Hi guys,
Firstly, what a fantastic community and resource. It has been a tremendous help since the rug was pulled from under me a few weeks ago.
My wife and I have been together since we were 17 (both 31 now), and married for 3 years, at which point we moved into our home together. No kids. She is the love of my life.
3 weeks ago, she gave me the 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' talk. I did all the stupid things many of us go through before finding DB.
Reflecting on what's happened, there are many signs that my W has been quietly going through an MLC and trying to deal with it herself over the past year.
For most of her career, she was a nurse at a children's hospital. She loved everything about the job, but the shift work was starting to get to her. Just over a year ago she enrolled in a new course at uni and also got a part time office job. Let's just say her new office job is less than mesmerising and I know she has been struggling with the adjustment. In hindsight, I could've done more to make her feel supported during her transition.
Even before dropping the bomb on me, I'd noticed a distinct lack of intimacy a couple of months ago. Since reading about W's go through MLC in their 30's, she's doing all the textbook things -
Going out drinking much more often with her younger single uni friends
Putting a lot more effort into her looks when she goes out - but not for me
Plastic surgery (something she told me she's always wanted, so I was supportive)
Spending much more time on her phone/social media
Hanging out with male colleagues/uni friends solo, which is something she never did in happier times
She has verbalised that she feels like she has no identity and doesn't know her purpose in life
Saying "grass is always greener" things and that there may be people better suited for us, and that we're just too different
My dilemma is the following:
She has indicated that she needs space to decide if she actually want to even try to repair our relationship.
We've been to 2 marriage counselling sessions, but as I'm the only one that's been putting in the effort, we're not getting anywhere.
To make matters much more complex, her parents, who I love and get along with dearly, have recently moved in with us as they begin to renovate their house. What timing!
How do I give her space but being in the same house? I don't think it's right for me to have to move out.
In terms of my own mental sanity, I'm working out again and trying to GAL.
Any tips? I've stop all pursuits but I keep having a niggling feeling that she thinks I'm being cold and will feel more justified in her actions.
Thanks for your time.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Sorry you are here. There is nothing you can do but focus on yourself. Read everything. DB like a mad man. Unfortunately it sounds like there may be another man involved. Your W isca bit young for MLC.
Is she hiding her phone? Does she get really defensive if you ask about anything shes doing? Stop all pursuit and give her the space she wants. Its very important for you to detach. You will live but you will hurt. The faster you detach and focus on bettering yourself the quicker you will feel better emotionally.
Time to be the best version of yourself ever.
3 weeks ago, she gave me the 'I love you but I'm not in love with you' talk.
First please understand that once a woman gets to the point of BD'ing, she's already two feet out the door. Your whole life will get turned upside down and inside out. The good news is you'll come out the other side a better person, and possibly with a new relationship with her. But it's going to take a lot of time and a lot of work. I'm sure right now you are looking for the "magic button" to press and "fix" everything but there isn't one. Read DR and put it into effect. Give your W time and space and work on you. Accept that this is going to take a lot of patience on your part!
She has indicated that she needs space to decide if she actually want to even try to repair our relationship.
We've been to 2 marriage counselling sessions, but as I'm the only one that's been putting in the effort, we're not getting anywhere.
Stop going to MC. It's fine to go to IC, hopefully she will too but that's out of your control. But you should go. She's only going to MC so she can tell everyone she "even tried MC".
How do I give her space but being in the same house? I don't think it's right for me to have to move out.
NO don't move out!!!!! Don't move out of the MBR either, if she wants to then that's her choice but you stay put. Read Sandi's rules every day. Those are your template on how to give her space while in the same house. Don't follow her around like a puppy dog. Don't be needy. Get out and do things as much as you can.
Any tips? I've stop all pursuits but I keep having a niggling feeling that she thinks I'm being cold and will feel more justified in her actions.
Again read Sandi's rules. Giving her space does not mean being cold and indifferent. The idea is to LOVINGLY detach.
Any tips? I've stop all pursuits but I keep having a niggling feeling that she thinks I'm being cold and will feel more justified in her actions.
This stood out to me. Detachment is counter-intuitive, so we all have thoughts like this. However, has pursuit worked? My guess is that you tried it first and more than likely it pushed her further away. Detachment might not save your marriage. But it will save you. And pursuit almost never works.
So your choice is to detach or pursue. One has a chance to save your marriage, the other does not. One will save you from your sitch and the other will set you up for more pain.
This stood out to me. Detachment is counter-intuitive, so we all have thoughts like this. However, has pursuit worked? My guess is that you tried it first and more than likely it pushed her further away. Detachment might not save your marriage. But it will save you. And pursuit almost never works.
So your choice is to detach or pursue. One has a chance to save your marriage, the other does not. One will save you from your sitch and the other will set you up for more pain.
This certainly makes sense. I will continuing working on my detachment. Sometimes I do feel much better. I hope it gets easier.
Today we had lunch with her brother in the city. I get along with my brother in law, well, like a brother. Have known him the entire time my wife and I have been together.
Out of nowhere she mentions that we are having problems and are looking to do a trial separation. He is the first person to hear of our troubles outside of us.
My BIL is a great, balanced guy and recommended he catch up with us separately so he can get both sides of the story openly and without prejudice.
I also notice she's not wearing her ring today.
During the conversation I stood my ground and said that I don't think I should be the one to move out if she needs space. I wouldn't stop her from finding space, but I think that I should stay, since she's the one wanting out.
She said that it was her parents living with us right now in our home, and that it would be awkward for just me to be there. I countered and said that I get along extremely well with her parents, and if anything they would give me less pressure than they would to their own daughter.
Still unresolved at this point but I'm glad I at least expressed my view that it should be her to move out. We have another spare bedroom she could move into, but it's completely her choice if she decides move out.
I'm hurting pretty bad about her not wearing her ring. She's at a new internship twice a week with 'like minded people' and I can't help but feel insecure right now.
Another question on the trial separation.
What rules should we agree to make it effective?
She says she needs space to figure out what she wants in life, and whether or not she wants to work our M.
If I'm trying to detach, is it bad for me to insist that we shouldn't be allowed to see other people during the separation? On the other hand, my boundaries as a man makes me think that would the ultimate betrayal, and not something I'm willing to accept.
I'm happy to give her space, in the hopes that it will help facilitate clearing her head, but I'm afraid if she has an A whilst we're apart I wouldn't be able to forgive her and ever reconcile the M.
I'm happy to give her space, in the hopes that it will help facilitate clearing her head, but I'm afraid if she has an A whilst we're apart I wouldn't be able to forgive her and ever reconcile the M.
Sorry to say this but pray for the best and expect the worst.
She likely will have an affair if she has not had it already.
So if that changes anything for you then start thinking that way now.
Another question on the trial separation.
What rules should we agree to make it effective?
She says she needs space to figure out what she wants in life, and whether or not she wants to work our M.
If I'm trying to detach, is it bad for me to insist that we shouldn't be allowed to see other people during the separation? On the other hand, my boundaries as a man makes me think that would the ultimate betrayal, and not something I'm willing to accept.
I'm happy to give her space, in the hopes that it will help facilitate clearing her head, but I'm afraid if she has an A whilst we're apart I wouldn't be able to forgive her and ever reconcile the M.
Kwandoku, if she agreed not to see other people during separation, do you think she would live up to it? I am of the firm belief that women don't need their own place to work on the MR, or find themselves. They need it to sleep with other people. Your current dynamic of having her parents live there makes that a little less of a truth, but still, her parents are probably going to be less questioning of her whereabouts and comings and goings as you would be.
Kwandoku, you need to really work on detachment. I am still seeing you hanging on tight. Her not wearing her rings should be like water off of a duck's back. Funny, she brings up your problems to her brother, and you are more upset about her not wearing her rings. Detachment is not so much something you do, it is something you are. Most people think detachments means being cold and distant. It doesn't. It means that you no longer react emotionally to the things she says and does. That is your goal. That she could tell you she ran naked through a train station, and you would be unfazed.
What rules should we agree to make it effective?
How are these rules enforceable? If she sleeps with someone and you say it isnt "allowed", then what is the penalty? She loses your "undying affection" which she doesnt care about anyway right now? Dont think about trying to 'control' her with the 'rules' of the separation. If you are going to proceed with such a thing, I would recommend that you think of it as a time to figure out what you want and what is important to you. Dont give her all of the mindpower to decide whether she wants to be with you....why does it have to be a given that you are all in once the trial period is over?
If I'm trying to detach, is it bad for me to insist that we shouldn't be allowed to see other people during the separation? On the other hand, my boundaries as a man makes me think that would the ultimate betrayal, and not something I'm willing to accept.
The I think you are within your rights to lay it out there for her at the start. "If you sleep with someone, then I cant accept that from a partner. Crossing that line will mean the end of the marriage for me." But dont expect that she will change anything she does based on your boundaries. They are for YOU to control what you will accept....not to control what SHE does.
Today we had lunch with her brother in the city. I get along with my brother in law, well, like a brother. Have known him the entire time my wife and I have been together.
Out of nowhere she mentions that we are having problems and are looking to do a trial separation. He is the first person to hear of our troubles outside of us.
During the conversation I stood my ground and said that I don't think I should be the one to move out if she needs space. I wouldn't stop her from finding space, but I think that I should stay, since she's the one wanting out.
This feels so incredibly inappropriate to spring this on you like that in front of other people. Frankly, I would have shut that conversation down and said that I wasnt interested in discussing our marriage with an outsider at this time. I think it is a terrible idea to use her brother as an 'arbiter' in this matter. You dont need to try to convince him to be 'on your side'....It really doesnt matter which side he is on. If he DOES take your side, then she will just cut him out anyway. And the likelihood is he will say 'I agree with you Kwandoku, but shes my sister, so what can I do but support her?"
The content of that last line is fine. But man is it strange to be having that convo in front of someone else. Next time, I would recommend you honor your marriage but discussing those types of manners with just W first.
I'm hurting pretty bad about her not wearing her ring. She's at a new internship twice a week with 'like minded people' and I can't help but feel insecure right now.
I feel like Im being too blunt and not empathetic enough when I say that she views herself as a single woman right now. So I get that it hurts, but she is going to do what she wants to do right now. And how you feel or what you think matters ZERO percent to her. So instead, how can you focus on GAL? What plans do you have for this week and weekend? How can you take your focus off of her and what she may or my not be doing?
My BIL is a great, balanced guy and recommended he catch up with us separately so he can get both sides of the story openly and without prejudice.
Be careful about what you tell him, because everything you say WILL get back to her. You do not want to come off sounding desperate and needy. Just say things like "I'm as surprised about this as you are" and "I think we both need some time and space to think about this." Be very generic and non-committal. Do not agree to marriage counseling or anything of the sort because she will just go do it to say "see I told you so, I knew this wouldn't work." It sounds like he fancies himself a mediator, but believe me when I say he has no idea what he's dealing with. His sister is completely checked out and done and there is nothing he can do that won't just make things worse. Just tell him you would prefer he not intervene right now.
I also notice she's not wearing her ring today.
Standard operating procedure for WAS's.
During the conversation I stood my ground and said that I don't think I should be the one to move out if she needs space. I wouldn't stop her from finding space, but I think that I should stay, since she's the one wanting out.
She said that it was her parents living with us right now in our home, and that it would be awkward for just me to be there. I countered and said that I get along extremely well with her parents, and if anything they would give me less pressure than they would to their own daughter.
AHA! I think we know now why she moved her parents in there, it was part of her plan to force you out. If true, that's pretty sinister.
Still unresolved at this point but I'm glad I at least expressed my view that it should be her to move out. We have another spare bedroom she could move into, but it's completely her choice if she decides move out.
Exactly. Stand your ground. Stay in the house. Stay in the MBR. It is up to HER if she wants to separate and move to another room or another place. That is her choice. You are not going to be inconvenienced by this anymore than you have to be.
What rules should we agree to make it effective?
If she leaves the house then establish rules about her visiting. Since her parents are there I'm sure she'll want to see them, but make it clear there is no revolving door for her once she leaves. She can only visit after giving you X amount of notice, and she needs to knock on the door or ring, not let herself in, etc. I'm sure she would never expect you to just walk into her place, so she needs to have the same respect for you.
She says she needs space to figure out what she wants in life, and whether or not she wants to work our M.
This is just "dangling the carrot"- giving you a little hope that she's still thinking about it. Rest assured, she is 100% DONE right now. She is NOT thinking about working on the M. She is only saying that to make you more compliant. IE- "well you need to move out of the house so I can have my space to decide whether to work on the M, in fact if you do move out I will probably want to work on it." It is absolute BS, don't believe it.
She may very well want to work on the M later, but not now. It's going to be many months or (more likely) a year or more before she gets to that point.
If I'm trying to detach, is it bad for me to insist that we shouldn't be allowed to see other people during the separation?
As the others said you can't enforce that, and even if she promises not to she will anyway. Don't believe anything she says right now.
I'm happy to give her space, in the hopes that it will help facilitate clearing her head, but I'm afraid if she has an A whilst we're apart I wouldn't be able to forgive her and ever reconcile the M.
It is very likely to happen sooner or later, and may already have happened. So decide if that really is a deal-killer for you. No one here will blame you either way, that's your choice to make.
Thanks for the responses. So helpful and 100% agree.
Whilst I don't believe she sinisterly planned to have her parents move in, as they had discussed it with us over a year ago, and the W has always been the one more uncomfortable with the idea - it certainly isn't helping the situation right now.
Today I messaged our MC to let her know we wouldn't be coming back in the near term. She was understanding as she had a pretty clear sense that the W was already leaning out of the marriage in our initial sessions.
I accept that the W is 100% done with the M right now, but what I keep flip flopping with is my feelings around detachment. I know it's the right thing to do, it just sees to counter intuitive.
Further observations/context -
She's not angry, nasty or resentful towards me, and was genuinely sad and torn up but when she dropped the bomb. She insists her lack of feelings stem from having a realisation that she and I two very different people and not due to any other factors in our R.
I know all too well that our R deteriorated to the point where she longer felt like she could love me, which I completely accept my responsibility in, and the "we're just too different" is her label on her feelings right now, but it's not something I/we can work on until she's ready.
Since dropping the bomb however, her personality has drastically changed and is acting out all the signs of an MLC. It seems like dropping the bomb was a huge weight off her shoulders and now she's acting like how she's wanted to for a long time.
My next challenge is standing my ground on the trial separation.
Should I have a preference on whether she moves into the spare bedroom or out of the house completely? I think to properly detach I should have none. In fact, it's probably better she moves out she can't use the "staying in the same house wasn't a real separation so I still don't know what I want" excuse down the line.
It's valentine's day today. First time in 14 years I haven't bought her a rose or made dinner plans.
Today I messaged our MC to let her know we wouldn't be coming back in the near term.
Good. MC is great if both spouses are just having some trouble and both want help, but when one goes WAS then it has no value at all. Your money would be better spent on a DB coach and IC.
I accept that the W is 100% done with the M right now, but what I keep flip flopping with is my feelings around detachment. I know it's the right thing to do, it just sees to counter intuitive.
DB'ing is definitely counter-intuitive. Here's why. Every time you've had a fight or argument or disagreement you settled it by reaching out to your W, buying her flowers, taking her to dinner, apologizing, maybe negotiating. So now you are programmed to think that's what works to fix things. But dealing with a WAS is radically different than dealing with an unhappy wife. What worked before will NOT work now. The very things that worked before will just look to her like you are needy, desperate and pathetic because she is 100% checked out, no longer in love, convinced you are a boat anchor preventing her from sailing into a beautiful new life. You can't stop her from sailing away, all you can do is let her. She has to learn for herself that her problems are not you, that they are internal demons she needs to wrestle down. It takes a lot of time. So that's the one thing you can give her right now that works- time.
Now I am not saying be cold and indifferent and insensitive. No, that's not it at all. LOVINGLY detach. Read Sandi's rules every day and let them guide your behavior.
Since dropping the bomb however, her personality has drastically changed and is acting out all the signs of an MLC. It seems like dropping the bomb was a huge weight off her shoulders and now she's acting like how she's wanted to for a long time.
Yes, that is not uncommon.
Should I have a preference on whether she moves into the spare bedroom or out of the house completely? I think to properly detach I should have none.
You are correct. Many WAS's see their husbands as controlling and manipulative even when they weren't. So your goal is to let her make all her own decisions. I'm not saying to agree with her, it's more like: "W, I would rather you stay here and work on the M but if S is what you want I will support your decision." But it is HER decision to make. You open the cage door, she decides whether to step through the door or not.
Thanks AnotherStander, that makes a lot of sense - to tell her how I feel, but ultimately the decision is hers.
On whether or not she's having an A, emotional or otherwise, how or should I try to find out?
I've asked her a couple of times and she vehemently denies there's OM. She has mentioned potential greener pastures for both of us out there, so there's definitely at least an imaginary ideal partner that's "more like her" out there in her mind.
The reason I ask is because although I should be detaching, how hard I come down with tough love on a wayward wife as Sandi points out is different from a WAW without OM.
For instance we're still currently in the same bed, but if I knew for sure there's an A, then I would insist that she move out of the MBR.
How do I get to the bottom of this without snooping?
Going out drinking much more often with her younger single uni friends
Putting a lot more effort into her looks when she goes out - but not for me
Plastic surgery (something she told me she's always wanted, so I was supportive)
Spending much more time on her phone/social media
Hanging out with male colleagues/uni friends solo, which is something she never did in happier times
She has verbalised that she feels like she has no identity and doesn't know her purpose in life
Saying "grass is always greener" things and that there may be people better suited for us, and that we're just too different
K,
These are all signs she is having an affair with one of her co-workers. Is her phone pass protected? Doe she take it everywhere including the bathroom?
Just so you know I highly doubt she is going through a MLC at age 31.
Well guys, it's confirmed.There's OM.
Someone she goes to uni with. Someone more like her.
I feel like my heart has collapsed, and it's hard to swallow.
She was going to Singapore alone for a few days in April to find herself before heading to a yoga retreat. Turns out she had booked tickets for the both of them.
I don't know what to do. Do I confront her?
I feel like I should ask her to leave.
So sorry to hear this Kwandoku. I don't know what you should do exactly. Other people will be on here to give you some advice. My advice is to not do anything impulsively and to give yourself some time to think first. (((HUGS)))
K,
Sorry to hear that but it is so predictable in these sitches. Before you do anything is an affair a deal breaker for you?
You can ask her to leave but you can’t force her to leave.
The first thing we suggest is to ask her to leave the marital bedroom or better yet move her stuff into the guest room. That is a sign of strength that you are not going to share the marital bed with a cheater.
Just know she is probably going to fight it. If she asks you why just say you know why.
Once we know more about you stance on an affair we can discuss confronting her.
Again, I’m really sorry you are going through this right now.
Truth is, right now, I have no idea how I feel.
Up until finding out I was 100% committed to finding a way through this. Prepared to give her as long as she needed.
Now, I don't know.
I feel like a line has been crossed, and she is without a doubt not the same girl I married.
Will I ever be able to trust again?
My plan is to as calmly as possible tell her she will need to find other sleeping arrangements tonight outside of the mbr.
We will see if she comes clean at that stage.
Remember do not tell her what you know. Only that you know it.
H: W you will need to sleep elsewhere.
W: You are such a jerk! I haven’t done anything to deserve this!
H: we both know that isn’t true.
Don’t reveal what you know. She will just deny it anyway. Mysterious man you must be.
Well guys, it's confirmed.There's OM.
Someone she goes to uni with. Someone more like her.
I feel like my heart has collapsed, and it's hard to swallow.
She was going to Singapore alone for a few days in April to find herself before heading to a yoga retreat. Turns out she had booked tickets for the both of them.
I don't know what to do. Do I confront her?
I feel like I should ask her to leave.
Im sorry you had to face this. Nothing hurts more. I also thought my WW was a WAS until i hired a PI to confirm. It hurts. Let yourself feel your emotions. I decided it was a dealbreaker for me. It hurt but I DBd like a madman and detached myself enough to see that my WW is a narcissistic emotionally abusive woman. I am just about to finalize D with her.
I have also started dating as well and have met another woman who is simply amazing. Taking it very slow on that end but there are better women out there that wouldnt even consider doing this to someone who loves them so deeply.
Keep posting. Keep up the DB and GAL. Life [censored] right now and the betrayal is very difficult to deal with. We are here for you to vent and talk.
Well guys, it's confirmed.There's OM.
Someone she goes to uni with. Someone more like her.
I feel like my heart has collapsed, and it's hard to swallow.
She was going to Singapore alone for a few days in April to find herself before heading to a yoga retreat. Turns out she had booked tickets for the both of them.
I don't know what to do. Do I confront her?
I feel like I should ask her to leave.
Also, a W going to WW seems like a trend once they start going to yoga and pilates and make a bunch of "free spirit " type friends. Thats exactly what mine did. My WW is no more than a piece of trash that mothered my children.
I will never trust her again and I will cut her completely from my life. I dont allow a person who could hurt me so badly to be in my life at all.
Thanks SoTorn.
Before finding out about the A I told myself that I would accept anything but an A to repair our relationship, even if it took years.
Now though, I just feel numb. One second angry, one second bowling my eyes out, the next second calm and collected.
The OM is a uni 'friend'. 5 years younger than she is and studies sustainability as she does. Cares about the environment but has no moral values.
I'm back home and have put some of her clothes and toiletries at the base of the bed.
Thanks for all the support.
Deep breaths.
Sorry about the news Kwandoku. Set boundaries and stick to DB basics. You have a long road ahead.
Keep reading what you are getting here and keep posting. It´s time to detach and work on yourself. GAL is very important, try to get it.
It takes time and patience. You need to be strong. Start walking man. You are not alone.
Confronted the W about OM tonight when she got home.
As expected she pulled out all the stops - played dumb, kept asking me what's wrong, etc, never admitting to anything.
When I presented her with the proof of the air ticket, she says that they are just friends and for convenience booked the tickets together.
She vehemently denies she has feelings for him, but admitted that he may have feelings for her, but hadn't acted on anything yet.
I told her I wasn't going to be the fool who waited around for that to happen.
Here's the kicker, to her she was perfectly justified to book the flight with her "friend" because apparently we had agreed to separate already - we had not, merely had a conversation to entertain it as a way to give her space.
We didn't actually have the talk around the logistics of separating, boundaries etc. She was still in our bed up till last night! Tickets were booked Feb 5 ...the day of my birthday no less.
I told her in plain English that she would not be allowed to sleep in our bed tonight, and that tomorrow morning we could facilitate the actual separation discussions. Not a trial one, but an actual one.
I'm in so much pain. Don't think I'll be getting any sleep tonight.
Stay strong there man. Remember: believe nothing that they say and half of what they do...
Take your time, set and keep your boundaries. NO steps back. No open M clearances.
Stay away from MR talks. Keep DBing.
You can do it man. You are just at the start of the marathon. Deep breath and go: forward!
Thank you Neffer.
I honestly wouldn't know how I'd be coping right now had I not found this forum for encouragement and guidance from all of you.
The cat is out of the bag now. My inlaws, who are currently stay with us, know there's something up.
I've told them that we will tell them what's going on, ie the separation, tomorrow morning. I feel bad for them, they have been my equal parents for the past 14 years, since I was 17.
I wonder how the W will defend her A "friend" and trip. She is deep in the fog I'm afraid, and just getting started.
I know I made the right call tonight, but I recurring doubts that maybe at this stage they are just friends.
I'm not naive enough to think that it wouldn't just be a matter of time before it turned into a full blown A, especially on their trip to Singapore, but still, have I just pushed her directly into his arms?
No, she was already gone.
Kwandoku, we usually warn newcomers that are sure their WAS has no one else to brace themselves. Either they really do or there is one waiting in the wings, or the WAS is on the prowl for one. However, it doesn't change what you should do much.
One thing it does do is requires no sexual contact between the two of you. Don't put your own health at risk. Also, kick her out of the MBR. When she argues, complains, cries, asks where she should sleep, etc, you stand firm. That is not your problem. Your stance should be that you refuse to allow a cheater to share the MBR with you.
Kwandoku, stay strong buddy. It will get better!
I know I made the right call tonight, but I recurring doubts that maybe at this stage they are just friends.
K,
It is normal to have doubts because you can't believe that your spouse would actually do something like this to you. Unfortunately I am willing to bet my savings account they are more then just friends. At this time you have a short window to turn this around if you stay strong. If you act weak and don't set boundaries your chances for a quick turnaround diminish substantially. It's really hard but you need to stay strong.
Thanks Steve.
I didn't want to/was blinded by my W ever in a million years having an A. I've accepted she is not the same person I married. A stranger in my W's body.
She is staying the night at her brother's place. He called me to ask if that was ok, to which I replied I have no concerns over where she stays now, so long as it's not here. After 14 years together, we're as close as actual brothers. This [censored] for everyone.
We haven't had sex for over 2 months, and there's no chance of that happening at this stage. 3-4 months ago we were trying for a child. I guess the silver lining here is that we don't have children...
Also, I am not sure you made the right call confronting without a game plan. What if she continues? Are there consequences? What are the consequences?
First consequence is that she loses the MBR.
Second consequence is that we officially separate, at which point she will have to move to the spare bedroom or out of the house, splitting our finances so that she can no longer fund her A with our money etc.
At this stage I'll be moving towards a D.
K,
Just so you know in house separations rarely if ever work and it usually allow the WW to cake eat while sucking the life out of the LBS.
First consequence is that she loses the MBR.
Second consequence is that we officially separate, at which point she will have to move to the spare bedroom or out of the house, splitting our finances so that she can no longer fund her A with our money etc.
At this stage I'll be moving towards a D.
Kwan I support this. Most states (assuming you are in the U.S.) do not allow you to "boot" her. She has a right to stay in the marital home just like you do. However, yes, keep the MBR. As LH says IHS isn't always ideal but unfortunately for most couples is a legal and financial reality.
Plus it gives her the opportunity to see a man only a fool would leave. This is why you need to be strong, confident, kind, present, but detached. Treat her like the cashier at the store.
Hang in there and post often!
Thanks guys.
I agree IHS would not be my preferred option either, but ultimately can't boot her out, and I'm certainly not leaving the marital home either.
No you are not. Try to detach and work on yourself. As Steve says, use the time you are given to get into amoafwl.
You need patience and consistency. No steps back. Just move forward K!
Keep posting, keep DBing.
K, I think you were right to confront her about this and it's no surprise that she denied and played dumb. You did well standing firm in the face of this. Her line that they booked together out of convenience is the kind of outrageous lie that only a WAS could deliver with a straight face. Now you've got to stand firm because if you back down from your position then she is going to see you as weak and easily manipulated.
Also while it is true that you can't legally kick her out, you can most certainly demand that she leave. And she might. So that's an option.
No matter what she says to try and "explain" things to you, just tell her you know what she's doing and you won't be disrespected by being lied to and leave it at that. The only way you should be willing to listen is if she is offering a heartfelt apology.
As a side note this news officially puts your W into the "wayward wife" category which is different than a WAS. Read through Sandi's comments in people's threads, she talks a lot about the wayward mindset. Your wife has zero respect for you right now so you've got to stand firm to get the respect back.
Thanks AnotherStander.
I've been reading everything Sandi's posted religiously. There's not a shadow of a doubt that my W is a WW and not a WAS now.
I just got an alert which indicates she just tried to login to my facebook page.
She was angry I found evidence of the betrayal through her email. Apparently that's worse. Speaks volumes to her current mindset.
You can show her evidence but not sources. Protect yourself. Do you have a common account? Stop that. She must have an image of how´s real world from now on. You need to get your respect back.
Keep reading, keep posting. Be patient.
Yes we have a common account with a mortgage and a joint credit card.
I can move what cash is mine into another account. I'm not sure if I'll need her permission to cancel the joint credit card though?
This morning we'll sit down with her parents to officially let them now of our sitch.
No doubt there'll be more lies and lots of crying - how their good daughter is simply unsure of her feelings and doesn't want to hurt me etc etc. That she's done nothing wrong but maybe confide in a friend.
I will stand firm and let them know of the facts, and my intentions of a separation.
Instead of “standing your ground”, I’d mostly just listen. No matter what you say, they aren’t going to be on “your side” and even if they were, it wouldn’t bring your W closer to you.
We've agreed that tomorrow morning we'll discuss the logistics of the separation.
When she moves out, how we treat finances etc.
At this stage all of my actions would indicate that I'm proceeding with a legal separation leading to a D, since finding out about her A.
My question is, although I'd probably prefer a trial separation as a first step, and not legal one, I don't want to be seen as talking a step back.
She'll probably temp check me to see if I'm actually detached.
Should I ask what her goals for the separation are? Should I ask if she's made up her mind about ending the marriage or if she's still figuring that out?
Or do I just proceed with talking about the details of how the separation will work?
Kwan,
Let me start off by saying, that I am rooting for you, as I am for anyone one the board, and I do not want to come off as an ass, so do not mind the tone, its really ment as positive feedback, even though everyone going through what you are right now, most of all need a giant hug - so take it was a hug in disguise my friend.
So lets get down to it.
1. Do you want to get separated?
I mean, if not, then there is absolutely no reason for you to sit down and discuss anything with her in relation to her moving out etc. I am going to keep this very simple - so here is a metaphor: You my friend, got dragged to the circus, you'd didn't buy a ticket, you hate the circus, but here you are - its not your fault, but you are definitely not going to be the one who pays for the popcorn............... Split you financials asap, down to the last cent. become financial independant, your WW can't be trusted, and it can ruin your financial stability for years to come if you dont take care of yourself. You do not need to sit down and talk with her in order to make that call.
2. I see so much of my old self in your questions, and this in particular "She'll probably temp check me to see if I', actually detached - Should I ask what her goals are for the seperation? Should I ask if she's made up her mind about ending the marriage or if she's still figuring that out?"
I am again not trying to bash on you, but sorry, you aren't detached if thats your questions my friend. You want to be, I wanted to be, everyone one this board wants to get to that point, but dude, I was told its a marathon, its not, its unfortunately so much longer before you get to that point. But when you do, you realize, that you dont care about her tempt checks, because, you won't be reading into them as you are currently. You realize that you dont care about her goals for the seperation, because you are living your life, happy, proud and with a new drive for a better life with or without her, so you let her do the lifting, and you let her present her dirty work, and you dont get in the way, but you sure as hell do not sit down for tea and biscuits while you help her out. You do not ask about her marriage thoughts because frankly, it doesnt matter to you at this point. She will see any conversation about these pointers as nothing but pursuit. You have let go, and the only thing that will change that, is if she honestly comes crawling back, and shows you how sorry she is, and trust me, you won't have to mindread into that, because you will know. The problem is, that by that time, if you ARE detached, you most likely do not want that woman back in your life, sorry to break it.
3. To sum it up my friend: Here is what I want you to do.
I want you to realize your potential, and that is, that you are worth a woman that will wake up every morning, looking into your eyes, smiling, giving you a kiss and a hug. A woman that with the look in her eyes, shows you how much she loves you. We all deserve this, and this goes both ways - Right now, this woman is out there, waiting to meet you, it might very well be, that it is your wife down the line, but who knows. I do know, that right now, you are victimizing yourself, and you won't have chance of meeting this woman before you take a turn for the better. Get up, find yourself, be a confident person, what makes you happy? do it, what makes you sad? stop using your energy on it. Stop mind reading, stop helping your WW out, she can do the lifting, but you, you need to throw down the barbell. Dont engage in conversation, just listen, figure out what you want in life, figure out what you need to work on to better yourself. Analyze your relationship. She is the one with 2 feet out the door, but the blame is never only on the WW, so what did you do to help carve the path to this situation? Reflect on this, and make sure you dont bring it in to your next relationship.
K,
Again you are at a critical point to possibly turn this around quickly. The only thing you state is that you will NOT live in an open marriage and you need her to move out so you can have time and space to figure out what you want.
Do not ask her what her goal is for the separation. It's to pursue a relationship with the new guy to see where it goes. The longer she knows your plan B the more time she has to pursue the new relationship.
Do not ask her if she has made up her mind. She hasn't but if you ask her she will know you are attached.
You can't control what she is going to do but you can communicate what you won't tolerate. You have to set clear boundaries that if broken bring upon extreme consequences.
Are you strong enough to to do it? Good luck man!
Hurt and LH, thanks for the words of wisdom and tough love.
I really needed them.
Truth is, I think I'm still in shock. Right when I feel like I'm ready to cut things off and move on I get hit back right in the feels.
All that history we had.... gone.
One moment I'm so ready to move on completely and the next I want to scale right back down to a trial separation.
It was particularly hard coming back to the house tonight to find her side of the bedside cleared out and also her side of the bathroom. I don't think I'll be able to stay in this house after it's all over. Too many memories.
LH, good reminder. All I can do is stipulate what I want and need. I'll re-read the notes on validating as well.
I will be strong for myself and you guys. Thanks again.
Hurt and LH, thanks for the words of wisdom and tough love.
I really needed them.
Truth is, I think I'm still in shock. Right when I feel like I'm ready to cut things off and move on I get hit back right in the feels.
All that history we had.... gone.
One moment I'm so ready to move on completely and the next I want to scale right back down to a trial separation.
It was particularly hard coming back to the house tonight to find her side of the bedside cleared out and also her side of the bathroom. I don't think I'll be able to stay in this house after it's all over. Too many memories.
LH, good reminder. All I can do is stipulate what I want and need. I'll re-read the notes on validating as well.
I will be strong for myself and you guys. Thanks again.
What you’re going through right now is going to be one of the hardest things you’ve ever gone through. Trust me I know. You’re going to be on a roller coaster of emotions. One day you’ll think you’re detached and the next day you’ll want to pursue here. It’s hard, you love your W. Don’t beat yourself up or be too hard on yourself for your mixed emotions.
You’ve received some excellent advise, try to listen to what everyone said. But take one day at a time. Sending hugs your way!
I suggest you google the pros & cons of a trial separation. Some H's think they and the WW can agree on some ground rules to follow during their separation. However, when those ground rules have anything to do with her not dating/seeing someone.......she will not honor it. In fact, she may not honor any agreement that is not legally binding. Once a W has lied and betrayed her H (and perhaps deceived her parents/family).......it's not a big stretch for her to not stick to some "agreement" made between her and her H.
Understand this.......the WW does not want a separation in order to work on the problems within the MR, or to see if she'll miss her H, or to "find herself". She wants freedom! She wants to live like a single person.
If the H needs a cooling off period before he makes any final decisions, then a physical separation may be the answer. I strongly discourage an in-house separation.......especially if in-laws are staying under the same roof.
Thank you Sandi.
I am much clearer on this myself this morning.
The separation is for me, to really decide what I want to do in future. I won't impose any rules on the separation unless it's to protect myself, such as financials. No point even mentioning dating etc - she's already taken that step. Plus, as people have mentioned, its unenforceable.
I will ask the W to move out as soon as possible. Having her in laws here means that her life will not be very impacted, even if she doesn't have me. She will eat cake unless she moves out on her own. She's never lived by herself ever before so it'll be quite a wake up call I'd say - unless she moves in with OM.
Even then, he's a 25 yo uni student so I doubt his living conditions would be as nice as our home which we designed and built.
Even if she moves in with OM it will be a wake up call. You're putting all the pressure on some scumbag who more than likely is now getting in deeper than he ever intended. You remove yourself from the situation, and her negative feelings for you will be tested.
Don't let your feelings and fears stop you from doing what is right. Stay calm and in control at all times, it's very hard to do.
Have mixed feelings today.
W messaged me to try to convince me once again that there was nothing there and that they are just good friends.
There were a few back and forths with me basically saying that I didn't want to talk unless she was going to stop lying to me and disrespecting me.
She kind of apologised about the tickets and not telling me because she "didn't think it would help" but remains adamant that they are simply on the same flight and not staying together. Weak excuse.
No real remorse sensed in any of her messages - just all defences - "I would never cheat" "we're just good friends" "I started feeling this way before I even met him" etc etc.
Would she so readily throw away a 14 year old relationship for a platonic friendship?
Is she actually so naive to think that this guy had any other intentions going on this trip with her? And that she was inviting him along as a friend?
In my mind even if she hadn't done anything with the OM yet it was only going to be a matter of time. Better to find out now than afterwards.
Still, I can't help but feel a little doubt. It is SO out of character for the woman I married, but then I have to remind myself that she is no longer that woman.
Kwandoku,
I'm sure you've heard the "believe none of what she says" before. It still applies.
My advice would be that you stop having these conversations with her. It only make matters worse. Plus you have decided to separate. Who she flies where with, is none of your business anymore. I know you agreed not to see other people. Forget that agreement. It means nothing to her. WAS only agree to those terms to make you more cooperative and maybe to hinder YOU seing other people.
Time and patience. If she decides to come back to work on the M, you can adress it then.
A "friend" is WW way of operating to deflect responsibility.
Just be real with her when you have to and don't over engage. She's got her story and reality will get in the way of what she wants to believe.
W messaged me to try to convince me once again that there was nothing there and that they are just good friends.
This is all script. They are more then just friends.
There were a few back and forths with me basically saying that I didn't want to talk unless she was going to stop lying to me and disrespecting me.
I would just ignore the texts.
She kind of apologised about the tickets and not telling me because she "didn't think it would help" but remains adamant that they are simply on the same flight and not staying together. Weak excuse.
All BS.
No real remorse sensed in any of her messages - just all defences - "I would never cheat" "we're just good friends" "I started feeling this way before I even met him" etc etc.
All script. The only thing she is remorseful about is she got caught.
Would she so readily throw away a 14 year old relationship for a platonic friendship?
NO!
Is she actually so naive to think that this guy had any other intentions going on this trip with her? And that she was inviting him along as a friend?
No she knows why she invited him along.
In my mind even if she hadn't done anything with the OM yet it was only going to be a matter of time. Better to find out now than afterwards.
K, I hate to break it to you but a trip together is not likely going to be their first time together. You don't take someone on a trip on the first date. It's a progression.
Still, I can't help but feel a little doubt. It is SO out of character for the woman I married, but then I have to remind myself that she is no longer that woman.
It's normal to have doubt. The signs are very clear. I am sorry.
Agee with LH. You have a WW there, I´m sorry K.
Stick to DB
K,
Sorry about your sitch.
It’s a lot to let sink in. You will most likely want to do something to “test” how real it is and see if you can talk some sense into her. These are normal thoughts and reactions. They won’t do any good. No pursuit.
Have you figured out what you want to do without the flare up of emotions?
Be strong here. Let your emotions flow through and out and make decisions when you are sound.
DB. Keep posting.
Thanks for the reminders to stay strong guys.
I guess it's so confusing and hard because the old W I knew would never in a million years do something like this. But as Sandi said in her posts, she became a completely different person when she was in the fog.
I still don't think I'm in the right headspace yet to decide what I want to do. I haven't seen her in person since Saturday when she moved into the spare room.
I know it's not going to do any good contacting this other man, because I know who he is, but man, it's really hard some days. I have to remind myself that he is not the cause and just a symptom. But still, what a vulture going after vulnerable married women.
K,
About being vulnerable...
When I got BD, I told W I wished she would have been vulnerable to me, to have been open and honest enough. I know you mean vulnerable in the other sense but I hope you see what I mean. Your W was vulnerable to open enough to him on an intimate level and this hurts. I know it does. Many of us struggle with this part of it. We know this is so important to them and to lose that is one of the hardest things to deal with. If it was just sex, I bet it would be different... no but it’s not, it’s so much more. It’s the lying and covering up for him, planning the trip for him, lying to her loved one of umpteenth years for him. It’s painful. We’ve been there and many of us are still dealing with it. I want you to know it will get better.
You may want to confront him but you know she is not the innocent, vulnerable victim. She knows what she is doing. I don’t want to rehash what Sandi describes as the WW behavior. I’m sure you read it by now.
I can imagine these spikes of emotions. Whatever you do, don’t become impulsive and react. Gather yourself and read other people’s sitches to see how things played out so you can get a jump start on what to do or not do.
If you confront the other guy you are putting yourself in the middle and it makes you the bad guy. If something were to happen between them , she would not see you as the savior but as the reason why she is not happy. You can’t win, not like that. But you can let her deal with her loss. You win by moving on and not letting them dictate how you feel. I promise it will get better. We can guarantee you that.
Adam, you've described my feelings to a tee. It's not a potential PA that hurts the most, it's that she couldn't confide in her best friend and husband about her feelings until it was too late in her mind to try anything.
I know confronting him will do no good.
I'm trying to GAL and exercise has been helping. Last night I worked out with my younger brother and felt good, which was the first time I'd felt "good" for weeks.
To help me detach, I've written a list of all the ways my W's actions have hurt me since the BD. Reading it makes me angry. Is this healthy?
Guys, how strong should I remain on my position for her to move out?
I've told her she has some time to find a place, but didn't specify by which date she needed to be out.
I think the longer she stays home the more she'll eat cake. I do think moving out will be a rude awakening for her, but I mainly want her to move out because of the betrayal which she still doesn't admit to - or is her being in the spare bedroom ok?
K,
Ultimately you want her out of the house. Unfortunately you can't legally kick her out. So if she is willing to go then I would stick with asking her to leave.
In house separation rarely works and it is has been described as being "soul sucking" for the LBS.
You can bet your bottom dollar if she remains home she will eat cake. The question is are you strong enough to not spoon feed it to her?
I think so, LH, though my preference is still for her to move out. She seems to be looking at places, though I know it does take time to find something affordable where we live.
Today I asked her for her keys back to the car. I have a nice company car and don't want her using it to go see OM. She is borrowing one of her parents' cars now for work. No resistance.
She went to the phone store today to move her plan onto her own account as well. She texted me to ask me what I thought of this new plan she was looking at, but I didn't respond.
I think a big part of her eating cake is her parents staying with us. Her mum, retired, cooks most nights so there's always food. I've spent the past few nights eating out with friends or with my family.
I'll give it a few more days and report back on the sitch.
K,
I have to say you are handling yourself really well right now. Most newbies are a wreck right now and break most of the 37 rules/guidelines.
Please keep in mind that this will likely take a year or more to play out completely.
Thanks LH.
Tbh I still have my moments, especially when I'm alone in our room by myself. I'm trying only to come home to sleep so I don't stew in my thoughts.
Exercising with my brother has been helpful. I will continue doing that.
I also had a trip planned away with 3 of my closest mates for a week in mid-March. Up until now I didn't think I'd want to go anymore, but I think that would be helpful.
Most of my family/close friends want me to move on. I had a feeling they would hold this view. I still haven't made up my mind. I think time is on my side here. She's had a year to develop her feelings toward our MR. I've had 4 weeks. So will take some more time.
Question.
W's best friend and her maid of honour at our wedding texted me today to tell me she was in shock and happy to speak if I wanted to. I know the W told her about our sitch a couple of days ago.
I don't know if I should. Part of me wants to find out if the W had spoken to her about any of this in the past, or even if she mentioned the tickets she booked. But I also know whatever I discuss with W's best friend will most likely make it back to her. I very much doubt the W admitted to having an A as the reason for our separation.
W's best friend and her maid of honour at our wedding texted me today to tell me she was in shock and happy to speak if I wanted to. I know the W told her about our sitch a couple of days ago.
No. No. No. That would be a really bad idea. Whatever you said would go back to your W.
The quickest way to turn this around is your W has to feel that she may lose you.
Ok noted, will not talk to best friend. I had a feeling it wouldn't be smart.
I think all of my actions and interactions with the W since confronting her about her "friend" would indicate to her that she may lose me.
Going through the separation of finances, asking her to find her own place, not spending any time in the same room as her, should be a pretty clear indication.
Thanks again for the advice not to engage with her best friend.
Going through the separation of finances, asking her to find her own place, not spending any time in the same room as her, should be a pretty clear indication.
I went back to your first post and you indicated you did all the wrong things. I assume you mean beg and plead? You see after that she knows you a clearly cemented as her plan B option. She does not fear losing you right now.
Not blaming you everyone does it. When this is all over you will clearly learn that the only answer to I want a D/breakup is "Do you need help packing your bags?"
Oh yes I certainly made all the common mistakes when I first got the BD.
That was before I found evidence of an EA though.
Luckily by then I'd already discovered this place and was much better equipped to deal with it.
I now only respond to her messages regarding logistical things in our separation and never initiate contact.
K,
I am in an IHS and it doesn't do anything. Its stagnant. It doesn't send a clear message. Had I found this place early, I would have kicked W out. I was that emotionally charged up but I wasn't thinking clearly. I remember one instance W and I went back and forth a little on seeing who would leave. We both didn't so I couldn't force her out. She hasn't been blatant about anything for me to initiate on(I think she fears this, I know if I look for and engage OM, I will end up behind bars.) I thought about moving out and unfortunately I couldn't due to finances. All the while, W is cake eating and pretending nothing is going on...
I do not suggest getting comfortable with the idea of an IHS.
Sometimes we have to set our emotions aside to make it through the moment, the hour, the day.
What do you deserve? Men, we want respect right? And for the WW, that is the ultimate betrayal, to lose their own self respect and respect of their H to go wayward.
Be careful on telling too much too early to friends. Lets say you can turn this around in a year from now, what will all the people say that you've told? You and your W will have to face those challenges.
And no fraternizing with the enemy camp.
It's been 6 months from BD for me. I am to the point where if W served me papers today I would sign them and not weep. I don't have hatred in my heart nor is the emptiness all-consuming. I can see the writing on the wall and after W and I sell this house, the next step will be D. I don't want to live in limbo indefinitely and I would hope you think about that and make the tough decisions early. If you realize you love her enough to let her go, do that early. Show her. Do it from a position that commands respect. Remember to keep the road home paved smooth as well.
Thank you Adam. Your advice is always appreciated.
Where we live we need to be separated for a period of 12 months before we can get D, but in reality most of the work is done as part of the separation such as property settlement.
Here's by dilemma right now - all the evidence, and especially the ticket, points to her at the very least having an EA with OM. So why do I still have doubts? Is it because I'm not able to reconcile her behaviour now compared to the behaviour of the woman I married?
Should I look for more evidence or just leave it?
She can do whatever she wants now that we're separated, but I can't help but feel I need to be sure that the reason we are separated is because of her betrayal.
On the very very very slim chance that she wasn't having an A, but was flirting with the IDEA of having one - is that still a WW? Is that bad enough for me to instigate a separation?
These are the questions I'm struggling with right now.
When I feel more rational I tell myself that even if she hadn't done anything yet, it was only going to be a matter of time, and it was better for me time find out and act when I did, albeit pre-emptively.
Sometimes I feel like what if I jumped the gun, and by being hard on her and insisting she move out I've jumped pushed her closer to the OM?
Not telling me about the ticket was WRONG, and is a huge red flag for an A, but I guess it's not absolute evidence either. Am I just letting my feelings blind me from the truth?
K,
It is normal for you to feel they way you are feeling. It's hard to imagine that the person you married would betray you in that way.
You can snoop to find more evidence if you want but trust me when you find more evidence it will not make you feel better.
Again a married woman doesn't go away with another man hiding everything from her husband on their first encounter.
Also, look at her actions. She's not fighting it shouting from the rooftops that she did nothing wrong.
Hi,
I am a few weeks more down the line than you.. I started posted here in early January ( 2nd EA started in October 2018 )..
I tried to follow the advice on here, but also had to find my own path, before i could totally detach.
My partner had an EA with a guy at work in August 2018, then started another EA in October 2018, then started a further EA in November / Dec 2018 with a guy from the gym.
My ex partner took detaching really hard, and says it was detachment that finished us.... but i dont think it changed her overall decission really - again, just an excuse to carry on living the way she wanted. She was Cake eating and didnt know what she wanted - But she loved the best of both worlds.
She has since comminted to the gym guy ( although she would deny it on our childrens lives ) and sneaks around his house multiple times a week. She has cut contact with the EA guy from October.
The advise on here is to detach.. I tried in most ways, but still needed proof before i could totally detach. From my perspective, i kept digging - ( checking her phone, had a work friend follow her after work to see them meeting etc) until i knew it was more than an EA - Just for my own sanity if anything, as she lied lied lied. Its one thing suspecting, but i think "knowing" is important for some people - ( was for me ) - It was closure in some ways - and in my head knew i didnt want to ever be with a liar like her. I also found a valetines card for him on the 13th Feb...
That was a few weeks back. SInce the 13th Feb, i havent even given her phone a second thought, i dont bother to check if shes online and i generally leave her to it. I now look forward to her going out. She moves out in 5 weeks and it cant come soon enough. If children werent involved ( you are so lucky in that respect ) it would be earier, as for me this is the bad bit.. Its hard because they are affected and i will see them less - my eldest ( 7 ) has noticed my ex keeps going out at night asked "why is mummy always going out now"
I feel like i am detached now - i just needed to do it in my own time / way.
They are a different person to who you fell in love with / married.
One thing i have learnt from this is trust your gut.. Mine has been correct 95% of the time.
good luck
We try to ignore to protect ourselves. But we must face reality K.
I agree with LH. I am a former ww. Not proud of it. But the signals are common in all sitches. Going deeper into snooping will hurt yourself more and diminish the chances to MR survival.
So protect yourself but don´t close your eyes.
You need to regain respect. Read what Adam posted.
Stay strong man, it´s a marathon, time is your ally.
LH, you're right - she's made no effort to contact any of our mutual friends, or my family, about any of this. She knows I will be telling them the reason we are separated. If she truly wasn't doing anything, she'd be defending herself.
Help me, I'm so sorry to hear about your situation, but I do share many of your feelings. My brain just can't fathom her actions, but my gut is telling me otherwise. I think definite proof will help me truly detach, but at the same time I understand what LH and neffer are saying.
Thank you neffer - what brought you back from your fog?
We try to ignore to protect ourselves. But we must face reality K.
I agree with LH. I am a former ww. Not proud of it. But the signals are common in all sitches. Going deeper into snooping will hurt yourself more and diminish the chances to MR survival.
So protect yourself but don´t close your eyes.
You need to regain respect. Read what Adam posted.
Stay strong man, it´s a marathon, time is your ally.
I also want to know some of your thoughts on ww since you were one? I love readin sandis posts about the process and thinking during it
what brought you back from your fog?
Some abandonment issues that I wasn´t aware of at that time and also knowing that what I was doing was wrong.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=61472&Number=2797870#Post2797870Don´t expect something similar to sandi´s posts...have mercy on me please!
K, ease your mind. Keep in control of your life. That´s all you can control. We all talk about time and patience.
Keep yourself calm and use the time to read what you are getting.
Stay strong there man.
We try to ignore to protect ourselves. But we must face reality K.
I agree with LH. I am a former ww. Not proud of it. But the signals are common in all sitches. Going deeper into snooping will hurt yourself more and diminish the chances to MR survival.
So protect yourself but don´t close your eyes.
You need to regain respect. Read what Adam posted.
Stay strong man, it´s a marathon, time is your ally.
I also want to know some of your thoughts on ww since you were one? I love readin sandis posts about the process and thinking during it
Bubbs, the same applies to you: don´t expect sandi´s treasures...
Gonna get into your sitch then. I´m sorry I haven´t got the time to be more involved. It´s summer here where I live. I work in a water/environment profession so there´s not much time to be here now. Just some little time incursions.
Hi guys, just checking in.
Things have been relatively calm the past few days. I've been out of the house most nights GAL by catching up with friends and family, working out, and only coming home to sleep.
We haven't seen each other or spoken to each other in this time, aside from the odd message asking if she can grab something from the MBR, to which I respond with a yes and nothing else.
I've settled down a bit on my feeling of needing to find more concrete evidence. At the end of the day, you don't book a trip with another man and not tell your husband even when the relationship is going well, let alone after you tell your husband you have doubts with the marriage.
I got the BD in the mid of Jan, and the tickets were booked on the 5th of Feb. You don't just book a trip overseas, it takes some planning, which means this has obviously been in the works for some time. Whether or not they were already seeing each other before the trip doesn't matter. This act alone is enough of a betrayal.
You need to focus on yourself. Detach. Keep DB.
You need to be consistent with your changes. Be strong.
Tonight we had our agreed upon weekly catch up to mainly talk over logistical things.
Kept it strictly business, no R talk. Kept to the agenda, ie "have you set up your bank account?" ok good, I will close our joint credit card on this date etc etc.
No dramas, everything wrapped up in 5 minutes.
I get up to leave, and she calls out and asks if she should contact my parents and siblings (who I know she is very close with).
I say sure, you can do what you want. She asked what she should expect, and what I have told them as to why we have separated, which I said, the truth, that you are having an emotional affair.
She started to cry and then asked if they'd want to speak with her, to which I said no, which is the truth. Then she really started to cry. I simply left to go into my room after that.
Was that too cold? Should I have done that?
At the end of the day I didn't lie, both my parents and siblings are furious at her actions, and have told me that they do not intend to speak with her.
Maybe she's starting to realise what her actions will actually cost her.
It was hard to walk away with her crying. She has still not admitted to anything though.
You did well. No anger, no fear.
Keep DB!
Thanks Neffer.
Seeing her cry about my family not wanting to speak with her really got to me though. I left when she started to because I know if I'd stayed any longer I would've broken down too.
It was like I got a glimpse of my old W, who I hadn't seen in over a month, and it broke my heart all over again.
Maybe she's starting to realize what her actions will actually cost her.
K unfortunately this is highly unlikely, that will be many years down the road. She is thinking with her emotions and her feelings to the addiction of the affair supersede any kind of logic or reason.
I've been reading some old quotes threads by ready2change and there was some mention of the 2a Affair busting method or something to that effect. I can't seem to find what it actually was, does anyone here know?
The W still won't admit to any wrongdoing to anyone she speaks to. Is there anything I can do to move things along or do I just need to let it run its course whilst making it clear what my boundaries are - ie if she continues to lie and stay in the A then we will remain separated.
The tricky thing is before I found out about the A she'd already indicated that she'd want a separation. I guess it doesn't matter, because its also what I want if she continues to be wayward.
"some mention of the 2a Affair busting method or something to that effect"
It sounds like you are still looking for a magic bullet: do this and the affair will end. Etc.
There is no magic bullet. There is only doing things to work on you and improve you. That is what becoming a man only fool would leave is all about. It makes you look better than the competition! So keep detaching, keep working on your 180s, and keep GAL. Do not slow down on GAL. IN fact, pick up on it. Always be being busy. Do not think "Oh, she doesn't see when I m busy anyway, so I am not going to be busy. This is wrong thinking. Do not do anything to try to control or manipulate her or she will feel that and resent it.
K,
You are in a tough spot because she is choosing he AP over you. You separating while it shows some strength on your part isn't enough to stop the affair. She has no fear of losing you right now.
Your options are:
1. You can work on yourself and be plan B in hope the A fizzles out and maybe she comes back to you.
2. Decide this is BS and you love yourself too much to be someone's plan B and file for divorce.
The help is here man. Read and help yourself.
Time and patience. No magic bullets here, as Steve says. You need to detach so as to keep calm and control anxiety. This´s a marathon, you are just starting.
Stay away from her. Take time to yourself, you´ll need a lot. Read and learn, keep posting, keep reading.
Be there for your kids, that´s rule number one.
Neff,
He has no kids. I have less tolerance for WWs when there are no kids involved.
Thanks guys. I think I realise there are no magic bullets in this, but was curious to see if there was anything else I should be doing to be sending a stronger signal that her being in an A and lying to everyone around her about it is not ok.
For example, she's told me that it may take her at least 2 months to find a place to move out to due to budget constraints. I'm not sure if I should be pushing harder for her to be out by a certain date - I would certainly like her to be out sooner because she's cake eating whilst being home.
LH, on kids, you're right. I think its a blessing and a curse. I do think not having kids has made it easier in her mind to rationalise her actions. It should also be easier for me to walk away, but I'm not sure I'm there yet. All I know is that 6 months ago we were trying. Would it have changed things if we were expecting? Or is it a massive bullet dodged? I don't know.
k,
Sorry to hear about you guys trying and it didn't happen. Consider it a massive bullet dodged. Not only for you two but for the child. For most my life I've grown up without a father figure and there were some hard lessons I learned. I used to wonder what happened and if I was not good enough. My mother never told me the truth. This past summer I took a DNA test. I'm not what my mother has told me all my life. I confronted her about it months ago and she kept saying sorry...
I am trying to shelter my son from a lot of what I had to go through and it kills me that this is happening between W and I mostly because of the kids. I've had friends who were from split homes, I've known divorced men and women with kids and I've seen kids growing up now in split homes and it is always the same. My best friend is dating a lady with a girl who is a teen now. He's been dating the lady for years and her daughter is just now finding the courage to talk to him and let him know how much she hated him all these years. It breaks him. She told him he will never be her father but she still respects him. She still wishes her parents got back together. And here I am almost in tears by this. I reckon I'm partial to it. And there are people out there perfectly fine not having children or never wanting them.
I was like you in the beginning, I think for many of us it starts out like that. Divorce Remedy, right... how to save your marriage! You want to find the answers and turn it around. And turn it around fast.
She already knows that lying to everyone is not okay and that being in the A is not okay. If you want to stand, you set your boundaries and give it time and space.
Not having kids may make it easier but the choice is the same. My W chose to do what she did with kids involved. I don't care if they slowly crawled to that line or rushed and jumped over it, the fact of the matter is the same.
Thank you Adam, and I'm so sorry to hear about your past. I'm sure you're a stronger man for everything that has shaped you so far.
W messaged my siblings today. She and my younger sister are very close, as she's known my sister since she was 4.
In her message she asks if they might meet up with her to hear her side of the story, that she hasn't cheated and would never do such a thing.
I've told my siblings that they have every right to meet her if they'd like, and I wouldn't prevent them from doing so.
My father's 60th is coming up this weekend and will be a big party with many extended family and friends. I'm dreading going as I know there'll be lots of questions. I don't think I'll invite her, as my father says he doesn't want to see her at this stage.
In more positive GAL news. Going to the gym over the past couple of weeks and watching my diet somewhat has resulted in a 2kg weight loss.
My father's 60th is coming up this weekend and will be a big party with many extended family and friends. I'm dreading going as I know there'll be lots of questions. I don't think I'll invite her, as my father says he doesn't want to see her at this stage.
Respect your Father's wishes.
Today a few of my best friends, and groomsmen to our wedding, (and subsequently mutual friends of the W) reached out to me to let me know that the W had texted them to ask if they'd catch up with her.
In the texts she says that I am angry because I think she's been cheating, and that she would never do that.
Other than to try clear her name, I'm not sure what her intentions are. Either way I told each of my friends that they can meet with her if they so choose. It's completely up to them if they are comfortable doing so or not.
Perhaps she's going to try play the victim card? That I was controlling, jealous of her friendships, and kicking her out on unfair grounds?
I wonder how and if she'll explain her booking the trip and keeping that a secret from me, if she mentions it at all.
Today a few of my best friends, and groomsmen to our wedding, (and subsequently mutual friends of the W) reached out to me to let me know that the W had texted them to ask if they'd catch up with her.
In the texts she says that I am angry because I think she's been cheating, and that she would never do that.
Other than to try clear her name, I'm not sure what her intentions are. Either way I told each of my friends that they can meet with her if they so choose. It's completely up to them if they are comfortable doing so or not.
Perhaps she's going to try play the victim card? That I was controlling, jealous of her friendships, and kicking her out on unfair grounds?
I wonder how and if she'll explain her booking the trip and keeping that a secret from me, if she mentions it at all.
Of course she won't explain her booking the trip and keeping it a secret. That isn't what WWs do. They will spin it anyway they can. My W made it seem as if her EA was insignificant. They tell themselves that the marital problems have NOTHING to do with stepping outside of the marriage. "Our marriage was already over." They lie to themselves, and thus to others. So don't expect her to come clean about anything. More than likely this is her rallying campaign to garner support.
However, Kwan, I am sure you would admit you have been far from the perfect H. So don't make it all about her either. While most WWs don't complain until they have found their new Plan A, there is some truth in what they are saying. Affairs typically are the symptom of deeper problems in the MR. So own your own bad behavior in the marriage.
Other than to try clear her name, I'm not sure what her intentions are.
Damage control.
Either way I told each of my friends that they can meet with her if they so choose. It's completely up to them if they are comfortable doing so or not.
I would actually discourage them from talking to her. Just tell them the two of you are having problems and working on things and that you would rather they not intervene. If they choose to, then tell them you do not want to hear about their conversations with her.
Perhaps she's going to try play the victim card? That I was controlling, jealous of her friendships, and kicking her out on unfair grounds?
Probably. It doesn't really change anything though.
Steve, I certainly do think about all the ways I contributed to our MR breakdown. I've identified that I was too much of a nice guy, put her on a pedestal, needed her instead of wanting her, got too comfortable etc. I'm working on identifying these things and applying 180's on them.
Having said that, I've also accepted that the reason she became WW was mostly due to her own personal issues. She's having a full blown existential crisis and our MR is the collateral damage. I think forgiving myself for not being the cause of her actions is helping me heal.
AnotherStander, you're right. Either way what she says doesn't matter. I know the reason for the separation, and I journaled the exact details of how things went down whilst they were still fresh in my mind.
I'll never forget about the blatant lies she told me to my face when I confronted her that night. That's when I truly realised my W was a different person.