Divorcebusting.com
On 5/26....

I got the following via txt message early Sunday morning...

"I think we need to talk. I believe we have reached the end of our marriage. It was a good run, but I think we both know it's time to move on. Please know that I love you. Don't be angry. It will do no one any good. We have kids to think about. Let's figure out a plan that works best so no lawyers are involved because they will steal the money. I will obviously need to find a real job but please help me in this process. Don't make me the enemy. We aren't each other enemies. Let's think about the kids and what is best all around. I'm not out to hurt you or try to take everything. It's not in my nature to be that way. I would like to find an apartment nearby so we can make the transition for the kids as smooth as possible. I think we will all be happier in the long run."

Some context to the situation...we've been married 20+ years, 3 kids (20, 12, 8 yo), she is primarily a homemaker working PT 1-2hrs/wk, I earn 99% household income and pay all bills. I have good relationship with the kids. I help my oldest with college etc. My 12 yo is Into sports and I take her to practice and go to games. My 8yo is bright and adventurous, but has ADHD and I've been able to pay for tutoring etc. so he is upto grade lvl in all areas. The kids go to a private elementary and I pay for it all. We shared responsibility for getting the kids ready for school and homework etc. over the years.

Latest txt message from her following a heart to heart conversation yesterday morning....

"The man from Starbucks was of course very flattering in a time that I was extremely vulnerable but I realized that isn't what I want either. I need to grow and rediscover myself. It's a personal journey"....and

"What if you just move into my mom's room for now or vice versa. We can uncouple peacefully and gently. I know how confusing this must feel. This is my independence and self realizations that you are witnessing. It's not an attack on you. By staying under one roof as a non couple it will give more time to sort out financial stuff better and allow for my job process. I think this will be the best way for now."

Yesterday she fixed up our guest BR ("mom's room") and plans to stay in the house until she has a FT job and can live "independant". Some more backstory...she just lost her mom, our nephews fiancee whom she was somewhat close too was murdered and she attended the trial, the husband of a couple we know just passed away leaving the wife with nothing and two kids to raise.

She has stated she is not out to hurt me but suggested that I should move out maybe, I have no intention to do so. She even said that my 20 and 12 yo said me moving out is good idea, but we haven't told the 12 yo yet and the 20 yo doesn't have a strong opinion either way, but has said she doesn't want any "strange" men in the house. My wife also mentioned that she knows that she is entitled to 40% of what I make, but doesn't want to hurt me or the kids....

Some advice would greatly be appreciated, please!
I am posting Cadet's Welcome Thread for you. Please read all of the homework.


Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Me-65, D32,S31
First off, sorry you are here - this forum is very helpful so keep posting. Definitely read the Welcome Thread, especially the ones on Sandi's 37 rules, Detachment, and Validation. And try to discreetly get a copy of DR and hide it from your W.

Don't initiate any R talks, your W sounds very determined with her decision right now. It will only reinforce her mindset.

I would say absolutely do not move out. Good instinct.

In addition to the life events you mentioned, are there issues between you and your W that may have contributed to her wanting to walk away?
Im going to wait until more info unfolds on history here. But That BD was a very clear, concide, direct AND. VERY THROUGHLY SCRIPTED DELIVERENCE. Rex. DO NOT MOVE OYT OF THE MBR OR MARITAL HOME! Listen to their issues with you, and calmly validate them, apologize once and ONLY ONCE. They are the ones the want out, your W can move to any other part of the house right now, or move out. Got it? You have to understand based on her statements she's trying to push you out of her life, is staging for it, and is trying to guilt, shame, and voluntarily have you leave for " her "space, self discovery, and independence" we have all heard pretty much the exact words and variance of them here. It is scripted and they don't even realize it. She is trying to make the transition as convenient and fluid as possible, and trying not to be facetious or vindictive in the process but is letting you know that she's entitled to some of your money, and is using it as leverage She does not respect you as a man right now. She is most likely going to cry kick and scream to fulfil her plan. Don't stand in her way but stand firm. There may also be the possibility of an EA/PA going on.Do not leave the MBR for legal reasons having to do with your children, protect them, your assets, and your rights, and claims to the marital home. DO NOT LET HER PUSH YOU OUT. IF SHE WANTS OUT SHE CAN LEAVE the MBR or the Marital home.
What is EA/PA? Sorry I'm new.

Do I assume that EA means extramartial affair?

On that note...should I simply ask her if there is someone else? She'll likely lie about it, but it's been about a month since that conversation.
Originally Posted by Rex11031
What is EA/PA? Sorry I'm new.

Do I assume that EA means extramartial affair?

On that note...should I simply ask her if there is someone else? She'll likely lie about it, but it's been about a month since that conversation.

Yes that is what it means.

No do not ask her.
Regarding marital issues between she and I, we have had issues about who is responsible for what around the house and since I earn 99% $ I've sometimes made comments that I shouldn't have. We both have made accusations (EA) in the past, but that was more to do with not paying attention to each other and not being a couple. More recently (past 5 years) her mother has been in declining and she passed this spring. During those 5 years it was stressful for both of us. She was always tired and had no time for the kids or I. Obviously, the kids and I didn't appreciate that much, which is why the kids are not to happy with her.
Emotional Affair/ Physical Affair/Imaginary Affair (And yes it has happened.) EA/PA/IA. There should be a link to all acrynoms in link Cadet provided you with. Start paying close attention to W's behaviors more than her words. But don't make yourself crazy over it. Just document it or make a mental note of it. Patterns and behaviors are going to change, and ur comes with the territory of her being done with the M. But will provide you clues as to if you are intentionally or unintentionally being manipulated to help your WAW to move into the direction SHE WANTS YOU TO MOVE IN WHICH ONLY WILL BENEFIT HER AWAY from the M. Don't help her with it but don't stand in her way either, give lots and lots if space. You may possibly start seeing a lot of selfishness on her part, or not... just trying to give you a heads up of what to anticipate it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Keep posting on the behaviors, and also make us aware of what things you can change that you contributed to the downfall of the marriage


Sounds like she is not too happy. Period - at least right now.

She is likely going through the stages of grief from the passing of her mother.

You can't FIX that - just give her time and space.
It sounds like she's communicating calmly and respectfully and that she's really not happy. I don't see any attempts on her part to shame you or to cause you feel guilt. It's also reasonable that she's done some research as to her options. I second the advice not to move out - it's not okay she's consulting your kids about this, but you can't do anything about that. If she wants to separate, she can and should do the moving out and the leg work of arranging it all.

I think the best thing to do is give her as much space as you can. You can stop doing husbandly-type things for her, given that she doesn't want to be your wife - and you can do that peacefully. She may well be in an affair, but it really isn't a given. I BD'd my husband and there was no-one else for me - I just didn't want the marriage any longer as it stood. Yes, watch her behaviour - but be careful your assumptions don't make her into an enemy when the facts might be simpler - she's unhappy and is trying to make herself happy.
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
Yes, watch her behaviour - but be careful your assumptions don't make her into an enemy when the facts might be simpler - she's unhappy and is trying to make herself happy.
This is absolute gold and stated so simply.
Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by AlisonUK
Yes, watch her behaviour - but be careful your assumptions don't make her into an enemy when the facts might be simpler - she's unhappy and is trying to make herself happy.
This is absolute gold and stated so simply.


I completely understand her being unhappy, we actually have lost 4 family members in the last 2 years. Additionally, the kids are now self sufficient mostly and she sees that and feels unneeded at times. If fact she and the kids have been in more squabbles lately. Partly because she is trying to get them to do more around the house and they resist. The most recent funeral we attended for our brother-in-law (6/18) she seemed to be warming to me, we sat together at dinner and she seem almost wanting to reconcile by smiling and joking with me. Is that just me reading her wrong?
Originally Posted by Rex11031
The most recent funeral we attended for our brother-in-law (6/18) she seemed to be warming to me, we sat together at dinner and she seem almost wanting to reconcile by smiling and joking with me. Is that just me reading her wrong?

Good DB lesson here - you will see often: "Believe none of what they say, and half of what they do"

I spin that into: "Don't waste your time interpreting any of what they say, and only interpret that which they do consistently."

In other words... don't bother reading your W's actions at dinner. She could be warming up. She could be trying to let you down easier. She could be happy because her favorite sports team won a game earlier that day. Who knows.

So far, she has been incredibly consistent in expressing her desire to leave.
Originally Posted by IHCLACS
Emotional Affair/ Physical Affair/Imaginary Affair (And yes it has happened.) EA/PA/IA. There should be a link to all acrynoms in link Cadet provided you with. Start paying close attention to W's behaviors more than her words. But don't make yourself crazy over it. Just document it or make a mental note of it. Patterns and behaviors are going to change, and ur comes with the territory of her being done with the M. But will provide you clues as to if you are intentionally or unintentionally being manipulated to help your WAW to move into the direction SHE WANTS YOU TO MOVE IN WHICH ONLY WILL BENEFIT HER AWAY from the M. Don't help her with it but don't stand in her way either, give lots and lots if space. You may possibly start seeing a lot of selfishness on her part, or not... just trying to give you a heads up of what to anticipate it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better. Keep posting on the behaviors, and also make us aware of what things you can change that you contributed to the downfall of the marriage




Another part of the story...first, some background, so about 8 years ago my wife introduced me to a musician who played small venues (dinner and music type places) and house concerts. This musician was formerly a legit rock star playing with numerous bands and has a few CDs out of his own. He is does alternative self help stuff like astrology readings etc. to help followers and provide some levity at same time. He also is a recovering alcoholic and is open about it. He is about 10-12 years older than my STBX and I. He has been divorced several times most likely due to being on the road so much. Over time we (all 3 of us) have become friends in general terms. I even had him do a few house concerts at my home. Regarding my wife, back about 8-10 years ago she a had bout with depression a d drinking where she'day around most of the day and drink 1/2 of red wine in afternoon/evening until she'd fall asleep on the couch by 8pm. This lasted for 12-16 months. Eventually she kicked the habit on her own but had support from me and our musician friend. More recently, since STBX asked for a separation, she has made two trips to visit him with our kids (but she has never even suggested that I go). She states that the purpose is so that his kids can have playmates since he lives in a remote area a d due to the fact he shares custody of kids, his kids are 4 & 8 when my kids are 8, 12 & 20.

Now to the point...I suspect she has had an EA, likely not PA, with our musician friend for many years. I'm not sure of the amount of contact (texting or calling) happening, likely not daily due to fact he lives 2.5 hours away and travels a good bit. Additionally, he plans to move to CONN soon to be closer to his kids primary home. So this situation may get interesting. Am I crazy in think like this?

When I'm not happy about it I'm not going to go nuts over it. My biggest concern is my wife making it seem that our musician friend is a 2nd dad to my kids...I wish to not confuse my kids with that BS. I'm their dad, no one else.
Hey Rex, welcome to the forums!

Originally Posted by Rex11031

"I think we need to talk. I believe we have reached the end of our marriage. It was a good run, but I think we both know it's time to move on. Please know that I love you. Don't be angry. It will do no one any good. We have kids to think about. Let's figure out a plan that works best so no lawyers are involved because they will steal the money. I will obviously need to find a real job but please help me in this process. Don't make me the enemy. We aren't each other enemies. Let's think about the kids and what is best all around. I'm not out to hurt you or try to take everything. It's not in my nature to be that way. I would like to find an apartment nearby so we can make the transition for the kids as smooth as possible. I think we will all be happier in the long run."


OK so that's a fairly classic BD (Bomb Drop). Your general attitude should be "I don't want divorce, I would rather you stay here and work on the M, but if moving out is what you want I will not stand in your way." Here's the thing though, do not do any of the work for her. Don't help her find a place, don't fund her separation activities, don't help her move, don't even move out of the bedroom. Make her do ALL the work. If she wants to go get an apartment then fine, she can get a job and get an apartment. DON'T MAKE THIS EASY ON HER. If you try to help her with this she will lose what little respect she may still have for you.

Quote
"The man from Starbucks was of course very flattering in a time that I was extremely vulnerable but I realized that isn't what I want either. I need to grow and rediscover myself. It's a personal journey"


Well at least you know why she wants to move out. To open the door to more affairs.

Quote
"What if you just move into my mom's room for now or vice versa. We can uncouple peacefully and gently. I know how confusing this must feel. This is my independence and self realizations that you are witnessing. It's not an attack on you. By staying under one roof as a non couple it will give more time to sort out financial stuff better and allow for my job process. I think this will be the best way for now."


What a load of WAS drivel. "uncouple peacefully and gently" LOL! Look, don't believe the smoke screen. She wants to set all the terms and she wants you to buy into it. Don't. Again just reiterate to her that it's not what you want, but if that's what she wants then fine she is free to proceed and you will not stop her. BUT YOU ARE NOT MOVING OUT OF THE BEDROOM OR THE HOUSE, AND YOU ARE NOT FUNDING HER ANTICS, PERIOD. Stand your ground on that.

Quote
Yesterday she fixed up our guest BR ("mom's room") and plans to stay in the house until she has a FT job and can live "independant".


Fine, don't stand in her way if that's what she wants.

Quote
She has stated she is not out to hurt me but suggested that I should move out maybe, I have no intention to do so.


ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!! One of the other guys here moved out under the agreement with his W that it was temporary, he was hoping to appease his wife. Guess what she did, she immediately changed the locks. He tried to move back in and couldn't get in the house. He was later told by the court that since he VOLUNTARILY moved out that he gave up his rights to live there. Don't move out!

Quote
She even said that my 20 and 12 yo said me moving out is good idea


She's lying. Get used to that, she may have never lied to you before but she is not who she used to be. You're now married to a lying cheater. She may go back to her old self some day, but for now you need to understand what you are up against.

Quote
but has said she doesn't want any "strange" men in the house.


I would be crystal clear with her that that will NOT happen. If she wants to have affairs she needs to be gone, period.
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Now to the point...I suspect she has had an EA, likely not PA, with our musician friend for many years.


You are probably right then.

Quote
My biggest concern is my wife making it seem that our musician friend is a 2nd dad to my kids...I wish to not confuse my kids with that BS. I'm their dad, no one else.


Assuming you are active in your kids' lives then this will never be an issue. They know who "dad" is. And if you haven't been active in their lives, well now is your chance to do a 180 on that.
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Now to the point...I suspect she has had an EA, likely not PA, with our musician friend for many years.


You are probably right then.

Quote
My biggest concern is my wife making it seem that our musician friend is a 2nd dad to my kids...I wish to not confuse my kids with that BS. I'm their dad, no one else.


Assuming you are active in your kids' lives then this will never be an issue. They know who "dad" is. And if you haven't been active in their lives, well now is your chance to do a 180 on that.


My kids love me, more so than her and they have said so even before the BD, that is because I care and do my best to be active in their daily lives. For instance, recently the STBX and daughter (12) was out shopping and daughter wanted some lunch...STBX refused to pay and told daughter to pay for it, which upset my daughter....she said to me "who does that to their kid"
Originally Posted by Rex11031
which upset my daughter....she said to me "who does that to their kid"

Maybe your wife had other thoughts, (maybe it was too expensive or she did not have the money, who knows)
your job is to not get in the way of your kids and their mother.
Regarding "YOU ARE NOT FUNDING HER ANTICS, PERIOD. Stand your ground on that."

So STBX is a housewife primarily, works 1-2hrs week just for something to do. I provide everything...car, home, insurance, spending money etc. Since her mom's passing this spring she has received an inheritance ($30k in May and $50k due around November - I know this because her sister told me (not my STBX) and because she owes me for her inheritance tax ($3600)). She has no willingness to share costs on anything except a meal now and then. She did demand that home improvements be done about 2 weeks ago and we go 50/50, but has gone away with no more talk of it. I give her $1k monthly for misc. spending. I usually get all groceries and household items.

Should I stop providing her $1k monthly?
I would, but I don’t know much about it

Originally Posted by Rex11031
Regarding "YOU ARE NOT FUNDING HER ANTICS, PERIOD. Stand your ground on that."

So STBX is a housewife primarily, works 1-2hrs week just for something to do. I provide everything...car, home, insurance, spending money etc. Since her mom's passing this spring she has received an inheritance ($30k in May and $50k due around November - I know this because her sister told me (not my STBX) and because she owes me for her inheritance tax ($3600)). She has no willingness to share costs on anything except a meal now and then. She did demand that home improvements be done about 2 weeks ago and we go 50/50, but has gone away with no more talk of it. I give her $1k monthly for misc. spending. I usually get all groceries and household items.

Should I stop providing her $1k monthly?
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Regarding "YOU ARE NOT FUNDING HER ANTICS, PERIOD. Stand your ground on that."

So STBX is a housewife primarily, works 1-2hrs week just for something to do. I provide everything...car, home, insurance, spending money etc. Since her mom's passing this spring she has received an inheritance ($30k in May and $50k due around November - I know this because her sister told me (not my STBX) and because she owes me for her inheritance tax ($3600)). She has no willingness to share costs on anything except a meal now and then. She did demand that home improvements be done about 2 weeks ago and we go 50/50, but has gone away with no more talk of it. I give her $1k monthly for misc. spending. I usually get all groceries and household items.

Should I stop providing her $1k monthly?

I would consult a lawyer before I did anything.
Normally inheritance is NOT marital property unless it is co-mingled with marital funds.
Whatever you do now will be the basis of what could happen in the future.
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Regarding "YOU ARE NOT FUNDING HER ANTICS, PERIOD. Stand your ground on that."

So STBX is a housewife primarily, works 1-2hrs week just for something to do. I provide everything...car, home, insurance, spending money etc. Since her mom's passing this spring she has received an inheritance ($30k in May and $50k due around November - I know this because her sister told me (not my STBX) and because she owes me for her inheritance tax ($3600)). She has no willingness to share costs on anything except a meal now and then. She did demand that home improvements be done about 2 weeks ago and we go 50/50, but has gone away with no more talk of it. I give her $1k monthly for misc. spending. I usually get all groceries and household items.

Should I stop providing her $1k monthly?


For now I would keep giving her the stipend. What I meant by not funding her antics is not paying for her to have her own place, or paying for her GGW (girls gone wild) drinking parties or trips or whatever. If you've been giving her a stipend then I would continue to do so unless things deteriorate to the point where you want her gone. If it gets to that point then like Cadet said, lawyer up first.

Also if she talks about getting a new car or any big ticket item like that, tell her you don't feel comfortable making any big purchases given the current status of your marriage. If she ends up leaving you are both going to be on shaky financial footing for a long time, so start preparing yourself now. This is the one thing I wish I had prepared myself for a little better. I make a good income and just assumed it wouldn't be an issue, but I went from spending whatever I wanted to having to place myself on a budget and keep close tabs on it. I amassed a lot of debt in a short amount of time before finally getting a handle on things.
Originally Posted by Cadet
A post that Sandi2 has put up - thanks

Healthy Detachment...(Posted by DBer Peanut originally)

I. Detachment

Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.

Attached, we take personally ALL that is said, not said, done and not done.

When our ego gets wounded, we are more inclined to do/say things that undermine our goals.

When we are Detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love.

Met with love, we are in a position to diffuse the situation, and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals.

On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.

Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not indifference. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’

It is the natural acceptance that we alone are responsible for how we act. We cannot control another person, but we can control how we respond to them.

We are responsible for our own actions (no one else is).

We are responsible for our own happiness. (No one else is)


PART II Detachment (found around here)

Detachment is the:

* Ability to allow S the freedom to be him/herself.

* Holding back from the need to rescue, save or fix S from being sick, dysfunctional or irrational.

* Giving S "the space" to be him/herself.

* Disengaging from an over-enmeshed or dependent relationship with S.

* Accepting that I cannot change or control S and it was never my "duty/job" to do so.

* Establishing of emotional boundaries between me and S, so that both of us might be able to develop our own sense of autonomy and independence.

* Process by which I am free to feel my own feelings when I see S falter and fail and not to feel responsible for his/her failure, faltering or learning.

* Ability to maintain an emotional bond of love, concern and caring, without the negative results of rescuing, enabling, fixing, demanind or controlling.

* Placing of all things in life into a healthy, rational perspective. (=Balance is a piece of detachment).

* Ability to exercise emotional self-protection and prevention so as not to hang on beyond a reasonable and rational point.

* Ability to let people I love and care for accept personal responsibility for their own actions and to NOT bail them out when their actions lead to failure or trouble for them.

* Ability to allow S to be who he/she "really is" rather than who I "want him/her to be."

IF & WHEN THESE ^^^ FACTORS ARE ADDRESSED, -

We could have a great friendship, or a great marriage. And those are treasures.



Cadet- Is detachment simply put "I don't give a [censored]!", I'm kinda struggling right now between resentment and detachment. I just realized my STBX likely is having an EA with someone I considered a friend. STBX stated she wants "independence and freedom" and said "she believes our marriage is at an end". She also said "if you love me then let me go" and that "her love for me is agape love". WTF?
Cadet- One more question...am I dealing with WAS or MLC situation...for record my STBX takes Zoloft.
Also, should I continue wearing my wedding ring? By doing so does that signal to her that I'm clinging on to the past? Does not wearing it indicate that I'm moving on? Thoughts?
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Also, should I continue wearing my wedding ring? By doing so does that signal to her that I'm clinging on to the past? Does not wearing it indicate that I'm moving on? Thoughts?


I took mine off, once I noticed my WAW did as well. We're in the same camp, I'm also about six weeks out from BD, and my wife separated last week.

It hurt, but what could I do? It made me feel like a fool in denial.
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Cadet- One more question...am I dealing with WAS or MLC situation...for record my STBX takes Zoloft.

It doesn't matter - your actions are the same.
Maybe it is both.
Sorry to hear it...honestly, the idea of a separation/divorce was sometimes in my head, but the BD was crushing.
Question...trying to follow the DB rules while living in same house but in separate bedrooms, I'm currently renovating a bathroom and I'm nearly done. She said today "Upstairs bathroom is looking good ...I can help you pick out mirror and lighting". I very much want to say "[censored] off!", but that doesn't align with the DB Rules....so what do I say?
Definition of Agape Love.

Agape is universal love, such as the love for strangers, nature, or God. Unlike storge, it does not depend on filiation or familiarity. Also called charity by Christian thinkers, agape can be said to encompass the modern concept of altruism, defined as unselfish concern for the welfare of others. Recent studies link altruism with a number of benefits. In the short term, altruism leaves us with a euphoric feeling—the so-called ‘helper’s high’. In the longer term, it is associated with better mental and physical health, as well as longevity. At a social level, altruism serves as a signal of cooperative intentions, and also of resource availability and so of mating or partnering potential. It also opens up a debt account, encouraging beneficiaries to reciprocate with gifts and favours that may be of much greater value to us than those with which we feel able to part. More generally, altruism, or agape, helps to build and maintain the psychological, social, and, indeed, environmental fabric that shields, sustains, and enriches us. Given the increasing anger and division in our society, and the state of our planet, we could all do with quite a bit more agape.
Originally Posted by Rex11031
Question...trying to follow the DB rules while living in same house but in separate bedrooms, I'm currently renovating a bathroom and I'm nearly done. She said today "Upstairs bathroom is looking good ...I can help you pick out mirror and lighting". I very much want to say "[censored] off!", but that doesn't align with the DB Rules....so what do I say?


Tempting..... She just ripped your heart out your a$$holre in a very legalistic, matter of fact manner from her BD email, now she wants to "play house" with you still? I would question her motif, and if her picking out a bathroom design benefits her for unobvious reasons.

The vets here can correct me with a 2×4 but I would just reply.

W: "Upstairs bathroom is looking good ...I can help you pick out mirror and lighting".

H: "That is something a Wife does with her Husband, and since you fired me as your Husband.. No.."

Or the shorter version. H: "Thanks but I already decided."

Remember its your house too. Don't let her cake eat.
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