My H and I are both Active Duty military and he took an assignment 2 years ago that I agreed to because he said it was the best for him to be set for after retirement. It turned out that he did it to get away from me, but the plan for for all of us to go together. It's been almost 2 years since he left. He has been back in the area multiple times since, he has always stayed with me and our 2 kids, playing house. Then when he would go back to his duty station he would be radio silent...
He served me with D papers last Nov. right after we returned from all being together in WDW. He said he had to because he didn't want me to think that we were okay just because we took a family vacation. The day I got the D papers I had to take our S-10 to the ER because he had a detach retina. The Big D had been on the back burner until Mar of this year when I went to get a settlement agreement, bc he tried to do No-fault & I didn't think that was fair considering we had 2 children.
I have not received anything back from him and it's been months since I sent him the paper work. Fast forward to now. H will be in the area I am (for work) so he initially said he would take 4 wks vacation to spend time with the kids. Initially I told him it wouldn't be best for him to stay with me and the kids anymore, then he shortened his vacation to 2 weeks after I told him that (due to costs for hotel, car). I prayed about it and told him that he could stay with me, but I really wanted him to still take the kids to see his family out of state for 2 weeks.
I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. I know that it's the only opportunity I have to show up, since he lives so far away and we don't really communicate otherwise. The other times that he had stayed with us he acts like we are still married at times, cooking/cleaning, driving when we go somewhere. For the most part I get him set up in a spare bedroom, but a few times he's ended up in mine and it really confuses things, at least for me.
Prior to this, we had a lot of issues. H had multiple EA and 1 PA that I know of. We went to MC and she was the best.
She gave me DB in one of my private sessions. He always frequently viewed sites on the internet... I'm pretty sure he still does.
I think that the MLC happened after his friend was killed by a driver, while he was riding his bike. He was never the same after he attended the funeral that was 4 years ago.
I also think that it's important to mention that after he left I didn't really practice DB, didn't GAL, I did the opposite for almost 2 years, I gained quite a bit of weight. Is it too late now to start DB?
Thanks if you made it through this and I apologize if the flow it choppy,
Suzy
I am posting Cadet's Welcome Posting for your review and reading purposes.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Me-65, D32,S31
It is never too late.
However, I see he is addicted to porn, conducting EAs and had 1 PA you know about.
So rule #1 for you should not be to make saving the MR the highest priority. In fact, you should be walking away from him. If he ever wants to come back, DO NOT LET HIM WALTZ BACK IN. He has a lot of work to do, some serious therapy to undergo, and needs to put in work to come back.
So DB. But even if he is responsive, make sure he does his own work to come back.
Oh, and I would tell him he is not welcome in the MBR anymore. Guest bedroom, or out of the house, but not in the MBR. He is a cheater with a porn addiction. Protect yourself.
Thank you. I'm actually reading that section about online activity in DR right now and I was always told that "I'm insecure" "everyone does it" and that "it's normal".
I completely agree with you, I just hope that something will happen for him to realize that he needs to put in some work on himself. He thinks that he has no issues to resolve.
I will head your advice. TY.
Today I went to the gym and exercised for an hour. It felt really nice to take some time out for me. I should have done this as soon as H walked away. Here's to finally practicing GAL!!!
Suzy, I agree with Steve, your priority should be in protecting you and the kids rather than trying to lure your H back. If you know of multiple EA and 1 PA then it's a safe bet there are many more you don't know about. Most cheaters will never give up their cheating ways, so I don't see him repenting of that unless he truly hits rock bottom and realizes he has destroyed his life.
I also agree with Steve that he should NOT be allowed into your bedroom, in fact I think your first inclination of not letting him come home at all was the right one. Let him deal with the inconvenience of a hotel room, that's on him for leaving you.
I think that the MLC happened after his friend was killed by a driver, while he was riding his bike. He was never the same after he attended the funeral that was 4 years ago.
Could be, but my response to that is that he is a grown-ass man that should know better than to wreck his family over the loss of someone close. If that's how he conducts his grief management then he is a hot mess.
I'm actually reading that section about online activity in DR right now and I was always told that "I'm insecure" "everyone does it" and that "it's normal".
Sure everyone does it, but "normal" is looking now and then. If he's spending a lot of time looking at porn then he is addicted and that is most definitely not normal and should not be acceptable to you.
He thinks that he has no issues to resolve.
Exactly why you need to leave him be. He's got to figure out YOU are not the problem, HE is. And that might take him a long while.
Don't worry about the distance, that's actually a good thing. The more he's away from you the more he will realize you're not the source of his problems.
Never too late to make changes. Make them about you. Great advice given by previous posters
I'm reading DR too.
Thank you CB. This is hopeful.
Thank you AS. I’m trying to figure out what to do since he will be here on Sunday. My sister will be visiting as well, then I go to work on Monday... so I’m just planning to go to the gym maybe 2x a day to give him more 1:1 time with the kids. In the past, we would do family dinners where he and I cooked, had wine and even one day he said hey hun it’s pizza and movie night right?! Just like old times.
I do miss that, but I don’t want to fall back into letting him cake eat so I will definitely be loving from a distance and keeping myself busy. I want to use this time to get focus on my physical health because that when to sh!t once he left and I put in a lot of weight by emotional eating.
I’m glad to have this outlet to vent during those times it’s tough for me.
Thank you Steve. I literately spent 12 +hours reading through your threads and it gives me hope. I agree with you and I realize I let a lot of time slip by without DB and it seems sometimes it’s too late. H has a lot he needs to deal with and I will lovingly let him from a distance.
What are some ideas for GAL when you have 2 kids. I don’t have family close. I did start ruing this week but I don’t think that’s enough.
What are some ideas for GAL when you have 2 kids. I don’t have family close. I did start ruing this week but I don’t think that’s enough.
This is a post 25 made about her GAL while she was living in Alaska during the winter and taking care of kids (if she can GAL in those conditions there's no excuse for anyone not to GAL!):
25’s GAL:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...t&Number=2752796&nt=7&page=7Jim
For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids including a baby.
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. And imo, we cannot detach without GAL.
I believe the more you overcome inertia, and feel detachment, an ironic by product will be better R's with all people, including your w.
All of these upped my self esteem.
Okay so I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.
I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
*I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.
*Rehearsing one night, I realized it had been hours without me thinking about H or our m, or doing any obsessing, & that was huge. Even more importantly, I learned to be IN the moment. When you do live theater, You cannot waste time regretting a missed cue earlier, and you have to think on your feet and ad lib and not think about the next act or anticipate things. There is only "now" and you make the best of that moment.
It's a wonderful important experience, and lesson for life I think.
*I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well and again, you are in the moment and reacting to the audience, so you perform and listen. And the more you learn to laugh at things that would otherwise make you uncomfortable, the smoother a lot of life becomes.
You have probably heard that the line between tragedy and comedy is a fine one, and it's true.
I learned to cross country ski, became a better downhill skier.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at shooting. Learned some patience too, and respect nature more.
I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding it. Jetskiing is great if you are near water in a warm place.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license. Ground school for flying challenged a different part of my brain, as did learning to fly. Jim - I know you have the height issue/fear, but thing is, flying a plane isn't like peering over the edge of a bridge. Know what I mean?
And I edited a hunting book for a hunting guide/friend up there. The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?
I worked out 3-4 times a week, and got in excellent shape. As you know, Looking good makes a world of difference to us. Found a (female) work out partner and began socializing after the work outs. As you mention, the endorphin affect matters.
I was trying to lose the baby weight and It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark cold Long winters. Totally worth the efforts. In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me feel more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps me feel better.
I saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.
Took a pottery class (very different and unlike me to do, but my friend needed a pottery partner and I'm glad I went. I liked it a lot & took another class last winter.
Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.
I Wish I had joined sooner. I met two women who got me thru a dark time and are life long friends to this day.
Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking
There is more, but these are all things you can do that do not cost a lot. Other than pilot training/skydiving, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.
If you like music, check that out.
Good luck.
Hi,
I am sorry you are here. This is a great place for support and advice because everyone here is essentially going through, or already did, a similar sitch. It takes a very long time, but it will get better, whether you save the M or not.
I wanted to backtrack a moment. And I am sorry to be blunt. What is it you would like to save? Can you tell us more about the type of partner you are looking for in him? Is he worth the effort is what I am getting at?
You are describing a man that has been dishonest, had multiple As and is coming/going as he pleases. You said you want to make sure you are doing this (DBing and saving the M) right, however my first thought is -- why do you want to save the M? He even told you he filed for D and then he still comes/goes as he wants? Ouch. :-(
I tend to take a little bit of a different approach here. I read posts by women that describe how poorly their H is treating them and in the same breath they want to know how they can win this guy back. I have literally cringed reading these things. My thoughts are -- don't you want a man that treats you and your kids right? Don't you deserve this? Why are you trying to save this?
Yes, this is a M saving site. Mostly, what we learn here as we do the readings and attempt to start the hard work (GAL, 180s and detachment) is that we cannot make another person change. We cannot make them come back to us, we cannot make them be a good partner and we cannot save THEM at all! We cannot control other people. Ever. People sometimes get frustrated and leave when we tell them that, but really think about it -- how can you save a M by forcing someone to do something they don't want to do?
What we absolutely can do is save ourselves after being wounded by another! We can treat ourselves the way we deserve to be treated, we can value ourselves more than to cling on to a toxic person, and we can find our strong/beautiful/worthy self. This serves two purposes: we learn to be a happier, healthier and confident person again (because let's face it, we lose that in this mess) and 2, it increases the chance they even want to come back at all. So yes, letting them go and focusing on us, is ultimately also what may attract them back to us.
Blu
Thank you for this I found it very helpful!!
Thanks Blu,
To offer some more information. I do believe that he PA was a 1 time thing but I can't say that he has not been involved with anyone since he left almost 2 years ago. As far as the EA, it is through private messages via social media and every time, alcohol has been a factor.
I know that H seems like the hot mess that he is, but I really cherish our relationship, especially when it was healthy, he wasn't drinking as much and we would spend time together. I don't want anyone to think that alcohol is an excuse to go out and send many women flirtatious messages in the same night, but for me it was always the constant. When he wasn't drinking that didn't happen.
Since he's been away I have noticed that his drinking has picked up a lot and the only thing he's really 180'd on is his physical appearance, like working out and baking the heck out of his skin in a tanning bed.
I do believe that he is going through a MLC and due to this childhood issues I really feel for him and I know that I will always be there for him, but I know he needs to go though this solo. He grew up without a g
The partner that I am looking for is sober and drinks responsibly. He also would have to be careful about the "friends" he has. When we have solid friends that have the same values as us he seems to be grounded and more of a man if that makes sense. When he gets around other friends that are single, he gets a FOMO mentality...
It could be a lost cause, but I know I need to do everything I can to try to turn this around for peace and closure on my end. I did not DB when he left. I broke pretty much all of Sandi's guidelines and pushed him away.
At least I will become the person any fool would leave.
I see what you mean. Sadly, alcohol seems to be a factor in a lot of our sitches here. I agree, its never an excuse, but it really is a contributing factor. .... I think it helps for you to spell out what you want and what your goals are for your M. As you begin to talk about it and describe it, it keeps your eye on what you want and what you are aiming for. You know the type of H and partner you want. You can describe it clearly and recall how he used to be. It can also be a sad reminder that he is not that person right now. It's terribly sad, but a truth, and a truh you unfortunately cannot overlook. ... 2 years is a long time. I am really sorry you have been dealing with this for so long!
I completely agree with the GAL advice. I tend to think the best advice here is 1. reading and following Sandi's rules every day, and 2. GAL -- and trying new things, meeting new people, and simply stepping out of your comfort zone daily, even in small ways. It feels good to know we can do new things and even surprise ourselves. It builds confidence and character. It also takes our minds off of them and their drama. That doesnt help us move forward.
Blu
Yes, 2 years is a really long time.
I am really hoping that when he get's here on Sunday that everything goes a smoothly as possible. Thank you for your input.
I definitely do need to define what my goals are and what I want for the M. I know I do want some of the old things that we had but I definitely had bigger dreams for us as a couple.
I also need to buy DR, because I have it checked out from the library, but I think I need to keep re-reading it.
This platform is great. I appreciate all of the feedback and I feel less alone.
RE: GAL, when I was freshly divorced 8yrs ago--time flies!--I joined "Meetup" groups aimed at single parents and took my kids with me on hikes, sometimes carrying one on my shoulders. A 10-year-old is often old enough to be left independently for short periods of time, e.g. 30-60 minutes while you walk or jog.
Hey Suzy,
Married MIL-MIL is a tough thing. Sorry that you are here but happy that you found this site.
I am a career military guy, 21 years so far. Its been tough with only one of us deploying. With 2 deploying it really complicates things. I was gone for a year and came home to the papers and restraining orders. Its hard.
Do not excuse the A, or behaviors otherwise.
Be strong, make some goals for yourself and actually do them!
For GAL, my kids are 11 and 8, they don't get to use tablets at my place. We always get out and do something. Find a new park, go bike riding on new trails, bowling, planning a camping trip with my sister next month, hike up a trail to a waterfall, etc. I always cooked when we lived together; I always make it a point to cook them their favorites. Eating out is a minimal activity. W takes them out regularly anyway.
Thank you CW!
I started this week using the gym in my office. So far it’s going well. Most days when I get home I’m in chill mode or playing catch-up with laundry and errands. I do leave my 11 yo S alone to spend time with my D 6.
This weekend was interesting. I DB'd the best I could.
I GAL and noticed some 180's, my sister and her 4 kids came to visit. We had so much fun we went to a park and played mini golf and got the kids ice cream. They played and had a blast. My H arrived on Sat afternoon and when he got in the house, he seemed confused that I had company (I 180'd and didn't run this by him first). I told him that my sister was here visiting for a few day. He paused for a second then said "okay" and went to surprise the kids.
That afternoon we went to a playground and everyone had so much fun. My son and H played BB and the little kids played and ran around. That evening I made homemade pizzas (one of the things that my H and I loved to do together is cook). I prepared a few different kinds and delivered them to my H and my sister. We had wine and a good conversation. My H was in the living room watching a movie with the kids so I stayed with my sister to visit in the dining room.
When it was bedtime, he attempted to give me a hug so I gave him a short 1/2 hug and took the kids to bed.
On Sunday we went swimming I drove to the pool, but H took the keys to come home. I did slip and flirt a little. I told him that he looked good driving my car, he smiled. After we got back home H went to the store after because my sister requested that he make some food. He's very talented and makes some amazing dishes. He jumped at the offer. When he is away, he doesn't cook anymore, but when he comes back home, that passion he has comes back. I know he loves to cook for other people and I'm glad he did that. He also asked for my help in the kitchen, I'm trying not to read into it too much, but it definitely felt nice.
That night, I tucked my kids in and he gave me a big hug, I went in for the real thing but kept it brief.
This morning I got a ride to work and left my car at home so he could take our S somewhere for his B-day.
I'm at work with healthy meals packed and I'm going to the gym around lunchtime.
I feel so good about all of this. I will continue to DB and practice my life-long 180's.
Things I know I need to work on... physical appearance-looking my best when he's around--not waiting on him so much. I have always catered to him without him asking. Like bringing him a cup of coffee in the morning, having a breakfast prepared that he would need to re-heat (I didn't make him anything today).
I do feel like I'm making progress and will keep y'all updated.
LB, I'm sorry to hear that happened to you and yes, MIL-MIL is tough!!!
I really wish that I will arrive at retirement with my family intact. That is the goal. We've experienced so much and it seems like it's a lot of sacrifice for nothing if it ends with a D.
I am working on setting up some goals for myself and seeing them through. I am experiencing some mental resistance with that.
I am trying to focus more on getting out of the house to do things, my kids really enjoy their screen time. A little too much.
Suzy,
I am confused at where things stand at the moment. So your H had multiple As, he moved out of the house (when?) and he filed for D last Nov (or said he would), is that correct? So he more recently started coming over for family time or that has been a constant since he left?
So he comes over for family time -- homemade pizza, some hugging and flirting from you -- and then he goes back to his place for his single life? I think you see where I am going with this .... we call this cake eating and unfortunately they usually do not come around and want to R when this happens. And why would they? They can have the benefits of a M and family life and then leave and have the benefits of single life. Or did I miss something in your posts? (sorry if I did, I have read several new threads recently).
Here is what I have found reading here for 5 years and in my own sitch with a wayward husband (WH) that came back to our M over 4 years ago. WH do not come back to their wives (Ws) until they believe that they are losing them. As long as the W is plan B (he knows he can have her if his plan A doesn't work out or if he changes his mind) then he will not come back. He may enjoy the cake and come/go as he pleases, but he will not make changes, do the hard work, or recommit to the M. Actually, in the mean time, the relationship corrodes as he loses respect for her.
He loses respect for her because she does not value herself and tell him, "enough is enough." You see a strong and confident woman does not let her H come and go and do what he wants like this. She demands that she is treated right, that he commits to her and the family, and that if he made mistakes, that he is willing to do whatever it takes to show her change and earn her back.
Suzy, does any of this ring true for you? Does your H know you are his plan B?
Blu
Blu,
Apparently I am confused too. The PA was in 2009, the EA (flirting over social media has been ongoing, he doesn't consider at a problem because they are his friends) have been going on throughout the M.
Since he left in 2017, every time he has come back for work he has stayed in our home (we sold our house in 2018, that's a long story, BL we had 3 houses for 4 months because our buyers backed out right before closing and I had already moved) and my rental. I would estimate he's probably been back and staying with us about 7-8x/year. He also came for X-mas, thanksgiving... He has never stayed in a hotel. I'm guessing he probably should have. My rational behind him staying with me now is that he would be able to notice my 180's, but you are right--it's cake eating.
I appreciate your advice and it makes total sense. I never thought that he would lose respect for me but I can see in ways where he may have.
I know that I told him when he sent the D papers that I was going to press forward because it's what he wanted. He never said he had too he just kept saying I think we need to see it through. I told him if that was the case that I wanted him to know that I would always be there for him (ugh plan B).
I am really kicking myself for not valuing myself enough from the beginning of the separation. I can't go back and change anything I just hope that going forward it's worth DB-ing. When he left initially I should have started DB & 180's, I got so depressed and couldn't function. I'm sure that was a total turn-off.
I was under the impression that we were still together and going through a rough patch, just getting a lot of mixed signals but I think he knew that I am plan B...
Thank you. I'm not sure where to really go from here. I'm worried that if I make him get a hotel, that he won't be able to notice me, but maybe that will give him an opportunity to miss me. Idk...
A few days have past and I'm trying to detach, while still doing my 180's.
We did have a family dinner last night and I took the kids with me to run some errands. H is staying in the guest room.
Does anyone have any advice on what I should be doing. I feel like I'm going about this all wrong...
I am a little confused. You mention that you are kicking yourself for allowing the cake eating, but he is still staying in the home in the guest room. Is there a way that you can create some boundaries that protect you from this? I feel like if someone wants to leave their family, claim they want D, then they should stay somewhere else and start actng as if they are D. Do you think he knows what it feels like to actually lose you and family time? Would he begin to miss that?
Blu
He definitely doesn’t know how it would feel to lose me. Initially I told him he wouldn’t be able to stay because I felt that it was the right thing to do. He was supposed to have 4 weeks with the kids. When I told him that he changed it to a week because he’d have to stay in a hotel and get a rental car.
I was really disappointed that he would do that to the kids so I told him we could discuss it and I didn’t have an account on here yet to get advice at that time. I told him he could stay in the guest room and that I’d leave my car so they could do what they planned. It seems like I’m enabling the cake eating ...
I have never really set boundaries to protect myself. I just hate that the kids would be affected by this. They are already having a hard time. With him in the home everything is calm and peaceful. Lots of laughter and quality time.
I need some help working through this because I’m really torn.
I have been keeping myself very busy so I’m not around much. Going to work early and getting out to run my weekend errands after work.
H does seem a bit sad at times and I notice him looking at me and the kids more, like taking in the moments.
I’m thinking my next move is having him go to the hotel once his work starts and telling him to plan ahead for next time. Thoughts?
This weekend went well
I totally took advantage of having H in the house. I ran my errands early and got a lot done. I woke up early and walked 2 miles on Saturday and ran the same route Sunday afternoon.
I did a bunch of laundry and didn’t do H clothes like I normally would have. 180
We did stay up on Friday and Saturday bc H bought wine and cheese. He also cooked for us. I had a few glasses each night and enjoyed spending time with him without expectation.
H will be leaving in the next few days to take kids to visit his family out of state for about 10 days. I'm looking forward to having some time to go through some things around the house and to only have to worry about myself. =)
I do have an event (PD conference) that I had coordinated with him in January, he was supposed to have the kids during that time but now his job conflicts. I need to find a good way to tell him that once I'm back from the event and his work starts that he needs to move his things out and into the hotel.
I'm not sure how to address this. I was thinking maybe a text would be appropriate since that's how he communicates 99.9% of things that are important.
My H is taking our 2 kids to visit family for the next 10 days.
This is the first time I’ll be away from them in almost 2 years. I’m going to keep myself busy. I feel so sad.
H also asked about getting me something for my birthday (from the kids) and I told him it wasn’t necessary. I’m not really sure what to do about any of this.
SzyL,
I am sorry this is hard for you. I can see your struggle. Can you think of the 10 days as a gift of time and self discovery, rather than a loss and loneliness? It can be really hard to shift our perspective in that way, especially when we are feeling down and out, but it can be very, very effective. What if this were 10 days that you planned for yourself? What types of things would you fill them up with? I am not great about remembering to make lists, but when I do, it feels great to do them and cross them off. Can you put a list together of tasks and GAL activities while they are gone? Commit to a couple each day. Do things you enjoy that your family doesn't. One of the silver linings in my sitch, was that I learned to be more independent, enjoy my alone time more, and also realized that I don't actually need my H to be okay in life. No one does. It is all about perspective.
Regarding him staying at your house, well I think that is massive cake eating. If you read any of my posts, you will see that I take a very hard line approach. I tend to think that WH will not even reconsider coming back until they actually lose their W and family time. He has to know that you are not plan B, that you are fine without him, and that you are moving on with your life. That means ZERO cake, ZERO pursuit, going dark, and only responding to emails about kids/finances. He moved out and told you he wanted D, so you are planning your life accordingly. Look, when people move on, get D, and date other people, they rarely ever have a friendship, family time, and stay with one another. So by allowing that now, it just smacks of desperation. He doesn't want to come back to that even if at times he enjoys the cake of family.
On the flip side, if he saw a beautiful, strong and confident woman, much like the woman he met, and she was moving on with her life and had lost any interest in him at all, well wouldn't you know, he would surely be having second thoughts and might even feel like he needs to hurry up before it's too late ....You know which WH that messes up and then comes running home and begging the W to take them back? It is the W that puts her foot down, let's go, and moves on without looking back, because she knows she is the prize and it's his loss. She is not sad, needy, and desperately waiting for time with him or hoping he will return. She is confident, completely disinterested and detached in a guy like that, but also able to be cordial for the kids sake (she is not Plan B). It might feel pretty arse backwards, but this is human nature. He wants what he cannot have. But those LBWs do not post here, because they are not trying to save their M, so we cannot see it ...
My best advice to you -- and anyone here -- get Audible on your phone and your first book is free. The best thing I have heard in awhile is "The Subtle Art Of Not Giving A F-uck." By author M.M. I thought it would be cheesy self help book but it is so much more than that. It is brillant, insightful and down right hilarious. The way he reads it and is this great story teller, is sheer entertainment too. It will no doubt help you gather a much greater perspective of your life during this mess.
Blu
Ty Blu,
I have listened to his book, it was my 1st audio book. I will listen again because I need a refresher, plus I love his voice.
I did make a list of things to do daily. For the most part I achieved them each day. The weekend was rough because the weather was very stormy and I wanted to stay inside.
Walk outside
10K steps
1 G of water
Read
Tidy up
I did walk a 5 mile trail around a lake that I could never get anyone to agree to and that was really fulfilling. I did watch a season of a tv show too.
My birthday was this weekend and I did get a package from H. He told me he was getting me something from the kids and I firmly told him not to, but he did it anyway. I left the package on the table and I told him I'd open it once the kids got home...
I also got a card from my M-I-L, It basically said that family times are better with me, that I'm a joy, Happy Birthday... It had me feeling very indifferent.
I have not been texting H that much since they have been away. Just being polite and keeping it short and sweet.
I do need to work in GAL because I do not do well when I feel lonely. I did eat my emotions and that had me feeling like crap.
Yesterday H asked me for my flight information... Idk why and didn’t ask.
I’m traveling next week to a personal development conference. I did send him a screenshot and he said thanks.
Okay I need help. My H leaves soon and I need to set clear boundaries, I think it’s best to do it in person.
I’m thinking about saying that I’m glad I was able to help with summer for the kids sake, but going forward he will need to not stay in the family home. That we need healthy boundaries going forward and I know that’s a good start.
What am I missing?
I don’t know if there’s more I should say, but I was to detach so he can work through what he’s going through and so I can keep GAL and thriving. I have been following Sandis guidelines and it seemed at times like H was enjoying being around me, but I really feel confident its time to detach and end the cake eating.
[Journal]
I have a lot of anxiety today leading up to this boundary setting conversation that will happen tonight.
I want it to come from a place of strength and love without seeming cold.
The boundaries I will set are:
- Him not being welcome in my home going forward. (part of me wants to add unless we are reconciling the marriage, but I think that may be too much)
- Limiting communication to be about the kids and using email, he can call if it is an emergency (he likes to not respond to texts and he's hung up on me a few times in the past).
- Closing out the joint account and having him send the support money to my personal account.
I have read and re-read the posts on boundaries and it makes me feel so uncomfortable. I guess that's the point though.
...
I feel so sick about all of this. My stomach is in knots. I know it's for the best, it is seeming to be very difficult.
This visit w H was very nice for our kids and we did spend some QT together, cooking and watching our old favorite shows. I did get out and GAL as much as possible, but the time spent together was definitely bittersweet.
I just don't want this feeling to scare me out of making sure this conversation happens face to face before he leaves.
- Him not being welcome in my home going forward. (part of me wants to add unless we are reconciling the marriage, but I think that may be too much)
I'm not sure what you mean by this? If you mean you don't want him just coming over and hanging out in the house that's fine, say something like "Now that you've moved out I feel like I could use some time to adjust to this new living situation, so I would appreciate it if you could respect my privacy from now on" and then maybe give some details on what that means. As an example, after my XW moved out she would just come over and let herself in and go through things. I finally told her "I would appreciate it if you could respect my privacy and let me know in advance if you plan on coming over, and knock on the door when you get here and I will let you in. Also please try and get the rest of your stuff out by XX date so we can be done with this." A lot of WAS's do the "slow bleed" thing where they find all kinds of excuses to come over to grab a pair of shoes they forgot or whatever. Of course they would be SHOCKED if you went to their new place and just walked in, the nerve! But they certainly have no problem making themselves at home at your place!
- Limiting communication to be about the kids and using email, he can call if it is an emergency (he likes to not respond to texts and he's hung up on me a few times in the past).
Sounds reasonable. Just try to use "I" language. "I need some time to adjust, it would help me if we limit contact to kids, I hope you understand."
- Closing out the joint account and having him send the support money to my personal account.
I'm curious why you want to do this? You can leave the joint account open and whenever he pays into it just transfer it into your account, correct? If this hasn't been a problem you might leave it as-is for now.
Why the first boundary? Do you NOT want to welcome him into your home? If you are saying he has a key, then just ask him for the key back.
On the second boundary, that is one you can enforce without telling him you are setting it. When he calls, let it go to VM. If it is about the kids respond with a text. When he texts, ignore it unless it is about the kids.
Why is the last one a big deal? Can't you just transfer the money to your personal account after he deposits it in the joint account?
When he comes to my location on business trips or for vacation to see the kids, he ends up staying at my home and ultimately we end up playing house. I go back to doing laundry for him, bringing coffee, making breakfast....I’ve even gone as far to walk a mile to take the bus to work so he would have my ride to get around. He must find me super pathetic.
This time it wasn’t as bad as I have been GAL and detaching. Still I need him out of the cake eating environment and I need to stop enabling it.
I think I’m good with the contact boundary.
The joint account just because he had a few transactions come out and if I didn’t leave a balance it would’ve gone negative.
Steve
Good advice. I explained above about wanting him out of my home. To add that he left, wants the D and has eaten cake over the past 2 years. Sometimes I served it mistakenly thinking we were working on things. Every time he would return to his duty station he’s forget about me and the kids until he came to my location for work or vacation. I also have suspicions about an EA too because of messages he sends and he also told me about this “friendship “ with the secretary. I learned about this in December. He said he really likes her and she’s married with kids too and they haven’t hugged yet.... since then I’m not so sure. I guess I’d like to protect my mental health and force him to lose this family he left so he can either fight for it or not. Either way I need to get better. He was texting her a few days ago right when we were having wine and watching our old favorite shows.
I’m good with the communication unspoken boundary.
The joint account I can keep open.
Lilly, do you feel mentally prepared for tonight?
Heck no!
I think I’m just going to keep it as brief as possible.
You sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. Stay strong!
Thank you. Hopefully I don’t mess this up.
Lilly - Regarding the communication stuff, I absolutely agree. Use e-mail for almost everything, and limit it to only necessary exchanges (kids, etc). Backup would be a call, text should be the last resort. Text messaging is the single worst form of communication, and I won't bore you with all the reasons why.
My W and I use e-mail, and set up a weekly call (with an agenda we share via e-mail ahead of time) to cover issues with the kids, finances, etc. It was awkward at first but clearly working well. We have cut out text almost entirely unless it's a "who what when where" logistic one. Text caused a ton of blow-ups previously.
Brief as possible, calm as possible. Once you start talking you will feel some relief. If the emotions swell up, take a breath, pause a beat, recognize the emotion, and stick to your plan. You can do this!
Thank you. We are definitely in the same boat with the texting BS.
I will report back once I’m done.
Okay so quick update
I was not able to follow through last night because my gut told me the timing was not right. As soon as I got in the door, I discovered H had been cooking one of my favorite dishes and he was a few glasses of wine in by the time I got home. The vibe was really depressing... The kids were already very sad and I could see that H eyes were glazed over and he was on the verge of tears.
I ate (the meal was amazing) and declined the wine, then proceeded to practice yoga for 30 minutes.
When we put the kids (S-11, D-6) to bed they both cried themselves to sleep and my H was clearly upset. I followed him downstairs and asked how he was doing. He said that he was just watching television. I told him I could see that, but I could tell he was upset and that I would keep him company so he wasn't alone feeling the way he did. I ended up staying up until a little after midnight. He reminisced and reflected on the time with the kids and I just listened and validated him. I told him I needed to get some sleep since I still had to work and he hugged me (very tight and had his head on my shoulder) for a few minutes. I ultimately let go first and he kept saying over and over again how much he appreciated me and all of the things I did for him. I told him that he was welcome and the kids really needed that time with him and that I was glad it worked out.
As far as the boundaries.
I am going to take Steve's advice with the communication and not necessarily lay it out, just implement it.
I am not worried about the joint account anymore, hopefully he has all of his things switched over so it doesn't become overdrawn.
He does have another business trip in a few weeks that will bring him back to my location. Before he arrives I am going to send him a email or letter to let him know that I can't have him stay in the home (playing house, it's really a mind F....). I just need to find the right words. I do appreciate all of the positive feedback and insight from yesterday.
"I followed him downstairs and asked how he was doing."
Okay, new 180. Don't do this ever again.
Yeah listening and validating is fine, but good grief he's the one that fired you as wife, you don't need to be his emotional support system to get him through this "difficult time" OF HIS OWN MAKING!!! Let him wallow in self-despair, he deserves a little of that.
Lilly - I agree with Steve85 and AS.
Also... I'm concerned about your kids and how this situation is impacting them. It sounded from your post like your H came over and kind of got everyone emotionally stirred up. I know sometimes here we focus on the spouse dynamic but when kids are involved that does change things sometimes.
I am in a physical S with my wife, and I have 3 small kids. My W was telling me the other day that D3 as asking her if she was going to die, and this was really hard for my W to hear. I listened and validated, and then also shared that D3 was having a difficult time at my house. D3 will tell me "Don't leave, I miss you" and start bawling. I did not share my own feelings with my W, but it crushes my heart. Internally I'm very upset because I feel like this was avoidable had we worked on our MR. I'm sharing this to point out that I want my W and I to communicate about how our kids are adjusting, but as far as my W feeling down, it's all going to be listening and validating full stop.
I almost think of what happened for you as emotional cake-eating. The WAS wants to leave, but they keep grabbing at the parts of the MR that they liked. Your H likes your emotional support - well, it's a package deal, if you don't upgrade to the "Fully invested in the MR" package, you don't get the free "emotional support" add-on.
-Another update- Reminder we are both Active Duty Military
H left yesterday. I texted him and asked how the kids are doing and he said he dropped D off and she seemed fine at
the daycare center
I told him that's great and I said safe travels!!!
He wrote back. Thank you and thanks again for letting me stay with the kids it was truly wonderful.
I'm going to respond (probably via email) and say...
The next time you put money or work as a priority over spending time with your children, I will not be there to fix the
situation to accommodate your poor planning.
(Initially I told him that he could NOT stay with me and that he would need to get a hotel. When I did that, he said he would have to shorten the time with the kids because he couldn't afford the car and lodging cost, so I told him he could stay with us, but that he needed to go out of state to visit his family for a portion of it)
cont..You left this family and have moved on with plans that do not include our family. I am still trying to find my way and I would appreciate that you respect my privacy and space while I go through this. I was thinking about maybe adding that playing house and faking the family is not a part of my healing and finding my way.
Thanks AS,
It's so confusing for me but you are right.
Unchien - Thank you!
I know that is not great for the kids. The problem is that initially when he was permanently moved to his next duty assignment (he is in a different state now, but has duty often in my location-the one he left), we were all supposed to go, but I was not successful with getting a job placement and our home was still on the market. He did admit before he left that he wanted to try being separated so he could figure things out. This never happened because every time he returned to my location for business, he would stay at the family home we'd play happy family.... He never got into therapy or did any soul seeking (that's what he said he needed to do).
You are right, I need to stop the add-ons until he's fully invested because it was definitely emotional cake eating, plus laundry cake eating, racking up my utility bill cake eating, consuming the food I buy cake eating... I could go on. =)
I really feel for my kids though. The do not understand and they think that dad will be back when he can.
Boundary idea: "You can come to the home once you start going to IC"
I'm not even sure if that is a good enough boundary (going to IC alone may not be enough), but at least you are calling him out on his actions being inconsistent with his words.
-Another update- Reminder we are both Active Duty Military
H left yesterday. I texted him and asked how the kids are doing and he said he dropped D off and she seemed fine at
the daycare center
I told him that's great and I said safe travels!!!
He wrote back. Thank you and thanks again for letting me stay with the kids it was truly wonderful.
That all sounds perfect, so why would you want to ruin it with this:
I'm going to respond (probably via email) and say...
The next time you put money or work as a priority over spending time with your children, I will not be there to fix the
situation to accommodate your poor planning.
Don't do that. Just leave things on a positive note. If the situation comes up again, then you can address it.
(Initially I told him that he could NOT stay with me and that he would need to get a hotel. When I did that, he said he would have to shorten the time with the kids because he couldn't afford the car and lodging cost, so I told him he could stay with us, but that he needed to go out of state to visit his family for a portion of it)
Whose fault is this? See the bolded part. Next time just don't offer.
I like the idea of this, but I'm not sure how I would present this to him.
It was extremely difficult to get him to MC.. I'm not sure if he'd even try IC, but I wish he would. I know he has a lot of unresolved issues from his childhood.
Thank you for the feedback. I'm glad I wasn't so quick to write back.
I am not sure if it's the right thing to do to allow him to stay in my home. I don't want to miss an opportunity for him to see me changing, but at the same time, the coming and going hurts and I end up thinking that he's taking advantage of me.
He never got into therapy or did any soul seeking (that's what he said he needed to do).
It was extremely difficult to get him too MC. I'm not sure if he's even try IC, but I wish he would.
OK, I guess I was pointing out that your H said he needed help, but his actions did not match his words. So he knows he has issues but has chosen not to take steps to address them. That must be incredibly frustrating.
Humans do this all the time... we tell ourselves little lies. I'm sure your H thinks he is aware of his issues, and thus he is making progress on them. So he can walk around guilt-free because he said he needed therapy, but never actually goes.
You are right that you cannot control whether or not he goes to IC. And the best approach would be to treat the "playing family" stuff separately from his issues (to remove the control/pressure issue). But you could point out that he himself mentioned going (in some way). Actions following words are the only way to build trust, IMO.
I don't know the right approach, Lilly. I know from your perspective it feels like he was just paying lip-service to the idea but was not really serious. I think a lot of times people really do think "Yes, I'll go to therapy, at some point" and then just never do it. And you are left sitting thinking "he must not really want to work through it". I have no clue if I am right about your H's intentions. I've spent many years aware of my issues, dipping my toe in the water to work on them. Finally now with proper motivation I am diving into the deep end.
It is true that therapy never works if the person is resistant (and the therapist cannot break down that resistance). This is why MC fails a lot of the time, because one partner feels dragged to it.
You show him you've changed by not inviting him to stay in your home.
Okay JRuss,
When I think about this it makes me feel uneasy.
I am worried that I will look like the bad guy. He is expected to be back early next month and my kids are looking forward to it.
It is a short business trip but maybe that's what is needed like you said.
You are right, it is very frustrating.
He didn't do any of the work and now he seems like he has all of his plans in place, but he doesn't seem too happy.
I am not sure of the right approach either. I just need to keep working on myself, GAL and doing 180s. I think he told me what he thought I needed to hear so that when he left I wouldn't cause any drama. I really trusted that he was going to do the right thing, but ultimately feel like he played me.
Since H left on Tuesday he hasn’t reached out to kids. I told him I noticed he hadn’t called and asked if he was okay. He said he was having a hard time bc he was feeling guilty...
My D is having a really difficult time dealing with this and she has been very upset.
He did call today to check what they got for back to school shopping. It was extremely brief.
Part of my mind wanders thinking he’s keeping himself busy with someone else...
I asked H to split the school shopping and he said that’s why he sends me $ each month to cover things like that....
It seems unfair because we don’t have any written agreement... help!
Journaling...
I'm not sure what to do w. H. I'm annoyed with another bill to cover by myself, there is no agreement how much he should be contributing... He just came up with a number. When I got legal counsel they told me he was underpaying by a few hundred/month.
S had a birthday in June. H, did not contribute... Now the back to school supplies and clothing. It just seems like BS and I don't know how to handle it.
He is taking advantage of the situation for his own benefit....
Unchein,
That is a good point. His actions show that he is better off without me. Except for the excessive drinking, abandonment toward the kids. He just has a completely different life, but when he is coming here he get's to have a piece of what he left.
I wish that I could bring that up to him, because it is hard for me to trust him to do the right thing. I really wish he would go, because it would help him so much. I guess he will have to arrive at that point in his own time to get help. If that every happens.
LillyL, most LBSs, for some reason, are resistant to talk to an attorney. Don't be. You have legal rights and you need to make sure you are legally protected.
So go consult with an attorney.
Steve,
Thank you. I have done that because I felt the financial burden when both of the kids were in FT summer care, so I thought that he should be providing more. I did get the amount that is required for my state and submitted to H. When I sent the information about the discrepancy with the updated "child support," H said that he doesn't have to pay the full amount because when he sees the kids he incurs an expense because he has to fly... It isn't entirely true because I put him up, buy the food...
I sent him the separation/settlement agreement in March and he has sat on it...
I do not want to push the issue and I know that if the D does go through I will be compensated, but I'd rather have him do the work so we can R the Marriage.
"but I'd rather have him do the work so we can R the Marriage"
This is something you have zero control over.
" It isn't entirely true because I put him up, buy the food"
This is something you have 100% control over.
See the difference.
Don't dwell on wanting him to do the work.
Take action on putting him up (STOP!) and buying the food (not an issue if you aren't putting him up).
"I have decided that it will be easier on everyone if you stayed somewhere else when you come into town."
LIsten and validate.
Thank you Steve once again for your amazing input. You really have a good handle on DB-ing. I need to brush up!
You are right. I have been GAL but my 180s need work as you've pointed out.
I guess what I was trying to say is that I don't want to push him into getting the settlement agreement signed, just so I don't have to suffer at all financially. But again, you are right, I have no control over him.
If he stops staying with me it will definitely cut down on costs for sure and it will force him to provide for himself. I know that I will miss his company.
Journaling...
I am not sure if I did the right thing, but after the child support conversation went south, I blocked H on my phone and at the work messenger.
It feels really nice, before I would be waiting for a response from him. Always trying to keep him informed of the kids, sending pictures/audio clips... Sometimes he wouldn't even acknowledge them. The times he would reach out were only if he was heading my way for business. When it was close to then he was really dialed in to his family...
Now I email him if i need something for the kids. Today I sent him an email requesting a form for the B&A care and instead of writing back, he called me. I sounded really nice on the phone and thanked him for following up. He seemed surprised.
I hope I'm doing this right, but it seemed like a good boundary!
Lilly remember. You deserve better than this. I often tell LBWs that hold on for dear life "Man I wish I had a W thatI could year this way that would stick around no matter what I did!" You have to have respect for yourself before you can expect him to respect you.
Steve,
I'm working on that. It's hard, but it shouldn't be. The more I detach, the better I feel. I'm interested to see how it goes next time he is in town, when he stays elsewhere.
Journaling~
It feels good to be detached. I have been so focused on me. I have started a new exercise program, enrolled in college to finish my degree, and got some help to take things off of my plate (weekly meal delivery service & cleaning 2x/ mth). It's nice to have some time back to myself. I have been getting up early to exercise at 0400 and I haven't been able to do so in the past 2 years... I had no drive to exercise.
I read somewhere that when you are left that it takes about 2 years to feel normal. I think it's true. I haven't felt like myself for a long time and the things I am doing now are more like the old me, but with a lot of growth and courage.
My H would never approve of any help with cleaning (thought it was me being lazy). I'm away from my house for about 12+ hrs/day and I'd prefer to spend any time I have with my kids, instead of scrubbing the bathroom... It's nice to make that choice without fear of judgement.
The meals are nice too because the shopping part is already done. My S and I like to cook a lot, he really takes after his Dad. Last night we made a meal together and it was really nice. He was so proud of himself.
H has been gone for 9 days and has reached out to the children twice. Unfortunately only after I prompted him to do so. All I am doing is loving on my kids, because they don't deserve to be treated like that.
Journaling
H called kids last night.
He told them he’d be home in a few weeks. I didn’t say anything but the kids seemed really excited. That breaks my heart a little, but I know that him staying elsewhere is for the greater good.
My S is having another procedure for his eye on Monday so I’ll be home with him that week.
My class starts next week and I’m really looking forward to it.
I exercised 5 days this week in the morning before work and I feel very accomplished.
I’m planning to get out and do something with the kids this weekend as well as decluttering a few things to prepare for back to school.
Since H pretty much refused to help with the cost of BTS supplies and clothing I’m going to go through all of the kids outfits and return anything that’s isn’t necessary and I’m okay with that.
Happy Friday! =]
Lilly, keep up the great attitude! Not acting out of sadness or fear is awesome and it sounds like you are starting to get a handle on that.
Journaling~~~
Checked our joint account and the $ for the school supplies was there.
H has also done a great job making sure to call the kids. I have not had to remind him. Our S-11 had surgery on Monday he is recovering and doing well. I am home this week with him to make sure he's okay.
I have kept up with my GAL activities, haven't missed any workouts from my program and I've been cooking a lot more too which really makes me happy.
It seems like I'm spending more than I should. Part of me wants new things and things for me that I want... I'm not sure if it's a negative action or not. I can afford what I'm buying, but it feels wrong for some reason. Things I have purchased include self care items like body scrubs, eye masks... I purchased a few belts because my heavy pants are getting loose. I also bought some new clothing. Nothing too fancy, just a few T-shirts and a pair sandals to replace the ones I tossed bc they were 10 years old.
I'm not sure how to find out if I'm buying this stuff to cope with something or if it's something else. Before I was married I shopped quite a bit, but I couldn't afford the habit. =)
Sounds like things are going well Lilly! I hear you on the spending, it's hard to reign it in after years (or decades) of having two incomes. I've been D'd for years and honestly still struggle daily with my desire to overspend!
Journaling~~
I've been thinking about how to address expectations since the separation agreement hasn't been signed or really acknowledged.
I'd like for H to know what I expect from him so I don't get another BS response when he needs to pay for something that isn't normally covered by child support. Keep in mind the amount he provides, he came up with what he thought was fair...(it's a few hundred less than he should be paying according to our state).
I'm thinking about requesting some sort of over the phone mediation..I'm just not sure how to address it.
Ultimately H did the right thing with the back to school supplies, but technically he should be paying for 1/2 the uncovered medical expenses as well and I've never asked for that. It's not that much maybe a total of $100 over the past year, but it seems like you give an inch and they take a mile.
I covered the kids b-day gifts, wrote both of our names on the cards, and since they are older it's more $$. Like I said, I just don't know how to address it. I don't want to pursue the separation agreement, I got one that I thought was fair and presented it to him and he didn't like that he'd have to pay extra $ based on the state and haven't heard anything about it since.
Thoughts?
Couple thoughts:
You have your H's number, which sounds like he pulled out of thin air. Where did it come from? You are the one taking care of the kids, how the heck does he know what it costs?
Then you have the state number. Have you gone through working out the number you think is fair? It sounds like you have a lot of little expenses here and there which will add up. Forget the state calculator, what do you consider the cost of supporting your children? It might be worthwhile to draft up a budget.
For the b-day gifts, if he doesn't contribute, next time don't write his name on the card. That seems fair to me.
My take is both of your lives would be a lot easier if you just agreed on the lump-sum monthly amount, and you didn't need to have back-and-forth conversations over various expenses as they come up.
Perhaps you can consider raising that point first, before suggesting mediation as the method for coming to agreement on the amount?
unchein-
Not sure, maybe an online calculator. I definitely agree w. the state calculation because it's a flat rate then 1/2 the childcare expenses (it varies monthly).
I definitely learned my lesson as far as the gifts go. This is the 1st year I didn't buy his grandmother something for her bday. He did get me a gift from "the kids" after I told him not to for my birthday. I ended up returning it and buying my daughter some things that she needed and I did get myself something I needed too. Going forward I'm just going to do my own thing.
I have raised the issue and his stance has been that he shouldn't have to pay the full amount bc he has to purchase a plane ticket to see the kids. I try to listen and validate but part of me thinks that's what happens when you move across the country to leave your family for a job...
I am really considering the telephone coaching sessions to get a plan in place. I feel confident I'm doing well, then like I'm spiraling..
OK so he took the state number and subtracted out his airfare to come visit your kids?
Is that right from a legal perspective? I have no idea. To me, it sounds like he is diverting money intended for your children towards himself? What if you told him "no need to visit, just send me the full amount"? I'm being facetious but I don't think his logic squares. This *must* be a situation covered by the calculator or legally.
I did 3 coaching sessions. They were somewhat helpful, the advice was a little "softer" than what the forums deliver. Good to hear a different perspective.
Sorry one more thing... I would think the basic support payment would have to be adjusted for cases when parents live apart.
Let's say instead of your H coming to visit, you were shuttling the kids back and forth on airplanes. That is an expense that must be paid for by somebody. It has to be factored into the calculation.
Haha! We are on the same page with this. I already got the lawyers take and they said I could always accept less money if we both agreed.
I will think about it more for the telephone coaching. Idk if I would benefit since we are separated and don't have much contact other than to discuss the kids.
Wait... why would you accept less? Sorry I am alarmed on your behalf...
I may be thinking about this wrong, but I can see how it gets complicated.
1. Does the state calculator account for any travel expenses?
2. I would think the travel expenses should be a shared expense, but would also account for income discrepancy.
Here's why I ask. Let's assume your H is the sole income earner (I don't know your situation here).
The calculator spits out $1000/mo for support assuming you all live in the same town. Now it costs him an additional $100/mo to travel to visit the kids periodically.
The total cost of child support is now $1100/mo. You still need that $1000/mo. It's a shell game.
It doesn't matter that it was his choice to live apart or not. It is just a fact, and it increases your total parenting costs, and somehow the two of you need to come to an arrangement to pay those costs.
If you both earn income I can see how this might get more complicated about who pays what percentage of the travel, and maybe that's a negotiable point...
I would never accept less, but I have been by not addressing the issue.
We both earn the same amount/month. The military sends him my my way for work often so that expense isn't a cost to him. He did buy 3 plane tickets to come for vacation and he stayed with me every time so the only expense he was out was the airfare, he used my car. He is a 4 hour plan ride away. I understand where he is coming from, but his logic doesn't support what actually happens. If the children were going back and forth I could see me purchasing my ticket + one of the kids but I'm not thinking his airfare due to poor life choices should decrease the support amount. Like you said before, he could just not come visit.
As far as I know the state calculator doesn't account for travel expenses for the parent.
I advocate making this as clean as possible, by separating the issue of child support payments from the cost of travel and visits.
Perhaps, "Let's agree that if we ignore travel, the child support payment is X."
Now you can focus on just negotiating your H's travel costs... which is going to be challenging in its own right. But hopefully that untangles the emotions of b-day gifts and BTS supplies from the fundamental issue and helps you decide what you want. I think that problem on its own is incredibly complicated.
... the less horse-trading, the better...
Journaling~~
I just sent H an email stating that I decided it would be better for everyone if he didn't stay in the family home when he comes into town.
It feels uncomfortable, but I'm glad it is done.
Good for you Lilly!!! Glad you are feeling good about it. It will be for the best in the long run. (((HUGS)))
I know he saw it, he replied "ok."
Time to move forward!
I know he saw it, he replied "ok."
Time to move forward!
Exactly! I have no doubt there is some emotional trigger there. Just recognize it and move on with your day... you just handled your business in a calm respectful way. Well done
I feel torn, like I did the wrong thing, but also that hopefully this will put things into perspective for him + the kids.
The validation is nice! Thank you!!
I feel torn, like I did the wrong thing
I think it's normal to feel guilty when standing up for yourself, especially if it doesn't come naturally.
but also that hopefully this will put things into perspective for him + the kids.
Ignore any expectation of the outcome with your H. It will help you detach (and also help with the guilt).
The more you can find your own center, and ignore what he is thinking or how he will react, the more confident you will be and the easier this will all become. Obviously you can choose whether and how to take his needs into account. And note that none of that necessarily means you are creating conflict. You may find yourself making decisions that align with your H's needs, but they are coming from your own center and your own values.
Personally I think it's healthier for the kids to see the change. It would be more confusing for them to see you two in the same house.
The validation is nice! Thank you!!
Haha yeah just paying it forward. This forum pulled me out of a dark place a few months back.
Okay quick thoughts...
After I laid out the boundary with H about not staying in my home he says okay... then nothing last night also no contact today.
The kids haven’t mentioned anything about H so I’m not going to make them call or anything like that. I feel like this is a detachment / no contact standoff...
Positive note. I’m getting back into IC next week on Wednesday.
It feels like a standoff because it feels unnatural to change how you interact with your H. Maybe you have some worry about how your H is taking it.
It truly does not matter. He could be angry or indifferent or relieved or any number of things. The less you worry about that the better. Things will feel more natural over time.
Going to IC is great...keep the focus on you!
H changed his relationship status to single on Facebook
What in the world!? I feel sick about this.
I really want to confront him about this.