Got a typical WW on my hands here guys! Had no idea about *any* of this until within the last month things got bad. Possible A. Got the "I think we should start thinking about D and custody and who is moving out" talk already.. not even a month from our last argument when I found out she might not L me anymore.
Luckily I engulfed myself in books, and now understand what is mostly going on - typical WW with EA and MLC (we are both almost 40, a 6 and 3 year old). Lots of shopping, makeup, hair, going out late etc. It all is pretty cut and dry to me now but holy moly was not a couple weeks ago!
With her pressuring for a D already what are my options? Before I wanted to save the marriage (still do for kids obviously - they are absolutely everything to me) but it is quite clear she wants out.. and fast. Should I tell her she can move out but recommend no Divorce until we are separated for a bit?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Thank Cadet. I have read up on the other posts the last couple of days before posting this - so I am fairly knowledgable so far. I am just wondering what my options are since right off the bat we went from an "OK" marriage (one I had no idea she was this upset .. would never have even imagined D talk!) to wanting a D within weeks of letting me know how unhappy she was. Just wondering if I should try to slow it down or just go with it?
Read everything here. Stop the pursuit. Detach. Focus on yourself. No talking about D. If she brings it up say "I understand you think it would make you happy to D, I dont want that, but I wont stand in your way".
You are in for one hell of a ride. Just follow the rules. The goal is to better yourself. Get to a point where you are emotionally safe.
Read everything here, including all of the posted situations. Good luck. You will live. You will get through this.
svdad,
Sorry you are here, but glad you are <-- That made no sense I bet, however this is where you will find the appropriate sparing from people having lived, what you are right now. The confusion, the questions, the wondering - What you will realize, and maybe you already have begun to, is that the general sitch with a WW is not special. There are SO many parallels you can draw between most of the stories on this board. So what makes every story have a different outcome? i'll tell you:
The LBS does... This is what is so hard to understand, and something that took me many months to comprehend. This is not about your WW, this is about you. The sooner the LBS realizes that this is not about their WW, but about themselves, the sooner they find the right path to walk.
Will this path salvage your relationship? No, this ship has sailed. You need to embark upon a new journey, a journey that evolves around you, and the passengers on your boat are people who wants to be here, because your boat fuchin rocks... You are the captain of the party boat, and you dont want anyone ruining your party.
You seem to have been doing some research already. Keep it up, make this about you.. 180 on the things that you know inside you have to, reflect on your process, go dim / dark depending on kids. Let her live her life the way she wants to, because you can't force anyone to do what they dont want to, and honestly, who wants a relationship like that...
so..
- detach
-180
-GAL
- Whenever you think you have a GREAT idea that you should swing by her, dont.... come here first, present it and take the advice beforehand. Trust me, it will save you from a lot of mental pain because, the idea might not be that great after all when you get the advice from the veteran perspective.
I hope the very best for you... You can be A Man Only A Fool Would Leave, you just have to choose to be.
Do not put her on a piedestal, do not only think about all the great things (we tend to do that). Reflect on what you contributed to in this downfall - complacency? neediness? lack of goals?
I know I might come off as hard, but really, I mean this in the best way possible - learn from my mistakes, and do not make them yourselves. That can be the difference between your story, and lots of the stories in here - the fact, that you choose to be the LBS that shows that you know what you are worth, and that you won't settle with left over cake.
Have the best day man!
Sorry english is not my mothertongue, hope you get the general idea of what I am trying to write at least
/hurt
Got a typical WW on my hands here guys! Had no idea about *any* of this until within the last month things got bad. Possible A. Got the "I think we should start thinking about D and custody and who is moving out" talk already.. not even a month from our last argument when I found out she might not L me anymore.
Luckily I engulfed myself in books, and now understand what is mostly going on - typical WW with EA and MLC (we are both almost 40, a 6 and 3 year old). Lots of shopping, makeup, hair, going out late etc. It all is pretty cut and dry to me now but holy moly was not a couple weeks ago!
With her pressuring for a D already what are my options? Before I wanted to save the marriage (still do for kids obviously - they are absolutely everything to me) but it is quite clear she wants out.. and fast. Should I tell her she can move out but recommend no Divorce until we are separated for a bit?
svdad, a lot of us come here with WWs that are ready to hit the ground running with S and/or D. My WW in the first few weeks after BD was fixing up her resume, doing apartment searches, doing a lot of research on D and the effects on kids. Etc.
Take a deep breath. Step back. I know your mind is racing. You are probably looking for the magic bullet. "Do this and she'll change her mind." Etc. The only thing that works in these sitches are time.
Here is the thing. What is she pressuring for D? Most WW are like upper-management at a Fortune 500 company. They make pronouncements and expect that someone will go do the work for them.
So next time she pressures, have a response like this ready: "I am completely opposed, ethically and morally to divorce. If you want a divorce I can't stop you but I will do nothing to help. I won't hinder it if you insist on divorce, but I won't file, I won't lift a finger in anyway to help with it because it would violate my conscience."
If she wants to sleep alone SHE moves out of the MBR. Not you.
svdad, my W gave up her quest for D pretty quickly after she realized that she was going to be the one to do all of the work. Not all WWs give up that quickly, but since you are still relatively early in your sitch you need to lay the ground work now that she's on her own in this quest. That you are there for her the minute she decides to give it up.
You guys are great. We have been sleeping apart the last 6 years (since our first was born) as she mostly got up with the kids and prefers her own bed anyhow.
I should also add that i started going to my own IC when the BD happened. She was adamant she did not want to go to MC and that she is closed up to me, and there is no way that is changed. She is now 'changed' due to our arguments and how I would attack her character. She remembers everything negative about our relationship. Says we aren't meant to be together, etc.
I said (before reading this forum) that I would agree to D if and only if no stone was left uncovered. IE: we try to fix things (mostly for kids .. I am absolutely terrified for them growing up without a family in tact). She then (reluctantly) agreed to go see my IC but this has not happened yet. In hindsight - I think she is only going to appease me and justify to her that she ticked the box of "trying" before filing the D.
What should I do?
Thanks mates.
Be the BEST DAD that you can be.
You can not control her - you can only control yourself.
DB'ing is counter intuitive, LET GO and become the person only a fool would leave.
I should also add that i started going to my own IC when the BD happened. She was adamant she did not want to go to MC and that she is closed up to me, and there is no way that is changed. She is now 'changed' due to our arguments and how I would attack her character. She remembers everything negative about our relationship. Says we aren't meant to be together, etc.
Typical WW/WH talk. Don't believe anything she says on only half of what she does.
I think she is only going to appease me and justify to her that she ticked the box of "trying" before filing the D.
Yep. So don't try to get her to go. She'll then wonder why you stopped asking her to go and fix this. Then she'll start temp checking and trying to get you back on the hook.
Like Hurt said:
- detach
-180
-GAL
You guys are great. We have been sleeping apart the last 6 years (since our first was born) as she mostly got up with the kids and prefers her own bed anyhow.
I should also add that i started going to my own IC when the BD happened. She was adamant she did not want to go to MC and that she is closed up to me, and there is no way that is changed. She is now 'changed' due to our arguments and how I would attack her character. She remembers everything negative about our relationship. Says we aren't meant to be together, etc.
I said (before reading this forum) that I would agree to D if and only if no stone was left uncovered. IE: we try to fix things (mostly for kids .. I am absolutely terrified for them growing up without a family in tact). She then (reluctantly) agreed to go see my IC but this has not happened yet. In hindsight - I think she is only going to appease me and justify to her that she ticked the box of "trying" before filing the D.
What should I do?
Thanks mates.
Most here will say not to have her go. However, I had a similar experience. She came and my IC became OUR MC. So while she was reluctant at first she eventually embraced it. But your W sounds a lot like mine was at the beginning. All negative, not one day of happiness in 19 years of marriage.
sv, one huge caveat related to my sitch. My W's OM ended their EA about 3 weeks after BD. If your W is in an active EA or PA your mileage may vary, greatly. Most WWs have a fantasy outlook for their new life with OM. No matter how rooted in delusion that fantasy is, it is their reality at the moment. Personally, I'd leave it open to her but do not pressure her at all. Just say "I am leaving for IC at X time, you are free to join me."
We have been sleeping apart the last 6 years (since our first was born)
How was/is the sex life with this arrangement?
We have been sleeping apart the last 6 years (since our first was born)
How was/is the sex life with this arrangement?
Less than average I would assume - but it was there (sort of
... )
So next time she pressures, have a response like this ready: "I am completely opposed, ethically and morally to divorce. If you want a divorce I can't stop you but I will do nothing to help. I won't hinder it if you insist on divorce, but I won't file, I won't lift a finger in anyway to help with it because it would violate my conscience."
.
Thanks guys.. this evening she made contact with me in our house (first non kid communication if quite a bit) and asked if she could borrow my book I mentioned a couple of weeks ago (7 principles for making a marriage work).. it completely took me off guard, i took a deep breath, realized this is all more of her plot to either a) make her self feel better about being how she is and or b) just a ploy to make it look like she is 'trying all things' before filing for D. I said basically that I think she should go out research, and get her own books that suit her. No need to take my advice, or read what I am reading. She definitely was shocked. I then proceeded to say or more or less words the above that Steve85 said. I told her no need to go to my IC if she was not going for the right reasons. And that I am not going to step in her way of D - but I am totally against it but i won't fight her anymore about it - if this is what she wants go for it! But I am not helping her.
I did say that she needs to understand that my kids are my absolute world, and that I am going to have a hard time not seeing them... to which she said "so are you going to fight me for custody?!" I told her that is not what I am saying, I have not thought about that yet - but just telling her how I feel about the kids and what she is doing to them.
I really do feel good. I am actually detached now. You guys are right she is not the woman I married years ago and had 2 kids with at this point in her life. I ended it saying all I can do is be the best dad i can be and that is what I am going to do and then walked away.
Any comments on this?
Less than average I would assume - but it was there (sort of
... )
Only you know if your needs were getting met or not. Sound like not.
since right off the bat we went from an "OK" marriage (one I had no idea she was this upset .. would never have even imagined D talk!) to wanting a D within weeks of letting me know how unhappy she was.
Any changes to your sex life prior to BD initiated by her? If so, that may be a red flag of possible OM.
Tarzan never lets go of his vine until he has a good grip on the next one.
Most people are the same way. They don't drop the first lover until they have a new one. You may be unique.
Less than average I would assume - but it was there (sort of
... )
Only you know if your needs were getting met or not. Sound like not.
Any changes to your sex life prior to BD initiated by her? If so, that may be a red flag of possible OM.
Tarzan never lets go of his vine until he has a good grip on the next one.
Most people are the same way. They don't drop the first lover until they have a new one. You may be unique.
There is def. OM. Not sure if P or not at this point, and honestly to me I don't care one bit to know.
I did say that she needs to understand that my kids are my absolute world, and that I am going to have a hard time not seeing them... to which she said "so are you going to fight me for custody?!" I told her that is not what I am saying, I have not thought about that yet - but just telling her how I feel about the kids and what she is doing to them.
Learn not to talk so much.
W:"so are you going to fight me for custody?!"
H:"I have no intention of fight you for custody. My understanding is that the kids need both their parents equally in their lives to grow up healthy. Which parenting plan sounds better to you, "week on/week off" or a 2/3/3/2 arrangement?"
W:"Bla bla bla bbla @$$hole Bla bla you can't take my kids away....blaa blaa bla"
H:"Sorry you feel that way. If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, I will not stand in your way, but joint custody arrangements is best for the kids, and I will do whatever is best for my kids, with or without you."
W:'Bla bla bla bla bla"
Sorry, I missed that.
Not sure if P or not at this point, and honestly to me I don't care one bit to know.
Most find it better not to know.
The biggest mistakes most make are either no action or responding to things the wrong way.
Almost everything is predictable. Read as much as you can here. You have got to get way ahead of your W in this process. She has a big head start.
I did say that she needs to understand that my kids are my absolute world, and that I am going to have a hard time not seeing them... to which she said "so are you going to fight me for custody?!" I told her that is not what I am saying, I have not thought about that yet - but just telling her how I feel about the kids and what she is doing to them.
Learn not to talk so much.
W:"so are you going to fight me for custody?!"
H:"I have no intention of fight you for custody. My understanding is that the kids need both their parents equally in their lives to grow up healthy. Which parenting plan sounds better to you, "week on/week off" or a 2/3/3/2 arrangement?"
W:"Bla bla bla bbla @$$hole Bla bla you can't take my kids away....blaa blaa bla"
H:"Sorry you feel that way. If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, I will not stand in your way, but joint custody arrangements is best for the kids, and I will do whatever is best for my kids, with or without you."
W:'Bla bla bla bla bla"
I think she is proposing 50/50. But honestly I am having a hard time imagining not seeing my kids everyday. I am one of those dads who cant go a day without playing with each kid. I actually get frustrated if I am at work late and dont have time to see them.
But I see what you are saying, thank you for the advice.
So next time she pressures, have a response like this ready: "I am completely opposed, ethically and morally to divorce. If you want a divorce I can't stop you but I will do nothing to help. I won't hinder it if you insist on divorce, but I won't file, I won't lift a finger in anyway to help with it because it would violate my conscience."
.
Thanks guys.. this evening she made contact with me in our house (first non kid communication if quite a bit) and asked if she could borrow my book I mentioned a couple of weeks ago (7 principles for making a marriage work).. it completely took me off guard, i took a deep breath, realized this is all more of her plot to either a) make her self feel better about being how she is and or b) just a ploy to make it look like she is 'trying all things' before filing for D. I said basically that I think she should go out research, and get her own books that suit her. No need to take my advice, or read what I am reading. She definitely was shocked. I then proceeded to say or more or less words the above that Steve85 said. I told her no need to go to my IC if she was not going for the right reasons. And that I am not going to step in her way of D - but I am totally against it but i won't fight her anymore about it - if this is what she wants go for it! But I am not helping her.
I did say that she needs to understand that my kids are my absolute world, and that I am going to have a hard time not seeing them... to which she said "so are you going to fight me for custody?!" I told her that is not what I am saying, I have not thought about that yet - but just telling her how I feel about the kids and what she is doing to them.
I really do feel good. I am actually detached now. You guys are right she is not the woman I married years ago and had 2 kids with at this point in her life. I ended it saying all I can do is be the best dad i can be and that is what I am going to do and then walked away.
Any comments on this?
Pretty good. Couple of things.
When you say these things try to be matter of fact. Emotionless. Don't say it happy, sad, angry, etc. Just say it.
Read R2C's comments on how to approach the custody question.
"I am actually detached now."
Whoa, slowdown horsey! Detachment isn't something you check off a list. It is an ongoing, day-to-day battle within yourself. You are riding a high after feeling empowered with this recent interaction. And you should! You did well. Can you improve? Yes. But you did well. But be prepared for the crash. Read other people's sitches here. One day they are "I am doing it! I am over her! I am detaching!" The next day "I miss her, I don't want to lose, my life will suck without her!" The rollercoaster is real. Avoid thinking you are out of the woods. Avoid thinking everything is dire. Try to float, as much as possible, in the middle. And by all means DO NOT let it inform your next words and actions. Those that struggle the most are those that are most impulsive. Read sandi's rules, study them, know them. You can ruin weeks and months of progress with one impulsive action or word. Don't be that guy.
thanks Steve, dully noted. appreciated. wise words!
this evening she made contact with me in our house (first non kid communication if quite a bit) and asked if she could borrow my book I mentioned a couple of weeks ago (7 principles for making a marriage work).. it completely took me off guard, i took a deep breath, realized this is all more of her plot to either a) make her self feel better about being how she is and or b) just a ploy to make it look like she is 'trying all things' before filing for D. I said basically that I think she should go out research, and get her own books that suit her. No need to take my advice, or read what I am reading. She definitely was shocked. I then proceeded to say or more or less words the above that Steve85 said. I told her no need to go to my IC if she was not going for the right reasons. And that I am not going to step in her way of D - but I am totally against it but i won't fight her anymore about it - if this is what she wants go for it! But I am not helping her.
Careful with all of this. It sounds like a lot of talking to kind of 'show off' the things youve learned here. Its going to come off as jarring and sudden and more like a "trick" than a sincere change of heart. She asked to borrow a book and you launched into your feelings on divorce - seems a little strange. To me, if she wants to read the book, then just say "sure" or "Im reading through it now, but you can borrow it when Im finished." Why try to
control what shes reading?
I did say that she needs to understand that my kids are my absolute world, and that I am going to have a hard time not seeing them... to which she said "so are you going to fight me for custody?!" I told her that is not what I am saying, I have not thought about that yet - but just telling her how I feel about the kids and what she is doing to them.
So what exactly was the point of this interaction? To make her feel guilty? I promise this wasnt
attractive[/b[ behavior. Next time, think actions instead of words. How can you [b]show that kids are "your world"? rather than just saying it?
Also, think about that last line. This isnt just what "she" is doing to your kids. What have you contributed to the breakdown of your marriage? Placing this kind of blame on her isnt going to brig you two any closer.
I am actually detached now.
Have you been reading up on detachment? It isnt really a light switch you just flip on or off. Its a process. Read up on what it means and what it DOESNT mean. Keep practicing. And keep posting!
Careful with all of this. It sounds like a lot of talking to kind of 'show off' the things youve learned here. Its going to come off as jarring and sudden and more like a "trick" than a sincere change of heart. She asked to borrow a book and you launched into your feelings on divorce - seems a little strange. To me, if she wants to read the book, then just say "sure" or "Im reading through it now, but you can borrow it when Im finished." Why try to control what shes reading?
Noted. The backstory is that I asked her to go to MC or at least see my IC before I would agree to D. Now I am realizing I should not push her for anything, and let her go her own path. To me, this also means letting her find her own books to read *if* she really wants to read them for the right reasons. I fear this is a ploy of her to just tick the box that says 'read marriage books, didnt work for me'.
So what exactly was the point of this interaction? To make her feel guilty? I promise this wasnt attractive[/b[ behavior. Next time, think actions instead of words. How can you [b]show that kids are "your world"? rather than just saying it?
Also, think about that last line. This isnt just what "she" is doing to your kids. What have you contributed to the breakdown of your marriage? Placing this kind of blame on her isnt going to brig you two any closer.
Good point. I think I am to the point I am not trying to get any closer. I am working on myself and setting up a future for my children and I the best I can. I have no effort left to work on her/our failing R. It's up to her to decide her own path and right now that path does not appear to include me. I can't change that and I am accepting of that (finally).
I am actually detached now.
Have you been reading up on detachment? It isnt really a light switch you just flip on or off. Its a process. Read up on what it means and what it DOESNT mean. Keep practicing. And keep posting!
I guess what I should have said is that I am finally starting the detachment process - *and* feeling good about it. It sure is a weight off your back when you get the right knowledge and have the right game plan for *your* own life. Change the things you can, accept the things you can not - etc.
I think I am to the point I am not trying to get any closer.
The relation ship is broken. Only you have the power to fix it. Your job is to not push her away , but rather attract her back.
Unless you are not trying to save the marriage.
I think I am to the point I am not trying to get any closer.
The relation ship is broken. Only you have the power to fix it. Your job is to not push her away , but rather attract her back.
Unless you are not trying to save the marriage.
Obviously best case scenario is she finds herself, gets through this MLC and A (if she is having one), wakes up, and works on our relationship and we end up better than ever. Honestly - I think while possible is slim at this point since she is full on wanting divorce so fast. I am focusing my efforts on me, and my future with my kids.
I think I am to the point I am not trying to get any closer.
The relation ship is broken. Only you have the power to fix it. Your job is to not push her away , but rather attract her back.
Unless you are not trying to save the marriage.
Obviously best case scenario is she finds herself, gets through this MLC and A (if she is having one), wakes up, and works on our relationship and we end up better than ever. Honestly - I think while possible is slim at this point since she is full on wanting divorce so fast. I am focusing my efforts on me, and my future with my kids.
Yeah I thought that too. In the beginning. R2C is trying to tell you to STOP focusing on her. If SHE wakes up. If HER MLC ends. If HER A ends. If SHE is willing to work on the relationship. BLAH BLAH BLAH
Where are the I and me statements. You can only control one person on this ball of carbon......and she ain't it.
Right on Stevie! This is why I said originally "I think I am to the point I am not trying to get any closer." There is your "I" statement
For real, I hear you guys. Totally appreciate your comments! I think we are all in agreement here - perhaps words were misunderstood.
I guess I do have a direct question - should I be meeting with some D ATTY at this point to get ahead? I definitely want to keep this house... its a perfect house for the kids and it does not make sense to sell it (own versus worth is not a lot diff at this point). She has mentioned she 'does not want me money and just wants to have a friendly D and what is best for the kids..." .... I have enough to buy her out of the worth of this house and also able to pay for the current mortgage on my own (do it already) but I am not looking forward to refi since right now I have a great rate. What are my options here?
Thanks!
See a L for a consultation
Educate yourself about the process
This is just for you
Not to educate your spouse
Do not let her know you went
Just want to echo what others have said
You are still early in your journey
Your feelings will change over time
No idea what will happen
So just focus on you and kids
I got that speech three years ago
I am still married
See a L for a consultation
Educate yourself about the process
This is just for you
Not to educate your spouse
Do not let her know you went
Just want to echo what others have said
You are still early in your journey
Your feelings will change over time
No idea what will happen
So just focus on you and kids
I got that speech three years ago
I am still married
Thanks Gordie. 3 years ago eh? wow. My W is ummm what you might say 'strong willed'. When she makes up her mind she more or less does not go back/change it. I would be surprised if this sitch lasts 3 months (including the current 1 month since BD).
Got another question for you educated fellas: If W is leaving town for the weekend to go back to her home town, which is about 5.5 hours away (where the suspected OM is) what is the game plan? Do you still pretend like you have no idea about OM / EA / PA? As it stands I don't plan on even saying anything (at all) to her.
My w is as strong willed as they come
She said she wanted a d
And to marry OM
She pursued it
She filed
We negotiated an agreement
Then she changed her mind
Be open to the fact that you do not know the future
Also even if ww wants a divorce tomorrow
Lawyers and courts have a way of slowing things down
At least months and sometimes years depending on complexity
The consultation with your L will enlighten you
My w is as strong willed as they come
She said she wanted a d
And to marry OM
She pursued it
She filed
We negotiated an agreement
Then she changed her mind
Be open to the fact that you do not know the future
Wow! it's true I am all green to this stuff but that is amazing to me. Had no idea stuff like that happens.
Curious - how is the R now?
Also even if ww wants a divorce tomorrow
Lawyers and courts have a way of slowing things down
At least months and sometimes years depending on complexity
The consultation with your L will enlighten you
She has made it known she wants to go the mediator route. Not sure how much that changes things time wise - all i have researched so far is that it is cheaper and preferred if H and W are willing to work together peacefully to settle this?
When your w says what she wants
Let’s use a mediator
Let’s get this done quickly
All you have to do is listen
Say thank you sharing your thoughts with me
That’s it
And if she says do you agree
Or what do you think
Say this is a lot for me to think about
I am not an expert on divorce
So I need to think about it
Then stop talking
She will not like anything that is less than full agreement with her plan
Not your problem
Time is on your side
If you want to know about my R now
Read my thread
It is a very long story
We will stick to your story on your thread
See a L for a consultation
Educate yourself about the process
This is just for you
Not to educate your spouse
Do not let her know you went
Just want to echo what others have said
You are still early in your journey
Your feelings will change over time
No idea what will happen
So just focus on you and kids
I got that speech three years ago
I am still married
Thanks Gordie. 3 years ago eh? wow. My W is ummm what you might say 'strong willed'. When she makes up her mind she more or less does not go back/change it. I would be surprised if this sitch lasts 3 months (including the current 1 month since BD).
Yea, they are all gung ho at first. Some people add more pressure and some people give space. And the old saying is to believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. Plenty of people recon after divorce too.
sv, my wife also said she didn't want my money. She also said she wanted me to keep the house. I eventually told her we were splitting everything 50/50. Money. Retirement funds. Selling house and splitting equity. I told her this was only fair.
WWs in particular try to ease their own conscience. Not wanting the H's money is one of the ways they do that. Don't be greedy, even in mediation insist she get her fair share. Sometimes a little guilt will jar them out of their fog.
I guess I do have a direct question - should I be meeting with some D ATTY at this point to get ahead?
Yes, knowledge is power.
She has mentioned she 'does not want me money and just wants to have a friendly D and what is best for the kids..."
Yes my ex told me much the same. Then we negotiated a very fair (to both of us) settlement and she had it drawn up. Then in the 11th hour when it was ready for her signature she decided I owed her much, much more. Don't believe anything until her signature is on the paper and it's in your hands. A WAS can turn on a dime, whether that means deciding they want to recon or deciding they want to screw you over. Be ready for anything.
.... I have enough to buy her out of the worth of this house and also able to pay for the current mortgage on my own (do it already) but I am not looking forward to refi since right now I have a great rate. What are my options here?
You don't have options, a refi is the only way to get her name off of it.
I have enough to buy her out of the worth of this house and also able to pay for the current mortgage on my own (do it already) but I am not looking forward to refi since right now I have a great rate. What are my options here?
If you have a FHA, VA, or USDA loan, you can assume the loan. You keep all the terms of the loan, you just have to pay the assumption fee. Otherwise your only option is to refi to get her off the loan.
Argh. Nothing like being sick and in bed at one of your lowest points in life, is there?
No real status change. I am wondering if I should be asking her to move out? Although even though we currently aren't speaking in the house together, we are normal around the kids and so far besides my 6yr old asking "Why doesn't Mom want to be around us" now several times they seem unaffected.
Argh. Nothing like being sick and in bed at one of your lowest points in life, is there?
No real status change. I am wondering if I should be asking her to move out? Although even though we currently aren't speaking in the house together, we are normal around the kids and so far besides my 6yr old asking "Why doesn't Mom want to be around us" now several times they seem unaffected.
Last year in the thick of my sitch I got sicker than I ever have in my life. I might get a cold every couple of years. But last year, first I got the flu. Then it turned into an upper-respiratory infections with lung inflammation. Then it turned into bronchitis with lung inflammation. That was over the course of 3 months. The cough lasted into May! When you are stressed, and not eating the way you should, not sleeping the way you should, your immune system slows to a crawl.
Last year in the thick of my sitch I got sicker than I ever have in my life. I might get a cold every couple of years. But last year, first I got the flu. Then it turned into an upper-respiratory infections with lung inflammation. Then it turned into bronchitis with lung inflammation. That was over the course of 3 months. The cough lasted into May! When you are stressed, and not eating the way you should, not sleeping the way you should, your immune system slows to a crawl.
I tend to get sick in the winter every year it seems, but this was in-bed-cant-move for 3-4 days straight. I am hoping it isnt turning into anything else.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
I didn't get D'd, but I contacted an attorney. D is a legal proceeding. Going through that without a lawyer is not advisable. WASs/WSs want the path of least resistance, which is a mediator in their mind. Note, if she is wayward she probably will eventually give up on mediation. A lot of mediators advise to try to R. Waywards don't like to hear that.
I think it is best to contact an attorney to at least understand your rights.
Then I think the answer depends a lot on your situation. How much do you agree on with respect to custody? splitting of assets? child support? alimony? etc.
If you basically agree on the major points, then you dont really NEED a lawyer. But it certainly isnt a bad thing having someone who is looking over the deal to make sure you arent getting screwed.
First, Get legal advise to know what your rights are.
Second, get financial advise. Understand the tax implications of splitting assets. Understand the "real value" of different assets.
Third always have "time to think" before agreeing to things.
I was involved in a highly contested custody battle with two divorce attorneys. Financially and emotionally devastating for the family.
H atterny $400/hr
W atterny $300/hr (Guessing)
Paying $700/hour to argue is crazy. But I had to lawyer up to play the game.
After D, we had a mediation session WITH THE LAWYERS. This was also crazy. Only reason I settled during this was "Pro se" was written into the agreement. IE No more lawyers. I pay a bit more in child support.
Going into mediation prepared is good. What are you disagreeing about?
Thanks Steve. Do you still get a L if you are using a mediator? I really am confused here obviously... is that what you are saying?
I think it is best to contact an attorney to at least understand your rights.
Then I think the answer depends a lot on your situation. How much do you agree on with respect to custody? splitting of assets? child support? alimony? etc.
If you basically agree on the major points, then you dont really NEED a lawyer. But it certainly isnt a bad thing having someone who is looking over the deal to make sure you arent getting screwed.
We have not even begun the talk yet.. but she stresses mediator and amicable ... joint custody. have not talked about child support... would love to hear opinions / thoughts on this though!
Thanks Steve. Do you still get a L if you are using a mediator? I really am confused here obviously... is that what you are saying?
I would at a minimum have a free consultation with a lawyer. That is what I did. If my sitch had continued in that direction then I would have secured his services.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2835549#Post2835549Separate the divorce into different buckets.
1) Emotional-detach-set her free- no R talk
2) Parenting plan / parenting arrangement 50/50 no more no less.
3) Financial - Current assets
4) Financial - Child support (there are standard formulas)
5) other buckets as needed
Two lawyers in an adversarial fight will be very expensive and financially devistating for the family. This should be your last resort for things you can't agree on.
One lawyer to help mediate is better. If needed, ask W to recommend 3 and you will pick one.
Before that, You should do mediation. Same thing, have W recommend 3 and you pick one.
Before that, get written agreements on things you do agree on.
There is a thing called a balance sheet. Your stuff/ her stuff with the values. Some place on it you equalize.
Simple example: You only have two cars. W drives one. you drive one.
Option 1)
You keep one she keeps one. You both agree. Financial done.
Both agree to this in divorce paperwork. All done.
Option 2)
Someone thinks one car is 2X more valuable than the other. You both agree. You keep one she keeps one. The person keeping the more valuable car gets 50% of the difference in cash from the other to "equalize".
Both agree to this in divorce paperwork. One person writes the other a check. Check clears. All done.
Option 3)
There is a disagreement about the values of the cars.
One person assigns the value. The other picks if they want the car or the value.
Option 4) mediation.
Option 5) 1 lawyer
Option 6) 2 lawyers
Option 7) Ordered by a judge at hearing.
You both can have lawyers available for legal advise during this process, Just be aware they are in the game for your money.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
I tried to use a mediator, W refused bc she said that she thought the mediatr was a therapist. SMH... so now we use lawyers... I got my lawyer for a flat fee she's a family friend.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
I tried to use a mediator, W refused bc she said that she thought the mediatr was a therapist. SMH... so now we use lawyers... I got my lawyer for a flat fee she's a family friend.
This is exactly what I was alluding too! Some WWs don't like be asking about reconciliation by a mediator. So they pull the plug on mediation and hire a lawyer. Or just don't move forward on D at all.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
I tried to use a mediator, W refused bc she said that she thought the mediatr was a therapist. SMH... so now we use lawyers... I got my lawyer for a flat fee she's a family friend.
This is exactly what I was alluding too! Some WWs don't like be asking about reconciliation by a mediator. So they pull the plug on mediation and hire a lawyer. Or just don't move forward on D at all.
Well, I guess in my case i have that going for me - since *she* is the one who is recommending a mediator.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
I tried to use a mediator, W refused bc she said that she thought the mediatr was a therapist. SMH... so now we use lawyers... I got my lawyer for a flat fee she's a family friend.
This is exactly what I was alluding too! Some WWs don't like be asking about reconciliation by a mediator. So they pull the plug on mediation and hire a lawyer. Or just don't move forward on D at all.
Well, I guess in my case i have that going for me - since *she* is the one who is recommending a mediator.
For now.
Question: Who here used a mediator and who here used a Divorce Attorney? Would anyone care to share any experiences, good and bad? I am trying to learn more about this procedure (and knowing WW wants mediator route).
thanks.
XW initially had an attorney, but I suggested a mediator because we both didn't want to blow this up and cause a lot of financial heartache, we didn't want the gov't in our business, and I wanted what would be the best outcome for my kids. XW found a mediator who was also an attorney. It went fairly smooth and we resolved everything in one sitdown meeting. XW and I pregamed what we wanted, but the mediator/lawyer had better alternatives that worked for us. Just a note for caution our deal was 50/50 and a fair deal on both parties. Even though XW agreed and was happy with the decision at the time, she was/is still a WW and feels resentful. Even though she filed the D and it was her final say so, she feels like she got the raw deal and I came out ahead. Go figure.
Mediation is good because it shows that both parties want to be amicable, it saves money, and it removed any drama that opposing lawyers bring to increase their payout.
[Mediation is good because it shows that both parties want to be amicable, it saves money, and it removed any drama that opposing lawyers bring to increase their payout.
^^^^^^^^ Everything is a calculation. Makes zero sense to go to court. Keep all the money in your pocket that you can because you are going to need it.
XW initially had an attorney, but I suggested a mediator because we both didn't want to blow this up and cause a lot of financial heartache, we didn't want the gov't in our business, and I wanted what would be the best outcome for my kids. XW found a mediator who was also an attorney. It went fairly smooth and we resolved everything in one sitdown meeting. XW and I pregamed what we wanted, but the mediator/lawyer had better alternatives that worked for us. Just a note for caution our deal was 50/50 and a fair deal on both parties. Even though XW agreed and was happy with the decision at the time, she was/is still a WW and feels resentful. Even though she filed the D and it was her final say so, she feels like she got the raw deal and I came out ahead. Go figure.
.
Wait, 50/50 [financials/custody, etc was a better alternative? Do you care to share? And what!? - She feels like 50/50 is a raw deal? Do WW expect more than 50/50 (again - I am super new to this and just trying to absorb all this info - thanks to all that have responded!)
Everything was 50/50, but there are different routes to get there. For example I got to keep our house and I never thought that was possible.
Yes at the end she thought she got a raw deal even though she got everything she wanted. A part of this was her WW mentality and a part of this was her glass is half empty mentality. She has bad GiGS.
I haven't read up on your sitch but word of advice, go to an IC, learn to meditate, go back to church, hit the gym, do yoga. Mind, body, spirit. It's not about her anymore, it's about taking care of yourself and your kids.
Still sick. Horrible. D(3) fever at night at as well.
Super hard to GAL when you have been in bed for a week now.
Tell me something good.
Still sick. Horrible. D(3) fever at night at as well.
Super hard to GAL when you have been in bed for a week now.
Tell me something good.
Take care of yourself and D first, GAL will be there when you are well. In the mean time grab a book, something that interests you. Listen to music, watch a movie you havent seen in a while.
While you have some down time you could plan GAL activities, skiing, white water rafting, climbing. You got this slow and steady.
Yes at the end she thought she got a raw deal even though she got everything she wanted. A part of this was her WW mentality and a part of this was her glass is half empty mentality.
Yup, same with my XW. I just mentioned this in another thread but she hired a L, drew up the agreement, we sat down and redmarked it, she had the L revise it and gave it to me to sign, I signed it and gave it back to her and THEN she decided it wasn't fair and she wanted me to pay her a bunch more money. When I asked her to explain why and how she came up with the amount, she flew off the handle and said "we'll just let the lawyers battle it out in court, and I promise you'll regret it." It was one of those many WTF moments I went through with this crazy woman that only looks like my old wife. Rather than subject myself to a court battle that would have cut 5 or 10 years off my life and ejected what's left of my hair I just gave it to her to bring things to a quick conclusion, and I don't regret it one bit. But yes, she too still thinks she got a raw deal.
Well the weather country-wide is pretty lousy so you haven't missed much!
Still sick. Horrible. D(3) fever at night at as well.
Super hard to GAL when you have been in bed for a week now.
Tell me something good.
Take care of yourself and D first, GAL will be there when you are well. In the mean time grab a book, something that interests you. Listen to music, watch a movie you havent seen in a while.
While you have some down time you could plan GAL activities, skiing, white water rafting, climbing. You got this slow and steady.
Thanks mate
Yes at the end she thought she got a raw deal even though she got everything she wanted. A part of this was her WW mentality and a part of this was her glass is half empty mentality.
Yup, same with my XW. I just mentioned this in another thread but she hired a L, drew up the agreement, we sat down and redmarked it, she had the L revise it and gave it to me to sign, I signed it and gave it back to her and THEN she decided it wasn't fair and she wanted me to pay her a bunch more money. When I asked her to explain why and how she came up with the amount, she flew off the handle and said "we'll just let the lawyers battle it out in court, and I promise you'll regret it." It was one of those many WTF moments I went through with this crazy woman that only looks like my old wife. Rather than subject myself to a court battle that would have cut 5 or 10 years off my life and ejected what's left of my hair I just gave it to her to bring things to a quick conclusion, and I don't regret it one bit. But yes, she too still thinks she got a raw deal.
Well the weather country-wide is pretty lousy so you haven't missed much!
Thanks... this resonates with me already 'It was one of those many WTF moments I went through with this crazy woman that only looks like my old wife." .... Too many times I have just shook my head to myself in complete aww at the situation I am in and the different person she has become. It's really unbelievable - but hearing your guy's stories makes it help.....
As for the weather - freezing rain, wind, polar vortex, snow, 60s, we have had it all....
Svdad,
The change can be alarming. We had gone out to brunch, explored the city, went to a wine event. Hand in hand, fingers interlocked saying ILY all day. We made love that day as well. Then we had a good begining of the week together, I was oot and got the call Friday. I came home and I literally did not recognize the woman in front of me. I think the shock of it all blew me away and I fell apart and did all the things you aren't supposed to do (cry, plead, reason, etc).
I come from a hard science educational background and I am very inquisitive. However, no matter how I wrap my head around it I am not coming up with any real answers. Just circular thinking and mental frustration. So I sit here going WTF happened... she figuratively died in front of me.
Some people saw it coming and some were blindsided. Just know you are not alone.
Svdad,
The change can be alarming. We had gone out to brunch, explored the city, went to a wine event. Hand in hand, fingers interlocked saying ILY all day. We made love that day as well. Then we had a good begining of the week together, I was oot and got the call Friday. I came home and I literally did not recognize the woman in front of me. I think the shock of it all blew me away and I fell apart and did all the things you aren't supposed to do (cry, plead, reason, etc).
I come from a hard science educational background and I am very inquisitive. However, no matter how I wrap my head around it I am not coming up with any real answers. Just circular thinking and mental frustration. So I sit here going WTF happened... she figuratively died in front of me.
Some people saw it coming and some were blindsided. Just know you are not alone.
Rough. That is rough. Your words speak volumes to me. I am a binary guy. I am just not understanding how one goes from 0 to 1 just like that.
Svdad,
The change can be alarming. We had gone out to brunch, explored the city, went to a wine event. Hand in hand, fingers interlocked saying ILY all day. We made love that day as well. Then we had a good begining of the week together, I was oot and got the call Friday. I came home and I literally did not recognize the woman in front of me. I think the shock of it all blew me away and I fell apart and did all the things you aren't supposed to do (cry, plead, reason, etc).
I come from a hard science educational background and I am very inquisitive. However, no matter how I wrap my head around it I am not coming up with any real answers. Just circular thinking and mental frustration. So I sit here going WTF happened... she figuratively died in front of me.
Some people saw it coming and some were blindsided. Just know you are not alone.
Rough. That is rough. Your words speak volumes to me. I am a binary guy. I am just not understanding how one goes from 0 to 1 just like that.
sv, I tend to be a binary guy too. However, what I've found is the world rarely falls cleanly into that worldview. In IC my eyes opened to the fact that binary is too narrow to view the world.
I am not trying to see the world as binary - but rather just trying to wrap my head around the neurons or what it is that changes so suddenly in these women. In my case it was more than likely 2 weeks max. In Twofeet's case it sounds like a matter of days. It's just so shocking to me. I cant.wrap.brain.around.it.
I am not trying to see the world as binary - but rather just trying to wrap my head around the neurons or what it is that changes so suddenly in these women. In my case it was more than likely 2 weeks max. In Twofeet's case it sounds like a matter of days. It's just so shocking to me. I cant.wrap.brain.around.it.
This doesnt have to be that complicated, our W's fired us as their H's... its that simple. Follow DBing, this is an incredible site that saves you from beating yourself up on the daily. It works.
Yes they change rapidly, would it have been better if she treated you like crap over the course of several years... soon you will be thanking her for doing this.
...what it is that changes so suddenly in these women.... I cant.wrap.brain.around.it.
The woman didn't change. Your awareness changed.
...what it is that changes so suddenly in these women.... I cant.wrap.brain.around.it.
The woman didn't change. Your awareness changed.
That's definitely true to a point!
SV hope you are feeling a bit better and getting over the sickness that has kept you and your D down.
Understanding the how's and whys is something i see on almost every thread on this site. I am no expert, but I don't see a ton of definitive answers. I know I don't have any in my sitch. I too am a scientific guy that likes to figure out the why answers to better understand and prevent negative outcomes in the future. This site preaches as do many books and other sites that you must work on yourself. That is very difficult for someone that is looking for reasons this happened outside of oneself. Look inside and find those things that you can change to improve yourself. I spent a lot of time reading about things I thought were wrong with her. It did nothing to help me dig out.
I too am still very unsure about this whole process, other than the lawyers are out to take all of your money. My W would email her L to inform me via my L that she wanted to hire a plumber to unclog the sink. $200 to the plumber, $900 to the lawyer. I am currently proposing to her that we should be mature enough to negotiate and communicate stuff like this and finances without the L because it's just wasting our money and destroying our savings in a hurry. She is neither for it not against it, but is considering it. I will not push the issue, but will not do anything financially to help her until she is willing to talk and negotiate without demands on me. Educate yourself and decide what mountains you will die on and what you will give ground on.
The stuff posted by R2C is good stuff! Thanks for posting that!
SV hope you are feeling a bit better and getting over the sickness that has kept you and your D down.
Still down and out. It's brutal - but thanks for asking.... appreciated!
I too am still very unsure about this whole process, other than the lawyers are out to take all of your money. My W would email her L to inform me via my L that she wanted to hire a plumber to unclog the sink. $200 to the plumber, $900 to the lawyer.
What. Wow. That is not going to fly with me. As of now there has not been L talk (yet) but I am going to try my best not to let it get to that point. LB - i feel for you. I believe you did the right thing - yes it should not have to come to that!.
SV hope you are feeling a bit better and getting over the sickness that has kept you and your D down.
Still down and out. It's brutal - but thanks for asking.... appreciated!
I too am still very unsure about this whole process, other than the lawyers are out to take all of your money. My W would email her L to inform me via my L that she wanted to hire a plumber to unclog the sink. $200 to the plumber, $900 to the lawyer.
What. Wow. That is not going to fly with me. As of now there has not been L talk (yet) but I am going to try my best not to let it get to that point. LB - i feel for you. I believe you did the right thing - yes it should not have to come to that!.
Too bad, that's always tough to be laid up with the sickness like that! Keep fighting, it will break soon.
Yes the L adds up in a hurry. I bet we are $15k into it or more, not sure what her bill is. I will just leave my invite out there and she can put her pants on and meet to discuss finances or she can maintain status quo. I don't know how people less fortunate financially can do this.
Finally woke up yesterday and didnt have the imminent feeling I was going to die today. Think (and pray) this sickness is working it's way out.
Finally woke up yesterday and didnt have the imminent feeling I was going to die today. Think (and pray) this sickness is working it's way out.
sv, just be aware every day is different. During my sitch I would wake up one morning feeling like I was ready to move on with my life without her. The next I woke up feeling like my life was over. The roller-coaster ride is real.
...what it is that changes so suddenly in these women.... I cant.wrap.brain.around.it.
The woman didn't change. Your awareness changed.
That's definitely true to a point!
What makes you think anything was sudden? In most of these cases, the hurt and rejection that the WS has felt for many years finally culminates in a decision to walkaway....or to start an affair. Its just that you havent noticed it until it's reached this point. Ive posted that to me, it feels like a lake freezing upward - over the years, the water is turning to ice, but you dont notice it until that top layer changes....at that point, the whole lake is solid, but you may have only just noticed the change because it was all under the surface.
WW asked me tonight if we could talk. I said sure. She said are we ready to go mediator route, no L's? I said sure, do whatever you have to do. Draw it up.
She then asked if I had anything else to say, to which I replied 'nope'.
She got up and left.
WW asked me tonight if we could talk. I said sure. She said are we ready to go mediator route, no L's? I said sure, do whatever you have to do. Draw it up.
She then asked if I had anything else to say, to which I replied 'nope'.
She got up and left.
Good job of removing the pressure. Now don't be surprised if she doesn't do a thing about it! Try to avoid asking her about it.
WW asked me tonight if we could talk. I said sure. She said are we ready to go mediator route, no L's? I said sure, do whatever you have to do. Draw it up.
She then asked if I had anything else to say, to which I replied 'nope'.
She got up and left.
Good job of removing the pressure. Now don't be surprised if she doesn't do a thing about it! Try to avoid asking her about it.
I guess Im a little confused. Are you planning to go through with mediation? My understanding is that the process requires both parties to come to the table and discuss and agree on terms. If thats not what youre planning, then why agree to it? Is there anything you need to fight for?
I guess Im a little confused. Are you planning to go through with mediation? My understanding is that the process requires both parties to come to the table and discuss and agree on terms. If thats not what youre planning, then why agree to it? Is there anything you need to fight for?
I am not going to stop her for what she believes is best - but I also don't plan on helping her file and get the ball rolling. (She is in this crazy WW state of mind and ideally wakes up from fog before she tears the family apart -- but I understand that is not realistic at this point). From what she has said (she doesnt want my money, kids will be 50/50, etc) mediator route is easiest/fastest in her mind. I definitely don't want a long financial battle, and she def does not either.
But the specifics of who is moving out, how we are dealing with kids after school/weekend schedules etc is something I am interested to see her provide.
If I am not happy with what she first draws up, yes, I will fight.
Man, just getting initial L consults is hard! They are either booked and not taking on any new cases, scheduling weeks/months out, or want $200 just for initial consultation!
This process is the pits!
I guess Im a little confused. Are you planning to go through with mediation? My understanding is that the process requires both parties to come to the table and discuss and agree on terms. If thats not what youre planning, then why agree to it? Is there anything you need to fight for?
I am not going to stop her for what she believes is best - but I also don't plan on helping her file and get the ball rolling.
I didnt say for you to pick up the ball and take care of everything. But if you know that a mediator isnt going to work, then its silly to have her spin her wheels. So I think usually before you go to a mediator, you may want to make sure you are aligned on key issues - some financials and custody and things like that. Sure, you can have her draft a proposal, but that wasnt what I was understanding from your initial post.
MoveFrwd - understood. But being as how I don't approve of the D (she did not try to work on anything and just threw in towel.. most likely thinking grass is greener with EA / OM) - I am not in a rush to go from marriage that I had no idea anything was wrong to legal D within now a month and a half.
As I read my state laws - you have to have "Irretrievable breakdown in relationship for a period of at least six months" in order to file for no-fault. I am not sure how that time frame is time-boxed, I assume from BD which was right around new years.
MoveFrwd - understood. But being as how I don't approve of the D (she did not try to work on anything and just threw in towel.. most likely thinking grass is greener with EA / OM) - I am not in a rush to go from marriage that I had no idea anything was wrong to legal D within now a month and a half.
I guess Im not sure your frame of mind. Which do you think has a more likely chance at a positive outcome?
1) you dragging your feet and making it difficult for you to divorce, causing your marriage to go on longer.
2) you providing information as requested and your W is free to make her own choices
I guess my point is that the more you try to cling to the "marriage", the harder she will try to get away and the more she will resent you. Fight for what you want/deserve in the financial and custodial aspects. But forcing her to stay married longer because "you didnt know anything was wrong" or "you dont believe her claims allow for filing": or whatever other reason will only lead to more resentment and rebellion.
Just realized going back and reading my original thread, that MoveFrwd is the poster formerly known as Amoafwl!
Just realized going back and reading my original thread, that MoveFrwd is the poster formerly known as Amoafwl!
LOL. Yeah, I changed my name a few weeks ago.
The last one was kind of a mouthful.
It seems I am getting conflicting advice here, which I suppose should not be a surprise. Some say 'let her file and do all the work' , some say 'help carry on/move along the D process'.
I guess at the end of the day it is all up to me of course.
If this was a prolonged IHS with anger and kids effected by it, I would be more inclined to hurry along the D. However I believe WW is living a fairy tale life right now with EA / OM and really not has thought all this through yet. I am inclined for her to go through the litigation / mediation process consults to hopefully put some sense in her.
The way I look at it - time is on my side - no matter outcome of Marriage.
svdad it is very easy.
IF you are tired of it and want to move on, then do the latter. If you are still morally opposed to the idea of D then do the former.
The point with the first one is simple, most of the time the WAS will not follow through. The point of the second one is that once the LBS gets tired of limbo and fed up they will go ahead and pull the trigger on D.
It isn't so much conflicting advice as advice for where you are. The general rule is to give your sitch a good year before throwing in the towel. But that requires fortitude, patience, and self-control.
svdad it is very easy.
IF you are tired of it and want to move on, then do the latter. If you are still morally opposed to the idea of D then do the former.
The point with the first one is simple, most of the time the WAS will not follow through. The point of the second one is that once the LBS gets tired of limbo and fed up they will go ahead and pull the trigger on D.
It isn't so much conflicting advice as advice for where you are. The general rule is to give your sitch a good year before throwing in the towel. But that requires fortitude, patience, and self-control.
I'd be happy with her cooling off and thinking this really over for 6 months. But 1 month into this and her gun ho on mediation makes me think I should allow her to go at this herself to find out how (not) easy it is to D with kids. She is making it seem like this is so easy and no L's needed and it can be done in a day and we can go our own ways and kids are resilient and will just move right on with no impact as well....
svdad it is very easy.
IF you are tired of it and want to move on, then do the latter. If you are still morally opposed to the idea of D then do the former.
The point with the first one is simple, most of the time the WAS will not follow through. The point of the second one is that once the LBS gets tired of limbo and fed up they will go ahead and pull the trigger on D.
It isn't so much conflicting advice as advice for where you are. The general rule is to give your sitch a good year before throwing in the towel. But that requires fortitude, patience, and self-control.
I'd be happy with her cooling off and thinking this really over for 6 months. But 1 month into this and her gun ho on mediation makes me think I should allow her to go at this herself to find out how (not) easy it is to D with kids. She is making it seem like this is so easy and no L's needed and it can be done in a day and we can go our own ways and kids are resilient and will just move right on with no impact as well....
A big wake-up call for my W was when I called a lawyer for a free consult, and then told her about a few weeks later. Most WAS want to take the path of least resistance. If you offer some resistance it take the "gungho" out of them.
It seems I am getting conflicting advice here, which I suppose should not be a surprise. Some say 'let her file and do all the work' , some say 'help carry on/move along the D process'.
Im not sure youre understanding.
I am NOT saying to help/move along the process.
I am saying if she asks you for financial details, then its reasonable to give her that. If she wants to sit down with you to discuss a parenting plan, then its reasonable to do that.
Im saying that it isnt your job to make a budget for her. It isnt your job to go out and find a mediator and set the appointment. Im also saying that you shouldnt say "Im going to go to the mediator with you" if you have no intention of doing so.
Let her drive. Your job is to basically let her drive without throwing up roadblocks or putting on the brakes because "yoou dont want a divorce" or "you want to stay married longer" or things like that.
It seems I am getting conflicting advice here, which I suppose should not be a surprise. Some say 'let her file and do all the work' , some say 'help carry on/move along the D process'.
Im not sure youre understanding.
I am NOT saying to help/move along the process.
I am saying if she asks you for financial details, then its reasonable to give her that. If she wants to sit down with you to discuss a parenting plan, then its reasonable to do that.
Im saying that it isnt your job to make a budget for her. It isnt your job to go out and find a mediator and set the appointment. Im also saying that you shouldnt say "Im going to go to the mediator with you" if you have no intention of doing so.
Let her drive. Your job is to basically let her drive without throwing up roadblocks or putting on the brakes because "yoou dont want a divorce" or "you want to stay married longer" or things like that.
Thanks - this is 100 percent what I am doing - and my plan.
As I read my state laws - you have to have "Irretrievable breakdown in relationship for a period of at least six months" in order to file for no-fault. I am not sure how that time frame is time-boxed, I assume from BD which was right around new years.
This varies a lot from state-to-state, in some states the two of you have to agree what that date is. In other states you have to file for D before the clock starts ticking. In others if you file for S then that is considered the start date.
It seems I am getting conflicting advice here, which I suppose should not be a surprise. Some say 'let her file and do all the work' , some say 'help carry on/move along the D process'.
It looks like you got some clarification from Steve and MF on this but as they said, the DB'ing approach is don't do the work yourself but don't interfere with the process either. It only takes one to D, so you can't stop it. If you try to stonewall her on it it'll just make her angry and more convinced D is the only answer. But if you go along with it and provide her with any info she requests, then it sends a message that you may not want D but you are not going to stop it either. And that removes the pressure from her, and she may very well stop pursuing it (it happens here a LOT).
If this was a prolonged IHS with anger and kids effected by it, I would be more inclined to hurry along the D.
You've always got that option and sometimes it does come to that. Just make sure that you're thinking about it calmly and rationally and not acting out of anger or frustration or a lack of patience.
This varies a lot from state-to-state, in some states the two of you have to agree what that date is. In other states you have to file for D before the clock starts ticking. In others if you file for S then that is considered the start date.
Thanks for this! Since I have yet to have L consultation this was something that I was very curious about. Much appreciated AS!
So, quick update. Not much has happened other than I have had a couple of consults with L's to understand this process and my rights (and to get an idea for child support and alimony cost I am going to have to provide .. which is a LOT of money I was not expecting since we are 50/50 custody agreement....). I make almost 3x than she does so I guess that is why one attorney said....
But, she sent me this link.
http://divorceyourselfny.comIs she really serious? What should I respond? First mediator route and now this divorceyourself $300 kit or whatever it is?
Part of me wants to respond "are you serious?" but the other part of me wants to just go forward with it and possibly not have to pay all this child support/alimony. Seems like she is really clueless about this process and really *really* just wants it done fast. And she believes divorcing is so simple you can do it with a $300 kit.....
Any thoughts?
SV,
Tell her you don't feel comfortable doing this process online.
Suggest a sit down to discuss custody and financial aspects of it. If you can come to an agreement you will still need lawyers but the cost will be minimal.
SV,
Tell her you don't feel comfortable doing this process online.
Suggest a sit down to discuss custody and financial aspects of it. If you can come to an agreement you will still need lawyers but the cost will be minimal.
It appears this is not only online, but there are offices not too far away actually. It just seems super fishy to me. Like a shotgun divorce.
Anyone else care to give me their opinion on how to respond or if I should possibly look into this divorce 'kit' as I might be able to get out of paying a significant amount of $$ per month if we go this route?
thanks
S,
What makes you think you are going to get out of alimony/child support by going this route? I am sure the site calculates like attorneys would calculate it.
Its probably just a kit to file pro se, but if you really want to go that route you don't need a kit to file pro se. There are people who DIY their divorce. However, if you are trying to get out of alimony or CS couldn't she just hire a L down the road and come after you? Also some judges may not rubber stamp your D if it doesn't look right esp with kids involved. I don't know, and I am guessing you probably don't either. That's why a consult with a L is a good idea.
I am not looking to get out of CS by any means. But if she (currently) is not looking to take half of my 401k and doesnt even know about alimony/maintenance then so be it. This might be an (easier) route to make that happen and keep her happy as well?
I obviously want what is best for my kids and will be providing CS for when they are with her 50 percent of the time, but the numbers I got from one of my L consults was like 3k a month. That seem excessive to me. We don't spend anywhere near that much on the kids per month at this point in their lives.
Is this a fairly common number when one person makes 3x more than the other spouse?
SV,
Yes it's all a calculation. You have to put a roof over their head and she has to have a vehicle to drive, plus food, clothes etc.
The kicker is that doesn't even include sports, braces, medical bills which you will most likely pay the majority of in the future.
Your best bet is to sit down with her and try to explain to her that you can't afford to give her $3k a month. That is your best bet.
Please start a new thread and link both threads to each other. You've reached the 100 posting/reply limit for this one. Thanks!
Anyone else care to give me their opinion on how to respond or if I should possibly look into this divorce 'kit' as I might be able to get out of paying a significant amount of $$ per month if we go this route?thanks
H:"W, thanks for the link. Looks like a possible option. I plan on doing some more research on other options as well. I want to make sure we do the right thing for our kids. regards H"