I am new to the thread and looking for some advice. I have read several books and currently speaking with a counselor once a week by phone. I do not have the money to seek out help like I need to so I know that I need to rely on help from those that have gone through the same experience I have gone through. My wife and I have been together for 22 years and we have been married for 18 years. Monday will be our 19th anniversary. We even liked it each other in the 4th grade and she still has a love note I had written her during that time period.
Some information about our history and past. She is always been a devoted and loving person. We have two sons 18 and 13. In our 2nd year of marriage nearly 16 years ago I made the mistake of having an affair. Since that time period I have been faithful and I have always felt like it was the worst mistake I have made in my life. I have been faithful for the past 16 years. The past couple of years I have been really busy with my job and she has been focused on moving up in her career as well. We slowly became disconnected and I realized this and I knew I had to do something about it. We both have the summer off and so when June rolled around we got into an argument as she was stressed with doing her school work. She has been taking classes to further her career in her job for the past year. She told me she wanted to be separated. I stayed away from home one night and she stayed away two nights. She didn't want me to leave and she didn't want to leave either. She said she felt really bad when I left so I have been at home since then. Over the past couple of months she has been trying to get me to leave her. She has slowly told me information of infidelity in hopes of trying to get me to leave. At first it was just kissing in a bar and then three weeks later she told me about a one night stand. The information was given as she was telling me she wanted me to leave. She even told me to have respect for myself and move on. All of this occurred in June. Well on July 5th, I caught her with her boss. I road by his house and his truck was parked under the garage and within 10mins I caught him dropping her off at her caught in a hidden place in the woods. All she would confess to is being unprofessional but everything inside of me tells me she was at his house and probably sleeping with him. Her behavior at the beginning of the summer was a heightened sex drive and since July 5th we have been intimate maybe once a week. She has also introduced new behaviors in the bedroom which lead me to believe she has had other sexual encounters. She has really become hardened since I caught her with her boss. I have not approached him and when he dropped her off he did it down the road so I couldn't approach him. She hasn't been very remorseful about it and is only concerned about losing her job. He just moved her up in a position that will allow them to meet during the day to talk. Her boss is married!!!!!! We live in a small community and my wife says she doesn't care about rumors because they are not true. I knew this would be a worse case scenario because her job has become her life and she is really good at it. She works in the public sector so if this gets out it would ruin her career and no she isn't a politician but very close to that stature in what she does. You can probably guess what we both do by now. She could actually lose her job and never do it again if she was to be found having an affair with her boss. She will not let me look at her cell phone and she says she will not quit her job. She has agreed that she needs to move to a different place next year but she will still see this man at times. Since July 5th we have slept in separate beds maybe 4 times but we end up going back to our bed. She doesn't want to talk for long and never about anything heavy. She goes to work, comes home and naps, and then gets on her cell phone. We talk for about 30 mins about our day and that is all. I know that she is communicating with someone because she is typing the whole time. If I get to close or bother her she will go to the bathroom for 20mins. The other day she took an hour long bath and I was able to look through the window to see her using some chat that makes the messages disappear. I questioned her without me knowing and even said when I walked by I could see what the messaging screen looked like. She denied it and said she wasn't talking with anyone. I gave a detailed description of what it looked like because it was easy to recognize. There were no names on the messaging app just a yellow symbol at the top in the middle of the screen. Two nights later she went to the bathroom and I could see through the window that she was on the same messaging system on her phone. I know I've got to stop spying because deep down I know she is talking with someone but I don't know who. I can't prove she is having an affair just everything within my gut tells me its going on. We are not emotionally connected at all. I have started back work too but its hard to get it out of my mind throughout the day. She has been telling me to just be patient and everything will work out. I know she has been infatuated with her boss because of our past conversations. Her beliefs and attitudes have changed. She has been working out in town every morning really early. Her boss workouts during that time period too but at a different gym 1/4 mile away. Even after I caught them together she worked out the next morning. She goes 7 days a week. I am lost and don't know what to do. If i stand up to her she may leave or not talk to me at all. I want to save my marriage because I know that I love her. We also have both kids in the home. My oldest is attending college and the youngest son is in 8th grade. I am thinking if I will be patient she will eventually come around. The affair can't go anywhere because of their position in the public and both of them being married. I think she wanted separation at the beginning of summer so she could run around with him while they were both out of work. Problem is I am out of work also. Please give me some advice for saving my marriage. I have not contacted the guy, or his wife, or their employer. I don't want to humiliate my wife and besides I don't really know that they are having an affair. There is a lot of tension around the house right now. I am hoping in time this will play itself out but it is killing me. Please give some advice.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello and welcome! Cadet or Job will be along shortly to post a bunch of links, read them all. Do you have DR? If not then get it and read it too. Your wife is definitely having at least an "emotional affair" and more than likely a physical affair too. All the red flags are there, I don't think there's any question it's going on. So you're dealing with a "wayward wife" or WW here for short. Read Sandi's posts as much as you can, she touches a lot on WW's and how to deal with them. They are like a petulant teenager. They will lie right to your face even when presented with overwhelming evidence. They will gaslight you (look it up if you're not familiar with the term).
We always advise people NOT to move out of the house or bedroom. If the WAS wants to move out then don't try to stop them, but you should stay put. You're being hurt and inconvenienced enough as it is without having to deal with a move as well.
Good luck and keep posting. Read the book and the links and ask questions.
Hi Bballer, welcome to this forum! It's terrible you have to go through this. Cheating is the worst betrayal. I think you're right that the affair will eventually end but whether or not your wife is regretful is another matter. It seems it's going to take some patience for this to get resolved. I hope you find support and ideas for how to survive this crisis here I this group and I hope your wife simultaneously realizes what she could lose with this irresponsible cruel behavior!
Hi Bbaeller, wow, I'm sorry you have to deal with your wife having affairs both in front of you and in secret. That sounds like a horrendous situation to both have to deal with and find a way to move on from.
Hello,
I am new to the thread and would like to get help and advice in my situation. I have been married for 19 years and with my wife for 22 years. We were high school sweethearts and even liked each other in the 4th grade. We both teach school and have grown apart as we are at different schools and I coach and she is wanting to go into administration.
She tried to get me to leave her at the beginning of the summer. I discovered she was with her boss during the summer and I am convinced she is having an affair. I will not go into the details but I know my wife and I know this is going on. She recently started sleeping in another bed and we have not been as intimate since I caught her with her boss. I really want to save my marriage but she isn't putting anything into it. She has to see her boss everyday and she meets with him because she moved up into an administration role this year. I see no way out of this and I am going to have to live with it for atleast a year in hopes she can get another job somewhere else in administration. Her boss is married with two smaller kids. She is teaching his kid and our kid this year due to them being in the same grade. I've caught her using a secret messaging app and she will not let me look at her phone. I am devastated and see know way out of this. This seems like an almost worse case scenario. I can't leave my kids but she will not leave either. She is hoping I will get tired of it and file for divorce. She doesn't want to be the bad guy. Please give me some advice?
The affair is a symptom of a larger problem...growing apart as you noted in your post is probably part of it. Try to see past the affair to the underlying issue. I went to individual counseling after I discovered my wife’s EA and it was helpful to me as we worked on furthering my detachment. My wife has attempted to get me to quit just like you’ve described...to absolve herself of the guilt. She’s likely high on the drugs your body releases early in a relationship...which cause paranoia and block reason.
I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. You can change your title line at any time within a thread.
Man. Your situation mirrors mine. Was with my exww since high school. Married 18 years, together 22 years. She cheated with her boss. We divorced. You will get through this.
Read everything here. Detach detach detach and work on yourself. You deserve better.
max2k10 you are exactly right. When she gets home everyday we talk for about 30mins and I feel like that helps with us maintaining some kind of relationship for the moment. I hate to give that up because I don't want to lose her or my family. The problem will be as long as she works for this guy she will continue to have strong feelings for him. My wife loves deeply as she has fallen in love with everyone she has slept with and that scares the hell out of me. I didn't appreciate her like I should have and now I'm paying the price. She really has been a great wife for most of our marriage. I've made a complete 180 and that seems to have made it worse. I am doing everything as she was doing it before. Cooking, cleaning, paying the bills, washing and folding all the clothes. I am going to get the books and read them so I will have more insight for this thread. I did make one big mistake and that was letting her parents know what is going on. They are pro-marriage and they have tried talking to her. This has really pissed her off and that is why she started sleeping in the other bed 4 days ago.
I've made a complete 180 and that seems to have made it worse. I am doing everything as she was doing it before. Cooking, cleaning, paying the bills, washing and folding all the clothes.
How’s that working out? Cooking. Cleaning. Laundry.
Total beta man behavior. Wash her car, clean the toilets, vacuum the rugs, brush the dog, vacuum the fridge cooling coils. It won’t make a hoot of difference. She isn’t looking for a maid.
You may have done things wrong...but not EVERYTHING...marriage is push and pull... either spouse is a partly responsible for the failure.
Take care of yourself. Stop being the wimpy house cleaner. Helping out is fine but don’t take it as your sole duty in life. Vacuuming isn’t why she is upset.
B,
Sorry you are here but we will be able to help you with your situation.
It's very important that you print out and implement Sandi's rules until you get the hang of it. Everything you feel is the right thing to do is probably not. Telling her parents and becoming merrymaid are no nos. Do your share of the house work but that's it. Listen and validate and cut those convos short. Sorry I have to run then go and do something. You can't connect with a woman who has another man on her mind.
Think of your W is a cat. The more you try to hold onto a cat the more it wants to get away from you. The cat will comeback when it's curious. How can you become curious to the cat?
This is probably the hardest thing you will ever do and the key to it all is you have to be patient and limit your mistakes. Do not apply any pressure and know that this will likely take many months or more than likely years to play out.
bballer, to build on LH's post (and LB55's), you make the cat curious by becoming attractive. Attractiveness requires commanding respect. Sorry, but you do not command respect by being Mr. Maid.
Start thinking about ways you can command respect. Sandi's rules are a great start!
You are exactly right. Thanks for the insight. I know my old relationship is over. I have to make a plan to somehow move on and one way is to get myself totally involved with my coaching. It will keep me busy until late in the evening. I’m finding it hard to detach right now because I feel like I’m neglecting my son if I’m not home when he gets there. Why does she get angry if I try to detach myself right now?
You are exactly right. Thanks for the insight. I know my old relationship is over. I have to make a plan to somehow move on and one way is to get myself totally involved with my coaching. It will keep me busy until late in the evening. I’m finding it hard to detach right now because I feel like I’m neglecting my son if I’m not home when he gets there. Why does she get angry if I try to detach myself right now?
Because she feels a loss of control over you. As you detach, and you stop reacting emotionally to her crap, it will show her that YOU are in control of YOU. Not her. Most WAS think that after BD they are total control of the MR and LBS. Some of them react badly if and when the LBS starts to show that they are in control of themselves, and even have control in whether the MR stays or goes. I know in my own sitch, when my W saw that I had started to embrace the possibility of us splitting up, she started having second thoughts almost immediately. You never know how they'll react, sometimes they react with anger.
My EXWW also got mad when she felt me pulling away. She got mad solely because she lost control of the situation. My EXWW had it all planned out. She literally thought I wouldnt find out and that she would convince me that her not loving me anymore was my fault.
She would tell me things like "I just need space right now, if you don't leave me alone then I will go file for D". Your WW wants you as plan b. My EXWW even tried to get me to stay living in the house with her for the sake of the kids and stability. I ruined her plan to have her cake and eat it by finding out about her A.
I agree. She knows that I know but is so caught up right now she has convinced herself it isn’t true and that they are just Co-workers. He is married as well so their situation is pretty screwed up. Waiting this out will be difficult because I know that them being together is almost an impossible idea considering he is a Principal and she is a teacher. the only thing she will admit to is that them seeing each other off campus was unprofessional. I just hate it for my son because he is in my wife’s class along with her affair partners daughter. For them to be together she would have to get a job somewhere else in the county next year. She has a pretty good idea that she will be moving next year because she mentions it all the time. I have to believe she wants to eventually be with him or she would try reconciling now with plans to go somewhere else next year.
Its ridiculous how they lie. I hired a PI and have video proof of my EXWW staying in the same resort hotel room over several nights.
After confronting her they cane up with a story that he was really sick and she stayed with him to make sure he was ok. Desparately trying to convince me that there was no affair. She almost beloeved herself.
Believe nothing they say and half of what they do.
Yes, your expectations need to be set to zero with your WW. Stop trying to mind read or assume what she plans. Just accept that as of now, focusing on yourself is the path to happiness and being emotionally healthy.
This kind of stuff happens everyday in our school systems and they just sweep it under the rug. She got a call 2 years ago from the assistant superintendent that there was rumors about them. That was two years ago!!! I don't want to see her lose her job but we live in a small community and people have to know what is going on. Everyone at her school probably knows too. The kind of thing people know but don't really say much outside of private conversations. I feel like I should leave and file for divorce considering all the betrayal and deception that has taken place. If we reconcile it will be difficult to get past all she has told me and the way she has behaved the past two months. Thanks for all the support on here!
If we reconcile it will be difficult to get past all she has told me and the way she has behaved the past two months.
You have to get past all of that stuff before you can reconcile in my mind.
She has likely been in an inappropriate relationship for 2+ years...don't worry about reconciliation right now.
Is an affair a deal breaker for you? If so then you just file for D and move on. If not, then you've got to decide what youre going to do.
An affair is not a deal breaker for me under certain conditions. She would have to get another job next year and out of the county. We agreed upon this a month ago with the exception that she may have to stay in the county. She quickly reminded me that she would still have to see him due to them both being principals. She is hoping to get a job as an assistant principal next year. I really should have called the Superintendent when I caught them together but there was really no proof other than my word against hers. At this point I know our relationship is over. I have a hard time everyday with thoughts of contacting the OM, his wife, and the Superintendent of schools. I do know the assistant superintendent fairly well. She taught me in school. She is the one that called my wife 2 years ago.
So to define it a bit better...the affair in and of itself isn't a deal breaker.
The conditions you state are related to possible reconciliation...things she would have to do before you'd consider remaining in the marriage. Getting a new job and ending the A are conditions before you'd reconcile? Nice to think about but there is a ton of hard work to be done before you're there though. Lots of denial, hand wringing, hurtful words, relapses, etc...its a marathon for you that may still end in D. Is your goal to keep the marriage together?
She probably isn't just going to go 'ok! that is a great idea H!' and end her affair and get a new job and possibly move somewhere new when you tell her that is what it will take. I don't think that is a good conversation to have; just know your conditions if the situation ever gets to that point. Its still her decision.
Should have, would have, could have...its in the past brother...you could have told on her years ago...it likely would have just resulted in going deeper into secrecy. Focus on the now, and making yourself a better man.
There are probably actions you could take against her AP and so forth and out them publicly...would it fix the issue is the question? Or would it make it worse?
Yes, my goal is to keep the marriage together. My goal right now is to continue to work on myself and get more involved in my coaching career. I am also working on being a better father for my two boys 18 and 13. I know in time this will play itself out. Her own parents have told me to not give up, pray about it, and it will come out eventually. Like I said we live in a small community and this would ruin her reputation.
If I took action I'm not sure what would happen. I think more harm to my family and boys would be done. It would cause a lot of heartache and pain for her family as well. She already feels isolated from her parents due to me telling them. They live within a mile of this guy and his family. She is even related to his wife but not by blood. We live in a small farming community in the South.
Hell, I dated his wife in high school so talking to her wouldn't be a problem. She probably already knows something isn't right anyways. I wouldn't want to ruin their family either. They just built a home on her family land and its in her name so that tells me a lot.
I know reconciling is in the distant future. I haven't had any of those talks with her at this point. She doesn't want to talk about that right now. She avoids these conversations. I have made it clear to her that I am not leaving my house and she would have to leave. I also told her she would have to file for divorce, in which she responded, I guess Ill just have to be the bad guy.
Her father who teaches in the county also, told her on Sunday that he was going to approach the guy and tell him to leave her daughter alone. This is why she began sleeping in a different bed and why she also hasn't been intimate with me. She said I was too emotional to deal with being intimate. She started sleeping in another bed on Monday.
The truth always finds it way out is what I have seen here. While it is admirable that you don't want to ruin her reputation or her AP's family, is it REALLY you that ruined it or did her/their choices ruin it? Food for thought. I'm not saying you out her to anyone, she has to deal with the consequences, not you. Will it affect you, yes, and that is what you're fighting.
I've lived in the south, there can be some revenge and stuff going on in those small towns when this kind of stuff happens. I only spent about 6 years down there, so definitely not as long as you. I understand that dynamic a bit though and your concern on that front.
Sounds like you and your family are religious?
Of course she avoids conversations about ending it. Shes having a blast and cant quit the drug. Heroine addicts don't want to talk about quitting either. Until something happens to change their mind they will keep using. That something is rarely a person convincing them. Good that you've stated youre staying put in the house. She is mad that you've blown up her affair to her family? Oh well. Let her enjoy the spare bedroom.
No we are not that religious but her family has always been. If I had my family in church like I should have then I know we wouldn’t be in this situation. She blames me for the affair. She is very smart and has claimed it’s just a symptom of the problem. She did counseling for 2 sessions by herself and quit.
No we are not that religious but her family has always been. If I had my family in church like I should have then I know we wouldn’t be in this situation. She blames me for the affair. She is very smart and has claimed it’s just a symptom of the problem. She did counseling for 2 sessions by herself and quit.
This is just nonsense brother. Not the part about keeping the family in church, but the part about her affair being your fault. Don’t believe that crap. She will blame you for the dog getting cancer, rain that ruins her picnic with him, a flat tire on her car when she hits a pothole, and the Browns winning the super bowl. You’ll be blamed for everything you can think of because she CANNOT be responsible in her own mind.
I was remiss in church attendance too; I am the churchgoer and she never much cared for it. Never went once while I was gone and the year gone just was too much. I suspect she found an affair partner in late October and has t looked back. It’s her choice.
She was particularly in a foul mood tonight. I picked up the kids, she tried to lecture me about how to get the kids to the doctor if they get hurt; I already know how to do this, I’m an adult and a parent. I told her I felt she was questioning my parenting ability again and I asked her to stop. She stormed off, came back while the kids were getting buckled up and threw pizza coupons at me through the truck window and stormed off. I’m finding it quite amusing as I reflect back on it. ‘You don’t want my advice??? I’ll throw these pizza coupons at you! Ha I got you good!’ Craziness I tell you!
I picked up the kids, she tried to lecture me about how to get the kids to the doctor if they get hurt; I already know how to do this, I’m an adult and a parent. I told her I felt she was questioning my parenting ability again and I asked her to stop.
LB I see we continue to fight the same battle!
Did you thank her for the pizza coupons?!
bballer - Every adult on this planet is responsible for their own actions and their own emotional well-being. Don't take any unnecessary blame.
Common blaming phrases I hear from my W:
"You made me feel..." Nobody can make anyone feel anything
"You made me do..." Huh?
"I know you don't like to..." Mind-reading
Keep an ear out and you'll start to recognize your W's go-to blaming patterns. And you'll also recognize how they are all bait traps trying to get you sucked into pointless arguments.
We are not that far along yet. We rarely do any arguing as of now. I have been detaching and its made her curious but I shouldn't really care. Spent some time with my aunt last night and she told me that a pharmacist she works with said I was good looking so that really helped my self-esteem. lol Taking it one day at a time.
.
Yes just focus on yourself. My EXWW got very threatening when she thought I was going to out her and her boss to their leadership at her work. They would have both lost their jobs because she was paying for the resorts on her credit card and her boss was the one that approved the reimbursement. So they were staying at these $450+ per night resorts, several nights at a time, week after week, for months.
I had outted my EXWW to my family and hers because she was mistreating me horribly in front of them and acting like I was this horrible human. I stopped talking to others about her A though and just focused on myself.
At this point you need to accept that she is not going to stop doing what she is doing. Even if you blew it up she probably wouldnt stop. She would literally get mad at you for hurting her "lover". Its a disgusting mindset that they get in. I have no clue how someone can do that to their family.
That pharmacist saying you are good looking is just a reminder to you that there are literally billions of other people on this planet. There are plenty of women that would fight for your attention and fight to be important to you. Drop that rope. You may not want your WW back after you detach. I sure didn't and I decided that the level of mistreatment and betrayal was a dealbreaker.
My EXWW did the filing for D and pretty much agreed to all of my terms. We did not go to court. It was fairly "simple" transaction wise because she knew she f**ked up badly. But even with her sort of admitting fault she never stopped and never looked back. I sure hope she found that happiness she was looking for now that she lives alone, her boyfriend lives with his wife in a different state and she has to live without our kids half the time while they are with me.
I have a WONDERFUL new woman in my life who is amazing, stunningly gorgeous (like out of my league gorgeous lol) and she shows me with action that she wants to be a part of my life and she understands that words don't mean sh*t and action means everything. This woman made an effort that I have never seen before to show me she cares about me. Everything happens for a reason and you will be fine regardless if your MR stayes together and you reconcile or if you end up D. You just have to remember to keep the focus on yourself and your kids. Be aloof when you are around your WW and be busy bettering yourself and being a great father.
Thanks SoTorn. I’m glad you found happiness and living a fulfilling life. I know I can have that same life even though it feels as if that can’t happen at this point. My current wife is way out of my league and all my friends let me know that. Part of my problem is being from a broken home, I always felt like she would find someone else and that I was undeserving due to her being so Pretty and Intelligent. After 2 months I have been doing better emotionally and I know it’s very early in this process. We talked this morning and she wants out of the marriage but she doesn’t want to be the one to file. Too bad because I’m going to stick it out and move on with my life in the meantime. I hate that because it’s like living together but being single at the same time. Not sure if that’s good for the boys but time will tell. Thanks for sharing your story.
She also mentioned this morning she told her mom she may move out. Her mom advised her it would be abandonment if she left. So she has reconnected now with her mother and I expected that would happen eventually. I played golf today and when she got home from the pool she quickly started complaining about being bored. I’ve got a feeling it won’t be long before she moves out to live with one of her friends. Should I just stay out and let her make all the moves as far as leaving and filing for divorce? I won’t to save my marriage but I know our marriage is over until she goes through this. She stays at work late and locks herself in the bedroom when she gets home. I want us to be cordial for our boys but is this possible when you are betrayed and lied too like she has done. She wants us to have split custody of our 13year old, sale the house, and go our separate ways. Problem is she is so tied up in her affair that she doesn’t have time to file for divorce. Besides she wants me to do it due to her having an affair and her admitting to a one night stand back in November. She doesn’t love me anymore or she wouldn’t have basically cheated 3 times within the past 6 months. Am I crazy to even want to save this marriage for my youngest son? It’s tough to live in the same house with a cheater. I entered the room twice this morning and she quickly hid her phone under her arm and was smiling about it. I mean she is doing it right underneath my nose. It’s eroding my self-respect.
BB,
She's all the way disrespectful. Smiling in your face. Once you start looking thru her, and you are detach that smile will go away. If that happens again, you can't show any emotions. No, curled lip, raised eyebrows, no flared nose, don't hunch your shoulders, look at her, don't stare, then turn and walk away. No need to conversate with a person that's treating you like that.
IMO, she wants a D, let her do all the work. Like you said too bad, for what she wants. If it were me. I would pack all her belongings in the MBR and put them in the room she's living in. No more talking, all action.
Don't bring up the relationship, the M, a divorce or separation. If she's willing to watch you transform into BB 2.0 allow her. Move forward with your life, while taking care of your boys, right in front of her.
And obviously she wasn't too hot for you, because you'll been married a long time. Become confident, then respect yourself, that=being attractive.
Onward and upward
Joejoe,
Thanks for the support. Going to be a long process. Went to church this morning and her parents sat with me and my son. I spoke to them afterwards and they were really supportive. They want me to keep fighting for my marriage. Her father said fight the fight and her mother said God can change peoples heart. They just don’t understand how hard it is to get over the deception and betrayal. Knowing that it is still going on underneath my nose.
Right now she has plans of being with him. She has been telling her friends she will be leaving next year which means she will move to an assistant principal position at another school. That would allow them to get together. Now a lot has to happen for that to play out. Her AP would have to get a divorce as well as us.
One thing that has me so confused is I think she is going through a midlife crisis as well. Her libido is on super drive right now. We continue to be intimate but it is initiated by me and she doesn’t resist it. I think she just wants to have sex with this guy and not possibly be with him in the long run.
All I know for certain is that she has made up her mind she doesn’t want to be with me. Can her mind be changed? Probably not because I don’t think she will ever forgive herself therefor she will never be willing to put the work in for reconciling. I can see her going through this and possibly in two years wanting to get back into this relationship.
BB,
I really recommend you stop having sex with her. Stop initiating sex, it makes you look needy. You know she's having an affair and you still want to have sex with her? Her heart is with OM, she is basically using you as a warm dildo. You are worth more than that.
Back off and let go. She has to feel what's it's like to lose you. That won't happen if you don't allow space and time. She has created her plans for how she sees her future playing out. You need to put all your focus on yourself and boys. Most WW have grand plans, and they barely work out.
My W, wanted me to move out and get an apartment, while I pay for both households. She was going to get a job and place our 1 year old at the time in daycare. And she was going to go back to school. It was grand. Then she went to price daycares and that plan started to crack. Then she wanted to stay together and separate at the end of that school year. And I DB right in front of her.
I allowed her too be, it was hard as hell. But I GAL my but off. I detached with love. And, one-day she thought I was seeing someone else. She told me, "I get it, and I don't like the way I feel thinking about you with AP". I just looked at her and walked off.
On another day I asked her to shave my back, and she said, "This is my last time, tell that b#tch you with to do it". All I was doing was GAL. I started to lose interest in her and she started to feel it.
Then, when I was tired of the disrespect, I Divorced her in my heart and mine, and one night, when I caught her talking to the OM again. I told her to pack her sh't and get out. I wasn't playing anymore. She felt it. She felt, that I meant it. I didn't need no long drawn out declaration. All I need was her to feel my actions.
Onward and upward
I have a question about detaching? If I was always gone coaching and playing golf then detaching would be more of the same. What I am thinking about doing is taking my son and spending more time with him playing golf and doing other activities. We had homemade ice cream and peanuts tonight at her parents house while she went out to eat with her girlfriends. Her mother is very religious and the most supportive person you will ever meet. She has told me to just love her and pray about it. However, I know that my wife has changed and has distanced herself from all of us more and more. It’s really sad when we get home tonight and she doesn’t leave the spare bed to love the boys goodnight or speak to them. I know they are 18 and 13 but it is sad and I fear it will only get worse.
I guess this is going to be the longest year of my life because I am dedicated to sticking this out. I am praying and hoping this is discovered at work. It probably will not because this stuff happens all the time. They spend a lot of time together and people are talking but it will be chalked up to just rumors. All of this going on and my son is in her class and her AP’s daughter is in the class as well.
I’m going to continue to pray and detach.
I am not seeing a question about detaching. You say you have one and then launch into GAL activities. Detachment ISN'T GAL. They go hand in hand. detaching is not reacting emotionally to what she says and does.
Steve,
I see what you are saying. Detaching and GAL are different bings. It’s only been 2 months. I am slowly detaching to some degree. I’ve quit following her and spying on her. I’ve let her come to me for conversation here lately. I am going to spend all my time focusing on my youngest son. I opted out of a golf tournament this weekend and will spend the weekend planning something for the two of us to do together.
Does anyone on here have experience of telling the AP's wife, employer, or a role model? I have been waiting for this to play out in hopes of it coming out on its own. When I focus on the constant lies, deception, and betrayal I have strong thoughts in contacting some of these people. Truth is she doesn't love me anymore and I accept that fact. She could care less about my pain or what my boys are going to go through. Everyday this is a living hell to have to go home to an unresponsive wife. I thought about asking her to move out. A week ago I almost had her convinced to move out. Has anyone else had any experience on taking action and standing up for themselves? I don't want to fight with her but as I am getting stronger I feel more and more like I need to stand up for myself and tell her to go. Last Sunday I tried to tell her she needed to go ahead and file for divorce and we need to put the house up for sale. Of course she wanted to argue about who we would get to sell the house and got ugly about it. She got mad and said we needed to go ahead and just rip the bandaid off. This morning I told her I felt it wasn't fair for our sons to see us sleeping in different beds. She then claimed she was uncertain. She said she was sorting herself out. Trying to decide how she wanted to live her life. She claims she will make that choice based on how she has grown as a person and that she doesn't want anyone or anything to dictate that decision. She then proceeds to tell me she hates that I am hurting but she can't control that.
How would it benefit you to out the A? It wouldnt. I was going to inform my exwws work because she and her boss were using company resources for their meetings. She would have been fired along with OM.
OM is also married. But how would getting my exww fired or telling OMW help me? It wouldnt benefit me at all.
Even if you did out the A, your EXWW would just hate you more for hurting her lover. It would just cause her to resent you more and give her more justification in how she feels.
Remember, everything you do, must be focused on bettering yourself. All of your actions must be to benefit you. Also, do you want her to come back on her own or because she was manipulated into doing it?
Keep on DBing and keep on detaching. Thats your course right now period.
SoTorn,
Thanks for the advice. You are right. Only 2 months into this and I am still holding on hard. Last week wasn't all that bad. This week hasn't started off all that good. I will take your advice and try to back off. I've got to be stronger and let it go. Got to detach as much as possible. I am going to apply Sandi's rules.
Hi bballer1, Yes I have. My ex was having an affair with a co-worker. I researched him and he was married but hadn't told his wife. I phoned him, pretending to be a recruitment consultant and got the impression he was tied to his family. My W hadn't told me either but you get a sense about these things. I got sick of the lies and phoned him one Monday morning after W left for work. His W answered and when I gave her my name she fell in straight away. The colour drained from his cheeks and we agreed to meet straight away.
It did me no good but at least it put it all into the open. He explained that they were going ahead and he regretted the effects on our 2 children and his wife's child. So my hope that he would back off was shattered.Things got ugly between My W and his( at work ) and between his W's family and the 2 of them. I spoke to his W on a number of occasions but he wasn't going back and my W wasn't coming back and that's how it ended. They are now married.
In summary it was like lighting a firework without a label - who knows what might happen. I can't see a case for you doing it.
You sound depressed and desperate - exactly the opposite of what you need to be to sort this one out. And I cannot see any purpose in the random actions you are considering - I was like that. Wait until you see a clear purpose before you act or you may create problems for yourself. Use the site to get help and be content to play a waiting game. And look after your health - you need all your resources.
BB,
I read Sandi's rules every morning for like a month and I used AS mantra of detaching with love. I told myself to detach with love. I would smile at my wife, I wasn't nasty or mean to her. After we reconciled she said my being nice confused her. Since I was being so mean, before DB, that it was hard for her to be mean back. I treated her how I wanted to be treated. I never over did anything. I did my share around the house. She was nasty or mean, I smiled or was even kill. I never screamed or yell. I refrained from talking about any R or M issues. I never brought up any negative conversations unless truly warranted.
I didn't talk to her about any heavy conversations, No money talks, Didn't talk about discipline, about changes to the home. I kept conversations light.
When I first started smiling at her, it felt fake, and then it started to become natural. I smiled when I talked to people I didn't know. I still smile when we talk today.
"In summary it was like lighting a firework without a label - who knows what might happen. I can't see a case for you doing it."
I realize this while after thinking about it for a while. I know that it would only make matters a lot worse and I have got to detach from my wife.
We talked last night about deep feelings and I should have cut it off once she headed in that direction. She claims she is trying to sort herself out and how she wants to live her life. She claims she will make that choice based on how she has grown as a person and that no one or anything will dictate that for her. She claims she hates that I am hurting but she can't really control that. The icing on the cake was when she said she had "outgrown me" Those were her exact words. I smiled and said well I am catching up with my own growth.
The fact is I know she doesn't love me anymore. You have remorse when betraying or hurting people you love. She is caught up and has rationalized her wrong doings by telling herself these things. I have a hard time forgiving what she has done especially since she shows no remorse for what she has done.
I think healing and moving on would be easier with full disclosure. For us men, it is harder to detach because we are not use to talking about emotions with our friends. Most of our friends are just buddies that we play golf with and at 41 years old they all have families.
Joejoe1 - Sounds like your marriage ended up being reconciled and restored. If that is the case I am happy for you and your children.
Shes telling the truth. Yes, no more R talks. Just validate and keep detaching.
This past weekend she asked me if it was ok for her to go out with one of her girlfriends. I told her to do whatever she wanted to do but to honor our marriage in whatever she does. She didn't end up going. I guess I need to just let her go out with her friend. They usually attend bars etc.. in a bigger city an hour away. This isn't frequent but happens on occasions. Part of why we are where we are at now is because I allowed her to go out with her single divorced friends to bars etc...... I think she needs to go and get it out of her system.
Do people really ever change? She has told me some ugly things at the beginning of the summer. She mentioned she thought she was addicted to male attention. She mentioned she just felt like being reckless. I think this was in response to her sleeping with her boss because it could ruin her career and she could never teach again. I told her my son said she was going to his office after school and spending 2 hours behind closed doors. She claimed they were talking about confidential information and that he has a noise maker also so people couldn't hear what they were talking about. Unbelievable!!
Not being critical but your statement saying that you "allowed" her to go out with single friends seems a bit controlling. If she ever felt that she needed your permission to go out with friends that could build a lot of resentment.
At this point you truly need to accept that you cannot and should not be trying to control her. You can absolutely say something like "you going out makes me feel like xxx." But it should never come across like she needs permission.
Right now, more than any time ever, you need to just let go. If she asks you if she can go out, dont attach any expectations to it. You can tell her "You dont need to ask me for permission". Or just say "have fun".
This not only 180s on any controlling behavior, it helps you detach. Right now she will do what she wants no matter what and attaching expectations after BD could end up in a fight because youre still showing that her behavior affects your emotions.
Right now your mindset should be "shes going to do what she wants, but no matter what it will not bother me because im focusing on myself". Make sense?
This past weekend she asked me if it was ok for her to go out with one of her girlfriends. I told her to do whatever she wanted to do but to honor our marriage in whatever she does.
Don't tell a wayward things like this, she's in a rebellious state and as such she will accept it as a challenge for her to meet and exceed.
Do people really ever change?
She already has. In your first post you said she used to be a loving, loyal person. Now she's a wayward. That's a pretty big change. Do you mean change BACK? Yes it happens. It can take a long time though. My XW has only started acting more like her old self in the last year. I had a neighbor whose wife went wayward. Moved out, got her own place, started partying with her enablers, got a tattoo that said "she's finally free!" in Latin. 6 months later she was back home like nothing ever happened.
She mentioned she thought she was addicted to male attention. She mentioned she just felt like being reckless.
Yeah that's the typical WW/ GGW mindset. She's going to be like this for a while. Nothing you can do will stop her or talk sense into her, so don't try. Just focus on you and leave her to her mess.
AnotherStander,
Thanks for giving me hope. I know this is going to be a marathon and I've got to detach and find peace within myself. I've got to make myself happy and get back to doing things I enjoy. I need to remind myself that she is looking at me as a stranger and that she doesn't know what to do.
Spending time with my son this summer has been rewarding and I need to enjoy the time I have with him.
Well she wanted to sit down and talk and I couldn't get away before it got heavy. She is wanting out of the marriage and wants to make plans to slowly dissolve our relationship.
We would have to sell the house first which could take some time. She is so preoccupied with work she doesn't have the time to do any of the work needed to file or put it into motion. I guess I just need to continue to detach and try to slow things down. If this goes through I would end up having to do all the work.
A lot of her attitude this weekend was that of resentment. I'm afraid the longer I hang around the more she will grow in hate toward me and we wouldn't be able to be cordial through all of this. She feels like she is being trapped if I don't move on.
My question is if I detach and avoid her pretty much completely will she end up hating me and having resentment toward me which will lead to a messy divorce. I want to do what is best for my family and this includes my two sons. I don't want them to see her hateful or angry toward me. I knew detaching would make her angry.
What does detachment mean to you?
Detach means to let go and live my life without worrying about her. I've got to free her from my mind and GAL. I need to focus on myself and my kids.
Well she wanted to sit down and talk and I couldn't get away before it got heavy. She is wanting out of the marriage and wants to make plans to slowly dissolve our relationship.
Whenever she forces these R talks on you just listen and validate but STAND YOUR GROUND.
"I want out of the marriage and we need to make plans to dissolve things."
"I understand you want to end things, it's not what I want but I will not stand in your way."
"I am very busy at work so can I count on you to take care of this?"
"No, this is not what I want and I will not help. But I will not try to stop you."
"How dare you not lift a finger to help blah blah blah rant rant rant!"
"This must be very difficult for you, I am sorry you are struggling."
"So you will help me then? You will do the paperwork?"
"No."
She is so preoccupied with work she doesn't have the time to do any of the work needed to file or put it into motion. I guess I just need to continue to detach and try to slow things down. If this goes through I would end up having to do all the work.
Nope, you do not need to lift a finger. She wants a D but she's too busy? Her problem.
A lot of her attitude this weekend was that of resentment. I'm afraid the longer I hang around the more she will grow in hate toward me and we wouldn't be able to be cordial through all of this. She feels like she is being trapped if I don't move on.
She's trapped in a prison of her own making. You didn't force her to get married and you are not forcing her to stay in the M. She is free to leave whenever she wants, she is free to file for divorce, she's free to do what she wants. THAT DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS FREE TO MAKE
YOU DO ALL THE WORK!
My question is if I detach and avoid her pretty much completely will she end up hating me and having resentment toward me which will lead to a messy divorce.
She's just got resentment in her heart right now and she's blaming it all on you. Detachment and leaving her alone is the ONLY thing you can do that will help.
I don't want them to see her hateful or angry toward me. I knew detaching would make her angry.
ANYTHING will make her angry right now. Pursue her, don't pursue her, help her, don't help her, it all makes her mad. Detach for YOU. Leave her to her roller coaster ride.
Hey BB, why are you giving her that power?
Listen to LH. Listen to AS
YOU have the power. BE yourself. Live YOUR life.
I guess I am still holding on to the marriage and that is why I allow her to have this power over me. I know I have got to let it go and move on with my life.
That is what she truly wants anyways. She wants me to be happy and admitted she has been hanging around hoping I would get better and not be as devastated. I feel like she is hoping I will find someone else and will eventually file for divorce once I get over it and accept it. I believe this is what happened with her best friend as well.
She has mentioned another woman in her workplace that lived with her husband for a year before he filed for divorce. I have a hard time accepting I need to wait this out due to the fact of what she has done and not being remorseful at all.
My wife is a good woman doing a bad thing. This is the only reason I want to save my marriage. She is highly respected in our community and in her job. She claims that for her to have done the things she has done in the past year that it is clear she doesn't love me. I don't think she can truly forgive herself and that is why she wants to be single. So she can start over and probably also to continue in the affair with her boss. She is a very decisive woman so I find it difficult that she will change her mind someday. She is a natural leader and generally knows what she wants and makes decisions based on those principles.
She has stated that the one night affair made her realize that she is desired and that she can find someone else. The problems in our marriage were a lot worse than I thought. She claims she now realizes she has a choice in her own happiness and her life regardless of what people think. This is her way of justifying divorce because it is highly frowned upon.
I am going to continue to follow Sandi's rules and pray for the best outcome for my family.
She claims that for her to have done the things she has done in the past year that it is clear she doesn't love me.
Well yeah, but she has it backwards. Love is a VERB, not a noun. It's something you DO. It's an ACTION that you choose to take or not take. This is real life, not Hollywood. Love takes hard work to maintain once you are past the limerence phase. Your wife CHOSE to quit loving you. Whatever she thinks you did wrong in the M, she could have chosen to work with you on it and continue loving you. But without your consent or permission, she instead unilaterally chose NOT to love you. So "the things she has done in the past year" are 100% on her, NOT you. Right?
She has stated that the one night affair made her realize that she is desired and that she can find someone else.
Yup, and she will repeat this cycle all over again.
She claims she now realizes she has a choice in her own happiness and her life regardless of what people think.
She is right. She doesn't realize that she could choose happiness WITH you. She will hopefully realize that some day.
I am going to continue to follow Sandi's rules and pray for the best outcome for my family.
Good.
I’m going to get the books and read them. Should have already purchased them but I’ve been paying for counseling the past 2 months.
The hardest thing is at night when we sit down for dinner with the boys. We talk and interact as if nothing is going on. It’s fine but I really need the book so I can learn how to handle these types of situations. I helped her prepare the food because she asked. It wasn’t much and only took me about 5 minutes.
Later afterwards she laid on the bed close to me for a while. She asked me if we would always be friends. I just answered yes.
The books can probably explain how to relate in all these situations.
AS: Thanks for the advice. You guys keep my spirit up during the day. It’s nice to have people that have been through this to help others. Thanks again guys.
B,
You need to get the book and read it ASAP. Why did you agree to be friends? Is it because you didn’t want to upset her? Telling her you will always be friends is making it easier for her to walk out the door.
The hardest thing is at night when we sit down for dinner with the boys. We talk and interact as if nothing is going on. It’s fine but I really need the book so I can learn how to handle these types of situations.
You should read the book because it will help explain a lot of what you read on these forums. But check out the thread about Sandi's rules, those rules are your template on how to behave in these situations. Very briefly- no R talks, no following her around, no pressure, be polite, well-groomed, detached.
I helped her prepare the food because she asked. It wasn’t much and only took me about 5 minutes.
That's fine. Just have no expectations, because it doesn't really mean anything.
Later afterwards she laid on the bed close to me for a while. She asked me if we would always be friends. I just answered yes.
That's just WAS script. They have this cake-eating fantasy of pursuing their new "swinging single" life with some handsome new OM while being able to call on their ex to fix their car, hang a picture, spend a little family time or do them some other favor all without the pressure of having sex or do anything relationship-wise. In general we say not to go there because she needs to start to realize her fantasy is just that. If she asks you if you'll always be friends and you reply "wow I don't think so, if I'm in a new relationship I will be completely focused on that." or something along those lines, it will be a cold slap in the face to her that her "plans" may not go down the way she thinks. Now I'm not saying that exes can't be friends, they absolutely can. My XW and I are on very friendly terms. But that's a bridge you'll cross years from now, for right now you want to detach and not be her BFF.
I know what you guys are going to say but I haven’t been really trying to follow her or track her movements. I never have gotten exact proof until tonight. It’s just as I thought is was and maybe worse.
She had a message on her phone and he mentioned he couldn’t concentrate due to f$&@$&! Her yesterday at school. So there it is and now I have definitive proof it is sexual.
I have not mentioned this to her. I will most definitely move on with my life and love each day to make myself happy. I am almost 3 months into this and she has always denied it being physical. Well now I know for certain it is physical and I am sick to my stomach all over again. I’m trying to collect as much information as possible so if the time ever comes I’ll have some form of proof.
I know you guys are going to get onto me for snooping but I needed proof and now I have it. Thanks for everyone’s advice and helping me through this difficult time. Going to get the books from the library tomorrow.
Ok bballer1 you have proof now. Does that change anything for you long-term or are you just responding to your emotions?
Of course she was going to deny it - this should be no surprise. And the fact that she was "lying" really doesn't change much since she's been deceitful the whole 3 months anyways.
You have your proof, you don't need more. Let this settle for a little bit and don't make any rash decisions during this emotional state.
BB,
We know the feeling, you are feeling. Give yourself distance from your WW.
I had to find proof as well. And I found all the proof I needed. Pics, messages and all.
I confronted my WW immediately. I woke her out her sleep as soon as I saw the proof. You don't have to do that, but for me, my WW was going to know why I started to distance myself from her. She was a cheater and now she knew I knew she was a cheater.
When you confront her with the evidence, the first thing she's going to do is, try and blame you, switch the subject. Most likely, she will say, "why were you going thru my phone". You look at her, don't say another word, turn and walk away. She now know you know. Don't try to talk her out of what shes doing. Don't blame for anything, don't say another word and walk away. She will try to come and explain herself, you don't need no explanation for why she cheated. The only words you need to hear, is w remorseful sorry and she will stop. Explanations for why she cheated comes during recon. (If that's what you want).
Don't confront the OM, your WW made the choice to cheat. The more you mention his name the more power you give him in your WW mind. I rarely ever mentioned the OM's name. After my wife and I recon, my Wife told me that she was talking about me to the OM, and he would tell her, "you not over you husband are you, you are going to back to him". Look at them, her OM was jealous of me, ain't that funny. I didn't mention him and now he's upset with her, because she's talking about her husband.
Onward and upward
I guess I am responding to my emotions. I haven’t done anything crazy about it. I’d like to probably meet up with this guy and well you can imagine what I’d like to do.
Thought about confronting her because she couldn’t deny it at that point and would have to admit what she is doing. If she can’t deny it then she would have to deal with it. That would mean she would have to start making a decision about what she really wants to do. This guy is married so she can’t really be with him without this getting out. It would seriously jeopardize their positions in their job.
Should I confront her with the information or do I need to back away so I can possibly collect more information? If I tell her then she will start using other means to communicate and I will not be able to collect more information. I may need it for legal purposes etc..
She may walk out the door who knows but I think she will still try to deny it somehow. It was a message through a game app so there is no name on it. However, you can assume it is him because he names another coworker they work with in the text. The game uses symbols in place of a name.
BB,
Depending on the state or country, infidelity has no bases in what happens in court. Judges don't care about the inner workings of the M. They will only care about the assets and kids. With that being said, states like TX divides all assets 50/50 mostly. No hassle for the judges. So don't let continue trying to collect evidence about her infidelity to use against her in legal battles.
If you don't have definite proof then fall back on confronting her. But if the proof you have is clad tight, then you don't need anymore proof. The only thing you need to know, was that she had no doubt cheated. The amount of times and with who don't matter at this point. She is cheating and that's all you need to know to move forward. So when you confront her about what she has done, you are doing so not in an attempt to beg her to stop, but to explain, that you won't tolerate the disrespect.
In the book, "love must be tough", and the doctor speakers on confronting your Spouse about cheating. If you can, read that book, before you confront her on her infidelity. It can help give you a road map to tackling that situation.
IMO, you have enough evidence, you don't need to know who the guy is, even thou you have a strong suspicion, the problem is not the OM, it's your WW. All your focus needs to be on yourself, telling her what you will not live with and tolerate. There will be a strong urge for revenge, but remember this is about your WW disrespect and not trying to get back at the OM. Forget about him.
You will have to establish boundaries, no matter if she's decides to stop or continue in the direction she's going. Your boundaries will need consequences. Most LBS struggle with implementing boundaries and holding their spouses accountable, if they cross those boundaries.
Lastly, if she denies, then you look her in her eyes and say, "you are a liar, and what you are doing is not right". Don't say anything else, don't stand around to give her a chance to manipulate you.
Take your time, and think of boundaries you can tolerate being cross, and figure out those consequences, Once a person cross your boundaries, you can't go back on the consequences, after you inform them, of what your consequences are. I use them, because your boundaries shouldn't be cross by anyone
Keep posting
Onward and upward
Bballer,
what more information would you require? Catching them in the act? Even then you would be probably asking for explanation, asking if OM possibly slipped on wet floor and stuck himself into your W.
Stop with the snooping, you are only making things worse for yourself. Scramble all passwords used to snoop on your wife and stop with it. Snooping only interferes with your growth, delaying your journey. Face the music that your marriage is over. Done. Finished. Kaputt. Dead. Muerto. No more. Gone. Dust in the wind. It was over at BD. And no amount of snooping will unscrew your wife. And no, it is not OM's fault. It takes 2 to tango. Is it your fault your marriage failed? Yes. To some percentage, you are also at fault your marriage ended. DEal with it. Forgive your self. Take valuable lessons from it. You need to grow, you need to further yourself.
Stop snooping. Further snooping WILL DO YOU NO GOOD. It will only screw with your mind, and heaven knows, your mind is screwed enough ATM.
Get help for youself.
Stay< strong.
V
Vapo is right. Snooping will absolutely stunt your personal growth, real or not, proven or unproven. I think the majority of us guys here do it for several reasons after BD. Either because we are territorial by nature, or because we want to prove to ourselves that our suspicions and intuitions are right based off of what we observeve, so we can learn what red flags to look for in the future. Its poor excuse and justification, and has no value in your self growth, but somewhat useful. But still keep a you emotionally stunted. Especially if we have had it happen to us more than once. We question whether it is because of who we are? Who we keep picking as partners, or whether it is just nature? O a result of all three. Learn from it. Write down the signs and use it im case there ever is a next time in another relationship if you see the warning signs, and move on.
I agree - yes to no snooping.
I did it once but immediately regretted it. I'm in a slightly different position as I'm the one who was the betrayer. My W was the victim. I wanted to see what she'd been saying to people. I stopped myself after logging in to her iPad when I was in the house by myself. I was pleased I didn't look. Best not to know.
I was being gas lighted and horribly mistreated by my exww when she was cheating. I personally needed the peace of mind and wanted to confront her to at minimum get her to stop the gas lighting and mistreatment. I coughed up several thousand dollars for a private investigator.
It cost a lot but it was worth it. The gas lighting stopped but the lying and disrespect didn't. I felt like confronting my exww was necessary because of how badly she was treating me. I needed some relief and although it hurt, gathering the information and confronting her helped me move on.
YMMV though.
I totally agree. After all the information I got the other night by way of messages, I didn't even think about looking at their conversations yesterday.
I know that I want to save my marriage even with all the information that I have and the details that I know. This sounds crazy. I have shared this information with one of my parents. She has strongly advised me to not let her know that I know and that I should see an attorney for legal advice.
I know that if I see an attorney she will eventually find out and this may hurt our chances at reconciling down the road. WE don't have many assets other than our home. Both of us make the same amount of money and we both have retirement. Is there really any need for me to see an attorney? Will this make it harder to save my marriage if she finds out?
I don't think I need to be in a rush and if she ever files then I will have plenty of time to discuss my situation with an attorney.
Please give me some thoughts or experience with this issue. I really think it would hurt instead of help with bringing us back together.
BB,
Hmmmm.... Your mom will be partial to advising you on your best interest and not what's best to possibly save your M. I would limit the amount of information you tell your parents. Secondly, I agree with your mom. Seek legal advice, just to find out what your rights are if a D was to take place. The more you know the better prepared you can be.
If she finds out you went to a lawyer, you let her know, she was cheating on you. It's a good idea to wait until you seek legal advice before you disclose what you know. I went to google, looked up the best divorce lawyer in my area. I called a few and they gave me advice over the phone. I didn't have to go into an office or pay a dime to gather some much needed information to help drive some of my future decisions.
From what I have seen on this site, most people who sit on the information ends up hurting their cause, because, when it comes time for confronting their spouse, they end up looking weak because they waiting so long and was accepting of their spouse in the meantime. For example, you will continue to do one 180s, be positive to and around her, GAL, and act as if. You will treat her like a neighbor. Then when you confront her, she will say, "you knew all this time, and you treated me like blah, blah, blah. Why treat me so nice, and be so positive if you knew this. You accepted it all this time, why are you changing now?"
No More Mr. Nice Guy and tough love will have us be honest with our spouses and transparent. This way, they understand why we are acting the way we are and we are being confident and masculine. The earlier you confront, the early you can begin the process of healing.
You have to continue to detach so you can make logical decisions. You reaching out and getting legal advice, is good for you, and making her upset shouldn't affect you. We know it will, but once you are detached, you can make logical decisions.
Bballer,
what more information would you require? Catching them in the act? Even then you would be probably asking for explanation, asking if OM possibly slipped on wet floor and stuck himself into your W.
I was about to say! Seeing a message from OM to W talking about how he can't concentrate because he's thinking about how he just banged her (AT SCHOOL!!!!!!!) seems pretty cut-and-dried to me.
BB, you now know two things about your W:
1) SHE IS A CHEATER
2) SHE IS A LIAR
Some people take offense when I tell them this, they'll start defending their wife. They'll get mad that I said something that they think attacks her character (what character????) But here's the thing, the sooner you realize what you are up against the sooner you will "see the light" and quit playing her game. You want to give her another chance? See number one above. You want an explanation from her? See number two.
Now I am not saying she is beyond redemption, I've seen marriages rebuilt after cheating. But what I am saying is no matter how wonderful and good and loyal your wife USED to be, right NOW she is a lying cheater. You've got to quit trying to reason and negotiate with her like she's still that old wife you knew, she's no longer that person. She might be again some day, but that's way down the road.
Regarding the snooping, talk to a lawyer. As Joe said, a lot of states have adopted "no fault" D and if yours is one then all the evidence of cheating in the world won't make a difference. And if it doesn't then don't snoop anymore because you already know 1 and 2 above, and that's as bad as it gets. All snooping will do is keep verifying 1 and 2, unless there are legal reasons for it which your L will tell you if there are.
Hey BB, you don´t need to have even a talk. You just need to let her know that you know. Then you can walk away.
Keep DB basics at hand. Believe nothing that she says...you know the rest.
Be strong there man. DB!
Thanks to all the advice. At the end of the day I know I have got to just move on. Taking care of myself is the most important thing.
I am meeting with the lawyer today for advice going forward. He can tell me how best to protect myself and my family. Everything is so crazy when going through all of this and it's very scary. So many things go through your mind about the whole process.
She will be super angry once I confront her and not sure she will get over her anger due to what she has done. This will make the whole process much more difficult. I know that I have got to be strong and firm going forward. I will not allow myself to be walked on or used as a doormat.
What is comical in the whole situation is that she makes me feel like I am the crazy one here. Absolutely no respect for me at all.
Look up the term gaslighting
I am meeting with the lawyer today for advice going forward.
Perfect!
She will be super angry once I confront her and not sure she will get over her anger due to what she has done.
Exactly, confronting them rarely has any positive benefit. Most of them consider themselves divorced after BD and free to do what they want to do, so to her it's you snooping into her private life and she thinks it's none of your business. As crazy as that may sound, that's how a WW thinks. If you do confront her then expect denial, lies and gaslighting. No matter what she says, just say "We both know the truth, and I just wanted you to know that I know and that's the end of this conversation." Then walk away.
What is comical in the whole situation is that she makes me feel like I am the crazy one here. Absolutely no respect for me at all.
LH beat me to it but yes, that's classic "gaslighting" and is the favorite weapon in a WW's arsenal. Read up on it so that you can recognize when she's doing it and not get pulled into it. When you're being gaslighted you feel the need to defend yourself which is the whole point of them doing it- to throw you off balance and take the focus off themselves and put it on you. When you respond like I suggested above it blows a hole in their gaslighting. If you do it consistently eventually they'll give up on it because it's not working.
Depending on the state or country, infidelity has no bases in what happens in court. Judges don't care about the inner workings of the M. They will only care about the assets and kids. With that being said, states like TX divides all assets 50/50 mostly. No hassle for the judges. So don't let continue trying to collect evidence about her infidelity to use against her in legal battles.
Not strictly true. It varies widely by jurisdiction. He should really find out what the law is in his state and become aware of his rights. In Virginia, where I am, for instance, adultery, if proven, is usually an absolute bar to the adulterer/adulteress receiving spousal support from the aggrieved spouse. Adultery is also grounds in Virginia for an immediate divorce degree without the usually requisite trial separation period. Finally, if you know about adultery and can be said to have "condoned" it, you give up the right to claim adultery as grounds for divorce and/or withholding spousal support (alimony) In Virginia, condonation occurs when the parties voluntarily resume sexual relations and continue living together after the innocent spouse learns of the adultery.
So... he needs to be aware of his specific legal rights and, depending on the circumstances and what he's hoping to achieve, it can be worthwhile to gather (or have gathered, by a private investigator who knows how to stay within the law on such matters) evidence of adultery. That's not to say I would condone "snooping." Snooping (or, more kindly, "intelligence gathering") is a controversial subject on here, and opinions vary widely. It can be useful situationally... but it can also be harmful to you and hurt your own development. You shouldn't go looking for information that you know if you found it you couldn't handle... Also, if reconciliation is something you think is possible and desirable, knowing all the exact grim details of your W's affair might be something you would never be able to get over... some things you just cant "un-see" or "un-hear". I myself
did "gather intelliegence" from time to time, but did not always do so in a way that was beneficial to my objectives and my own development/growth (which, in DB-ing, is your paramount concern until you get to piecing). I will say this in sum: I don't think it is a black or white issue-- "NEVER snoop" vs. "YOU HAVE TO KNOW"... it really depends on your own situation, what your goals are, and what you can handle.
Outside of the legal ramifications, strictly in terms of saving the marriage (And/or your self-esteem and sanity) I am a staunch supporter of confronting the offending spouse ASAP (As, I believe, is Sandi2, whose position, at the risk of doing it violence is, I believe, that if more LBS's dropped a bomb of their own on the Wayward spouse IMMEDIATELY upon discovering the A, the road to piecing, where piecing is possible, would be significantly shortened.) I would urge you read in depth, if you have not, Sandi2's threads on WWs. You can also, if you wish, check out my threads... My marriage successfully recovered from a WW and an affair, though I had many failures and missteps along the way. My sitch was somewhat unique in several ways, but i think there are nuggets in my own experiences that will be useful to most LBH's dealing with a WW in an affair.
Spoke with the lawyer today. He advised me not to disclose of the information I have. He said that knowledge is power. I still may confront her tonight. I feel like I’ve got to get it off my mind and move on. I know she will deny it anyways.
Spoke with the lawyer today. He advised me not to disclose of the information I have. He said that knowledge is power. I still may confront her tonight. I feel like I’ve got to get it off my mind and move on. I know she will deny it anyways.
You do not need to move on. You only need to move forward.
Been away fro a few days. I had to confront her so it would help me move forward. She still denied it to some extent and became very angry. I walked out and she nearly attacked me in the bedroom. I refused to give her my phone and she was adamant about me deleting the picture of the message. That was all the confession I needed. It felt relieving to get it off my chest and to be honest about what I know is going on.
I am going to move forward with GAL and detachment as she knows that I know for sure what is going on. I just pray she doesn't get pregnant in the process as they are having sex every single day and brag about it in the messages.
They have plans to be together. Its just as I thought. He is convincing her to slit with me and then he will split with his wife. She can get a job somewhere else in the county and then they could be together. Spouses can't work at the same school. Especially if they are in an administrative role.
I have decided to let her do everything with moving in the direction of divorce. If she is ugly about it then I will eventually go to the other mans wife to let her know. I will expose it to those that are being hurt. I realized last night just how much hate she has for me for her to have done these things and continue to do these things. I believe divorce may be the only option as I know way to much in order to forgive. IF I had any advice to give others it would be to not dig to deep because what you find may scare and scar the crap out of you.
Well the very next day I get a call from the paramour’s wife. She received a letter from some teacher at school that claimed her husband and my wife were having an affair and it was obvious. I told her only what I witnessed with him dropping her off in the woods in a dirt road. I couldn’t bring myself to telling her everything I knew.
She was very angry and upset. She wants them both fired. I feel so bad for her because she works at another school in the district. Her school is 2 miles away. I’m just blessed that I work in another district 40 miles away.
Not sure where this will go from here. She said she wanted to talk again and I don’t think I can hurt her by telling her everything I know. Any suggestions on handling this situation? Anyone with any experience?
Lies and evil thrive in the darkness. They need to have light shone on them to dissipate.
Look, you know the truth, and OMs spouse strongly suspects. This is a somewhat different sitch than if she suspected nothing. She has asked you point blank. If you don't tell her what you know you are aiding and abetting the adulterers. There are lies of omission as well as lies of commission.
JMHO.
Not your monkey, not your circus.
What Vapo says. Stick to DB. Don’t get into MR talks. Now you know. She knows you know. That’s all.
Keep DBing
Well a lot has happened in the past three days. I let the OM wife know the details. She actually was able to know all the details. This may be unprecedented to be able to know every single detail due to the messaging game they used. She is probably going to divorce her husband but not sure.
My wife was in a lot of pain the past two days with being away from him and no contact. I tried to help as it was tough to see her crying all day. I did not stay home from work but she called me constantly.
Her attitude seemed to change all of a sudden so I knew she had contacted him somehow. I asked her point blank and she admitted to calling him.
She has been honest and she claims she feels responsible for him having to go through a divorce and for him feeling so badly. She said she could tell he was down and out and she had never seen him this way before. I thanked her for being honest and admitting for calling him. She also admitted that she had a strong desire to continue to talk to him and that they wouldn’t be physical at all anymore. She is scared the OM’s wife will have both of them fired since she has all the information of them talking and having sex at school.
I honestly am deflated that she has admitted she is addicted to the situation but I appreciate her honesty.
I have told her that if she continues the deception and lies then I will move forward with divorce. I cannot continue to live in this situation and I have made up my mind that I will not love like this
If she continues to hide her phone and sleep in another room then I will ask her for a divorce. I don’t think I can continue to live with this knowing she doesn’t really know what she wants.
Your W feels bad for the hard times her OM is having...what about her H?
She wants to talk to OM and just be "friends" is it?
I have no sympathy for the OM and neither should you. You probably ought to give your W some space for a while bc you don't want to be talking to her about all that garbage.
Her sleeping in the other room, for the time being, is fine. Hell with all the craziness lately, you'd be sending the wrong message by trying to get her to come back to the MBR. Her phone is not the problem either, she is.
Focus on you, protect yourself, grow, heal, learn. Don't dance so close to the fire anymore my friend.
Thank you for the encouragement. It’s been rough knowing she cares more about him than me. Not sure we can recover and she is not sure if she wants to put in the work to rebuild trust or our relationship.
This blog has really helped me.
B,
You are not her emotional tampon to get her through the struggles she is currently have with OM. Don't take her calls at work because you are too busy. Give her time and space and see what happens. In time they will most likely take the A underground. Actions always tell the truth.
Hey BB, wws are selfish. I was one of them some time ago. We live that double life with guilt and anxiety. We are all time under that fog. That´s why we say DB is for each one of the LBS. You DB for yourself.
Keep DB then.
Patience, moving forward. Get into amoafwl. Don´t wait for crumbs. Go man!
(((BB)))
Thank you for the encouragement. It’s been rough knowing she cares more about him than me. Not sure we can recover and she is not sure if she wants to put in the work to rebuild trust or our relationship.
This blog has really helped me.
Believe you me, she is sure as hell not pondering about the relationship with you. Not one iota. I get you man, I really do. I was you 5 years ago. A naive schmuck who thought that my love will be a bright beacon to guide her from pain and back into the marriage. All she is is feeling sorry for herself and for her beau.
As the others have said, give her space, give her time. You need time away from her as well.
She has been honest and she claims she feels responsible for him having to go through a divorce and for him feeling so badly.
Are you kidding me? She is sorry for the demise of his marriage?!? What the fcuk about the demise of her marriage? Do not believe one more word from her. She will be physical with him again. She will not be able to resist the urge. She will lie to you, she will hide stuff from you, she will disrespect you with her actions. Do not believe her and you will not be hurt all over again when she sleeps around again. And sleeping around is the least of your problems. The main is the lack of respect for you and you also do not have any respect for yourself. What kind of a husband consoles his wife when she is crying over another man?!? I am not dumping on you, I was you 5 yrs ago.
For you to stand any chance of a new relationship with your W, she has to respect you first. Without respect nothing can be ignited.
Hit me hard Vapo!! I completely understand and trust me I walk away thinking I must be an idiot after the whole ordeal.
I have contacted a lawyer already and seriously contemplating issuing an ultimatum. I am so much better than I was 3 months ago.
I think it all comes down to standing up for myself. I have already told her that there will be certain boundaries and I will have to walk away if she continues to be deceitful. Maybe this is what she wants and if so then only time will tell.
My son is 13 and he will chose to live with me so she can be alone waiting on his marriage to fall apart and she knows this. I just don't see why people chose to stay in this type of environment for very long. I really don't think I can hang around much longer but only I can make that decision.
Eventually, I will have to make that decision. What really was the nail in the coffin is when she said she may resign because its the honorable thing to do. Basically admitting that it would be easier for her to resign instead of him. Are you kidding me. She is willing to resign to help him instead of resign for her son who is in that school or for her husband.
This really showed me where her heart is at during this time. It isn't with me and it isn't with her son which really breaks my heart. In saying all this she mentions that I know its tough for you to hear these things. REALLY!!!
100% agree with Vapo, Neffer, LH and Ovr. We constantly preach about listening and validating but NOT IN THIS SITUATION. Your W is all broken up because she and OM got BUSTED. She has ZERO remorse, you really need to understand that. She is not grieving out of remorse over the damage she has caused, she is grieving that her toy has been taken away. You should give her no quarter. Detach. Leave her alone. Don't be her buddy and shoulder to cry on.
My wife was in a lot of pain the past two days with being away from him and no contact. I tried to help as it was tough to see her crying all day.
Let her cry. Let her feel pain. You go about your business. She needs to know you have ZERO sympathy for her, she is lying in a filthy cesspool of her own making.
I did not stay home from work but she called me constantly.
So she stayed home to grieve OM? Quit answering your phone.
She has been honest and she claims she feels responsible for him having to go through a divorce and for him feeling so badly. She said she could tell he was down and out and she had never seen him this way before.
Oh my heart just breaks for OM!!!! He's married and having an affair with a married woman and boning her IN SCHOOL and now might lose his family and his job over it? Oh the poor guy!! Who would think that something like that could possibly happen to a filthy lying adulterer? It doesn't seem fair! (/sarcasm)
Regarding your below comments, the bolded parts would have been valuable additions to that conversation:
I thanked her for being honest and admitting for calling him.
She also admitted that she had a strong desire to continue to talk to him and that they wouldn’t be physical at all anymore.
She is scared the OM’s wife will have both of them fired since she has all the information of them talking and having sex at school.
If she continues to hide her phone and sleep in another room then I will ask her for a divorce. have her served with no notice.
BB,
You need to give her space and time. You are not her shoulder to complain on or her ear to complain too. "She know it's hard for you to hear", but she don't care how much it hurts you. She just want what makes her to feel less guilty and people to feel sorry/sympathy for her. You need to allow her choices to take affect in her life. Back a way and allow her to deal with her own choices.
Of courses she's hurting, she's upset she got caught. If she wouldn't of gotten caught, they would still be chugging along .
Keep up the hard work.
You can´t nice her back BB. And you can´t force her back with ultimatums. She´s wayward. Get out from any MR talk. Just show her you are moving forward. No time for words. Enough talking. Just action. You need to get your respect back, there´s none of it now.
Keep getting amoafwl. Keep reading the books, keep posting here.
Detach, GAL. DB
Stay strong BB. There´s a long road ahead. Start walking. Forward.
Time and patience.
The weekend went well. I got out and played golf with friends and watched Nadal win yesterday!! We did however go to a movie as a family with our 13yr old Saturday night.
As I detach and move forward my wife gets angry that I don't love her. She then acts like a teenager trying to manipulate me by speaking of divorce. I just told her to go ahead and file and my lawyer would handle the rest.
I also asked her to continue to sleep in the other room. She mentioned she was worried about her job again and said the other couple was separated. She then back tracked and said they probably are separated. I'm not stupid and that was code for she had spoke to him sometime that day while I was playing golf. Again I told her I didn't care about his marriage and would not listen to anything that pertains to them.
Last night she went to the school to work on papers and spent 3 hours up there. She came back smelling of lotion and I knew that she had probably met him at the school or somewhere outside of school. I didn't speak to her when she got home and it drove her crazy.
I am going to continue to move forward and will not have any lengthy discussions with her about anything that pertains to her job or his family. However, I did tell her on Friday that if she continues to be aloof and secretive with her actions then she needs to get her things and move out. She can move in with her parents now that she has confessed of the affair to them.
GOOD! That's how you should be handling interactions with her. Great job!
Boundaries should be respected BB. Once you set them you can’t take them back. Be prepared to do so.
Stick to DB. No lengthy discussions but not short either. DB! No MR talks. She is very WW. She is even trying to get you into the fog. Break free, GAL. Winning cards are yours: you are DBing!
Stay strong BB. There’s a long road ahead.
Update:
Things are going well. I haven't been answering her calls and only responding with short messages. It drives her nuts and she flips out. She then demands that I answer when she calls or she said she would stop calling. I do not get angry back but play it off as being busy or my phone was on silent.
She is becoming depressed somewhat with knowing the affair is coming to an end and not being able to carry on like she did before. To continue will mean more exposure, possibly losing her job, and heartache for destroying 2 families. We live in a small community so it will spread like wildfire once it gets out. It has been pretty well contained as the OM's wife hasn't really told anyone and she has kicked him out of the house.
I know that all her feelings of guilt and shame are short lived due to working with him everyday. She will continue this roller-coaster of emotions for a long time.
Keeping our talks short and avoiding to talk about OM and his family. I try to change subject or walk away when she shares feelings she has for him. His wife tried to call her again last night and she didn't speak to her. She quickly began trying to emotionally connect with me and became needy to some degree.
I just told her she needed to speak with the woman and give her the truth. Avoiding the woman implies that she is still involved with her husband. It is a big mess. Her world is slowly crashing down and she finally admitted last night that she is going to try and stop the affair. We were in the car so I couldn't avoid her talking about the situation but it's the first time I've seen her show some remorse and rational thought about the situation.
I am not gullible enough to think this has stopped or will stop. I know that she has called him at his new home. She hasn't been to work out in the past 5 days. She mentioned going at night and I just told her to be careful because the OM's wife said she was hiring a private investigator. She quickly changed her mind about working out at night. It's almost comical how any sort of pain or further exposure will quickly turn her away from him to some degree.
I know that it is short lived and she will be back to communicating with him when she goes to work during the day.
It drives her nuts and she flips out. She then demands that I answer when she calls or she said she would stop calling. I do not get angry back but play it off as being busy or my phone was on silent.
WHAT??? Man quit coddling her! "W, I am not answering because I do not want to talk to you. I wish you would quit calling, I am not interested in talking to you while you are engaging in an affair unless it is something urgent. Now please respect my time."
I know that all her feelings of guilt and shame are short lived due to working with him everyday. She will continue this roller-coaster of emotions for a long time.
Guilt? No. Shame? No. Upset that her little fantasy has been blown? Yes.
I try to change subject or walk away when she shares feelings she has for him. His wife tried to call her again last night and she didn't speak to her. She quickly began trying to emotionally connect with me and became needy to some degree.
I just told her she needed to speak with the woman and give her the truth.
Not your problem. Let her deal with the aftermath, quit giving her advice!
Avoiding the woman implies that she is still involved with her husband.
SHE IS still involved! She admitted it to you right here:
Her world is slowly crashing down and she finally admitted last night that she is going to try and stop the affair.
You can't stop an affair that is already over. Therefore, she is STILL in an affair with him.
She mentioned going at night and I just told her to be careful because the OM's wife said she was hiring a private investigator.
NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
I know that it is short lived and she will be back to communicating with him when she goes to work during the day.
Right. So what do YOU do? Leave her alone. Detach. GAL. She has made a steaming poo of a mess for herself and you do NOT want to rescue her from it or be her shoulder to cry on.
Baller,
It’s all about respect and she has none for you right now. How can you get it back?
What is your sleeping arrangements? Have you removed her from the master bedroom?
BB,
You are going to have to start a new thread.
You are too involved with what's going on with your WW Affair. Why do you know so much about all of the interworkings? Because you are entertaining your W and her conversations on her A. You are sending her the message that you are willing to accept what's she has done. She's actively in an A, an you must let her know with your actions, that what's she's doing is not ok and you don't and won't accept her actions.
Why are you telling her about what the OM W is doing or going to do? IMO, that was a way to control your WW. If they want to be together or get together, they will find away to get together.
If you want your WW, to start CHOOOOOOOOOOSING you then you must make yourself the better option. Right now she is disrespecting you and you are allowing her too. You are being her friend and not her husband. Start respecting yourself by stop allowing her to disrespect you.
If a word of the OM and their relationship comes out of her mouth, you tell her, I don't want to hear that Sh$t! If she don't respect your wishes, get up and walk away.
Why are you driving her around?
Joejoe
yes, she is removed from the master bedroom and I've asked her to actually move out of the house which she is considering.