Hi,
I am new to the site and in need of help as my plight is looking pretty desperate.
I have been married for 16 years now and a few months ago my wife announced she wanted a D.
To be fair I should have known it was coming as we had both been unhappy for a few years and she said
one day she will D me. But I ignored this so you could say it's my own fault.
When she told me this I made changes and all seemed good for 2 months or so, we had a great family holiday too, I have two kids of 11 and 8.
Anyway, the reason we got in this state was because we both have fought for years. Our arguments were always really heated and most times one or both of us would say terrible things to each other.
I am not proud of the way I treated her at all, sometimes I have been appalled at the things I have said to her. Whilst she was sometimes violent and toxic with me I should have learnt to manage my aggression and my mouth. But the problem was always that I hate conflict and when we fought I would always try and talk things through when I should have learnt just to shut up and give her time.
Anyway two weeks ago she caused arguments as she was stressed at work and took it out on me. I never argued back as for these two months I had decided I had to change. Anyway she then said she wanted a divorce. I was horrified as I did not think I had done anything to warrant it this time. Stupidly I grabbed her in some stupid desperate attempt to sort the problem out. Unfortunately both kids saw the incident. This happened on the 30th September and she filed for divorce 2 days later. Although I still have not been served with the papers but I know she has done it as she paid with a credit card.
I moved out during this time and for a week or so I did all the pleading and arguing, stuff I know is wrong. I know this now. Anyway the two weeks separation has just made things worse. I therefore have decided to move back into the house tomorrow. She is so annoyed and said she doesn't want me there. Says she doesn't love me and there is no way back. But I don't want to D so feel I need to be back at the house and fight for the marriage.
But she won't have anything to do with me and won't do anything with all four of us. She even is planning to go out on Saturday as she can't bear to be under the same roof as me.
I have ordered the DB and DR books and will do the DBing technique but I am worried I can't come back from this regardless. My only hope is to stick to DBing and hope she drops the D at some point. But I am not confident. I would do anything to sort this out.
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
I therefore have decided to move back into the house tomorrow. She is so annoyed and said she doesn't want me there.
Good decision.
W"Bla bla bla bla bla don't want you in the house..bla bla bla"
W"Bla bla bla bla bla ..bla bla bla"
W"Bla bla bla bla bla ..bla bla bla"
W"Bla bla bla bla bla ..bla bla bla"
W"Bla bla bla bla bla ..bla bla bla"
Keep listening. maintain eye contact. Wait till she is done. Wait for a long pause, then calmly:
H "I am sorry you feel that way. I am sorry for hurting you in the past. "
let her interrupt and then listen....any long pauses, continue:
"I decided I want to live in this house"
"I decided I like sleeping in the master bedroom"
"I do not want to argue with you"
"I want us both to be happy"
"I see many solutions to our issues"
"If divorce is the only way for you to be happy, I will not stand in your way"
"My relationship with you is important"
"You are free to leave."
Theses are some good examples, Any thing you want to add?
A couple of suggestions/thoughts...
It sounds like she met with a lawyer, but may not have pulled the trigger on the divorce yet. Maybe you should talk to her about it. If she has, you should consult with a lawyer and understand your rights.
If you have not apologized for your past behavior, I suggest you do so. Not a snivelling, grovelling apology, but a sincere one. But don't keep apologizing over and over.
Get individual counselling. Try to get her to go to individual and couples' counselling. You both sound like you need it, and need to learn new ways to settle disagreements.
Don't worry about what you did in the past. You can't change it. Change what you do going forward. It may take a long time before you see any result. I would say, really, all changes have to be for you, not her. If you are changing for her, not only will the changes not last, but she'll sense the insincerity.
You did not do anything recently to warrant her filing. It is a recurrent theme that the spouse leaving makes the decision, is content and happy with the decision, and looks about how to implement it. In those weeks/months, the Left Behind Spouse (LBS) thinks "we aren't fighting any more! Our relationship is improving!" When in reality, the Walk Away Spouse (WAS/WAH/WAW) just doesn't care enough to fight any more.
This has been coming a long time, and it will take a long time to convince her she really doesn't want to divorce. Time is your friend. It gives you an opportunity to change yourself, and her an opportunity to see the changes, and reconsider.
Depending on your situation, Get A Life (GAL). This takes a lot of pressure off her.
Don't pursue her. She needs space.
Add a signature block so people will know your general situation at a glance without having to go back 6 pages.
The more you participate on other's pages, the wiser you will be, and the more people will participate on yours.
One last thought; your marriage may be irretrievably lost. Many of us come here hoping to salvage our marriages, but find that the real value of this site is in saving ourselves.
Oh, yeah, protect your kids as much as you can. This is going to $uck for them. Make it $uck as little as you can.
Good luck.
welcome to the board c. stay strong!
She has definitely filed as saw credit card payment for the fee, this was on 2nd October. Just not had papers yet, not sure how long they take probably depends on court. I am in England.
I already have apologised to W and kids. I know she accepts my apology but just says I went too far this time and there is no way back.
I went too far this time and there is no way back.
This is a common thing for them to say.
Foregive yourself for what ever transgression you made and also know that you could have stood on your head and
spit out money and she would still have likely wanted a divorce at some point.
Time now to really become the best CROFTON you can be and the BEST DAD possible.
I would not have advised you to move out but that sounds like it might be too late.
DB'ing is counter intuitive, nothing you say is going to bring her back.
Speak with ACTIONS not WORDS and - let her go.
LOVE is a CHOICE and until she decides she wants to make that CHOICE you can not force her to do that.
Keep Posting
I am new to this site too ... though my sitch has been going on for a year. Writing things here helps me get my thoughts in order and takes away a little of the emotion so that, in real life, I can *try* to act rationally. Listen to the vets, sometimes their advice is hard to take, but they, and the rest of us, are rooting for you.
I will second the advice on looking after your kids. They have lost their mum (for now), don't let them think they've lost you too. Some of the best times I've had over the last year is doing things with the kids I wouldn't normally do - take them away for the weekend (invite W if you like, but don't expect her to say yes), take them on long walks in the country side, just do things, anything with them.
Hi Crofton
I'm going to play a little bit of devil's advocate here, so forgive me.
There are people on here far more experienced on here than me who I am sure are better placed to advise. You must be in a very difficult place right now but what concerns me is that at least twice you mention 'physicality' and aggression in what seems to be a very volatile relationship. This seems to be a problem for both of you.
You also have young children in the home.
One thing that is for sure is that this is not going to be an easy ride whatever happens and there will be many situations where you both feel at the end of your tether. Can either of you guarantee then when your buttons are being pressed, this won't become physical again? That cannot be allowed to happen around the children.
I know that in many situations, the general advice is to not move out, but I wonder if in your situation you may stand a better chance of DBing if you weren't under the same roof?
Just food for thought really.
I do regret moving out. I thought it was the right thing to do to give her space. But I know it was the wrong choice now as things have not got any better. I am moving back in the hope that she will see changes in me and I also want to be near the children.
To answer your question Yorkie I will never be physical with her every again and I don't know if she will either. My plan is just to be a great dad for the kids and not get involved in any arguments with her at all. Maybe easier said then done but really only chance I have of trying to salvage this is just to hope that she sees the difference but I am aware it maybe too late.
I am moving back in the hope that she will see changes in me
No. If ANYTHING you do related to DB is for her, it will backfire. You are moving back in because YOU are the one who hopes to save the M and the marital home. You are a decisive leader who stands up for what is right. If not for you, then for your children. You are a man of integrity and honor who shows his children the way to face adversity with strength.
She wants to leave? Fine. Open the cage door and set her free. But you CANNOT "nice" her back. Drop your expectations. The way to look at it now is to identify what would make things worse, and then avoid doing that.
And I'm sorry to have to be one of the first people to mention this, but it applies to almost everyone here: consider the strong possibility that there is an outside party involved. If that is something you can't handle, decide now how you want to proceed.
Good advice here. Try to work towards what people are suggesting. It doesn't happen overnight, but little by little it will help.
No. If ANYTHING you do related to DB is for her, it will backfire. You are moving back in because YOU are the one who hopes to save the M and the marital home. You are a decisive leader who stands up for what is right. If not for you, then for your children. You are a man of integrity and honor who shows his children the way to face adversity with strength.
She wants to leave? Fine. Open the cage door and set her free. But you CANNOT "nice" her back. Drop your expectations. The way to look at it now is to identify what would make things worse, and then avoid doing that.
Burned is wise.
The way to also look at it now is to identify what IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, and then do that. Do not worry about her reactions. You are strong and can handle it.
Lead your family through this.
I am moving back in the hope that she will see changes in me
No. If ANYTHING you do related to DB is for her, it will backfire. You are moving back in because YOU are the one who hopes to save the M and the marital home. You are a decisive leader who stands up for what is right. If not for you, then for your children. You are a man of integrity and honor who shows his children the way to face adversity with strength.
She wants to leave? Fine. Open the cage door and set her free. But you CANNOT "nice" her back. Drop your expectations. The way to look at it now is to identify what would make things worse, and then avoid doing that.
And I'm sorry to have to be one of the first people to mention this, but it applies to almost everyone here: consider the strong possibility that there is an outside party involved. If that is something you can't handle, decide now how you want to proceed.
Thanks burned. This is great advice and you are right of course, I will be doing it for me and the kids. Trying to save marriage but as you say I can't force her. Don't think there is another party involved but wouldn't rule it out either as she is very deceitful. But not something I am worrying about.
Don't think there is another party involved but wouldn't rule it out either as she is very deceitful. But not something I am worrying about.
It's good that you're not worrying about it because it shouldn't change anything in terms of what you need to do.
But do read Sandi's threads about what we call the Wayward Wife just in case.
Don't think there is another party involved but wouldn't rule it out either as she is very deceitful.
Almost always is. Doesn't matter. Just focus on your personal growth right now.
Read this thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=47467&Number=2057224#Post2057224and this thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=44680&Number=1859179#Post1859179Best advise I got was to stay out of wife’s bubble and completely immerse into Kids bubble. Put on your supper dad cape.
So today I am moving back in against her wishes. Had these 4 text messages last night -
"All your stuff and bedside table has been moved to spare room. Do not enter my bedroom"
"I am asking you one last time not to come back. You rented for 2 months, stayed 2 weeks only! I really can't live with you under same roof. I can't have you here!"
"Last 2.5 weeks you made me very ill, you suffocated and drained me. Even thinking of being in same house with you gives me palpitations!"
"Even your own daughter is not happy with you moving back!"
The last comment is untrue, she has basically put this into her head, she is 8 years old.
I have not responded at all, is this the right approach or not? Reading the rules of DB I shouldn't?
Hi crofton,
Sorry you're here. I just wanted to let you know I moved out on BD because I thought it was best for W and the kids. I later found out she was in an EA and that was why she manipulated the situation to get me to move out. I took a 6 month lease and eventually moved back in against her wishes.
When i moved out it justfied the fantasy in her head, and allowed her to tell people I had left her which was completely untrue. Living separately has it's advantages, for example it gives her time and space and allows her to miss you, but if you move it should be done for the right reasons for you not her.
Please don't make the mistake I did and move out for her. She has no right to insist you leave the family home or guilt you into it. Through the DB skills (detaching) I have learnt here I can now live in the family home without arguing or rising to anything, regardless of what my W says or does. If you can learn to do this then there is no reason for you to leave.
Just a note on her "seeing your changes", the chances are even if your changes are real, permenant and shown perfectly it will still take a long long time for her to be open to beliveing them. In my case I started implementing real changes 2 months after BD but she didn't start to properly believe them till 7-8 months after BD. Just want to prepare you for how long this really might take, patience is key.
Thanks Lusa. I am confident I can live there without issues. Moving back is the really the right choice as the 2 1/2 weeks away has not achieved anything, it never made her miss me at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
I wouldn't respond to the texts, you have told her you're intentions so just follow through now and do it. When I made this decision after 7 months out I received the following great advice from Sandi
If you intend to march back into the house, claim the MBR, and expect her to be transparent.......I think you will be faced with great opposition. With that said, I want you to understand that I am not opposed to the idea of a man going back to his house and rightfully claiming what is his. I am just saying that if his WW is not ready for him to return, he is in for a battle of wills.
Based on the stories I can recall where the H reclaimed his position in the home, the WW did not go down without a fight. You see, when the H agrees to leave the home at his WW's request, I believe she thinks that is the biggest step in her plan to gain freedom (getting the H out of the home). It is especially nice for her when the H is so willing to run her errands, do odd jobs around the house, chauffeur the kids, and then go back to his designated place at the end of the day. That is a lot of yummy cake for a WW! She sees herself holding the reigns of power in this relationship. If she decides to D, she already has the H out of the house, so the next step is just signing paperwork. If her affair doesn't gain speed, then she can keep the H at arms length, and still get served cake. She has the benefits from being legally M, and gets the affair partner on the side. So, if the H moves back home without her agreement, it really upsets her playhouse.
If the H tries to reclaim the MBR, the W may physically fight him, or she may call the police. We hear more & more of this type of WW reaction when the H tries to force his way back into the MBR, or force her to leave it. So, think carefully about the hill you want to die on.
Know the law. If you have a lawyer, check to make sure of your rights before you try to physically move your things into the house. There are some crazy laws, so don't assume you can do whatever you want, just b/c your name is on the mortgage. You don't want to be arrested for trying to enter your own house.
So, every man has to decide what is best for him. If he goes back to the house, he should not be navieve and expect his WW to be happy about it. I don't suggest he move his things back into the house without telling her, b/c that pretty much begs for war to break out. Also, if he has to sleep in a separate bedroom, he needs to weigh those options and determine if he is gaining or losing ground by moving back. I'm just saying he needs to think before leaping.
Yes I have not responded to her texts. She has sent further ones today. I did reply to one only and that was one to say I don't need to pick my daughter up from school now, it was agreed previously that I would. So I just said OK to acknowledge that one. For all the begging pleading for me not to go back texts I have just ignored them.
I won't be trying to reclaim the MBR, I will live in the spare room and won't enter the MBR as she requested.
Now I have a text to say she will be calling the police if I try to move back in.
I think you should get legal advice, you could probably get a free walk-in initial consultation with a solicitor straight away, to know where you stand and to give you peace of mind.
In some states, moving out constitutes "abandonment", which has significant repercussions in divorce. So you should move back in. I don't know how that goes in the UK, but I think the advice to consult a lawyer, especially in light of her threat to call the police, is pretty good.
Maybe you could respond to one of her texts by saying "This is my home, too. If you can't live with me, maybe you should consider moving out. I don't want this divorce, but I can't stop you. But your decision to divorce has consequences, and moving out may be one of them."
You've received a lot of good advice so far. Remember, "believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see."
Have you seen your children since you've moved out? You need to.
Yes I have not responded to her texts. She has sent further ones today. I did reply to one only and that was one to say I don't need to pick my daughter up from school now, it was agreed previously that I would. So I just said OK to acknowledge that one. For all the begging pleading for me not to go back texts I have just ignored them.
I won't be trying to reclaim the MBR, I will live in the spare room and won't enter the MBR as she requested.
Did you really say it like this? Saying it was "your daughter". Is your W the mother of this child? If so, saying "my daughter" comes across passive aggressive. My dad would always say stuff like this and it makes me cringe.
Well that didn't go as planned. Got to the house at lunch time and couldn't get in as she had left keys in front and back door, I presume but maybe she changed the locks.
Anyway, I called the police but they said it's a civil matter and to talk to my solicitor. Also she already was one step ahead and called them to say she was scared to let me in. Solicitor was useless and said you have rights but you may need to get a court order and they are expensive and not guaranteed. So giving that a miss.
So, next step I will go back tomorrow when she is at work as this is a matter of principle now. I will also pull the same stunt as her about being scared.
Also today found she blocked my calls to my son's phone and also keeps my daughters phone switched off permanently. Find this totally disgusting behaviour and she is also slagging me off to them continually.
Good thing about today I finally woke up and realised she is evil and I want out of this marriage ASAP.
So, next step I will go back tomorrow when she is at work as this is a matter of principle now. I will also pull the same stunt as her about being scared.
Slow down. You do not want to get arrested. Do not claim you are scared.
Stay away from the house. Do not escalate.
Who owns the house? You? Her? Joint? Renting? IF Renting, who is paying the rent? Who name is on the paperwork?
Are you paying rent some-place else?
You need real legal advise. Get a free consult set-up tomorrow.
This happened on the 30th September.
....she caused arguments.... took it out on me...
Please clarify this so we understand exactly how she took it out on you...Verbaly/physically?
Stupidly I grabbed her in some stupid desperate attempt to sort the problem out.
This is why she is scared of you. Hopefully you learned from this.
House is jointly owned. Why would I get arrested?
This happened on the 30th September.
....she caused arguments.... took it out on me...
Please clarify this so we understand exactly how she took it out on you...Verbaly/physically?
Stupidly I grabbed her in some stupid desperate attempt to sort the problem out.
This is why she is scared of you. Hopefully you learned from this.
She was physically and verbally abusive for years. Yes I did learn from this. However, she called police and they released me without charge.
That helps.
Why would I get arrested?
To keep you two from hurting each other.
She was physically ..abusive for years
What about on the 30th? Did she do any thing physically to you? Or did you escalate it from a verbal argument to physically trying to control her?
There has been violence in the marriage. It doesn't really matter which of you files for a non-molestation order or an occupation order, there would be a court injunction in place and it would potentially have an arrest order attached to it. Even though Police NFAd it, there is still evidence there. An occupation order would give her (or you) the right to keep the other away from the property.
Is this really the route to go down? The chances of your kids not getting embroiled in this are next to non existent. Are they going to be okay with seeing Mum or Dad removed by the Police? It isn't an idle threat; she's called before.
Abandonment is not an issue in any divorce proceeding; it simply helps to show an irretrievably broken down marriage (the only grounds for divorce in the UK)
If you want an alternative opinion; forcing yourself back into the marital home against the other persons wishes on a background of domestic violence smacks of bullying and harassment. If I were the W it certainly wouldn't make me start to change my mind, but confirm everything I think I know about you and the marriage already.
Let the dust settle; emotions are running too high. Start DBing like mad and show her the changes are permanent.
I thought the only way she would see me change is if I am at the house. Separations very seldom work as how can she see any changes in me when I won't have any contact. So basically this is the end.
I wasn't keen on H moving out either (7 months ago) for the same reasons as you. How could we work on our M if we weren't living together, it will make it harder for him to come back etc etc.
What I didn't realise, or refused to realise was that everything about me made him angry and just how toxic our home environment had become. The relationship wasn't violent, we never shouted or raised our voices. But we avoided each other. The silence (even to our young children) spoke volumes. They saw the angry looks he gave me. They say the sadness in my eyes. They would have seen him recoil at my touch, they would have noticed there were no more kisses as he dropped me off in the morning, no hugs when he came home at night.
And this is a relationship where there was no violence. I can only think the impact where violence exists.
Do what you feel is right. However, consider your children and the memories they will take with them as they move into adulthood.
There are advantages in having your own space. They cannot blame you for everything that goes wrong (you are not there to blame). If the garbage is not taken out, it is because they didn't do it. If something goes missing, it is not because you moved it. You are no longer the fall guy.
Also, make the changes for you. Start with controlling your emotions. Meditation works for me. If she notices or not should be secondary to your becoming a better man and and a better father.
... sorry if that came across preachy.
I wasn't keen on H moving out either (7 months ago) for the same reasons as you. How could we work on our M if we weren't living together, it will make it harder for him to come back etc etc.
What I didn't realise, or refused to realise was that everything about me made him angry and just how toxic our home environment had become. The relationship wasn't violent, we never shouted or raised our voices. But we avoided each other. The silence (even to our young children) spoke volumes. They saw the angry looks he gave me. They say the sadness in my eyes. They would have seen him recoil at my touch, they would have noticed there were no more kisses as he dropped me off in the morning, no hugs when he came home at night.
And this is a relationship where there was no violence. I can only think the impact where violence exists.
Do what you feel is right. However, consider your children and the memories they will take with them as they move into adulthood.
There are advantages in having your own space. They cannot blame you for everything that goes wrong (you are not there to blame). If the garbage is not taken out, it is because they didn't do it. If something goes missing, it is not because you moved it. You are no longer the fall guy.
Also, make the changes for you. Start with controlling your emotions. Meditation works for me. If she notices or not should be secondary to your becoming a better man and and a better father.
... sorry if that came across preachy.
Not preachy at all. I appreciate the advice. I have decided to not move back as I don't see the point. Think my marriage is finished and I am expecting that now. As you say just need to concentrate on myself moving forward.
One good thing to come out of this is I am going to try and repair my relationship with my mother. She hasn't spoken to me or my grandkids in 7 years but I am taking them there at the weekend. It will be against my wife's wishes but it's was down to her in the first place that my mother stopped talking to me. So hopefully this will be a positive step although she will be furious when kids tell her no doubt.
Crofton
Why wouldn't there be contact. You have young children so there would be contact.
Forgive me my Northern bluntness but you have agreed that the marriage was wrong for years. You changed for 2 months and then got into an argument and grabbed her and then moved out. You say it got worse. Worse how? She'd already told you she wanted a divorce. It looked like you did exactly what she would have predicted you would do and revert to previous behaviour when she pushed your buttons. In her eyes therefore you haven't changed.
DB telephone consultant said to me that there were 2 things that my H could be sure of: 1. That they knew absolutely everything about me 2. that they thought I couldn't change. I think this applies to you as well.
If it has been problematic for years then 2 months is not long enough to convince her that you have changed. She may never be convinced. If as you say, you have said hurtful things to each other in the past, it would take me longer than 2 months to acknowledge that it wasn't going to happen again. I would just think you were doing it as a means to an end and not because it was a genuine change.
She needs to see that you are going to genuinely respect her and that may mean it is returned to you.
You don't need to be in the house to change because the changes are for you. She will notice. Do a 180 and do the opposite of what she expects you to do (fight and argue presumably) and she may sit up and take notice.
Why should this be the end? The process of trying to change and create a new marriage hasn't really begun yet.
We can all sense how high your emotions are running, because every one of us can relate to it. She's telling you to give her space but take that space and time for YOU. I promise you it does help.
One of the things that was pointed out early to me was "Is what you're doing making it easier or harder for her to reconcile?" You should be asking yourself this constantly. (Hint: "forcing" your way back in, with a history of physical intimidation, is a red flag.) One of, if not THE biggest thing for women is to feel safe and secure in the home. Right now she doesn't, and anything you do to confirm that feeling of being unsafe is going to drive her farther away.
You are worried about her not seeing the changes if you are separated. You have kids, you will interact. She WILL see the changes. It might take time.
Go see a lawyer.
Good for you for reestablishing a relationship with your mother.
I thought the only way she would see me change is if I am at the house.
She will see you at every exchange of the children.
Separations very seldom work
Separation DOES work.
So basically this is the end.
This is just the beginning of a long process.
You have been given a gift. You do not see it. Some of us here see it.
You have a choice to accept this gift, or smash it.
Do you know what this gift is?
Separation DOES work.
...
Do you know what this gift is?
R2C, can you elaborate please? Either here or on my thread...
I thought the only way she would see me change is if I am at the house. Separations very seldom work as how can she see any changes in me when I won't have any contact. So basically this is the end.
These should be posed as questions here, not statements. Because you are in fact incorrect. We've had people here that lived in other states and even other countries and still showed their spouse changes. Things you do to change yourself positively WILL get back to your spouse through friends, family and social media. The less you try to show them your changes the more likely they are to notice them.
Regarding separations, in-house separations where the couple continues to live together rarely lead to reconciling. Usually it just makes things continue to deteriorate. It is extremely difficult to give the WAS the time and space they want and need when you are still under the same roof. The resentment just continues to grow. About the best you can hope for is a sexless marriage of convenience if living together. However, out-of-house separation gives the WAS the time and space they need. It also helps them realize that S and D is not going to give them the Utopian life they hope for. They get out there and meet people and maybe date and find out there are a lot of crap people in the world. It also allows the LBS to clear their mind of the WAS and go about the business of rebuilding themselves. There are no guarantees, but more recons have come after separation and even divorce than from in-house separations.
Asked if I could stay at the house Wednesday night as taking my boy to football and will get back late. Her response
"Absolutely not. It will be done by 9:30, no way you will be in Weston at midnight. And anyway you can have an early night the following day, it's not like you have to juggle work and kids all week"
Do I respond? My feeling is just to leave it? Sorry new to this DBing. Or do I just say "ok fine"?
Always communicate about the children. Calmly. Politely.
Your response:
H:"W, how early Thursday? what time are you thinking?"
Asked if I could stay at the house Wednesday night
Stop asking. Get legal advise ASAP. let us know what you find out. Make sure you ask what the law is verses his opinion. Clarify this with him.
it's not like you have to juggle work and kids all week"
Do not get BAITED by these. Do not react to these. These are things to just listen to. These are clues to you.
To help me understand,
Are you working?
Are you parenting? is it 50/50?
Asked if I could stay at the house Wednesday night
Stop asking. Get legal advise ASAP. let us know what you find out. Make sure you ask what the law is verses his opinion. Clarify this with him.
it's not like you have to juggle work and kids all week"
Do not get BAITED by these. Do not react to these. These are things to just listen to. These are clues to you.
To help me understand,
Are you working?
Are you parenting? is it 50/50?
No I am staying in a shared house currently so not 50/50. Just seeing kids twice a week. Yes I am working full time.
No I am staying in a shared house currently so not 50/50. Just seeing kids twice a week. Yes I am working full time.
OK thanks.
it's not like you have to juggle work and kids all week
I assume she works based off her statement.
I translate this to "H, please help parent our kids more. I need a break. Could you do this for me?"
So the question is, do you want 50/50 parenting responsibilities if you end up divorced?
I will assume you say yes. Correct me if my assumption is wrong.
DBing is walking two (or more) paths at the same time. Preparing for divorce and repairing the relationship.
One part of preparing for D is getting yourself into a 50/50 parenting arrangement. This also helps in repairing the R.
As far as repairing the relationship, one of the most important things RIGHT NOW is to change the way you interact. You change, FORCES her to change on how she responds.
Most of the things that work are counter intuitive.
1) Setting the spouse free
2) letting go of the outcome
3) Agreeing with them
Can your wife argue with you if you say this to her:
H:"I agree. This is not working for me either. "
I would like joint custody but for this to work we would have to live near each other. If we do divorce she will stay where she is (in the country) but I will be moving back to the city. So about 10 miles apart but doesn't make the co-parenting work. For me living where we were did not make me happy, I lived there as she wanted too. So I am torn really, yes I want 50/50 with kids but I also need to be happy with location.
Should I be asking her if she needs me to have children more?
I would like joint custody but for this to work we would have to live near each other. If we do divorce she will stay where she is (in the country) but I will be moving back to the city. So about 10 miles apart but doesn't make the co-parenting work.
I drive 18 miles to work in the city from a smaller town. My Buddy is 20 miles away from his X, and possibly farther from school and kid activities. He is making it work. 10 miles is close. There are solutions. We can worry about that later.
For me living where we were did not make me happy, I lived there as she wanted too.
Always trade off’s.
Should I be asking her if she needs me to have children more?
I don't think you should be ASKING. I think you should OFFER. If she refuses then you can start setting some boundaries.
Here is one option:
H"W, I plan on taking the kids to the zoo (or lunch, or fishing, or whatever) on Sat from 9 to 5. If this does not work for you, let me know what time does."
If she shows a pattern of trying to limit access to your kids, then you can deal with that.
Well joint custody is not an option, she flat out refused and said they will live with her full time.
What do you mean “not an option”? Just because it’s something she wants?! What do you want? What are you willing to fight for? What does your LAWYER say? Next, she may say that she wants 100% of your assets and tell you anything less wasn’t an option - doesn’t make it true.
yeah, it doesn't matter that she flat out refused. What does the law say? Maybe you should read about Nice Guy Syndrome. You can't nice her back. You have a say in how this goes. She will not respect someone with a noodle for a backbone. This isn't to say you should refuse everything, in a nasty way. Be polite, but stand up for your rights, and what you want.
"You want this divorce, not me, but there's nothing I can do to stop you. I think we can make this marriage work. Divorcing has consequences, and one of them is that we share 50/50 custody of the kids."
Right now, she's living this fantasy where everything goes her way. Part of your job is to help her realize she can't have her cake and eat it too.
Yes thanks good advice. I think I will go for 50/50 custody, spent today with them and made me realise more than ever. Positive thing today took both kids to see my mother, none of us had seen her for 7 years. All three were so happy. It made my day.
That sounds like an awesome day. GALg with kids is just as important as GAlg on your own. Foster your relationship with them, protect them as much as you can from the damage D will cause. They will remember that you were there for them when they are older.
Wow Crofton, just read your story and I am so sorry for your pain. Stay strong and know things have to get better.
Yes my case is totally hopeless I am afraid. Wife has bought two books on divorce for kids to read, has taken all pictures down of me and cannot be civil at all to me in any way unless it's about the kids. The biggest shock to me is how much hatred and bitterness she has towards me. It was her who asked for the divorce not me. Her attitude does make it easier for me to detach though.
Hatred and bitterness shouldn't be a surprise. People rarely file for D without those two emotions. In my mind, this is actually good news. If she was showing indifference, that would be bad, but she still cares enough about you to put the effort into hatred and bitterness.
Good for you for taking the kids to Grandma.
Hatred and bitterness shouldn't be a surprise. People rarely file for D without those two emotions. In my mind, this is actually good news. If she was showing indifference, that would be bad, but she still cares enough about you to put the effort into hatred and bitterness.
Good for you for taking the kids to Grandma.
Hadn't considered that, maybe there is hope then but I have low expectations. Just detaching myself now. We are also waiting for a date for my 8 year old to have heart surgery, I just hope she gets rid of all anger before then as her operation is more important than anything else.
Yes my case is totally hopeless I am afraid.
Thats on you. I believe there is always hope.
How is your GAL going?
Yes, it's going fine thanks Amoafwl. I am going to the gym most nights and seeing friends so am managing to keep busy. Still hard though at times. Focusing on the positive things though i.e. listening more to the children and helping them build a relationship again with their grandma.
Thanks that's a big help.
W is seeing her L today I believe. So not sure what will come out of this, still not seen any D papers after 3 weeks.
I am not surprised that you haven't seen any papers yet. They say a lot of things but there is rarely any action. It is like they wait for us to react to something [censored] they've done and so that we escalate to the next step. To validate their skewed perception of us so that they can feel better for the damage they've caused. Don't buy into the drama. All the major milestones in our separation were precipitated by me reacting.
Just do what you've been doing. Be calm. Focus on you and the children.
That being said, if the papers do come through then make sure you get legal advice before proceeding. In the UK you have to be separated 2 years before you can have a no fault divorce. Anything before 2 years then one partner files on grounds of the others unreasonable behavior (this could be as mundane as never emptying the dishwasher to providing evidence of adultery). By agreeing to the D, the other accepts that they have been unreasonable. Yes, it's only a piece of paper, and yes, it doesn't impact financial settlement, child care etc, but it's the principle. Take responsibility for the faults that are yours, but do not allow her to railroad you into agreeing into something that is untrue because your emotions are all over the place. It is now that you need to led by your head and not your heart.
Also, make clear that it is not what you want without begging or pleading. "I will get my solicitor to look at this and get back to you. I want to make clear that this is not what I want."
Take care.
if papers do come. Do not read them immediately. Get some good sleep. read them the next day.
So I have have been paying for my wife's lease on her car for last 3 1/2 years, now we have S I said I am no longer willing to pay the £315 for the next 6 months which is when the car goes back as this works out around £2000. So I have given her 10 days to sort a car out and I will take this and sell my own car.
So what does she do. Well tonight I was supposed to take my son to football as arranged, he tells me he can't go now . as he wants to look for a car with his mum,
Disgusted by this as quite clearly a lie, he is being forced her her and she is trying to blackmail me into not taking the car.
Decided not to even talk to her about it as it will only become an argument. But am I being unreasonable for taking the car back?
I don't think it's unreasonable, BUT it does seem heavy handed. The adult equivalent of not getting your way so you take your ball and go home. It seems a bit controlling and dictatorial as well. While it's well within your rights, is it more or less likely to make her want to reconcile?
I"m not saying you should continue to pay for her lease, but maybe the conversation could have gone like:
You: "Now that we're separated, I don't think it's fair that I keep making lease payments on a car that I'm never going to use. What do you think about that?"
Her: "Hmmmm. I see what you mean."
You: "Why don't I take the car and continue to make the payments, and that way you can buy something that works for you."
Her: "That sounds reasonable."
Honestly, it probably wouldn't work like that. Her initial response would probably be more like "F%$K YOU!", but after she had time to think about it a little while, she'd probably come around, and appreciate that you were attempting to work with her, or at the very least, not resent the $hit out of you for being dictatorial and taking her car.
Yes you are probably right in hindsight it does seem heavy handed I guess.
About R, I really have given up on this now. It's been nearly 4 weeks now and there is more hatred from her now than at any point during those 4 weeks. I am trying to DB but it's hard when she won't remove me from the joint account and has cancelled the kids visits on me twice now and won't put the house on the market.
I am trying to DB but it's hard when she won't remove me from the joint account and has cancelled the kids visits on me twice now and won't put the house on the market.
Is there a legal order about visitation?
What about with regards to the money and the house?
What does your lawyer say?
So now I am served with a Non-Molestation order, unbelievable. So that's it, no chance of R.
W sends me a text shortly after asking about child maintenance.
What should I do?
Immediately - Nothing. Monday - speak to a Lawyer
W is pure evil. Was supposed to have kids today but had a text from eldest child last night saying he doesn't want to see me today and she has blocked both their phones from me. So I can't speak to them at all.
Take the emotion out (or at least try). Head not heart.
I can't remember if you had engaged an a lawyer yet. If not, do it on Monday as Yorkie said.
Keep the text and evidence that you've been blocked from the children phones. Screen shot everything. Your kids are too young to have blocked you themselves so it is most certainly your W doing it.
If eldest child said he doesn't want to see you then that is something you need to talk to W about and put together a plan. Your child is hurting. You need to work together not against each other to ease their pain. I know it's tough. There is fury on both sides. Put that aside, hopefully your W will follow your lead. One thing that worked for a friend was even when her D said she didn't want to go see her dad, even when she clung to her legs, she forced herself to her go anyway. But, she was willing to put her ego aside for her daughter. I doubt that would work in your case, but that's when the lawyers come into play. When you have the kids, make it so damn much fun that they will never want to leave your side. Also, don't bad mouth your wife in front of them.
Others here would disagree, but when it comes to the kids I will break the NC rule. Children are not pawns.
If you do respond, she will most likely keep the texts as evidence so make sure you choose your words carefully.
"W - I am unable to contact the children's phones. This may have been by accident. Can you check their phones and unblock me. I am committed to working with you in fostering a positive coparenting relationship and ensuring that this difficult period is as painless for them as possible. Can you let me today when its done."
That way there is no blame, you've made a perfectly reasonable request, and you show that the focus is not on the R but on the children.
If no response, then you take the text with you to your atty on monday as evidence she is keeping the children away from you.
Yes have sent the text. Two things have happened to me lately. I realise I do not want R anymore. Her actions have really turned me against that. But worse still I realise this is not going to quick and easy but a hard and a long process and this is going to hurt the children.
Let emotions flow C. Of course it’s a marathon then you must use that time wisely. Detach, GAL and keep working on yourself. Set some boundaries regarding your children; get some lawyer advice about that as Yorkie and FS said.
Be there for your children.
Yes - it will be a hard and long process. I am not there yet, but I fear that the day will come.
It will be less painful for the kids if at least one of you remains calm. If it comes to it as long, and as the terms are fair, then agree the terms and just get it over and done with. You may R in the future (if you want to) but if she is set on D now, then you have to just get through it.
Do not quibble over stupid things. I have known couples quibble over who pays off the last $100 on a credit card. If it is immaterial - let it go. I don't mean let her walk all over you. But be fair. The things to remember are (and this is applicable to multiple situations): am I doing X because what she is asking is fundamentally unreasonable, am I doing X out of spite; is X in the best interest of the children and how does doing X help me detach.
(BTW - I ask myself those four questions all the time, and I still sometimes do the wrong thing)
You will gain some self-respect and your kids will be better for it in the long run. Eventually your W will respect you too.
What is a Non-molestation order? Does that prevent you from seeing your kids? If not, you need to get an attorney so you get 50/50 custody. This is not unreasonable. Also, maybe it has the side benefit of helping W realize D is not going to be this fantasy she envisions where she gets everything she wants. I don't know if you have caved to her demands in the past in an attempt to make her happy, but, if so, this is also a great opportunity to do a 180.
A bit of caution about declarations that you are against R now. This is a long process, and you have just begun. You will experience ups and downs, you will pine for her, you will rage at her, you will be desperate to D, you will be desperate to R. Making declarations like that may end up hurting you in the long run. As AS said to me, wait until you have felt this way consistently for a few months before acting on it.
FlySolo's offering some great advice.
A non-molestation order means I cannot threaten her or the kids. They are easy to obtain, it doesn't even have a court hearing so I cannot challenge it. Don't have a problem with this as such.
She has also applied for a occupation order which means I am not allowed within 100 metres of the house. This is what I have an issue with, I am wondering if this is issued whether it will go against me in any custody / visitation rights.
The hearing for that is 9th November. She continues to block all contact with kids on say so of her solicitor.
I don't know much about custody arrangements where you are, but I cannot see how having a non-molestation order and an occupation order would do you any favors. W is trying to build up evidence that you are a bad father.
Speak to a lawyer.
I would not engage in any way right now.
Emotions will be running high and you will most certainly say things that you will regret ... and again, doing so will not do you any favors later.
Read this book ASAP:
Book- Divorce PosionOther helpful books:
My book list
I'm not sure I agree entirely with FlySolo. I think you should engage her in order to reestablish contact with the kids. Otherwise you leave yourself open to accusations of abandonment. Anytime you text, call, email to try to talk to your kids, write it down in a notebook which can be used later in court to show that you are actually trying, but she is actively blocking you. That will also turn the tables on her, and make a judge look very unfavorably upon her actions. But just like he said, you have to be EXTREMELY CAREFUL about what you say and how you say it. If you can have a witness, even better.
Definitively see a lawyer.
Ready2Change - thanks for the tip regarding the book. I am reading this now and it is very interesting.
So have been waiting for a date for my daughter's operation, she is having open heart surgery. A massive op where she needs 2 weeks in intensive care and then 4 weeks recovery. The plan was always for me to spend a lot of the recovery time with her as I can work from home in my job. This is out of the window now as my W is going for the Occupation Order where I am not allowed within 100 metres of the house. This to me is totally wrong especially with her op, it shows she has no regard for our children.
Today I got a date for the op, I had spoken to the department and explained the sich with me and W. So the secretary called me this morning to confirm the date, she also said she had told my W just before calling me. My W does not know they have told me and I have told them not to.
So it's now 3 hours later and nothing from the W to tell me when the date is. I won't be saying anything as I want to see when she chooses to tell me or if at all. To me this is a massive deal, I think it is utterly disgraceful to behave this way. I really am beginning to lose any respect for her.
No contact with kids still, been 10 days now. Seeing Lawyer on Friday.
What do others think?
I think this is too big a deal for you to basically play games like "I won't be saying anything as I want to see when she chooses to tell me...." If she won't talk to you about it and work with you on this, you need to get the attorney involved ASAP. Your daughter needs you. You can't let your W keep you away from caring for D.
Crofton
I am glad you have booked an appointment with an attorney. I would not wait until Friday - I would keep calling around until I had one who could see me sooner. Most of them offer the first 30 minute free. You need to know where you stand legally.
My suggestion to not engage was based on your emotions probably being all over the place and the likelihood of things being said that you will later regret. You sound in a better place now - though I would keep correspondence to text - that way you can draft a response, leave it for a bit, and then re-read it to make sure that you have not said anything that could be misconstrued (or used against you later). I would avoid phone conversations.
My 2cents regarding your daughter.
Break the NC. I would send a simple non accusatory text "Just wondering if you have a date yet for the operation?". If she doesn't come back with anything, resend the text the next day until she does. If she comes back, and the text is full of hate, ignore the hate. This is not about you, it is not about your W. "Ok. But do you have a date for the operation?". If/when she gives you the date simply say "Thank you" and maybe suggest (if you want to) that you would like to be there.
She is keeping you away from your children. Keep calm. Ignore anything and everything that is said that isn't directly about the welfare of your children.
If it were me I would ignore any verbal communication (phone or otherwise). I would not be able to stop myself from rising to the bait, or telling one or two home truths of my own and now is not the time for hot headed conversations.
Good luck.
W did tell text me some 8 hours later to say 'Just so you know the Op date is 16th November' and that was it.
Have now emailed her offering to come and stay with my S for 2 weeks when W is in hospital with D. Also offered to stay with D for 4 weeks whilst she recovers so W can go to work and not have all the burden. Also said I don't think it's right for S to stay with friends during this time as he needs his father and D also needs me.
Her response was a friend is coming to stay for 2 weeks with S and she doesn't want me to come and help with her recovery, Also get from her kids don't want to see me, which is not right. It's her doing this.
Have left it and will discuss with L on Friday.
Got to the point now where really have lost all respect for W. Keep thinking how did I marry such a nasty vile person. This is helping me detach though so that's good. Just all about the kids now for me as can't even contemplate a R anymore.
Firstly, do you know the friend. You have a right to know who is looking after your children.
IMHO you are better off without her whilst she goes through the crazies. Don't get pulled into her s**t. Keep yourself focused. The goal right now is to demonstrate that you are the stable parent. This means not allowing yourself to get baited, not throwing [censored] back and not being ruled by your emotions.
. Just all about the kids now
Good. Remember this when she is throwing all sorts of vitriol at you and you need to think straight.
Be the rock/lighthouse for your D's.
Asked who is looking after S for two weeks. So her friend is moving in, a friend who is mentally unstable (her words not mine). So definitely will be talking to L about this.
Going to collect the car tonight, as she decided to buy another one even though I still said she could keep it. Everything she does at the moment doesn't make sense. Seems it's all about proving she can be independent. But I guess all W do this when they D?
Have now emailed her offering to come and stay with my S for 2 weeks when W is in hospital with D. Also offered to stay with D for 4 weeks whilst she recovers so W can go to work and not have all the burden.
To me, this feels very weak/passive. I dont know what you said to her, but it sounds like you are begging for the scraps of time that she is willing to give you. Could you phrase this with something like "I would like to be with D XXXXX." or "I can plan to have S while D is in the hospital."
I just feel like saying something "Would you like me to watch S for the 2 weeks?" puts HER in control. I think it's a better approach to say what you want than "offering to help" - makes it seem like it's about doing a favor for her rather than you getting your time with the kid(s).
Im also wondering about the offer to "come stay with S"....it seems clear she doesnt want you in the house. I wonder if there was a way that S could have come to you.
And yes....talk to a lawyer ASAP
Seems it's all about proving she can be independent. But I guess all W do this when they D?
From my observation, this does seem to be something that happens frequently.
[quote=Amoafwl
To me, this feels very weak/passive. I dont know what you said to her, but it sounds like you are begging for the scraps of time that she is willing to give you. Could you phrase this with something like "I would like to be with D XXXXX." or "I can plan to have S while D is in the hospital."
I just feel like saying something "Would you like me to watch S for the 2 weeks?" puts HER in control. I think it's a better approach to say what you want than "offering to help" - makes it seem like it's about doing a favor for her rather than you getting your time with the kid(s).
Im also wondering about the offer to "come stay with S"....it seems clear she doesnt want you in the house. I wonder if there was a way that S could have come to you.
And yes....talk to a lawyer ASAP
[/quote]
These were my thoughts as well. She is not the only arbiter of what happens with the kids. You have an equal say, if you choose to stand up for yourself. And allowing a "mentally unstable" friend to stay with your son is abdicating your responsibilities to him.
Seems it's all about proving she can be independent. But I guess all W do this when they D?
From my observation, this does seem to be something that happens frequently.
To me, this feels very weak/passive. I dont know what you said to her, but it sounds like you are begging for the scraps of time that she is willing to give you. Could you phrase this with something like "I would like to be with D XXXXX." or "I can plan to have S while D is in the hospital."
I just feel like saying something "Would you like me to watch S for the 2 weeks?" puts HER in control. I think it's a better approach to say what you want than "offering to help" - makes it seem like it's about doing a favor for her rather than you getting your time with the kid(s).
Im also wondering about the offer to "come stay with S"....it seems clear she doesnt want you in the house. I wonder if there was a way that S could have come to you.
And yes....talk to a lawyer ASAP
These were my thoughts as well. She is not the only arbiter of what happens with the kids. You have an equal say, if you choose to stand up for yourself. And allowing a "mentally unstable" friend to stay with your son is abdicating your responsibilities to him.
Well that is the lowest I have felt for a long time. I went to get the car and both kids would not talk to me at all, W has done such a job on them. It was hard to hold back the tears they were with me. Had to leave the house without even saying goodbye.
She lied to them saying I was forcing her to give car back, I said she could keep it. Won't give up on them but this is going to be a long way back, not even bothered about the D anymore.
Well that is the lowest I have felt for a long time. I went to get the car and both kids would not talk to me at all, W has done such a job on them. It was hard to hold back the tears they were with me. Had to leave the house without even saying goodbye.
She lied to them saying I was forcing her to give car back, I said she could keep it. Won't give up on them but this is going to be a long way back, not even bothered about the D anymore.
Im sorry that youre having a rough time. I was fortunate in that my XW has been good about access since our separation. I cant imagine the added layer of difficulty and pain a limited access would cause.
One caution I have is that you are putting this all on your W for "doing a job on them". Youve been out of the house for a month. What exactly have they seen of you in that time? As far as I know...only the time when you tried to "move back in". You are right that you need to repair the relationships with them. Just be cautious to put all of the fault and blame on your W. They have their own minds and their own perceptions - how are you behaving and how are you showing them that you are different from what your W might be saying?
Well that's the thing. I can't act as anything as she has stopped me talking to them. I saw them 10 days ago and everything was fine. Since then she has blocked their phones so I can't phone them.
She has been telling them I am taking their car, not paying for their music lessons etc.
Well that's the thing. I can't act as anything as she has stopped me talking to them. I saw them 10 days ago and everything was fine. Since then she has blocked their phones so I can't phone them.
She has been telling them I am taking their car, not paying for their music lessons etc.
So what are you doing NOW and in the meantime to rectify this situation? Im not trying to blame you; I think the things your W is doing are terrible, and I cant imagine how frustrated and helpless you must feel.
But I think you need to be acting as proactively as you can. All your kids can see right now is that you arent around. Assuming your W isnt going to change how she is behaving, what actions are you (and your lawyer) taking?
Seeing L tomorrow. Maybe I should have acted sooner but I was trying to avoid conflict but now I realise I need to protect myself.
Here are some hard questions......
Does your W's view have ANY validity? Have you ever been violent or threatened violence with the kids or her? Shown any proclivity to violence? Raised your voice?
Because if you have, you are blowing sunshine up our butts, and it's no wonder she's behaving the way she is. Think about it from her perspective.
Think about that. Think about that really hard. Don't just blow this question off with a snort and "of course not!"
She might be an evil bitch, but she might have a point, and if she does, that's where you should start showing her you've changed. Of course, you would actually have to change.....
Hi Croften
Just wanted to say good luck with the L today.
I agree with Croften. This journey, as hard as it may be, is also about taking a long hard look in the mirror and seeing our parts in the S. Until we can see ourselves for what we are and take responsibility for the our part, then we cannot forgive ourselves or our S. Yes, her actions are extreme, but try and understand what led to them. Understanding is part of forgiving. If you can't forgive then there is no hope of moving forward in your own growth.
And your D will turn into it will turn into a tit-for-tat. And that is no good for you or the children.
Good luck again.
Here are some hard questions......
Does your W's view have ANY validity? Have you ever been violent or threatened violence with the kids or her? Shown any proclivity to violence? Raised your voice?
Because if you have, you are blowing sunshine up our butts, and it's no wonder she's behaving the way she is. Think about it from her perspective.
Think about that. Think about that really hard. Don't just blow this question off with a snort and "of course not!"
She might be an evil bitch, but she might have a point, and if she does, that's where you should start showing her you've changed. Of course, you would actually have to change.....
Used violence against the kids absolutely not, never. She has actually hit or slapped my son on occasions though.
Used violence against her, no as I said I was arrested for grabbing her during an argument and released without charge. It was a over reaction on her part, she basically called the police 4 hours after the said incident. Raised my voice yes of course I have. Our relationship was quite toxic, she often assaulted me over the years and had a foul temper. But we have had our fair share of screaming matches but it was never a physically abusive relationship from my side.
So saw a L today. She phoned the divorce court and it appears they have not received any D petition from my W. She supposedly filed on the 2nd October. So not sure what to make of that, just more evidence of what a liar she is.
Anyway, L says to contest next's Friday hearing for NMA and occupation order and get a trial then once done I can look at going for joint custody.
As I am sure I don't want a R, should I petition for D myself now? Will it make any difference?
You are not in a hurry C. You don’t want R with W now, take your time. You really have more important things coming soon. Do you have any way to get your kids into IC? Some Lw advice?
Stay strong man.
As I am sure I don't want a R, should I petition for D myself now? Will it make any difference?
What do you mean "make any difference"??
Legally? - I think thats a question for your lawyer.
With your W? - If you have to ask, then I dont think you are ready to file.
For you? - I dont know....you tell us! Being divorced didnt really change anything for me.
I meant would it make any difference about speeding the process up. But I don't think it will.
So you answered the question. It’s more about improving the situation than speeding it...
Please start a new thread. Also, please link this thread to your new one and vice versa. Many thanks!