CodaX2 - DivorceBusting.com

Link to my old thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2822016&page=11

You can't be saved by what it was, you can only be saved by what it is...

You can�t have two tales B, be serious...;)

I was waiting for your sitch title after �Coda�...why not some �allegro ma non troppo� as a reawakening?

I just feel so many friends struggling right now on here...one of my favorites verses for many of you this day:

So be strong and courageous! Do not be afraid and do not panic before them. For the Lord your God will personally go ahead of you. He will neither fail you nor abandon you.

Deuteronomy 31:6

-B

LOL...neffer...I was like "um, coda coda? double coda? crap I need another thread, thought I'd be done and dusted by now, but on I go...

X2 is lame and I've been away from my musical education too long to recall all the phrasing..."funeral dirge" maybe? LOL

Originally Posted by Sandi2

Women need to feel admiration for their H.

Saw this on Sandi's last post and it hit a nerve for me. I have a well paying job, lead many folks, BUT even with that to my W how I earned my living was not admirable to her versus other professions. Like I say something I felt from W for a long time that there wasn't much besides changing professions that I could have done to change her mind.

In the calculus of love between two people it always amazes me how some of the most random S88T can throw a kink in the works so to speak. Anyway...

Where�s the PMA B! I�m keeping �allegro ma non troppo� and progressing from there! You need to be there bro!

Sandi�s post was on the spot, as usual...

LOL...neffer I'm just messing around on the funeral deal. the longer I'm here, the more I think my already having been D'd once before provides me a greater level of insight than when I first arrived.

I lost once, only to be blessed greater than I could imagine, only to find myself on the losing end again...only to now wonder what good stuff lies ahead. a very strange place for me compared to so many on here.

and yes her post was. the shortest, simplest statements so many times have the greatest impact. I find myself cherry picking through much I read on here this days. so much that's good for me as I work to improve myself.

-B

Originally Posted by LH19

I didn't want to hijack the other thread but in 4 years being on this board, approximately 90% of the posters end up divorced. I remember for like a 2 year span everyone used Texhubby as the example, because he was the only one for years who prevented a divorce. The three years of limbo almost killed him though.

92% of people are terrible at sticking to DB because they don't have the discipline that it takes not to backslide and pursue. In many ways its like weight loss, if people were good at being self-disciplined everyone would be fit.

The fact that people have difficulty sticking to the program doesn't mean it doesn't work!

Acc

had a great meeting with my IC. short and sweet...I don't want her back :-)

it's a great feeling when you have your strength back!

Originally Posted by Accuray

The fact that people have difficulty sticking to the program doesn't mean it doesn't work!

No Acc I completely agree. It was more of a true statistical statement based on what another poster had posted.

Well met W to exchange D. She will be with W for Xmas. Not one single word nor look from W to me. Even the armies in WWII who were killing each other had some truce at least for Xmas. Oh well...

I will never understand the total silence.

Onward, Ballast!

Enjoy a great Christmas with family and/or friends! Find things to be grateful for and share the love of those close to you!

No matter the why. Through the heartbreak of being without my family tonight, another huge nail in the coffin has been driven in any love I may have had for her. Just ready for the new year and a new life without her. Our MR and family did not deserve to be discarded like it was worthless. I wish her peace, love and above all, happiness.

B

Originally Posted by ballast

No matter the why. Through the heartbreak of being without my family tonight, another huge nail in the coffin has been driven in any love I may have had for her. Just ready for the new year and a new life without her. Our MR and family did not deserve to be discarded like it was worthless. I wish her peace, love and above all, happiness.

B

Same here man. My WW keeps nailing away on the coffin of our MR. My desire for her and to R and even my attraction to her has significantly diminished because of her actions.

Funny thing is I set my relationship status to single on SM. I have it so it doesnt notify anyone. But since I did that, I have been getting an unreal amount of friend requests from some amazingly beautiful career women. I havent taken any steps to date or anything, but I know for a fact that I will have zero issues finding someone that values me.

We are MOAFWL and were M to some serious fools.

Originally Posted by ballast

No matter the why. Through the heartbreak of being without my family tonight, another huge nail in the coffin has been driven in any love I may have had for her. Just ready for the new year and a new life without her. Our MR and family did not deserve to be discarded like it was worthless. I wish her peace, love and above all, happiness.

B

This is how I"m feeling. This is tough. Hang in there. You are not alone.

D went back to W over the weekend. D and I had the best time during Christmas. I love her so much, but I HATE being a soon to be single Dad! Not the doing involved with it nor time with D, but the loss of D's family, the shared custody, the impact of all of this on D's life.

i don't care what happens with W. been there for a long time now. i do however continue to struggle about not blaming myself for her leaving. so much that i read online is always framed in the mold of "if the husband had been more aware/less ignorant of the signs/done this/that, wife wouldn't have left" it seems so much of what i read is that the husband must sacrifice extensively to whatever whims his W may have so that disrespect and resentment does not take seed in her mind/heart and she leaves. and those always end up saying "most guys have no idea what THAT is until it's too late". i just honestly don't think i want to play the game anymore. there are just too many negatives that outweigh the positive. just where i'm at these days.

i've never in my life been happy to see a year go, but 2018 leaving will be a blessing. 2019 will bring divorce, a new living arrangement, neither of my choosing, but i don't fear either. my prayers to all of you and a sincere thank you for the support you've given to me.

-B

We live, we learn B. Get back to reality now, present time. You are moving forward and it will get better. You know that.

My best thoughts go with you and your D. Count what you have. Then use your PMA, no need for the rest.

(((B)))

thank you neffer for your thoughts to me and my D, but respectfully I must disagree. Present time is full of D's crying, missing one parent as handed off to the other, back and forth, always missing one parent and/or the family she once knew. THAT pain is present time and will persist for the rest of her/our life. PMA in that reality I'm sorry my friend. And my W is fine with putting her needs over her child's needs.

The whole "it's better to have two happy parents than an unhappy marriage" who says the parent left behind is happy? what about the utter destruction wrought by the parent who left? the lives destroyed in the name of THEIR happiness?

all that I know is that I will be divorced and living somewhere else. that is all I know. I know I am blessed to have her. I was a terrible husband, had no clue on all the expectations women have in relationships and realize I need to stay away from them as I'd only fail again.

I'm sorry, I'm in a bad place right now. not over my W, I could care less what really happens to her. honestly not even concerned about myself. but what the idiocy/sham of what our MR was and how it's impacting my D, truly it kills me.

Sorry you're feeling down ballast, the holidays are hard.

Originally Posted by ballast

Present time is full of D's crying, missing one parent as handed off to the other, back and forth, always missing one parent and/or the family she once knew. THAT pain is present time and will persist for the rest of her/our life.

I've got three kids -- they are now 20, 18, and 14. They don't always miss one parent or the family they once knew, and they certainly don't cry when they go back and forth. That pain will not persist for the rest of her life or yours. In fact, they are very happy, healthy and well adjusted.

Kids are emotional sponges. If you're feeling down, they're going to pick up on it, even if you're doing your best to hide it. If there is strife between their parents, they're going to feel it and be impacted by it, that's for sure.

I've been divorced for over 4.5 years, with over 7.5 years since BD. At BD, my youngest was only 6 years old, first grade. She's now spent more of her life with us divorced than she did with us married and she's perfectly fine.

If you lead the life you want to lead, and find your way to happiness, it will carry over to your daughter. If you're happy and confident and unimpacted by handovers, eventually she will be too. Time heals all wounds ballast, both of you will be fine.

Acc

To speak to what Accuracy said.... my D happened when my daughter 6 months old. It was all she knew, however, she did cry during exchanges, but of course, that ended. but they don't always miss the other parent. My daughter is 11 now and transitions quite well, she's been away with her dad for a week, and she facetimes to see the dog, not me, lol. She brags to her friends about how she gets two Christmas. It's not an ideal situation, of course, but they don't suffer as much as you think as long as you keep a consistent warm loving parental environment for them. Think about it, there are parents who travel for work a lot. Kid's miss that parent. Some work a 12 hour day. Kids miss that parent.

My ex married his affair partner. I am now friendly with her, we all do things together and I made sure (took a while) to make sure my daughter's well being came first, and she sees all of us get along and knows she is our #1. And I think it is the best gift we could have given her in this mess. Because of that, she is a very well adjusted, bright, friendly, kind-hearted girl who does not live a life of pain.

Just be that rock for her, and she will be OK.

It will get better B. And you are moving forward. Keep moving man. Keep moving.

(((B)))

Acc�as always up front, thank you! I made it through Xmas Eve/Xmas totally alone. This whole year has been one constant kicking and yet I�ve endured. Don�t know what it is about New Year though�sitting here pouring salt in a still very open wound�again alone, amazing how silent a big house can be without the love of a family residing within it. Right now at least the crying of my D over what is transpiring is killing me. My W�s decision for her �happiness� is causing �whatever, not worth describing, I know she doesn�t give a s**t, but you know what I mean. Right now we have no co-parenting, no communication to speak of, but hey she�s happy so there�s that.

I am a whole man when with D, happy and confident almost as if this disaster of my w�s creation hasn�t occurred, but come exchanges�those kill me. Give me the toughest man who has to give up his children against his will and I�ll bring him to his knees. I don�t have the words to express how reprehensible, selfish and simply cruel I find my W�s decisions for her life. That's a vent btw...as I know it's her life, her choices, be d**ned with what I think of them. I have heard that time heals all wounds, I just really don�t know this time around. I think this 2nd divorce and the loss of time with my D is really going to do me in.

Ginger�thank you for your words of support. I know from friends and family that as kids get more into their early teens, ol� mom and dad become less important than in the sweet early years and for sure I can see my D doing the same bragging to her friends about 2 Christmas. :-). It�s just h**l right now. And yes when I get to complaining about the unfair�edness of my sitch, I recall the parents/children at St Jude�s or military deployed�I am very thankful and blessed for what I do have. It�s just�I so completely never thought I would EVER be in such a position in life�and I�m fighting it�stupidly, but fighting it nonetheless. This is my 2nd divorce to be. First W married affair partner and is already divorced from him. Given my amazingly crappy track record, I imagine current W #2, soon to be ex #2 will do the same and marry some unknown affair partner. I mean why not, let�s pile whatever additional misery we can on ol� B. I marvel at your ability to do things with your ex and her. I see no way presently for me to be able to do that. I feel I am D�s rock for sure, but dear lord am I but sooooo amazingly hollow inside.

Neffer�I love you for the encouragement you provide so many people here, but I struggle with the devastation brought on by my WW. And it is a fact she will have betrayed our vows, me, destroyed our family and yet I am to believe it will get better, she somehow gets a free pass from the Almighty for her selfishness and in her wake of destruction I�m left with PMA, keep moving forward, keep your chin up? Where is her judgement? What price/responsibility does she pay for ANY of this? Is she free to indulge her selfishness while the rest of us suffer terrible pain? I pray for you in your sitch Neffer�the absolute pain of loving someone so much and having them leave you perhaps for someone else�the contrast in how much you love/miss them vs how much you hate them for the pain they have inflicted�PMA just ain�t enough sometimes my friend.

You might enjoy reading through Squiggy's success story. It's not quite as long as some of the other success stories.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=56991&Number=2526632#Post2526632

Link to his first thread (I think he had about five.) After he and WW reconciled, he stuck around for a while, helping newcomers.

Sandi...just wanted to say thank you for the link to Squiggy's threads. I'm working my way through them now. Just journaling on some things that resonate with me in my sitch from his:

the talk about the house, how it represents us and our family. W does not ever want to come to the house. that an inanimate object has such a powerful negative effect on her really surprises me. I mean i get it on one level as far as memories and all, but to completely avoid it...that part I don't.

and the talk of her leaving anything that was a joint memory, yep anything to do with our marriage, house or us being a family was left. if her life were a book of chapters she is doing all that she can to try and completely erase the chapters of her life that involved she and I. personally i'm happy within myself that no matter what i've experienced in my life, i've kept all the chapters intact.

and the talk of his son asking his mommy why she didn't want their family together...my D at times has talked about this almost rhetorically and then in the most mature voice imaginable simply looks at me and says "this was her decision". truly blows my mind how insightful and mature D at such a young age can be sometimes.

the OM aspect...if I ever find out one of these days that there is an OM, then I'll know we're done for good. As Squiggy wrote: "I'm comfortably numb right now. It seems odd to me that having the A confirmed by first my son and then by W brought me a bit of peace. I don't need to wonder or second guess myself now. It does hurt, absolutely, but I'm mainly filled with a sadness for her. I truly do have a wonderful, beautiful, intelligent wife, and it pains me to see her go against her character and have an A. It is her choice, so be it." Also he wrote "I want to clarify the hopelessness I felt earlier. I don't feel hopeless about my changes. I don't feel hopeless about the changes in the R with my S5. I only feel that way in regards to WAW, and it mostly stems from the high potential of at least an EA." Yep, that describes my hopeless. Another good quote for my sitch currently "it feels like you are so far apart and the distance is insurmountable."

Your post at the end of his 1st thread regarding sex life, that hit home. Post-baby, for us it became very infrequent. As a guy post baby given her body image and the stress, I simply did not know how/when to approach her. It was not like in the dating days where we'd go out, drink a bit and things would just happen. Lack of communication on both our parts created the distance as for sure i was always attracted to her. W could not be free when it did occur. She was self concious of how she looked so it was very structured to cover her insecurities. It was not that she gave herself completely to our D, but rather how motherhood, responsibilities and her post baby body image affected her. is that PPD type stuff? honestly I don't know. And me...I was highly cautious of coming off as the horny, needy hubby lest I be seen as disrespectful/selfish when she was going through so much change AND she had just gone through the most amazing thing for both of our lives. Thing is perhaps I was overly cautious such that she interpreted my distance on that topic as me not being attracted to her anymore. Again this was simply not the case and open/honest communication could have done so much to address the issue. I read someone say on here that no matter what their WW thought, they realized that they had always acted with the best of intentions towards them and had they known how to be better, they would have been. That describes my feelings very well.

In my sitch on the completely impossible off chance that she wanted to R someday this quote from his W struck me "W: I understand you probably don't like me very much but this is one of the reasons i don't feel like you and i could make things work between us because it seems like its your way or no way. you told me you would be ore open with communication which is something we didn't have much of, but you haven't been open. you've actually been more distant since i've moved." Now "I" don't "think" in our MR i was a my way or no way type, but for sure we have basically zero communication these days, I mean barely enough for even topics regarding our daughter. I could see her feeling this way. Thing is though she wanted to leave, she wanted the space, she wanted to be away from me. When (though highly infrequently) she has wanted to talk to me, I have listened, validated and remained calm. Her decision to leave I believe has put the ball in her court when it comes to communication. I am simply trying to respect her wishes and do the best I can to move forward with my life. I guess that would be my simple honest response if she ever said such a thing.

As I say still working my way through his posts. This site is just a wealth of information/help for all of us and I thank you again for the suggested thread.

-B

B, much love and respect brother. Still praying for you a lot. Hang in there, it will get better.

Thank you Steve, I definitely appreciate it! New Year's Eve I intentionally went to bed early. In all my years I've never look forward to the passing of any given year, but this time I was ready to get rid of 2018 asap! my close friend who knows my sitch was wishing me a happy new year...with 2019 being certain divorce and other life changes that go along with that, I just LOL'd and said thanks, maybe 2020 will be a year I can actually look forward to!

Squiggy's sitch was definitely an interesting read and he had lots of great support from many vets on here to get through it. what strikes me about his sitch compared to mine is that he had a TON more talking with his WW throughout, also from the beginning his WW even though she had an OM she was not after divorce whereas mine I have no idea of OM and W has only been full speed divorce since she left. it does show that IF both parties do reach a point of wanting to make a new MR, it can happen. course I also read about his struggles with piecing and for a long time I've been thinking how incredibly hard that must be. probably why I default to if OM then move on. forgive part I "think" I could/can do, forget likely never could/would.

like I've said there is so much good thought provoking and helpful information contained in so many of these sitches. appreciate you Sandi for tipping me off to this one. It does show that it is possible for folks to get their marriages back from the most difficult of circumstances.

-B

Hi all...just a vent/journal...feeling sad today. D went back to W yesterday. The contrast between a house where you hear "Daddy" a million times to none...the silence can be deafening and it just [censored] the life out of the place.

That's pretty much it. Oh and last night was looking at old pictures. I sure did pick a pretty one no doubt about it. People say to hold tight to those happy memories because as your wayward may constantly rewrite history on you, those serve as proof that the relationship was not always nor nearly as bad as they make it out to be. Beyond the whole "trying again", I honestly wonder if I'd be able to hit the jackpot in the looks department with another lady. I get that looks are not the only thing and Lord knows I'm learning that now, but...can lightning strike twice? I dunno.

My IC knows she has a fight on her hands with me about trying again. Perhaps strangely I'm not depressed about it nor coming at it from an emotional angle. Maybe I'm just trying to protect myself, but my mind has been working constantly, ingesting huge amounts of infidelity, failed relationships, men being clueless like a computer running through all of the possible play combinations to "checkmate" and prevent myself from giving any other lady another shot at my heart.

That said only reason for my sadness, I just miss my D. Always get this way when she's gone.

My best to you all.

-B

B, I have been in love with two women in my life. And was headed there with a third. First was my longtime, on again, off again girlfriend. The one that was headed there was a girl from Brazil who was only in the states for 6 months. We dated for 5 months, and if she had stayed, or I had move there I would have no doubt been in love with her, no question. The third is my W.

All 3 had one things in common, they are knockdown gorgeous. All are 9s, no doubt about it. All of them know about the other 2 and have commented about how pretty the other two are. (My W is Facebook friends with both of them!)

The on again, off again chose someone else over me eventually. The girl from Brazil didn't care enough about me to stay. And my issues with my now W are well documented here.

I've often told myself that if my W left me for an OM, what I would look for in another woman would be completely different. I've always thought I needed to be crazy about the woman I ended up with. That was false. What I should have been looking for was a woman that was crazy about me!

Here is my criteria moving forward if it were to ever end with my W:

- Must share my values
- Must be happy and enjoy life
- Must be head over heels crazy about me
- Must love sex!

Obviously I want someone I am attracted to, but does she have to be knockdown gorgeous? Another 9? NO!! Cute is all I will ever need again as long as they have those 4 qualities above.

Trust me......no one stays dropdead gorgeous as they age. All three of the women I mention in this thread are still attractive, but they aren't 9s any more. The important things are the things above.

Steve...for my W's age she looks much younger. It is ridiculously narrow minded to view looks as supremely important as again here I am in this predicament no matter her looks, but I truly do wonder if I could be so lucky again. Thing is I would look for another woman with basically the same "fundamentals" as my current W. Your list of 4 is interesting to me. W and I had number one for sure although she was much more "passionate/opinionated" about her values. #2, she failed miserably at. I think due to #2, for #3 she couldn't be that way towards anyone. I don't think she has the happiness within her to feel that way about another. And #4...ya know it's just not that big of a deal to me. Like yes, love no...that would be ok.

I do agree with you though, cute with strong #1/2 and decently strong 3/4 and I'd be happy. And yeah, I am seeing that about not being 9's anymore, but then again I think as we age we learn there is way more to life than the physical. For sure there needs to be the attraction, but I would FAR prefer a happy with life, committed cute than some 9-10 angry at the world and entitled.

The thought of re-living life through the eyes of my 4yo D is WAY more appealing to me than ANY consideration of a new adult life with another lady. I would rather live again as a child with the happy fun things of life than deal with the drama of a modern relationship. Like with everything time will tell.

-B

B, you got this. You are strong for you and your D!

journaling...

so imagine that...yesterday afternoon i got a text convo from my WW about some stuff related to D4. that's significant as i could probably count on one hand the number of conversations i've had with WW in a year.

within the D4 talk, I got comments interjected from her along the lines of and I'm paraphrasing Taylor Swift saying "we are getting divorced and like never, ever be together again...like ever"

the need to restate the obvious that yes, you are divorcing me always strikes me as why the need?. like I well know that, so why the need to say it again. there were some other "fog"/history rewriting things said. quite frankly some of them as written didn't even make sense. i consider it a measure of my detachment progress that I just addressed the issues regarding D4 and left the WW talk alone.

"maybe" the divorce comments were temp checks? have so little said between us sine separation, never had any from her so even recognizing them would be difficult for me. anyway just moving along...

Has she actually filed?

nope...still working on the agreement and honestly not with much urgency...in a way feel like I've done more on that than she has...

I don't see these as temp checks as much as they are vague "it is over so go ahead and file" messages. WASs and WSs especially are notoriously lazy when it comes to the actual D. I know my W was "I don't want to be married anymore, and want a D". But every conversation after that related to D was to framed in the "when you (meaning me) file, blah blah blah". She had no intentions of every doing any of the work herself.

the need to restate what I basically have long ago accepted as obvious is just weird to me. like why the need? I heard you a long time ago LOL

as I say it was blah, blah, blah D4 and then "we're divorcing", blah, blah blah D4,...."hey we're getting divorced" LOL

the conversations, what W says...still amazing to me how much of it either doesn't make any sense or honestly didn't require a text in the first place.

anyway...moving on along...the scarcity of interaction made this noteworthy for me.

Originally Posted by ballast

the need to restate what I basically have long ago accepted as obvious is just weird to me. like why the need? I heard you a long time ago LOL

as I say it was blah, blah, blah D4 and then "we're divorcing", blah, blah blah D4,...."hey we're getting divorced" LOL

the conversations, what W says...still amazing to me how much of it either doesn't make any sense or honestly didn't require a text in the first place.

anyway...moving on along...the scarcity of interaction made this noteworthy for me.

yeah, they are extremely strange creatures. Dealing with them takes self-control and patience. Well done on that front by the way!

thanks...getting triggered about something i've accepted long ago just wasn't going to happen. i wondered if I should have addressed those D comments, but not seeing any value in doing so, I just let them roll off me.

I've always stayed open, respectful and willing to listen whenever W contacts me, but I'm not going to lose control or patience...to do so would just provide oxygen to her flame or justification that I'm the problem.

just a quick journal entry...

it is a terrible shame that this divorce must happen and W has not shown a single sad feeling about this...it is what it is I know, I know also as Sandi has said I can't fear the divorce and it just has to happen.

i am definitely one of those once divorced the door is forever closed types of folks although the words that BluWave wrote in Joe2017's sitch really had an impact on me and how i view what's happening.

i'm resigned to the inevitability of what lies ahead of me. i know unfortunately it must happen and for all intents my MR has been dead for coming up on a year. i do not understand how man or woman can get to a point like my WW where the ending of an MR can be seen as a positive or even joyful thing. i guess that's just one of those unanswerables of life that i don't have to like, but must accept.

our marriage/family I loved more than my own life...REAL hard to see it ending like it was nothing but a piece of trash to my W.

I know i'm not alone in these feelings and I know full well the blessings i have in my life...doesn't stop the pain of this though...

-B

B... I could have written that last entry. It seems like you and I are in very similar places. Resigned with a level of acceptance but still struggling with the painful feelings that come when someone you loved and trusted abandons and betrays you. I, too, have many, many things to be thankful for but you are right, it does not stop the pain. I am grateful that as time goes by though, that the pain is not as sharp as it was in the beginning. That�s progress at least. Hang in there. Keep posting. You are not alone... I know you know that. I also know that future will bring some happy surprises as long as we are open to it. (((HUGS)))

Ease your mind B. Last comunication fueled the spark you have somewhere inside your heart. And it�s ok to have it and to be in pain right now. You�re longing for a former W that�s not there. But the pain is there. It will flow out with time. Need to live the real world, remember?

You have done a long walk B. And you are here, time and space centered.

You have yourself (not an easy thing...), you have D4. Live the present.

All my love to you and D4 man

Originally Posted by ballast

just a quick journal entry...

it is a terrible shame that this divorce must happen and W has not shown a single sad feeling about this...it is what it is I know, I know also as Sandi has said I can't fear the divorce and it just has to happen.

i am definitely one of those once divorced the door is forever closed types of folks although the words that BluWave wrote in Joe2017's sitch really had an impact on me and how i view what's happening.

i'm resigned to the inevitability of what lies ahead of me. i know unfortunately it must happen and for all intents my MR has been dead for coming up on a year. i do not understand how man or woman can get to a point like my WW where the ending of an MR can be seen as a positive or even joyful thing. i guess that's just one of those unanswerables of life that i don't have to like, but must accept.

our marriage/family I loved more than my own life...REAL hard to see it ending like it was nothing but a piece of trash to my W.

I know i'm not alone in these feelings and I know full well the blessings i have in my life...doesn't stop the pain of this though...

-B

Having your S reneg on their commitment to the MR is the hardest thing any of us will go through short of medical issues. No question. It is the most emotionally damaging event someone can go through. And you've been through it twice. B, hang in there. Things will improve and get better. Love that little girl like the precious gift she is!

thank you DV6 and neffer...

we are getting ready to dismantle more of our material things from ours to her's and mine. procedurally it is simple, the impact of what those changes represent is far far from easy to accept for me at least.

i don't understand where she went, what was so wrong, how can someone...i'm dealing with the trauma of things that impact me for which i'll never understand. when you say she is no longer there, it's so matter of fact that the thought people can just "disappear" from who they were...anyway..

yes I have me and D4. just have to pick up the pieces and move on. pray some day ANY of this will make sense. so crazy after so many months of nothing...I'm in tears writing this...

appreciate so much the support i've gotten from this board.

There are no pieces B, it�s you and D4 for what you are accounting now. We all get what you are saying man. I was on the other side, remember...all I would say to you now is that we can�t run from ourselves all the time. But it doesn�t depend on you when, where, how, even if... That�s why you need to check reality.

We know it is hard B. We are all there with you. Account what you have. You have a treasure.

Hey Ballast,

Hang in there! You have a wonderful little girl to live for and whom you can focus your attention on. That is the biggest blessing.

I do think you need to let go. Not just let go of your W, or the MR that was, but let go of the expectation that you can EVER make sense of this situation. It doesn't serve you to focus on that, and the lack of a rationale behind it can/will drive you nuts if you let it. Sh#t happens. The longer you stare at the past the more you don't have your eyes on the present. Maybe that's the answer. It's hard to let go and when you turn your mind towards it, it is easy to once again fixate on the object (W, MR) that you are trying to release. So, instead focus on the present, the life you have, the life you and your daughter share.

B - I know EXACTLY how you are feeling. I said the same thing yesterday.. how the dismantling of our life together is so unsettling and painful for me but means pretty much nothing to my H. He is so desperate to just get everything wrapped up in a bow so he can reinvent himself and just forget about me and everything he has done. He really believes that I am the reason he lived a double life for so long. Davide is right. There really is no making sense of it. Our spouses could have made many other choices that would have potentially led to strong and happy marriages but they didn't. Instead they chose to harden their hearts and wait for their opportunity to drop the bomb and run. That is on them, not us. People who do that are really missing something internal....empathy, character, a moral compass... hopefully in time they come to recognize this and do the work but it is just as likely that they won't. Either way...we do have to save ourselves in the end. So sorry that you are going through this. I would not wish this feeling on my worst enemy. There is light at the end of the tunnel though...just keep moving towards it as best you can. Look beside you... I am right there with you. (((HUGS)))

Hi Ballast,

I have a four year old daughter too! I feel the exact same way you do. Loving family more than anything and then being tossed away like trash, not to mention the irreplaceable loss for the children that we'd do anything to avoid. I'll never regret trying to save my marriage because it meant everything to me. I'm sure you feel the same way. I'll try to read through your thread more to see if I can offer any clarity on why things happened the way. I've been going through this for years. It's the worst pain anyone can imagine.

neffer from my side, there are only pieces left...I guess it's very difficult for waywards to truly understand the degree to which their actions destroy us LBSs. I do know very well that I'm only accounting for myself and D4 now. And I do appreciate and understand what you say about the "other side". I completely get I'm on my journey alone and she is on the same with hers. I don't even have within me a desire for karma to get her or her to wake up or her to actually anything. The degree of trauma her actions have brought on in me, I don't even feel any way towards her right now good or bad.

thank you davide. yes, I for sure do. it is unbelievably hard to see the magical smile and growth of D4 and the potential for her young life...against the complete heap of failure that was the inability of her parents to give her the family she so surely deserves. and I hear you on the let go, move forward. i can tell you after going through D twice, the desire to move on LOL. exist is a more apt description. i have all the time in the rest of my life for whatever. i'm just right now in a place i can describe really. i miss the W i knew, i hate feeling like a complete failure especially when I don't know how it happened, but I have no desire to pursue her or even be emotional over it. when i look ahead...i see, but i'm just staring off like i'm in a daze.

time...so much time am I going to need to move forward to something. i love my life with my D4, work is fine, GAL ain't bad either...am i fated to be alone the rest of my life never to be able to trust again? i just don't want to try anymore relationship wise, my faith in love/marriage/finding a loving forever partner is shot to H**L...and maybe it was all my fault.

so tough how the simplest of discussions about this is mine and this is your's sent me off the cliff today...apologies in advance for parts of this being a pity party. clearly i'm on the low part of the roller coaster track today.

-B

(((B)))

Originally Posted by Ballast

time...so much time am I going to need to move forward to something. i love my life with my D4, work is fine, GAL ain't bad either...am i fated to be alone the rest of my life never to be able to trust again? i just don't want to try anymore relationship wise, my faith in love/marriage/finding a loving forever partner is shot to H**L...and maybe it was all my fault.

Again...could have written that. So painful to read and even more painful to live. Yes...we both contributed to the demise of our marriages but we would have also done ANYTHING to save them IF our spouses had told us how they were feeling. I'm sure there were signs along the way...for sure there were in my sitch...but both of us did the best we could with the information that we had...which honestly, wasn't much. We need to forgive ourselves B. Difficult I know. I, too, feel like a failure and that I have let my children down. But again...I would have done anything to change that. I was not given the chance. My H made up his mind long before he ever let me in on what was happening. And what you wrote about being fated to live alone? We are both still grieving B. Give yourself some time and don't let fear reign because that is what that is...fear. [I know...I talk a good game..."fake it till you make it" definitely applies.] (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by DejaVu6

Again...could have written that. So painful to read and even more painful to live. Yes...we both contributed to the demise of our marriages but we would have also done ANYTHING to save them IF our spouses had told us how they were feeling. I'm sure there were signs along the way...for sure there were in my sitch...but both of us did the best we could with the information that we had...which honestly, wasn't much. We need to forgive ourselves B. Difficult I know. I, too, feel like a failure and that I have let my children down. But again...I would have done anything to change that. I was not given the chance. My H made up his mind long before he ever let me in on what was happening. And what you wrote about being fated to live alone? We are both still grieving B. Give yourself some time and don't let fear reign because that is what that is...fear. [I know...I talk a good game..."fake it till you make it" definitely applies.] (((HUGS)))

I think about my sitch and how W told me what she wanted / needed me to do�and for whatever reason, I didn�t do it, or I apparently didn�t do enough. She brought that up the other night�that according to her, I couldn�t or I wouldn�t. It�s hard for me, too, because I do feel like I failed her, and I�m regretting what I�ve done and failed to do.

What I also know is that she has problems that she needs to look at honestly and deeply�that we both did things wrong. But it�s still hard to not feel like all this is my fault, so I understand.

I do understand the fear of being fated to live alone after all this�but that is it, fear. It�s also the purpose of working on self, GAL�ing, 180�ing (W tells me how great I am at words, but she wants actions), and the last couple of months I�ve been attempting to just show her (which is also why I�ve been sparse with my words�but in typical WAS-speak, it�s not enough if I don�t talk enough, my talk is cheap when I do). I�m trying to keep PMA and rediscover my value / self-worth and realize that I can be a gift to someone down the road�MR 2.0, or someone else, in time.

We all are grieving, but also we are all worthy�and that is what I keep in mind. (((HUGS)))

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Well I think it's part of recovery. It's a way for us to remind ourselves that we really AREN'T crazy, our WAS really did love us and care for us at some point regardless of what they say right now. It doesn't make any sense that they can just turn their feelings off, but yet it happens. You may have seen me mention this before but my ex told me in tears that I needed to take care of myself, that I couldn't die because if I did she could never go on with her life. I mean she was crying her eyes out! There was nothing that triggered it, she just felt the need to tell me she couldn't survive without me. 6 months later- BD. What happened in those 6 months that suddenly changed her mind about the M? NOTHING. Nothing at all, not one thing was different. How do you mentally grasp that a person can do such an extreme 180 like that? I wish I could tell you, or that someone else could tell both of us, LOL! Anyway my point to you is this- this is about your H, not about you. You are clearly a loyal, loving, caring, sensitive person that many men would be proud to be married to. Your H? A switch in him flipped, and he's not who he used to be. Maybe he will be again some day, but maybe not. Regardless, don't lose who YOU are.

Thank you AS for posting that in DV6's sitch. Definitely needed to hear that for my sitch as well.

DV6/Nicole/Bo...I appreciate all of your words of encouragement, support and the shared knowledge that we are all experiencing many of the same terrible feelings at the same time.

DV6...so I didn't believe I feared anything as I know I'm a high self esteem guy. even if W had an OM, I'd still feel the same way. My first marriage for whatever reason I never gave the OM a second thought. I guess in my mind her having an affair made her a bad person, adultery was a sin and so she was now OM's problem and I was free and clear in the eyes of the Lord. If I found out the same with current W, I'd feel the same way..."better him than me actually". Betrayal? I will drop you like you weren't even born. BUT in the past my trust "setting" was default to ON....now my setting is "Leave Alone". So you ARE correct my fear of trusting is off the charts. I know that has to change within me if I ever intend to ever try again. Anyway yeah that is the fear that is winning within me right now. Although I see it less as a fear and more of a decision...likely though much more of a defense/protection that I acknowledge.

Nicole...thank you and good luck trying to find anything in my sitch about why/how things happened!

. Fear of aging, body image, motherhood, responsibility, life passing her by, we were roommates, can handle every day life she had all of those within her. Anxiety/avoidance...my IC said in 20 years of practice she has never encountered someone as avoidant as my W. Stander has told me several times in the past how silent his wife was. Last week I read through his story. His W was WAY WAY more talkative with him than mine. Not a single phone call in a year. Text exchanges I could count on one hand. Not one single "how are you", "I'm sorry", no temp checks, nothing. To say that if not for our D4, there would not be much difference between her having died and the level of communication in our sitch would be a very accurate statement.

Let time erode the edges of pain B.

Stick to DB basics: keep the GAL going. You need to keep looking for your future. Andrew P wrote some time ago that he would know he was healed when what defined him is in front of him rather than what is behind. Many of us are far from healed but we MUST look forward.

Stay strong man, keep moving.

(((B & D4)))

neffer, as always thank you for your support. you're positivity with so many people suffering on here, I wish I had that.

dropping into straight out depression...i can feel it circling me hoping i'll drop into it. D4 solely by being the light of my life, keeps me free of it. beyond being able to stay free of that...my future is stasis. the more time passes the more pieces of the destruction i'll be able to put back together. i've lost, my WW has won. and if she was far from healed, i've now joined the listed of zombie like casualties as well. feel like giving up on the IC, giving up on love...so pointless trying to understand how to become a better partner. two divorces in 10 years, two new houses i never lived in long enough to even get comfortable in or fully make a home.

i'm strong and will forever be for my D4. simply put it's the only valid representation of true love this chaotic modern entitled world can't destroy. you are a blessing to many on here neffer, even if so many of us rue "the other side" that we don't understand from which you experienced. i thank you sincerely for the help you give everyone, i just think i'm way too far gone for helping. she won.

Nobody wins B, we all loose. Ever.

Time to cycle upwards now my friend. Start moving. We are here to help you. Help yourself first.

Insert "Kick in the a$$" emoji here

Go man, go!

(((B)))

so....i met someone. i didn't go looking. she came looking for me.

a girl friend of mine had emailed me to say her friend thought i was handsome and sent me her picture. I told my friend to thank her for the compliment and let her know that I though she was very pretty. definite sparks/mutual attraction.

to say that this happened when i was "down" on the roller coaster that is my sitch...the whole concept of chapters in a person's life, they don't end and start many times as we might expect. this weekend and new person have breathed amazing life back into me. i'm taking all of this slowly. i am very interested in her and want to get to know her. i have stood for my marriage for almost a year with basically zero interaction with other ladies and exactly ZERO interest from my W. i do not have any guilt in pursuing this, internally it is time. as we are always told here, move forward, live for yourself...i am doing that.

i guess i'm just amazed at how life can sometimes turn on a dime. i am anxious to try and apply all of those things i've learned here about being a better man and better partner. i know i've dropped into i'm done, no more, etc, but i've been reading alot of good stuff who have said you will get your heart broke along the way, but don't give up because what is right for you is out there. simply put i'm just refusing to give up.

i wish you all well and my prayers for each of you that are hurting in your sitches.

-B

Best of luck mate. 1 step at a time.

Take it slow and get to know this lucky woman.

I'm almost 6 months post DDay. In NC since October 2018. Nothing from WW. Haven't seen or spoke to her in person since last Sept.

I'm getting better and stronger every week. I hope to be as strong as you in a few months time.

good luck -B! Funny how life is, ain't it? "I think I am done with a relationships." "Whoa, a cute woman is attracted to me!"

Never say never.

thank you manta and steve!

for sure Steve life is funny. of all the things my experiences have taught me, the most important is how you expect/want your life to go and how it ACTUALLY goes are two completely different things.

coming to acceptance within yourself to allow your life to be taken where God wants it to go for you...

mindful from where I've come, i'm just trying to free myself as best i can from the desire to control and let my life take me where it will. i have a wonderful new interest placed before me, I am thankful and blessed for that.

Nothing has changed...and all has changed...perception of who we are...

That�s moving forward B!

You are making me tear at work...shame on you man!

thank you neffer. yep...on a single "my friend thinks your..." your whole life can change. so crazy to grasp how the utterly simple can be the most profound.

when i didn't want to move forward, life stepped in. really an amazing thing for me to think about.

just had a blessing come out of nowhere. to be sure neffer you are an amazing help to so many here. funny how the last words i had on my sitch before new lady showed was you saying "Insert "Kick in the a$$" emoji here". it worked! :-)

-B

Well, some kicks in the a$$ have worked for me...I have had like more than a thousand by now...and they are still coming!

Really happy for you man. Just ride the boat now, it will go up and down in the waves, but it will go somewhere. The key is to enjoy the ride.

Keep sailing B!

Haha B that's awesome. I had the same thing happen to me in August. I went out and had 4 different women showing interest one Saturday night. And my mindset changed so quick. And hopefully you learned how much of that "being down" was just in your head!

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

And hopefully you learned how much of that "being down" was just in your head!

This is so much of it right here. We get in this rut where we think if our W doesn't want or like us then no one does, and we sink into a hole and think that's it, we're done, life is over, we'll just scrape along and survive until the end comes knocking. It takes a wake-up call like B just had to realize that this whole mess is more about our spouse than it is us. True loving, caring, nurturing, sensitive gentlemen like us are a dying breed and in high demand! Once you realize that then you see the world in a different way. You see your W as the big loser in this, she's throwing away the best man she could ever hope for and all for what, a fling with some second-rate loser. Well she's welcome to it because there's plenty more for us out there. Let her affair down, we'll go the upgrade route

Of course we are all about saving marriages here, but some of them aren't going to be saved no matter what, so it's good to know you're going to have some very attractive options if your M doesn't make it.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Haha B that's awesome. I had the same thing happen to me in August. I went out and had 4 different women showing interest one Saturday night. And my mindset changed so quick. And hopefully you learned how much of that "being down" was just in your head!

Another anti-D writer I read during my sitch talked about how these wives with a walkaway mindset usually regretted it. Our society and male-female characteristics, like it or not, makes it much more easy for a man to move on than a woman. She talked about how many wives that had affairs, then initiated D would later see their ex-H happily remarried, while her affair eventually ended, and wishing she still had her H. She even said it was a phenomenon where the WW wouldn't want her H back until it was too late, IE he had moved on with another woman.

Anecdotally this generally seems to be true based on the what I've seen.

I think the complete inability for an LBS to understand their WW is the greatest thing that locks us up in our mind and heart. As shown on here so many WW just go WAY past the level of comprehension for an LBS and because they still exist physically as whom we recall...it's the ultimate trauma. for me at least, my value of myself never faltered, but my belief in my ability to meet the needs of the other gender...oh yeah that was shot to crap.

It's so funny to me Stander. When you described your new lady and how amazing she was to me in the early days of my sitch, I was like "yeah right, good luck for me finding something like that" BAM! out of NOWHERE she came to me! Best I can describe it is "next chapter for B, BD has begun". It is funny as well because as I am completely certain of my desire to pursue this new relationship...out of the back of my mind there are whispers saying "maybe my W was right in ending us". THAT feeling after so many months of complete denial that could be the case.

All I can say is right now even if I wanted to, I could not go back to my WW. It's not even a matter of dropping the rope...there is no rope to drop anymore.

-B

One step after the other B. Take your time, relax and enjoy the ride. You have the control of your sitch, you have always had it.

Keep moving.

Congrats Ballast! It's great to hear the shift in tone as this new relationship as opened your eyes to the future!

You mentioned using this new relationship as a space to try out the new and improved Ballast v.2.0, and I think that is spot on. Taking the lessons we have learned through our stiches to make ourselves a better partner in any relationship. For me that means letting go (or trying to!) of expectations, and holding everything lightly rather than trying to grasp and clutch it closely. It also means being true to my values even if that means walking away from a relationship or person who I am attracted to.

What do you think it means to you?

Davide, yep for sure in a very real sense I feel like I've been positive BD'd if that makes any sense.

For me it means NOT trying to avoid conflict, NOT being passive, deferring my role as man of the relationship. I am far more aware of and interested in establishing solid foundations within a relationship from the start especially with regards to communication. I think most importantly to me, Sandi's post regarding how a woman loses respect for her man. That really resonated with me. While true that my WW was responsible for leaving and ending our MR, there are many points within Sandi's list where I felt that I could have/should have done much better. Again not truly being aware of the impact of those things which I took for granted. Basically and this will sound overly simplistic, but it really is...being THE MAN. And I don't mean being a fake or over the top alpha or some jerk or other distorted depiction of one. The leader, protector, provider, take care of business type that all women respect. I'm as excited about developing that within me and for the benefit of this new relationship as I am about the fact that this new relationship has presented itself.

-B

hello everyone...does anyone have bookmarked and/or can search and find Sandi's "why/how women lose respect for their man"?

i've never been able to find it and given sandi's vast posting i'm not surprised. i know it was posted in 2018, spring/summer if i recall.

any help with a link to it would be appreciated!

-B

* The H has had an EA/PA. He flirts with other women, even in front of his W. The H is guilty of inappropriate behavior with women. He compares his W to other women, making her feel inadequate and insecure. He openly shows how he is checking out another woman, in the presence of his W. He talks excessively about the new woman at work and cannot praise her enough. He wants his W to change her hair color or dress like a particular woman he knows. He talks about marriage as if it is his prison and his W is the warden. He makes unfunny jokes or comments about marriage, wives, playing around on the W, etc. He talks and behaves as if other women is the only topic that is ever on his mind.

* The H lacks male dominance. (The following was taken from another source). He lacks the take-charge ingredient when it comes to the MR and family life. His role models have been the TV sitcom H's who are the laid back, hen-pecked, passive types. He mistakenly believes that the way to a happy marriage is to let his W be in charge of everything, resulting in her ruling the roost. TV shows portray marriages that have a domineering W, with a somewhat dim-witted H who just happily goes along with whatever his W wants. In real life, those ingredients do not produce a happy W. It produces a W who disrespects her passive H who lacks male dominance in their MR and in the family home.

* The H is constantly rude and inconsiderate of her (and others). He embarrasses her in front of others. He talks down to her or makes fun at her expense in front of her children, family, friends, and in public. His manners are terrible. He is too loud (talking, laughing, poking at others, drawing attention, etc.) in public or in a group setting. He gets drunk and acts out in front of others. He may cuss or use vulgar language toward her and/or others while in public or a small group.

* The H never admits he was wrong or takes responsibility for his mistakes. He blames others or the situation for his failures. He is arrogant. The H won't listen to her views or concerns. He doesn't respect the opinion of others. He thinks he is right and everyone else is wrong....regardless of what it is. When watching TV, he gets drawn into the program....making condensing or vulgar remarks, even in front of the children. His negativity is always present in his interaction with others. She worries that the children will pick up his bad habits.

* The H is a control freak. This goes beyond a healthy interest or concern. He wants to control every aspect of the W (what she does, where she goes, who she talks to, what she wears, when she can visit her parents, etc.).

* The H is emotionally insecure. He is jealous, suspicious, fears, worries, expects the worst case scenario, gets anxious, etc. He doubts himself as a man. He needs constant assurances from his W that everything is fine.

* The H lacks compassion, patience, tenderness, and understanding. He resents his W's complaints or her attempts to discuss the need for him to have these traits. Instead of trying, he grows colder, harder and more impatient with her and the children.

* The H is selfish in every area of his life. Self-gratification is priority for him, and if his W and kids don't understand, that's too bad.

He wants her undivided attention on his needs. He drains her b/c he is always focused on himself and how he feels.

Thank you LH! Much appreciated!

-B

Originally Posted by Steve85

good luck -B! Funny how life is, ain't it? "I think I am done with a relationships." "Whoa, a cute woman is attracted to me!"

Never say never.

Lol, this is where I am at. Its still a bit odd to me to have a woman interested in me. What is even stranger is that I am very interested in her. I am so so glad that the woman I am talking to is also interested in "slow and steady". Like zero planning for the future, lets enjoy what we have now and actually talk about our feelings while being transparent.

I was already "done" mentally with my MR before I met this woman. But now that I have met her I am truly free. I feel wonderful and the positive attention and positive words of affirmation from a beautiful young woman do wonders on my self confidence. Meeting this woman really woke me up in regards to understanding that I absolutely deserve sooooooooooooooo much better than what I was "content" with.

that's great to hear ST! Happy for you!

-B

Originally Posted by ballast

I think the complete inability for an LBS to understand their WW is the greatest thing that locks us up in our mind and heart. As shown on here so many WW just go WAY past the level of comprehension for an LBS and because they still exist physically as whom we recall...it's the ultimate trauma.

Exactly right. I think most LBS's are desperately clinging to the thought that the WAS is going through something temporary and will at some point get "back to normal". That can happen like I think it did with Sandi, but in most cases they never are the same person again. My ex is a good example, she's more like her old self but she is not at all the person I was married to for 20 years. She's maybe 50% that person, whereas after BD she was maybe 25%. And couldn't agree more that the fact that you still SEE the same old body and face makes it that much more difficult to reconcile the changed personality in your head.

Quote

It's so funny to me Stander. When you described your new lady and how amazing she was to me in the early days of my sitch, I was like "yeah right, good luck for me finding something like that" BAM! out of NOWHERE she came to me!

Yup. Good men are hard to find these days. Great men more so. Great men under 40 are like unicorns. Women, especially young women, are starving to find a good man (much less a great one). I met a friend for dinner yesterday. She's 31 and beautiful. Dark hair and striking green eyes. Looks like Melisandre on Game of Thrones. Her last BF invited her to Aruba, then told her she had to buy her own ticket. When they got there he didn't pay for a single meal, expected her to. Oh and he invited his best friend to go along with them, a married guy that hit on her whenever her BF wasn't in the room. Then she got Montezuma's Revenge and he ditched her to go party with his friend. I mean this is the same kind of crap I heard over and over again when I started dating. Whenever I hear men here saying they don't know if they'll be able to find someone again, well, they have no idea how easy it's going to be. It's like saying you don't know if you'll ever catch a fish again, but then you take your boat out and fish are jumping in the boat before you can even get your lure on.

Quote

All I can say is right now even if I wanted to, I could not go back to my WW. It's not even a matter of dropping the rope...there is no rope to drop anymore.

That's awesome, congrats!

B & AS,

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. I too have been told I am/will be a catch when I am ready to start dating again. Hopefully, having 3 young children won't be too much of a no go for most women, but it does make me worry. I had discussion with my father where I was expressing the frustration of having to start over, date, and date for the first time in my adult life. He said TF women are like busses, dont worry another one will come along shortly.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Exactly right. I think most LBS's are desperately clinging to the thought that the WAS is going through something temporary and will at some point get "back to normal". That can happen like I think it did with Sandi, but in most cases they never are the same person again. My ex is a good example, she's more like her old self but she is not at all the person I was married to for 20 years. She's maybe 50% that person, whereas after BD she was maybe 25%. And couldn't agree more that the fact that you still SEE the same old body and face makes it that much more difficult to reconcile the changed personality in your head.

Food for thought for me. I have thought about when W would get back to �normal,� but I should prepare myself for who W is to be the new normal.

Every now and then I see shades of W�but she�s clearly not the same, and hasn�t been for a while.

I see the same body and face�and yeah, every now and then she looks great / amazing, but a fair amount of times when I�ve seen her recently, she just doesn�t look good�not just in the sense of my finding her attractive, but she looks sad and frumpy.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Yup. Good men are hard to find these days. Great men more so. Great men under 40 are like unicorns. Women, especially young women, are starving to find a good man (much less a great one). I met a friend for dinner yesterday. She's 31 and beautiful. Dark hair and striking green eyes. Looks like Melisandre on Game of Thrones. Her last BF invited her to Aruba, then told her she had to buy her own ticket. When they got there he didn't pay for a single meal, expected her to. Oh and he invited his best friend to go along with them, a married guy that hit on her whenever her BF wasn't in the room. Then she got Montezuma's Revenge and he ditched her to go party with his friend. I mean this is the same kind of crap I heard over and over again when I started dating. Whenever I hear men here saying they don't know if they'll be able to find someone again, well, they have no idea how easy it's going to be. It's like saying you don't know if you'll ever catch a fish again, but then you take your boat out and fish are jumping in the boat before you can even get your lure on.

I know I�ve taken 2x4s on my going back and forth about wanting to save my MR�and justifiably so.

Once again, this is food for thought, to file away for later, in the event that things can�t be saved. It�s important for me to put the work in for myself�so that no matter what happens, I can be happy with myself and be proud of myself and have a better self-image (be a better husband down the road, father, employee, etc.).

While I know that I shouldn�t work on myself so that someone can be attracted to me, I do understand that that can be a consequence of it (not the primary motivation). And I can understand how younger women have difficulties in finding good or great men. What I have to turn away from is the NGS tendency to be a �good� man (or at least appear like one) in the hopes that they will be attracted to me, or that I will be rewarded for that with their love. I know that that burned me on multiple occasions in the past�I probably missed out on some great women in my past because I had the blinders on and was stupid about it, but it�s in the past.

I just can�t imagine A/S� friend being treated like that, though�like who would do that and I know that I would totally treat her better than this if I was in this sitch�the guy not paying for meals, another guy paling around and hitting on her (not truly sure who the 3rd wheel in that sitch is, honestly�her, or the best friend), or him leaving her in the room while she is sick. Seriously WTF�poor young lady, she deserves better. But I also realize that this would be my �competition� in the event that I find myself D�ed.

What I need to keep in mind is to work on myself�NO MATTER WHAT the outcome with W.

Originally Posted by Twofeet

B & AS,

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. I too have been told I am/will be a catch when I am ready to start dating again. Hopefully, having 3 young children won't be too much of a no go for most women, but it does make me worry. I had discussion with my father where I was expressing the frustration of having to start over, date, and date for the first time in my adult life. He said TF women are like busses, dont worry another one will come along shortly.

I�m worried about the same thing. Will most women think 3 young children are too much baggage? Plus, I�m in a remote, rural area, so there isn�t an abundance of women like a city would provide....

Originally Posted by Twofeet

B & AS,

I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in there. I too have been told I am/will be a catch when I am ready to start dating again. Hopefully, having 3 young children won't be too much of a no go for most women, but it does make me worry. I had discussion with my father where I was expressing the frustration of having to start over, date, and date for the first time in my adult life. He said TF women are like busses, dont worry another one will come along shortly.

I have three kids. Women dont care as long as you are stable and decent looking.

Fellas...well although I only have one child, I will soon have two divorces. Within the first 48 hours of speaking with HMMMM...I need a name for her...got it..Miss Sunshine. Ok, so within the first 48 hours of talking with Miss Sunshine, the topic of my divorces had already come up. She already knew I had a D4 from my pictures. Main thing is open and honest. She asked a question, I gave the truth. I let her ask me what she needed to know as it went. I told her I didn't want to dump a pile of me on her right away, preferred that we just discuss things naturally as they come up. Now some ladies may be ok with your baggage, others may not. If anything else from what you have learned on here and will have learned by your first encounter with a new lady past your exW, if one lady decides she's not for you, move right on along, there will be others. Be yourself, be confident, h**l show your strength and quality because by the time you've gone through what we've all gone through, you WILL be all of those things!

For me, Miss Sunshine point blank said "how is it possible you are not taken?" Also she had said she thought she would make a great mom or step-mom and her expectation for how many children she may want would be flexible depending on if the man she married had any children. Bottom line...drop the worry, be honest, be open and most of all BE.THE.MAN.

Believe nothing that they say and...upss! ;-)

You are an experienced DBer now B. Once a DBer always a DBer. The basics are to be used everyday, everytime.

So take your time to walk your road. Know what I mean, right?

I like your PMA B, that�s the way. There you go.

Wishing all the best for you my friend, always!

(((B)))

thank you neffer!

Yes, you are right...strip away all of the rest and DB is to me primarily about becoming the best version of yourself that you present to the world and releasing any desire to control the world's reaction to who that person is.

One thing for sure that I would also say to the other guys who just posted. If/when a new someone comes around, your mind will flood with a ton of thoughts. TIME/PATIENCE. Miss Sunshine and I got off to a fast start just in terms of planning to do things. And then we realized that and it lead to our first need to communicate. It wasn't a conflict at all, just a point where we had to work through. I am happy to say she is very open and honest. We both told each other our thoughts, agreed we should take our time and agreed the need to discuss it further was closed unless/until we reach the next milestone. I knew it wasn't a conflict, but from what I've learned here I listened to her, engaged her and we resolved it. When you start with a clean slate and as things come up, you will find yourself drawing on what you've learned here.

I guess along those lines...when/if you meet someone new...just as is said here to LBS's to not share the knowledge with the WW, I would highly suggest folks don't brain dump there new "selves" on the new person. Keep it for you, don't spew it out at the new person. The knowledge should be "grafted" into the new person you have become if that makes sense. I guess I mean just don't approach the new person as a walking book of self help pointers. Be natural. You will have spent so much time here learning Sandi's rules, do this/do that, but don't take that approach into the new relationship.

thank you neffer for your support my friend!

Ballast,

That's great to hear you met someone new and you have another chance at love. That's actually the best outcome imaginable under these circumstances. Why mourn the loss of a spouse that abandons you for someone else, broke your trust, and won't communicate when you have the chance to start over with someone who is worth your love. It's great that you're young and you can still build your family and enjoy life together with someone else. Sounds wonderful!

Originally Posted by NicoleR

Why mourn the loss of a spouse that abandons you for someone else, broke your trust, and won't communicate when you have the chance to start over with someone who is worth your love.

Nicole,

I�m terrible at taking my own advice, but I hope that you also take your own words to heart with respect to your sitch.

We here hope to help you remember that you deserve someone truly amazing, and who is worthy of your love.

We hope you never forget that you are worthy, and that you deserve these things, too.

Hi Bo, thanks! If I meet such a person that'd be so wonderful. Right now I'm not aware of such a person existing who is available and interested and who I'm interested in as well, but if it could ever happen that would the best possible outcome for me as well. I need to work on improving myself a lot more first. I hope your situation is progressing well. I'll try to visit your thread shortly.

Thank you Nicole!

I am very intrigued by my new someone. For sure there is mutual interest. Truly the greatest part of this chance is not whether or not this will last forever, but simply the gift that I've received that says "love is possible again". Really is amazing how a simple introduction can break the chains of trauma that hold us to our past.

Really appreciate your kind words of support! :-)

Time and patience boys and girls...time and patience...

Wow B!

The last time I saw your thread you were against anything that resembled putting yourself out here towards the opposite sex. And I can see how you came to that. What a turnaround. My friend - I hope you find the true peace you deserve! Blessings.

Wlf...

Yeah, I guess I can only say that my disposition was driven by the trauma brought on by decisions/actions that I couldn't understand. I mean I could accept my W wanted to leave, but never having the WHY. I think that's behind what threw me so far into the "I'm not playing" anymore mindset. Best I can say is that my mindset was blown away by my heart's emotional reaction to Miss Sunshine's arrival. Spiritually inclined you could say that God decided to show me rather clearly that he was in control of my life and could 180 my resistance effortlessly. She just showed up in my life and there was no way I could resist. That it happened when I had ZERO thought that it might...the chapters in our lives open and close sometimes very subtly and other times with a suddenness that's really amazing.

Thank you Wlf for your kind support and prayers throughout my sitch. I wish for you that you can find true peace, love and happiness in your sitch as well.

-B

just a journal post...

D4 went back to W yesterday. D4 and I continue to have the best times together. it was the end of my first week of being a single dad and talking with Miss Sunshine. you read about being a single parent and dating, trying to balance the two given the demands on your schedule. until I experienced that this past week i didn't appreciate the words i had read. no issues at all really, Miss Sunshine understands my responsibilities and accepts them. the thing i need to focus on is that she is trying to get to know me and not right away D4 so when she and I speak I keep our convo mostly all about us. D4, well she is a smart cookie and is curious to whom it is I'm speaking with when the phone rings. as it is early days I simply tell her "Daddy is talking to a friend" and leave it at that. for me as a guy, prior to being on this board having cognizance about the needs and feelings of those people with whom i relationships with, i was clueless. now i have that inherent awareness AND desire to make sure that not only are my needs and feelings met, but so too the others in my life. Miss Sunshine speaks openly and honestly with me, provides words of praise and has shown herself to be apologetic even for when she has no need to be. good stuff is all I can say. I continue to be mindful to not get ahead of myself, not try to save her from her daily stresses and not put her on a pedestal. I do feel a more competent, valuable partner as a result of the knowledge I've gained from so many of you.

The other aspect...D4 continues to wish that we were a family still. The excitement of my new interest contrasts against D4's feelings and it makes it tough on me. There can only be one or the other, not both. While I'm free of the feelings of her mother, my heart does hurt and pull for D4's desires. I guess at the core of it, I continue to remind myself that it was not my decision to separate our family nor my decision to not try and save it. My having met Miss Sunshine didn't happen do to me being proactive in seeking her out, rather she found me when WW decided to set me free. It is a unique feeling living between the past and the future.

-B

B...

I am so happy for you.. How the heck do I sit here at my office, and smile from ear to ear, reading the story of a person, whom I have never met, and yet it feels so personal, because you deserve every freakin little feeling of joy and bliss that comes your way.

You have been a tremendous help for me in order to get to where I am today, and for that I can never thank you enough.

Enjoy the rays of sunshine this new SO is throwing at you, be the lighthouse for your D4 that you already are, the tall and guiding light in her life. And then remember: You have one life, one chance to make the most of it. You are already so very focused on making D4s life the best it can be given the circumstances - now sit back, enjoy the ride, and feel fine, not guilty for D4s feelings of wanting a relationship with dad and mom, because you didn't create these circumstances. Validate that little angels feelings, acknowledge that it is hard, and then realize that it is what it is. You can't change that, and now you make the best of what you have, and from what I can read, Karma is catching up with you in a positive manner.

I hope the very best for you and your family, you deserve every inch of it.

/h

Hurt...just wanted to say thank you for your kinds words about my sitch. They are very much appreciated!

And you are welcome for my attempts at trying to help you in your sitch. The longer you are here...and learn and read of the pain of others who have just arrived...you will pay it forward to help the others as well. For all of the stuff on the Internet that is hurtful or of little value, people in the most painful of circumstances of life help each other on this site. For anyone who's life is made better from the support and kindess of others on here, it becomes a sense of obligation to help those who come after you.

You are right of course...to the best of my ability I'm going to love and be the best father I can be for D4. And as wonderful new options in my life come up, I must take the options for me to find my happiness. It is what it is = truth to me and as I've said on here before, truth for all of us on here in our own sitches is many times the hardest thing to accept.

I hope the best for you and your family as well! You have dealt with a very high degree of waywardness more so than myself. It is a wonderful thing for those of us on here when we see good people put through terrible adversity, survive and thrive. You will be one of those people.

-B

so this a different update...

last night Sunshine is working, so I'm watching tv leaving her be...i fall asleep, it was late, but she had sent a simple Hi text and I had missed it. we usually exchange "good nights" at least. anyway thought she might still be up so called once, but no answer. so i texted back about 5 lines saying "hey sorry i feel asleep, have a good night, etc" as usual in the morning we text a good morning pleasantry to each other. she replied she had fallen asleep too. she was still sleeping pretty much and could we text later. i was on my way into work anyway so said no worries let's just email once we're at work and she replied cool to that...

so a bit later i'm getting ready to head into the office, i get a text say "i'm sorry i'm a bit overwhelmed by waking to 2 missed calls, 10 texts and you wanting to talk when i'm not really up yet, it's a bit overwhelming" so i called once and yes it could have been 10 texts, but i could have condensed it to 3-5 and for sure i had no expectation of her wanting to talk at that time. heck we had just agreed to email once we got to work.

when we first met she was proactive about calling me, FT'ing me, you name it. i can be long winded on chat and have said as much to her and hope to improve it. i genuinely like her as a person and i'm trying above all else to not be pushy, nor too fast and for sure not overwhelm here, yet based on her update this morning I'm feeling like I've blown it with her even though I don't feel like a missed call and 10 text messages is really overwhelming.

so anyone who has any words of encouragement or especially ladies with advice, i'm all ears. she has told me she is excited about us, has asked if I could call her before going to sleep so we could say good night and has told her mother about me. I do have GAL planned for this weekend and I'm genuinely feeling in a good spot. I'm just in that first weeks phase where everything is new and trying to not blow my chance with her. last thing i want to do is scare her off.

-B

B,

I want you to immediately order the book by Corey Wayne called How to be a 3% man. In his books he talks about over texting and so on. I have to be honest with you, 10 texts without a response is borderline creepy stalkerish.

Texting is like a game of tennis, you send one text and wait for a response when you get the response you send another text and so on like hitting the ball back and forth to one another in tennis.

Right now you should back off and wait until she contacts you and slow it the fuch down.

LH...thanks man...I got that book some months ago and I had been reading through some of it. I'm aware of many of the points that he's talking about. And i do get that 10 texts could be a lot, but if one text is "Hi" "you still up?" is another...like i say I could have rolled it up into 2 texts max. it's not like I was writing War and Peace to her or panicked or quizinng her or anything like that.

And yep, i'm doing exactly that. the uneven thing like i say is...she's been calling, FT'ing me, all that each day...I call one time to see if she's up and she counts the texts I send, and she's a bit overwhelmed...she was going full throttle, i thought i was continually slowing down/pulling back...

bottom line slowing the F down. we both took off upon first contact. just hoping i've not blown it. even if I have though...from my time/experience...i'll just walk on ahead.

AND...like I say I was simply heading to sleep one night with no talking to her being cool/laid back, yet she texts me to ask if i can call her to say good night...

B,

Can you post what made up the ten texts?

I don't think you blew it. Just make sure you wait for her to reach out and keep it light.

LH...

LOL so I don't have my cell with me, but this was it actually was about 8 total texts between last night and this morning...and it's REAL deep stalker type stuff..."Hi""So I feel asleep""Sorry I missed your text""Wanted to talk with you""esp as I don't have to be at work til later""good night""sweet dreams" that was last night..this morning "good morning, hope you have a great day""missed talking with you last night"

As i say I did try to call her once last night just to say good night. night before when i just said hey i'm off to bed, she asked me to call her so she could hear my voice

this morning from her was "good morning""i feel asleep lol" I replied simply "hope you had a restful night" she said "just waking up, text you later" i said "heading into work, just email you there" she replied "cool" then a bit later I got the "i'm sorry <box score> of my comms to her...it's a bit overwhelming"

if I was like "where are you?" "call me back!" something creepy/stalker like i'd get it more. but if I use 10 text lines to say 10 words that are not deep thoughts...she has sent me paragraphs in single texts LOL but it's not like I count the words and say "ok that's uncomfortable" :-)

i'm just laying low...and for sure if she contacts me, i will be light...

Ballast,

I hear what you are saying, but I think you need to pull back some. I generally agree with the theory that texting is like a game of tennis in which you have to wait for the other person to hit it back (i.e. contact) you before you reach out again. Certainly there are different circumstances which require different kinds of communication. However, if I send a text like "Hey are you up/around?" and don't get a response I would generally wait until the next day to follow up.

Also, remember the pursuit/distance dynamic. A new relationship is not like dealing with a WW, but many men and women do like both to be pursued, but also to feel like they need to do some of the pursuing themselves. I am dating a woman right now and after 5 dates I was frustrated that it wasn't going anywhere so I pulled way back on communication, basically not texting her unless it was in reply. Very quickly she started reaching and pursuing me as she felt that distance creeping in.

Good luck!

Originally Posted by ballast

."Hi""So I feel asleep""Sorry I missed your text""Wanted to talk with you""esp as I don't have to be at work til later""good night""sweet dreams" that was last night..

I think you were ok with this last night even with a phone call included.

Originally Posted by ballast

this morning "good morning, hope you have a great day""missed talking with you last night"

This is too much without a response.

What is her background? Has she been single awhile? Just out of a long-term relationship?

LH...yeah like I say if I was sending hearts, asking her where she was, why she hadn't replied, whatever, i'd totally get it, but i wasn't. and then the stuff for this morning was only because that is the pattern we had established daily. didn't need to say it, but we always have done so to date.

had she not previously asked that i call her to say good night, I would have not even picked the phone up to try and reach out to her last night.

she's been single for some a while now, two prior long terms that didn't pan out, but those were over by 2016.

just not used to someone counting the number of texts i send...if I take 10 texts to say 10 words that make up a simple "hi, how are you, I was asleep, sorry I missed you, good night, sweet dreams"...i just don't see that at all as overwhelming...

Davide, yep agreed and I get it. thing is not once have I sent "hey are you up/around"...i'm just doing my thing, leaving her be, not checking up on her.

and yep, i'm aware of the dynamic...and I think esp in light of what transpired this morning which I don't think was fair on her part to call me out on, i need to back off a bit more. for sure when i was cool with just going to bed and not talking with her, she came out and asked for me to call her to say good night.

LOL just like when we get BD'd, the first few weeks of a new relationship is always when you are most out of balance because of the new reality you are in.

Woman chiming in here. As LH knows, I have certain feelings on the coach...... but as LH also knows, I am cool with communication. Liberal with it.

But 10 texts with no response, even if one liners, is too much, even for me. No matter what your thought process behind it is. It's too much.
"fell asleep, sorry I missed your text" is more than enough.

How old is she?

Originally Posted by ballast

so a bit later i'm getting ready to head into the office, i get a text say "i'm sorry i'm a bit overwhelmed by waking to 2 missed calls, 10 texts and you wanting to talk when i'm not really up yet, it's a bit overwhelming" so i called once and yes it could have been 10 texts, but i could have condensed it to 3-5 and for sure i had no expectation of her wanting to talk at that time. heck we had just agreed to email once we got to work.

B, hey count yourself lucky that she said something to you about it, that's a good sign. She could have just said nothing and let resentment build up over it. You didn't mention how you responded but hopefully it was something like "you're right, I'm sorry!" And then let it go. My girlfriend works contracting and keeps odd hours. Sometimes she doesn't get up until almost noon. By then I've usually been up 6-1/2 hours! I will text her a "good morning" when I get up. Sometimes something will come up that I want to text her about, but I've learned it's better to just wait because if I send her a bunch of texts then her reaction is exactly like that- overwhelmed. So I have a couple of very simple rules I follow. First, I never, ever send her more than two texts in a row without a response. Second, sometimes I don't text her until she texts me. So for example if I text her "good morning" and then later "hey did you notice XYZ is happening this weekend?" Then that is it until I get a reply, which could come several hours later because she's either asleep or working. And sometimes I don't even text her good morning because it's good for her to initiate sometimes. If I remember right you said she was a lot younger like my GF, right? She sees you as the older, mature, experienced, busy businessman. To her it seems a little weird if you are blowing up her phone. She EXPECTS you to be slow to reply and short with words even if she is overly chatty. So play into that. You remember the DB'ing rule about "sometimes reply right away, sometimes hours later and sometimes not at all if it's not important"? I still live by that, it works to keep you mysterious.

Quote

even though I don't feel like a missed call and 10 text messages is really overwhelming.

Well she told you it was overwhelming, so you need to learn from it and stop it, right? Again think about what her perception of you is, and be that. When you pursue, she pulls back. When you pull back, she pursues. So if she says you're being overwhelming then pull back and you'll probably find her being the one to send 10 texts.

Link to my new thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2835085#Post2835085