Hello. I can't say I'm too happy to be here, but I am. Here is my story...
We have been married about 20 years, have 4 children. Around the holidays I noticed my husband acting angry towards me whenever I said anything he didn't like. At that time he was talking more and more to another married woman that he met on an online game. Little clues and my gut were telling me that they were not just friends. D-Day was in January 2019 when I happened to find out that he had told the OW that he loved her. I asked my husband if it was true, but he said no. I knew that was a lie! Later that evening I asked more questions and he confessed to saying that he loved her and he was sorry. I think I forgave him too soon. I asked more questions and he answered honestly. A few days later I asked some more questions and got more honest answers.
Fast forward to this week. I know the EA is still ongoing. I told H that I am aware of then ongoing affair. He said nothing, other than they talk about everyday things and life. He did say that they still say I love you to each other. So basically, nothing has changed, except he is more secretive with what he does.
I have been spewed the common ILYBNILWY crap and other stuff that justifies his affair.
What do I do next?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank you so much! I have had a chance to read through some of these. I know that I cannot fix H. He has to struggle on his own and discover that this affair with the OW will end up hurting him more than it will hurt her. I believe she is toying with his emotions and is keeping him around because he makes her feel good and vice versa.
I am doing some things to detach.... giving him his own space, not asking him where he is going or how long. He still shows he cares for me, but I know his heart and mind are on her.
I did break down and cry this weekend when I asked about the ongoing affair. I know his feelings for her will fade...just wish I knew how long it's going to take.
The hardest part for me is not saying ILY. Is this something I should stop saying to him? Thanks
.
Hi HB
I hope you're okay. My H had an EA too and he moved out of our home in January. The EA had ended by that point - but I don't think we repaired the damage at all and I don't think we ever addressed the reasons why he had the EA either. His actions were on him, but there were reasons he was in that place that I contributed to, and they were reasons we weren't able to repair things while he was living with me that I contributed to as well.
I have been been a terrible dark place but am feeling happier in myself these past few weeks and things are looking more hopeful in my situation too. Take a read of my threads if you think it would help.
For me, the biggest thing that has made a difference has been working to take care of my own emotional needs, working on my 180s, GAL and seeking the support of friends, and (important) setting clear boundaries about behaviour I will not tolerate from H. It's been a work in progress.
HB, welcome and sorry you are here. Please read all of cadets links, there is invaluable information in there for the LBS. You will get lots of support on your sitch from many folks that have been there before.
Hang in there, focus on you, and GAL. Detachment is key. Try to get to a place where his words and deeds have no impact on you emotionally. It is hard but if you do that well the results will be unmatched.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Hello Mrs HB,
Can you tell me if you're ready to set a firm boundary in regards to his extramarital, hopefully only emotional affair? If you are, him engaging in it further really leaves you with two reactions: divorce or separation. If you aren't there, and I'm assuming you aren't, then the best course would be to look out for yourself first in every way possible, detach from him emotionally, and go GAL. Simple but hard. Your H is loving attention from multiple women. Why? B/c he just felt like a player, so cool, so attractive. On some level, she is meeting one of his emotional needs. If and when you start to pull away and stop pursuing him, he will try to get you back in line. So be prepared. Read other people's sitches. It's all a fairly predictable cycle.
I'm very sorry to see you're here, but keep posting and we'll tell you what we think. We've been through this. And remember, nothing needs an immediate answer. Nothing. You can always post a question here before responding to him.
Everything is counter-intuitive. Everything is fair in love and war.
The firm boundaries ovrrnbw mentioned above work. The firmer and sooner the better. We can help draft up your "script". Let us know.
think about these statements:
"I do not want to be with a man who wants to be with other woman"
"I will not share my man with other woman"
"I want to be with a man who wants to be only with me"
Everything is counter-intuitive. Everything is fair in love and war.
The firm boundaries ovrrnbw mentioned above work. The firmer and sooner the better. We can help draft up your "script". Let us know.
think about these statements:
"I do not want to be with a man who wants to be with other woman"
"I will not share my man with other woman"
"I want to be with a man who wants to be only with me"
Thank you everyone for the support already!
I need to set up boundaries but have no idea what. I don't plan on divorcing H, I prefer to work things out and hopefully end up with a marriage that was better than before. I feel like my H is a good person who made a bad choice. I took my vows seriously and want to try to save the marriage, if it can be saved.
I do believe that H is depressed, and has been for the past 7 years or so. I've mentioned that he should see a doctor but he does not want to. With that being said, I do have to be careful with what I say to him.
I would like to hear some ideas on boundaries and a script.
OK, so you're not ready to divorce or separate, that's fine. Take your space. You may need time to respond to things he says, don't allow yourself to be bullied into speaking before you are ready. If he pressures, you leave the room or house. You need to be able to feel free to GAL without him snooping and worrying, after all he loves OW, no?
Another boundary is to not listen to him lying anymore. Just stop him and tell him that it's incredibly insulting/disgusting/etc and walk the F away.
Don't go running up to him out of the blue and profess your boundaries either, just make them clear as the issue(s) arise.
What boundaries do you think are good for now?
For the first time in about 3 months, H called me honey. The stomach bug has been going through the house, he just recovered from it and now I'm sick. He said it twice..."How do you feel honey? and before he left for work, "I hope you feel better honey."
I know I'm not supposed to believe what he says, but it was noticed and felt nice.
What boundaries do you think are good for now?
That's the thing, I don't know what needs boundaries. He's not ugly towards me or the kids. He takes care of things around the house and he takes care of us, more than before. I did address his accusing me of acting a certain way to make me look bad and the OW look good. Since Sunday he has made an effort to be kinder and is talking to me more.
This is all so confusing! Ugh.
Thank you for showing me this! I'll take the time to read through it.
So what can I do to encourage the EA to end? I know I have no control over it or what he does, but are there things that other have said or done to make it end?
So what can I do to encourage the EA to end? I know I have no control over it or what he does, but are there things that other have said or done to make it end?
Work on become the best, most attractive YOU you can.
As for words, this stands out:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1868673#Post1868673Remember, timing is key. Most do things at the wrong time and the wrong order. Best you can do is read as much as you can. Use DR as a launch pad for your personal growth during this most difficult sitch. I was consuming 2-3 self help books a week.
Read this:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094
[quote=Ready2Change] Work on become the best, most attractive YOU you can. [/quoted]
How do you get past the anger? The wanting to hit H on the side of the head as he ignores everyone in the family and is fixed on his phone?
He started a movie after dinner for the family to watch, but instead spent the whole time chatting with the OW. So, I got up and left him and the kids I'm the living room while I spent time alone in the bedroom.
How do you get past the anger? The wanting to hit H on the side of the head as he ignores everyone in the family and is fixed on his phone?
Anger is a response to weak boundaries.
H, When you...I feel...if you...I will....
You set and enforce your personal boundaries. Most of us here had weak boundaries in the M.
When I am angry, I channel that raw energy into proactive work.
Forgiveness is the other side.
Everything happens for reason. Sometimes we don't like or understand what we are to learn from an experience.
So you leaving the room is one of your boundaries.
When you text OW while in my presents I feel disrespected and angry. If you continue to text her in my presence, I will go to my room.
Others have stronger boundaries:
When you text OW while in my presents I feel disrespected and angry. If you text her in my presence, I will bring it to your attention how disrespectful that is and ask you to do that away from the home.
Others have even stronger boundaries:
"If you continue your affair, I will file for divorce."
R2C, thank you. I'm starting to understand!
You teach people how to treat you. Boundaries are even more powerful if you state them to people.
I'm having a hard time today keeping my thoughts to myself. I asked H why all of the sudden he changed the type of music he listens to (he has always listened to Christian music and has in the past made me feel bad for not always listening to Christian radio). He pointed out that I don't always listen to CR and that he just wants a change and that he used to listen to other stations before. I replied with, "okay, I was just curious." Of course my mind is racing and thinking that he is doing his best to separate himself from God since it won't make his conscience feel guilty or that he listening to music that the OW likes.
Also, he has started cussing a lot too, which is out of character for him.
I just pray that I get my husband back some day instead of this new person I'm having to deal with. 🙄
Just accept that he is gone and it will be easier to move forward and do the things you need to do to heal, learn, grow and detach.
Sorry though, I know that feeling. It stinks big time but you are also overthinking it. Every WAS starts toacts different in some ways.
Just accept that he is gone and it will be easier to move forward and do the things you need to do to heal, learn, grow and detach.
Sorry though, I know that feeling. It stinks big time but you are also overthinking it. Every WAS starts toacts different in some ways.
You are right, I need to realize that he is gone. A part of me wants to save him, but I have to let him fail on his own. To not be there and help him out.
All which is difficult.
Question...
H is always saying that he is tired. I usually reply with, "I'm sorry" or if he had a busy day, "You were busy today." He tends to say this after he is done chatting with the OW. He wakes up very early during the work week to chat with the OW while she gets ready for work. So he is up almost 2 sometimes 3 hours before work. So yeah, he is tired!
Do I need to validate his comment? If so, how?
Anyone with advice for message above?
We had a good day yesterday doing family stuff. The kids had fun and so did I. H shared every moment with the OW by sending her plenty of pictures of himself and the kids. H ran out of cell phone data, so he bought some more and claimed that he ran out b/c all the photos that were uploading that he didn't realize was doing (could be true...but more so because he kept texting OW).
Lately he has been talking to me more...the anger he has towards me is fading. I'm still the enemy though because I stand in the way of his happiness with his soulmate, I'm sure.
I need to detach some more....his words no longer affect me but I always wonder why he said what he said. I need more help with validating and 180. He has noticed my 180 and mentioned 2 months ago that I was trying to compete with the OW. "Oh honey, no, she is competing with me, dear."
Hi HB_Wife.
I wrote a freakin long text about how you need to step up and dont involve yourself in validation in regards to his life when it comes to his OW. And then my macbook decided to shut down.
I am not about to start over, so here is the TL:DR.
Do not, never, ever... validate your husband when he talks about OW, wtf.... Thats weak, and he won't respect you one inch as long as you do that. Be strong, be independent, and let him deal with his issues. Live for you and live in the present. Stop being the victim - Easy? no, doable? absolutely one day at a time...
Live your potential from today and onwards, dear...
Do not, never, ever... validate your husband when he talks about OW, wtf.... Thats weak, and he won't respect you one inch as long as you do that. Be strong, be independent, and let him deal with his issues.
He doesn't talk about the OW with me, which is good. He knows better. I see what you mean though. H saying that is tired... from living a double life, at least that's how I interpret it. Otherwise, I don't acknowledge anything relating to the OW. At one point, she got injured and it required her to go to the ER. One of her relatives texted my H from her phone letting him know what was going on. I did not say anything other than, "I bet that hurt." That response was before finding this site.
Yes, one day at a time.
Well, since I last posted a few things have happened...
H made a change in behavior and turned towards me and away from the OW. He finally could look into my eyes when talking, engaged and started conversations and was his happy self that left about 5 months ago. He would leave his phone alone for more than 5 mins. Things were looking promising and I thought maybe the affair was coming to an end. Well, the OW is back and H is depressed and his joy is gone. He is starting to be snippy with me and the kids again.
I so want to cuss the OW out and expose the affair, but I know that is wrong and not helpful.
How do you know this is an EA and not PA? So your H is getting up 2 to 3 hours early each morning just to chat with OW? And you put up with this?? He is a cake-eater extraordinaire! My inclination is to tell you to kick him out, tell him you're not putting up with his crap anymore and you are done with his deplorable behavior. If you can't or don't want him out then at a minimum I would suggest going stone-cold dark on him. Don't do anything with him, don't cook for him, don't do his laundry, don't clean up after him. If he complains then tell him to put on his big boy panties and take care of himself, because clearly he doesn't want you as his W anymore and you sure as hell aren't his maid or mom. He's acting out like a rebellious teen and I'm sure I don't have to tell you what happens when you smile and pretend everything is OK when a teen is acting out. They will RAILROAD you. Same thing with him.
Do not validate his feelings or whats happening with OW. Do not validate anything bad he says about you or any put downs he throws your way.
I keep my validation to only specific situations. When the WW is complaining that I did something to make her feel a certain way I just say "I am sorry you feel that way". If she says she is tired I use the same thing "I am sorry". I don't initiate conversation at all with her.
If she says hi and bye I will say it back, otherwise I am a ghost. I have no desire to even be around my WW.
Validation is a very difficult thing for me to master, but I have done a good job thanks to these forums. I just need to make sure I don't validate lies, re-writing history etc.
Do not validate his feelings or whats happening with OW. Do not validate anything bad he says about you or any put downs he throws your way.
I am not validating anything regarding the EA. H doesn't talk about her with me, which is very wise!
I need to let the EA run it's course, but it stinks waiting it out. I just want to expose her, so that she will stop pursuing H. It almost feels like he is waiting for me to do something to make it stop because he can't do it himself and thus not directly hurting the OW. What an entanglement.
I need to let the EA run it's course, but it stinks waiting it out.
This isn't a waiting game. As long as you let him cake-eat he will continue to do so. If he and OW stop talking then rest assured there will be OW2 or 3 or 4 waiting in the wings.
I just want to expose her, so that she will stop pursuing H.
Won't work. It almost always drives the WAS and OP closer together. It makes them feel like it's "them against the world", like they are a team. Your beef is with H, not OW. If he's sitting there with a big smile on his face texting OW you should make his life miserable. Tell him to go in the backyard if he wants to do that crap.
I need to let the EA run it's course,
Boundaries are better than waiting.
Everyone here is right and the advice given is tough love. I suppose fear is causing me to not follow through and set boundaries. I don't know why I'm frozen with such fear.
His behavior is not fair to me or the kids. We deserve better...not to say that it can't be H, but it needs to be a new and improved version of him.
😞
Can someone help me with what to say exactly, so I don't fumble with my words and mess it up?
How do you know this is an EA and not PA? So your H is getting up 2 to 3 hours early each morning just to chat with OW? .
At the beginning of the affair he did. Just in the past week or two he stopped waking up super early. He sleeps in and rarely checks his phone in the morning.
It is just an EA because the OW lives in another state.
It is just an EA because the OW lives in another state.
You know this for fact?
It is just an EA because the OW lives in another state.
You know this for fact?
No, I don't, but there isn't indication that she has traveled over 700 miles to see my husband and neither has he.
I just re-read your thread (sorry I can't keep everyone’s story’s straight).
So you have had time to read the boundary thread and have several examples.
The best thing you can do is draft up what you want to say, post it here for review. We can help tweak it. Then you can practice it alone. Then say it when ready.
I just re-read your thread (sorry I can't keep everyone’s story’s straight).
That's okay, there is a lot of us here.
Here's what I want to say:
"When you continue to have contact with her, I feel disrespected. If you continue the relationship with her, then I'll have to consider my options."
I think the hardest part will be having to explain my options if he asks. I don't plan on leaving the house or the kids. The option would be asking him to leave.
I feel like my feelings don't matter to him. That he thinks that I can remain quiet and happy with the current situation. He honestly doesn't want to hurt her feelings and doesn't think too much about mine because I'll stick around.
I want to tell him how he is robbing his family of joy and attention. Poor kids just see him on his phone all the time and get ignored often.
"When you continue to have contact with her, I feel disrespected. If you continue the relationship with her, then I'll have to consider my options."
I think the hardest part will be having to explain my options if he asks. I don't plan on leaving the house or the kids. The option would be asking him to leave.
"When you act like you are single while you are still married to me, I feel highly disrespected. If you want to disrespect me and our marriage, I believe it is best if you move out and do that from your own place. I do not want to live in an open marriage."
I'm trying to go dark...right now I'm gray. H is pursuing. What do I do?
Also, this there a thread on cake eating?
Thank you! I'm going to read it now.
Wow, the last stitch sounds like mine. I will continue to follow and post updates here. Thank you.
I came across this today and thought it was appropriate for all of us going through this mess.
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, [the spouse I once knew] the courage to change the things I can [myself...the power I have and self respect] and the wisdom to know the difference.
Yes. The Serenity Prayer. I have it pasted in my journal, and pray it often. It's known mostly for what you posted here, but there is more. Here is the entire prayer. I think the additional words are very wise.
God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace;
Taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is; Not as I would have it;
Trusting that you will make all thing right if i surrender to your will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with you forever in the next.
Amen
Peace to you on your journey.
Grace
Yes. The Serenity Prayer. I have it pasted in my journal, and pray it often. It's known mostly for what you posted here, but there is more. Here is the entire prayer. I think the additional words are very wise.
God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time, enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardship as a pathway to peace;
Taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is; Not as I would have it;
Trusting that you will make all thing right if i surrender to your will;
So that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with you forever in the next.
Amen
Peace to you on your journey.
Grace
Thank you for sharing the whole prayer. I did not know there was more. I am going to keep it in my journal as well.
A year ago today is when it all started. The OW had a loss in her family and went to her online friends looking for comfort. Of course, who happened to be on the computer at the same time,? My H. Being the friendly and encouraging guy he is, he gave her the strength she needed to overcome this tough period in her life. That's made her fall in love with him...and he did not stop himself.
I am not saying much today. Keeping myself busy and trying to be happy. In the back of my mind I want to say something mean regarding how "proud" her loved one is seeing what she has done (have an affair), but I'll just think it and not say it. Ugh.
H has changed in the past few weeks. Going from being super chatty and joyful at the beginning of the month to now being distracted and distant again. He has spent less time with his phone in his hands, but right at Easter he picked up the bad habit again.
Lately he is not doing much around the house. I'm keeping busy but leaving a mess as well so that I'm not stuck with all the housework while he relaxes.
Is this normal behavior?
HBW, I am noticing the same changes in my H. The past few days he has been very distant, almost cold. Friday he was texting me and bringing me home dinner, hanging around me a lot, and by Sunday he was barely talking to me. I think he was angry that I spent my day out and about on Saturday and gave him little details as to where I was. He was upset that I wasn't home in the afternoon. Why? Why would he care? Perhaps my H is just sulking and angry, perhaps it's something else. Who knows!
I think from what I have been reading around the forum this type of behavior is typical, but who knows, I am so new at this! I feel like I continue to try and read into everything WAY too much.
Good for you for not cleaning up after him! I feel like the WAS acts entitled at times, just sitting back and relaxing, trying to take space and figure things out while we are left to literally clean up the mess!
Thank you CSL. I'm glad to know that someone is going through the same thing at the same time!
I too try to over analyze everything. I need to not worry so much about it, bit that's easier said than done because I have not detached all the way yet.
Today a package came. I have not seen the package but know that it came from a fancy department store. A store neither H or I shop at. Is the OW sending him something? Is it a Mother's Day gift? What in the world is it?
I bought the Divorce Remedy book. Time to start reading!
Need advice.
H always says that he is never allowed to decide anything. DD's phone was taken away from him b/c of her grades. I allowed her to have her phone on a school field trip and he was not too happy. I should have asked him permission but I didn't. Now DD is going away for the weekend, she called her dad to ask if she could take her phone and he told her to ask me because I'm the boss. How do I respond?? I feel like he can tell her no himself, but wants to put the pressure on me and if I say yes, he will keep playing the "I never get a say in anything" card. Help!!!!
Call him and apologize for not including him in the decision. Then make a joint decision on what’s best moving forward.
Discuss it with H. Make a joint decision. If you both disagree about the phone, let H make the final decision.
Discuss it with H. Make a joint decision. If you both disagree about the phone, let H make the final decision.
Thank you for the advice. I did not let her take her phone because her grades have not improved.
I'm rather mad right now because H did not share the important emails regarding DD trip and I did not have an important form that needed to turned in. Luckily I was able to text the information to the leader. I was embarrassed because the leader asked if we had gotten his emails regarding the trip and I said that I did not, maybe H had but not me. I swear H spends more time telling the OW about "everyday things" that he forgets who he tells!
Call him and apologize for not including him in the decision. Then make a joint decision on what’s best moving forward.
The problem is that he basically does not want to decide anything. He uses the phrase "I don't get to make decisions around here" as an excuse to not decide on things. Of course the one and only thing he has ever made clear is that he "will not stop talking to her!" Otherwise, he gives up and shows weakness.
I would agree here.
But don't allow him to use the passive/aggressive response stuff "I don't get to make decisions around here."
Let him know you could have done a better job of including him and you'd like to partner with him for the decisions about your DD.
I would agree here.
But don't allow him to use the passive/aggressive response stuff "I don't get to make decisions around here."
Let him know you could have done a better job of including him and you'd like to partner with him for the decisions about your DD.
Thank you. He has pretty much always been like that. Letting other people "tell him what to do and where to be when." He plays that card with his mom and dad too. Now it gives the OW a chance to feel even more sorry for him and the horrible life he is living and how she has rescued him! Blah, blah, blah. He pretty much has told her that he has NEVER had a say in what he wants...i.e. buying our house, having friends, whether or not to do family stuff, his job. He said he gave up years ago. He's the victim (which I feel sorry for him) and that's why he wants to leave us for his soulmate, but he is stuck. Basically he'll stick around until the kids grow up and leave the house.
So folks, that's what I am dealing with.
I'm noticing a pattern here. Every Saturday H gets up around 5am to go get doughnuts for the kids. He's been doing it for several weeks now. I'm pretty sure he leaves so he can talk to the OW on the phone on her way to work. This behavior mimics what happened around the start of the affair when I was none the wiser. Back then when I questioned him why be was out in his car for hours he said because his friend was driving home and needed someone to talk to to stay away. When I asked why her husband wasn't doing this, H responded that they were having a hard time as a married couple. That comment made me start to question their friendship.
So do I let this "doughnut getting for the kids" behavior go because I'm supposed to let him go or do I say something? If so, what?
This morning on the way to church H whips out his phone while driving and says he is checking his notifications and I ask who is sending you a message?! He tells me it's the OW and knows that it would make me mad. I paused and knew this was the time to say something. I said that she consumes his time and he rather spend it with her than have a relationship with us (me and the kids). I told him that he is an adult and he makes his choices to continue the affair, but I don't want to share my husband with another woman. I don't want an open relationship/marriage. He responded saying he did not want to talk about it. That's his usual defense..."I don't want to talk about it." As soon as we get to church he stays in the car to send her a message.
Well I thought I was making progress in detaching but even though I calmly I expressed my feelings, I was hurt and silently cried on the car ride.
I made sure to use the word "affair" when talking about him and the OW because he has denied their friendship being an affair. Umm, married people don't tell other people of the opposite sex that you love them and are meant to be together.
What's my next step?
A crossroad has emerged in front of you...
One way leads you down the path, where you are passively awaiting him suddenly seeing the light, while you get more and more depressed and waste your life in the process..
The other roads sets a boundary in accordance to that statement you made in the car: "I will not share my husband with another woman". His response "I dont want to talk about it" <-- Let me translate.. "I know, that you dont have the courage to stand up to my complete and utter lack of respect towards you, so as long as I can have my family, and OW on the side, hell I am not about to change anything..." <--- You made a statement, but you need to figure out if you are willing to back it up.... Its nothing but empty words unless and until you show him that you are done with his absolute pathetic way of treating you.
A crossroad has emerged in front of you...
One way leads you down the path, where you are passively awaiting him suddenly seeing the light, while you get more and more depressed and waste your life in the process..
The other roads sets a boundary in accordance to that statement you made in the car: "I will not share my husband with another woman". His response "I dont want to talk about it" <-- Let me translate.. "I know, that you dont have the courage to stand up to my complete and utter lack of respect towards you, so as long as I can have my family, and OW on the side, hell I am not about to change anything..." <--- You made a statement, but you need to figure out if you are willing to back it up.... Its nothing but empty words unless and until you show him that you are done with his absolute pathetic way of treating you.
Very powerful words there that speak the truth. I have been trying to wait it out, to ignore his behavior and move on but the affair has not ended like I thought it would.
So now that he is aware that I will not share him or have an open relationship how do I proceed without being a controlling B?
So now that he is aware that I will not share him or have an open relationship how do I proceed without being a controlling B?
Read this thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2039619&page=1Read everything up to this important post:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2085371#Post2085371Pay close attention for RobX quote that contains "look I get it, you don't want to be with me anymore"
Take notes. Come up with a plan. Share your plan with us. Let us review, then execute the plan.
Thank you Ready2Change. I will read both posts, think about it and make a plan.
After service today we came home and had lunch. H has been very sweet and kind. Looking into my eyes when I speak. It's weird. It's like the conversation I had with him changed his behavior a bit because he knows I'm not happy with him and his continued "friendship".
Sorry for all the dumb questions...
I have stopped calling to check on his day. What do I say when he asks why I haven't called? I want to say something to the effect of "I don't have much to say while she has your attention. You reach to her constantly. I don't want to share your time with her."
Perhaps he'll now see how hard it will be to keep two women happy at the same time. However my happiness is not dependent on him.
What do I say when he asks why I haven't called?
W:"I have been busy"
Update:
Got home this evening and H is alone in the bedroom. He has been giving me the silent treatment. I can see he is upset that I did not call him at all today.
He is very good at holding grudges and initiating the silent treatment. In fact one of his family members went several months not talking to their own mother.
Not sure what waters I have stirred up, but I hope it's causing him to think and know that I am not okay with his affair.
He is sleeping on the couch tonight. I got out of the shower and he moved to the couch. I finished getting ready for bed and did not ask why he moved.
I hope I can sleep tonight.
He ended coming to bed after he realized I wasn't coming to see why he left the MB. He looks unhappy this morning and won't speak to me. I avoided doing my morning phone call to him again. He can call me if he wants to see how my day is going.
I am having lunch with a girlfriend today. 😁
What do I say when he asks why I haven't called?
W:"I have been busy"
He never asked why I didn't call. Giving me the silent treatment. Typical response.
This is a great opportunity for you to practice detachment, also called differentiation.
He is in a mood. It is not your fault, and it is not your job to fix it. Don’t let his mood affect yours.
Have a great lunch with your friend.
And repeat after me, “not my circus; not my monkeys.”
He ended coming to bed after he realized I wasn't coming to see why he left the MB. He looks unhappy this morning and won't speak to me. I avoided doing my morning phone call to him again. He can call me if he wants to see how my day is going.
I am having lunch with a girlfriend today.
Wow he sounds EXTREMELY passive/aggressive. Does he play up the "nice guy" routine around others? Everyone you know would say he's a super nice guy, but behind closed doors when no one is around he treats you like a leper? He'll eventually do the same thing to OW, but right now he's on his best behavior. She's being fooled by the "nice guy" facade.
And repeat after me, “not my circus; not my monkeys.”
That made me laugh out loud! I feel like I'm living in a circus!
Does he play up the "nice guy" routine around others? Everyone you know would say he's a super nice guy, but behind closed doors when no one is around he treats you like a leper? He'll eventually do the same thing to OW, but right now he's on his best behavior. She's being fooled by the "nice guy" facade.
He is a nice guy, at least the man I married was. When the affair first started I was treated like a leper. Yep,she doesn't know his depressive side. I'm sure he doesn't see her faults too. Her marriage isn't that great either. To him, she is so shiny!
Ended up having a good lunch with my girlfriend yesterday. Took my time getting home, which I no longer rush to get there. H seemed to be out of the funk he was in the day before. He made dinner (usually does) and cleaned up afterwards. I tidied up and cleaned one of the kid's room. That inspired the other kids to work on their room.
This morning before heading out the door He thanked me for packing lunches. I told him you're welcome and then he reponded with "you're welcome for breakfast." I did not thank him, so he made sure he made me feel ungrateful. I said nothing.
It's only day 3 of trying to move on and I'm worn out. I feel defeated.
I wish I had some words of advice for you, but I am so new at this, I'm not sure I am doing the right thing most of the time....
But, I do want to offer you support. The job of the LBS is so hard....
Ended up having a good lunch with my girlfriend yesterday. Took my time getting home, which I no longer rush to get there. H seemed to be out of the funk he was in the day before. He made dinner (usually does) and cleaned up afterwards. I tidied up and cleaned one of the kid's room. That inspired the other kids to work on their room.
This morning before heading out the door He thanked me for packing lunches. I told him you're welcome and then he reponded with "you're welcome for breakfast." I did not thank him, so he made sure he made me feel ungrateful. I said nothing.
It's only day 3 of trying to move on and I'm worn out. I feel defeated.
Its ok to say "Thank you" when they do something for you. However, if you don't feel like it or feel taken for granted then you don't have to. I barely talk to my STBXWW. So don't feel bad.
CSL- you're strength amazes me! You are doing a great job! I am following your stitch and am here to support you as well.
SoTorn- yes, I don't always feel like I "have" to say thank you to him, but he is apparently expecting it! I feel that even though I don't say the words, it doesn't mean my heart is ungrateful, but if needs to hear it to make himself feel better than I will thank the heck out of everything just to avoid conflict and being seen as "ugly." Wise DBers, is that correct?
How does one GAL with young kids at home? I don't want to be accused of abandoning the kids to do my own thing. Do I ask H to watch the kids or do I make plans, announce I'm leaving and go?
How does one GAL with young kids at home? I don't want to be accused of abandoning the kids to do my own thing. Do I ask H to watch the kids or do I make plans, announce I'm leaving and go?
How old are your kids?
Personally, I think it is extremely rude for one parent to make plans and just assume the other parent will watch the kids. Some GAL activities can include the kids. For the others, I would tell H you have plans on X day at Y time and ask if he will be around to take care of the kids. If yes, great. If not, get a babysitter.
It wouldn't hurt to have a back up plan for if he says he can watch them and then isn't around when you need to leave.
If that happens, I would switch in the future to telling H you are going out and have arranged for a babysitter (although probably better if it's for someone who can watch the kids at his or her house, because it could get awkward if H is home at the same time as the sitter).
How does one GAL with young kids at home? I don't want to be accused of abandoning the kids to do my own thing. Do I ask H to watch the kids or do I make plans, announce I'm leaving and go?
How old are your kids?
Personally, I think it is extremely rude for one parent to make plans and just assume the other parent will watch the kids. Some GAL activities can include the kids. For the others, I would tell H you have plans on X day at Y time and ask if he will be around to take care of the kids. If yes, great. If not, get a babysitter.
It wouldn't hurt to have a back up plan for if he says he can watch them and then isn't around when you need to leave.
If that happens, I would switch in the future to telling H you are going out and have arranged for a babysitter (although probably better if it's for someone who can watch the kids at his or her house, because it could get awkward if H is home at the same time as the sitter).
Elementary school age. I understand what you mean, it would be rude. Right now H announces he is running an errand for XYZ reason and he'll be back. He leaves and returns about 1-2 hours later and I'm left at home with the kids.
It's really hard being the 'defauilt' parent, isn't it? I have a bit of resentment myself in that I need to make special arrangements for childcare or for H to be in the house so I can go out at night and GAL, but the assumption is he's a free agent and can do as he pleases unless we specifically arrange this otherwise. I've tried to raise this with him but it hasn't been successful.
What has helped is for me just to imagine that he's totally out of the picture - that he doesn't exist. I make my own plans, arrange my own childcare, and if he does agree to take the kids, I always have a plan 'b'. I don't think he likes that much, but short of stepping up and collaborating with me more fully, that's the way it is. It has helped.
Most of my GAL is with the kids though. We get out and about to all kinds of new places and it doesn't cost much. We've had walks and picnics and trips out to museums and all sorts. I see my friends during the day when they are at school and invite friends to come and see me in the evenings when they are in bed or occupied on their own projects.
As you and your H live together, I don't think there's anything wrong with you just informing him that on thursday night, or whatever, you're going out between 7 and 10pm. If you believe he is safe and trustworthy to look after his children, I think it is perfectly fine to assume that he will do that 50% of the time and that you will have free leisure time as he does. He may well accuse you of abandoning the kids and he may well sulk and give you the silent treatment. So what? He's an adulterer. What does it matter what he thinks of you taking some time for yourself and leaving your children in the care of their loving father?
Thank you Alison UK. Very true about not worrying what he thinks considering what he is doing is much worse!
I think that's such a huge part of detachment. I know when my H first moved out I was terrified of arranging childminders because I knew he didn't like it, and I didn't want to do anything at all he didn't like because I was scared of driving him away. I have a long way to go with detachment, but on this issue he doesn't have a leg to stand on and he knows it. I arrange whatever childcare I need without reference to his opinions because my needs come first and I can't be a good mother to those children if I am in sole charge of them 24/7. I need that time for myself and I will take it. I hope you can get to that place too.
I have two minor kids. Granted they are 12 and 16. However, I make plans with them. Take them to the movies, gokarting, dinner etc. I make a lot of plans that include my kids and also by myself. I make sure my kids spend time with my WW because they need their mom, even if she is the cause of our family being destroyed.
I have two minor kids. Granted they are 12 and 16. However, I make plans with them. Take them to the movies, gokarting, dinner etc. I make a lot of plans that include my kids and also by myself. I make sure my kids spend time with my WW because they need their mom, even if she is the cause of our family being destroyed.
That is good. My kids are always included in what I do. I can just see H getting mad because I have used the kids as pawns to drive them away from him. He will resent that, even though it's just me and the kids getting out of the house away from him.
I think that's such a huge part of detachment. I know when my H first moved out I was terrified of arranging childminders because I knew he didn't like it, and I didn't want to do anything at all he didn't like because I was scared of driving him away. I have a long way to go with detachment, but on this issue he doesn't have a leg to stand on and he knows it. I arrange whatever childcare I need without reference to his opinions because my needs come first and I can't be a good mother to those children if I am in sole charge of them 24/7. I need that time for myself and I will take it. I hope you can get to that place too.
I totally agree with you, parents need time for themselves. Right now we do everything together as a family.
Had issues with my car last night and H offered ( on his own) to look at it. Today he is going to get a part to fix it. I told him I appreciated it and thanked him in advance.
I'm going to go out this weekend on my own to find something nice to wear for Mother's Day. I'll ask H if he can watch the kids while I go run an errand. Hopefully he will say yes. I guess if he says no, I'll take the kids with me.
Questions about deflecting intimacy....what does one say when WS tries to put the moves on you? I would like to say that I can't because I feel like I am cheating with the OW boyfriend. I know that sounds very harsh, so what's a better way to say no? Or that appropriate wording?
Fill in the blanks:
When you.....
I feel....
If you.....
I will.....
If you continue....
I will....
Post it here and we can give feedback.
How does one GAL with young kids at home? I don't want to be accused of abandoning the kids to do my own thing. Do I ask H to watch the kids or do I make plans, announce I'm leaving and go?
How old are your kids?
Personally, I think it is extremely rude for one parent to make plans and just assume the other parent will watch the kids.
I take it you haven't met my wayward wife then!
It is challenging, and maybe my experience will be a cautionary tale. We have a 2-year-old and little extra money for a babysitter, and D2 is terrible around people outside her very tight inner circle anyway. So when one of us goes out, the other is almost always home with D2.
Since the start of 2019 my W has wanted to go out just about all the time. On a work/school trip (she works in a school) in February, she befriended a colleague she didn't know before. They are inseparable since and it seems my W would go out with her every single night if not for pesky D2. For a few weeks she was grabbing every opportunity to go out and just leaving D2 with me. It made it very hard for me to GAL.
After she went out with no notice to me at all, I told her we needed to put things on a calendar in advance. That became her scrambling to fill in every night on the calendar possible before I could, and me trying to beat her to the punch, an escalating arms race of GAL.
I felt D2 was a casualty in this, as we scrambled to grab chances to go out and make sure we "got ours." It felt dirty to me. Of course, I don't want any of this. I do believe W needed a break from the way things were, and it would have been healthy for each of us to carve out some individual time while having plenty of together time, the 2 of us and the 3 of us as a family. It looks like that ship has sailed.
Eventually, to have some sort of balance I said W could have Mon-Wed-Fri and i would take Tue-Thurs-Sat. We could request to switch off if there is a good reason. Predictably, W asks regularly if I'm "doing anything" on my days and, if I don't have something specific planned, she wants to grab my days as well. Plus she's managed to be out every Sunday. Some family day of rest!
I didn't want to go back to square one, with her out and me home all the time. So I started making sure to find something to do on "my" days. Not out of spite, but because I really do need some space and to GAL. Putting some limits on her endless cake eating didn't hurt.
My H just said that he wanted to talk to me. He said he wants to make the weekend of June x his vacation. I said okay what do you have planned? He said, " you know where I want to go." My heart dropped. He is going to meet her. I said why? But he kept insisting that he wants to meet her. I kept cool at first and then I told him to stop lying to me. That I know all about their so called friendship. I cussed at him. I asked if we were over. He stayed quiet and then said he would not go. I told.him he can make his own choices but I will not give my blessing. I told.him I have remained quiet for. Long to time but if he goes I will talk.
I'm shaking right now. Crying. Even though I closed our door the kids know something is up and DD #2 asked what's wrong. I told her not to worry. DD#1 has been texting me and comforting me.
Please God help!!!!
Keep your head up. Remember boundaries.
Focus on yourself. Go do something for yourself and take D with you.
Keep your head up. Remember boundaries.
Focus on yourself. Go do something for yourself and take D with you.
It happened right before bedtime. I hope she can sleep well.
I told him to stop lying to us. What boundary do I make?
I set him free and told him to do what he wants, but the consequence will be me speaking out and making the affair known.
If he does go he will need to find somewhere else to go when he comes back.
"If you choose her over our family, you will need to find somewhere else to live. I will not be in an open marriage."
What do I say now that he said he won't go?
"I will no longer tolerate your lies nor your relationship with her. If you continue to text her I will ask you to leave."
"When you text OW while you are married to me, I feel completely disrespected. If you continue to bla bla bla in my presence, I will confront you and share my feelings with you. If your behavior doesn't change, I will have some tough decisions to make.":
"When you text OW while you are married to me, I feel completely disrespected. If you continue to bla bla bla in my presence, I will confront you and share my feelings with you. If your behavior doesn't change, I will have some tough decisions to make.":
Perfect. Thank you. I'm reading a through the links you shared. One is Allen's regarding exposure. I believe this affair needs to be suffocated. Should I expose or is it too late? Can that be part of the "decision I will have to make?"
Can I change the boundary statement to say that all contact needs to end?
To H? You already did:
"He said, " you know where I want to go." My heart dropped. He is going to meet her. I said why? But he kept insisting that he wants to meet her. I kept cool at first and then I told him to stop lying to me. That I know all about their so called friendship."
If you mean to others, then no, he'll just see it as you trying to throw him under the bus. They'll eventually find out anyway.
Trying my best to have a happy family vacation while H spends most of the day chatting with the OW or tries to find a reason to go shopping for about 2 hours EVERY day we've been here.
I'm being upbeat around the kids and letting them enjoy their vacation too. It stinks that their dad doesn't really care to make memories with his family. Instead he takes selfies and photos of the kids to sent to the OW.
I've had to really focus on self control and not contact the OW and tell her that she is not invited on our family vacation.
I'm GAL while here even though I have the kids with me the whole time. I would love to walk on the beach alone, which I plan on asking H to watch the kids tonight. He is not leaving the rental because it takes forever to get back because of the holiday.
Please start a new thread and link both threads together. You've reached the 100 posting/reply limit.