Thank you so much sandi. I await your insight to this. To answer your question: W brought up the hall-pass weekends two months before BD (kiss). She started dating OM one month after BD whist we were still in the trial separation phase. And when she brought up hall-passes she made it seem like it would benefit both of us, to which I have disagreed with constantly.
Sorry, I don't know why I am getting so confused about it. So, she suddenly wants hall passes for the weekends, which means she wants to play like she's not in a MR. Then, she admits to kissing. I am reminded of something one of the board's favorite vet's use to say. He said a WW will usually admit to a level just lower than the full truth. That's how teenagers will communicate sometimes, to test the reaction of their parent. I guess it makes sense, cause WW's are like rebellious teenagers.
I had it in my head that the two of you were physically separated. Are you living under the same roof? If so, no wonder you are reeling in so much agony! It's worse than being in an open M, b/c it's without your agreement. In house separations are the worst, b/c you aren't really separated expect in the areas she dictates. It is the epitome of cake eating for the WW to be living under the same roof and calling it a separation......while dating OM, all in the face of her H.
When her R with OM began she was very secretive other than the fact she told me that she is "casually seeing him" or "you're obsessing" (Gaslighting). She moved quickly, asking me if it was ok for D4 to meet him. I had little balls back then so I nice-guyed and said "Sure, if it's casual." Wrong.
IMHO, that's another sign of WW, being so secretive, gaslighting, etc. If she was just a WAW without a hidden agenda, why be so secretive and gaslight? The only reason I could think of a WAW being secret is if she feared her H and was trying to flee from his abuse. I haven't seen a wayward,
yet, that was afraid of violence coming at the hand of her H. It doesn't fit their mindset, makeup, or the protocol, so to speak. A WAW might be concerned of possible repercussions....and she would be more logical in her thinking. Whereas, a WW is too fogged out of her mind to be logical, and too addicted to high of her affair. Let me put it this way.........a WW pretty much has her H's b@lls. The WAW usually doesn't. That's why you don't hear of abuse going hand in hand with WW's. And, please don't misunderstand what I'm saying here. I'm not advocating any type of abuse! I'm just saying that I have not read about it in wayward wife cases. What I've read is how the WW is the bully. The H
usually has some level of NGS (but that's just my observation from the past eleven years of studying it). She is the one who is really in charge. She's the dominate spouse, ruling the house and the MR. If anyone is afraid.....it's him afraid of her. He fears her anger, her rejections, her coldness, her put downs, etc.
When I snooped her phone records and confronted her, she made me feel like the bad guy and again she said that "we are separated".
After that, she still kept her phone to her self but would leave it in conspicuous places, I would assume to test me. I never was tempted. I just knew it was asking for trouble.
This fits the WW picture we see on the board time after time.
When I joined DB forum, I told myself that I was detaching, GAL, all that stuff, but still working on R. When Steve told me that more often that not, R does not happen, I refused to accept and still applied the DB techniques not only for myself, but to show her that I can improve every aspect about myself.
I think everyone who comes to the board is seeking help, or they wouldn't be here. People get upset if we don't give them hope, and they get upset if we do....and reconciliation never comes. They say we offered them false hope. I am a realist and I probably speak more bluntly than some would prefer, but I will be as honest as I can. Ultimately, it's up to you as to how long you want to hope for a reconciliation. If you can move forward with life, and still hold to some hope that one day both you and your spouse can heal from all the issues......then that's up to you. Some people just don't know how to move forward apart from their spouse. They are to co-dependent on the MR. Those are the ones that have such a difficult time even thinking of giving up hope......b/c of their own inner issues. Just like you, at 37, practically sounding like you are sexually dead. You are so afraid of not being in a satisfied sexual relationship again, that it paralyzes you. I could talk for pages how you and your future W set yourself up for failure by the way you handled your first date, and then meeting bi-monthly afterwards. Man, when you decided to take the plunge......you really went for it. But, I'm not going to get off into all of that, b/c I really see no benefit at this point. However, if you should start dating in the future...….maybe we should talk.
At the urging of my DB coach, I decided to make some small moves, most which were met with positivity. To which I felt "Hey, these are good signs!". But the folks here saw this and warned me to slow down and that it did not mean anything, good or bad.
Here's the thing......the more people giving you advice, the more chance of receiving different advice. I don't know how often you've spoken with the DB coach, or if you revealed something there that you haven't here. Some of us on the board don't always see eye to eye about everything. Plus, you are seeing a therapist, your spiritual advisor, and did I see where you are also in MC? What's the chances you are going to hear everyone say the same thing?
But I kept up my hope until D4 told me about their affection last weekend and me finding the explicit emails. I called her again and asked to not display PDA in front of D4. Her initial reply was "I thought I was doing that but I will do a better job." Last night, when I told her that I do not want D4 to see OM anymore, she was angry and told me that she needs to see what a "healthy, affectionate relationship" should look like. I just told her I disagreed and that as she grows older she will ask questions about why W made the choices she is making. She returned my remark with a look of disgust and asked "How dare you!" and again repeated the sentiment of seeing happy, healthy relationship behavior.
It's just more disrespect coming from her. Look, she feels disgusted with you, and blames her unhappiness on this bad MR. That doesn't mean you are disgusting person...….it just means those are the feelings of a WW. Waywardness is all about the lack of respect. In order to draw your W, she'll need to see you in a light of strength. She needs to respect you as man, first. Understand? A woman has to feel respect for her H as a man, before she can feel desire for him as her H. She's not going to do anything lovingly from her heart as a wife, when she doesn't respect you as a man. You are working hard to learn new skills and better yourself as a man. It's a growth process. Along the way, you'll learn that firm boundaries are needed with a WW. If she doesn't feel the sting of her disrespect and selfishness, then she's not going to suddenly change for the better (without an ulterior motive). This subject (boundaries) within itself is too much to cover in this post.
As we continued to talk, W said that I was "a better version of myself."
Wait a minute. That's DB language that is used on the board. Why would your WW being using that expression, unless you are repeating to her the things you pick up on the board? It's a pet peeve of mine, I suppose, but she's not the one showing up for class...….YOU are. Don't be one of these guys that think they are going to get somewhere with the WW by flashing some of the board's phrases around with her. If I'm wrong, I apologize, and just stick it under you hat. Do you follow what I'm saying here? Don 't be sharing DB terminology or phrases or anything in your tool box with her. Don't even tell her you are working on yourself. Don't tell her how badly you want to save the MR. Don't tell her how bad you hurt. Don't share your goals with her. Don't tell her anything, unless we specifically tell you to say it. Don't talk to her about the OM and their "relationship". If they are having sex in front of D4.....or you have reason to be concerned about her being around OM.....then get legal advice of what you can do. Otherwise, they will laugh at your powerlessness over what they do in their "relationship". Learn what you can control, and what you can't. Are you getting the picture? ((hugs))
I went further when I told her that I do not trust her when it came to D4's visitation. She asked me angrily and to make sure I am not saying it out of anger and to think about what I said and then tell her. I repeated it again. I do not trust her.
Look, what did you expect to get when you told her that? Again, I suspect you picked it up from the board warning you not to trust her about child visitation......b/c we have learned from people's experiences. That's for you ONLY, not for you to run your mouth to her. Is there anything you haven't told her that you've gotten off the board? This is like chopping off your own foot. It gets you nowhere but behind.
We proceeded to talk about D. Though she brought it up and asked me to file. I told her that I am in a high emotional state right now and will not be making any decisions at this moment. When/if that time comes, it will come from a logical view.
High emotional state sounds like a female. Women get in high emotional state b/c we are emotional creatures, sometimes called the weaker sex b/c of our capacity for high emotional state of mind. On the other hand, we women need our men to remain calm, in command, in charge, and strong enough to handle our high emotional state.
Sorry for being so tough on you. I'm really not trying to beat you up. I want to help you, and pointing these things out is how I know where to get started. When I read your first post, I thought to myself that you probably did not have many, or if any, close male buddies. It always shows whenever a man has mostly women in his life. Just as women need other women, so do men need to spend time around other men. So, I want to encourage you to try to spend more time around strong, positive, males.
I['m not through reading everything yet. So far, you've been getting good advice, and responding well. You know, a good response goes a long ways. Good application goes even farther. Remember that we are here in your corner. We talk about 2x4's but it's just a learning technique that everyone gets (if that makes you feel any better).
Anyway, I read it to mean she was maybe showing some signs of waywardness, admitted to kissing a guy and followed up with 
