Old ThreadSo, W came to me, last night, and asked if I received any guidance from my IC counselor yesterday. I told her that my IC's opinion was that it would be best for the kids if we made the "transition" of her moving out after the holidays. She started talking logistics about the move and that she still needed to talk to her boss about the proposed 3-3-4-4 custody arrangement that I suggested (with this arrangement, she will have to basically work from home one day and probably get to work late on another day so she can drop the kids off at school before she leaves). I just replied that she's got a little time now to get her affairs in order because I want what is best for the kids. She did state that she wants the kids' room all set up and ready before she brought them over to her apartment which seems obvious and logical. Nothing really more was said or discussed.
Then I received this text after she had left for work this morning:
Thank you for bringing that topic to IC yesterday. Regarding your text on Saturday, I agree that you deserve better. I understood from what you said when we talked on Saturday that you want me gone, are tired of “playing house” and you’ve moved on, so I will continue to do whatever I can to stay out of your way at the house. If you take the kids [on GAL] on Saturday, I could try to get some of my things moved then. If you want to get the 60 days started, there are pleadings in the first drawer in the X that you could get notarized in [other town] today so you don’t have to in town. You can scan and email them to me and I can file them. I am glad you feel that way about being respected (from your text Saturday). You do deserve that and I’m so very sorry I have not treated you that way. You are worthy and deserving of true fulfillment.
There was another paragraph talking about getting some medicine for one of our kids who seems to be coming down with something. Logistics on where to send the prescription. I replied to this part but didn't mention anything in the quoted part.
I don't think I really should respond to any of that should I? What I really WANT to say is, "I am worthy and deserving of that, just not from you? You can't allow yourself to give that to me, huh?" I'm not going to, obviously....
So, now I need some advice on how to proceed. The pleadings she drafted were signed and notarized on November 19th, so she's had them in her possession for 3 weeks. I'm not sure if this is manipulation on her part or some sort of a temp check to see if I actually 'have moved on' as she referenced in the text, and follow through and sign the certificate of service for receipt of them or what. I didn't really say 'I've moved on.' I said I am starting my journey of moving on and need her out in order to continue down that path, which is best for me. I feel like I want to wait and see if after she moves out if she has any sort of change in how she feels once 'reality' hits her. But, we do have to wait 60 days before anything is final and that could maybe take place in that time frame. There's nothing to say the final decree has to be filed right on the 60th day either.....just not sure how to proceed.....
W,
Well you tried to get an reaction out of her by saying what you said, just not the reaction you were looking for when you said it.
The rule of thumb is you don't do the heavy lifting but you also don't do anything to hold it up. You have about a 1% chance of your W doing an about face within 60 days.
W,
Well you tried to get an reaction out of her by saying what you said, just not the reaction you were looking for when you said it.
The rule of thumb is you don't do the heavy lifting but you also don't do anything to hold it up. You have about a 1% chance of your W doing an about face within 60 days.
I know that. She's would be too stubborn to admit it to me if she would have second thoughts. She would more than likely suppress those feelings, like she has with everything in our MR, apparently, and try to "grind it out" to prove to herself she was right and made the correct decision.
I'm just curious if her telling me about the pleadings and letting me know that I can sign them and scan and email them to her is just her trying to call my bluff about "moving on." I am trying to move on. I need to. But I want to do it in a way that doesn't appear weak, apprehensive or show her that I'm still attached. The part of her text that stick out to me is her saying "
IF I want to get the 60 days started..."
While you were starting a new thread I was typing a response that ended up in the old thread, so I'm pasting it here as well:
Like an idiot, I broke my going dark plan and forwarded the message onto W.
"Illusion of action" Doing nothing isn't working I need to do something!
I explained this in a couple texts to W. I told her that I have always put too much weight on what people think (she knew this and agreed) and that I've been actively trying to rid myself of that characteristic. She responded "that so nice to hear. It's so liberating that you can free yourself of that. I'm happy for you.
Actions not words Wanted1. This is approval seeking behavior. I've changed I've changed!
" Maybe my desertion of going dark just for this particular exchange could plant a small seed of doubt in my W's mind that I "can't change." Doubt it, but who knows?! Nothing I'm doing is changing though. I didn't respond to that text and I've continued my going dark plan.
I'm gonna go dark for a day until I can't take it any more and then forward her a text and tell her I've changed. Guaranteed it did nothing but show her your'e still attached.
I will not change a thing I'm doing, however! Keep on the going dark path and see where it leads me.
I think you need to look up what going dark means.
Wanted, please review the above responses from LH again. He is spot-on, I had the exact same thoughts reading your posts. I also agree with his later comment that you seem like a control freak. I can't tell if you always have been, or if it's perhaps a response to the situation you find yourself in (struggling for some semblance of control) but it's something to explore with your IC.
My former "friend" keeps texting W. The only "good news" is, it appears my W hasn't been responding as of late. Over the last 3 days, he's sent probably 8 text messages and she has replied twice. Her last response was 2 days ago.
And you know this how? Stop the snooping.
I shared this with one of our mutual friends who I've confided in about my situation.
Do not talk to mutual friends about your sitch. Only discuss it with friends that have no connection to your W at all, or discuss it here. Anything you say to mutual friends WILL get back to your W and she will see it as you "rallying the troops" against her.
His advice was that I should confront him before it advances any further. I told him that while the thought has crossed my mind numerous times, I don't think that's a good idea at this time.
If anything is going on between them then there's nothing you can do about it (she is leaving after all). If you confront either of them it just makes you look like a controller/ manipulator and will just drive them closer together. Plus they will go deeper undercover with their activities using burner phones and such. Your attitude should be "don't know/ don't care".
You’re right. I did tell her about the furniture to see what her response would be. You know what? She came hustling in to talk for the first time ever since BD. I sensed her feeling like she’s losing control. She feels in control because it’s her decision to leave. She feels in control because I told her she has to file, I’m not. And I still won’t. She felt in control by thinking she could decide to move out when it worked best for her. Not anymore. I took my b@lls back by telling her I want her out as soon as possible.
If she felt you were controlling and manipulating in the M then that's something you should be doing a 180 on. DB'ing is "opening the cage door" but it is not kicking her out of the cage. You should be letting her make these decisions. If she says she's moving out your response and attitude should be "I would rather you stay and work on the M, but if you feel it's best for you to move out then I will not stand in your way. I will support you in whatever decision you make." Are you under some illusion that kicking her out is going to make her respect you more and make her want to come back? It's more likely she'll see it as "more of the same" controlling behavior.
Being the lighthouse and the rock doesn't mean being a jerk. I wish people understood this better. It means being strong, firm, resolute, but doing so in a LOVING manner.
I just keep reading a lot of "I did this, and that showed her who is really boss!!" stuff in your posts. When it comes to BD, S and D, there are no winners, everyone loses. You're not going to "gain the upper hand", because there isn't one. So many LBS's try to "nice" their WAS back and then when that doesn't work they try to "mean" her back. I think that's exactly where you are right now. But you can't "mean" her back either. All you can do is pull back and give her time and space and let HER figure things out and maybe decide to come back.You can't control yourself out of this.
I know that. She's would be too stubborn to admit it to me if she would have second thoughts. She would more than likely suppress those feelings, like she has with everything in our MR, apparently, and try to "grind it out" to prove to herself she was right and made the correct decision.
From what you post here and especially from her quotes you've posted, I get the impression that your W is not nearly as stubborn and hard-headed and you say she is. I just sense a lot of hatred and frustration in your posts and it feels like perhaps you are trying to heap all the blame on her. I'm not saying her hands are clean, but you can't fix her. You can only work on and fix YOU. So try and focus more on YOUR faults and wrongs and doing 180's on those.
I'm just curious if her telling me about the pleadings and letting me know that I can sign them and scan and email them to her is just her trying to call my bluff about "moving on." I am trying to move on. I need to. But I want to do it in a way that doesn't appear weak, apprehensive or show her that I'm still attached. The part of her text that stick out to me is her saying "IF I want to get the 60 days started..."
Well of course she said that, because you told her you want her out ASAP! So now in her eyes, YOU are the one that wants to initiate D. You've painted yourself into a corner Wanted. We say it all the time here, but don't EVER kick your spouse out or tell them you want D unless you have well and truly moved on (you're not even close) and are willing to back it up (you're not).
I shared this with one of our mutual friends who I've confided in about my situation.
Do not talk to mutual friends about your sitch. Only discuss it with friends that have no connection to your W at all, or discuss it here. Anything you say to mutual friends WILL get back to your W and she will see it as you "rallying the troops" against her.
I met one of my mutual friends with former friend/OM#2
Regarding everything else, I don't think I was controlling or manipulating in our MR. If she expressed her desire to do something, I never stood in her way.
I am trying to do what is best for myself right now. A lot of people have said on here that IHS rarely works. We've been at it for almost 3 months now and nothing has changed. I can't detach and move on with her always around. When she told me 2 weeks ago that she is done, why should I wait around and let her continue to have all of the advantages of being in a MR with none of the responsibilities? If she is done, she needs to move out. Simple as that. I told her I would wait for her to sort through her feelings and decide what she wanted to do. It appears she has and therefore why wait any longer? If anything is going to change her mind or give her pause, I truly believe it would possibly come from experiencing what reality will be like for her outside of the family. Being on her own, etc.
Wanted,
I get your impatience to be done with IHS. I couldn't stand it for even a day. Getting some distance and time between you probably would help you heal. But you can't control her. And you don't want to move out yourself. So, is it really a situation that you can control? It sounds like you need to make the best of it until she decides to leave. Focus on what you can control - your attitude, time with kids, GAL, 180s. Try to find the joy and gratitude in those parts of your life. Your MR is not your life, focus on the other parts for the time being.
Regarding everything else, I don't think I was controlling or manipulating in our MR. If she expressed her desire to do something, I never stood in her way.
Controlling types never think they are controlling. I see a lot of red flags though, so explore it with your IC. I'm not saying you are controlling, it's hard to judge that over online posts. But there are enough concerns in what you are posting that it's something you should check into.
I am trying to do what is best for myself right now.
Here is what is best for you right now- STOP. BREATHE. GET OUT. GAL.
We've been at it for almost 3 months now and nothing has changed.
We're not kidding when we say this is a marathon. I know 3 months seems like forever but it's not, it's a blip on the radar. Recons never happen that fast. I've been on here for many years and only remember two recons that happened in less than a year. Most happen in the 1-3 year range. Some take longer than that.
I can't detach and move on with her always around. When she told me 2 weeks ago that she is done, why should I wait around and let her continue to have all of the advantages of being in a MR with none of the responsibilities? If she is done, she needs to move out. Simple as that. I told her I would wait for her to sort through her feelings and decide what she wanted to do. It appears she has and therefore why wait any longer? If anything is going to change her mind or give her pause, I truly believe it would possibly come from experiencing what reality will be like for her outside of the family. Being on her own, etc.
OK, well first of all you can't legally kick her out. She has as much right to be there as you do. You can demand she leave, but she can refuse and then where does that leave you. Same place, but looking like a powerless fool. Second, what is the big hurry? Do you think that once she leaves you will magically be detached and done with her? No, only TIME and GAL does that and it will do it whether she is there or not. Third:
"If anything is going to change her mind or give her pause, I truly believe it would possibly come from experiencing what reality will be like for her outside of the family."
if you think doing this is going to be a wake-up call for her, you are wrong. She will more than likely embrace her new single life, at least at first. She is on a journey and nothing you do will speed it up, in fact most of what you are now doing is just slowing her down. You know how you can help speed her on her journey? LEAVE HER ALONE.
AS,
I’m not kicking her out. 2 weeks ago she said she “had” an apartment. Last weekend she brought up that she would rather move after the holidays. I then told her If leaving is her end game, I’d rather she do it sooner rather than later. I don’t think communicating my wishes is kicking her out and she knows she just as entitled to stay in the house as I am.
Has anyone went through the Survivng Divorce program? I think it’s associated with the Catholic faith. I’m wondering if I shouldn’t look into it as a way to better heal and move forward. The quicker the better and if there are rescources to help with that, I’d much like to take advantage.
And before anyone says there is no quick fix. It takes time. I understand that. I just mean in a more efficient manner than trying to do it on your own. ‘Work smarter not harder’ comes to mind.
I contacted DivorceCare. And I would have joined a local DC group if my sitch had continued that way.
I like where you are thinking W1. No one should try to tackle D by themselves. Get support.
Well, I didn't respond to that message about the D papers in the drawer from my W for quite awhile. Initially, after the text, I wasn't really bothered by it. Then, as I was traveling for work, the roller coaster started downward. I started to become saddened about what seems to be inevitable. Went through the 'woe is me' act about everything that has transpired this year. My lucky number/favorite number has always been 34. I remember a post my W put on instagram on my birthday about a month before all of this crap started in May. It was wishing me a "lucky" 34th birthday and that 'I am loved.' Boy, did that not age well!
So, in the midst of this anguish and heartbreak, I went against my initial plan of not responding to her text and sent her a message which said that I wanted to know her thoughts and feelings on this. Does she wanted me to sign the certificate of service so she can file now or not? She is the one that wants this, not me. And I won't stand in the way anymore.
I never got a response. Do her actions speak louder than her words? I want to think so, but I'm unsure. She signed the initial pleadings back on November 19th. She has had them in her possession this whole time and hadn't brought them up to me until yesterday. Now that I've asked her what SHE wants, she doesn't respond. Are these possible signs that she is actually not 100% sure she wants to proceed yet? No clue. If I take her at her word (believe nothing of what they say) she's tried to make it pretty clear she doesn't want to R. However, if that's the case, why not give me the pleadings after she signed them? Or, why not just reply to my text yesterday with a 'Yes, let's get the process started.' Confusing to say the least.
All I know is, I'm not going to be pursuing an answer from her. I'm not going to bring it up anymore. I'm going to go back to my 'do nothing' mindset unless she gives me a clear indication that she wants me to sign the paperwork, which I will do. If she gives me the indication that she wants it signed, I will give her her wish. I'm not going to impede the process.
I started reading Joe2017's threads last night. It's become apparent to me that his W was pretty dead set on D early on and while I have only gotten through about half of his threads, I saw his update yesterday that she's now come back, 1 year later, with repentance and sorrow and sounded as though she is wanting a second chance. His W early on did try temp checking him quite a bit which hasn't been the case in my sitch. Anyway, it is a good example for me that the WW does sometimes come out of the fog. That doesn't mean mine will, but it does give me some peace of mind knowing that even if my W sounds dead set on pushing through to D, there is the possibility that down the road she might realize she screwed up.
I'm going to continue to turn my focus on detaching, moving on and letting her go instead of putting so much effort into saving our MR. I will try to be the lighthouse with a smooth and clear road back for her if she decides to have a change of heart.
I have been getting a lot of unhealthy advice from my mom, lately, which further clouds my mind. Rather than being supportive and understanding of my sitch, she is trying to give me advice on what I should do (kick her a$$ out now! You deserve better, she's a liar and a fake!, etc. etc.) Not helpful at all and I told her that last night. She tried to lay the guilt trip on my and tell me that they (my parents), too, are grieving and were "blindsided" by this. That it isn't just the 5 of us (Me, W & 3 kids) going through this. I finally just quit responding to her messages. It reminds me of the first chapter in DR where MWD talks about family and friend influences. I know, deep down, she thinks she is trying to help but the way she's doing it is the complete opposite of what I need right now. She is so insistent on knowing all of the dirty details of what W did (As) and has been relentless in trying to get me to admit them. She thinks that will give her a better understanding of what I'm going through. She is just trying to be nosey and get dirt on my W to justify her contempt for her. I haven't, yet, and don't plan to anytime soon. What is ironic is my W is trying to destroy my family, has caused me so much pain, suffering and sorrow but yet I still feel the need to "protect" her. I think it shows that deep down I'm a good person with good morals and core values and that I am not intentionally vindictive by outing all of her dirty laundry. Too bad she can't see that.
Or, why not just reply to my text yesterday with a 'Yes, let's get the process started.' Confusing to say the least.
Shifting the blame. And you were pursuing. I went through this exact same thing around Sept. 15 if you want to look through my threads from back then.
All I know is, I'm not going to be pursuing an answer from her. I'm not going to bring it up anymore. I'm going to go back to my 'do nothing' mindset unless she gives me a clear indication that she wants me to sign the paperwork, which I will do. If she gives me the indication that she wants it signed, I will give her her wish. I'm not going to impede the process.
Good.
it does give me some peace of mind knowing that even if my W sounds dead set on pushing through to D, there is the possibility that down the road she might realize she screwed up.
Good, and let the peace of mind help you heal. Apparently there are a LOT of stories about the dead-set ones coming back. At least that's what I tell myself for my own peace of mind.
she is trying to give me advice on what I should do (kick her a$$ out now! You deserve better, she's a liar and a fake!, etc. etc.)
Typical. They see you hurting and they want it to end. They don't realize that it won't end even if you do everything they're saying. My parents have been pushing me to file for D for a couple months now, with the rationale that "your emotions will catch up with your actions, act soon." I hold them off by saying, yes, thanks, I know you're trying to help me. I'm still thinking about my options.
What is ironic is my W is trying to destroy my family, has caused me so much pain, suffering and sorrow but yet I still feel the need to "protect" her. I think it shows that deep down I'm a good person with good morals and core values
Or maybe check on CoDA? Hmm...
W1, remember family and friends always have one agenda. They know you are hurting and want to stop seeing you hurt. So they will tell you things they think will get you over the pain the quickest. That advice is usually counter to your goals.
And it shows that you love W and that ´s a right feeling to have. You must let her go, she has to find herself and you can´t do nothing about it.
Let her go and keep working on yourself. Detach, keep moving, keep believing in yourself.
Stay strong there W1!
it does give me some peace of mind knowing that even if my W sounds dead set on pushing through to D, there is the possibility that down the road she might realize she screwed up.
Good, and let the peace of mind help you heal. Apparently there are a LOT of stories about the dead-set ones coming back. At least that's what I tell myself for my own peace of mind.
Check out Joe2017's latest posts, classic example. He got BD'd 11-2017. His W steamrolled the D process and they were divorced February of this year. Had almost no contact for 6 months and now she has approached him expressing grief, sorrow, repentance, has asked his forgiveness and is begging him for another chance. If you go back and look at the 3rd or 4th page of his first thread you'll see me (and others) there saying the exact same stuff I say to most people here. Time, space, patience. I told him not to expect a turnaround in weeks or months, that it would take a year or more.
I don't have a crystal ball but what I do have is a lot of time here seeing a lot of situations play all the way out. Most of you are only a few months past BD and you think it's the end of the world because all you see is the pain and grief. But when you've been here for years like me and some of the others, you see there are some really spectacular things that happen AFTER the pain and grief. Transformed lives. Changed people. Unexpected recons. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. You just haven't been here long enough to see it and believe in it.
it does give me some peace of mind knowing that even if my W sounds dead set on pushing through to D, there is the possibility that down the road she might realize she screwed up.
Good, and let the peace of mind help you heal. Apparently there are a LOT of stories about the dead-set ones coming back. At least that's what I tell myself for my own peace of mind.
Check out Joe2017's latest posts, classic example. He got BD'd 11-2017. His W steamrolled the D process and they were divorced February of this year. Had almost no contact for 6 months and now she has approached him expressing grief, sorrow, repentance, has asked his forgiveness and is begging him for another chance. If you go back and look at the 3rd or 4th page of his first thread you'll see me (and others) there saying the exact same stuff I say to most people here. Time, space, patience. I told him not to expect a turnaround in weeks or months, that it would take a year or more.
I don't have a crystal ball but what I do have is a lot of time here seeing a lot of situations play all the way out. Most of you are only a few months past BD and you think it's the end of the world because all you see is the pain and grief. But when you've been here for years like me and some of the others, you see there are some really spectacular things that happen AFTER the pain and grief. Transformed lives. Changed people. Unexpected recons. IT HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. You just haven't been here long enough to see it and believe in it.
Yep, I’m on his 3rd thread now. What you were writing to him back then sounded awfully similar to what I’ve heard from you here. I’m preparing for the long haul, but in the meantime going to focus on me and getting through the pain, grief and utter devastation. That’s priority #1 along with continuing to detach and move on. I understand I need to let her go and do whatever it is she has to do. If that means signing the D papers to get it started, I’ll oblige.
Thanks again for always checking in on me.
Man that guy is a DB hero. No wonder he turned it around so fast.
I read all of Joe's threads. His sitch is almost the same as mine. My WW isnt crazy abusive and flaunting the OM in my face though. My WW is just acting like nothing is wrong and living as my roommate and occasionally getting mad at me for petty stuff then blaming me for "not wanting to fix it". My WW is still speaking with OM. My WW is adamant that her wanting a D has nothing to do with her A. Which is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life. My WW wants to be a WAW but she is in fact a WW.
I don't know what to think about my sitch. It's stupid to even THINK this, but I almost wish my W would get mad at me for crap because that would mean she's actually interacting with me and concerned about what I'm doing. She really doesn't give me the time of day unless it's something of the utmost importance pretty much.
On the flip side, no communication does help me detach from an emotional standpoint and helps me with going dim as well I suppose.
I'm still not physically detached as I stated in another thread yesterday. Once she moves out, detaching physically from her will be easier I think since I won't have to see her in all of her form fitting clothes constantly.
Not gonna lie, the lack of any intimacy for me is starting to bother me. Not necessarily with her, but just in general. My neck is starting to swell and I'm starting to get into full rut. All you deer hunters will understand what I mean!
My W gets mad at me about some things, but she gets ‘persnickety’ (her word), and it comes across very mean.
I know our stitches differ, but it’s rather easy for me to physically detach from her, though I would not say no to sex. But I agree with you, the lack of intimacy is starting to bother me. But it’s easier to find her less physically, emotionally and spiritually attractive, if that makes sense.
Sorry man.
Yep, I’m on his 3rd thread now. What you were writing to him back then sounded awfully similar to what I’ve heard from you here.
DB'ing today is pretty much the same as it was a year ago and 5 years ago
There are some aspects that are particular to each person but the gist of it is the same for everyone.
I’m preparing for the long haul, but in the meantime going to focus on me and getting through the pain, grief and utter devastation. That’s priority #1 along with continuing to detach and move on. I understand I need to let her go and do whatever it is she has to do. If that means signing the D papers to get it started, I’ll oblige.
There you go, that's exactly the right attitude!
I don't know what to think about my sitch. It's stupid to even THINK this, but I almost wish my W would get mad at me for crap because that would mean she's actually interacting with me and concerned about what I'm doing. She really doesn't give me the time of day unless it's something of the utmost importance pretty much.
That is because you are so utterly starved for attention from her. You may have seen me say this before but often the LBS will first try to "nice" the WAS back, then when that doesn't work they'll try to "mean" them back (this is a particularly a problem with men that have NGS). They are just so desperate for attention that they don't even care if it's positive or negative as long as it's SOMETHING. I doubt I need to explain to you why this is a problem! Work on that GAL, and keep in mind that attention is what YOU want, and at this time everything needs to be about what SHE wants.
On the flip side, no communication does help me detach from an emotional standpoint and helps me with going dim as well I suppose.
Yes, that's what going dim/ dark is for is to help the LBS detach. It won't fix the M but it will help the LBS detach and that detachment is what may eventually bring the WAS back around.
Not gonna lie, the lack of any intimacy for me is starting to bother me.
Well don't be too anxious to cross that bridge. When I started getting intimate with other women it opened a whole new set of struggles. I had never had sexual issues in my life, but being intimate with someone else after 25 years just felt so strange and wrong. I don't know how WAS's can have affairs and not be eaten alive with guilt and remorse, I struggled with it even though my ex had already dumped me and moved out! It took months for me to get comfortable being with someone else. The sexual gratification part is easy, the emotional and psychological side is not.
That is because you are so utterly starved for attention from her. You may have seen me say this before but often the LBS will first try to "nice" the WAS back, then when that doesn't work they'll try to "mean" them back (this is a particularly a problem with men that have NGS). They are just so desperate for attention that they don't even care if it's positive or negative as long as it's SOMETHING. I doubt I need to explain to you why this is a problem! Work on that GAL, and keep in mind that attention is what YOU want, and at this time everything needs to be about what SHE wants.
Yep, I see that clearly. And I know it's counterproductive to feel that way, I do. She wants to know associate with my whatsoever and wants time and space away from me and I am wanting the opposite. Time to forget what I want and keep in mind what she wants. Once again, I'm sacrificing my needs for hers but in the long run the needs I have right now aren't beneficial to my overall growth detachment or beneficial to her finding her way back IF that would ever happen.
Not gonna lie, the lack of any intimacy for me is starting to bother me.
Well don't be too anxious to cross that bridge. When I started getting intimate with other women it opened a whole new set of struggles. I had never had sexual issues in my life, but being intimate with someone else after 25 years just felt so strange and wrong. I don't know how WAS's can have affairs and not be eaten alive with guilt and remorse, I struggled with it even though my ex had already dumped me and moved out! It took months for me to get comfortable being with someone else. The sexual gratification part is easy, the emotional and psychological side is not.
Yep, very good point. The thought of even going out on a date just seems so scary and awkward at this point let alone anything more. It's been SO long since I've done any of that but I suppose over time, like you said, it'll get more comfortable. Face your fears, right?
I'm with you on the affairs thing. I can't imagine myself doing something like that. There's no way I could ever go through with it if the opportunity presented itself. I, too, would be eaten alive with guilt and remorse.
The part that is so utterly and absolutely confusing to me is why my WW wouldn't at least consider trying to work on things even if it were just for the kids.....that, obviously, isn't really a good reason, from my standpoint, in wanting to stay in a marriage, but even if she was only trying it for the kids' sake, it surprises me greatly that she couldn't find it in her heart to just try. I've even mentioned in the past to her that what is the hurt it trying? It doesn't mean we will 100% work our issues out and R. If we tried and things didn't get better than it pretty obvious what the best course of action would be. But to just flat out refuse to try and be done without any sort of attempt continues to boggle my mind.
Don't the kids deserve at least as much as trying?? Whatever, I'm done trying to understand it because I never will. She would never admit it, but her desires and actions are completely centered around herself with no regard for what's in the best interests of the kids. She tries to justify it with lame attempts at telling me the kids will be better off but everyone in their right mind knows that's just BS. I think that's where the most resentment I have for her lies. Her unwillingness to at least try now that I admit and own my own shortcomings. Something I haven't been able to realize in the past.
I know either way I'll be fine. This little ordeal has given me the opportunity to bond so much more with the kids which I'm enjoying so much I can't put it into words. I also think IF she would ever decide to come back, going through this for herself will give her that much more appreciation for me and the family we have. Sometimes you don't know what you have until it's gone. Maybe after some time on her own she will understand what she had wasn't really as bad as she thought it was and if I can continue down my own path of becoming a better version of myself, a R will be much better and long lasting. If not, again, I sort of feel like Joe2017 did and clearly become the most eligible bachelor in town. That doesn't seem to be a bad prospect. With that said, on the flip side, maybe I'll realize what I didn't have with her and am currently longing for. Sort of the opposite of "you don't know what you have until it's gone." I'll find out what it's like to have a spouse/partner who truly desires to be with me, treat me with respect and is utterly head over heels for me. That still could be with her or with someone entirely new. Maybe God needs us to both go our separate ways for awhile to work on ourselves so that if R is an option we aren't back in this same situation again and we come back renewed, refreshed and recommitted to each other. She has more work to do than I. I think that's a given. This could be God protecting me from another BD down the road if she came back before she should. Time will tell.
The part that is so utterly and absolutely confusing to me is why my WW wouldn't at least consider trying to work on things even if it were just for the kids.
Why is it confusing to you? It's because you are trying to use logic and reason with an emotional human being. It's best for the kids. (logical) You won't lose half the time with the kids (logical). You will lose half your assets (logical). That is how you see things. She is unhappy right now and she feels she will never be happy staying with you. These are her feelings RIGHT NOW and you trying to prevent her from her "happiness". More of the same behavior from you in her mind.
Whatever, I'm done trying to understand it because I never will.
This is part of the problem. You don't understand women and you will continue to struggle until you do.
She tries to justify it with lame attempts at telling me the kids will be better off but everyone in their right mind knows that's just BS.
This is actually true if you both end up in loving relationships down the road.
Her unwillingness to at least try now that I admit and own my own shortcomings. Something I haven't been able to realize in the past.
What are these said shortcomings you speak of?
I know either way I'll be fine.
100 PERCENT CORRECT!
This little ordeal has given me the opportunity to bond so much more with the kids which I'm enjoying so much I can't put it into words.
That is AWESOME!
Maybe God needs us to both go our separate ways for awhile to work on ourselves so that if R is an option we aren't back in this same situation again and we come back renewed, refreshed and recommitted to each other.
Very well could be. Now open the cage door Wanted!
Time to forget what I want and keep in mind what she wants. Once again, I'm sacrificing my needs for hers but in the long run the needs I have right now aren't beneficial to my overall growth detachment or beneficial to her finding her way back IF that would ever happen.
Exactly!!
Yep, very good point. The thought of even going out on a date just seems so scary and awkward at this point let alone anything more. It's been SO long since I've done any of that but I suppose over time, like you said, it'll get more comfortable. Face your fears, right?
Definitely. And to clarify a bit, I actually enjoyed meeting and going out with women. It was the sex part that was a big adjustment. I had just wired myself to be with one person, and rewiring my mind to open up to others sexually was the tough part. Now I've been with my GF for 4 years and she's my comfort zone. Having sex with my ex just seems so utterly foreign to me now, like THAT would be wrong!
The part that is so utterly and absolutely confusing to me is why my WW wouldn't at least consider trying to work on things even if it were just for the kids.....that, obviously, isn't really a good reason, from my standpoint, in wanting to stay in a marriage, but even if she was only trying it for the kids' sake, it surprises me greatly that she couldn't find it in her heart to just try. I've even mentioned in the past to her that what is the hurt it trying? It doesn't mean we will 100% work our issues out and R. If we tried and things didn't get better than it pretty obvious what the best course of action would be. But to just flat out refuse to try and be done without any sort of attempt continues to boggle my mind.
Oh yes it's very confusing and there is no reasonable explanation. It just doesn't add up, how can you say "I am going to spend my life with this person" and then invest heavily in a home and family with them, then decide you are done with all that and leave with hardly an explanation of why??? If I die and God meets me at the pearly gates and says "ask me anything, I will tell you the universe's secrets" then that will be number one on my list
She tries to justify it with lame attempts at telling me the kids will be better off but everyone in their right mind knows that's just BS.
And she knows it too, but she wants desperately to convince herself otherwise. It's a lot like mental illness, her synapses are not firing properly right now.
Maybe after some time on her own she will understand what she had wasn't really as bad as she thought it was
Very likely. Will it lead to recon? That part we can't say for sure, but she will come out of the fog some day and see things much differently than she does now. Sometimes it takes a long time. I don't think my ex really came out of the fog until this year. Her attitude has been such a dramatic reversal this year that I'm kind of surprised she hasn't hit me with the recon question. I wonder if she hasn't because either she is too ashamed, or because I have a GF now, or both.
The part that is so utterly and absolutely confusing to me is why my WW wouldn't at least consider trying to work on things even if it were just for the kids.
Why is it confusing to you? It's because you are trying to use logic and reason with an emotional human being. It's best for the kids. (logical) You won't lose half the time with the kids (logical). You will lose half your assets (logical). That is how you see things. She is unhappy right now and she feels she will never be happy staying with you. These are her feelings RIGHT NOW and you trying to prevent her from her "happiness". More of the same behavior from you in her mind.
I know, I know. Logic. I just can't wrap my head around someone not taking "logic" and "reason" into account for anything. With that said, I understand the concept of emotions guiding everything with her and logic not playing a part at all. I get the concept. I just don't get how someone can totally disregard one in favor of the other, I guess. Not sure if that makes sense or not.....hard to put into words.
Whatever, I'm done trying to understand it because I never will.
This is part of the problem. You don't understand women and you will continue to struggle until you do.
I'm not going to be naive and say I understand women, because I don't think I totally do. However, I don't think I'm completely ignorant about them either. I will say, though, I don't understand the WW mentality at all! I wonder if I should read Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.....maybe that would help me for the future.
She tries to justify it with lame attempts at telling me the kids will be better off but everyone in their right mind knows that's just BS.
This is actually true if you both end up in loving relationships down the road.
I get what you are saying, but "better off" doesn't really make sense to me. My kids are young enough that they have no clue what's going on right now. She's been living in the basement for 3 months and they still don't know or have caught on. They think everything is hunky dorie. It's going to be a major BD on them when we have to tell them she's moving out. I am NOT looking forward to that conversation at all. They adore their mother and are constantly wondering when she will get home now that she's at the new job and gets home later. I'm not sure they are going to be "better off" when our relationship hasn't affected them negatively at all. Also, I don't believe any kid is better off only seeing one parent each 50% of the time. I'd understand if we were constantly fighting, arguing and abusive in front of them, but that isn't the case in my situation.
Her unwillingness to at least try now that I admit and own my own shortcomings. Something I haven't been able to realize in the past.
What are these said shortcomings you speak of?
Typical "guy/male" tendencies: Not wanting to open up and talk about my emotions and feels. (Boy have I done a 180 on that these past 3 months!) General communication barriers/issues that I intend to work on and fix and have been trying to already. A little hard to do that/implement when you have no one to communicate with though! I think that goes both ways for my W and I though. We've never really been great at communicating. I plan to work on my end, it's up to her to figure out her side. I have some NGS in me, as well. Covert contracts were a big part of my mentality I realize now. I would freeze her out if she didn't initiate anything in the form of physical touch. Then I would get all frustrated when it had gone on for awhile and confront her about it. Stuff like that. Mainly all communication problems which are entirely fixable! And I want to fix them!
Maybe God needs us to both go our separate ways for awhile to work on ourselves so that if R is an option we aren't back in this same situation again and we come back renewed, refreshed and recommitted to each other.
Very well could be. Now open the cage door Wanted!
The door has been opened and is swaying in the breeze now.
I just can't wrap my head around someone not taking "logic" and "reason" into account for anything.
Men and women are wired differently.
One simple example:
Most men are turned on by the visual.
Most women are tuned on by words.
There is no way my women is going to be turned on by me walking around the house in just a T-shirt. Me on the other hand.....
She gets turned on when I tell her "You were the hottest girl in the restaurant"...If she says things like that to me, I don't get turned on.
The same is true for logic and emotions. Men make decisions based off of logic. Women rely heavily on feelings or emotions.
Use logic to change the way she feels about you.
You are the man. You need to use your logic and reason. You turn off all your "scary" emotions. Emotions are women behaviors. This is why women are attracted to strong men. Strong men control their emotions.
These are general characterizations, but I hope that helps clarify.
I just can't wrap my head around someone not taking "logic" and "reason" into account for anything.
Men and women are wired differently.
One simple example:
Most men are turned on by the visual.
Most women are tuned on by words.
There is no way my women is going to be turned on by me walking around the house in just a T-shirt. Me on the other hand.....
She gets turned on when I tell her "You were the hottest girl in the restaurant"...If she says things like that to me, I don't get turned on.
The same is true for logic and emotions. Men make decisions based off of logic. Women rely heavily on feelings or emotions.
Use logic to change the way she feels about you.
You are the man. You need to use your logic and reason. You turn off all your "scary" emotions. Emotions are women behaviors. This is why women are attracted to strong men. Strong men control their emotions.
These are general characterizations, but I hope that helps clarify.
Very well put, RC. That actually helps a ton! Probably quote thread worthy!!!
Logic tells you to set them free and forgive them. Your emotions keep you tied. Face your biggest fear and things move forward faster.
Logic tells you to set them free and forgive them. Your emotions keep you tied. Face your biggest fear and things move forward faster.
RC,
I think I'm headed in that direction. Right now, I'm fine either way, really. Not sure if the roller coaster will shoot down again or not but I've been feeling fairly calm over the past couple days with this current mindset. If she decides to come back, I'll take it into consideration, but she will have to be willing to meet any and all demands that I have for it to happen. Something along the lines of, "I'm willing to do anything to get a second chance." If/When she decides to tell me that I should sign the papers to get the process started, I'm fine doing that too. I'm done trying to delay the seemingly inevitable.
There will be something better for me in the future. Whether that is MR 2.0 with Wanted W 2.0 or with young, hot, amazing girl I meet 1.0, we will see. Either way, I'm going to continue to walk in the direction I'm headed and try my damnedest to not look back. I hope I don't fall back into the sorrow and agony stages. That is what I pray for now.
W,
I have to say for the the last couple days you have been saying all the right things. Keep it up bro!
Sorry to inform you though that you are many months probably years away from having no emotions towards your sitch.
W,
I have to say for the the last couple days you have been saying all the right things. Keep it up bro!
Sorry to inform you though that you are many months probably years away from having no emotions towards your sitch.
I don't doubt that for one minute. It's just a matter of controlling those emotions and not letting those emotions control me! I am going to be as vigilant as possible to make sure I'm in control of those emotions, especially around her. I may have to come here and vent or spiral out of control but that's better than doing it in front of her.
Thanks for always checking in!
Minor update:
Had a stupid text snafu happen to me on Friday! Why this crap happens I don't know but it gets comical after awhile.
So, UPS guy shows up at work and tells me these packages need a signature. I oblige and as I'm grabbing the boxes, notice they are addressed to W at her new apartment address. Small town deal where UPS guy knows us and knew I was at the office to sign for them.
I text W that I signed for 2 packages for her and let her know that I think she can pre-sign for packages on the UPS app in the future. She texts me back and was questioning why they needed signatures because they were from amazon and that if he drops any more packages off for her to just tell him to call her cell. That she expects packages to be delivered to the address and that she doesn't expect anyone else to sign for and hold her packages.
In the meantime, I got a text from a friend asking how I was and what's been going on in my life. So I update them about W moving out eventually and tell them about this package ordeal since it had just taken place.
AND I send that message to W instead of friend. It said "She was pleasant about it at least and told me to just have the delivery man call her phone if he needs to deliver something and she doesn't expect anyone to hold packages for her. So I said will do."
Now her response is a PERFECT EXAMPLE of WW mentality. She texts me, "Who is that you're texting such petty things about me?"
I respond, "I didn't think calling you pleasant was petty but I'm sorry you feel that way."
So then she goes on about how she meant petty as in the topic, not an insult. She said the fact that I feel the need to relay something so insignificant to someone else, ya da ya da ya da. At the end of that text she writes, "Do you have any desire to head out of town tonight/tomorrow or go do something during the day on Saturday so I can spend time with the kids? I miss them like crazy and I’m not sure we can endure another weekend at home together with you the way things have been going. Definitely not telling you what to do, just asking if you’re interested."
CLASSIC rewriting of history right there as well! 'We can't endure another weekend together at home'...funny because after last weekend when we had the discussion where I told her I wanted her moved out as soon as possible, she still wanted to invite me to go out of town for the day with the kids to see Santa. And nothing has literally happened since then!
I just responded that "if i make plans, I'll give you a heads up. If I'm there, I'll be scarce. Trust me."
So, I got out of the house a bit on Saturday and tried to keep busy around the yard, etc. most of the day. We all went to mass together Saturday night. I didn't really want to go with her, but I wouldn't be able to attend Sunday morning since we were needing to get ready for D5's (now 6!) birthday party. Party went good. W didn't go out of her way to interact with me. I did need to run to the store to get some stuff so I asked her if she needed anything else for the party and gave me a list. I thought since it was for D b-day party, I would ask if there was anything else that was needed. Plus I'm trying to act 'as if'. I've been pretty upbeat and happy around her all weekend. To be honest, haven't really been all that depressed or sad when I'm along in the MBR either. I think I'm slowly becoming detached and have moved on to accepting what's probably going to happen.
Still haven't heard a word from her on what she wants me to do with the D papers. I asked her for her thoughts and feelings about them last tuesday and not a word as been spoken to me. Thinking I'll just continue to 'do nothing.'
I made that mistake a few times, thankfully the messages were benign so no harm done. Lots of potential for headaches there though. So I triple check the sendee before texting or IM'ing now!
Ok, now you are making me want to just sign my D papers and file them myself. To hell with waiting around to see what W thinks or what she wants......
Is your W involved with OM?
I made that mistake a few times, thankfully the messages were benign so no harm done. Lots of potential for headaches there though. So I triple check the sendee before texting or IM'ing now!
Yup....it could have been way worse. Luckily, I called her 'pleasant' and not something more in line with how she really has been! Of course, like I shared above, with the WW scrambled egg brain she still had to find cause in it.
Ok, now you are making me want to just sign my D papers and file them myself. To hell with waiting around to see what W thinks or what she wants......
Is your W involved with OM?
Good question. I don't know. Last I was told, she cut contact with him, in person, the last week of October. No clue if contact has remained or not. It wouldn't surprise me if it hasn't ceased, tbh.
I have a very sneaking suspicion that the conversation her and OM had back in October was more or less, 'let's cool it until I'm divorced and then once that happens we will be free to start back up.' Or something to that effect. I'm sure that d-bag played right into and offered to "wait" for her. Piece of #@$. Anyway, trying not to be concerned with it anymore!
This is from the daily reflections I received today from Dynamic Catholic. Man, does it speak to most of us here....
I've never doubted that God has plans for us, but knowing that God has plans for me and knowing what those plans are, are completely different things.
God really hung in there with me during the divorce. I was so afraid all of the time, not knowing what was gonna happen next or what the future would be. And that fear started impacting all aspects of my life. I prayed to God all the time about it. He gave me a pretty good talking to, and in my heart, he said, “If you're living in fear, you really don't trust that I've got this—that I've got you. You have to give it over to me, because if you keep digging in your heels and holding on to that control, you're going to continue to be scared and afraid.”
So I let go of all of the hurt and the loss and the anger. And slowly, I started to feel joy again. The joy in such a tough situation is how I knew that I was trusting God—trusting in his plans.
What about you? When has it been difficult to see God's plans for you?
Journaling....
WW told me 10 days ago (via text) that the initial pleadings she drew up were in a drawer in our MH and that 'if I want to get the process started, that's where they are and I need to sign the Certificate of Service.' (this was in response to me expressing my desire that if the end game is her moving out, I'd rather she do it as soon as possible rather than waiting around) I didn't respond to that text right away. Later on in the day, I had a weak moment and asked her if she wanted me to sign it so she could file right away. I said I wanted her thoughts and feelings on this. I told her this is her decision, not mine, but I won't stand in the way anymore.
Not sure if that would be considered pursuit or not, but on the flip side, I haven't heard boo from her since. She never responded to my text and she hasn't said anything more about it in the meantime.
Yesterday I was out of town and took the document with me to have notarized. I didn't want to do it in town for probably some weak and stupid reasons. I didn't want anyone knowing my business yet.....So, I signed the document and had it notarized and put it right back in the drawer when I got home. I'm not telling her that I did it. The initial text from 10 days ago went on to say that I could scan and email them to her and she would file them. That would require me doing some work toward getting a D IMO. I'm not going to do that. If she wants to file, she can either respond to my inquiry from 10 days ago or if she goes into the drawer to look at the paperwork, she will notice my signature is there and she can take them and file them. The ball is in her court. I didn't stand in the way by not signing, but I'm also not actively engaged in getting it filed either.
Now, this morning, I went to the drawer to see if the papers were still in there and they are gone. I think she was tidying up the surrounding area and put some more stuff in the drawer that was left out and noticed them. She must have them. I must not be as detached as I thought I was because now I have an uneasy feeling. I'm not spiraling out of control or anything, just an uneasy feeling of anticipation to see when the guillotine will be dropped on my neck.
W,
You are three months in and believe me when I tell you that you are no way close to being detached.
I have this sneaky suspicion that you thought you would get a reaction from her when she found the papers.
Just remember that her filing for D is not necessarily the end of the story.
Then focus in your actions W1. More detach and cut expectations. Keep GAL.
You need to be strong and consistent with your attitude. We know it´s hard but what isn´t?
Keep moving forward W1. Keep DB.
Journaling....
WW told me 10 days ago (via text) that the initial pleadings she drew up were in a drawer in our MH
Now, this morning, I went to the drawer to see if the papers were still in there and they are gone. I think she was tidying up the surrounding area and put some more stuff in the drawer that was left out and noticed them.
She knew where they were.
W,
You are three months in and believe me when I tell you that you are no way close to being detached.
I have this sneaky suspicion that you thought you would get a reaction from her when she found the papers.
Just remember that her filing for D is not necessarily the end of the story.
I know that it should and will take me longer than 3 months to detach. I think I thought I was further along than I really am. I do want to claim a slight victory in that I believe I am on the right path. The papers being gone didn't send me into a downward spiral like it probably would have done had it happened a month ago. I just feel uneasy. Not shellshocked, scared or full of fear. I wish detaching was a quicker process than it appears to be. I suppose everyone feels that way though!
I honestly did not do it to get a reaction from her one way or another. She told me they were there and that 'IF I wanted to get the 60 day cool down period started, I could sign them and scan and email them to her and she would file them." Notice the turnaround as though it is ME wanting to file? I never got a response from her when I requested her thoughts and feelings on whether or not SHE wanted to file right away. I told her I would not stand in the way anymore and I don't intend to. Set her free, right? So, I signed the papers and put them right back where she left them. I feel like if I wanted a reaction, I would have told her that I signed them. That is something Wanted1.0 would have done probably. Sort of a 'let's see who blinks first' type of a game. I also didn't scan and email them to her as she originally requested. My thought process on this was I will sign what I need to and then the ball is in her court. She is now free to do as she pleases, whether that be to file or hold them for awhile. I am not going to acknowledge to her that I know they are gone either.
I do know that her filing isn't the end of the story. Just another step in the perceived inevitable direction. Part of me feels like she is SO guarded with me on how she feels about everything and is SO determined to not give me ANY sneaking suspicion of her hesitation that she might file them immediately so there isn't any perception that she might still be unsure. I don't know. Need to stop trying to read minds. I guess her filing doesn't mean she isn't still unsure either. We still have to wait 60 days minimum for anything to be final anyway. Things could change after filing, but I have zero expectations that they will.
Journaling....
WW told me 10 days ago (via text) that the initial pleadings she drew up were in a drawer in our MH
Now, this morning, I went to the drawer to see if the papers were still in there and they are gone. I think she was tidying up the surrounding area and put some more stuff in the drawer that was left out and noticed them.
She knew where they were.
Yes she knew where they were because she put them there. I don't think she knew I had signed them yesterday. There's literally no way that she could have known.
Well, that didn’t take long! It’s been filed. Found it on the judicial website I have access to. No word from W about any of it. Lol. Her communication skills are so pi$$ poor. Time for GAL all weekend!
Good luck! My WW will probably file right after Christmas. I am curious to see if she goes full smear campaign or not regarding custody.
Right behind you guys. I hit the end of our 6-month S requirement on the 23rd...
Good luck! My WW will probably file right after Christmas. I am curious to see if she goes full smear campaign or not regarding custody.
I’m contemplating answering the complaint and denying “irreconcilable differences” as the grounds and pleading adultery. Not to “get back at her” but to protect myself if she wants to start going against her word on what we’ve already sort of verbally agreed to if this was going to happen. I have 30 days to mull it over......
Good luck! My WW will probably file right after Christmas. I am curious to see if she goes full smear campaign or not regarding custody.
I’m contemplating answering the complaint and denying “irreconcilable differences” as the grounds and pleading adultery. Not to “get back at her” but to protect myself if she wants to start going against her word on what we’ve already sort of verbally agreed to if this was going to happen. I have 30 days to mull it over......
As you would rather save the MR, it seems to me that her claiming “irreconcilable differences” is like a burglar wanting to take joint responsibility with their victim because the victim left a door unlocked. Personally, if she's committed adultery then I'd be honest and list that and let her take responsibly for her own actions. I wouldn't trust the word of a WW as they will say and do anything to get what they want, so look to protect yourself and don't leave it to chance.
Journaling
This weekend was hard. W and I decided to tell the kids last night which we sort of had a pregame meeting about. She told me that one of her friend's kids that is in Kindergarten came home and told her mom that "X's mom and dad are getting a 'vorce and it's happening tonight." It wasn't our situation she was talking about but it came as a shock to W and then obviously to me when W told me this story that kids in Kindergarten are talking about such things. So, during the pregame, W said we need to assure the kids that they are still loved, that Mom and Dad are going through some adult things and that Mom has decided to get a place of her own so the kids will now have two bedrooms and sometimes they will stay with dad and sometimes they will stay with mom.
I initially told W that I wasn't going to lie to them if they had questions. That if a question is asked, I was going to tell them we need to let mom do what makes her happy. She of course lost it and said I can't say that because then the kids will jump to the conclusion that mom isn't happy with them in this house (well, isn't that pretty much the case?!) She called me a child and that it's so hard to communicate with me, etc. etc. etc. I ended up relenting and told her I wasn't going to say a word. She can do the talking. She of course had a problem with that too but I just said, let's go do it and get it over with.
The talk went as good as could be expected I guess. S3 and D6 didn't really say much. S3 pretty much had no clue what was going on and I don't think was even listening to us. D6's questions were basically asking where the apartment was. D7 started off somewhat excited and then I think she realized what was going on and started hugging W and kind of tearing up. That caused me a tear up too. Not full blown crying but I had tears in my eyes. However, during the talk, W made it a point to say to the kids, "If anyone at school asks you if your parents are divorced or getting a divorced, we are not." Either she said "we are not" or "we are not at this time." I can't recall exactly. I'm not sure why she said that? Thoughts? I mean, she filed December 21st. We were emailing property settlement offers back and forth last week. I don't get why she would make it a point to mention that to the kids.....I'm not expecting it means anything just more or less curious about her thought process there.
This morning we all went to Mass together. There was breakfast after Mass and W told the kids they could go look at the apartment after the breakfast. I drove separately to Mass because I didn't want to go to the breakfast and had no interest in going to the apartment with them. W texted me as they were headed tot the apartment and told me I'm welcome to come over. I responded with "I just don't think I can. Thanks for the invite." I didn't see them the rest of the day. I decided to take a drive this afternoon and get some groceries which was about an hour drive away. As I was leaving, I texted W and asked if I should pick up supper and they could meet me at the house. She said sure. Half way home, she texts me that the kids really want me to come to the apartment. They want to show me it and they made cookies and were already bathed and in pajamas but it was my call if I wanted to go over there or not. If I didn't, she would load them up and come to the house. I didn't respond right away. About a half hour later she asked again. I said, "The kids come first, I'll just come there and eat quick." I got there and the kids were all so excited to show me their room. They had drawn pictures for me and showed me the cookies they baked. We ate and I was there for a total of about 20 min. Then came the part where I had to say goodbye. They plan to stay with W until Wednesday because Thursday the kids and I leave for a vacation I booked about 2 mo ago. They won't see W for about 5 days, so I think its' only right that they spend some time with her. That goodbye was really tough. It hit me what was going on. I held it together until I got outside the building. I couldn't catch my breath. Once I got home as I was putting groceries away I couldn't stop crying.
The house is SO quiet. This will be the first night of my new life where I don't have my kids everyday. It's so weird, 6 mo ago I would look forward to nights where I didn't have kid responsibilities. Now, all I want is my family back together again. Those stupid "why me? what did I do to deserve this" thoughts came creeping in. I tried to suppress them quickly but this just blows. I'm sure tonight will be the worst and it will gradually get better....
On another note, a week ago or so, W texted me something the basically inferred that my DBing showed her that I didn't want her back. That my actions showed her her decision to leave, file, etc. were justified. I didn't respond. I thought about that text again last night as I was lying in bed. Wondering if I would have done something different for these past 2 months would have changed anything. Then I remembered reading a vet's advice on another thread the other day which basically inferred that it doesn't matter what you do, you will always be wrong and/or it will never be enough. I think that pretty much is the case for me. I could have done everything absolutely perfect and I would be willing to bet I would be in the same place I am right now. Of course, W wants me to think differently. Rewriting history trying to now say she hasn't had 2 feet out the door since Sept. Actions speak louder than words, however.
This vacation with my kids is coming at a very opportune time.
So sorry to hear this. There will be other difficult things to deal with, I believe the day that the children find out is the hardest.
Become "Supper Dad" while it is your parenting time.
Now is a good time for you to double down on your DBing efforts as well. Reread sandi list as well as all the links you received right after your first post.
Take stock of what you have done, what you believe is the right thing to do. Come up with a plan and execute the plan.
Sorry again.
So sorry to hear this. There will be other difficult things to deal with, I believe the day that the children find out is the hardest.
Become "Supper Dad" while it is your parenting time.
Now is a good time for you to double down on your DBing efforts as well. Reread sandi list as well as all the links you received right after your first post.
Take stock of what you have done, what you believe is the right thing to do. Come up with a plan and execute the plan.
Sorry again.
Thank you, RC. I will go back and read those. That is very good advice. I need to focus on making them permanent and not second guessing whether what I’m doing is the right thing or if it’ll be a slip up. Almost needs to be calculated until it becomes second nature which is the hardest.
The house is SO quiet. This will be the first night of my new life where I don't have my kids everyday. It's so weird, 6 mo ago I would look forward to nights where I didn't have kid responsibilities. Now, all I want is my family back together again. Those stupid "why me? what did I do to deserve this" thoughts came creeping in. I tried to suppress them quickly but this just blows. I'm sure tonight will be the worst and it will gradually get better....
This part that you're going through was I think the hardest part for me. It does get better and it will happen quickly, but nevertheless it's miserable hell right now and I am sorry you're going through it.
On another note, a week ago or so, W texted me something the basically inferred that my DBing showed her that I didn't want her back. That my actions showed her her decision to leave, file, etc. were justified. I didn't respond. I thought about that text again last night as I was lying in bed. Wondering if I would have done something different for these past 2 months would have changed anything. Then I remembered reading a vet's advice on another thread the other day which basically inferred that it doesn't matter what you do, you will always be wrong and/or it will never be enough.
Yes, absolutely. Like most WAS's she is busy justifying her position and shifting the blame to you. It's your fault she wanted out of the M, and it's your fault she is staying out of the M. It's just the typical rewriting of history.
Journaling --
Nothing really major to report. Kids and I went on the vacation I booked back in November. W was pretty anxiety filled prior to us leaving. She came to the house to say goodbye the night before we left and as she was leaving I thanked her for being OK with me taking the kids on the vacation and I got a pretty nasty sneer. Oh well.
A couple days prior to us leaving, on a day when I had the kids, my oldest (D7) said to me "Mom said she wasn't invited on the vacation." I told D7 that that isn't true at all. (W would have been invited if she wanted to be part of the family moving forward. She knew this, I believe) I asked W about this and she said she did not say that, that she told them this was Daddy's special trip with them. Not sure who to believe. I find it hard to believe that D7 would make that up but who knows...
The vacation was awesome. Kids had so much fun! It was a great time. We got back last week and then I left last weekend for some GAL with a couple friends.
I'm not sure if I wrote about this in my previous posts because it's been awhile, but prior to leaving on the vacation, I told W I need to see her proposed settlement and custody agreement. She gave it to me the week before we left (2 weeks ago) and of course it was almost a complete 180 from what she verbally agreed to beforehand and what we've talked about. We emailed back and forth a couple times regarding it and the last email that was sent was me explaining to her the reasons why I don't think I need to pay her any type of a settlement in the amount she had proposed in the draft she created. I still haven't heard back from her. She has not responded to it or given me any type of a counter-offer. Is this a sign of her dragging her feet? Not sure. I'm curious about it though. Also, the fact that she purposefully made it a point to tell our kids during their BD that we aren't getting a D really boggles my mind. If I remember right, as she was telling them we aren't getting a D she sort of trailed off with a 'at least not right now.' Very interesting to me......What am I going to do about it? Nothing. I'm going to wait her out and see if/when she finally brings something back to me. The ball is in her hands. If she wants to play ball she is going to have to do something with it.
W,
It is not uncommon for the WW to give false hope prior to an agreement in hopes it may influence a favorable settlement.
I agree with you that the ball is in her court and you need to just wait for a response.
Well, it's been a while for me, but today is D day. W finally agreed to most of my demands in how we would split up property, custody, etc. I relented on a few minor things that I can live with. I believe I have truly detached after a long road of getting there. No emotion, really, today whatsoever. It is sad to think that 9.5 years will now be over with the stroke of a judge's pen but what can you do. I'm not focusing on that, I'm focusing on a bright future ahead.
Our 60 day cooling off period was up last week. I hadn't heard a thing from W regarding property division, etc. since very early in January. The weekend before last, I decided to send her a message and let her know that we need to get this finished up. I'll be honest and say that part of that was because I received unsolicited information that OM sent her flowers on Valentine's Day to her work. That was the final straw. I was willing to 'do nothing' for awhile, but I finally decided that I'm over it. Over her and over the situation. I wasn't willing to subject myself to her and the process any longer. She sent me a revised draft of an agreement on Wednesday and we both signed Friday and sent it to the court for the judge to sign the order. After she had signed, I told her that I simply wanted her to end our marriage with some honestly and admit to me that she lied when she said she wasn't naive enough to think that the grass is greener elsewhere and to admit that she lied to me when she told me she was going to cease communication with him until our relationship was completely over. Of course she couldn't be honest with me and told me that the flowers were anonymous and that she felt she was better off alone. Both lies. I laughed to myself and thought, good riddance.
I had a GAL trip with some friends at the beginning of February. Met a girl who will be very long distance but we have been talking a ton for the past 4 weeks or so. The amount of things we have in common is utterly mind blowing. A couple nights ago she text me "you seem too good to be true." I can't tell you how great it felt to hear that from such a beautiful woman. We have plans to meet up in a couple weeks. I truly believe the distance factor will help simply because the dynamics of it will require us to take things slow and I'll still have quite a bit of time on my own and for myself. It won't be like I'm jumping into a full blown relationship right away.
I cannot say whether or not DB would have work in my situation had I followed everyone's advice from the get go. Part of me thinks it wouldn't have made a difference. But, I will say that I think it absolutely expedited the process of moving on and becoming a better individual. I truly appreciate everyone's comments and advice that they have given me on here and also found comfort and additional advice and the like in following some of the other sitches. If I were to give any newcomer any tidbits, it would be to listen to the vets and do as they say immediately. I didn't at first and like I already said, I can't say whether it would have helped save my marriage or not, I just know that nothing else worked so you might as well use their knowledge to your advantage.
I hope to continue to check the forum out and keep up on some of the sitches I've been following. I know none of us want D, but I've come around to the line of thinking that mine is probably for the best. I hate it for my kids. I hate that I won't be able to spend every day and every holiday with them, but I also know that I'll make the most of every day and holiday I do get with them and they will always come first. Someday, they will understand what I went through and hopefully they will look at me with that much more admiration, appreciation and respect.
Wanted,
If DB didn't help you save you MR then yeah the side effect was helping you better yourself. If I recall you had it pretty bad from the get go, but you are here now and still moving forward. You can always come over the the dark-side (surviving the big D) there are some vets on there with really good experiences and advice to share post-D.
Wanted,
If DB didn't help you save you MR then yeah the side effect was helping you better yourself. If I recall you had it pretty bad from the get go, but you are here now and still moving forward. You can always come over the the dark-side (surviving the big D) there are some vets on there with really good experiences and advice to share post-D.
That's a great idea. Is that board as active as this one?
Wanted,
If DB didn't help you save you MR then yeah the side effect was helping you better yourself. If I recall you had it pretty bad from the get go, but you are here now and still moving forward. You can always come over the the dark-side (surviving the big D) there are some vets on there with really good experiences and advice to share post-D.
That's a great idea. Is that board as active as this one?
Its active, but not as active as this one. I has fewer viewers and I think they all have been around for a long time. They all post here from time to time and some newcomers go over there and post from time to time.
Here is an analogy.
Newcomers is where everyone shows up because they are bleeding out and in a panic they are trying to stop the bleed. Surviving the Big D is full of people who stopped the bleeding, had the arm amputated, and now are learning to or have learned to live without it.
had the arm amputated, and now are learning to or have learned to live without it.
I now have 5 arms.
Journaling --
Nothing really major to report. Kids and I went on the vacation I booked back in November. W was pretty anxiety filled prior to us leaving. She came to the house to say goodbye the night before we left and as she was leaving I thanked her for being OK with me taking the kids on the vacation and I got a pretty nasty sneer. Oh well.
A couple days prior to us leaving, on a day when I had the kids, my oldest (D7) said to me "Mom said she wasn't invited on the vacation." I told D7 that that isn't true at all. (W would have been invited if she wanted to be part of the family moving forward. She knew this, I believe) I asked W about this and she said she did not say that, that she told them this was Daddy's special trip with them. Not sure who to believe. I find it hard to believe that D7 would make that up but who knows...
The vacation was awesome. Kids had so much fun! It was a great time. We got back last week and then I left last weekend for some GAL with a couple friends.
I'm not sure if I wrote about this in my previous posts because it's been awhile, but prior to leaving on the vacation, I told W I need to see her proposed settlement and custody agreement. She gave it to me the week before we left (2 weeks ago) and of course it was almost a complete 180 from what she verbally agreed to beforehand and what we've talked about. We emailed back and forth a couple times regarding it and the last email that was sent was me explaining to her the reasons why I don't think I need to pay her any type of a settlement in the amount she had proposed in the draft she created. I still haven't heard back from her. She has not responded to it or given me any type of a counter-offer. Is this a sign of her dragging her feet? Not sure. I'm curious about it though. Also, the fact that she purposefully made it a point to tell our kids during their BD that we aren't getting a D really boggles my mind. If I remember right, as she was telling them we aren't getting a D she sort of trailed off with a 'at least not right now.' Very interesting to me......What am I going to do about it? Nothing. I'm going to wait her out and see if/when she finally brings something back to me. The ball is in her hands. If she wants to play ball she is going to have to do something with it.
My WW is doing the same with the settlement. Tells me one thing and tries to low ball me on the settlement. Then threatens to fight custody if i want more.
Journaling --
Nothing really major to report. Kids and I went on the vacation I booked back in November. W was pretty anxiety filled prior to us leaving. She came to the house to say goodbye the night before we left and as she was leaving I thanked her for being OK with me taking the kids on the vacation and I got a pretty nasty sneer. Oh well.
A couple days prior to us leaving, on a day when I had the kids, my oldest (D7) said to me "Mom said she wasn't invited on the vacation." I told D7 that that isn't true at all. (W would have been invited if she wanted to be part of the family moving forward. She knew this, I believe) I asked W about this and she said she did not say that, that she told them this was Daddy's special trip with them. Not sure who to believe. I find it hard to believe that D7 would make that up but who knows...
The vacation was awesome. Kids had so much fun! It was a great time. We got back last week and then I left last weekend for some GAL with a couple friends.
I'm not sure if I wrote about this in my previous posts because it's been awhile, but prior to leaving on the vacation, I told W I need to see her proposed settlement and custody agreement. She gave it to me the week before we left (2 weeks ago) and of course it was almost a complete 180 from what she verbally agreed to beforehand and what we've talked about. We emailed back and forth a couple times regarding it and the last email that was sent was me explaining to her the reasons why I don't think I need to pay her any type of a settlement in the amount she had proposed in the draft she created. I still haven't heard back from her. She has not responded to it or given me any type of a counter-offer. Is this a sign of her dragging her feet? Not sure. I'm curious about it though. Also, the fact that she purposefully made it a point to tell our kids during their BD that we aren't getting a D really boggles my mind. If I remember right, as she was telling them we aren't getting a D she sort of trailed off with a 'at least not right now.' Very interesting to me......What am I going to do about it? Nothing. I'm going to wait her out and see if/when she finally brings something back to me. The ball is in her hands. If she wants to play ball she is going to have to do something with it.
My WW is doing the same with the settlement. Tells me one thing and tries to low ball me on the settlement. Then threatens to fight custody if i want more.
Yep. I had the same scenario for awhile as you can see. She agreed to my stipulations right after BD. Then came back and said she was under "duress" and never agreed to anything. Funny, because she drafted the divorce agreement back then with everything the way I wanted it but no use arguing. I think in my situation, she realized there was no way I was going to back down and she probably was a little concerned about everything coming to light in court hearings, so she eventually relented. She changed a few minor things around that benefited her but I got the vast majority of what I was asking so I agreed to the rest.
Hey W, DB is about saving ourselves first. Remember that.
Kids will no longer be kids someday. You can teach them how to fly but you can´t follow their flight...
Be there for the kids, be THE SAFE PARENT for them. There´s DB after D, get into it.
So, keep moving forward W, and keep DB.
(((Wanted)))
Just a random question I want to throw out there and get everyone's advice/suggestions on. For those of you that are D, what did you do with your wedding band?
Sell it?
Still have it in some drawer never to be seen again?
Trade it in on an engagement ring for your 2nd chance?
Mine is a pretty expensive band. Diamonds all the way around it. My D became final this week and I'm curious what everyone did with theirs. One option that I thought about the other day was the possibility of keeping it for my son when he grows up since it is such a nice one. But, maybe that's some voodoo/bad karma thing that I don't want to pass on to him!
Still have it in some drawer never to be seen again?
Yeah. I wouldn't pass it on. Maybe sell it... or stick it in a drawer to forget about it.
My W took mine when she left the house. I dunno if I even want to ask for it back...
I left my wedding band in my WWs room after I confirmed A. Its probably about a grand worth of gold. Ill get it back and sell it for scrap before I move out.
I stuck my ring in the firebox. I will take it to the grave or pass it on to the kids. I see it as a memento to remind me of the good times in my MR, and to remind me that my MR resulted in my children. I also have XW rings as well. Eventually, I may have to give them to her and I forgot to get my half of the value of them in the D. They are worth a nice chunk of change. She says she wants to hold them and give them to our girls. I think she just wants to sell them. I dunno just do what feels right to you.
I handed my ring to MsR2c when she handed me D papers. I am sure she sold her ring to pay for expenses during D. Wish I still had that diamond.
Well, it’s been over a year since the BD. I haven’t been on my thread since shortly after my D was final as you can see but I’ve been coming back on here to read other peoples sitches. It’s somewhat therapeutic for me for some reason and I like to pay it forward by helping out here and there when I can.
Things have been going well for the most part. I never in my wildest dreams thought at this time last year I would be where I am today. I am happy with where my life is and truly feel I’m in a better place being D. Honest to god. No more stress, shame and embarrassment that comes with being married to a serial cheater. No more walking on eggshells in a R and all that “fun” stuff.
With that said, the one part that really still irritates me is ExW is still with AP3. Seems to be going strong still after over a year. I will never accept him. He was a crucial part in destroying my kids’ family and I know if it wasn’t him it would be someone else, but it was him and thus I have no time for immoral people.
This past Sunday, exW FaceTimed D6’s iPad while they were with me at the house. I’ve never prevented FT although I’ve been a little concerned with the frequency of said calls from exW. We are on a 2-2-5-5 arrangement and she will call numerous times during the 5 day stretch I have them. I, on the other hand, respect her time with them and usually just FT once during her 5 day stretch. This call on Sunday, however, took an interesting turn. While they were talking, AP3 all of a sudden appeared on the screen. I was right next to them at the kitchen counter and when I saw him appear I ended the call. The kids didn’t seem to mind too much but exW proceeded to try to call back numerous times which I just ignored. She then text me telling me I need to allow their mother to talk to them. I told her I have no problem with her talking to them but I refuse to accommodate ‘someone else,’ given the history, to interact with my kids when it’s my time with them. That is my right and my decision. It’s a boundary that I will enforce.
Was it wrong? Maybe. But I don’t really care. It was inappropriate in my opinion that she allowed that to happen and him to think it was OK. I would never dream to allow my SO to FaceTime the kids when they are with their mother and my relationship with her wasn’t a contributing factor to the D.
I wish, so bad, this POS would just go away. Disappear. If it was ANYONE else I would be absolutely fine with it.
Question for the vets here.....is this R between them seriously viable? I was hoping it would fizzle out by now. It hasn’t and I’m beginning to wonder if this jackoff is going to be a part of my life and my kids’ lives for the long haul.
Well, it’s been over a year since the BD. I haven’t been on my thread since shortly after my D was final as you can see but I’ve been coming back on here to read other peoples sitches. It’s somewhat therapeutic for me for some reason and I like to pay it forward by helping out here and there when I can.
Things have been going well for the most part. I never in my wildest dreams thought at this time last year I would be where I am today. I am happy with where my life is and truly feel I’m in a better place being D. Honest to god. No more stress, shame and embarrassment that comes with being married to a serial cheater. No more walking on eggshells in a R and all that “fun” stuff.
With that said, the one part that really still irritates me is ExW is still with AP3. Seems to be going strong still after over a year. I will never accept him. He was a crucial part in destroying my kids’ family and I know if it wasn’t him it would be someone else, but it was him and thus I have no time for immoral people.
This past Sunday, exW FaceTimed D6’s iPad while they were with me at the house. I’ve never prevented FT although I’ve been a little concerned with the frequency of said calls from exW. We are on a 2-2-5-5 arrangement and she will call numerous times during the 5 day stretch I have them. I, on the other hand, respect her time with them and usually just FT once during her 5 day stretch. This call on Sunday, however, took an interesting turn. While they were talking, AP3 all of a sudden appeared on the screen. I was right next to them at the kitchen counter and when I saw him appear I ended the call. The kids didn’t seem to mind too much but exW proceeded to try to call back numerous times which I just ignored. She then text me telling me I need to allow their mother to talk to them. I told her I have no problem with her talking to them but I refuse to accommodate ‘someone else,’ given the history, to interact with my kids when it’s my time with them. That is my right and my decision. It’s a boundary that I will enforce.
Was it wrong? Maybe. But I don’t really care. It was inappropriate in my opinion that she allowed that to happen and him to think it was OK. I would never dream to allow my SO to FaceTime the kids when they are with their mother and my relationship with her wasn’t a contributing factor to the D.
I wish, so bad, this POS would just go away. Disappear. If it was ANYONE else I would be absolutely fine with it.
Question for the vets here.....is this R between them seriously viable? I was hoping it would fizzle out by now. It hasn’t and I’m beginning to wonder if this jackoff is going to be a part of my life and my kids’ lives for the long haul.
Wanted, glad to hear you are doing well! I don't think you did anything wrong blocking OM from talking to the kids, like you said it is your time with them and your XW should respect that boundary since you are giving up some of your time to allow her to talk to them.
As for whether their R will last or not, most of the time it doesn't when it starts out as an affair because the R is established on a foundation of lies to begin with, it's like building a mansion on sand, it might stand a while but sooner or later it will topple. Also you have to consider that if your W did this once her chances of doing it again go up. As soon as their R takes a difficult turn she'll start looking for an escape. There are exceptions to every rule so no one can say for sure. If it does fizzle it will probably happen in the next year or so I would think. The first year is pretty easy because it's all sunshine and rainbows. Once they move in together and have to start paying bills and dealing with each other's quirks then it becomes real.
Question for the vets here.....is this R between them seriously viable? I was hoping it would fizzle out by now. It hasn’t and I’m beginning to wonder if this jackoff is going to be a part of my life and my kids’ lives for the long haul.
Nobody knows. When you get to the point that you don't care things will be better.. But I wouldn't let them know it bothers you because that may empower them. If people or your kids don't get it just tell them why you don't like the guy and have no reason to speak to him.
Good update!