Two weeks ago my husband (together 10, married 4) walked out on me and our children (11, 6 & 3). We had a petty row and he suddenly announced he was leaving. I was angry, I told him to go, he cried lots but still left.
A bit of back story- 18 months ago he told me that he did not love me anymore, we worked through that and he later said that he did love me, he just didn’t love me at the times I was horrible to him.
I admit, nothing much changed, I have been incredibly moody and snappy with him, I have failed to listen to him when he tried to tell me how that makes him feel. I don’t know why I was like that, I guess a vicious cycle of me feeling unloved and like he doesn’t care, so I become frustrated and snap constantly- like really bite his head off. He says that I have worn him down, that him leaving is a culmination of the last couple of years and that he does not love me anymore.
I made the usual mistakes and begged, pleaded and cried to try and get him to come back, all this did is pressure him more and make him feel suffocated.
I’ve stopped that now. I did send him an email last night, not the usual begging or declaring my love, but I calmly wrote out that I am sorry for my behaviour over the last couple of weeks and I realise that that is how I have been behaving for the last couple of years in our marriage- putting my feelings ahead of his and that wasn’t acceptable. I did not mention anything about getting back together, basically I did the opposite of what I have been doing for the last couple of weeks.
He replied, reiterating that it wasn’t a sudden decision (feels like it as last month we were making future plans!) and that he does not regret his decision but he is sorry for how I must be feeling.
I have started to implement the 180, and the book arrived yesterday so I have started to read that too. It is so difficult as he now lives back with his parents 3 hours away, I will see him every week or so when he picks up the children.
He also said he wants to chat about things on Wednesday in person... I don’t want to, as he is going to say things that I don’t want to hear. I’m not sure what to do about that.
Thanks in advance for any help!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi. Sorry you're going through this rough time, but things will get better, I promise.
I have been worn down over the years by my father, and I brought that horrible mentality to my marriage. Every relationship is different in how they handle something like this. Do what you can to get these behaviors changed. I doubt that in your normal state of mind you think this is a good way to treat people.
It's ok to have emotions, but remember that people feel it when we treat them poorly, regardless of how we intended to treat them. You, like me, have to find a better way to get those negative feelings out and process them.
He also said he wants to chat about things on Wednesday in person... I don’t want to, as he is going to say things that I don’t want to hear. I’m not sure what to do about that.
I would read the thread Cadet posted labeled "validation" and learn a couple phrases, learn how to validate and what that means. Don't go to this meeting to convince him to change his mind, but rather just to listen. Maybe make plans for something after so you aren't stuck there forever. I'm assuming you're going to go?
Thank you.
He is picking up the children and helping me move some furniture for me to decorate while they are with him- so I do have to see him. I guess I am just scared that he is going to mention divorce and talk about future arrangements with the children etc.
I don’t want to try and make him to come back, I’ve realised that I can’t do that and I have to wait until he chooses to want to come back (hopefully) but I am just so unsure how to be with him, he is (was) my best friend as well as husband, I feel that if I go cold totally, it will not be right for our situation, maybe I am wrong and that is the way to go? We have chatted by text about little things today, nothing important and nothing about us but I don’t know if that is the right thing? Surely communication that is pleasant and forthcoming from him should be reciprocated? I feel that my main goals at the moment with interaction should be:
Be kind
Be patient
Avoid relationship talk
Don’t be lured into fights/reacting
Communicate calmly and reasonably if I have a problem- and compromise
Does this sound ok? He says he doesn’t love me but I do believe there is some love there, but he can’t see/feel it at the moment as he is so angry with me for making him leave.
Can I ask why you think you have to "go cold"?
Read the detachment thread. Loving detachment is not being "cold".
I would read the thread Cadet posted labeled "validation" and learn a couple phrases, learn how to validate and what that means. Don't go to this meeting to convince him to change his mind, but rather just to listen. Maybe make plans for something after so you aren't stuck there forever. I'm assuming you're going to go?
I echo this. Also, learn the phrase, "This is a lot to deal with and I need some time to process everything that has happened." Do not feel pressured to make decisions. Do that in your own time.
Steve,
I think she is saying "going cold" is not right for her situation.
Monkey, going cold is the opposite of going hot. The best thing you can do is try be calm and almost, ALMOST, indifferent. We call that being "detached". You'll learn more about it as time goes. Just try to be calm and think logically, pay attention to your emotions.
If he is initiating little chats it's probably fine to engage a bit, but usually the LBS (left behind spouse) needs to not start small talk b/c the WAS (walk away spouse) will see it as pursuit and it will just push the WAS further away.
Does this sound ok? He says he doesn’t love me but I do believe there is some love there, but he can’t see/feel it at the moment as he is so angry with me for making him leave.
He probably does still have feelings for you, but yes, anger can sure get in the way of love. Don't try to convince him he loves you and that he's just angry, just accept his present feelings as they are IMO.
I echo what everyone else has said Monkey. I wish I had REALLY followed their advice right from the beginning but I just had too difficult a time managing my own feelings in his presence. Be prepared to hear the worst. He means what he says to you so don’t dismiss it and DO NOT try to talk him out of it. Just listen and validate. Also... do NOT try to physically touch him, hug him or kiss him. This was a mistake I made in the very beginning when my H was waffling and I thought he was coming back. It backfired. It only reminded him that he wasn’t feeling that way towards me and further pushed him away. So prepare yourself. Have some phrases you can used memorized. Try not to get emotional. That will just make him feel guilty and not want to be around you. Be happy but not too happy. If you can adopt the mindset that you are being visited by a neighbour you are reasonably fond of... you are polite, congenial, interested but not overly. This is going to feel strange and counterintuitive but have faith that it is the right thing to do and the only chance you have of saving your marriage and saving yourself. Your situation sounds very savable but you need to give him time and space and work on yourself. Don’t tell him you are doing this...show him by your actions. He has to remember the reasons he fell in love with you in the first place but he won’t do that if you make him feel uncomfortable and guilt-ridden for leaving. You can do this!!! (((HUGS)))
I thought I had replied but my post hasn’t appeared...
Thank you for the advice.
Steve- by cold I meant I don’t think that’s a good idea, I have since read the detachment thread and that makes a lot of sense.
I am not sure how I should react or what I should say tomorrow. I feel he is just going to repeat the things he has said- that he doesn’t love me and doesn’t regret his decision. He keeps repeating that he feels it’s best for our children... this annoys the heck out of me! I find it so hard to remain calm.. he has left for himself, not for the sake of our children! I can’t lie and agree with him on that, but I don’t want to cause even more hatred towards me by questioning that.
Today I had a job offer... the job of a lifetime actually. I am in the U.K. and the job is in Canada. I would not hesitate to turn it down if we were together, but now? Well part of me thinks what is the point in staying here when I have very few friends if any, no family other than my children. The thought of leaving and giving up on him kills me inside though...
I thought I had replied but my post hasn’t appeared...
You have three posts and they are all here.
There are none in moderation.
You have three posts and they are all here.
There are none in moderation.
Thank you. I must have not pressed ‘post’ !
So he came to collect the children this morning. He repeated what he has said before- that he does not want to try again because he feels it is too big a risk that things will go back to the way they were before. He says I am right that he has put barriers up to stop himself getting hurt. I think I did a good job of validating his feelings.
He is bringing the children back Saturday evening and staying to look after them as I have plans on Sunday. He’s refused to stay in the spare room and has booked himself a hotel locally. I don’t understand his reluctance to stay in the same house... maybe there is an OW and she is not happy if he stays... so frustrating.
Everyone puts up barriers to protect themselves, don't you think? We talk about them all the time here, and there's a link in Cadet's post called boundaries. Check it out when you get a second.
He says I am right that he has put barriers up to stop himself getting hurt.
I'm curious if he just said this out of the blue, or what you may have said to prompt this.
I think you may be trying hard to get him to "see the light" whether it's bringing down his walls or to even stay the night. This type of pursuit almost always work against you. I really think you should read the "Pursuit and Distance" link. Maybe someone will post the picnic analogy too. The point is this: if he has walls up, the walls exist for a reason. They go up slowly and they serve a purpose. Quit trying to break the walls down, that's scary for the person inside. Instead, make an attraction that might bring him out.
He may be thinking that the offer to stay in the house is so that you can try to talk to him to get him see sense. In his head it is over and he doesn't want to give you mixed messages. Perhaps that's a decent thing for him to do.
I offered to do the same 6 months ago - move back in so that we could get the house ready for sale. Now I realise that I thought that if i had him here in the house 'I could work on him'
If you feel frustrated is it because you feel you are missing an opportunity to persuade him he's wrong?
See it as a blessing. Him staying n the house could easily turn into a step backwards from detachment. We only want to move forward.
Thank you. I did say to him last week that it felt like he had put these barriers up the moment he walked out of the door- hence him saying he agreed with me today.
I guess I’m frustrated with not knowing the full truth- or that is what it feels like. If there is an OW, well that changes everything for me.
I phoned him yesterday to speak to the children before they went to bed. I was conscious not to talk much to H, but after I had spoken to the children he tried to engage me in conversation, asked what I was up to, so I told him I had arranged to meet a friend for a few drinks, he sounded surprised (I have not been out without him in literally years) and the conversation ended.
Half an hour later I start getting text messages, trying to goad me into an argument. I must admit it did work but I quickly realised and stepped back, said that we can talk about things amicably another time. He then asks what time I’m going, where I’m going, apologises for ruining my night. I just responded briefly and told him he hadn’t ruined my night at all.
Later on in the evening he messaged again to ask how I am getting home, if I have a taxi booked etc. I was a little tipsy at this stage and just replied ‘taxi, It’s not your job to worry about me any more’ he responded saying that I’m still the mother of his children etc, then messaged again a while later asking me to let him know when I’m home safe. I didn’t respond and I didn’t let him know I’m home safe, I put my phone away for fear of sending something I shouldn’t...
Hi M,
Just checking in to tell you, that I am rooting for you, whatever the outcome will be in the end.
Trust nothing he says, but only his actions. Embed this into your mind, make it a strategy to live by, and you will be so much better off. You will not have to spend countless hours mind-reading and trying to figure out the who's the what's and the why's.
So I think its a good thing, that you call and talk to your kids if that works for them and makes them happy, and if it does not intrude on any new patterns that he might have begun forming in his new alone life with the kids, because as hard as it is, it is his time with the kids
- this goes both ways, and you and he must accept this new way of life that is now starting to form for you.
You shocked him good with the going out part, and that is wonderful. However, you are engaging in way too much conversation. Be mysterious. You could have ended the convo after the information about you going out. There is no need to entertain any of the following messages he sent you - ignore unless its something regarding your kids that needs your immediate attention..
Stay strong, do you, and know, that the first steps are the hardest, then you learn to navigate, and make use of the great advice you will find here, and in time, you will be running towards a brighter future, with or without your ww.
/hurt
Thank you hurt.
I think that’s part of the problem- that I was trying to figure out why he was so interested in what I was doing, how I was getting home etc, I need to stop that and detach more... easier said than done!
He has been phoning to speak to the kids while they have been with me, as the children are young they want to speak to him as they miss him. Now he has them for a few days, I am not used to being away from them so did message first to ask if I could phone first. Hopefully this will get easier.
He is due back tomorrow evening, then is staying locally so that he can look after them on Sunday as I have plans. Dreading seeing him now to be honest
He keeps messaging today too. Firstly asking if I am alive, then asking how I feel, reiterating he was concerned because I didn’t let him know that I got home safely. Now he’s sending pictures of the kids on a day out they have had...don’t get me wrong I love to see the children having fun but does he really have to send them now?
I kept my answers short and polite, nothing more. I feel if I had ignored him it would have irritated him and I don’t want to give him another excuse to get mad at me.
Even a week ago I would be enjoying him contacting me, now I think I just want him to leave me alone. Every part of me wants to tell him that he walked away from us, so he has no say in what I do or when, but I know I can’t.
Posting here definitely helps to vent.
Monkey, so what if you irritate him? I don't get that. "What he is doing is irritating me....but I don't want to irritate him." And while not WANTING to irritate is commendable, not doing what YOU need to do for you is not appropriate, even IF it irritates him.
The rule you should learn and live by is this:
When he texts you, respond ONLY to direct questions. Informational texts do not get a response, NOT EVEN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. When he asks a direct question, you answer BUT only in your own time. Doesn't have to be immediately. And then it should be done in the fewest words necessary. Yes or no questions get a yes or no answer.
This is not for him, it is for YOUR sanity and peace of mind. You need to start treating him like an acquaintance. Like you would the clerk at the store. You'd listen. Answer questions, but you wouldn't be emotionally invested in the discussion. That is where you need to get with him. Otherwise he will manipulate, control you and keep you on a leash. And that is not healthy for you.
He is spinning a bit, he is definitely worried about what you're up to. Keep doing your thing.
Monkey, so what if you irritate him? I don't get that. "What he is doing is irritating me....but I don't want to irritate him." And while not WANTING to irritate is commendable, not doing what YOU need to do for you is not appropriate, even IF it irritates him.
The rule you should learn and live by is this:
When he texts you, respond ONLY to direct questions. Informational texts do not get a response, NOT EVEN AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT. When he asks a direct question, you answer BUT only in your own time. Doesn't have to be immediately. And then it should be done in the fewest words necessary. Yes or no questions get a yes or no answer.
This is not for him, it is for YOUR sanity and peace of mind. You need to start treating him like an acquaintance. Like you would the clerk at the store. You'd listen. Answer questions, but you wouldn't be emotionally invested in the discussion. That is where you need to get with him. Otherwise he will manipulate, control you and keep you on a leash. And that is not healthy for you.
Thanks Steve, I guess I don’t want to irritate him because I am the reason he left. He has repeatedly told me what a bad wife I was and I can’t help but want to put that right. In his eyes it is 100% my fault, and I guess I want him to like me, to see the good parts of me. I realise that is not healthy, I change between wanting to put things right to thinking of all the times HE let me down, all the times I felt unloved and I cared for etc.
Anyway, he’s still messaging now, I’m not going to reply as he’s not asking anything, just telling me about his day etc.
I guess I don’t want to irritate the WAS because the LBS is the reason they left. The WAS has repeatedly told the LBS what a bad spouse they were and the LBS can’t help but want to put that right. In the WAS' eyes it is 100% the fault of the LBS, and the LBS wants the WAS to like then, to see the good parts of them.
I took part of your first paragraph and generalized it. Why? Because the WAS will ALWAYS rewrite history, put all the blame on the LBS and speak in absolutes. "I was NEVER happy. I TRIED to fix things the entire time we were married. You are irredeemably, completely awful, terrible and have nothing good to offer." Those are typical statements by WASs. Why? Because they are trying to justify their actions be blaming, 100%, the WAS.
Monkey, we've all been there. We've been through it, and we've come out the other side. Some of us saved our marriages, some of us did not. But if you listen to us the sun will shine again in your life, no matter what.
I guess I don’t want to irritate the WAS because the LBS is the reason they left. The WAS has repeatedly told the LBS what a bad spouse they were and the LBS can’t help but want to put that right. In the WAS' eyes it is 100% the fault of the LBS, and the LBS wants the WAS to like then, to see the good parts of them.
I took part of your first paragraph and generalized it. Why? Because the WAS will ALWAYS rewrite history, put all the blame on the LBS and speak in absolutes. "I was NEVER happy. I TRIED to fix things the entire time we were married. You are irredeemably, completely awful, terrible and have nothing good to offer." Those are typical statements by WASs. Why? Because they are trying to justify their actions be blaming, 100%, the WAS.
Monkey, we've all been there. We've been through it, and we've come out the other side. Some of us saved our marriages, some of us did not. But if you listen to us the sun will shine again in your life, no matter what.
Thank you again Steve. That does make sense, I guess I need to try harder. I am listening and trying to follow as much advice as possible.
He dropped off the children this evening, asked if he could stay to put them to bed, I agreed since they were on a huge sugar rush!
He asked how my night out was, I just replied with ‘good thanks’ and left it at that. He made a few more comments like he wanted more information but I did not respond.
He put the kids to bed and left to go to the hotel straight afterwards.
Why do I feel so **** after I see him? Each time he leaves it is like being rejected all over again. I held it together until he left, but now I feel so down. Why am I so awful? Feeling pretty sad right now.
Hi Monkey, I found your thread.
I can really empathise with what you're saying about the kid drop offs. It's like that for me too. Sometimes he is very chatty and wanting to share about what he's been up to, and I listen and validate and he goes away having got what he wanted (a dose of wife-sympathy) and I'm left behind hurt and upset because he's not asked me one question about how I am doing or how I am feeling.
Other times, he does ask me how I am, and I make the mistake of saying 'I'm sad and tired and worried about the future and the children' and the truth gets him mad, so he makes an excuse and leaves and I feel rejected. Or I say 'I'm fine. Had a great day,' and he's irritated I am not more forthcoming and then he leaves and I end up feeling upset and rejected. Or I make a big show of talking about how happy I am, and he seems annoyed at that too, and then I end up feeling dishonest and manipulative and lonely and like I am all the terrible things he thinks I am, and rejected.
I guess I am saying that whatever I try, I still feel sad and rejected, so I generally feel better when I just totally limit my contact with him and let him have his own feelings and reactions elsewhere where I can't witness or be troubled by them. I try to take care of my own fear for the future. I haven't been doing brilliantly at this - as you can see from my thread - so I am not offering suggestions from an expert, just a load of empathy.
Thanks Alison, you have pretty much summed up how I am feeling.
Sunday was not as bad as I thought it would be. He looked after the children while I went out for the day taking part in my regular hobby. It was really good as I got to catch up with a close friend and it was nice to vent a little (lot!) about the situation.
I have been detaching myself, and this is drawing him in in a way I think. Bearing in mind he is living 200 miles away with his parents, I think he is possibly starting to see that I was not only his wife but his best friend- we talked about everything (other than our R- clearly!) and I think that now the novelty is wearing off of being child free and living with his parents, he is starting to miss a little of what we had... maybe.
He is messaging, telling me about his day, asking totally pointless questions about the children and making chit chat, basically any reason he can to make contact.
I am cautious of not detaching to far, I am being polite but not responding unless he asks a specific question. This is not as difficult as it was even just a week ago.
Hi Monkey
that sounds positive. And it is good that you're still doing things for yourself. I've been working on that too and it makes a difference.
Today I am just furious (see my thread). It helps me detach in the short term - I'm not going to chase him when today, when I think about how I've allowed myself to be treated, I feel angry and disgusted. But I know feelings change so I am just keeping on.
Will you be seeing him again this weekend. Do you still have a lot of contact over text?
Hi Monkey
that sounds positive. And it is good that you're still doing things for yourself. I've been working on that too and it makes a difference.
Today I am just furious (see my thread). It helps me detach in the short term - I'm not going to chase him when today, when I think about how I've allowed myself to be treated, I feel angry and disgusted. But I know feelings change so I am just keeping on.
Will you be seeing him again this weekend. Do you still have a lot of contact over text?
Thanks Alison. He is not coming until Wednesday, he is staying in the house while I am away. We have to both stay in the house on Wednesday night as I leave very early on Thursday morning. Texting has tailed off, my short answers and lack of conversation means he has realised I don’t want to chit chat. I spoke to him on the phone briefly yesterday, he tried telling me what he had been up to but I just gave the phone to the children.
Today is a bad day, I’m not sure why. I haven’t cried in a while but this morning when I woke up, I did. I feel very vulnerable. I’m not sure why today, posting here as the other option is to message him and I don’t want to do that.
Just letting you know I've read your post.
I had a bad night last night. I've had a better week than I have in a while, and am on top of the house, kids, homework, work, all that stuff. But I just felt so wrung out and exhausted last night. I let the kids sit and watch the telly and I sat upstairs and cried. Not the best parenting of my life, but I am doing my best and sometimes it isn't possible to carry on as normal.
Do you have other friends in real life that you are talking to? I have one or two - but I tend to be selective because I don't want people feeling sorry for me at work, and I don't want to turn everyone against him by venting my anger at them and making him out to be the bad guy because I don't think that will make it any easier to either reconcile or find a way to coparent amicably and warmly. It is hard feeling isolated though.
Hope you have a better day today.
Just letting you know I've read your post.
I had a bad night last night. I've had a better week than I have in a while, and am on top of the house, kids, homework, work, all that stuff. But I just felt so wrung out and exhausted last night. I let the kids sit and watch the telly and I sat upstairs and cried. Not the best parenting of my life, but I am doing my best and sometimes it isn't possible to carry on as normal.
Do you have other friends in real life that you are talking to? I have one or two - but I tend to be selective because I don't want people feeling sorry for me at work, and I don't want to turn everyone against him by venting my anger at them and making him out to be the bad guy because I don't think that will make it any easier to either reconcile or find a way to coparent amicably and warmly. It is hard feeling isolated though.
Hope you have a better day today.
It is so difficult to parent well and deal with our emotions at the same times isn’t it? It does annoy me somewhat that they can just walk away, they get to deal with how they are feeling by themselves, but we are expected to run the home, raise the children and deal with our emotions too.
I have told a couple of friends, I am being careful not to ‘go on’ to them about it. I don’t have any friends close by really, we moved 200 miles from family and friends a couple of years ago- that’s another thing that annoys me, he has just disappeared off back to his old life and left us all 200 miles away with no support network or friends of any kind close by.
It really is. I guess we have no choice. I feel resentful sometimes that I am doing the lion's share of the parenting while he's locking himself away on his own to concentrate on his work, but actually, I would rather have the chance to deepen and improve my closeness with my children and support them. And he is seeing the youngest regularly, picking up from school very reliably, bought some new school uniform for her, etc etc, so I can't fault him on that. I do understand why he's wary about contact with the eldest (and to be honest, the feeling is pretty mutual) so while it isn't what I want, I do think it's the best of a bad job right now.
What are your 180s? I am asking because over the weekend I plan to get specific and make a list of my own and as our situations sound reasonably similar I am wondering if yours might inspire me on some of mine, and vice versa.
So... 4 days no contact. I feel like a new person. I have only had fleeting thoughts about him, when I do think of him I feel indifferent. I have reinitiated contact with friends I had lost touch with, I am going away for 4 days on Thursday and have plans to meet friends and basically GAL. I have not missed him at all, in fact, if he suddenly announced that he wanted to come back I am not sure I would want him to.
I let him blame me, I took all of the blame and I beat myself up about it for weeks but you know what? He was a pretty shitty husband. He never showed me love or affection, never supported me or showed compassion. I know of course that I am equally to blame, but at least I have acknowledged my issues and I’m working on being a better person, he doesn’t acknowledge he played any part in it.
I’ll be seeing him tomorrow as he’s coming to look after the children, hopefully this doesn’t push me back a step.
That's good news Monkey. I've had days like that too - but in my experience is passes and I cycle through anger and yearning and self blame and longing and grief again - backwards and forwards - though the cycles are getting shorter and I am able to comfort myself during them more easily.
I would suggest you minimise contact with him when he comes tomorrow. Be cordial but remote, give yourself something else to do, and plan some massive self care afterwards in case it brings up sad or angry feelings for you.
Thanks Alison.
It’s been 11 days since my last post, my time away was great, I continued to feel good, met with friends and enjoyed some Male attention I got (did not act upon it but it was a nice feeling- to be wanted I guess). When I returned, husband was very off with me in the 30 minutes between me returning and him leaving but I let it sweep over me, I did not react at all.
We have had very limited contact, only essential messages regarding the children. I don’t know what caused it but I had a relapse last night, a few tears but I pulled myself together again. Then today he phoned to speak to one of the children as they are unwell, he started to talk to me and was really nice, asking how I was and telling me about things going on with him. It was like speaking to the husband I married, not the one he had become. I probably shouldn’t have engaged with him so much, I did mostly listen and told him very little about myself but I am now back to feeling this huge gaping hole that he has left in our lives.
Another update (I find it useful writing things down here and looking back)
He was phoning and messaging a lot last week, being very nice. He came to see the children last weekend and slept in the spare room- I went out with friends and busied myself while he was here. We got on amicably with no noticeable tension. He then returned back to his parents and on Monday morning he sent a series of messages asking me to agree to a separation agreement and to sign to agree the equity each will get from the house and that I won’t touch his pension. Sorry to say that I lost my [censored]! Told him that I am not signing ANYTHING that may affect me in the future, and that things like that are decided in a divorce! He then demanded that I agree to divorce grounds of my unreasonable behaviour and he would issue proceedings. I told him that I am not lying on a document just to give him a quick and easy divorce. I sent him a long message telling him that I have felt unloved, unrespected and felt no support or compassion from him as a husband for several years and that was a huge factor in my mood and unhappiness so therefore me ‘nagging’ or being ‘snappy’ was justified in that sense. I went on to tell him that our marriage was a vicious cycle of stress, unhappiness and even hatred that neither of us made an effort to fix. I thought he would come back blaming me totally again but to my surprise he apologised for his behaviour and agreed with everything I have said.
Not sure what this means, but he’s coming to see the children this weekend so we will see how that goes.
That sounds very hard, Monkey.
I think the general advice here is that if your H wants a divorce, you don't stand in the way of him getting it. He can write what he likes as grounds for unreasonable behaviour, and you can decide whether to contest it or not. Even if you contested it - and most UK divorces aren't contested - all it does is delay the inevitable, and doesn't bring you back together. It doesn't fix anything. It sounds like in your heart of hearts you know that, as far as the legalities go, you could divorce him for unreasonable behaviour and he could probably divorce you for it too. Most of us are here because we have had long periods of being very unreasonable and living with people who are also unreasonable. Like you say, it's a cycle and trying to focus on 'who started it' and who gets to divorce who first won't fix it. It's very good he stepped away from blaming you and acknowledged that you're in a bad place you both got to together. Can you do that too?
What are your plans for the weekend? I think being cordial but distant and letting him have time alone with the kids and using your own time to GAL is a good idea. I think refusing to sign anything legal without representation of your own is a good idea too. You don't have to stand in his way, but there's no need to roll over and agree to whatever he wants especially if it isn't financially in your interests to do so either.
Monkey, I'm not sure where you are in the world. Divorce law is different in the UK to the states.
Is a separation agreement such a bad thing? It may protect you financially (depends on your location)
Why would signing divorce papers be lying? In his eyes, the marriage has irretrievably broken down. When asked why; he is saying because of your unreasonable behaviour. Does it matter if it's yours or his unreasonable behaviour, (because you have referred to both in previous posts)
Are you objecting to Divorce because you wanted the divorce to acknowledge his unreasonable behaviour, not yours? Would you contest the divorce petition? In the UK that is tremendously expensive, time consuming, emotionally draining and most often unsuccessful.
From the outside it all looks a bit tit for tat. We all understand the anger, but everytime you get angry it just proves to him that he's made the right decision.
Hey, I'm all for letting them have it both barrels but in your case is it getting you closer or further away from what you want?
If you don't yet know what you want then take some time. There's loads of advice on here about communicating so that you don't smash down bridges and give yourself time.
If he mentions divorce / separation agreements again, don't engage. Tell him to put something together in writing and you will take advice on it. Do not discuss terms with him at this stage, unless you are sure it is what you want. There's story after story on here about walkaways saying they want a divorce and never getting their acts into gear.
There are signs that you are starting to assess your marriage with rational thought rather then pure emotion. Once the emotion has lessened then you are in a better position to do what is right for you.
Time and minimal contact will help you immensely.
Thank you both of you.
I am in the U.K. I don’t object to a separation agreement, just not on the terms he wants. Also, he wants a quick divorce as he wants to protect his pension ASAP whereas I am fairly certain there is a OW now and I want to wait for her to appear before I agree to anything. I don’t want a divorce, I do have hope of reconciliation but also I want to be more emotionally stable before I commence that battle.
I'm sorry to hear that you think there's an OW. That must be hard. I wonder what it changes though? If you don't want a divorce, and you're content to agree to negotiate a separation agreement, just tell him to send a draft to your solicitor and you can deal with it dispassionately via your legal representatives. If he wants a quick divorce, he can take the lead on the paperwork and you can respond in your own time via your solicitor. It doesn't matter if he petitions you for unreasonable behaviour and presumably you won't petition him for adultery if you don't want a divorce. So there's no real need to have a discussion about it? The content of the separation agreement won't be affected by the presence, or otherwise, of an OW, will there? I guess you need to think about what your boundaries are regarding the OW and your children and contact, but even so, from what I understand if he has shared residency then it's up to him what happens when he has his contact, and unless you can demonstrate OW is actively a risk to the children, it's up to him whether he meets her or not.
It's grim, I know. Sorry.
I think concentrating on your own emotional stability is very wise. Important for us all to keep up with GAL and concentrate on our 180s. Really hard when we're so depleted and all the practicalities of life are up in the air, I know.
Definitely go and see a lawyer. You can get free initial consultations. See as many as you need until you find the right fit. Mine is great and I feel in very safe hands.
I too thought about a separation agreement. I was advised against it in my circumstances. As he is on a bit of a reckless spending spree (for 20 years it transpires lol) the financial situation was just as likely to get worse as it was to get better. If we proceeded to divorce then the financials have to be done again and he could ask for the agreement to be altered.
The Form E that has to be completed for divorce is daunting, but it's a court document and has to be truthful.
I'm sorry to say that I would have put money on there being OW.
I keep hoping that mine will move in with her because then he can't claim the same housing costs! Sadly, apparently she's told him she doesn't want him full time, more of a friends with benefits kind of relationship. Shame. He thinks he such a catch that she'll soon change her mind. That's why there are £100 bottles of perfume on the joint current account.
In the spirit of sisterhood I hope she can see through it, but then again, serves her right.
Monkey, the whole flipping thing is just awful but get as much knowledge as you can about your options. Find a professional who will tell you like it is and not sugarcoat and dillydally. Knowledge is power.
Rather a big update from me.
This last week he has been acting strangely, messaging and phoning and asked if I was seeing someone (I’m not, so I said no). He brought the children home a few days ago and asked again if I was seeing someone and then proceeded to break down and tell me that he had had an emotional affair around a month before he walked away. He has since been seeing her and thinks he may love her but that a week of feeling intense jealousy and seeing me move on with my life and ‘get over him’ has made him realise that he cannot and does not want to live without me.
My response was shock and upset, that he could drop this bombshell on me now. I said I am not doing a ‘pick me’ dance with the other woman and that if we stand any chance of saving our marriage then he must end all contact with her immediately. I also specified open access to his phone whenever I feel the need and that most of all, the reason he was unhappy enough to look elsewhere needs resolving, no more burying our heads and not talking about things, no matter how painful or awkward we must talk and communicate. He has told me he has been having really dark thoughts for quite a few months before he left, I think maybe he needs professional help.
I am not sure our marriage can ever be repaired or how I get past the lies and deceit. He’s not moved back home yet, I am not sure that is the best idea.
I too don't think it's the best idea.
I'm sorry to say that you may not yet have had full disclosure. I had 3 mini BDs before big BD. 1. "I'm really unhappy with my life. No I don't want to be with someone else or live somewhere else" Cue 'pick me dance' from me. 2. "it's just an inappropriate friendship. Thank goodness it hasn't been sexual that would be really complicated" Cue more 'pick me dance' 3. on the finding of explicit texts " It's just been a 3 month fling" Major pick me dancing. 4. "it's actually been 2 years but I want my marriage, please just give me time" More major pick me dancing until I found out that when she rang when out on a night's drinking, he went out to pick her up and she stayed the night. No more dancing. It wasn't so much about the sex, it was the lies, lies and more lies. Even when found out.
The caution to my tale is that I too saw tears and tales of how dark a place he had been and that I didn't appear to need him or appreciate him.
Open access to the phone is no surety of anything. There are Hs who have bought 'burner phones' in order to appear whiter than white.
So, carry on doing what you are doing and see what ensues in the following weeks. He's told you that he's in love with another woman and that he can't live without you. At the moment he's just lining up his fill of cake. Heaven help him if you move on before he's decided if he wants to be with OW long term. Let's see if I can juggle a few things until I decide. Feeling jealous about your activities doesn't equal a saved marriage. Just shows his sense of entitlement in my view.
You don't need to do anything yet monkey. He's got loads to do. Time is on your side.
I am not sure that is the best idea.
It is not the best idea.
Do not let him back easy. Do some digging here. Sounds like you set some boundaries.
Here are words for you:
"I don't know how I feel about that"
"I need time to think about that"
"What are you willing to do?"
He needs to suggest to you IC and MC as well as the other things.
Keep coming here and getting advise on how to respond to him. Other have done this successfully.
Thank you.
Yorkie that sounds so much like me right now. I have not slept all night and feel like I am back at square one again. The heart wrenching, destroyed feeling has returned to me.
He has been messaging say he does not know how he feels, does not know if he has the strength to fight for us etc.
I don’t know what I want or need right now. I feel utterly betrayed by the lies but also relief that I was not going crazy when I was convinced there was an OW.
I told him I will be there for him through this dark phase, but I’m not sure I should or even want to be. A big part of me wants to tell him if he wants me back then he needs to show it. He needs to pull himself together and work on us rather than dwell on this fantasy life with the OW.
This is such a mess. Just as I was getting my life back together.
He has been messaging say he does not know how he feels, does not know if he has the strength to fight for us etc.
Then he's nowhere near being ready to reconcile. Here's the thing- NOTHING HAS CHANGED. So he had a little "moment of clarity" before slipping right back into the fog, that is not your problem!
I told him I will be there for him through this dark phase, but I’m not sure I should or even want to be.
If he needs emotional support he can turn to OW for that. You're not his mommy. Don't open the door to that role or he'll be crying to you about everything from OW to the weather.
A big part of me wants to tell him if he wants me back then he needs to show it. He needs to pull himself together and work on us rather than dwell on this fantasy life with the OW.
Absolutely. I wouldn't tell him now, but if he brings up any talk of recon again then tell him then.
This is such a mess. Just as I was getting my life back together.
HE is the mess, not you! Continue on with your life! Let him flip-flop around, he will for quite a while before he eventually hits rock bottom. THEN he may be serious about recon.
What a mistake I made.
He convinced me that it was me he wanted but with less than 24 hours since he returned to his parents he has told me that it is the OW he wants and not me. That the weekend was a mistake and he was confused.
One thing is for sure, my motivation for posting on here to begin with was to get him back. I don’t want him back any more. It disgusts me the way he can treat me, his children and those around him. I can’t believe that I trusted him to be a decent person.
Wish I could say I was surprised but you saw what I posted just before your update. I'm not clairvoyant, they just all do the same crap. Just use it as a reminder of why you need to stay on your own path!
Thanks AnotherStander.
He’s now said he will issue divorce proceedings. Part of me thinks I will just divorce him now and have a clean break (well as clean as possible where children are involved) but the other part of me thinks- why should I give him what he wants? He can wait until I am ready.
I must admit, most of the sadness has gone and I just feel angry, humiliated and unfortunately rather bitter, especially because he dragged the children into this.
Patience Monkey , take your time and you will prevail
He’s now said he will issue divorce proceedings.
From wanting to reconcile to full on divorce in what, 48 hours? They really are on a roller coaster!
Part of me thinks I will just divorce him now and have a clean break (well as clean as possible where children are involved) but the other part of me thinks- why should I give him what he wants?
Exactly. Why do all the work for him. If he wants a D so bad then he can do the work. That is unless it's putting you in a tough spot financially, sometimes you've got to do it to protect yourself, especially if he's a free- spending MLCer.
I must admit, most of the sadness has gone and I just feel angry, humiliated and unfortunately rather bitter, especially because he dragged the children into this.
You'll cycle through a lot of different emotions for a while, that's part of it.
I started divorce proceedings. I realised I have got to look after and protect mine and my children’s home and finances as well as our emotional well-being. I thought I would feel upset but actually it felt empowering that I am now taking control of things.
He was shocked, to say the least.
I started divorce proceedings. I realised I have got to look after and protect mine and my children’s home and finances as well as our emotional well-being. I thought I would feel upset but actually it felt empowering that I am now taking control of things.
He was shocked, to say the least.
Given where he is I'd say you are doing the right thing. Maybe some day he'll come out of the fog and be more like his old self, but until then you need to do what you can to protect yourself and the kids like you said. Good luck!
Thank you.
More confused than ever now. He’s finished with the other woman and is claiming MLC/breakdown, telling me he doesn’t want the divorce and that he wants me to hold off applying for the Decree Nisi while he gets counselling to sort himself out so that he can fight for our marriage.
Right now I don’t want him back, I’m not sure I can ever forgive him for what he has done or trust him again. Do I pause proceedings while I figure out if we ever have a future? Or do I say enough is enough and continue with them. I’ve no experience of breakdown/MLC so have no idea if this is just an excuse or what/how he/we get through this.
Be patient. Don’t make any promises. Watch, listen and wait. Make him do the work. (((HUGS)))
I second what DejaVU says. I wouldn't trust much of what your H does or says right now - he's in an emotional state. And you are too. So perhaps nobody making any drastic decisions and you concentrating entirely on getting yourself on an even keel are the most important things. Are you financially and physically safe? If not, do what you have to do to make that happen - including divorce. If not, then hang fire and wait until a) you're 100% sure, in calmness, that you want to end the marriage and move on and b) he's more sane.
I have got to look after and protect mine and my children’s home and finances as well as our emotional well-being.
Is this important to you?
Personally, I would keep going down whatever path you were headed down. H needs to come up with a "list" of things he is willing to do to save the marriage and then he needs to show consistent actions that he is doing what he says.
You should have a good idea of what his list should look like. If it is too short, then "That is not good enough"
Ask yourself, "Is he manipulating me?" Would someone else say he is manipulating you?
More confused than ever now. He’s finished with the other woman and is claiming MLC/breakdown, telling me he doesn’t want the divorce and that he wants me to hold off applying for the Decree Nisi while he gets counselling to sort himself out so that he can fight for our marriage.
Don't forget he came to you just, a week ago, wanting to reconcile and then 2 days later was full steam ahead on divorce. So now he says he wants to reconcile again? Nothing has changed. He's still engaging in crazy behavior and you still need to protect yourself financially. I would suggest you tell him to seek out help but that you are going to continue with D proceedings to make sure you and the kids are protected.
Right now I don’t want him back, I’m not sure I can ever forgive him for what he has done or trust him again.
Exactly, it's going to take SERIOUS EFFORT on his part before you can even think about trusting him again. And hollow promises are NOT serious effort, they are worthless coming from him.
Do I pause proceedings while I figure out if we ever have a future?
No. Stay off the roller coaster. Continue your course of action. It will take a long time for the D to go through, you can reevaluate later if he really is working on himself. And I mean WORKING, not TALKING. Words are dirt cheap.
I’ve no experience of breakdown/MLC so have no idea if this is just an excuse or what/how he/we get through this.
Don't believe anything he says. Believe his ACTIONS, and so far he's shown you no actions to indicate he's all-in on the M.
I’m back, with not such a great update.
I (not on purpose) ignored advice and undid all my hard work that I had done to GAL. I was drawn back into the rollercoaster that is his life.
I don’t want to go into too much detail, as he found me on another forum I am and stalked my posts, showed them to the OW and had a good laugh at me and humiliated me. I have at least had the sense to not allow him to be in my life to the degree he said he wanted. Unfortunately he was continually telling me he loved me while doing all this with the OW and she found out and has harassed me since. The only plus side to this is that he has now seen how crazy she has been and so have his family, who I spoke to recently for the first time since he left. I now have their total support as of course they were not aware of how he has treated me. I am not sure there is any way back for us from this, but if this is some kind of MLC, at least now they are aware and can hopefully drum some sense into him to get his life back in order in terms of his mental health and his job that he is on the verge of losing.
I have continued divorce proceedings and he now has my wedding ring- I told him to take it otherwise it was going down the drain.
I am now on my own mission to GAL and re reading the ‘rules’ every time I feel weak. Previously when I was trying to implement them it was with the aim of getting him back, this time it is for me to get over him.
I am now on my own mission to GAL and re reading the ‘rules’ every time I feel weak. Previously when I was trying to implement them it was with the aim of getting him back, this time it is for me to get over him.
I'm sorry he took advantage of your good intentions. At least you'll never wonder, "What if?" No shame in fighting hard for someone you love. May your next partner reward it. Take care!
Sorry to hear the setback, glad to hear the progress.
Best of luck on your journey.
I’m back, with not such a great update.
I (not on purpose) ignored advice and undid all my hard work that I had done to GAL. I was drawn back into the rollercoaster that is his life.
I don’t want to go into too much detail, as he found me on another forum I am and stalked my posts, showed them to the OW and had a good laugh at me and humiliated me. I have at least had the sense to not allow him to be in my life to the degree he said he wanted. Unfortunately he was continually telling me he loved me while doing all this with the OW and she found out and has harassed me since. The only plus side to this is that he has now seen how crazy she has been and so have his family, who I spoke to recently for the first time since he left. I now have their total support as of course they were not aware of how he has treated me. I am not sure there is any way back for us from this, but if this is some kind of MLC, at least now they are aware and can hopefully drum some sense into him to get his life back in order in terms of his mental health and his job that he is on the verge of losing.
I have continued divorce proceedings and he now has my wedding ring- I told him to take it otherwise it was going down the drain.
I am now on my own mission to GAL and re reading the ‘rules’ every time I feel weak. Previously when I was trying to implement them it was with the aim of getting him back, this time it is for me to get over him.
Goodness...
Who are these people we have married?!?
Ah Monkey - I have sometimes wondered how you were getting along. I am so sorry your H and his OW humiliated you in that way. Whatever else has happened on both sides, that's petty and cruel and unnecessary. I'm glad you're moving forward. It is horrible to be stuck and it is horrible to have to move forward alone, but I think you've chosen the best of the options available to you.
I sometimes wonder if the spouses who behave so utterly outrageously are easier to move on from? Maybe not, because that humiliation sounds hard to take, but I can imagine that it really helps detachment! Whereas a spouse who is just common or garden confused and confusing and occasionally horrible might give you more false hope and hanging out for possible change. In any case, I wish you luck with your GAL and your H's MLC is no longer your problem (the OW sounds pretty messed up too, what a pair!)
It’s easier in a way, but not in others. I think about how he has treated me and it makes me so utterly sad that a man who was once kind and caring and loving, would do that kind of thing. Then I channel my anger into detaching, focusing on me etc so I’m that sense it helps.
He (again!) is not liking the no contact, he really can’t handle not knowing what is going on in my life. He has phoned to speak to the children twice in two days now (usually only a couple of times a week at most) and he is trying desperately to talk to me about normal stuff and ask what’s going on but I have just shut him down and gave the phone to the kids.
I am annoyed that a part of me does want to talk to him, but I am NOT letting him do this to me again.
I will see him later today for Father’s Day, I’m a bit unsure of how that will be but I am going to re read the rules over and over and out all my energy into not showing emotion and detaching.
Hi Monkey. I hope Father's day went well for you. I saw H very briefly - he picked Youngsest up. I had him all ready and wished them a very good time together, and he brought her back a few hours later and I made a big fuss of Youngest and let H slink away. I had a sad moment - thinking about how much we used to love each other and how I used to drive home fast from work so I could see him - and now he's just some guy who drops off my daughter and who, generally, I am relieved to see the back of. But it passed very quickly.
Thanks Alison, as it turns out it was a bit of a turning point for us. I’m sorry you are feeling like that. I am still amazed at how much people can change.
So 3 weeks ago it was Father’s Day, he initiated relationship talk. Since then he has ended all contact with OW, and has been putting all his energy and effort into repairing our marriage. He is doing all the right things, and I am trying too. He has not yet moved back in (I am nervous of this) and I have not yet stopped divorce proceedings. Things are going well, but (and it’s a huge but) I don’t trust him. I don’t trust that he won’t contact her again, and I am also struggling to move past the affair. I find myself thinking of things they did together etc. It’s eating me up inside. I am hoping with time this will improve.
It is difficult as many people say not to take him back, once a cheat always a cheat but I do believe had our marriage not been in trouble in the first place, he wouldn’t have cheated, plus we have children to think about. I do think I’m doing the right thing with trying again, but I don’t think I realised how difficult it would be.
is he willing to do IC and / or MC with you? Can he talk about his own thought processes around his poor decision to have an A without blaming you for them? Is he committed to total transparency with you for as long as it takes?
I think you're right not to have him move in just yet - there's been a lot of up and down and to-ing and fro-ing with him, and (though I don't have personal experience in piecing or R yet) all the vets say it takes a really really long time for the WH to have a deep down change of heart and put in the work needed. It's only been three weeks. What you say about the marriage having problems prior to his A is really positive - and you taking responsibility for your part in those problems is positive too - but it is going to take a really long time to rebuild trust and he's going to have to accept that.
I hope some more experienced people can come along and give you advice. For the time being, I think taking it extremely slowly and not raising the expectations of the children is the wisest thing to do.
I have not updated in a long while.
My husband has been living back in our home for over 6 months now. As far as I know he ended all contact with OW, and I have not heard from her since.
I am trying to forgive what he has done, but I am struggling. I do not trust him. I trusted him once and he betrayed me beyond comprehension, I don’t know if this will ever come back. If you asked me 6 months or a year ago whether I loved him, the answer would have been yes, no hesitation. Now, I am not so sure.
I fought for our family to be back together again, but I don’t think I am happier. I feel like he has ruined what we had. He refuses to talk about the affair, he says he doesn’t want to rake up the past and we should try and move on. Sometimes he is lovely, the sweetest man, but other times he is just... indifferent.
I don’t know whether it is just the time of year- it is just over a year since he walked away, so I keep thinking back to where I was a year ago, that he was with her etc. I don’t know how long to give it. How do I move forward?
I am trying to forgive what he has done, but I am struggling. I do not trust him. I trusted him once and he betrayed me beyond comprehension, I don’t know if this will ever come back. If you asked me 6 months or a year ago whether I loved him, the answer would have been yes, no hesitation. Now, I am not so sure.
Completely understandable. I think Steve and others who have reconciled would be quick to tell you that learning to trust again is the hardest part. Part of your terms of reconciling should have been that he give you full access to his phone and all social media account passwords. Did you do that by chance? Any WAS that's willing to recon after cheating will be happy to comply. If they don't then they are not worthy of being trusted until they come around.
I fought for our family to be back together again, but I don’t think I am happier. I feel like he has ruined what we had.
You will never have what you had before, things have changed permanently. You've got to learn to live with it and keep moving forward. As Steve hinted, IC and MC can help you navigate this.
He refuses to talk about the affair, he says he doesn’t want to rake up the past and we should try and move on.
If he is really onboard with reconciling then he needs to accept that YOU need to know, and right now, YOUR needs outweigh his. Again MC can help with this, an impartial 3rd party can describe to him why you need to know and encourage him to open up about it.
We are not going to MC, I was IC but I stopped a while ago. I have tried to get him to attend MC with me but he has refused so far.
He says he is happy, that if he didn’t want to be here then he wouldn’t be.
I do not have access to his phone and devices. The condition was that he allow me full access, that I would not snoop but that if I needed to look through to reassure myself then he would allow that without a problem. He did, and as time has gone on I have needed to check less. However, we did have an incident last night where I asked to have his phone to take a picture of something quickly, he was going to give it to me then hesitated and refused. This set huge alarm bells off and I requested his phone shortly afterwards. There was nothing on there, but I checked WhatsApp to see if the OW number was blocked and it was not. I can’t 100% remember whether it was blocked before or whether just deleted but I cannot stop thinking about it in my mind.
It does not help that he has taken the children to his parents this weekend and is going out with friends tonight.