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MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology

Posted By: MrBrside

MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 02:42 PM

Hello,

I found this board by chance yesterday and have had an enlightening day - Mainly from Sandi2s excellent contributions and insight.
That said, I would really appreciate some opinions on my own situation.
I have had 6 months of hell and only a few days ago came across the information of a MLC. Now I'm just trying to get some clarity - Is she having a MLC or just drifted apart and I didn't see it.

Sorry in advance for the long post.

Background. Me and my ex partner would have been together for 8 years. (separated 3 weeks ago) We have 3 children. I would go as far as to say its been a happy relationship for the most part. We fell head over feet in love in a very short period of time (both in our early 30s at the time) and brought a house / had our first child very quickly. To be fair, that was never a problem, and I can say that the first few years were amazing and happy. There was one thing that always niggled me, but apart from that, I had no concerns. The niggle was that when we met, she told me she didn't like her boss because he kept "trying it on" but he was married and she hated cheaters. When my phone broke, I borrowed her old phone for a few days, but she had forgot to wipe the "sent items" (old style phone where you had an inbox and sent - before the days of merged messages like you have now on iPhone etc) .. In the sent items were about 20 saved messages - all to this boss and all very flirty / inappropriate. In them days, it was stored as a separate text message, so I couldn't see what she was replying to, but I know his wife wouldn't have been happy to read what my partner had sent him (these were sent about 12 months prior to us getting together) . When I took a shower that night, she went into the phone and deleted them. This was very early in the relationship and I never mentioned it..But it was clear she had lied to me.. But young love makes your blind.

Fast forward about 3 years and I noticed messages on her phone from a name I didn't know. When I quizzed her about it, she admitted he was an ex who messaged her occasionally and she deleted them as he was a bit flirty and she didn't want me getting annoyed. This guy has bobbed up sporadically over our relationship, but its maybe once or twice a year. Hence again, its always been there, but I never believed anything of it.

I should also say that my ex-partner can be very irrational / one sighted if she gets something in her head. In the 8 years, the majority of the arguments have been due to her irrational way in getting something. ie when first child was born, she wanted a bigger car - Not a problem and didn't disagree. But she wanted it that day and went out with her mum to sort. Regardless of It being a terrible deal (sales man saw her coming) she wanted a new car that day, and because I wanted to shop around it caused massive rows. This is the story of our life - Once or twice a year, she gets something in her head and it causes big rows. ie new sofa, house move, boob job etc.

She also rarely ever accepts blame or responsibility. There is always a "but" or "because" and very rarely "I'm sorry or a I was wrong"

Generally, though, I would say we had a happy relationship and I love her, regardless of faults. I am also far from perfect - my biggest fault is reacting to her impulsive demands and shooting her down without seeing it from her perspective - hence it escalates.

We had our 3rd child in 2016 and all was great. Mid 2017 came and things did start to change. Up to that point we both saved every penny to move to our dream home and we managed to buy it. We moved to our "dream home" and everything fell into place. Or so I though. Once we no longer needed to save, things did start to change. The first thing was a boob job. She decided she wanted this a month after moving into the new house, and it caused massive rows (we couldn't afford it after the house purchase and I refused to agree to sign up to finance for it ). This caused big rows as she lost a lot of self confidence in her body after the 3rd child - she look amazing still… But she didn't think so. Luckily, I got a decent bonus from work, so it covered that cost, but soon after it was Botox and new clothes- lots of clothes. She also started to go out with her friends a lot more than previously.
I also have to hold my hands up here and say that from September to November 2017 I was a bad partner. I had a major project on at work and spent most nights in the same room, but on my laptop. It was always a "short term" thing and since then, my laptop never leaves my bag for work purposes in the evening. But for that 2-month period, I didn't give her the attention I used to or should have.

Her response to this was just to spend more time on her phone (Facebook or clothes sites usually) - it never caused any rows at the time. Of course, once the project was over and I was happy to get my life / time with her back, she wasn't so happy to give up Facebook, and she is happy to spend an hour on it each night once the children were asleep...
But even at this point (early to mid-2018 ) I wouldn't say we were unhappy - looking back, we did a lot of stuff as a family, but not much as a couple.. or she was out with her mates on Saturdays (majority are single or divorced) . But I never once considered our relationship to be in trouble. The text messages between us and photos from that time show we were positive. It was only in June / July 2018 that I noticed she had zero interest in any intimacy and was really really absorbed in her phone (Facebook or clothes shopping) - she didn't like me to touch her, and there was always a reason why she didn't want to make love. But I didn't give up and we had a great family holiday and I really thought things were back on track.

That's when it started to go downhill.

She went on a girls night out and crossed the line.

Up until that point there was never any trust issues and It was just by pure coincidence that I ever found out. She asked me to plug her phone on charge, and as I was, a message from her friend popped up, saying "don't do anything unless you are 100% sure".

I questioned this, and after hours of lying she admitted that she had been overly flirty with a guy from work and sent some flirty messages which she shouldn't have. As it turns out, they had been messaging each other for over a month prior to this on Facebook, which weren't deleted... I read them and although there was nothing OTT in there, it is obvious how it had paved the way for that evening.

My partner was distraught about what she had done, blamed the acohol and ceased all non work-related contact with the guy. She also put a lot of blame on me, saying I never noticed that she had been unhappy for several months. ( it was months at this point, not years as it becomes later ) and that they wouldn't of messages so much if she had been happy.

We did a couple's council session which went well and we had a really great 8 weeks. We had 1 row in the middle, but I can honestly say it was like a new relationship. Both of us gave it 100% and it was not just good, it was amazing. The intimacy, the communication, the consideration, the trust. It all returned and we both felt it.
8 weeks later and we had the worst week ever with our youngest and her sleeping. She was up all night and we were getting literally 1 to 2 hours sleep a night for a whole week.

My partner started to act odd again though. She didn't want me next to her in the evenings, or in bed. The intimacy and communication just stopped. I also spotted her keeping her phone out of my view. She put it down to the tiredness we were both suffering. I then spotted a drunken Facebook message from guy in the middle of the night on her lock screen. I checked a few hours later and it was deleted. She said he was just a guy she had bumped into on a night out and he was trying to set his friend up with a single friend of my partners. She had deleted all the previous messages, as she didn't want to burst our "bubble" which we had lived in for the last 8 weeks.
She agreed to stop messaging the guy and move on.

That didn't happen. It went from the odd message to him to then messaging for hours and hours in the following 3 days. She blamed the exhaustion of being up all night with the baby and that I didn't get it and understand her. All messages were deleted. She started to say she was no longer sure what she wanted and if she wanted to be together. When I said I was going to message this guy and ask him to back off, she said it was over between us if I did, because he was "just a friend" supporting her though a tough week. This was October 18. Once the sleep pattern returned, she began to rationalise and we decided to try counselling. Unbeknown to my partner I had messaged this guy and asked him to back off. So, he stopped making the effort to contact her. Things actually got back to a betterish place - no arguments, although she was distant - no affection or effort on her part and it a million miles away from 2 weeks prior.

We tried counselling again, but it actually made it worse as the councillor put a lot of emphasis on how many relationships she had seen destroyed by "nice guys" messaging people on social media etc, just saying they were mates, but it escalating - all because they wanted one thing. My partner was adamant his guy was just "a mate" and She called my partner naïve and set "boundaries" - ie don't delete messages and cease making conversation and reduce time on the phone in the evening.

I thought the session ended on a high, but the reality was my partner was livid. She walked out of the session saying she didn't appreciate being called Naïve and wasn't going to be treated like a child - ie reduce time on Facebook. She then started up a new conversation with this guy the next day. He told her about my message and that just made matters worse.

I gave it my all for another 2 weeks, buying flowers, nice messages, giving her space when she asked for it and affection (one sided) if she wanted it - but got nothing back. Everything felt distant and they carried on messaging. She lied about it most of the time, but I can always tell when she lies. All messages deleted as well.

The blame then started to come into it a lot more, with my partner blaming me for how she has been feeling. She started saying she has been unhappy for months, a year, years ( depending on the day ) Even the EA had with her work colleague got rewritten as "just mates" and I was just the jealous and controlling partner who had made an innocent friendship / work relationship into something it wasn't. . I spoke to the councillor privately and neither of us could understand this change in her.. i.e. risking what was a happy family relationship for nothing. We touched on the idea of venerable Narcissism (the blame, lies, likes the attention off this guy, always my fault, etc ) and did another session as a couple . Again, my partner made the same promises and said she wanted it to work. But they lasted 3 days. He messaged her while drunk on the Saturday and she deleted them. This carried on for a couple of weeks, with him and her always being "online" on WhatsApp and her denying it was him.

In December, after her usual lies of denying a 2-hour chat session with him, she then changed the passcode to her phone. I decided enough was enough and gave her the choice. Me / our family or him. She didn't say "him" (he's only a mate came out a lot) but said she was happy to end it because she wouldn't be told what to do or who she could be "friends with" and was sick of the anxiety the arguments over texting this "mate" were causing. That night she went out with her mates and "bumped" into him - they then spend over an hour the next morning on the phone messaging continually while I was at home with the children.

It was around then that she also said she felt with we were no longer "connected" and would always love me, but didn't think she was in love with me anymore.

In the meantime, she has also spent £900 more than we have earned in the past 3 months from our joint account, so the savings have taken a hit. She justifies the spend with xmas and the kids birthdays, but clothes arrive near daily. She is on first name terms with the postman, who she chats to when he drops packages off - He even added her on Facebook as they have become so pally !

Since then my life has been a rollercoaster. Her family have accused me of threatening her!, although it was just a conversation over ending the relationship and custody of the kids. She didn't like me saying that I would be seeking 50 / 50 custody, but there were never any threats. Just statements. She has admitted / agreed that I never threatened her, and her version is that its her mother's fault for "interoperating "what she told her incorrectly. I asked her why she hasn't corrected her mother, but she has no explanation. Her mates hate me because I am "jealous and controlling" - but if I ask her "do they know how much you actually message this guy?" she just plays dumb to the question.

But once I started to distance myself, she promised to cease the messaging and started to get upset / try and make the effort. We would have 4 or 5 good days, then it would go full circle - I would see her continually "online" again. The argument would follow and she would say she wasn't happy (and usually that she hasn't been happy for a year, 2 years, 4 years - these timescales vary with each argument) and we are separated, so she can do what she wants. The best line she has come out with was "if we were still an item, it could be considered excessive - but we are separated "!!!! - yet she messaged him for months when we were an item. This has gone on for 3 weeks. In the meantime, she has met another guy at the gym, who messages daily. His intentions are very clear and he has sent a few flirty messages (he has already asked her out for a walk) , but again he is "just a mate" in her head. These messages also get deleted.

I now know this as "cake eating"

She is now looking to purchase a house for her and the children.

I have been trying to figure this out for 3 months because the person I live with isn't the person I know or fell in love with or even recognise any more.

The lies just flow and her irrational actions are off the scale. Prior to reading about MLC I showed her a list of things that equate to an EA - she laughed it off as he is" just a mate" and its me with the problem (controlling and jealous). Everything has a justification (excessive spending, hours online messaging, going out a lot more with mates) I was convinced it was venerable Narcissism after the 2nd counselling session because of some of the traits (blame, lies, manipulation, avoid taking responsibility) , but it still didn't explain her blurred vision of past happiness or wanting to destroy a family over a guy she has known for 8 weeks !

The councillor never picked up on this and I am not an expert.

I found this board and was like WHAM - this is my life..

Thoughts apricated please - do I live with an ex-partner who just fell out of love after 8 years and is now appreciating the male attention, or somebody going through a MLC ?

Thanks
Posted By: Cadet

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 02:52 PM

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 03:03 PM

H,

Wow after all that in the end you are living with an ex girlfriend? Kinda hypocritical don't you think.

We have read your story hundreds of times on here. You are correct, you are not crazy, she is crossing the line and these are not just mates.

All you can do is work on yourself, exercise, spend time with family and friends, take up a hobby etc.

Have you seen a lawyer regarding assets and custody?
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 03:15 PM

Are y'all married? How old are you two?

I'm always wary to hear a married gal got a boob job. Usually doesn't end up well.

You having a tough 2 month period of work doesn't make you a bad partner. Marriage is a sacrifice, give and take.

You may have neglected her happiness, but that doesn't justify an affair.

Originally Posted by helpme12
She agreed to stop messaging the guy and move on.
That's the second time/man she's done that on in the last year. Not good.

Originally Posted by helpme12
When I said I was going to message this guy and ask him to back off
It's her you should be mad at. The OM (other man) is always going to be there, there are hundreds of men willing to help a married gal cheat. So while the guy is a POS, it's your W that is enabling him to be a part of her life.

Originally Posted by helpme12
We tried counselling again, but it actually made it worse as the councillor put a lot of emphasis on how many relationships she had seen destroyed by "nice guys" messaging people on social media etc, just saying they were mates, but it escalating - all because they wanted one thing. My partner was adamant his guy was just "a mate" and She called my partner naïve and set "boundaries" - ie don't delete messages and cease making conversation and reduce time on the phone in the evening.
Your counselor was/is right. Your W is full of crap. Counseling didn't make it worse, your W did. Her reaction after leaving counseling shows she is rebelling against you and the marriage (if you're married). Strap in tight man, this is probably going to get crazy.

She's making up lies and excuses. The best thing you did was telling her what you won't put up with. You won't be with her while she flirts with every dude in town. Chances are things have made it past flirting too. There's just red flags everywhere. This is a classic WW.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 03:37 PM

Welcome and sorry you are here. But you have come to the right place.

First and foremost, you are calling it a MLC. We all make similar or the same mistake. We think if we can define it, then we can fix it. So the first lesson for you is STOP TRYING TO FIX IT. You can't. It takes two to make a marriage but only one to D. The reality is that no matter what you want, say or do, if she wants a D you will end up D'd.

Your W is wayward. This is why when you distance yourself she stops the behavior. She wants the security she gets from you as a H AND she wants to do whatever she wants as a "separated" woman. I quote that because that is her excuse to do what she wants. But she expects you to provide your paycheck, take care of the kids when she needs it, etc. WAYWARD.

Learn from the pursuit distant dynamic (there is a thread here on that). You distance, her behavior "improves". I quoted that because it doesn't really, she just changes it to manipulate you. Okay, here is a hard fact: she has probably physically cheated on you, multiple times. Sorry to be blunt, but you need to go into this with your eyes wide open. Guys that are out for one thing do not stick around long if they aren't getting that one thing. Guys can flirt with anyone, they continue to flirt with those that it bears fruit with.

Here are actions you need to take: First, kick her out of the marital bedroom. "Where am I going to sleep?" SHE figures that out, just put her out. Ws that cheat do not get to share the MBR with their Hs. Second continue to detach. (Read what loving detachment means in the detachment thread.) She wants time and space, give it to her. Next, you admit that you aren't perfect. Make and honest assessment of your flaws and then 180 on them. This is a time for self-exploration and discovery, and a chance to fix yourself. You can't fix her. You can' fix the MR. But you can FIX YOU! So do it.

And then the most important: GAL. Like a madman. Every minute you aren't at work, or spending time with your kids, you are BUSY BUSY BUSY. Also, do new things. Make new (MALE) friends. Become the man only a fool would leave!

One simple truth you need to keep in mind. It saved me in my own sitch: You can only control one person in this world. That person is you! Stop trying to control her. Looking at her phone IS trying to control her. LET HER GO TO GET HER BACK!

Finally, employ all of sandi's rules. You can't fix the marriage, but taking these actions and following sandi's rules, being true to good DB principles, will give you a chance at a MR 2.0 with her. (Note, I realize you never said the two of you were married. I am using terminology as if you were. Sorry, but whether you've formalized you marriage or not legally, you have been living as husband and wife for years, and have 3 kids. So I still see this as no different than if you were married legally.)
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 04:21 PM

Hi,

Many thanks for the replies..

I am just currently reading through the links smile - great info..

We are not married, but for all intents and purposes have always lived like that.

I am 38, she is 36..

Glad i am not going crazy..

Spoke to a solicitor today for an hour to discuss assets and children. Sshe is to write up my options this week. So its a starts
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 04:29 PM

Help- great posts above from the others, I don't really have much to add. She may or may not be MLC but she is 100% wayward. Read as many of Sandi's posts as you can, she talks a lot about the differences between a WAW and a WW and goes into what you should and should not do with a wayward. Brace yourself for great difficulties ahead, WW's can be very mean/ angry/ vindictive. Being complacent and accommodating will not work with a WW, you've got to adopt a "tough love" approach.


Originally Posted by LH19
Wow after all that in the end you are living with an ex girlfriend? Kinda hypocritical don't you think.


He lives with his GF (they're not married). You probably misunderstood this line: "Thoughts appreciated please - do I live with an ex-partner who just fell out of love after 8 years and is now appreciating the male attention, or somebody going through a MLC ? "

He's asking if his GF is already an ex who fell out of love, or if she's in MLC.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 04:35 PM

Many thanks..

Does anybody have any advise re the solicitors meeting. Due to her irrational actions at the moment, the solicitor is advising that she sends no paperwork initially - let my ex partner think she is calling the shots.. I also dont want her to twist or manipulate with the children in the future ( ie Daddy caused all this to happen by seeing a solicitor ) - I know she has already appointed one as well ( i found out accidently when trying to book one and was told there was a conflict of interest once i gave her name ) - should i just keep quiet about ir for now.

thanks
Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 04:38 PM

Ahhh I see. I misread it.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
Many thanks..

Does anybody have any advise re the solicitors meeting. Due to her irrational actions at the moment, the solicitor is advising that she sends no paperwork initially - let my ex partner think she is calling the shots.. I also dont want her to twist or manipulate with the children in the future ( ie Daddy caused all this to happen by seeing a solicitor ) - I know she has already appointed one as well ( i found out accidently when trying to book one and was told there was a conflict of interest once i gave her name ) - should i just keep quiet about ir for now.

thanks


I would listen to my lawyer.
And keeping quiet, is normally a good thing, unless their is some legal advantage to not keep quiet.
Posted By: Accuray

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/10/19 09:42 PM

helpme12,

Here's what's behind her blaming you and re-writing history: she knows she's doing something she shouldn't, she knows she's wrong, but at the same time, what she's doing is really exciting and makes her feel really good!

That's a bind -- she shouldn't do this, but she can't help herself from continuing.

When that happens, people will initially beat themselves up and feel very guilty for what they are doing, but human nature is that you can only feel bad about yourself for so long and then a preservation instinct kicks in.

When that happens, it goes something like this: "I'm doing a bad thing, but I'm not a bad person. So if I'm not a bad person, someone else must be *making* me do this, and *they* must be the bad person"

Since you're the only other one in the relationship, they'll latch on to you as the cause of the problem, and will then re-write history, invent things, and look for any little thing you do that supports they stories they are telling themselves.

It is a very sophisticated form of self-hypnosis so that they can justify and continue their behavior without the attendant guilt they had been feeling.

If you're then remorseful, apologetic, and pursue them, it reinforces that you must be acting this way because you did something wrong, and it makes your situation even worse!

Your very best move here from a psychological perspective is to completely go the other way. You leave her versus her leaving you. Don't accept anything she's telling you about this being your fault, just outright reject it. Don't compromise on that, don't think you'll be a nice guy and meet in the middle, feel free to make her angry. She needs to believe that you consider yourself to be more valuable than the treatment you've been getting.

You need to establish your value, by not allowing yourself to be in a relationship with someone who is not faithful. You can't control what she does, there's no way you can do that, but you CAN control what treatment you will and will not accept.

Moving away from her emotionally is scary and seems counter-intuitive, but its absolutely the best move you can make.

Think back to dating -- who is more intriguing to you, a person who easily falls into your arms, or a person who is hard to get? Which one is more attractive?

Acc
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 12:00 PM

Many thanks...

Accuray, your post is excellent..

My only regret in all this is that it has taken me months to finally find this forum..

2 months of what i felt was like cat and mouse chasing - Draw me in, push me away..

The above is so helpfull.

I found this site on Wednesday and put the "distancing" into affect from Wed night..

My Ex was not happy last night ( as that was the 2nd night i had watched TV in the kids playroom ) - she even came in before she went to bed and told me "you are free to go into the living room now , as i am off to bed - scenes as you dont want to spend time with me anymore"

So interesting to see how this progresses smile

thanks again.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 01:21 PM

help, be aware that she may attempt to use sex to reattach you. With her recent past I would be very very leery of giving in. The rule is that if she is not physically cheating then you can as long as you do not have any expectations or attach any significance to it. In your case I would handle this as if she is physically cheating because all signs point to that as being the case.

"Sorry, that is what we would do if we were in a committed relationship with each other. I cannot jeopardize my health on top of everything else."
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 01:33 PM

Thanks.. This has crossed my mine already.. She used this trick back in August when i read the text off her friend, after that night out with the first guy from work.. At this point she had been distant and no intamacy on her part for for 2 months, but the second i started asking questions about the context of this message from her friend ( she lied every which way she could to avoid admitting about the guy at work ) it was "oh babe lets go upstairs and make love " - It didnt happen then and it wont happen now..

I have feel like i have lost self respect for letting this go on since october ( cake eating / cat and mouse ) - i should have ended it and distanced myself when she refused to stop messaging the first guy / lied / deleted messages etc...

But i was blind to what i have now read on this forum.. This week has been so positive becuase its now about ME and ME moving forwrd ( well ME and my CHILDREN :-) )
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12

My Ex was not happy last night ( as that was the 2nd night i had watched TV in the kids playroom ) - she even came in before she went to bed and told me "you are free to go into the living room now , as i am off to bed - scenes as you dont want to spend time with me anymore"


Why are you holing up in the kids' room? Be the king of your castle. It's your domain. If she wants to cower in a closet to avoid you or hang off the edge of the bed for fear you might touch her then fine, that's her problem. But you should not be changing your routine or hiding or moving to other rooms. Yes you want to give her time and space but that just means don't follow her around or be overly chatty to her.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 01:59 PM

Actually, to back AS up, kick her out of the bed entirely if you are still sharing it. You never answered me about the master bedroom. If you moved out of it, move back in and kick her out.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 02:33 PM

Sorry - She has not been in the master bedroom for months.. She sleeps in the guest bedroom..

Downstairs we have the main lounge, but also a seperate room where the kids play / watch TV.

I have moved to here in the evening now to avoid spending any time with her once the children are in bed. ( distancing ) - Are we saying i should still keep the same routine as the last 8 years and share a room in the evening with her watching TV ? -

thanks
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/11/19 03:05 PM

helpme, please read the detachment thread. Detachment isn't avoiding her.

However, this is where I remind you: GAL.

Kids go to bed, she goes into the lounge to watch TV.

Start getting ready to go out for a while.

"Where are you going?"

"I have plans."

"With who?"

"Those are details I would share if we were in a committed relationship." Then leave, go do something fun. Come back get ready for bed and go to bed.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/12/19 09:07 PM

Hi Steve85,

Bit confused. I am not going out of my way to avoid, and following the detachment rules.... But in one of sandis posts she states

*Immediately withdraw his physical presence from her as much as possible. He should spend time with his kids, of course, but not alone time with her. He should not engage in usual family events, celebrations, etc. It is better the kids be disappointed for a shorter period of time than a lifetime of hurt.

Hence i am no longer watching TV in the same room as her. We spend time together in the main lounge with the kids, but once they are in bed, i watch TV in the other room..

Regardless, it is really getting to her lol.. She keeps making snide comments..

I went out last night, and she spent the whole time i was out "online" on whatsapp to the OM..

So i think in one way she has noticed the detament, but on the other side, she is using this "space" to spend more time messaging him..

But feeling so much more positive. Best week in months.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/12/19 09:43 PM

What I mean is, yes don't spend time with her, but don't do it in an ignoring, avoiding away. Just be busy.. Retreating to the other room to watch TV sends the wrong message. TV isn't busy. Be busy. Good job on the going out. That is what you want! If you're in the house after the kids are in bed, busy, busy, busy. Reading is being busy. Doing online research etc. During my sitch if I was in the house I was doing something productive.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 09:57 AM

Hi all,

Well its been an interesting weekend. I went out on Friday and have kept things “amicable and neighbourly” over the weekend.

She went to view a new house yesterday and says she wants to sort finances asap so she can put a deposit down.

Things went a bit south last night though as I told her I was off out once we had put the children to bed.

She kept asking “who with”

I pretty much followed Steve85s advise and said that we were “separated” – hence “separate” lives..

She got annoyed and she brought up needed the money for the house asap etc – Told her I would speak to mortgage adviser tomorrow to sort the finances, and I was waiting for the solicitors recommendations based on the minutes of our meeting and then we will discuss – That hit her like a sledge hammer, as until that point she had mentioned getting a solicitor, but I hadn’t told her I had seen one.. She just burst into tears.

She then turned it back on the going out and assumed it was with a girl ( it wasn’t, it was my best mate, who actually went through the whole wayward affair thing 4 months after getting married – his partner work up after the EA turned PA and the guy ditched her – too late for them though )

I didn’t correct her and just said it was separate lives.

As I was leaving she insisted on trying to talk to me ( she was very upset ) and was demanding to know why I have changed so much in a week .. ie her words “last week I wanted to save us, and now I am dead set on ending it”.

I just said I didn’t want to go into it, but she made the choice when she chose to message a guy over our relationship or family… She fired back with “they are just a few silly messages and we have separated because we haven’t been happy for ages”.

Told her I didn’t want to discuss it , but we had only had 2 big rows in 12 months and It was never that bad - and I left, with her in tears.

Within 2 minutes of me leaving, she was on WhatsApp – I suspect telling people how I was on a date with a girl etc

This morning I was normal and upbeat - she was a wreck… She had obviously been crying and I think she could burst into tears at any point…I suspect she would have done when I left.

So couple of questions for people..

Should I tell her that I went to the pub with my best mate last night and it wasn’t a female?

Does anybody here consider this whole 180 as emotional abuse / torture to my ex .. I had no issues with it initially but now she is noticing it, you can see its taking the toll - but is the consensus its ok to go distant, even if It hurts them ? or am I being soft ?

I suspect judging my the amount of time she is on her phone once I leave the house / room, this distancing is pushing her closer to the other guy.. Is this the norm with most people – just leave them to it ?

I remember reading on one of Sandis posts about her finding this forum and it being her wakeup – has anybody every actually mentioned the term “wayward fog” to their partner and let them do the rest ( ie don’t get into it, but give them a breadcrumb )

Thanks
Posted By: Hurt213

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 12:04 PM

helpme12,

First of all, sorry about your sitch. I have been trying to catch up.

So basically, by pulling back, detaching, GAL'ing you are withdrawing yourself from her presence, and thereby the power she feels she possess over you / your situation is diminishing, and you no longer stand out as being a a sure plan B to her.

I do believe you need to see her tears for what they most likely are - temp checking to see if you will crumble and adopt your behaviour to her choosing, and a understanding that you are not caving, you are standing strong for yourself because you have self-respect, you are nobody fkn plan b.

Regarding your questions:

Do not tell her, where you went last night, she chose this, she no longer gets to be involved in your personal life. It is none of her business.

Regarding 180s. The 180s are for you, they are for you to reflect on how you can evolve, and for you to understand what you can do to be a better person, a person you want to be. They might influence people around you, and mostly that influence will be positive. However, they might come off as negative as well (your WW will definitely take your changing behaviors as something you purely do to annoy her, and not to better yourself). Do not take offense, do not react to her outburst. Know that what you do, you do for you, and whoever deserves to be in a relationship with you down the line. And maybe that is your WW, but right now, she most likely resents whatever change you work on.

Regarding GAL and pushing her to the other guy. So basically, and this took me quite a while to grasp. You aren't pushing her. She is choosing to be drawn, and by doing so, she is choosing to distance herself from you. You see, this is about HER and the actions she makes. You can't make her choose differently. She is a human being, that right now, thinks the grass is greener on the other side, and she is experiencing and exploring. So you basically have two choices. Stay home, sit in a corner, and observe her make those choices regardless of what you come up with. See your life pass by, hours, minutes and seconds you will never get back......

or... Get out of the house, do things you want to do, reach out to people you miss, explore and grow. Maybe these actions will spark her interest, maybe she will wonder where you are, and what you are doing.. Maybe this will pull her from the fog. Maybe them having a lot of time together will make her see, what she really left behind, maybe not... In the end, you will have grown, you will have experienced, and you will have healed.

Do not feed her any breadcrumbs, she will see this as pursuing and you will push her away. You need to let her make her own choices, and maybe those choices will bring her back to you, and maybe not. You use the time you have now, to become AMOAFWL, and then you follow your dreams. Live for you, do not live in the shadows of a person that clearly wants nothing from you right now. You are worth so much, and time on this planet is so limited, so make the best of it, every fkin day you have.

You are awesome!

/H
Posted By: DavidUK

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
You distance, her behavior "improves". I quoted that because it doesn't really, she just changes it to manipulate you.


The advice I've been given is that W will find new ways to manipulate you to get what she wants and will stop at nothing.

Do as she wants and she will use you and have no respect for you, don't do as she wants and she will wreck you. You just have to get out of her way.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 03:07 PM

helpme, you are doing great! Don't stop now. You are being kind, but firm. Remember, this is what SHE asked for, not you. Feel free to remind her of that next time, and to remind her that you are still open to R IF she is willing to fully commit back to the marriage.

And yes, DBing has a profound effect, most of the time, on the WAS. My W was the same way. She was cold, almost cruel, as long as I was holding on for dear life. As soon as I started to taking the same steps you took (GAL and detachment) she suddenly was showing emotion and expressing concern. Where was that before? Well, when she felt in 100% control she didn't need to be emotional and concerned. As soon as I started taking power back, her emotions and concern came pouring out. As did doubt, after he being so sure, that she wanted out of the marriage.

Denying seeing someone is fine at some point. But still be coy about where you are going and what you are doing. When she makes comments about you seeing someone, laugh it off and say "I am not seeing anyone." Remember, upbeat, cheerful, happy, fulfilled, pleased. But let her start the conversations, and then stick to validating her feelings. One of my favorites is "based on having just gone through it with you, if I were seeing someone I could understand how it would make you feel". Remember, do what works! Stop doing things that do not work.

Also, the doubts you expressed. "Is it driving her closer to him, etc". We all have those doubts. Prior to last week you weren't DBing....was she moving closer or further away from him? Do not let your doubts submarine your progress. We all come up with reasons that DBing can't work for us. Just remember, progress in DBing is hard fought. Losing ground is very easy to do. Each slip up could take weeks to overcome. So be as consistent as humanly possible in DBing. You are already seeing it yield fruit. DO you really think watching TV in the other room would prevent her from jumping over to WhatsApp and chatting up OM?
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 03:10 PM

One other thing, and remember this is MY perspective. You are not married. So you do not have the same boundaries that I would give to a married man with a WAS. In your case, there is nothing morally wrong with you seeing other women. (Note, I am not a fan of fornication (sex outside of marriage) so I am not advocating that. In fact, if you and I were friends IRL I would have been trying to convince you to marry your SO all along!). But the rules are a little different, in my opinion, when there is no marriage involved. Personally, I would still advise against it because of the complications it can raise, so stick to hanging out with male friends for now.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 04:27 PM

Thanks for the replies..

All makes sense.. Its hard though.. Tough love i suppose..

To be honest, i no longer recognise her.. On one hand i feel sympathy and pity - on the other i am fuming as i as soo sick of the "online" time she is spending on whatapp when she is at home with the kids. She never used to be like this, but since this has kicked off, she feels the need to spend her day on her phone talking to these 2 blokes and her mates: going on about how tough a time she is having and how bad her home life is... Its not worth the row, but i really just want to tell her - "WAKE UP.... You have 3 beautiful girls to cherish, yet your focus is complaining about this to whoever will listen.. "

At least i read this forum / reply / write these messages when at work or when the children are in bed... She will happily spend ages online without a thought. She claimed she had a headache yesterday afternoon and went upstairs - I couldnt be bothered to check too much, as it was kid time.. But every time i did check her status, she was online.. I had great fun with the girls while she sat on the bed messaging people for 45 minutes. And becuase she is so paranoid about her phone, she hides it upstairs... So every 10 minutes or so she "bobs" upstairs for 5 minutes ( obviosuly to check / reply ) , back down, 10 mins later, upstairs again...

Such a shame that something can change a person so much - not that she would ever admit it or see it.

But its things like this that make the detachment easy.... as its not the person i want to be with or loved.

Like my mate said last night, he stopped recognising his Ex wife once she went wayward. - lies, rewritten past etc. And when the fog lifted, she went the other way - as in desperate to reconcile.. she used to park outside of his house and ask where he was if his car wasnt there at midnight... It got so bad he changed his phone and blocked her on facebook...Used to feel sorry for him at the time - never thoght id be here lol.

But onward and upward smile

I have the majority of the stuff i need to sort the house sale out now, so will start that ball rolling tonight, if she is in a rational frame of mind.. That said, i dont expect much progress frown

thanks again.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
But its things like this that make the detachment easy.... as its not the person i want to be with or loved.


May I suggest that detachment isn't all that easy? If it were then her online activities would be having ZERO effect on you. You know when I knew I had properly detached? When I no longer felt the need to check up on her online activities through the methods that I had at my disposal. I suggest getting rid of anything that allows you to check her status. It is unhealthy and counterproductive.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 04:54 PM

Fair point Steve85... thanks for that smile
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/14/19 06:17 PM

Quote


Should I tell her that I went to the pub with my best mate last night and it wasn’t a female?
No, no, no!!!! She can text other guys (and most likely more than that) and explain it away but you go out with a friend and you're trying to comfort her?She will grab your balls and squeeze tight if you put them in her hands like this.

You are pro at this!

Quote

Does anybody here consider this whole 180 as emotional abuse / torture to my ex .. I had no issues with it initially but now she is noticing it, you can see its taking the toll - but is the consensus its ok to go distant, even if It hurts them ? or am I being soft ?

Not at all. She wants to talk and (most likely) sleep with other me right? That means you aren't sticking around. If there is emotional abuse, it's coming from her towards you. She is trying to get you to be in an open relationship and is playing your heartstrings to put you where she wants you. I love how strong you are to not give in. I was in such a bad spot when I started here. You are doing a great job, I can't say this enough. And I know it's hard on you, but you are able to think straight.

Quote
I suspect judging my the amount of time she is on her phone once I leave the house / room, this distancing is pushing her closer to the other guy.. Is this the norm with most people – just leave them to it ?


You aren't pushing her to the other guy. You've told her before that it is inappropriate. You even told one of the guys to piss off. You can't keep from chasing down every guy in town. She knows you won't stick around for this, right? And it shouldn't even have to be said either.

Quote
I remember reading on one of Sandis posts about her finding this forum and it being her wakeup – has anybody every actually mentioned the term “wayward fog” to their partner and let them do the rest ( ie don’t get into it, but give them a breadcrumb )
Nope. She'd probably either get mad at you or say you're overanalyzing this, you're rude, you're mean (typical wayward talk). If she was ready to work on her problems, she'd be doing it already.

Quote
But every time i did check her status, she was online..
It will be better for you to just stop checking/monitoring her. You will feel better, b/c you're letting go of something that will only bring you negative feelings.

Quote
To be honest, i no longer recognise her
I can't believe how good you are seeing things already. But don't be her man until she fully commits.

Quote
I have the majority of the stuff i need to sort the house sale out now, so will start that ball rolling tonight, if she is in a rational frame of mind.. That said, i dont expect much progress frown
Maybe sit tight on that. If she gets serious and brings it up, it sounds like you are prepared. So don't push things further unless you are actually wanting to separate from her.

Great job man!
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/15/19 09:17 AM

Thanks folks,

Update.. ( for those interesed ) - and i',m sure many can relate..

Discussions didnt go well last night.. She announced as soon as i walked in that she was going to a friends out.. I knew the second she said it she was lying ( getting good at spotting this )

She told me she had felt terrible all day becuase i was no longer the same guy i was last week and i had changed. She then wanted to discuss us / child arrangements when she moves out. I didnt want to go into it becuase the kids were there and i wanted to play with them. This annoyed her even more and she kept pushing it.

When i mentioned this has all happened because of her EA ( kids werent in the room ) she hit the roof and said she was taking the children to live with her mother.... I just walked away...

Managed to get the kids in bed without further incident, but then she wanted to sit down and discuss us...

Told her i wasnt having a conversation, as if she didnt like the way the conversatiot was going, or disagreed with me, she would threaten to take the kids to her mums.. OMG - Full U turn on an hour before - said she never said that, that would be impracticle ( where would they sleep ) - She would never do that unless things got really bad etc etc - totally denied the conversation an hour before..

Made it 100% clear there were only 2 people in a relationship and all options were with her, but i will no longer have a relationship with anybody who messages 2 guys daily. She denied this and said they were "just friends".. and started to list all ther other "friends" she messages daily and said am i saying should she not message these as well ( females ) - very immature response.

She denied deleting any messages from the 2nd guy ( know this is a lie ) and he is just a friend from the gym.

She then started attacking and bringing up arguments / inappropriate ( mental abuse as she puts it ) things i had said from this year to petty things from 5 years ago !

I reckon ive had said 10 bad / upsetting / hurtfull things in the 8 years ( i'm not perfect like i said ) . Its actually sad that such things get brought up, as they are petty / silly.. but in her head, its her reason we are seperating..

Told her i was past these discussions now as nothing would change and we needed to move forward. Emotional detachment came into it and she said she hadnt felt emmotionally attached to me since October. ( which was when this guy messaged her ).. She admitted that she did feel an emotional attachment to both of these guys she is messaging now..... So there is it - She is NOT having an emotional affair according to her - BUT is emotionally attached to these 2 guys she messages every day.. Suspect she would deny this if every asked again, but she said it...

She mentioned going to her friends again, and i know she was lying..

She then went out for 2 hours.. I didnt asked anything about it when she got back, as didnt want to appear interested... And i knew it would be lies anyway...

This is all new to me, but it is shocking how a person i have known and loved for 8 years can change so much in 6 months.. Even before all the rows over the child care / house move etc ( which i expected and i think it normal in most situations ) it was the lies, deceit and coldness.. Until August this year i trusted my ex partner with everything and anything...
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/15/19 10:42 AM

Read the valuation thread. When she pulls these "we have to talk" discussions listen and validate. Debating her will get you no where. You're not dealing with a rational creature right now.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/15/19 03:37 PM

Yep, read that validation link. Memorize a few good validating statements.

Be prepared for her to overplay your faults, rewrite history, and totally throw you under the bus. Don't get sucked in to her games and fight back, act from your values.

Also, it's important to remember the truth. I've heard so many lies that I nearly forgot what was true anymore. It's a popular political technique b/c it works. Just repeat a lie enough times that people think it's true.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/15/19 04:29 PM

HM- have you read DR yet? Please read it, it'll help you navigate these situations. Right now your W is two feet out the door. It's pointless to talk to her about anything other than the weather because she will lie, accuse, deny and get irate. If she pushes for an R talk then you do two things- listen and validate. That's it! Easy peasy, right? LOL! Yeah it's not easy, you're going to be very tempted to explain/ justify/ reason/ negotiate/ argue/ clarify. DON'T DO IT. She's on a journey (which may eventually circle back to you), the best way you can help her along that journey is to get out of the way. Anything and everything you do is akin to stepping in front of her and blocking her from that journey. That will just make her angry and frustrated. So get out of the way. Give her time and space, remove all pressure. Forget about being a great husband right now, she doesn't want that. Just be a great father.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/15/19 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
remove all pressure.


THIS IS THE KEY.

Before you do anything related to her or say anything to her, ask yourself: is this applying or removing pressure? If it is applying pressure don't do it or say it.

The less pressure you put on her the less she will be inclined to run the other direction.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 11:30 AM

Thanks for the advise so far people,

Next questions.. Which are going to sound odd, but its whats she would expect of me / our relationship in the past..

Three things have bobbed up this morning on the limited conversation i had when i walked out of the door..

1st - We have always watched a particular TV program together, which i download from the states ( its not shown in the UK ) - The new series has just started - Obviously i detached last week and havent been in the same room since i started posting here. Now i have the new episode of this ( she knows it was on TV ) , and she expects to watch it tonight.. So how do i handle this ? Watch it myself in the kids playroom ? - do i give her a copy for her to watch on her own in the main room ? or Say i couldnt get a copy yet to avoid looking like i am being nasty - then just watch myself when she is out on saturday night ? -

2nd - She told me her car has a "low Oil" warning. Again, no issue.. I would normally fix. There is a tub of oil in the garage.. Should i just do it.. Or again, play the tough love card and leave the oil by the garage door and tell her to sort?

3rd - Her car ECU warning light also came up on her car a week ago. I have fobbed her off a few times about looking at it, but she is on my case to sort it ASAP.. In the past, i would sort. I have the ECU diagnostic software and reader etc.. And i dont want her stranded if it breaks down, as this impacts on the children / school runs etc. I am inclinded to say take it to a garage, but feel she will just stick the bill on the credit card ( shared account at the moment and she needs to go into a bank branch to remove, which she wont do ) - Or it will just get her back up re the negotiations on house price and shared parenting.. So i'm kind of damded if i do / dont..

In a LET GO mindset, i feel i should say "sort these yourself" - But on the other hand, if my next door neighbour or somebody at work asked for my help on any of the 3 above, i would sort / try to sort, as its little skin of my nose..

thoughts

Thanks
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 01:19 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12

So how do i handle this ? Watch it myself in the kids playroom ? - do i give her a copy for her to watch on her own in the main room ? or Say i couldnt get a copy yet to avoid looking like i am being nasty - then just watch myself when she is out on saturday night ? -


Just tell her "I have the new XYZ show and plan on watching it X night, you're welcome to join if you wish." In DR Michele talks about how it's OK to ask a WAS along for something if you do it in such a way that's it's clear that you are going to do it whether or not she joins. IE, if she joins then fine, but if she doesn't then you go ahead and watch it anyway.

Quote
2nd - She told me her car has a "low Oil" warning. Again, no issue.. I would normally fix. There is a tub of oil in the garage.. Should i just do it.. Or again, play the tough love card and leave the oil by the garage door and tell her to sort?


Did she actually ask you to fix it or did she just say the warning is on? If she says something like this then respond "OK, let me know if you need help with that." Some would say just don't help her period, but personally I subscribe to the "keep the way home paved and smooth" philosophy when still living under the same roof. But don't just automatically do it, wait for her to ask for help.

Quote
3rd - Her car ECU warning light also came up on her car a week ago. I have fobbed her off a few times about looking at it, but she is on my case to sort it ASAP.. In the past, i would sort. I have the ECU diagnostic software and reader etc.. And i dont want her stranded if it breaks down, as this impacts on the children / school runs etc. I am inclinded to say take it to a garage, but feel she will just stick the bill on the credit card ( shared account at the moment and she needs to go into a bank branch to remove, which she wont do ) - Or it will just get her back up re the negotiations on house price and shared parenting.. So i'm kind of damded if i do / dont..


I'd say you are accurate there on all counts. Again if she's asking for help then I would do it. But you have to have no expectations that it'll change anything. Again it's about keeping the way home smooth and reminding her what she will be missing. Now if you separate then it would be a different matter on things like this.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 01:32 PM

I just went back and read your first post and may back down from some of what I just suggested. Is your GF actively engaged in an affair? You mentioned some flirty messages with a few different OM's but I'm not clear on if that's still ongoing. If so then sometimes it's best to go as dark as possible. Basically do nothing for them and have nothing to do with them. Otherwise you are just feeding their cake-eating.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 01:54 PM

Until Monday i dont think so and i have no reason to think that she has had a PA in any way- her routine hasnt changed from the Norm in the last few months.. Apart from going out more over xmas - but her friends are all the same and "tag" "tag" "tag" away on facebook.. So i know she is out drinking due to all the social media crap.

The EA is ongoing - Just daily whatsapps messaging - She bumped into "guy 1" on a night out and she speaks to the new guy "guy 2 " at the gym.. But i cant think of a time when she has had the chance to meet them. Just a lot of messaging and deletion... So i had zero reason to suspect anything physical until yesterday / today...

I think me going out this weekend and refusing the disclose where i was going was the straw that broke the camals back and she assumed i was seeing a girl.

She went out on monday night and told me she was seeing her friend - i knew she was lying and she is meeting this friend next week ( which is true ) .. I also clocked on monday night that her dirty knickers were at the top of the linen basket - She would normally change them the next morning after a shower - never in the evening . One tuesday morning she took her usual shower she threw another pair on top of them.. So she has changed her knickers on monday night before leaving - sorry to go into so much detail.. But its a fact and not usual. I wasnt even looking for this - just realised on monday night when i came to put my clothes in the linen basket and, and saw her knickers on top of everything..

Then this AM i checked her call records as my daughter was on her phone ( hence unlocked ) - ( i know its going against detachment ) and she called "guy 1" within minutes of leaving the house on monday night ( on the drive i suspect as it was 1 minute after she left the house ) - duration was 29 seconds.. So i'm assuming that she was letting him know she was on her way - She returned 2 hours later...

So unless she is playing her own mind games ( as she is careful usually to delete everything, so i do wonder why she didnt delete the call to him - unless in the excitement she overlooked it ) i suspect they met.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 02:16 PM

AS advice is good. However, tough love in dealing with WWs sometimes requires being tough.

1) I like AS' response here. But I also like downloading. Watching it. When she asks, "Hey did you ever DL the newest episode?" "Yes I did." "When are we watching it?" "I already did, but you are welcome to watch anytime you'd like,"

2) "My low oil light is on!' "That's not good, you should be sure to sort that out as soon as you can."

3) "My ECU light is on." "That might be something serious, you should probably take it in to get checked out."

helpme, if you worked for a company.....and they fired you, would you still answer their phonecalls? Would you still do the work they had been paying you for? Would you be at the company's beckon call?

Your W has fired you as her H. Yet she is still trying to get all of the benefits you provide as her H. She needs to understand what life with you is about.

If you are concerned about the credit cards and shared finances, speak to your attorney (I believe on your side of the pond that refer to it as solicitor) to see what is legal for you to do. Your goal should be to split finances as much as possible as soon as possible, but only do so with your attorney's guidance. Since you are not married this may be easier to do.

I'd suggest tough love in your case because she has such a short trigger with "I am taking the kids and leaving!". She is manipulating you. She is nice and polite when she wants something. And then mean and nasty when she doesn't get her way. You are dealing with a grown woman that has reverted to 14 year-old behavior. And therefore must be handled like a 14 year-old.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/16/19 02:17 PM

Also, when she questions you on "why aren't we watching it together anymore?" "Why aren't you taking care of my car anymore", it is perfectly fine to just tell her bluntly. You've fired me as your partner, all of that is things a partner in a committed relationship would handle.
Posted By: Accuray

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/17/19 10:28 PM

I like to use a "friendly coworker" standard. If a friendly coworker who you didn't know that well was asking you for a particular favor would you do it, or would it be over the line?

In the scenarios you note above, if you're already in the garage at some point and her car is there, I'd be willing to put some oil in it, but I wouldn't jump through hoops to do it on her timeline. If its actually your car, or you share joint ownership, or you're worried about the engine blowing up with your kids in the car, then I'd do it with some urgency. If adding oil doesn't address the problem, I wouldn't do any more, that's up to her to take it to a mechanic.

If I had an ECU reader and a friendly coworker asked me to read a check engine light code for them I'd probably do it. Would I then go home and google what it means and try to diagnose it? No, they are perfectly capable of doing that for themselves, so I'd stop at helping them out with my tool that they may not have.

Once again, if its a safety issue that will impact your assets or your kids, or you're worried she'll physically get hurt, then take a look.

So much of DB is subtle. You want to offer tough love, but you don't want to be overtly punishing or passive aggressive, and that requires your discretion. I probably wouldn't say something as blunt as "you've fired me as your partner". While that may be how you feel, it may also come across as a blaming/shaming statement and she's going to resent you for that.

You want your actions to say "I'm not impacted by you" versus "I'm angry at you" -- that's the key to the whole thing
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 09:39 AM

Thats a really good point Accuray..

We have had big rows this morning ( she noticed a had taken a picture of me and her down and got annoyed ) - Hence it ended in a full blown row about her disapearing on Monday night etc. Basically i went against all the advise ive read.

That said, after Monday night ( she is still lying saying she was at her friends ) i no longer want her back anyway. I cant prove anything physical happened, but i know she called him as soon as she left the house, i know she changed her knickers that evening and i know her car was parked up in a location where she would never normally leave a car.
That was always my point of no return. Even after the months of lies and deceit, i would have always tried to reconsile, but Monday crossed the line..

That said, i have go to live with this "stranger" now for another 3 months.. So i think the "friendly coworker" is probably the best way to go... just for our sanity / the children... So many thanks
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 10:34 AM

Found this site last night and found the article on Biased observations very interesting..

https://www.infidelityhelpgroup.com/2014/09/30/affair-fog-character-change/

I have been with my "ex" for 8 years.. And like i put in my original post, there were a couple of Red flags, going back to the very beginning of our relationship ( deleting messages off her ex boss ) . Then there were the deleted messages from the ex boyfriend 3 years in.. Did i ever feel threatened about the ex boyfriend messaging her.. No.. Because he worked away for months at a time and i think my ex knew he was being flirty, only after one thing and was never going to risk everything for him.. She deleted the messages, and played it down whenever he messaged... But i overlooked this as a risk to my relationship.. After all, he was just trying his luck... It was me she loved.
But lookiing back, maybe i misjudged my ex partners character. I have never deleted a message off another woman ( or anyone ) - becuase i have never needed to hide anything from her..

So the biased observation part on the link is very interesting..
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
Thats a really good point Accuray..

We have had big rows this morning ( she noticed a had taken a picture of me and her down and got annoyed ) - Hence it ended in a full blown row about her disapearing on Monday night etc. Basically i went against all the advise ive read.

That said, after Monday night ( she is still lying saying she was at her friends ) i no longer want her back anyway. I cant prove anything physical happened, but i know she called him as soon as she left the house, i know she changed her knickers that evening and i know her car was parked up in a location where she would never normally leave a car.
That was always my point of no return. Even after the months of lies and deceit, i would have always tried to reconsile, but Monday crossed the line..

That said, i have go to live with this "stranger" now for another 3 months.. So i think the "friendly coworker" is probably the best way to go... just for our sanity / the children... So many thanks


Some of the best advice I received here was to not make decisions when you are emotional. Obviously, all of this has you worked up, rightfully so, but deciding your marriage is over is a huge decision that you need to take time, calm down, and then figure out.

Also, lots of non-DBing going on. Checking on her knickers (I've been there), tracking her location (been there) and checking calls (been there) are all counter-productive. We as LBSs check on that stuff HOPING what we already know isn't true. And then we get our heart squashed by it and the WAS doesn't care. In fact, many of them are almost relieved that the hard part (the LBS finding out) is over and now they can move on with their new life.

Go reread the detachment thread. Read sandi's rule. Your name is helpme, but you have to take the learnings here and help yourself! Get strong. Be the best helpme you can be!
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
I cant prove anything physical happened, but i know she called him as soon as she left the house, i know she changed her knickers that evening and i know her car was parked up in a location where she would never normally leave a car.


Sounds to me like pretty solid proof she is actively engaging in an affair. So where you go from here is up to you. I would suggest assuming the worst and basing your actions on that. Even if you want to save the M you still need to treat her like a WW because that's what she is. Go dark. Also quit snooping, she's having an A, you know she is, so there's no point in snooping further.

Quote
Found this site last night and found the article on Biased observations very interesting..


Cadet or Job will probably delete that as outside links are against the rules. It's OK to discuss info you see on other sites, just don't post links.

Quote
I have been with my "ex" for 8 years.. And like i put in my original post, there were a couple of Red flags, going back to the very beginning of our relationship ( deleting messages off her ex boss ) . Then there were the deleted messages from the ex boyfriend 3 years in.. Did i ever feel threatened about the ex boyfriend messaging her.. No.. Because he worked away for months at a time and i think my ex knew he was being flirty, only after one thing and was never going to risk everything for him.. She deleted the messages, and played it down whenever he messaged... But i overlooked this as a risk to my relationship.. After all, he was just trying his luck... It was me she loved.
But lookiing back, maybe i misjudged my ex partners character.


Yeah, probably so. My brother was married for 7 or 8 years, his W was actively engaged in an affair (or affairs) nearly the entire marriage and he didn't know until she BD'd him. Until then he thought she was loyal. We often put blinders on to the red flags and explain them away as insignificant.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Sounds to me like pretty solid proof she is actively engaging in an affair. So where you go from here is up to you. I would suggest assuming the worst and basing your actions on that. Even if you want to save the M you still need to treat her like a WW because that's what she is. Go dark. Also quit snooping, she's having an A, you know she is, so there's no point in snooping further.


FYI he is not married, they were partners or bf/gf. She's been wayward still since before they broke up, and they obviously live together and have children.

Helpme, when did y'all break up?
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 04:35 PM

Hi,

thanks for the replies..

First issue was the guy she worked with - Saturday 4th August 2018.. Texts sent that night and next day. Found out accidently due to text from a friend. Discussed and agreed to move past on the 6th August - 1s councilling session the week after.. All good for 8 weeks ( really good ) minus 1 row in the middle.

9th October. Guy 1 text my partner asking if she could set his mate up with a friend of his. These messages carried on over the course of the week. I noticed on the thursday or Friday that she was distant ( 11th ot 12 ) and different. Spotted a message from him on the home screen of her phone at 4am on 14th October. Checked later that day and it was gone. Discussed the next day and she admitted she had messed up. Agreed to stop the deletion, but at that point, it was innocent... He messaged her and asked what was up after she reduced the messaging and she said we had argued over the messages etc... She ended up spending the next 3 days online to him, "because she couldnt talk to me at the time" apparently.. She knocked it on the head with him on the 18th and i also sent him a text asking him to back off.. At the time my partner was a total mess. Our youngest was sleeping for an hour a night max !..

We did the second council session on the 26th, but it enraged her. The counciler was great but put a lot of emphasis on the damage these messages do to relationships. She walked out and started to message him about setting his mate up - her reasoning... "To make it normal" - even though at this point she didnt even describe him as friend.

he replied telling her he didnt want the hassle ( ie because of my message ) - She then flew off at me for messaging him..

In the weeks that followed she called him to appologise for my messages, and they started to message more and more. He used to message her if she was out asking where she was / did she have a good night erc.. But she always tried to hide them / denied it and we had some days of getting back to normality. But it was never good.. ie we chatted and chilled, but i felt zero intamacy for her.. She even said at some point that she would always love me, but wasnt sure if she loved me like that anymore..

The crunch came on the 6th December. She spent 2 hours online to him but denied it. I checked her phone ( in front of her ) and there were no other messages ( to him or anyone ) , so she had obviously deleted them. She did admit he deletion, but again " we are just mates" . But she changed her lock code and i gave her the choice - Family or messaging this guy daily... She said she wouldnt be controlled and said she was happy to end it..

SInce then they message almost daily i suspect. I know on xmas day, she started messaging the minute i left the house..

Shes a different person now frown
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 05:33 PM

Quote
She said she wouldnt be controlled and said she was happy to end it..


Funny how that goes, you're being controlling by not wanting a cheater.

Quote
Shes a different person now frown


Unfortunately, this is true. I hope you continue your GAL and work to improve yourself. Who knows what she is going to do.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 06:07 PM

helpme, you cannot improve things, either for yourself or your marriage, until you let go, stop holding on so hard, and stop snooping.

I speak from experience here. For the first 8 weeks I couldn't control my snooping and I was a mess. Until you can control that you will continue to struggle.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/18/19 07:10 PM

I'll second what Steve said. Snooping shows you aren't detached, that you'll still let her hurt you or that she still has power over you. Snooping is just going to add to your stress level and only bring negatives. I know from experience man.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/03/19 05:38 PM

Hello again everybody,

It’s been a few months since i first posted on here. The feedback and replies from my initial posts were most helpful, especially as during that time I just couldn’t see / figure out what the heck was happening in my life or to my ex-partner. – Many thanks to those who replied..

I do check the forum most days and have commented on a few posts, but felt it time to update on my situation, along with a few reflections. This post will probably be long winded, but I hope that it may help another LBS, and hopefully help them realise there is no quick fix - and life does go on.

Quick update on what’s happened since my initial post.

Ex is now in relationship with EA3(she denies it still, but I know for sure) - The guy from the gym. Not sure if EA2 is still on the scene, as i think she liked the attention. I first read EA3 IMessage’s in mid-December, but did spot her deleting IMessage’s while we were still an item / very early December. Assumed it was EA2, but they usually exchanged WhatsApp messages ( I figured they were using iMessage as WhatsApp shows them both online). Ex has now admitted the iMessage’s were EA3 and that her and EA3 did first meet in mid-November and swap numbers in late November / early December - but they are "just friends"
EA2 was still around till the end of Jan, but his messages were just vulgar jokes that any self-respecting person would just delete.
The detachment efforts i made based on the advice on here ended the cake eating. Up until that point i think she was unsure what she wanted. Or wanted her fun but wanted a sure thing fall back.
Same old story really - She had me for security and money, EA2 who replied within seconds / gave her the attention but was a "Player" or EA3 who was respectful and nice, but a lot of baggage ( his wife died 6 weeks prior )
My detachment kind of forced the issue and I suspect these things can push a WW one way or another.
When i initially started to detach it was noticed, and it really upset her. But it didn’t stop her still messaging these guys.
I mentioned on post 1 - my ex was often irrational. 2 months of reflection have taught me that my Ex always acts on “emotion” and very rarely “rational” when it comes to decision making.
She went out and put a deposit on a small house (not big enough for our 3 children IMO) without even discussing finances with a mortgage advisor or working out what her share of the equity in our house was. But she did it regardless without a second thought.
If her EA3 wasn’t physical at that point, I’m 100% sure it turned that was a week after I started detaching.



As per my original post, i stopped recognising my EX months before. I thought it was bad pre detachment. When it turned PA, it was a whole new level of selfish attitude.
I am gobsmacked at how often she was out of the house. She would put the youngest to bed at 8pm and then say she was off out to meet a girlie mate.
Or she would sit outside in her car on the phone. I’ve lost track of how many times she tried to cause a row, just so she could say she was going out to get away from me.
She lied about her shift times and instead of returning at 8.30, came home at 10pm.. This changed to 11.45 / midnight a few weeks after it got physical.
Every other weekend would see her "out with the girls but staying my mums (i.e. stopping at his ) " - Coming back on Sunday looking like she hadn’t slept or showered.. Ratty with the kids and falling asleep on the sofa or "going for a lie down"
Kids started to notice. Eldest has twice asked me "why does mummy always go out now".. Our 5-year-old has told her twice now that "She hates her for always being nasty to Daddy"
Thankfully this chapter came to a close last weekend. She has gone and apart from discussing the children, I want nothing to do with her ever again (I’ll get to why in a minute)…

But in terms of my reflections on this, here goes.


ROSE TINTED SPECS

I read back to my original post and I think hmm. Its sums it all; up as I say it, but I probably left out a few facts / painted a better picture of my partner – After all, I came here looking for a “fix it solution” – Why slate the lady I love, on the internet. Hence a few things I mentioned were the truth, but toned down. And this would have continued I think – Because I loved my ex-partner, whatever she had done. or was doing. Unconditional love – Or Blind
4th March 2019 – 5pm. This was wakeup – Prior to this time, even after detachment, and her putting a deposit on a house, messaging, lying, sleeping with another guy, and lying to everybody about me (character assassination) I would have still worked on us, given the chance. I would have tried to find a way to justify to my family and friends why we were going to make a go of it…
On the 4th March I got a call saying my Grandad was in critical condition following a stroke and I needed to get to the hospital. At this point, all that my Mum and Dad knew (they were on their way there) was that he was critical - and that is all they could tell me. When I told my ex-partner I needed to get to the hospital ( she would need to look after the children), she calmly told me that was fine, but I needed to be back for 8.30pm, as she had plans – 4th March was a Monday, and her new “nip out for 2 hours to see a friend night” – She kept asking what was up with my Grandad, but as I didn’t know anything ( I was trying to leave at this point ) I couldn’t tell her – Her reply was “It wouldn’t surprise me if you are just making this thing about a stroke up so I can’t go out” – Yeap… In her wayward and twisted mind, she believed I would make up my Grandad has suffered a stroke to stop her having a quickie with her new bloke. As I left, she told me to make sure I was back for 8.45 at the latest! – By 8.45pm (I was still at the hospital) she calling me (I ignored) … at 9pm she is texting and calling me to find out where I was, so she can go. I walk in at 9.10pm and she is there waiting to go – Her priority is “get out to get laid”.

So that was it… Unconditional Love, to unconditional hate in the blink of an eye. I can no longer even look her in the eye. The impact was bye bye stupid specs that blinded me for so long.

In my first post I mentioned how our relationship was happy for the most part – Because I bent over backwards to accommodate somebody who emotionally blackmailed me to get her own way – When she wanted the new car, she threatened to end our relationship unless it happened. In 2017, when I refused to agree to finance her boob job, she refused to go on the booked family holiday – She told our 6-year-old daughter that mummy and the children were no longer going to Majorca because of Daddy – I used the word irrational in my first post – It was emotional – Emotional blackmail. And my solution was to find a sensible solution to ensure she was happy, but it didn’t bankrupt us etc. – The priority was to keep her happy. The cost of that was a loss of my own self-respect. And I look back and think “what a mug”


DETACHMENT

This is the one where my views differ from the veterans slightly. My partner noticed my detachment, but I did break one rule and keep checking her phone, until the 17th February.
I always suspected it was physical. I just needed the proof, and better still – to prove when all this started. Since she is telling everybody and anybody its all my fault for being controlling, I wanted to be able to prove what I suspected.
It also gave me vital insight into how I feel things will pan out. We have 60 /40 split on the children, but she isn’t happy – she wants 90 / 10. ( i.e. I see them every other weekend ) – A court wouldn’t go for this ( I can work flexible and provide a lovely environment for them ) – but I know from the messages that her and her family are planning logging if I am ever late and logging anything and everything they can to use against me.


RESPECT

This comes up a lot on the board and I think Sandi mentions that once the wayward loses the respect, they go hunting. Respect is a word my ex-partner used a lot, after I refused to put the boob job on finance – Even though I paid outright, it really bugged her. She accused me of being a controlling bully for not signing the finance agreement at the time (along with the blackmail) – It didn’t matter I was paying outright and saying interest payments on the finance - She used to continually bring the finance up (even after the operation) and say that I never respected her enough to support her and go guarantor on the finance. If this was mentioned once, it was mentioned 10 times. It even came up in counselling. Was this projection back at me? Did she lose respect for me for refusing to go guarantor? I don’t know, but it was certainly a bug bear on her part. Looking back there were a few other things that also got mentioned ( see Self improvement ).. But all in all, I don’t know what more I could have done apart from be her doormat.


GAL

Define GAL - It would have been nice to say to her “instead of you going out 5 nights in a row, it’s my turn” –Then go out, catchup with old mates, play tennis, spend more time on my car restoration etc – That didn’t happen.
I have been out once since the last post with a friend – By choice because my Life has become my children since January – I knew from 29th March, I would see them a lot less. So my life has been about them. When I was not at work, I was with my children. And I have had a great few months. At the park, in the garden, playing Lego – anything and everything I can think of to have fun and keep them off the iPad / tv ( ex loves to par off on the iPad ).
The solicitor also advised against going out / not focusing on the children. As this could be used against me.
So it may not be GAL as in going out loads etc, but it made me and the 3 children happy – and I have 100s of nice photos to show the fun we had. Moving forward, ive got plans starting from next week – Meeting old mate, Tennis club etc – But I was happy to spend the time with my Children while I could – She was out so often I had little choice – But it suited me – Less her, more them.
But I will never forget when my 7 year old asks why mummy is always out – But she knew her Dad was always there – Which is so rewarding in itself.


SELF IMPROVEMENT

First one kind of ties in with the Rose-tinted specs. Since this started, I can see how the ex-talks (shouts actually) at the children. It disgusts me. Yes the children are loud, yes they are messy – they are children!!!! – I don’t know if it’s the stress, the moving, frustration at not being with him (EA3) more etc – or the way she always was ( and I was too blind to see it ) – But the way she shouts at them shocks me ( and upsets me ) .. I hope I never talked to them like that and just didn’t see it – I’ll never know… But I know going forward (and how I have been since January) how to talk to the childrem. Even when naughty, I sit down and I explain. My eldest keeps saying “mummy always shouts” – Well that will never be me.

Other areas are actually areas the ex-did make comments on – I work out a lot, but never do a leg day – I hate leg days.. So legs are getting it.

And clothes – She used to spent hundred a month on clothes. I ignored my wardrobe and let her go crazy – time to look good again.

And finally – Don’t make the same mistake again – I need to make sure I don’t ignore them little reg flags (messages to ex married boss when we first met etc)



LIVE LIFE !!!!!!!.....

That’s it really – I came here looking for advise on how to snap the love of my life out of a midlife crisis – I wanted my lover to see sense and wake up –
It was me who finally woke up. I have 3 beautiful children and only 1 life – I know how quickly that life can vanish ( Grandad passed a few days ago – he never recovered from the stroke ) – For all the LBS – You cant control them – and don’t let them control you – Go out and LIVE LIFE – ENJOY IT..

Regards
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/11/19 03:26 PM

Hi Help, you posted this in Curtis's thread but I'm pasting it in yours to reply to you here:

Quote
AnotherStaner,

My Situation was very similar to curtis's and i find this comment interesting...

This is definetly what my ex was saying about how i never saw how unhappy she was... It was first months, then that year (2018) , then years, then since my youngeat was born ( 7 years ago ) - so she has been unhappy for 7 years yet had 2 more children with me during that period...

From your experience, have the WAW been unhappy for "far longer than that". Or is that just the justification for their actions ?

Not trying to thread hijack, but my ex and me got on well - or i thought we did, but now the rose tinted specs i wore are gone, i see she was always happy when she got what she desired.. The rows we had occured when my rational brain tried to reason with her "i want it now mentality"... She would accuse me of being controlling ( regardless of if we could afford it / good deal / bad deal etc ) and i would usually find a way / sensible solution to get her what she wanted. That would restore the status quo until the next time - and the texts exchanged / photos show happyness, regardless of her claims after BD.

Just interesting to hear thoughts on if the WAW was unhappy for a long time, or do some people just cross then line then use the unhappyness as an excuse.

thanks


It's hard to say how long she was really unhappy, but you have to factor in the "rewriting of history" that nearly all of them do. She may have really been unhappy for a few months, but she "remembers" being unhappy for far longer. Think of it this way, have you ever seen one of those hidden messages that's a mix of blue and red, and you can't tell what it says? Then you hold a red filter up in front of your eyes, which allows you to see only the blue and now you can read it? OK so imagine every good thing in your marriage is red and every bad thing is blue. It may have been 95% red and 5% blue. Well your wife has now slipped on a pair of red goggles, ALL she can remember is the 5% of bad stuff. She literally has blocked out the 95% of good stuff. The thing is, she is not lying about this. SHE REALLY DOES ONLY REMEMBER THE BAD STUFF. That's become her reality, that the M has been really bad for a really long time. Most LBS's try to counter this by bringing out pictures of good times and reminding the WAS that they've had a lot of fun together. The more you try to convince her she was happy, the more angry she gets that you are not hearing what she is saying. She becomes convinced you "don't get it" and never will, that you don't "understand" her.

So what do you do? Accept that this is how she remembers things right now. It can and will change with time, but for now this is how it is. Allow her to feel how she feels. If she brings it up then listen and validate. That doesn't mean you AGREE with her, you're just acknowledging that her feelings are real to her.

It is not uncommon for a WAS to eventually come out of the fog and actually explain that they don't understand what happened, they don't know why they could only remember the bad and not the good. But some of them have actually described it like a cloud, a fog, or a piece of fabric that is obstructing their view.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/11/19 03:49 PM

Just finished reading your update, wow! Sounds like your W may be a controlling, manipulative narcissist. Sometimes it's hard to tell but some of the stories like the one surrounding the boob job certainly point to that. Often the victim of a narcissist blames themselves, because narcissists are masters of laying on the guilt trips. It's not until they get away from the narcissist and "deprogram" themselves that they start seeing their relationship in a different light. Glad to hear you are feeling better about yourself!
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/15/19 02:49 PM

Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post the blue and red summary. Great explanation and a bang on the money. It funny really how they see things. Good example is the photobooks I do. Every year I would create a photo book of all the family photos from the past 12 months. 100 pages of probably 200 – 250 nice family pictures. I always did 2copies – one for my mum, one for her. Timing wasn’t really a factor – I just waited until PhotoBox had a good offer on 100 page books. My daughters love to get them out and look through. A few months back ( after PA with EA3 was in flow ) she sat down next to me and our youngest and started to complain about how crap that day was, and how she wasn’t happy on that photo etc .. Basically the whole of the 2017 photo book showed unhappy times on that day. It was odd.. Yet she was the one who came and sat down with me and the little one.

A few weeks back I walked into the house a few days before mother’s day with 3 books. I had done them because I needed to sort one for my mum, but as they had an offer on, figured I’d do two for me/ my girls as well . I figured just because she was leaving, why should I stop making the nice books. She assumed because she saw 3, one was for her. Nope.. I had that many nice family photos of our family in 2018 ( upto the BD ) that I filled 2 books. I had also left all the pictures of her in the 2 books, as I refused to rewrite the past years history just because she suddenly became unhappy / wayward.
I didn’t even discuss them with her and sat down with my girls as they eagerly went through the books to look at the pictures capturing our fun from the past year. Later than night I walked in on her looking at the 2 books. Her eyes had filled up when she looked though them and she said how lovely they were, and but she didn’t understand why I had left the pictures of her in them. Explained that I wasn’t going to rewrite a year of our family history . With tears in her eyes she said they showed some really happy times and it was a shame we were in this place. – This is the same person who has told me she hasn’t been happy for 7 years lol..

Re the Narcissist thing. Councillor said just before session 3 that she may suffer from some cluster B disorder. My understanding is that Narcissism falls under that. I just feel like a fool for putting up with it for so long.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/15/19 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
Hi,

Thanks for taking the time to post the blue and red summary. Great explanation and a bang on the money. It funny really how they see things. Good example is the photobooks I do. Every year I would create a photo book of all the family photos from the past 12 months. 100 pages of probably 200 – 250 nice family pictures. I always did 2copies – one for my mum, one for her. Timing wasn’t really a factor – I just waited until PhotoBox had a good offer on 100 page books. My daughters love to get them out and look through. A few months back ( after PA with EA3 was in flow ) she sat down next to me and our youngest and started to complain about how crap that day was, and how she wasn’t happy on that photo etc .. Basically the whole of the 2017 photo book showed unhappy times on that day. It was odd.. Yet she was the one who came and sat down with me and the little one.

A few weeks back I walked into the house a few days before mother’s day with 3 books. I had done them because I needed to sort one for my mum, but as they had an offer on, figured I’d do two for me/ my girls as well . I figured just because she was leaving, why should I stop making the nice books. She assumed because she saw 3, one was for her. Nope.. I had that many nice family photos of our family in 2018 ( upto the BD ) that I filled 2 books. I had also left all the pictures of her in the 2 books, as I refused to rewrite the past years history just because she suddenly became unhappy / wayward.
I didn’t even discuss them with her and sat down with my girls as they eagerly went through the books to look at the pictures capturing our fun from the past year. Later than night I walked in on her looking at the 2 books. Her eyes had filled up when she looked though them and she said how lovely they were, and but she didn’t understand why I had left the pictures of her in them. Explained that I wasn’t going to rewrite a year of our family history . With tears in her eyes she said they showed some really happy times and it was a shame we were in this place. – This is the same person who has told me she hasn’t been happy for 7 years lol..

Re the Narcissist thing. Councillor said just before session 3 that she may suffer from some cluster B disorder. My understanding is that Narcissism falls under that. I just feel like a fool for putting up with it for so long.


This is a good illustration for all of us. It shows just how skewed the WW's thinking is in regard to the truth. Dr. Phil routinely says that perception IS reality. And I believe that the WW has altered their perception in order to justify the reality they want. This is a perfect example of that. As the WW sees proof of past happiness, happiness she has said was non-existent, and has to reconcile that with what she has convinced herself of.

All waywards do this too. It is amazing how similar they behave, and how they all seem to follow the same script. Her tears were her trying to square the photos she was seeing to the lies she has been telling herself.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/25/19 10:26 AM


So as much as I hoped I could get on with my life and enjoy time with my Children the WW selfishness impacts on life…

As mentioned about, the ex-moved out into her new place at the end of March.

Last week I picked my children up and asked what they had been doing.

The eldest mentioned “Mr X” – “Hes mummys new friend”.

I didn’t want to get involved so asked nothing. My eldest just said “he has no hair and breaks his promises Daddy – when he was around last week he said he would play with us next time, but he wouldn’t play with us today”

So this was the second time they had met him – Considering before she left we agreed 6 months of a relationship before either of us introduced our children to new partners – That went out of the window in weeks..

Fast forward to this Tuesday..

I picked the children up from School and asked how their bank Holiday Monday was.. The Eldest replied with “Mr X was around all day and mummy and him just sat on the sofa talking. And Daddy, he slept over last nights in mummys bed”

Later that night she brought him up again ( I am purposely avoiding asking anything ) – “Daddy I hate him. He is an idiot. He never plays with us and when he is there him and mummy just sit and talk. He keeps asking me lots of questions but never listens to me”

Not mentioned this to the Ex, as she won’t listen and I planned to keep out of it..

I no longer have quantity time with my children, so my focus was quality – but frustrating to hear the children vent about their mum / Mr X

Last night came and I picked the children up from the ex’s.. Our middle child didn’t want to come with me and got really upset – I had to literally carry her to the car ( 5years old ) ( also upsetting for me to hear he say she didn’t want to come to my house )

She was fine once she left her mums and got in the car though.

I asked her while putting her to bed why she got upset. Her response “Because I see you lots, but don’t see mummy much” – I mentioned the fact she had spent all day on Monday / Monday night at her mums..

Her reply “But Mr X was there so I didn’t see mummy much as Mr X and mummy were talking lots. I don’t like him Daddy because he keeps putting his arm around mummy on the sofa”


Oh course the ex loved the fact that the middle child didn’t want to go to Daddy’s and I suspect will try to use it against me in court / custody.


As this board is full of LBS, how did they deal the WW and her attitude to the children.. There is ZERO point in having a conversation with her.. It made zero difference when we lived together.. She won’t believe the children said this stuff, as its not what she wants to hear. Its about her – Selfishness

Thoughts / advise on the best way to handle this?

Thanks
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/25/19 10:39 AM

She violated the most sacred vows two people can make to one another (marital) but you're surprised she didn't keep the 6 months before introducing to kids agreement? Believe NOTHING they say means NOTHING.

Let it go. You can't control her. So why try?
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/25/19 11:02 AM

Not suprised at all Steve..

I have no thoughts of controlling her. I can honestly say, if children were no in the equation i would not speak to her ever again.

It's not that simple when her actions impact on the children and they get upset over it.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 04/25/19 01:55 PM

I think your measuring should be the law. If she does something that violates the law then take action. If Mr. X turns out to be abusive to the kids, take action. These things are hard on kids, there is no way to avoid that. Every new BF for her or GF for you will be stressful for the kids. All you can do is be as stable and strong for your kids as you can be. Is their mom going to do things that they get upset over? Absolutely. You probably will too at some point.

Focus on what you can control.
Posted By: curtis7

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/25/19 03:08 AM

Help, thanks for stopping by to post on my sitch. Any update on yours?

You mentioned that everything for you changed for the better once your WW was gone from the home and contact was minimal. How so? Do you mean better for you with regards to detachment? I assume no improvement in your interaction with her, still limited to kid talk only?

Hang in there, keep making the most of your time quality with the kids!
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/25/19 12:38 PM

Curtis,

In my case, life moves on and I’m just making the most of what I have.

WW is still with OM, and this has affected my children. I don’t ask any questions, but he is there a lot, and I gather she ignores them when he is.

Little unsettling the other day when I pulled up at the WWs house to drop my girls off on a Sunday night at 7pm ( WW hadn’t seen them since Friday AM ) and OMs car was there. My Eldest ( 7 ) saw the car and said “oh xxx is here again” – To which my middle daughter ( 5) replied “I really want to kill him.. She then told my eldest that they could smash his head with a stick because she hates him”.. And if she killed him mummy and daddy could get married. Eldest then chipped in said she hates it when he is there.. I was literally dropping them off at this point and didn’t know what to say / how to respond.. So said nothing. I don’t mention their mum / him to my girls and never ask about homelife, but it is interesting how much children pick up on and process.. Not mentioned to the WW as there is no point.. She would turn it on me.

Whatever happened had an impact on my 5 year old, as WW rang me the next day accusing me of being a crap dad for not realising she was poorly as she wasn’t right when she got home.. Nose bleeds and wouldn’t sleep. I refused to get into it, didn’t mention the comments daughter had made about the OM and stated the fact that she was in high spirits when she was with me an hour before.. then sent WW a WhatsApp picture of my 5 year old smiling with her cousin 43 minutes prior to the 7pm drop-off.. That ended the conversation / accusations. I suspect that my 5 years old got worked up / upset with him being there, but again its out of my control.

Met the OM for the first time the other day.. I say met – I dropped my youngest off at 8.30am before taking the other 2 to school and he was there, so he came out with WW and said Hi to me.. I just said hi back.. Again, I don’t blame this guy for this Sitch, so left them to it..

Also found out that the WW went out on Saturday for a girls night and left OM to babysit the youngest for the night.

Re your question about how it gets better for detachment. You just crack on with life and enjoy what you can control. While my WW was living in our home, I saw her every day - there are the lies, the deceit, the sneaking about, the nastiness – Her frustrations that she was stuck in a house with me, but wanted to be with him. There was never any nice conversation.. Just a desperation on her part to escape ( coupled with the stress of buying a house, and she doesn’t handle stress well )

Once the WW was gone, you see it less and begin to stop even thinking about it. I can honestly say if it weren’t for the children, I would never see my WW again and block all types of communication. Re my attitude towards the WW and how I interact.. my thought process is to think of her as just another parent in the kids playground who you have heard nasty rumours about ( for arguments sake, let’s say a thief or petty drug dealer) .. i.e. consensus is they aren’t a nice person… With this thought process, its easy to apply to day to day interactions. If I was dropping my children off at school, I would say hi to any parent who acknowledges me, even a thief / dealer. Would I strike up a conversation with a thief or drug dealer… Hell no never.. Would I want a thief or drug dealer stepping into my house.. Not a chance. Thinking like this makes it easier to keep the conversation to a minimum and stops the past “nice” memories from clouding judgment and restrains me from striking up normal conversation like she wants ( I’ll come to that in a sec ) - . In my eyes this isn’t a nice person I am speaking to here. My partner of 8 years is gone.. Ive seen made examples on the board – “on holiday, in a coma, dead” – either way, I don’t know her.. All’s that’s left is a selfish lying and deceitful individual.. So I will treat it as such – ie polite but I have no intention of being what we were..

As for me.. I’m making the most of the free time when I am not with the girls. I have 2 classic cars that have been neglected / gathering dust for years ( since I met the WW ).. So I’ve built a spray booth in my garage, and the plan is to get these on the road. I’ve done a lot of jobs in the house.. I painted the girls bedrooms a few weeks back, so they love them. Garden and exterior are well maintained now and look smart. I have always done the “gym” thing, but really I just maintained to keep off the middle age spread… Gone were the days of getting bigger and I got complaisant when I got with the WW.. Never Fat or out of shape, but never focused . I’ve started to watch my diet and increased my protein intake from 80g to 240gs a day, so seem good improvements there in 4 weeks.
I have also changed back to me before the WW.. Lots of new clothes ( nothing expensive, but new ) , always wear nice aftershave, haircut every 4 weeks, Car is always clean and tidy etc – I now have time for this, and I don’t have her spending killing the bank account.

My main enjoyment though is my girls. I will be honest and say they are very hard work and mischievous. My ex never really liked to do much as a family as she found it stressful ( her stress boundaries were at a different scale to mine ) – an example is making pizza from scratch – that sent her over the edge once because of the mess of the dough. Or on Halloween.. Doing the pumpkin was “stress” because of the mess it left on the table before it got cleaned. Trips to the local park were ok.. Trips further afield in the car rarely happened as she didn’t like the girls arguing / being kids in the car. It stressed her out, hence she never wanted to do these things.. Holidays were a sore subject and she dreaded them. Looking back, she lay on the lounge sun lounger for the majority while I was in the pool. So two of my girls are on cloud 9, as we are doing loads of stuff together and lots of day trips. My 5 year old is fine once she is out with us, and enjoys herself - but has no enthusiasm to go anywhere a lot of the time, as she just wants to “watch TV”.. This is a serious problem in my opinion, but that’s all she does at her mums house.. So I’m trying to figure out how to handle this. It also frustrates the other 2 as they just want to go out for the day and they love coming to dads and doing things as a change from “the TV” which they get at their mums. I took them to Wales for a week in May and they loved it and we have done a couple of day trips to the beach since then.. So they are happy girls – Although they are becoming addicted to 2p slot machines. Again, what I find interesting is perceptions even at a young age.. My youngest ( 2 nearly 3 ) asked me the other day why daddy takes them to places but mummy doesn’t.


Back to the WW like I mentioned above. The fact I keep any correspondence to a minimum obviously frustrates her, but at the same time gives her nothing to argue about or try and use against me. This board has taught me a lot, especially about how to handle my WW.. So I don’t give in inch.
I keep texts to a bare minimum and only reply to what I consider valid questions that warrant a reply. Over the last 20 messages, 16 are her, 4 are my replies.. I tend just to ignore anything unless it’s a valid child related question, that’s actually necessary / relevant. She often texts asking “ are the girls ok” on my weekends, to which I ignore. If there was an issue, I would let her know. So again, in my eyes its unneeded small talk, which I have no intention of getting into. Again, I know this frustrates her, but If I’m with my girls, why would I waste my quality time replying to her.

Re her attitude to me - When she first moved out, it was weird.. she kept asking me to facetime the children on her nights, but would try and spend more time chatting to me than my children. I don’t give her that chance now. When she comes around to collect the girls there is ALWAYS a compliment which I totally ignore ( she is always left on the door step ).. She always has something to say – “ooh your house looks spotless” – “is that a new t shirt, its lovely” – “hmm you smell really nice.. is that a new aftershave?” – “you’ve had your hair cut, it looks nice” – “The plants in the front garden look beautiful in bloom” – etc…. I always ignore what she says, and I know It annoys her, as she often says “did you not hear me, I said xxx”
This is the norm now. On Saturday she told me how well the T shirt I was wearing fitted me – I ignored.. So I got “did you not hear me.. I was just saying how well that t-shirt fits you” – On Sunday she commented that I was wearing that new aftershave that she liked – totally ignored her on both occasions.
She also constantly asks me if I would like to “facetime” tonight.. even on days when I have seen my girls ( i.e. they leave mine at 10am on the Saturday morning) . Wondering if this is her checking what I am doing in the evenings.
Maybe she is just being nice, maybe she just wants to be civil, maybe it’s a temp check.. I’d rather she just got the girls and went TBH. – Maybe the Vets have an opinion on this ?

But like I said in my previous post, the best thing to come out of all of this is the quality time with my girls and the things that I have learnt / learning on this new journey.
Sandi posted about WW / WAW / MLC in another post and mentioned the heart hardening. My WW made very emotional decisions / demands. As a partner ( I highlighted this I my initial post ) I always pointed out why the emotional decision was not logical / practical / sensible. Reading up on this, I suspect my lack of validation and pointing out the logic instead had an impact on her heart / feelings towards me, regardless of if my intentions were always for the good of the family. – I need to remember this in a future relationship.
The biggest learning curve is how to be that better father. I may have not chosen this route, but I will make the most of it, and ensure I don’t make the mistakes the WW is making. The girls will never see me in bed with another woman a week after I introduce them, the girls will have quality time with me and not “me and my partner while I ignore them” and I won’t spend my time with them glued to the phone, when with them.. Even if I meet somebody eventually, kids come first.
Red flags are another big thing for me. I mentioned this in a reply to “Vik11” yesterday. I know from my own experience that when your head is “in love” rational goes out of the window. I also mentioned in my initial post - I ignored some old inappropriate messages to her boss – They were way before we got together, but in hindsight it showed she wasn’t the nice person she proclaimed to be… Her morals and mine differed and I ignored it due to the “new love buzz”. I wont make that mistake again, and I wont date a lady who ignores her own children to spend time with me.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/26/19 12:18 PM

Hi again,

looking for a little advice on how to handle a call from the WW..

As i mentioned on my last post, the split has affected my 5 year old more than the other 2. She just wants to watch TV and has just gone into her shell.. She really has changed from confident and outgoing last year.

WW has noticed this as well to a degree.

I was going to take all 3 of my girls to Majorca in a month for a week. Last night D5 said she wanted to stay with WW, but i havent seen WW to discuss..

Get a text this AM.

WW: Hiya, can we chat later tonight about girls, summer holidays and things.

Me: would rather text and not sure what you mean by "things"

WW: We need to discuss summer holidays. I also think *D5* can sense you dont like me and she keeps saying we arent friends. Its bothering her.

WW: You got 5 mins now

I didnt reply to the last 2 messages - so she called me anyway...

So in her mind we need to show the kids how we like each other and we are still friends. Her suggestion is that we start doing things as a family together !!!!! (yes WTF !!! ) - An example she gave was "lets all go the park together this weekend".. The girls will then see that we are friends and they will be happier.

I shot this down and point blank refused. Kept the conversation short and just said i didnt want to speak to her full stop - and at the park, and the girls would see this so it would solve nothing - and even if she came the park, i wouldnt be near her anyway, as when at the park i would be interacting with the girls... Not playing happy families with her .

She didnt want to accept this and says its what we should do - and she will call me tonight and discuss further.

I am clear in my mind about this.. I dont want to spend 10 seconds in her company, let alone a park trip.. BUT just mentioned to a person at work who says i need to think about my girls and do this for them.. Let them see mummy and daddy happy together etc.. This really doesnt sit well with me, as i think it will be all fake.

Anybody else been here? thoughts / suggestions?

thanks
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/26/19 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12

So in her mind we need to show the kids how we like each other and we are still friends. Her suggestion is that we start doing things as a family together !!!!! (yes WTF !!! ) - An example she gave was "lets all go the park together this weekend".. The girls will then see that we are friends and they will be happier.


First I will say that my XW and I continued to do things with the kids to make things easier on them. We kept doing joint birthday parties, and Christmases. We still do in fact. So I get where she is coming from, and it's not a bad idea -IF- both of you are comfortable with it. But it doesn't sound like you are, so I wouldn't force it.

Quote
I shot this down and point blank refused. Kept the conversation short and just said i didnt want to speak to her full stop - and at the park, and the girls would see this so it would solve nothing - and even if she came the park, i wouldnt be near her anyway, as when at the park i would be interacting with the girls... Not playing happy families with her . She didnt want to accept this and says its what we should do - and she will call me tonight and discuss further.


When she calls then tell her it's not an option, but that you think the kids should get some counseling. This really isn't something you can force. If you can't stand being around her then as you say, the kids are going to sense that if you try to force it and the whole thing will do more harm than good.

Quote
I am clear in my mind about this.. I dont want to spend 10 seconds in her company, let alone a park trip.. BUT just mentioned to a person at work who says i need to think about my girls and do this for them.. Let them see mummy and daddy happy together etc.. This really doesnt sit well with me, as i think it will be all fake.


Follow your heart on this. If you feel it won't work then I can almost guarantee that it won't.
Posted By: curtis7

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/26/19 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
WW is still with OM, and this has affected my children. I don’t ask any questions, but he is there a lot, and I gather she ignores them when he is.

Eldest then chipped in said she hates it when he is there.. I was literally dropping them off at this point and didn’t know what to say / how to respond.. So said nothing. I don’t mention their mum / him to my girls and never ask about homelife, but it is interesting how much children pick up on and process.. Not mentioned to the WW as there is no point.. She would turn it on me.

Met the OM for the first time the other day.. Again, I don’t blame this guy for this Sitch, so left them to it. Also found out that the WW went out on Saturday for a girls night and left OM to babysit the youngest for the night.

My 5 year old is fine once she is out with us, and enjoys herself - but has no enthusiasm to go anywhere a lot of the time, as she just wants to “watch TV”.. This is a serious problem in my opinion, but that’s all she does at her mums house.. So I’m trying to figure out how to handle this. It also frustrates the other 2 as they just want to go out for the day and they love coming to dads and doing things as a change from “the TV” which they get at their mums.

...the girls will have quality time with me and not “me and my partner while I ignore them” and I won’t spend my time with them glued to the phone, when with them.. Even if I meet somebody eventually, kids come first. I wont make that mistake again, and I wont date a lady who ignores her own children to spend time with me.

Help,

Thanks for posting an update. You are being a great father to your girls and they will remember these rough times in their life forever. You were the strong parent that gave them the attention and support they needed. You certainly have your priorities in order.

My kids are being affected by WW and OM too, although she doesn’t bring him around when they are with her, she has a tendency to neglect the kids, puts them in front of the TV all night and is glued to her phone with OM. Kids are intuitive and they feel it. I would have a hard time encountering OM, you may not blame him; however he is a party to tearing apart a family. No decent human being encroaches on that. I would be furious if WW left my kids with OM.

I tried to highlight the impact to my WW once on the texting around the kids, she just lashed back. It is counter productive to try to get them to see the error of their ways in their selfish state of mind and inability to appreciate rational thought.

My D4 also only wants to watch TV, all she knows from being with W. I attempt to combat this by getting her to play games with S8 and I, setting up artwork projects, taking them to the park, or going in the pool. It’s helped curtail TV time, but still a work in progress. Kids love it at my place, so much more to do and a ton more attention from the parent. They may eventually rebel on going to W’s house.

I completely agree with your views on the importance of kids with your next partner. Monitor that closely to ensure your values align. I also am not a fan of phone addictions, so that is a big red flag for me.

Wishing you the best!
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/27/19 12:47 PM

AS,

thanks for your input. I decided not to speak to her last night and have decided i won't be doing family things with her. My girls are my family now and she chose to walk away to her OM. I dont see why she should get to pick and chose what "family" stuff she wants to do. Birthday parties are a bit different, and i will attend these.. Things like "family" time at the park dont fit well with my mindset. She made her bed, and i always remember her saying "oh the girls will be fine once we seperate" - maybe reality as hit, that these things do impact on children.

The ironic thing is all this is she has done excatly what her father did to her family when she was 3, right down to moving the OW into the house weeks after he moved away from her mum. It has always affected her and her first memories are of the day her dad walked out on her mum and her mum was crying and begging him to stay. She always reflects back on how she cried on the stairs and its the earliest memory she had.. So says " the girls will be fine" just shows what she forgets / choses to ignore.

Curtis,

Originally Posted by curtis7

I would have a hard time encountering OM, you may not blame him; however he is a party to tearing apart a family. No decent human being encroaches on that. I would be furious if WW left my kids with OM.


I think this varies on each person and situation.

In my case, there are a few things which make me think he is just a pawn in this.

Since she went WW she only spoke lies - like most WWs. Not just to me, to everybody she knew.. Self preservation is key. I know she lied to her mum about what the MC said and messages to OM1 and OM2. I know she lied to all her friends. I know from texts that they exchanged that she lied continually to the OM3 when they started messaging.

When we came to sign the seperation agreement, she refused based on the date we seperated ( 8th December 2018 ) - she point blank refused and demanded i change this to the end of October. She was messageing OM2 in October and met / exchanged numbers with OM3 ( with now ) in early November 2018 - His wife had died on the 31st October 2018 and they were messaging 2 weeks later ! I suspect he was in a bad place, and she probably told him she was single. I cant think of any other reason why she would demand to change the seperation document date ( ie in case he managed to see it and thought, hmmm... she told me she was single in November )

I also know she was messaging him through December slating me etc, but at the same time cake eating and telling me how we need to make it work.

I think her personality also has a lot to do with it.

Like i mentioned on my initial post, before our 3rd and final trip to the MC, the MC called me to dicuss a few things / get and update and mentioned that my WW showed cluster B disorder traits. i started to look into it and i'm sure she has either vunerable narsasism or Borderline PD.

How he is feeling now, is how she made me feel 8 years ago. Again, if you read my inital post (i hadn't read up on BPD at that point i dont think ) i mentioned how we fell in love very quickly. I have also mentioned in another post how i ignored red flags.. I was totally love bombed, and it was totally out of character for me! - She did my gym induction when i joined a new Gym and by the time i'd got to work 20 mins later, she had friend requested me on facebook.. I asked her put a few days later and WW messaged me hundreds of times over the following weeks / months.. She showered me with attention, amazing porn sex and love - and gave me a key to her house less than 2 weeks after meeting her. I stayed in my own house approx 5 times before i rented it out 6 months later from the day i got a key to WWs. 3 - 4 months after out first date i got "i need to tell you something.. the pill failed... i'm pregnant"

Even as i read what i had wrote, i cringe.. It isnt me and the "me" from 8 years ago was a very confident, sensible and rational "Alpha" bloke. I had morals and values, yet ignored bright red flags..

I have kind of gone track on my reply, but the principle is the same... I know how this OM3 must be feeling. His wife has just died and he now has a fit and attractive lady with big fake boobs giving him porn star sex and telling him how amazing he is. At this point he probably believes every lie she told him, and has no idea of the lies.. So i cant blame him for being blinded by her - As i was as well.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/27/19 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by helpme12
I decided not to speak to her last night and have decided i won't be doing family things with her. My girls are my family now and she chose to walk away to her OM. I dont see why she should get to pick and chose what "family" stuff she wants to do.


She's got to learn that she can't make demands of you anymore, she gave up that "right" when she walked out on you.

Quote
Birthday parties are a bit different, and i will attend these.. Things like "family" time at the park dont fit well with my mindset.


I agree, birthdays with a group are much different than playing "pretend family" at the park.

Originally Posted by curtis7
I would have a hard time encountering OM, you may not blame him; however he is a party to tearing apart a family. No decent human being encroaches on that.


You're right, but that's for the WAS to deal with. She's setting up shop with someone who is perfectly willing to mess around with a married woman, so she's fooling herself if she thinks he has any loyalty to her. It's just a matter of time before he's messing around with someone else on her. Sometimes that's not the case and they build a lasting relationship, but based on what I've seen over the years I'd say a WAS/OM relationship has about a 5% chance of lasting much over a year.
Posted By: ovrrnbw

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/30/20 11:11 PM

I'm bumping your thread because I want to know what kind of car you're buying this weekend. I think that is update worthy.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/31/20 11:28 AM

Wow..

I never expected this thread to be bumped.

So to answer your question.. I’ve a lovely 600 mile round trip planned to purchase an Impreza RB 320… Not to everyone’s taste, but a car I have always wanted ( I already own an Impreza RB 5 ) – both of these are limited edition Impreza’s in the UK..

They dropped in value a few years back but WAW wouldn’t entertain another car… These are shooting back up in value ( I’m paying £5000 more than I would have in 2014 ), so want one before they get to silly silly money..

Scenes as I’m back commenting on my own post, ( I tend to comment on other posts but never intended to resurrect this one - I genuinely feel like I was a different person who wrote some of this stuff.. I never intended on updating this thread, as it was a different time and definitely a different life. ) I’ll add an update

Life is going great. Like really great

I’ve been at the same company for 19 years, and a staff member ( she’s been here 6 years ) commented the other day how I am a different person now compared to how I was for the last 6 years. Another staff member who has known me for the 19 years said “actually he’s not , he’s just back to how he was before he met WAW”

My own mother has commented on how she is so happy that me and WAW separated - “you became a different person when you got together and were never really happy”

So when I say great, I feel like I did when I was 30 before I met the WAW. The only added bonus now is my children into the mix.

I think the treat of the car this weekend will be the icing on the cake 😊 apart from the silly MPG and extortionate road tax.

I have changed a lot in the past 8 months.. well not so much changed, just gone back to how I was before I met WAW and then slid into that provider roll.

And on reflection I think that’s what I became, which didn’t aid my situation..

I became complaisant compared to the me in 2010 – Less gym time, same old clothes, same old routine.. Not attractive qualities

My mindset now is back to 2010 – yes I provide for my children, but the focus is on me, my children and having fun.

As for the WAW – she still trying to use the kids as leverage but i refuse to speak to her apart from hi and bye on drop-offs.. Everything is done over txt and she still try’s to push the boundaries – but I stay strong, which usually sees her make random threats.. But they hold no weight and I just ignore.

No doubt she is Cluster B – Either BPD or NPD -maybe a bit of both – But at least I understand why things were the way they were for 8 years.

She broke down like a baby in November when she told me she had made a parents evening appointment for us – I just said Id booked my own slot with the teachers as I wouldn’t be going with her.

Her and OM3 broke up ( I actually guessed because she started to harass me over txt multiple times a day with random stuff ) in October. Sounds odd to write, but I wished they hadn’t as she suddenly wanted to see the kids more ( she often asked me to have them on extra days )

Mutual friend told me a few weeks back that they are trying to make it work again – which suits me as she has already asked me to have the children for an extra weekend in March… I’m indifferent on it really – Which again is a 180 to 12 months ago. I just want to be left in peace – Ironic really – 12 months ago I wanted that magic bullet to fix this – now I just want her to leave me in peace.

I came here as a typical provider – the same as so many other LBS – looking for a way to fix the situation.. Typical Mr nice guy…

With the help of the Vets on here, reading ‘no more Mr Nice Guy’ and ‘Dads starting over’ site I am back to the guy I used to be…

I dress well, gym dedication has paid off, and I smell nice – I get lots of compliments – which all adds to the confidence.

I wont make the same mistakes again – I’ve leant a lot in the last 12 months and feel truly fortunate.

For any new LBS – Life is hell – your head is a mess – you can’t eat – cant sleep – We have all been there… BUT ….

Focus on you – drop the rope – move on with your life – Life has so much to offer – so go and enjoy it..

My username is from my favourite song – Mr Brightside – The Killers…

This sums me up

“Coming out of my cage
And I've been doing just fine
Gotta gotta be down
Because I want it all

Destiny is calling me
Open up my eager eyes
Cause I'm Mr. Brightside”
Posted By: Pommy99

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/31/20 12:05 PM

This is a great uplifting post. I haven’t read your whole thread - I’m not sure I can right now because no doubt it documents the pain of the last 12 months - and sometimes reading about other people’s pain intensifies my own, even though the advice and information is so valuable, as is not feeling alone in what I’m experiencing So reading your post, and hearing how you’ve come out the other side, is really uplifting for me right now and I’m so glad I’ve seen that this morning!

I’m torn between wanting the magic bullet that you describe, and admitting that perhaps too many years of bad marriage have happened and it’s time to be brave and move on. (I also think my WAH may have NPD (this is the opinion of my IC, and my family have picked up on several traits consistently over the years).).

I hope your new car brings you lots of fun. Takes me back to the days of going to the WRC - which is what I did when I was “me” ! Drive safe!
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/31/20 12:41 PM

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback

Originally Posted by Pommy99
This is a great uplifting post. I haven’t read your whole thread - I’m not sure I can right now because no doubt it documents the pain of the last 12 months


Fortunetly for me, there wasnt 12 months of pain. I posted a lot on my sitch when all this hit, but my mindset changed quickly - hence i having updated in 6 months. I think peoples mind sets differ - If you look at my comments to the Curtis thread, i want to shake this guy and say - no shout ... WAKE UP !!!

Reality hit the day my WAW accused me of making up a story about my grandads stroke, just to stop her seeing OM..

That was the end in my head. Decission was made, and out of principle i will never change that..

Originally Posted by Pommy99

I’m torn between wanting the magic bullet that you describe, and admitting that perhaps too many years of bad marriage have happened and it’s time to be brave and move on. (I also think my WAH may have NPD (this is the opinion of my IC, and my family have picked up on several traits consistently over the years).).


My honest take on this is - they saying love makes you blind... And as a man, you want to provide, to keep the family together, to support - no matter what... I believe i was blinded.

If you do read back on my initial post, i am carefull about what i write. I dont paint the true picture of things - people often comment about how "thats how the WAW was feeling at that moment" - I think the same applies to the LBS - at the initial point of posting, i loved my WAW and saw everything through rose tinted / love tinted glasses.

Once i woke up ( i do reference it i think - but i have no intention of reading about my old sitch - i find it embarassing that i lost soo much self respect ) after the Grandad stroke comments, everything changed. I started to look back and reflect on the emotional blackmail, the threats, all the lies - a lot of stuff that was always there ( even from early dating days ) which i chose to ignore.

I look at this situation as a learning curve - We go to school to get educated - with the hope that it will help us make a better life ( career etc ) . This was just another few years at WAW school - good times and bad - but i learnt a lot, and i will use what ive learnt to improve myself, and ensure i dont fall into the same traps again.

Respect is key
And never get complaisant

Originally Posted by Pommy99
Drive safe!


Safe smile - and Sideways ;-)

Posted By: IHCLACS

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 01/31/20 02:23 PM

^^^^ Love love love hearing self empowering stories, personal development and realizations like this.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 10:21 AM

So I never thought I’d actually resurrect his thread.

I know a lot of LBS use this site for the initial advice then disappear, where as I’ve found it an invaluable source of info for self-improvement.

One post that really got me thinking the other days was an excellent post from LH19 – and it really struck a cord… To the point where I re-read it last night and its got me thinking about respect and resentment.

The jist of the enlightening post was this.

Originally Posted by LH19

When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.

As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.

If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.

Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a years long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"

Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified (the coffee incident) and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, its an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.


If I’m honest, I rarely think about my old life now – I just want peace and hassle-free life to enjoy with my children. However, the post above did make me reflect back, as it touched upon one thing I could never really understand.
That was the loss of respect. I actually read my old post back and it was this comment that stuck out from April 2019

Originally Posted by MrBrside

RESPECT
This comes up a lot on the board and I think Sandi mentions that once the wayward loses the respect, they go hunting. Respect is a word my ex-partner used a lot, after I refused to put the boob job on finance – Even though I paid outright, it really bugged her. She accused me of being a controlling bully for not signing the finance agreement at the time (along with the blackmail) – It didn’t matter I was paying outright and saving interest payments on the finance - She used to continually bring the finance up (even after the operation) and say that I never respected her enough to support her and go guarantor on the finance. If this was mentioned once, it was mentioned 10 times. It even came up in counselling. Was this projection back at me? Did she lose respect for me for refusing to go guarantor? I don’t know, but it was certainly a bug bear on her part. Looking back there were a few other things that also got mentioned ( see Self improvement ).. But all in all, I don’t know what more I could have done apart from be her doormat.


As I have mentioned in numerous posts, over our 8 years, we got on well – But once may WW decided she wanted something, it would cause the row of all rows until she got it. Boob job, new car, new house, more clothes, botox etc
– I could even predict it coming, ie if we visited a friends house and they had a nice sofa, I knew I would be in for a “we need a new sofa” demand.

Me being the rational person would find a way to make it work, without putting us into debt. I would never do anything stupid that would cause financial hardship, but I would find a rational and sensible way to provide what she desired. If I felt it was unnecessary and a case of “keeping up with the jonses then I did fight my corner. This went on for years, with the status quo being restored until the next demand popped up.

A few months before we separated our neighbour’s got a house cleaner. My WW decided she wanted / needed a cleaner (she only worked 12 hours a week) . I told her we did not need a cleaner, but she was furious. Just after our separation I got a random message saying “Its all your fault we are like this – why didn’t you listen to me ! – why didn’t you let me have a cleaner when I wanted one”

So this brings me back to the 2 R words – Respect and Resentment.

I think its fair to say there was a lot of resentment there, that built up from every time I didn’t jump to her tune.

I’ll be honest and say it’s not just me she resented – I have seen her cut off several “best friends” after they did something to annoy her / said something she disliked – like literally overnight she disowned them.

She hated her father with a passion for leaving her mother when she was young – ie no birthday cards etc and always said if I proposed to her, I couldn’t ask his permission or she would say “no”.. So she carried a lot of resentment around with her.

I’m not that way inclined so actually find it a bit difficult to relate – even with the WW now, after infidelity, all the emotional blackmail and threats I don’t resent her – I just want an peaceful drama free life with my children, without her..

With her it seems to be the opposite with her. I have also touched upon the fact I believe her to be BPD / NPD which probably doesn’t help matters..

So my point being, after a very long winded post, - LH19 made posted a great insight into resentment and I’m curious as to what people think - is it always the loss of respect that breaks down boundaries and causes them to cheat ? .. Or can resentment be enough to push a person over the edge – does the resentment eventually cause a lack of respect ?

Opinions welcome ?
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:04 PM

MrB, I think that the problem is that people misinterpret what a lack of respect really means. For instance, your EX having to come to you every time she wanted to make a purchase built up a lack of respect towards you. You may think it was resentment, but I think the two really go hand in hand.

I know in my own sitch, after I took control of our finances back many many years ago (my W had setup auto payments on things resulting in a negative checking account and huge credits with a few of our billers), we ended up with a very similar dynamic as yours. My W would suggest we should get something, I would say yeay or nay. Over time this dynamic created a daddy-daughter relationship between my W and I. After Ring and piecing we went to a budget system. We allow so much for clothes, household items, etc. So much so that my W now feels comfortable making fairly large purchases without my thumbs up. She a couple of months back bought a fairly expensive floor cleaner without more than a mention that she had ordered it to me.

The control side of my still freaks out a little inside about this, but the last thing I want to go back to was that daddy-daughter dynamic we had between us before. So I allow her the leeway, within reason, to buy and order what she would like. I find it interesting that the less I worry about every penny of spending, the more discretionary spending money we have!

Back to the point, resentment to me leads to a lack of respect. And sometimes the WAS/WS doesn't even realize it themselves! My W on BD and shortly after it continued to say she had the utmost respect for me, especially as a provider and a wise finance guidance counselor. Yet her behavior was saying that she had no respect for me, largely because of resentments that had built up over time. So it isn't that they are separate as in either lack of respect or resentment can lead to a WS. I think the resentments build up to cause a lack of respect. Now that doesn't mean that is the case in every situation. Other things can cause a lack of respect, like be a beta male in the relationship, etc.
Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by MrBrside
So my point being, after a very long winded post, - LH19 made posted a great insight into resentment and I’m curious as to what people think - is it always the loss of respect that breaks down boundaries and causes them to cheat ? .. Or can resentment be enough to push a person over the edge – does the resentment eventually cause a lack of respect?


MrBrside you are becoming one of my favorite posters. To answer your question I think the two can be exclusive. I think you can resent someone and still respect them. I would argue in my case that my ex wife resented/resents me but still respected/respects me.

I think resentment can be enough to cause them to cheat. When resentment builds and you are dealing with a conflict avoidant divorce is usually the outcome. Resentment is the most toxic of all emotions to an intimate relationship.

One thing you can know for sure is that if you don’t try to address the resentment, it won’t go away by itself. Resentment is a cancer that metastasizes and eventually makes it impossible for a healthy relationship to survive.

Another problem is resentment can build from things you have no control over. For an example, it was brought to my attention by my counselor that because of our different personality traits (enneagram) it likely caused resentment. I have a "life of the party" trait and my ex is more introverted. Hence we would go to a party and everyone would happier to see me then her because of my ability to make people laugh. Ironically, it's one of the reasons she was attracted to me in the first place. But after 24 years it lost it's luster and it wasn't so funny anymore. I was talking to this divorced girl who is an introvert and her husband worked alone as a surveyor. Because he was alone all day when he came home he wanted to talk to somebody. Well because she was an introvert she wanted to be left alone to recharge after working all day. She resented him for wanting to talk after work. Sounds crazy right?

Lack of respect IMO is formed more in how a man handles their business. A man who can't make a decision. A man who doesn't follow through on his word. A man who is willing to share his wife with another man. A man who doesn't take care of his body, dress, grooming. A man who doesn't protect his family Etc.

Good topic!
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:13 PM

LH, I think it is approaching impossible to say someone respects you even if they cheat on you. Just my opinion.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:21 PM

Thanks for the input Steve,

Originally Posted by Steve85
MrB, I think that the problem is that people misinterpret what a lack of respect really means.


Hence why i thought i'd post. It was kind of the way my mind was thinking, but i was intreiged into other peoples thoughts.

Originally Posted by Steve85
For instance, your EX having to come to you every time she wanted to make a purchase built up a lack of respect towards you. You may think it was resentment, but I think the two really go hand in hand.


It was never every purchase. She could and did spend £1000 a month of random stuff on our paypal account and i didn't bat an eyelid. It was mainly the large purchases that would cause a debate - and more often than not, it wasnt that i didnt disagree with her, but more in the way she did no research / just wanted to buy / spend on a whim - because its what she wanted - and i want it now !


Originally Posted by Steve85

I know in my own sitch, after I took control of our finances back many many years ago (my W had setup auto payments on things resulting in a negative checking account and huge credits with a few of our billers), we ended up with a very similar dynamic as yours. My W would suggest we should get something, I would say yeay or nay. Over time this dynamic created a daddy-daughter relationship between my W and I.


Thats a fair way to look at it. Looking back, i always took control of the finances, as she never really understood them. This isn't meant to sound disrespectful about her, but she always struggled with numbers / legal documents / bills and although she lived on her own before she met me, she was clueless. I think one thing lacking in school today ( in the UK anyway ) is education on living costs etc. When i first moved in to her house i noticed her water meter bill was x3 what i was paying as a single person. I got her to query it and it turns out she was on a "crossed" meter so had been paying other houses water bills for years - she got a massive refund, but would hvae never noticed. Hence she was so was happy to leave me to it. I don't think she every once asked about anything in about 8 years - Until after DB, then it was a case of "your are controlling, you never let me do it etc" -

Originally Posted by steve85

Back to the point, resentment to me leads to a lack of respect. And sometimes the WAS/WS doesn't even realize it themselves! My W on BD and shortly after it continued to say she had the utmost respect for me, especially as a provider and a wise finance guidance counselor. Yet her behavior was saying that she had no respect for me, largely because of resentments that had built up over time. So it isn't that they are separate as in either lack of respect or resentment can lead to a WS. I think the resentments build up to cause a lack of respect. Now that doesn't mean that is the case in every situation. Other things can cause a lack of respect, like be a beta male in the relationship, etc.


sounds familair smile - cheers Steve.
Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
LH, I think it is approaching impossible to say someone respects you even if they cheat on you. Just my opinion.


I agree with you that's its tough but not impossible. You have never hid the fact on the board that you and your W have had affairs. Would you say you respect one another?
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Steve85
LH, I think it is approaching impossible to say someone respects you even if they cheat on you. Just my opinion.


I agree with you that's its tough but not impossible. You have never hid the fact on the board that you and your W have had affairs. Would you say you respect one another?


During the EAs, I would say no. For me my lack of respect was certainly pent up frustrations resulting in resentment. And I think the same for her. Her actions during her EA at the end of 2017 definitely showed a lack of respect since she was not willing to end it even after I discovered it and confronted. I certainly think that a WAS can still respect their LBS, but I think that a WS always has a lack of respect for the LBS.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by LH19


MrBrside you are becoming one of my favorite posters.



thanks - we are both very to the point lol.. Not sure Curtis would agree with you though lol smile

Originally Posted by LH19
To answer your question I think the two can be exclusive. I think you can resent someone and still respect them. I would argue in my case that my ex wife resented/resents me but still respected/respects me.


Interesting - hence the reason i bumped my post. I know my WW resents me - but again, she has mentioned the Respect word on 2 occassions - yet she cheated.. so its a tricky one.


Originally Posted by LH19

I think resentment can be enough to cause them to cheat. When resentment builds and you are dealing with a conflict avoidant divorce is usually the outcome. Resentment is the most toxic of all emotions to an intimate relationship.


Agree.. i suppose another way to look at it is like your annual pay review. The boss does not give you what you wanted / you feel you deserve - I often use the Y in the road reference - you can go left and get a new job, or you suck it up and carry on working - hopefully getting the reward / rise next year. I don't think going left and getting a new job means you don't respect the boss - you are just frustrated / resentfull you didn't get the pay rise - hence ( and most likely on a whim / frustration ) you look elsewhere. Is that much different that cheating.


Originally Posted by LH19

Because he was alone all day when he came home he wanted to talk to somebody. Well because she was an introvert she wanted to be left alone to recharge after working all day. She resented him for wanting to talk after work. Sounds crazy right?


My Ex just wanted to be left alone with a phone all night after looking after the childrenin the day - "to switch off" as she put it - i know how the surveyor felt lol. ironically, after years of just wanting to "switch off" once the WW mindset started she found the energy to stay out 5 nights a week leaving me with the children while she saw OM - even crazier !


Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
I certainly think that a WAS can still respect their LBS, but I think that a WS always has a lack of respect for the LBS.

I have read this three times and I think I need some clarification but I think it's what I meant about my ex.
Posted By: MrBrside

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Steve85
LH, I think it is approaching impossible to say someone respects you even if they cheat on you. Just my opinion.


I agree with you that's its tough but not impossible. You have never hid the fact on the board that you and your W have had affairs. Would you say you respect one another?


During the EAs, I would say no. For me my lack of respect was certainly pent up frustrations resulting in resentment. And I think the same for her. Her actions during her EA at the end of 2017 definitely showed a lack of respect since she was not willing to end it even after I discovered it and confronted. I certainly think that a WAS can still respect their LBS, but I think that a WS always has a lack of respect for the LBS.


interesting how mindsets work. I would never say i was resentful for long, but just before EA1 it did cross my mind to end it with the WW. I had gone though 6 weeks of her barely noticing me and just sitting on her phone every night. Now i know her mind was elsewhere. I think it was the holiday in Majorca that kind of got us temporarily back on track ( and she wasnt messaging / at work EA1) However, i never in all them 6 weeks or on previous occassions of her threats / emotional blackmails once felt the need to look elsewhere. My mindset just never functioned that way, yet hers obviosuly did.
Posted By: LH19

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by MrBrside
Interesting - hence the reason i bumped my post. I know my WW resents me - but again, she has mentioned the Respect word on 2 occassions - yet she cheated.. so its a tricky one.

There are so many things at play here and sometimes it just equates to the perfect storm. Attachments styles, hormones, chance opportunities, childhood issues the human brain in general. Studies show 40-49 year old human are the most unhappiest people on the planet.
Posted By: Steve85

Re: MLC partner ? opinions plz ? - long post apology - 06/08/20 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by MrBrside
Interesting - hence the reason i bumped my post. I know my WW resents me - but again, she has mentioned the Respect word on 2 occassions - yet she cheated.. so its a tricky one.

There are so many things at play here and sometimes it just equates to the perfect storm. Attachments styles, hormones, chance opportunities, childhood issues the human brain in general. Studies show 40-49 year old human are the most unhappiest people on the planet.


Agree 100%. Most affairs result from a confluence of factors.
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