Married 7, together 10, 2 kids, 4 and 6. Been on the rocks since August and in separate bedrooms since December.
I was following Mort Fortels's CD and plan and have read the DB book twice. We live together and co parent just fine and have been conflict free for about a month. No fights, just being, watching TV on the couch together etc just not much talking and no intimacy.
Last night she bring up one of getting an apartment for space so we can move on with our lives. She has brought of the D a couple of times and I told her that she will have to be the one to file bc I believe our communication issues can be worked on and improved and a great reconnection can be made if we move forward.
She says she does not to be with me and too much has happened to work it out, the old i love you but bla bla, I need space to miss you. Should I just ignore it all and keep being my best?
Thanks Choppy
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Yep got all of the above and I thought we were moving well towards being ok and then up pops the moving on with our lives conversation.
She said maybe one of us should get an apt. which would strain us financially and her parents live 1/2 mile away but she would be away from the boys. Some how she doesn't get it that I would be away from them too.
I guess I just wanted to confirm the "not believing what they are saying" and watch how they are doing and just stay the course.
I guess I just wanted to confirm the "not believing what they are saying" and watch how they are doing and just stay the course.
YUP - that is confirmed.
Believe none of what they say and half of what they do.
C,
I am sorry you are here right now but this is the best place you can be. For now I would put aside the Mort Fortel's CDs and give her space.
No fights, just being, watching TV on the couch together etc just not much talking and no intimacy.
Most guys think because there is no fighting or arguing that everything is ok. You my friend are in the friend zone right now. What guy does she have her eye on right now?
Last night she bring up one of getting an apartment for space so we can move on with our lives.
You simply say "I want to work on our marriage. If you do not and need space I understand that you feel that way. I will not try to stop you from moving out".
Can you provide more of the story?
She says that our arguments have pushed her away and thinks we have grown apart. I have thought there was someone else but I cannot confirm that there is unless I outwardly ask to see her phone and text messages. But if i'm wrong that would just add fuel to the fire.
Don't know what else to say. I thought everything was ok and then last summer it got rough and withdrawn after a big argument. Everyone has fights and we were no different. Not all the time but every couple of months over something I can't even remember what they were about.
she swears there is no one else and a good female friend that was my friend first says the same thing.
Choppy, when you get a chance can you give us more details, and background. As you know, Mort is fond of saying, "You can't fix in days and weeks what it took you months and years to get into." So what were the dynamics over the years that led you to this point?
I too did a combination of Mort's program and DBing. I think that Mort offers a lot of good insight into the mind of the "obstinate spouse", or what we would call the WAS. I also think he makes good points about not laser focusing on the problems in the marriage. What I think you have to be careful with that program is pressure and pursuit. And a lot of what he suggests is pressure and pursuit. Date night? Right after BD the last thing my W wanted was to go out on a date with me! Talk and touch charges are great, but not right away. You have to give the WAS time and space first. There comes a time when you can do those.
But he does have a lot of good advice, and a lot of good insight. I am happy to have found his program.
But Divorce Remedy is where it is at! DBing is the best approach because it focuses on you, not her. That should be your number one mantra.....focus on me....not her.
Also, you need to 180 on any poor behavior that contributed to your current sitch. You need to get out and GAL like a madman. And you need to detach. And work hard on that detachment, and get better at it over time.
It it password protected? Does she take it in the bathroom with her?
Choppy,
Sorry you are here. She is following the Wayward Wife script to a T. Same thing my WW did. Started telling me that I was pushing her away, which I was because I was pursuing her, that I was smothering her, that she needed space etc.
All blamed on me. I was being gaslighted to the max and she was/is sleeping with her boss. WW's don't need space to "move on". They want their own space so they can have a private place to screw other men. Again, sorry you are experiencing this.
Just follow everything you read here. Drop all expectations that your relationship is going to survive. Take a huge step back. Stop pursuing.
If you are suspicious and find something you will just hurt yourself badly. Even if you catch her doing something and cheating she will lie and blame you for it. So just start the DB. Focus on yourself. Stop all pursuit. Make decisions and do things that make you happy. Its time to fulfill yourself. Get healthy, do the big 180 and act completely different than you used to.
Stay cordial. Set boundaries. Follow through if the boundaries are broken. I elected to welcome a divorce from my WW because of how badly she treated me in addition to cheating on me. It hurts man. You will live. You will get through this. Keep posting here. If you want to talk to her about something, post here and get feedback. If she starts talking to you about anything, post it here and get feedback before you respond.
This place is gold. It will help you a lot.
I asked the boys last night if anyone would like to take the dog for a walk with all the awesome remaining light now and all. One said yes the other said no who she was cuddling with and then she decides to come.
She has complained recently that she likes when I'm out of the house sailing or running or when she is at work but then has the out to chill wo me but decides to come. Then on the walk I try to ask about a work project and I get a snide snicker and curt answer.
Can't figure it out but never giving up.
Past issues that she has brought up that lead to where we are now is us arguing every couple of months and both of yelling. Nothing vicious just loud voices about what ever it was. She walks away and I follow. Unfortunetly now I know with tone and volume..
Choppy
I asked the boys last night if anyone would like to take the dog for a walk with all the awesome remaining light now and all. One said yes the other said no who she was cuddling with and then she decides to come.
She has complained recently that she likes when I'm out of the house sailing or running or when she is at work but then has the out to chill wo me but decides to come. Then on the walk I try to ask about a work project and I get a snide snicker and curt answer.
Can't figure it out but never giving up.
Past issues that she has brought up that lead to where we are now is us arguing every couple of months and both of yelling. Nothing vicious just loud voices about what ever it was. She walks away and I follow. Unfortunetly now I know with tone and volume..
Choppy
It it password protected? Does she take it in the bathroom with her?
Yes and Yes
I asked the boys last night if anyone would like to take the dog for a walk with all the awesome remaining light now and all. One said yes the other said no who she was cuddling with and then she decides to come.
She has complained recently that she likes when I'm out of the house sailing or running or when she is at work but then has the out to chill wo me but decides to come. Then on the walk I try to ask about a work project and I get a snide snicker and curt answer.
Can't figure it out but never giving up.
Past issues that she has brought up that lead to where we are now is us arguing every couple of months and both of yelling. Nothing vicious just loud voices about what ever it was. She walks away and I follow. Unfortunetly now I know with tone and volume..
Choppy
Trying to figure her out is a fools game. This is why it is important to listen, validate, but be emotionally detached. You need to get to the place where what she does and says has no impact on you. This doesn't happen over night, you have to consciously work on it.
It it password protected? Does she take it in the bathroom with her?
Yes and Yes
That's what I figured. You have a wayward on your hands. Is an affair a deal breaker for you?
It it password protected? Does she take it in the bathroom with her?
Yes and Yes
That's what I figured. You have a wayward on your hands. Is an affair a deal breaker for you?
Agreed! My W never took her phone to the bathroom with her until her EA started. After it did she always took it to the bathroom. One of the most reassuring things to me is that now she never takes it to the bathroom with her. Change in bathroom behavior is one of the biggest red flags. My W went from never spending more than 5-10 minutes in the bathroom, to spending an hour in the bathroom. Now she is back to short bathroom trips again.
I'm not sure if it is an affair or a deal breaker
C,
Do you think if you asked her for her password she would tell you? Is there a reason for her to not allow you access to her phone?
You should probably start to think about whether it is a deal breaker for you and read up on boundaries.
I am really sorry you are going through this right now.
I'd also be very careful about asking for access to her phone at this point. I'd let it lie for now. The truth has a way of revealing itself over time.
And how are you doing now?
And how are you doing now?
We have been reconciled for over a year, and our MR is better than it has been at any other point in our history.
I take my phone to the bathroom with me all the time. It used to be the paper or a magazine, but now it's a phone. It's more about the secretive, guarded phone behavior than anything. And password protected doesnt necessarily mean anything either bc I have a password to keep strangers out of my phone, not to hide an affair.
I take my phone to the bathroom with me all the time. It used to be the paper or a magazine, but now it's a phone. It's more about the secretive, guarded phone behavior than anything. And password protected doesnt necessarily mean anything either bc I have a password to keep strangers out of my phone, not to hide an affair.
OB,
The question was for Choppy about his W. Not sure why you responded about you on his thread?
I take my phone to the bathroom with me all the time. It used to be the paper or a magazine, but now it's a phone. It's more about the secretive, guarded phone behavior than anything. And password protected doesnt necessarily mean anything either bc I have a password to keep strangers out of my phone, not to hide an affair.
It is more about changes in behavior. Phone and bathroom behavior included.
Awesome Steve
Thx for the good vibes
I take my phone to the bathroom with me all the time. It used to be the paper or a magazine, but now it's a phone. It's more about the secretive, guarded phone behavior than anything. And password protected doesnt necessarily mean anything either bc I have a password to keep strangers out of my phone, not to hide an affair.
OB,
The question was for Choppy about his W. Not sure why you responded about you on his thread?
To make a point that a password and taking a phone to the bathroom doesn't confirm suspicions of an affair.
If it is a change in behavior, then yes I agree with Steve that it doesn't look good.
Steve
What did you do? Apply the 180, Last resort and be the best you could and what for time to pass and her to come around?
She is 9 years younger (37) and is hung up on a fairy tale marriage and has compared us to another couple who are good friends that she thinks "always" get each other. I know for a fact that she is wrong bc talking with both of them together and separate about our sich they have and have had issues and stuck it out.
I wish the wife of the other couple that she occasionally talk with would just lay it out and say stick it out and work on it.
Thanks
Even if the wife of your friend told her to stick it out, your W may not listen. Either way, it's out of your hands.
Work on all your 180s. Start doing things you enjoy, and do them a lot. Figure out who you are and who you really want to be. Learn to detach your emotions from her and act from your morals. It's not easy .
OB,
I am just trying to open his eyes to what is most likely going on. I just thought it was odd that you would play it off as normal behavior.
Choppy,
Please answer the question. Can you think of any reason your W has a password protected phone that she keeps with her at all times including in the bathroom?
Choppy, yes I fully threw myself into DBing. GAL (which was never a problem for me, but I doubled down on it), 180s (I had a lot of bad behaviors to correct), and detaching. I struggled to detach, like most LBSs do. I read a book that opened my eyes to true detachment, referring to it as self-differentiation in marriage (Google that). Once I got good at differentiation and loving, emotional detachment, my situation turned around. And quickly.
Please note, my sitch was EXTREMELY rare in how quickly it resolved itself. I think part of that was that part of it was brought on by her impending 50th birthday. Once her birthday came and went, along with the changes I instituted, she seemed to come out of her fog relatively quickly. Please do not expect your W to turnaround that fast, it is EXTREMELY rare. I even hesitate to mention it most of the time as to not give LBSs overambitious expectations. You may need to DB for months or years. And it may never work on your spouse, but I guarantee you that it will work on you!
Everyone that DBs comes out a better person, whether they save their marriage or not. And they are much better prepared for their next relationship.
The kids have grabbed it in the past to play games on and they have watched her do the swipe code and as many people do to play Words with Friends while doing some business
So if you asked her to see her phone and give you the code what do you think her answer would be?
How have you or how did you keep the energy up when you may have wanted to give up and you win file and I'll sign.
Some days its just plain lonely wo the affection except from the kids adn it just get old always thinking and waiting to be served or a glimpse of hope to occur.
She would probably ask why I am so un-trusting and tell me that this is part of our issues. Because the kids admit to getting the phone and being caught on it.
How have you or how did you keep the energy up when you may have wanted to give up and you win file and I'll sign.
Some days its just plain lonely wo the affection except from the kids adn it just get old always thinking and waiting to be served or a glimpse of hope to occur.
Limbo has been described as "soul sucking" and I have been there and it's maybe the worst feeling I have ever incurred. You think about your kids and what they would think about dad giving up on keeping the family together. When this is over you want to be able to look at the man in the mirror and say you did everything in your power to keep the family together.
Are you exercising, eating healthy and getting enough sleep?
Choppy, agree with LH 100%. Limbo is rough. There are days you feel like throwing in the towel. For me I did things that kept my mind occupied. And I used GAL like a madman. For keeping my mind occupied, work, reading, consulting wth a lawyer, this forum, a very good new friend that I met on another forum that I kept in contact with, consulting with anti-D resources and authors etc.
For GAL, I went to the shooting range a lot. Hung out with friends. Just stayed as busy as possible.
Think about it this way: the more activity you do that is centered on her, the closer you get to pursuit and pressure. The more you do that has nothing to do with her the more time and space you give her. The latter is your friend. The former is the fastest way to push her away.
Steve 85, something you said the other day to another member on here really stuck out and resonated., the more you leave the WAS alone, and the more you change for yourself. Hopefully, the more the WAS realize over time, that YOU WERENT SOLELY THE PROBLEM. That makes perfect sense because if the LBS isn't around to cause a problem and the WAS is still having problems, obviously the LBS person isn't the problem anymore.
Steve 85, something you said the other day to another member on here really stuck out and resonated., the more you leave the WAS alone, and the more you change for yourself. Hopefully, the more the WAS realize over time, that YOU WERENT SOLELY THE PROBLEM. That makes perfect sense because if the LBS isn't around to cause a problem and the WAS is still having problems, obviously the LBS person isn't the problem anymore.
IHC, this is exactly right. WASs are notorious for blaming all the problems in their life on the LBS. By giving them time and space they CAN learn that their problems have nothing to do with the LBS. Unfortunately sometimes that takes separation and D for the WAS to understand that.
I'm staying busy with part of the remodel of one of bathrooms, sailing on Sundays, running and playing with my boys. But I feel bad taking time to myself and one of her issues she mentioned was more family time in one of our lists of changes we would like to see made. She has her time with crafts with girlfriends and volleyball but it is hard for me to not feel bad to take time for some thing I enjoy almost every Sunday.
So all in all I'm keeping active.
10-4 on the space and pursuit
Thanks
Hi Choppy,
Counter-intuitive. That is what this is.
You want to browse through her phone. Don't. The more you think that is a good idea, the worse idea it is.
Take your focus off of her and put it on you. Read up on ways to become more attractive:
Start here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224Coach is very wise. He seduced his wife back.
Read this:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2057372#Post2057372Steve85 reminds me of coach. He is very wise as well. Listen to him.
After reading this post something smack me upside the head with GAL and detaching. Many of you men and women alike, I'm sure that when you first met your spouse you were confident, strong, independent, unattached, etc. You obviously have the ability to attract them then. Overtime people do change they grow in different ways and sometimes apart. However.... What's smack me upside the head is, even though I intellectually got it on here from what everyone has stated, I'd like to make an attempt to piece it together a little bit better.
I still have yet to get to a place where I am not only the person that I was when I first met my wife but also a new and improved version of myself and redefining myself and how I interact with people who I am how I think what my mindset is excetera.
when people say on here that it didn't get this way overnight and sure isn't going to change for the better overnight. I think what they're trying to say is this.....
Even though it's very difficult because we all form codependency and Addictions on other people in our lives especially our spouses. What we think about consumes us, our thoughts, our emotions, etc. So when you actually GAL, do the work in therapy, detach, and put the focus on you. That increases your ability and efficiency to change. Collaboratively if you examine your past relationships and you see patterns of how you contributed to the downfall of them. If you can change those habits, you will present yourself to your spouse in a new light, perception, and attraction of old and new. I think the mindset of most of the WAS, is that they are convinced that you cannot change and the things that have been detrimental to the relationship will never change so they must end it and must leave for they must find someone else depending on whether they are Wayward or not. They will reinvent themselves depending on their desire to change or whether someone outside the marriage influences them to change. Some people have the chameleon effect we're all of a sudden they will start trying out a lot of new things because of outside influences. or some people may have requested their hopes and dreams for so long and have decided to fulfill them that they leave the marriage dead.
I understand the single life can feel lonely sometimes in desperate. But also trying to imagine the excitement and adventure, growth and change that it brought. Have you ever noticed that people make the most significant changes in their life when they decide to end a relationship? this is where the whole mindset of letting them go and rebuilding yourself to save the marriage, is built-in based upon atfraction, and increases your best chances. this is why you don't go in with the mindset of saving the marriage as you will just become more frustrated as some of us have mistakenly for some time.
A lot of the WAS are at this point not because they want to save the marriage but they legitimately feel like they tried, throughout the course of the whole marriage even though it feels like they didn't from our perspective I'm sure. What if you were just a Friendly Stranger enjoying their life, and you just happen to be meeting your spouse again for the first time. How would you act around them? Knowing what you knew then, and how you acted then and knowing what you know now? Somewhat friendly but detached but with boundaries right?
Here's another question for you? If you were to decide to go on a first date with someone right now. how would you act in front of them you probably put on your best self wouldn't you? Because it's new. What if every day was new? what if you didn't have to carry around the baggage from the past anymore? what if every day you did something just a little bit different than the last? What if you were able to interrupt with strategic planning interrupt the moments that you felt pain from all this? because there are patterns to your thoughts, your triggers, and your emotions. Journal them and find the patterns the best that you can and try and interrupt them.
Where are these posts?
thx
Choppy,
Please stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. I have merged your two threads together since you've not reached the limit. Also, you can change your subject line within a thread at any time.
I've implored the 180 and Last resort and been the best chill person I can. Getting stuff done around the house normal chores and taking care of the kids and a bit more and been conflict free for almost 3 week.
Now i'm seeing her mildly pissed off like Mort said I might bc I'm ruining her thought pattern of what she thought I would stay like. I'm not persuing or starting relationship convo's . But I feel Sunday she tried to bait me into an argument bring up moving on and apartments and space.
I stayed cool and told her "you need to do what you need to do" We ended the night by her going to the spare bedroom and all was cool with just a "good night" to each other.
Monday night she could have stayed at the house but decided to come for the walk with the dog and then Tuesday night offers to get me cookies and milk before we watch our DVR'd shows.
Thoughts? Is she reacting to the pull back or being nice to set me up for a bomb?
Most likely both.
Choppy can you put your ages, years together/married children and ages in your signature?
Still no papers after being threatened weeks ago maybe even 2 months ago that "if you want the process to go faster then you do it" . I responded I don't want any of this except to make it better and work on it.
I guess no papers is good news and I'll just keep on keeping on and DB'ing do my best 180 and killing her with kindness and household responsibilities.
C,
Be very careful with the killing her with kindness and chore responsibilities. You don't want to come off as a beta male man servant. Concentrate more on be busy by getting out and being mysterious.
Keep your expectations at zero. Usually when you take the pressure off it slows the process down.
Remember, limbo, while it is torturous, is the gift of time! She could have filed immediately, and be rushing towards S and D. When that doesn't happen, view it as a second chance! And you are spot on with your approach. DB. 180s. Be kind in the face of her anger. Forge ahead. Many vets here say: hope for the best but prepare for the worst.
10 4 on that Steve85
Will do.
Now its looking a bit more like Bi Polar of some level.
It does run in the family (brother was diagnosed with it)
Where do I go from here? I'm going to see our GP tonight so he can say I'm all good with my current dosage of Zoloft and Clanazapan (both are being taking bc of this marital turmoil).
But I'm going to bring up her moods and symptoms again. She has seen another doc in the practice and I'm her HIPPA contact so hopefully we can work out a plan.
Thoughts?
Now its looking a bit more like Bi Polar of some level.
It does run in the family (brother was diagnosed with it)
Where do I go from here? I'm going to see our GP tonight so he can say I'm all good with my current dosage of Zoloft and Clanazapan (both are being taking bc of this marital turmoil).
But I'm going to bring up her moods and symptoms again. She has seen another doc in the practice and I'm her HIPPA contact so hopefully we can work out a plan.
Thoughts?
Are you trying to fix her to help her? Or are you trying to fix her to save your marriage?
Cause I can tell you that if your motivation in doing this is to save the marriage, she will see right through it.
She wants space but goes back and forth wanting to hang on the couch after the kids have gone to bed to catch up on dvr'd shows and still haven't been served papers after it was brought up by her over a month ago.
I'm thinking of buying a fixer upper a few streets away. 1. It would actually be cheaper than renting and gain equity. 2. It would keep me busy and if we work stuff out I could sell it.
Thoughts on moving out and buying it? Mort Fertel says stay put and if someone wants space the one who wants space should be the one to move out.
Thoughts?
IMO, if she is the one that doesn't want to work on the marriage and needs space, she needs to move out. I would stay put. My H could not commit to working on our marriage, and I told him that perhaps it would be a good idea for him to move out for a couple of months and it might give him clarity. He agreed. That was Oct 1. He's no closer to clarity than he was back then, but I'm happy to be in my own surroundings. Stand firm.
still haven't been served papers after it was brought up by her over a month ago.
That's pretty common. If you remove the pressure then often they won't pursue D even though they may have threatened it very recently.
Thoughts on moving out and buying it?
I wouldn't make any big purchases right now, not until you see where things are going. Stay put. Like Grace said, the decision to stay or go should be your W's, don't make it for her. WAS's feel like their LBS has controlled and manipulated them so part of DB'ing is pulling back and giving them space and allowing them to make their own decisions. If you buy a place and move out then that may look like "more of the same" behavior to her.
Mort Fertel says stay put and if someone wants space the one who wants space should be the one to move out.
We highly recommend you don't mix-and-match approaches. Follow Michele's books and the DB'ing approach or follow someone else's, but don't try to blend them as it usually just causes you a lot of confusion. In this case his comment is consistent with DB'ing.
She wants space but goes back and forth wanting to hang on the couch after the kids have gone to bed to catch up on dvr'd shows and still haven't been served papers after it was brought up by her over a month ago.
I'm thinking of buying a fixer upper a few streets away. 1. It would actually be cheaper than renting and gain equity. 2. It would keep me busy and if we work stuff out I could sell it.
Thoughts on moving out and buying it? Mort Fertel says stay put and if someone wants space the one who wants space should be the one to move out.
Thoughts?
Do not move out unless court ordered to do so. That is my opinion.
Thanks guys DB'ing continues !
Well I think I really [censored] up. Last night she left her phone downstairs which she never does (she is in a upstairs) bedroom and I snooped. I turned the phone on and had saw her swipe her code in earlier in the day.
Earlier in the day we also ran into a coworker of hers (her boss) and chatted a bit at the store.
Backstory (A couple of weeks ago her phone chimed and it was face up as I walked by it and it said signal message. I asked her what Signal was and she told me it was a message app her and her coworkers use to fly under the radar on company phone bc it auto deletes messages after a set time.)
So at 2am I turned her phone on and went into Signal and a message was sent to her from him moments after we parted ways in the store saying(T'was a little awkward). And that was the only one bc the others timed out. So I went into her normal messenger and everything before Nov 30 is deleted. There was a couple of other weird texts. Her telling him Signal, FYI or Choppy is "sick" today. And something to the affect of 1/2 day for the kids on Friday and the other response "ugg" . His wife is a para-professional and would be home around lunch. We all live within 5 minutes of each other, work and school.
So when she turned on her phone this morning messages, facebook and other texts popped up as coming in at 2am. She asked me if I had turned her phone on and I said yes and then asked her why this guy would send "awkward" to her moments after us parting ways.
She rambled off some i don't knows and maybe this and that. They also attended a conference together with other workers in Nov. and travel together for a day a month for meetings.
We both walked away and went to work with me shaking my head, wondering.
Thoughts? DB squashed bc I broke trust or did I finally get to the bottom of why it is just a plain no go from her working on the marriage?
C,
You can't work on a marriage when there is 3 people involved. She i having an affair her boss.
Is an affair a deal breaker for you?
I don't know. I think I could get past it? But she will not admit it and keeps saying She does not want to work on anything and of course blaming me and if she does admit it they both would be caught in a scandel. So there is a lot riding on her keeping quiet.
Have you thought about asking her to move out?
I have and she said she wouldn't leave the boys. Even though her parents live just down the road. And she won't.
Thoughts? DB squashed bc I broke trust or did I finally get to the bottom of why it is just a plain no go from her working on the marriage?
Remember this: She has broken YOUR trust. Not the other way around.
Thoughts in a minute. First followup questons:
"DB squashed bc I broke trust or did I finally get to the bottom of why it is just a plain no go from her working on the marriage?"
What trust was squashed? If you are suggesting you squashed trust by snooping, stop that. What's worse, carrying on an inappropriate relationship with someone else, or snooping on a spouse's phone?
Maybe you did get to the bottom, maybe you didn't. This is why snooping is generally frowned upon because it leads to more questions than answers.
That leads into my thoughts:
The problem with snooping, and especially getting caught snooping, is all you did was to train her to take her inappropriate messages deeper underground. To take be more stealthy about what she does and who she does it with. I remember our first MC session last year, I mentioned to the C that full transparency was important to me. She was opposed, especially at that point in our sitch. And then she said something that has stuck with me: "The truth always has a way of presenting itself. If she is doing something inappropriate it will eventually come to light."
My W was sitting right next to me when the MC said that.
Snooping hurts you more than it hurts her. WWs will always have a 100 explanations and rationalizations. You could find them in bed with 3 other guys, and they would either rationalize or explain it away. Plus they can play on your desire to believe them to gaslight you. "He didn't say that!" "Are you sure that was the right day and time for that message?" "I think he was talking about something that happened at the office, not you."
Snooping rarely gets you anywhere. True, some will advocate for it early on in the name of "recon", but Choppy your experience is a perfect example. Your instincts for this are a better indicator than your "recon" in this instance.
Yes what Steve said. Snooping just exposes a bunch of confusing messages that you don't know how to interpret. Is it an affair? Or just two friends talking, or even coworkers talking? Who knows. And now that you told her you checked her phone you can bet she'll have that thing glued to her side now and will be even more diligent about covering her tracks. So in summary, you know nothing at all new and now she trusts you even less. Lose-lose. Don't snoop anymore.
So should I just straight up ask to see her phone? Or should I submit a Open Records request bc its a government phone?
C,
I think you need to play through the scenarios.
You ask her to see her phone and she says no. Then what?
You get her phone records and she has 1000 texts to an unknown number. Then what?
So should I just straight up ask to see her phone? Or should I submit a Open Records request bc its a government phone?
From what I know about the Signal app, it leaves no footprints. If you ask to see her phone you will see nothing unless there's an unread message or two that came in since she last logged on. If you request records you will find nothing at all. Jimmy if you are dying to know if she's having an A then hire a PI. It sounds like she's already pretty deep undercover, you're unlikely to find anything out through snooping.
Right now she is at her parents house down the road with the boys bc she developed a lung infection and has a chest tube to a draining box to measure the outflow. She need to be in a recliner and have special food for a bit.
I could also OPRA the gps in her work vehicle. Our truck which she drives around town sticks out like a sore thumb so taking that anywhere near his house would be a bad / weird idea.
She is out of work for another week or two and plays Words with friends with me non-stop yet Friday night at her moms house watching movies with the boys she texts me b4 coming over to not sit next to her or think we are a couple bc this is unfixable.
I think she did something and is trying to make me out to be the bad guy or frustrate me enough to proceed and start paperwork which I will not do. She also mentioned that when she heals she would like to move back into our house but only if i'm gone or we split the week where she would go to her parents house which is close and I would go to my parents which is a half an hour further away from work and friends.
Aggravated and trying to stay strong.
How can I try to get her to do a phone consultation or even see if she did do something I feel like I might be able to work thru it and forgive?
Or do I just sit, be my best and wait for papers?
She is out of work for another week or two and plays Words with friends with me non-stop yet Friday night at her moms house watching movies with the boys she texts me b4 coming over to not sit next to her or think we are a couple bc this is unfixable.
They all say stuff like that. That's a reflection of how she feels right now, but it may very well change down the road.
She also mentioned that when she heals she would like to move back into our house but only if i'm gone or we split the week where she would go to her parents house which is close and I would go to my parents which is a half an hour further away from work and friends.
That should be a big fat NO from you. Why should YOU be inconvenienced because SHE wants to split up. You are having to go through enough as it is, she's going to have to deal with the headaches of finding another place and all that.
How can I try to get her to do a phone consultation or even see if she did do something I feel like I might be able to work thru it and forgive?
Do not try to make her do any kind of counseling, it never works. If you mean a phone consultation with a DB coach then that is for you, not for her.
I did say no to the moving out and plus her parents live so close and 10-4 on the DB counseling.
Thanks
Hi Jimmy,
Where there is smoke there is fire. You have seen the smoke, no need to confirm the flames. Go looking for the flames and you will get burned. No need to get burned.
The smoke:
" Signal App" and "T'was a little awkward"
It is important for you to "act as if" you have seen the flames (confirmed A).
You are to become Alpha Male.
You do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with you. You do not want to share your woman with other men.
You agree that is is not working for you either.
Great reply Ready2Change.
And AnotherStander as well further up.
Keep up the good work guys, as many of us read these post replies and it pertains to us as well.
Sometimes I with there was a AnotherStander a Ready2Change, a Steve85, LH19, Ihcacls etc (and more, sorry I forget) wired in my head especially at night when I get the most anxious..
"If you’re depressed, you’re living in the past.
If you’re anxious, you’re living in the future.
If you’re content, you’re living in the present."
I got that from DnJ´s posts.
Live the present, face reality. Cool, calm, collected.
Time and patience are key factors.
Keep DB
Sometimes I with there was a AnotherStander a Ready2Change, a Steve85, LH19, Ihcacls etc (and more, sorry I forget) wired in my head especially at night when I get the most anxious..
LOL! The only difference between you and the "vets" is time. You'll get there. Believe me I spent a lot of sleepless nights myself after BD, tossing around all lost and confused, mind racing a thousand miles an hour. I think more than anything I come here just so you and others know you WILL be OK, and even awesome :-) I was as low and lost and despondent as anyone here, and I don't have any special superpowers that got me to where I am now. If I can do it then anyone can do it, I really do believe that.
Great reply Ready2Change.
And AnotherStander as well further up.
Keep up the good work guys, as many of us read these post replies and it pertains to us as well.
Sometimes I wish there was a AnotherStander a Ready2Change, a Steve85, LH19, Ihcacls etc (and more, sorry I forget) wired in my head especially at night when I get the most anxious..
OMG, I would have so much fun.
Thanks again guys. You guys coming back here to offer that time gained wisdom is gold for us. And you do it on your own. Thats a rare exception these days.
I am located here in Greece and I have read many of your responses as a sort of "scripture" to my sister who is consoling me these days and we have these 'a-ha' moments.
I dont know, but I wish my psychologist could be half as good as you are. I write down all these notes to get his insight, and his response is so generic and flat. Nothing like the expertise here. Only difference he is 3 dimensional.
For instance I read a great description of MLC by DnJ yesterday on the MLC forum which was so spot on it was crazy.
Thanks again!!
How many have heard and how many times has it been heard "let me tell you the marriage is over, I dont mean to hurt you but........"
Go. And of course please add some of the always awesome guidance and wisdom bc once again I feel like I'm circling the drain. grrŕrrrree.
JR,
Every person here has heard it in one form or another. Mine was " I can't help it that my feelings changed".
The quickest way back to her is to go in the opposite direction. Start to build an awesome life for you and the kids and maybe some day she will want to join you.
Time and space are the only thing that turns these situations around long term.
And did they come back?
Thanks
We don’t have the data because most move on and don’t update us. From the research I have done it typically takes the WAS two years to realize they made a mistake. At that point the LBS has moved on and is no longer interested in recon.
Of course there are outliers.
So do I file and show her I mean business or let it lay and let all matters stay in her hands and timeline?
I don't want a divorce. I want to keep the family together.
I tried to initiate D last week. Don't do it unless you are absolutely 100% sure from a place of strength and non emotion and not fear and emotion that you are 100% done with this person in your life. Trust issues and all. Otherwise it will backfire. Get your papers ready for that day. They may change their minds or feelings again. You are dealing with a deluded thinking emotional creature. Do you understand what detachment and boundaries does? It shows you are willing to walk away from this non sense. These power plays. It gives you value and self respect, it protects you, and your family. They may not care, or they may eventually care and snap out of it. Its a matter of self respect, value, battle of wills, what is right to you and for you. You cannot convince them, so let them go, and let them walk. There are no tricks or shortcuts.
JR,
You answered your own question. You will not get the response you’re looking for. The person who cares the least about the relationship is the one in control. She’s in control right now but that will change if you choose for it to happen.
In all likelihood your W is having an affair. Is that a dealbreaker for you?
So do I file and show her I mean business or let it lay and let all matters stay in her hands and timeline?
I don't want a divorce. I want to keep the family together.
IH and LH said it. You don't file to "get a reaction" out of her, because she wants D anyway so all you are doing is giving her exactly what she wants. Plus you are doing the work for her so that's a bonus. AND the cherry on the cake is she gets to tell everyone "well I wasn't sure what I wanted but HE was the one that pushed the divorce through so I had no say in the matter." So she gets to blame you too! It's a win-win for her!
If you don't want a D then do NOTHING. Don't talk to her about it, don't send her texts/ emails/ article links, just pull back and give her time and space. Often when the LBS removes all pressure then the WAS no longer feels the need to push for D.
Thanks all
LH19, what do you mean if I choose it to happen?
I will stand down and continue DB'ing.
Jimmy
If i'm invited to her parents for Easter dinner should I go?
I have to go there to drop the boys off from a easter egg hunt thing.
Thanks
I don't want a divorce. I want to keep the family together.
99.9% of the poster have said the same thing.
The reality is that if your spouse wants the D, it is out of your control and your family will change.
You do have control on how your interact with your spouse. How you behave when you are around your spouse. How much you interact with your spouse.
Dbing is about controlling these things. Work on being attractive. Work on showing your spouse a "better" you. THIS DOES NOT HAPPEN OVER NIGHT.
One small, positive, permanent change a day adds up to a great you over time. Your spouse will notice.
JR,
What I mean is right now I am happy with my life and nothing my ex does effects me in any way. If in the future we reconcile it will be because I choose to and will be under the terms I lay out.
If i'm invited to her parents for Easter dinner should I go?
I have to go there to drop the boys off from a easter egg hunt thing.
Sounds like it's more of a kid thing so personally I would go if you get asked. But don't invite yourself. Don't ask your W on dates, and don't be too available to her if she asks you to do things or go to dinner or whatever. But when it comes to kid activities it's different because you can focus on the kids rather than W.
And when she gets pissed that I'm not willing to split time in the house let her get pissed and stand my ground?
She says she wants the boys to be stable in their own house and right now she is down the street at the inlaws while her lung issue heals and the boys are able to stay here some night and there some nights bc of my work schedule.
Splitting time would put me a half hour further from friends, work, and the boys.
So we'll see but my lawyer says stay put.
And when she gets pissed that I'm not willing to split time in the house let her get pissed and stand my ground?
Yes. You can't placate her right now. Just rolling over and giving her everything she wants is going to make her have even less respect for you. Don't let her decision to end the marriage inconvenience you any more than it has to.
Funny it sounds like to me, she is still operating under the dynamic that she is still your W from all the raging because of her not getting her way with personal time/ time away from the kids. Think about that? She wants to get out and party more and be sociable, but at the same time, out of retaliation, she wants to go full custody? That makes total sense....lol... More me time, but more kid time makes total sense in their world.
Mine has similar complaints. Just ignore it, and ignore her, but do set a boundary, and make her aware of it CAMLY about scheduling conflicts if she yells. Don't treat her as your W anymore, and don't allow her to treat you as a H. She fired you from that position. Remember? It's resentmrnt spewing out of her. Do what's best for you and what makes you happy, Go and GAL, but be fair in scheduling.
What about family or friends that she might have or did tell of her intentions or thoughts of the D?
Dont ask her anything of who she told? Act as if? And keep on keeping on?
Just trying to keep my head straight.
As always, thanks.
What if there was an affair?
Should I ask and tell her that I don't think it is a deal breaker and I believe we can work through it? Or wait until I receive papers and then ask and tell?
Thoughts?
Thank
Jimmy
JR,
There is a 95% chance there is an affair. You definitely don’t want to indicate you can work through it because right now she doesn’t want to work through it.
Keep moving forward and make all decisions based on what’s good for you and the kids.
Should I ask and tell her that I don't think it is a deal breaker and I believe we can work through it? Or wait until I receive papers and then ask and tell?
This is not something you discuss. If you do not want to share your wife with other men, you set a boundary. If you are ok with other men being with your wife, then there is nothing to discuss.
Still no positive ID of an affair but she has been at her parents house since she has had a horrible very serious lung issue and needed to be taken care of and I need to still go to work.
Boys have slept back and forth and all is ok but she is still on the mend.
She has asked if I would split time in the house when she is better which means I would be 30 minutes further from work, friends etc. My lawyer and I agree that I will say no to splitting time and she is welcome to come home. 2 weeks ago just out of the hospital she said she did not want to share the house.
Any suggestions on wording of "your welcome to come home and be with me in the MBR or the extra spare room but I'm not leaving or splitting time". Should I mention working on stuff or just leave it flat that she can always come back into the house and we can all be under one roof.
Thx
W I understand that you need time and space but I am not moving out and abandoning the children. You are welcome to comeback if you so choose.
Don’t bring up the logistics unless she asks and then make it clear you are not leaving the master bedroom.
Please start a new thread and link the threads together. Thanks!
Any suggestions on wording of "your welcome to come home and be with me in the MBR or the extra spare room but I'm not leaving or splitting time". Should I mention working on stuff or just leave it flat that she can always come back into the house and we can all be under one roof.
I would just stick to "I am not leaving the house." Anything more than that ("You're welcome to come back", "why don't we work on the M") is just turning it into a R discussion and applying pressure. If she proposes moving back in then your reply should be along the lines of "I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that but that is your choice to make."
You've reached 10 pages so it's time to start a new thread, give it the same title as this one and "part 2". Link this thread in the first post of your new one and in your last post in this one put a link to the new thread.