Hello. I don’t know where to start
Wife and I just moved to a new city less than 3 months ago. It’s her hometown in which she has many bad memories. We had to move here because our autistic son needed a better school system. About three weeks ago she had been stonewalling me and I couldn’t figure it out so I kept asking her to which she would reply “ I’m fine not everything is about you”. Because I had asked if she was upset at me. A day or two later after continued stonewalling I asked again to which she spat these words at me “I I JUST WANT YOU TO LEAVE ME ALONE! I love you because we have been through so much together but I’m not in love with you any more and I haven’t been for about 5 years!
A little history
Met in sept of 09
She moved in 3 days later
She was pregnant 3 months later
Bought our first house 4 months after finding out she was pregnant.
Got married about 8 months after our son was born
Two years later we found out he was autistic
That same month I was diagnosed with brain cancer
One month after brain surgery she had to have her gallbladder removed
Our whole marriage we have been pretty poor. We have dealt with more than most but we have weathered the storms
We have been together 10 years now and she drops this on me when our house is still in the midst of unpacking
I waited 3 days and asked her if she wanted a divorce she said “I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight” and then stormed off
Since then she will be friendly to me one second cold shoulder the next. She refuses to say I love you back to me.
We sleep in the same bed but no touching whatsoever.
I’ve become Superman around the house which seems to piss her off. (I’ve kinda been lazy around the house in the past.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t even know where I stand with her.
All I know is this is the most intense pain I have ever felt in my life
The DR book doesn’t seem to be helping much.
She is nicer to the dog than to me
I should also mention she was my first EVERYTHING.
We we 22 and 20 when we got together Now we are 30 and 32
Hello. I don’t know where to start
Wife and I just moved to a new city less than 3 months ago. It’s her hometown in which she has many bad memories. We had to move here because our autistic son needed a better school system. About three weeks ago she had been stonewalling me and I couldn’t figure it out so I kept asking her to which she would reply “ I’m fine not everything is about you”. Because I had asked if she was upset at me. A day or two later after continued stonewalling I asked again to which she spat these words at me “I I JUST WANT YOU TO LEAVE ME ALONE! I love you because we have been through so much together but I’m not in love with you any more and I haven’t been for about 5 years!
A little history
Met in sept of 09
She moved in 3 days later
She was pregnant 3 months later
Bought our first house 4 months after finding out she was pregnant.
Got married about 8 months after our son was born
Two years later we found out he was autistic
That same month I was diagnosed with brain cancer
One month after brain surgery she had to have her gallbladder removed
Our whole marriage we have been pretty poor. We have dealt with more than most but we have weathered the storms
We have been together 10 years now and she drops this on me when our house is still in the midst of unpacking
I waited 3 days and asked her if she wanted a divorce she said “I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight” and then stormed off
Since then she will be friendly to me one second cold shoulder the next. She refuses to say I love you back to me.
We sleep in the same bed but no touching whatsoever.
I’ve become Superman around the house which seems to piss her off. (I’ve kinda been lazy around the house in the past.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t even know where I stand with her.
All I know is this is the most intense pain I have ever felt in my life
The DR book doesn’t seem to be helping much.
She is nicer to the dog than to me
Stop saying ILY. Every time you say "I Love you" it reminds her that she doesn't feel the same. So stop doing that damage.
Stop being superman around the house. She wants a H not a maid. Plus this is beta, not alpha, behavior.
What about DR hasn't been helping much?
Are you GAL? Detaching? 180ing (and not be being Mr. Maid)?
If you are DBing and expecting it to turn her around overnight, you are mistaken. DB for you, not her.
I don’t know what GAL means.
I don’t know how to get any more detached besides moving out
180ing I don’t understand because I dont know what’s working or not working.
And the Superman thing, huge point of contention for us is me not doing my fair share around the house
oz, you need to do some reading. Start with the sticky threads at the top of this forum. Get A LIfe. That is GAL.
Detachment is not being absent. It is being emotionally resilient. If you are initiating ILYs then you are not detached.
180s are looking at bad behaviors...and 180ing on it. For instance, if you are a slob. Stop being a slob. Pick up after yourself. BUT DO NOT PICK UP AFTER HER. Do your dishes. Wash your clothes. Straighten up your side of the room and bathroom. But do not become a maid to her.
So the Superman thing needs to end. Do your fair share. Do not do her share too.
Here is the usual welcome from Cadet:
I am posting Cadet's Welcome Posting for your review and reading purposes.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S31
GAL= Get a Life, as in, do things for you, take care of yourself. Work out, take a walk, read a book, take a cooking class.
"Detach" - be optimistic, friendly, but don't follow her around, no more "I love you", no pressure. It's related to GAL.
On the superman thing, once you've started it it's hard to stop (in my opinion) because, if you do, it feeds into her narrative that this is just a show and you can't keep it up. But don't do it as a show, don't announce that you did the laundry, just do it and leave it.
And on those sorts of things, do it consistently. You can't expect to adjust her narrative that was years in the making over several weeks. Show (not tell) her that you've changed, that you are willing to change.
BUT DO NOT PICK UP AFTER HER. Do your dishes. Wash your clothes. Straighten up your side of the room and bathroom. But do not become a maid to her.
So the Superman thing needs to end. Do your fair share. Do not do her share too.
Hey, question for you (I'm dealing with this in my own situation): once I've started, can I really stop? For example, my wife has always done her and our daughter's laundry so she mixes them together in one basket. I started doing my daughter's out of fairness and including my wife's (seemed petty to manually sort hers to the side). Am I doing this wrong? I mean, I don't mind doing it (actually, I enjoy serving others) and it takes me no extra time to do it. Thoughts?
BUT DO NOT PICK UP AFTER HER. Do your dishes. Wash your clothes. Straighten up your side of the room and bathroom. But do not become a maid to her.
So the Superman thing needs to end. Do your fair share. Do not do her share too.
Hey, question for you (I'm dealing with this in my own situation): once I've started, can I really stop? For example, my wife has always done her and our daughter's laundry so she mixes them together in one basket. I started doing my daughter's out of fairness and including my wife's (seemed petty to manually sort hers to the side). Am I doing this wrong? I mean, I don't mind doing it (actually, I enjoy serving others) and it takes me no extra time to do it. Thoughts?
crd, there are no hard and fast rules on this. I agree that it would be petty to pick her laundry out of the common load and cast it aside.
However, should you be doing all of the laundry? HECKS NO. So if you did it this week, let it go next week. When she yells, complains, is angry, you listen and validate. "I can see how that would frustrate you." "So if no one does the laundry, you are saying that upsets you. I can understand that."
Notice, those statements validate her feelings but neither justify them, nor defend yourself. If she needs laundry she will eventually do it.
The point to oz is to NOT become a maid. No one wants to be married to a maid, even if they cake eat and allow it while they are planning their exit.
crd, there are no hard and fast rules on this. I agree that it would be petty to pick her laundry out of the common load and cast it aside.
Thank you for saying that, some of the "suggestions" are hard and fast (e.g. no ILY) but some are a bit more ambiguous and I want to make sure that I'm not doing something just because it's comfortable for me.
However, should you be doing all of the laundry? HECKS NO. So if you did it this week, let it go next week. When she yells, complains, is angry, you listen and validate. "I can see how that would frustrate you." "So if no one does the laundry, you are saying that upsets you. I can understand that."
Notice, those statements validate her feelings but neither justify them, nor defend yourself. If she needs laundry she will eventually do it.
Our situation is a bit unique here - she wouldn't say anything to me, she would just have negative thoughts and then maybe (or maybe not) bring them up during some other fight. We are both conflict avoiders (though she sees me as domineering) so we have both spent 10+ years "sucking it up" and then exploding from time to time. Not trying to turn this thread into my issues but do want to share for ozman's (and other's) sakes as I think it shows that there are different circumstances
The point to oz is to NOT become a maid. No one wants to be married to a maid, even if they cake eat and allow it while they are planning their exit.
Agree completely and, if my post suggested anything else please let me clarify that I am 100% onboard with this point.
Our situation is a bit unique here - she wouldn't say anything to me, she would just have negative thoughts and then maybe (or maybe not) bring them up during some other fight. We are both conflict avoiders (though she sees me as domineering) so we have both spent 10+ years "sucking it up" and then exploding from time to time. Not trying to turn this thread into my issues but do want to share for ozman's (and other's) sakes as I think it shows that there are different circumstances
I think my suggestion to you still stands. Do not do it all the time. When she does explode....listen and validate.
Why does she go from hard stonewalling and bitter to very conversational and telling me about her day one moment to the next.
And when I say it was sudden bomb drop of I’m not in love with you any more I mean sudden. Like the week before she was sending me texts at work full of I love yous and hearts. One week later. Her exact words are “ I would be less miserable without you”.
The hard part is I don’t even know where I stand with her
Why does she go from hard stonewalling and bitter to very conversational and telling me about her day one moment to the next.
And when I say it was sudden bomb drop of I’m not in love with you any more I mean sudden. Like the week before she was sending me texts at work full of I love yous and hearts. One week later. Her exact words are “ I would be less miserable without you”.
The hard part is I don’t even know where I stand with her
This is why you need to detach. The walkaway mindset is a hard one for rational, logical humans to understand. Remember, she is controlled by emotion right now. So one moment is content, happy to be in a MR etc. The next she feels stifled, suffocated, and like a trapped rat. YOU CANNOT CONTROL THIS.
So stop trying to know where you stand with her. Learn to know where you stand with her. GAL. 180 on bad behavior (not for you but you!), and detach. Did you read the links I sent you?
I’ll start reading them now. She also deals with bad depression
I’ll start reading them now. She also deals with bad depression
Again, that is out of your control. She has to recognize that and seek help for it herself. Focus on what you can control....you.
If I were you I'd start IC, it will help you process through everything.
We have been doing this stonewalling being nice flopping for a couple weeks now.
What I don’t know is does she want to separate or not.
I feel like I should ask her so that way I know where to start
We have been doing this stonewalling being nice flopping for a couple weeks now.
What I don’t know is does she want to separate or not.
I feel like I should ask her so that way I know where to start
Rule #1 of DBing....do not initiate R talks.
Rule #2 of DBing....if she initiates an R talk, listen and validate (see validation thread).
Rule #3 of DBing....DO NOT give up the marital home or MBR. If she doesn't want to sleep in the same bed, then she sleeps in another room. If she wants to separate then she finds a new place to live.
ozman, I am seeing some very strong Nice Guy Syndrome tendencies with you. Please study what that is, and consider reading the book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Hey Oz, have you read DR yet? Do get it as we use a lot of shorthand here that refers back to DR (like GAL =
"get a life").
Why does she go from hard stonewalling and bitter to very conversational and telling me about her day one moment to the next.
One of the hardest things for new people here to grasp is that there are no good explanations that will help you understand why she says/ does certain things. She's going to do things that seem inconsistent, confusing and nonsensical. The best reason we can offer is that she is confused and has a lot of internal turmoil going on right now. Imagine there's a storm inside her head, stuff is getting tossed about and when she opens her mouth things come flying out of that storm. It's like trying to explain the unexplainable. No matter how calm and sure and confident she looks on the outside, inside is another story.
And when I say it was sudden bomb drop of I’m not in love with you any more I mean sudden. Like the week before she was sending me texts at work full of I love yous and hearts. One week later. Her exact words are “ I would be less miserable without you”.
That's not at all unusual. She's probably been unhappy for a while, a lot of WAS's go through a phase before BD where they are trying that "fake it 'til you make it" stuff. They're trying to put on a happy face and trying to like their husband and their M. But ultimately it doesn't work, they drop the bomb, and they also drop the illusion of being happy.
The hard part is I don’t even know where I stand with her
Where you stand right now, right this second is she is done with you. She doesn't like you and may even find your presence repulsive. The ONLY way you can combat that is to pull back and give her loads of time and space. Remove all pressure, very important. Leave her alone, work on yourself. DO NOT ask about the M, or what she's thinking, or what the future is. Remove all pressure and she will probably put things in a holding pattern until she sorts out how she feels. With lots and lots of time she may very well change her mind. You've got to be very patient!
But I don’t even know why she is unhappy!!! Shouldn’t I ask her?!?
Anotherstander I just saw your reply sorry
But I don’t even know why she is unhappy!!! Shouldn’t I ask her?!?
Do you like getting kicked in jewels?
If so, ask away. But trust me, that conversation WILL not go the way you want it to.
WASs will rewrite the entire history of your relationship. Something like:
"I never loved you. I was never happy. Even when we were dating. I just thought you were a good guy and that I could learn to be happy and love you. For all X years we were together I tried, and I am just done trying. I don't want to argue about it. I do not want to discuss it. I do not want to give you false hope. I just want to D, and go our separate ways."
We've all heard a variation of that.
My advice, let it lie, take our advice and pull back, give her space. No pursuit. No pressure. GAL, Detach. 180.
Become the best ozman you can be, not for her....for you.
Anotherstander.
That repulsive bit. If that’s true..... I’m setting in my truck here on lunch break with tears rolling.
I’m a mans man not a wuss. But right now I just wanna crawl in a hole in the ground
I had no idea. She is the woman of my dreams. She is home and without her I am homeless
I know that sounds stupid but that’s how I feel
I feel like I should ask her so that way I know where to start
Steve said it but to reiterate, if you ask her you will just keep hearing what she has already told you:
"I I JUST WANT YOU TO LEAVE ME ALONE!"
-or-
“I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight”
Either that or she will get sick and tired of you asking and say she wants a divorce. Keep pushing her buttons and you will not like the responses you get. Leave her alone and she will settle down.
I’m going through the same thing too.
Anotherstander.
That repulsive bit. If that’s true..... I’m setting in my truck here on lunch break with tears rolling.
I’m a mans man not a wuss. But right now I just wanna crawl in a hole in the ground
I had no idea. She is the woman of my dreams. She is home and without her I am homeless
I know that sounds stupid but that’s how I feel
That repulsive bit. If that’s true..... I’m setting in my truck here on lunch break with tears rolling.
I'm sorry, it's not that you are -really- repulsive, that's just how the mind of the WAS works. We've all been there! I'm sure you haven't had a chance to read through other sitches, but Steve was where you are and now he and his wife are happily reconciled, so please understand we're just talking about how she feels right NOW. It can and will change, so hang in there!
I had no idea. She is the woman of my dreams. She is home and without her I am homeless
I know that sounds stupid but that’s how I feel
Not at all stupid, believe me we here, we understand! We've been there! It's a horrible feeling. Just take life a day at a time for now. Try not to worry about the unknown. Just listen, read, follow the advice, and be patient.
Ok. Is it normal for it to hurt this bad? To not be able to focus on work? I’m 2 months in to a new job and a new city and I feel like the wind is knocked out of me but it wont come back
But the most important to me is. Do these ever have happy endings?
Thanks everybody. Sorry I’m such a wreck. I’m just trying to get my bearings
I’m reeling
oz, yes it hurts that bad.
However:
But right now I just wanna crawl in a hole in the ground
I had no idea. She is the woman of my dreams. She is home and without her I am homeless
That is not healthy. Please look into getting into IC. Take control of YOUR life. People come and go, you will always be you. Your W could get in an accident, or ill, and pass away. Believe it or not you will go on. So drop the "I can't go on" and pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
Ok. Is it normal for it to hurt this bad? To not be able to focus on work? I’m 2 months in to a new job and a new city and I feel like the wind is knocked out of me but it wont come back
100% absolutely, completely normal. I am an architect so lots of time sitting at a desk. I couldn't sit, fight-or-flight would kick in and I had to get up. Sometimes I walked down the hall and back. Sometimes I went down to the first floor and walked around the building. It was horrible, couldn't think, didn't want to eat, couldn't focus. If you continue to have trouble then go talk to your doc. I finally did that and he prescribed anti-depressants and an anti-anxiety drug. I only took the anti-anxiety pill if that fight-or-flight thing hit me and it really worked. It would calm me down and allow me to focus. The anti-depressants took a couple of weeks to kick in but once they did I felt much more like my old self. What's happening to you is a chemical imbalance, it will eventually resolve but it can take a while. Medication does help if you need to get back on track sooner.
But the most important to me is. Do these ever have happy endings?
Yes, they always do. Some reconcile and some don't, but everyone eventually gets back to a happy place. I was totally gutted like you, thought I would die if I didn't get my XW back. Now I don't want her back. I didn't choose to live without her, she chose that, but I made the best of it. I have an awesome relationship with my kids, my career is great, I love my home, my finances are in order, and I have a beautiful girlfriend that showers me with attention and affection. Whether you reconcile or not eventually you will be a success story. But there's hell to go through before that, so strap in!
Completely normal. It hurts like a mother fucher. With time the pain will fade.
Yes there usually is a happy ending. Sometimes it’s just not the one you expected.
Take it one hour at a time. Try to exercise or meditation when you can.
Ok so I just read Brett and Stella’s story in DR. Brett was being mr nice guy and his 180 was to tell his wife he wasn’t going to be the doormat and if his wife wanted out she should leave (so he essentially brought up the R).
This is what you guys told me not to do though
I’m confused.
Am I supposed to bring something up. Or am I supposed to be last resorting right now?
We are still sleeping in the same bed by the way
Ok so I just read Brett and Stella’s story in DR. Brett was being mr nice guy and his 180 was to tell his wife he wasn’t going to be the doormat and if his wife wanted out she should leave (so he essentially brought up the R).
This is what you guys told me not to do though
I’m confused.
You only do that if it's what you want. If you are OK with her leaving then do it. I don't think you are though, at least not yet. You can't do ANYTHING as as trick to get her back because it doesn't work that way.
Are you being a doormat?
If yes, then stop being a doormat. However, not being a doormat is more than just words. It is action. For instance, if she is in an active affair, you MOVE her out of the MBR. That means while she is out you move all of her stuff to another room. When she protests you explain you won't share the MBR with a cheater. And then listen and validate. If she gets disrespectful you shutdown the converation: "I understand you are upset. However, I will not be talked to this way." Then walkaway. Go into the MBR and lock the door.
ACTION. Not words.
You are not at the point of LRT. LRT is for couples that have separated. In that case you go dark on her, do not initiate contact. Your sitch is much like mine was. So you just back off, give her space. Do not initate R talks. No pursuit. No pressure.
My brother pasted away. That hurt. My wife divorced me. That hurt more. My brother died by an accident. My wife chose to divorce me.
We all have repressed emotions and pain. Now is your time to deal with it and release it. Do not release it in your wife's presence. Get into Individual Counceling ASAP.
What is going on has nothing to do with her and everything to do with you. I am sure you do not believe me. Trust me.
For example, you have a bad habit. Your wife has a bad habit. Can you stop your W from doing her habit? Can you stop yourself from doing your habit? Which is easier? Changing your behavior or someone else's? Focus on making changes to YOU, not her. Change your behaviors. Change the way you interact.
Focus on your personal growth.
I wish you well.
So Steve85 how do I act around her then. I’m lost. I shouldn’t confront her about the R. But I shouldn’t be using LRT. What SHOULD I be doing. I have hardly any friends. Most are her family members. I can’t afford to go do anything. I can’t afford a coach on here.
I don’t know how to behave at all around her. I’m in an area between talking it out and LRT and I have no idea what to do
Ready to change I can’t afford IC
Ready to change I can’t afford IC
Then focus on your personal growth. I was reading self help books in all areas I believed needed improvements.
Look here as a starting point:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094Read this thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984
You should be doing something that gets you out of the house.
Go for a walk. Go sit at the beach and smell the air. Go to a park and read some DR. Breathe in deeply. Exhale slowly. Volunteer an hour at the humane society. Volunteer at a homeless kitchen. Volunteer at the local food bank. Go to church and speak with a minister. Total cost. $0.
You hardly have any friends. That isn't no friends. Make a plan to do something with them over the weekend for a couple hours.
Do ONE THING this weekend that YOU want to do. Not what you think she wants you to do. Doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. Don't go on a drinking binge. Don't start a relationship talk. Don't ask why. Or do, its your choice. The consequences have already been posted above. Swift kick in the nuts.
A respectful thank you. But I meant what and how do I do when I AM around her... which is a lot
And I also DO have to say when and where. We have a special needs child that can’t ever be left alone. That’s part of the problem. I would go do my thing and leave her with the kid
I have hardly any friends...
Making friends sounds like a good goal.
I can’t afford to go do anything.
Do things that are free. Even walking through the park.
And I also DO have to say when and where. We have a special needs child that can’t ever be left alone. That’s part of the problem. I would go do my thing and leave her with the kid
Do you give her time to go do her thing? Is it equal "me" time?
It’a great that you’re in a great place! What is your ex wife doing now?
Ok. Is it normal for it to hurt this bad? To not be able to focus on work? I’m 2 months in to a new job and a new city and I feel like the wind is knocked out of me but it wont come back
100% absolutely, completely normal. I am an architect so lots of time sitting at a desk. I couldn't sit, fight-or-flight would kick in and I had to get up. Sometimes I walked down the hall and back. Sometimes I went down to the first floor and walked around the building. It was horrible, couldn't think, didn't want to eat, couldn't focus. If you continue to have trouble then go talk to your doc. I finally did that and he prescribed anti-depressants and an anti-anxiety drug. I only took the anti-anxiety pill if that fight-or-flight thing hit me and it really worked. It would calm me down and allow me to focus. The anti-depressants took a couple of weeks to kick in but once they did I felt much more like my old self. What's happening to you is a chemical imbalance, it will eventually resolve but it can take a while. Medication does help if you need to get back on track sooner.
But the most important to me is. Do these ever have happy endings?
Yes, they always do. Some reconcile and some don't, but everyone eventually gets back to a happy place. I was totally gutted like you, thought I would die if I didn't get my XW back. Now I don't want her back. I didn't choose to live without her, she chose that, but I made the best of it. I have an awesome relationship with my kids, my career is great, I love my home, my finances are in order, and I have a beautiful girlfriend that showers me with attention and affection. Whether you reconcile or not eventually you will be a success story. But there's hell to go through before that, so strap in!
How do I tell if she’s having an affair
Is her phone password protected? Does she hide it and take it in the bathroom?
Yes it is. But is always has been. We both always take our phones to the bathroom. I’ve always said you either trust your wife 100% or 0 %. So until she gives me proof..... I just ask because she was just looking at msngr and talking to somebody and when I walked up behind her she hurriedly closed it out
Well most likely you have your answer. 9 times out of 10 there is a third party involved. Is it a deal breaker for you?
I’m dying...... I don’t know what to say...
Please do go.... I really need someone to talk to
Oz,
Breath buddy. Affair no affair it doesn’t mean you can’t work it out. Don’t you have anyone to talk to?
No I’m in a new city. I only have 2 friends not her family. And they are not interested in talking to me
You know what helped me out early on was going for long walks.
I dont know how to act around her. Should I confront about possible A? How do I behave around her? Also you said 9 times out of 10?
O,
No do not confront her because you don't know for sure right now and I can tell by your posts it's not a deal breaker for you. If you confront her and then do nothing about it that makes you look weak and will lower her attraction for you.
This is all very confusing for you so right now you should stick to the basics and give her space. Print out Sandi's rules and try to follow them to the best of your ability.
Know that right now you can't do anything to make it better right now but you certainly can make matters worse. Try to just get through 1 hour at a time.
Hang in there man!
Treat her like you would a friendly neighbor.
Why are things getting worse at home.
I’ve stopped ILYs for almost a week
I’ve asked no questions for like 2 weeks about R.
And things are not improving I don’t think. Maybe a little worse maybe a little better. It’s so hard to tell
Oz I know what you are going through. When I first got bomb dropped my w went off the “deep end”. We were a very loving couple and everyone said we were the last people they would expect to go through this. My w became so hostile and angry. At the beginning I wasn’t on here so I was making a lot of mistakes like pursuing her and it only made her more mad. She even flipped out on me one morning because the kids gave her a hard time before school. They look to blame us for everything, at the beginning I took everything to heart, but like the vets said validate. Once I started to validate and give her space I started to see a change in her anger. She became more pleasant and wasn’t running out of the house all the time. The other thing if you are truly struggling with panic attacks or depression go on meds. It will help. My whole life I was anti meds, I didn’t even take Advil for a headache. But this was just so hard for me to handle that I went on meds, they help.
Why are things getting worse at home.
I’ve stopped ILYs for almost a week
I’ve asked no questions for like 2 weeks about R.
And things are not improving I don’t think. Maybe a little worse maybe a little better. It’s so hard to tell
2 weeks is like a drop in the ocean. Oz, you are going to have to find patience because this is a marathon, not a sprint. Most sitches take well over a year to resolve, some last for years! So dig in. If you want to save your MR then you need to DB, and take one day at a time. Impulsiveness will kill you. So learn to control yourself. Never do anything rash or based on emotion.
I know you said you can't afford IC. But I believe you can't afford to not be in IC.
Hey guys. So I’m trying to figure out where we are. I’ve been told I’m not in a LRT sitch. But it sure feels like it. We after the ILYBINILWY bomb and then the “I would be less miserable without you” and then a couple days later when I asked if she wanted a divorce and she said “ I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight”. It sure feels like LRT territory. I’m still not sure how to act around her. I’m trying to Validate whenever possible. She asked if I wanted to go with her yesterday to visit her fam for a bit and run errands so I went. We went out to dinner with some friends and I was making them laugh hard. I glanced at her and she was trying not to laugh. I asked subtly who she has been msging so much. She said “ my sister but it doesn’t matter”. Which I don’t know what that means
It’s so painful to be so close to her but yet so far away. I think this is what love is long suffering means. I don’t think she understands you have to create your own happiness. And I make her unhappy
I wish the pain would stop
It’s hard to GAL because we just moved. House still has lots of boxes. House is a mess.
Yup ozman. In my own sich and many others on here, I keep seeing the same repetitive theme and pattern on here and else where. The LBH/WAW is depressed, is unhappy and I'm not saying any of this is right or wrong, it just is. IMHO They think that either we are the cause for their unhappiness, the marriage, their life purpose is the cause, lack of relationship dynamics, coping skills, childhood trauma, boredom, desiring new experiences, new people, new men and women, new relationships, new achievements and goals in profession, experiences in life etc. Is the answer to their happiness. They are part right. Our experiences shape who we are, and who we become. But I believe in what you said about happiness. I believe happiness is supposed to serve us, but it is supposed to come and go in the pursuit of it. Its like money. You work, you have achievement, you get money, you use it for practical reasons to attain and sustain, you buy things with it that make you happy sometimes. Its like a child having a toy and getting bored with it after two weeks. Real happiness comes from being ok with yourself, where you are, and being comfortable in your own skin.
I actually challenged my STBXW on this. If she is unhappy with me? The R the M or just herself? Its kind of a little bit of both. I think in the short term when we pursue things it does make us happy and keeps us motivated but in the long run these moments are fleeting and it has to come from within ever find true contention.
Notice how everyone else around you laughed, but W tried to stifle it because of all her resentment and unhappiness torwards you? She has inner work to do, and you have to leave her to it. Most people you can never tell them what they need, even if they want it. You have to let them figure it out for themselves, success or failure. Let them.
I'm on a hike right now that I never got to finish 10 years ago and my w and I were dating because she wanted to turn back. I'm really happy I'm out here I have my freedom
I really can’t accept the fact that we might not work out. I probably have that mindset from fighting cancer.
I’m scared I’m going to end up like my grandpa People day I’m a lot like him.
He got married at 20. Had two kids, my dad and my aunt. His wife left him and the kids. He said it hurt so bad he never got over it. He’s 83 and he never found anyone else.
Please help me understand the book more. I’ve asked this several times How do I behave around her????????!!!!
I don’t know which tactics I should be using for my sitch.. somebody please help. I’ve been told I’m not in LRT. but then everybody recommends last resort things to do. I’m scared and don’t know which part of the books advice applies to me right now. At this moment. Someone please HELP!
There is something that I want to add to this. Im sure during courtship and marriage. A lot of the experiences we have had with our spouses were wonderful, as time went on and real life responsibilities set it, im sure of those experiences became not so wonderful. So? What I am trying to figure out is?... I understand past is past, and all we have is right now, and the future, that we have to move forward, that our time is important, that life is finite. But why is it that most of us in our circumstsnces, the past doesn't hold enough value for anyone to consider to stay? To work, to try? To learn new skills, to do the inner work? I know we are all brojen in a sense as well as our spouses, and it's not our job to fix them. That we have expectations of people and ourselves and if there is no way one human being can meet all of them for another. Again no one perception is right or wrong? I just find it amusing that some people are drifters all in the name of seeking happiness, and others are commited to staying put because it is the right thing to do? I think that some people recognise relationships as ups and downs, good times and bad, all through the entire duration of life, and others see it as right now, how is this serving me? Do I see a happy future based on previous behaviors and experiences, is this what I want? Is this what the other person wants out of life? All these questions...
I think it’s the microwave society we live in. People want everything now without having to work for it, like happiness.
There is something that I want to add to this. Im sure during courtship and marriage. A lot of the experiences we have had with our spouses were wonderful, as time went on and real life responsibilities set it, im sure of those experiences became not so wonderful. So? What I am trying to figure out is?... I understand past is past, and all we have is right now, and the future, that we have to move forward, that our time is important, that life is finite. But why is it that most of us in our circumstsnces, the past doesn't hold enough value for anyone to consider to stay? To work, to try? To learn new skills, to do the inner work? I know we are all brojen in a sense as well as our spouses, and it's not our job to fix them. That we have expectations of people and ourselves and if there is no way one human being can meet all of them for another. Again no one perception is right or wrong? I just find it amusing that some people are drifters all in the name of seeking happiness, and others are commited to staying put because it is the right thing to do? I think that some people recognise relationships as ups and downs, good times and bad, all through the entire duration of life, and others see it as right now, how is this serving me? Do I see a happy future based on previous behaviors and experiences, is this what I want? Is this what the other person wants out of life? All these questions...
I think your right about microwave society
Please see my above question. Anything would help please
I’m struggling with that too. I haven’t been doing this very long, either.
I think your right about microwave society
Please see my above question. Anything would help please
I'm going to be honest with you ozman. I've tried using tactics early on an even into the present it doesn't work. Im going to be honest with you Oman. I don't think tactics are going to help. I've tried all that. Implementing tactics is implykng that you are trying to control, manipulate and expect a desired outcome of another human being, and their perception of the world, and of you. You have to pursue you're life without them and leave them to their own devices, desires, and demons. I know nobody wants to hear that including myself, but you have to let them go. We don't own them, posses them, control them, and apparently and currently think like them or have their perception of things.
Remember the beginning when you dated W or any other person for that matter? I'm willing to bet while you were single, you were doing things for yourself, you were independent minded, you had passion and purpose, and you didn't give a flying f@$! about any particular outcomes, almost as if the R happened by chance or accident.
We need to get back to that place by GALing. Our spouses are done, they don't want us, the M, the R or the family. All if this "attractiveness" and AMOAFWL that everyone speaks of here, has to be purposefully intended for ourselves. Then, and only then, MAY!!! Not SHALL OR WILL possibly attract the W back.
Be happy for you. Be happy for them. Be happy for your kids, your family and friends. Keep em laughing, keep em guessing, keep em smiling, and keep them on their toes. Let go. Let them go. Lean into the suck. It will make you nuts at first like anything uncomfortable. But it will eventually make you stronger. you will start the see the world on your world a little the differently slowly day by day. The past has no bearing on theirs or your future right now together. Apparently they think that they can do better in life so I say let thyou em.
That's the best advice I have to give right now
My GAL. I will be on stage next WED night with a mic in hand doing my first comedy bit
The W and I are clicking really well right now as friends cleaning house. Should I roll with it. I so badly want to bring up something while she is in a good mood. Also she just said “. We have to clean this basement up before WE move out of this house. Made me happy. Reading into it too much?
Reading into it too much?
Yes
I so badly want to bring up something while she is in a good mood.
I would refrain from bringing anything R up.
Yes.
They are under a roller coaster of emotion. My wife has been cold and short with me for 3-4 days and then tonight on webchat, it was just like old times. I try not to read into that either.
They are hurting and clueless about what they want
The W and I are clicking really well right now as friends cleaning house. Should I roll with it. I so badly want to bring up something while she is in a good mood. Also she just said “. We have to clean this basement up before WE move out of this house. Made me happy. Reading into it too much?
Dont read into the WE too much. It has no meaning bearing or weight. Trust me and all the others on this. Her words mean nothing just as much as your does to her. Actions and humility is what turns people back or not at all.
I read into things early in my sich after BD in Oct. In Jan my W said ILY when I helped her with MIL's birthday party. That was the last time and things have progressively gotten worse since then, to the point where we both agree on D and just pretty much ignore each other and do our own thing. She still tries to play the friends card, but there is no "romantical value" or respect there as a man. I'm pretty much dead to her and her to me in the "romantical sense"
I don’t think I could bear that. My wife is also my best friend. Not just my lover. E I have made every substantial memory I have as an adult with her
Oz, you keep asking what to do, please print out Sandi's rules and read them several times a day. They are your template on how to behave. They are like DB'ing "crib notes". Just try and calm down, you sound extremely anxious. It took you a long time to get to this point even though it seems sudden, and it will take a long time to dig out of it. Patience!
It’a great that you’re in a great place! What is your ex wife doing now?
She owns a home about 5 minutes away from me. After our D she went through a fight with breast cancer but is now cancer free and doing well. I see her about once a week when we exchange our son (our two daughters are grown now). We still have joint celebrations for birthdays and Christmas. It was my bday a couple of weeks ago and she and I and the 3 kids went out for dinner and then for ice cream, she paid. Then we went to her place and they gave me a few presents. This has been our life after D, we're still in each other's lives and get along just fine.
So we had a really good day yesterday. (As far as friends anyway). I resisted initiating any heavy talks. Made her laugh some. I was in an angry mood last night but trying not to show it. I was being really quiet and she eventually asked if everything was ok. I replied yes and she said well your not saying much. I just kinda said hmm and left it at that. But I feel now like maybe I was a little to cold to her and I damaged some progress I’ve made which makes me sad. Thoughts?
Hey guys. So I’m trying to figure out where we are. I’ve been told I’m not in a LRT sitch. But it sure feels like it. We after the ILYBINILWY bomb and then the “I would be less miserable without you” and then a couple days later when I asked if she wanted a divorce and she said “ I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight”. It sure feels like LRT territory. I’m still not sure how to act around her. I’m trying to Validate whenever possible. She asked if I wanted to go with her yesterday to visit her fam for a bit and run errands so I went. We went out to dinner with some friends and I was making them laugh hard. I glanced at her and she was trying not to laugh. I asked subtly who she has been msging so much. She said “ my sister but it doesn’t matter”. Which I don’t know what that means
It’s so painful to be so close to her but yet so far away. I think this is what love is long suffering means. I don’t think she understands you have to create your own happiness. And I make her unhappy
I wish the pain would stop
It’s hard to GAL because we just moved. House still has lots of boxes. House is a mess.
WHy did you ask her who she was messaging? How does asking her that fit in to DBing?
Oz, you keep asking what to do, please print out Sandi's rules and read them several times a day. They are your template on how to behave. They are like DB'ing "crib notes". Just try and calm down, you sound extremely anxious. It took you a long time to get to this point even though it seems sudden, and it will take a long time to dig out of it. Patience!
This is excellent advice. I read Sandi's rules every day as a refresher and to commit them to memory. It DOES help.
Also, not sure if it's your thing but meditation has helped me very much to calm down. Whenever I get anxious or feel it coming on I stop, take 4 deep breaths. Helps to focus on something other than thoughts. It takes some practice but after about a week or so you can condition yourself to extend those calm moments. Might be worth a try.
Stay strong
Please help me understand the book more. I’ve asked this several times How do I behave around her????????!!!!
I don’t know which tactics I should be using for my sitch.. somebody please help. I’ve been told I’m not in LRT. but then everybody recommends last resort things to do. I’m scared and don’t know which part of the books advice applies to me right now. At this moment. Someone please HELP!
First, you should be around her as little as possible. LBSs usually get clingy after BD, Follow their WAS around, begging for their attention.
Second, asking her who she is messaging so much IS NOT giving her time and space. NO PRESSURE. NO PURSUIT.
Third, someone told you to treat her like a friendly neighbor. sandi's rules tell you to treat her like a cashier at the store. Detachment says to be present, pleased, upbeat, friendly, but not overly engaging (do not start conversations) with her. oz there is a lot of material here about these topics. Have you done all of the reading from Cadet's first response.
I can tell you are bucking DBing methods, like many newbies, because they are counter-intuitive. I did the same thing. There is a simple fact you have to come to face: you cannot nice her back, woo her back, do what you did when dating her to get her back. None of that will work.
Back off. Give her time and space. Work on being detached. And focusing on improvements you can make to yourself. Those are the tactics that MIGHT...MIGHT....did I say MIGHT eventually cause her to get curious as to what is different and start coming back.
She owns a home about 5 minutes away from me. After our D she went through a fight with breast cancer but is now cancer free and doing well. I see her about once a week when we exchange our son (our two daughters are grown now). We still have joint celebrations for birthdays and Christmas. It was my bday a couple of weeks ago and she and I and the 3 kids went out for dinner and then for ice cream, she paid. Then we went to her place and they gave me a few presents. This has been our life after D, we're still in each other's lives and get along just fine.
That’s great and I think you are a better man than I am. I would NOT be willing to have a relationship if I get divorced, especially after what she’s done to our family by making the decision to leave.
She owns a home about 5 minutes away from me. After our D she went through a fight with breast cancer but is now cancer free and doing well. I see her about once a week when we exchange our son (our two daughters are grown now). We still have joint celebrations for birthdays and Christmas. It was my bday a couple of weeks ago and she and I and the 3 kids went out for dinner and then for ice cream, she paid. Then we went to her place and they gave me a few presents. This has been our life after D, we're still in each other's lives and get along just fine.
That’s great and I think you are a better man than I am. I would NOT be willing to have a relationship if I get divorced, especially after what she’s done to our family by making the decision to leave.
be careful with these kind of pronouncements. After my W's EA in 2005, I said if she ever did it again i would out here. 12 years later, EA #2, I went right back into MR saving mode.
Steve85, why do we love our spouses so much that we are willing to put up with this stuff? So many of my friends tell me not to put up with it, but the truth is I just love her.
Destroyd, there is a difference between love and putting up with this. You can still love her, but NOT put with it. We all have a line of what we will put up with. Some will not put up with an affair. Period. Some will put up with an affair but not physical abuse. Some might even put up with physical abuse, but not attempts to kill them.
So I don't see loving and putting up as so closely tied. I have an ex-gf that I still love. But I quit putting up with her garbage years ago.
You should never have unconditional love in a love relationship.
I’ve asked this several times How do I behave around her????????!!!!....Someone please HELP!
Hi Oz,
Steve85 gave you great advise.
This is my spin on how you behave around her:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2846984You are to treat her like a cat. Do not chase cats. Let the cat come to you. If this does not work, treat her like a squirrel. Do not make sudden movements around squirrels, you will scare the squirrel away.
You are to listen very carefully to what she says and remember every word. Full attention with eye contact. This is her story that you need to understand. It is not your story. Do not try to change her story. Validate.
That’s great and I think you are a better man than I am. I would NOT be willing to have a relationship if I get divorced, especially after what she’s done to our family by making the decision to leave.
We do it for the kids. We talked a lot about it after BD and were both on board with supporting the kids and making it all as easy on them as we could. So we continued to have joint get-togethers for birthdays and Christmas. You and your W have S5 together, so you have no choice but to have some kind of relationship. Try to look past your hurt and pain and remember S5 is caught in the middle of this.
EDIT- sorry I forgot this is Oz's thread, let's try to keep it focused on him!
I see your point, but I know myself. I just wouldn’t want to have anything to do with her once we got divorced.
She owns a home about 5 minutes away from me. After our D she went through a fight with breast cancer but is now cancer free and doing well. I see her about once a week when we exchange our son (our two daughters are grown now). We still have joint celebrations for birthdays and Christmas. It was my bday a couple of weeks ago and she and I and the 3 kids went out for dinner and then for ice cream, she paid. Then we went to her place and they gave me a few presents. This has been our life after D, we're still in each other's lives and get along just fine.
That’s great and I think you are a better man than I am. I would NOT be willing to have a relationship if I get divorced, especially after what she’s done to our family by making the decision to leave.
be careful with these kind of pronouncements. After my W's EA in 2005, I said if she ever did it again i would out here. 12 years later, EA #2, I went right back into MR saving mode.
I agree, but it’s just hard when I feel like she’s not putting him first by wanting out in the first place
That’s great and I think you are a better man than I am. I would NOT be willing to have a relationship if I get divorced, especially after what she’s done to our family by making the decision to leave.
We do it for the kids. We talked a lot about it after BD and were both on board with supporting the kids and making it all as easy on them as we could. So we continued to have joint get-togethers for birthdays and Christmas. You and your W have S5 together, so you have no choice but to have some kind of relationship. Try to look past your hurt and pain and remember S5 is caught in the middle of this.
EDIT- sorry I forgot this is Oz's thread, let's try to keep it focused on him!
So how do I know if she is a WAW or a WW or a MLC?
You really don’t and it doesn’t really matter you pretty much treat it all the same.
So I treat it the same weather she is cheating or not. Sandis deal that cadet sent me says they are different
So how do I know if she is a WAW or a WW or a MLC?
WAW- unhappy W that has had enough. WW- suddenly buying new sexy undergarments, running around with single/ separated/ divorced friends, super secretive, GGW (girls gone wild). MLC- all of the above plus a nearly complete loss of control of finances, and partial or complete abandonment of children. Sometimes there's a blending of the above that makes it hard to "diagnose" as one or the other. In the end like LH said the DB'ing approach is the same. The biggest difference is MLC can take a LOT longer to resolve.
Also how often is OM involved in a sitch like mine
Also how often is OM involved in a sitch like mine
I hate to say it but probably 95% or more of the time. It's human nature in my experience.
Oz,
I just read a few of your posts. It's clear that you are really feeling the pain. I want to challenge you to start putting your own health first and calm yourself down the best you can. Do things that will make you feel better (not drugs, drinking, etc). You are spinning and looking for the magic potion. It does not exist. Right now you really need to read the detachment thread about 3 times per day and put that into practice.
You mentioned something about DB'ing for 2 weeks with no change. These things take a while to get into and a while to get out of. Since you can't control the timeline, you need to worry about something you can control. Like your health. And I mean your overall health: physical, spiritual, emotional. You need a support system that doesn't involve your W in any way. Vent there. Then spend your time making your life great again. Seriously.
Also how often is OM involved in a sitch like mine
I hate to say it but probably 95% or more of the time. It's human nature in my experience.
Tarzan never lets go of his vine until he has a good grip on the next. 99%
You moved back to her hometown. 99.999%
Listen,
You can't control her. Set her free. The only one you can control is you. Change you for the better. Most guys do not understand how to listen to women. Become an expert listener. Most guys do not know what women are really attracted to. Become attractive to women. You wife will notice.
Read as many posts in the link I gave you. All your questions are answered in there.
What the hell does the Tarzan thing mean.
And if it’s 99 % shouldn’t I just ask her?
And if no than why not
I don’t think the people on here understand me when I say I have no friends. I don’t have a support system.
And yes I am spiraling. If she is sleeping with another man that kills me inside. Like I wouldn’t see the point after finding that out. Like the point of anything. That’s too much pain. Just thinking about it makes me want to puke. I feel nauseous
I don’t know how this happened
I don’t know what to do
I can’t do this
Also ready2change. All that stuff you sent me is opposite of how you guys tell me to act. I’m not supposed to be trying to seduce her right. Just a calm cool collected friend. Right. Doin my own thing. Not paying her any attention. HOLY HELL I can figure this out. Listen while making eye contact or don’t pay attention to her.
I want a coach so bad but I don’t have the money. Like 12 bucks is all I have in the world
Ozman,
if you come off half as abrasive and demanding to her that you do to this board, I imagine she is a bit unhappy.
Tarzan analogy was explained. She is being compared to Tarzan in that she is not letting go of you without another man lined up.
You shouldn't ask her because then you're going to come off as weak and accepting of an affair because you aren't ready to end things with her. And it will lead to a fight, no doubt, where you get emotional and crying and mention the "what's the point" thing to her. Which only makes your situation worse.
We understand that you don't have friends. You come off as difficult, maybe you can work on that and get out and make new friends. Go to meetup.com, go participate in a sport, hobby, or activity that you enjoy. Be nice, ask questions, give compliments, make friends.
You need to work on not spiraling. You need counseling and help. Start setting up a support network for yourself.
As for what to do? Quit worrying about her so much and do what's attractive. Read R2C's links on attraction and the quotes. Read and post here a lot.
You actually do know how this happened, better than any of us - you were there.
We are going to keep helping you on what to do. Keep reading our posts. They make sense, trust me. Right now, you are so worked up that you can't realize it, but in time you will. I've been in your shoes, right there. Read my sitch if you want. If you click on my name, then forum posts, then go to page 1 you will see my first post, first thread. I was out of control and overwhelmed. BUT, you can do this. You will do this. You have no choice but to do this. So why not make the best of it?
I don’t know how to put detachment into practice
I’m sorry guys. I don’t mean to be rude. I promise I’m not really. I’m usually the nicest person anybody has ever met. (What I’m told anyway). I’m just scared and alone. I’m sorry
Maybe it’s because she was my first everything. Kiss, girlfriend Hell she was the first girl who ever wanted to hold my hand. All my life I’ve been told I’m ugly. She was the first to not think so
Tarzan monkey branching double backflips.
Ok guys. I just offered to start dinner. I was gonna go on a run but we are both hungry. She said “ well I’ll start cooking then”
Me “it’s ok you don’t have to cook by yourself”
Her “I’ve been cooking dinner by myself for the last 10 [censored] years”
Me “ well that was then, this is now”
Her “pfft and heavy eye roll”
Guys I’m not sure what to do. I’ve been a slob of a husband. I’ve emasculated myself due to childhood trauma and my insecurities . I haven’t handled my cancer like a man. I let her pay the bills. I was a farmer and worked farmer hours. My grandads divorced and so is my dad
So I treat it the same weather she is cheating or not. Sandis deal that cadet sent me says they are different
Sandi advocates for tough love with a WW. As in kick her out of the MBR, etc. No one disagrees with that. However, as far as WAW vs WW vs MLC. You still DB. You still GAL. You still 180 on bad behavior.
Oz you are overthinking things. And you're bucking advice because it isn't what you want to hear. So many come here thinking someone can tell them. "Do A,B, and C and you'll Dave your marriage." Truth is that no matter what you do, there is a really good chance that you are going to end up divorced. If you pressure, pursue, and try to control you're, virtually guaranteed to be divorced.
If you do what is counter-intuitive, if you go get a life separate from her, emotionally detach, improve yourself, and give her even more time and space than she asked for, then maybe something will switch around in hey thinking and you'll have at least a chance to save your marriage.
It takes patience. It takes manning up. It takes being the best ozman that you can be. Question is are up for the challenge? Few are. And that's why there are so many divorces.
I’m sorry guys. I don’t mean to be rude. I promise I’m not really. I’m usually the nicest person anybody has ever met. (What I’m told anyway). I’m just scared and alone. I’m sorry
This post right here is textbook Nice Guy Syndrome. Might want to read the book No More Mr. Nice Guy. Google Nice Guy Syndrome. It's a real thing.
All that stuff you sent me is opposite of how you guys tell me to act. I’m not supposed to be trying to seduce her right.
Seduction is different than pursing and being needy.
Right now, you should reflect on how you have behaved in the past and evaluate new ways of behaving as you move forward. Decide on who you want to be and become that guy.
My Sitch was over 10 years ago. I learned a lot. I did not win my W back, but I got my balls back. I have been with my lady for 9 years now raising a blended family. I have seen others attract their spouse back. I have seen the advice they were given. Each of us are different but there are patterns.
book No More Mr. Nice Guy.
This does not mean stop being nice. Keep being nice. Just don't be nice expecting something in return. Be nice because it is the right thing to do, because you want to. Read the book and you will understand.
Ok guys. I just offered to start dinner. I was gonna go on a run but we are both hungry. She said “ well I’ll start cooking then”
Me “it’s ok you don’t have to cook by yourself”
Her “I’ve been cooking dinner by myself for the last 10 [censored] years”
Me “ well that was then, this is now”
Her “pfft and heavy eye roll”
Guys I’m not sure what to do. I’ve been a slob of a husband. I’ve emasculated myself due to childhood trauma and my insecurities . I haven’t handled my cancer like a man. I let her pay the bills. I was a farmer and worked farmer hours. My grandads divorced and so is my dad
This exchange confuses me. How did you offer to start dinner? Is there something about the way you asked that made her feel pressured to start cooking right then?
I don’t know how to put detachment into practice
For me, a key piece was recognizing when my head was making up stories and then deliberately telling myself something different.
For example, suppose my husband was very upset about something, but didn't want to talk about it.
Attached me: H is super upset. What did I do? Or not do? I bet he's online looking at apartments. This is it. He's going to tell me he's moving out. <imagines entire dialogue for the moving out conversation> I should go ask him if there is anything he needs me to do. Or ask him if he's mad at me. He'll feel better if he talks about it. <I end up as upset as my husband>
Detached me: H is super upset. What did I do? Or not do? I bet he's online looking at apartments . . . *Wait a minute* I have no idea what is going on or why he is upset. I've thought about the day and I'm not aware of anything I did or didn't do that would cause him to be upset. His life is about him, not me. I shouldn't freak out until I know something. I'm going to <go for a walk, or read to my kids, or work on my new hobby--learning new things is a great distraction at times like this--or clean a room in the house>. He'll come talk to me when he's ready.
Not only is detached me happier, she's also a better wife. It doesn't help H if I get upset everytime he is upset, and detached me is a much better listener when he is ready to talk.
You have to be vigilant about not mindreading or imagining. As soon as you realize that's what you're doing, change your thoughts.
Ozman I'm with you you are not alone. I don't have a support system either. Its exhausting going back and forth between choosing to stay and choosing to go. Ignoring and doing your own thing and trying to reach out. Watching the person you knew of me thought you knew become distant, argumentative, withdrawn, anxious, depressed, and defensive at every little thing like an animal trapped in a cage, and you are helpless to do anything.
I've personally struggled trying it man's way and trying God's way. DBing and being Christ like in all this. Try looking at it this way. Maybe it will help keep the right frame of mind through all this? What if your marriage was under attack by Satan? What if everything your W told you about all of her negative feelings about you were lies? Were lies of the mind, were lies of her imagined and part factual feelings. What if you knew she wasn't emotionally strong enough to fight those lies? Would you still lie there helpless? Or would it help you stay strong and change, and fight the good fight, but without fighting with her. Its not over until you say its over. Or until she files. Lean into the suck. It will help you grow. Don't overly pursue, but you have to be strong in yourself. This mindset has been kind of working for me lately. Not really improving things, but a step in the right direction. When you talk to your W you have to speak with her as if you are speaking with a new date. Leave behind what failed as failed. Like a rebirth of you, a revival in a sense.
There are parts of you that are the same from long ago, and parts of you, you know you can be different. Use the hardships as fuel to change. That's all i got for now. If I think of anything ill add to it
Please everybody who has helped me, read this
First off. Thank you all
I am autistic. There. That is out of the way. I don’t know what you guys know about autism but it makes this sort of thing very hard. I can’t really pick up on people’s emotions very well. I don’t understand nuances. To me what someone says is what they mean. I can’t read between the lines. This is not something that I can learn. It’s just not there. My entire life has been do A B and C and get these results. That’s how autistic people work. It’s the only way they can
I also have always beat the odds. The 5 year survival rate for my cancer was 36 %. I’m still here 7 years later. I told myself I would beat the odds and I did. I never considered not winning
I can’t wrap my head around this not working out. My brain just refuses to do it.
You guys are amazing. You really are. But for the first time in my life I can’t seem to find the resolve. My heart is tearing out of my chest. When she looks at me with contempt and hatred in her eyes I want to die. This pain is so intense. It’s fierce and mean and evil. Cancer in my BRAIN is nothing compared to this. I have taken her for granted and I am reaping the rewards
I have done the lions share of the damage to our marriage. I have been lazy at home (never at work. I work extremely hard). When we have been in this position I just turn into Superman and it gets better in a couple days boom back to normal. It’s like this time though she wants it to not work. She wants me to fail. When I do good she gets angry about it
I know that if she tried one last time she could be so happy. But it’s like something in her broke and I can’t fix it. And on top of this unbearable pain it hurts even more to see her so miserable. I’m her man. I’m supposed to make everything better. But now I’m the source of her hurt. That’s like water hurting a plant that’s thirsty. I wish I could find the words to describe how I feel but I can’t. I feel so miserable that I have hurt her
And one last thing. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for a couple days
Should I apologize for all that I’ve done wrong to her? Apologize for all the pain I’ve caused? I want to just so she knows. But I don’t want to bring up the R.
Sigh
Also how do you stop a spiral
ozman, thanks for the additional information. That will help as we advise you and try to understand things from your viewpoint.
Yes, marital problems are some of the most difficult things we will ever go through. I've sometimes said "except for health problems". However, I think it ways it is worse than health problems. Losing a spouse via D is on par with losing them to death. The heartbreak and sense of loss can be very similar.
We realize you have some challenges. With your health, and condition, you are going to have to fight an uphill battle. You've admitted to not being a "man", I believe your word was emasculated. ozman, we've seen a lot of sitches come through here and there is one common theme running through theme. The WAW or WW wants an alpha male. I know you have challenges to that, but if you want to save your MR you are going to have to lay aside beta behavior and become an alpha male. Drop the NGS, and become an alpha male. Drop the weepy, sad, depressed guy, and become an alpha male.
For women, attraction follows respect. Gain her respect and you will reattract her. Does that mean you may have to do things that upset her? Yes. For instance, we are pretty clear that for LBHs with a cheating spouse, you should kick her out of the MBR. Most Ws don't like this, but it is a necessary step. She may be upset with you. She may even hate you. But she WILL respect you!
If by becoming "Superman" you mean become a maid, a servant, or a even a spineless guy, then stop being Superman. Become a He-man! Someone she can respect. As R2C said, always be nice, but stand up for yourself and be firm.
If she starts being mean to you in some way, say calmly but firmly; "I will not tolerate being spoken to that way." And then walkaway. Go to another room. Even leave entirely and go for a drive or a walk.
ozman, your goal is to earn her respect. We have a saying around here: it always gets worse before it gets better. So grow a backbone, don't tolerate disrespect. Be an alpha male!
As far as confronting her on a possible affair. Do you think if you say "Are you having an affair?" that she will come clean? One thing about WASs, and WSs in particular, is that they will lie even in the face of evidence! So no, do not ask her about it.
But remain vigilant. I've read a lot of books since my sitch, and one the books talked about a cheating W that didn't respect her H because he had no idea she was in an ongoing affair for over a year. "How could he be so dumb?" was her question.
So remain vigilant. Do her comings and goings make sense? In my sitch, my W would drive my daughter to school and she'd be gone for over an hour! My D's school was less than 10 minutes away. She'd sit in the school parking lot and communicate with her EA partner. (By the way, once I knew about the EA, when she got back home after an hour and half trip that should have taken about 25 minutes to drop of our daughter, I confronted her and told her "Do you think I am stupid?" That stuck with her. For a long time. It definitely earned her respect.
Be vigilant and aware. Take notes so you don't forget things. "On 6/25/2019 she went to the store and was gone for 3 hours. She returned home with a single bag of groceries." Write down everything that doesn't make sense or add up. If she uses a person as an excuse for an absence, talk to the person casually when you get a chance about the occasion. If your wife was gone Monday for unexplained trip, and said "I was at so-and-sos house." The next chance you get ask so-and-so, "so, what did you do Monday?" If they do not include your W in their explanation....write it down. You are gathering evidence.
Compare this list:
Signs Your Spouse Is Cheating
"I love you but I'm not in love with you." ...
"We are just friends." ...
A sudden need for privacy. ...
"I need some space to figure out my feelings." ...
Regular work habits change. ...
Spending a large amount of time on the computer. ...
Secretive phone calls and more time spent on the phone. ...
Behavior that just doesn't add up.
Once you have concrete evidence then you can confront her. Not until. And only confront once you are ready to take action: kicker her out of the MBR, etc.
And one last thing. This is a question I’ve been wanting to ask for a couple days
Should I apologize for all that I’ve done wrong to her? Apologize for all the pain I’ve caused? I want to just so she knows. But I don’t want to bring up the R.
Sigh
Have you apologized for this before?
ozman -
Breathe.
"To me what someone says is what they mean" - You have to fight this thought right now. It is not helpful. When she expresses extreme hurt, you can empathize and see truth in what she says, without accepting it as your reality. It is not 100% your fault.
Re: apologizing - Beware this urge. Words are basically meaningless when situations reach this point. Also, the urge will be to just say "I'm sorry it's all my fault." You sound like you are beating yourself up, saying things are all your fault, etc. This is never true, and also blocks you from really understanding the role you played and how you might be able to change the underlying behaviors and attitudes that have driven you to act in ways that hurt your W.
I felt like I was spiraling a lot the last few months.
Things that didn't help:
- Trying to resolve the emotion by talking, texting, writing letters, or really doing anything at all.
- Ruminating on my MR.
- Spending too much time on the DB forums posting and reading (!)
- Overly reaching out to friends, etc.
Things that did help:
- Do nothing.
- Do something, anything (go for a walk, watch TV, anything that is a distraction).
- Sit with the emotion. Observe how it felt like I was going to pass out or have a heart attack. Know that it will pass in 30-45 minutes. This taught me emotional awareness -- observe, without reacting.
- Meditate (only works when my mind is relatively calm).
- Practice gratitude. Think about the positive things in your life. This one is hard b/c I always heard that advice, and never could really implement this. One day it just clicked.
- Detaching. Exploring the alternatives of what may happen, and understanding in all cases it is on me to create my own happiness.
Also how do you stop a spiral
Go for a drive.
Go for a walk.
Go do something you love to do.
Watch a movie.
Read a book.
Listen to music.
Get busy doing something you need to do (house project, clean the car, mow the lawn, etc)
You said you have no support system, fix that. Find a men's group. FInd a church. There is support out there, you have to go find it.
Remember....all of this is UP TO YOU! You need to take the bull by the horns, like an alpha male would, and realize your circumstances are of your own making! When you realize that then you will realize that it is within your power to change it.
Also, one of my best stress management tools in my sitch, and one of the ways I best dealt with a spiral, was to pray. If you do not know God, then find Him.
Ok thanks Steve. I think I have a hard time telling the difference between alpha behavior and machoism.
Looking back. Many of my problems in my marriage are due to me doing my own thing And GAL without consulting her at all. I would ignore her and chase my own things
So respectfully how is doing that now going to help. I was basically DBing when my R didn’t need it
You apologize once and only once for all shortcomings. Its has been known that WAW/WW will give you all list of discrepancies not to have you improve or change them at BD because they are done. Aware or unaware, But because they are trying to get you to go away because they are breaking it off with you. Its like you telling a old GF all of their contributions of issues to a relationship, because you are done with them and you want them to move on so you can get what you want. Its a break up tactic. Make sense?
And no I don’t think I have ever sat her down and apologized correctly not a wimpy apology But a true blue mans apology to his wife
Ok thanks Steve. I think I have a hard time telling the difference between alpha behavior and machoism.
Looking back. Many of my problems in my marriage are due to me doing my own thing And GAL without consulting her at all. I would ignore her and chase my own things
So respectfully how is doing that now going to help. I was basically DBing when my R didn’t need it
oz - Sometimes the alpha behavior advice does border on machoism. Think of it like a spectrum from "extreme alpha" to "extreme beta". If you are a NG like me (extreme beta), then following macho advice brings you back towards center. If you are already alpha, then being more macho can do harm. You would never tell a narcissist to be more selfish either, but many LBS's here absolutely need to be more selfish.
It's always good to look at potential 180s on behaviors that negatively impacted your MR. If GAL w/o consulting your W at all was a problem, I would suggest not doing that. Many LBS's here have avoided GAL for years, so it is common advice to get out and GAL more. You can always consult your W and GAL:
"Honey, I'm going to go <insert GAL activity here>. Would you like to join me?"
GAL can be as simple as the ideas Steve85 wrote. It doesn't have to mean going off for hours at at time.
Ok thanks Steve. I think I have a hard time telling the difference between alpha behavior and machoism.
Looking back. Many of my problems in my marriage are due to me doing my own thing And GAL without consulting her at all. I would ignore her and chase my own things
So respectfully how is doing that now going to help. I was basically DBing when my R didn’t need it
Doing that GAL in your marriage was wrong. However, post-BD it is the RIGHT thing to do. She asked for time and space. Give it to her.
Also, do not apologize. She won't accept it right now anyway. If she ever decides she is open to reconciling, then you can apologize.
So when I asked her if she wanted divorce and she said “ I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight”. Can someone help me interpret that please
So when I asked her if she wanted divorce and she said “ I don’t know I don’t want to do this tonight”. Can someone help me interpret that please
"Yes, probably. But I don't want to hurt you tonight."
Please start a new thread. Link this one to your new thread and I'll link your new thread to this one since I am locking it.
New thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2854414#Post2854414