Previous thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=61654&Number=2816493#Post2816493GAL - I've been getting out more going for meals with a neighbour, visiting various public buildings, more IC, more hobbies. My routine looking after the kids is much better than when with W.
Met W yesterday at exchange with kids. I mentioned the pic that youngster had drawn of leaving to live with W and the caption 'worst day of my life'. W said that she only glanced at it and says it didn't say that. W is in total denial about the damage she's causing. It seems she rewrites anything that doesn't suit her agenda. W offered to come to collect the kids and take them to school. I declined. W said that she'd call in the morning. She did, I declined again.
IC is not GAL but it's good you're working on it.
You beating her up, in this case by throwing your son's picture in her face, is not going to shake her out of the denial. I can't help but think the kids are getting some of these vibes or ideas from you, and that you kinda like that your son did this to show her how wrong she is.
"Look W, you're hurting the kids! Come back!" That's the message I got. So you're trying to guilt her back and control the situation.
IC is not GAL but it's good you're working on it.
I can't help but think the kids are getting some of these vibes or ideas from you, and that you kinda like that your son did this to show her how wrong she is.
Not at all. W is telling them their home is to be sold, we are not a family, she is asking them to lie to me etc. which is causing them distress. I tell them not to worry. In the custody court case I asked for a course to be included in the agreement that W and I would have to do to lesson the impact upon the kids as much as possible because I'm very worried about how W is with them.
A couple of weeks ago I'd been upset that W had frozen the joint account. Now I feel more independant paying the bills by myself.
When we first separated W had accused me of looking for opportunities to talk to her. The kids are currently staying with me and W has offered to take them to school tomorrow. I declined. W replied with a text that didn't make any sense.
I will be seeing W at a school event tomorrow. Conversation seems pointless because she rarely says anything about herself or her feelings. There's nothing to validate. I'm just going to try to have a laugh.
W turned up at the school event and took youngest out of school and away with her - which is against the custody court order as it was during time when youngest is supposed to be with me.
Has anyone got back together with a worse WAW/WW ?
Has anyone got back together with a worse WAW/WW ?
She's violating your custody agreement, and this is what you are concerned about? But that speculation on the back burner and ensure she does not violate again.
Has anyone got back together with a worse WAW/WW ?
She's violating your custody agreement, and this is what you are concerned about? But that speculation on the back burner and ensure she does not violate again.
I agree with Ginger. What are you doing about the custody agreement??
And, I would say yes, people have gotten back with "worse" WW/WAWs.....but by following the program and the "rules" and so on. I dont get the sense that you are interested in learning much or changing your interactions with her based on the advice you are receiving.
I contacted my solicitor right away. That's all I could do. Statements are due today for the next custody court case so I had to be highly aware that W may have been trying to create a situation this morning to use against me.
I was just there to enjoy the event and W turned up later. W looked very shifty, tired, unhappy, nervous, and couldn't even look at me but it didn't bother me as I felt detached. I was polite, calm, happy and confident as usual. I felt a good inner strength. I was happy mixing with other people. W didn't. I noticed that W stepped towards me when I stepped away. I said to youngest that we were both very proud. W repeated that soon afterwards. W said to youngest to hold my hand. It all went wrong when youngest felt upset at not winning and W said to youngest 'do you want to go home?' then took youngest away early. It seems that W doesn't say 'no' to anything the kids want. W seems to think it's a popularity contest ahead of the next court case. In my book, that isn't good parenting but it might help her to win.
I am trying to learn and follow as much DB as I can and the books have now arrived so I'm reading them.
I disagree.
95% of your posts are about your soon to be ex wife.
If you look at peoples posts who have embraced this process i.e. Maika for example, they all post about themselves, the journey they are on, how they are feeling and what they are doing to cope etc..
No point sugar coating it and saying you are the same i.e. following DB because your not. It was only last week you were going to tell her this was all down to a parental death that made you depressed. No one that understands the process would consider doing that. There is a complete lack of understanding of the process and the impact of your actions- which is clearly reflected as your situation declines.
Its all about her, and what she said, what she did etc.. thats why you are not seeing on improvement in your situation and your W is still treating you with no respect and its not only affecting you but now your kids are being taken from school also.
While your soon to be ex wife is the main culprit, make no mistake the way you have handled this has contribited to what is happening. Of that i have no doubt what so ever.
Agree with Benito. You are not DBing at all. Whilst I am also waiting to read the book I did read the 37 rules of DB that are in this forum and you are not following the rules at all. You shouldn't be arguing with your W at all regardless of the situation.
I disagree.
95% of your posts are about your soon to be ex wife. If you look at peoples posts who have embraced this process i.e. Maika for example, they all post about themselves, the journey they are on, how they are feeling and what they are doing to cope etc..
I'm looking after the kids and running the house on my own, getting out doing new things on a regular basis, looking after myself, getting emotional help and support, doing more hobbies, starting a new course, standing up for myself legally. I had been feeling down about W freezing the joint account but now that I've taken-over the bills I feel empowered and more independent despite the financial implications.
No point sugar coating it and saying you are the same i.e. following DB because your not. It was only last week you were going to tell her this was all down to a parental death that made you depressed. No one that understands the process would consider doing that. There is a complete lack of understanding of the process and the impact of your actions- which is clearly reflected as your situation declines.
I didn't send her that message. I got it off my chest on here because sometimes I do have an off moment a need a 2x4. I do take responsibility for my part that I was depressed due to a death and so I became less attractive. I can understand that. What I don't take any responsibility for is W and ILs not standing by me and trying everything to keep our family together instead of making a massive effort plotting behind my back to leave and tell lies about me to give her a better chance of custody. That isn't acceptable to me.
A few days ago my IC said it was noticeable how much I've changed even in the last few weeks about how I've gone from trying to save the MR to seriously considering starting D. I know the kind of relationship that I want.
This week I declined W offering to help on one of my days with the kids. I said I'd be able to manage fine. It would have been an opportunity to see her but I didn't want too.
I have been great at not contacting her, I'm happy polite and confident when I have to be around her. I feel sorry for her because whilst she may win custody and have more money, she seems unhappy, lies all the time, is unable to cope without her parents doing so much for her, is losing me and our family being together.
I'm feeling similar to how I did in a relationship I was in many years ago. I was dumped and I moved far away to start a new life. I got back together with that woman about a year later after no contact. I was then dumped again as the person backed-down from moving to start a new life with me, but I wasn't bothered. I was soon glad to be out of that R because I'd changed but she hadn't. A few days ago my mother said to me that the woman had later written to her regretting how she had treated me. I hadn't known that. I'm sure W will one-day feel the same. The idea of a new life doesn't frighten me. I've done it before so I know I can do it again.
A few days ago I lost my phone. I panicked at first because there were contacts etc. on there not backed-up. Then I thought, 'Oh well, so what, it's an opportunity for a new phone and new contacts'. I told this to my IC who realised that really it was me being more ready to move-on with my life. Strangely, on the way home I went past a lost property office. I went inside and there was my phone on a desk. Some kind person had handed it in. I was willing to let it go but got it back. I realise that you can't pretend to yourself to let something go. You have to feel that way and you can't force yourself to feel that way, but you can do things to try to help you feel that way.
Sorry, I haven't read your whole sitch just pieces. Have you read NMMNG?
Sorry, I haven't read your whole sitch just pieces. Have you read NMMNG?
No, but I will look it up. Do you think it would be useful, and if so, why?
By the way, W birthday today and we have to meet for the kids change-over. Should I mention anything given that she has submitted a statement for the next court custody date that is packed with lies against me?
David,
Telling her Happy Birthday is ok. If you knew it was your neighbor or co worker you would tell them happy bday right. No different here. Not telling her is a d'!k move. But, buying her a BMW or diamond earrings is too much.
Just keep it cool,
and I would say, "Happy birthday" with a smile on my face. Dont ask her what she has planned. Simple.
Sorry, I haven't read your whole sitch just pieces. Have you read NMMNG?
No, but I will look it up. Do you think it would be useful, and if so, why?
By the way, W birthday today and we have to meet for the kids change-over. Should I mention anything given that she has submitted a statement for the next court custody date that is packed with lies against me?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1540043038&sr=8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=no+more+mr+nice+guy+robert+glover&dpPl=1&dpID=41mzOaXP%2BcL&ref=plSrch
Whether or not you are a true blue Mr. Nice Guy this book will have pieces of knowledge to strengthen who you are as a man.
If you have to do a face to face exchange then wishing her Happy B-Day just to be cordial is probably fine, but leave it at that. Maybe just do it in passing. Don't treat her like she is your W, treat her like she is just another person. Friendly, but not friends. Don't reach out to her.
Last note if you have read DR go back and read it again. Follow the book it is for you as much as it is for the MR.
Be strong!
Just keep it cool,
and I would say, "Happy birthday" with a smile on my face. Dont ask her what she has planned. Simple.
I've a cool new jacket and I'm going to look HOT when she sees me. LOL
The kids have already said what she has planned. W is doing something boring with some happily married ladies who I know well and she pretends to like. Given how conscious she is becoming about getting older she might even be in a MLC.
Anyway, I'm going to have a great few days with the kids. I'm going to take them to buy their first games console.
W arrived to drop off the kids. I politely said Happy Birthday but no card or present. One of the kids was a bit upset saying goodbye as it was W birthday and W has said she had nothing planned that evening so made them feel guilty about coming to me. W told them to get back into the car and that she would take them back with her for the night. W drove off with the kids so breaking the court order (again). She brought the kids back the next day. Kids are now with me and I plan to make the most of what time I have with them.
W arrived to drop off the kids. I politely said Happy Birthday but no card or present. One of the kids was a bit upset saying goodbye as it was W birthday and W has said she had nothing planned that evening so made them feel guilty about coming to me. W told them to get back into the car and that she would take them back with her for the night. W drove off with the kids so breaking the court order (again). She brought the kids back the next day. Kids are now with me and I plan to make the most of what time I have with them.
So what are you doing now? What does your lawyer say??
I will frankly be surprised if she even shows up to the next drop off....what incentive is there when the precendet is that you just politely wait until she comes back.
I get not starting a scene in front of the kids. I also get not sending the police to her house to escort them back.
But what kind of discussion are you having with her? How is she being shown that this type of behavior is not acceptable??
In the UK, the police don't get involved to escort them back; it is regarded as a civil matter. However, whilst taking the kids W said to them "shall mummy call the police?" which upset the kids. My L is dealing with it. I remain extremely calm at all times as W is twisting and lying about anything at all to use against me for the next custody case. I have asked W to meet to talk about how we can make things easier for the kids but she has refused. WAW/WW has become a law unto herself. I have to allow the legal system to deal with it. I worry about that because W is telling them lies. I've been a stay at home Dad and still live in the family home and so her best chance to get custody is to lie and try to get me into trouble. She has tried several times so far and failed.
Some good news... the court case has been delayed and so the kids are due to be back at home with me on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Years Eve, and New Years Day. It will be great for the kids to be at home where they have celebrated every year.
A few weeks ago I was in turmoil thinking about whether to D W. I am not involved with organised religion but I went into a cathedral and asked to speak to someone about my problems as I wanted advice about whether or not to D W. I met a woman who was amazing at listening and said a prayer for me to help guide me to make the right decision.
A few days ago I went back as I wanted to thank the person and say that a few things had started to go my way such as the children are due to be home with me for Christmas. I spotted her right away and she seemed surprised that I went to say thanks. As I was leaving I heard her say an Our Father over the PA system in the cathedral and she said that if anyone needed to talk then she was available to listen.
Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy name;
thy kingdom come;
thy will be done;
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation;
but deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom,
the power and the glory,
for ever and ever.
Amen.
I have heard and said the prayer so many times over the years and yet hadn't given it much thought until then but it suddenly made sense to me and it felt incredibly powerful.
I went out last night with a woman who had given me her phone number to get together to talk about a shared interest. It was great and all our other interests etc. are identical too. I've never known someone so perfectly matched for me. She even knew things I didn't know about an obscure passion of mine from an era before she was even born. She is totally gorgeous and inteligent. BUT she's less than half of my age.
We went to a cool bar, then went for a meal, then another cool bar. No chance of romance due to the age difference but we had a great evening and she asked to meet again in a few days. I declined because I'm busy but I also realised that I'd met W before the woman was even born.
Perhaps I was destined to meet her to help show me that there could be another life without W. Who knows. I want to try to save a MR with W but I can't do that alone so just have to try to get on with my life as best I can.
I met W at the change-over on Sunday. I then went into a shop with the kids, W followed us a few mins later. W offered to be helpful with a lift back to the family home etc. I've accepted in the past but she's twisted it and lied to use against me so I declined. I said "No, not after what happened last time". I guess this is me setting boundaries.
Sandi2 says about a WW needs a sense of loss to get out of a fog, perhaps the kids being with me at Christmas and New Year in the family home might do it? Regardless, I'm going to concentrate on giving the kids as normal/great Christmas as possible. The fact that W can't now be trusted to visit us even for Christmas is her loss but it's the kids I feel sorry for.
For the next couple of days I felt a dark feeling in my eyes and head. That cleared on Tuesday and Wednesday but I felt bad again today. It's like the song 'I get knocked down but I get up again'.
The kids and I seem closer than ever. They always say how good it feels to be home etc. However, W is manipulating them asking them to deceive me. I feel so much for them being put in that position by W. I tell them they are free to tell their mum whatever they like about me and their time with me.
W is doing a parenting course this week (I've already done it) because I'd asked the court to include it. For the sake of the kids, I hope that she realises that she's done terrible things.
GAL is going well. I have made a list of achievements since W left and a list of things I need to do. The to do list is getting shorter. I know what I have to do and to keep doing it. The 22 year-old i went out with last Friday sent me a message today to say she had a great time with me. I sat on a bench today and a woman sat beside me. She was lovely, told me she had no social life, is 24, single etc. I feel such positive interactions are helping to keep me going.
Met W for the kids change-over. She again followed us into the shop, I noticed that she'd made an effort to wear lots of make-up for a change, probably the most she's ever worn. I laughed but couldn't say why. She then got cash-back right in front of me. I said "you don't know when to stop do you" (as she's taking cash to hide). She only then realised what she'd done. It's become so second nature to her that she doesn't even think of doing it right in front of me. She then again offered us a lift back home, I declined (because she can't be trusted not to make a scene).
I bought the kids their first games console. W has then gone and bought them the same one and same game and from the same shop. I take the kids for a meal and W takes them to the same place days later and orders the same meals. Yesterday, W left one of the kids with a family who she never used to like because their child behaves so badly and eats tons of junk food.
My GAL is getting better all the time but I've had some bad days recently when I was feeling very down but the better days are getting better.
I went to a shop this morning and my card was declined. I can sort it out but it was just one more thing on top of everything else. Got home and then in tears.
W has lied so much to me, the police, courts, friends and relatives, tries to turn the kids against me etc. all because I had been depressed when a parent died, so earning less money and I told W her abuse was no longer acceptable to me. I thought she was the love of my life, my soul-mate, my best friend etc. I deserve far better than this.
Hi David,
you're in "poor me" mode. Snap out of it! You're living through her. You're competing with her. You're letting her decide when you're happy and when you're sad. You're deep in the games, she plays them, you play them, and then you both look at each other down the barrel of the gun.
You're going to have to toughen up if you want to save your MR. You need to get yourself right for your kids. But you have to start acting from your own value system instead of getting caught up in all these little games and fights. It's not helping you or your sitch or your kids. You think they can't tell what is going on?
Thanks ovrrnbw, I've realised my down times coincide with a lack of sleep the previous night. Yesterday, my eldest said they can't remember me ever being grumpy.
I'm staying calm and cool and not getting involved in W games. I've recently been declining her offers to get in the car with her for a lift when we meet once a week at the change-over for the kids. I think she would have noticed I've let go as that's how I felt the last time we met. I laughed to myself about her so I would have seemed happy.
I rarely contact her and only then related to the kids but today I sent a message asking if she would share the govt money we receive for the kids as it gets paid to her name. She said "Sorry" that she hadn't shared it and would do so and back-date it. It isn't much money but it helps. It's the first time she has said sorry for years but her words mean nothing to me at the moment. She has little option but to share the money anyway because it could have looked bad on her in court. Besides, it's a drop in the ocean compared to what she is taking to hide.
I've worked out that W and IL have been lying to me for 4 or more years about money they had inherited. During that time W had constantly made me feel bad for not being able to afford a bigger house... I now know she had the money to make that happen but had lied to me. Victim support have explained to me that W had been controlling and abusive for making me feel bad.
Yesterday, W said she wanted to come to the family home to look for something but didn't say what. I don't want her near home and that is why my L insists that change-overs have to be in a public place because W can't be trusted not to cause a scene to try to use against me.
Today, I went to a school event to support eldest. W and in-laws were there. I sat away from them and didn't start any conversation with them. They looked very guilty but then I forgot they were even there. At the end W came up to me to thank me for doing something for one of the kids that they had already thanked me for.
Part of me thinks separation has been good because initially, W had blamed me for everything and then she refused to discuss our MR. BUT I've since realised I've been lied to for years by W (and IL). I'm likely to lose my kids and home due to W lies but I still have my honesty and integrity.
I went to the school today to do a classroom activity with one of the kids and W.
I didn't start any conversation with W. She looked sad, glum and guilty. Most of the time I forgot she was there as I was so busy with the activity. No doubt I will have lots of bad days ahead but I hope to remember today as a positive step towards regaining me.
Moving forward D! Enjoy the freedom, enjoy the kids.
Moving forward D! Enjoy the freedom, enjoy the kids.
I will likely lose the kids and our home due to W lies to the police (who took no action) and the next family court date (who don't require any proof or beyond reasonable doubt. W making accusations is enough for the court to judge against me on probability). I've not done anything wrong but I stand to lose everything.
However, I feel I have made a personal step forwards today and it's a been due to a combination of things in the last few weeks but mostly W own behaviour and advice given to me by victim support and this forum. I now have boundaries because in my head I've said "enough" no more opportunities for W to abuse my trust and good nature.
Is that going to happen D? Are you sure of that? Stand where reality is man, PMA. We’ll face the days as they come. Stay strong man, enjoy the kids. Be there, in the present time.
(((David)))
The reality is that I will very likely lose the kids (at the next court date because W is telling lies) and so then the home (in a divorce but neither W or I have started that yet).
Today at the kids handover the kids said W is buying a new car, W replied that perhaps a good friend was buying it for her. I didn't respond. Kids later said in-laws are paying towards it. It seems W gives them cash and the in-laws buy stuff for W. It means keeping it all hidden from a future D agreement. When W said perhaps good friend was buying it for her, she said it in a bitchy way to try to make me jealous. I wasn't. I didn't respond and I carried on as if water off a ducks back.
When I saw the W and In-laws a few days ago they didn't look happy at all. It looked very awkward like they have fallen-out. Kids say the in-laws have now left the house so W will be on her own for next few nights or more whilst I have the kids. It's a rare occurrence for W to be on her own since separation without her parents. If there is an OP then I guess this is her chance to be with them or she's going to have time to think. Regardless, I'm very busy for the next week with kids and legal stuff.
I'm getting better at distancing my feelings from W antics. W turned up at the school today. It seems any excuse. I forgot she was there whilst I was talking to another parent. A lady mutual friend who has been backing W turned to me, looked at W and said "Strange, very strange". It seems she's having doubts about W. The lady later asked me some questions and I said I couldn't talk about it.
Steps forward David. Good.
The kids having mobile phones issue cropped up. I said that WW bought and given them without discussing having same guidelines in each home so created issues. WW replied saying she's wiling to discuss it and asking what I propose.
I don't want to be drawn into proposing anything because I don't trust her not to twist my words against me ahead of the custody court case. She created the issues. Any suggestions as to how to reply?
For legal reasons I was advised to write a diary of events and it's staggering looking back at WW lies. After she left she took us out for meals etc. but had acted extremely distant but generous etc. I now know she had made a statement against me to the police and was using these interactions to try to create a scene to get me into trouble, and although WW seemed to be generous she was secretely taking and hiding a lot of money. My suggestion to others is to write a diary because things that make no sense at the time may become clearer over time and help you to get some closure and move forwards.
Did the change-over with the kids. Several times she offered to drive us back to the home but I declined. I can't risk it anyway because too often she's tried to cause a scene ahead of the next custody court case. I barely said a word to W. She must now realise I've detached and not going to get involved in any of her antics. For the first time in about 6 months she now has the house where she now lives to herself for the next few nights or more. If there is an AP then now is her chance but I'm not as bothered now. I got home with the kids and thought W is missing out on a lovely family... but that's why she's lying because she wants the kids with her all the time. I'm going to have a great time with the kids whilst I can.
I've had a good day out with the kids, at one point I thought of W and felt sorry for her for missing out.
However, one of the kids has just told me that W is buying a new car and putting it in her parents name... obviously hiding it from future D.
For 25 years I've been a devoted husband and father but I've not earn very much in recent years because I've been a stay at home dad. W has lied to me for more than 4 years about inheritance she received, lied about buying a house with her parents 2 years ago, tries to turn the kids against me, lied to try to get me into trouble with the police, lies to the custody court, she is still taking and hiding money, now buying a car and putting it in her parents name. For all I know there could be OP too. How much more can she put me through. What she's doing should be a criminal offence. I'm feeling confused right now. Someone please advise me.
Pick yourself up. You are a great man and you will become a better man. Your wife deceit does not define you. You will create the life you always wanted. Her hiding her assets and motives will catch up with her. You have to let go of worrying about what she is doing what she's doing and why.
You are doing an awesome job.
And you are standing there as an honest man. You don’t need all of that f@cking crap. Honesty and sincerity, values your kids are getting. Be proud of that man!
Stand strong there David!
Thanks all for the support and advice I really appreciate it. Yesterday, I took the kids to school whilst a relative stayed at my home. Whilst I was gone W was caught entering the house. W lied saying that she urgently needed to talk to me about legal stuff. It was obviously BS she made up because she'd been caught and didn't expect anyone to be in the house because she knew I'd be out with the kids at that time. She left right away. I've thought for a while that she might have been bugging the house, knew my legal correspondence etc. in advance. It got so bad that I had to take calls in the garden. Now I realise that she's been coming into the house when she knows I'm not there and would have seen documents etc.
I feel sad that the mother of my kids is sinking so low and she's telling lots of outrageous lies in her statement for the next custody court date making me out to be a bad person, yet just about everyone believes her because she appears to be nice.
Feeling down as W isn't allowing me to see one of the kids on their birthday.
I've heard that it is going to be recommended to the court that the kids live mostly with their mum. I've been a SAHD for years, live in the family home, short walk to the school and yet I'm set to lose the kids and therefore our home too.
What does your lawyer say? I don't know anything about the law across the pond, but I would talk to your lawyer. I think being a SAHD may work in your favor.
There's an organisation that does a report to advise the judge who the kids should live with. It is very rare for a judge to go against their report. The person doing the report is to recommend the kids live mostly with their mother despite the fact that she will require childcare and I wouldn't etc. etc.
Do you have any official info?
What does your lawyer say?
Waiting to hear from L but not much they can say or do as judges normally follow the advice in the report.
The person writing the report had interviewed WW first. I could tell she had already made up her mind and believes WW, she pulled a face doubting me and interrupted every key point.
I saw WW at a school play a few days ago. We spoke at the end and she told about 6 lies in 30 seconds. I had hoped WW would have mellowed by now (6 months since she left) but it's relentless. She's acting like she's a victim but she's a liar. I'm being done over on the kids and money, nobody wants to hear the truth that WW is telling lies.
The kids are back with me. W looked very happy at the change-over but couldn't look at me. She will know it's going to be recommended the kids live mostly with her and she had a new car. It seems she's a WAW/WW and MLC.
Kids say they have heard they are going to be staying with me for christmas as the person writing the report has lots of other cases. I hope that it's true. I guess the longer the delay the greater the chance of the current routine of 50/50 being continued.
A couple of week ago I did a 180 and I sent a message to W on eldests birthday with a pic of their 1st birthday. I put Today is to celebrate ******* birth. I was there at your side throughout holding your hand and supporting you as our baby entered the world. It was the birth of our family. We shared the special moment. That is what life is about. I hope that you get the time and space to figure it out before too long as every moment is precious and those moments are being lost. Forgiveness is a decision. I want to do the right thing, do you?
I got back a message back saying it was a wonderful miracle day and that she was 'truly completely utterly grateful for that'.
... but she's since bought a new car and the kids say she was going to put it in her parents name (obviously W and her parents planning for a future divorce). A couple of days ago at a kids change-over W gave me a couple of old photos that I'd not seen before that I was on, not her and said she thought I'd like them.
6 months of separation and suddenly I feel like I've hit a wall because I miss passion, affection and love. I feel sad that W has gone so low being dishonest in the things she has done; sad for her and the kids. I wonder how much longer I can wait hoping that she will realise what she's done wrong.
I feel like calling her out saying that she has been deceptive for years and my gut feeling that she wasn't committed was right. Any advice?
You are longing for a long time gone W. You need to be living in the present time. Time to keep walking the road of honor and respect. What would you accomplish calling W out? Will it help you with your sitch? You can’t control W, you control yourself.
Keep DB David. We know you are hurting man. You have the strength inside to stand and face the future.
My best wishes for you and the kids, always.
(((D)))
A couple of week ago I did a 180 and I sent a message to W on eldests birthday with a pic of their 1st birthday. I put Today is to celebrate ******* birth. I was there at your side throughout holding your hand and supporting you as our baby entered the world. It was the birth of our family. We shared the special moment. That is what life is about. I hope that you get the time and space to figure it out before too long as every moment is precious and those moments are being lost. Forgiveness is a decision. I want to do the right thing, do you?
What was the point of saying this to her? This is clear pursuit, she's made it clear she doesn't want you. This is day one stuff!
I got back a message back saying it was a wonderful miracle day and that she was 'truly completely utterly grateful for that'.
... but she's since bought a new car and the kids say she was going to put it in her parents name (obviously W and her parents planning for a future divorce). A couple of days ago at a kids change-over W gave me a couple of old photos that I'd not seen before that I was on, not her and said she thought I'd like them.
Keep records of this in preparation of the court case to come. Don't read anything into her giving you those pictures.
6 months of separation and suddenly I feel like I've hit a wall because I miss passion, affection and love. I feel sad that W has gone so low being dishonest in the things she has done; sad for her and the kids. I wonder how much longer I can wait hoping that she will realise what she's done wrong.
I feel like calling her out saying that she has been deceptive for years and my gut feeling that she wasn't committed was right. Any advice?
Quit hoping she'll "come to her senses" and get on with your life. She may never come back from lala land, but she'll stay longer when you pursue and feed her cake.
She doesn't care that you miss passion, affection, and love - so keep it to yourself or tell someone else. Like us. And we've heard it now, so it's said. Now you need to get over it.
What will "calling her out" do? She'll say nothing that you want to hear, even if what you say is right. So don't.
David - Google Separate Dads UK. There are a lot of forums for dads in the UK who are going through what you are going through. Slightly different to this forum as the focus is on access and legal rights, but you might be able to get some targeted advice on there.
A couple of week ago I did a 180 and I sent a message to W on eldests birthday with a pic of their 1st birthday. I put Today is to celebrate ******* birth. I was there at your side throughout holding your hand and supporting you as our baby entered the world. It was the birth of our family. We shared the special moment. That is what life is about. I hope that you get the time and space to figure it out before too long as every moment is precious and those moments are being lost. Forgiveness is a decision. I want to do the right thing, do you? I got back a message back saying it was a wonderful miracle day and that she was 'truly completely utterly grateful for that'.
Your W has to get to a place where she remembers this on her own. Force feeding memories to her will only push her further away. She will see it as emotional blackmail and manipulation and will only resent you for it. Stop. Let her get to a place where she feels safe remembering these things (on her own). She is not in the mind frame to remember right now.
6 months of separation and suddenly I feel like I've hit a wall because I miss passion, affection and love.
We all hit this wall. But it will pass. Or it won't and you will move on. Either way, you will be fine.
I feel sad that W has gone so low being dishonest in the things she has done; sad for her and the kids. I wonder how much longer I can wait hoping that she will realise what she's done wrong.
... it will likely take more than 6 months. Marathon, not sprint. Only you know when you have run for a long enough.
I feel like calling her out saying that she has been deceptive for years and my gut feeling that she wasn't committed was right. Any advice?
Advice - don't. What good would it do? Your W will only deny everything or turn it around and blame you. Either way, you will end up feeling [censored].
Thanks all for your advice. It helps a lot.
Should I invite WAW/WW to Christmas dinner (the most important day in the UK) and if so what should I say?
Why would you want to have that dinner with W? I know, I know, but why? Where are your kids going to be? Have you got any kind of agreement about Christmas and New years eve? By the way, inviting her looks like pursuit IMHO. For what you have told us, she is far, far, far away...
I should not do that David...has your W said something about these days coming?
SHE IS LYING TO YOU AT EVERY TURN. SHE IS ACTIVELY TRYING TO TAKE THE KIDS AWAY. SHE IS STEALING AND HIDING AWAY MONEY.
Seriously. Right now, name ONE redeeming quality that she is showing to you.
Why on earth would you invite her to XMas dinner?!?
But since youre probably going to do it anyway - "W - I am planning to have Xmas dinner on XXX at XXX. You are welcome to join us if you would like."
But I dont see any reason why you would want her there.
You want to invite the wife to Christmas Dinner who is trying to take your kids from you and constantly lies?
But why?!
Dude. Stop stop stop stop. NO YOU DON'T INVITE HER TO DINNER.
I know this is hard. But you're doing the opposite of detachment. Take a step back and listen to everyone here.
The kids are due to be with me on Christmas eve and day and NYE and day.
I already know that W is 95 percent likely to win custody of the kids at the next court date. If I show a willingness to allow her to visit on Christmas day then it might even help me a bit even if she declines (I would expect her to decline but I think she'd be tempted on the day just to show up). Next year, she will likely have the kids for christmas and I'd want to see them so hope she'd offer such an invite to me.
The only redeeming feature is that she offered 50/50 custody out of court at the last date and dropped all allegations against me - but later claimed the judge had decided that not her, and then she's put some allegations back in against me for the next date when it was agreed there wouldn't be any.
For all I know, in her head W may well blame me for her own actions. There has been no R talks in the 7 months since she has left other than a few months ago when W said she would feel uncomfortable about coming back to which I replied that I wouldn't want it to go back to how it was either. I'd said I'd been reading a book on anger and resentment and she said that perhaps she should read it too. The money she's taking to hide is her own money. She has more than me.
I've been doing some reading and it seems that WW may assume that I'm doing the same things as her - hiding money too, so I've been thinking of sending a message to say that I'm not doing anything like that.
Any advice is very much appreciated.
I spoke to WW at an event we were at seperately. I said to WW that I didn't approve of her taking money and I now know she hadn't been honest about it for years. She said that she had been unhappy before then. She then claimed I'd called her stupid and had been critical of her the way she dressed and walked and I didn't want her seeing friends. The truth is that I used to encourage her to go out to see friends but she'd say she couldn't be bothered. She'd only had one friend locally. Her lack of friends wasn't my fault. We were busy parents, working and studying too.
However, I said that I understood that she must have thought she had valid reasons at the time. I said I had wanted us to be able to talk in a calm way, she said yes but would want someone else there too but wasn't yet ready for that and so she would write me a letter. I said there was no need for a letter. I said that I wasn't going to plead for her to come back as I wanted to be with someone who was fighting for my family not a partner who was half-hearted. I said that she'd never apologised for what she's done. She then said that she was sorry. I said those are just words not actions. W said the kids don't want us to be together. At the end she said "It has been noted that you've been making a lot of good progress".
Oh wow.. this is turning into an absolute car crash.
David.. I said many months ago what would happen if you didn't get your act together. You have had so much good advise from people who have been there and got the t shirt and you have ignored everything.
Your desperation is palpable and your quest to get wife to 'snap out of it' is nothing but a fantasy. She doesn't love you nor does she want to be with you - why are you taking so long to understand this?
Im sorry for the harshness but you really need to start looking in the mirror here because your view on reality is sadly warped.
Benito, I do understand it. WW is currently a selfish, greedy, manipulative liar with no empathy so will get what she wants at any cost. She sees it as a battle for money and the kids. There's nothing I can do about how she is, and I don't want to be with someone being like that. She is on a mission to get what she wants (kids and money) she won't start to change until she has what she wants.
I keep getting very close to filling for D. I was ready to do it yesterday after seeing WW but upon arriving home there was a letter about a report on the kids and it says their wish is for W & I to get back together. I've not slept all night with that dilemma on my mind.
There's nothing I can do about how she is, and I don't want to be with someone being like that.
But....
1) You KEEP having these discussions like you posted on the last page. Whats the point? If you are trying to get her to 'wake up', it isnt working. You just keep smashing your head into the wall. "I dont approve of you stealing money from me".....like, how does that come across as anything particularly relevant at this time? I think when you see her, you should drink 15 STFU smoothies and just leave it alone.
2) You are talking about inviting her to Christmas dinner.......
There's nothing I can do about how she is, and I don't want to be with someone being like that.
But....
1) You KEEP having these discussions like you posted on the last page. Whats the point? If you are trying to get her to 'wake up', it isnt working. You just keep smashing your head into the wall. "I dont approve of you stealing money from me".....like, how does that come across as anything particularly relevant at this time? I think when you see her, you should drink 15 STFU smoothies and just leave it alone.
It had crossed my mind that W might be hiding money because she assumed that I'd be doing it too. I had read somewhere that people in such circumstances often assume that their spouse is doing the same money hiding stuff so I thought I'd say to WW that I'm not doing that sort of thing.
Here's a really weird thing... I've just spoken to a shop worker who sees W taking money out and W doesn't know that I know them. They said they had just seen W and (for the first time since months before BD) W paid for goods in cash rather than paying on a card and taking out cash. Now either W has changed her ways about hiding money and is using cash she's hidden or she somehow knows how I'm aware of one of her scams so is going out of her way to be seen paying in cash.
You are talking about inviting her to Christmas dinner.......
I decided not to mention it to W.
So you talked to a shop worker about your w spending habits? That is just so strange - and stalker like! Currently you are no longer together so can she not spend money on what she wishes?
As for Christmas dinner - enjoy the time with your kids. What positive would come from inviting her over? Your last conversation seemed to be about making your wife apologise.
A shop worker approached me to mention it as so much cash had been taken so often. WW pays for something of low value and then asks for maximum cash back. It then shows on bank statements as one cost not the cash listed - it's a way she can take and hide cash from a D as then there's no trace of the cash on the statements. A few weeks ago I overheard some women W knows saying they were doing the same scam hiding money ahead of their divorces.
Another coincidence today, I went into a city to purchase presents and walking towards me was one of the kids with my in-laws. Apparently, W had gone to get her moustache waxed. I had to laugh.
Weird thing tonight... I sent a text saying I wanted a share of the money we get from the gov for the kids and to set up a direct debit. Later when exchanging the kids WW tried to give me an envelope of cash. I said I didn't want it in cash, that I wanted a bank transfer so there is a record of it. She's really smart and manipulative because she said to the kids that she was giving me money and how much it was (as if to make her look good). Now she knows that I know she's been taking cash she could be looking to pay me in cash so that she can explain why she has so much of it.
Kids have told me that WAW/WW is setting them up with bank accounts and not to tell me else I would take their money, and that WW has told them she wants a D and her parents are to sell their house and move next to W once D has happened.
W and her parents have planned all this so much that I can't see WW changing her mind even if she wanted to do so.
And this is the woman you wanted to invite to dinnner?? The parental alienator?
Let this drive your focus to protecting your self and the kids and nothing else
I've had a really good day today. I went to counselling, then went into a cathedral where I spoke to a religious person who has listened and said prayers for me (they seem to work). Whilst there I picked up a book about unicorns and it said to close your eyes for 2 mins and listen, then think of a unicorn, I then made a wish to meet someone new. There was nobody around but as I left a woman walked past me. I then thought Umm... I walked back and spoke to her. I said I know this seems really weird but I've just read a book and it said what to do and then you walked past. We had a laugh about it. We spoke for more than 2 hours stood in a gift shop. It was great. I tried to excuse myself to leave a few times but she wanted me to stay to talk. She was amazing to talk too. I was stood there thinking 'why didn't W and I ever talk like this?'. She said her interest - it's top of my GAL to do list. She gave me the details of the club she's in and which night it's held but I can't do it at the moment as that is when I have the kids but that will likely change.
On the court case for the kids, it seems that If I challenge the recommendations then I will get a day in court. I've been totally straight-up an honest. I hope it's noticed.
At the exchange of kids, W couldn't look me in the eyes. W said some of the junk food she had bought was for me (it didn't seem to be), I declined. I got the change-over done asap and I was genuinely happy.
Kids and I then went out with some relatives and we all had a brilliant time doing some GAL things we'd not done before.
I've been feeling a lot stronger and my mind less foggy but it's Christmas eve... I can't help but feel the need to offer the hand of forgiveness to W... but even if she accepted I couldn't trust her not to cause a scene and she knows where the kids and I are if she cared enough to want to put things right...
What is this put things right nonsense???
She has put things right.. She was unhappy and put things right by leaving you. But you keep trying to drag her back to somewhere she doesnt want to be. It's desperate and creepy.
She doesn't want your forgiveness.
Leave her alone.. you are getting a bit wierd now. Like a stalker who just doesn't get the message. Move.on
Kids and I had a really good christmas and new year without W.
Unfortunately, W failed to return the kids and so has broken the court order again. I then saw the kids at the school to check they were OK. W then wanted to speak to me, I said she was breaking the court order as the kids should be with me. W lost her temper, shouting and swore. I walked away calmly. Later in the day she took the kids out of school before I could collect them and so broke the court order again. Kids have still not been returned to me and L are dealing with it.
What I realised is that I wasn't longing for W at all.
I am glad you have come to that realization David. It will help with detachment and moving forward. I hope the L's get things sorted out. It is not healthy for the children to have their mom breaking court orders and then yelling and swearing at you when you remind her of it. Hopefully they will be returned to you soon. (((HUGS)))
Thanks DV6.
I went to the school today as W still hasn't handed back the kids. I spoke the the head of the school and W came over to talk. The 3 of us spoke and W is now threatening to call the police if I go to collect both kids from school. However, she says I can take one of the kids - the one who doesn't take any notice of all the W manipulation.
The situation is dreadful for the kids but I can't do anything about W behaviour.
I felt completely detached this morning, stood up for myself and the kids and weirdly I think W showed interest. The head of the school said we had to think of the long-term when we would be in new relationships. W grunted and didn't look happy about that comment. I thought I look forward to having a new relationship.
You need to be the lighthouse for your kids. We know you are taking good care of them. Get lawyer´s advice and keep cool, calm and collected. Be the healthy parent David.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Neffer.
My L says that as WW is expecting to win the court case, she's acting as if she has already won and can do what she likes.
One of the kids was returned to me last night, the other wasn't. We had a good time.
I saw WW again at the school today. She asked to speak to me and looked very tired in her eyes like she had been crying a lot. She said she'd just heard I was going to be challenging a court report and she didn't seem happy about it. It will mean the process lasting longer and her being questioned in court. She said she's noticed the kids have been doing fun things with me and that she now wants more communication between us (she's prob only saying it to give a better impression of her to the court).
Again, I realised afterwards that I never felt any wanting her when with her. It hadn't crossed my mind when with her. The more I see her true colours the easier it gets to detach.
The more I see her true colours the easier it gets to detach.
yep, completely agree David. Nothing has helped me move myself forward from my sitch as my WW's actions/words. if I had to detach without that and/or WW was more back and forth about her feelings then it would be significantly harder to detach. in a way it's funny to me how significantly our WWs can help us in recovering ourselves.
echo exactly Neffer's comments to you. praying for you and your family.
-B
Sounds like she is going ot lose her court case. She is sabatoging herself.
Unfortunately in about 99% of cases the judge rubber stamps the recommendations in the report. WW coached the kids what to say for the report and it goes with what the kids have said in her favour. The kids even told me that WW had told them what to say.
WW is also frightening the kids saying she won't allow them a passport else I would take them away and never bring them back, told them not to tell me she's opening a bank account for them else I would take all their money, telling them how much she's spent on legal fees, telling them she's going to buy them a big new house etc. At public change-overs (which are specified in the current court agreement and my idea) she says to them that they don't have to go to me and that she won't allow me to "force them" to go with me and asks the kids if she should call the police. She is extremely smart and extremely manipulative.
At a changeover (which has to be in a public place) she put the kids in thin summer clothes on a freezing winter night and told them I was forcing them to walk home with me in the cold. If I allow her to take them to my house then she kicks off causing trouble in private. It's relentless and it's harming the kids. There's nothing I can do except not go down to her level. I don't react. I stay cool but what she's doing is working on one of the kids who is turning into a nervous wreck and WW is even blaming that on me. However, the kid is only a nervous wreck when with WW, not at all when with me.
I've been a SAHD for about 10 years, the main carer for them, still in the family home where they've lived all their lives, just around the corner from their school. The only way WW could win is to try to turn the kids against me and try to get me into trouble and that's what she's been trying to do. She tried to get me into trouble with the police but fortunately I had text message evidence from her showing what she claimed wasn't true. She's put those claims back into her latest court statement despite the judge saying they shouldn't be. But what ultimately matters is the report the judge acts upon and that is what I'm going to contest. The odds are massively against me and it will cost a fortune but the kids are better living with me and I'm putting them first.
(((David))) Your WW sounds like a NIGHTMARE. What is wrong with some people? All I can say is just to keep documenting everything and recording the names of any witnesses to this ridiculous behaviour. One thing is for sure, she is definitely helping you with detachment. Hard to have any good feelings for someone who is playing with your kids' emotions like this. So unfortunate...
David,
Do you have a calendar journal marking all interactions with W/kids/changeovers? If you are expecting trouble, have you tried just calling the police proactively to explain the situation?
R2C always recommends the book Divorce Poison for people with adverse divorces with kids. You probably should get it and read it a few times over. I think guys like R2C and Zuess had some adverse divorces, you should go read their sitches.
Lastly, I have read, watched, and heard plenty of people who had to spend fortunes to just get to spend 50% of their time with their children. Not one of them said it wasn't worth it. Its only money and you can't take it when you go, and when your kids are older someday they will realize what you were willing to do for them. Keep it up.
David
I think I've mentioned this before, but there are a lot for forums online for dads in the UK going through divorce. You might be able to get more relevant advice as to how our system works and also speak to other dads going through the same thing. Our system here in the UK, I am led to believe by friends who have divorced, tends to favor the mother in determining the custody arrangements so there would be a lot of men going through similar difficult custody battles.
I have to admit I do not understand your W. I understand (to a degree) a WS/WAS who abandons both their partner and their children (part of the escape responsibility fantasy) and I understand a WS/WAS who abandons their partner but, once they've left, suddenly fear losing their children and double down on being a good parent, but I do not get someone who very obvs. has no interest in being a parent (a real parent would want to minimize the impact on their kids) but fights dirty (incl. using the children) to keep them. How can she be so petty that she would fight for something she does not want just so that you can't have them.
However, her motivations don't matter. In the end, the only thing that matters is how you deal with it. And it sounds like you are dealing with it in as dignified way as you can given the circumstances. Keep strong. Don't stoop to her level and FFS start keeping a journal of dates and times and things that were said. Also, I agree with Twofeet, I would fight to my last penny if someone tried to keep me away from my kids. Houses, cars etc are just things.
I would urge you to do a quick google search on UK divorce resources for fathers. Our system is not the same as the US.
Kids are back with me. W sent me a message in advance telling me to look pleased to see the kids - as if I wouldn't be. What do I make of that - W telling me to look pleased to see my kids after she had kept them so breaking a court order?
Upon arrival she said in front of the kids that she would be collecting them a couple of days early (doing so would break the court order). Saying these things in front of the kids puts pressure on them to go with what she says.
Had a great time out with the kids today. I got the phone for them to call their mum but they don't want to speak to her.
I think your WW has some serious personality issues and I agree with what everyone here as advised. Keep really meticulous records of the things she says and does. So sorry you and your kids have to endure this brutal behaviour. (((HUGS)))
Yes, it seems that WW does have some very, very serious issues that had been well hidden but she's blaming me rather than take responsibility for her own actions and lies. It seems WAW, WW, MLC and personality issues all in one. W presents herself as being a lovely, kind person and I think she worries about her personal image so much that she won't be honest about the bad things that she's done.
I've been keeping records but the person who wrote the report for the court never gave me a chance to present them.
WW has been continuing to break the court order. She claims the kids don't want to see me.
However, I then saw them and one was desperate to come home with me, the other looked sad and under a lot of pressure from WW not to go with me. WW let only one come home with me. Court date in a few days and I'm expecting W to claim eldest doesn't want to see me so both should live with her.
The manipulation by W is incredible and it's relentless. I so hope the court can see through what she's doing else she's going to win and not acknowledge her terrible behaviour, in fact it will reward her terrible behaviour and justify it to herself.
W claimed the kids didn't want to see me and the court were not able to hear evidence. W only offered me the kids for 1 night every 2 weeks, and an evening meal once a week. The judge said pointless making even that enforceable as she'd break the agreement anyway. So now I have that for the next 4 months until evidence can be heard.
I am so sorry this is happening David. I can't believe the UK allows for this and blantantly allows for child alienation.
You need to do your research and fight like heck. This isn't a cheeseless tunnel. You will never regret putting all the effort out in the world for your kids.
The reason why one of the kids hasn't wanted to see me is because I discovered that W had been getting them to secretly make notes about me whilst with me. Kid obviously doesn't want to talk about it and W doesn't want kid to talk to me about it so WW breaking the court order and claiming to do it because the kid doesn't want to see me - without stating the reason why kid doesn't want to see me.
What Ive done wrong is to discovered W getting the kid to do something bad behind my back and yet I will lose the kids because the kid doesn't want to see me to talk about it.
WW can claim what she likes and so get what she likes until the courts have time to consider evidence, W wanted a court date 8 months away so 4 months is actually good but still by that time the kids will be settled with WW, and so it will go against me even if I win as the court won't want to change their routine.
A friend of a family member died. WW has text me asking if I am OK.... WW who I discovered had lied to me for years about money, tried to get me into trouble to give her a better chance of getting the kids, tries to turn the kids against me, doesn't want the kids to see me... asks if I am OK... as if for one second she has any regard for my feelings whatsoever.
... and the person who died, before the person had died the kids had created pictures for them to hang on the wall in hospital. WW had asked for the pictures to be taken away and given to her (WW) instead.
Is it wrong to feel annoyed when someone who thinks so little of you shows fake concern?
Oh man, monkeys live everywhere...
Been a while so here's an update. I had a day out miles away with the kids. We had a great time. A few days later WW went to the exact same place with them.
I have been wondering why WW keeps copying the things I do with the kids. Today, someone explained why it could be... it is like a dog or cat marking its territory... that it is a known tactic to diminish the good memories the kids have of doing unique things with me. WW goes and does the same thing with them and then it doesn't seem to be so special from the kids perspective having done that only with me. The manipulation by WW is incredible. It is relentless and exhausting.
Anyway, a young lady that I regularly speak to very briefly in passing has been texting me about meeting up for a coffee. She is less than half my age, and stunning. It's nice that she is making an effort to be friends with me. I also went on a blind date with someone but I said in advance that it was just to be sociable and there's no romance. It went well and will meet as friends in the future. She has been single for 7 years.
Today, I was out and about sightseeing on my own and I met a woman on a day trip visiting where I live. I got talking to her and we spent the day together. She said she had been single for 10 years since a very bad relationship that hurt her a lot. She said that she had once been in a relationship for 5 years with someone she had never loved but didn't have the heart to say to him as it would have upset him. I wondered whether WW had felt that way about me. The lady doesn't have any kids, and she goes travelling a lot to lots of different places on her own on a very low budget. She said that she had such a lot of respect for me - it was weird hearing someone say that considering WW had left saying she had no respect for me.
I find that meeting new people and listening to their lives is very interesting. I feel that I am making some progress.
I have just been informed by my L that W L has been instructed to start divorce proceedings and wants me to get together financial and house valuation info for a divorce.
What should I do?
I have been learning a lot about narcissism and come to the conclusion that it fits WW - lies, manipulation, smirk, selfishness, no empathy, sense of entitlement, emotionally immature, blaming and deflecting, everything black or white with no grey areas etc. Has anyone else noticed this?
W and I spent about an hour together today. Now that I am more aware of narcissism, I could clearly see the very troubled person hiding behind a happy mask. WW hasn't changed, if anything she's got worse and has taken her troubles with her.
I have been learning a lot about narcissism and come to the conclusion that it fits WW - lies, manipulation, smirk, selfishness, no empathy, sense of entitlement, emotionally immature, blaming and deflecting, everything black or white with no grey areas etc. Has anyone else noticed this?
W and I spent about an hour together today. Now that I am more aware of narcissism, I could clearly see the very troubled person hiding behind a happy mask. WW hasn't changed, if anything she's got worse and has taken her troubles with her.
I absolutely believe it fits my exW, too. Although when talking about it with my IC back in the beginning of January, my IC thought she maybe fit a little bit of two disorders. Narcissism and another one that I can't recall off hand. I did look it up afterwards and parts of it seemed to fit as well. My IC said a lot of times people can have a few traits of a couple different ones. We had 2 joint C sessions, therefore, my IC met with my exW both those times. So, it wasn't a diagnosis simply based off what I was telling her in my sessions, either.
Everything you list as traits that your WW shows I saw a lot in my exW. It is truly been mind blowing to me that someone can actually act and portray themselves in such a way. Right before our D was final, she had the audacity to tell me that she's "been working very hard for many weeks with her IC to try to recover from the fear she has of me." The only thing I can come up with is that this is the ONLY justification she can use that can't be completely proven to be false, even though it is. Never once, in our R, have I ever done anything that would cause her to "fear" me. I'm the most laidback person there is. I forgave her TWICE for having A with 2 of my best friends. And was willing to do it a third time! Since having fear of me is a feeling, she can run with that without anyone telling her she's wrong to feel such a way. (Narcissism?) I wanted to tell her that maybe she should be devoting her IC sessions to fixing her own issues, but we all know how that would go!
Hang in there, D.
I thought I'd give an update... and this may be surprising... I'm at a stage whereby I now quite like not being in a relationship. I am outgoing but like my own company.
WW hasn't yet filed for D although I know she had completed the forms many months ago. My legal advice is surprised she hasn't yet filled.
The kids and I have great times together. I'm now enjoying it more at times than when with WW. One of the kids wants to live with me. The other is under an awful lot of pressure from WW not to stay with me - WW is spending a fortune in legal costs to ensure the kids go to her. It will be months more before a legal decision is made over the kids and the odds are still stacked against me.
I keep going with honesty and integrity in the hope that justice will prevail.
Guys, the best revenge is to drop them emotionally and create a great life forward for yourself. She a narc. ?! Who cares . She’s an evil manipulating w@@@@e , lucky escape, get out there and GAL , there are plenty of much better women out there , learn from your mistakes and shine !!
I have been learning a lot about narcissism and come to the conclusion that it fits WW - lies, manipulation, smirk, selfishness, no empathy, sense of entitlement, emotionally immature, blaming and deflecting, everything black or white with no grey areas etc. Has anyone else noticed this?
W and I spent about an hour together today. Now that I am more aware of narcissism, I could clearly see the very troubled person hiding behind a happy mask. WW hasn't changed, if anything she's got worse and has taken her troubles with her.
Thats my EXWW. NPD to the max. Controlling, manipulative, zero empathy.
Get the docs ready that they asked for. Dont fight it or delay it. Doing so will delay your new life.
And enjoy the attention from other women. They see you for who you are right now. Thats what matters. We are not the past. We are the now.
Pushing the eject button was the best action I have taken for myself in a very long time. Having a GF 13 years my junior is one of the best experiences I have had in my life.
Thought I'd give an update... I have better times with the kids than when I was with ex.
It's starting to feel like I've dumped ex rather than the other way around. Ex now wears sexy clothes when she sees me, and texts me in the middle of the night about the kids when they are with me. It seems like she's trying to get a reaction from me but I am not getting drawn into it as I'm sure it's NPD hoovering and not genuine. I can now see it so clearly that I laugh to myself that ex seems desperate. A mutual friend said it seems like ex and I have been getting along better. I was surprised to hear that as I keep myself to myself with minimal contact and they couldn't have got that impression from me.
I'm OK.
Great to hear . Keep on going