Old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2831639&page=11Just journaling here because I know you all can relate to my predicament better than anyone else in my life.
W finally managed to build up enough credit to qualify for a mortgage and purchased a house. She and the kids are moving out of their rental in May. The house isn't far from their current place so there's no issue with longer distances. The neighborhood isn't the greatest, but there isn't much she can do about that without my income.
The kids are excited to move, partly because it's new and exciting, and partly because their current place kinda [censored]. I'm glad they're getting an upgrade.
But I fall short of saying "congratulations" to her when she tells me about the house. I smile and say things like, "that's great" or "cool". But what I really want to say is, "You have a perfectly good house right here. What the eff is wrong with you."
I still haven't had a face to face with OM and I'm in no hurry to do so. I think my W avoids inviting him to events that she knows I'll be attending to spare my feelings. I suppose it's a bit patronizing, but at the same time I appreciate the effort. Or maybe its just because she knows how awkward it would be for all of us. I don't know. I'm really just mind reading anyway, and that never helps.
My greatest fear is that OM will move in after she buys the house. This has never come up in our discussions about her move, but I haven't directly asked her. We have a session with the therapist this week and I'm intending to bring it up.
No further discussion about finalizing the divorce either. I struggle with the idea of moving it along because I really don't want it and I don't want any of the credit for making it happen. At the same time it feels really fake to still have that legal contract between us and nothing else.
My daughter regularly asks me why we "can't go back to being married again." I never know how to answer this. Most of the time I use my W's bullsh1t excuse of "we're better off as friends." I'd really love to tell her that her mother doesn't want to be married to me anymore, but I'm trying to be a good parent. She's only 7 and picking sides won't do her any good. I'm sure both my kids will figure it out eventually.
My GAL activities have slowed as of late, but it's partly due to the weather. Now that spring is here I'm back to my normal running routine. But I don't really socialize much. I exhibit some symptoms of depression but it comes and goes. The beginning of the week is usually hardest for me. Sometimes the daily grind seems pointless but my kids keep me going.
The one thing I just don't understand is how people can jump into a new relationship within a year after a long term marriage ends. I'm casually dating a woman with a good job and kids the same age as mine. From a practical standpoint teaming up with her is a no brainer. But it doesn't feel genuine. And this leads me to wonder if it will ever feel genuine while I'm still attached to the memory of my marriage. Maybe forcing myself into a new relationship is what kick-starts the process of finally detaching. Doesn't seem right though.
Hard to believe it will be 3 years since BD in May...
The one thing I just don't understand is how people can jump into a new relationship within a year after a long term marriage ends.
I agree, although I'm sure the timeline isn't the same for everyone. I started dating about a year after BD and later realized I wasn't anywhere close to ready. I think we have this feeling of wanting to get in another R as a way to make all the pain and headaches of dealing with our broken M go away, but what really happens is all of that is still there, PLUS the challenges of a new R. It's far better to resolve all the old issues before starting a new R.
I'm casually dating a woman with a good job and kids the same age as mine. From a practical standpoint teaming up with her is a no brainer. But it doesn't feel genuine. And this leads me to wonder if it will ever feel genuine while I'm still attached to the memory of my marriage.
Yes I can relate to that feeling. It didn't feel right. I bounced in and out of a few relationships before finally settling into one with my current GF. It just took a while to feel comfortable with someone again.
Maybe forcing myself into a new relationship is what kick-starts the process of finally detaching. Doesn't seem right though.
That was definitely not the case for me. It just led to a lot of confusing feelings about whether I was doing the right thing.
Thanks Stander! Good to know I'm not the only one. I know that everyone is different, but it's hard not to be critical about my ex who basically created a brand new life within a year. The fact that I'm still not over it after almost 3 years makes me feel like I'm weak or mentally inferior. It also makes me feel like I'm never going to get over it.
Wow. 3 years since the bomb drop! I remember it was a Friday and my kids had field day at school. They were 7 and 4. Now they're 10 and 7, and I'm starting to have a hard time remembering what it was like when we were a foursome instead of a trio. I wonder how much they remember?
I've haven't really brought up the divorce subject with my ex since December, but it's clear to me now that she's trying to delay moving forward for as long as she can. If you haven't read my previous posts, my ex is self employed and was going through some health issues back then. So I agreed to delay filing so that she could stay on my health insurance while she was in the middle of appointments and procedures.
6 months later the health issues seem to be contained and my ex is in the middle of moving in to a new house that requires major indoor renovations. So I think the "I can't afford health insurance" excuse has run its course.
Meanwhile, I'm having difficulty starting up new dating relationships since most women are leery of a guy who is still only separated ...especially after this much time has passed. My explanation holds water with most people but it always feels like I'm trying to be deceptive even though I'm not.
The idea of filing without consulting with her has crossed my mind, but frankly I'm a little worried about how she might react to being surprised with divorce papers. So far we've worked through all the separation of assets and custody together without any issues, and I'd just assume that we do the same to finalize the divorce. But I'm not really sure what I'm afraid of... probably just the idea of spending boat loads of cash to litigate over something.
Anyway, "still not detached" is probably better described as "almost detached" at this point. It seems to happen on its own. I guess you just have to persevere until the emotional dust settles.
Hi Chris, good to hear from you. My BD was April 2016 so I'm always interested to hear about your sitch.
Two questions for you: has your ex-wife ever hinted or said that she regrets her decision or that she might want to try again? And if not, would you if she asked and what would that have to look like before you agreed? Are you still attracted to her now that you're almost detached?
Hey Chris, glad to hear you're doing well!
The idea of filing without consulting with her has crossed my mind, but frankly I'm a little worried about how she might react to being surprised with divorce papers.
Have you thought about approaching her first and stating that you are ready to proceed with D and ask if she is OK with mediation? My XW had papers drawn up early on but never filed. A couple of years after BD I was finally the one to push it through. We used the papers she had drawn up and technically she filed, but it was at my request.
Hi Slater and AnotherStander. Thanks for your responses.
...has your ex-wife ever hinted or said that she regrets her decision or that she might want to try again?
Not even once.
...if not, would you if she asked and what would that have to look like before you agreed?
My answer to that has changed as time has passed. If you had asked me that a year ago I would have said: "Maybe, with a lot of work to restore trust." But a year later, the only reason why I would still entertain the idea of a reconciliation is for the sake of kids having a more stable environment... but that's really not a good reason.
...are you still attracted to her now that you're almost detached?
I'm really not. For a while after she left I used to fantasize about being with her physically, but that doesn't happen anymore. The feelings of pain and loss have been almost completely replaced by a generic feeling of emptiness - neither positive or negative...just void.
The good news for me is that in addition to the space she's put between us and the continued presence of OM, she's starting to lose her looks a little. I realize how superficial that statement is, but I guess if the ultimate goal is detachment, any little bit helps right?
Have you thought about approaching her first and stating that you are ready to proceed with D and ask if she is OK with mediation? My XW had papers drawn up early on but never filed. A couple of years after BD I was finally the one to push it through. We used the papers she had drawn up and technically she filed, but it was at my request.
Actually, this sounds exactly like my situation. So far we have worked together on all the aspects of ending the marriage. Nothing legal has been drafted, but we did write up a separation agreement that needed to be signed and notarized in order for me to refinance my mortgage and remove her from the house. So when I broached the subject back in December, my preference was that we would work together to handle the filing. But we haven't discussed it since. Earlier this week I asked her about it again and she said she would need to wait until she was settled in her new house... she's moving this weekend. So I'm going to give it a little more time.
Earlier this week I asked her about it again and she said she would need to wait until she was settled in her new house... she's moving this weekend. So I'm going to give it a little more time.
Yeah that sounds like a very good idea, very reasonable of you. She's got a lot going on so you should give her time to settle in first.
Hey Chris, did you finalize your divorce with XW?
Advice needed...
Last night, after a long (fun) day at the pool with my kids, I drove them to their mom's house to drop them off for the night... each kid had a friend with them so four kids total in the car. She knew we were coming and we agreed that it would be sometime after 8pm.
So it's 8:30 and we're about 5 miles from her house when I get a txt from her: "I'm home now so you can come over any time, just let me know when you're on your way". I didn't respond because I don't txt and drive and since we were so close to her house, I didn't think it mattered.
We pull up at the house and OM's car is in the driveway. My son says, "(OM's name) is here"... not in a "ut oh" sort of way, just matter-of-factly.
I put on my game face. This will be the first time we've been in each other's company.
I walk in the house, the kids scatter, the (new) dog goes crazy. OM is sitting on the couch. Ex says, "Chris, this is (OM)." I say something like, "Hey, how you doing?" he says the same. Our eyes don't meet. He doesn't get off the couch. I don't approach him.
I continue filling EX in on the details of the weekend... who showered when, what they packed, plans for the week, etc.
Soon after, I turn to leave. My kids kiss/hug me goodbye. I say goodbye to the 2 friends. Then I blurt out "(OM) nice meeting you." He says something similar and I leave.
It was hard, but time is the great equalizer. If this had happened 2 years ago, I would have been a total mess.
Anyway, about an hour after I got home, I get a txt from me EX (verbatim):
"...I didn't mean to surprise you with (OM) here. That's why I asked you to let me know when you were on your way, he was going to leave for a bit so not to make things uncomfortable for you."
I struggled for almost an hour trying to decide how to respond to this.
Here are the things that bother me about this text:
1. It seems like she's putting the blame of the uncomfortable situation on me because I didn't let her know I was on my way
2. I think the whole idea of OM "leaving for a bit" is so patronizing. Does she really think that I'm the only one who would be uncomfortable with an impromptu meeting? I feel like I'm being cast as the emotionally unstable wuss that everyone else has to tiptoe around.
3. Why txt me at all with this? Sure it was uncomfortable... and not just for me. But it happened. The ice is broken. Let's move on with our lives.
In the end I didn't respond at all. I couldn't think of any appropriate reply. Although sometimes no reply at all speaks volumes.
What do you all think?
C,
I wouldn’t even respond.
You got it out of the way and now it’s done. Unfortunately after bomb drop and the crying, begging and pleading they always think it’s going to be this way. That’s why they are so sure of plan B. They don’t realize the LBS actually becomes strong as fuch.
You could have an ex that flaunts it in your face.
Thanks LH19. I never responded. And you're right, at least the ex is being respectful enough to comply... even if making him leave the house while I'm there is a little silly.
I still feel as if the EX is very unstable and/or afraid of making waves with OM. Here's why:
Last night I called her to talk about back to school plans. I suggested that the night before the first day of school would be a nice opportunity for the 4 of us to have dinner as a way of ending the summer and setting the expectations for the school year. She objected immediately and said that there really isn't anything to talk about with the kids. They know what's expected of them and they don't need to hear us go over it with them again. I wanted to argue with her, but I didn't.
...the idea of having the occasional family meal, post-breakup, was suggested by our family therapist a couple of years ago, as a way for the kids to see that our family is still a unit even if the dynamics have changed. Since then I have suggested at least a dozen times that we have one of these meals... neutral territory, not at either parent's house... but EX is always reluctant. The one and only time she complied was last October when we met for bagels on a Sunday morning. I tried to get her to address this reluctance in a therapy session, and her reasoning was that she "didn't want to give the kids the wrong idea about us getting back together."
And 2 years ago, there was some legitimacy in that excuse. But since then, I have never pursued, pushed, argued, pleaded, or done anything else to give her the impression that I want to reconcile. When we communicate it's completely about the kids. I don't ask her about her life. If she asks me about mine, my answers are short.
Anyway, I think I'm done suggesting these "family" meals, and I'm just going to focus on making the most of the time that I spend with my kids. From time to time I hear things like, "Well mom lets us do (such and such) at her house." and it drives me crazy. But I have to remember to stand my ground and continue to enforce MY rules/boundaries with the kids, regardless of what she does. I know they'll hate me for it now, but maybe they'll respect me for it later in life.
But I'm using this forum to speculate... Is she reluctant to have a family meal because it's awkward for her? Or maybe because she doesn't want piss off OM?
Probably a combination of not leading you on and creating expectations for your children and not making things difficult with the OM.
You're always going to be his biggest threat.
I still feel as if the EX is very unstable and/or afraid of making waves with OM. Here's why:
Last night I called her to talk about back to school plans. I suggested that the night before the first day of school would be a nice opportunity for the 4 of us to have dinner as a way of ending the summer and setting the expectations for the school year. She objected immediately and said that there really isn't anything to talk about with the kids. They know what's expected of them and they don't need to hear us go over it with them again. I wanted to argue with her, but I didn't.
I don't know I'd call her unstable for that, that's just typical WAS behavior. Sometimes they like to do that stuff to cake-eat but most of the time they just don't want anything to do with the LBS.
...the idea of having the occasional family meal, post-breakup, was suggested by our family therapist a couple of years ago, as a way for the kids to see that our family is still a unit even if the dynamics have changed.
I am all for it when both parties agree. My XW and I have done this with our kids. But if your W doesn't buy in then you really shouldn't force the issue. And don't blame her or call her names (unstable, etc.), that's her prerogative.
Anyway, I think I'm done suggesting these "family" meals, and I'm just going to focus on making the most of the time that I spend with my kids.
Yes, this!
(This is a day late, but I was too busy having fun with my kids yesterday to write this… a good sign I think!)
I’m posting this in the Newcomers section in hopes that the folks who read it will find something useful to apply to their own circumstances.
Friday, May 27th, 2016.
I boarded the train at 7:29 for my hour-long ride to Philadelphia. I was in a very good mood. It was the Friday before memorial day. I was looking forward to spending the long weekend with my family and some friends. But more importantly, I was feeling optimistic about my marriage. My wife and I had spent the last couple nights discussing our relationship. She had been very open with me about the fact that she wasn’t happy, and we decided together that there were changes both of us could make to improve things.
I’ve always been a trusting person especially with the important people in my life. So when our cell phone bill went up because of my wife’s talk time overages, I just assumed that she was spending a lot of time on the phone with one of her girlfriends. I updated our plan to include unlimited talk time for her phone and forgot about it for a couple months.
Once I arrived at the office that day I spent a few minutes going over the bills and decided to check the phone records to see if her trend of extended talk time had diminished at all. But something made me look further at the details. The extra talk time on my wife’s phone was associated with one specific number. The extended calls, sometimes an hour or more, dated all the way back to January. I cross referenced the number with the numbers of our mutual friends and some of her girlfriends but found no match.
...It’s at this point in the story that I reflect on what I did next. The decision to keep researching the phone number was my first step down a rabbit hole of mistrust and insecurity that would plague me for the next 18th months. Maybe I should have stopped there. Maybe my life would be different today. Maybe my marriage could have been salvaged…
Deciding to dig a little deeper I purchased a one-time cell phone number lookup on the internet. At this point my heart rate was starting to increase. I submitted the number and it came back with the last name of my wife’s old boyfriend.
My entire body was immediately flushed with adrenaline and rage. I jumped up from my desk, ran down the back stairs of my building, outside to the parking lot, and called my wife. When she answered I confronted her immediately with the information and she confessed that yes, she had been talking to this person for most of the year. After some additional prodding, she admitted that they had spent time together in person and that there was some physical contact.
I hung up the phone and did not speak to her again for the rest of the workday.
...Sometimes it seems odd to regard this event as traumatic when compared to people who have suffered intense physical abuse or survived military battles. But I honestly don’t remember what I did for the rest of that workday and I attribute that to post-traumatic stress. We were permitted to leave work 2 hours early that day, in preparation for the holiday weekend, and my next memory is stopping at the bar before getting on the train to try to calm down a bit…
When I arrived home, the environment was total chaos. While I tried to make sense of what was happening and confront my wife in person, my kids (ages 4 and 7 at the time) had friends over and were running in and out of the house at random. Despite this, I was able to get her to admit to multiple sexual exchanges with this person since they reconnected. She was not smug or happy about the predicament that she was in. She was visibly upset and insisted that the relationship with him was over. She told me that she had made plans to start seeing a therapist because she wanted to fix her emotional problems. She insisted that she didn’t want to get a divorce.
I left the house and went for a walk. I thought of getting in my car and driving away, but I didn’t feel like I was in control. The walk didn’t last long. Honestly I’m not sure what I was trying to accomplish. Eventually I went back to my house and tried to act as normal as possible. The kids were still playing in the backyard and a pizza delivery was on its way to my house.
What happened over the next 48 hours is still a blur, but I will forever question if my response to the situation made things worse. Before I even understood what was really happening to my marriage, and before I had the insight from the Divorce Busting resources (including this board), I did the only thing that came naturally to me… I tried to work out the problem through talking. I tried to be empathetic to my wife’s emotions and insisted that we could get past this by working together. I immediately decided to forgo any anger I might have and work on a resolution. I blamed myself for pushing her away and driving her into the arms of another man.
4 years later, I now realize that I reacted this way out of fear… the fear of losing her forever, the fear of my family breaking up and the potential loss of my time with my children, the fear of ending up as a lonely old man who contributes the majority of his income to his ex-wife.
Had I understood that these fears were dictating my behavior, I would have acted differently. I might have decided to ask my wife to leave or move out. Or perhaps less dramatically, I might have stopped speaking to her for a period of time. At that moment it was important for me to stand up for myself so that she understood that her behavior was not acceptable.
But I didn’t do any of those things. And as a result my wife not only got a pass from me, but I’m certain that any respect she had left for me was totally wiped out.
Things got a little better, and then they got a lot worse. Most of what happened after this day is documented here in my posts. My wife moved out 18 months later and has since bought a new house and started a new relationship. He moved in (with his teenage daughter) at the beginning of this month.
The good news, as I reflect on this 4 years later, is that I’m pretty happy with my life right now.
I haven’t started a new romantic relationship and I’m content without one. I’d prefer for my kids to be part of an intact family, with one place to live and 2 full time parents. But I’m doing my best with what I have control over. I kept the family house and made it my own. There is very little evidence that my ex ever lived here.
I still reflect on the things I did that contributed to the downfall of my marriage both before and after this day. Some days I’m filled with regret, doubt, and guilt. But those days happen less and less frequently. It’s a worn out cliche that “time heals all wounds” but it really is true.
Anyway, I guess the purpose of this post (besides being a catharsis for me) is to provide the left-behind spouse (LBS) with some long term context. I think most LBS’s react the same way I did to a bomb-drop situation. So before it’s too late, stand up for yourself (respectfully of course) and don’t provide any additional reasons for your spouse to lose respect for you.
Hi Chris,
Thanks for sharing your story, and glad your life has taken a turn for the better!
Chris,
I remember you were the ultimate anti-DBer in the beginning. You use to ask your cheating W every day how you could make her day better and it would make me cringe. I think it’s great that you updated for the newbies that plactating and being a doormat does not work. I’m glad you are doing well and that also goes to show that with time and space everyone eventually comes out ok.
Keep living your best life!
LH. Wow! I don't think I would have ever remembered those details. I don't have the stomach to re-read my posts! Thanks for reminding me what life was like back then.
Chris 73, this is an awesome post!! We have LBSs here every day that are acting out of fear. I wrote a post, its a sticky above, called How do you DB when you love your spouse? The point of it is that fear drives us to do the wrong things
But what I love best about your post is the happy ending. That you've found peace in your life and have learned to be happy by yourself. R or D, that's what it is really about. Learning that your happiness is your responsibility, and that your spouse's happiness is their responsibility.
Thanks for posting this!
Thanks Steve. I wish I had read your post 4 years ago. I came to the DB forums 6 months after BD and I was beyond desperate. And when you're in that state of mind you'll do anything to try to make things better, even if it means sacrificing your own pride and self-worth.
I still struggle with the "what ifs". I made soooo many bad decisions after that day.
Every time I interact with her now I feel better leaving her behind. She's not the same person I remember from 4 years ago... and neither am I. It just suck$ that this state of limbo has lasted so long. I miss her but I don't want her back. But I'm starting to realize that those 2 emotions can be mutually exclusive.
Every time I interact with her now I feel better leaving her behind.
To clarify "leaving her behind", I mean walking away from the interaction knowing she's staying where she is and not part of my life anymore.
Chris, my only encouragement moving forward is to make sure you deal with any unresolved emotional baggage. Not with her, but with yourself. That is the best way to move on healthy and happy.
Thanks Steve. It's a full-time job! I'm still in IC twice a month. Some days I have to force myself to take a break from "working on myself!"
Chris,
I have merged your threads together in Newcomers. Please stick to one thread until you've reached 100 postings/replies.
You also have a couple of threads in the Divorce section that you can link into this thread if you so desire.