Re: MY TRAGIC WAW STORY PART XIII

PREVIOUS THREAD HERE...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2818737&#Post2818737

Hi ItHurts, it seems you handled the situation well. You followed your ex-wife's signals and responded accordingly. You never expected this to happen after four years and you don't know what circumstances will be like in another four, eight, or twelve years so perhaps thinking long-term you can keep your options open. It sounds like your ex-wife said she's open to starting over but gave many signs that she wants to take it slow. Perhaps getting romantic too quickly was too much for her. It'll be interesting to hear your update after you speak with her again!

Hi there Nicole,
Well I'm pretty sure I know what she's going to say...seems kind of obvious to me really. I'm just prepping my reply at this point to best make it crystal clear to her that R is all I'm interested in as far as her being in my life. If not then I just walk and don't look back. At least I'll be leaving the door open still...just nowhere near as wide as it's been opened for her. She can go back to dating all the wonderful men she's told me about thus far LOL! Hasta levista baby! I'm nobody's fool. So we'll see Nicole. I have no idea why she just vanished from that text like that. Something is going on, I've sensed that since she showed up at my work two weeks ago to get me to see the movie with her. There's just something going on with her, I can sense it so, so strongly like never before. Time will tell as always but I think this "talk" is going to finally be the end to my WAW saga after all these years. That's what I'm predicting.

I know where you stand IH but I don�t get why are you pushing so hard now. Too much expectations triggered with the last two weeks developments?...I know man, I know you have travelled a long road...do you have any patience left? Imho you�ll need some more here.

Hi neffer,
Well yes I have to admit my patience is gone with her. I guess I'm pushing so hard with her because I feel like she's had plenty of time to figure this out. She first contacted me in like March, 6 months ago now. Yet there had been absolutely no progression whatsoever with her. Had I seen at some semblance of us progressing perhaps I'd be a bit more patient but I'm starting to feel like I'm in an endless rinse and repeat cycle with her now. So I don't really see what having more patience will accomplish here. Unless you're seeing something I'm missing.
Why do you suggest more patience?

Because we all have hope and expectatives for everybody here IH. And they both go better with patience...

Well my patience will really depend on what she has to say with this talk about "our friendship."
How could I possibly have more patience with her if she comes out and says she does not think R is on the horizon nor does she want it? That leaves me no wiggle room for patience. Every time I've brought up R her reply is usually "Okay well let's just sit on this for awhile." What in hell does that really mean? This is what I've got to get to the bottom of once and for all when we have this talk.

If i may butt in here, id guess patience would be needed if she truly wsnts R, but is genuinely scared and playing it cautiously. If thats what she wants, she probably cant just jump right into MR and take off running.

I have no idea what runs through WS heads, but im just taking a shot in the dark.

Edit:i dont mean being patient while she figures oit what she wants, but rather proceeds with R as the objective.

Well equal,
As I said above (you and I posted at the same time) it all stems from what she really means when she says "Let's just sit on this for awhile." That's the core issue here that needs clarification.

Yep, you need to have the talk first...

Agreed but I haven't heard from her again yet about this talk. Strange. I don't know what's going on with her.
Very strange she'd say that and then just disappear like she did. Also wondering why she asked me where I was at that time. Something's going on with her.

Patience man...sorry I had to say it...

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Hi there Nicole,
Well I'm pretty sure I know what she's going to say...seems kind of obvious to me really. I'm just prepping my reply at this point to best make it crystal clear to her that R is all I'm interested in as far as her being in my life.

IH, let me ask you this. What can you possibly say to her that you didn't say here:

Quote

"you're establishing a pattern here...basically you complain to me about these clowns you date because they are not ME! They can't, and no one can, EVER give you the life you want...which is basically the one we both had for 18 years sans our problems that we've since rectified. It's getting stupid! I've told you before, I believe you belong with me...but I'm sure as [censored] not chasing you around and I can't force you to get your head out of your ass to see the obvious writing on the wall. Seriously WAW, this is just stupid now. You can't stay away, and now here you are, showing up at my work, trying to incite a rekindling of our Halloween traditions. Figure it out because this is stupid. Everything you've ever wanted you can have now. All I essentially hear from you is this ,"I went on a date and it sucked because he wasn't you. It's just a different date and a different name but that's always the moral of the story. It's obvious what you're suppose to be doing... getting back with me. You said it yourself when we talked R last time I saw you, it's the elephant in the room whenever we're together. You could have left it at that. Instead you show up here an hour ago. Why is that WAW? I sure know why it is, and you need to do the same. It tells me you obviously don't mind the elephant hanging with us. You know where I stand with getting back together. That's the extent of my initiation. It was you, my dear, who walked on me 4 years ago...you're just going to have to walk back if that's what you want. So I'll go see the movie, take you to dinner next Saturday after work. I'll also carve pumpkins the week after...BUT understand stand I'm not doing it to be your pal. You know my intentions and accept them. That's it WAW, that's all I got for ya'."

Brother, the time for talking is over. You already said it all, it's right ^^^THERE^^^ You had your date after this convo and she stuffed you firmly back into the friendzone. No more talking, you need to go well and truly dark on her. Don't reply to ANYTHING. I'd suggest blocking her on your phone and all social media. If she wants to talk to you bad enough she'll figure out a way, and at that point you can tell her "I said what I needed to say and you've made your intentions clear, there's nothing more to discuss." You're trying to "nice" her back and that just never, ever works.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Agreed but I haven't heard from her again yet about this talk. Strange. I don't know what's going on with her.
Very strange she'd say that and then just disappear like she did. Also wondering why she asked me where I was at that time. Something's going on with her.

Honestly, who cares. She's got issues, you'll never figure her out.

That's why you should have went for it when you were giving her the massage. If she rejected your advances you could have had the convo, walked out the door and never looked back. Playing it safe never works.

Well the reason I am even going to talk to her at all is because I am going to just point blank ask her if she has any desire to get back together. If she says no then yes, you can bet I am GONE right then and there. The trouble with the last convo that day at my work was it was rushed. I want to be off duty from work without interruptions and just listen to what she has to say. But make no mistake...if I don't hear what I want to hear from her she'll see darkness alright... you have no idea just how dark I plan to go let me tell you. Believe it. But I am going to make her come right out and either say she's open to working on a new relationship with me or she doesn't see it happening. I want a definitive answer and that answer will determine my action. This wondering where she's at is going to end one way or another with this little talk.

As far as going for it during the massage I've said it once and I'm not saying it again...it would have been a horrible idea. I follow my instincts when I am with her regarding sexual advances after living with her for 20 years...not yours. I've already addressed this a few posts back and I absolutely do not regret that decision in hindsight.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

Brother, the time for talking is over. You already said it all, it's right ^^^THERE^^^ You had your date after this convo and she stuffed you firmly back into the friendzone. No more talking, you need to go well and truly dark on her. Don't reply to ANYTHING. I'd suggest blocking her on your phone and all social media. If she wants to talk to you bad enough she'll figure out a way, and at that point you can tell her "I said what I needed to say and you've made your intentions clear, there's nothing more to discuss." You're trying to "nice" her back and that just never, ever works.

Well just to be clear, I am not 100% sure that she is not interested in R. That's my point in my last post. I don't want to hear "Let's just sit on this for awhile." That's too vague for my acceptance. I want to hear "No, I don't want to R and I don't see it as a possibility. I only want your friendship." THAT is what I want to hear to be sure. I haven't heard that yet from her but I'm going to give her no choice but to answer definitively. Telling me she wants us to "sit on this for awhile" can mean anything and that is not acceptable to me. So this is why there needs to be one more R talk. She's going to decide once and for all... definitively. No more BS. So yes your plan is my plan AS, I am just one more step away from executing that plan for the above reasons. There will be no doubt anymore. If she says she wants to just be friends and doesn't see R happening then that's when I tell her that our friendship isn't going to work and things should go back to the way they were before she ever reached out to me to begin with back in March. She goes her way and I go mine...and I'll also let her know I don't want texts or visits at work unless she decides to R. Otherwise stay far away from me. It will essentially be a good bye to her next time I see her unless she surprised me with some ephiphany she had. I want to know, definitively and without question before I walk away from this. I will be at peace that way without living with the doubt of whether I overreacted. So this is for me...for closure so I can keep on L-I-V-I-N' without doubts.

That�s understandable IH. That�s why I said you need to have a little more patience. I agree with you and everybody: you need to have the talk and get some answers. it�s for your own sake.

Yeah neffer. The problem with that convo when she came to my work thay day was it was totally unplanned. The conversation was a rushed one, standing in a busy parking lot at my work freezing. There needs to be a more quiet and appropriate convo. As I said, it's the moment of truth for her. She's going to have to give me a direct answer to this specific question so I can make my decision accordingly..."WAW, do you see us moving towards possible R or are you content just being friends?" Her answer to that question will determine what my course of action will be. If she says she's open to it and taking it slow...then great, I'll keep dating her. If she says she not interested in R and doesn't see it as a possibility then I tell her that we are on different pages and there's no point in spending time together anymore...that we should just go back to the way things were and live our separate lives. I'll wish her well, tell her not to contact me at all unless she wants to R and then I go dark. Then that's it. Either way this limbo is ending.

How are you so sure she won't feed you a line of crap to keep the friendship going?

There is no line of crap she can give me. It's going to be a direct question requiring a direct answer. I'm not tolerating any vague answer. "WAW, do you see us R or not?" If she says any crap other than yes of no then I I ask again and tell her it's a yes or no answer.

I would reword this: "WAW, do you see us moving towards possible R or are you content just being friends?"

To:

""WAW, do you see us moving towards possible R or are you ONLY INTERESTED just being friends?"

Yes Steve that's even better. Good idea.

IH:WAW: do you see us R or not?
WAW: Yes, but I want to take it slow.

Then the same friend zone $hit keeps happening that's been going on since March. You say something about no romance and she says I thought we were taking this slow?

When does it end?

Nope because if she says take it slow then my follow up will be..."Well taking it slow towards R means I'm not accepting little lame peck kisses. You're going to have to SHOW ME from now on. Little useless peck kisses is not moving towards R WAW. If you are serious then I expect to see progression towards a romantic relationship. If you can't accommodate this then I don't believe you."
She's not getting away with wiggling out of the issue. Definitive and solid answers only and definitive and solid ACTIONS to follow. I'm deadly serious here...I'm not settling for anything less from her. And if she does say she wants to take it slow, than she'd better be prepared to seriously kiss me THAT night when I leave or it's a deal breaker. She's going to prove it to me. I intend to be pulling out of her driveway having romantically kissed her or having said good bye.
In other words if there's no romance then we're not working towards R in my head and that's just a friendship...and she will be made to understand that.

I get that IH, but I am in complete agreement with LH, she doesn't know what she wants and you are never going to get a black and white answer out of her, only fuzzy shades of grey. I'm still of the opinion that you don't even give her that opportunity to drag it out even longer, you just go dark NOW. I mean I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't tell you "yes I am interested in a possible recon" and then follows it up with more pecks on the cheek, friendly hugs and such. And then every time you push for more you get "I'm just not ready for that yet, I need more time."

What's also weird to me is if she is telling the truth and hasn't had $ex in along time and is basically in her prime, why wouldn't she want to have a roll in the hay with you just based on familiarity and size lol? If it's ok to hangout and do stuff I would think it would be ok for casual $ex.

The only thing that makes sense is she doesn't want to give you the wrong impression. In essence, she already knows where she stands on recon.

The one thing that I have come to realize if my W ever wanted to recon is that I will not tolerate indecisiveness and her taking direct action. I second LH and AS in what they have said. You're going to get a lukewarm response from her. The fuzziness and the shades of grey are way beyond what you've said you want, and I am with you on that.

Until she knows what she wants and comes at you direct, this is all a huge waste of your time. You have already told her straight up what you want, and she has not. She needs to work out whatever her hesitation is and that can't be on your time and dime.

After that message, she basically went dark on you. It's your turn now. Just do it and don't look back unless she comes at you straight.

You know I guess that's an angle I never really considered here. Maybe WAW isn't even sure what she wants with us...I seem to have it in my head that she has it all sorted already and it's just a matter of her leveling with me. However maybe you guys are right...maybe she has no idea what she wants. In that respect she probably doesn't have a definitive answer to give me even if I do corner her for a definitive answer. If that's the case then yes, I agree she needs to figure that out on her own time without me aroind at all.
The trouble with me going dark right now is that we have these plans to spend Halloween together so I'm not sure how to handle that now. Should I just blow her off and not reply to her when she texts about it and just go ahead and make other plans now for that night? Too bad the plan wasn't just the movie. I just wonder if she'll even know why I suddenly stopped talking to her... there really was no prelude to it as I wanted there to be...mainly me telling her unless she decides to R, we need to cut ties. Just doing now seems a bit untimely. I never came right out and told her that I don't want to see her anymore unless she decides to R.

Keep the Halloween plans and make a decisive move. Her response will tell you all you need to know. Commit now to living with how it goes, regardless of how it goes.

Expectation management IH, a piece of cake...

Hey IH did you ever have that conversation? And what happened on Halloween? Hopefully you'll catch us up. Something must be going on with you and your ex?

Hi Guys,
Sorry I haven't been back... life's been busy. Nope haven't heard a peep from WAW since she vanished from that text the day after the movie. To hell with her...I'm focusing on a lady I met online a couple years back. We both got with someone else for a couple years, Mary for me, and now she's single again and has been talking to me again and we're making plans to hang out...and this lady is drop dead gorgeous...at least in the photos she's shared, so I definitely want to meet her in person and check out if the goods are as advertised. She seems into me so we'll see what happens.
If WAW contacts me I'll let you all know. I plan to just outright tell her that I want to get back together with her and friendship is not an option anymore. I'll tell her to leave me alone unless she wants to talk serious R. Or maybe I won't hear from her at all again. Who knows and really, at this point who cares?! My Give-A-Shi# Meter is officially on zero with her LOL!

What happened to your koans for Halloween? Did she not even contact you about that? As some of gas had stated, I don't thunk she knows what she wants. She's not layung games with you - she just doesn't know. Until she does you are probably best off where you are. Hope you'll still keep,us updated regardless of what happens and with whom!

IH,

I wouldn't give her the same spiel about only wanting a relationship again. She no doubt knows that by now. It blows my mind but 4 years later you are still plan b. She lied to you about not dating anymore and apparently hasn't given up hope that there is something better out there.

I would just respond to her texts with short replies and rebuff all her requests to get together with "sorry I have plans". Make it so she asks you what is wrong. Then tell her I clearly told you I am not interested in being friends and then wait for her response to that statement.

I agree with LH IH. No need to push, no need to pull. Her loss. You are not waiting for her.

No Don, not a word from her about Halloween...nothing since that day after the movie. I certainly wasn't going to text her so I just left it at that and did something else.

Yup, I agree...when and if she ever contacts me again she's getting three-word replies designed to get her to ask me what's wrong. Then at that time I'll tell her I'm not interested in being friends and to go about her merry way and leave me alone. She had her chance and then some. I really don't expect to hear from her for quite some time now anyway...I'm actually hoping I don't truth be told...I was so bored stiff with her anyway so it's for the best.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Then at that time I'll tell her I'm not interested in being friends and to go about her merry way and leave me alone.

That sounds a little weak and pouty.

I would just say I made it clear to you that I am not interested in being friends.

Good idea. Will do.

Good advice LH.

IH, sorry to hear about this. But we all know we're on the roller coaster.

Still rooting for you.

Originally Posted by LH19

It blows my mind but 4 years later you are still plan b.

ItHurts,

I don't have any qualms about anything you've said or done. You're doing just fine in my book.

LH has a point and I'm sure you agree. The weird part of all of this is that you were the one offering a potential relationship again before she showed real interest. Oh, she toyed with interest, but it was inconsistent and not backed with any actions or follow through. Again, no issues, but now you know.

My point is not only wouldn't I have the same 'not just friends' speech, I would personally take the relationship off the table completely. I would say something like "You walked out on me once before. I thought maybe you'd learned from that experience but what you've shown me is that you still are unable to commit. You know I'm not interested in maintaining a friendship, but I'm equally disinterested in investing time and energy into a relationship with a commitment-phobe." Not interested.

Love or no love she isn't capable of being the partner you are looking for. Maybe she'll change some day but I absolutely celebrate your decision not to short change yourself by holding on and hoping that day comes anytime soon, because it probably won't. No problem with you kicking her to the curb. Good riddance. It stinks she even got a little rise out of you but you dodged a bullet that you didn't get sucked in much more than this.

Do you want a woman's opinion? :-)

I agree and disagree with some of the advice you're getting. That is because I've been following all of your threads and I keep getting the sense that she just doesn't know yet. Still, and yes, it's getting tiresome for you, no doubt! I think anyone would run out of patience by now. However, I don't think she is playing games or stringing you along intentionally. Why would she do that? She just isn't sure and there's too much at stake here if she feels there is one shot and she blows it and things don't work out. So she gets scared and pulls back. I do agree with taking a hard line approach tho. How about doing that more with actions than with words? So sure, take the friendship off the table for now and date the other hot lady. Don't hang out with her and only minimally reply to her texts, calls, or when she shows up. I just don't see a reason to give ultimatums or explain yourself anymore. That won't have any benefit now and she most likely knows it already.

Just my 2 cents,

Blu

Hi IH,

I have been reading your sit and can relate to some of the points you make as well as your feelings. I also agree on some of the points from other posts here.

However ...

If we look at the global picture and step back for a minute I can see why your W is hesitant with regards to you.

I get the feeling you have not really worked on yourself and you are not ready for another relationship with someone else unless all you want is a "ggod time". Detaching and moving on are easily confused and often done while still looking at the rear view mirror.

A relationship unfortunately turns us into emotional junkies. You need to detox before entering a new relationship, get rid of your faults (no one is perfect) and erase your old relationship from your mind. Something you should have done at the very beginning as once you end up here, the goal is not to repair but replace your old R with a new one. Life as you knew it has gone. Hello new start.

Some of your comments seem laden with anger and based on revenge. The words "if she does xxxx i'll do yyy" imho do not reflect someone who has truly accepted their situation and searched for their 2.0 version, detached, moved on, got a life, etc.

Your W may be taking so long to decide for many reasons but you do not seem to be a priority in her life at the moment. I do not understand women as much as I would like but I learnt a lot from Sandi and one thing always stuck. When you are a woman's priority and she wants you , you'll know.

4 years in my opinion is too long for anything unless the scars are deep and time is in fact healing. Even so, no matter how long the journey if you take a look back the changes show. Sometimes you need to adjust your focus and expectations to a realistic zoom level to see the real changes and build on that. If the scenery is the same you are going in circles and those 4 years maybe be doing more damage than walking away.

Messages that rang out true during my problems were respect for a man as the building block and feeling the loss. I do not see she has that kind of respect for you (as she would have for THE partner) and I also dont see her missing anything.

When I first read that problems take years to heal I could not believe it. Unfortunately it is true and years of doing the wrong thing while trying to fix do not count, may extend the time or even wear down what is left until you give up.

I hope this helps and you take something from it.

Peace

Max

Well others have said what I was going to so I will pluck out the points I was going to hit:

Originally Posted by Zues126

My point is not only wouldn't I have the same 'not just friends' speech, I would personally take the relationship off the table completely.

YES

Originally Posted by BluWave

However, I don't think she is playing games or stringing you along intentionally. Why would she do that? She just isn't sure and there's too much at stake here if she feels there is one shot and she blows it and things don't work out. So she gets scared and pulls back. I do agree with taking a hard line approach tho. How about doing that more with actions than with words? So sure, take the friendship off the table for now and date the other hot lady. Don't hang out with her and only minimally reply to her texts, calls, or when she shows up. I just don't see a reason to give ultimatums or explain yourself anymore. That won't have any benefit now and she most likely knows it already.

YES!!!!!

Originally Posted by Maximus

Some of your comments seem laden with anger and based on revenge. The words "if she does xxxx i'll do yyy" imho do not reflect someone who has truly accepted their situation and searched for their 2.0 version, detached, moved on, got a life, etc.

This too. I think the "Yup, I agree...when and if she ever contacts me again she's getting three-word replies designed to get her to ask me what's wrong" comment in particular seems to show there's some anger there. And that's a very passive-aggressive approach to take anyway. She knows where you stand and she's not on board so if she reaches out just be polite and to the point- "I am looking for a serious relationship and you are not, so I feel it would be best if we ended our contact with each other."

Like Blu said, let your actions reflect your attitude, no more talking. There is really nothing you can say that you haven't already said and that she doesn't already know. I think the bottom line is she doesn't know what she wants and you are done waiting. So don't wait. Put her in the rearview mirror. If she does anymore of this half-assed pursuit then don't respond to it. She knows what it will take to get you back again, and if she's ever on board then she will make sure you know it.

Any updates IH

Hi Oneless,
Nope never heard from her again since that strange last text a month ago.
That ship has sailed methinks. If she wanted to be with me she would be.
She wanted just a friendship obviously and that didn't work for me.
So I think that's the end of the WAW story here. I don't expect to ever R with her nor hear from her again.
Still, I'm glad my WAW story from it's start back in April 2014 to its finish a month ago is documented here for future members. Thank you all for your advice and insight here. I wish my best to you all and I'll never, ever forget you guys!

IH,

It was definitely a bizarre 6 months for you. Apparently she still thinks there is something better out there.

You still never know, my friends parents reconned after 35 years. Keep moving forward.

Enjoy the winds ItHurts.

My best wishes. Please update when you have the chance (yep, I wrote "when" ;), following LH�s last sentence).

See you around man!

Thanks guys.

Well a strange update of sorts that kind of puts me in a quandary.
I woke up this morning and noticed a missed call from WAW. No voicemail was left so I assumed it couldn't be that important. Then later on tonight a mutual friend told me that WAW's family's pet bird died. The bird was very old...I believe as old as 30. They had this bird even years before WAW and I even met in 1996. So obviously I'm assuming now her call this morning was about the bird's death. My first instinct was to send WAW a brief text telling her I heard of the death and I send my condolences. I feel like that's the right thing to do here.
I won't mention the call or even send more than a sentence. Another part of me says to do nothing.
That just seems mean. Thoughts?

Quote

I feel like that's the right thing to do here.

I'm not the kid of guy that send condolences when a bird dies and certainly not to a person that just dissaapeared from my life without any explanation or even goodbyes. But we are all different, so if you truly feel it is the right thing to do, then you should do it.

Well The fact that you are asking means that there are strings attached.

Certainly condolences are the right thing to do if there are no expectations. Just don't respond to anything that doesn't revolve around the bird. If she asks how you're doing just say "great! Sorry I gotta run".

Agree with LH. Pets are like family. So it�s a nice gesture. No expectations of course.

I wouldn't send it. It isn't her parent or sibling. It was a bird. Yes we get attached to pets, but I guarantee they aren't going to hold a funeral and pay thousands of dollars to "say goodbye" the way you would with a person.

I vote to not reach out unless she does.

I vote not to reach out either.

IH, how are things going with you otherwise?

Blu

I vote not to reach out as well.

Yeah I've slept on it and decided to do nothing. It's not like she even left a message...it was really just a missed call.
What made it a bit hard yesterday was that I do see her Mom every couple weeks to help her with her computer. I think that was part of my dilemma yesterday but I still think doing nothing is best. If she contacts me I'll simply answer with sending my condolences and end the convo. I really have nothing to say to her anyway that hasn't been said already in recent months.

Hi Blu, things are going well. Enjoying my new wheels immensely. Also been working a lot. I'm not a huge fan of the holiday season (bah humbug LOL) so I'm looking forward to December 26 LOL! But things are going well thank you!

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Hi Blu, things are going well. Enjoying my new wheels immensely. Also been working a lot. I'm not a huge fan of the holiday season (bah humbug LOL) so I'm looking forward to December 26 LOL! But things are going well thank you!

Looking forward to Dec. 26th? You must be Canadian!

Ithurts,

You said "their" bird. Was is the mom's bird? If you still have relations with her, why not send her a text to ease your mind?

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Yeah I've slept on it and decided to do nothing.

That was going to be my vote as well. It would be different if she left you a message or sent you a text saying the bird had died, if that was the case I would have suggested a brief response back with condolences. But since she didn't then I would not say anything. Why? Because if you do, then she's going to wonder how you knew and may suspect that you are snooping on her.

Quote

It's not like she even left a message...it was really just a missed call.

Exactly.

OH CRAP! I just checked my voicemail just for the heck of it and she DID leavw a message! I don't know why I didn't get a voicemail message yesterday! She was balling her eyes out! She apologized for not being in touch and was asking if the vet we used was still in business. I feel terrible now. I didn't check my voicemail because I didn't think I had any! But WAW was on there crying her eyes out? Dammit, now I feel like an ass.

What I mean is my phone didn't notify me I had voicemail...I had 3 from yesterday and one was WAW.

You are not an as$, that can happen to anyone. My phone doesn't consistently alert me of messages.

Okay so we have two different things happening here. #1. The bird died, that is sad for her, and you missed the message. I think a simple call or text is fine. "I am sorry I missed your message and I am more sorry to hear about the bird. Take good care." Close the communication.

Why? Because #2. She is treating you like a BF or a H!!! And you are none of those. That is what a woman often does when she is upset about something: she calls her man in tears. Not all women, I actually turn to my women freinds more often than my H, but you get my point.

So more importantly, how does that make you feel? She still sees you as the man she turns too when in distress .... (this is not about the vet, because anyone can find a good vet)

Blu

Well I just left her a brief voicemail apologizing for missing her message and offered my condolences and gave her the vet advice. I left it at that. However now I'm sure she's going to call me back. I also sent a text of condolences to her Mom. You see her parents are away on vacation and the person taking care of the bird while they were away is the one who found the bird dead. She then called WAW who wasn't sure what to do with the body/situation. This is what WAW said in her voicemail and she was crying heavily.
How does it make me feel? Well I guess it makes me feel good insofar as I'm the one she reached out to. Other than that though I don't know if I have any specific feelings about it. I also don't want to be used as a crutch in her times of neediness only... it's still the whole deal or nothing to me. Sure, this is incredibly sad as they loved that bird, but that doesn't change the dynamic between her and I which is obviously a mess. So I'm not thinking too deeply on it I guess.
I just wish I had enough sense to check my voicemail yesterday though. Why I didn't I have no idea. I'm so accustomed to my phone letting me know when a voicemail was left.

NGS rearing its head.

Let's see:

She fires you as her H.
Separates.
Calls you when her bird dies as if you were still her H.

And you feel bad?

Leaving you is something to be remorseful for.

Not getting her VM right away IS not (in light of the above).

Well yes, I get that but I'm still a decent human being. I feel bad for WAW just as I would anyone who lost a long time family pet. I mean yeah, she left me, but she didn't murder someone, she's not an evil person...and she did have valid reasons for leaving me.
So yes, when WAW, or anyone for that matter, calls me in tears over something and I miss the call for 24 hours, I'm going to feel bad. So it's not because it was WAW per se, I'd feel bad no matter who it was that called in distress.

Now yes, this does once again raise the question why does she keep coming back? Why me? Even if she wanted to know if our vet was still in business, she could have simply looked him up on Google and called him. So yes, that is mysterious to me after two months of no contact. I still think deep down she needs and wants me. I don't think she's as at peace with things with us and I think she has an attachment to me that she can't sever.
None of this means anything of course because my course of action is the same now as it was two days ago. I'm done with the friend crap. My guilt is no more than it would be if anyone called me in tears and I wasn't there to answer. It's not that I feel bad because I feel like I owe her a damned thing...I would sympathize with anyone who was going through that. I'm a decent human being, not a pushover.

IH, I think it's a GOOD thing that you didn't reply to her right away. It was a genuine mistake, but also it shows her that you're not sitting on your phone waiting for her to call/ text and you're not immediately available when she needs a stand-in husband.

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Well I just left her a brief voicemail apologizing for missing her message and offered my condolences and gave her the vet advice. I left it at that.

Perfect! Now quit beating yourself up, you handled it great!

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However now I'm sure she's going to call me back.

First, don't fret over whether she's going to call or not. Second, if she calls then deal with it then. Remember like Steve said, she fired you. If you worked as a ditch-digger for me and then I fired you but then suddenly called and said "OMG I have an emergency! I need you to dig a ditch right now! LIKE RIGHT NOW! But I'm not going to give you a job or pay you for it." Would you do that? THIS IS THE SAME THING.

You did the right thing. No big deal and move on. Nothing changes. You're not interested in being friends. Anything short of that " sorry gotta run".

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

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Well I just left her a brief voicemail apologizing for missing her message and offered my condolences and gave her the vet advice. I left it at that.

Perfect! Now quit beating yourself up, you handled it great!

This is what I was getting at. The "I feel like a butt" (sorry I have a need to clean up language! LOL). You shouldn't. Even if you didn't find the VM for 6 years, you shouldn't feel that way. YOU OWE HER NOTHING. NADA. ZIP. ZERO.

I actually would give you more of a break if it WERE ANYONE ELSE. But because it is her, and she's put you through what she's put you through, out of everyone else in the world, you shouldn't feel bad at all.

But then I tend to be more of a "you hurt me, I cut you out of my life" person. If my WW had actually left me, or if she does in the future, it will be all business related to our D from that point forward.

Always be DBing..............

Okay so she texted back and thanked me and told me how it all went down. Then about 15 minutes later she called and left a VM but I'm at work and haven't been able to listen nor respond to either.

Okay basically the VM was the same as the text...thanking me for getting back to her, rehashing what she ended up doing and how our vet is putting the bird on ice until her parents come back. She wished me well, told me to be safe if I'm traveling in the snow... blah blah blah. So I'll probably just reply to her text with what LH suggested and end it at that.

Pssshhh don't respond at all. You've already told her what you want, she knows it. It's on her to come around and I don't see the point in responding.

Treat her like an ex-gf and see how long she can go without talking to you or vice versa. Before you know it you'll be moved right on.

Haha well I think we've all seen "how long she can go without talking to me" many, many times the last year ovrrnbw. She always says finds some way or some reason to contact me no matter how many "outs" I have given her. I never contact her, or initiate anything...it's always, always her. In this case yet again I left her alone after her disappearing act and sure enough...she comes around again for really no legit reason. There was absolutely no reason to contact me over this. But she keeps coming...why is that?

In any event I did respond to her text she sent earlier with just "No prob take care" and that was it. Not bothering to call her back as the VM was essentially the same words as the text she sent 15 minutes before and I suspect was just an excuse to try and talk to me on the phone.

IH I think at this point she wants you in her life. She just doesn't want you to be part of her life. See the difference? I have a long time ex-GF that still occasionally will contact me (W knows this). She in no way wants anything more from me or of me, she just wants to keep the connection alive. I think your X is in the same place with you at this point. I could be wrong. Have been before (a lot), but it has that same vibe to it that I have with my exGF.

Could be Steve but the good thing here is that it doesn't matter in terms of my own life. I could try and mind read her all day long. I'm at a point where until she comes at me aggressively with the specific intention of us trying again...I'm just not interested in dealing with her. She can just go do her thing and I'll do mine. I'm at peace because I said what I needed to say to her two months ago, she knows where I stand, and that's that. I think she was expecting me to chat her up yesterday as she kept thanking me for getting in touch and apologizing for not getting in touch with me. I just ignored all that and simply replied "No prob take care." I'm not playing her game because I was bored stiff playing it before and I'd still be bored with her now. So she can gallop into the sunset again. I really wasn't expecting to hear from her again after she went dark a couple months back so maybe this time she got my message loud and clear and will stay away. We shall see my friend.

Hi IH, glad you're doing well.

Not saying this is the right approach, but one thing I thought of was "how would you handle this if it was an ex gf that you really couldn't stand and didn't want anything to do with?"

Granted if she called and was crying about the bird you might call her and say "sorry to hear", but it would be with a 'I can't believe she's going to use a dead animal to try to rope me back in' tone in the back of my mind. Then you'd try to make sure any time she pinged you that you stayed totally dark so she'd get the message. Even to the point of being a bit rude. It's not rude of you, it's rude of her to not take a bloody hint!

I think you're doing mostly the same thing, but next time she reaches out you might have to be a little more curt, like not responding at all. I agree this might not have been the right time or situation to stonewall her, but thinking of her as a crazy stalker ex you want out of your life is probably a good compass to use.

Thoughts?

Delete her phone number or get a new one yourself? What's the point of all this stuff from her? She might hate that she doesn't have you on call anymore, but why should she? You want more, she doesn't know. This may be a weird suggestion or out of character, but I have a buddy who lives his life likes this. He's got enough women in his life that he doesn't play, he doesn't know who is calling or texting after he deletes the number, and the women hate that he does this but it makes them chase harder for him.

Well I'd have to give it some thought to take it so far as to just outright ignore her. That, to me would make me feel like I'm pouting over her. A simple 3 or 4-word reply from now on will suffice. This way I don't look like I'm "mad" and "ignoring" her... instead a blurb reply would show class yet send the message that I'm not your buddy ol' pal...I'm an acquaintance with whom you happened to spend a large chunk of your life with.
I equate it to a wrong number caller. If someone calls your house and it's a wrong number...and you just slam the phone down, that caller is going to see that you are mad and they got an emotional rise out of you. Instead you say "sorry, wrong number" and hang up. You don't want to chitchat and and break bread with the caller, your just showing them human respect. The latter is the way that appeals to me more...it just seems the stronger approach. "Ignoring" her, which is essentially what I'd be doing by replying, seems juvenile...like in "mad" at her. I'd prefer to not give her that pleasure. Instead I want to show her I am fully capable of communicating with her but at the same time project my lack of desire to engage her. That better relays how I really feel...I'm not emotionally vested where I feel like I need to ignore her but I also will not enage her. Eventually she'll either go away or decide she doesn't like just four-word answers and she needs more from me...except this time she knows the prices on my menu...

You want me to take you to dinner? Then your clothes better be off within 10 minutes of getting back to your place.

You want me to come help you dispose of a dead bird? Then I'd better get dinner made for me and a few really nice kisses.

You want me to go see a movie with you? Refer to the first requirement above.

That's it. I don't want to DB her again in that respect by going cold. I want to go the way that best reflects how I really feel regarding her...and that is I could care less if another year goes by before I hear from her again. I merely want her...I most definitely don't need her however. I don't care enough. At this point, in my eyes, and this may be a bit pig-headed to say...but she's an idiot for letting me go a second time. She's not getting the satisfaction of looking at her phone three days after she sent me a text and still hadn't gotten a reply from me and saying to herself...yeah he's so hung up on me that he can't bear to talk to me. SCREW THAT! I could talk to her every damned day and it doesn't ohase me. She'd get one common courtesy reply and that...is...it. I'm in control here and she's not going to have one reason to think otherwise. She could go get married tomorrow and I honestly would be fine with it. The reason for this confidence in myself? Because I will always knew the day WILL come where she will finally realize she belonged with me. I know it. So I don't care. I can reply to her and simultaneously make it clear I'm replying our of sheer courtesy and nothing more.
Just like the advice that you should never beg a woman to stay with you or allow her to know the power she has over you. Except in my case she doesn't have any power over me or any bearing on my life how...and I'll be damned if I'm going to allow her to think that. I guess WAW isn't the primary focus of anything in my life...so I'm indifferent to how long she stays away and what she does with her lovelife. So I'm thinking more REAL replies from me that reflect my reality as it relates to her, however limited that is... replies sort of like this...

Examples:

WAW: "Hey how've you been? Wanted to ask you how to install an air stone in my Betta tank. You were always good with that fishtank stuff. I think the fish will like the bubbles.
ME: I'm great, easier to Google it.

WAW: "Hey the fish you bought me died! Do I flush it?"
ME: Condolences, that or bury it.

WAW: "Watcha up to this weekend?"
ME: Work and plans

Of course that would be the only reply from me. Even if she texts back she will then get nothing. That way she can't say "oh he's ignoring me" yet I will have terminated the conversation. And this is all real because I just don't want to deal with her at any length unless she wants R. That's it...that's the extent of my interest in her...whether she likes it or not
If she wants me...she will have me on my terms, not hers.

So that's where I'm at. She's now joined her parents on vacation for their last week of vacation as she was planning so I'm sure I won't hear from this week anyway.
She may have already gotten the message when I replied to her lengthy text with "No prob take care."
She never replied back. That's the style of communication with her that I want. Until she comes at me aggressively and direct stating specifically that she wants to talk about reconciliation...I'm not interested in engaging her.

SOmetimes no response at all! If she texts later, hey you never responded then respond with "Oh sorry, been busy."

It shows her where in the pecking order she ranks.

It seems we are still falling into the detaching and expectation field, right IH? It looks like she did a galaxy size temp check?...just asking...

I wish I could talk some sense into this lady. I truly believe you are the man for her, on some level her heart knows this, but she can't seem to accept this and get it into the forefront of her brain. She is only hurting herself. Perhaps she hasn't done some of the deeper soul searching that we here try to do and convince one another to do. If that is the case, then you know the R has less chance of survival anyhow. That is why we keep telling newbies to let them go and they need to do the hard work first, before we consider R with them.

If we were friends, I would sit her down and give her some tough 2*4 Blu love! I wish I could. Sigh. It has taken me so many years to understand all this, and yes I am still learning, but I do know that sometimes things are right under our noses and we refuse to see them. I keep telling my BFF who is dating, "you have to see what is actually in front of you and stop focusing on what you want to see."

I do hope one day she will get it and come around. In the mean time, keep up the good work, IH, youve got this!

Blu

Thanks Blu! You seem to consistently have the exact understanding of my point of view.
I too have no doubt she belongs with me...or I should say I have no doubt that SHE knows this. There is some kind of struggle going on with her regarding me. This isn't just a simple matter of her bansishing me to the friend zone and her being content with that. I sensed more, the times I was with her, that that was something she wanted for now. I didn't and still don't believe for a minute that she has ruled out R. I think it's a private struggle with her and that's why she's acting as she is. But yes, call it arrogance or whatever but I know she will come to her senses one day. Will it be too late for her by then? Who knows? I can't predict my future. What I can do is just keep doing my own thing and stay happy. If she comes around in time, great we'll chat about R possibilities...but if I become involved with someone else who may well come along and knock my socks off...then so be it. As long as I'm single I'll entertain her insofar as not outright ignoring her; but contact will be VERY limited as I previously described and there most certainly will not be another planned in person meeting. Yes she may come to my work and there's nothing I can do about that but if she does my workday will immediately become twice as busy LOL. Cordial, brief correspondence and that is it.
The ONLY thing that will change that is if she specifically comes out and says she wants to talk about R. Anything short of that the she's at the bottom of my totem pole...if she's even on it at all.

But yes, I do agree she knows I'm the one for her...I think she never really accomplished what she wanted in Florida...she never lived on her own off her own steam and that seems to be the schism she has regarding R...that she would have to give all that up. She once said when we were talking of R that if she got back with me she knows she'd be "all in 100%" and she wasn't sure she was ready for that.
That's just how I see it...she is definitely thinking about me a lot I am certain. But all that matters to me is that I'm happy either way right now...and I am. Mind reading her is an exercise in futility. I already have an opinion on this and I'm at peace with it all. What she does now she does. Godspeed to her.

I agree with you IH, I think she is struggling. However, I don't agree that she hasn't tucked you into the friendzone. As I said this reminds me a lot of the dynamic between "Not That Into Me" and me. I think she struggled internally with me too. There were times she wanted to want more, but then the fear of losing my friendship, or the lure of another guy, or my hesitation to act due to not wanting to ruin things, or any other number of factors came into play. Years later she admitted she should have been with me and forgotten anyone and anything else. But she didn't.

Just like your EX, I think she always knew I was a great catch, and she always knew that longterm stability and security was assured with me, but there was some X factor that was missing.

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But yes, I do agree she knows I'm the one for her...I think she never really accomplished what she wanted in Florida...she never lived on her own off her own steam and that seems to be the schism she has regarding R...that she would have to give all that up.

If any of this is true then I would run for the hills away from her. We aren't talking about a 20 something that is still finding her way. This is a grown butt, 44 year-old woman. For crying out loud, if she doesn't know what she wants yet then SHE NEVER WILL. And if that is true then getting back together with her would be just setting yourself up for BD #2.

Also, if this is part of it: "I think she never really accomplished what she wanted in Florida." then I again would not even entertain it. Why? Because Florida was Plan A......which means all you can ever be is Plan B.

IH, i was pulling for the two of you more than anyone because I so wanted to have a recent example of a WAW that went through with D and came back after 4 years to a fairy-tale, happily ever after ending with LBH. But based on all of the recent interactions, discussions, and activity (and take this with a grain of salt because you are closer to it than I am!), I think she still is struggling with many of the same issues that made her a WAW to begin with. IOW: While you have grown immensely over the last 5 years....she has not.

You could be right Steve. However the beauty of it all is I just don't care. She can do what she wants. She can figure out whatever she wants to figure out...and she can take three weeks or three years. I just don't really care as it has no bearing on my life at all. It's just right now a relationship, with any woman not just WAW, is not really a priority in my life. So if I'm right in my assumptions or if you are...it just doesn't matter to me my friend. As I said she can do whatever she wants.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

It's just right now a relationship, with any woman not just WAW, is not really a priority in my life.

Can I ask why? Because i hope you are being honest with yourself on this. There are plenty of great, caring, and loving women out there. I hope you aren't just saying this because deep-down you are waiting for her.

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by ItHurts

It's just right now a relationship, with any woman not just WAW, is not really a priority in my life.

Can I ask why? Because i hope you are being honest with yourself on this. There are plenty of great, caring, and loving women out there. I hope you aren't just saying this because deep-down you are waiting for her.

I was going to ask the same question IH. This new chapter of your sitch is more than half year long...

Well guys the main reason is that for whatever reason it's kind of nice just worrying about me and not having to worry about someone else. Remember, I was with Mary, living with her in fact, for two 1/2 years. There were many times during that time that I wished I was single again. I work so much right now as there's a few financial goals I am working to attain and that seems to be my primary focus right now. That's not to say that some gorgeous gal couldn't knock me off my feet and change my mind; but I'm not actively searching. As far as waiting for WAW goes...I wouldn't say that exactly. Yes, as I've alluded to above; I do truly believe she will indeed one day ask about R...but I wouldn't say I'm waiting for it necessarily. Using an analogy, it's sort of like this...I like sunsets and I know they will come...but I don't spend my whole day pondering and waiting for sundown. When I get a sunset, great, I enjoy it, but when it's cloudy out it's kind of a non factor. That's really the best way to describe it. I know WAW will eventually pursue R with me...but I don't sit around waiting for it. In other words, yes, I also believe in the very real possibility that some other lady could come along and sweep me off my feet. I let my life play out as it will with no expectations of anything really.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Well guys the main reason is that for whatever reason it's kind of nice just worrying about me and not having to worry about someone else. Remember, I was with Mary, living with her in fact, for two 1/2 years. There were many times during that time that I wished I was single again. I work so much right now as there's a few financial goals I am working to attain and that seems to be my primary focus right now. That's not to say that some gorgeous gal couldn't knock me off my feet and change my mind; but I'm not actively searching. As far as waiting for WAW goes...I wouldn't say that exactly. Yes, as I've alluded to above; I do truly believe she will indeed one day ask about R...but I wouldn't say I'm waiting for it necessarily. Using an analogy, it's sort of like this...I like sunsets and I know they will come...but I don't spend my whole day pondering and waiting for sundown. When I get a sunset, great, I enjoy it, but when it's cloudy out it's kind of a non factor. That's really the best way to describe it. I know WAW will eventually pursue R with me...but I don't sit around waiting for it. In other words, yes, I also believe in the very real possibility that some other lady could come along and sweep me off my feet. I let my life play out as it will with no expectations of anything really.

Good analogy. I guess my point would be that, while they require a little more planning, sunrises have a lot to offer too!

Haha well I hate the morning Steve, I'm a night guy. I love the night. So sunrises to me are totally different LOL!
But yes, that analogy is the closest to how I feel. Basically if it's meant to be it'll be. If not it won't. There's nothing I can do to persuade the outcome. My opinion on WAW is based on a sense I get from her whenever I was with her. I've said it repeatedly, there is something going on with her in her head regarding me. I can't describe it, but it's a sense I get. There is a part of her that wants to be with me again, I just know it. But she's her own person and has to make her own decisions. I'm like the train at the train station. The train doesn't leave the station until all the seats are sold. If WAW gets her ticket in time, she'll likely get a seat, if not she's not getting aboard. There's no telling when all the seats will be sold. My feeling is I'm thinking about starting the engine and driving the train, not worrying about who manages to get a ticket. Does that make sense?

Ok IH. Admittedly I was projecting. Due to my on-again, off-again EXGF I passed up on a lot of great gals. One in particular I still kick myself for not pursuing more of a relationship with. Maybe I am romanticizing but I think my marriage to her would have been much more blissful. Who knows.

Point is that don't miss a great ride waiting for the one you think you want.

I don't know. She doesn't seemed to be very concerned she's gonna miss the train.

A friend of mine who is a married woman just told me she doesn't want to be married to her H anymore but she would love to be friends with him. She is just not interested in him romantically.

Originally Posted by LH19

I don't know. She doesn't seemed to be very concerned she's gonna miss the train.

A friend of mine who is a married woman just told me she doesn't want to be married to her H anymore but she would love to be friends with him. She is just not interested in him romantically.

I think that's my ex exactly. She invites me to do stuff, asks me to come over and work on stuff, sends me a friendly text now and then, but I really think that's all she wants. And that's actually fine with me, I love to do stuff with my GF but it's also nice to fall back and have family time with my kids and ex now and then. Not that it happens a lot, with the girls grown and moved out we're only talking maybe half a dozen times a year.

AS,

Sounds to me like you�re cake eating lol!

Well sure I may be way off on what my gut is telling me...but it's just how I feel about it. I think at some point she's going to want to talk about R. But again, that's fine and dandy if she sees the light one day...but my job is only to drive the train here when it's time. I'm not at all concerned with who's filling the seats to maxium capacity.
If WAW misses the posh, luxurious, and first class train that is me...she can catch the next ordinary, commercial Amtrak.

Any updates IH

ItHurts - I read through all 13 threads of your "My Tragic WAW Story" today. Fascinating. Unbelievable 4 year journey and almost R. It's been a year and a half since your last post now. I'd love to know where things stand in your life if you're out there.