Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/26/19 02:31 PM
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/26/19 05:56 PM
The cooking is definitely a 180. He has never really lived on his own so he had to cook. I assumed he'd do simple meals - steak, chips etc, but he has decided to go the full hog. Continuation of the healthy living kick he initiated in the 6-12 months before BD. I even tried to cook even bought healthy cook books when he lived here. It wasn't the spices itself. It was just evidence of a life lived without me. That's why I avoid going to the flat. I've only been there half a dozen times since he MO. Each time I see something that cuts me up. First time he had purchased paintings for the walls, then it was photos of the children in the frames that use to house photos of us, then a Christmas tree ... small things, but they are evidence of a separate life.
*** side bar - he would never leave evidence of anOW. He would not want the girls to find them. And he would not want me to find them. When I discovered he was dating - it was by accident. He was supposed to be 'away' and he thought I was at home looking after the girls. I had booked a babysitter and went to a mums night out. When I confronted him about it he said "what I am I supposed to do". That's exactly the same thing he said about the paintings on his walls.
Dilly - I am not interpreting his behavior when I say he lies about when he is at work and when he is not. He is not at work all the times he says he is (otherwise he is literally either looking after the children or he is flying a plane. There is no room in the schedule for anything else) and he often gets his stories mixed up (like today when the schedule says "drop girls off at 3 (working)" and then he said this morning that he would drop them off at 5 and then go see his dad. I am not worried about what he is or is not doing when he is not with me. But each time he puts "away" on his schedule when he is not away, he makes a conscious decision to lie to me. I could hazard a guess as to why he lies (he wants to protect his non-family 'life', he doesn't want to hurt me, he is seeing a mate of his I do not like, he wants time away from the responsibility of children to sit on his @rse and watch TV). It doesn't matter. It is a lie. And I would rather he tell me nothing then lie to me.
*** side bar - he would never leave evidence of anOW. He would not want the girls to find them. And he would not want me to find them. When I discovered he was dating - it was by accident. He was supposed to be 'away' and he thought I was at home looking after the girls. I had booked a babysitter and went to a mums night out. When I confronted him about it he said "what I am I supposed to do". That's exactly the same thing he said about the paintings on his walls.
Dilly - I am not interpreting his behavior when I say he lies about when he is at work and when he is not. He is not at work all the times he says he is (otherwise he is literally either looking after the children or he is flying a plane. There is no room in the schedule for anything else) and he often gets his stories mixed up (like today when the schedule says "drop girls off at 3 (working)" and then he said this morning that he would drop them off at 5 and then go see his dad. I am not worried about what he is or is not doing when he is not with me. But each time he puts "away" on his schedule when he is not away, he makes a conscious decision to lie to me. I could hazard a guess as to why he lies (he wants to protect his non-family 'life', he doesn't want to hurt me, he is seeing a mate of his I do not like, he wants time away from the responsibility of children to sit on his @rse and watch TV). It doesn't matter. It is a lie. And I would rather he tell me nothing then lie to me.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/26/19 06:33 PM
Journalling
I went out to dinner with some colleagues last night. We went to a pan asian restaurant near work that I have been wanting to try. There was only three of us. One of them, a woman, is in the middle of a divorce. She kicked him out in December and she is just waiting for the paperwork to go through. It was interesting listening to it from the other side "I had had enough", "I tried for two years", "He just wanted to sit around and do nothing", "life is too short to be unhappy". She had had a bit of an EA with a co-worker which came to nothing in the end. He fed her ego, made her feel attractive and wanted, but it came to nothing. BTW - the co-worker is a [censored] who saw her as easy prey. The other colleague who was with us is miserable in his marriage. It was strange watching my two friends feed each other's unhappiness.
***
My interactions with H continue to flow lightly and be easy. There is rarely any awkwardness now. He smiles when he sees me. I smile when I see him. We smile when we say goodbye and say "see you later" or "see you in a bit". Normal stuff without any weight.
TBH - I would say our communication is better than the 6-9 months before BD. He listens to me instead of talking over me, he asks my opinion on things. We talk like two people who get on.
When we are living in the present then everything seems fine. Then something is said and we remember that we have split up. He starts to talk about a future without me (holidays he has planned with the girls, holidays I have planned with the girls). This morning he asked me what I planned to do with the house. It was a natural progression from a conversation about some boxes of toys that have been in the garage a while that he wants to take to charity because it's taking up too much room. Caught off guard (he has never asked before) I said "Sell it" as cant afford to continue to pay the mortgage on my own. He went quiet for a while and then we changed to lighter topics - D12's next counselling appointment.
This afternoon he was at the house. I am WFH so asked if I could join D9 and him for breakfast. After breakfast D9 asked if she could come home with me. We agreed that was fine and he said he would drop by after lunch to take her bike riding and to walk our dog and then pick up D12 from school. Before he left to go back to the flat I told him he could stay here sunday night (he lands after midnight) as he has D9 monday morning and it would save me waking her up and driving her over to his flat on my way to work. It would also mean he can stay in bed Monday morning (D9 will probably crawl into bed with him after I leave). It was asked in the moment. And he did not pull back or react negatively. He said thanks, that's a good idea and we could confirm Sunday afternoon (if the flight is on time then he will go back to his, if it isn't then he will stay here).
I don't know what any of it means. It could be he thinks I am moving on and no longer feels pressure to be guarded, it could be that he is responding in kind to the kindness, it could be he is being a manipulative [censored] and hoping to keep me in my place as long as possible, not because I am plan B, but our current arrangement suits him better than if we were to formally separate or it could be that the fog is lifting and he is realising that he misses 'us'. I don't know. Any and all of those things could be true.
I will continue to do me and be less guarded.
I went out to dinner with some colleagues last night. We went to a pan asian restaurant near work that I have been wanting to try. There was only three of us. One of them, a woman, is in the middle of a divorce. She kicked him out in December and she is just waiting for the paperwork to go through. It was interesting listening to it from the other side "I had had enough", "I tried for two years", "He just wanted to sit around and do nothing", "life is too short to be unhappy". She had had a bit of an EA with a co-worker which came to nothing in the end. He fed her ego, made her feel attractive and wanted, but it came to nothing. BTW - the co-worker is a [censored] who saw her as easy prey. The other colleague who was with us is miserable in his marriage. It was strange watching my two friends feed each other's unhappiness.
***
My interactions with H continue to flow lightly and be easy. There is rarely any awkwardness now. He smiles when he sees me. I smile when I see him. We smile when we say goodbye and say "see you later" or "see you in a bit". Normal stuff without any weight.
TBH - I would say our communication is better than the 6-9 months before BD. He listens to me instead of talking over me, he asks my opinion on things. We talk like two people who get on.
When we are living in the present then everything seems fine. Then something is said and we remember that we have split up. He starts to talk about a future without me (holidays he has planned with the girls, holidays I have planned with the girls). This morning he asked me what I planned to do with the house. It was a natural progression from a conversation about some boxes of toys that have been in the garage a while that he wants to take to charity because it's taking up too much room. Caught off guard (he has never asked before) I said "Sell it" as cant afford to continue to pay the mortgage on my own. He went quiet for a while and then we changed to lighter topics - D12's next counselling appointment.
This afternoon he was at the house. I am WFH so asked if I could join D9 and him for breakfast. After breakfast D9 asked if she could come home with me. We agreed that was fine and he said he would drop by after lunch to take her bike riding and to walk our dog and then pick up D12 from school. Before he left to go back to the flat I told him he could stay here sunday night (he lands after midnight) as he has D9 monday morning and it would save me waking her up and driving her over to his flat on my way to work. It would also mean he can stay in bed Monday morning (D9 will probably crawl into bed with him after I leave). It was asked in the moment. And he did not pull back or react negatively. He said thanks, that's a good idea and we could confirm Sunday afternoon (if the flight is on time then he will go back to his, if it isn't then he will stay here).
I don't know what any of it means. It could be he thinks I am moving on and no longer feels pressure to be guarded, it could be that he is responding in kind to the kindness, it could be he is being a manipulative [censored] and hoping to keep me in my place as long as possible, not because I am plan B, but our current arrangement suits him better than if we were to formally separate or it could be that the fog is lifting and he is realising that he misses 'us'. I don't know. Any and all of those things could be true.
I will continue to do me and be less guarded.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/26/19 10:47 PM
Hi FS. I am glad you met the British DV6...lol. I hope you become good friends. RE: your H lying to you and why he continues to do it if you are done. I suspect it is a combination of wanting to avoid any possibility of a conflict and also not to cause you anymore pain than he already has. My STBXH tells me very little and likely lies when he does tell me anything. Despite evidence to the contrary, I really believe that he honestly does not want to hurt me anymore so he just doesn’t risk it. I also think he doesn’t want me to think any less of him than I already do and he is also highly avoidant of conflict or the possibility of it. I think this is likely a common denominator amongst the bomb droppers.
I think your vacation plans sound amazing!!! Looking forward to hearing all about it when you are back. (((HUGS)))
I think your vacation plans sound amazing!!! Looking forward to hearing all about it when you are back. (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/27/19 08:51 AM
FS: I was listening to a podcast recently where someone was told 6 things to stop doing to have a happier life. One of them was to stop overthinking. I think that's something you and I are both prone to. Quite how to stop overthinking I'm not sure, but maybe going with the flow, enjoying the present with our spouses and not pondering the future too much would be good for both of us. That said, I'm just about to post on my thread about wanting to move house, which makes me a total hypocrite 
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/28/19 09:41 AM
I'm an overthinker too. When I do it, it's generally because I am feeling anxious and insecure and trying to control the outcome of a situation. I am cogitating what I need to do or how I need to behave to get the 'best' outcome for me and the people I care about. Makes me sound like a megalomaniac, but it comes from anxiety, most of the time.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/28/19 03:25 PM
DV - I agree my H keeps things private partly because he doesn't want to hurt me. I would throw in the following though ... I do not tell him what I am doing either. Because when he left he wanted to lock me out and I wanted to detach. And now it is habit. A good example is instigram. We both have private accounts. I opened mine a few months after he MO, and he opened his around Nov last year. He didn't tell anyone. Earlier this year he added D12, then D9 and then his mum, brother and his sister. One night I sneaked a peak via D9's account. There is nothing there - just photos of sunsets, sunrises and pics of the children. I have an instigram account too ... he is not on mine either. Mine has photos of sunsets, sunrises and pics of the children. Habit.
Dilly/Alison - I appreciate your thoughts.
Funny, I said the same thing to Davide on his thread (though slightly more tongue in cheek), and his response, which I think goes for me too, with went something along the lines of ...
This is where I reflect, where i sort my thoughts and separate the emotional from the rational. IRL I hardly ever mention my sitch. I just live it. I make decisions with little thought of the impact on my H. And mostly my life is pretty good. But when the day is done, and my children are in bed or with my H, or in the early mornings, alone with my coffee, I allow the thoughts to come and I write them here. It helps me to understand.
The spices are a good example. I opened his cupboard, saw the spices, felt the sting, and then pushed it away, read to analyse later. I made my coffee, smiled and then chatted to H and D9 about their plans for the day. It was an emotional response to something mundane. Rationally I know that it means nothing other than he is trying to cook.
Dilly/Alison - I appreciate your thoughts.
Funny, I said the same thing to Davide on his thread (though slightly more tongue in cheek), and his response, which I think goes for me too, with went something along the lines of ...
This is where I reflect, where i sort my thoughts and separate the emotional from the rational. IRL I hardly ever mention my sitch. I just live it. I make decisions with little thought of the impact on my H. And mostly my life is pretty good. But when the day is done, and my children are in bed or with my H, or in the early mornings, alone with my coffee, I allow the thoughts to come and I write them here. It helps me to understand.
The spices are a good example. I opened his cupboard, saw the spices, felt the sting, and then pushed it away, read to analyse later. I made my coffee, smiled and then chatted to H and D9 about their plans for the day. It was an emotional response to something mundane. Rationally I know that it means nothing other than he is trying to cook.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/28/19 03:47 PM
Journalling
I found an old thread by Mozzi titled to "Be Kind or Not to be Kind" which had some good debate about whether or not to be kind to our spouses. This is something I have been grappling with lately. If we are to move forward (whatever that may be) I know one of us has to let the other in, even if just a little. There are times when I can see he tries, and I bat it straight back by giving closed responses and being dismissive or aloof. I have always stuck to the script: keep conversations short and business like, don't give too much away "I have plans", "I am out that night", "I stopped and met a friend".
I know that this is something that needs to change in me. A 180 I can implement now that I am stronger. But the fear of being hurt is still there.
GAL
I've had a really nice weekend with the kids. Went shopping then took them to see the Avengers End Game yesterday and we all really enjoyed it. I missed two key parts because I had to step out twice (once to get popcorn and once to take D9 to the toilet) which kind of s*cks but I guess that's the price of being a mum. We then tried out a new Chinese restaurant for dinner. Today has been more chill out. We stayed in apart from running errands.
Overall, and apart from going out with friends, GAL has dropped a lot lately and I need to re-start some.
1. Yoga - do more at home and try and attend 5 classes a week
2. Painting - haven't picked up a paint brush all year so at least one evening a week I need to paint
3. Reading - Read one book a week
4. Watch less TV
5. Do a 'home' clean up project each week (e.g. sort and throw out to small clothes from D9, sort through the linen cupboard).
180
I am going to start a daily to do list of all the things I need to get done. I concentrate too much on work and have let my life admin slip.
Lovingly detach
Pretty good with detaching but need to work harder on the 'lovingly' bit.
What I took from Mozzi's thread is it is OK to flirt a little but do it like you would someone you had met and were interested in ... because when you meet them there is no expectation - it is just a bit of fun. If you have expectation, then you have to stay in the plain old 'detaching' phase. Flirting might be a bit much for where we are at ... but I could start with taking an interest in his day to day over and above the children.
I found an old thread by Mozzi titled to "Be Kind or Not to be Kind" which had some good debate about whether or not to be kind to our spouses. This is something I have been grappling with lately. If we are to move forward (whatever that may be) I know one of us has to let the other in, even if just a little. There are times when I can see he tries, and I bat it straight back by giving closed responses and being dismissive or aloof. I have always stuck to the script: keep conversations short and business like, don't give too much away "I have plans", "I am out that night", "I stopped and met a friend".
I know that this is something that needs to change in me. A 180 I can implement now that I am stronger. But the fear of being hurt is still there.
GAL
I've had a really nice weekend with the kids. Went shopping then took them to see the Avengers End Game yesterday and we all really enjoyed it. I missed two key parts because I had to step out twice (once to get popcorn and once to take D9 to the toilet) which kind of s*cks but I guess that's the price of being a mum. We then tried out a new Chinese restaurant for dinner. Today has been more chill out. We stayed in apart from running errands.
Overall, and apart from going out with friends, GAL has dropped a lot lately and I need to re-start some.
1. Yoga - do more at home and try and attend 5 classes a week
2. Painting - haven't picked up a paint brush all year so at least one evening a week I need to paint
3. Reading - Read one book a week
4. Watch less TV
5. Do a 'home' clean up project each week (e.g. sort and throw out to small clothes from D9, sort through the linen cupboard).
180
I am going to start a daily to do list of all the things I need to get done. I concentrate too much on work and have let my life admin slip.
Lovingly detach
Pretty good with detaching but need to work harder on the 'lovingly' bit.
What I took from Mozzi's thread is it is OK to flirt a little but do it like you would someone you had met and were interested in ... because when you meet them there is no expectation - it is just a bit of fun. If you have expectation, then you have to stay in the plain old 'detaching' phase. Flirting might be a bit much for where we are at ... but I could start with taking an interest in his day to day over and above the children.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/28/19 04:45 PM
I like this list, FS.
I think it's never, ever a bad idea to be kind. And never a bad idea to accept that in a particular time or place or towards a particular person, we can't quite manage it. I don't think I will ever have it in me to be kind to my father, so I just don't see him. When I try to be kind to H it is because I want to extract some love or affection from him, so it isn't really kindness. If I could be properly kind though, I think it would be the right thing to do.
I think it's never, ever a bad idea to be kind. And never a bad idea to accept that in a particular time or place or towards a particular person, we can't quite manage it. I don't think I will ever have it in me to be kind to my father, so I just don't see him. When I try to be kind to H it is because I want to extract some love or affection from him, so it isn't really kindness. If I could be properly kind though, I think it would be the right thing to do.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/29/19 04:22 AM
I like it too. It’s interesting to think about incorporating other things in with/after the detaching and I feel like it makes sense for where you are in your situation. It seems like a natural progression. I’ll be curious to see the results...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/29/19 08:13 AM
Taking an interest in his day seems like a good start in warming up towards him, FS. After all, if you are ever going to R, at some stage you will both need to open up about your lives to some extent and start sharing things more. Baby steps, I know you're like me and a distancer so it doesn't come naturally, but if you keep it light and low pressure, good things may flow that way.
Dh and I have been definitely showing more interest in each other's lives the last few months, it's only now I realise how disconnected we really were before because we didn't really show interest in the other person, we sort of paid attention out of the corner of our eyes I think. Although it's not enough for R, it has to be a first step towards it. It comes easier once you decide to trust your H a bit and to not be too guarded. I'm working on that. Yesterday dh said something about 'my road' being closed (the one his flat is on) and part of me tensed up and then the more generous part of me said 'chill out' and we moved on. Trusting someone who has broken your heart is probably the hardest thing in the world though.
Dh and I have been definitely showing more interest in each other's lives the last few months, it's only now I realise how disconnected we really were before because we didn't really show interest in the other person, we sort of paid attention out of the corner of our eyes I think. Although it's not enough for R, it has to be a first step towards it. It comes easier once you decide to trust your H a bit and to not be too guarded. I'm working on that. Yesterday dh said something about 'my road' being closed (the one his flat is on) and part of me tensed up and then the more generous part of me said 'chill out' and we moved on. Trusting someone who has broken your heart is probably the hardest thing in the world though.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/29/19 09:12 AM
Something I've noticed over the past month or so - is that I do ask H more about his work, his day, what's going on with him when I see him. At first he would be very prickly in his responses, but gradually he has started to open up a bit. It isn't great - sometimes he comes to pick up the kids, unloads and complains for a bit, then leaves. But he has started to ask about me and my day too in more recent times.
What I noticed though, is that this is new for me. I know that when we were living together weeks or even months would go by before I'd show much interest in his life or hobbies or interests outside of how they affected me (his availability for time with me, or childcare, etc). I'd only be interested if he was out playing sport because I'd have in mind how tired he would be when he got back and how that tiredness would affect me and how available he would be to me. I talked to him a lot about my own stuff - and he needs a lot more quiet time than I allowed him to have. He was a kind of stand in therapist / punch bag for me a lot of the time. I can admit that now and I am not proud of it, but I think it was totally invisible to me before he moved out.
My 180 is that I try to ask a question or two most times that I see him, and try to be understanding of him offloading and take it as an opportunity to validate. It also helps me to understand (though it does not excuse) why he had the EA - there were clearly needs that were not being met in our M. I try to keep that understanding in mind when I feel angry - as I still do sometimes - about the EA. And when he asks me about how things are with me, I try to answer honestly, but briefly. 180s for a distancer will be totally different, I guess.
I think for the two of us (H and I) there needs to be an adjustment as to how much space we take up in the relationship. As the pursuer I need to quieten down and step back a bit - and hopefully he will either take the chance to step forward, or the relationship will die. It's scary for me and I think terrifying for him too, as the distancer, to have that situational pressure on him to either participate and open up and self-disclose and experience desire for intimacy, or to let me go entirely.
What I noticed though, is that this is new for me. I know that when we were living together weeks or even months would go by before I'd show much interest in his life or hobbies or interests outside of how they affected me (his availability for time with me, or childcare, etc). I'd only be interested if he was out playing sport because I'd have in mind how tired he would be when he got back and how that tiredness would affect me and how available he would be to me. I talked to him a lot about my own stuff - and he needs a lot more quiet time than I allowed him to have. He was a kind of stand in therapist / punch bag for me a lot of the time. I can admit that now and I am not proud of it, but I think it was totally invisible to me before he moved out.
My 180 is that I try to ask a question or two most times that I see him, and try to be understanding of him offloading and take it as an opportunity to validate. It also helps me to understand (though it does not excuse) why he had the EA - there were clearly needs that were not being met in our M. I try to keep that understanding in mind when I feel angry - as I still do sometimes - about the EA. And when he asks me about how things are with me, I try to answer honestly, but briefly. 180s for a distancer will be totally different, I guess.
I think for the two of us (H and I) there needs to be an adjustment as to how much space we take up in the relationship. As the pursuer I need to quieten down and step back a bit - and hopefully he will either take the chance to step forward, or the relationship will die. It's scary for me and I think terrifying for him too, as the distancer, to have that situational pressure on him to either participate and open up and self-disclose and experience desire for intimacy, or to let me go entirely.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/29/19 07:20 PM
I relate to this so much Alison. I’m a pursuer, and I’ve come to realize that I required more from my H than he was capable of giving in terms of high level communication and chat, and I punished him when he wasn’t able to deliver, because I felt abandoned and unloved. SIGH.
In the recent weeks, in an effort to detach, I’ve been making a point not to pursue conversation with him outside of things related to our daughter. I do notice an uptick in his trying to engage with me about work and various random topics. Not engaging/giving short simple responses and not encouraging his attempts at engagement floods me with anxiety. As you said Alison, it’s terrifying for me to leave it to him (super avoidant) to dial up the intimacy/forward momentum of the relationship. But I also realize that he is the only one who can do it. Every time I’ve tried since he moved out, I’ve been rebuffed. I’m always arguing with myself about it; afraid that if I dont encourage his bids for connection that it will discourage him too much. Afraid that if I don’t explicitly invite him back to our marriage that he will never have the guts to ask to come back. But knowing that all of my attempts at inviting him back in explicitly have failed, so to try that again would be foolish.
I suppose the answer, once again, is that when and only when I have no expectations can I make bids for connection, and that until then I have to find a way to soothe my anxiety around not being more encouraging in response to his...?
In the recent weeks, in an effort to detach, I’ve been making a point not to pursue conversation with him outside of things related to our daughter. I do notice an uptick in his trying to engage with me about work and various random topics. Not engaging/giving short simple responses and not encouraging his attempts at engagement floods me with anxiety. As you said Alison, it’s terrifying for me to leave it to him (super avoidant) to dial up the intimacy/forward momentum of the relationship. But I also realize that he is the only one who can do it. Every time I’ve tried since he moved out, I’ve been rebuffed. I’m always arguing with myself about it; afraid that if I dont encourage his bids for connection that it will discourage him too much. Afraid that if I don’t explicitly invite him back to our marriage that he will never have the guts to ask to come back. But knowing that all of my attempts at inviting him back in explicitly have failed, so to try that again would be foolish.
I suppose the answer, once again, is that when and only when I have no expectations can I make bids for connection, and that until then I have to find a way to soothe my anxiety around not being more encouraging in response to his...?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/30/19 05:09 AM
Hope: there is a difference between encouraging his bids and pursuing him! If he is that much of a distancer you SHOULD encourage his bids, because it takes a lot for a distancer to make a bid. So if you spot a bid, encourage him GENTLY, don't smother him, don't go overboard, just respond in a relaxed way. And then make your own bids low key. If the distancer moves towards the pursuer a bit and the pursuer backs off a bit then you can both have a bit more equality in the relationship and doing it gently will make both of you feel safer.
Well, that's my take. I'm still learning a lot about how to pursue a bit but not too much, having been a distancer it is hard work for me but gets easier. I find texts easiest of all.
Well, that's my take. I'm still learning a lot about how to pursue a bit but not too much, having been a distancer it is hard work for me but gets easier. I find texts easiest of all.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/30/19 06:51 AM
Interesting conversation. Being aware that I am a distancer makes me more conscious of how I behave, not just around my H, but other people too ... whenever I feel threatened or hurt. It is a gut response. But I am working on it.
Journalling
GAL
Didn't have the children last night but decided to stay in to watch Game of Thrones (once a geek, always a geek).
On the yoga front, I've managed to do Yoga at home twice since my last entry but haven't been to a class yet. Getting the motivation to go at lunch is tough and I didn't go after work (more on that later). I picked up a book yesterday which I started a few weeks ago but didn't finish so the one book a week plan is going well so far. I have also managed to make my bed TWO days in a row - motivation to make a bed is low due to no-one else ever seeing it
There won't be much chance for GAL for a while as I have the children pretty much until next Wednesday. I am taking the girls to Brighton this weekend (long weekend in the UK) as the Brighton Festival is on. I have a girlfriend who lives there and she has invited us to stay with her. I am looking forward to it but not.
I have started to create a profile on a dating site. I haven't finished it yet, and may never finish it.
180
I guess my biggest 180 is trying to not distance without pursuing. It was going well(ish) but backtracked yesterday.
H was watching D9 yesterday. I suggested he stay here Sunday night as he wasn't landing until midnight. This would have been a win for all of us: D9 and H got to sleep in and I didn't have to drive her to the other side of town. would have been asleep when he got in, and he would have been asleep when I left so we didn't even need to see each other. He asked me to give D12 some bus money as he was taking D9 to visit his dad in hospital and may not be back in time to pick her up from school. I said sure, but can you let me know where you'll be in the evening as D12 has my house keys. So far, so friendly. I even left him a note in the morning saying hope you slept well and then outlining what homework D9 had left to do.
I sent a friendly text during the day reminding him D12 had my keys. He responded in kind. Said they slept in and gave a brief outline of his plans for the day (dentist, visit dad, netball training etc). All very friendly.
When I got home there was no-one here and I was locked out. I called D12 and she said they were at his mums for dinner. I reminded her she had my keys and she went "oh". I could hear him in the background saying "tell her to come here and get the keys". When I spoke to him all he said was "the girls wanted to come here instead of netball". I sat in a coffee shop for two hours waiting and seething so I sent him a text asking him to be more considerate in the future, he apologized (one of those "Sorry, it was last minute, the girls wanted to see mum and I didn't think about the keys and you"). This got my goat up - one of my issues was I was always the last thing he thought about - he just assumed I would be fine. Fine with looking after the girls when he went out, fine with paying for things, fine with him being 2-3 hours late home. We all have our triggers. A couple of texts later - not long rambling ones - just blunt from me and defensive/aggressive from him, I ended the exchange with a sarcastic response.
I did apologies later (180 from me). We normally let things ride and pretend it didn't happen. Both generally too proud to say sorry.
Lovingly detached
I changed the locks last night. Not sure if this is detaching, but to me it is being more proactive. It is time. I will give him the key to the top lock and tell him to let me know when he is coming round and I will be sure to leave the bottom lock undone. I think that meets the "he has right of access" and I have "right to feel safe in my home". He is still attached in many ways which makes it harder for me. He still feels like he is here and I need to make the space mine. So this is the detaching part.
I guess the loving part of this goes with the 180 to be kinder to him, not for him, but just because it is the right thing to do. I am trying but sometimes I fail. Sometimes when he does not show the same back, I react emotionally by putting the walls up. I need to acknowledge this and slowly bring them back down.
Journalling
GAL
Didn't have the children last night but decided to stay in to watch Game of Thrones (once a geek, always a geek).
On the yoga front, I've managed to do Yoga at home twice since my last entry but haven't been to a class yet. Getting the motivation to go at lunch is tough and I didn't go after work (more on that later). I picked up a book yesterday which I started a few weeks ago but didn't finish so the one book a week plan is going well so far. I have also managed to make my bed TWO days in a row - motivation to make a bed is low due to no-one else ever seeing it
There won't be much chance for GAL for a while as I have the children pretty much until next Wednesday. I am taking the girls to Brighton this weekend (long weekend in the UK) as the Brighton Festival is on. I have a girlfriend who lives there and she has invited us to stay with her. I am looking forward to it but not.
I have started to create a profile on a dating site. I haven't finished it yet, and may never finish it.
180
I guess my biggest 180 is trying to not distance without pursuing. It was going well(ish) but backtracked yesterday.
H was watching D9 yesterday. I suggested he stay here Sunday night as he wasn't landing until midnight. This would have been a win for all of us: D9 and H got to sleep in and I didn't have to drive her to the other side of town. would have been asleep when he got in, and he would have been asleep when I left so we didn't even need to see each other. He asked me to give D12 some bus money as he was taking D9 to visit his dad in hospital and may not be back in time to pick her up from school. I said sure, but can you let me know where you'll be in the evening as D12 has my house keys. So far, so friendly. I even left him a note in the morning saying hope you slept well and then outlining what homework D9 had left to do.
I sent a friendly text during the day reminding him D12 had my keys. He responded in kind. Said they slept in and gave a brief outline of his plans for the day (dentist, visit dad, netball training etc). All very friendly.
When I got home there was no-one here and I was locked out. I called D12 and she said they were at his mums for dinner. I reminded her she had my keys and she went "oh". I could hear him in the background saying "tell her to come here and get the keys". When I spoke to him all he said was "the girls wanted to come here instead of netball". I sat in a coffee shop for two hours waiting and seething so I sent him a text asking him to be more considerate in the future, he apologized (one of those "Sorry, it was last minute, the girls wanted to see mum and I didn't think about the keys and you"). This got my goat up - one of my issues was I was always the last thing he thought about - he just assumed I would be fine. Fine with looking after the girls when he went out, fine with paying for things, fine with him being 2-3 hours late home. We all have our triggers. A couple of texts later - not long rambling ones - just blunt from me and defensive/aggressive from him, I ended the exchange with a sarcastic response.
I did apologies later (180 from me). We normally let things ride and pretend it didn't happen. Both generally too proud to say sorry.
Lovingly detached
I changed the locks last night. Not sure if this is detaching, but to me it is being more proactive. It is time. I will give him the key to the top lock and tell him to let me know when he is coming round and I will be sure to leave the bottom lock undone. I think that meets the "he has right of access" and I have "right to feel safe in my home". He is still attached in many ways which makes it harder for me. He still feels like he is here and I need to make the space mine. So this is the detaching part.
I guess the loving part of this goes with the 180 to be kinder to him, not for him, but just because it is the right thing to do. I am trying but sometimes I fail. Sometimes when he does not show the same back, I react emotionally by putting the walls up. I need to acknowledge this and slowly bring them back down.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/30/19 08:14 AM
That was pretty poor behaviour from him, no wonder you were angry no matter whether it was a trigger or not. Having said that, it wasn't deliberate but it was inconsiderate and he really should have behaved better by bringing you the keys and apologising for forgetting when you'd reminded him so many times. Maybe D12 should also take some responsibility too! It's progress that you both smoothed things over later though. And you're definitely thinking about the whole distancer dynamic too, I can also see it in my other relationships as well. My best friends are all pursuers! I try my hardest to go against my distancing nature with them as well, now I've noticed it...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 04/30/19 12:31 PM
From what I've read, being a distancer or a pursuer isn't hard-wired in, like being an extrovert or an introvert is. It's relative and you can be different in different relationships. I know I am intensely private and I distance in most other relationships other than my marriage. What has helped me is allowing myself to be closer to other people - that means I expect less from my H in terms of meeting my emotional needs. Well - at the moment I try to expect nothing from him at all - but in a future R, if there is one, I plan to keep my intimate friendships with women going as that kind of communication is important to me.
FS - that was pretty poor behaviour. I'd be furious too. I think changing the locks the way you have is appropriate - though yes, it sounds like your daughter needs a consequence of some kind too. I know when H has bothered me in some way it's been nearly impossible for me just to take the event in the day, rather than see it as evidence of 'more of the same'. This could just be a lapse - a mistake on his part - or it could be evidence of all kinds of things. I guess you can decide which it is. It's triggered a lot of feelings in you about being taken for granted in the past, and I know you are still feeling taken for granted now - with the way the childcare schedule works, etc.
FS - that was pretty poor behaviour. I'd be furious too. I think changing the locks the way you have is appropriate - though yes, it sounds like your daughter needs a consequence of some kind too. I know when H has bothered me in some way it's been nearly impossible for me just to take the event in the day, rather than see it as evidence of 'more of the same'. This could just be a lapse - a mistake on his part - or it could be evidence of all kinds of things. I guess you can decide which it is. It's triggered a lot of feelings in you about being taken for granted in the past, and I know you are still feeling taken for granted now - with the way the childcare schedule works, etc.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/01/19 12:33 AM
Hey FS,
I'm watching Nate Bargatze - The Tennessee Kid (Netflix stand-up comedian) and I'm snorting with laughter over here. I thought of you and wanted to put it on your radar in case you're looking for something new to watch.
He's super dry observational humor and I'm cracking up.
Cheers. Thinking of you!
I'm watching Nate Bargatze - The Tennessee Kid (Netflix stand-up comedian) and I'm snorting with laughter over here. I thought of you and wanted to put it on your radar in case you're looking for something new to watch.
He's super dry observational humor and I'm cracking up.
Cheers. Thinking of you!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/01/19 12:43 AM
FS, I am also a distancer. Its something I am working on. I still dont start conversations with my STBXW but I do chat with her now if she wants to talk. I got a couple of new tattoos. Yes I am an inky. She had also gotten one which is part of her GGW. But she wanted to show me and I said it was nice. I showed her mine, she liked one but was surprised at the other lol. A pair of lips on my upper chest. But she said it was nice and we talked about tattoo care and I gave her some after care products I use.
Thats much better than me before. Im trying to get along. No desire for an MR with her but I do want to be a good co-parent. Living in this house with her isnt comfortable for me. I dont feel at home at all anymore. But I see it fit to wait until D is done and I have all my money so I am fully prepared to move out. I still get zero consideration from her when she makes plans unfortunately. Meaning plans with the kids. Im just expected to accept whatever she wants.
Thats much better than me before. Im trying to get along. No desire for an MR with her but I do want to be a good co-parent. Living in this house with her isnt comfortable for me. I dont feel at home at all anymore. But I see it fit to wait until D is done and I have all my money so I am fully prepared to move out. I still get zero consideration from her when she makes plans unfortunately. Meaning plans with the kids. Im just expected to accept whatever she wants.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 06:04 AM
I am not a distancer unless I am emotionally vested. Most people would describe me as open and warm. Distancing is my way of handling my insecurity/fear of rejection. When people get too close, I back off. In all other aspects of my life I am fairly confident and self assured. Not sure if that makes sense. Probably not.
The lock thing was just him being absent minded. It was not intentional. What got my goat up was a) he forgot about me AGAIN, and b) the expectation I would drive half an hour out and half an hour back to come get the keys. In any case, the locks are changed now and, no, he was not happy about it. We were in the car with the kids, so he couldn't go off on one, and I said it was because I was locked out ("when were you locked out?") and that I would get him a copy of the keys cut, but I failed to mention I was only giving him one of the two keys. I got some grief about calling an emergency locksmith out (waste of money) but that was about it. He was mostly silent after that.
One last thing ... and this is just to see if I handled it properly.
H came to pick the girls up yesterday morning to take them to school and I asked if he could drop me off at the station (it is on his way). When I went to get in the car, D12 was in the front seat. She has been doing this a lot lately. H looked at me and said, "You'll need to sit in the back". When we got in the car, I said to D12 (in a banterish way) "you took mummy's seat". She said "Why do YOU get to sit in the front?". H smiled. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it so I just joked something back and said "that's ok, it means I get to sit in the back and hold D9's hand".
When I got home last night I spoke to her quietly and said that her behavior was disrespectful. She asked why, and I said that if she got in nanny and granddad's car she wouldn't sit in the front and make nanny sit in the back. I said I knew she didn't do it on purpose, she was just trying to get one on D9 (they argue over who sits in the front in my car) and that I wasn't mad, but I'd like her to not do it again. She took this quietly. But then started to cry. Not crazy tears. Just little ones. I don't want to make her anxiety worse, but I also want her to know that being disrespectful is not on. I can't talk to her dad about it because he will just say I am being ridiculous.
The lock thing was just him being absent minded. It was not intentional. What got my goat up was a) he forgot about me AGAIN, and b) the expectation I would drive half an hour out and half an hour back to come get the keys. In any case, the locks are changed now and, no, he was not happy about it. We were in the car with the kids, so he couldn't go off on one, and I said it was because I was locked out ("when were you locked out?") and that I would get him a copy of the keys cut, but I failed to mention I was only giving him one of the two keys. I got some grief about calling an emergency locksmith out (waste of money) but that was about it. He was mostly silent after that.
One last thing ... and this is just to see if I handled it properly.
H came to pick the girls up yesterday morning to take them to school and I asked if he could drop me off at the station (it is on his way). When I went to get in the car, D12 was in the front seat. She has been doing this a lot lately. H looked at me and said, "You'll need to sit in the back". When we got in the car, I said to D12 (in a banterish way) "you took mummy's seat". She said "Why do YOU get to sit in the front?". H smiled. I didn't want to make a big deal out of it so I just joked something back and said "that's ok, it means I get to sit in the back and hold D9's hand".
When I got home last night I spoke to her quietly and said that her behavior was disrespectful. She asked why, and I said that if she got in nanny and granddad's car she wouldn't sit in the front and make nanny sit in the back. I said I knew she didn't do it on purpose, she was just trying to get one on D9 (they argue over who sits in the front in my car) and that I wasn't mad, but I'd like her to not do it again. She took this quietly. But then started to cry. Not crazy tears. Just little ones. I don't want to make her anxiety worse, but I also want her to know that being disrespectful is not on. I can't talk to her dad about it because he will just say I am being ridiculous.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 06:48 AM
FS: the thing about you being a distancer only when you might get rejected is me to an absolute T. I'm extremely outgoing and confident and it's mostly in my marriage that I distance, though I was discussing this with my IC yesterday and there are times when I distance in my friendships too, like they are the ones who go to the effort of contacting me rather than the other way round. I'm 180ing on that to some extent. I realised too that if friends don't bother reaching out to me I just let those friendships lapse because I think they don't care. Hmm.
The thing with the front seat: I have had that same thing happen to me. I have had tantrums about it in the past (that doesn't go well, I don't recommend that behaviour!). It's complicated because on the one hand it's just a sibling rivalry thing, kids fight about going in the front seat. On the other hand it's extraordinarily disrespectful of your H AND your D12 to behave that way. We went through a phase of my kids sitting in the front seat and then laughing at me having to sit in the back, but dh went from letting them do that to saying 'no, that's not ok, you have to sit in the back'. It might be just a seat, but it's symbolic of you being pushed out. I think you should say something nicely to your husband about it if it happens again. Do you think it might have been partly him punishing you over the locks?
The thing with the front seat: I have had that same thing happen to me. I have had tantrums about it in the past (that doesn't go well, I don't recommend that behaviour!). It's complicated because on the one hand it's just a sibling rivalry thing, kids fight about going in the front seat. On the other hand it's extraordinarily disrespectful of your H AND your D12 to behave that way. We went through a phase of my kids sitting in the front seat and then laughing at me having to sit in the back, but dh went from letting them do that to saying 'no, that's not ok, you have to sit in the back'. It might be just a seat, but it's symbolic of you being pushed out. I think you should say something nicely to your husband about it if it happens again. Do you think it might have been partly him punishing you over the locks?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 07:31 AM
I'd have been hacked off about that car seat thing too, FS - and I think you did the right thing in speaking to your daughter about it. I suspect your H was enjoying it a bit - and it probably was to do with the locks - but who knows? In the past I would have allowed either of my children to do precisely that to H and if he'd have got upset about it (and his upset would have involved a tantrum or going on the attack about something else) I'd have treated him with complete contempt for a) making a fuss about something so tiny and b) showing his upset in such an immature way. We'd have both been right in some respects, and the whole thing would have been avoided if I'd have participated in requiring the kids to show him proper respect. So you've pricked my conscience a bit this morning!
If you were going to say something to your husband, it might go down better if you frame it in terms of what is best for your daughter. She's obviously finding aspects of the separation very challenging and perhaps you asking your H to show that you both have a firmly united front as parents (perhaps that is one of the things she was testing, if only subconsciously) would help her feel more secure? Do you think he'd be open to hearing that?
If you were going to say something to your husband, it might go down better if you frame it in terms of what is best for your daughter. She's obviously finding aspects of the separation very challenging and perhaps you asking your H to show that you both have a firmly united front as parents (perhaps that is one of the things she was testing, if only subconsciously) would help her feel more secure? Do you think he'd be open to hearing that?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 01:43 PM
Ugh... I would have been upset about the front seat situation too and I think dillydaff is right...I read that and immediately thought he was punishing you and using D12 to do it. Even with my H and I days away from divorce, he would have told our daughter to sit in the back and given that he is King Douchebag of Douchbag Land, that’s saying a lot. It’s a respect thing... adults in the front. You H was intentionally trying to put you on the same level as your children. Very disrespectful IMO. It wasn’t about being in the front or the back...it was the underlying message. Honestly FS, you deserve so much better. I really hope that you finish off that dating profile of yours and meet some people who would see you as the fantastic woman that you are. I think you would be very glad you did. (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 04:11 PM
Ugh ... wrote a proper response and then it crashed. Have to go pick up D12 now and then take girls to dinner so will do a proper response later ... but for now ...
"King Douchebag of Douchbag land"
classic ... had me spitting my coffee ...
"King Douchebag of Douchbag land"
classic ... had me spitting my coffee ...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/02/19 06:29 PM
It sounds like you handled it perfectly well. I like that it sounds like you didn’t give your H the satisfaction of letting him know it bothered you. Personally, I used to be the type to jump all over things like that with my H, and it never went well. One of my 180s is to really pick my battles and not feed into the little power struggles. Then if it comes up again I feel I have a bit of an upper hand. If not, I get to be the bigger person and to me personally right now, that tends to feel best.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/03/19 12:03 PM
Thanks guys -
I didn't tell him about the locks until we were in the car already so he wasn't punishing me for that. It was more habitual/normalised disrespect as opposed to anything malicious. A bit like expecting me to drive to his mums to pick up the keys, he didn't think there was anything wrong with the children sitting up front. I did see him smile when D12 said "Why do you get to sit in the front?" so it probably only hit him that in a way it was pushing me out.
He just doesn't think about me. Kind of like him saying "when were you locked out?" when I told him why I'd changed the locks. Locking me out of the house was such a minor deal to him he had already forgotten about it two days late.
I did end up speaking to him about the children sitting in the front seat when he came to take the girls to school this morning. I picked my time badly as we had just had a conversation about who was looking after the dog this weekend as I am away with the girls. I have booked a sitter. He thinks I should have spoken to him first as he is home this weekend (his schedule says "away"). In any case, I told him I'd spoken to D12 and then said I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. He huffed a little, gave me that look that said I was being ridiculous, said "ok" under his breath, then told the girls it was time to go. I sent him a text (in response to one from him re children related logistics) and said "also - wanted to say thanks for backing me up on the car seat thing".
On another note ...
I went to a play center with MIL yesterday. She called to say she was taking BIL's daughter and did the girls want to go. Only D12 was home (D9 had a netball game) so only D12 went. She is too big for the play center but she likes spending time with MIL. MIL and I use to be close, we use to joke about what a [censored[ H could be. Now, she doesn't know what to say to me. I know she would be ecstatic if we got back together, but the longer it goes on the weirder it gets for everyone. So, I was friendly and chatty and avoided R talks. She talks when she's nervous so I didn't need to say much. Just ask a question "how as your holiday" and off she'd go. I don't blame her nervousness and reluctance to see me. She doesn't want to get in the middle of things.
I will say that H's trust issues, his anxiety and his need to be right all the time come from her. Again, not blame. But I think to understand someone (and forgive them) you need to understand where they come from. Doesn't help a toss in terms of R, but it helps the resentment to subside.
When we left I said "Great, I guess I'll see you when I see you". She laughed nervously and replied "you know you're always welcome when the girls come round" knowing full well that it doesn't matter whether I am welcome or not. It is up to H to invite me ...
I didn't tell him about the locks until we were in the car already so he wasn't punishing me for that. It was more habitual/normalised disrespect as opposed to anything malicious. A bit like expecting me to drive to his mums to pick up the keys, he didn't think there was anything wrong with the children sitting up front. I did see him smile when D12 said "Why do you get to sit in the front?" so it probably only hit him that in a way it was pushing me out.
He just doesn't think about me. Kind of like him saying "when were you locked out?" when I told him why I'd changed the locks. Locking me out of the house was such a minor deal to him he had already forgotten about it two days late.
I did end up speaking to him about the children sitting in the front seat when he came to take the girls to school this morning. I picked my time badly as we had just had a conversation about who was looking after the dog this weekend as I am away with the girls. I have booked a sitter. He thinks I should have spoken to him first as he is home this weekend (his schedule says "away"). In any case, I told him I'd spoken to D12 and then said I wanted to make sure we were on the same page. He huffed a little, gave me that look that said I was being ridiculous, said "ok" under his breath, then told the girls it was time to go. I sent him a text (in response to one from him re children related logistics) and said "also - wanted to say thanks for backing me up on the car seat thing".
On another note ...
I went to a play center with MIL yesterday. She called to say she was taking BIL's daughter and did the girls want to go. Only D12 was home (D9 had a netball game) so only D12 went. She is too big for the play center but she likes spending time with MIL. MIL and I use to be close, we use to joke about what a [censored[ H could be. Now, she doesn't know what to say to me. I know she would be ecstatic if we got back together, but the longer it goes on the weirder it gets for everyone. So, I was friendly and chatty and avoided R talks. She talks when she's nervous so I didn't need to say much. Just ask a question "how as your holiday" and off she'd go. I don't blame her nervousness and reluctance to see me. She doesn't want to get in the middle of things.
I will say that H's trust issues, his anxiety and his need to be right all the time come from her. Again, not blame. But I think to understand someone (and forgive them) you need to understand where they come from. Doesn't help a toss in terms of R, but it helps the resentment to subside.
When we left I said "Great, I guess I'll see you when I see you". She laughed nervously and replied "you know you're always welcome when the girls come round" knowing full well that it doesn't matter whether I am welcome or not. It is up to H to invite me ...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/03/19 12:18 PM
Hey FS, just don´t give H the power that he doesn´t have. You are perfectly in charge of your journey. Don´t let that negative energy interfere with your positive attitude.
Boundaries set, keep your pace forward girl!
Boundaries set, keep your pace forward girl!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/06/19 06:15 PM
Thanks Neff.
The power he had over me was driven by fear. Fear he would leave, then fear he would not come back. But while I still hold hope for our marriage, I am just walking my path and doing what I think is best for me and the girls.
I have set (unenforceable) boundaries and he is not reacting as badly as I thought he would. Don't get me wrong, a year ago that fear was based on reality. He would have reacted and I would have been left in tears. Now, there is a momentary change in temperature but that's it. He is nicer to me now than he has been in a long long time.
Things have changed. And he knows.
The power he had over me was driven by fear. Fear he would leave, then fear he would not come back. But while I still hold hope for our marriage, I am just walking my path and doing what I think is best for me and the girls.
I have set (unenforceable) boundaries and he is not reacting as badly as I thought he would. Don't get me wrong, a year ago that fear was based on reality. He would have reacted and I would have been left in tears. Now, there is a momentary change in temperature but that's it. He is nicer to me now than he has been in a long long time.
Things have changed. And he knows.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/06/19 08:27 PM
This sounds so positive, FS. What I am learning from you is that acting calmly without fear always has good results and they are nothing to do with the reaction, good or bad, you get from your H. I wish I could be in this place. I still have so much fear - but now and again I feel that steady ground under my feet and I am moving in that direction.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/06/19 10:11 PM
I am trying. I don't always succeed, but I fail much less than I use to .
Just got back from three days in Brighton with the girls. We had a really good time. We walked along the sea front, played the arcade games, ate ice cream, watched a live comedy (kids) show, walked around a food fair and took a trip on the i360. There was lots of spontaneous laughter. Plus, the energy and vibrancy of Brighton reminds me a lot of Bondi or Manly so feels very familiar.
We stayed one night in a hotel and one night with a girlfriend. She threw her H a few days before christmas, and whilst it's not a case of good girl gone bad, she is certainly miles ahead of me in the 'detaching' thing. I know others may disagree, but I do think having a [censored] of a W/H makes the detaching thing easier. My H calls his kids every day. I hear him trying to painfully coax conversation out of a 9 and 12 year old, which isn't easy, but he perseveres. He goes to every netball, football and school event he can. He sees them every day he can. He drives 20 mins over here in morning just to take them to school. In the last month he has just taken them to legoland for three days and I heard him say just now to D12 that he is taking them to theme park for another two days at the end of the month (he has taken a week off work whilst they're on half term). He might be a flawed human, he might be a [censored] of a H, but he is a good father. I think I would rather that he is a good father to his children, and have to put up with this uncertainty, then he be a complete [censored] and I be able to move on. Anyway, I think AS post on his half brother and spending three days with a girlfriend whose H is a [censored] has made me grateful that my kids have two parents that love them very very much.
When I got back today, I noticed some packages on the island in the kitchen that must have come whilst I was away. I text H to see if he had been by the house whilst I was away. He replied that yes, he had taken the back door key saturday when he came to visit the girls. He obvs had enough foresight to pocket the back door key when he was here, but he could have not moved the packages at all, and I would never have been the wiser. I was planning to give him one of the keys to the front (we have two locks so if I give him one, he will have to tell me when he is coming over so that I leave the other one unlocked) so may ask for the back door key back then.
Also, MIL text me whilst I was away to ask if she could take D12 to a book signing after her next counselling session. I replied that I would prefer her to come home (it will be the first session on her own) as I think it is best that either I or her dad is with her after. I don't know how she will be after. It could be nothing, or she could be really stressed out. My plan is to get takeway and sit with her to watch one of her programs or play board games with her and D9. Nothing major. Just a quiet night in. That way she is in the comfort of her own home, there is no rushing about, and we are there if she needs us. I know this probably didn't go down well with MIL but I did have D12's interest at heart. I did end the text exchange with "Thanks for understanding. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. X".
No Yoga for three days but lots of GALg with kids and lots of really good food. Brighton has really good food.
.Just got back from three days in Brighton with the girls. We had a really good time. We walked along the sea front, played the arcade games, ate ice cream, watched a live comedy (kids) show, walked around a food fair and took a trip on the i360. There was lots of spontaneous laughter. Plus, the energy and vibrancy of Brighton reminds me a lot of Bondi or Manly so feels very familiar.
We stayed one night in a hotel and one night with a girlfriend. She threw her H a few days before christmas, and whilst it's not a case of good girl gone bad, she is certainly miles ahead of me in the 'detaching' thing. I know others may disagree, but I do think having a [censored] of a W/H makes the detaching thing easier. My H calls his kids every day. I hear him trying to painfully coax conversation out of a 9 and 12 year old, which isn't easy, but he perseveres. He goes to every netball, football and school event he can. He sees them every day he can. He drives 20 mins over here in morning just to take them to school. In the last month he has just taken them to legoland for three days and I heard him say just now to D12 that he is taking them to theme park for another two days at the end of the month (he has taken a week off work whilst they're on half term). He might be a flawed human, he might be a [censored] of a H, but he is a good father. I think I would rather that he is a good father to his children, and have to put up with this uncertainty, then he be a complete [censored] and I be able to move on. Anyway, I think AS post on his half brother and spending three days with a girlfriend whose H is a [censored] has made me grateful that my kids have two parents that love them very very much.
When I got back today, I noticed some packages on the island in the kitchen that must have come whilst I was away. I text H to see if he had been by the house whilst I was away. He replied that yes, he had taken the back door key saturday when he came to visit the girls. He obvs had enough foresight to pocket the back door key when he was here, but he could have not moved the packages at all, and I would never have been the wiser. I was planning to give him one of the keys to the front (we have two locks so if I give him one, he will have to tell me when he is coming over so that I leave the other one unlocked) so may ask for the back door key back then.
Also, MIL text me whilst I was away to ask if she could take D12 to a book signing after her next counselling session. I replied that I would prefer her to come home (it will be the first session on her own) as I think it is best that either I or her dad is with her after. I don't know how she will be after. It could be nothing, or she could be really stressed out. My plan is to get takeway and sit with her to watch one of her programs or play board games with her and D9. Nothing major. Just a quiet night in. That way she is in the comfort of her own home, there is no rushing about, and we are there if she needs us. I know this probably didn't go down well with MIL but I did have D12's interest at heart. I did end the text exchange with "Thanks for understanding. Enjoy the rest of your weekend. X".
No Yoga for three days but lots of GALg with kids and lots of really good food. Brighton has really good food.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/07/19 06:32 AM
That's lovely, so glad you had a good weekend
The key thing, mmm.
The key thing, mmm.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/07/19 09:48 AM
That key thing is really weird. Really weird. Like - he certainly can keep his memory clear and wits about him with keys when it suits him, can't he? How do you plan to handle asking for it back?
I know what you mean about him being a good dad. I've just posted in my thread about H's parenting right now. I think at the moment he is probably doing his best and his best just isn't that great, objectively. It has made it easier to detach from him. I really don't want him living here when he's just this seeping ball of self pity and misery and blame in the corner. It would be harder if he was jolly and together and sorted and just not here.
I know what you mean about him being a good dad. I've just posted in my thread about H's parenting right now. I think at the moment he is probably doing his best and his best just isn't that great, objectively. It has made it easier to detach from him. I really don't want him living here when he's just this seeping ball of self pity and misery and blame in the corner. It would be harder if he was jolly and together and sorted and just not here.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 01:07 PM
Journalling
Its been a busy week work and children wise.
D12 was ill with migraines again most of the week so have had to stay home quite a lot. H thinks she might need to see a doctor again in case it's something serious. I couldn't get her in to see a doctor (the UK medical system is both wonderful once you've been diagnosed, but simple things like seeing a GP requires a lot of loops to be jumped) so we tried the prescription pain killers they gave us (they only give you six and it's squirted up her nose) - but she said it didn't help. She also had her first IC appointment on Thursday which was probably making her anxious. At the same time I have seen glimpses of my old daughter back - the one who laughed and smiled a lot. I think that's to do with spending more time together, my being more mindful of being patient with her and also that her dad and I are getting along.
Her IC appointment went OK I think. This one was with the actual therapist who she will see for the next ten weeks. The last one was just the assessment. The therapist was nice. Mid 30's and female - the last one was a male in his 50's - so my daughter will probably feel more comfortable opening up with her. I stayed with them for the first 30 minutes and the therapist just asked her questions about her life. After 30 minutes she asked me to wait in the waiting room and they sat and talked alone. I did not ask how it was, but D12 came out relatively relaxed. I really hope this allows her to open up about her feelings. It's been over a year of bottling it up.
H asked me last night why I had said no to his mum taking D12 to the book signing. I explained that it was on the same evening as the counselling, and I preferred D12 to be home after - in case she was upset or stressed. I had explained all this to his mum, but obviously she only told him that I had said no without giving him the reasons as to why.
I know it does not matter and there is nothing I can do, but it annoys me his family automatically assume the worst of people.
I had a gardener in yesterday to start work on the back garden. It has been an eyesore for a while. Over the years, we have worked on renovating pretty much all of this house, and the garden was the final piece. H would maintain it - mow the lawn, cut back the trees, but neither of us are gardeners and it was never a huge priority. H still maintains it, but only when he feels like it, so the grass hasn't been mowed for three weeks and the trees haven't really been done since last year. It was good to just tell someone what I wanted done and have him do it. A part of me was "H should be paying for half of this" but decided that I live here and deserve to have a garden I want to sit in. When H came over the drop off the girls this morning his first question was "who cut the lawn?".
I have not asked him for the backdoor key back and he has not offered. He has also not asked me when I will be getting him a key cut (I still haven't done it). I will have to do it today as he is looking after the girls a fair bit this week and will need to come back to the house to get bits and bobs for them. He did say he is also going to do some work in the garden.
Anyway, we continue on this strange journey. He has been away for four days and then had the girls the last two days - he dropped them off this morning - and now he is going to London to watch the football. I am taking the girls into town to buy a present for one of their friends and then going to do some planting with D9, if the weather holds.
I am content. But I think this goes to show that we can get accustomed to anything, even limbo. And that's a little bit scary.
Its been a busy week work and children wise.
D12 was ill with migraines again most of the week so have had to stay home quite a lot. H thinks she might need to see a doctor again in case it's something serious. I couldn't get her in to see a doctor (the UK medical system is both wonderful once you've been diagnosed, but simple things like seeing a GP requires a lot of loops to be jumped) so we tried the prescription pain killers they gave us (they only give you six and it's squirted up her nose) - but she said it didn't help. She also had her first IC appointment on Thursday which was probably making her anxious. At the same time I have seen glimpses of my old daughter back - the one who laughed and smiled a lot. I think that's to do with spending more time together, my being more mindful of being patient with her and also that her dad and I are getting along.
Her IC appointment went OK I think. This one was with the actual therapist who she will see for the next ten weeks. The last one was just the assessment. The therapist was nice. Mid 30's and female - the last one was a male in his 50's - so my daughter will probably feel more comfortable opening up with her. I stayed with them for the first 30 minutes and the therapist just asked her questions about her life. After 30 minutes she asked me to wait in the waiting room and they sat and talked alone. I did not ask how it was, but D12 came out relatively relaxed. I really hope this allows her to open up about her feelings. It's been over a year of bottling it up.
H asked me last night why I had said no to his mum taking D12 to the book signing. I explained that it was on the same evening as the counselling, and I preferred D12 to be home after - in case she was upset or stressed. I had explained all this to his mum, but obviously she only told him that I had said no without giving him the reasons as to why.
I know it does not matter and there is nothing I can do, but it annoys me his family automatically assume the worst of people.
I had a gardener in yesterday to start work on the back garden. It has been an eyesore for a while. Over the years, we have worked on renovating pretty much all of this house, and the garden was the final piece. H would maintain it - mow the lawn, cut back the trees, but neither of us are gardeners and it was never a huge priority. H still maintains it, but only when he feels like it, so the grass hasn't been mowed for three weeks and the trees haven't really been done since last year. It was good to just tell someone what I wanted done and have him do it. A part of me was "H should be paying for half of this" but decided that I live here and deserve to have a garden I want to sit in. When H came over the drop off the girls this morning his first question was "who cut the lawn?".
I have not asked him for the backdoor key back and he has not offered. He has also not asked me when I will be getting him a key cut (I still haven't done it). I will have to do it today as he is looking after the girls a fair bit this week and will need to come back to the house to get bits and bobs for them. He did say he is also going to do some work in the garden.
Anyway, we continue on this strange journey. He has been away for four days and then had the girls the last two days - he dropped them off this morning - and now he is going to London to watch the football. I am taking the girls into town to buy a present for one of their friends and then going to do some planting with D9, if the weather holds.
I am content. But I think this goes to show that we can get accustomed to anything, even limbo. And that's a little bit scary.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 01:29 PM
I hope D12 connects with her IC. It sounds like the first meeting could be called a success. I'm glad.
You don't update about D9 quite as much - I assume because she is not suffering the same anxiety as her sister. How is she doing?
I agree with you on your thoughts to not ask H for half the cost of the lawncare. You are having it done so you can enjoy it while you live there - so you choose to pay for it. That makes sense, and has the added benefit of being a "no-pressure" decision. Asking him for money would be tying him to the house when he clearly doesn't *really* wish to be right now unless on his own terms.
With your amicable/friendly co-parenting right now I think H is responding well to your independence. Keep this up! You've got it covered as a competent woman and mother.
I wonder about your last sentence of living in limbo. Do you still feel limbo? Or have you released enough of your H that you feel more that this is just your new normal, and that you can now handle uncertainty and change with courage?
I feel limbo is a stage when we are still hanging on to the outcome too much. Once we release our hold on the outcome and accept that "what will be will be" I feel it's less "limbo" and more just living life with all of its twists and turns.
That seems to me to be more where you are at. Accepting the changes as they come with grace.
You don't update about D9 quite as much - I assume because she is not suffering the same anxiety as her sister. How is she doing?
I agree with you on your thoughts to not ask H for half the cost of the lawncare. You are having it done so you can enjoy it while you live there - so you choose to pay for it. That makes sense, and has the added benefit of being a "no-pressure" decision. Asking him for money would be tying him to the house when he clearly doesn't *really* wish to be right now unless on his own terms.
With your amicable/friendly co-parenting right now I think H is responding well to your independence. Keep this up! You've got it covered as a competent woman and mother.
I wonder about your last sentence of living in limbo. Do you still feel limbo? Or have you released enough of your H that you feel more that this is just your new normal, and that you can now handle uncertainty and change with courage?
I feel limbo is a stage when we are still hanging on to the outcome too much. Once we release our hold on the outcome and accept that "what will be will be" I feel it's less "limbo" and more just living life with all of its twists and turns.
That seems to me to be more where you are at. Accepting the changes as they come with grace.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 04:21 PM
I've been thinking about limbo a lot recently.
I wonder if we're always, always in limbo - we just fool ourselves. Even in a stable happy marriage, someone could get sick, or have a secret life, or leave out of the blue. Someone could drop dead. We could fall out of love or win the lottery or... well, anything. Life is unpredictable. Everything changes. Very little is in our control. I wonder if we're always, always in limbo and a steady marriage makes us forget that. I think if I end up R with H I wouldn't want to take our R for granted again, and I'd always want to assume he could leave at any time and was choosing to stay with me because he wanted to and it was best for him, and I'd want to do my part to make sure the conditions of our marriage and home life were best for him.
I'm not sure I am expressing myself very well here. I just mean - maybe hoping for solidity is part of the problem, and the solidity of where we were before BD was an unhealthy thing, rather than something to go back to.
I wonder if we're always, always in limbo - we just fool ourselves. Even in a stable happy marriage, someone could get sick, or have a secret life, or leave out of the blue. Someone could drop dead. We could fall out of love or win the lottery or... well, anything. Life is unpredictable. Everything changes. Very little is in our control. I wonder if we're always, always in limbo and a steady marriage makes us forget that. I think if I end up R with H I wouldn't want to take our R for granted again, and I'd always want to assume he could leave at any time and was choosing to stay with me because he wanted to and it was best for him, and I'd want to do my part to make sure the conditions of our marriage and home life were best for him.
I'm not sure I am expressing myself very well here. I just mean - maybe hoping for solidity is part of the problem, and the solidity of where we were before BD was an unhealthy thing, rather than something to go back to.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 05:05 PM
Alison - I agree that limbo is always there in a R to some extent. But there’s a difference between accepting R’s can fall apart at any time and being insecure about R’s. I took my W for granted, yes. I also feel like she took me for granted. It happens. I wanted solidity. When I got insecure is when things fell apart. It was self fulfilling. Or maybe it was me being complacent for awhile, then expressing my R needs, which set us off down this path. Maybe I am slowly waking up to the fact that this M simply cannot exist as is, and unless both me and my W commit to change, we are better off separate. I was unhappy with the M, and now I’m miserable because I realize it is ending. And yet... I still wait for table scraps, for those little moments of connection, as fleeting as they are. And I KNOW without a doubt it is over yet I still fall for it, every time.
You can’t control other people. They can walk at any time. I’m here because I believe DB will teach me how to handle these unforeseen life events with equanimity and perspective. I want to be happy. I believe this will help me in all relationships.
I can tell you and I both struggle. We see those little signs from our spouse and hope it means something. But it really doesn’t. We need to look inward for happiness.
You can’t control other people. They can walk at any time. I’m here because I believe DB will teach me how to handle these unforeseen life events with equanimity and perspective. I want to be happy. I believe this will help me in all relationships.
I can tell you and I both struggle. We see those little signs from our spouse and hope it means something. But it really doesn’t. We need to look inward for happiness.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 05:06 PM
Also - if you get back together, your H should also treat YOU as if you could leave at anytime. Command respect. R’s go both ways. (Do as I say not as I do, still a beginner here!)
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/12/19 08:24 PM
Hey FS. Not much to add here but wanted you to know I am still following along and hoping things work out in the end for you and your family. So glad D12 is seeing a counsellor. It will be good for her to be able to talk to someone whose feelings she can’t hurt. As always, you’re doing great. As long as limbo is okay for you, no point in trying to force anything. You will know when it is time, I think. (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/13/19 06:38 AM
That's great about D12 counselling.
I dunno, I agree with Alison that life is never as stable as we assume it is. Life can turn in a different direction in seconds. We think everything is stable but that's an illusion.
That said, I think the defining feature of limbo for almost everyone on here is that the spouse has the power. Whether that's only temporary power or whether that power changes isn't that relevant, we are waiting for our spouses to take some sort of action to move on from limbo. GAL is taking some of that power back, but the spouse still has most of the power because they left/are leaving/are having an A and yet we are waiting for a resolution of some sort.
Some days I feel at peace being in limbo and feel acceptance, other days or moments I rage against it and cry and vow to take action. Then back to acceptance.
I dunno, I agree with Alison that life is never as stable as we assume it is. Life can turn in a different direction in seconds. We think everything is stable but that's an illusion.
That said, I think the defining feature of limbo for almost everyone on here is that the spouse has the power. Whether that's only temporary power or whether that power changes isn't that relevant, we are waiting for our spouses to take some sort of action to move on from limbo. GAL is taking some of that power back, but the spouse still has most of the power because they left/are leaving/are having an A and yet we are waiting for a resolution of some sort.
Some days I feel at peace being in limbo and feel acceptance, other days or moments I rage against it and cry and vow to take action. Then back to acceptance.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/13/19 01:52 PM
Dilly, I totally agree with your differentiation of limbo. It absolutely comes down to the waiting aspect. As much as I try to get my power back by GAL/setting boundaries/ detaching (and those things do give us a bit of our power back, I believe) you are right; we are waiting for our spouse to take action, one way or another. Obviously that’s where the patience comes in, but god it gets so hard after a lot of time has passed. I too go through stages of acceptance and patience, and then resentment about it and decide to take action. But then I can’t bring myself to do invest the time/effort/emotional energy/money to initiate a divorce I don’t want. A big part of me feels like if he truly wants that, he will have to stop being passive and be the one to make it happen. And then part of me thinks, clearly he doesn’t completely want that otherwise he’d be doing it...and the internal battle goes on and the waiting in limbo continues. I do feel like no matter how much we can detach, the nature of this is waiting for our spouse. when I get a crumb of hope,
I feel like I could wait as long as it takes. When I’m discouraged I question everything I’m doing. It’s tiring.
I feel like I could wait as long as it takes. When I’m discouraged I question everything I’m doing. It’s tiring.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/13/19 02:02 PM
Unchien - I think you're right. There is a difference between limbo and taking things for granted and security. I guess I put a lot of my security or emotional well being into my husband's lap. Now I am gradually taking it back. I would like to repair my marriage (or at least, I feel like that today - other days I am very ambivalent) but if it isn't possible, then I want to be okay. I want to have security in myself and my spirituality, rather than my marriage and my H, which are things outside of my control. I am not there yet. And I think getting there is the first challenge. The second challenge will be to keep my sense of security in myself while also repairing my M. Being intimate without being dependent. I don't know how to do that.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/14/19 10:20 AM
Yail - Both my girls are naturally intuitive (are all children?). They sense the temperature in the room. But unlike her sister, she does not internalize any of it. She knows when things are tense and will give one or both of us a cuddle. When she leaves to go to her dads she will run up and give me the biggest hug you can imagine and tell me how much she loves me. D9 is, in a strange way, my rock. She is her dads too. She doesn't demand anything in return. Just that we are free with our cuddles back. She has a naturally happy temperament - she can't ever walk like a normal person, she has to skip or jump or look for walls to walk on. She will put together the strangest most colorful outfits (dots and animal prints, stripes which go in opposing directions) and when her sister chastises her for dressing weird she firmly says back "I don't want to be like everyone else". I hope she will always be as secure in herself as she is today.
Limbo verses 'just living' your life. Sometimes I wish I could just move on. A dating app is installed on my phone, and although I have not yet set up a profile, I look at it at least once a day to see what else 'is out there'. There are times when I wonder if I am deluding myself that there is any hope left. There are days when I wonder if I am standing out of pride and/or fear. I tell myself patience but if I were to be honest, it is wearing thin.
There are times when I wonder if I am over thinking it. Maybe there is nothing left. I don't even think he is cake eating any more. Just biding his time until the two years separation are up and we can D (here it is two years unless one party has been unreasonable/having an A). He does not want to be blamed for this, and if I file, the system here (before two years) is one party must be to blame. A friend said a few weeks back "I don't trust him - he's scheming" and maybe she's right.
Limbo verses 'just living' your life. Sometimes I wish I could just move on. A dating app is installed on my phone, and although I have not yet set up a profile, I look at it at least once a day to see what else 'is out there'. There are times when I wonder if I am deluding myself that there is any hope left. There are days when I wonder if I am standing out of pride and/or fear. I tell myself patience but if I were to be honest, it is wearing thin.
There are times when I wonder if I am over thinking it. Maybe there is nothing left. I don't even think he is cake eating any more. Just biding his time until the two years separation are up and we can D (here it is two years unless one party has been unreasonable/having an A). He does not want to be blamed for this, and if I file, the system here (before two years) is one party must be to blame. A friend said a few weeks back "I don't trust him - he's scheming" and maybe she's right.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/14/19 11:01 AM
Interesting discussion here about limbo earlier.
My take - all life is limbo. Change is constant - we get comfortable in our lives, and for the most part everything appears the same. But tiny minuscule changes are happening everyday, including with our S's and even within ourselves.
IMO it's our perspectives that suddenly shift when we see something in a different light. It happened with my W and this threw me into a tailspin because I hadn't shifted my perspective yet. Then gradually, mine shifted as well.
An example of this is when BD happened. W said it was possible to fall out of love without there being OP. My perspective is still what pre-DB W and mine had been: you have to work at love after yrs of being in an R. It is not something that "just happens". Its a choice. You decide to be with someone or pursue that person because of the feeling you have. But nobody forces you to be with that person. It's a decision you make.
Her sudden perspective shift on this really made me see how much change she had gone through in such a short time. It also made me start to question a lot of things, and through this I discovered that at least for me all life is limbo.
My take - all life is limbo. Change is constant - we get comfortable in our lives, and for the most part everything appears the same. But tiny minuscule changes are happening everyday, including with our S's and even within ourselves.
IMO it's our perspectives that suddenly shift when we see something in a different light. It happened with my W and this threw me into a tailspin because I hadn't shifted my perspective yet. Then gradually, mine shifted as well.
An example of this is when BD happened. W said it was possible to fall out of love without there being OP. My perspective is still what pre-DB W and mine had been: you have to work at love after yrs of being in an R. It is not something that "just happens". Its a choice. You decide to be with someone or pursue that person because of the feeling you have. But nobody forces you to be with that person. It's a decision you make.
Her sudden perspective shift on this really made me see how much change she had gone through in such a short time. It also made me start to question a lot of things, and through this I discovered that at least for me all life is limbo.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/14/19 11:26 AM
I can't take the limbo of life! I hate it! I have built this awesome family over the last couple of decades, and now it is being destroyed. And there seems to be nothing I can do about it.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/14/19 12:57 PM
FS,
It sounds like your D has a strong sense of herself, and that means you have done something right. It is great that you are able to take comfort and find joy in your time with her. Take advantage of that. It is a gift.
In terms of whether to stand or move on, that is completely up to you. You will know when it is right for you. My sense is that it takes longer with IHS and with children, but it is also completely personal. Trust yourself and take the time you need.
Just two quick notes on that - 1) Regardless of whether you stand or not, you are moving forward with your life. Not choosing is a choice itself. Just keep working on yourself, finding your joy and gratitude where you can find it. 2) If/When you decide to move on you have a brilliant future out there if you open yourself up to the possibilities. I remember my sheer terror a year ago as I faced the possibility of being divorced at 42. It shook my soul to the point of making me nauseous. Now, I see the blank canvas as a chance to do it right, to keep growing in ways that I never would have before.
hugs,
It sounds like your D has a strong sense of herself, and that means you have done something right. It is great that you are able to take comfort and find joy in your time with her. Take advantage of that. It is a gift.
In terms of whether to stand or move on, that is completely up to you. You will know when it is right for you. My sense is that it takes longer with IHS and with children, but it is also completely personal. Trust yourself and take the time you need.
Just two quick notes on that - 1) Regardless of whether you stand or not, you are moving forward with your life. Not choosing is a choice itself. Just keep working on yourself, finding your joy and gratitude where you can find it. 2) If/When you decide to move on you have a brilliant future out there if you open yourself up to the possibilities. I remember my sheer terror a year ago as I faced the possibility of being divorced at 42. It shook my soul to the point of making me nauseous. Now, I see the blank canvas as a chance to do it right, to keep growing in ways that I never would have before.
hugs,
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/17/19 10:50 PM
Davide - yes, D9 is very secure in herself. She bounces along to the music in her head and is just happy being happy. To see the world through the eyes of a 9 year old. I am forever greatful that they are both in my life. Life would certainly be easier without them ... but I would rather they were in my life, and all the stresses it brings, then not.
I know I am moving forward, I can feel it. But that pain is always there. Not the all consuming, can’t get myself off the floor and constantly doubting myself pain - that is long gone, replaced by a numbness that I can’t seem to shake. A constant knot in my stomach/pain in my chest that seems to just be a part of me now. I find moments of joy, moments of laughter and happiness, but these are fleeting. Rationally, I know I am better off. The last year of my M was not a M at all. But feelings and logic don’t always align.
This entry sounds melancholy, and that isn’t intended. I am grateful for the many things I have. I have a job I am appreciated for doing and get remunerated for well, a gorgeous home, I am healthy and, by all accounts attractive, and I have two children who are growing up to be good people. I am one of the lucky ones. I try and remind myself of all of this every day. But the emptiness is still there. Only I can rid myself of it .. and only time will do that.
I know I am moving forward, I can feel it. But that pain is always there. Not the all consuming, can’t get myself off the floor and constantly doubting myself pain - that is long gone, replaced by a numbness that I can’t seem to shake. A constant knot in my stomach/pain in my chest that seems to just be a part of me now. I find moments of joy, moments of laughter and happiness, but these are fleeting. Rationally, I know I am better off. The last year of my M was not a M at all. But feelings and logic don’t always align.
This entry sounds melancholy, and that isn’t intended. I am grateful for the many things I have. I have a job I am appreciated for doing and get remunerated for well, a gorgeous home, I am healthy and, by all accounts attractive, and I have two children who are growing up to be good people. I am one of the lucky ones. I try and remind myself of all of this every day. But the emptiness is still there. Only I can rid myself of it .. and only time will do that.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/17/19 11:04 PM
Journal entry
D12s 2nd counselling session went well. I sat in reception whilst she had her appointment. She was less anxious this time and after the appointment even said she thinks D9 would benefit from going. This is a real 180 for her. Two weeks ago she was begging us not to make her go saying she didn’t need to go, there was nothing wrong and that she was fine. I am clocking this as a ein.
I am not able to do the friendly neighbour thing with H at the moment. He was supposed to help with the children so I could go on a work trip but backed out the night before. He had a valid reason but he wasn’t willing to even meet me half way and the sudden change in plans did not go down too well at work. People were relying on me and I, foolishly, was relying on him. I know my 180 is to be less distancing with him but sometimes I feel like my openness is just allowing him to cake eat. I want to be friendly with him .. distancing is not attractive ... but it does sometimes feel like “mug”.
DV - I have activated my profile in the OLD site. I seem to be attracting lots of men who are young enough for me to have given birth too and those that are within my age range feel too old. I am also seeing lots of photos of shirtless men at the gym/beach showing off their abs. Where have all the normal people gone?!?!?
D12s 2nd counselling session went well. I sat in reception whilst she had her appointment. She was less anxious this time and after the appointment even said she thinks D9 would benefit from going. This is a real 180 for her. Two weeks ago she was begging us not to make her go saying she didn’t need to go, there was nothing wrong and that she was fine. I am clocking this as a ein.
I am not able to do the friendly neighbour thing with H at the moment. He was supposed to help with the children so I could go on a work trip but backed out the night before. He had a valid reason but he wasn’t willing to even meet me half way and the sudden change in plans did not go down too well at work. People were relying on me and I, foolishly, was relying on him. I know my 180 is to be less distancing with him but sometimes I feel like my openness is just allowing him to cake eat. I want to be friendly with him .. distancing is not attractive ... but it does sometimes feel like “mug”.
DV - I have activated my profile in the OLD site. I seem to be attracting lots of men who are young enough for me to have given birth too and those that are within my age range feel too old. I am also seeing lots of photos of shirtless men at the gym/beach showing off their abs. Where have all the normal people gone?!?!?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/17/19 11:44 PM
FS I am SO pleased to hear of D12s attitude after her 2nd session. That is great news.
Understand your feelings towards H at the moment, so I don't have much to say on that. I'm sorry that it happened and that it is happening. Hopefully eventually there will be some sort of resolution as to how he can work through it better with you next time. That might not come for a bit, but I hope it comes.
I don't even know what to say about the OLD site. I'm guessing DV is leaving you a virtual high-five. But I think you'll find the normal people eventually. If you just activated it remember that people do cycle through it, so just keep it as a possibility. It only takes 1 interesting person to lead to an interesting date. In being open to the dating site perhaps that will open up something in your universe and you'll meet someone interesting while at the grocery store instead. You've opened one door to peek inside but don't forget there are so many others that also may open simultaneously. Don't worry if there isn't anything interesting behind Door #1.
Understand your feelings towards H at the moment, so I don't have much to say on that. I'm sorry that it happened and that it is happening. Hopefully eventually there will be some sort of resolution as to how he can work through it better with you next time. That might not come for a bit, but I hope it comes.
I don't even know what to say about the OLD site. I'm guessing DV is leaving you a virtual high-five. But I think you'll find the normal people eventually. If you just activated it remember that people do cycle through it, so just keep it as a possibility. It only takes 1 interesting person to lead to an interesting date. In being open to the dating site perhaps that will open up something in your universe and you'll meet someone interesting while at the grocery store instead. You've opened one door to peek inside but don't forget there are so many others that also may open simultaneously. Don't worry if there isn't anything interesting behind Door #1.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 12:27 AM
Hi FS,
I'm glad to hear D is warming up to therapy. I'm a big proponent of counseling but I was highly resistant as a 16hr old when my parents made me go after my brother died. It's normal for a teen/tween to be skeptical at first.
In terms of H your anger is justified. F#$@ him.
As to OLD, I hear you about finding lots of strange eggs out there. I feel similarly that people my age seem old to me. Of course most of them have kids. Its hard. Be patient. I don't see shirtless poses, but lots of car selfies, bathroom selfies, duck faces, and Snapchat filters (cringe). I will also say that the quality may vary greatly by the site/app you are using and different ones are better in different locales. I have had the most success on Hinge and Bumble but results obviously may vary. Regardless, congrats on putting yourself out there.
I'm glad to hear D is warming up to therapy. I'm a big proponent of counseling but I was highly resistant as a 16hr old when my parents made me go after my brother died. It's normal for a teen/tween to be skeptical at first.
In terms of H your anger is justified. F#$@ him.
As to OLD, I hear you about finding lots of strange eggs out there. I feel similarly that people my age seem old to me. Of course most of them have kids. Its hard. Be patient. I don't see shirtless poses, but lots of car selfies, bathroom selfies, duck faces, and Snapchat filters (cringe). I will also say that the quality may vary greatly by the site/app you are using and different ones are better in different locales. I have had the most success on Hinge and Bumble but results obviously may vary. Regardless, congrats on putting yourself out there.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 07:41 AM
That sounds hard FS. I'd be really really angry in your position too. It's a lack of respect, isn't it? An assumption on his part that you are the default parent. What would happen if you refused to take care of the children on his work days? He'll never need to find out because you wouldn't do that - and the way he does the childcare schedule sort of demonstrates he has that kind of confidence in you. It is a hard place to be because you have very little choice. I have a lot of resentment like this too - thinking that if I'd done what H has done - picking and choosing when to see his kids, seeing them in my house for a couple of hours twice a week, doing no significant childcare at all - then he'd be absolutely scuppered. And he's never needed to worry about that, the way I've had to worry about whether he will take them when I'm away next week, and cope with it, and parent them both properly. It is hard.
Do your friends who think he is scheming know you both well?
Do your friends who think he is scheming know you both well?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 07:55 AM
That's so great about the counselling FS! That is infuriating about your H letting you down like that, have you had an open conversation with him about it? Not an angry one but something like 'I looked unprofessional to my colleagues when I had to cancel because I was relying on you, make sure it doesn't happen again because otherwise I will have to make other childcare arrangements and might not be able to be so flexible around your work if that happens'. Or something, you know your situation.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 08:24 AM
Hi FS
Planned a long response to you whilst eating my breakfast and then thought I'm just going to write what I'd say to you if you were here in this kitchen.
Team FS is broken. You have expected because he's a good Dad, he will still be part of the team. He has expected that he can live a separate life and still be part of the team. That's cake eating.
Now, it should be possible. There are people all over who manage to maintain a healthy team ethos even when separated. The fact that he isn't, gives testament to his character at the moment. FS and the girls can be in the team and I'll dip in and out when I want.
You may have to accept that is the way it's going to be. Yes, it's disrespectful to you, but in his eyes this isn't about you, it's all about what he wants. Perhaps you have thought that the girls gave you the opportunity to stay connected to him? Perhaps he doesn't see it that way. There's no you and him, just him and the girls? When he wants.
Perhaps you need to drop all expectations of him. He's coming up short.
I get the distancing / openness dynamic, but it is leaving you vulnerable to his selfishness.
Perhaps just carry on in a friendly but detached way but drop the expectation that he is going to be an all in team player.
Planned a long response to you whilst eating my breakfast and then thought I'm just going to write what I'd say to you if you were here in this kitchen.
Team FS is broken. You have expected because he's a good Dad, he will still be part of the team. He has expected that he can live a separate life and still be part of the team. That's cake eating.
Now, it should be possible. There are people all over who manage to maintain a healthy team ethos even when separated. The fact that he isn't, gives testament to his character at the moment. FS and the girls can be in the team and I'll dip in and out when I want.
You may have to accept that is the way it's going to be. Yes, it's disrespectful to you, but in his eyes this isn't about you, it's all about what he wants. Perhaps you have thought that the girls gave you the opportunity to stay connected to him? Perhaps he doesn't see it that way. There's no you and him, just him and the girls? When he wants.
Perhaps you need to drop all expectations of him. He's coming up short.
I get the distancing / openness dynamic, but it is leaving you vulnerable to his selfishness.
Perhaps just carry on in a friendly but detached way but drop the expectation that he is going to be an all in team player.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 09:14 AM
We are in a strange situation. He is a pilot - so taking time off really isn't an option. I get this and I know I have to give him some latitude in terms of the childcare. His shift got changed last minute but we could have covered it. He was supposed to stay at the house and take them to school in the morning. What really annoyed me was he didn't even tell me. He just kind of slipped it into conversation and when I asked why he could take them in the morning he said "it is easier for me to get to the airport from the flat" (like he hadn't been commuting to the airport for 6 years from the house). I could have gone later, but would not have reached the office until 3:00. I could have still made day 2, but in a fit of cutting my nose off to spite my face, I cancelled the entire trip. I am a contractor, so not only does it look bad, not going has cost me a fortune.
I cannot say his behavior is "unacceptable". The shift change was not (as far as I know) his fault. All I can do is, as Yorkie says, not rely on him or have any expectations that he will be there for me.
Davide - when I was 'researching' OLDs the chap next to me showed me one of the apps on his phone. Trout pouts and bathroom selfies galore. Also, A LOT of cleavage. I have only registered on Hinge. Tinder seemed too shallow and the traditional ones required whole essays to be written. This seemed a happy middle ground although, as I said, my target market appears to be 22 year olds despite setting my preferences considerably higher than that.
I cannot say his behavior is "unacceptable". The shift change was not (as far as I know) his fault. All I can do is, as Yorkie says, not rely on him or have any expectations that he will be there for me.
Davide - when I was 'researching' OLDs the chap next to me showed me one of the apps on his phone. Trout pouts and bathroom selfies galore. Also, A LOT of cleavage. I have only registered on Hinge. Tinder seemed too shallow and the traditional ones required whole essays to be written. This seemed a happy middle ground although, as I said, my target market appears to be 22 year olds despite setting my preferences considerably higher than that.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/18/19 11:07 AM
So it was about what was convenient for him, really, isn't it?
Why can't you say his behaviour is unacceptable? You can decide - for your own very good reasons - that for the time being you will choose to accept it. But you don't have to accept it. You could get a nanny or arrange some consistent childcare that he would have to fit in with, whether that was convenient to him or not.
Why can't you say his behaviour is unacceptable? You can decide - for your own very good reasons - that for the time being you will choose to accept it. But you don't have to accept it. You could get a nanny or arrange some consistent childcare that he would have to fit in with, whether that was convenient to him or not.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/24/19 12:17 PM
Journalling ...
Nothing much to report on the H front. Limbo. I got the childcare schedule for June the other day and there is a six day block in the middle where he isn't seeing the girls. When I saw this I remembered that he had mentioned back in Jan that he was going to vegas with two mates in June so assumed the block is to cover that. It makes me laugh that he hasn't mentioned it since, but then thought I wouldn't notice that he wasn't seeing the girls for six days. I am not upset about it (maybe because I know it is with mates who I know/knew and got along with) but shows that he still thinks he has to 'keep things from me' even when the thing is as harmless as going for a longish weekend with friends. I guess that says more about him than me.
D12 is doing on with the counselling. Whilst I can't say she looks forward to it, there is no anxiety surrounding it anymore. She seems to be a little more relaxed generally, so I think it's been good for her to have someone external to talk to. We do not know what is being said in these sessions but as long as it is helping her, then we don't need to know. D9 is ok too but it is D9 who tends to ask the awkward questions ..
D9: Why can't daddy have a key to the house. He can't come and walk [our dog]
Me: He can come whenever he wants. He just needs to let mummy know and I won't lock the bottom lock (he has a key to the top one)
D9: But he should be able to get into the house.
Me: Well, Daddy doesn't live here anymore. Mummy, D12 and you live here and daddy is a guest. Daddy can't just come and go as he pleases because it's not fair on mummy. Mummy doesn't have a key to daddy's flat.
D9: But you don't pay for the flat.
Me: Daddy doesn't pay for the house (this is true, but I didn't really want to say it).
Anyway, it was an uncomfortable conversation. I have always avoided talking about the finances with the kids.
I have arranged to meet someone off the OLD site. We are going climbing next week. I am not sure how long I will stay on the site. I seem to get a lot of men in their 20's wanting to strike up conversations (these get discounted pretty quick) and those few conversations I've had seem a little 'false'. It is the opposite of here ... here you bare your soul. There everything is curated to be as light and 'fun' as possible. Example: "how was your weekend?", "good thanks - chilled out mostly. You?". It doesn't feel real. I will stick with it for a month and see how it goes.
Nothing much to report on the H front. Limbo. I got the childcare schedule for June the other day and there is a six day block in the middle where he isn't seeing the girls. When I saw this I remembered that he had mentioned back in Jan that he was going to vegas with two mates in June so assumed the block is to cover that. It makes me laugh that he hasn't mentioned it since, but then thought I wouldn't notice that he wasn't seeing the girls for six days. I am not upset about it (maybe because I know it is with mates who I know/knew and got along with) but shows that he still thinks he has to 'keep things from me' even when the thing is as harmless as going for a longish weekend with friends. I guess that says more about him than me.
D12 is doing on with the counselling. Whilst I can't say she looks forward to it, there is no anxiety surrounding it anymore. She seems to be a little more relaxed generally, so I think it's been good for her to have someone external to talk to. We do not know what is being said in these sessions but as long as it is helping her, then we don't need to know. D9 is ok too but it is D9 who tends to ask the awkward questions ..
D9: Why can't daddy have a key to the house. He can't come and walk [our dog]
Me: He can come whenever he wants. He just needs to let mummy know and I won't lock the bottom lock (he has a key to the top one)
D9: But he should be able to get into the house.
Me: Well, Daddy doesn't live here anymore. Mummy, D12 and you live here and daddy is a guest. Daddy can't just come and go as he pleases because it's not fair on mummy. Mummy doesn't have a key to daddy's flat.
D9: But you don't pay for the flat.
Me: Daddy doesn't pay for the house (this is true, but I didn't really want to say it).
Anyway, it was an uncomfortable conversation. I have always avoided talking about the finances with the kids.
I have arranged to meet someone off the OLD site. We are going climbing next week. I am not sure how long I will stay on the site. I seem to get a lot of men in their 20's wanting to strike up conversations (these get discounted pretty quick) and those few conversations I've had seem a little 'false'. It is the opposite of here ... here you bare your soul. There everything is curated to be as light and 'fun' as possible. Example: "how was your weekend?", "good thanks - chilled out mostly. You?". It doesn't feel real. I will stick with it for a month and see how it goes.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/24/19 05:12 PM
Hey FS. Sorry for taking so long to reply. I just now saw your post about OLD. I am glad you are dipping your toe into the pool to see what is out there. I promise there are some normal people on there...you just may have to meet a few "abnormal" ones first. I have found that certain sites have different reputations for who uses them. Tinder, for instance, seems to be more of a "hook up" site...even if you are clear that's not what you are on there for. Not sure what is popular in the UK but I ended up meeting most people from Plenty of Fish. All of the guys I've met have been nice but it is definitely hard to find someone you "click" with. Still...I enjoyed the dates and it was better than sitting at home alone on the weekends my XH had the kids. I am definitely enjoying myself more now that I've found someone I do click with. If only he were a bit older... still have not resolved that issue in my head yet. Just going with the flow for now. Anyway...don't give up too quickly. Hope you have a great hike this weekend! (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/24/19 05:16 PM
Also...I wouldn't shy away from the sites that require more of an effort to fill out information on yourself. PofF was kind of middle ground that way as you don't HAVE to fill out a lot if you don't want to. However, I did find that the people who took the time to say something about themselves and what they were looking for seemed to take the process more seriously and were more "normal".
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/25/19 07:12 AM
Thanks DV
I have only joined Hinge. I didn't want random hook ups (thus no tinder) and, (apologies if this is unkind to anyone here), the others seemed to be for people who really really wanted a relationship. I am going with the flow and seeing what happens. If there is one thing I have learned on this forum, is to live life without expectations. I am not going hiking. We are going rock climbing. I think it is the Davide influence
Oh, and he is in his 20's. He did ask why I went for someone younger and I told him because I liked his answers, they had both a depth and sense of fun to them. His pictures showed he led an active, healthy life style (no naked upper body shots) and he was into yoga, meditation and climbing. So, we will see. No expectations.
I have engaged in conversations with a couple of men. They seem OK. Still, it all seems very false. Like being stuck in a room with someone you don't know and being forced to make small talk.
I have only joined Hinge. I didn't want random hook ups (thus no tinder) and, (apologies if this is unkind to anyone here), the others seemed to be for people who really really wanted a relationship. I am going with the flow and seeing what happens. If there is one thing I have learned on this forum, is to live life without expectations. I am not going hiking. We are going rock climbing. I think it is the Davide influence
Oh, and he is in his 20's. He did ask why I went for someone younger and I told him because I liked his answers, they had both a depth and sense of fun to them. His pictures showed he led an active, healthy life style (no naked upper body shots) and he was into yoga, meditation and climbing. So, we will see. No expectations.
I have engaged in conversations with a couple of men. They seem OK. Still, it all seems very false. Like being stuck in a room with someone you don't know and being forced to make small talk.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/25/19 07:56 AM
Isn't it the online equivalent of being stuck in a room and having small talk though? I hope the date goes well, I'm curious about why you're choosing to date now, testing the waters? It seems like things have stalled with your H...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/25/19 11:00 AM
Stalled is just another way of saying limbo.
But whilst it feels like limbo, I am coming to the realisation that I am not in limbo. What is happening is an excruciatingly slow peeling away of the plaster (that's band-aid for you Americans) that is our marriage. It's just that the plaster is coming off so slowly that you don't see it happening. Like those human statues you see in Covent Garden painted in gold or silver or bronze. They move so slightly that over the course of the day they will have turned 360 degrees. To the bystander, these statues are in a constant state of stillness. But the stillness is not still. It moves. Some movements are more obvious than others, moving out, my changing the lock, or us taking separate family holidays, whilst others, are so subtle that only he and I will have noticed (I referred in a text to his flat as 'yours' and the house as 'mine' as in, "I can either take D9 back to mine or drop her by yours").
I spoke to a friend about this the other day. He feels that there is still hope for us. But that there are great big trust issues on both sides, and a shed load of guilt on his. He also thinks that I am at a cross roads. Looking at two paths and trying to decide which is best for me. By not being transparent with him about the dating, I am hoping to keep both paths alive until I know what is going on. By keeping things from me my H is doing the same (I suspect this is another way of saying cake eating). But it is interesting that it was framed in such a way that I came across as cake eating too.
He feels it is time to have the R talk. There are too many things unsaid, too many assumptions and too much distrust. Neither of us can make a decision because we do not know what the facts are. He things my H assumes I have moved on. I assume my H has moved on.
I do not know. I will need to think about it some more.
But whilst it feels like limbo, I am coming to the realisation that I am not in limbo. What is happening is an excruciatingly slow peeling away of the plaster (that's band-aid for you Americans) that is our marriage. It's just that the plaster is coming off so slowly that you don't see it happening. Like those human statues you see in Covent Garden painted in gold or silver or bronze. They move so slightly that over the course of the day they will have turned 360 degrees. To the bystander, these statues are in a constant state of stillness. But the stillness is not still. It moves. Some movements are more obvious than others, moving out, my changing the lock, or us taking separate family holidays, whilst others, are so subtle that only he and I will have noticed (I referred in a text to his flat as 'yours' and the house as 'mine' as in, "I can either take D9 back to mine or drop her by yours").
I spoke to a friend about this the other day. He feels that there is still hope for us. But that there are great big trust issues on both sides, and a shed load of guilt on his. He also thinks that I am at a cross roads. Looking at two paths and trying to decide which is best for me. By not being transparent with him about the dating, I am hoping to keep both paths alive until I know what is going on. By keeping things from me my H is doing the same (I suspect this is another way of saying cake eating). But it is interesting that it was framed in such a way that I came across as cake eating too.
He feels it is time to have the R talk. There are too many things unsaid, too many assumptions and too much distrust. Neither of us can make a decision because we do not know what the facts are. He things my H assumes I have moved on. I assume my H has moved on.
I do not know. I will need to think about it some more.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/25/19 12:29 PM
I'm not sure it is time to have the R talk, but I agree that you're at a cross roads. You sound like you'd be open to reconciliation, but also ok with D.
What would you have to lose if you asked your H out on a date? I can't remember yet if this is something you've done before, but it seems like it's been so long since you separated and so much has happened that you need to get to know each other again. Worst case scenario: he says no, says he's moved on and says he wants D (worst case as in you would be rejected, not that D is something you seem desperate to avoid now). Best case: you both take it slow, see if you actually like each other now, and perhaps have something to build on, even if it's just a better R to parent your kids together and D like mature adults.
What would you have to lose if you asked your H out on a date? I can't remember yet if this is something you've done before, but it seems like it's been so long since you separated and so much has happened that you need to get to know each other again. Worst case scenario: he says no, says he's moved on and says he wants D (worst case as in you would be rejected, not that D is something you seem desperate to avoid now). Best case: you both take it slow, see if you actually like each other now, and perhaps have something to build on, even if it's just a better R to parent your kids together and D like mature adults.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/26/19 01:57 AM
FS, the plaster comparison is so descriptive. I think I've seen what you are referring to in your writings. You have each taken steps back and put up walls throughout this process to protect yourselves after the dust started to settle post BD. Simultaneously, at times you have each been kinder to one another in a nod to the difficulties you're experiencing. But to take a step forward it seems (from the outside) that neither of you are ready, or wanting that at this time.
If I had to guess purely as an outsider I would guess this is because you have each been hurt and you are not sure if you can move past the hurt without the other making the first move towards apologies. Right now I'm not sure I see either of you doing that. In your mind and where you are at - would this fall to him? Without him making this move/apology do you see yourself walking away?
I ask with no ulterior motive of course, and I don't know that I can say what is best. Just trying to feel you out to see where you are.
Sometimes I wonder if the "complete break" (D, moving, or whatever) is needed for a couple so that the WAS can feel they are making a fresh start with the LBS - not an apology. To potentially come back together after being definitively DONE is a different conversation and experience than to come back with a more 'active" guilt in a murky situation. I'm not sure I am explaining my thoughts clearly, but it is something I'm ruminating on. You and H see each other too much to step out of the murky, though I agree it is out of necessity for the girls.
Once again, I must say how beautifully I feel you two are coparenting.
I spoke to a friend about this the other day. He feels that there is still hope for us. But that there are great big trust issues on both sides, and a shed load of guilt on his. He also thinks that I am at a cross roads. Looking at two paths and trying to decide which is best for me. By not being transparent with him about the dating, I am hoping to keep both paths alive until I know what is going on. By keeping things from me my H is doing the same (I suspect this is another way of saying cake eating). But it is interesting that it was framed in such a way that I came across as cake eating too.
He feels it is time to have the R talk. There are too many things unsaid, too many assumptions and too much distrust. Neither of us can make a decision because we do not know what the facts are. He things my H assumes I have moved on. I assume my H has moved on.
I do not know. I will need to think about it some more.
I don't disagree with your friend necessarily, but I agree with you that you need more time to consider this.
If I had to guess purely as an outsider I would guess this is because you have each been hurt and you are not sure if you can move past the hurt without the other making the first move towards apologies. Right now I'm not sure I see either of you doing that. In your mind and where you are at - would this fall to him? Without him making this move/apology do you see yourself walking away?
I ask with no ulterior motive of course, and I don't know that I can say what is best. Just trying to feel you out to see where you are.
Sometimes I wonder if the "complete break" (D, moving, or whatever) is needed for a couple so that the WAS can feel they are making a fresh start with the LBS - not an apology. To potentially come back together after being definitively DONE is a different conversation and experience than to come back with a more 'active" guilt in a murky situation. I'm not sure I am explaining my thoughts clearly, but it is something I'm ruminating on. You and H see each other too much to step out of the murky, though I agree it is out of necessity for the girls.
Once again, I must say how beautifully I feel you two are coparenting.
Originally Posted by FlySolo
I spoke to a friend about this the other day. He feels that there is still hope for us. But that there are great big trust issues on both sides, and a shed load of guilt on his. He also thinks that I am at a cross roads. Looking at two paths and trying to decide which is best for me. By not being transparent with him about the dating, I am hoping to keep both paths alive until I know what is going on. By keeping things from me my H is doing the same (I suspect this is another way of saying cake eating). But it is interesting that it was framed in such a way that I came across as cake eating too.
He feels it is time to have the R talk. There are too many things unsaid, too many assumptions and too much distrust. Neither of us can make a decision because we do not know what the facts are. He things my H assumes I have moved on. I assume my H has moved on.
I do not know. I will need to think about it some more.
I don't disagree with your friend necessarily, but I agree with you that you need more time to consider this.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/26/19 12:57 PM
Hi FS
that analogy with the plaster is spot on. And it is painful, too, to watch something slowly die - or to supervise the slow killing of an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes I wonder if ripping the plaster off is best. That isn't the road I am taking and I know just what you mean about those slow and tiny steps, the gradual unknitting of a life together. It would be so difficult to take a step forward and see if he wants to come together with you again, when the unpeeling has been so painstaking and has hurt so much.
Would it be possible for you to ask him for a not-date date? When H and I tried dating, early on in our separation, it was a total disaster. I got needy and upset and expected to be romanced and wooed, and he, I think, dreaded a gaunt, dark-eyed, tearful woman sitting across from him who he had to entertain and make happy. Not suggesting it's like that with you - you're much more even and calm than I was when we tried dating - put the pressure of the trappings of 'romance' can make people feel upset about not feeling things they think they are supposed to. What has been nice, very rarely, is when H and I have had a cup of coffee together sitting in our garden, and more recently, had a small walk with the dog. It was very low-key. Is there something like that you could ask for?
I would keep on with the dating. You have no obligation to tell your H about it unless you want to. If you do have an R talk and it seems you're going to date or explore what might come next, then you can have a conversation about being exclusive then - when the time is right.
that analogy with the plaster is spot on. And it is painful, too, to watch something slowly die - or to supervise the slow killing of an unhealthy relationship. Sometimes I wonder if ripping the plaster off is best. That isn't the road I am taking and I know just what you mean about those slow and tiny steps, the gradual unknitting of a life together. It would be so difficult to take a step forward and see if he wants to come together with you again, when the unpeeling has been so painstaking and has hurt so much.
Would it be possible for you to ask him for a not-date date? When H and I tried dating, early on in our separation, it was a total disaster. I got needy and upset and expected to be romanced and wooed, and he, I think, dreaded a gaunt, dark-eyed, tearful woman sitting across from him who he had to entertain and make happy. Not suggesting it's like that with you - you're much more even and calm than I was when we tried dating - put the pressure of the trappings of 'romance' can make people feel upset about not feeling things they think they are supposed to. What has been nice, very rarely, is when H and I have had a cup of coffee together sitting in our garden, and more recently, had a small walk with the dog. It was very low-key. Is there something like that you could ask for?
I would keep on with the dating. You have no obligation to tell your H about it unless you want to. If you do have an R talk and it seems you're going to date or explore what might come next, then you can have a conversation about being exclusive then - when the time is right.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/29/19 12:49 AM
FS, so much of what you say rings so true to me, and I see many parallels in our situations. So much limbo for so long. I have noticed a real numbness to my feelings as well, and have thought often about what you described as the slow, peeling off of the bandaid (I like the term plaster much better , ha!) Sometimes I find myself looking to your situation almost as a window into my own; I can see through yours so much more clearly than my own. I'm thinking more and more that my H may literally just be purely cake eating, plain and simple. It makes me pretty angry when I think of it that way...
I am really impressed that you are entering (however gingerly) the dating world. I will really look forward to hearing how that goes. I've finally moved into the place of feeling that if someone interesting were to ask me out in an organic way (HA) that I would do it, but I can't face the world of online dating at this point. I'm looking forward to your reports!
I am really impressed that you are entering (however gingerly) the dating world. I will really look forward to hearing how that goes. I've finally moved into the place of feeling that if someone interesting were to ask me out in an organic way (HA) that I would do it, but I can't face the world of online dating at this point. I'm looking forward to your reports!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/30/19 01:46 PM
Dilly/Alison - I cannot ask my H on a date. I think I am afraid that it would lead to an R conversation and every R conversation we have had (and granted they are few and far between) has ended up forcing us into corners. He comes out more determined to remain apart and I come out hurt and angry. Whilst he is unsure, I think the best thing I can do is just give him the space to work it out. I have to balance that with the plaster/bandaid analogy where things are moving at a microscopic pace, but still moving. Sometimes it feels like it is moving towards R and sometime it doesn't. I just have to let it be and see where that path takes me.
Yail - Yes, it would fall to him. I cannot do it. If I do and he is not ready, it will just push him further away. I know there are whispers of doubts playing around in his head. They have always been there. I just don't know if they are fading or getting louder. Time will tell.
Hope - It is always easier to see things objectively from the outside. If reading my sitch helps you to see yours more clearly, then for that reason alone, I am glad that, despite the fact that my entries seem to be very 'samish' (that's limbo for you, not a lot happening but there is plenty of sub-texts), that I journal.
Yail - Yes, it would fall to him. I cannot do it. If I do and he is not ready, it will just push him further away. I know there are whispers of doubts playing around in his head. They have always been there. I just don't know if they are fading or getting louder. Time will tell.
Hope - It is always easier to see things objectively from the outside. If reading my sitch helps you to see yours more clearly, then for that reason alone, I am glad that, despite the fact that my entries seem to be very 'samish' (that's limbo for you, not a lot happening but there is plenty of sub-texts), that I journal.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/30/19 02:09 PM
Journalling
I went on my first Hinge date, possibly even my first ever 'date'. I have never actually dated before - BF's were always friends who somehow became BFs. It was good. We went bouldering. I have the upper body strength and core control but lack the reach. I enjoyed it though. It was good physical activity and it gave the date some focus. He was really nice. We exchanged texts before hand and I said I was a little nervous as it was my first hinge date and he said that I should reframe it to be "we are just two people going climbing and I am teaching you". He is in his mid 20's (not that its a competition DV) but I found him to be intelligent, funny and, this might be the mid 20's thing, really attractive.
We did end up spending the night together. Unplanned and very unexpected. In the morning he said that he was confused and needed to think. He had not expected we would get on so well, and "everything about you is perfect but then there is the age thing". Apparently it would have all been fine if he wasn't so in to me. I told him it was a first date and not to overthink things. He is going to Thailand with friends on Friday so I told him if he wanted to contact me when he got back then that would be great. If he thought it might get a little too complicated (and was scared of that) then that was fine too.
I took my rings off before the date and then put them back on when I got back today. Which kind of makes it feel affair like. I know it's not. But it still feels that way.
I have engaged in conversations with a couple of other people. No-one that has really struck me as someone I'd like to meet. I still find it strange doing the small talk thing.
On the H front, we are back to "getting along". It is half term this week so the kids are home. My H has them every day during the week and a couple of overnights. I have enough friends going through the same thing to know that I am lucky to have a H that cares about his kids so much and told him that I am glad we don't argue like other parents. He thinks it is because "we don't have money problems". I think it is because we are reasonable people willing to put our children above our own disputes.
I forgot to mention that last weekend my H took the kids glamping (or glamorous camping). I had known for some time but found out on the actual day that his mum, stepdad, brother and niece were also going. This to me kind of showed the separation of our families. There is my H, our kids and his family all going camping together, and then there is me and the girls. I know that my didn't mean it to feel like that and he was doing it for the girls, but it felt like that to me. I sucked it up and wished them all a really nice camping weekend. Then I went upstairs to my room and cried a little.
When they got back, my H said that BIL's exGF was upset that BIL took their daughter camping. Apparently she stormed upstairs and threw a suitcase down the stairs at him. H was appalled saying "it's because she doesn't want them to have a nice time without her". I tried to make him understand that it wasn't because of that. It was because she was feeling excluded and it [censored] feeling that way. I don't agree with her having a tantrum in front of their daughter, but I do know that it was coming from a place of hurt. He looked at me strangely and then turned away.
He was cooking dinner at the time (unheard of before MO) and he even put out a plate for me. He then washed up after whilst I dried. It was very "family" like. Crumbs maybe. But I think it was good for the children to see and it is better than fraught and toxic. He also caught himself referring to me as his wife. He went to introduce me to someone, "This is my ... FS". Not reading anything into it - just thought it was funny.
I went on my first Hinge date, possibly even my first ever 'date'. I have never actually dated before - BF's were always friends who somehow became BFs. It was good. We went bouldering. I have the upper body strength and core control but lack the reach. I enjoyed it though. It was good physical activity and it gave the date some focus. He was really nice. We exchanged texts before hand and I said I was a little nervous as it was my first hinge date and he said that I should reframe it to be "we are just two people going climbing and I am teaching you". He is in his mid 20's (not that its a competition DV) but I found him to be intelligent, funny and, this might be the mid 20's thing, really attractive.
We did end up spending the night together. Unplanned and very unexpected. In the morning he said that he was confused and needed to think. He had not expected we would get on so well, and "everything about you is perfect but then there is the age thing". Apparently it would have all been fine if he wasn't so in to me. I told him it was a first date and not to overthink things. He is going to Thailand with friends on Friday so I told him if he wanted to contact me when he got back then that would be great. If he thought it might get a little too complicated (and was scared of that) then that was fine too.
I took my rings off before the date and then put them back on when I got back today. Which kind of makes it feel affair like. I know it's not. But it still feels that way.
I have engaged in conversations with a couple of other people. No-one that has really struck me as someone I'd like to meet. I still find it strange doing the small talk thing.
On the H front, we are back to "getting along". It is half term this week so the kids are home. My H has them every day during the week and a couple of overnights. I have enough friends going through the same thing to know that I am lucky to have a H that cares about his kids so much and told him that I am glad we don't argue like other parents. He thinks it is because "we don't have money problems". I think it is because we are reasonable people willing to put our children above our own disputes.
I forgot to mention that last weekend my H took the kids glamping (or glamorous camping). I had known for some time but found out on the actual day that his mum, stepdad, brother and niece were also going. This to me kind of showed the separation of our families. There is my H, our kids and his family all going camping together, and then there is me and the girls. I know that my didn't mean it to feel like that and he was doing it for the girls, but it felt like that to me. I sucked it up and wished them all a really nice camping weekend. Then I went upstairs to my room and cried a little.
When they got back, my H said that BIL's exGF was upset that BIL took their daughter camping. Apparently she stormed upstairs and threw a suitcase down the stairs at him. H was appalled saying "it's because she doesn't want them to have a nice time without her". I tried to make him understand that it wasn't because of that. It was because she was feeling excluded and it [censored] feeling that way. I don't agree with her having a tantrum in front of their daughter, but I do know that it was coming from a place of hurt. He looked at me strangely and then turned away.
He was cooking dinner at the time (unheard of before MO) and he even put out a plate for me. He then washed up after whilst I dried. It was very "family" like. Crumbs maybe. But I think it was good for the children to see and it is better than fraught and toxic. He also caught himself referring to me as his wife. He went to introduce me to someone, "This is my ... FS". Not reading anything into it - just thought it was funny.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 05/31/19 10:31 PM
Gosh FS - that date and what came afterwards feels like a big deal. Perhaps not for you and the man himself - but for you and your attachment, or not, to your H. How are you feeling today?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/01/19 07:55 AM
Yeah, maybe. This isn't a good girl gone wild scenario. My views about sex are the same as my views on most things. If it brings you happiness (no matter how momentary) then as long as you are not hurting someone else, then you should do it. Which I guess is my way of saying I don't get hung up on it but I do believe in monogamy. There was chemistry, he wasn't a meat head, and it felt right.
The thing that doesn't sit right is putting my rings back on when I got home. I still want to R and I want to try and live my life. Cake eating.
I am feeling OK today. Sore - the climbing thing took its toll on my upper body and I still can't get my arms over my head without saying "ouch" in my head.
Mentally, I think I am good. I saw my H on Thursday and Friday (I worked from home and he took the week off so he could help out with the kids). We were friendlier then normal. We talked about the climbing and he laughed at how sore I was. I agreed to take the girls earlier than normal so he could do an overtime flight in the evening and even commented yesterday that the shirt he had on was a nice color on him. He made a big deal of calling the scheduling office and saying he could do the flight (he normally walks out of the room to make/take any phone call). There was no tension at all.
I am taking the kids to see Phantom of the Opera tonight. My H was not happy about it as the football finals are on and he had wanted to watch it with D12. I reminded him that he had put the childcare schedule together and I was only going by that and the tickets were non refundable and expensive (this was about two weeks ago). There has been, over the week, some slight passive aggressiveness about this (even from D12) but I have stuck to my guns. He sets the schedules. I will be flexible where I have not made plans but if I have, then I will not change them. I think that is fair - even where D12 would rather do something else with her dad.
On the dating front, I am convinced that there are very few normal people out there. 80% of the people who try and contact me are in their 20's. They start normal, but then after a few chat exchanges, the weird comes out: I have had one man (who seemed normal) ask me if I would be interested in having a sex slave, another man offer to massage me whilst naked, and then a whole host who cannot carry a conversation beyond "You are really hot. Do you want to meet?". There is one normal guy, single dad who talks about his son a lot. I think he might be worth meeting. There has been some contact from the guy from the other night. Some flirty (but not rude) and some just normal chat you'd have with a friend.
In any case, I am giving it another two weeks then deactivating. I think the effort of filtering through the rubbish is too high.
The thing that doesn't sit right is putting my rings back on when I got home. I still want to R and I want to try and live my life. Cake eating.
I am feeling OK today. Sore - the climbing thing took its toll on my upper body and I still can't get my arms over my head without saying "ouch" in my head.
Mentally, I think I am good. I saw my H on Thursday and Friday (I worked from home and he took the week off so he could help out with the kids). We were friendlier then normal. We talked about the climbing and he laughed at how sore I was. I agreed to take the girls earlier than normal so he could do an overtime flight in the evening and even commented yesterday that the shirt he had on was a nice color on him. He made a big deal of calling the scheduling office and saying he could do the flight (he normally walks out of the room to make/take any phone call). There was no tension at all.
I am taking the kids to see Phantom of the Opera tonight. My H was not happy about it as the football finals are on and he had wanted to watch it with D12. I reminded him that he had put the childcare schedule together and I was only going by that and the tickets were non refundable and expensive (this was about two weeks ago). There has been, over the week, some slight passive aggressiveness about this (even from D12) but I have stuck to my guns. He sets the schedules. I will be flexible where I have not made plans but if I have, then I will not change them. I think that is fair - even where D12 would rather do something else with her dad.
On the dating front, I am convinced that there are very few normal people out there. 80% of the people who try and contact me are in their 20's. They start normal, but then after a few chat exchanges, the weird comes out: I have had one man (who seemed normal) ask me if I would be interested in having a sex slave, another man offer to massage me whilst naked, and then a whole host who cannot carry a conversation beyond "You are really hot. Do you want to meet?". There is one normal guy, single dad who talks about his son a lot. I think he might be worth meeting. There has been some contact from the guy from the other night. Some flirty (but not rude) and some just normal chat you'd have with a friend.
In any case, I am giving it another two weeks then deactivating. I think the effort of filtering through the rubbish is too high.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/01/19 08:25 AM
I don't know if it is cake eating. You're allowed to want a couple of different things at the same time - or perhaps want one thing - an intimate committed relationship - and see a couple of different paths to get there. It would be different if you were in a sexual relationship with more than one person and they didn't know about each other, or even if you were in MC and actively working on things with your H - but it looks like in your situation you have a good amicable co-parenting relationship and there are no immediate plans to reconcile. So you can be open to a conversation about that in the future without living as a married woman in the meantime, right?
I think you're right to set boundaries about your time. Laying aside not being a doormat to your H, it is important for your daughters to know that plans made are important, and you can't ditch someone when you get a better offer, and it isn't okay to play one parent off against each other, and that passive aggressive communication isn't acceptable. You can't teach your H these things, but you are allowed to teach your daughter.
I think you're right to set boundaries about your time. Laying aside not being a doormat to your H, it is important for your daughters to know that plans made are important, and you can't ditch someone when you get a better offer, and it isn't okay to play one parent off against each other, and that passive aggressive communication isn't acceptable. You can't teach your H these things, but you are allowed to teach your daughter.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/01/19 10:48 AM
Ooh I must have missed your big date! I can just imagine you sighing and rolling your eyes at yet another man saying he's confused about his feelings about you, that's not really what you need is it?!
You're not cake eating, you're staying open to the idea of R but also exploring other possibilities. It wasn't you who chose to leave after all. It's weird that so many men in their 20s are into you, what's that all about?! I can see the attraction from your point of view though, I don't think I'd turn down a nice looking 20 or 30 something right about now...
You're not cake eating, you're staying open to the idea of R but also exploring other possibilities. It wasn't you who chose to leave after all. It's weird that so many men in their 20s are into you, what's that all about?! I can see the attraction from your point of view though, I don't think I'd turn down a nice looking 20 or 30 something right about now...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/01/19 01:11 PM
Originally Posted by dillydaf
It's weird that so many men in their 20s are into you, what's that all about?!
I think it's very clear that our FS is a catch!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/02/19 09:46 PM
I don't really know what it's about. There is nothing on my profile suggests I am into younger men or into random hook ups. There are a couple of face shots, a pic from skiing and a pic out to dinner with friends. It shows my age and that I have children. All pics are fully clothed with no cleavage in site. My answers are light hearted, for example "the key to my heart is: making me laugh".
I decided not to approach anyone - just wait for what comes through. However as I only seem to get men in their 20's, a few in their 30's and then men in their 60's It seems that men in my age range are not interested in women in their age range. I have started chatting with a guy in his late 30's who seems normal - the one with a son. We are meeting for drinks on Tuesday but will both be heading our separate ways after as we both have the children that night.
I did agree to meet the one who wants to give me a bum massage (before he mentioned the bum massage). He initially seemed normal and suggested we meet on Friday for meal and I said I already had plans. He then text me pretty much all night asking if I was done yet, that he was only 10 mins away in an uber, that he could come get me if I that was easier and finally, the offer of the naked massage. I said tempting, but unlikely as I was out with girlfriends and it was going to be a long night. He then asked if he could call me when I got in to chat. Pity because he is really nice looking and has a job that sounds like he might have some brains.
On the H front I saw him briefly saturday as he asked if he could come have lunch with the girls and I. I haven't seen him since and probably won't now until he gets back from his boys holiday in vegas next week. He does have the girls tomorrow and tuesday night and is then dropping them at school before he heads off for his holiday. His mum didn't even know he was going away. That is how secretive he is.
After lunch the girls and I headed into London to watch a show. We took the train in with a girlfriend and her daughter (who were going to the musuem) and spent a pleasant train ride with them and then stopped at a cafe for a bit. It was nice. It was a long day (we watched the evening showing) and it was after midnight before we got home. D12 was most amused at the people on the train coming home. All slightly (but pleasantly) tipsy from watching the football finals. She giggled a lot to herself on the train listening to their conversations.
Today we went to MIL's house. D12 wanted to see her so I rang this morning. H wasn't there as he is 'away' (i.e. working or out). It was pleasant enough. We chatted about holidays etc and I have set up a whatsapp group for his mum, H and I so that we can co-ordinate days out for his mum and the girls - she said she didn't know who to call when she wanted to see the girls.
All in all a nice weekend I think.
I decided not to approach anyone - just wait for what comes through. However as I only seem to get men in their 20's, a few in their 30's and then men in their 60's It seems that men in my age range are not interested in women in their age range. I have started chatting with a guy in his late 30's who seems normal - the one with a son. We are meeting for drinks on Tuesday but will both be heading our separate ways after as we both have the children that night.
I did agree to meet the one who wants to give me a bum massage (before he mentioned the bum massage). He initially seemed normal and suggested we meet on Friday for meal and I said I already had plans. He then text me pretty much all night asking if I was done yet, that he was only 10 mins away in an uber, that he could come get me if I that was easier and finally, the offer of the naked massage. I said tempting, but unlikely as I was out with girlfriends and it was going to be a long night. He then asked if he could call me when I got in to chat. Pity because he is really nice looking and has a job that sounds like he might have some brains.
On the H front I saw him briefly saturday as he asked if he could come have lunch with the girls and I. I haven't seen him since and probably won't now until he gets back from his boys holiday in vegas next week. He does have the girls tomorrow and tuesday night and is then dropping them at school before he heads off for his holiday. His mum didn't even know he was going away. That is how secretive he is.
After lunch the girls and I headed into London to watch a show. We took the train in with a girlfriend and her daughter (who were going to the musuem) and spent a pleasant train ride with them and then stopped at a cafe for a bit. It was nice. It was a long day (we watched the evening showing) and it was after midnight before we got home. D12 was most amused at the people on the train coming home. All slightly (but pleasantly) tipsy from watching the football finals. She giggled a lot to herself on the train listening to their conversations.
Today we went to MIL's house. D12 wanted to see her so I rang this morning. H wasn't there as he is 'away' (i.e. working or out). It was pleasant enough. We chatted about holidays etc and I have set up a whatsapp group for his mum, H and I so that we can co-ordinate days out for his mum and the girls - she said she didn't know who to call when she wanted to see the girls.
All in all a nice weekend I think.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/02/19 10:54 PM
I love how you are working it out with your MIL. That is precious and something your children are blessed to have.
My MIL called me last week and told me that she saw this coming (she always says stuff like that) and that I don't deserve any of this and she couldn't get involved (oh that she wouldn't) H was so secretive she just now knows that we are having any issues (after 2 years lol). I never really warmed up to her so I consider that a 'win' on the column if this D goes through! Not bitter, just looking at the bright side! She has always wanted me to confide in her, but I've never felt close to her. (she was horrible to my H growing up and as an adult, she trashes him quite frequently.) Not a healthy relationship for me at any rate. I'll be fine with her being grandmother, but not friend. Make sense?
I'm a little jealous of your night out. We moved into a very small town 3-4 years ago and it was perfect for us then, but me out here by myself is probably not the best for me. It's hard to not worry over the future while at the same time not knowing where I want to live. I have no idea!
My MIL called me last week and told me that she saw this coming (she always says stuff like that) and that I don't deserve any of this and she couldn't get involved (oh that she wouldn't) H was so secretive she just now knows that we are having any issues (after 2 years lol). I never really warmed up to her so I consider that a 'win' on the column if this D goes through! Not bitter, just looking at the bright side! She has always wanted me to confide in her, but I've never felt close to her. (she was horrible to my H growing up and as an adult, she trashes him quite frequently.) Not a healthy relationship for me at any rate. I'll be fine with her being grandmother, but not friend. Make sense?
I'm a little jealous of your night out. We moved into a very small town 3-4 years ago and it was perfect for us then, but me out here by myself is probably not the best for me. It's hard to not worry over the future while at the same time not knowing where I want to live. I have no idea!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/03/19 07:01 AM
Bum massage man, ewwwwww! He might have some brains but he was definitely thinking with some other part of his anatomy there
That's nice about your MIL. Mine is a poisonous cow who my kids don't want to see, I don't want to see, and my H doesn't want to see. That's what happens to you when you abandon your family and are a selfish narcissist all your life.
Good luck with 30 something man!
That's nice about your MIL. Mine is a poisonous cow who my kids don't want to see, I don't want to see, and my H doesn't want to see. That's what happens to you when you abandon your family and are a selfish narcissist all your life.
Good luck with 30 something man!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/03/19 07:35 AM
I want to hear all these funny stories from your OLD adventures, FS. A friend of mine is really putting on the pressure for me to join Hinge or something like that, and get out on a low commitment fun sort of date. I miss sex, but I don't feel ready in myself - I think I'm just as likely to burst into tears over a meal or turn into some weird bunny boiler as I am to have a nice, low pressure night out with a new friend. But I love hearing about your adventures.
Bum massage man - ugh! I mean, the technique must work for him sometime otherwise he wouldn't do it, but I cannot imagine any woman finding that enticing. I have a single friend who uses Tinder to arrange hookups for no-strings sex now and again. She's perfectly content with what she does, open with her partners, taking care of her health, etc. It isn't for me, I don't think, but fair play to her. And I know 100% that she would be entirely put off by an approach like that. She likes a man to make her laugh, and to be direct about what he wants without being crude. Bum massage!
Bum massage man - ugh! I mean, the technique must work for him sometime otherwise he wouldn't do it, but I cannot imagine any woman finding that enticing. I have a single friend who uses Tinder to arrange hookups for no-strings sex now and again. She's perfectly content with what she does, open with her partners, taking care of her health, etc. It isn't for me, I don't think, but fair play to her. And I know 100% that she would be entirely put off by an approach like that. She likes a man to make her laugh, and to be direct about what he wants without being crude. Bum massage!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/03/19 10:50 AM
The adventures are all on chat. They start normal and then after a few exchanges the weird comes out. A part of me thinks i should string them along just for the hillarity factor, but then i realise that i am wasting their time and setting expectations i cant meet. So, as politely as i can manage it, I say, Im not sure im the girl for you but good luck.
The 25 year old has been texting from his holiday. Its weird. My H, who has been on holidays multiple since he moved out barely contacts but someone ive spent less than 24 hours with checks in every day.
The 25 year old has been texting from his holiday. Its weird. My H, who has been on holidays multiple since he moved out barely contacts but someone ive spent less than 24 hours with checks in every day.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/03/19 03:22 PM
FS: does the 25 year old know you're still married?
Human beings are truly odd, the new and novel is attractive and the old and mundane not so much. I suspect you're not really going to stay with a 25 year old for long though are you? Far too many landmines there!
Human beings are truly odd, the new and novel is attractive and the old and mundane not so much. I suspect you're not really going to stay with a 25 year old for long though are you? Far too many landmines there!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/04/19 07:10 PM
Dilly - He asked if I was divorced and I told him no. We are waiting for the 2 years separated so we can go no fault (I don't actually know if this is true though)
So adventures ... (and this is for Alison)
Date no. 2 yesterday. Drink after work. Conversation was like pulling teeth and halfway through the second drink I was wondering if it would be rude to say "I have to go, early start tomorrow". He seemed so nice on chat. Funny, smart, cute. Turned out he couldn't hold a conversation and, though he had a nice enough face, was heroin chick skinny. When I asked what sort of things he was into he replied "I don't really do very much". So, whilst trying to work out how to escape, he says "you have a beautiful @rse" and then "I'd really like to lick it". Queue me going, thanks, I really have to go now.
Date no 3 tonight. Single dad, late 30's. Lovely but no chemistry (not that there was chemistry with date no 2, the @rse licker). We are going out again next week so will see if there are any sparks on the second date.
Date no 4 later tonight - he enticed me with "let's get a bottle of wine and make some bad decisions". This kind of appealed to me on a poetic level, but thinking of it now, and some of the 'offers' i've gotten, I suspect there may have been some hidden innuendo and am rethinking it all.
The 25 year old continues to text me every day. I still think it's a bit weird, but it is nice to have someone who checks in and wants to tell me what's happening with him. They aren't particularly 'sexual' texts, more "visited temple today" and then some photos, followed by "can't wait to see you", or "was thinking of you when I took this photo", followed by a pic of a beautiful sunset.
Absolutely not viable in the long term, but still nice that someone is thinking of me whilst looking at a beautiful sunset.
So adventures ... (and this is for Alison)
Date no. 2 yesterday. Drink after work. Conversation was like pulling teeth and halfway through the second drink I was wondering if it would be rude to say "I have to go, early start tomorrow". He seemed so nice on chat. Funny, smart, cute. Turned out he couldn't hold a conversation and, though he had a nice enough face, was heroin chick skinny. When I asked what sort of things he was into he replied "I don't really do very much". So, whilst trying to work out how to escape, he says "you have a beautiful @rse" and then "I'd really like to lick it". Queue me going, thanks, I really have to go now.
Date no 3 tonight. Single dad, late 30's. Lovely but no chemistry (not that there was chemistry with date no 2, the @rse licker). We are going out again next week so will see if there are any sparks on the second date.
Date no 4 later tonight - he enticed me with "let's get a bottle of wine and make some bad decisions". This kind of appealed to me on a poetic level, but thinking of it now, and some of the 'offers' i've gotten, I suspect there may have been some hidden innuendo and am rethinking it all.
The 25 year old continues to text me every day. I still think it's a bit weird, but it is nice to have someone who checks in and wants to tell me what's happening with him. They aren't particularly 'sexual' texts, more "visited temple today" and then some photos, followed by "can't wait to see you", or "was thinking of you when I took this photo", followed by a pic of a beautiful sunset.
Absolutely not viable in the long term, but still nice that someone is thinking of me whilst looking at a beautiful sunset.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/04/19 07:16 PM
Arse licking?
GOOD GRIEF.
Please keep me updated. I might end up OLD myself one of these days and I need all the tips and experience you can share. They all sound like nutters. I haven't been on a date since I was 23 and it seemed a bit easier then. I don't drink at all and I imagine that's going to be a bit of a barrier to jumping into bed with someone for a bit of no-strings fun...
Two dates in one night? You're amazing.
GOOD GRIEF.
Please keep me updated. I might end up OLD myself one of these days and I need all the tips and experience you can share. They all sound like nutters. I haven't been on a date since I was 23 and it seemed a bit easier then. I don't drink at all and I imagine that's going to be a bit of a barrier to jumping into bed with someone for a bit of no-strings fun...
Two dates in one night? You're amazing.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/04/19 07:47 PM
I know. It's hilarious. Maybe I'm just old fashioned and people are a bit more 'blunt' these days ...
I will say that the experience has been very good for my self esteem. Yes, some of them are "you are really hot" and I know deep down that they are playing the numbers game, but it is nice to hear anyway. Even the guy I saw earlier tonight who has been nothing but respectful sent a text after saying he had a really nice night, couldn't wait until next week and that it was refreshing to meet someone who was both attractive and intelligent. It makes a change from H who would rather choke then pay me a compliment and before he left said I was too skinny, too muscly and that I should really do something about the stretch marks (I've had two kids you [censored]hole).
I am glad that I waited so long to put myself out there. One thing I know is that I am not doing this because I am lonely. I have been alone long enough to know I am comfortable in my own space and that being with people, whether it be friends or a relationship is a choice and not born out of loneliness. I have the kids from tomorrow for a week and I will love spending time with them. Then next week I am seeing the 25 year old one night and the single dad another. I am also going out with friends one of the nights, and going to the gym when I can.
Life is full and it is good.
I will say that the experience has been very good for my self esteem. Yes, some of them are "you are really hot" and I know deep down that they are playing the numbers game, but it is nice to hear anyway. Even the guy I saw earlier tonight who has been nothing but respectful sent a text after saying he had a really nice night, couldn't wait until next week and that it was refreshing to meet someone who was both attractive and intelligent. It makes a change from H who would rather choke then pay me a compliment and before he left said I was too skinny, too muscly and that I should really do something about the stretch marks (I've had two kids you [censored]hole).
I am glad that I waited so long to put myself out there. One thing I know is that I am not doing this because I am lonely. I have been alone long enough to know I am comfortable in my own space and that being with people, whether it be friends or a relationship is a choice and not born out of loneliness. I have the kids from tomorrow for a week and I will love spending time with them. Then next week I am seeing the 25 year old one night and the single dad another. I am also going out with friends one of the nights, and going to the gym when I can.
Life is full and it is good.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/04/19 07:50 PM
You're a real example, Fly. I know I'm nowhere near ready yet. I know it. I feel lonely and I think if I dated I'd be too willing to accept poor behaviour (or out and out sex pests and nutters) to get those compliments and crumbs of affection. My dog adores me and I have lots of hugs from my friends, who also give me plenty of compliments. In a strange way it helps me to see why H would have had his EA. It wasn't okay, and it really hurt, but I get how fundamental that need is to have fun, to be around someone who is attracted to you, who seems to like you, who is curious about you. I do get that. I hope you have some wonderful dates and selfishly, I hope you come and tell us homebodies all about them.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/04/19 07:55 PM
Gosh, I realised I haven't been on a date in 28 years...
ARSE LICKING?! OMG. Wow. Just wow. Is this how people behave with relative strangers nowadays, or is it just the weird dregs on dating apps? Honestly, it sounds like something straight off a sitcom.
Arse licking? I mean, what, does he practice with his bosses at work or something?! Gobsmacking
ARSE LICKING?! OMG. Wow. Just wow. Is this how people behave with relative strangers nowadays, or is it just the weird dregs on dating apps? Honestly, it sounds like something straight off a sitcom.
Arse licking? I mean, what, does he practice with his bosses at work or something?! Gobsmacking
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 12:57 AM
Yes, apparently it's a thing. Now, I'm far from a prude, and I am definitely not one to judge what consenting adults choose to do behind closed doors, but I probably wouldn't lead with telling someone that's what I want to do on a first date, or any date in fact. Either the standards for what is acceptable to say on a first date has changed A LOT or I am a straight up weirdo magnet.
Date 4 - the poetic one, who is actually a photographer, was sort of my type, in that the conversation was varied, challenging and a little philosophical. He had lots of Sanskrit tatts with things like "let each of my actions benefit the greatest number of people" and "run wild, be free". I can't actually remember if that's what they said, but they were a long those kind of yoga meditationish lines. He talked about the importance of being true to yourself, eating well, living honestly and seeing the world. We decided to continue the conversation back at his, which was identical to the house I flat shared in when I was in my 20's (no, he is mid 30's) and I remembered I am not in my 20's and shouldn't be with a man who still lives and talks like a university student. So, drank some wine, made out a little then made my excuses, and headed home.
I completely get where you're coming from Alison. It is hard to know if the desire to be with someone is because you're insecure and lonely, or because you actually like being with them. I think the time alone has served me well. I know what I want and what I want is for it to feel real. Four dates now, and I can honestly say that the only one that even remotely felt real was the first one. The rest, I could take or leave. Yes, the validation is nice, but honestly, I don't think I need it. Yes, the sex is nice, but i've gone so long without it, that I know I don't need it.
The time spent alone taught me that my H was wrong - I am worth a hell of a lot more than he made me think I was worth. Yes, I failed our M in so many ways, but so did he. And I wasn't the one that bailed.
I read this today "She was not waiting for a knight, she was looking for a sword" (credit to Atticus).
Date 4 - the poetic one, who is actually a photographer, was sort of my type, in that the conversation was varied, challenging and a little philosophical. He had lots of Sanskrit tatts with things like "let each of my actions benefit the greatest number of people" and "run wild, be free". I can't actually remember if that's what they said, but they were a long those kind of yoga meditationish lines. He talked about the importance of being true to yourself, eating well, living honestly and seeing the world. We decided to continue the conversation back at his, which was identical to the house I flat shared in when I was in my 20's (no, he is mid 30's) and I remembered I am not in my 20's and shouldn't be with a man who still lives and talks like a university student. So, drank some wine, made out a little then made my excuses, and headed home.
I completely get where you're coming from Alison. It is hard to know if the desire to be with someone is because you're insecure and lonely, or because you actually like being with them. I think the time alone has served me well. I know what I want and what I want is for it to feel real. Four dates now, and I can honestly say that the only one that even remotely felt real was the first one. The rest, I could take or leave. Yes, the validation is nice, but honestly, I don't think I need it. Yes, the sex is nice, but i've gone so long without it, that I know I don't need it.
The time spent alone taught me that my H was wrong - I am worth a hell of a lot more than he made me think I was worth. Yes, I failed our M in so many ways, but so did he. And I wasn't the one that bailed.
I read this today "She was not waiting for a knight, she was looking for a sword" (credit to Atticus).
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 06:13 AM
Re arse-licking, and without wanting to get into TMI - but mine and my H's intimate life, other than the period I had PND, has not been lacking. I think when everything else went kaput, it was the single place that we were able to give to each other and take from each other without fear and resentment and defensiveness. It wasn't perfect, and eventually the sadness in the marriage showed up in the bedroom too, but for a long time we were very free with each other. I felt safe with him and I think he felt safe enough to be both bold and vulnerable with me. And STILL I think I'd have to have a glass of wine or two (and I don't drink!) to work up the courage to ask for some arse-licking.
Date four sounds both exactly my type, and like he needs to grow up a bit.
Do you daughters know you are dating? Does your H? Is that something you worry about? I am imagining you are keeping this aspect of your GAL to the times when your daughters are with your H, and that's probably wisest: you're allowed a private life. Do you think your H would react to this in any way if he knew, or is that just not on your radar at all?
Date four sounds both exactly my type, and like he needs to grow up a bit.
Do you daughters know you are dating? Does your H? Is that something you worry about? I am imagining you are keeping this aspect of your GAL to the times when your daughters are with your H, and that's probably wisest: you're allowed a private life. Do you think your H would react to this in any way if he knew, or is that just not on your radar at all?
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 08:23 AM
You're both welcome to date number 4, I'm imagining batik wall hangings!
I'm enjoying the vicarious dating here though. The arse-licking still has me shaking my head
I'm enjoying the vicarious dating here though. The arse-licking still has me shaking my head
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 11:47 AM
Alison - It wasn't the act that I objected to, it was the sitting across from me in a nice bar and saying that that was what he'd like to do. Things happen in the heat of the moment, but shouldn't be the asked about in a nice bar with someone you've just met.
I have not told my girls about the dating. I plan them around my nights without the girls and only ever in London. I don't want to run into anyone locally. I am sure my H would react, but he can't very well say anything about it to me. He left. He has dated (and could still be dating for all I know). He has said he is not coming back. All his actions tell me that I do not need to seek his permission, nor should I feel guilty for anything I do. But yet, he would find a way to punish me, and my dating would be substantial punishment. He knows me well enough to know that if I am dating, I am sleeping with other people. That alone would either be the thing that snaps him out of his madness, or the thing that triggers him to start proceedings.
He is going to Vegas today with two of his friends. I am not seeing him for a week. I have not asked what he will do whilst he is there and it is very unlikely he will contact me - though he will call the girls. I am actually relatively relaxed about this.
I have not told my girls about the dating. I plan them around my nights without the girls and only ever in London. I don't want to run into anyone locally. I am sure my H would react, but he can't very well say anything about it to me. He left. He has dated (and could still be dating for all I know). He has said he is not coming back. All his actions tell me that I do not need to seek his permission, nor should I feel guilty for anything I do. But yet, he would find a way to punish me, and my dating would be substantial punishment. He knows me well enough to know that if I am dating, I am sleeping with other people. That alone would either be the thing that snaps him out of his madness, or the thing that triggers him to start proceedings.
He is going to Vegas today with two of his friends. I am not seeing him for a week. I have not asked what he will do whilst he is there and it is very unlikely he will contact me - though he will call the girls. I am actually relatively relaxed about this.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 11:49 AM
Dilly - unfortunately, there won't be any dating updates for a while. I am on childcare duty until Tuesday next week so full mum mode, and actually pretty glad for it. I have missed my girls.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 12:13 PM
I think having that privacy and your own life - and feeling comfy about your H having the privacy of his own life (on his trip) is probably one of the keys to detachment. I'm glad you're looking forward to seeing your girls!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by FlySolo
It makes a change from H who would rather choke then pay me a compliment and before he left said I was too skinny, too muscly and that I should really do something about the stretch marks (I've had two kids you [censored]hole).
Seriously, what a tool. Someone that doesn't have some scars and stretch marks by 40 is living a sheltered life. In the same way a perfect diamond needs a flaw for us to appreciate it's perfection, a few marks on a woman's body just highlights her beauty in my opinion.
Originally Posted by FlySolo
Yes, apparently it's a thing. Now, I'm far from a prude, and I am definitely not one to judge what consenting adults choose to do behind closed doors, but I probably wouldn't lead with telling someone that's what I want to do on a first date, or any date in fact. Either the standards for what is acceptable to say on a first date has changed A LOT or I am a straight up weirdo magnet.
My girlfriend is in her late 20's and I dated a few other women spanning all ages before her and it is definitely more of a "thing" with the younger crowd. But no no noooooo that is so inappropriate to discuss on a first date, LOL! WOW! I can't really imagine anything more creepy, did he drive there in a white windowless van?
Quote
The time spent alone taught me that my H was wrong - I am worth a hell of a lot more than he made me think I was worth. Yes, I failed our M in so many ways, but so did he. And I wasn't the one that bailed.
Yes, well said and that is exactly right. That's one of the reasons you see me telling people not to jump into dating too soon, first you have to find peace and happiness alone. My girlfriend likes to watch RuPaul's Drag Race and at the end of it he always says "If you don't love yourself then how are you going to love somebody else, can I get an amen!" Very true statement. I think a lot of people that get BD'd don't love themselves as a result of it (or maybe even before) and even think they are unlovable. They are so desperate to fill that "hole" in themselves that they jump into dating too soon.
I'm not saying you're not ready, it sounds like you are! Good luck, hopefully someone will check all the boxes on your "want list"
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/05/19 01:57 PM
Happy to hear your updates FS. Funny how the most real date was with the youngest guy...lol. Glad someone else has had my experience. . Sounds like he is pretty into you too with his texting updates and his enthusiasm about seeing you again. I think if you enjoy spending time with him, keep doing it. I’ve been seeing Jack for almost six weeks now and the age difference is becoming less and less of an issue. Anyway...glad you are having fun!!! Keep us posted!!!
. Sounds like he is pretty into you too with his texting updates and his enthusiasm about seeing you again. I think if you enjoy spending time with him, keep doing it. I’ve been seeing Jack for almost six weeks now and the age difference is becoming less and less of an issue. Anyway...glad you are having fun!!! Keep us posted!!!
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/06/19 10:14 PM
Hey AS - thanks for chiming in. Yes, he is a tool (I haven't heard that term used in years). I do think a lot of it was symptomatic of the place he was at at the time. He NEEDED to find things wrong with me because if there was nothing wrong with me, what did that say about him. I get it. And I don't take it personally anymore. Strangely, I catch him looking at me from time to time, and I know he finds me attractive, but I also know he'd rather stick hot pokers in his eyes then ever say it. That's his problem to deal with. Not mine.
Not sure if he had a white van. Did not stick around long enough to find out. I did find out he lives with his parents (he is renovating a flat apparently). What man in their 30's lives with their parents?!?!?
I'm glad I waited to date. Now that I have done it I don't know if it is for me. This has nothing to do with my H. I just find it all a little forced and, really, the effort required is huge. I have never seen more than one man at a time and now I am effectively dating three men, only one of whom I actually feel a proper connection with (and he is in no way viable). I know it's the done thing now, chatting away with multiple people at the same time, but it feels like I am in some way leading people on. And I am still being contacted by others and I still check every now and again to see if any of them have any potential. This does not feel right. People are going to get hurt. And it won't be me.
DV - I think I will refer to the 25 year old the scientist. The thing that made it feel like a connection was that we were very 'couply'. We held hands whilst we slept. We spooned. We lay in bed in the morning just chilling out in each others arms. I have only felt like that with two men, both of whom I was engaged to and one I married. I know the difference between sex and intimacy and this was definitely intimacy.
He has not text in the last two days. But he is on one of the smaller islands in Thailand and I guess he is busy doing stuff and/or wi-fi is not that easy to find. I wasn't expecting him to text me at all whilst he is away, so I am not too worried about not hearing from him. He could also be using the time to work out how he feels.
H has been away for two days now and I have not spoken to him. He called the girls earlier this evening and I heard D9 ask if he wanted to speak to me. He was on speaker phone and his response was "I don't think mummy wants to speak to me" . D9 came into my room and asked if I wanted to speak to him and I said "No, I am OK". There was a sadness in his voice. Not his usual "I don't need to talk to mummy". Not "No, unless mummy needs to speak to me".
Not sure if he had a white van. Did not stick around long enough to find out. I did find out he lives with his parents (he is renovating a flat apparently). What man in their 30's lives with their parents?!?!?
I'm glad I waited to date. Now that I have done it I don't know if it is for me. This has nothing to do with my H. I just find it all a little forced and, really, the effort required is huge. I have never seen more than one man at a time and now I am effectively dating three men, only one of whom I actually feel a proper connection with (and he is in no way viable). I know it's the done thing now, chatting away with multiple people at the same time, but it feels like I am in some way leading people on. And I am still being contacted by others and I still check every now and again to see if any of them have any potential. This does not feel right. People are going to get hurt. And it won't be me.
DV - I think I will refer to the 25 year old the scientist. The thing that made it feel like a connection was that we were very 'couply'. We held hands whilst we slept. We spooned. We lay in bed in the morning just chilling out in each others arms. I have only felt like that with two men, both of whom I was engaged to and one I married. I know the difference between sex and intimacy and this was definitely intimacy.
He has not text in the last two days. But he is on one of the smaller islands in Thailand and I guess he is busy doing stuff and/or wi-fi is not that easy to find. I wasn't expecting him to text me at all whilst he is away, so I am not too worried about not hearing from him. He could also be using the time to work out how he feels.
H has been away for two days now and I have not spoken to him. He called the girls earlier this evening and I heard D9 ask if he wanted to speak to me. He was on speaker phone and his response was "I don't think mummy wants to speak to me" . D9 came into my room and asked if I wanted to speak to him and I said "No, I am OK". There was a sadness in his voice. Not his usual "I don't need to talk to mummy". Not "No, unless mummy needs to speak to me".
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/06/19 11:56 PM
The intimacy is nice, isn't it FS? That's definitely what I have with Jack who, I realized, I have been seeing for eight weeks now, not six like I said. Wow time flies!! The sex is great, no doubt, but the intimacy is something I really value and missed in my marriage for a long long time. Glad you got to feel that again even if you don't think the relationship is viable. (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/07/19 07:12 AM
FS, you sound totally sorted out and healthy. Able to enjoy intimacy, but also able to step back from it and decide if it is something you really want right now. Able to see the funny side of your dating adventures, without accepting less than you want. Even if you don't do any more dating, it sounds like it's been a real growth experience for you.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/09/19 05:57 PM
Quick entry today.
MIL offered to have the children last night and today (she dropped them off about an hour ago). It was nice to have the evening to myself. I binge watched a programme on telly and just sat around doing not much. Not depressed, woe is me sitting around, just sitting around. I am a little unwell so needed the break.
The scientist has not been in contact for a few days. I suspect he is having second thoughts, which is understandable given the age difference and the intensity of the connection, so I am not too upset by it. I am taking away from the experience that it is possible to have a connection with someone who is not my H. To look at the world again as one of possibilities. The single dad has been in contact daily. He is really very sweet but I do not think I am attracted to him in the way he wants, so will probably have to tell him soon. Other than that, I have said no to everyone who has expressed an interest (mainly because they are in their 20's) in me on the OLD site.
As my kids were with my MIL last night I have not heard from H at all. MIL said she spoke to him last night (when he called the kids) and mentioned there was a problem with the boiler here (the water is not heating up as hot as it use to). He went off on why the boiler wasn't working, had I been mucking about with it, did I get someone in who mucked about with it and MIL calmly said "I doubt FS would play around with the boiler" and maybe ask her if someone's been around. Makes me realise that under the niceties the anger and blame is still so close to the surface.
MIL offered to have the children last night and today (she dropped them off about an hour ago). It was nice to have the evening to myself. I binge watched a programme on telly and just sat around doing not much. Not depressed, woe is me sitting around, just sitting around. I am a little unwell so needed the break.
The scientist has not been in contact for a few days. I suspect he is having second thoughts, which is understandable given the age difference and the intensity of the connection, so I am not too upset by it. I am taking away from the experience that it is possible to have a connection with someone who is not my H. To look at the world again as one of possibilities. The single dad has been in contact daily. He is really very sweet but I do not think I am attracted to him in the way he wants, so will probably have to tell him soon. Other than that, I have said no to everyone who has expressed an interest (mainly because they are in their 20's) in me on the OLD site.
As my kids were with my MIL last night I have not heard from H at all. MIL said she spoke to him last night (when he called the kids) and mentioned there was a problem with the boiler here (the water is not heating up as hot as it use to). He went off on why the boiler wasn't working, had I been mucking about with it, did I get someone in who mucked about with it and MIL calmly said "I doubt FS would play around with the boiler" and maybe ask her if someone's been around. Makes me realise that under the niceties the anger and blame is still so close to the surface.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/10/19 10:52 AM
That's a good, healthy takeaway to have on the dating front, FS. The future is bright with or without your H! That was very childish about the boiler...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/10/19 12:01 PM
The boiler comment sounds like someone who doesn't like not being in control of the domestic territory. The boiler is really none of his business unless you ask him for some help - and you haven't - and it's put him into a tizzy. When their hearts are in that place - all anger and blame and self pity - you could have put in a new solid gold boiler with your own money and he still would have found something to moan about.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/10/19 04:40 PM
Yeah - the boiler thing is typical H. Something goes wrong and it must be my fault. He'd never say it to my face anymore, so that's something. He stews in the background until he calms down and can think rationally.
The scientist got in contact this morning. He has been trekking with locals so was out of contact. He sent the message as he was getting on the plane to come home. His messages are very intellectual. He talks about poverty, how we have lost our way with rampant capitalism - and he works in banking ?!?!? Among the photos he sent (mostly photos from his trek/beaches) was one of the book he plans to read on the plane - serious economics text based on Thai economy. I like an intellect but am worried he might out intellect me.
H arrives tomorrow. I imagine I will get grilled on the boiler situation. Urgh.
The scientist got in contact this morning. He has been trekking with locals so was out of contact. He sent the message as he was getting on the plane to come home. His messages are very intellectual. He talks about poverty, how we have lost our way with rampant capitalism - and he works in banking ?!?!? Among the photos he sent (mostly photos from his trek/beaches) was one of the book he plans to read on the plane - serious economics text based on Thai economy. I like an intellect but am worried he might out intellect me.
H arrives tomorrow. I imagine I will get grilled on the boiler situation. Urgh.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/10/19 04:46 PM
Your scientist man sounds like he's trying to impress you. It's very sweet. You might not be as well read in his field, but you are a thoughtful and intelligent woman - he obviously wants you to admire him, so I don't think you need to worry.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/10/19 07:38 PM
Lol at the solid gold boiler comment
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/11/19 05:44 AM
Boilergate update
H called the girls last night. He is back. I heard him speaking to the girls about the boiler and they both said the water was coming out cold. We had a man come over about a week ago to check it (he arranged it and we went halves). He started talking me through what I should do and I said that he was over tomorrow (today) and I could wait. But, nope, he wanted to fix it then and there.
H: What color is the light
M: Amber
H: Are you sure?
M: Yes
M: There is a reset button. Do you want me to press that?
H: No. Just turn the dial up
M: I can't. It's already as high as it will go
H. Are you sure?
M: Yes - I heard the click.
H: Turn the dial to off
M: Done
H: What color is the light
M: Amber
H: You haven't turned it off properly
M: Yes I have. It clicked and it won't go down any further.
H. OK. Now turn the dial back to max.
M: Done
H. What color is the light?
M: Amber
H: Click the reset button
M: I did.
H: What color is the light?
M: Amber
H: Urgh, I'll come over and look at it tomorrow.
I could hear the frustration in his voice as we got further and further down the conversation. If I closed my eyes I would have caught a whisper of the sneer in his face and his brows furrowing.
Meanwhile - scientist and I spent most of the evening on chat. He is super nice. Deep down I know it's nothing but a distraction and not real life. Real life is the conversation above. But it's nice and, well, the conversation above was, although short, exhausting and so so weighted.
H called the girls last night. He is back. I heard him speaking to the girls about the boiler and they both said the water was coming out cold. We had a man come over about a week ago to check it (he arranged it and we went halves). He started talking me through what I should do and I said that he was over tomorrow (today) and I could wait. But, nope, he wanted to fix it then and there.
H: What color is the light
M: Amber
H: Are you sure?
M: Yes
M: There is a reset button. Do you want me to press that?
H: No. Just turn the dial up
M: I can't. It's already as high as it will go
H. Are you sure?
M: Yes - I heard the click.
H: Turn the dial to off
M: Done
H: What color is the light
M: Amber
H: You haven't turned it off properly
M: Yes I have. It clicked and it won't go down any further.
H. OK. Now turn the dial back to max.
M: Done
H. What color is the light?
M: Amber
H: Click the reset button
M: I did.
H: What color is the light?
M: Amber
H: Urgh, I'll come over and look at it tomorrow.
I could hear the frustration in his voice as we got further and further down the conversation. If I closed my eyes I would have caught a whisper of the sneer in his face and his brows furrowing.
Meanwhile - scientist and I spent most of the evening on chat. He is super nice. Deep down I know it's nothing but a distraction and not real life. Real life is the conversation above. But it's nice and, well, the conversation above was, although short, exhausting and so so weighted.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/11/19 06:19 AM
Fly, I think you did really well in the boiler conversation not to get defensive or reactive. I know how hard that is for me and in those circumstances I don't think I could have done it.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/13/19 10:59 PM
The boiler is working !!! Pressing that darn reset button managed to kick start it (who would though that would happen when a press a button marked RESET)
Very little contact with H. He turned up unexpectedly on Wednesday morning and was surprised to see me home. Apparently he came to walk our dog. I think he has made a copy of the bottom lock key (I only gave him a key for the top lock) as I accidentally left a spare set of keys out when he had the girls Tuesday. Urghhh
That's it in terms of contact. A few texts, a quick chat on the phone today about D12's counselling session.
I wonder if I have "dropped the rope". I don't think so, but my grip on it is no longer as tight. I remember writing some time back that I would know I was moving on way after I had actually moved on, and I think that is true. I don't think about him nearly as much and the lovingly detached comes naturally. I don't double and triple think every action, I text when I want to, I respond straight away if I see a text come through, and not if I don't. I call if i need something urgently. I send pics and he sends pics of the children. The thought process is gone.
Sure, it still hurts from time to time and I still very much want to reconcile, but those thoughts are in the background instead of constantly replaying in the foreground.
I have not gone on anymore dates or indeed, engaged with any of the men who have contacted me on the OLD. It is just too much effort. I am going to dinner and to a comedy club with the scientist tomorrow night (i seriously think I am at risk of falling for him) and to dinner with the single dad next week (as a way of convincing myself I am NOT falling for the scientist).
Very little contact with H. He turned up unexpectedly on Wednesday morning and was surprised to see me home. Apparently he came to walk our dog. I think he has made a copy of the bottom lock key (I only gave him a key for the top lock) as I accidentally left a spare set of keys out when he had the girls Tuesday. Urghhh
That's it in terms of contact. A few texts, a quick chat on the phone today about D12's counselling session.
I wonder if I have "dropped the rope". I don't think so, but my grip on it is no longer as tight. I remember writing some time back that I would know I was moving on way after I had actually moved on, and I think that is true. I don't think about him nearly as much and the lovingly detached comes naturally. I don't double and triple think every action, I text when I want to, I respond straight away if I see a text come through, and not if I don't. I call if i need something urgently. I send pics and he sends pics of the children. The thought process is gone.
Sure, it still hurts from time to time and I still very much want to reconcile, but those thoughts are in the background instead of constantly replaying in the foreground.
I have not gone on anymore dates or indeed, engaged with any of the men who have contacted me on the OLD. It is just too much effort. I am going to dinner and to a comedy club with the scientist tomorrow night (i seriously think I am at risk of falling for him) and to dinner with the single dad next week (as a way of convincing myself I am NOT falling for the scientist).
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/14/19 07:14 AM
LOL... glad the boiler is working again! I always feel most proud of myself when I fix something or get it working without the help of my XH or any man TBH. In danger of falling for the young guy you didn’t think was viable? Hmmm...where have I heard that before? 
. I think maybe you and I are leading parallel lives FS. Go out with him and have fun. That’s what everyone told me to do...lol. Seems like sound advice to me. (((HUGS)))
. I think maybe you and I are leading parallel lives FS. Go out with him and have fun. That’s what everyone told me to do...lol. Seems like sound advice to me. (((HUGS)))
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/14/19 07:20 AM
Even if you do fall for the scientist, there are lots of ways to make a good relationship. Perhaps you'll always live apart, or have a long term casual arrangement that suits you both, or a very intense, healing and friendly fling. The world is your oyster!
P.S I think it's OUTRAGEOUS he's had a key cut. You're a very calm and patient woman.
P.S I think it's OUTRAGEOUS he's had a key cut. You're a very calm and patient woman.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/15/19 07:58 PM
Getting the key cut is outrageous, if he has actually had one cut. I don't know TBH, and it is unlikely he will tell me. I am going to turn the camera on the driveway back on just to make sure. I've worked out how to turn it back on without him being on the account. If he has gotten a key cut, I will be getting a new lock put in.
Yep, definitely falling for the non-viable scientist. We had our second date last night. Dinner, live comedy followed by drinks and dancing. We ended up spending the night together - we made it through one drink after the show. It was awkward at first, seeing him again. We have only met once + shared a ton of messages so neither of us were sure what the etiquette would be when we met again. But once we'd got over the initial awkwardness, it was like catching up with an old friend who you haven't seen in a while. The words flowed. It is very strange and I had to keep reminding myself that this was only our second date.
Anyway, H was supposed to have the girls overnight at his but I got a text last night saying if I was going to be late or away then could he have the girls at the house instead. He also needed me to take D12 to her theatre group at 10 as he was taking D9 to an all day netball tournament. For many reasons it made sense for him to stay at the house, and if I had not rushed back to take D12 then she would not have been able to go, but a part of me still feels like this is him trying to control my life.
Yep, definitely falling for the non-viable scientist. We had our second date last night. Dinner, live comedy followed by drinks and dancing. We ended up spending the night together - we made it through one drink after the show. It was awkward at first, seeing him again. We have only met once + shared a ton of messages so neither of us were sure what the etiquette would be when we met again. But once we'd got over the initial awkwardness, it was like catching up with an old friend who you haven't seen in a while. The words flowed. It is very strange and I had to keep reminding myself that this was only our second date.
Anyway, H was supposed to have the girls overnight at his but I got a text last night saying if I was going to be late or away then could he have the girls at the house instead. He also needed me to take D12 to her theatre group at 10 as he was taking D9 to an all day netball tournament. For many reasons it made sense for him to stay at the house, and if I had not rushed back to take D12 then she would not have been able to go, but a part of me still feels like this is him trying to control my life.
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/15/19 09:05 PM
Hmmm if I were to engage in the mind reading I’m trying really hard to quit, I’d say your H was def trying to find out what you were up to. Unless this is the kind of thing you all do sometimes, that feels like might sense that you have other places to be at night and wanted to find out for sure...
Re: Keeping the Faith ... is really hard (Part 5) - 06/15/19 09:19 PM