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Posted By: LB55 Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/06/19 06:09 PM
Previous Thread

Quick summary, W filed for divorce in December 18, temp orders hearing was 4 Feb, received the temp orders for review on the 28th from her L.

Have a new place to live, reading books, working on myself, working a lot. Having fun with the kids when I have them.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/06/19 06:12 PM

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I see no mention of a lawyer. You do have one, right?



Yes I have a L, she is on board with my plans. I have a conference call with her today to discuss my issues with the way the temp orders are written and get them worded better so we can send them back to W and her L for review.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/06/19 06:25 PM
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Man LB, I just want to offer some support. I seriously want to puke every time I read the custody, child support, and alimony number you're throwing out there.

I've gotten stuff from goodwill too. It's not bad at all!


Thanks for the support. The numbers are pretty absurd, she just doesn't understand the concept that her choice to file for D means that she no longer receives my income, and that she doesn't continue to get a free ride. She is asking for $5100 AFTER the mortgages are paid. Free spending money. Says she needs all of it just to get by. She wants me out of her life, wants me out of the kids' lives, yet wants my income to keep rolling in. Not going to happen.

She has accused me of squeezing her financially. Yes, I am doing that. She is welcome to get a job if she needs more money. I am paying child support to ensure they aren't destitute. I won't pay spousal support until the amount is agreed upon. This is the only angle I have to get her to negotiate on other items like time with the kids. It stinks to have to do it that way, but because of the way this has played out, its the only position of power that I can play from.

She is so used to me yielding to her and her needs, that every time I stand up for myself and set a boundary, I am perceived as demanding and unwilling to see things from her perspective. Example: "I was lied to multiple times in this process; I do not trust your word. In order to be able to trust you, the 'misunderstandings', lies, and twisted words must stop. I want to have an open and communicative relationship through this process, but right now I must protect myself legally and emotionally." W: "Its not my fault you can't trust me, its yours. You need to be more responsible for your emotions and stop blaming me for your problems. I know you are angry, but don't blame me for your anger."
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/06/19 10:12 PM

You have the $numbers from the temp orders. What do YOU think the numbers should be after the 50/50 parenting is in place? Did this get presented to the judge?

Has your W ever worked? My friend married a woman who RETIRED from Microsoft. She became stay at home mom. They got divorced. It was ON HIM to prove that she has EARNING potential. I believe his maintenance payment was reduced based on this fact.


From my POV you are getting pushed to settle for something. I am not sure if you have Counter-claims.

I am not a fan of the legal system. I believe it is up to you to make counter claims other wise the judge only has ONE side to conciser. Just my two cents.


I am wishing you the best through this. You seem to be getting bent over more than anyone I have seen.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/06/19 10:19 PM
"I was lied to multiple times in this process; I do not trust your word. In order to be able to trust you, the 'misunderstandings', lies, and twisted words must stop. I want to have an open and communicative relationship through this process, but right now I must protect myself legally and emotionally." W: "Its not my fault you can't trust me, its yours. You need to be more responsible for your emotions and stop blaming me for your problems. I know you are angry, but don't blame me for your anger."[/quote]

Less words brother.

H"It is best if we handle that through the lawyers"



You cannot reason with this woman. She is like my X. In time maybe. not now.

Take that Anger and channel it into action. Use it to light a fire under your L to get your midweek visits.

Use it to get a transcript of the hearing.

I don't mean be angry with these people. Just use it as a clue that you need to take action.

Look here for effectively channel emotions:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094



Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/07/19 03:49 PM
LB, I agree with R2C, I think you're trying to talk to your W way too much when you should just be letting it all filter through your L. She may change and become less confrontational somewhere down the road but it's not going to happen anytime soon. Contact should be limited to strictly discussing the kids.

Originally Posted by LB55
The numbers are pretty absurd, she just doesn't understand the concept that her choice to file for D means that she no longer receives my income, and that she doesn't continue to get a free ride. She is asking for $5100 AFTER the mortgages are paid. Free spending money. Says she needs all of it just to get by. She wants me out of her life, wants me out of the kids' lives, yet wants my income to keep rolling in. Not going to happen


I'm sure she knows she's not going to get it all, but her approach is to go for as much as she can and hope she can get most of it.

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She has accused me of squeezing her financially. Yes, I am doing that.


No you're not, this is all her doing. She has handled this whole thing in the most vile, despicable manner and any fallout from it is 100% on her shoulders.

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I am paying child support to ensure they aren't destitute. I won't pay spousal support until the amount is agreed upon.


Have you been ordered by the court to pay anything yet? If not I wouldn't be paying her a cent based on her complete lack of sympathy or remorse or interest in working with you on ANYTHING. If she can't afford the kids then fine she can turn them over to you. If she wants you to give her money out of the goodness of her heart then she can work with you on visitation. Quit giving her everything when she is giving you nothing (unless you've been court-ordered).

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She is so used to me yielding to her and her needs, that every time I stand up for myself and set a boundary, I am perceived as demanding and unwilling to see things from her perspective.


I doubt that's her perception, I think she is engineering everything to suit her needs. She knows you're not being "demanding" or unfair but she is going to play the victim card whenever possible to try and coerce you into doing what SHE wants you to do. She's trying to control and manipulate you, and she's largely getting away with it.

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I want to have an open and communicative relationship through this process


That's just not going to happen. You need to treat her as the enemy for now, because that's how she's treating you. So you need to protect yourself.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/09/19 12:02 AM
AS

Thanks for that. You make some good points and I am seeing some things differently because of my position.

I say that to myself every day...'W, this divorce is your choice, its not my problem that you don't like the consequences of your choices.' The hope is that if the time and situation comes I can say it in person. Not out of anger, just to get it off my chest.

I am emailing too much about stuff. That's just a hard thing to break. I try to not respond if there isn't a question, and its very hard to not respond to accusations that are untrue. Will keep working at it.

The temp orders are not signed yet. It took her a month to get them reviewed and to our side for review. I just had them sent back to her L for review. However, my L advised me to pay her the state recommended child support based on the state worksheet to stay in good standing with the court in case we have to go back to court since we are so far apart on the temp orders' content. Her L 'needs to do some client management' is what mine said. I know they are just eating up our money, but mine at least acknowledges that its a waste of our money and she would like to get this settled.

I know she is trying to control me, and that I need to use less words less often. Executing that is a different story. I am not blowing up her email by any means, but I have replied twice this week to things that I found unacceptable to let linger. I will work on my tolerance and letting the rain run off the duck's back. She has always been an excellent manipulator and this is the only time I have really stepped back and seen it. It makes me so upset when I think about how she has used me for all these years and is trying to continue using me. I talked with my L yesterday to make sure she is aware that I am feeling that way and I would like to be a little more of a bully back until they are willing to negotiate on my priorities. She is willing and the temp orders we sent for review are good for me monetarily and as good as I can do right now with work for a schedule with the kids. Mid week visits every week and every other weekend.

Thanks for your advice, I really appreciate it!
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/09/19 12:08 AM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change


Use it to get a transcript of the hearing.


Take that Anger and channel it into action. Use it to light a fire under your L to get your midweek visits.



My L is getting a copy of the transcript as I requested yesterday. We will be using it if we have to go back to court.

I requested a mid week visit on Tuesday every week in the most recent version of our orders. We will see.

I will work on using less words. So hard. I am working on setting boundaries for myself with her, maybe its not the right time? I thought telling her that I don't trust her was appropriate. You disagree? Or just use less words?
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/09/19 02:25 AM


Right now is the perfect time to set boundaries.

A boundary is how you protect yourself. It is about how you respond. It is not required to state it.



When you lie to me, there is no reason for me to trust you.

When you lie to me, there is no reason for me speak with you.


What is your boundary on protecting your relationship with your children?
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/12/19 04:02 AM
What a crazy 24 hours. No I didnít have sex with my W. I did have some actual conversation, about 15 minutes in the driveway last night when dropping the kids off. She let me have them for a couple extra hours, gave me some items from the house, worked out a deal for me to have my son on Thursday and to have my daughter next week one night. Made a plan to pick up my motorcycle, and she will even give me a ride to the house to get it. It was crazy, she hasnít spoken to me other than via electronic methods since thanksgiving. She initiated it and we talked a bit about how both of us contributed to this, she apologized for lying to me; it was good. However she still doesnít see that this is still her choice and the consequences she is suffering from are from her choices. I didnít point that out; just listened and validated her feelings. We talked about the temp orders, she was surprised that I told her about the monetary details and the proposed time with kids and the proposal to come to the house and get some things. She said our proposal was to come to the house when she wasnít there and take everything I wanted. I calmly explained that the way the orders were written that I would come to the house, take stock of everything, propose a list for agreement and come back a different day to get those items. It seemed as if she had no idea what was in the orders.

Then I get an email from my L today saying we are going back to court because they donít agree with our temp orders. I sent W an email asking what is up with that and can we discuss it? She called me and we talked for 2 hours. Turns out she never even saw the orders proposal. Her L just said Ďnoí and never even asked her for her thoughts. What a POS. This explains so much about our legal communications. He hasnít presented her with any info since the initial filing, instead just working to keep her angry at me through poor twisted communications.

This is incredibly frustrating. She has been getting goaded into a continued fight that she doesnít want, and he is just taking her money. My L knows now too, and is encouraging my W and I to work out some of the legal details without wasting more money. My L isnít a money grubbing POS thankfully. She makes plenty donít get me wrong, but she acknowledges that we are just wasting our money for things that donít need a L.

We had a lot of good conversation today about the last year(2hours of call) things we have both done right and wrong, and itís so evident that I have made progress to me, validation, communication, not solving her problems for her, listening for a couple extra seconds to make sure she is done before replying. It was nice to talk with my friend, Ive missed that.

Not reading much into it, as she is still whining about money and how I am trying to starve them out and stuff. We did have some productive conversation. She acknowledged my commmunicationw have improved, and that I looked good in my new clothes, itís nice to know because I feel good in them. She said I wonít be single for long, then later on some hints at something maybe in the future. Not reading anything into it, but it was nice that we could just talk. I could sense some tension building as we tried to discuss finances so I ended the call nicely and efficiently before any progress made was lost.

She is really struggling under the weight of her choice but I canít help with that. She canít see that her choices have caused her problems, not going to point it out either. Has to realize on her own. It was nice to have a sign of life out of her. Might be a storm again tomorrow but a little calm is nice to have.
Posted By: Vapo Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/12/19 08:59 AM
Thank you for the update LB.

However I must caution you, that the WAS's brain is weird, tomorrow he might not even remember you talked and that might question your own sanity.

And take everything you think she's agreed to with a grain of salt. It is not uncommon for them to negate everything...
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/12/19 12:23 PM
Originally Posted by Vapo
Thank you for the update LB.

However I must caution you, that the WAS's brain is weird, tomorrow he might not even remember you talked and that might question your own sanity.

And take everything you think she's agreed to with a grain of salt. It is not uncommon for them to negate everything...


Definitely taking with a grain of salt. She is still wandering in her own world. We talked about a bunch of stuff, and all the legal stuff then went in an email to her and then she replied back to me with some questions and mostly agreement with what was written/said. So thatís my documentation for right now.

This isnít about restoring or working on my R right now, itís about getting her to trust that I am not out to get her like her L is telling her. If we can stop the vitriol he is injecting into her head to anger her this will be a lot calmer. She seems to actually want me to spend time with the kids, her L is the one that keeps telling my L she doesnít want me to be a part of the kids lives because Iím so dangerous. His character is coming out in a hurry here.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/12/19 07:50 PM


It looks like time and space helping.


Do you have your house fully setup for the kids?
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/13/19 02:14 AM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change


It looks like time and space helping.


Do you have your house fully setup for the kids?


Yes and the kids will be here over the weekend next week. They are super stoked to spend the night here.

She cancelled the court date on Friday so we can actually get a good product on thetemp orders. She has gotten more legal info in the past 48 hours from me than in 3 months from her lawyer.
Me feeding her factual info is building some trust in her that I am not this angry person that is out to screw her over that her lawyer has been feeding her.

Strange thing happened today, a person that worked for me came in late because he had been kicked out by his girlfriend. Same story of pursuit, doing all the smothering things, inability to validate, always using the Ďyouí statements, trying to control everything and take care of everyone in his life. Man the schit really came out when I talked to him for 3 hours. He has some advice on detaching a bit and says his evening at home is going fine. She left with the truck and he is playing his guitar. Crazy how the Lord puts people in just the right spot at the right time to help others. He is me 3 months ago.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/13/19 12:34 PM
LB, that's all awesome, you are doing great! Excellent job of listening and validating while also protecting your rights. Try to continue to keep those communications positive and business-like, that's working very well right now. That's amazing progress that she's gone from not budging an inch to suddenly letting you have time with the kids. All fantastic news.

As for your coworker, yes once you get BD'd then you'll be surprised how many other LBS's you encounter. Pass the knowledge on!
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 02:23 AM
AS

I am pretty happy with the progress. It is awesome! Not because I am restoring my R, but because I can talk to my friend and I get to see my kids way more. Taking my son to dinner tonight tomorrow and my daughter skating Friday.

W has turned off the court date for Friday. Once we both agree on the temp orders we will set a date to enter them.

My co worker is flailing big time. Trying to keep him focused on himself and not controlling things he has no control over. His girl left him today because work kept him late and she needed a ride from him. He is super busy blaming himself for being responsible and getting the job done at work. Iíve told him he canít control her, let her go, take care of yourself. He is making himself a steak dinner and playing his guitar. He doesnít buy in to the GAL concept yet, sits at home waiting to see if she comes home. I am forcing him to go to dinner with me on Saturday to get him out.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 06:58 PM
Journaling...

Today I am to get a ride from W from my new place to the house to pick up the motorcycle. Its nice that she can help me out with that, and it will greatly reduce my cost of commuting and improve my parking options. (i have a long bed 4 door truck as my primary transportation) I am kind of nervous about it, even with the positive vibes the past few days. I am still kind of shell shocked from the whole ambush that was the serving of papers at Christmas. Its going to take a long time for me to be able to trust her.

I read through some emails I saved from last year while deployed, saying how much she trusts me, how she can't imagine a relationship without me, how moving forward in our life and relationship after the military is going to be amazing, how good of a dad I have been, how she is so lucky to have found someone that took her in even with her history of issues, she can't imagine what life would be like if we hadn't met, etc. It was a time in which we opened up to each other more than we ever had about things, it was so refreshing, she confessed a bunch of things that had been bothering her stemming from childhood, I told her a bunch of things including issues with my family growing up, it was truly amazing. We were able to talk via email about things that we never felt comfortable bringing up before and we both felt so much relief from sharing those with each other. These emails were from Jan-Aug 2018. They did allow us to actually have in person conversation about some of it too, and that was really a healthy dynamic. I was seriously looking forward to returning to a much healthier marriage than I left. We were good but had always had communication issues. Thought we were slowly overcoming some of those with the more open and honest communication. We both said that this might just be the best deployment i have ever been on. Between August and November everything changed and we are now at this point. Its all just so confusing.

With the recent string of emails, she has been using just the first letter of my name to address me, and the first letter of her name to sign off. Its something we did during that year of deployment; kind of a term of endearment that nobody else could use and we both knew what the other meant. I have been reluctant to start that again, and continue to use the whole first name for both of us. It has a lot of emotional meaning to me when I use just a first letter. I don't know if it still holds meaning to her or not. Trying to not read into it but its difficult.

I want to work on the R badly, I have made a couple subtle hints and so has she about 'maybe in the future' and so forth without any concrete definitive overt statements. I told her I won't bring up any R talk and I intend to not do that. I am worried that she might and I need to be ready to just listen and validate as appropriate without any venting of frustration or hurt back towards her. I can do it.

I have to work hard at controlling my emotions. This wave of nice has kind of taken me aback and I have allowed my mind to start thinking about us again vice moving forward for myself. I did go to the gym yesterday to try and keep doing things I want and need to do.

I am hopeful that today goes well, that I am able to continue this friendly conversation, as it is making my life way easier in regard to the kids and legal stress. However I am still waiting for that next time I get stabbed in the back as soon as I let my guard down.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 07:16 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Journaling...

Today I am to get a ride from W from my new place to the house to pick up the motorcycle. Its nice that she can help me out with that, and it will greatly reduce my cost of commuting and improve my parking options. (i have a long bed 4 door truck as my primary transportation) I am kind of nervous about it, even with the positive vibes the past few days. I am still kind of shell shocked from the whole ambush that was the serving of papers at Christmas. Its going to take a long time for me to be able to trust her. .....
However I am still waiting for that next time I get stabbed in the back as soon as I let my guard down.


I would avoid being alone with W like the plague. She lied to you about picking you up at the airport. She can claim anything she wants. I hope I am wrong. Seen it too many times.

Get a friend to drive you to get the bike. Take a cab. Drive your truck and leave it parked nearby. Pickup truck later. Uber might be an option. LiFT. Walk. Ride a bycycle.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 07:28 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I read through some emails I saved from last year while deployed, saying how much she trusts me, how she can't imagine a relationship without me, how moving forward in our life and relationship after the military is going to be amazing, how good of a dad I have been, how she is so lucky to have found someone that took her in even with her history of issues, she can't imagine what life would be like if we hadn't met, etc.


Don't read that stuff, it'll mess with your mind. No mind can process how things can so quickly from her being loving and doting to treating you like a leper. It makes no sense, and the more you read old stuff and walk down memory lane, the more confused you will be. And the more convinced you will become that this is just a hiccup and if you say or do the right thing she will snap out of it. But she won't, not anytime soon. Time and space are all you can give her right now, and you need to give it to her in abundance.

Quote
With the recent string of emails, she has been using just the first letter of my name to address me, and the first letter of her name to sign off. Its something we did during that year of deployment; kind of a term of endearment that nobody else could use and we both knew what the other meant. I have been reluctant to start that again, and continue to use the whole first name for both of us. It has a lot of emotional meaning to me when I use just a first letter. I don't know if it still holds meaning to her or not. Trying to not read into it but its difficult.


This isn't unusual. WAS's can sometimes start out really vile and mean and angry, then when you remove all pressure and they realize that you're not going to try to cling to them or stop the D from happening then they don't feel the need to be mean anymore. She's getting what she wants so there's no need for that. But be careful because if you start pressuring her then she will go right back to being a mean girl.

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I told her I won't bring up any R talk and I intend to not do that. I am worried that she might and I need to be ready to just listen and validate as appropriate without any venting of frustration or hurt back towards her. I can do it.


Yes, good. Yes you can do it, you are well-informed now on how to deal with it.

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However I am still waiting for that next time I get stabbed in the back as soon as I let my guard down.


I doubt you will be turning your back to her anymore (figuratively speaking).
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
I would avoid being alone with W like the plague. She lied to you about picking you up at the airport. She can claim anything she wants. I hope I am wrong. Seen it too many times.

Get a friend to drive you to get the bike. Take a cab. Drive your truck and leave it parked nearby. Pickup truck later. Uber might be an option. LiFT. Walk. Ride a bycycle.


I understand your points and all are things I considered. I will put my phone on record in my pocket just in case. I am prepared to ask her to stop and let me out if needed.

I am trying to build some trust for both of us, I need to be able to trust her as the mother of my kids, and she needs to be able to trust me to follow my word. Its a 5 minute ride, I can keep things friendly for that long.

I am a much stronger person now, even if I have my weak moments. Journaling is me stating my fears vice holding them in. Have to face the fears is what the books say, and as MWD says you just 'act as if' and that is what I am going to do.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 07:43 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by LB55
I read through some emails I saved from last year while deployed, saying how much she trusts me, how she can't imagine a relationship without me, how moving forward in our life and relationship after the military is going to be amazing, how good of a dad I have been, how she is so lucky to have found someone that took her in even with her history of issues, she can't imagine what life would be like if we hadn't met, etc.


Don't read that stuff, it'll mess with your mind. No mind can process how things can so quickly from her being loving and doting to treating you like a leper. It makes no sense, and the more you read old stuff and walk down memory lane, the more confused you will be. And the more convinced you will become that this is just a hiccup and if you say or do the right thing she will snap out of it. But she won't, not anytime soon. Time and space are all you can give her right now, and you need to give it to her in abundance.

Quote
With the recent string of emails, she has been using just the first letter of my name to address me, and the first letter of her name to sign off. Its something we did during that year of deployment; kind of a term of endearment that nobody else could use and we both knew what the other meant. I have been reluctant to start that again, and continue to use the whole first name for both of us. It has a lot of emotional meaning to me when I use just a first letter. I don't know if it still holds meaning to her or not. Trying to not read into it but its difficult.


This isn't unusual. WAS's can sometimes start out really vile and mean and angry, then when you remove all pressure and they realize that you're not going to try to cling to them or stop the D from happening then they don't feel the need to be mean anymore. She's getting what she wants so there's no need for that. But be careful because if you start pressuring her then she will go right back to being a mean girl.

Quote
I told her I won't bring up any R talk and I intend to not do that. I am worried that she might and I need to be ready to just listen and validate as appropriate without any venting of frustration or hurt back towards her. I can do it.


Yes, good. Yes you can do it, you are well-informed now on how to deal with it.

Quote
However I am still waiting for that next time I get stabbed in the back as soon as I let my guard down.


I doubt you will be turning your back to her anymore (figuratively speaking).


Yes I know I am taking a trip down memory lane and shouldn't do that. Haven't done that in a while, and need to get back on that horse again. It does lead to this confusion, and I can't let that cloud my mind.

I won't be applying any sort of pressure, only making sure I keep myself in check while making sure that she knows where the line is that shouldn't be crossed.

Thanks for the affirmation, I can do this. I have missed my motorcycle and it is a good component of GAL for me moving forward. Something I can do by myself of with others, meet new people, and even contribute to charity or good causes through group rides and things. It will be pleasant for more than just a better parking spot at work.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 08:19 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Its a 5 minute ride, I can keep things friendly for that long.

I got the impression it was a longer ride. What type of motorcycle? I have honda shadow. It is covered in snow. Almost rode it 2 days ago...spring is almost here.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/14/19 10:26 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by LB55
Its a 5 minute ride, I can keep things friendly for that long.

I got the impression it was a longer ride. What type of motorcycle? I have honda shadow. It is covered in snow. Almost rode it 2 days ago...spring is almost here.


I have a Harley road king 2006 vintage

Supposed to be almost 70 here this next week, summer and motorcycles go together well in the northwest
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/15/19 12:22 AM
Ok uneventful trip to get the bike. Some nice small talk, she started in on how hurt her feelings were by me not supporting her startup business and this and that. I just validated with I can see how that would be tough and so forth.

Then it shifted to money; more listening but I didnít validate her feelings that I was squeezing them financially, just listened.

She kept wanting to talk more and more, I ended it and had to get home with the bike. Have to go back and get my son for dinner tonight. Going to get him some baseball pants and have a dinner just the two of us.

Overall it was a neutral conversation. Faced the fear and it worked out. I told her I was a bit worried, she said she was too, but we both were able to agree the facing our fear is the right answer. Keep on doing what I do.

Was fun to ride the bike! Itís been 15 months since I was on it. Itís super dirty but I left it on a battery tender and it fired right up for me. Will be nice to use it to have some GAL now.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/16/19 09:52 PM
Wow I went to little league today and I made it through but couldnít hold it in any longer once I got home.

I was very involved in little league, had lots of friends there and we as a family did lots with the local teams and league. I havenít been there since she chose this for us, and it was really hard to go there and not be a family any longer. I came home and just cried and am still pretty emotional. Thought I was doing ok with all this. Very hard day. She is very happy to ensure everyone of our friends knows that this is what we wanted and is best for us. I want them to know itís not what I wanted nor what I think is best; i am not going to stir the pot there though. Not the right time or place as thatís about the kids and not us. She seems to just want everyone to know how awesome she is and how amazing her life is and that she is just so happy without me. I know I need to let it go and not be emotionally involved anymore but itís jsut hard.

Havenít had a tough day in a while, today is definitely tough.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/17/19 06:20 AM

Crying in private is good for you. It is a good emotional release.

Alpha male mantra:
"I do not want to be with a woman who does not want to be with me"
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/18/19 12:29 AM
Thanks R2C. I need to repeat that mantra to myself regularly.

A good day today to counteract yesterday. Got up, made a good breakfast, got cleaned up and went to church, then got home and detailed the Harley(it was bad!), Then took it for a nice 90 minute ride, weather is gorgeous today and supposed to be about 70 the next few days. Definitely not in riding shape, got to build up to it.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/23/19 10:18 PM
Well all progress lost. W had ameeting with her L and we are back to square one.

She now wants me to provide all previously listed amounts, she is now asking for backpay to the date she filed for all bills and utilities that she paid for to live at the house. That I was restrained from living in. This is so stupid.

Has it in her head that she is entitled to everything we have and I should t have anything because this is my fault.

Back to the lawyers for all communication.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/25/19 02:13 AM

Sorry to hear this. I am not surprised. Best thing you can do is understand your legal rights. The lawyers will try and get as much money from you as they can. PIA
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 03/25/19 12:28 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I have a Harley road king 2006 vintage


Nice! I have 4 bikes, one of them is an 07 Street Glide. Such an awesome highway ride!

Originally Posted by LB55
Well all progress lost. W had ameeting with her L and we are back to square one.

She now wants me to provide all previously listed amounts, she is now asking for backpay to the date she filed for all bills and utilities that she paid for to live at the house. That I was restrained from living in. This is so stupid.

Has it in her head that she is entitled to everything we have and I should t have anything because this is my fault.

Back to the lawyers for all communication.


Good grief! Unfortunately this isn't that unusual, WAS's will hold the olive branch out and then yank it away, throw it on the ground and stomp on it. She's hellbent on "punishing" you but she's really fired all her bullets at this point and the magazine is empty. And you are still standing.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/03/19 09:34 PM
Just a quick update. Not much has changed with W and her stance. Everything is my fault and blah blah blah. She tried picking a fight with me in the driveway a couple days ago while I was dropping the kids off. Telling me how Iíd be less angry if I would just give her what she wants and we can both move on. She said something about how this is my fault and I should take responsibility for my actions.

I did something Iíve never done before. I replied Ďgoodnightí. I walked to my truck and I drove away. She yelled ĎI guess you are going to force me to take you to court, huh?Ē As I was walking away. Closed the door and drove away. No communication since then.

Iíve never walked away from her before I would just stand there and take it. Iím proud of myself for not needing the last word and for walking away from a no win situation.

Supposedly we are going back to court next week. My attitude is lets get it done. This has drug on too long and I am at the acceptance part of this and ready to get on with my life without her drama and stress. The kids love coming to my house, they have both told me they would rather live here; thatís not possible legally nor practically right now. Itís. Not best for them to have to get up at 430Am for a babysitter before school. Another year and a half and that might change we will see. My work schedule could be way different then because I would be moving to a new job with better hours while still serving. We will see.

Been going out a couple nights a week; riding the motorcycle other days, little league umpiring, so things are good. Not on here too much because Iím busy, which is a good thing for me. Iíll post updates as things change.
Posted By: Tryhard Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/03/19 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by LB55


Supposedly we are going back to court next week. My attitude is lets get it done. This has drug on too long and I am at the acceptance part of this and ready to get on with my life without her drama and stress. The kids love coming to my house, they have both told me they would rather live here; thatís not possible legally nor practically right now. Itís. Not best for them to have to get up at 430Am for a babysitter before school. Another year and a half and that might change we will see. My work schedule could be way different then because I would be moving to a new job with better hours while still serving. We will see.

Been going out a couple nights a week; riding the motorcycle other days, little league umpiring, so things are good. Not on here too much because Iím busy, which is a good thing for me. Iíll post updates as things change.



That is how to do it nice GAL , I am in awe of you , knock Ďem dead
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/04/19 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by LB55
I did something Iíve never done before. I replied Ďgoodnightí. I walked to my truck and I drove away. She yelled ĎI guess you are going to force me to take you to court, huh?Ē As I was walking away. Closed the door and drove away. No communication since then.
Well done!
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/14/19 02:26 PM
Just a quick update. Went back to court, have temp orders now, but I filed a motion to amend them because itís been so long since the hearing that things have changed a lot financially. So we will be going back again Friday. Her lawyer refused to amend them before filing, claiming that was against the law. It is t but he wouldnít budge.

W continues to yo-yo between reasonable bordering on nice and raging crazy wants to see me dead so she can take mylife insurance lady. One thing that is consistent day to day...this is my fault. Itís my fault that we have to get divorced, itís my fault the kids are upset, itís my fault she needs more money, etc.

Itís even my fault that my son struck out in a baseball game last week. He struck out because of how I was sitting in the stands. Evidently I was sitting in a mean way and it distracted him so much that he struck out. Thatís what W told me anyway. How does she come up with this stuff?

I am trying to move forward, this whole thing still makes me angry. Not everyday, but some days. Yesterday and today Iím prettyworked up about the whole thing. My life is stressful as it is, especially at work, and now adding in home, family, kids, money, and divorce stress, itís tough to see the light at the end of the tunnel and that fear of the unknown is upsetting. Working to detach but she is playing war with me and using the kids as pawns in it. I refuse to fight back in that way but itís upsetting.

Not much else to report, will update after the amendment hearing on Friday.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/14/19 05:49 PM
Toughest thing you will most like go through. Keep standing your ground on what is right.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/15/19 06:57 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Itís even my fault that my son struck out in a baseball game last week. He struck out because of how I was sitting in the stands. Evidently I was sitting in a mean way and it distracted him so much that he struck out. Thatís what W told me anyway. How does she come up with this stuff?


I've been here a while and read hundreds of sitches and your W definitely ranks in the top 5 most memorable on the crazy scale. She may even be number one. I don't know what happened to her but it just defies explanation. You would think she'd be happy to see you there supporting your son but no, there's literally nothing you can do that results in anything but contempt, hatred and resentment from her. All you can do is keep being you and leave her riding on the Crazytown Express.

Quote
I am trying to move forward, this whole thing still makes me angry.


Of course it does. You are human! Don't try to fight those feelings, find healthy outlets for them.

Quote
Working to detach but she is playing war with me and using the kids as pawns in it. I refuse to fight back in that way but itís upsetting.


At the end of the day you will be able to stand tall knowing you handled yourself throughout with the utmost dignity, and that will earn you respect from everyone (even her eventually). I definitely have a ton of respect for you and I've never even met you. Hang in there, you're doing great.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/16/19 10:37 PM
AS,

Yes the crazy train is in full runaway train mode. Thatís amazing to me that this is a top 5 memorable case. Itís killing me. Not the kind of memories I am into making.

I am trying to get all my stuff done for the court, showing compliance with all their junk they want me to do. I am keeping my mindset on the Ďright by would I want to be with someone that doesnít want to be with me?í mantra. It works for me.

This very much feels like itís more about punishing me than it is about divorcing me. She keeps saying via her lawyer to the court that I am bullying her and not being fair to her in any way. Youíve seen the numbers above, youíve seen the story of how this unfolded; itís only my side but you make that decision. She told me in an email the other day that this is about me not respecting her and she is going to need to feel respected before she can proceed. This sounds like those people on tv demanding respect when they havenít done anything to earn it. She had every ounce of my respect for years. Staying home with the kids while I was deployed. Taking care of the house while I was deployed. Finances, cooking, cleaning, parenting, being mom and dad at the same time. Itís all part of being a military spouse. Respect those that you know in your life. Itís a hard job too.

I cannot understand. I have mostly stopped trying to. The scientist part of me wants to figure out why. The practical part of me knows I never will and getting out ASAP is the best answer. This angry cycle she needs to keep going must stop. I will fight for whatís right but I will sacrifice to get it over with sooner. I still havenít been to the house to get any of my stuff, I have what she left for me in storage. The amended orders we are filing on Friday should allow me to go get my things.

Her lawyer is just a greedy POS. He tried arguing that rental house income isnít income because itís not from a job. What an idiot. She is getting $3425/month from rental homes but that shouldnít count as income to calculate child support and maintenance. We just have to make sure our case is bulletproof and he will get steamrolled. Iíd donít hate my W. Her lawyer...he is a liar and I would treat him to the same treatment Bin Laden got it I could. He could careless if I ever saw my kids again so long as he gets paid. Heartless pile of crap.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/17/19 02:33 AM

The lawyers play their games to get as much cash from two emotional people as possible.


You have handled this sitch better than most here.


I feel for you. I am not a law expert, but I know there are claims/counter claims and objections. Many people settle without being ordered by a judge which then becomes the legal order.


I read all the child support and divorce statutes here in CO. I was going to hold hard during some of my later negotiations, but then I got "pro-se" written into the agreement. I bent on the child support to get the lawyers out future negotiations.


I recommend doing as much research as you can. Lawyers also play with words. Find legal definitions of income. Find other cases. I am just throwing ideas out there.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 04/21/19 08:57 PM
We finally have some temp orders, I still donít agree with them but they are better than before. I have to keep telling myself they are temporary and will get the rest of this moving forward.

I have been able to get some things from the house, still got a ways to go on that. Itís amazing how much work she can do around our acre lot with her two bum knees that have kept her inside reading romance novels for the last few years. All the neighbors chipping in to help her because of this tough spot she has been subjected to. Such absurdity.

We are at least able to talk, so long as the topic doesnít shift to money. She told me the other day she thinks a fair and equitable distribution of our assets is me keeping my military retirement and her keeping all 3 homes we own. Basically her portion of my retirement would be about $750/month and she currently gets $3425/month in rental income. Sounds fair and equitable right? Just had to be do be right there.

I am traveling for work stuff for the next 3 weeks, saying goodbye to the kids really tore me up last night. They were fighting because they knew they had to go back. It was just as hard as leaving back at thanksgiving when she told me to stay somewhere else. I shouldnít have left then, but thatís in the past. I had such a vivid dream the other night, we were talking, happy, hugging, I could smell her hair scent, felt so good to have that physical contact, then I woke up to a truck beeping as it backed up to the grocery store loading dock.

Ugh. This whole work for 12 hours then make it to baseball and eat and shower and sleep plan is making it tough I do anything but brood unhappiness. I rarely have time to do something I want to do unless I skip seeing my son play ball.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/16/19 05:27 PM
Not much change in the situation, doing ok here. Doing my best to GAL and be a Dad.

Got a regular Monday night event with some guys from work, that is a good thing. Got back on the field yesterday as a football referee, got a couple more games before the end of spring football. Will pick that back up again in the fall. Put 700 miles on the Harley in the past couple weeks.

Still working to get my house together, need to buy a table, kids and I are tired of eating on the couch or the floor.

I'm getting closer to the point of not having a reaction when she tells me things like 'I have plans Friday night, so make sure you pick up the kids on time'. I have my reaction in the truck, and I yell at her there, by myself, and get it out, but she can't get a rise out of me anymore on much of anything, she keeps poking and prodding to see if she can. Picking a fight with me has been her way to keep power over me, since I would apologize for whatever she blamed me for every time.

Ready to be done with the process, so the proverbial noose around my neck can be removed. She likes having that power over me and controlling my finances via the court. It will be over soon enough.

Starting to get interest from other women. Hard to not cave and just start a new relationship, given that its been 18 months since I lived at home, even though its only been 5 months since she filed.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/16/19 05:42 PM

Thanks for the update.


W: 'I have plans Friday night, so make sure you pick up the kids on time'.
H:"I can pick them up early if that will help."
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/16/19 06:26 PM
I would be fine with that, however I can't leave work earlier. Pickup time is entirely traffic dependent.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/16/19 07:58 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I would be fine with that, however I can't leave work earlier. Pickup time is entirely traffic dependent.

It is more about caller her on her BS. Even if you can only get there 5 minutes earlier than normal.


H:"Stuck in traffic" text lets you show up later if needed.


Other option:

W: 'I have plans Friday night, so make sure you pick up the kids on time'.
H:"Absolutely. Make sure you have all their stuff ready to go. "



I have had these stupid battles before. The more ridiculous, the more effective.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/16/19 08:12 PM
Good points, thanks. I'm still not sure why these conversations need to exist. I'm in the military. Being late isn't a thing.

I do update via text if traffic is delaying me.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 03:00 AM
W has been texting me all evening. ĎWhen are you going to be here tomorrow?í ĎGive me a time frame so I can plan!í ĎSurely you can get off early.í She is getting quite agitated!

Must have a killer date!

I just keep telling her I get off about 4 and will text her when I leave.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 01:16 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
W has been texting me all evening. ĎWhen are you going to be here tomorrow?í ĎGive me a time frame so I can plan!í ĎSurely you can get off early.í She is getting quite agitated!

Must have a killer date!

I just keep telling her I get off about 4 and will text her when I leave.


Good, just stick to business. It sounds like she's trying to trigger you. Just let it roll off of you, not your problem. Oh and don't feel obliged to answer every single text if she just keeps saying the same crap. Just say "I've already told you I will be there at the normal time, please plan accordingly and don't keep asking. I will inform you as soon as I can if anything changes."
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 01:53 PM
Ah the entitlement of the walkaway set.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 02:55 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
Ah the entitlement of the walkaway set.


The entitlement is surely a thing! Its amazing. Every time that we have a conversation about getting the D process moving and over with, it rapidly turns into her telling me what she is entitled to.

That is the point that I say farewell and leave. I will not discuss entitlement. I despise that word. I despised that word long before this process. Nobody on this planet is entitled to anything in my opinion.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 02:58 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by LB55
W has been texting me all evening. ‘When are you going to be here tomorrow?’ ‘Give me a time frame so I can plan!’ ‘Surely you can get off early.’ She is getting quite agitated!

Must have a killer date!

I just keep telling her I get off about 4 and will text her when I leave.


Good, just stick to business. It sounds like she's trying to trigger you. Just let it roll off of you, not your problem. Oh and don't feel obliged to answer every single text if she just keeps saying the same crap. Just say "I've already told you I will be there at the normal time, please plan accordingly and don't keep asking. I will inform you as soon as I can if anything changes."


I didn't reply to all of her texts. I replied twice with the same answer and then stopped replying.

I felt the same way, she is just trying to get me agitated because she knows that if she can push my buttons she is still in control. Unfortunately she can push my buttons, but I am getting WAY better at not showing her that she has pushed my buttons. This is key in my opinion.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 05:53 PM

Traffic forecast in your area is looking pretty congested around 4p. LOL (Just my sarcastic passive aggressive side coming out).


Seriously, don't take any of her BS personally. If this becomes a pattern, then address it with a boundary.

Enjoy you time with your children. Smile at W during exchange time and tell her "Have a great evening!" and sincerely mean it. While driving over there, forgive her, forgive her, forgive her some more. Be as calm and happy as humanly possible. Project that to her. Believe me, that works the best.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 06:28 PM
Yeah its Friday, it might just be congested. :-) Seriously though, this isn't about me not wanting to get the kids early or anything, so please nobody take it that way. Its also not about punishing her, I am not going to just cave to make things easier for her though.

I take a lot of stuff personally, it is something I am working on with everyone in my life, not just W.

I am having a tough time with forgiveness for W, I am a pretty forgiving person, but man this is a tough one. The whole situation, the lies, the attempts to remove me from the kids lives, the selfish behavior, the lack of personal responsibility for her own choices, etc. Just burns me up. If she just said she was leaving and genuinely wanted to get this over with, I wouldn't really be that hurt and would be quite cooperative. Its the deceit, back-stabbing, and dis-information that really irks me.

The smirk on her face every time I see her...I feel like she is having fun with this game; I want her to feel my pain but I know that isn't possible.

Oh and I just thought about this...she said she is putting together a nice fathers day gift for me with the kids to 'honor' me for giving her the best part of her life. What does that even mean? She told me this like a month ago, and i think it was a passive aggressive way to guilt me into getting her something for mothers day. I get that the kids are important to both of us, but I don't want to be honored by someone that so blatently disrespected the entire family with her choices. I certainly didn't do anything gift wise on mothers day for her. A simple text wishing her a nice day with the kids was all I did.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by LB55

I didn't reply to all of her texts. I replied twice with the same answer and then stopped replying.

I felt the same way, she is just trying to get me agitated because she knows that if she can push my buttons she is still in control. Unfortunately she can push my buttons, but I am getting WAY better at not showing her that she has pushed my buttons. This is key in my opinion.


Perfect! You're doing great LB, keep it up!
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 07:39 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Seriously though, this isn't about me not wanting to get the kids early or anything, so please nobody take it that way.
My understanding is you are venting your frustrations here to us that relate. I also understand that you would like the"Digs" to stop, or at least not affect you.


Quote
I am having a tough time with forgiveness for W,
One of the hardest things we do. It is also one of the most rewarding. "radical forgiveness" was a great read. "This has nothing to do with me". I say these words to myself all the time. Some guy flips me off in traffic...should I forgive him or let his negitive energy affect my attitude? Same with the X.


Quote
The whole situation, the lies, the attempts to remove me from the kids lives, the selfish behavior, the lack of personal responsibility for her own choices, etc. Just burns me up.
Of course. Your eyes are wide open to who she really is. You have learned. You are more mature now.

Quote
The smirk on her face every time I see her...I feel like she is having fun with this game;
Who knows. Who cares. You also have the choice to make it fun or not. You have the choice to pull the rope or not. Once you let go of the rope, she can pull on it as much as she wants, but it is not fun for her if you don't pull back.

Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 08:28 PM
Quote
My understanding is you are venting your frustrations here to us that relate. I also understand that you would like the"Digs" to stop, or at least not affect you.


Yes R2C I am just venting, since I didn't make it clear.

I haven't seen any 'digs', not worried on that front. I respect the folks here, we've all been through this in our own way, and I appreciate everyone's experiences and advice. If I need to hear that I am F'ing something up, I trust that some of you will let me know so that I can fix myself or my mindset.

Was just trying to make myself clear, likely moreso for myself than for anyone else. I've read a lot on here, and saw some people that were just doing things to be mean, and I wanted to convey that this isn't about me punishing her but rather just not making it easier for her plan her fantasy life.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 08:36 PM
Quote
The smirk on her face every time I see her...I feel like she is having fun with this game;


Quote
Who knows. Who cares. You also have the choice to make it fun or not. You have the choice to pull the rope or not. Once you let go of the rope, she can pull on it as much as she wants, but it is not fun for her if you don't pull back.


This is a really good way to put it.

I'm not pulling on the rope anymore, but I'm not sure I've completely dropped it either. She can still yank me around, so I guess proverbially I haven't let go yet. I am at least able to see her yanking now, and minimize my reaction to it.

You are right, for all I know she doesn't even have plans tonight and is just trying to get a rise out of me or make me feel bad all weekend wondering what she is up to. Kids and I are going to put together the dining room table I bought, and then we are going to eat and play games on it.
Posted By: SoloFlex Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 08:46 PM
Just out of curiosity.... when does this ugly behavior start? Immediately after the BD?

I'm on guard for it, and I see reading everyone's post and they all reference it....... when did it start for you LB?
Sounds to me like you're doing really good and staying strong in a really demanding sitch.

-SoloFlex
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 09:11 PM
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
Just out of curiosity.... when does this ugly behavior start? Immediately after the BD?

I'm on guard for it, and I see reading everyone's post and they all reference it....... when did it start for you LB?
Sounds to me like you're doing really good and staying strong in a really demanding sitch.

-SoloFlex


Thanks for the encouragement, I am doing the best I can, whether I am personally good, that might be debatable some days anyway. :-)

I can't say for sure when it starts. I was gone with the military, when I got home, everything was my fault, I couldn't do anything right, our history was completely twisted around, and she filed for D. I was given papers by a courier in a gas station parking lot when I got off the airport shuttle where she was supposed to pick me up. Complete with restraining order, 3 days before Christmas. I didn't get much warning, lets say that.

As for nasty behavior now, 5 months later, it is pretty much a guarantee when she doesn't get her way. When I don't agree to her demands, or when I am not able to help her by leaving work early, or when I sit in the stands at little league looking 'mean' and my son strikes out; all my fault and its not really determinable what strikes the mood sometimes.

Nothing is rational, the reason she has no money is because I don't pay her enough, not because she spends a lot, refurnished the whole house, hired a bunch of work done, bought all new clothes, etc. Me having a job that requires me to stay until the end of the day is not convenient for her when she makes plans and im supposed to pick up the kids after work but she makes plans that start before the end of work.

Its a no-win situation until the WW takes some responsibility in the situation in my opinion. Im not there in my situation, we are stuck at 'everything is my fault because I did all of this to her' stage.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Kids and I are going to put together the dining room table I bought, and then we are going to eat and play games on it.
Sounds like a great plan.

Enjoy your weekend.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/17/19 09:35 PM
Originally Posted by SoloFlex
Just out of curiosity.... when does this ugly behavior start? Immediately after the BD?
When they have OM.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/20/19 01:01 AM
Kids are reading after a busy weekend before they have to go back to W. Iíve been reading too. Validation and non-defensive listening. I know Iím not good at validation nor empathy, but Iím hoping if I read about it enough and try to execute it on other people I might get better at it.

I feel like a validation expert after an hour of reading but Iím sure that I have a long ways to go. Makes me want to strike up a conversation tonight with W when I drop them off. Itís probably not a good idea, so Iím posting here instead.

Just something simple; like how was your week? Then just listen and not offer solutions, repeat back what she said to show Iím listening, eye contact(this is a tough one for me, I always look away quickly with anyone), and stay neutral, even if she is blaming and accusing. I donít have to agree to validate.

These are scary thoughts. Why do I want to talk with this woman? She doesnít want me. Iím still in fixit mode I think. Stupid nice guy stuff. I canít fix her, but I sure do want to fix this marriage on this particular Sunday afternoon. I miss my daily family life so much.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/20/19 03:33 PM
So I wound up having a discussion with her, it was mostly her talking, I listened, validated her feelings and viewpoints on what went wrong. I refrained from providing my viewpoints, or counterpoints to hers, as this was about me working on my listening and validation skills more than getting my point across.

I think it went well, she is still angry, still blames me for our problems, its my fault that she had to choose D, she has tried for all these years and I ignored her. She isn't wrong, I wasn't emotionally available to her mostly, I kept myself locked up inside and didn't share my true feelings with her very often.

I am mostly happy with how the hour passed, talking in the driveway. She tried to leave once, not angrily, but to try and end the conversation before we got into anything past the surface discussion. I didn't say anything, I just stood there, and she turned around and came back and the conversation continued.

I asked her to help with a timeline for getting the D complete, and she anticipates it taking 2 years or so before we are done. I told her I would like a shorter timeline, because I need to move forward in my life. She didn't say much other than we can't make a mistake with our assets that costs us both dearly. I definitely got the tone of 'I am unsure that I want to think about it being final yet and certainly don't want to do the work to get there. I don't want you doing it either though'.

She did reflect a bit on some good times we've had, laughs we've shared, and when life together was good. It was nice to reminisce a bit. I miss my friend so much. She said that it would be nice if we could sit together at a baseball game, and I told her I would like that too.

I told her I am open to more in person conversations, and less email/text, because she typically takes my written communication out of text. I told her I enjoyed talking, let's do more of this, and said goodnight. All in all, I think it was a good productive conversation and I was able to demonstrate some maturing emotional intelligence to her without overtly pointing it out(something I would have done in the past...see what I've done dear? Im working so hard for you!)

One of the things that I identified, and I didn't point this out to her, but its totally the wrong mindset for love. This is what she told me, and I wrote it down to remember it because it was so wrong in my mind. "I wanted you to love me the way I wanted, not the way that you wanted to love me." Basically that sounds like 'I don't want the gift you lovingly picked out and gave to me, because I want something else.' Selfish? Wow.

Why do I punish myself? Love shouldn't be punishment. It does take effort though. Effortless relationships are the stuff romance novels are made of. But yet I still love her. Not pursuing her, but I'm not doing a good job at letting her go either. At least not the past couple days. I am so desperate right now for some close physical contact. Not sex, just a sit on the couch watching a movie holding hands kind of contact. This is tough.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/20/19 09:33 PM
Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.

She is really into blame and fault finding. If there isn't someone to point the finger at the problem isn't solved for her. Such a youthful mentality, because if a building collapses and kills 5 people does pointing at the engineer and laying blame fix the building or the dead people? I've learned in my career that all blame and fault finding does is make people shut up about actual problems and take a defensive stance. I'm trying to not get defensive when I'm listening to her. So tough because I'm a rational and logical man, and this is completely opposite.

Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry? I can win a war of attrition with anyone. I just want a fair deal that we can both agree on, I'm not out to screw her over in the name of protecting myself. Unfortunately the same is not true of her. That a consistent theme...that this is her standing up for herself and protecting herself. How is telling the judge that 2 hours per month with the kids is what I deserve protecting herself?

I know to not believe what she says, nor to read too much into anything.

I will just keep listening when she talks and validating her feelings. Cant hurt. Good practice for me and shows good change to her. Will she recognize it? Hard to say. Not my problem to worry about.
Posted By: Vapo Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by LB55
Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.


Why do they throw on the brakes? Simple answer. Because they want you to remain on the hook. They want you as a plan B, in case the "romance of the lifetime", "the soul mate", does not pan out. They want you to be miserable and on standby. They want to be free to roam the pastures and you right there where they can see you, chained to the fence. So they WILL use their wily ways to keep you in limboland. You might even get some terms of endearment. That completely fcucks us men up. We, men, are mostly logical creatures. We trust words. Women know that. They use words against us. IMO you will do yourself a favor if you do not listen to her and get on with your healing ad growing. Remember, trust nothing they say. This saying was not conjured up from thin air...
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 01:13 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.


Well like Vapo said she probably wants to keep you on as Plan B. You've also done a pretty effective job of removing all pressure from her. You've handled yourself with dignity despite her terrible treatment of you and that may very well have her thinking that maybe you're not the demon she had convinced herself you were. But I think you are getting ahead of yourself inviting her to have these nice convos with you, for now you should really try and maintain as much distance as possible. Stick to "business only", just talk about kids hand-offs and such. It's too soon to try to reconnect with her.

Quote
Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry?


Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 02:40 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by LB55
Ok so question here, one of her comments to me when I asked about putting together a timeline to get the D moving was this: "Why are you in a hurry? Got wife #2 lined up already?"

I simply replied that I would like to see forward progress for my own health, and that I don't have wife #2 lined up already, because that isn't fair to anyone involved.

I'm sure I've read this before, but why do they throw the brakes on D so quickly? I mean this is her only goal in life since December, and now that I want to move forward instead of dragging my feet, she wants years to evaluate her finances and make sure we don't make a mistake financially? D is a financial disaster.


Well like Vapo said she probably wants to keep you on as Plan B. You've also done a pretty effective job of removing all pressure from her. You've handled yourself with dignity despite her terrible treatment of you and that may very well have her thinking that maybe you're not the demon she had convinced herself you were. But I think you are getting ahead of yourself inviting her to have these nice convos with you, for now you should really try and maintain as much distance as possible. Stick to "business only", just talk about kids hand-offs and such. It's too soon to try to reconnect with her.

Quote
Her anger is still clouding her thinking ability. She still wants to punish me for everything, I believe anger is behind her actions to take the kids away, to kick me out in the way that she did, to fight over money so hard, etc. How long can one stay angry?


Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.



Thanks for the insight and compliment on my behavior. I am working hard to change my attitude and behaviors, specifically with non-defensive listening and validation of feelings without agreeing.

As I thought about it last night at dinner with friends, I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health. Regardless of what she wants or does, I am going to get my ducks in a row and schedule the mediation and if needed set the trial date to get this over with. I discussed with my L my desires, and she is going to help me get the process moving. I don't need it to finish ASAP, but I can't sit in limbo because its driving me crazy. If I want the situation to improve, I've got to drive the bus now.

I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.

I'm not trying to reconnect in the sense of re-kindling the M. Her personal space bubble is still about 7 feet, i don't try and get closer, just talk from there. She is very scared and is putting on a front of standing up for herself and happiness. I'm simply at this point trying to establish some non-threatening and effective communication paths. If that leads to reconnecting, then great! If not, it will still be a useful thing for us to be more effective communicators. We both struggled to convey what we wanted, instead hoping the other would figure it out because they loved us, and it led to lots of resentment and anger. She has done what she has done, while it hurts, I'm not angry about it, no matter how many times she tells me she knows that I am angry.

I'm going to keep working at it, moving forward for me and the kids.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Yes this is exactly why I'm suggesting maintaining distance. She will be angry at you as long as you are present. Remove yourself from the equation and she'll eventually discover her anger was misplaced, that you are not in fact the root of all her unhappiness.



Its so easy to see from the outside. Wish I could help her see it too, but I can't.
Posted By: neffer Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 03:07 PM
I often challenge S14 out of his confort zone. Like doing some new sport or similar. His first reflex reaction is saying "I canīt". He has learn to get a PMA so he says heīll try.

Try it LB. Trust yourself. Free yourself. You need that space too.

Be strong there man. Time and patience.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 03:10 PM
Quote
One of the things that I identified, and I didn't point this out to her, but its totally the wrong mindset for love. This is what she told me, and I wrote it down to remember it because it was so wrong in my mind. "I wanted you to love me the way I wanted, not the way that you wanted to love me." Basically that sounds like 'I don't want the gift you lovingly picked out and gave to me, because I want something else.' Selfish? Wow.


I get where you're coming from here...you're right. But so is she. I recommend reading the 5 Love Languages. People don't always realize that your gift of love is just that...because you aren't speaking their language. People communicate, and love, in different ways.

Keep going forward and doing what you need to do. She may jump back onboard and she may not. But you'll cross that bridge if the Bridge Crewmembers ever get around to building it.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 03:25 PM
Originally Posted by neffer
I often challenge S14 out of his confort zone. Like doing some new sport or similar. His first reflex reaction is saying "I canīt". He has learn to get a PMA so he says heīll try.

Try it LB. Trust yourself. Free yourself. You need that space too.

Be strong there man. Time and patience.


I am trying to keep a PMA. I'm not always successful, and those days are the worst. I need to continue to work on this for me. I've never been much of a positive outlook guy, and that needs to change.
Posted By: neffer Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 03:32 PM
Well, thatīs the attitude man!
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health. Regardless of what she wants or does, I am going to get my ducks in a row and schedule the mediation and if needed set the trial date to get this over with. I discussed with my L my desires, and she is going to help me get the process moving. I don't need it to finish ASAP, but I can't sit in limbo because its driving me crazy. If I want the situation to improve, I've got to drive the bus now.
Sounds like a great plan.

Most LBH do not do things that gain them the respect they need that may re-attract their W. This will gain you respect.


You have done an amazing job at controlling your emotions and doing the right thing through out this.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 08:51 PM
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
Quote
One of the things that I identified, and I didn't point this out to her, but its totally the wrong mindset for love. This is what she told me, and I wrote it down to remember it because it was so wrong in my mind. "I wanted you to love me the way I wanted, not the way that you wanted to love me." Basically that sounds like 'I don't want the gift you lovingly picked out and gave to me, because I want something else.' Selfish? Wow.


I get where you're coming from here...you're right. But so is she. I recommend reading the 5 Love Languages. People don't always realize that your gift of love is just that...because you aren't speaking their language. People communicate, and love, in different ways.

Keep going forward and doing what you need to do. She may jump back onboard and she may not. But you'll cross that bridge if the Bridge Crewmembers ever get around to building it.



I agree ovr, it isn't all me, nor is it all her. Our perceptions and opinions can both be right. I have not read the book, but I have read about each of the languages. Mine is acts of service and physical touch. I asked her in November what hers was and she said communication. Since that is not an overt option, I can say in my opinion hers is some mix of words of affirmation and quality time.

The words of affirmation are why I'm working hard at non-defensive listening and validation of her feelings. If I can understand her feelings and empathize with her, I'm providing the support she is looking for. Whether that results in us staying together or not, that's not something I can control. I can control the effort I put into this and my attitude.

It is a difficult tasking in a time like this to work to improve oneself, especially in the area of bad habits, without getting defensive and shutting down. PMA will help.

These skills will benefit me at work, at home, and in all relationships. I stood up at training today and politely but sternly called out the group for poor performance regarding attendance. Its not optional and i made it clear. I have been remiss in the past months at leading and being a good example for my fellow service members, and today that stops too. Its all part of the overall picture.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 10:00 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
These skills will benefit me at work...
My boss was frustrated last week...thank god for validation..I almost started arguing...
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/21/19 10:07 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by LB55
I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health. Regardless of what she wants or does, I am going to get my ducks in a row and schedule the mediation and if needed set the trial date to get this over with. I discussed with my L my desires, and she is going to help me get the process moving. I don't need it to finish ASAP, but I can't sit in limbo because its driving me crazy. If I want the situation to improve, I've got to drive the bus now.
Sounds like a great plan.

Most LBH do not do things that gain them the respect they need that may re-attract their W. This will gain you respect.


You have done an amazing job at controlling your emotions and doing the right thing through out this.




Thanks R2C, I am able to control my emotions well, the thing I am not good at is letting them out when the time is appropriate. I eat them all and it makes me feel like crap. I have lots of conversations with myself in the truck where I yell at her and say the things that need to be said but don't need to be heard.

I am starting to see the disrespect in almost every communication she has with me, and while that boundary is going to result in a temporary reduction in communication, I'm hopeful that the quality of the communication will improve.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 02:27 PM
Fresh off the crazy train...

"I was looking through our wedding pictures, and you didn't look happy when you were walking with me down the aisle. This is just another sign that we weren't meant to be together."

That was one of the best days of my life. At least I know she still has the pictures.

So I'm looking for some good ways to tell her that her assumptions about things need to stop.

Example: "I know that you are angry." "I know that you hate me." "I know that your family hates me." "I know that you were never happy."

These statements are very presumptuous, but if I engage and say that's not how I feel, it gets heated quickly. I don't feel that way, and she does this in almost every communication. Some permutation of an assumption of how I feel, what I think, or why I do things.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 04:49 PM
Are these texts or in person convos?

Best is no response.

Originally Posted by LB55
"I was looking through our wedding pictures, and you didn't look happy when you were walking with me down the aisle. This is just another sign that we weren't meant to be together."
"I am much happier now"


Quote
"I know that you are angry."
"Please don't tell me how I feel. If you want to know ask. I will tell you"


Quote
"I know that you hate me."
"I am sorry you feel that way"


Quote
"I know that your family hates me."
"They are disappointment that we didn't work out"


Quote
"I know that you were never happy."
"Yup. Much happier now"
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 05:05 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Are these texts or in person convos?

Best is no response.

Originally Posted by LB55
"I was looking through our wedding pictures, and you didn't look happy when you were walking with me down the aisle. This is just another sign that we weren't meant to be together."
"I am much happier now"


Quote
"I know that you are angry."
"Please don't tell me how I feel. If you want to know ask. I will tell you"


Quote
"I know that you hate me."
"I am sorry you feel that way"


Quote
"I know that your family hates me."
"They are disappointment that we didn't work out"


Quote
"I know that you were never happy."
"Yup. Much happier now"


They are included in any conversation we have. Her preferred method is electronic, because she is more comfortable telling me things that way. During our conversation in the driveway the other night she told me that she knows I hate her, my family hates her, etc.

I don't want her to tell me how I feel, I want her to ask me how I feel. This is a key for me to know that anything has changed in our dynamic. She doesn't care how i feel right now, she knows how she thinks i feel.

As I look back on our 15 years, this has been mostly a constant. "I know there is something bothering you", "I know you are upset", "I know you are mad at me", "I know that you didn't fix my car because you don't think I'm a priority", I could go on and on.

That type of statement really puts me on the defensive, because most times its not what I think or feel. Working on my non-defensive listening skills, and I am no longer trying to justify my position or feelings when she does this, but I need to set this boundary to help me have more effective communications.
Posted By: SoTorn Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 05:34 PM
WAS are kings/queens of assumptions. They base all of their actions on assumptions. My EXWW did that throughout the entirety of our MR. Never asked how I felt. Always assumed what I was doing and how I felt.
Posted By: neffer Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 05:47 PM
Thatīs the usual path. Itīs guilt driven mindreading so as to justify WW/WAS behaviors. I did those exact things when my WWs times. Nothing original, the good all waywardness stereotypes.

These are her feelings actually so validate what needs to be validated. Then get out of it.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 07:59 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I don't want her to tell me how I feel, I want her to ask me how I feel.



You can't control other people.

Lets say you have a bad habit that you want to change. How hard is it for you to make the changes? It is going to take a lot of work and discipline. Now someone else has bad habits that you want to change. HOW HARD IS THAT GOING TO BE???


Just understand her. Listen and understand her story. It is not true. It is just her story.



If I met her out at a bar and she was talking about you, I would just listen and understand. I would enjoy her story.


W:"My husband is always angry bla bla bla"
ME:"That must be hard to deal with"
W"Bla bla bla bla bla"


She will feel better afterwards.
Posted By: SoTorn Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 08:12 PM
Originally Posted by neffer
Thatīs the usual path. Itīs guilt driven mindreading so as to justify WW/WAS behaviors. I did those exact things when my WWs times. Nothing original, the good all waywardness stereotypes.

These are her feelings actually so validate what needs to be validated. Then get out of it.



They are absolutely valid feelings. I validated my EXWW's feelings, but I wouldn't validate her assumptions. That would piss her off something fierce. That is something that I still struggle with. I am happy to validate her feelings, but she mixes in her assumptions and lies about me into her feelings. She will say "You just used me". I never did, so I am not going to agree to that. I reply with "I am sorry you feel that way". But she gets mad because she wants me to fight and argue or just say "I am sorry I used you", which isnt true at all.

The wayward mindset IMHO is a serious mental disorder. It completely rewires the WS brain.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 08:14 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
As I thought about it last night at dinner with friends, I need to get the D moving for my own sanity and health.


Often it does come to that. The only thing I would suggest is giving yourself some time to make sure you are positive it's what you want. Some LBS's decide that one day, then a few days or week later they're not sure again. So I usually suggest waiting a couple of months and if every day you still feel the same way then at the end of that time go ahead and file. I've seen it happen more than once where an LBS said they had decided they wanted a D, then told their WAS they wanted a D only to have their WAS tell them that was great because it's what they wanted too and then the LBS comes back here practically in tears because what he REALLY wanted is for her to freak out and beg him not to. So just make sure you are doing it for you and not to get a reaction out of her.

Quote
I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.


If she starts that then say "I will not be disrespected like this. If you continue this behavior then the conversation is over." THAT is setting a boundary. Simply walking away is not setting a boundary. Once the boundary is set, if she breaches it THEN walk away.

Quote
She is very scared and is putting on a front of standing up for herself and happiness. I'm simply at this point trying to establish some non-threatening and effective communication paths. If that leads to reconnecting, then great! If not, it will still be a useful thing for us to be more effective communicators.


Agreed, sounds like a good approach.

Quote
During our conversation in the driveway the other night she told me that she knows I hate her, my family hates her, etc.


Just validate- "I'm sorry we made you feel that way, that must have been very difficult."

Quote
She doesn't care how i feel right now, she knows how she thinks i feel.


But she was telling you how SHE feels, not you. She feels like you hate her. Don't disagree/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. Just validate. Now if she ASKS if you hate her, THEN you can answer her. "No I don't hate you, I can understand why you might feel that way but I don't."

Quote
As I look back on our 15 years, this has been mostly a constant. "I know there is something bothering you", "I know you are upset", "I know you are mad at me", "I know that you didn't fix my car because you don't think I'm a priority", I could go on and on.


All great validation opportunities. If you argue then it's telling her "I don't care how you feel, this is all about how I feel." If you validate then you tell her "your feelings are important to me." Do you see the distinction? Validation is a key point in DB'ing and also in life. Learn how to validate well and you will become an emotional hero to everyone around you.

Quote
That type of statement really puts me on the defensive, because most times its not what I think or feel. Working on my non-defensive listening skills, and I am no longer trying to justify my position or feelings


GOOD!
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 08:20 PM
Originally Posted by Ready2Change
Originally Posted by LB55
I don't want her to tell me how I feel, I want her to ask me how I feel.



You can't control other people.


Just understand her. Listen and understand her story. It is not true. It is just her story.



I definitely get that. I can see how that statement is controlling. I don't want to control her.

I want to modify my behavior and my approach to increase the possibility that she will make a choice to ask and actually listen to my answer and feelings. I realize I can't make her do that.

I have been listening to her story, I haven't been fighting back, and I have been acknowledging that they are her feelings. I have stated that I don't agree with her actions, but don't say that I disagree with her feelings.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by SoTorn
Originally Posted by neffer
Thatīs the usual path. Itīs guilt driven mindreading so as to justify WW/WAS behaviors. I did those exact things when my WWs times. Nothing original, the good all waywardness stereotypes.

These are her feelings actually so validate what needs to be validated. Then get out of it.



They are absolutely valid feelings. I validated my EXWW's feelings, but I wouldn't validate her assumptions. That would piss her off something fierce. That is something that I still struggle with. I am happy to validate her feelings, but she mixes in her assumptions and lies about me into her feelings. She will say "You just used me". I never did, so I am not going to agree to that. I reply with "I am sorry you feel that way". But she gets mad because she wants me to fight and argue or just say "I am sorry I used you", which isnt true at all.

The wayward mindset IMHO is a serious mental disorder. It completely rewires the WS brain.



They are totally her feelings! It took me a while to understand the difference between her feelings/perceptions and mine and how they could be different but yet correct. This is a recent revelation for me and its helped me tremendously to let go.

This is the crux of my point in the comments in the posts above:

I would validate her statement "I feel like you don't trust me". Me: "You are saying that your trust in me is eroded. I see how you could feel that way. What can we do to improve our trust in each other?"

I would not validate the statement "I know you don't trust me". Me: Says Nothing.

Problem for me right now is almost all statements are the latter vice the former. Thus our communication is very hit or miss.
Posted By: SoTorn Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 08:51 PM
Yeah, they word their statements so that if you respond you are validating their statements in their mind.

I agree with AS. You feel like D now. Give it a week and then think about it again. If you feel like that in a week. Give it another week. Then think about it again. Wash/rinse/repeat for a month. If after a month, you still feel solid on the choice to go file, then go file.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 11:08 PM
To be clear, she filed for D 5 months ago.

She wants to wait a couple of years to ensure the kids adjust and she is financially on her feet before finalizing the D.

I'm not willing to wait 2 years under her thumb legally. I want to be able to move forward, buy a house, find my rhythm, know my financial situation, and want to be able to say yes if someone comes into my life that I want to date without feeling morally wrong. Basically I want the certainty that comes with a finalized document.

If we get divorced and then reconnect, its a waste financially but its better than sitting here under her control. She wants to live her life and wants all the benefits of me except for the me part. She doesn't work, lives in a nice house overlooking the water, has 2 nice vehicles, a nice piece of property, a monthly income of nearly $8000 from rentals and support, can sleep with whomever she wants, and can basically just hang out living the good life for as long as she wants. I live in a crappy rental, parking on the street, scraping by while I pay off debt from legal fees thus far(I still owe $1500 for hers too), and she is living the good life with no real change to her situation except for me not living there anymore.

If I ask for an extra day with the kids, she says that she isn't comfortable with me seeing them more because its not safe for them to spend more time with me. Then the next email says she wants me to have more time with them and I should just ask. That I don't spend enough time with them and its detrimental to them. Rinse and repeat. CRAZY!

Yesterdays text message scolded me for not honoring her on Mothers Day with gifts. I sent her a nice text that wished her a happy mothers day with the kids. I don't feel like getting her gifts is something I should be doing to earn respect. I suspected this would happen based on her comments about getting me something for fathers day, that she was really hinting that I needed to get her something for mothers day. I spent mothers day with my mom for the first time in 12 years. It was always expected that I spend it with W and her mom.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/22/19 11:27 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander


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I would love nothing more than to slowly reconnect with WW, but she has been and continues to be very disrespectful toward me and I've simply been taking it. Working on my boundary statements the next time we talk and she starts blaming and pointing fingers. "I feel disrespected and un-heard. I am going to walk away now. We can continue this conversation later." Something to that effect.


If she starts that then say "I will not be disrespected like this. If you continue this behavior then the conversation is over." THAT is setting a boundary. Simply walking away is not setting a boundary. Once the boundary is set, if she breaches it THEN walk away.


I understand and see the difference. I am bad at boundaries, Ive let her violate every boundary ive ever had in the first 5 years of marriage.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
During our conversation in the driveway the other night she told me that she knows I hate her, my family hates her, etc.

Just validate- "I'm sorry we made you feel that way, that must have been very difficult."

She doesn't care how i feel right now, she knows how she thinks i feel.

But she was telling you how SHE feels, not you. She feels like you hate her. Don't disagree/ argue/ negotiate/ etc. Just validate. Now if she ASKS if you hate her, THEN you can answer her. "No I don't hate you, I can understand why you might feel that way but I don't."


Ok so I'm confused here. I don't see how to validate her telling me how I feel when I don't feel that way. If she said "I feel like you hate me." I can validate that because its her feelings. "I know you hate me." is not her feelings. How does she know I hate her? She can't possibly know what's in my head. The latter seems like the psychological concept of projection to me. She hates herself, but would rather have me agree because then its not her fault.

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As I look back on our 15 years, this has been mostly a constant. "I know there is something bothering you", "I know you are upset", "I know you are mad at me", "I know that you didn't fix my car because you don't think I'm a priority", I could go on and on.

All great validation opportunities. If you argue then it's telling her "I don't care how you feel, this is all about how I feel." If you validate then you tell her "your feelings are important to me." Do you see the distinction? Validation is a key point in DB'ing and also in life. Learn how to validate well and you will become an emotional hero to everyone around you.



So I know not to argue with her, but I am still confused on the validation of feelings vice her statements that don't reflect how I actually feel, or what I was thinking, or why I did something. How does she "know" how I feel without asking me?

"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?

Maybe I am over thinking this right now.
Posted By: unchien Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 12:10 AM
Originally Posted by LB55
"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?

Maybe I am over thinking this right now.

Yeah this one is tough but remember: Validate the feeling, not her reason for the feeling. You arenít agreeing that you intentionally avoided fixing her car. You are empathizing with her feeling.
Posted By: SoTorn Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 12:38 AM
Thats just an "I am sorry you feel that way" response. Or, if youre not sorry, which you shouldnt be because you didn't do anything to be sorry about "Its unfortunate that you feel that way "
Posted By: Yail Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 01:18 AM
LB55
Originally Posted by unchien
Originally Posted by LB55
"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?

Maybe I am over thinking this right now.

Yeah this one is tough but remember: Validate the feeling, not her reason for the feeling. You arenít agreeing that you intentionally avoided fixing her car. You are empathizing with her feeling.


Yes, this is the distinction I think you're looking for. So it is "That must have been scary driving the vehicle with the broken throttle" or "I see how having a vehicle with a broken throttle would be a very scary experience. I agree, that is not a vehicle anyone should be driving until it is properly fixed".
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 03:44 PM
Thanks all, I will work at differentiating between how she feels and how it comes across. It is difficult to see the feeling when being accused of horrendous things. I will work on it.

I took last night off from any communication with her, even though I have a large text message that she wrote to me that says she never liked camping, fishing, or any of the other things we used to do together. That she needs someone who can value her more than I will ever be able to and that we have no options but this path. I disagree that we have no other options, and I'm doing what I can to increase my value as a man and that will help me with whomever I wind up with going forward. Her or someone else.

I can say that my interpersonal relationships with others are improving based on me practicing better communication, non-defensive listening, and validation skills. Men and women both. I am trying to pay more attention to how others validate my statements as well, and to ask myself if I am seeking validation or just telling how I feel/what I want. I can see that I've sought validation from others, especially my W in the past, and that really just led to a validation competition. I did X! Yeah well I did X, Y, and Z! Yeah well I did those and 1, 2, 3! That type of one-upsmanship scenario just never works out well. I didn't see it as that then, but can see how it drives people away and doesn't validate anyone's feelings. People just want to be heard.

One of her former friends told me that was why they weren't friends anymore; my W always had to have the last word and always had to have a bigger and better sob story about why her life was more difficult than someone else. A complete lack of validation of their feelings. In this scenario we both thought the other people were the problem, I can see now that is untrue. I thought it was awfully strange that when I deployed all of her neighborhood friends just stopped hanging out and inviting her over. She was very hurt and felt abandoned. I can see how it happened now looking back. She told me she was going to be very mad if I returned and they started wanting to hang out again. I recall wondering why she would be mad because people wanted to spend time with me.
Posted By: unchien Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 04:07 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I have a large text message that she wrote to me that says she never liked camping, fishing, or any of the other things we used to do together. That she needs someone who can value her more than I will ever be able to and that we have no options but this path. I disagree that we have no other options, and I'm doing what I can to increase my value as a man and that will help me with whomever I wind up with going forward. Her or someone else.

Oof... that text almost sounds like one to just let lie....but as I'm trying to work on validation myself, let me give it a crack.

First of all, ignore "we have no options but this path." She's begging for a response here, ignore it. She is not expressing a feeling, so you don't need to validate. She is expressing an opinion, and hoping you take the bait and defend.

LB: "Gee that sounds awful to feel so bored for so long. It must be difficult to have your needs go unsatisfied."

I'm sure one of the vets here can craft something better.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by unchien
[quote=LB55]I have a large text message that she wrote to me that says she never liked camping, fishing, or any of the other things we used to do together. That she needs someone who can value her more than I will ever be able to and that we have no options but this path. I disagree that we have no other options, and I'm doing what I can to increase my value as a man and that will help me with whomever I wind up with going forward. Her or someone else.

Oof... that text almost sounds like one to just let lie....but as I'm trying to work on validation myself, let me give it a crack.


Yes I could choose to let it lie. My goals right now are to open lines of communication with her and start to restore some trust between us. I believe that not replying will not help me meet either of those goals.

I may choose to reply selectively, not addressing the things that are untrue, but I will validate her feelings without agreeing or admitting to her accusations.

Good for you to practice validation! We can all use to work on it, Lord knows its a contributor to why we are all here.

I was thinking something along the lines of "It must have been terrible to not feel like you could tell me the truth for all these years. I can see we like different activities. What are some activities would you choose to do?"
Posted By: SoTorn Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 04:55 PM
I honestly wouldnt even reply to that. Its not a direct question or of anything important. She is literally just putting you down and rewriting history. Just like when my EXWW tells me that I ised her and our entire MR was sh*t.

Not even worth the effort to respond to something so blatantly hurtful and untrue.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/23/19 05:31 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
I'm not willing to wait 2 years under her thumb legally. I want to be able to move forward, buy a house, find my rhythm, know my financial situation, and want to be able to say yes if someone comes into my life that I want to date without feeling morally wrong. Basically I want the certainty that comes with a finalized document.


And that is a 100% valid reason to pursue D. I found myself in that place 5 +/- years ago and I was the one that pushed the D through.

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Yesterdays text message scolded me for not honoring her on Mothers Day with gifts. I sent her a nice text that wished her a happy mothers day with the kids. I don't feel like getting her gifts is something I should be doing to earn respect.


You are correct, and if she doesn't like it then just remind her she fired you as H.

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Ok so I'm confused here. I don't see how to validate her telling me how I feel when I don't feel that way. If she said "I feel like you hate me." I can validate that because its her feelings. "I know you hate me." is not her feelings. How does she know I hate her? She can't possibly know what's in my head. The latter seems like the psychological concept of projection to me. She hates herself, but would rather have me agree because then its not her fault.


I get what you are saying, technically "I know you hate me" is expressing mind-reading rather than feelings. But keep in mind you are dealing with someone that is highly emotionally charged right now. So here are two scenarios:

Non-validating:

I know you hate me.
No, I don't hate you.
Yes you do, I can tell.
No I don't, why do you think that.
I can tell you hate me.
Etc. etc. etc. ARGUMENT!

OR... validating:

I know you hate me.
You think I hate you, that sounds very frustrating, I'm sorry that our situation makes you feel that way.
Oh. Well maybe "hate" is a strong word.

The whole idea of validation is to diffuse the situation before it escalates. You're not AGREEING with what she is saying, but more importantly, you are not DISAGREEING.

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So I know not to argue with her, but I am still confused on the validation of feelings vice her statements that don't reflect how I actually feel, or what I was thinking, or why I did something. How does she "know" how I feel without asking me?


Obviously she doesn't. But even though she may not be saying the exact work "feel" or "feelings", that is still what she is expressing. Grammatically yes, "I know you hate me" and "I feel like you hate me" have different meanings. But in WAS-land they mean the exact same thing.

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"You intentionally didn't fix the throttle on my car because you wanted me to die in a wreck and collect the insurance money for yourself." I just straight up disagree with that, I can't see how she would think that, and I certainly never had premeditated collecting insurance money. This is an actual thing I was accused of by her. If I validate her statement, then she says "I can't believe you intentionally did that to someone you loved!" Does she see validation as agreement with her statement?


Like unchien said, you're not agreeing with her, just acknowledging her feelings are real. If you validate properly, you're not accepting blame for anything. Yail's response is perfect:

"I see how having a vehicle with a broken throttle would be a very scary experience. I agree, that is not a vehicle anyone should be driving until it is properly fixed".

You are not accepting blame, or really even acknowledging the blame she injected into the convo. But you are acknowledging her feelings, and agreeing with her FEELINGS, not with the BLAME.

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I took last night off from any communication with her, even though I have a large text message that she wrote to me that says she never liked camping, fishing, or any of the other things we used to do together. That she needs someone who can value her more than I will ever be able to and that we have no options but this path. I disagree that we have no other options, and I'm doing what I can to increase my value as a man and that will help me with whomever I wind up with going forward. Her or someone else.


Keep in mind you are no longer her H. You don't have to validate EVERYTHING. You don't even have to reply to everything, and in fact, shouldn't. I agree with the others that the best response to this is no response. Now if she said it to you face-to-face you're kind of forced into some kind of response, so a validating response would be something like "I can understand why you would feel that way." Just short and to the point. No arguing, no objecting, no agreeing or disagreeing.

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I can say that my interpersonal relationships with others are improving based on me practicing better communication, non-defensive listening, and validation skills. Men and women both. I am trying to pay more attention to how others validate my statements as well, and to ask myself if I am seeking validation or just telling how I feel/what I want. I can see that I've sought validation from others, especially my W in the past, and that really just led to a validation competition. I did X! Yeah well I did X, Y, and Z! Yeah well I did those and 1, 2, 3! That type of one-upsmanship scenario just never works out well. I didn't see it as that then, but can see how it drives people away and doesn't validate anyone's feelings. People just want to be heard.


Exactly right, very good insight!

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One of her former friends told me that was why they weren't friends anymore; my W always had to have the last word and always had to have a bigger and better sob story about why her life was more difficult than someone else.


People like her are hard to be around for sure. Validation with her types are purely a one-way road. You validate and validate and get nothing in return. It's good validation practice though, LOL! My girlfriend is not THAT bad, but has a similar princess mentality. Sometimes I get tired of validating her all the time and just pull back and give myself a break.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/24/19 03:02 PM
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People like her are hard to be around for sure. Validation with her types are purely a one-way road. You validate and validate and get nothing in return. It's good validation practice though, LOL! My girlfriend is not THAT bad, but has a similar princess mentality. Sometimes I get tired of validating her all the time and just pull back and give myself a break.


Truer words have rarely been spoken. I need a break from validating. I will get it this weekend with the kids and my family.

She is just looking for a fight. She cornered my at little league last night to discuss repairs to the rental home. She hadn't mentioned repairs at all, so its not a matter of me avoiding the topic. I merely said that she should send me the receipts so I can view them. Somehow that devolved into her dictating what will happen and how much I owe, so I said that I don't feel like im being heard, we can continue this conversation at a later time and walked away.

She then sent me an apology and a proposal for paying for the repairs via text. I again asked for a receipt for the corrective maintenance. "What do you mean creative maintenance? You are attacking me again and I won't stand for it. What makes you think a 50/50 split of assets is going to happen? I won't consider anything until you send me in writing why you think this is appropriate."

I didn't mention anywhere a split of assets, this is about fixing the water heater and a few other things in a home in a different state. She read creative maintenance and assumed that I was belittling the maintenance that needed doing as unnecessary I think. I went back and read my message just so make sure I didn't get autocorrected or something, definitely says corrective maintenance.

If one goes looking for a fight, one will find said fight everytime.

Im not replying to her demands. Is this a let it go scenario, or a boundary setting one? 'I feel disrespected and unheard. If this tone continues, I will not continue this conversation.'
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/24/19 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by LB55
Somehow that devolved into her dictating what will happen and how much I owe, so I said that I don't feel like im being heard, we can continue this conversation at a later time and walked away.


Perfect!

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I again asked for a receipt for the corrective maintenance. "What do you mean creative maintenance? You are attacking me again and I won't stand for it. What makes you think a 50/50 split of assets is going to happen? I won't consider anything until you send me in writing why you think this is appropriate."


Did you point out to her that it said "corrective" and not "creative"? I agree it was a huge overreaction, but it sounds like she just misread it.

Did you not say earlier that she gets 100% of the proceeds from the rental properties? I'm curious why she thinks you are obligated to pay part of the maintenance on them if she reaps all of the profits? That doesn't make sense.

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Im not replying to her demands. Is this a let it go scenario, or a boundary setting one? 'I feel disrespected and unheard. If this tone continues, I will not continue this conversation.'


Yes I think it's both actually. Send a boundary response exactly like you described, then if she keeps sending rants then ignore them and don't reply.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/24/19 03:50 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander

I again asked for a receipt for the corrective maintenance. "What do you mean creative maintenance? You are attacking me again and I won't stand for it. What makes you think a 50/50 split of assets is going to happen? I won't consider anything until you send me in writing why you think this is appropriate."

Did you point out to her that it said "corrective" and not "creative"? I agree it was a huge overreaction, but it sounds like she just misread it.


I did not. I agree she mis-read it. However this happens quite often when she is agitated. She only hears and reads what she wants to, and doesn't actually get the information. One of her big gripes with me is that I correct her when she twists things around and puts words in my mouth. She will figure it out on her own that she is over-reacting.

When she goes looking for a fight, she will poke me like this until I lash out. I understand that I can't do that, it was never appropriate, and its not happening anymore. She isn't getting the expected response, so she is poking me harder.

I also noticed last night in our verbal conversation that she is emulating me with validation...except she doesn't know how to actually validate...
H: "I understand how you could feel that way. It must be tough dealing with all of the home repairs."
W: "I understand how you could feel that way. But you are wrong. Here is why I am right. Just accept it and this will be easier for both of us."

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Did you not say earlier that she gets 100% of the proceeds from the rental properties? I'm curious why she thinks you are obligated to pay part of the maintenance on them if she reaps all of the profits? That doesn't make sense.


Yep she does. She pays for regular upkeep and so forth. Pressure washing, etc...I did agree in the temp orders that if any major repairs came up we would split the repair costs. It benefits us both in the end to keep the property up to par and rented. My problem isn't splitting the costs, its that she doesn't want to show me the data, instead demanding dollar amounts be paid while she keeps track of everything in a tracker that only she has access to.

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Im not replying to her demands. Is this a let it go scenario, or a boundary setting one? 'I feel disrespected and unheard. If this tone continues, I will not continue this conversation.'

Yes I think it's both actually. Send a boundary response exactly like you described, then if she keeps sending rants then ignore them and don't reply.


Ok that makes sense. Thanks AS.
Posted By: LB55 Re: Settling In (LB55 Thread 3) - 05/25/19 09:58 PM
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