really worked on that during this situation. I feel I’m in a much better place. In fact, I’ve basically let her have the control so she can’t accuse me of being in control.

Yes. I have read his post several times. You guys are so amazing and I truly love getting your input. I am trying to follow all the advice here and do what I think I’m supposed to do in MC.

H,

Now I remember, your W has filed for D and now you're in MC. Do you not find that odd?

What were you trying to achieve with the handshake?

You never answered me. Are you a control freak?

How job explained it to you is pure gold.

[HrtHsbnd]

I also have another question.

She keeps telling me she doesn’t trust me. I’ve never cheated on her and I’ve never given her a reason to betray her trust. This all started because I was upset with her for 8 months about a house we both tried to get. We are real estate agents.

Why does she say she can’t trust me?

[Ready2Change]

I feel like I haven’t been getting any responses lately and I really need some help!

I saw you ask for LH to come help. I am not following your sitch. Could you give me the elevator pitch? Update your signature as well?

[SteveLW]

Thanks Steve! That makes perfect sense.

I thought by saying that, I wasn’t trying to end what could’ve been an argument. What could I have said to listen and validate better?

I just searched for self differentiation. I feel like I’m understanding loving detachment more.

Communicating about our marriage in MC is all I can do at this point. While I want to work on our marriage, I’m just tired of fighting for it.

Thank you Steve! I definitely needed the 2x4’s.

I wanted to explain a couple of things more.

She served me papers back in May, so we are in the divorce process. I wasn’t trying to get empathy, I really just wanted to understand why she felt that shaking hands was weird to her so I could learn from that situation. I was listening and validating her mother. I didn’t react negatively to anything she said or did. I responded with I’m sorry you feel that way or you have every right to feel that way. She just got more upset and then stormed off.

As far as detaching, I’m obviously not there yet. But how do I totally detach and go dark when we’re supposed to be working on communication? Are you saying that I need to give her what she is giving me with her communication?

Even though I like to believe I’m a pro at this because of how long we’ve been doing it, I know I’m really not and we haven’t been doing it a long time I guess.

Saying "This isn't the time and place to get angry" is not listening and validating. And even if validation makes your MiL angry, likely anything would at that point!

Detachment is a state of understanding that YOU are responsible for your own fulfillment and happiness. You claim to be knocking GAL out of the park but if you are struggling with that then I would question if that is true.

Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

Detachment is not the same as going dark. Going dark is not what I am advocating. Going dark would be ending MC. Look up "self-differentiation". It is another way of saying loving detachment.

I am saying what I said above:
Communicate in MC. Outside of MC stick to logistics and listening and validating.

How about: "I hear what you are saying and I understand that you feel I have burned my bridges. For that I am very sorry."

Again, be conciliatory. Be apologetic. Be understanding. To a fault.

[SteveLW]

I also have another question.

She keeps telling me she doesn’t trust me. I’ve never cheated on her and I’ve never given her a reason to betray her trust. This all started because I was upset with her for 8 months about a house we both tried to get. We are real estate agents.

Why does she say she can’t trust me?

Have you ever lied to her? Spied on her? Snooped on her? Told people things behind her back? Did you ever not doing something she trusted you would do?

Trust is more than cheating. Being upset with her for 8 months, essentially holding a grudge against her, is betrayal. Again, even if you've been perfect, empathize with her. Her perception is HER reality.

[LH19]

Trust could mean she doesn’t trust your changes.

I guess I don’t understand why there has to be physical contact at all.

Yeah I get from your posts you’re a control freak so you may want to double down on your efforts to drop the rope and focus on yourself.

[neffer]

Listen, listen, learn HH.

Stop that pressure please! Time and space.

Patience.

[AnotherStander]

Our son started practice today, so this was the first time we’ve had to be together in public to work on coparenting. I felt it was awkward. As usual, she brought her mother. This was also the first time I’d seen her mother in months. I spoke to her mother and tried to be nice, but got yelled at a couple of times.

Next time sit somewhere else or go stand by the rail and watch.

I was also told that I would NEVER get back in her parents heart. I got the blame for everything again with her mother too. I took it because I’m trying to humble myself. I explained that this wasn’t the time or place to get angry at me. She agreed and walked off.

No R talks at kid functions, period! EVER! If she starts it or her mom or whoever, just say "I'm here to enjoy watching S and support him, let's discuss that another time." If they continue then go sit somewhere else (which you should be doing anyway).

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time. When practice was over, I took my son to her car where she was there. I told her it was nice to see her and I tried to shake her hand.

You tried to SHAKE HER HAND??? Are you buying a used car from her? Don't do that, she is right that is really weird.

We texted for about 20 mins after, as I was trying to understand why she wasn’t so cold and distant with me. She just said because she was. I feel it ‘s all because she was around her parents and I don’t know how to overcome that issue.

She's a WAS, it's what they do. She's trying to build distance between the two of you and you need to respect that and give it to her.

Im trying to stay positive. I’m GALing like a madman. I’m living my own life. I am trying my best to be so patient. I’m just to my breaking point.

If you're really GALing and living your own life, then you don't need to be patient and you don't have a "breaking point", right? Think about this. These comments don't go together! When you drop the rope and detach, then you're positive no matter what is going on with your W. You are happy. You don't need patience because you're not waiting, you're done waiting and you've moved on. There is no "breaking point" when you get here.

Is 6 months a long time to be patient?

In DBing terms 6 months isn't much. I know it seems like forever to you but it's not. It takes a good year to 18 months to well and truly detach for most people. And it can take longer than that for a WAS to come out of the fog.

Are these ups and downs normal? Why do they happen?

Yes they are normal. Why is hard to explain because the "why" is in her head. There's a storm raging in there and she is confused and in turmoil even if she doesn't act like it outwardly. Her actions and words will flip around and defy logic. It's why we call it the "roller coaster". Your goal is to get off of it and let her ride it alone. She goes up and down and round and round while you stand tall on firm ground.

When is enough enough?!?

You'll eventually reach a zen state where you realize life isn't about her or your M, it transcends that. And you'll start making choices based on what is best for you and your children rather than out of blind loyalty to a marriage that is already dead. Ironically it's not until you get to that point that she might look back at what she's missing.

[HrtHsbnd]

Thanks R2C!

I got upset because we wanted the same house listing, we are real estate agents. I feelt she did something very dirty to get it over me and got angry for several months with her.

Basically, BD in March and moved out later that month. W and MIL looked for an apartment for me for a week. She had a lawyer draft up a simple separation to make it look official. W gave me the ILYBNILWY speech. She was very distant, guarded her phone, etc. Kept becoming more distant. She wouldn’t let me see my son on his birthday until I signed something from her attorney, which I wouldn’t do. I decided to go get my own attorney.

I went to my lawyer and was told to go home, so I drilled the door locks out and came back in. I found her entire family living in our home. It was horrible! My FIL decided to call a ‘family’ meeting a week into us living together. He told me to get out or I would be sorry. So they decided to take my son away. Luckily, there was a tracker on her car so I knew where they were with him.

I was served divorce papers the next week. Her parents want to be in control of our family.

She decided she wanted to take our son to a psychologist who is really great. He also does MC, too. The doctor said our son was fine, but he wanted to see us. He said he feels we should make it. She’s denied any type of affair and everyone believes her, including the doctor.

The rest is basically in this thread. I’m just at my breaking point with all of it. Her parents are just not going to let her stay with me. I feel she is very immature and irresponsible, as she has never had to face any consequences because her parents always fix it for her.

I feel like I haven’t been getting any responses lately and I really need some help!

I saw you ask for LH to come help. I am not following your sitch. Could you give me the elevator pitch? Update your signature as well?

[HrtHsbnd]

She feels that I have, but I really haven’t. Because I have had so many people people wanting control in our home, I’ve had to be diplomatic about what I say or do and so she feels that I’ve lied to her.

I don’t snoop on her or spy on her because we’re not living together. I did put a tracker on her car. I told a few people I thought there was an affair when this started, but haven’t said anything since. I know I hurt her emotionally, so that might be why.

Her perception is her reality, so I’m trying to validate her feelings. My biggest issue is her parents. They hate me and don’t want me in her life anymore. They are very controlling and will stop at nothing to get what they want. She will take their side over anyone else.

I also have another question.

She keeps telling me she doesn’t trust me. I’ve never cheated on her and I’ve never given her a reason to betray her trust. This all started because I was upset with her for 8 months about a house we both tried to get. We are real estate agents.

Why does she say she can’t trust me?

Have you ever lied to her? Spied on her? Snooped on her? Told people things behind her back? Did you ever not doing something she trusted you would do?

Trust is more than cheating. Being upset with her for 8 months, essentially holding a grudge against her, is betrayal. Again, even if you've been perfect, empathize with her. Her perception is HER reality.

[HrtHsbnd]

So AS,

Do I need to stop going to MC?

While I am interested in saving the marriage, she still can’t tell me that’s what she wants. I’m not interested in talking about coparenting, either.

[SteveLW]

Hey, MC with a partner that isn't committed to the Marv is usually a waste of time. If strongly urge you to really consider stopping MC.

Tell her:

"I've decided that MC isn't appropriate right now. However, I have issues I need to work through so I'm going to start IC instead."

This does 2 things. It sends the messages that you are into just going through the emotions. And that you are still working on yourself.

[HrtHsbnd]

I have been going to IC for about 9 months and long before this started. I enjoy it and have gotten a lot out of it. I also enjoy MC because the MC usually agrees with me because she’s so out there.

Does that change your advice?

Hey, MC with a partner that isn't committed to the Marv is usually a waste of time. If strongly urge you to really consider stopping MC.

Tell her:

"I've decided that MC isn't appropriate right now. However, I have issues I need to work through so I'm going to start IC instead."

This does 2 things. It sends the messages that you are into just going through the emotions. And that you are still working on yourself.

[HrtHsbnd]

Thanks AS. I always appreciate the advice!

I will start sitting away from them.

She just wants to talk about the relationship in therapy. I still don’t see how only talking about it for 4 hours a month will do any good. Would you explain that to me?

Why is shaking her hand weird? She is treating this like a business, so why not shake her hand ?

Why do WAS try to build distance between us? Don’t they think there’s enough? Why do you think she is doing it?

How do I show her that I’ve moved on? I know it’s easier if I already have and I feel like I’m almost there, but I’m not there yet. I’m about 50/50, but I’m at 95 ready to be done with all this stress.

Do WAS have a fog? I know WW do, but I didn’t think WAS did. So what you’re saying is definitely prepare for a divorce while she is in this fog and when she snaps out of it, revisit?

It’s hard to just watch her on this roller coaster and I did really good with it for awhile, but she sucked me in again by saying all the right things and doing some of them to make me stop pulling away. So now I’m pulling away again.

I don’t know if I’m at that state yet, but I doubt it. I am doing what I feel is best for our family but that’s always included her. I will need to start making choices very soon that will negatively affect our chances of reconciling. So I need to make those choices not for all 3 of us, but for my son and I regardless of it ruins any chance of reconciliation?

Also, any idea why she didn’t take her wedding ring back? I offered it to her at 3 different times to show her I’m done with her nonsense. She ran the first 2 times and got upset the third time. It was almost like she was scared I was serious.

Our son started practice today, so this was the first time we’ve had to be together in public to work on coparenting. I felt it was awkward. As usual, she brought her mother. This was also the first time I’d seen her mother in months. I spoke to her mother and tried to be nice, but got yelled at a couple of times.

Next time sit somewhere else or go stand by the rail and watch.

I was also told that I would NEVER get back in her parents heart. I got the blame for everything again with her mother too. I took it because I’m trying to humble myself. I explained that this wasn’t the time or place to get angry at me. She agreed and walked off.

No R talks at kid functions, period! EVER! If she starts it or her mom or whoever, just say "I'm here to enjoy watching S and support him, let's discuss that another time." If they continue then go sit somewhere else (which you should be doing anyway).

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time. When practice was over, I took my son to her car where she was there. I told her it was nice to see her and I tried to shake her hand.

You tried to SHAKE HER HAND??? Are you buying a used car from her? Don't do that, she is right that is really weird.

We texted for about 20 mins after, as I was trying to understand why she wasn’t so cold and distant with me. She just said because she was. I feel it ‘s all because she was around her parents and I don’t know how to overcome that issue.

She's a WAS, it's what they do. She's trying to build distance between the two of you and you need to respect that and give it to her.

Im trying to stay positive. I’m GALing like a madman. I’m living my own life. I am trying my best to be so patient. I’m just to my breaking point.

If you're really GALing and living your own life, then you don't need to be patient and you don't have a "breaking point", right? Think about this. These comments don't go together! When you drop the rope and detach, then you're positive no matter what is going on with your W. You are happy. You don't need patience because you're not waiting, you're done waiting and you've moved on. There is no "breaking point" when you get here.

Is 6 months a long time to be patient?

In DBing terms 6 months isn't much. I know it seems like forever to you but it's not. It takes a good year to 18 months to well and truly detach for most people. And it can take longer than that for a WAS to come out of the fog.

Are these ups and downs normal? Why do they happen?

Yes they are normal. Why is hard to explain because the "why" is in her head. There's a storm raging in there and she is confused and in turmoil even if she doesn't act like it outwardly. Her actions and words will flip around and defy logic. It's why we call it the "roller coaster". Your goal is to get off of it and let her ride it alone. She goes up and down and round and round while you stand tall on firm ground.

When is enough enough?!?

You'll eventually reach a zen state where you realize life isn't about her or your M, it transcends that. And you'll start making choices based on what is best for you and your children rather than out of blind loyalty to a marriage that is already dead. Ironically it's not until you get to that point that she might look back at what she's missing.

[HrtHsbnd]

During webchat last night, my son and I were out to dinner. She spoke to him for awhile and the had to go to dinner herself or so she says. She looked very nice though, still business like with me.

I just don’t understand why she wants to be like that with me and why she says she still doesn’t want to work on our marriage. I’m also wondering about the questions from my last post too.

I would appreciate any help!

[HrtHsbnd]

Also, is it healthy for the future of our marriage if we’ve both reached a point where we don’t want to talk to the other person?

[LH19]

H,

You can’t show her you’ve moved on you have to actually move on. She’s knows you haven’t moved on. They have a sixth sense.

[LH19]

I have no idea what you are asking in your last post.

[Traveler]

Hi HrtHsbnd,

It sounds like you're still wondering why we all say "What?!" when you describe your hand-shaking.

Why is shaking her hand weird? She is treating this like a business, so why not shake her hand?

Your wife and apparently many of us have an intuitive sense that offering a handshake in that social situation is unusual. For expert guidance on when to shake hands, see:
https://www.quora.com/When-should-you-shake-someones-hand

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time... I was just trying to give her what she's giving me.. She wants to treat this like a business.. What should I have done?

No physical contact would've been better. I see your point--that she was acting cold and distant. Maybe the handshake was a passive-aggressive way of expressing, "It's like this is just business and not personal"? Only you know what you were thinking, but if so, it's clever but better is not acting out.

She absolutely refused and walked off. When I asked her why she wouldn’t do that, she said because it was weird. I don’t know why that’s weird.

Offering a single handshake was a faux pas. A second error was not just accepting "No". You say she walked off.. and then you asked? Did you follow, call out, bring it up later? When someone says "No" to a physical contact, they shouldn't have to justify it. We are masters of and control our own bodies.

[Traveler]

Why do WAS try to build distance between us? Don’t they think there’s enough? Why do you think she is doing it?

When I walked away from my ex-wife, I built distance between us, so I could focus on MY life. I guess it's similar to the way DB'ing advocates lovingly detaching so you can focus on YOUR life. The difference (imho) was it was much easier to detach when I was the WAS and leaving had been on my mind over a year.

[HrtHsbnd]

You are so right about that. On the days where I don’t care about her mood, she gets upset and starts to pull closer to me and then I go right back in. I don’t know how to not let her do that to me anymore.

Also, what does moving on look like?

I know that sounds silly, but I GAL almost every day. I always travel on the weekends I don’t have my son and I’m always doing something throughout the week.

H,

You can’t show her you’ve moved on you have to actually move on. She’s knows you haven’t moved on. They have a sixth sense.

[HrtHsbnd]

LH,

I’m just asking if it’s healthy for our marriage if we’re at a place where neither of us want to talk to the other. Is that part of all of this to create better feelings for each other in the long run?

Basically, Will this be another step to make her miss me?

I have no idea what you are asking in your last post.

[HrtHsbnd]

Thanks CW! All good points.

I truly didn’t mean shaking her hand in a derogatory way. I thought we were doing things like business partners right now, so I wanted to treat it the way I felt she wasn’t treating it. I guess that was passive aggressive, but that wasn’t my intent.

I just don’t understand why she wouldn’t return the handshake and it made her feel weird.

I read your article and I’m in business. I shake a lot of people’s hands and I feel like I know when and when not to do it. I just don’t know why that situation wasn’t one where I should’ve done it. I’m just trying to protect myself emotionally and if she’s treating me like a stranger, why not do the same with her?

Hi HrtHsbnd,

It sounds like you're still wondering why we all say "What?!" when you describe your hand-shaking.

Why is shaking her hand weird? She is treating this like a business, so why not shake her hand?

Your wife and apparently many of us have an intuitive sense that offering a handshake in that social situation is unusual. For expert guidance on when to shake hands, see:
https://www.quora.com/When-should-you-shake-someones-hand

My wife was cold and distant with me the entire time... I was just trying to give her what she's giving me.. She wants to treat this like a business.. What should I have done?

No physical contact would've been better. I see your point--that she was acting cold and distant. Maybe the handshake was a passive-aggressive way of expressing, "It's like this is just business and not personal"? Only you know what you were thinking, but if so, it's clever but better is not acting out.

She absolutely refused and walked off. When I asked her why she wouldn’t do that, she said because it was weird. I don’t know why that’s weird.

Offering a single handshake was a faux pas. A second error was not just accepting "No". You say she walked off.. and then you asked? Did you follow, call out, bring it up later? When someone says "No" to a physical contact, they shouldn't have to justify it. We are masters of and control our own bodies.

[LH19]

H,

No obviously that’s not good for the marriage for not wanting to talk to one another.

Your situation is sort of bizarre because she filed for D then you guys decided to go to MC. Obviously she knows you’re not moving on because your in MC with her.

You guys seem to talk everyday so I can’t see how it’s possible for her to miss you.

[HrtHsbnd]

I’m sorry, but I don’t understand what you’re saying. Maybe I’m overthinking it.

Why does my wife want to build distance between us when there’s already enough?

If there isn’t enough for her, what I’m hearing you say is that it’s because she wants to build her own life without me?

I am trying to build my life around myself and my son, but still keeping her part of it as my wife, too. Are you saying you don’t think she’s doing that?

Of course it was easier for her because she’s the one that walked away. But she still says she doesn’t know what she wants. Her parents are only getting more upset with me, so I’m sure that may make up her mind soon.

Why do WAS try to build distance between us? Don’t they think there’s enough? Why do you think she is doing it?

When I walked away from my ex-wife, I built distance between us, so I could focus on MY life. I guess it's similar to the way DB'ing advocates lovingly detaching so you can focus on YOUR life. The difference (imho) was it was much easier to detach when I was the WAS and leaving had been on my mind over a year.

[LH19]

Dude trying to shake her hand was weird. Let it go and don’t do it again.

[HrtHsbnd]

I feel my situation is very different because of the parent involvement. I see what you’re saying about talking every day, but it’s just because of our son.

Would you care to tell me what your thoughts are and how I could’ve handled this better?

She decided that if she didn’t want to talk to me on webchat she could just walk away, even when I’m not trying to talk to her. So, I decided to do the same to honor her wishes.

Last night, she got on webchat with our son. We were busy playing soccer in the backyard and he didn’t really want to talk to her. I let her see him, not me. He must’ve moved out of her sight because she demanded to see him. I gave her a look like calm down you just needed to let me know. She snapped at me rudely and I told her that I didn’t appreciate the attitude. I would hang up if she didn’t stop . She just started crying and cried until the end of the call. Lack of respect has been a big issue with her lately.

At that point I would’ve usually asked why she was so upset or even sent her a text, but I didn’t. She would normally send me a derogatory text, but she didn’t either.

I wasn’t rude in the least or passive aggressive. I will just not tolerate disrespect anymore.

Ohh and I’ll not shake her hand anymore!

H,

No obviously that’s not good for the marriage for not wanting to talk to one another.

Your situation is sort of bizarre because she filed for D then you guys decided to go to MC. Obviously she knows you’re not moving on because your in MC with her.

You guys seem to talk everyday so I can’t see how it’s possible for her to miss you.

[LH19]

It would help if you had a signature. How old is your son? Do you think it’s feasible to think you are going to web chat everyday even when your D’d. Your not the first person to have meddling parents involved and I’m quite sure you won’t be the last.

[HrtHsbnd]

I’ll add a signature now.

My son is just 4. These parents are extremely meddling. They are in every part of our lives and I feel they don’t seem to think they do anything wrong. They also have the resources to feel that way, which is another reason I feel my W won’t make them leave. They’ve moved into our home and taken over.

That’s the only reason I’m glad to not be there right now.

It would help if you had a signature. How old is your son? Do you think it’s feasible to think you are going to web chat everyday even when your D’d. Your not the first person to have meddling parents involved and I’m quite sure you won’t be the last.

[AnotherStander]

She just wants to talk about the relationship in therapy. I still don’t see how only talking about it for 4 hours a month will do any good. Would you explain that to me?

She's not interested in an R with you right now. She would prefer that she not even have to coparent with you, but she doesn't have a choice there. So talking about it 4 hours a month, or 4 minutes, or even 4 seconds is TOO MUCH. She's done. You've got to wrap your head around that- she's done, done, done. That can change in the future but for now that's where she is.

Why is shaking her hand weird? She is treating this like a business, so why not shake her hand ?

You really don't understand why that's weird? Basically this is a person you've been married to and intimate with, how do you go from that to shaking hands? (Hint- you don't)

Why do WAS try to build distance between us? Don’t they think there’s enough? Why do you think she is doing it?

I know this is tough to understand and may hurt to hear, but she really does not like you right now. She may even hate you. She is more than likely very repulsed by the sight of you. You don't understand it because you still remember the happy marriage you thought the two of you shared, so you keep fishing around looking for your old wife inside there somewhere. Sometimes you might even get a glimpse of her, which just further confuses you because you think if you only say or do the right thing the old her will step forward and push aside this "interloper". But what you're dealing with is beyond your understanding. She has fundamentally changed, she is no longer who you knew. You keep trying to apply the old rules to this new person but that doesn't work. This new person doesn't like you, doesn't want to be married to you, doesn't want to touch you, doesn't want to talk to you, doesn't want to be in the same country with you. So what do you do? You move on. You accept this "new" her and you leave her alone and go about building a new life without her. I am not saying give up on your M, but you have to accept that for now, the M is done and over with. So you work on you, and with time you might be able to build a new R and M with her. But that's way down the road.

I will need to start making choices very soon that will negatively affect our chances of reconciling. So I need to make those choices not for all 3 of us, but for my son and I regardless of it ruins any chance of reconciliation?

Can you give an example of that? What do you think you need to do that will hurt future recon? Because you are probably wrong. The BEST thing you can do for a future recon are the things your brain is telling you not to do. Detach. GAL. Leave her alone. Work on you. She wants to leave you hold the door open. She wants to hang out you say "no thanks".

Also, any idea why she didn’t take her wedding ring back? I offered it to her at 3 different times to show her I’m done with her nonsense.

Quit worrying about all these little things, they don't matter. The very fact that you are asking questions like this shows how attached you still are. When you say "her" wedding ring, do you mean the one she gave you or the one you gave her? If it's the one she gave you then it's your property, not hers. Quit trying to give it back, just put it away somewhere. If it's the one you gave her then count yourself lucky she doesn't want it (because legally it's her property, at least in the US). Put it away.

[Traveler]

Last night, she got on webchat with our son. We were busy playing soccer in the backyard and he didn’t really want to talk to her. I let her see him, not me. He must’ve moved out of her sight because she demanded to see him. I gave her a look like calm down you just needed to let me know. She snapped at me rudely and I told her that I didn’t appreciate the attitude. I would hang up if she didn’t stop . She just started crying and cried until the end of the call. Lack of respect has been a big issue with her lately.

The messy part about your threat to hang up is it doesn't just end her interacting with you--which is totally reasonable--but also her interacting with her son--which is less reasonable. I don't think you want gunpoint respect where she's afraid you'll otherwise impede access to her son. That could make her despise you, and besides it's a stick she can easily remove when she formalizes the separation and custody order. '

I have a friend whose custody plan includes webchats. They did this while their daughter was 6-14. It's his responsibility to ensure their daughter is in front of the Webcam when he has physical custody, and vice-versa. The parents rarely talk during Webchats. Maybe clearer boundaries could ease tensions here.

She just started crying and cried until the end of the call. At that point I would’ve usually asked why she was so upset or even sent her a text, but I didn’t. She would normally send me a derogatory text, but she didn’t either.

Seeing her crying must have been hard? I know I'm distressed whenever my partner cries, and made some of my bigger goofs when I saw her cry. I agree with AS's responses about why she wants more space, and his question about what you plan to do that would make reconciliation less likely is an interesting one.

[IronWill]

Give her time and space.

If you want to maybe have a chance at a new MR with your W (not the old one - which has been gone for a while now), i recommend backing off. Way off. All of it is pressure to her right now.

Learn to be patient.

Very very patient.

It's been a year-plus for me. You can do it too.

Focus on you and your kids.

Stay strong, man!

[Ready2Change]

I feel my situation is very different because of the parent involvement.

I most likely have you beat in the "Too involved grandparents department".


It doesn't matter.


The only thing that matters is making positive changes to you, for you and your son.


Focus on your personal growth.

Read this post and all the threads it links to:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984



Challenge all your current beliefs. Make changes to the way you interact with people.



Learn new behaviors that are attractive. Drop the behaviors that are not attractive.

[kas99]

How do I show her that I’ve moved on? I know it’s easier if I already have and I feel like I’m almost there, but I’m not there yet.

You can't show her you've moved on because you haven't. I read a website that discussed the timeline of a LBS's recovery from a breakup. At 6 months you're in the roller coaster of emotions phase which is about halfway through the grief process which is good news. I've been separated 5.5 months so this is where I am too. I hear we should both be feeling a lot better in another 6 months.

If you ultimately reconcile it will not be now. Almost every story I've read and I've read hundreds of them the WAS does not come back until the LBS moves on. Stinks right? This one guy his wife left, divorced him then 16 months later wanted to reconcile. He told her no. This other guy same thing his wife left, they sold the house, divorced and about 18 months after he'd moved on she wanted to reconcile. He was tempted but ultimately said no. Talked to this one guy in real life his wife left him for another man and yep she came back. He also told her no. I swear these WAS's have a 6th sense.

[DejaVu6]

What KAS said... she won’t think you have moved on until you actually have. As all have said...stop focusing on what she is doing and focus on yourself... GAL, 180s and dropping the rope. She has left you HH. It took a lot for her to do that. The hard part for her is over so she is not going to come back easily...if at all. The sooner you realize this and accept it, the better it will be for both of you. Let her go to MAYBE get her back and to DEFINITELY get you back. (((HUGS)))

[HrtHsbnd]

Thanks to both of you ladies!

But what does moving on in this situation look like? Dating other people?

[IHCLACS]

How do I show her that I’ve moved on? I know it’s easier if I already have and I feel like I’m almost there, but I’m not there yet.

You can't show her you've moved on because you haven't. I read a website that discussed the timeline of a LBS's recovery from a breakup. At 6 months you're in the roller coaster of emotions phase which is about halfway through the grief process which is good news. I've been separated 5.5 months so this is where I am too. I hear we should both be feeling a lot better in another 6 months.

If you ultimately reconcile it will not be now. Almost every story I've read and I've read hundreds of them the WAS does not come back until the LBS moves on. Stinks right? This one guy his wife left, divorced him then 16 months later wanted to reconcile. He told her no. This other guy same thing his wife left, they sold the house, divorced and about 18 months after he'd moved on she wanted to reconcile. He was tempted but ultimately said no. Talked to this one guy in real life his wife left him for another man and yep she came back. He also told her no. I swear these WAS's have a 6th sense.

Ending of the movie Swingers sums up this phenomenon nicely. They all want to test the waters in another/life/place/relationship. I'm leaving my home and splitting the equity and I'm out. I love her still, and vacilate weekly between being silently angry, and forgiving in the same instance, but sorry, once I'm out. As a matter of principle. I'm out. Im willing to lose her forever. Nothing lost, nothing gained. I think a lot of LBH realize that if there is no open line of communications other than for the sake of the kids, once the WAW takes the reigns and control of their new life, once they realize the grass wasn't greener, (if they ever do.) Then the only reason why they are returning is because they thought they could do better than you, and realized they didnt. Don't mean to sow the seeds of doubt. I want everyone's M to R here. But my perception is if they can leave, buy you out, sell you out, liquidate your assets, mistrust you, argue with you, turn cold on you, blame you, shame you, fool you for years about there honesty and feelings, who's to say they can't do it again? I know its prideful to think that way...But at some point you have to take your self respect back and move on with your life.

[kas99]

nvm responded to the wrong post

[kas99]

Thanks to both of you ladies!

But what does moving on in this situation look like? Dating other people?

Moving on (to me) is that moment where you are playing with your kid and you forget. It's that moment when you sit alone in your living room and feel peace. In the beginning you have no moments like these. You can't eat, you drop 40 pounds, can't sleep, you think your life is over. Then you start to have moments. Fleeting but they are there. I haven't moved on but I believe that there will be a day when these moments will turn into hours, which turns into days, years until I look back and realize that I survived this. That I am stronger because of it. That I used this as an opportunity to grow and I will be proud. Today is not that day but it is coming I have to believe that.

On dating. I started talking to a guy I met online not long after WAH left. We talked/texted all day everyday nonstop. I could text him at any time and he'd reply. We'd stay up until 3am talking on the phone. He called me "baby" and was protective of me. He was making plans to visit me when I realized I was in way over my head. I was about to do something really stupid but thankfully he ended it saying I wasn't ready for a relationship (duh).

.......and then I crashed. Now I'm missing not one but TWO men. I made the mistake of not blocking him and 2 weeks later he came back. Ugh. We picked up right where we left off and a week later he started pulling away again. Seriously? Talked to him on the phone for 2 hours then I went home and blocked him. Took me another week to pull out of it. Its been a couple of months and I still miss him. Sound like fun?

Moral of my story is dating isn't moving on its a drug, a distraction, an avoidance technique, and a whole bunch of drama that totally isn't worth it. Don't be me.

[SteveLW]

I feel my situation is very different because of the parent involvement.

I most likely have you beat in the "Too involved grandparents department".


It doesn't matter.


The only thing that matters is making positive changes to you, for you and your son.


Focus on your personal growth.

Read this post and all the threads it links to:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984



Challenge all your current beliefs. Make changes to the way you interact with people.



Learn new behaviors that are attractive. Drop the behaviors that are not attractive.

R2C, is dead on. Hrt, we all try to find loopholes and reasons why our sitches are unique or different. The fact of the matter is that her parents are no different then an OM. We've seen this on these forums before. Whether it is a group of divorcees, a BFF, an Other Person, the parents, the grandparents, a sibling, etc. Here is the deal: You have no control over HER or HER parents. That is why we say focus on you. It isn't just because that is where your focus SHOULD BE, it is also because there really is no other place for your focus TO BE.

When you eliminate everyone that you can't control, the only person left is the one person you can control. Yourself.

[HrtHsbnd]

So last night on webchat I tried to be cordial and talk, it’s what I’ve always done because it’s who I am. She feels if I don’t do this then I’m just mad at her, which is what I don’t want her to feel.

Anyway, that goes about as good as it can go. Then I get a text from her that says I was very rude towards her last night and this past weekend. I was just doing what she was doing to me, such as leaving the room while they spoke as I wanted to make sure I didn’t cross any boundaries or upset her. Then she says that she wants to only talk about our son, which is what I do because that’s a healthy boundary where she’s not uncomfortable. She said she doesn’t want our conversations to be hostile, which again I am agreeing with whatever she says or listening and validating.

My response was that I’m sorry she felt that way about this weekend and that I thought I went out of my way to let her webchat with him, while honoring her wishes. I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

She never responded. But again, I’m trying to just listen and validate.

[HrtHsbnd]

Steve,

That makes sense, but how do I handle her parents? Is that the same as having OM?

I am trying to control myself and I feel like I’ve been doing a really good job, especially considering where I wasn’t before all of this happened. I know I can’t control the situation and I really don’t want too. But I would like to know what I can do to continue to control how I respond to it with the parental involvement.

Her parental involvement is bad.

I feel my situation is very different because of the parent involvement.

I most likely have you beat in the "Too involved grandparents department".


It doesn't matter.


The only thing that matters is making positive changes to you, for you and your son.


Focus on your personal growth.

Read this post and all the threads it links to:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984



Challenge all your current beliefs. Make changes to the way you interact with people.



Learn new behaviors that are attractive. Drop the behaviors that are not attractive.

R2C, is dead on. Hrt, we all try to find loopholes and reasons why our sitches are unique or different. The fact of the matter is that her parents are no different then an OM. We've seen this on these forums before. Whether it is a group of divorcees, a BFF, an Other Person, the parents, the grandparents, a sibling, etc. Here is the deal: You have no control over HER or HER parents. That is why we say focus on you. It isn't just because that is where your focus SHOULD BE, it is also because there really is no other place for your focus TO BE.

When you eliminate everyone that you can't control, the only person left is the one person you can control. Yourself.

[Traveler]

(She) says I was very rude towards her last night and this past weekend.

My response was that I’m sorry she felt that way about this weekend and that I thought I went out of my way to let her webchat with him, while honoring her wishes. I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

She never responded. But again, I’m trying to just listen and validate.e

In your responses, I see you being polite and agreeable. I see some validation. "I'm sorry you felt that way" is a validating, sympathetic way to start. The next words, though, take a defensive 180: "I thought I went out of my way.. " It's tempting to defend our viewpoint, but if you really want to validate her, it helps to understand her viewpoint. A couple stock responses I like for your situation from the Validation Cheat Sheet on this website: "Gosh, I didn't realize you felt I was being rude.", "I could tell you were really upset last night." It can be really hard listening to why someone is upset with your behavior but--as long as she's not yelling, cursing, etc.--those talks are important. I hope this weekend is a better one for you.

[Ready2Change]

I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

Less words is almost always better.

[MLCxH]

So last night on webchat I tried to be cordial and talk, it’s what I’ve always done because it’s who I am. She feels if I don’t do this then I’m just mad at her, which is what I don’t want her to feel.

You are being a "nice guy" here. Not saying you should not be cordial but why are you giving so much importance to what she feels?

My response was that I’m sorry she felt that way about this weekend .

Do you realize how weird it is that you are saying sorry for her feelings? You are not apologizing for any specific things you did wrong but you are apologizing because she feels bad and her feelings are controlled by her and not you.

I thought I went out of my way to let her webchat with him, while honoring her wishes. I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

"Honoring her wishes"? Do you believe talking to her this way will make her respect you?

She never responded

Are you surprised?

But again, I’m trying to just listen and validate.

Do you really believe that? I see a lot of apologizing and NGS trying to please her.


Sorry for the 2x4s

[SteveLW]

Steve,

That makes sense, but how do I handle her parents? Is that the same as having OM?

I am trying to control myself and I feel like I’ve been doing a really good job, especially considering where I wasn’t before all of this happened. I know I can’t control the situation and I really don’t want too. But I would like to know what I can do to continue to control how I respond to it with the parental involvement.

Her parental involvement is bad.

I feel my situation is very different because of the parent involvement.

I most likely have you beat in the "Too involved grandparents department".


It doesn't matter.


The only thing that matters is making positive changes to you, for you and your son.


Focus on your personal growth.

Read this post and all the threads it links to:
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984



Challenge all your current beliefs. Make changes to the way you interact with people.



Learn new behaviors that are attractive. Drop the behaviors that are not attractive.

R2C, is dead on. Hrt, we all try to find loopholes and reasons why our sitches are unique or different. The fact of the matter is that her parents are no different then an OM. We've seen this on these forums before. Whether it is a group of divorcees, a BFF, an Other Person, the parents, the grandparents, a sibling, etc. Here is the deal: You have no control over HER or HER parents. That is why we say focus on you. It isn't just because that is where your focus SHOULD BE, it is also because there really is no other place for your focus TO BE.

When you eliminate everyone that you can't control, the only person left is the one person you can control. Yourself.

You've described her parents of not liking you and wanting her to be away from you. Hmmmm, sounds like what an OM's position would be, doesn't it?

How do you handle her parents? You don't. They are not your problem. Your W is. Just like if she had an OM. Engage with them as little as possible. When you do engage, keep it to logistics about the kids, if those logistics are necessary. You know they don't like you. And you know the best way to make someone that doesn't like you to start liking you? Act like you don't care. It is amazing how DBing tactics work across all relationship. DB your in-laws too!

[HrtHsbnd]

Good point Steve. I’ve always felt that if I handle her then her parents will follow, even though they are extremely over bearing.

Steve,

That makes sense, but how do I handle her parents? Is that the same as having OM?

I am trying to control myself and I feel like I’ve been doing a really good job, especially considering where I wasn’t before all of this

You've described her parents of not liking you and wanting her to be away from you. Hmmmm, sounds like what an OM's position would be, doesn't it?

How do you handle her parents? You don't. They are not your problem. Your W is. Just like if she had an OM. Engage with them as little as possible. When you do engage, keep it to logistics about the kids, if those logistics are necessary. You know they don't like you. And you know the best way to make someone that doesn't like you to start liking you? Act like you don't care. It is amazing how DBing tactics work across all relationship. DB your in-laws too!

[HrtHsbnd]

MLC, I appreciate the 2x4’s! But I feel like I’m doing everything I know to handle the situation in the best way.

I am giving importance to how she feels because my purpose is to win her back. I lost her because I didn’t care about her feelings for months, so I’m trying to do a 180 on that.

As far as saying I’m sorry, I can see how she could take that as apologizing for her feelings, but I feel like I was really just validating her feelings. How would you handle that?

I don’t really know what I can do at this point to get her respect back. I have done everything I know to work on our marriage, except let it go.

Yes I am surprised. This is still so new for me knowing the relationship we’ve always had since the first day we met. I understand her being hurt and angry with me, but I don’t understand why she still feels this way all these months later. I was hurt and angry with her for 8 months and it’s only been 6 months for me, but I’ve not done anything close to what she’s doing to me. I guess she just wants me to hurt in a different way.

In a lot of ways, I feel like this is just revenge based on her actions and words.

Yes, I feel like I am listening and validating her feelings and trying to make her feel better. I don’t think it’s from NGS, but it’s becsuse I’m trying to do a 180 on that behavior.

So last night on webchat I tried to be cordial and talk, it’s what I’ve always done because it’s who I am. She feels if I don’t do this then I’m just mad at her, which is what I don’t want her to feel.

You are being a "nice guy" here. Not saying you should not be cordial but why are you giving so much importance to what she feels?

My response was that I’m sorry she felt that way about this weekend .

Do you realize how weird it is that you are saying sorry for her feelings? You are not apologizing for any specific things you did wrong but you are apologizing because she feels bad and her feelings are controlled by her and not you.

I thought I went out of my way to let her webchat with him, while honoring her wishes. I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

"Honoring her wishes"? Do you believe talking to her this way will make her respect you?

She never responded

Are you surprised?

But again, I’m trying to just listen and validate.

Do you really believe that? I see a lot of apologizing and NGS trying to please her.


Sorry for the 2x4s

[HrtHsbnd]

You are right, it is VERY hard. Any ideas on how to make it easier?

(She) says I was very rude towards her last night and this past weekend.

My response was that I’m sorry she felt that way about this weekend and that I thought I went out of my way to let her webchat with him, while honoring her wishes. I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

She never responded. But again, I’m trying to just listen and validate.e

In your responses, I see you being polite and agreeable. I see some validation. "I'm sorry you felt that way" is a validating, sympathetic way to start. The next words, though, take a defensive 180: "I thought I went out of my way.. " It's tempting to defend our viewpoint, but if you really want to validate her, it helps to understand her viewpoint. A couple stock responses I like for your situation from the Validation Cheat Sheet on this website: "Gosh, I didn't realize you felt I was being rude.", "I could tell you were really upset last night." It can be really hard listening to why someone is upset with your behavior but--as long as she's not yelling, cursing, etc.--those talks are important. I hope this weekend is a better one for you.

[HrtHsbnd]

R2C,

Thanks for your advice!

She says respect is earned, not given and she doesn’t feel like I am doing anything to earn that respect back. So I am trying to point out what I am doing so that she sees it.

Would you not do that? Do you think she knows but just doesn’t want to say?

I also said that while I appreciate her concern, I have no reason to be hostile towards her and have been honoring her wishes now for several months.

Less words is almost always better.

[Ready2Change]

but I don’t understand why she still feels this way all these months later.

Your job is not to understand why, but rather HOW she feels. Your job is to own your emotions and not let hers effect yours. You are the man and you control your emotions. She is the woman, she expresses hers. You accept and acknowledge her emotions.


"You look angry"
"You sound happy"
"I bet you were excited"
"

[Traveler]

I have done everything I know to work on our marriage, except let it go.

Validation/empathy has been an amazing tool for me. Until you've tried it, you haven't tried everything.

I feel like I was really just validating her feelings. How would you handle that?

"I'm sorry you feel xxxx" is on this site's Validation Cheat Sheet. It's sympathetic. That's a step up from being defensive or minimizing her. However, empathy is a step up from that! "Gosh, I didn't realize you felt I was being rude." or "I could tell you were really upset last night."--also on the Validation Cheat Sheet--would take you a little deeper. Empathy is about: 1. Perspective Taking, 2. Withholding Judgement, 3. Recognizing Emotion, 4. Communicating That. "I thought I went out of my way.. honoring your wishes.. have been for several months" is not validating. Quite the opposite. It's defensive.

You are right, it is VERY hard. Any ideas on how to make it easier?

+ Realize her sharing emotions with you is a gift. If it gets to the point she's more disconnected, she'll still feel these things, she just won't tell you. You want her to feel safe confiding how she feels.

+ Our partners have a perspective and truth as valid as our own.

+ Slow down. Try not to rush to judgement--defending or minimizing them before you grasp their viewpoint.

[DaB35]

Validating is something I was late to the party with.

It works though. Recently I did something that was clearly pursuing/chasing. My W was not initially happy. After some advice here, I explained why I did what I did - in 1 sentence - I did not apologise for doing it, and simply validated that she would have felt upset by it. I didn't say "I didn't mean to upset you." I simply said "I can see how you might be upset by it." End of text.
The next day she replied apologising to ME, for "coming across as harsh."

It is a very odd way of thinking. I've never done it before, in any R, let alone my M. At 36, I'm only just learning this stuff!

Stick with it though. Don't ever be afraid of asking for pointers here, however insignificant a matter you think it is.

Slow down is really good advice. Don't expect things to turn around in a matter of days - this isn't a movie.

[IronWill]

HH you are getting some golden advice here.

To piggyback on what others have said, i also recommend you slow down.

This time frame is not in days or even weeks. It may take many months or possibly years to turn around, if it ever does and if she likes the changes you are making to yourself.

In the meantime, take yourself out of the equation as much as possible while you work on yourself. Read self-help books, inspirational books, relationship books etc.

When she does speak to you, listen more - much much more. Speak less. If she asks why you aren't speaking say something like "I am just here to listen". Before you respond, think about what you really want to say. Then look her in the eyes and speak calmly and clearly.

Let her initiate the conversations. If she wants to speak to you, she will.

And most importantly, do not focus on what she is doing. Focus on what you can control - you.

Take care and stay strong

[SoTorn]

She is only thinking about herself man. They don't care about what they have done at home. All they care about is how they look to everyone else and how they feel. My EXWW and I went to one MC session right after I confronted her on her A.

My EXWW broke down crying in the MC session. You know why she broke down? You would think it was because she got caught cheating and that her family was in danger because of her actions. Nope, she was crying because she was upset that everyone would think she was a wh0re.

[Traveler]

Hi HrtHsbnd,

Any successes or failures trying to validate your ex and her parents?

You are right, it is VERY hard. Any ideas on how to make it easier?

I'm reading a new book on listening. One tip it gives--before validation come naturally--is to memorize a stock phrase or three. In a heated moment it's easier to recall a specific reply like "Wow, you really feel XXX." than to recall "Don't be defensive" and come up with a good response on the spot.