Link to old thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=61659&Number=2817178#Post2817178I wanted to update everyone. I am finding that longer periods between updates are helping me greatly to not obsess. This does not mean that I am not still watching the roller coaster in front of me.
First. I want to thank everyone on this forum for EVERYTHING! It has truly been a godsend as some days this was my only outlet and the input was so unselfish in trying to help save my MR but always having me focus on saving myself.
As mentioned before, I am going to continue to DB throughout this but as the days to by I am more and more resigned that my marriage is over. I am discovering things that I never dreamed my wife was capable of and these are things that have been happening for years.
What has happened this past several days:
We are way more distant. W is out looking for places, talking to management companies and trying to get her stuff together. She has told me that she is intent on this and she will let me know when she is moving. I just validated and I did tell her (since I believe this) that I think it is a good idea. It is time for a physical separation. It is the only way that she can experience life without me and also the only way for me to really have some space to allow myself to be myself.
It is difficult to be in a home with someone who loathes your very presence.
She tries to manipulate constantly with being mean, kind, passing guilt, anything that might help what she wants to accomplish at that moment. She is actively on dating sites. I would estimate she has been on 2-3 coffee dates in the last couple of weeks. I call a coffee date when you only have an hour or so before you have to be somewhere (pick up the kids, etc.) It is during the day. And you are a little made up but not "dressed to kill" kind of late night rendezvous thing.
She came to me 2 nights ago and said "I think it is time we started sleeping separately". I did not give her time to expand too much on that and immediately told her that she is more than welcome to move to the guest room. I know this will shock all of you, but she was amazed and flabbergasted that I would ask HER to move. She even said the term "you need to man up". I brushed it off and just said "This is our marital bedroom. If you are done with our marriage, it is only fair that you are the one to move." We talked for a little while longer as the belabored her position but I did not waiver. She huffed off saying she had to go wash some sheets. I didn't say a word and went on with my evening. She came down and watched tv with me for a little while then we went up. I am truly still working on my NGS as I was unsure if I should go help her make her bed. I even walked half way down the hall 3 times. I did not do it. I did get her pillows and other stuff out for her and laid it on the end of our (now presently my) bed. She came in and angrily said "you could have at least helped me". She then saw her pillows and said "That is the exact LEAST you could have done". I didn't take the bait and let her go.
Things are progressively getting worse and I informed my A of this and trying to speed them up to get everything drawn up. I personally believe that if I can get her into a settlement conference before she moves it will be better.
MOST DISTURBING THING EVER!! She had a bunch of papers laying on the table downstairs. I didn't know they were hers or the kids. I was cleaning up and went to put them up. There was a list of properties she was looking at and the contact #'s. There was another sheet that has really opened my eyes. It was a page of things she was going to tell the management company regarding her position, plans, etc. and how she would accomplish paying her rent. I read it and also took a picture of it since I think it is such a HUGE thing. I cannot tell anyone about this except my A (which I sent a copy to this morning as it was just yesterday evening I saw this) since this is such an eye opening thing for anyone that knows her. She states in the letter that she will be working 2 jobs. Funny. I think the judge and the Disability people will be interested in this! I don't know if this is fluff to get the place, but it is in her writing and the fact that it is 2 jobs is very important. She also said she doesn't have quite a year working yet. REALLY? When do you work and how do you get paid since our family has seen none of this? She also said she has a bank account with enough money in there to cover rent for a year. WOW. Do I feel like a person who has just been used. She can work and she has been hiding money for her "escape". It seems I have been duped by the one person I entrusted my heart and soul to for a good number of years. For someone who claimed to love me and has tried to convince me she is a good person I am finding this very hard to swallow. But I am. I am just thankful that I now have a copy of the letter for the D proceedings. She also put in there that she expects child support and alimony. You will have 2 jobs. Why do you need either? I will argue and may be able to prove it should go the other way. Probably won't on the other way part, but with this I don't think with this page of notes that she can play the disabled victim with the judge too much.
It is just a matter of time. I have an appt with my A tomorrow and hoping to get everything agreed and filed by the end of the month to start the waiting period. I would rather file quicker rather than later now.
I am kind of excited to see her try to work 2 jobs during a week the kids are with her and one of them is sick (not wishing my kids to be sick, just throwing stuff out there), the other one has activities and she is having a hard health week.
I have truly dropped the rope. Unless it involves the kids I am not interested in communicating. She is ready for her "new life" to begin and to experience dating again and probably a new partner/s. There are some amazing people out there in the world. We were a great team for a long time. We had a rough few years and even through those I made sure our family was taken care of. I don't wish her any hard times but I am fairly interested to see the fantasy fog collapse and how she will react.
I will continue to DB. If she engages, I will validate. Outside of emergencies (a situation where I deem it an emergency not her) of which I would be there. And of course anything for our kids.
My D is struggling and is in counseling. Things outside of home are affecting her emotionally so much so that she is taking a break from school for a couple of weeks to do a 2 week 8 hour per day group therapy. The issues are so huge I just can't bring myself to say it here. My daughter is my main focus now. I have said that she has very harsh feeling towards me. She has seen me the last several days working diligently to get her the help that she needs. Last night, my W made the sarcastic comment "I'm gonna go up and retire to my bedroom". I said "good night". I had a decent 20-30 min conversation with my daughter and then both my kids came down and we had a snack together and just laughed and chatted. I'm fairly certain that enraged my W. I truly don't care on that. I had a GREAT time with my kids and am so thankful that my daughter and I are having some good conversations. My W constantly is telling me that my daughter still hates me and that she is just faking it. I let that roll off. We spoke again this morning for about 15 minutes. She could just as easily have said she was tired or didn't want to talk. She didn't.
There are a few more "Holy Crap" moments along the way as well.
I feel like we have moved from Jerry Springer to a true 20/20 episode. It is that real.
My head is clear. I am still working out a lot and feeling good. Concentrating on work and my kids. I am concerned about my W's health as well as her weight has dropped drastically and she is now at a weight that the bmi calculator classifies as borderline anorexic. I also have respected her wishes and am not asking about it. If she volunteers (which is the only way I know what her weight is) I listen, validate and may ask a question or two during the validation part.
I guess I could have posted this individually over several days, but I am glad I waited. I am journaling for myself as well. I don't know how much worse this can get prior to her move but I am preparing for it non the less.
Feedback, comments, 2x4's and anything else anyone would like to send me is always greatly appreciated. I can honestly say that even through my mis steps and mistakes that I can look at myself in the mirror and know that I have done everything I could to try and save my MR and keep my family together.
I'll leave the post with this. I have never required that much sleep. Even when my now W and I were dating 20 some odd years ago I would sleep 3-5 hours a night. Last night. In my bed by myself. I slept for 7 and a half hours. When I woke up and look at the time I couldn't believe it. Funny thing was that when I came down stairs (kids were still asleep and it was still dark) my W was already up. We will see how tonight goes. I am still working on myself everyday. The focus is off of her and our MR. I will DB when the opportunity arises but this is not about my kids and me.
This is all pretty good stuff. I have just one 2x4 for you but first, well done on standing your ground on the MBR! Very well handled.
On the letter, meh. WAWs and WWS in particular always fantasize about life after D. "I'll work two jobs, have majority custody of the kids, get alimony AND child support........I'll be rolling in dough!" Reality? Yeah right. I'd also take the "I have enough money socked away to pay rent for a year" thing with a grain of salt. Someone as impulsive as her is lucky to be able to squirrel away a few hundred dollars. At most I bet she has $2k. Again, in her fantasy "my life will be wonderful" fog she makes it sound like $20,000.
On top of all of that, property managers, or any creditor for that matter, doesn't take hand-written notes of promises and unconfirmed claims as "colllateral". This just shows what a fog she is really in. "Hey property manager, look how great I am and how much money I have and have access to. Now hand me the keys!" ROFL
Okay the 2x4:
I have truly dropped the rope.
Be very very very careful with grand pronouncements like this. I still see a lot of focus on her and what she is doing in this update for someone that has "truly dropped the rope". I think your statement should be more along the lines of "I am truly trying to drop the rope". Declaring victory too soon opens you up for defeat. Be confident you can drop the rope, but don't claim you have until you REALLY have.
Thanks Steve.
As far as the money goes. She stated in on the page that she has enough money in an account and can send them a screenshot of the balance. That was the big shock. I thought it way different than just "I have enough money so trust me". I just love it as she also put on the top of the letter "Lay it all out for them to know everything". Thinking ahead through negotiations, mediation or even a judge this appears to be fairly straight forward.
Dear Property Manger,
I will be working 2 jobs. I have enough money in the bank to show you I can pay and/or pay you rent in advance for a year. I also have a cosigner.
Thanks,
WAW
So we go to negotiate, mediate or court and she says "I'm disabled and here is my medical file, I can't work" , we get to say, then why are you saying you are already working "the line of I don't have quite a year of employment" and that you are going to add another job? I can see the judge asking "WAW. Why would you be trying to re-open your disability case with an attorney when you have been working and have portrayed yourself to be able to be gainfully employable?".
"And also, if you are able to work, why would you need spousal maintenance?"
Next question would be on the asset side. "WAW, you show on your financial disclosure that you have nothing other than retirement accounts and a few hundred dollars in the bank. This indicated you have an account with a substantial balance that you did not disclose to this court. Please explain."
Again, I will ask my A tomorrow on this. I think we hold this out as long as we need to and then disclose it after she has put in her "claims" against me.
I don't know how her credit is now but when I was doing everything even after the financial collapse we were in the excellent range within 9 months.
I appreciate the 2x4. I also know I will have good and bad days. That if she struggles I will be very tempted to help. When she tries to bait me in, it will be tough depending on the situation to not engage. I am working everyday on this.
Just updating in case anyone was wondering.
Things are progressing quickly towards D. We are scheduled before a mediator in about 10 days. We are trying desperately to settle without attorneys doing their thing on both sides delaying the inevitable and costing a ton of money and aggravation on both sides.
W is still determined to go. She has secured a place and it is just a matter of time. I am doing all I can to hold everything together. I am pleading with my W to just remain in the current home until our daughter is done with her 2-3 week day long therapy. I think it is better for her to not have the transition during this and also, since the times are very close, it is impossible for one parent to take care of both of the kids at drop off or at pick up for school. I guess "plead" would be the wrong word. I would just like her to see the reality of just this part and the short term sacrifice for our daughter. We are talking later this morning.
I want us to mediate, work this out, agree and file together. However if she moves during my D's therapy, I will have no choice but to file and ask for temporary full custody. NOT what I want to do. W have chose a place 30 minutes from our children's school. She will not be able to change them, but the commute is going to be quite an increase for them when she has them. Selfish planning on my W's part, but "not my problem". Just worried about the kids.
Funny. I've been sleeping better since she moved out of the bedroom into the spare room. She's complained every day about her sleep and pain and everything. I guess that it will be good that i won't have to hear it for too much longer.
Still working more and more on GAL. Honestly, just focused on my daughter's issues right now and doing my best to not let everything blow up with the W. Patience and perseverence are key. It has taken a long time, but the "rose colored glasses" through which I viewed my wife are beginning to clear. Having the things you never thought someone that close to you was capable of to just be exposed fully are both empowering and undeniably eye opening. To think that all along I was such a fool. No more.
I leave with this. My family is still in the same home. The clock is ticking and this will be over with in the next few weeks. I am ready to move on and move forward with my life and do all I can to support my kids and have a great time with them. I still love my wife. I believe that I always will. This doesn't mean she will control me, nor will I let her. I am too good a person to be treated the way I have been treated. No one deserved to be used this way.
Happy Friday everyone! Enjoy your day. Kiss your kids! If you have a significant other, hug them dearly!
I had to meet my W for a meeting at one of our kids schools.
It is just weird now. I see her differently. She is pale. Bloodshot eyes. tired. Almost frail. Even weirder (to me) she showed up wearing my jacket. She has close to 100 (or so) coats, jackets, hoodies, etc. Why mine? Just weird to me. And yes, I know it is sad that I notice that and it bothers me. Not detached enough. Definitely.
Good interaction between us at the meeting. We chatted idly and made it through easily. Parted ways and on with my day.
PLEASE PLEASE GIVE ME SOME FEEDBACK ON THIS!!
Sandi, Steve, everyone. PLEASE...
All of you know my situation. Difficult as any on this board. No better, no worse.
First. I had a good weekend. Spent a lot of time with my kids and enjoyed all of it!
W is still in the home. She was out of it most of the weekend sleeping most of the entire day both Saturday and Sunday.
She has secured a new place and is slowly moving stuff over there. We are still living in the same house due to our daughter's therapy with is 2-3 weeks long and meets or lets out at the same time our son's school does so it takes both of us to get them around. If not for that, she would be gone now. I would rather my daughter be better and have my W gone than to deal with this. Things almost really blew up to full blown Attorney's last week. My A is really good and actually calmed me down. We should have a mediator scheduled this week or next and my goal is to have a signed plan in place prior to my daughter's completion and reintegration back to school. This is going to be difficult enough for her anyway.
I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult. She can't change their school districts (I checked) and the one she chose to live within is drastically worse than the one they are in (the best in our area by far). Other concern I found out is that her place does not allow pets. We have 2 dogs that our kids absolutely love. One of which has slept with our daughter for the last 6 years. I know they will "cope". I just hate to see that much more of their world come apart.
Now you are all caught up.
First comments:
1- I am letting all of this go. She did a long time ago, it just took me forever to hear it and then a lot longer to actually see it and believe it. Don't get me wrong. This is not easy in the least.
2- I have moved from mourning the loss of my marriage (still happens) to mostly the realization that I will miss my kids so much. The little things. The laughter, the drama, dinners, breakfasts, just having them come sit beside me and watch tv for a little while. Yes they are growing up and more independent and don't need me as much. I just love them. Always will. They will get a little "bump" of excitement with their new move and I hope they enjoy the adventures they will be having that come to them.
3- W is still in her fantasy fog. I believe she has done enough financial moves to last her for at least a year (totally dependent on her spending habits which I fear will increase initially as she is getting her new place laid out). I am not being morbid or mean, but unless she is just waiting for one of her parents to pass so she can inherit something. This will all be chewed up very quickly.
now Questions:
I wish i could say I didn't love my wife. I do and am resigned that i probably always will. I guess the BIG question I have is that based on our history and what has happened. Is there a decent chance that after D that we could get back together? Asking only since I had a dream on Saturday. Vivid dream of me and my wife. I don't know the time period, but we were divorced and it was some time (a few years) down the road. We were just lying and laughing together and then it got intimate. The physical part was great, but it was the mental part. The conversation and words shared between us that both woke me up with a smile and also scared me to death.
Is this possible? or is this just my mind playing another trick and its a pipe dream?
How do you contemplate this while knowing you are going through a D, your marriage is over, and you are starting a new life?
I know we will have some connection due to the kids, but it really won't be that much considering the ease of communication we have these days to avoid actual face to face interaction.
She has systematically over time parted me out of a different part of her life. Now we are this part. I think it has been easier for her (not diminishing) since she has had the cushion of my support through most of it.
Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on? Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me? I figure there will be a huge euphoric feeling from her initially being "free" or however she would like to word it. She gets to be empowered by leaving.
Just looking for some help and input from you guys out there.
I am much better. I am astonishingly not bitter for the last week or so as well. I do hate what she is doing to our family and still also believe we are better together than apart, but again I am resigned to the reality and only what I can control.
JS
Your questions are all common questions that we LBSs go through.
First, is it possible to R? Absolutely. It always is. All but those in the worse situations always have hope of this happening. We have one guy here whose W has come sniffing around after 4 years of being D'd (ItHurts). So yes it can happen. However, you shouldn't have that expectation, and in fact you should just consider that it never will happen. That is what detachment is. Moving on, but having an underlying hope that R could happen one day. Admittedly most LBSs eventually move on and are no longer open to Ring. That is always your choice. If she ever comes back YOU will have the power to decide what happens.
"Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on? Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me? I figure there will be a huge euphoric feeling from her initially being "free" or however she would like to word it. She gets to be empowered by leaving. "
A lot attempted mindreading going on here. First, we have no idea if she is totally done with the marriage and has moved on. Likely she doesn't even know that! And yes, there is always the chance that once she completes her move she'll after a period of time freak out and wonder what in the world she has done. Again, not idea to know. She may have an euphoric feeling of being free and empowered. Or not.
The problem here is you are too focused on her! What are you going to do to move on once she is gone? How is your GAL going? What are you doing to work on yourself? Leave her alone to own and figure out her own crap. You need to be working on YOU!
"I am resigned to the reality and only what I can control."
Start here. Facing reality is good. But I see you focusing on a lot of things you cannot control. That was my last point. Stop worrying about what she is thinking and feeling. Concentrate on what you are thinking and feeling. Many LBSs think that D is going to be the worst thing possible, and then find out afterward that they are the ones that feel free and empowered! This is what working on you is about. When you detach, 180, and GAL you realize that you are ultimately in control of your happiness. Not her.
All of you know my situation.
Not me. I will give you my general advise.
She has secured a new place and is slowly moving stuff over there. We are still living in the same house due to our daughter's therapy with is 2-3 weeks long and meets or lets out at the same time our son's school does so it takes both of us to get them around.
Do you have a 50/50 parenting plan in place? If not, that is where I would focus your energy.
I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult.
Bring up your concerns with W and ask her what her plan is.
I am concerned for my children as my W has chosen to live 30 minutes away from their school. She admittedly can't drive at night, and with the time change and shorter days this is going to become increasingly difficult. She can't change their school districts (I checked) and the one she chose to live within is drastically worse than the one they are in (the best in our area by far). Other concern I found out is that her place does not allow pets. We have 2 dogs that our kids absolutely love. One of which has slept with our daughter for the last 6 years. I know they will "cope". I just hate to see that much more of their world come apart.
OK, well first let me say that this is what separation and divorce is all about. Life is changing for both of you. What I'm hearing from you is a lot of panic and fear about the future. Here's the thing, you don't know what the future holds. Things will probably be inconvenient, maybe VERY inconvenient. But that's part of it. You're no longer a family living in one home. All you can do is roll with it, and don't let your W steamroll you into making her own bad choices YOUR inconveniences.
I will miss my kids so much. The little things. The laughter, the drama, dinners, breakfasts, just having them come sit beside me and watch tv for a little while.
Why are you talking like those things are all going away? You do still have 50% custody, correct? A lot of people find that when they have less custody, they value it more and make better use of it. And when you don't have the kids, well that's your time to double or triple down on GAL.
3- W is still in her fantasy fog. I believe she has done enough financial moves to last her for at least a year (totally dependent on her spending habits which I fear will increase initially as she is getting her new place laid out).
Why is that YOUR fear? You have got to let her go!! I remember having the same thoughts about my ex. Figured there was no way she could manage her finances properly. Thought she might come crawling back after failing miserably on her own. Well guess what, 6 years later she still has her job, she has her own home, has a newer car, still buys gifts for the kids, does some traveling here and there. She is doing just fine without me, and your W probably will too.
I guess the BIG question I have is that based on our history and what has happened. Is there a decent chance that after D that we could get back together?
The chances are very small. Why? Because by the time she looks back, YOU will have moved on. It happens a lot- the LBS becomes the WAS.
Looking for input here to. Is she totally done with our marriage and moved on?
Yes. She thinks that change of heart is permanent, but it may or may not be. Only time will tell.
Or, is there a realization (or crash) coming when she is actually not with me?
Highly unlikely. She will probably enjoy being alone even if it's financially difficult.
I do hate what she is doing to our family
Don't blame, because blaming leads to resentment. If you were to ask her I'm sure she would say this is all your fault. This is why most locales have gone to "no-fault" divorces. Nearly every one is a case of "he said, she said".
Thanks everyone!
Yes. I am still way to attached to "her" outcome. Going to see an IC to help me through this stuff.
Going to fake it until I make it as best I can. I know for a fact I will be alright. I believe she will be as well. I just wanted better for us. For our family. I am pushing forward to a light that will shine on my life soon. I just want to get there. I want it quick but am cautious to make sure I do it right. The final settlement will be one that lasts for years. So long term not short term. W took a nap this morning from around 9 to 2ish. Only reason I know is my daughter texted me asking to pick something up that they were going to get.
I am writing these things down in a journal. I don't ever want to use the information I have. I am wanting an amicable agreement but I don't see her agreeing to anything near what I could do.
I wish I could blink my eyes and this would be done. I am so over this pain and anguish. WHY?
All of the advice was heard. Even though I hate this. I don't want it to happen. And I hate losing my family. There is absolutely NOTHING I can do about it. Period. The ONLY thing I can do is control how I react. Despite what she has said and currently believes, I know I am a good man and a good father. I also know I was a husband that most would only dream of and a happy home for many, many years.
Lastly, just going through this I have learned to treasure each and every moment with my kids. I did before, but it means so much more now.
Really looking for feedback from the Veterans out there!
We are moving into the D arena. We are trying to agree and file.
I am so done at the moment, but we exchanged thoughts on what we wanted and we are SO far apart on some.
I think we are about 75% of the way there, but that is mostly just kid stuff and easy stuff.
She is asking for a ton more than I wouldn't agree to unless forced to by a judge.
We are talking this evening to see if we can come to a solution.
Questions:
1-How far do I actually state what I know and how this could affect a judge/custody/money, etc.?
I know judges don't care about affairs, etc. Just an fyi, I have confirmed 1 that she had that dumped her hard and another one that she has ongoing now but I'm sure it will fizzle the same way. Either way, not my problem.
I am talking about true health issues. W slept 14 hours per day Thu/Fri/Sat/Sun.
Have proof she has been working but she "swears" she doesn't have a job. Yet she secured a new place of residence and is paying rent, utilities,etc.
She admittedly (in writing and recorded) has some major disabilities that could keep her from successfully caring for our children. Again, don't want to bring this up AT ALL!!!!!
Says in correspondence to the management firm that she has 2 jobs AND money in the bank to cover at least a years worth of rent. I've never seen this!
2- Having read stories, situations, etc on here. I know that D is not the end. There is some small hope (ithurts) that somewhere down the road we could R. Is this possible? I will DB through this whole thing. Is this smart? Or should I just throw in the towel and let it ride.
Sandi, if you are out there, please let me know your thoughts. You (and many, many others!) have given me so much insight into the thought process of the WW/WAW. I am looking at a totally different person who used to have values and morals but who is now "justifying" everything they do and "villifying" anything I say/do or don't say or do.
I know I can't "win" as I believe we have both lost. But how do I act through this?
Luckily, I don't think it will be long.
Help please!!!
Do you have a lawyer? If not, get one. Every one thinks this can be done without one. But it is a legal proceeding, and for that you need a lawyer.
Yea those are all questions for a lawyer.
Thanks guys.
I do have an attorney.
more looking for advice on the "non legal" side. The lawyer's will do what they will do.
D,
I don't think we are quite clear on what you are asking? Can you try again?
With the legal out of the way:
And the emotional/moral:
tackle each separately:
1) Splitting assess-Assinging value - equalize
2) Parenting plan
3) Future financial obligations
I always advise for 50/50 parenting split unless there are real issues. Sounds like you have real concerns. Deal with that after dealing with "Stuff".
House : One person values, other person decides if they want to keep it for that value.
401K's ect - they have value. help balance out value of house.
Do not quibble over little things.
H"W, I believe this item is worth X. Do you want it for that value or should I take it for that value."
or
"We disagree about the value of item X. Since you believe it is worth $yyy, you can have it for that value"
One person splits the cookie, the other picks.
D,
Question 2.
Yes reconciliation is possible. You move forward as it is not possible. If it comes to it you cross that bridge when you come to it.
Your W has a looooooooooooooooooot of issues she has to work out first.
1-How far do I actually state what I know
Keep your cards to yourself and your lawyer.
2- Having read stories, situations, etc on here. I know that D is not the end. There is some small hope (ithurts) that somewhere down the road we could R. Is this possible? I will DB through this whole thing. Is this smart? Or should I just throw in the towel and let it ride.
Keep focusing on personal growth. Keep making and enforcing boundaries. Make decisions based on your core values.
Half that money she has squirreled away in that bank account is likely yours unless she received a gift or had it before you were married.
...money in the bank to cover at least a years worth of rent. I've never seen this!
I have a clause about undisclosed assets that are omitted from the sworn financial affidavits.
Ask your lawyer about this.
Thanks for the input everyone. I purposely haven't been on for a few days.
Nothing new happening. W has signed her lease. Is paying rent at the new place. But currently still living at our current home in the spare room. More logistical than anything as kids are temporarily going to different parts of town at the same time and it would be impossible for either of us to accomplish this by ourselves.
Had a couple of discussions regarding D settlement issues. Have made some progress. Large ones are still looming. Funny. These seem to be the easiest for me to deal with and the toughest for her. Her constant comments about "Men, all they care about is money". Are humorous since that is ALL she is focused on during this. Dogs, who cares, furniture, split it, but you are asking me to pay some part of a bill? how dare you! We are married! Believe nothing they say.
It will only be days now until she is moved. No set date, but I imagine it will be before Thanksgiving, or very shortly thereafter.
We haven't fought. Except one bad discussion during one of the settlement talks. We ended it too late and we had both already taken our jabs. One very sad and heartfelt meeting when we were talking more on the emotional stuff dealing with the kids, dogs, etc. and how it is going to affect them. We both were very emotional. Although not reaching out physically, we both reached out mentally and supported one another as best we could. It was an emotional discussion and just felt both so normal to have that with her yet so unreal to have her refer and treat me like someone she cares about. We didn't dwell. Just got through it and moved on.
She has made a few comments on how she doesn't know how she is going to make it. I validate and move on. I'm not taking the bait on this one. Her choice. Not my problem. My only concern is our children. They are doing well. I'm concerned on the holiday situation and I am assuming that she will be gone and it will be an "exchange" type of holiday. Half with them, half without. I just want them to have fun and spend time with them. Christmas was always magic at our home! Christmas eve, great dinner, music, hanging out together then of course Christmas morning with waking up coming down stairs to the tree, the pageantry, the fun, their eyes filled with joy.
New memories moving forward!
Nothing else to report. Work is ok, need to get into that more (probably after thanksgiving". Still working out and a few GAL activities. No real bad days for awhile. Its still in my mind and I imagine it will be for sometime as the time does its thing and fades the pain, hurt and moves the heart on.
I still get dumbfounded at times at what she does. She made my favorite home made dinner on Sunday. She can't eat it, my daughter doesn't, son does so it was just for he and I. Don't know why she did. Maybe it is her way of just saying goodbye. Watching her slowly take things out of our home is distressing. At first, I was very upset. Now, after almost a month of "little here, little there" she has taken nothing big (it's coming soon) but now its just no big deal.
I believe I will be better once she is gone. I know it will not be easy, but I know just from her moving into the spare room for 3 weeks not that I have detached so much better. The connection of us sleeping in the same bed gave me so much false hope. I'm seeing her now more as a person and not my wife and partner. Her flaws, always there, are more pronounced. I see her still losing weight (dangerously thin, bmi has her anorexic). She is pale, sleeping all the time, complaining about her health yet never wanting to discuss or share so I don't know what is really going on. She has her old go to and standby's if she wants to blame anything and I wouldn't know if it was true or not other than the fact I have been with her for over 20 years and have taken care of her through all of the health stuff for over 10. No idea how she is going to handle this on her own.
Back to the day at hand!
As always, any comments are encouraged. This is a rough part of this journey and I think it will become darker as it happens prior to the light reshining again. Please, reach out and give even the smallest feedback.
I have gotten better.
But I seriously dislike when my W rewrites history.
She actually brought up a "situation" that happened just a few weeks into us dating and said that "should have told her right then how it was going to be". Really? First off. FIRST time I ever heard you had any sort of issue with that and it wasn't even an issue! I have gotten way better at not arguing back with her about this part of it, but sometimes it just gets old. You've been miserable for 21 years, I get it. The worst day of your life was when you met me and every day since, I get it. You can't wait to leave and be "rid of me", I get it (last one was not a re-writing, but seriously, I hear you, you are leaving).
Another part is that I am actually looking forward to the split. Mentioned this in the last post. This will drastically help me with the finality of detachment AND help me to move forward. Am I fearful that my STBXW will stumble many times coming out of the gate financially? Absolutely. Is it wrong to in one way look forward to her having to deal with budgets, jobs, kids, issues all by herself? Also, is it wrong that I am totally split on how I want it to go? Meaning. Somedays I want to picture her at the door, knocking, I open the door and she falls into my arms, we embrace, talk and who knows what from there. Somedays I just picture her stuck, crying and too proud to reach out even though she misses "our family and us" (eventually). Somedays I picture her stuck, crying and also not even wanting to reach out to me since she is done. Finally, there is a part of me that wishes her the best! That she will thrive for herself an our children. I know that seems totally weird and off the wall. But it is how I feel.
Looking at her know and seeing her off of the pedestal that I put her is truly revealing to me on a lot of levels. She is spoiled and selfish. She is no doubt aesthetically beautiful in every sense of the word. When she wants to be, she is a great person on the inside as well. Unfortunately, all I see now if the bad part of her. She gets so frustrated when I am just asking a question about our kids. It always goes back to her bringing up the past and how bad things always were.
I would love to tell all of you that I am done. I do know that this is going to happen. I am prepared. I am hoping the darkness will be short lived since we have been going through this for so long. If I thought there was a thread of light that could make it through, I would do all I could to make it happen. Alas it will not.
I guess this is it.
Headed out of town with the kids (just myself and them) for the holiday week.
Wife is moving during this time and we will be living separately.
I wish I was typing a bunch of different words here.
Nothing much else to say yet so much left to say.
Hang in there Dtrmined. Enjoy your time with your kids. Focus on them and on yourself.
You can do this!
Updating and commenting...
The week out with the kids was great! We had fun. One or two little incidents with attitudes, but when doesn't that happen. I made sure the kids were in contact with their Mom. We never spoke the entire week. It was weird, good and sad all at the same time.
She moved to her new place last week as well and began staying there. The kids and I got home on Saturday and we spend the night in our home, then their Mom came and got them on Sunday morning. I left the home to make it easier on everyone.
W and I had a small conversation on my return. It was pleasant. She actually talked about missing things and how its going to be difficult. At one point she said that it might be better to work things out. I didn't jump. I validated and listened. I'm sure its just a temp check and an initial down from missing the kids.
I did mention that we need to get everything finalized and filed. She, of course, acted as it she hadn't thought of anything (which may be true) while we were gone.
I cannot state any longer that my family is together in the same house. I can honestly say that my anxiety has diminished. I just miss my family. Keeping busy. GAL all the way.
Talked to my S briefly last night so that felt good.
Working through each day moving forward one step at a time. I am a good person. I am a good father. I have actual value in this world to offer.
At one point she said that it might be better to work things out. I didn't jump. I validated and listened.
GOOD! Very well done.
I did mention that we need to get everything finalized and filed. She, of course, acted as it she hadn't thought of anything (which may be true) while we were gone.
Not so good. My guess is that you didn't really mean that (because you could always file yourself) and were temp checking her to see if she had moved anything forward. Remember. Listen and validate.
Steve.
Thanks for the response. I always value your input.
I am serious about filing. I'm emailing her today. We have almost everything worked out except the big things (of course). Here are the options I am sending:
1) We hopefully agree and file jointly.
2) We don't agree, but still file jointly and move it forward.
3) I file.
Our conversation this weekend briefly touched on the fact that we need to get this done so we can move on to the being the best co-parents we can be for our kids. Questions keep coming up that in the past would have been easy. Now they are difficult since we aren't a team any longer. Just the tip of the iceberg I know, but I want to get this big stuff done so we can all move on and my kids can get some stability.
Do you think the email is appropriate? I am staying as dark, but some things need to either keep or just get moving.
Absolutely not.
I am resigned to that fact though as I see no other alternative.
I know that regardless, I will be fine and my kids will be fine. I am just tired. My career has suffered over the last 18 months immensely and I just need to get that back going. Her issues are just that, her issues. If we are still married, separated or not, I don't know how to do that and I believe I will be sucked back in and used more.
does that make any sense whatsoever?
Absolutely not.
I am resigned to that fact though as I see no other alternative.
I know that regardless, I will be fine and my kids will be fine. I am just tired. My career has suffered over the last 18 months immensely and I just need to get that back going. Her issues are just that, her issues. If we are still married, separated or not, I don't know how to do that and I believe I will be sucked back in and used more.
does that make any sense whatsoever?
Yes and no.
However, until you can answer the question with a yes, you are not ready to file....jointly or otherwise.
Do not file for D thinking it will end your pain. It will not. And certainly do not push for filing to evoke a response from her. It will backfire. Until you can answer yes to that question, make her do the work. If she wants a D let her do the filing, the paperwork, everything. Don't help with something you don't want.
Steve. I'm going to think on what you said for a little while prior to responding.
If it helps....there may come a day when you DO want a D. That you are tired of everything and say rather than wait any longer I WANT it to be. It sounds like you are on that road now with your first response. But you still said no to wanting a D.
I view it like knee surgery. No one wants knee surgery. But when you get to the point where it hurts immensely to walk then you say you want it rather than dealing with what you have. Everyone facing knee surgery deals with that. Similar to everyone facing D deals with it. We all know the recovery is long and difficult, so we put it off as long as we can but eventually cross over from avoidance to actually wanting it.
Ok.
I absolutely don't want a divorce.
I also absolutely cannot live in this situation any longer.
What other option do I have?
Ok.
I absolutely don't want a divorce.
I also absolutely cannot live in this situation any longer.
What other option do I have?
How bad is the pain when you walk? Is it so bad that you are willing to go under the knife and face months of physical therapy? Or can you live with it a while longer?
What other option do I have?
How bad is the pain when you walk? Is it so bad that you are willing to go under the knife and face months of physical therapy? Or can you live with it a while longer?
Are we dealing with arthritis or a broken bone? The bone could heal, but the cartilage won't.
Shout out to Steve for at least holding me on the edge yesterday.
Weird how life is. My D has a medical situation that required all of us coming together. So yesterday would have ended up being a really bad day to do anything to push my MR/D situation anywhere.
We came together well. Situation is still on going. No one got any sleep last night. Today will be more of the same.
Focus is all on our daughter right now. Period.
D, I'll keep your D and your family in my prayers.
I love that you are focusing on your D, very well played.
Thanks Steve.
I read your other post you put up. Read it all. VERY much true and I appreciate all of your insight.
Lots to do today, so probably not much posting or reading the rest of today.
Anyone reading, a prayer for my daughter and my family would be greatly appreciated!!
I hope all turns out well for your daughter, Dtrmined. Thinking of you!
Updating...
A very crazy day yesterday. mostly spent at the hospital and my daughter is now in a place for the next 3 days. I hope they give her the tools she needs to get back on track! Wasn't even supposed to see my W this week, but ended up spending close to 6 hours with her over the last 2 days and talking constantly about our daughter. Weird. We always come together very well with any crisis (except our MR, no jab intended, just pointing that out) so most of the conversations were easy and we communicated well. There were a few times I could have said some things, but I didn't. I listened, validated and did not steer anything towards our MR or any type of R talk. Even though I know part of the issue with our daughter is the MR relationship and how it is and has gone.
Already spoken with her twice regarding our kids this morning. There was one financial issue that came up. She dodged it quickly, I didn't force it and moved the focus back to our children.
My first time without the kids. I wouldn't wish what my daughter is going through on anyone, but it was great to see them both even for a short time. I am hoping I get a little time to visit with my daughter this evening (her choice if she wants visitors or not). It is lonely at the house. Dealing with that loss and doing all I can to keep busy. Man. I am cleaning and doing stuff like nobody's business!
I am constantly battling the sadness, loneliness and loss presently. The "weight" of our relationship and having her out of the home is good. My kids being gone is not. Understandable with what is going on, my W looks very tired, can't complete her sentences when we talk and is always saying she is exhausted and needs sleep. I am making sure that I am always looking my best as I truly don't know when I will get a call and may have to meet for something regarding our kids. Just preparing for the future mostly. I don't like it. I still love my wife. GAL all the way. Adding in some more activities both with the kids (next week) and individually when I unfortunately don't have them. Went to a Christmas party a couple of nights ago as well. I was a work related function, but a couple hundred people, food and drink. It was fun. I didn't tell my W that I was going. No one to answer to at home so I didn't volunteer. She did call during the event and I took the call since it might have been about our daughter. She said "whats that in the background" and I informed her I was at a function. She hesitated for a moment and then said "well, I didn't know you were doing that and I guess you don't have to let me know either". I didn't respond. I did get a compliment or two on how I looked so that was a nice ego boost. I did leave early but I think it was a successful evening out. I have another one next week as well. Keeping busy and looking forward to having my children back on Friday!
Looking for some feedback today please.
I was reading through some posts a little bit ago and came across one that talks about becoming the man you were (or the man you want to be) and some suggestions on this. This "used" to be me. I wasn't worried about anything. I walked with purpose with my head held high. I was no better than anyone, I just knew I would work harder, smarter and better than they would. Realizing I lost this part of myself a while ago. That "my purpose" became figuring out how to take care of my W with her issues. I became her caregiver of sorts and as I said, lost myself in the process.
We are now physically separated. The weight of the "situation" is no longer weighing on my shoulders everytime I pull in the driveway. This, I believe, is a good thing. I am calmer. I am handling things better. I am even sleeping better. There are still some very down times, but they are further apart. I kind of lost it by myself when I got the Christmas decorations out of storage to put them out. 21 years of memories just jumped out at me. It was VERY emotional for a little bit. This week is the anniversary of the date we actually started dating. I had forgotten until it just popped in my mind yesterday for no reason.
Unfortunately, we have to communicate and have seen each other ever day due to our D still being in the hospital (she will be ok, but may be there a couple of more days). So there really hasn't been any time for us to not communicate. I keep my questions/answers short. yes/no if possible and validate whenever possible. It is difficult sometimes as she is still very selfish and therefore not really concerned about our children's responsibilities school or otherwise at this time. I am choosing my battles. When we have seen each other, I make sure I look the best I can. Jeans and a T-shirt or a suit when appropriate, I have always looked like I walked off a magazine page. Not a competition between us, but she is looking very tired, dangerously thin (I did the math and she is by the bmi calculator at an anorexic weight. Bags under her eyes and she rarely has her hair and makeup done (usually just the "i'm going to the grocery" make up and hair. Clothes are sometimes covered in animal hair, wrinkled, unmatched, etc. We only have a short window to see our daughter and it is in the early evening so it is not like she didn't have time to get ready or anything for the day or just for her daughter.
She has cashed everything in to fund her lifestyle for a little while. I don't see her changing her mind any time soon and the longer I "let" this go on without filing or anything else, I feel will just enable her more enhance her feeling of my not being a "man".
DB'ing is counter intuitive or so this has been mentioned at least once or twice on here. If that is true, my instincts are to "take care" of my W (NGS) and wait this out. The counter intuitive part of me says to drop her like a bad habit and if she changes her mind, if I'm open to it, then cool. If not, let's move this on. What do you guys think? Steve, I know you are going to ask the same question "Do you want a D?" I absolutely do not. I also am the only one left in this MR so it really doesn't matter what I want at this time. I need a stable home for my children and for myself. If that includes my W, then awesome, if not, then awesome as well.
What do you guy's think?
I guess
I think if you are asking us, you're still not quite ready. You will know if it is right for you to file. Unless there is a pressing legal/safety/emotional health reason, maybe hold off for a bit.
IF however, you feel like you just wish to move on then by all means go ahead and file. You seem to be making healthy choices, so continue along that path.
This is a question only you can answer.
Concentrate on what you can control. You. DO NO TRY RESCUE HER. She doesn't want you to rescue her no matter how bad she looks.
Let's talk about wanting a D. As I said before, eventually your desire to heal and move on will outweigh the "I don't want a D" stance. As in, "Yes, I will take a D over this." BD is almost 15 months ago. No one would blame you for moving forward with a D at this point. But make sure you are all in on it before doing it. Regrets are not fun to live with.
Since I'm at a similar decision point, for similar reasons (to enabling her to continue disrespecting me and treating me like "less than a man" by controlling the D process and trying to force what she wants), I'm curious: Steve, you and AS have said on various occasions that if we file there might be regret. What would the regret be? I mean, what are the things to take into consideration here? What would it look like for a poster to express regrets about filing?
Burned. I appreciate the question. I think Steve was referring to, for example, if I filed I never would know if waiting, dbing and being amoafwl would have worked. Reading through the posts (yours included) the common theme is that as men we are doers and we feel like we have to do something, anything to move our lives forward. When in reality if we can just relax, sit back and let time do what it needs to, perhaps the WAW/WW will have the opportunity to reflect and may choose that the MR is a better option. Does it always work out? I've seen many times on this board that the odds are not in the LBS's favor. I've also read a bunch that have worked as well. I guess that is the question and the lucky get to know only because their spouse chose to come back. If they don't, you NEVER know WHY! And you NEVER know if you had done things differently if it would have resulted in a different outcome.
Dtrmned/Burned,
I am curious what you both think filing for D will accomplish? My thoughts are it probably won't change anything for you guys or for your W's.
RyanHun, I don't think it will change anything in my case, just speed up the process and start the healing. But there is always that Steve guy whispering in my ear "give it another day" "relax" " let the process work". Wise words. I am tired of my W just using me. period. But the whispers are still there. Rumor has it one day I will not hear the whispers any longer and I will know it is time to proceed. Until then I'm just a frustrated LBS trying to get through this with some sanity left over!!!
Dtrmned,
I am very new to all this but letting go of things will start the healing process not filing for D. Filing for D also will not likely stop W from using you, only your actions and responses to her can stop that. I'm sure Steve will chime in.
Updating.
Been a couple of days. Mostly quiet but some interesting happenings.
My daughter is back home and safe! Very happy about that and we all (my son, daughter and I) had a good night of Christmas music, decorating and fun. VERY happy Daddy right here on that!
On the W front. Nothing has really changed. I am more humored now than before about her techniques. Everytime I bring up something that needs to be done (usually financial) she states that I "must be upset about something and am taking it out on her". I listen, validate, but she wants nothing to do with that. I have done this before, but made the mistake of saying "I'm sorry you feel that way, it was not my intention to come off that way" to which she replies "that is the worst statement you can ever say. It is like you are just dismissing my feelings entirely". I paused and simply said that I didn't know how else to say that I heard her, understand what she said her feelings were, and that I had zero animosity or reason to antagonize. I was simply asking a question (albeit financial and thus her reason for avoidance). The anniversary of when we got together (first date) came and went this week. Rough day for me, but I did not reach out except for texts about our daughter. I did hear from my daughter that my W actually mentioned it to her and that she had a hard day that day. Not reading too much into it, but there must be some feelings left because if there weren't, it would not have even bothered her. More financial issues had to be discussed yesterday and she got a little upset. Then later we met (regarding our daughter again) and she said that her day had drastically improved. I don't know if she was playing it or being real since at that time she looked horrible. It was weird yesterday for me. This is probably the first true time that I have seen her differently through my eyes. It didn't have to do with the way she looked, even though it was bad, but it had to do with the way my mind was interpreting who she was, how she looked and how I felt about her. I will always love and care about her. Yesterday, I felt for the first time that I was just looking at the mother of my children and not my wife. In the past, I was always looking at her through the "she is my wife" goggles. 20+ years of love, partnership, children, challenges, fun, success, vacations, just life! But yesterday it was WAY different. I didn't even realize it until 20 minutes into the meeting. She's always had them because everyone does, but I never noticed her flaws. They were just jumping out at me. Her weight loss is staggering and medically not healthy. Looking at her face, hair, hands and nails all of which were not done, poorly done or just looking ragged and tired. I also didn't feel the need to rescue her in any way. I just felt sorry for her. The conversation was just not us, but other people were in the room. She forgot and left out important details that I had to fill in for her so they got the full information needed. I don't know if she forgot or intended to leave them out.
She is beginning to drop the ball on a lot of things. Some require me to pick them up, point them out, or whatever. The one's that don't concern me I don't worry about or pursue.
Busy day today. Work, meetings, lunch with my daughter, then get my son and head home to do a little more decorating, dinner and hopefully a family movie tonight! They go back to their Mom's tomorrow and I already miss them terribly. Our house is a home when they are there and I enjoy them so much!
D,
Glad to hear your daughter is back home and safe. Enjoy every minute with them this holiday season.
I know its never over until I throw in the towel, but does anyone see a chance of this ever turning around?
I am going as dim as possible, which is hard considering the my daughter's medical issues. Now that we are apart, I feel tons better and also feel that she has the chance to actually think (or not) now that we aren't in the same home. I am still db'ing, GAL and working on myself more and more everyday. I don't find her consuming my thoughts ever moment as well so that is a good thing.
The elephant of pressure has been lifted off of my chest. I do find myself wondering from time to time about her, but I am thankful that it is not all consuming any longer. I guess time will tell.
I wish that we could just have a pleasant conversation. All of our talks are about our kids or money.
Yes but likely years down the road. By then you probably will have moved on.
Thanks LH.
This is my greatest fear right now. That we are better together than apart. I know she is off doing her "thing" whatever that may be. I'm sure it is not how I imagine it, but somewhere between her lying in bed crying over a picture of us to picture her with another person, and it would be from the one extreme to the other across the board! I also know that this is the "euphoric" period for her. She has escaped! (in her mind). She is out of the "problem marriage" and she can now live her life. She has her buffer in place for a little while financially. Life will happen sooner rather than later. Again, I don't wish her well, I do know that life is rough. And doing it alone is hard when you've had someone helping and pretty much taking care of everything for a long number of years.
Dropped my kids off at school today, First time knowing I won't see them for a week. I'm also positive that I will see them sometime as I'm sure they will have forgotten something they will need to pick up. I told my W that she needs to make sure I am home prior to her coming into my house. "We" of course lived there, but since she has moved out, and I have no key or access to her home, I think it only fair that I be there when she wants to come into mine. Is this the right thing to do?
My GAL activities are booked for the week, but I am still feeling the loneliness creep in since the kids are gone. God I miss them so much already! Great time watching a movie with my son last night and an awesome conversation with my daughter last night and a great brief one this morning, so VERY happy Daddy again!!!
I think going as dim as possible is the best thing. W needs time to process, go through her stuff, time to realize that I wasn't as bad as she thought, and also time to realize that the grass isn't always greener. For me, it is GAL, concentration on work and planning fun stuff for when I get the kids back. I know I already have a few things planned for next weekend with them!
All advice appreciated. Again, going as dim/dark as I can and letting her do her thing. SHE has to come to any realization (if she does or if she even does in time) for this to happen. I can just DB, GAL, Work and have some fun.
This is the first post that I have made that will say that this is Friday and my family is now not in the same home.
I told my W that she needs to make sure I am home prior to her coming into my house. "We" of course lived there, but since she has moved out, and I have no key or access to her home, I think it only fair that I be there when she wants to come into mine. Is this the right thing to do?
YES.
Dropped my kids off at school today, First time knowing I won't see them for a week. ...My GAL activities are booked for the week, but I am still feeling the loneliness creep in since the kids are gone. God I miss them so much already! ...All advice appreciated.
Hopefully text messages and phone calls continue from kids. Good night calls and text.
Keep yourself busy. When you get home On Fridays, turn on some music, and straighten up the house. Clean it up and then it is ready for any adults that you have over.
Start making it a more "Manly" house. A little each week. I started in bedroom. Living room and kitchen next.
Then next Thursday, Get it ready for kids to show up. Pickup a few groceries for friday night dinner. I Would take my kids grocery shopping etc on Sat for the next weeks meals.
Enjoy your time alone. Enjoy your time as Dad.
Had a good GAL weekend. Hikes on Saturday and Sunday. Went out Fri and Sat night and had a late lunch out on Sunday so I kept busy. I also cleaned the heck out of the house Saturday as well. It was fun and it looks great! I miss my kids at home though. Then this morning I got rocked back into being sad. Had a friend of my W and ours just text merely asking if we still lived at our same address (assumption she was sending out Christmas cards). I responded that yes, I still lived there. I guess she caught the "I" and called and asked if we were separated. I said yes. I didn't give details. I simply asked that she contact my W to get her new address as I wanted to respect her privacy so she could give it to whom she chooses. I also asked for our friend to support my W. I emphasized clearly that i was not looking for anyone to "lobby" on my behalf, simply that my W could use some friends that have known her prior to all of this and know how happy and who she was. I don't know if this is right or wrong, but I do truly wish my W the best and the support of her long term friends that knew her before can support her through this as well and not just the new friends that are feeding into her waywardness. Probably selfish on my part, but I did pause, think and decided I truly was suggesting this for her and not for "us" or just "me".
W and kids came by on Saturday to pick up something for one of the kids. They were in and out in about 20 minutes. I had just finished the house and again it looked great. Small interactions with W. Nothing regarding anything other than kids. Keeping busy today. Lunch with a colleague and dinner with a friend tonight. At the moment I just feel like running away. The friend contact this morning really knocked me back for a minute. My head is clearer and clearer as each day goes. I feel my confidence and even swagger coming back. This week I will get the kids some present and put them under the tree. Question: Should I work with my W regarding present for the kids? I'm not talking about buying them together or anything, just letting her know what I am getting them and what she is getting them so we both don't get the same thing and it is not an all out competition or anything. Also, asking, is it inappropriate to invite her for Christmas Eve and stay in the guest room for Christmas morning? Too much? Too soon? Too enabling? Too attached? Too selfish on my part? Too many questions!!!!!
Back at work and again, the text flooded it all back and I am in my head presently, I will shake it off and get back. I am thankful for this board. I miss my wife, I miss my family, I miss my partner, I miss my lover, I miss my friend. Some moments it is just too much to bear. This weekend I was more detached than ever. I engaged in conversations with people I didn't even know and they were interested. The knowledge that I will be fine is now there. I know I will be.
bump for a little feedback..
Question: Should I work with my W regarding present for the kids? I'm not talking about buying them together or anything, just letting her know what I am getting them and what she is getting them so we both don't get the same thing and it is not an all out competition or anything.
Yes. Always parent. No covert interactions for R.
Text:
H:"W, I am headed out shopping to buy kids gift A, Gift B and Gift C"
or
H"W, I am planning on ordering gilft A B and C for the kids this evening"
Also, asking, is it inappropriate to invite her for Christmas Eve and stay in the guest room for Christmas
morning?
YES. this is pursing.
YES
YES
YES
YES
YES
NO
Updating.
It's Friday and I am very excited to pick up my kids and have them for this next week!
Not much interaction with my W this week.
We texted a couple of times and spoke once. She is VERY tired from the week of running the kids and she did her best to bait me in a few times to argue. I never took the bait. I only spoke to her regarding a few financial things that were imminent and had to be done. She did take her stance on "I can't pay that" and I asked why not since I know for a fact she has a LOT of cash from cashing out everything she has. Her response was that "its none of my business". I let it go. She asked for us to meet up next week since she wants to split our stuff up. I said "ok" let's schedule a time so we can discuss everything since there is lots to discuss. She responded back and made an underhanded jab at me. I again, did not respond and let it go. Just skimmed over it and answered the questions that were asked as briefly as possible.
When we spoke yesterday, she said that "we are all just so exhausted from the week and running on fumes!". I tried to validate that "I bet its been a rough week" since I know they had a lot of running to do. But again, this is her choice and I often wonder (not my problem) how she is going to fit a job in there when her money runs out in a few months.
Decent GAL week. Worked out, work, 2 lunches and 2 dinners out with friends and 1 dinner out by myself. House is clean. A few more decorations to be put up and a bunch of baking this weekend. I'm going to take the kids shopping, give them a little (just a little) money so THEY can purchase a gift for their mother. If this is wrong, please let me know. This is not from me. I am not picking it out. I am merely providing a little capital.
I haven't seen her in a week. Briefly saw her last Saturday as they stopped by to pick something up. I do miss her. And my family in the same home. I don't miss the tension and long periods of awkward silence. I am db'ing by going as dim as I can outside of the kids. I have only initiated one text this week and that is the one regarding the issues that needed immediate attention. Brief and to the point. She is playing her game as well. I love it when I realize this part. She waits her certain amount of time prior to responding. Totally textbook on her end.
I don't know how the holidays will work out. One of the things we are discussing next week. Christmas, New Year's and a kid's birthday in between so lots to figure out for everyone.
No idea how she is doing other than exhausted. Hopefully she is thinking and who knows what her agenda is for our meet up next week. For me, I will listen, validate and discuss only the financial and custody arrangements. No R talk, no blame, nothing like that at all. I have to work up for that one, but I know I can do it!
Peace to all. For a few brief moments yesterday while stuck in traffic on the freeway, listened to some of my favorite Christmas songs and caught a little Christmas spirit!
Looking forward to my kids being HOME!!
I'm going to take the kids shopping, give them a little (just a little) money so THEY can purchase a gift for their mother. If this is wrong, please let me know. This is not from me. I am not picking it out. I am merely providing a little capital.
This is perfect. You are Dad and are teaching the kids life lessons.
Good weekend with the kids!
A couple of issues with my daughter. Not with our relationship, just teenage drama and stuff. It was pretty important, and I got the opportunity since she was here to sit, talk with her, and kind of ride out her emotional roller coaster for a few hours late on Friday.
It did get a little serious so I did update her Mom on this. It's weird. Either she just doesn't care, or she doesn't want me to be involved or some combination of these. W seems to want to block me and cut me out every chance she gets. If it is about the kids, I share everything that I feel is important. She, presently, does not. I don't know if she just doesn't think about it or just doesn't want to communicate with me at all. Just feels exclusionary. I'm going to keep doing what I am doing and am only contacting about the kids.
But, we had a good weekend. Shopping, baking, decorating, movies, eating, it was GOOD!
As far as my MR. DB'ing. GAL is down a little due to the kids schedules being off for finals this week. BUT, I get more time with them so that is good! Supposed to meet with my W this week to go over some financials and splitting up the furniture and "stuff" that we have accumulated. That should be fun. I am just going into the meeting first to listen. Then validate her feelings and thoughts. Briefly discuss anything that needs to. And get it over with.
We also have to discuss the holiday schedule for the next couple of weeks.
Should be FUN! Not looking forward to it, not dreading it.
Don't know why, just down a little bit today.
I am enjoying my kids a ton and having fun with them outside of school stuff and the are responding very well.
I guess I'm just down about the holidays. Its very depressing. W still hasn't called to set a time to "discuss" things. I'm sure expects me to be at her beck and call, but that won't happen. Unfortunately there are some things that must be discussed. We still don't have a Christmas schedule set up either! UGH! I'm frustrated. Not like before though when it was more of an angry frustration. This is more of a sad frustration. I just miss my family being together. I miss the fun times. I miss my partner. I know this will blow over and I appreciate everyone investing their time in allowing me to vent.
Work is slow so I have a little more time, but it is spent this week shuttling and hanging with the kids.
No idea what my W is thinking or doing. I think about it from time to time just because we used to be so close. I am not obsessing as I once was about what she is doing or whom she is with. My heart just hurts at the moment.
The holidays are rough when in the midst of our sitches. I can attest to this based on last year. Hang in there!
Weird text from W this morning and I wanted to ask the forum.
Since we have been physically separated, I have gone dark as much as possible.
We haven't discussed Christmas yet. She said she wanted to meet and talk earlier this week about "a lot of things" but has yet to say anything. The kids still facetime her at night, but other than that, I haven't heard from her for 3-4 days. She sends me a text out of the blue asking what I had gotten the kids and what was on their lists. I waited a few hours to respond to that one yesterday as she was given both lists, and I don't want to be at her beck and call and respond too quickly. After that, she texted this morning asking that she wanted to know cause she was "trying to think ahead" don't know what that means since Christmas is Tuesday!. and "just wondering where you were with things". referring to Christmas gifts for the kids. Other than letting her know what I got them that is larger and on their list so there are no duplicates, why does she want to know? It also seemed to me that she was inferring (not trying to mindread) that we were going to do Christmas (as far as purchasing the presents) for the kids together. Just seemed weird to me. Thoughts? How should I respond?
Respond as a parent.
When in doubt about anything, ask yourself these questions:
1) Is this parenting related?
2) What is the right thing to do for my kids?
Make things simple.
As far as meeting about a lot of things:
H:"W, I don't see any free time in my schedule. If it is important, send me an email and I look over what you have to say."
Unfortunately I couldn’t help it today got sucked into an argument with my wife. Totally involved the kids housing finances everything in some ugly words were said just wasn’t good. Don’t know what to do other than that we’ve kind of been getting along OK but everything just blew up I don’t know if it’s just the normal course of things but I guess we were both a little on edge today and neither of us will I didn’t stop.
It just seems that the arguments when they happen are more severe now because everything is so apparent and real and it means real money real time real effort real problems and it doesn’t give any time to have good quality interactions when all of our actions involved what you said finances kids and emotionally negative things that are going on. How do you DB through this win every action that you have is so paramount. Examples would be of course divorce and selling of assets or disposing of assets or moving one thing out of one person’s name or both peoples names into the other separating everything else it’s all encompassing and it’s all weighing on that I feel both of her shoulders and it’s hard to attempt to re-establish any kind of connection or anything through this so how can I improve myself through this an attempt of course the ultimate goal of being a man only a fool would leave but To save my family and begin a new marriage I just don’t know comments help?
You need to take a step back and relax man. Take a breath, go for a walk, go do something. Just remember to not let them suck you into a fight. Just go silent and remove yourself from the situation. I have a VERY hard time doing that as well. I would rather fight just to be right than shut up when I should be shutting up. I have done a much better job of it and things have been calm lately.
Stop thinking of the future. Think of RIGHT NOW and what you are going to do now to get yourself back on track with DB, GAL and 180. Take note of your actions that led up to the fight and make sure you don't repeat them. PMA man. Law of Attraction. YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS.
Thanks and I know I will get through this. Unfortunately the things were talking about our immediate issues that have to be dealt with now and they’re very pressing in very just harsh realities of separating divorce all of those things. I would love to put things off for a while but there are some of the things have to have decisions now. It’s just difficult with the feelings and the emotions and the person you’ve been with for so long that knows how to trigger you and tries to trigger you and wants to hurt you as much as they can in the moment and I’m trying and doing your best to restrain yourself I am human and can’t always be at my best and unfortunately I wasn’t today. Some things were said that I’m pretty sure can’t be taken back on both sides how do we how do I deal with that moving forward.
Always do your best. Some days your best will be be better than others.
Apologize. Simple text: H:"W, I am sorry I argued with you."
An update for those that have been helping and following.
Not much has happened since the blow up except that W has went as dark as she can be. I actually have welcomed that and things are calmer and quieter. Issues are still out there regarding finance, bills, etc. that have to be dealt with. Unfortunately, W does not want to discuss or communicate on these issues so they are left to me to deal with. With the 3 exchanges that happened since over the holidays, we had zero interaction on 2 of them and a small information exchange on the last one.
She is very upset at me since I called her out on a few things during the blow up and she knows that she can't play the "victim" role any longer. Her lies and deceit are out there and she knows that I know so I think she went dark for embarrassment, shame and her usual "curl up and don't deal with and it will go away" views on life.
D was talking to me that she is severely concerned about her mom as she has lost more weight and there may be a very serious health issue. W is 5'8 and now weighs under 110lbs. Prior to having children, when we started dating 21 years ago, she weight 125. That was without the breast enhancement after our son for her self esteem. I didn't oppose it (a little LOL there), but it was totally her choice. Whether she was 170lbs (not pregnant) or whatever weight, I've always viewed her as my beautiful, amazing, desireable wife. If you do the BMI math, that puts her at an anorexic level. But my D thinks my W is in denial about the issue because she thinks it is very bad and refuses to go see a doctor about it. I listened and validated with my D and just told her to support her mom. My other concern is that this may be a medical issue, a major depression issue or a drug abuse issue. Or a combination of the 3. I don't know what else I can do except support my D through this. My W will not share any of this with me (especially if it is the later 2 issues).
Other than that, I'm just plugging along with the GAL's. I enjoy my kids when I have them. and DB'ing everything I can.
D was talking to me that she is severely concerned about her mom as she has lost more weight and there may be a very serious health issue. W is 5'8 and now weighs under 110lbs. Prior to having children, when we started dating 21 years ago, she weight 125. That was without the breast enhancement after our son for her self esteem. I didn't oppose it (a little LOL there), but it was totally her choice. Whether she was 170lbs (not pregnant) or whatever weight, I've always viewed her as my beautiful, amazing, desireable wife. If you do the BMI math, that puts her at an anorexic level. But my D thinks my W is in denial about the issue because she thinks it is very bad and refuses to go see a doctor about it. I listened and validated with my D and just told her to support her mom. My other concern is that this may be a medical issue, a major depression issue or a drug abuse issue. Or a combination of the 3. I don't know what else I can do except support my D through this. My W will not share any of this with me (especially if it is the later 2 issues).
This is a very, very difficult subject. If a WAS is having serious health problems, what can the LBS do? It's frustrating to be sure. If you say anything to her she won''t listen. If you say something to friends or relatives then that will get back to her and she will be angry with you that you are "going behind her back" or "trying to rally the troops against her". But the other side of the coin is she may have some serious issues that need addressing. Whenever I see a post like this it reminds me of a LBS that used to post here years ago, he and his W split and he went dark on her. She was having all kinds of struggles but wouldn't listen to him when he said she needed help. He didn't post for a long time and then came back to say that she had committed suicide. I'm sure he at least partially blamed himself for not taking more action. I mean it is not at all his fault, but of course any of us would struggle with feeling like we should have done more.
So my response to you is this- if it gets to the point where you think she is in serious danger of a mental breakdown, or dying of malnutrition, or whatever it may be; then raise the red flag. It will not help your sitch and may very well hurt it, but if she's at the point of life and death then that is more important than your R with her.
Tons of stuff going on but I am handling it much better.
I am not as jumpy or quick to lash out at anything lately.
I'm continuing my GAL's, especially the weeks when the kids are gone.
My D is struggling with her issues and it is difficult to co-parent on a level field with someone who:
1- doesn't want to talk to me since I called her out and she pretty much knows that I know she isn't the "victim" in this.
2- in her wayward state her values are so misconstrued that I have no idea where she is coming from.
D is almost giving up. I am supporting and validating her feelings and emotions. But I feel my efforts will not be at all fruitful if her mom and I do not come together to get our D through this.
Other than that, I am moving forward. Bills are getting transferred from me being the only one responsible to either being split or moved to W entirely. She has some BIG surprises coming up for her. Car registration, insurance, health insurance that she will now have to pay for, etc. I have no idea what she is doing or with whom she is doing it with. I would love to say that i don't care, but I can honestly say that I don't obsess like I did when she was in the house with us. We will go days at a time without texting and it has been a couple of weeks since we actually spoke on the phone. Humorously and sadly (to me) she had to drop some things off for the kids. I heard the front door open and the reopen and I asked my D what she was doing. She responded that mom just dropped off a few things for us. She is so set on not seeing me that she didn't even come in and see her son or her dogs (she hasn't seen them in about 3 weeks).
I am getting my legs back underneath me more and more everyday. I'm preparing for everything to blow up as the realities of life hit my W. I am also prepared that maybe they won't. She might be just fine on her new path. And that's ok too. The wish of karma is huge but also the wish for her to be happy and a good mom to my kids I think is bigger.
Looking to get more social. In no way shape or form am I saying I am ready to date or anything like that at all. There was a work related event in a couple of weeks that would have been fun, but it is a couples Gala and I am not interested in seeing a few hundred coupled people having fun interacting in a room together. At all.
But, looking forward to the weekend with some sports, hikes and probably a trip to the sports bar to watch a few games on Sunday. The kids go back tomorrow to their mom's so the house tomorrow so it will be back to just me and the dogs. It's lonely when they are gone, but I have made a list of home projects to do this week while they are gone to keep me busy.
I am db'ing all the time. Although with almost no interactions it is very few and far between. I don't initiate any conversation unless it is about the kids or financial that has to be dealt with.
Still a few shreds of hope but I am not counting on it.
Moving forward it is doing what is best for my children and me.
I am curious what you would call where I am right now in terms of my MR.
W moved out in November. We have had a couple of blow ups that first month, but we are now settled into a routine of kids on/off, etc. I am moving things out of "our" name into individual names as things come due. Auto insurance, health insurance, cell phone bills, etc. We communicate well even though it is only about kids and finances. Kids is generally about school, issues, etc. So nothing is ever good. When we text, I only respond with the shortest answer needed. Brief and to the point. When we are speaking (our D still has some major issues she is dealing with) it does sometimes still get heated, but we have discovered how to handle that better on both sides. I am GAL, concentrating on work and the kids more and more all the time. I can now see a life without my W. I do still desire and wish for a reconciliation but am resigned that at present I need to focus on my future and how to create a good life and home for my kids. She has not made one inch of effort into filing. I am hesitant until I get everything transferred out of our joint names. In our state, if you file, everything remains "status quo" until it is done so if it was joint at filing, it remains that way until it is done.
So am I still in limbo?
Until D'd, and moved on with someone new, I would say yes.