Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2847953#Post2847953I have a lot to update, and I'll probably miss a lot of it. I am a mess right now with indecision, hurt, etc. Essentially, I've been playing detective for so long that it's just now hitting me.
I blew the affair up this weekend. I told her I knew, without giving out details. Then I went to sleep in the spare bedroom. When I woke up she was gone. I spent the next day sitting with my family in a catatonic state. I texted to let her know I fed the dogs and threw in that I hoped she was okay. She replied that she was okay and looking for an apartment. I asked if all this is what she wanted, and she said no, but that shes a train wreck, that I deserved better. I told her I agreed that I deserve better and will not share a wife, and that I didn't understand how someone I'd adored could cause immeasurable pain.
At this point, she started apologizing for hurting me, told me she knows her words have no meaning now, and that she doesn't recognize herself anymore. She will give me any space I need. I told her she didn't have to hide and she said she will be around however much I want. Her words have shown remorse - she owns that it was her choice, she understands if I want to divorce her but she wants to reconcile. She confessed the gory details and told me all the hard stuff. Shes spent the last few days trying to move to her apartment and has been very remorseful.
I dont know what I'm really doing right now. I'm feeling it all for the first time now that it's in the open. Her stuff is in boxes. I love her but she has to be out for a while to let me think.
Too many shes there oops. Listen, it´s about you now. You know that, right?
Take your time, take your space. She was busted but that´s all for now.
You need to stand for yourself and show her that with actions.
Be prepared for a long voyage. A short one will carry you to a similar place soon. You don´t want that.
Keep DB man, keep DB!
I texted to let her know I fed the dogs and threw in that I hoped she was okay.
I wouldn't of done that you are pursing her when it should be the other way around. She should be asking if your ok.
She replied that she was okay and looking for an apartment.
Look at her actions.
I asked if all this is what she wanted, and she said no, but that shes a train wreck, that I deserved better. I told her I agreed that I deserve better and will not share a wife, and that I didn't understand how someone I'd adored could cause immeasurable pain.
I would have said we definitely need some time apart.
At this point, she started apologizing for hurting me, told me she knows her words have no meaning now, and that she doesn't recognize herself anymore. She will give me any space I need. I told her she didn't have to hide and she said she will be around however much I want.
I would have said I definitely need some time and space to think.
Her words have shown remorse - she owns that it was her choice, she understands if I want to divorce her but she wants to reconcile. She confessed the gory details and told me all the hard stuff. Shes spent the last few days trying to move to her apartment and has been very remorseful.
Again her moving to an apartment is actions. Her words mean nothing.
I dont know what I'm really doing right now. I'm feeling it all for the first time now that it's in the open. Her stuff is in boxes. I love her but she has to be out for a while to let me think.
We are here to help. First off stop pursing her! She needs to be in the mindset of I will do whatever takes to make this work. Right now I am not buying it.
I asked if all this is what she wanted, and she said no, but that shes a train wreck, that I deserved better. I told her I agreed that I deserve better and will not share a wife, and that I didn't understand how someone I'd adored could cause immeasurable pain.
Oops. As in oops, not your name. This is not going to help you. Remember, she already BD'd you. She already had one or both feet out the door. Most WAWs want to minimize the pain their LBH endures. They know they have to hurt you to leave you, but they don't really want to devastate you. This is her language here. "I still want to leave, but I don't want to hurt you. So I am leaving because of MY mess, not because of you."
At this point, she started apologizing for hurting me, told me she knows her words have no meaning now, and that she doesn't recognize herself anymore.
This proves what I am saying.
Has she said she wants to stay? (Don't ask her that by the way. Asking her if this is what she wanted was a mistake.)
Her moving to an apartment is your answer. If she wanted to stay she'd start working to stay. She is sorry she got caught, not that she cheated. In fact, do you really think she will stop with OM?
Believe it or not oops, a lot of WAWs/WWs actually are relieved when their LBH finds out about their A. Why? Because now it is out in the open. They don't have to hide or pretend. They can now move forward with Plan A full speed ahead. But they don't want to completely destroy you in case the need to fall back on Plan B.
Instead of "Is this what you want?" to "I am looking for apartments.", how about "Oh, do you need me to help?" "Can I help you pack?" "How quickly can you be out?"
Do not let her cakewalk. Do not let her hedge. Do not let her use you. DO NOT BE PLAN B.
I told her I need her out so I can think, so Im not fighting it. You all might be right though. Im not even sure what I want.
Like I havent committed to or asked for reconciliation. I have only committed to she needs to give me space to think and that theres hope depending on what she does. So Im hedging and I hate it.
She hasnt quit her job. I havent asked. Ive maintained that I want her to move out so she has to pay rent.
So were both hedging I guess so its full of holes.
Oops
I know this is tough but you have to be careful acting out of emotions. So you tell her you want her out so she is for an apartment and then you say are you sure that’s what you want.
Now she gets an apartment because that’s what she really wants and she gets to play the victim telling everyone you threw her out.
I know it’s hard because you’re just trying to stop the pain but again when you pursue a woman who has rejected you and ripped your heart out it lowers your value in her eyes.
Back to DB and no contact unless she initiates. Then your response should be I need time to think.
You all are right. I need to tighten up. I cant decide if I should start on the paperwork for divorce though. I dont want to leave myself exposed.
If she wanted back, is it guaranteed that she'd say it unprompted if she assumes I don't want her?
Take your time oops. YOUR TIME. It may be a week or a month. Don´t contact her.
Go to DB basics man. Detach, go dark.
We all know it´s hard. But you must do it.
Keep DB
(((oops)))
Now that Im awake and warmed up I just cant help but agree that shes slow walking away.
Well, it´s gonna be her loss. You are walking your road.
Keep DB!
We have a one-off counseling appointment today. I guess I'll just have to play it cool.
Oops,
WW are master manipulators using words to get what they so desperately want. That’s why we always preach on here actions.
You are operating under the “illusion of action” where you feel you need to do something to wake her up (kicking her out/filing for divorce) to see what she’ll be missing and giving up. Unfortunately, time and space are the only thing that does that and lasts. Right now she’s on the affair high and likely not coming down anytime soon.
Respect yourself and take some time to think about what you want to do moving forward.
I want to listen to how she presents the situation, I guess. I'd already agreed to go earlier.
You have an appointment with a counselor? MC? Did you set it up or her? Who’s idea? I suggest you cancel and tell her you need time to think.
I suggest you cancel and tell her you need time to think.
Wise words.
Oops. The ball is in your court, even though I know you are hurting immensely, and you feel betrayed. They have fallen from grace. They have acted on their feelings, and reneged on their commitments. What everyone says here is right on the money. You have to let them fall even further until they are ready and decide to return they may not ever return. Their actions will show it not their words. Her encouraging you to divorce her and that she's not worthy of you sweetheart saying " I'm glad this is out in the open now and I want you to be the bad guy and initiate the divorce, so I can get an apartment and fool around and come out smelling like roses in a social aspect" Sandy has stated this here several times and it finally sunk in with me that they have to fall so far from Grace, to ever have any kind of remorse if they ever do. So let them fall all the way to the point where they're begging for you to take them back and their actions will show it and be consistent with their words. I'm starting to think that WW/WAW. It doesn't really matter which one. I know one mindset has more of a rebellious nature than the other, but either way it's a mindset of rebellion, and a quest towards self-importance self freedom and self Independence. Away from God, and what God has united as one union. They will use any justification to make it all about them. (Something else I finally recently realized. you know how most of us here have gotten the BD list of all the things wrong with us for why they're leaving? Some things are legitimate other things arent. If you own up to all of it the whole list, it validates their experience, like saying aha so you admit to it after all!! And it justifies and cement their position even further) " it's your fault that I had an affair it's your fault that I caught feelings for another person" etc etc. "it's all your fault in my life is not happy and I'm leaving." " but before I leave I'm going to make you feel so hurt and so guilty that you're going to want to leave me so I can let you down easily, and not have to do any of the leg work."
I've heard some crazy, and seen some crazy from my own WAW. "God wants me to be happy." " God wants me to explore and have new experiences in life" " God wants me to find my purpose in my self-esteem and self-importance" "God wants me to find a real man in a new relationship, but I don't want one right now because I need to find myself" Things to that effect.
I am far from perfect, and even a bit sinful, which I am trying to correct. I realized something else. Our WW's are in rebellion against their spouses, against their vows, and against their marriages, all in the name of indeoendence and freedom, which has some, but little to do with us. SO I STOPPED TAKING IT SO PERSONALLY. (I've had my manhood attacked twice already.) It took me a while to realize that God calls us to fulfil his purpose, not the other way around, that God uses us to suffer, to learn, to teach and discipline, and to redeem our souls by and learn his and Jesus's teachings not of our own accord. Worldly happiness and peace is circumstantial. (Which is what they are seeking by worldly means and desires.) It is a lack of forgiveness, patience, and commitment to resolve on their part, and they Ironicly have a principle, values, and identity issue with themselves, because they're feelings are like the wind that blows during a storm. So be the rock.
Let them fall until they hit rock bottom if they ever do? and go dark, let them be. They have to learn there are natural and spiritual consequences for their own actions, just as we do need to learn these things as well. Hope this helps you stand.
I suggest you cancel and tell her you need time to think.
Wise words.
I third that.
EDIT: Unless you are ready to hear a bunch of justifications. "As far as I was concerned we were already divorced." "I gave him chances for years and gave up and decided to move on." "It is all his fault I cheated."
This brings up a dilemma for me w.r.t. rock bottom.
I could tell work, and they could get fired. But then she can't pay rent.
Not my problem of course, but would be a real pain in a divorce and it would just make me feel and seem vindictive IMO.
Oops,
Can you answer my questions about counseling?
This brings up a dilemma for me w.r.t. rock bottom.
I could tell work, and they could get fired. But then she can't pay rent.
Not my problem of course, but would be a real pain in a divorce and it would just make me feel and seem vindictive IMO.
Not your farm...not your chickens.
Oops,
Can you answer my questions about counseling?
Yes. Its her IC but since stuff blew up she said I could come. They had supposedly been talking about the affair and when and how to confess the last couple of weeks. I dont particularly want to go, but since I said I would Im going to stick to my word. Ill just excuse myself if it seems unproductive or seems like an ambush.
Oops,
Just be prepared then to sit there and you will be AMBUSHED and have two people tell you it’s all your fault.
It would be very productive because it would be an action that shows she is going to have to work to get you back.
It would be very productive because it would be an action that shows she is going to have to work to get you back.
I agree.
The best way to show her that you’ll stand for yourself is not going there. She must be accountable for her taken course. Get your respect back. Well, it starts today.
As far as work goes, should I tell them? Things are amicable right now and that would be preferable in a divorce situation. No way Ill try to reconcile w him working here though.
My first inclination is to leave it alone for now.
As far as work goes, should I tell them? Things are amicable right now and that would be preferable in a divorce situation. No way Ill try to reconcile w him working here though.
My first inclination is to leave it alone for now.
Illusion of action. How does it help? Does telling work mean you are attached or detached?
10-4. I still dont know what I want to do. Shes trying on the surface. The betrayal might be too much for me to forgive.
Oops,
Relax and breathe. Your answer to everything should be I need time to think.
Yes oops, just take your time and do nothing.
Im starting to feel the anger and hurt now that I dont have to play detective. Oh boy.
She [censored] him on our wedding anniversary. He came in her.
How can I ever respect myself if I stay?
She (bleeped) him on our wedding anniversary. He came in her. How can I ever respect myself if I stay?
That's messed up. I imagine you're in a world of hurt, and maybe you won't forgive her. I hope you take the time/space you need to decide what to do next with confidence.
I think she does actually want to reconcile. I just don't know if I can get past the gory details.
I'll see what she does. She said in MC that she moved out because she thought that's what I wanted and that I'd never give her a chance. I stated that while I don't like it, and obviously I don't like any of this, I need time to think. She said the ball is in my court, at which point the MC told her actually the ball is in her court to understand the complete destruction her affair has caused. Of course, the stuff I did (valid) came up but we all agreed the affair is not my fault and that she made the choice. She seems to be owning it, and I own whatever I did in the sense that, should we try, I will address those things, and in fact, she agrees that I already have (180s in the background).
It went okay, she was lovey after. I stayed stoic. She slept on the couch and made me coffee this morning.
I want her, but I dont know if I should. The anger today has been off the charts but I'm keeping it to myself. Helping her haul a mattress over tonight.
I think she does actually want to reconcile. I just don't know if I can get past the gory details.
I'll see what she does. She said in MC that she moved out because she thought that's what I wanted and that I'd never give her a chance. I stated that while I don't like it, and obviously I don't like any of this, I need time to think. She said the ball is in my court, at which point the MC told her actually the ball is in her court to understand the complete destruction her affair has caused. Of course, the stuff I did (valid) came up but we all agreed the affair is not my fault and that she made the choice. She seems to be owning it, and I own whatever I did in the sense that, should we try, I will address those things, and in fact, she agrees that I already have (180s in the background).
It went okay, she was lovey after. I stayed stoic. She slept on the couch and made me coffee this morning.
I want her, but I dont know if I should. The anger today has been off the charts but I'm keeping it to myself. Helping her haul a mattress over tonight.
I think its going to take a lot more action than making you coffee, and being "lovey" from an affair reserved for two people on your anniversary. Be careful with the power game although it is in your favor. Do not be deceived. Expectation are different for different people. Although we are not mind readers. A good tree is judged by its fruit, and its actions. (That also applies to us as well. If we were made aware of our short comings in the M and refused to correct it. Our actions have to have meaning, and not our words.)
That's what i feel too. I cant really imagine what she *could* even do that would let me know shes genuine. Shes certainly owned up to it, her IC said she had been working towards confessing. I just dont trust words anymore.
Still separated, still lip service, still very little action on her part to make me feel like she wants the marriage and isn't just playing nice to keep me from exposing more or something. We talk and I see her from time to time but I don't expect much. The going story is "shes working on herself" but I can't help but think that's just an excuse/stalling. I'm pretty disappointed in it all honestly but not surprised. So I'll just keep thinking and continuing to live in the rubble where my life used to be.
Oops,
Is the OM married? If so she’s probably trying to lock him down before makes a move from or towards the marriage.
Yeah, married, OBS moved out but theyre in MC
A big part of my gut is telling me to file. I might just sit with it but I have little hope. I think her IC has been trying to pull us apart.
oops, I am concerned about your line "So I'll just keep thinking and continuing to live in the rubble where my life used to be."
Is that what AMOAFWL would do? Or would they take the bull by the horns and make their life what they want it to be.
You can't control her (that is painfully clear now) but you can control you. So go out and seize the day and make your life what you want it to be. HINT: It has nothing to do with her or anyone else other than yourself!
Her IC is just validating her feelings that she needs to do what makes her happy. If that is leaving you then that is what she needs to do.
I just read your signature. I'm confused by the timeline. Same guy EA/PA?
LH19 yeah same guy. Supposedly shes "still getting over him". Wouldnt surprise me if theyre still getting together though.
Yep. She could have gotten over him while living with you with you giving her space.
One of the biggest things I learned from this board is I will never tolerate an affair. If I’m dating it’s over. If I’m married I file. Once tolerated it just drags out and lowers your value in the cheaters eyes.
I guess this is just a lose-lose situation.
The only way I can take control of my destiny is to file, sadly that's a destiny I don't want (but might need).
oops - Gentle nudge: Why don't you want to file?
Destiny = outcome. Avoid the trap of trying to control outcomes. Filing for D is a big step, no doubt, but it is also an arbitrary line in the sand. People do reconcile after filing. Or they don't.
I'm not trying to tell you what to do, only you can decide. Just challenging you to try to view things a little bit differently and avoid thinking of "filing for D" as the 3rd rail you don't want to touch at any costs.
What are the pro's? What are the con's?
Im not at the point where I fully actually want to divorce her. So its a bluff.
Im not at the point where I fully actually want to divorce her. So its a bluff.
So she cheated on you. And you don't want to divorce her. What could she possibly do that would make you want to divorce her then? There isn't much worse than that.
She seems 0% committed to reconciliation and I think she's just cakewalking. She says she doesnt want the marriage right now but doesnt want to end it because she might have regrets. Shes still acting like this is something that happened to her and not something she chose to do. Shes still "in the fog" of the OM.
I deserve better than this and her. She never gave me a chance. Im afraid of life without her, but I'm thinking that is my best option and it's time for me to start recovering without her.
I know (even if I dont feel it) that this can't work unless shes fully committed. She still blames me. Even though I love her, this is done.
oops, yep. So the question is how much longer will you hang on hoping from crumbs to fall from her and OM's table?
You can't control her, but you can control how long you sit as Plan B. Take her safety net away, she may just decide that she needs to fall into it.
Go on with DB basics Oops. Detach and keep on getting into amoafwl.
I´m sorry man. But you have the tools for a proper DB. Do it. It´s all about you from now on.
Stay strong there my friend.
Tough times right now. Most of today was okay. I worked out and got a little bit of work done. I'm eating healthy.
But I'm sitting here at work with tears welling up in my eyes and considering going to the bathroom to cry. I just cant believe it still. I need to move on and live, I know, but this will never fully heal. I was always such a miserable person before, I don't want to go back to that. I want to be whole. I've never been whole before. I don't even know what it feels like.
I miss my best friend. I miss my so-called companion for life. I know I have to carry on, I sort of know how, but the emotions are honestly crushing me. I'm trying to go through the motions and practice what I preach, but I don't look forward to anything from the other side. Dating and pretending not to be boring and average is unappealing to me. I miss having someone I could just sit on the couch with.
I know she and I are done. I'm really having trouble accepting it and fear the wounds will keep me messed up forever. I have so much trauma and bad stuff in my brain that's been with me for life. I can't go back to that. I don't want to be a cloud of negativity. I don't want to be without a wife I can trust.
No point to this post, just gushing so I don't IRL.
oops, you got this man! Your next R (whether with her or someone new) is going to be awesome!!
I also had a strong realization on Sunday after a friend told me that if I cant even trust myself, how can he or others depend on me? Made me think. I believe that feelings follow actions, not the other way around. I started my marriage without the runaway feelings, chose to love her, and built those feelings by doing so. They are rock solid feelings for her. I built them. I feel them fully. I believe she could do the same if she made the choice, fully.
I realized that even though I don't love myself right now, I need to apply the same logic. I need to take the actions to love myself, and the feelings will follow. It got me back on the GAL trajectory for the last few days.
Thanks Steve. I hope so. It's up to me to do my part.
I also had a strong realization on Sunday after a friend told me that if I cant even trust myself, how can he or others depend on me? Made me think. I believe that feelings follow actions, not the other way around. I started my marriage without the runaway feelings, chose to love her, and built those feelings by doing so. They are rock solid feelings for her. I built them. I feel them fully. I believe she could do the same if she made the choice, fully.
I realized that even though I don't love myself right now, I need to apply the same logic. I need to take the actions to love myself, and the feelings will follow. It got me back on the GAL trajectory for the last few days.
There's a lot of Truth in what you said oops13. It took me nearly a year to realize this and put some of it into actual action. The Feelings Will Follow the actions when you take proper necessary actions to better yourself in your life or at least start in small increments you will feel empowered. When you feel weak and you want the same relationship with the same person, in which you know that failed whether it be for your reasons and your guilt or theirs. You know you are weak and going on what you know is in your comfort zone due to complacency. When you reach out of your comfort zone you will see change gradually. Some People Change faster than others. I only change as fast as my actions and desire to change when I stop making excuses for myself and everything and everyone around me. But it will Empower you with or without your W. We all want what we had but the problem is what we had wasn't working. So whether it is temporary quits or permanent quits it's still our job to keep moving forward no matter what. I've been carrying a lot of guilt around for the last 11 months. I made myself think about it everyday until I learned from it. I still haven't learned fully from it, because my mind has to grasp the solution to change and then put it into action and then once the actions take place and become habits it becomes internalized. But I will piece by piece, habit by habit, day by day. At first all the GAL activities feel like filler because there's a big gaping hole in us and we're doing without someone that we were used to having as companion accompanying us. After a while we make it our own again and we internalize it. Slowly everyday we make a new change from a new apartment to a new setting environments Hobby Habit friends, whatever it's going to be a new part of us you grows like a budding tree. Leave the old dead branches where they are on the ground. They are there for a reason and they're in the past for a reason. Our spouses will become different people and so will we. When people can't grow together in a relationship this is what happens whether we realize it's happening or not. We will all be okay regardless of what happens. Just as they have to find themselves independently we have to rediscover ourselves as as well. I think that a whole person can say when their independence living their best self in their best life. The whole person can say to another person that they are complementary to them and not codependent. A whole person is willing to say what they are willing to accept into their life and their world and their frame, and say no to a person if they're not willing to accept certain things. Then there's compromise which is a whole nother ball game. Just don't ever bargain yourself or your principles away and remember principles before passion. People don't have to like my ideologies are my beliefs and it's their right to do so. I can always agree to disagree but that's as far as it goes. They are welcome to stay or they're welcome to leave whether its the STBXW, family, friends, or future R's. Even though I hate it I would rather be alone compromise my principles again for anyone, because they bear the threat of leaving me and what was familiar.
I noticed something about GAL. When you start making it about yourself and you start taking care of yourself your finances your home your lifestyle. You internalize It. It becomes a part of you again and not something you share it with out of complacency or co dependency. It feels good because the actions indicate that you are building and you are not breaking down. it really is operating like you're single again and there is something exciting about it yeah there are some sad and lonely times, but this is when growth occurs. I know this sounds counterintuitive but whatever is past is past let it fail. It failed for a reason as long as he realized what those reasons were improved from them. You will grow from this and you will get stronger.
Oops, this is some miserable stuff to go through, and you are going to cry and feel down, that's part of the recovery process. Try to hold it together as best you can! You can't see it right now but you've got a great future ahead waiting for you. This pain is temporary. I remember people telling me that and it really didn't help much at the time because the pain was so excruciating. But they were right, it did pass and I did find extreme happiness on the other side. So hang onto hope!
Oops, just read what DnJ has posted:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2860248#Post2860248All newbies should read that. DnJ is one of the brightest DB lighthouses.
A quick update. I basically threw in the towel shortly after my latest post, and without going into detail that would be too identifiable, there was an event that essentially let her know that I was done. This resulted in her turning around and fighting for the marriage. There have been ups and downs, of course, and I wouldn't say she's fully committed, but she's been moving forward. We're in MC now.
I am anything but relieved though. I don't know if I even want the marriage myself. I don't trust her at all, naturally. I don't have any idea who she really is.
I've been conflicted on posting for anonymity's sake and because I haven't exactly been DB'ing. I GAL and was vulnerable if anything. I'm fine with any outcome if that doesn't work though.
Continue to post. I have experience with half hearted reconciliation.
Continue to post. I have experience with half hearted reconciliation.
Yeah. That whole idea has me daydreaming about being done with it all. I don't want to deal with that, and that's my default assumption unless proven otherwise.
I can understand how you feel. I have kids so that’s why I did it. If I didn’t I probably would have walked away.
This is really good advice IHCLACS. I've taken a lot on board myself for my situation too.
Internalising all the positive steps you're taking towards yourself, and making your brain turn that into learned behavior, is crucial.
Growth will then follow, just at different speeds for each person.
Oops, reconciling/ piecing is very hard work! So hang in there. Congrats on getting a shot at recon. Please do keep posting, it'll help you focus on what you should do, and it'll help others here understand the difficulties people go through in recon.
Just dropping in to note that we're still in MC. I'm mostly successfully detached lately and believe I'll be fine either way. My stress and anxiety are low.
There hasn't been a lot to even post about yet. It's like I'm waiting to see what she really does, still. I've been reading a lot.