Heartbroken and Struggling - Part 3

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2856593

It is hard to believe that I am already on my third thread. Thank you all for your help so far. You guys are helping me so much become AMOAFWL. Thank you.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

Originally Posted by Steve85

Based on this then I retract my previous post for now. Stop all pressure and pursuit for now. Let some time go by.

D the thing is that my W said that stuff too. I have a screen shot of her online dating profile (complete with a picture!) where she talks about how she is still married but she is done with the marriage. That she can't start dating yet but wanted to see what was out there, that she will be dating in the future once the D was done. In the meantime she was enjoying my company, watching TV with me, etc. 6 weeks after she created that profile, she was back committed to the MR. It can happen, but she has to come to that realization herself. There is nothing you can do to fix it.

Steve, why do you think your wife recommitted to the MR so quickly? Is there any information there that we can glean from this?

Destroyd, no I do not think there is. Mine were a very unique set of circumstances. I've documented them many times in my own threads, and in others' threads too. The big ones were: 1) I instigated BD, not her. So I think it was caught before the point of her really being done, even though she kept insisting she was. 2) I caught her EA fairly early on. I think part of her saying "I am done" was to deflect from her EA 3) She had a difficult time throughout reconciling her faith, which she wasn't at the point of giving up, with what she was doing, both the EA and the D 4) She doesn't have a lot of close family. Her divorced parents live in FL and GA. She has no siblings. Most of her aunts, uncles and cousins are not close by and she isn't close to them anyway. Her closest friends are all members of the church. 5) We had another sitch in 2005 where I learned about DBing. So 2 days after BD this time, I remember DBing and started to employ DB tactics.

Couple all that with the fact that she is a SAHM, had been out of the work force for 14 years, and really enjoyed NOT working, and I am not sure how committed she ever was to really going out, getting a job, getting an apartment, and Ding. She was having WW yearnings (we had a sex-starved marriage for years), and thought she wanted to be free to be sexual with OM enough to give up how well she has it. In the end, I don't think she did.

If there are ANY learnings it is that it is imperative to start DBing ASAP after BD. If she ever BD'd me again, my answer would be. "Ok, how quickly can you be out?"

Thanks Steve!!

This emotional rollercoaster is exhausting. Each day I feel like I am getting stronger. I know that I can live without my W. However, each day I also have set backs where I mourn the loss of her love. Two steps forward, one step back. Somedays two steps back, one step forward. I will get through this. I will be an even better man than I am today.

I recently watched this great video - How God Can Bless a Broken Heart. I really recommend watching it.

Destroyed that's exactly how it goes. Two steps forward, one step back. Do yourself a favor and prepare, copy all records, and meet with a divorce atty. For consultation. Even if it hurts and pains you to do it. Get prepared and then deal with the emotional side of things day by day as they come. You will have moments of weakness but then you will eventually get stronger

Keep strong Des, stay calm, and find ways to keep yourself grounded.

Train yourself to be even in front of W, despite the ups and downs you may have inside.

Keep going, man

IW, thankfully I am 99% calm in front of my wife. The only time I get emotional is during some R talks. But those R talks are very rare.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

IW, thankfully I am 99% calm in front of my wife. The only time I get emotional is during some R talks. But those R talks are very rare.

I think it's ok to get emotional during those. In fact you would have to be emotionally dead inside if you didn't.

But it's important to maintain your dignity as much as you can, and take a moment if you feel yourself losing control. Neediness is not attractive to a WAS or someone in MLC. They cant support you right now, and that just compounds the issues for them.

It helps me to think of WAS as someone - a good friend maybe - who is fighting a terrible illness, and the only way to help them is to validate, eliminate all pressure, and let them work out their own issues.

Stay strong

That is a great way to view the WAS. I really feel that my wife is unhappy with life/overwhelmed with life. I truly believe that she is experiencing a crisis where she is lost. She will need to find herself, and I hope that she realizes that I love her and that she wants my love.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

That is a great way to view the WAS. I really feel that my wife is unhappy with life/overwhelmed with life. I truly believe that she is experiencing a crisis where she is lost. She will need to find herself, and I hope that she realizes that I love her and that she wants my love.

D, your last sentence sounds more selfish than loving How about "I just hope she finds true happiness, no matter what that means for us as a couple."? See the difference?

Steve, I am not sure I can be that magnanimous. If she doesn�t fight for our family, I am not at the place where I can desire her happiness I'd that means no family. Maybe I will get there someday, but I am not there today.

I am really mad at you guys right now. I decided that I needed to step up my game today, so I got my back waxed for the first time in about 18 years. I blame all of you guys for the pain I have just gone through!!

Kidding aside, I have definitely noticed a difference in my wife's actions and words the last couple of weeks. She has been asking me more about my day, calling me honey (has done this off and on since the BD, but still a difference), nice texts and genuinely seems to be in a better mood. When I got home today, she said my new haircut looked nice. I know, STOP CARING ABOUT WHAT SHE IS DOING; FOCUS ON YOU AND NOT HER; BELIEVE NOTHING THAT SHE SAY AND HALF OF WHAT SHE DOES; NO EXPECTATIONS. But, I still think there is a chance things are getting a little better. I still might just be in friend zone; this is a real possibility. But, maybe she is noticing my 180s. I will repeat, NO EXPECTATIONS.

I will take one good night of optimism. I know I am still on the biggest rollercoaster ever built.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

Steve, I am not sure I can be that magnanimous. If she doesn�t fight for our family, I am not at the place where I can desire her happiness I'd that means no family. Maybe I will get there someday, but I am not there today.

D - I understand it is tough, but this underlying attitude will only drive her further away. It is completely counter-intuitive, and really hard to do naturally. I've been there, I get it. This is why GAL is so important. It helps you work on detachment and understand only you can make you happy, and that life circumstances require you to be resilient or you will always be knocked around by the waves.

Destroyed. Heaven knows that's how sacrificial we are that were willing to be miserable just to keep the family together and work through things? I know it sounds very codependent not really about genuine love...But A man will go through Great Lengths for the love and the protection of a woman. He would die for her and his family. Can any woman here say that they would take a bullet for their husband? Again not to turn this into the Battle of the Sexes but... I know there are a lot of selfish men out there as well that are cheaters, and only think of themselves and their feelings and their situation and their own un happiness as well. But it needs to be pointed out that men are the true romantics throughout history. Someone please find me an example, muere wife took the hit for her husband, stepped in and died for him. I know they will do it for their children, because it's in their nature to give unconditional love to their children in most but not all cases. I know I'm generalizing here again and I'm not trying to play victim status, but when a man goes through divorce he loses a lot more than just his wife he loses his family his home his finances, and his sense of self worth, identity and purpose, until he rebuild it on his own and for himself.b like a man grasshopper his headship is decapitated and discarded. Funny now that I think about it and mention it when my wife and I were first dating and sleeping together, we used to kid around with one another about that with the grasshopper analogy, and she used to play please try to bite into my neck and try and decapitate me after we were done. Little did I know then 12 years later I would feel like nothing more than a sperm donor for being left for a more promising life after having S1, and working like a horse to keep the house in the family together, although coming up short on occasion because of my Tradesmen ship

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
Ephesians 5:22‭-‬25 KJV

IHC, it isn't the wife's job to take a bullet. That command was given to the husband. That doesn't make the husband more magnanimous than the wife, just that they have been given different roles.

Would it be appropriate to create a new thread on 180s that people have done? I think it could help us to explore 180s that each of us have done. For instance, I have done the following:

1. Lost weight
2. Exercising a lot
3. Cooking dinner with wife
4. Organizing more activities with my children
5. Started using cologne
6. Got my back waxed
7. Updated my wardrobe

Originally Posted by Destroyd

Would it be appropriate to create a new thread on 180s that people have done? I think it could help us to explore 180s that each of us have done. For instance, I have done the following:

1. Lost weight
2. Exercising a lot
3. Cooking dinner with wife
4. Organizing more activities with my children
5. Started using cologne
6. Got my back waxed
7. Updated my wardrobe

I believe we already have those.

Where can I find them?

I will add:

8. Learned better listening and validation skills
9. Put down all electronic devices when my wife talks to me
10. Give wife full attention when she is speaking
11. Come up with interesting news article or story every day to discuss with wife

Some days I do a great job with getting a life, but man I like just hanging out at the house. I know that I need to stop doing this, but when you work all week, it is nice just to be home.

So, I have a question. I am interested in pursuing some sex. Before I made a move, I thought that I should ask here first. It seems like things are a little better between us, but it has been such a long time. I feel like I am in the friend zone, and I would like to get out of that zone. Is there anything I can do to help with this? Other than intimacy, I feel like things are better. I could totally be fooling myself.

I know I shouldn't. I think there is a 85% chance I will be rebuffed. ARGGHH.

D,

You're not fooling yourself. Things are better but probably not in the way that you think. When you stop the pressure things seem better until you bring up a relationship talk or make a move towards sex. At that point your W will most likely remind you things haven't changed.

If you make a move and are rejected with that send you into a tailspin? If so, don't do it.

The only way out of the friend zone is to communicate to her that you will not be in a sexless marriage with no intimacy and if she is not willing to work to fix the problems in the marriage that you will file for doivorce.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

So, I have a question. I am interested in pursuing some sex. Before I made a move, I thought that I should ask here first. It seems like things are a little better between us, but it has been such a long time. I feel like I am in the friend zone, and I would like to get out of that zone. Is there anything I can do to help with this? Other than intimacy, I feel like things are better. I could totally be fooling myself.

Destroyd, you won't like hearing this because no one ever does. Your only way out of the friend zone is to walk away. Your staying and not being in the friend zone, unfortunately, is not up to you. Your walking away is up to you. So your choices are, stay and hope one day you can attract her back to let you out of the friend zone, or walk away.

If you do ask for sex, expect the worst. DB principles say not to initiate. But that is up to you

Destroyed... IMO...if you make a move and she is not in that same place, I think you will do more damage and I�m not sure it�s worth the risk. People say not to say �I love you� after BD because it only reminds your S that they don�t feel the same way. I think when LBS initiate sex, you run the risk of reminding your S they are not attracted to you. That could change in the future but it is definitely how the WS/WAS feels at BD. Remember...this is a marathon, not a sprint.

That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.

Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.

D,

Unfortunately after 27 years together most likely the only way for that to happen is she has to fear losing you. Right now she has zero incentive to put in the work to save your marriage.

If she's not already in an A right now she is vulnerable for one. She's working out and dressing young for a reason.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.

Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.

Destroyd, you asked how to get out of the friend zone. I told you that you have the choice of the status quo (IE remaining in the friend zone if she has indeed FZ'd you), or if you can't handle being in the friend zone...walking away.

In other words, whether or she friend zones you is not UP TO YOU. It is up to her. Your only choice to get out of the FZ is to walk. This is difficult for LBSs to understand. By nature of BD, after BD you are friend zoned. You don't get to decide, that is up to her, it is out of your control.

Eventually she may be reattracted to you if you COMMAND RESPECT. Or she may never will be and you are looking at the FZ for the rest of your life.

The only thing you get to control is how long you put up with the FZ. Lots of LBSs eventually get sick of it and walk.

Also, listen to LH. The fact that you will never walk is working against you. One of the best things I did in my sitch is to consult with a divorce attorney. When my W found out the fact that I could move the D for her got real!

Originally Posted by Destroyd

So, I have a question. I am interested in pursuing some sex. Before I made a move, I thought that I should ask here first. It seems like things are a little better between us, but it has been such a long time. I feel like I am in the friend zone, and I would like to get out of that zone. Is there anything I can do to help with this? Other than intimacy, I feel like things are better. I could totally be fooling myself.

How long has it been? Do you see any indications from your W that she's interested in that? I agree with the others that it's likely she'll reject you and that may just make you feel worse. But, there is a small chance she might be interested. My XW and I quit having sex after BD, then about a month later in MC she said despite everything she wouldn't mind continuing to have sex because she enjoyed it. That came as a shock to me. So we resumed, and continued until she moved out.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Originally Posted by Destroyd

So, I have a question. I am interested in pursuing some sex. Before I made a move, I thought that I should ask here first. It seems like things are a little better between us, but it has been such a long time. I feel like I am in the friend zone, and I would like to get out of that zone. Is there anything I can do to help with this? Other than intimacy, I feel like things are better. I could totally be fooling myself.

How long has it been? Do you see any indications from your W that she's interested in that? I agree with the others that it's likely she'll reject you and that may just make you feel worse. But, there is a small chance she might be interested. My XW and I quit having sex after BD, then about a month later in MC she said despite everything she wouldn't mind continuing to have sex because she enjoyed it. That came as a shock to me. So we resumed, and continued until she moved out.

Similarly, my W initially was against it. But one night late at night we were having a discussion (very early on in my sitch), and she said she wanted to. I was shocked. My reaction exactly: "REALLY?!" She then said, "no forget it." and the moment passed. When I mentioned this to a counselor she said "She probably is really horny." Obviously she had a lot of pent up sexual energy from her EA, and was willing to use me to release it. But Destroyd, be aware, if she says yes she might be physically with you, but mentally with an OM. This is why you can attach NO significance. Lots of Ws in EAs have used their husbands to "have sex with the OM", and then the LBH is flabbergasted that it didn't mean things were better.

So it is a tricky issue to deal with. Only deal with it if you are capable of handling it.

Yup. You will never be so attractive to her as when you are walking away.

Originally Posted by hoosjim

Yup. You will never be so attractive to her as when you are walking away.

Destroyd, take it from jim......he lived it!

Originally Posted by Destroyd

Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.

Doesn't seem to make sense does it? Goes against everything your logical male mind is telling you to do. But it is absolutely true.

And don't overanalyze my sitch (if you look at it all) as some sort of validation that "hanging on" or "sticking it out" is the best path to reconcilliation. My sitch and my WW, as everyone's, had unique elements/dynamics but, in the end, the bottom line is that things didn't make a hard 180 turn for the better until 1) I was completely strong, confident, independent, and committed to MYSELF and 2) I walked and she knew i was serious about it. And you will see that pattern play out over, and over, and over, and over again on these pages.

I haven't looked at your threads in depth as i've been absent for awhile and was just bored and doing a drive-by, but if I get a sec I'll check them out. Been thinking i need to try to do a bit more "paying it forward."

At any rate, listen to what the folks on here are saying-- most have been around the block a time or two-- but at the same time don't be afraid to challenge/question (respectfully, of course) and keep an open mind on SPECIFICS... but always keep in mind that the GENERAL pattern with WWs is the same in EVERY SINGLE CASE. It's like they have secret weekly meetings and blogs that none of the rest of us know about where they distribute the "standard script"... either that or like they are all subsumed/taken over by the same alien pod collective...

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by Destroyd

That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.

Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.

Destroyd, you asked how to get out of the friend zone. I told you that you have the choice of the status quo (IE remaining in the friend zone if she has indeed FZ'd you), or if you can't handle being in the friend zone...walking away.

In other words, whether or she friend zones you is not UP TO YOU. It is up to her. Your only choice to get out of the FZ is to walk. This is difficult for LBSs to understand. By nature of BD, after BD you are friend zoned. You don't get to decide, that is up to her, it is out of your control.

Eventually she may be reattracted to you if you COMMAND RESPECT. Or she may never will be and you are looking at the FZ for the rest of your life.

The only thing you get to control is how long you put up with the FZ. Lots of LBSs eventually get sick of it and walk.

Also, listen to LH. The fact that you will never walk is working against you. One of the best things I did in my sitch is to consult with a divorce attorney. When my W found out the fact that I could move the D for her got real!

Steve, I 100% agree that getting out of the friend zone is 100% up to her. But I am doing my 180s, and I certainly hope that they make her think twice about leaving me. When I look at your sitch threads, it seems like you and your W were in a similar place to me. However, you wife seemed to give lip service to wanting the marriage to last more than mine is. My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is. I think she is struggling because she knows I am a good man and a good father, but she is fighting a deep need for independence and freedom to find herself. I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by Destroyd

That is why I asked you guys. Thank you!! I needed the 2x4s to keep me from making a mistake.

Steve, I am confused by your statements. Walking away is the absolute last thing I want to do. I am hoping that my WAW eventually notices my changes and decides to recommit to the marriage. I don't want to separate or proceed with divorce. I love my wife and family so much.

Destroyd, you asked how to get out of the friend zone. I told you that you have the choice of the status quo (IE remaining in the friend zone if she has indeed FZ'd you), or if you can't handle being in the friend zone...walking away.

In other words, whether or she friend zones you is not UP TO YOU. It is up to her. Your only choice to get out of the FZ is to walk. This is difficult for LBSs to understand. By nature of BD, after BD you are friend zoned. You don't get to decide, that is up to her, it is out of your control.

Eventually she may be reattracted to you if you COMMAND RESPECT. Or she may never will be and you are looking at the FZ for the rest of your life.

The only thing you get to control is how long you put up with the FZ. Lots of LBSs eventually get sick of it and walk.

Also, listen to LH. The fact that you will never walk is working against you. One of the best things I did in my sitch is to consult with a divorce attorney. When my W found out the fact that I could move the D for her got real!

Steve, I 100% agree that getting out of the friend zone is 100% up to her. But I am doing my 180s, and I certainly hope that they make her think twice about leaving me. When I look at your sitch threads, it seems like you and your W were in a similar place to me. However, you wife seemed to give lip service to wanting the marriage to last more than mine is. My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is. I think she is struggling because she knows I am a good man and a good father, but she is fighting a deep need for independence and freedom to find herself. I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.

It took things getting real, and not just some fantasy in her head, for my W to start to wake up. That getting real was her seeing me move on. When she felt she was in full control of whether the marriage lasted or not, she kept me FZ'd, and was not willing to even consider recommitting to the MR. When she felt like she was losing control, that I might be moving to end the marriage myself, she would take steps toward me and the MR.

As long as you are solidly in place as Plan B, she will continue to pursue her fantasy.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

My W says she is working to fix our relationship, but I don't trust that she actually is.

You say you don't trust that she is actually trying which is completely understandable. What would you need to see in order to change your mindset? Just remember that you can't control her actions...you either trust her or you don't...she can earn your trust, and the question I am asking you is just that. What do you need to see to be able to trust her again? Just a question you need to answer for yourself, nobody can tell you the right answer.

I can't trust my wife as far as I can throw her right now. I'm not sure I will ever be able to. However I know that I must trust myself, my instincts, and not let my emotions dictate whether I trust her or not. She hasn't tested me yet, but I am sure it will happen eventually when some fantasy bubble bursts for her. She will say all the right things, do some right things, and will try to lure me back with some smiles and flirty behavior that eventually leads to sex...however I cannot let myself go there because when she pulls back again I will be emotionally destroyed again. Some folks can go there and not attach any emotion to the act; I am not one of them. I know this and knowledge is power. I don't even know the answer to my question I posed above...someday I will and perhaps that will be when I am ready to trust her again. Whatever happens, actions will show me which path to take, there isn't a word she can say to make me trust her going forward without the accompanying actions.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I hope that she knows that she can find herself and happiness with me.

Hope is not a plan brother. Show her that you can be happy with yourself...she won't be able to even have a chance to see happiness with you as a possibility until that happens.

Hey Des -

I can't speak for anyone else here, but any kind of emotional attachment/interaction that would occur with my W would just confuse and hurt me right now. At least W knows that and has made sure not to pursue it.

But I would caution you. "Pursue" is pursuit. If you're okay possibly getting hurt again, and I think it might sound like you would attach meaning to the physical side of things but that's just my interpretation, it could leave you in a worse state if or when she pulls away again. That's the pursuit-distancer dynamic.

Plus if she's still in the uncertain zone, a lot would be riding on it (pun intended - sorry) and it could mean nothing to her, while meaning everything to you.

I'm a relationship guy, I figuredthat out a long time ago, so it has to mean something to me. Others here aren't and I understand and respect that. Everyone is different.

Whatever you do - make sure it is only for you, and not for the R.

Stay strong

IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?

Originally Posted by Steve85

IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?

Good point, Steve. Kinda considering myself passed the old MR at this point so my viewpoint has shifted somewhat.

I meant it more inthe context of "single guys out for a good time" versus "guys that wait and are in it for the long haul"

Maybe I'm just too old school haha

Originally Posted by IronWill

Originally Posted by Steve85

IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?

Good point, Steve. Kinda considering myself passed the old MR at this point so my viewpoint has shifted somewhat.

I meant it more inthe context of "single guys out for a good time" versus "guys that wait and are in it for the long haul"

Maybe I'm just too old school haha

I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point. I am as about pro-marriage/anti-divorce as you can get!

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do what works. DBing work. And Destroyd not being willing to show her that not only will he move forward without her, but that he will thrive in doing so, will cause her to continue to keep him in her back pocket, just in case. Sometimes not having a safety net will keep someone from jumping off the platform. As long as she feels he is securely in place as the safety net, she may jump as much as she wants. (Jumping being an analogy for affairs, etc.)

Originally Posted by Steve85

I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point.

Definitely. I think the women here are very pro-marriage and loyal as well. These are fantastic characteristics in this disposable world we live in.

One of the women I dated after my D kept telling me I would mess around on her, that it was "normal" and "all men do it". I told her "no I'm not wired that way, I didn't so much as kiss another woman even as a friend in the 25 years I was dating and then married to my ex." She laughed and told me I was a liar, that there's no such thing as what I was describing. And she was 100% serious! She never did believe me, needless to say the dating didn't last long because I am not a fan of being called a liar, especially because I place so much personal value on being honest.

Anyway, that's what things have come to, a lot of people don't believe in loyalty and integrity and don't even believe it exists anymore.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by IronWill

[quote=Steve85]IW, wouldn't getting married imply that we are "relationship" guys?

Good point, Steve. Kinda considering myself passed the old MR at this point so my viewpoint has shifted somewhat.

I meant it more inthe context of "single guys out for a good time" versus "guys that wait and are in it for the long haul"

Maybe I'm just too old school haha

Quote

I think most of the male posters on this site are relationship guys, that was my point. I am as about pro-marriage/anti-divorce as you can get!

Ah, I get you now. I was a little confused - not trying to insinuate anything about anyone here or not here. Just a general feeling of malaise at the current societal "accepted norms" on my part. All good now

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Definitely. I think the women here are very pro-marriage and loyal as well. These are fantastic characteristics in this disposable world we live in.

Anyway, that's what things have come to, a lot of people don't believe in loyalty and integrity and don't even believe it exists anymore.

I very much agree, AS.
I'm really not fond of the disposable society ideals that exist today. IMO If you get married and say those words, that is a contract and a bond that you made. Make sure that you have thought about what you are going to say and what saying those words entails.

Mean it. If something isn't working, work on it. Dont just throw it away. Try. Do something different. At least then if you've done all you can possibly do and it still doesnt work out, you know you gave it your all.

Maybe it's the ex-military mindset, or maybe my way of thinking is out of date. But it would be nice to be able to trust that someone has your back no matter what.

Rant over - sorry Des

Stay strong!

Totally agree Will. Nothing worth having in life comes easy, or is maintained with zero effort. A great marriage is no exception, it requires a lot of hard work on an ongoing basis. WAS's suffer in silence for months or years and then drop the bomb without warning. Then they usually engage in an affair while still married, and often diss their own kids in the process. How is that a recipe for a better, long-lasting, loving relationship? It makes no sense. But that's their cross to bear, all we can do is conduct ourselves with dignity and respect and be the lighthouse for our kids and for others going through this and leave them to the mess they make.

I am going to be that lighthouse. I have always tried to do the right thing in my life. My kids deserve me to do the right thing for them. Because I love my wife, I will also do the right thing for her. She might not know it, but the right thing is to work on saving our marriage, build a better relationship, and maintain a loving family for our kids. We brought these three beautiful kids into this world, and they deserve for us to fight to fix this for them.

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I am going to be that lighthouse. I have always tried to do the right thing in my life. My kids deserve me to do the right thing for them. Because I love my wife, I will also do the right thing for her. She might not know it, but the right thing is to work on saving our marriage, build a better relationship, and maintain a loving family for our kids. We brought these three beautiful kids into this world, and they deserve for us to fight to fix this for them.

Just be prepared to continue to be Plan B. Read sandi's advice. Sandi clearly states that for there to be any hope of your W turning herself around there has to be a feeling of loss. Wise words..............

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I am going to be that lighthouse. I have always tried to do the right thing in my life. My kids deserve me to do the right thing for them. Because I love my wife, I will also do the right thing for her. She might not know it, but the right thing is to work on saving our marriage, build a better relationship, and maintain a loving family for our kids. We brought these three beautiful kids into this world, and they deserve for us to fight to fix this for them.

I admire your integrity, I really do. But what is the "right" thing? I understand your argument, but she might argue that she is unhappy and making her stay in the M will just make both of you AND the kids unhappy. Think about how God shows us love, he does it by giving US the choice to live how we wish. "Free will". He doesn't intervene. So one might argue that the "right" thing to do is honor your W's wishes and give her what she wants. To give her the free will to choose, without you intervening in the process. Now you can stand, that is being the lighthouse. But "She might not know it, but the right thing is to work on saving our marriage"? No, you simply cannot make that choice for her, and you can't force it on her. You've got to let her go.

^^^^^ perfectly stated!

I absolutely know that i can't make that choice for her. If I could, I would not be in this place. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think that most people who are "standing" believe the exact same thing I believe. If not, why stand?

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I absolutely know that i can't make that choice for her. If I could, I would not be in this place. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think that most people who are "standing" believe the exact same thing I believe. If not, why stand?

D - I also admire your reasons for standing. I worry that you are letting judgment seep into your viewpoint of your W, which may make things worse for you. If she feels judged it will only drive her away further.

Originally Posted by unchien

Originally Posted by Destroyd

I absolutely know that i can't make that choice for her. If I could, I would not be in this place. I agree with a lot of what you said, but I think that most people who are "standing" believe the exact same thing I believe. If not, why stand?

D - I also admire your reasons for standing. I worry that you are letting judgment seep into your viewpoint of your W, which may make things worse for you. If she feels judged it will only drive her away further.

I agree with U. Standing is admirable - but try to find ways to remove expectations from your interactions with W.

This is a hard lesson to learn, there is no quick way to do this. It takes time.

That is not to mean you have to quit believing in what you believe. By all means, do so. But your W has a different perspective than you do right now.

Stay strong!

Hello all,

I am on a mini-vacation with my family. Everything seems to be going great. My wife is using words of endearment much more often. Please keep me and my family in your prayers. I am trying to stay in the present, and not worry constantly about my future. I am trying to be the best dad and husband I can be. You all are in my prayers. I hope you all have a good weekend.

This morning my wife reached out to hold my hand this morning. She even caressed it. I couldn't believe it. She was so warm. I know that I shouldn't get my hopes up, but I will use this event as a sign to keep having faith and persevere.

In my last post, I mentioned how my wife was using a lot more words of endearment than she was previously doing. A couple days later, she was more distant again. I am using this experience as a reason to temper my expectations about holding my hand in the paragraph above. It is crazy how she is cycling in her crisis just like I am cycling in my strength and grief.

While I will temper my expectations, I will also hang onto this moment as a sign of hope.

Meanwhile, I continue to GAL more and more. I am golfing with my sons and I am hanging out with some friends more often. I am also working out 5-6 times a week. I must keep busy.

I keep doing more and more things with my children. This has been good for me and them. I have always been a good dad, but I am living with so much more purpose than I have in a the past couple of years.

Great, that's an excellent attitude! You do your thing and let her go on her journey. The hand-holding and terms of endearment, those are baby steps so that's awesome! Don't get overly excited but hey, any progress should give you hope! Keep it up!

Destroyd, I didn't get to read all of your thread yet but you have to wonder why a spouse such as your wife has to pull away rather than turn to you for support during this 'lost' phase. It sounds like you're headed in the right direction and it's admirable of you to be there for your kids.

Hello all,

I haven't posted recently, because there isn't much new in my situation. My wife and I get along 95% of the time. We seem to enjoy each other's company, and we do stuff together quite frequently. However, I am still scared that I am in the friend zone versus reconciling. My wife has days where she is quite warm and days where she is distant. For the life of me I can't tell what causes the different moods. I guess it is whatever is going through her head.

Yesterday, she was talking to me about how our lives are too busy. She just seems so overwhelmed with life. I don't know how to help her through this. I don't know if there is anything I can do. I resent that our weekends aren't much fun. I work very hard throughout the week in a stressful job with lots of responsibility. I need to have some fun on the weekends. All that she seems to care about is working out. I want her to workout, but that can't be all there is to life.

D,

Part of it is what�s on her mind and part of it is stress and part of it is hormones.

Why do you need her to have fun?

My wife has good days and bad days too. Most have here but it doesn't bother me anymore. Just like the good days don't give me any hope or expectations which they used to.

That's the great thing about this forum. I don't know where I would be without it

Why do they have these good days and bad days?

What does that mean?

Originally Posted by BenB

My wife has good days and bad days too. Most have here but it doesn't bother me anymore. Just like the good days don't give me any hope or expectations which they used to.

That's the great thing about this forum. I don't know where I would be without it

It means they are human.

Hello all,

It has been months since I have posted. I just needed to step away for my mental health. I apologize to all of the great people who were trying to help me that I just abandoned. I had to do it for me.

Well, after 13 months of standing for my marriage I finally discovered that my wife has been having an emotional affair this whole time. This explains so much. She is in love with another man. I will update you all on my story.

Destroyd, welcome back. Looking forward to your update. Sorry about the EA, but it is not surprising. Further, it isn't the end of the world. Just keep DBing, it doesn't change a thing.

Remember, my W was in an EA too. You can turn things around.

Hey D, welcome back! Seems like there are two types of LBS's- those whose spouses are in affairs, and those who don't know it yet. Hope you are doing well!

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Hey D, welcome back! Seems like there are two types of LBS's- those whose spouses are in affairs, and those who don't know it yet. Hope you are doing well!

So true. Sad. But so true.

I have merged your two threads together. Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. Also, you can change your subject line at any time within a thread.

Hello D,

I am new here and also in the early stages of my sitch. Just read your thread. It seemed like you were heading in the right direction when you last posted last year. Then suddenly the EA. It must be heartbreaking. I don't have advice, but I am sending you my prayers. I'll be reading what happened for the past 8 month once you've posted.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Seems like there are two types of LBS's- those whose spouses are in affairs, and those who don't know it yet. Hope you are doing well!

Reading this is scary to me. At the moment, there is no evidence of EA for my wife. I am scared there is one but I just don't know it yet.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worse. I guess.

In these sitches, the discovery of an affair post BD is kind of like the scariness of dihydrogen monoxide.

If told you dihydrogen monoxide was everywhere in our world, you would probably be terrified. What is this chemical with the scary sounding name? How can I avoid it. What does its presence mean for me?

That is how we are when we find out WAS is in an affair. At first it might just be the ILYBNILWY bomb. We turn our behavior around, become changed spouses, do everything we think is right. Then find out there is an OP. And we freak.

Just like if we hear that we are surrounded by the chemical dihydrogen monoxide.

The problem. Both are all in our head. If I write the chemical symbol for dihydrogen monoxide it becomes clearer: H2O

That's right, the chemical with the scary sounding name is water. And just like water being harmless (unless you are drowning of course) the A your spouse is in does not matter. At least from a DBing standpoint. You should still be GAL, 180ing, and detaching.

I am even to the point of whether there is an affair or not, you should keep the MBR. The WAS should always be the one to sleep elsewhere if they so choose. Some will argue, and I can't really argue against it, that you should also kick the cheating spouse out of the MBR. But that can be legally thorny. So my stance is, to not leave the MBR. If the cheating spouse decides to do so, then so be it. But just because you share a bed with a cheating spouse doesn't mean you agree with their actions. So I think each situation is different. Most cheating spouses out of shame and guilt will leave the MBR when asked.

So Destroyd, your W's EA is not end of the world. She was a WAS before you knew about the EA and is still one after. Just keep DBing.

Originally Posted by Steve85

that you should also kick the cheating spouse out of the MBR..

That sounds too violent. Maybe respectfully and carefully move all of their belongings out of the MBR...

Hello again all,

For over a year I have been becoming the best me I can be. I have been working out 5-6 days a week and devoting all of my efforts into being the best husband and father a man can be (I know not the best DBing, but I struggle so much with detaching). During this year, I could not understand how my wife could go from loving me to not caring about me at all. I could not understand why she wasn't responding positively to all of my changes. Well, now I know. She was devoting 100% of her efforts to try to get a guy who lives over 6 hours away to love her. "Going to unprecedented levels to gain his attention."

I feel like everything she has told me over the past year has been a lie, except for one statement she made to me in July--"You are the partner I have always wanted, but it is complicated." I know why it is complicated now. There is another Fing dude. This guy has a family and it seems as if he emotionally withdrawals from my wife. He recently did this over Christmas and hurt her. The letter to herself that I found suggests that she know this relationship will never work, he will never leave his wife and she should end it. She of course told me that it was just a fantasy and that she has ended it. Additionally, she wants me to believe that this affair had nothing to do with our marriage problems. I can't trust anything she says.

For months I have been telling myself that I would feel better about myself and my situation if there was an affair. It would explain so much, and I could quit beating myself up so much. But I can't get the affair out of my mind. Facebook is giving me a friend suggestion of a guy from my wife's hometown where I have no mutual friends with him. I have never seen anything like it. Now I am jumping to the conclusion that my wife blocked me fro seeing that he is a mutual friend, but maybe my mind is just jumping to conclusions.

I still suck at DBing. I am getting better at making myself better. I am focusing on my physical, intellectual, emotional and spiritual health. This is helping me. But now I am dieing inside about this affair.

All normal feelings Destroyd. On top of the feelings of hurt, loss, fear and hopelessness we can feel after BD, an EA or PA add betrayal and resentment to the mix.

I'm dealing with the same. Not sure if the EA is still happening, when it started, what was true....just cant trust much if anything. What you have so far is an improved self. Keep that up, for you. Many others have persevered through this to reconciliation and many others to a happy life without their WW. The path you choose is up to you and it doesnt need to be decided overnight.

Things that helped me: posting angrily or anxiously here, venting to a friend, talking to IC, telling myself its her sickness and issue, learning about chaos kid theory, and keeping the peace for the kids. I'll be honest, it still hurts daily. You may be stronger than I. Others like Steve and Hoosjim have gotten through this and they seem well off, perhaps stronger than before BD and EA.

What may be hard now is to not act out of anger towards W. Actions you take going forward, try to run by the board or think it over. Are you doing it for you, to punish her, to get revenge, etc.