I am nervous to post this. I have been lurking since August 2017. After being out of the country for 3 months, found out that H had a consult with divorce atty. Asked him about it and he did the typical ILYB and a whole list of my faults. I listened, didn't argue (much!) and said, "nope. we are not doing this. let's slow down and take some time". He said he was surprised that I wasn't relieved. (M wasn't super when I left, but we communicated our love for each other while i was away, spoke every day).
Lots of tears (on both our parts). I set up an appointment with a counselor - who send me for EMDR for previous trauma (best experience of my life!). While I was going to my IC, H went a couple of times to IC of his own (the one I had set up). H said that he never knew what to talk about.
Just before Christmas 2017, he said he was going to file after the 1st of the year. I cried but didn't argue. Stated that I thought it was a bad idea. He never filed but moved out of the MBR. Continued on like that until Feb 2019. Moved into furnished apartment (short-term lease). Said he couldn't make a D or R decision while living with me.
Comes over every day or at least every other day. We have a ranch, he feeds the cows etc with me. S17 runs hot/cold toward him and when he's cold, H attempts to take it out on me. I have since learned how to navigate that, thanks to all of you on this forum with the validation statements.
I GAL, I have detached, but when I'm around I am friendly and a lot of fun. He enjoys my company and says he has loved me his whole life and always will. Still wants to go out with me, dancing and to friends houses. He has told NO ONE. Not even best friend. He acts like we are still the 'perfect couple'. He finds me very attractive but tries to make himself not have S with me. (says he doesn't want to use me). We have had mostly the same amount of S since the BD, but I have not initiated any of it. He calls/texts every day to talk, about everything but the R. I no longer initiate R conversations, but have told him that I'm here if he wants to talk. -I did add that I would no longer listen to a list of my faults/violations unless he was willing to work through them together. I listened for the first 6 months.
His drinking is off the charts. Now keeps a cooler full of beer when he drives. He is so sad and confused.
I am watching the love of my life disappear before me. I have confided in 3 friends that support my decision to DB, but our older children and their wives are now very upset because they now know he moved out.
Thank you for this community. I've never seen him like this. I try to stay in my own lane (for my own sanity). I am praying that this forum will be a good place for me to find comfort.
W45 (me), H41
M22
S27
S21
S17 (still at home with me)
BD August 2017
Moved out Feb 2019
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hello 97, you posted the following in another thread, I am copying it here to respond as we like for people to keep discussions about their own situations to a single thread to make it easier for us to track things:
I'm new so I apologize if I missed it somewhere, but my H likes to move back into the bedroom when the grown kids come and visit. Does anyone have any advice about that? I wondered if I should have told him to stay in the guest room, but like you, didn't want that to be the hill I die on.
Also, we have a trip planned to visit family, and he wants to share a room. I don't get any ideas that this is headed anywhere, we have traveled a lot since BD, and always share a bed, and sometimes he talks about R in positive ways, but I play it cool and don't let it give me hope. I stay on my island. Reality. It's safer here. TIA!
Is he doing that to "save face" with the kids? Do they not know about your sitch yet? In general the attitude is "I am staying in the MBR and bed, you sleep where you want." So if he wants to come and go then I wouldn't worry about it for now, but don't let him browbeat you into sleeping somewhere else.
Likewise I don't see the harm in sharing a bed for the trip.
Now sex is a different matter. Michele says there's no harm as long as you can do it without expectations, but most LBS's do find that it really messes with their head because it's hard not to get your hopes up. Plus a lot of the time you have no idea what the WAS is doing "out there" sexually and you might be opening yourself up to an STD (it's happened).
He said he was surprised that I wasn't relieved.
My XW said the same thing. She thought I wanted D as much as she did.
H went a couple of times to IC of his own (the one I had set up). H said that he never knew what to talk about.
I've never heard of IC helping save an M. Most counselors just listen and validate, so if he says he wants a D they're not going to try and talk him out of it.
I have since learned how to navigate that, thanks to all of you on this forum with the validation statements.
Awesome! It's good to know we're helping people even when they're not actively posting!
I GAL, I have detached, but when I'm around I am friendly and a lot of fun. He enjoys my company and says he has loved me his whole life and always will. Still wants to go out with me, dancing and to friends houses. He has told NO ONE. Not even best friend. He acts like we are still the 'perfect couple'. He finds me very attractive but tries to make himself not have S with me. (says he doesn't want to use me). We have had mostly the same amount of S since the BD, but I have not initiated any of it. He calls/texts every day to talk, about everything but the R. I no longer initiate R conversations, but have told him that I'm here if he wants to talk. -I did add that I would no longer listen to a list of my faults/violations unless he was willing to work through them together. I listened for the first 6 months.
Good! That all sounds perfect. You're showing him what he'll be missing, you're listening and validating, but you're also setting boundaries about not allowing him to blame you. Well done.
His drinking is off the charts. Now keeps a cooler full of beer when he drives. He is so sad and confused.
Wow that's a red flag. Sounds like he's engaging in risky, dangerous behavior. Is he still seeing the IC?
Thank you for this community. I've never seen him like this. I try to stay in my own lane (for my own sanity). I am praying that this forum will be a good place for me to find comfort.
Absolutely, you'll find lots of people here who have been through it or are going through it. Just try to remember this is more about him than it is you. He's on a roller coaster, so you need to be the rock now more than ever.
Welcome aboard Hope. I'm glad you found the courage to post. It's such a shame to see so many long term marriages going through this type of situation. I have a friend who was M almost 40 yrs and one night she got the bomb (as we call it) that he wasn't happy, didn't want to try & save it, etc. So, it's happening to many couples who have been together for many years. You'd think someone would find the perfect solution, right? Problem is......the spouse who wants out has his own free will, and usually some stubborn pride on the side. Anyway, you've come to the right place, and we'll try to help as much as we can.
Can you tell us more about your H? Has his work history been good, or has he jumped from job to job? How does he handle debt? Can you think of something that happened that could have made him turn to self medicate (drinking)? If he doesn't want anyone to know he's left the marital home, maybe he's covering something he thinks would hurt you badly. Like, for example.......a large gambling debt. You know how our men want to protect us about things of that nature. They think they'll find a way to take care of it, without the W getting upset. Any changing around at work?
Something effecting his retirement? You said you own a ranch, so does he do any work other than the ranch? Do you know if he went to see a doctor while you were gone? Has he struggled with ED issues?
I'm trying to think of what would make a H suddenly want to move out of his home. He still has emotional attachment to his W, and he wants people to see them as a perfect couple. Something is going on that he's not talking about, and it's driving him to drink more than usual. The things that come to my mind are:
1. His position at work has been replaced by a younger guy; there's been lay-offs; cut in pay; forced to retire early, etc.
2. He has acquired a huge debt and has no idea how to pay it off.
3. He has gotten himself in some serious legal trouble.
4. He has received bad news from the doctor.
5, There is another woman.
I set up an appointment with a counselor - who send me for EMDR for previous trauma (best experience of my life!).
I had to look this up, b/c I had no idea what it was. Now, I'm intrigued and will look at more after I send this post.
H said that he never knew what to talk about.
Does he have a hard time talking about his emotions? Has he ever kept things from you, b/c he didn't want you to worry?
In your opinion, does he seem angry, or does he appear to be worried? What were your arguments typically about?
The more you can share with us, the better we can see your situation. I hope you will continue to post.
Hello Stander. Thank you so much for linking my post and for taking the time to read my story!
I do believe he is saving face. The kids only recently know about the sitch. I have been careful not to involve them because I knew he didn't want me to, but they have raised a lot of questions recently and without going into details, I have let them in.
I don't mean to be weird, but I can definitely have S without expectations. If/when it becomes emotionally bad for me, I can def say no.
For sure he is engaging in risky, dangerous behavior. He is not seeing the IC. He stays in his apt when he isn't here and doesn't do much socially unless it's with me. The red flags began years ago, now I just see him free falling.
[quote]He's on a roller coaster, so you need to be the rock now more than ever.
AMEN!
Hi Sandi. Thank you so much!
His work history is incredible. If anything he doesn't ever rest!
Absolutely no debt. We have a ranch in addition to his full time job. We usually do all the ranching together with S17.
The big things that I think led him to self medicate are - my sister 50, passed away when we moved here 3 years ago, I already suffered from depression but she died within 6 months of her diagnosis (colon cancer). She and H were also very close. I was her caretaker, and when I came home after staying with her for her final 6 weeks, I was a mess. I went to school, came home and was not myself for about a year and 1/2. Which is the time-line he said that he gave up on me and my depression because he could not take my "cycles' anymore. He said that something in him just broke.
He had affairs back in 2010 and we did a recovery program, but I never really trusted him for the longest time. I knew he wasn't cheating, but I didn't like the way he acted around female co-workers, and some of them sent text messages to him that were inappropriate.
In addition, his uncle (who was his father figure) passed away the summer of the same year as my sister. H's dad left family when H was 7 y/o with 2 young brothers. Wasn't in his life until we got married. When I pointed out that H basically lost his 'dad', H seemed surprised (he didn't put 2+2 together)and that seemed to lead to some understanding. Same summer, H was deployed for 4 months and he lost a couple of people. Not friends, but I know that had to weigh heavily on him.
Post-deployment, our son was married and we weren't perfect, but things seemed to be shaping up. I was still reacting to texts between him and females, and blew up and said "i can't do this anymore, and I can't wait to leave!' (before I left the country for 3 months) so I can almost see where he didn't know who was coming home.
Ironically, I had a life-changing experience while gone and realized that I needed a lot of help to grieve and to heal. H has commented that my changes have come too late, although he is 'very happy for you, but jealous'. If I try and tell him how I was healed, he resents it, so I have left that alone.
There is no OW at this time, but it is a likely possibility if things don't turn around. He may have an Emotional OW, but since I don't know about it, I'm treating this sitch with the information I have.
I have gained a lot of understanding from another MLC site that other members have talked about here. I think that is the likely thing going on, but I really do try and not camp out in understanding why he's doing what he is doing, rather, focus on how I can be a good friend with healthy boundaries and a good role model for the kids.
I feel like I'm not alone. Thank you.
Just venting here. Two instances that H have done that seem similar and wondering who else deals with this and how. 1st time I was helping a friend at their restaurant where my S17 is working and my phone rang, He answered the phone said "It was H. He asked about rain and sounded pissy". I didn't call him back, was busy. Went home at 9:30 took shower, as I'm getting out I heard the phone again.
H: what did you tell S21?
W: I confirmed that you moved out.
H: blah blah he just crucified me
W: blah blah I'm sorry he was harsh with you, it sounds like he was upset that you haven't talked to him
H: I talk to him!
W: Ok. I don't want to argue.
end of convo.
I have decided that based on that and several similar convos that I will just use the bag of tricks that I found here on another thread and not discuss my convos with our grown kids.
Second ugly episode. H comes over frequently to help at the ranch. I asked him if all I needed to do for the following day was feed the horses and he replied "don't worry about it. I'll probably come over". This discussion took place as he was leaving for the night.
Next day, S17 and I went to lunch, ran errands and grocery shopped. Was fun. Returned home, H was there finishing up feeding. He was in a mood, so I smiled, said hello and went into the house. H and S stayed on front porch talking. I was in MBR sitting on bed and H knocked on door. Poked his head in and I said "I will be out in one minute". He said "it's ok, i'm taking off"
I receive a text 5 minutes later "please call me when you have a minute". I called him back and he was furious.
H: did you NOT remember me saying that I wanted to spend time with S17 when I came over today?
W: No. The convo as I remember it was "..."
H: I specifically said that I wanted to see him!
W: Did you let him know that?
H: Yes.
W: I can not be responsible for you and him getting together.
H: I am not asking you to!
W: In the future, work out time together with him. I promise not to interfere.
H: blah blah angry i told you this blah blah
W: Ok thank you. I have to go
These are typical convos in our R, however, only recently in the past year have I been able to (mostly) not get ticked off with him and yell back. And I am the queen of being ugly.
For a while I have known that he views me as the enemy, but I don't want a pattern to emerge where something he doesn't like goes down like this each time. Part of the process? Any tips from you old-timers? I realize this is about control, but my IC advised me not only not to let him have any power over me, but to get my own power back, i.e. letting him come and go to my own emotional detriment.
For sure, he is VERY controlling. Money, time, everything. I am only now willing/able to stand up for myself. But I know me...I don't trust that I can always be calm and rational when being blamed for something I didn't do, or treated like/spoken to like trash because his world isn't awesome. I was tempted to say "have another drink" which would be the lowest blow to him and not how I want to live anymore.
This dynamic is very familiar to me. I've tried various techniques to respond when I am being blamed for something unfairly. I say, 'what do you want to do about that' or 'I can see that really bothers you' or 'I can see you hold me responsible for that' as ways of showing empathy and rejecting responsibility, and they just tend to inflame the situation. The best results I get at the moment are to just end the conversation.
When H brings up the past to blame me for it, I don't point out my changes or his part in where things went wrong. I say 'yes, I think you're right, there are many things I need to change about myself. The one thing I can't change is the past and how that has affected you and our relationship, and I understand you're angry about that,' - that has sometimes calmed the situation but not always.
For a while I have known that he views me as the enemy, but I don't want a pattern to emerge where something he doesn't like goes down like this each time. Part of the process? Any tips from you old-timers?
See below:
H: what did you tell S21?
W: I confirmed that you moved out.
H: blah blah he just crucified me
W: blah blah I'm sorry he was harsh with you, it sounds like he was upset that you haven't talked to him
H: I talk to him!
W: Ok. I don't want to argue.
end of convo.
Good! You listened and made a validation statement, then when he tried to trigger you, you excused yourself and hung up.
H: did you NOT remember me saying that I wanted to spend time with S17 when I came over today?
W: No. The convo as I remember it was "..."
H: I specifically said that I wanted to see him!
W: Did you let him know that?
H: Yes.
W: I can not be responsible for you and him getting together.
H: I am not asking you to!
W: In the future, work out time together with him. I promise not to interfere.
H: blah blah angry i told you this blah blah
W: Ok thank you. I have to go
This isn't as good though. This is classic "he said (I told you xyz) she said (no you didn't)" and just does nothing but build resentment. You might have said "I'm sorry, I don't recall you saying that to me, let me know if you would like to spend some time with him this week and I will make sure I don't have plans with him and that he is aware of it." You did a decent job of not escalating though.
Thanks AS. Man this is soooooo hard. I'm having a super sad day. Nothing new/different. Just a big ball of sad.
RE the I told you/you said/you didn't...You nailed it. Our conflicts have always revolved around us bickering about who said what. I've been accused of lying so many times.
I read your story last night and I am glad you shared your journaling. I am going to do more of that. No one understands this like the DB community. I am in a similar sitch as you were, when you saw your W every day for kids. Mine is this ranch. Even though he was supposed to be deployed for 4 months (which I told him when he moved out not to worry about coming out, I could handle it) but he's here a lot and I don't know if it's good/bad/indifferent to the sitch but I know it is really difficult to see him at times. Some days I handle it better than others. He usually only sees me cheerful and normal. Still haven't gotten my GAL sorted out. I need a hobby.
Today felt weird when I saw him. He was nice, asked about my day, checked me out, but he felt more distant than ever before. I can see how the drinking has been affecting him and he's not sleeping. I feel sad for him for the most part. Not sorry for him, he could get help, but just so unbelievably sad that he's choosing all of this and it's wearing him down.
Just a few minutes after he left he called to let me know that i would see a charge out of my account for $15 and told me he could pay me back and did a cute thing we do as an inside joke. I laughed and said I could totally handle $15/month. Then I said he could have stuck around after feeding the cows, but that I didn't want to invite him in every time he was over in order to respect his desire for 'space'. He said he really appreciated it, he had to go in to work and then he was going to his apt watch the show and bed and what his schedule is for tomorrow (including coming out here to work the cows together).
I took a consulting job for the next two weeks. I haven't worked in 10 years. SAHM/went back to school and got my degree. I put him through school, he put me through with the goal of me working only a couple of jobs per year but to be available to travel with him and take care of the grands. I appreciate the he has not even brought up me getting a full time job. I'm surprised, actually. I don't know that I would do the same if I wanted out.
The consulting job took my mind off the sitch for most of the day. I was dealing with issues that required my undivided attention. H asked me all about it and if I was ok, because the job is very sensitive. Met some incredible people and that was nice.
I just feel stuck right now. I feel like a bomb is about to go off right next to my beautiful family. Haven't felt like this in a while. It's something I have been having a hard time shaking today. IDK. Maybe just too much in my feelings.
Also a question for anyone with good advice. As I'm catching up on everyone's stories, is it rude to cut in with comments? For instance, someone was talking about how the W would tell new BFF "ILY" but didn't tell him. I could totally relate because immediately after BD, he stopped saying it and I stopped out of (respect?). But one day we were walking to the barn and he told his dog "ILY". I actually laughed at that and said out loud, "Seriously!?"
Also, I have read some instances where I know what NOT to do. Should I chime in? Just getting a feel for this place.
I'm going to watch a movie and cook myself some dinner. One thing about this S, I haven't had to cook a whole lot! S17 has been working in the evenings at a restaurant and hasn't wanted mom food and H is gone, so I eat watermelon and yogurt. : )
Thank you Allison! I really like your responses. I also read your story last night/yesterday. I can definitely work on those convos and try and do better. I do find that when I agree with H, he argues less! In the moment, however; I find it incredibly frustrating to take the blame for the sky being blue. If I had that much control, we wouldn't be in this mess.
I feel less alone after reading here and am incredibly grateful for the community. Thank you for taking the time to read and respond. It means a great deal to me.
You are a wonderful caring person, don’t sell yourself short, you are one of us , do what is right , that is all you can do , be true to yourself.
Thank you, Try. I'm doing my very best.
My DIL called tonight and she has a million questions. I answered honesty about my own issues, which she already knew about, but a quick review of Sandi's rules said don't involve the family. She and my S are 21 with baby of their own. On one hand, they are our family, on the other hand I don't want them to pick sides and on both hands, they know what is up and I don't ever want them to get here or one of them to bolt.
Had a pretty great day today, although a little weird. Went to a skeet shoot/barbecue and as I was getting ready, H calls to ask if I have enough shells and told me where to find the extras and what gun would be the best for 'us' to use for that day etc. Told him that I needed to go because I was trying to load the car and he offered to bring the skeet thrower out. To the party. That I didn't know he was planning on attending.
I had put it on my calendar (which he can see. I didn't change it because I'm stubborn and I'm not going to act like we are headed for the big D even if he does!) but I didn't think he was going. He had told me last night that he was coming here to do some work and didn't mention it.
At any rate, I got to the party, was able to eat a little (sad stomach) and he got there and I kind of cycled through the party so I didn't act like we usually do.
These are new-ish friends of ours but very sweet people. I tried very hard to do my own thing, but he acted as if we were there together, for instance, he let me know when he was going over there to get something, or, I'm going home because we need more of x. I told him I was happy to go because I needed a bigger jacket, but he said he would drive. Rode to the house and back with him. Got back and during the skeet shooting he was over-helpful with me. Like he used to be/always is. Like we are an 'us'. As I was making my rounds to leave, I told him goodbye, he started walking me out to the car. A lady I met there stopped me to see if I wanted to go fishing. I said "i'd love to! I'll hang out on the boat and watch you" and we talked about how it hurts my feelings to see fish on the line. (I don't know. I like to eat fish, but I get sad watching them die).
During this convo, the lady asks H if he fishes and they talk about that for a bit. H continues to act like we are this happy couple making plans to get together with new friends.
Anyway, walked me to the car, loaded my things into it for me and he said it was weird because while we didn't necessarily want more kids, it was sad that we could not have any more. ???
He mentioned something about another couple we used to go out with a lot and I said, Oh, I'm going out with them tonight. and he acted surprised and a little sad. Told him I'd let him know and if he wanted to he could join us.
I don't know if I'm doing this "right". He acts like we are totally fine when we go out. As a matter of fact, we have gone out more since BD than before. Dancing, dinners, fund raisers, you name it. And we always have a great time.
Wondering if I should quit going out with him? Do I just live my life and leave him out? It's very counterintuitive to me to leave him out when I want the M to work.
We have had dinner 2 times together since he moved out, but it was because I was already headed out when he was here and he joined me. that was several weeks ago and he has since been a little more distant.
Confusing times.
Did learn that I do so enjoy shooting skeet. I have the setup to do it whenever I want and I'm thrilled to have a GAL activity! I have not been able to find a whole lot that makes me feel good.
Journaling,
Sunday was interesting. Got a text as I was walking into Church (H goes to a different one now at an earlier service) and He says he was planning on coming to the house around 2 to work. Let him know that was fine, I had plans after church and would be around at some point. When I got here, he was mowing the grass and planting more flowers.
Here's the thing. He has been out a lot getting the yard work done for spring. This might make me feel good but he has every intention of keeping the house because I will not be able to afford it. Talking to a L soon to see how I can keep it/if I should and sell. We only moved here 3 years ago. IDK. Most days, he talks to me about what he has planted and even asks what kind of trees I want, where 'we' should plant them etc. It depends on the day, he uses "we' statements a lot sometimes "we need to do x for next year, in the fall we will do x" but still maintains that he moved out for clarity and believes that this is heading for D.
So I listen and try not to get hopes up or down.
We did the ranch work together, came in and were having a racy convo when S17 got home, so had to change the topic. I still flirt back if he starts it, but I don't if he doesn't first. Hey. I like being flirted with by my H!
Anyway, he was completely out there with flirting with me in front of S17, and I was shocked. I am so glad I'm able to let it roll. Just like to post here and see what you think, wisened DBers!
Today I worked again. H called and asked what I had planned for dinner. Told him a steak. He asked if me and S17 were just going to share one, I said yes, but if you want to join us, pull another one. He said "no. I was going to feed him since you are working out of town" Let him know that I would be home to do dinner. Was kind of irked that he wanted to feed the grown boy before I got home. Sorry. I didn't move out. You did. I don't enjoy eating by myself if I have a choice, you eat by yourself in your self-imposed hotel decor apt in town. Consequences, man!
Anyway. He was here when I got home. I was a little surprised he hadn't left. Just sitting on the couch talking to S17. When I came in he started singing "9 to 5" and was in a great mood. Asked me all about my day and my job etc. Talked for a bit and he left.
This is so weird. I do not know this person.
Standing firm, fighting the good fight. Glad I have a job for the next 2 weeks. They love me there and treat me like they value me as a person. I have to tell you, that feels so GREAT. I haven't felt valued in many many years.
Thanks for reading. Drop me a line if you see something I can work on.
97Hope,
I know what you’re going through. They throw us some crumbs and we get our hopes up. The best things is to keep your expectations at zero. This helps when their behavior changes from one day to the next...sometimes from one minute to the next. Keep being kind to your H and continue to work on you. That’s all you can do, is work on you. Sending you hugs!
Exactly, living. crumbs. I've learned after 19 months of this NOT to get my hopes up...or down for that matter. It's a learning process.
Thanks for the hugs. I could use them. I am exhausted after working again after so long staying at home. Drive to and from is a little over an hour each way. Not bad by some standards. Gives me time to listen to a sermon on the way there in the AM and sing my head off on the way home.
My uncle is in final stages of life after drinking most of his life. He's not doing well. I shared that with H and H was clueless as to his own issues. (as expected)
DIL (22) called last night. She is very confused. Told her she would have to call H to get his side of things and she said that S(21) asked her not too. Why is no one in this whole family confronting him on anything? They never have. I would be shocked if they ever did. I don't even think he will listen to anyone at this point, but it might be nice if they told him how they felt about all this.
Anyway, my contract was extended for another 3 weeks, so I have to get used to working full time! I'm happy that they want me around. Nice to be needed...even if it's just for work. But hey, I'm feeling a little desperate!
H is here working on the yard again. I waved as I pulled in the drive, but I have too much to do to hang out with him out there. That is a 180 for me. I normally would go out and help him work.
Feeling like he's getting ready to tell me he's ready to file. Trying my best not to focus on what he does/doesn't do. Some days it's better than others.
Would love to be ok either way. I know in my heart that I will be ok. and I'm in such a better place than I was at the initial BD, but man I do NOT want to put myself or this sweet family through a D.
Thanks for reading. Ya'll hang in there stay strong.
today was a great day. I had a fantastic day at work. I repeat myself, but it is SOOOO great feeling valued. I didn't realize how low I was until I was excited to be around people who smile when they see me. H was here when I got home. S17 and I had dinner plans and S told H he was welcome to join us. H declined. I'm not surprised. I've stopped asking him if he wants to eat with us. Tonight didn't bother me a bit that he didn't come along.
I realized today that I was so busy at work, I didn't have time to think about my sitch.
Prayed with a friend this morning. I know that helped a lot. I think I will focus more on God and less on this situation.
Thankful that I'm not as sad and depressed as I was last week. Man I tanked!
S17 and I sang all the way home in the car tonight and it was great to laugh and just let go with him. I hope that I can bee a good example in this.
DILs (21) & (25) are calling/texting checking up on me. They want to know what's going on. I have referred them to H. I'm not saying another word about any of this to them unless they ask me a direct question about me.
Thankful for days like this and trying to journal it before I go to bed. I need reminders of the hope I have in God, even when it's dark, I feel a great deal of comfort and peace.
I pray that for all of you tonight. Thanks for reading.
Glad to hear your day was great.
HUGS
Thanks Ready!! Hugs back : )
Today was so bizarre. I'm trying to tone down my heart from overflowing. It's a struggle.
My mom called to say that my uncle (her brother) had a heart attack and isn't going to make it (long life struggle with alcoholism). I was about 2 hours away from her. I called H to let him know (since we've been married for 23 years, my family and he remain very close). Anyway, H was very sweet while I was crying about my uncle and said "what can I do". I said that was very sweet, and we talked for a minute.
Anyway, I left work and my mom called to say not to come, go on home (I live an hour away in the opposite direction) and then I get a text from H. "Do you want me to come up there?" I texted back, no, mom said she would like to meet up for lunch on sunday, if you want to join us, she would love to see you.
Next thing I know, I'm a mile away from home and H calls. He says "according to the GPS you are almost home!" I'm almost to your moms house!!
I couldn't believe it. He drove 2 hours to help me with that and I didn't ask. I sure didn't expect it.
Like I said, I'm trying not to think on it, but my heart almost melted with how sweet it was for him to leave whatever he was doing and drive all that way to support me.
That's all for tonight. I'm emotionally drained. I am trying to process another loss. There have been quite a few in the last couple of years.
I still feel strong and at peace (thank you, God) and plan on watching a movie and eating whatever the heck I want for dinner as the boy S17 is working tonight.
Hope you all are finding joy even in this situation.
God Bless.
Gets weirder as the night goes on...just got a text from H asking if some friends of his can stay the night here. I haven't met them before (husband and wife) he was deployed with the husband 2 years ago and realized that his father in law has some land next to ours. Small world. Anyway, they are in town and have a camper and apparently, H is out there and wants them to stay here? I haven't heard back from him. I texted back "are you staying too?" with a wink. IDK. Bizarre land up in here.
On one hand I want to say "looks like you should see if they want to stay with you at your apartment" but part of my 180 is not being a reactive b.
Any advice for these times when he acts like he lives here. Thanks ya'll.
Worked cows together this am. Went as usual. Was invited to go pick up hay, but declined. I don't want to be available for everything.
Detaching is becoming easier as this goes on. You guys are so right. Working on myself and letting him go has been the best thing I could have done.
I can't imagine letting him control my emotions every moment like in the beginning. It was hell.
Now I'm just kind of doing what I think it right, based on my faith. Not concerned with his reaction/response/thoughts or feelings on the matter. I don't know if we are definitely headed for D, but I know I will be ok no matter what.
That feels like a huge victory. I wonder if I will still feel like that if/when it actually comes down to it. On the other hand, I wonder what I would say if he said he was ready to come home. Based on his actions, he isn't someone I want to live with. He has to work on himself too. I know Michelle's books say, that can come later. I'm wondering when that later is.
For now, he has his place, I'm at home and I'll focus on that so I don't drive myself bonkers.
I sure hope anyone reading this is in a good place. I didn't think it was possible to do this and be ok, but here I am. If you aren't ok, reach out and get good solid support. And take care of yourself, emotionally, physically and spiritually. That has been, for me, the difference in how this has gone.
Thanks, ya'll.
Holy cannoli. Today went to hell in a hand basket.
After my last post, we all went to lunch - H, S17 & nephew who came to help work cows.
When we got back to the house, I went in to take a shower and told H I was going to take a nap. He came in while I was in the shower and said he was going to nap too and was looking for some clothes. when I came out of the bathroom, he was in our bed. No big deal, we still sleep together on vacations, trips, etc. I'm trying to sleep, he reaches for me, I reach back and all of a sudden he says "I can't". I stopped and said "you don't want to?" He said "I want to. I just can't. It makes this too hard"
Oh my word. I am his wife! I felt really hurt by the rejection. So I said, "OK" and went to the store to get out. Asked him if he wanted anything, picked up some things for us both and when I got back, he acted like nothing happened, but I could see it all over him that he was hurting, too.
Then he asked me to go out to feed the cows. I did. While out there I said..."you know what? You have been very clear and very honest about where you are. You said quite some time ago that you feel like you are using me when we have S and that you hate yourself for it later. I do not want to add to any bad feelings you have. I'm sorry for my part in what happened earlier"
He apologized, too. then i said (because I can't seem to help myself"...yes. rejection stinks, but it's you not me, because anyone who wouldn't hit this has the problem" and we both laughed.
After that, he sat on the porch with me and we talked about the kids, the grandkids and the flowers etc. He left her and I felt better, but have decided that no matter what he does or how I feel...I'm not having S with him again.
I am a little sad about that. A lot sad, TBH. Feels like another nail in the M coffin. But I know that I don't want to feel that rejection again.
Going to go to bed early tonight. A lot of driving for work and long hours, and not getting enough sleep is catching up with me. And I never did get my nap today.
Hoping for an awesome sermon tomorrow and looking forward to serving coffee and then have a beauty appointment. I do enjoy doing that for myself.
Take care, friends.
journaling...
Another great day at the office. I love the people I'm working with on this current project. I am so busy during the day and feel upbeat and positive and happy...about the time I look at the clock and realize it's time to go home, I feel a gut-punch.
H lives somewhere else. It can still feel surreal. I wonder how long I'll feel like that. It takes less time to talk myself down (so I'm thankful for that) but that hollow feeling stays with me a lot.
Reflecting back on the past 20 months since BD and I'm wondering why he hasn't just filed. Aside from a consult with an L, he hasn't done anything. A year ago December he said he was definitely going to file after the first. Now he says he doesn't want a D but can't be married to me anymore. But he's not doing anything. He goes to work, he goes to church, he comes here (a LOT) and goes to his apt.
It doesn't help to wish he would see an IC again. He didn't get very far with his last one. Didn't know what to talk about.
I'm hoping for his own sake that he is able to open up to someone who isn't afraid to give him a 2x4 when he needs it. That has been what has saved me from my feelings/mind and self.
I admire those of you on here who don't focus on your WAS/MLC. I seem to float back into wondering about him and worrying about him and in my mind, seeing how much better life would be if he would just look at this sitch rationally.
We really didn't have a horrendous M. I'm not the devil. He's no picnic, but we have such an amazing family/life together.
Detaching is still a work in progress (obviously!) I just don't want to talk about my sitch with anyone. I'd rather just journal it here. No one has answers anyway.
Just airing out my head.
Had plans for dinner with my S17 tonight, but he's still out in the pasture with H. I don't resent time he spends with his dad, but it would be better to get on a schedule.
That's def. on my to-do list.
Thanks for reading. Advice/comments always welcome. I hope this finds you full of joy in the midst of your messes.
Take care, friends.
H lives somewhere else. It can still feel surreal. I wonder how long I'll feel like that.
Dropping the rope is a funny thing. It happens very slowly over time, and several times along the way you'll think you've dropped it, but later you'll realize you were still hanging on for dear life. When you quit wondering whether you've dropped it is when you've dropped it
Reflecting back on the past 20 months since BD and I'm wondering why he hasn't just filed.
One thing that is almost universally consistent is that when the LBS removes all pressure, the WAS almost never files. Most of the time when the WAS files it's immediately in the aftermath of BD when the LBS is applying massive pressure and making them feel like they need to escape. But remove the pressure and they are almost always content to slip it onto the back burner.
I admire those of you on here who don't focus on your WAS/MLC. I seem to float back into wondering about him and worrying about him and in my mind, seeing how much better life would be if he would just look at this sitch rationally.
You'll eventually realize that he's never going to get "back to normal" or snap out of it and look at things rationally. That's not in the cards. When you do you'll also realize he's not worth all the mental exertion.
I hope this finds you full of joy in the midst of your messes.
The mess is in the rearview mirror so far back I can't even see it anymore. And it will be the same for you soon. Maybe you'll recon and maybe you won't, but great things are in your future
Thank you so much, AnotherStander. I really appreciate and value your input.
I'm so glad you can't see the mess anymore. I'm very hopeful about my future now. I have my moments, for sure, but overall feel like I'm in the best place that I have every been spiritually, emotionally and even physically.
As the days go by, I find myself thinking of him less and less. The days when I drift there, I have noticed that I spent too much time with him.
Slowly but surely finding my balance.
It takes time , just keep going forward and it will get better , step by step , before you know it you’ll be running with a big smile on your face. Keep going you can do it , I am rooting for you !!
thanks, Try! The encouragement helps a ton!! I have been smiling more lately. H has def noticed. He thinks its the job. Asks about it every time I see him. It's def gotten better being around him. I have found that he tells me more and more the less I ask. I quit asking at first not to crowd him, but now, I just don't want/need to know anything. I sort of need to know when he's out of town, but def not where and who he's going with and what he does while he's gone.
Small setback (sort of ) today. It looked like he wasn't wearing his wedding ring, and for a second I got that yucky feeling in my gut. I hate that it matters to me. But I'm trying to accept myself in where I am in my journey. Balance. Looking for balance.
All of you who read/respond have been like a lifeline to me. Thank you so much.
I feel sad for you in regards to the ring . Those type of moments come from out of the blue and hit hard . I think this is where detachment helps , but I assume they will get fewer as time goes on . I hope you are still taking care of yourself
Thanks. Is it weird that it's comforting knowing that someone feels sad for you? It did kind of punch me for a second. When I say that he was still wearing it, I had a talk with myself, and will probably continue to do so. I need to be ok no matter what he does next. Yes, I am definitely taking care of myself!! I sat on the couch most of the day saturday and it was GLORIOUS!! ha. I needed to rest, so I did. zero guilt!
My biggest struggle, STILL, is not allowing what he says give me hope, or take it away. Definitely a work in progress.
Was weird last night. He was sooooo complimentary and flirty. He has days like that where he just can't take his eyes off of me, and gets almost a little gropey! IDK. Try not to let it build me up, because those falls when he does something weird can't break me. I spent too much time tossed and turned by it.
I am happy to say that the waves are smaller as time goes on, and they aren't as scary as they used to be.
He's out of town until Saturday and I'm actually liking the break! When he left, he was sad. S17 noticed and I didn't comment. I am really and truly happy right now. I'm liking this feeling too much to be hoovered back into drama.
He has also initiated two R talks lately. I validated and only spoke when he asked me a question, but I don't really feel it's helpful to R talk anymore. Either he wants a R with me or he doesn't, but re-hashing it doesn't help, I think.
Anyone have any advice on that? I know Michelle says to let them initiate R talks, but do we get to a point where we just say "enough". I don't want to just listen anymore. I know you are/were unhappy. I'm sorry that you feel that way. I'm not in that place anymore and I want to focus on my future. with or without you. I'm done rehashing the past.
Thanks for reading and walking this road with me. Take care of yourselves, friends!
So I was lied to. H was telling me and oldest S27 that when S17 was at his apartment, he found some creamer in the fridge and was very concerned and asked him about it. H said that he told him it was in the apartment when he moved in. H was 'laughing' and telling me this. "you know he was looking all over the apartment" he also mentioned that S17 found some plastic wine glasses in the bathroom and that it seemed to bother him.
It struck me that he would keep creamer in the fridge if it wasn't him (he has lived there 2 months) but I didn't say anything.
Anyway...by sheer dumb "luck" I was shopping online at the grocery store and I noticed past purchases. March 1 - he bought hazelnut creamer.
He does NOT drink the stuff. Looked at the total purchase and he bought the usual things he eats, but also bought a bottle of wine. He does drink wine on occasion, but the creamer is weird.
I don't know if i can or need to explain to you guys here, but that creamer was for someone. And why in the world he lied about buying it can only lead me to think he's got a "friend".
My question is, do I ask about it?
I don't want to. TBH, if there is a friend, It doesn't change my standing today. I might feel differently tomorrow, but I'm allowing myself to process it.
At this point I don't know. I am not interested in investigating anything. I would not be surprised if he had someone. EA or PA wouldn't matter to me. I would file for D if I found out for sure.
Is it weird that I'm not losing my mind? We've been in house S for 2 years, he moved out Feb 1 this year. He has not mentioned D - says he doesn't want one. MLC in full effect although I couldn't tell you which stage he is in because Ive been trying very hard to focus on my own journey. That takes all my effort.
Bottom line: do you think I should tell him I know that he lied? Should I just come out and ask about the stupid creamer? Should I relax and just let whatever happens happen? Will I find out for sure naturally?
Thanks for any advice.
Stay well, friends.
Hi Hope
I am not sure what asking him would achieve. He will likely lie, then defensive, then twist it so that you are at fault for snooping. It will not go well.
Hope - He more than likely had someone over. It was more than likely a woman. But it could have been a mate. You don't know. They get real secretive even about the things they don't need to be secretive about.
I found out my H started dating about 7 months after he MO - I ran into them on a date. It was awful. It brought back all the same confusion, pain and anguish of the initial BD. But, after much soul searching (and a less than dignified confrontation) I decided dating was something he needed to do as part of whatever journey he is on. How was he ever going to work out if the grass is greener if he doesn't walk on the grass?
I don't know where the dating led too. I suspect it led to no-where. But either way I left him to it.
He will try on the single suit to see if it fits irrespective of whether you confront him or not. If you push him on it he will just get better at hiding it.
Carry on with your life.
I found out my H started dating about 7 months after he MO - I ran into them on a date. It was awful. It brought back all the same confusion, pain and anguish of the initial BD. But, after much soul searching (and a less than dignified confrontation) I decided dating was something he needed to do as part of whatever journey he is on. How was he ever going to work out if the grass is greener if he doesn't walk on the grass?
I don't know where the dating led too. I suspect it led to no-where. But either way I left him to it.
That is mature, but an interesting dichotomy for me. On the one hand, what you say is true. Maybe they would realize the grass isn't greener (maybe it is). However, I struggle with it. Would I want to reconcile with somebody who only wants me back because they couldn't find anybody better?
Harvey - For me it isn't coming back because they couldn't find anyone better, its the realization that there isn't anyone better.
Solo, I took your advice and left it alone. I feel good about that choice. Had an amazing week with our oldest S and DIL and grand kids.
They know that he has an apt down the street. I didn't discuss it with them much. just answered questions they had as best I could and then we just had FUN.
We are going to see kids in another state next week. Traveling together. Haven't decided where I want to sleep yet (we booked one room).
He has been telling me lately how attractive my happiness is and how jealous he is of it. I just say things like "I know you will find your joy again" and try and encourage without telling him how or what it would take. That is hard because I've known him for more than 1/2 my life. But I've learned that nothing I say helps him.
Best take away from this group is that we are both on our own journeys.
Finding that when I just do the best I can, live my life, take care of myself and let the chips fall where they may helps. It's when I start peeking at him that I feel like I start to sink.
Thanks, Solo for the advice. I truly appreciate it. Sometimes feels like I'm a weirdo for not investigating and getting to the bottom of things but when I'm honest with my self, I realize that my life cannot be centered on what he is or isn't doing. The truth will out and I will handle it at that point. In the meantime. I am def focused on living my life.
Journaling.
Went on a family trip together with our S17 to see grands and S27 & DIL26. I got one room with two beds. He asked me on the first night to sleep with him. (s17 stayed with S & DIL). I did. Don't regret it.
Nothing new. Just more of the same. Had a fantastic weekend but when we got back to house, he left quite quickly to his apt.
didn't surprise me at all, I think it's because I have zero expectations. He told our S27 that he just needed space but didn't want divorce. I don't believe that. I think he still wants a D, but I'm focusing on my new job (2 months now still love it for the most part) and GAL. That is stilll challenging. I'm pretty exhausted after the work day and commute back and forth.
Thinking of ideas in that department.
I'm not as full of joy full time, but I'm surprisingly content and emotionally peaceful. So thankful for all of you here.
Blessings
Well, yesterday it happened. (again) H said that he has re-engaged with the attorney and is filing for a D "soon". Asked him what he meant by soon and he said he didn't know. I asked, "next week?" he said "I don't think he will have everything prepared by then". He cried when he left the house. Trying not to cheer him up. I failed. I texted with him most of the night. Send him a bible verse and told him he was going to be ok.
I think I need to stop "being there for him". VERY difficult. 23 is a long time to just not be there. I usually just leave him alone and only answer when he texts etc (short answers)
So bizarre. We went to Cali last weekend and it was like our old days. At least I have a great memory of 'us'.
I will miss him.
Heavy heart but I'm doing ok. Praying a lot and reading the bible. Tornado came close to my office today and everyone was super freaked out, but you know, I had a very difficult time worrying about nature when my family is about to implode.
So sad for me and the boys and dil's and grands.
He said he hasn't told him. I'm not telling them. That's on him.
Any advice between the BD and court? Also, I still don't feel like my M is over. What is that about?
Without fail, he goes out of time and texts me while he's gone. Apparently he was shopping for sunglasses, sent me a pic and asked what I thought.
Last night He texted a selfie of he and his cousin. Just out of the blue at 9pm.
I responded, give everyone a big hug.
He still hasn't told everyone. I think that's very odd. Not our kids or anyone else in the family. Guess he's waiting until the D is final?
I'm going to go to a new church tomorrow so I can sit with someone I know. I'm tired of going and sitting alone.
I'm sad but hanging in there. Crying off an on. Mostly off. I don't think I can talk to anyone but one friend and she has 3 kids at home, so she's busy and I can't talk all day about this. But I"m super lonely.
So I went to church with my friend today, a couple that has been married for 50 years renewed their vows before the sermon. It was not announced, just kind of happened.
I wanted to run out of there. My heart is just shattered today. I hurt everywhere. I can't eat and keep waking up throughout the night.
I stayed. It was a beautiful ceremony. short and sweet. Pastor mentioned that they wanted to renew because they had just come through some very difficult times.
I am happy for them. Hugged the bride after the service and told her that I was happy for her. She must have noticed something because she said, take heart. It's not easy. It's a lot of work! Don't give up.
I wish I could have periodic amnesia sometimes.
Feeling so much today.
Praying it gets better.
Not in the physical pain that I was sunday and monday but this knot in my belly needs to GO!
Stayed busy this week.
A LOT of chaos with my s17. Realized i'm still way too focused on my H and not on my S. So I'm shifting gears.
H has been coming over a lot and texting (still). I've been avoiding him when possible. Difficult with my S going through so much.
Planning a vacay just the S17 & 1. He needs it, I need it. I hate that he is hurting over the problems of his parents as well as 2 very traumatic events these past 2 weeks. H says he wants to 'be there for him'. I said, then work on the M. That is a choice you could make. He didn't respond. (whoops). I know I shouldn't have, but whatever. Once in a while, I still seem to lob over a suggestion.
If you pray, please say one for us.
Just journaling,
He came by today just out of the blue. S17 is at work. Just me home. we worked together to feed the horses/cows etc. We always get along great when we do that. Talked about S17 and his sitch.
H commented on how skinny I am. Asked about my underwear. (???)
Tried to have S with me when we got back to the house. I said, No and got away.
He seemed to want to hang out so I changed clothes and said I was going to a friends house.
He asked what I'm doing tomorrow. I was vague. He knows that I'm going to a fundraiser tomorrow night.
I enjoy his company far too much. How do I focus on myself and my healing without focusing on his negative aspects? I will admit I don't have the best coping skills, so in the past, when I want to get over something, I go negative. I really don't want to do that anymore.
Any advice?
Also, He hasn't brought up filing again, but I will not be surprised when it happens. Sad. Hurt, but not surprised.
Seriously.
He just sent a link to his calendar. ??? I have to laugh at these crazy times. I had asked him for years to let me know when he is on call and when he will be out of town for the military and he does this 2 weeks after he says he's filing.
Might be on the advice of the L - coparenting tips - who knows. I'm suspicious of everything he does lately. Is he being nice for a future of being D? Probably.
S17 had a breakdown last night. I suggested he call his dad. He said "if he wanted to be here for me, he would be here". The boy is not wrong. Now H is concerned about what the IC for the S17 will keep from us. Just got a long 'speech' about it. I just said, if you have concerns, you can certainly talk to the IC about them but S17 wants this, I know it will help him learn some heathy coping skills. Ugh. I hate the control issues.
I will be finished with my contract next week. Wondering if I should hurry up and find work sometimes, but then I come back out of fear and remember that I didn't ask for this, I don't want it, and I will NOT allow H to captain my emo ship. I will take one day at a time and adjust my sails accordingly, but I will not go into panic mode because he's not in a good place.
Hope everyone is finding peace today.
Just keep on DB. Keep focusing on yourself. Thats good that you are not feeding into his ego. He was temperature checking the hell out of you by trying to have sex with you. Its good to show him you are not emotionally connected to him so that he doesnt get that from you.
Who cares if he sent his calendar to you. That doesnt mean anything. He is just keeping you attached. He wants his cake and he wants to eat it too.
Focus on you and S17. Keep your schedule full with things that make you happy and things for you and S17 to do together. Be that rock for S17. You got this.
Thanks, Torn.
I believe you are exactly right in the temperature checking and trying to keep me attached. Honestly, it feels like he is scared to lose me.
I was scared. But then I lost him. I had to come to the conclusion that I had lost him long before BD.
I didn't want this but as far as emotionally, I'm no longer chained in by fear. It's already happened. When I see him reach out (asking me out to dinner, sending texts/facetiming me) I realize that it's not me holding on anymore. It's him.
Wow. Torn, I just had an amazing epiphany. Thank you so much!!! He's holding on and I've been letting him hold on to me and our life together and the kindest thing to do at this point is to stop all that. Actually be unavailable. I wish I would have declined the calendar invite, but I will not beat myself up over it. Time to respond differently.
He is afraid that you wont be plan B. Thats good. If he truly cares he will completely change and prove to you his worth and that he values you.
I am definitely NOT a plan b gal. I am plan A all the way. If he doesn't see that, I can't help him.
That is something I am learning along the way. I didn't expect much from him, and that's what I got....not much. My mistake. Won't happen again. with him or anyone.
Thanks for "listening" : )
WWIII up in here the other day. H motioned that his cousin and her hubby and kids were planning on coming into town and were talking about staying here. (H moved out Feb 1. Said he is filing "soon" 2 weeks ago). I said "have her call me" and it sent him off into a level of anger I haven't seen in quite a while.
H: "why does she need to call you?"
me: so we can work out the details
H: "what details?
me: how many, how long, meals, etc.
At this point, it went south quickly in front of our S17. H believes since this is "still his house" he has the "right" to allow anyone he wants to stay here and that if I don't feel up for company, I should leave for the time. He actually believes this!!! He said I should be thankful for providing a house for me and paying all the bills (he makes GOBS of money and i've been a SAHM until recently) I said that I was thankful and he said I sure wasn't acting like it! lol No. I'm just not agreeing to everything you say!! Ugh.
We didn't fight long, in front of S but I did say "that's not how this works" H said "that is absolutely how this works" to which I replied "you. don't. live. here. I have the final authority on who comes and goes from my HOME.
He called after he left (about 30 min to an hour). and it started up again. Hindsight....NEVER having a convo with him about rights. If I need to, I'll just tell people he invite that it's not a good time and go around H. No one who are mutual friends will believe the chaos around here because H hasn't told anyone in his family or close friends.
The MLC roller coaster is NOT my cup of tea. I regret getting on, but I got back off and now trying not to beat myself up for taking the bait.
This actually isn't completely new. He has always felt "entitled". MLC just brings it out with hurricane force.
And makes me question just what exactly I would be missing....
Feeling so sad and lonely but working helps. Everyone there is still amazing and cool. Drive is brutal but finding joy in the sermons I've been listening to. Hope in the Lord is much better than hope in any person!! Has brought me peace!
The thought of dating ANYONE else..ever...still makes me pukey. Will that change?
Blessings to all of you. Advice welcome.
Stay strong, it is your home and you DO have the final say on who visits. His behaviour is outrageous, don't tolerate it and don't argue with him, if he challenges you again repeat your position and say you will not continue discussing it.
I get the feeling he has acted like a bully for a long time, this is a great chance for you to be assertive now because you are going to need these skills in the future!
dilly! I've read up on your sitch. Thank you for taking the time to comment. I know that I will definitely need to work on being assertive. I found a lot of comfort in your story, not that I 'want' you to be here, but feeling alone stinks!! I am glad that you have people to meet up with. That has been difficult here as we have only lived here for 3 years - population 200 - and everyone we know are mutual. ugh! But town 20 miles away I can start meeting up with people. just have to make myself do it for a time.
I've realized over the past 2 years that for most of my life I've felt like I can't feel certain things, and that my H would tell me my feelings were wrong. This has been amazing and very difficult at the same time as I am now 45 realizing that when I'm sad, angry, hurt ....whatever...that I don't have to change my feelings or apologize for them. They are mine. It's also beginning to anger me that I have allowed someone else (more than just H) to tell me that my feelings were wrong. So instead of hanging up over the past, I am noticing my feelings and not apologizing for them (even in my head I still find myself questioning my own feelings!) And focusing more on my responses. Another milestone for me, I react less and respond more. Feels liberating.
Have a slow weekend. Bank holiday monday so I'm looking forward to an extra day off this week.
Have to meet with a L. don't want to, but H is changing how the money is being handled.
He send me a text last night with a picture of a co-worker (male) at a restaurant explaining what would show up on the credit card. Felt like a crumb. I didn't pick it up.
I know exactly how you feel on the house front. My H is still very attached to it. There is a part of me that knows that with every change I make, he fits in that little bit less.
But you need your space. And that space needs to be such that you feel safe. He has his flat that he can escape to whenever things get too much. What do you have?
Last Halloween my H invited his mum and his brothers (then) girlfriend and there daughter round to the house so that they could all go trick-or-treating. I said at the time (admittedly to his mum and not to him) that it was inappropriate for him to be inviting people round to my house without speaking to me first. She understood and he has (more or less) never done it again. It is your home. He left and now does not get to invite people over to your home irrespective of whether he is on the deeds or pays the mortgage or whatever. Do you have the right to demand this. I don't know. But you have the right to request that he does the decent thing. If he doesn't then keep reiterating it. Your house. My home. Keep repeating it until it sinks in.
The thing about feelings is that they are all valid. Two different people can be part of the same interaction, but they will interpret it and feel it differently. No-one can tell you your feelings are wrong because they are your feelings. I have incredibly irrational feelings. But they are feelings all the same (I had a mini breakdown over a bottle of paprika and another more recently with discovering that he had one of my casserole dishes in his cupboard) and they are valid to me.
You are doing great hope. Keep in there. Keep finding and doing things that make you happy.
Your feelings are yours and absolutely you are entitled to them, the only thing you're not entitled to is to dump those feelings on someone else. And you shouldn't act just on your feelings alone, that's what our Hs did and look what a horrible mess they caused!
I can see how much your H is frightened to lose you, I have the same thing going on with my H (except mine just vaguely threatens in the direction of D for the moment). It is utterly perplexing isn't it?
Your job sounds great, a big part of your GAL. It's not easy being a SAHM because it can be so thankless and unfulfilling, so I'm glad you have your job to boost your self-esteem. Next stop: meeting people in the next town?
Hi solo! Oh no. Paprika can sure be tricky ; ) I'll think of you next time I use mine.
His mom called today and told me that "she knows" she FaceTimed him and saw a weird place and asked him where he was and he told her he moved out.
I felt foolish talking to her like she didn't know, but she understood. She's very sorry. Said she loves me and always will and that we will always be friends. I argued for a minute, but really, you can't tell her anything. So i just agreed.
Going to take a nap and movie with S17 tonight. He's been amazing. He's doing much better, his IC appointment is tomorrow and I'm very hopeful that she can help him with healthy coping skills. Had a great time with him today washing our cars and tacos for lunch.
H is buying cows today. Told him yesterday that I'd prefer that he not buy any more big ticket items until everything was final and you would have thought I punched him in the gut.
Reality is harsh. He does realize that when he files we will, actually, BE divorced?! ugh. My face hurts.
Hoping everyone is well and having a grand time GAL. I wish I could hang out and go paint or something with you guys!
Dilly,
Yes, and guess what? I went out for a pedi and started talking to a woman and told her I was looking for friends. lol She almost started tearing up! Her best friend of 30+ years passed away about 9 months ago and she's really missing her. I told her that I couldn't fill the void, but I could fill the chair next to her at dinner or a movie or painting. We exchanged phone numbers and I'm excited.
It felt good to take a leap. I've done it before with mixed results, but I won't give up. I also reached out to a neighbor I haven't spoken with in several months and we have agreed that it's dumb that we don't get together more.
Thanks for your encouragement. : )
How lovely, here's to new friends and reconnections
I need to keep working on this myself.
97Hope that is lovely. How brave of you. I don't think I'd ever have that courage - to tell someone I was looking for friends, then offer to be their friend - but it sounds like it worked out amazingly for you. I am taking notes.
You know, I don't mind putting myself out there because I've been dumped by my H of 23 years. Seriously, if a stranger rejects me, I'm quite sure I'll pull through! haha!!!
big hugs to you both, Dilly & Alison. I've been following both of you and have been so encouraged!!!
I came to post a journal entry but I had a long day. Thank you both SO much for sharing and encouragement.
Journaling,
S22 & DIL22 are moving back to our state soon. H and I had discussed allowing them to stay with us for a month (tops) so they could take some time to find a place to live.
H moved out in February. We discussed this after he moved out but before he said he was filing soon.
Told him last night that they are moving their moving date up to July. H seemed VERY agitated about it. I didn't ask. I think it might have put a wrench in his plans.
Feel like I did something very stupid. I texted him photo of mail he received here because it's re: a new company he just started. As soon as I sent it I regretted it.
Don't always know what to do. I'm emo detached for now. Sometimes something happens and I feel sucked back in.
I'd love advice on how to live separately when they come over every day. He is out of town now. Glad for a break. He is over here a LOT. I'm ready for some space. I don't want to ask for it, but I think I might need to. Is that still standing for my M? How do you drop the rope when you have mutual business, kid etc?
Feeling a little out of my element with this.
Stomach has been IMMENSELY better!! Praise GOD. Seriously. I couldn't go on with that. Lost 15 lbs in 2 weeks and just couldn't see going on like that. Prayer is awesome. I have peace. No matter what.
Hope everyone here is enjoying the beginning of a beautiful weekend. Thanks for encouragement and support and 2x4's
Blessings to you, friends.
Why was that stupid to text him that? I quite often text my H anything important which turns up in the post, otherwise I would probably forget about it and it could get lost in the mail which piles up sometimes. Why is your H agitated about your son coming back?
Why don't you want to ask for some space? If he's there all the time then you could just be out GALing, that way he'd have to text you in advance if he has something he needs to talk to you about.
Can you avoid him? If he's around every day, can you just leave the mail out prominently in a place where he can see it?
I want as little contact as possible with my H - but we do have a young child and the contact arrangements aren't set and regular yet. I plan to reply to any messages about finances in my own time, and in a businesslike fashion, and keep him copied in to emails about joint finances that concern him. If he texts me about anything else, I plan to ignore it.
You are entitled to have guests in your home for as long as you want. H might want to come and see them, but it doesn't mean you have to be there. He can be agitated or displeased for reasons that aren't of interest to you, and you don't have to engage him about that, or even listen to him share his opinions or feelings if you don't want to. I guess the finest art would be to listen, validate, then do as you see fit anyway without worrying too much. I'm not there, so I am going to be avoiding H.
Why is your H agitated about your son coming back?
Because he is getting ready to file. He doesn't want to look like a "bad guy". (and don't ask me how d doesn't make you a jerk for no good reason, It's mind-boggling!!)
Why don't you want to ask for some space?
Honest answer - I like to see him. We still get along amazingly well and he can see how happy I am. He is super attracted to me and I like it. But I'm not sure that's good for me anymore. So when I tell him I'm ready for space, I will have to deal with his personality that I don't like. I have to be ready because it won't be easy and if I do it before I'm ready, I'll cave. But I feel like it's coming.
He can be agitated or displeased for reasons that aren't of interest to you, and you don't have to engage him about that, or even listen to him share his opinions or feelings if you don't want to. I guess the finest art would be to listen, validate, then do as you see fit anyway without worrying too much. I'm not there, so I am going to be avoiding H.
I am going to paste this on my wall so I can rehearse it. <3
I might need to rehearse it myself. I find it nearly impossible to be okay when I know H is angry with me. I find it impossible to be angry at him without trying to get him to stop doing the thing that is making me angry. I do intellectually accept that his angry feelings are his to deal with, and mine are mine, but to actually separate and let him do what he wants and deal with my own anger in a healthy way is one of the hardest things I have ever done.
How are you today?
I think that we have been together so long (me and mine and you and yours) that their emotions become tangible. It's very difficult not to interact with it. If we try and help them, they will have an opportunity to put it back on us, so we leave them in the pig pen of their own making and wait patiently for them to realize (or not) that it is their mess, not ours and we choose not to make it ours by jumping in with them.
I'm 'ok' today. H picked at me about some charges that I will be making in the next couple of weeks. I stayed calm (yay, me!) because I had already discussed them with him, I put money in the savings, this is not a surprise to him. I realized something valuable. When he's distressed about something that he is doing, he starts picking at me. When I don't take the bait, he starts to get stirred up even more. When he acts like this, I don't miss him. I actually want to run away myself.
The lady I met at the nail salon texted back and we are having dinner wednesday. I'm glad to have a GAL this week. S17 is going to Asia for a month. I'm looking forward to not seeing H so often. While S is gone, I plan on going dark. It's time. What I have been doing isn't working (2 yrs) and I'm ready to give H a go on his own for a while. I've still been listening to him about his day (work, cows, life etc) and I think it would be better for me to not be the 'friend'.
How is your weekend? Did you do anything GAL?
Wow 2 years is a LONG time! Your son going away sounds like a good excuse to not see your H so often. It sounds like you need space, lol
2 years in August I've been standing. YES. Space for 1 now please! lol He has ZERO excuses to see me. Also, H is going to be gone for 2 weeks of it and I'm going totally dark for that period. I'm actually looking forward to it.
This stuff is not for the faint-hearted.
No, it certainly isn't. He will be temp-checking like an array of digital thermometers on a pharmacy display, I'm predicting...
Two years is a LONG time. Makes my blood run cold. Is it worth it? If you'd have known two years ago what you know now, would you just have bolted the door after him?
GAL plans this weekend were okay for me. Saw some friends on saturday morning while the kids were busy or with H, haircut in the afternoon. Saw a friend on saturday afternoon and went out for a drive and coffee in the evening with another friend - sobbed my heart out and ranted in her car, so it was probably no fun for her, but it is rare I am in that state with someone there and I needed the care. Today a dog walk with friends in the morning, then the afternoon catching up with housework and feeling morose. Bed early tonight for me I think.
Definitely not for the faint hearted ..or the weak willed.
Although going dark is a way of making them realise what life would be like without us, it is also an opportunity for you to think about what life would be like without them. Fill those two weeks with activities. Some on your own and some with others - plan a hike, go watch a play, get a haircut, have a facial, visit a spa, go out to dinner with friends.
Do stuff. You never know, you might like it.
Two years is a LONG time. Makes my blood run cold. Is it worth it? If you'd have known two years ago what you know now, would you just have bolted the door after him?
It was totally worth it. No matter what happens, I feel strong, confident and am in SUCH a better place now. My kids have all commented on how they hope they would do what I have done. (They are 17,22 & 27). I can honestly say I did EVERYTHING I could. I have absolutely zero doubts that I'm doing the right thing. While I've been watching my H fly off a cliff, I didn't go with him, I didn't let it drag me down and I decided to let this experience help me grow.
I have grown spiritually, mentally and physically (well, I didn't grow physically, but I've taken better care of myself lol).
I am proud of myself without having a big ego because I didn't do this on my own. I relied on God, my friends, family and people here. I have better coping skills and I am truly ready for whatever comes next. I was not in this place 3 years ago.
If you have told me 2 years ago that I'd be sitting here in 2 years, I would have collapsed. But here I am. Taking one day at a time. That's how I get through well. When I start thinking about the future I lose my 'censored'.
Hiya Fly! Is it a form of manipulation to go dark to "make them see"? That's the only thing that makes me feel a little itchy. I don't want to try and make him feel things. I have a history of that.
I do feel like the space would do me good, but more than that, I think it will make him lose his mind. I have not dropped the rope. I feel him tugging on it daily.
No, it certainly isn't. He will be temp-checking like an array of digital thermometers on a pharmacy display, I'm predicting...
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!
I have a feeling you are correct.
Going dark is only a form of manipulation if that is your reason for doing it. It is also full of expectations on how you expect him to react. To be honest, after 2 years, 2 weeks of going dark is unlikely to make a dent. He will see it as you being sulky. He migjt temp check but after the first week of no response, he will sulk.
But you need to do this for you.
Reframe it - you are taking time for you, to get to know yourself better within the context of you without him. I bet aftet two weeks of putting him at the back of your mind, you will be lighter.
thanks, Fly.
There are definitely things that I am still working on that wouldn't be good for any relationship such as doing things to get a response, or acting in certain ways because of where H is. That's why I want to be sure of my own motives.
As far as H is concerned, he will definitely have his thoughts on why I'm doing it (has an opinion on absolutely everything) and it's usually because he thinks poorly of me, so I try very hard to leave him out of the equation.
When one goes dark, is it possible to not respond at all to texts? I also don't want this to be an issue with court coming up. That I'm not a good co-parent. So if I only respond to kid things I think I'll be ok.
He will fight dirty in court, so I'm cautious of that, while still doing what I need to do to lighten my own load.
Basically, what I'm asking is, what should I ignore completely and what should I respond to and how?
I've been a good friend these past years and not quite sure where to start.
I think the advice for going dark is to respond to texts about childcare and finances if your spouse asks a direct question. Then you answer the question. You're not making them think you've gone missing, you're just taking away all the parts of the relationship that are about friendship, love, family etc, not letting them know anything about your inner world or social life, and keeping it 100% business only. Talk to him like you'd talk to your accountant, in other words.
Accountant. Perfect. That, I can wrap my brain around. Thanks for the advice, Alison.
Journaling:
I had a meltdown today after a dental appointment. In 2005 I left my husband and 3 boys for another man. I drove by the apartment I stayed at during that time. It all kind of hit me at once how out of my mind I was and how horrible I was to my sweet family.
Remorse fell on my head like bricks. I cried and screamed and just let it all out. I think for the past 14 years I just kind of stuffed it. When I left H, he was devastated. It came to mind that he must have felt like I did in the first couple of months. I don't feel like I have this coming, but I do have a view from the other side. I truly was out of my mind back then. It took about 8 months for me to come to my senses. I had moments of remorse, but not like today. H and I got back together, but I don't think we every truly dealt with it all. We just kind of moved forward like nothing happened. I think today was good for me. I could feel the weight of it, and it is a part of why H and I are here, but I'm learning that instead of hanging myself on the rack for it, I can use it as a way to have compassion for others. H particularly, but others, too.
Have read "the hiding place" by Corrie Ten Boom and she talks about God only giving us what we can handle as we can handle it. I believe that. I believe that today I have an opportunity to work through something from my past that I did and heal.
After dental appointment and crying jag, I'm exhausted. Nap and then taking the rest of the day off to spend time outside. It's a billion degrees out but it's gorgeous.
Wow, that sounds like a long time to stuff that big an event down. But yes, you can definitely see the other viewpoint now! You weren't in your right mind and neither is he. But you came back, remember that.
Can you remember how your H behaved back then? I'm thinking it wasn't any one thing which he did or said which made you come back? It kind of puts into perspective all our worries about what effect we have on them, doesn't it?
((dilly)) thanks for not thinking I'm with worst.
Ok. I've actually been thinking on that this afternoon.
He had a bunch of pictures blown up and put into frames (of me and us, wedding etc) He played a song for me in the car one night, he didn't give up in the beginning. He still sent me flowers on our anniversary AND he told the OM that he was going to fight for his marriage.
At the time it made it harder to ignore him and his feelings, but it didn't change my self-centeredness. Honestly, I didn't care about anything buy my "happiness" at the time.
It got to where the more I was with the OM, the more I missed my H and realized OM was NOT my H and I grew to resent him for it (the OM). The thought of him for a very long time disgusted me. he played me and I ate it up.
The things that didn't help me (I'm not blaming H here, just being honest) -
-he started dating. That did NOT make him attractive to me. It made me think I had made the right choice.
-the friends I surrounded myself with at the time were HORRIBLE. They said a lot of "you deserve to be happy" "you have 2 great choices" "kids are resilient" etc.
-he didn't really change. we got back together, but he still did all the things that made me want to leave in the first place.
-we went on our first date and he complained that I wasn't sitting close to him. I know now that he was hurt, but I wish he could have been patient with re-entry. I was so freaking confused and that set us back another 6 months. I went flying back to OM and hated everything about my new life.
I respect the hell out of him for standing in the beginning. I realize that he just couldn't do it for very long, and that helps me stand now.
What I learned. The thing I want to take away from today is that I wanted him to love me where I was. That's what I'm doing for him. Not because I think I deserve this after what I did to him. And that is not what he is doing now. I'm certain he isn't paying me back. But I know that confused, scared feeling of not knowing what to do and for as long as I can, I'm going to love him, even if its quietly from afar because that's what is right now.
I'm wordy tonight. What made me come back was all of it. Our history, our boys, our life. All of it. When I finally FINALLY stepped out of my emotions, I was able to really see the picture of US.
Songs killed me. Sometimes I would cry for hours and want to go home so bad, and I remember calling him saying I missed him and he said "just.come.home". But i didn't. I thought I had gone too far and done too much. Again, it was like my brain was broken. Not an excuse, but man I was messed up. I don't even recognize that girl anymore.
This is really interesting and insightful. I'd imagine that your H probably has a whole different way of operating from you, but there will be elements here which are similar between the two situations. That comment about being confused and scared, I'm pretty sure that applies to all WASes. Also, the bit about having gone too far and having caused too much damage, that's the whole paving the way back part right there.
Will any of this affect what you actually do rather than just how you feel about it?
Ah 97Hope - don't beat yourself up. Remorse and contribution are good feelings because they help you to live life differently and they enlarge your capacity for compassion. They beat the self-righteousness and judgmental aspects to our characters right out of us. But guilt and blame don't. You're in a hard place. Was your H ever willing or able to hear what was wrong in the marriage that contributed to you wanting to leave it? Were you able to figure out what was wrong in you that led to you making some crazy choices?
I know one of the reasons I've put up with so much from my H is because I know I've really hurt him. That I was one of the few people he let behind his defences, and I didn't treat that as sacred, I neglected and ignored it. I didn't let him be delicate and vulnerable because I needed him to be strong. It was wrong of me and it really really hurt him. The guilt of that makes me put up with things I shouldn't have done - that harmed me and our kids and probably harmed him too. I don't know how to stand and love him from afar while feeling remorse and contribution and compassion and ALSO not tolerating the way his anger leads him to treat me. I don't think he knows either. I'm really not sure I can any longer, for my sake and for his. I often wonder if the kindest thing in my situation is to force him to let go of me. Who knows? Your post has given me lots of food for thought. You're not the worst!
Remorse and contribution are good feelings because they help you to live life differently and they enlarge your capacity for compassion. They beat the self-righteousness and judgmental aspects to our characters right out of us. But guilt and blame don't.
so much YES!!! This is where I am so glad for therapy last year and bible study etc that has helped me learn the difference!!! I'm focusing on the compassion aspect rather than guilt and shame. I LIVED in complete guilt and shame before I got help.
You are right, if we operate out of guilt, we don't have good healthy boundaries. I'm still learning : /
Yesterday was very hard but good. I got a lot out of my system, and it was time for a dump.
Today had coffee with a sweet friend. She is very encouraging and the best at helping me stay focused. Tomorrow I have a spa appointment! I'm so excited. Finally decided to spend some money on myself. Not something I'm used to to this extent. Working has its perks!
Will any of this affect what you actually do rather than just how you feel about it?
It gives me perspective and compassion, but what I do is (my best!) to operate outside of emotions. What lead to me leaving back then was 100 percent emotions. So I have learned that the hard way.
What I will actually do is continue to take one day at a time. You know that's difficult, but when I get ahead of today I get emotional and make big plans that aren't actually what would be best for me long term.
I'm learning a lot from you 97Hope - including how when I thought I've been acting out of compassion, I've actually been acting out of guilt. I think it will take longer for me to heal and forgive myself, and when I do I will be better at protecting myself from behaviour that I need to learn, deep in my heart, that I don't deserve. I have a feeling the marriage I have, as it stands, only exists because he's angry and I'm guilty. When that dynamic is gone, what is left? I am afraid that there's nothing left, and that's another thing that's been preventing me having good boundaries. It is so so so difficult. I do feel like I am growing just reading your posts though, so keep it up. There's something good coming out of your troubles, at least - just a small thing - but I for one am grateful for it.
Taking one day at a time is key to this whole thing, I think. Getting to either R or D is a huge emotional mountain to climb so taking small steps and not looking too far ahead is difficult but worth doing. Um, my mountain metaphor just fell apart there because I'm scared of heights, lol.
I have a feeling the marriage I have, as it stands, only exists because he's angry and I'm guilty. When that dynamic is gone, what is left?
I'm going to say this as gently as possible, because all of us are going through the mess, but something my therapist told me (and it made my blood run cold) was "your M is dead". He didn't stay there. He said that there is always hope, but that it couldn't continue in the state it was in (because of very similar reasons that you and your H are/were in).
That hurt to hear, but when I started accepting it, I realized that he was right. My M was DEAD. Gone. And I could embrace that and let it hurt and grieve it (I still am in the process of grieving the old!!) and stand for the M that I want. This is where I hope for H to want the same. I was clinging to our old R and it was not good. It wasn't as bad as he was making it out to be, but we could have something amazing. However, we BOTH have to do the work on ourselves. Was it you or Alison that said Marriage = PhD and H is still at A levels?? lol So I accept where H is now. He may/may not want to return to me and to a new MR, but any relationship (please let it be him!! lol) cannot be what we had. I could not stay where I was. I wanted a savior and there is only one Jesus.
None of this is easy. I pray that God uses this mess for something good, beautiful even. That is something I can definitely not be scared to hope for. It's His promise to me.
Dilly!! You crack me up.
Good grief, I'm tired of mountain climbing. Can we do a walk on the beach instead?? I'm thinking flowy dresses, fancy hats and tea by the seaside! lol
Dilly & Alison, you both have been a blessing to me. ((((hugs))))
You are very wise, and it is okay not to be gentle. I think I've been through worse this year, and even this last week!
I can't stay where I am either. And what you are saying about Jesus chimes very closely with something my IC told me today. I am not Christian but I do have faith - and my IC is a spiritual director as well as a trained psychotherapist. She said that I'd put H in my heart in the place where God should be and that there would never be a good marriage or a happy aftermath of a divorce if I didn't take him out of that place. I agree. I don't know how to do it yet.
Yes, let's have a lovely beach walk instead 97Hope. We can end at the pub for a lovely pint of decent bitter. You can have the tea if you don't drink
I'm up for that. So long as it's a dog-friendly pub that doesn't mind a tee-totaller sneaking in wearing her muddy hiking boots, filthy jeans, tomato-sauce stained hoody and stupidly expensive lipstick (ha!)
I have found my people. <3
lol, you and your muddy dog and expensive lipstick, you crack me up Alison
You three make me laugh. Even in the sadness there is humor and compassion and a kind of sisterhood. I remember some days journalling, small silent tears running down my face, and DV or Yorkie would respond with something funny (king douche bag of douche bag land comes to mind) and I would find myself unable to stop giggling or with something simple like "your H is an idiot" and even though it doesn't seem like much, those words meant the world to me.
Hope - your therapist is correct. My M was dead. It was dead because it was broken and it had been broken a long time. The need to escape was probably building up inside my H for well over a year. That need was probably building up inside me too. If we had known earlier, it could have fixed it, but instead we pushed it down, letting it seethe and grow inside us. Once my H made the decision to go, he was always going to stay gone, because no matter how much he wants to come back, he is still afraid that things haven't changed, we will be back to where we were, but this time he won't have the courage to leave again. Clarity comes after the fact, never during.
That does not mean there is no hope for us. There is always hope. But in the meantime you need to live as full a life as you can. Fill it with things that make you happy. If you don't know what those things are, then try everything until you do.
The cake eating thing is a difficult one. It is only cake eating if you have some expectation that your 'niceness' will somehow bring them back. That your kindness will be reciprocated. It won't. The only thing that will make them start being kind and compassionate back is if you set boundaries, and even then it isn't guaranteed. Be nice for you. Be kind and compassionate because these are good qualities to have. Lead by example, but don't expect to be followed.
Journaling,
Holy hell. I think I'm the poster child for how NOT to DB. Without being too graphic, I was out in the barn finishing up when H pulled in. I could tell right off that it was going to be a fun night together. I can't explain it, but i can just tell. Anyway we have a great time together running around the property getting some much needed small chores done and H says "I was going to bring you dinner to cook for you, but I got held up. Do you want to go eat Mexican?"
S17 left yesterday. My expectations were that I wouldn't see H, or if I did he would be all weird and distant. This threw me, pleasantly.
We had a BLAST at dinner. I mean we talked like it was 'us'. We both laughed and joked and it was just a breath of fresh air.
On the way home, he told me that he accidentally told his mom about his apartment, and I gave him heck about it "Why the heck didn't you lie??" (laughing) told him that she had called me and I just listened to what she had to say etc. anyway, he comes in the house with me and we have an amazing cuddle on the couch.
So much for going dark. I've found that when I try and come up with a plan, a better opportunity shows up. He mentioned me moving on and I told him that I'm not doing that right now. Temp check? A part of me would like to be tepid, but he's fragile right now. So I am probably failing at DB techniques, but I also know this man and even though he has been possessed by an alien, I ran down my options and feel like I made the right move for today.
Gosh 97 - that's a change. I think if you're okay, and not harbouring resentment or building expectations, then you're taking care of yourself well enough. Your love for your husband - even in his fragility - is shining through. It sounded like he treated you well last night, and you were able to enjoy the bond and friendship that still exists between you for a little while. I've had similar moments with H and I know how totally impossible they are to close the door on.
Perhaps it's also a lesson to me in bad expectations. I expect a lot of #$%^ from my husband, and sometimes I get it, and sometimes I wonder if it's my expectation of how he will react that helps to bring it on (he's responsible for his behaviour, of course). I remember explaining to Dilly about how the situation with H and Eldest gets heated, with both H and me both pre-over-reacting - and at the time she found it pretty funny (me too) but I managed not to do that the week I was away, and it turned out they were fine with each other and, fingers crossed, it seems it's been a real thawing in their relations. I didn't expect that, I expected much worse.
So hard though. I think a lot to do with having expectations is about control. If I expect the worst, I can protect myself from it. If I expect the best, I can do something to make it happen. Perhaps expectations die away as detachment builds. From how you describe your night with H, it sounds like you hit that sweet spot of being able to enjoy what was there with no expectations, and keep your detachment from whatever emotional mess he's in himself right now. I envy that. Do you give workshops?
Interesting stuff about expectations, for me when I've had expectations it's almost like H has gone out of his way to confound them. Does he sense my positive expectations and push back against them?
Well, that sounds lovely, 97Hope, I'm actually really jealous. What I wouldn't give for a cuddle on the sofa right now. Do you think he was behaving this way because he thought you WERE moving on? Maybe you'll never know. Keeping things light and fun sounds like a nice way to be for now though, as long as he doesn't now pull back, that seems to be my H's modus operandus. Be miserable and not very pleasant one day, text me a lot the next day, text nothing the following day. Push and pull, keeping me dangling just the right distance away.
Ya'll it WAS a good night. And that's where I leave it. Had fun, enjoyed my old friend, don't know when/if I'm going to see him again. End of.
So something I found myself doing (for most of the M) was that I would temp check HIM and then respond (actually react) with what I thought was accordingly. But now (this was my #1 - 180) I check MY temp and respond (not react) according to ME. It's amazing and h as told me how attractive my happiness is and when I've had a bad day he has been comforting. I'm just honest as soon as I see him i.e. "I've had a rotten day, so I might be a little quite". He comes up and gives me a hug, asks if I want to talk (I've learned I need to process things before I talk to him so I usually say, "no, but thank you so much") This works for us because it's different then how I've handled my emotions in the past.
Expectations are only to be had for ourselves in our sitchs. IMO. When I keep them at zero for H I am only pleasantly surprised or not surprised at all.
H told me one day that he wasn't always moody because of me when I asked him if he was ok. I always like to think that it's about me lol but it isn't. Taking the pressure off of myself has been helpful.
Alison - I just read that about your H and eldest. Pre-over reacting has never been helpful for me and I could have earned a gold medal in it!! I've been reading a TON on reacting vs. responding. Super helpful in life not just in DBing. It's felt empowering not reacting all the time.
Journaling,
I had laser hair removal done today. without going TMI, I'm just gonna say that if he still files for D from this girl he is a fool!! ; )
Thought about you today, Dilly & Alison. Praying for your situations, and thankful for the place here to go through this 'together'. Feel not so alone since we've connected.
lol at the hair removal! I love the being empowered by not reacting. Someone on here who Red talks about drinking the STFU smoothie, and I think about that quite a lot when I want to send a text to my H. Being impulsive is not helpful in our sitches! The other thing which people say quite often about DBing is that sometimes doing nothing is the best thing to do, also true. I also love the bit you said about having expectations for yourself but not your H, that is very wise.
Journaling,
Work colleague came over from the UK to our office on Monday. He was GORGEOUS and funny and we had an amazing day at work. Laughed our heads off and worked well together.
Everyone was going out last night and I was going to go, but I felt a shift and I decided that it was not a good place for me. I was enjoying his attention in a way that would not lead to good things. While I don't think either one of us would have crossed a line, I just knew that I was looking into attention too much.
Felt a little embarrassed that a fun day at work with a handsome man did so much for my confidence, and then I reminded myself that I am 1. Human 2. Still a woman. So I went to bed with my laptop and watched comedy until I fell asleep.
I should mention that this is the first time in 15 years that I have genuinely found a man attractive other than my H. It was both scary and also let me know that if this doesn't work out, I'm not doomed to spinsterhood for life. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but I've just been a little scared that I won't ever feel about anyone the way I do my H and that can be sad and scary.
Birthday party for H's cousin on saturday. H will leave town tomorrow for 2 weeks. I want to go, but no one knows our sitch and I don't know if I want to 'pretend' anymore. Scratch that, I don't want to pretend, but I also don't want anyone to know (from his family). Only 2 people know and they don't know much of anything.
On one hand I feel disloyal to them for not being honest, but on the other hand, I'm trying to respect boundaries.
Who knows what I will decide between now and then. Today, I'm going to enjoy my day off!! It's not hades hot so I'm going to get some things done outside.
Hope everyone is staying strong.
I feel silly writing this on a divorce-related forum, but what an upbeat and hopeful story! You sound like you've made choices that will make your life fantastic whatever H decides.
97Hope, I think it's okay to be private about what's going on in your marriage if that is what is best for you. If you were protecting your H - as some of us do or have done around their poor behaviour and protecting them from the social consequences of that, it would be a bad thing. But being private because you want to be sounds like a good boundary to me. I'm glad you're doing so well.
CW,
I am ALL about hope!! (get it?? Because of my user name!? I crack myself up)
I think that's what makes this forum different/special. We share the good, bad and the ugly and continue to hope, and look at the positive, and just keep moving forward.
I do believe these choices I am making will make my life better no matter what. When I stopped making it about H, everything got better. Not always easy, but better.
Hope you are doing well. : ) (see what I did there?)
Alison!
I am doing well. H rushed in and out of here this afternoon to fix the garage door before he leaves. Thanked him like he just did my taxes. : )
I'm hoping these next two weeks are a respite for myself. Everyone gone, house quiet. I am choosing to use it for my benefit. All I want to do is sleep when I'm not working. ugh!!
Don't feel depressed just sleepy all the time!
You doing ok?
Journaling,
Work colleague came over from the UK to our office on Monday. He was GORGEOUS and funny and we had an amazing day at work. Laughed our heads off and worked well together.
Everyone was going out last night and I was going to go, but I felt a shift and I decided that it was not a good place for me. I was enjoying his attention in a way that would not lead to good things. While I don't think either one of us would have crossed a line, I just knew that I was looking into attention too much.
Felt a little embarrassed that a fun day at work with a handsome man did so much for my confidence, and then I reminded myself that I am 1. Human 2. Still a woman. So I went to bed with my laptop and watched comedy until I fell asleep.
I should mention that this is the first time in 15 years that I have genuinely found a man attractive other than my H. It was both scary and also let me know that if this doesn't work out, I'm not doomed to spinsterhood for life. Don't know if that makes sense to anyone, but I've just been a little scared that I won't ever feel about anyone the way I do my H and that can be sad and scary.
I understand that completely, your H is not your only option and you are open to the potential if you D. That makes complete sense (as does you not finding other men attractive before, you had rightly closed that option off because you were a loyal and loving W) And isn't it nice to flirt and be admired when the person you love most in the world has rejected you? That rejection is crushing and takes a long time to bounce back from, it seems like you're getting there. Good call on not taking it further with this gorgeous man though, admirable
I am doing really well, 97Hope - thanks for asking. Lots of GAL today including concentrating with new vigour on some paperwork related to a promotion I am considering applying for. It's a really involved process and I haven't had the head for it earlier, but I forced myself into it and am making progress today. Gosh it is boring work, but it is also a step forward to a future I don't need anyone else to supply for me. If I don't get it I will be fine, but I may as well try. Youngest is sick and home from school today so I'm going to turn off the computer now and have a cuddle with him on the sofa. In good spirits.
Journaling,
Yesterday was quite the ordeal as my boss changed my timesheet after she had signed it because VP decided to pay me at a lower rate. We had had a meeting about it on Thursday, and they did not honor it, so I will not be going back. (I'm a consultant, so I have this luxury). I was supposed to work at least until the end of the year and they made some offers of future permanent employment, but nothing in writing.
Instead of getting emotional about it, I was completely cool and was smiling on the way out. I was clear, direct and firm and even responded to the boss when she said I was being petty, "I'm not in to the personal attacks. You changed my timesheet after you signed it. I'm not ok with that. I will not be consulting for you any more."
Had I not been DBing, this would NOT have gone down like that! So thankful for detachment etc. I would have taken this so personally 2 years ago!! I would have felt worthless and less-than and have been face down in fudge under the bed for three days!! AND I would have continued to drag myself down there and act as if I deserved it.
Now? I woke up and yelled "hallelujah!" because I don't have to drive for 2 hours each way on monday!!
I don't know what I'm going to do now for a job, but H is still taking care of everything, so I'm going to do my best to find something closer to home. Might not make as much, but I will be ok. The greatest thing? I KNOW that I will be ok.
I didn't want any of this, but I am growing. I am so thankful for that. Listened to a sermon on the drive down "make the best of the mess".
My next thread will be titled that.
Thankful for the other standers here and for your encouragement and especially the laughs. I'm going to treat myself this weekend by buying myself some stupid expensive lipstick! ; )
H gone. Day 3. He has texted quite a bit. Encouragement for my meeting, checking in to see how I'm doing. I talk to him like an accountant. (Thanks, again for that!!)
Hope you are all doing well and making the best of your messes!!