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Posted By: LoneWlf Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 09/18/18 01:41 PM
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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2802751&page=6

Thanks for your input Rose and RR.

Have you explored wih a therapist your inability to see things from another person's point of view and acknowledge their feelings without justifying yourself?

Therapist said that partially stems from being sixth born in a family of 7 kids. Often times being pushed aside. And not having the best relationship with my dad. Often felt that what I did was wrong or not good enough. Things I am currently working on.
What specific actions are you taking to work on seeing things from another person's point of view?

Do you have plans to apply these actions to understand your wife's view of your marriage?
Thanks again Rose- What my T said was basically empathize with my W. To first breathe and take a second after the person talks. Take my self out of the equation. Don't be so quick to assume or offer solutions. If necessary repeat what was said to show them you understand what you are dealing with( ask questions if you don't understand). Show W you understand what ever it is - strengths, weaknesses, goals, hopes, priorities, needs, limitations, fears, and concerns are. On top of that show W your willingness to connect on a personal basis. Make sure she feels respected and heard. Take the time to process the information then offer a solution or alternatives that empower W or a solution agreeable to all parties.
As I said before, I am permanently under construction. I am looking to better myself and am currently using this mostly on my S because of limited contact with my W. I know I have a long way to go.
The suggestions from your therapist are good ways of practicing empathy when you are interacting with your wife, and there are ways to practice empathy when you are thinking of and writing about your wife.

You don't have to be interacting with your wife to think about your marriage from her point of view and cut her the same amount of slack you cut yourself when you talk about your marriage.

Until then, you're going to stay stuck in anger, because her choices are always going to seem selfish if you look at them only from your view and your son's view.
LW, it also boils down to love. Do you love her enough to let her go her own way, even if it isn't what you want. This was a tough lesson for me. Trying to claim I loved my my W without being able to empathize with her AND being able to let her do what she wanted to do. I call it selfish love. While I thought she was being selfish, I too was being selfish.

Love her so much that you have to let her go. It is tough, but that is true love.
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 09/19/18 01:14 PM
I understand the challenges you are facing LW, first as LBS we have to pick the pieces of our broken hearts and bring ourselves out of our misery to a place where we begin some healing. Then when anger sets in as a defense mechanism we have to learn empathy to try and understand the WAS perspective however unreasonable and cruel it may feel. I am probably stuck in the same phase as you, how do you deal with self respect and love post depression while actually still maintaining love for a S who hurt us beyond what we could ever imagine. But Rose and Steve are right on, we need to love them from afar selflessly and as hard as it may seem try to understand their POV . May be down the road like we learnt to hold ourselves together from falling apart, we will learn this too. I could really use some tools to learn how to detach and yet love a person who has wronged and hurt us so much
Rose -S85 - Sia - thank you for your love and support. It pains me to say that I feel stuck in this anger phase. I know I need to move past it to heal properly. One of the things that both W and I did well in the end was conflict avoidance. While perfecting this avoidance tactic communication became limited and strained. I knew things were not right but after reaching out countless times to reconnect both physical and non physical. We both ceased to really communicate. I no longer reached out feeling hurt- unattractive - unloved an appreciated and she did the same. I take ownership in my part in this and could have handled things differently.

Love her so much that you have to let her go. It is tough, but that is true love.


My IC shared this with me and I will do my best to retell the story as he told me. I cannot remember names and everything but I will do my best.

Mary had been seeing John for a period of time and things were going well. During one rough patch in the relationship they temporarily decided to give each other time and space to figure things out separately. During that time Mary went back to live with mom and dad 7 hours away. During the separation period Mary met Bob and began to like Bob in more ways than a friend. Mary and Bob became close and confided in one another. As time passed Mary and John slowly began to communicate- first about simple things but as time went along Mary began to see why she had loved John so much. Things progressed with both men . Mary thinking she had more invested with- John agreed to try again with John prompting a move back 7 hours away. As things got better with John - Mary constantly asked herself " what if.... with Bob?" Being truly torn and wanting to be up front with John she opened up and told him about these feelings. John was very understanding and let Mary express her true feeling without guilt or shame. In the following days John had got Mary a present .She opened it up- it was a ticket to travel back to see Bob. When Mary asked - John said that he would not stand in the way of Marys happiness. He wanted for Mary to see Bob and and although he would be hurt If Mary left permanently -he would be most happy for her. Mary thought about this for a couple days and decided with John's blessing that she would go. On the day of the trip- John dropped Mary off at the train station not knowing if this was the last time he would see Mary. They said their teary goodbyes and then John left the station. 3-4 hours later John gets a call from Mary. Not knowing what it is he picks up. John asks Mary whats wrong? Mary said I hope you have travel insurance or at least I hope you can get a refund on this ticket? John ask why? She said she wan't going to see Bob. When pressed for a answer Mary said I no longer wish to see Bob because when you bought me the ticket it showed how you loved me so much you were willing to let go of everything- This is the person that I want to spend my life with. So the fairy tale ends - and they lived happily ever after. BTW this is a true story -but the names have been changed to protect the innocent.

My IC said set her free- she has free will if she returns then love fully!!- If she doesn't return -love fully!!

Anyways - Peace and Love to all!! Blessings!
Amazing story. And so appropriate for so many on this board trying to hold on to their spouse for dear life.

Really what John did was realize that he and Mary would never be happy together if half her heart was elsewhere. And that Bob would always be a presence, if not physically then in thought, in his and Mary's relationship.

Let her go...to get her back. Doesn't always work, but is much more effective then holding on for dear life.
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 09/25/18 01:47 AM
LW, that is such a great story. I hope R2C sees it and adds it to his quotes thread. Thank you for sharing that.
Morning all,

Steve85, Sia I'm glad that story helped you. As for me I have started a new job this week with a start up company looking to move to the next level. I am excited about the opportunity and look forward to the challenge. My challenge now is to find my balance - I do not want to backslide and loose all the hard work therefore I have continued to go to the gym at 5am- i missed Monday just wanting to see how much I need to get ready but so far have continued. This is one area in my life i do not want to change. Before I was M - I was active and hardcore into the gym. I even did some training with W at first. I even went to the gym the day I got married. I shortly stopped after S was born. I take ownership of that. Now I want to find balance. This is why I may not post or be on here so often.

One thing I want to share with you guys is last night while saying prayers, my S says " Dear Lord please help mom open her eyes". Now I know not to mind read but I think it means he wants his family back together. He still does not talk to her or reply to her texts. I'm doing my best to stay clear. Earlier this week i was thanking him for his help in my transition letting him know my priorities are still on him and I asked him does he want to see IC in this transition? He said "No. I'm good" . Should i reach out to him and say Moms been gone for 4 months now - It seems she's made up her mind and we need to start accepting her decision but continue our best to have an awesome life -individually, together no matter what. Or should I just steer clear of the situation. I feel he seems to be stuck and may not want to accept it. Any thoughts and suggestions is welcomed.

For all that are out there - I am with you in prayer- Blessings!
On other thing... Last night W was to come by the house for clean up -but my dog was constantly licking his left paw and it became red and inflamed. So I had to make a vet appointment and needed to make after work because I am new - I texted W I had to do it and needed to reschedule clean up. She texted me last night. thanks for letting me know and please let me know how he ( my dog ) is? . How detailed a response should I give her?- Thanks.
Hi Lonewlf, I'd probably say something like "he's expected to make a full recovery" or "he got some antibiotics and should be better in a few days." Something simple like that should do the trick.
Thanks Nic, i did not want to give her a full response but I believe she deserves something because she still cares for the dog. Cheers!
Why not give her a full response? It's her dog too.
LW, i know itís a little consolation, but at least she still cares about the dog. WW doesnít even give a damn about ours. Sheís the one that wanted them so bad to begin with after our other one passed away. And if you read my sitch, the dog dying was the reason she destroyed her family.
My W and I still share a dog as well. If anything happened to it, I would tell her all about it. If she cares about the dog (and some people care very much about their pets) it would be overly harsh to deny her that information.

She is asking about how the dog is, so I would tell her what was wrong and what the vet said. You can still keep it brief and business like.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 09/30/18 07:56 PM
LW, until you are done punishing your W, you both will continue to suffer.
update

I have not been here much because I have been really busy with the new job. There is so much to learn. S and I continue on our path -I recently got S a small accessory he wanted for his computer because he has not missed a day of school and has done all his homework and assignments. He was happy. My W came over yesterday for more clean up - S stayed upstairs in his room doing his homework the whole 2 hours. W seemed better and was even joking with me at times . We had some small talk about my new job, the dog but more detailed talks about S. I made sure to validate where I could and give her as much info about sIt seemed very relaxed no tension. She did bring back empty boxes for me from her move saying that I could use them when I move. Anyways no R talks. Just same old same old. Really no feelings either way - no butterflies no anger just blah. One other thing that happened was when I told S that W was coming over - I said he should not keep all this anger pent up inside. I also asked him why he choose to stay with dad? He said because he is mad at mom and that he could learn more from dad. I then asked - what has mom taught you all these previous years. He said " nothing" . I said what has dad taught you. He said to work hard - give it your all and never quit". Lastly I said If you are so mad at mom - is there room in your heart if she wanted to to come home? He said -yes I want my family back. So I left it at that. I'm still plugging away and doing my best. Thanks all for all your support- Blessings!
Congrats on the job.

The conversation with your son makes me cringe. I look forward to the day when you have enough self-esteem not to need your son to compare you to your wife in order to make you feel good about yourself. That whole conversation was damaging.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/04/18 10:56 AM
I agree with Rose.

This contempt is bad for S. Passive aggressive is still aggressive. It's bad for your sitch. It sacrifices control, which IMO is most probably the cause of your MR problems. I fear you have channeled this need for control onto your S. You feel in control when S is performing correctly and thinking correctly. What about accepting these people as they are?

I'm telling you because it does you no good to hear anything else. As your advocate.

I will pray that your heart is softened.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/04/18 02:33 PM
LW, I've been thinking about your sitch and my last post this morning and I want to express some frustration as well as point out a few things that I feel you may be missing. Sometimes it helps to know the WHY in order to accept and best execute some of these DB techniques.

I think you are a good guy. When I decided to follow your thread, I did it because, in giving back, I felt it best to go deep with a few people since it's impossible to keep up with all people's sitch. So you won or lost depending on how you look at it. cool

We all vent. Most share our feelings even if they are not what we are supposed to be feeling for proper DBing. When we share our stories they are from one person's perspective. So, when an interaction sounds counterproductive to what your supposed goal is, it only stands that helpful people will call you out. We are all here because we want to save our marriages. No?
I for one, am not here for unconditional support. I don't offer it either. It's not productive. I am here for results, not to just feel good regardless of what I'm doing in my sitch.

So, I want to say something about the reasons behind "Validation". Forgive me if you think you know this. When I read about your interactions with your W, I wonder if you grasp the why.

Validation is IMO, is a way to:

[*]Lower or remove pressure for WW/WAW
[*]End any Fight or Flight dynamic, which hinders any rational thinking on their part.
[*]Let's W know that you are emotionally there for them. The cause of most MR problems in the first place.
[*]Helps W feel like you are listening and that their feelings are understood and are a priority to you.
[*]Helps better prepare us to respond and not react when we hear threatening stuff.

It's not just something to check off the list, yet at first, it needs to be intentional.

LW, Make this woman believe that if she were to explore coming back, that the waters are friendly. That her thoughts and feelings mater. That you care about her happiness. That you have changed.

Otherwise, just be done with it.

Your conditions will have to be covered latter during recon. Hope this helps.
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/04/18 02:40 PM
RR17, I make sure to read your feedback whenever you write on LWs threads. And I fully buy into the fact that we are here not for unconditional support but to actually get feedback based on our behaviors to our ever evolving sitches. We all know we support each other and understand the pain like nobody else can, but what makes this forum more valuable is the 2x4s we get. It may or may not be applicable to LW, he is the better judge of his own sitch, but there are a lot of us out here who still read and follow sitches and absorb the advise that could be applicable to us as well. LW, thanks for posting about your continued journey and RR17 please know you are helping more LBSs than just LW.
RR,Nicole, Rose, Toe, Davide, Steve85 and Sia, Thank you for all your kind word and support and valued opinions.

I have been working at my new job and it is taking up a lot of my time. My new boss seems to be a good guy but often blows a fuse quite easily so I'm trying to get up to speed quickly . I apologize that I have not been on here as much to interact but also to return the love and support that I feel from all of you. Know that you are all in my daily prayers.

RR and Rose first and foremost thank you for your continued interest and support. As hard as it is to take, the 2X4 are what is needed. It has been a blessing to have you on my side. Your comments often ring truth. It is true that you are only getting one side and so you need to base your comments based upon facts you are given.

I read your input on validation and fully agree with what you said . I am actively using these techniques at home and at work and have a long way to go. In my last interaction with W- I went into it with no expectation. We did our usual thing- I tried to validate where I could. I also found that this time there was the most communication that we had in a long time talking about my job, S. No talks about R but just day to day stuff. I also found it a little more relaxed and maybe that is why there was more communication. There was even more friendly joking involved.

Where my head is now is that I don't have feelings of love or euphoria for my W. I do not know what I want. She strikes me as just the mother of my child. If I were to be looking to actively date at this time she would not get my attention at all. I'm not sure what I want to do BUT I do want to honor my vows and the covenant that I made along with my desire to have a family. For my S sake- I need to do what is best because I don't want to R only to have him crumble again. This is the second M my W has walked away from. I can say I care for her well being but my heart does not go a flutter when she is in my presence. I'm just focused on getting me and S and how to get better.

On a good note I last nite I went to see S play in the band for his schools awards night. He asked that I not reach out to W so she was absent. It was a VERY proud moment when he was called up for the honor roll even though he had such a rough time last year after BD. Gonna spend this weekend to celebrate with him.

For all of you out there. It is hard work- a constant struggle. Making you doubt who you are what you stand for. Stay positive and know I am with you all in Love and prayers- Blessings!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/05/18 01:04 PM
Feelings change.

And we all have a right to be angry. But holding on to anger is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to suffer. Are you still angry?

It wouldn't be healthy to feel as you said "flutters" at this time. Feelings change.

Besides if you attract her back you. Notice I said to attract and not to pressure her back, you can at the time decide what you want. Kick her to the crup if you want. But unless you attract her back, you have no chance of any healthy reconciliation. None

Up until this point, as is said in these pages, "W has given you the gift of time". This opportunity won't last forever.

Why not give yourself the opportunity? Not for your son exclusively. A crappy marriage is not what your S needs anyway. Remember S is watching whatever you do.
In all my hours of reading about this stuff, I once read "find any reason to stay". Well, I will add "find any reason to DB." It's not your final decision.

Sia, thank you very much. I appreciated your post and one never know who else is reading. smile
Congrats on the job, Wolf. Hope you're doing good...
LW, congrats on the new job and your S's success in school too!
I'm curious about your son's request that you not contact his mom about the awards ceremony.

Was it like this:

Son: Dad, I'm playing at the awards ceremony. Don't tell Mom.

?

Or was it like this:

Son: I'm playing in the awards ceremony.
LW: Great! Do you want me to tell your Mom?
Son: No.

?
mtb, equalzr, -It is a new job but I am up for the challenge! thank you for your kind words I hope you both are doing well, sorry I have not posted in your threads lately but I do check sporadically. Know that I share your journey and pray that you both find peace.

I'm curious about your son's request that you not contact his mom about the awards ceremony.

Rose I'm always thankful for you giving me a females perspective. S used the first statement and mentioned not to tell mom. The conversation ended there. I do wish she were there because it was such a PROUD moment -after seeing him so broken after DB - missing school and almost failing a class and to be able to stand among all these wonderful students overcoming adversity.

And we all have a right to be angry. But holding on to anger is like swallowing poison and expecting the other person to suffer. Are you still angry?

RR- First and foremost-THANK YOU! I often feel you come at me hard. It is these 2X4s that really make me look deep within trying to sift through the substance of my being. It allows me challenge my actions, words and values. Am I still angry? Yes- at times I am. Sometimes these feelings come and go. Sometimes the stay and fester. It is these extended periods where I feel she has hurt me to the core. Where I feel that she betrayed me - on a level farther than I can explain. I feel she use the bait and switch technique- coming to my church then persuing me and then all of a sudden she is some one I don't know. I don't know if she still goes to church but I think she is still tied up in this new age religion BS. I know- let her go and remove her from my head space but I feel as if I gave her the best years of my life. Now I know I sound like I'm playing the victim card and I know it is not healthy. I too am well aware that after BD- this could very well be the BEST years of my life but is it up to me to make that happen.

The phrase the you gave earlier about swallowing poison and anger is the same phrase that I used early in my thread about FORGIVENESS. Psychologists generally define forgiveness as a conscious, deliberate decision to release feelings of resentment or vengeance toward a person or group who has harmed you, regardless of whether they actually deserve your forgiveness. This is the essence of my belief and value system. It is said in my daily prayer. It is by following in the footsteps of Christ we not only become happy but even better we become more holy ( whole-ly). It is almost a year since BD and I still cycle between good and bad days. My IC said to read the book - The art of Forgiveness. He also said I will be hard pressed to find or nurture love in my heart if anger lives there. He says it is OK to be angry it is one of the steps to healing but you must try to positively channel that energy. This is what I use at the gym or when I am cycling. RR- you are absolutely right that I must let go of my anger and fully forgive. I am not there yet but will try to steadily work towards it. And maybe once attained I will be able to find PEACE.

Again- I am amazed by the love and support from the vast amount of strangers that come and read and offer advice. And as an act of Love - You leave some kind words, offer support and create an internal bond -leave a lasting impression.( You guys know who you are). I feel it is like I am in a hospital bed and out of the kindness of your heart - you poke your head into my room- sit at my bedside and offer me Love, Hope and Support without judgement or knowing who I am. For this I am truly grateful.

With you in Love and prayers- Blessings!
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/06/18 01:03 PM
Dear LW, I am glad you landed the new job and are living up to the challenges it presents. God only knows how fragile our emotional state is but a change as significant as this is cathartic in my opinion. It offers a platform to invest yourself mentally. I am also happy to hear of your S's successes. I am not just a new DBer, as you know I am relatively an inexperienced parent as well. My oldest is only 3.5 so I have so much to experience and learn in that realm.
On reading your post I asked myself what I should do if there is something about my D that makes me proud, the answer was I should share it with her other parent. Mind you, I am not doing that at all right now, I am acting like he should lose out on all such moments as well because it was his decision to leave the family. But I think I have to work on changing that on my side, he wronged me but he still is the father of my precious Ds. I should not punish him by taking away from the moments of happiness that our children will provide. He deserves that experience too.
I will let the other more experienced parents weigh in on if you should have included your WAW in your S's performance. At that age I am not sure if you should ask him to open his heart to his mother so she can experience the joy of seeing him shine too. Maybe that will show him that you are yourself opening your heart and showing forgiveness.
But I thank you for sharing this and letting me apply this to my own sitch, I should work on being a better co-parent.
Have a wonderful weekend and celebrate your Ss success, hugs.
Congrats on new job and S!

I agree with Sia, your S needs her mother too, even if he doesnít acknowledge. Donít be a barrier there, be a bond.

Moving forward LW, stay strong!
I'm very glad you didn't prompt him to reject his mother.

I think the appropriate response to your son is, "I understand why you say that, but she is your mother and deserves the chance to be there."

How would you respond if your son were mad at his mother and the two of you were still living together? You wouldn't keep the awards ceremony secret from her.

You and your wife were together for 20 years. She didn't do a bait and switch, she grew and changed.
I really like the advice youre getting here LW, Im sorry I havent posted much but I have been keeping up. I cant add anything, RR and Rose are giving you great guidance. Congrats on the job, I understand the relief that must bring but yet the worry about having enough hours in a day to keep up personal changes like diet, exercise and meditation. Its a balancing act for sure!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/06/18 06:41 PM
LW, I get the resentment. I really do. I believe we all do. I also see the value in moving past it. Will it ever completely go away? IDK. I still have days where suspicion and resentment show their ugly heads. These days are fewer and farther between. Why? I believe time plays a role but so does the changes in my sitch. As Rose has pointed out in my sitch, actions speak louder than words.

These WW/WAWs take a lot out of us. They might also even save us from ourselves, too. Think about the good that has come from your sitch. You've lost how much weight? Grown closer to S. Recharged your self-esteem. These changes are huge. I believe you are exploring addressing your Control issues. BTW, I had/have them too. I keep saying: We must learn to love in such a way that the other person feels free. I believe this has been my biggest lesson. I see it in other's relationships all the time. Detachment is the way.

I'm glad that you see value in my words. I'm not one to hand out participation awards. IMO, they are not only unhelpful, but they are also hurtful. If I seem hard it is because I see the urgency. I also see a change in your W. Show her a way back and you will have control. When she sees you as an attractive option, a changed person, then you will see changes in her. Then and only then will you be in a place where any flutters will return. At that time you will be in a place where you can decide how you want to proceed. There will still be much work to be done.
I think the appropriate response to your son is, "I understand why you say that, but she is your mother and deserves the chance to be there."

Rose - that is a great validating statement - unfortunately any time I bring up W - S is quick to shoot down all suggestions including W and then quickly follows up with "I don't want to talk about it!" What am I to do ? I do not want to jeopardize my R with S. He trusts me to respect his requests. I don't want to loose what i have with him.

We went to church today - Today's Thanksgiving sermon was about family and how God hates divorce. After listening of all that God wants from us and about his unconditional LOVE- I kinda got emotional but managed to keep it together. I want to reach out to all who are here and suggest we take a moment to think of all the things that make LIFE better. Be thankful for our health. Thankful for our families- take a moment to hug them extra tight. For our trials and tribulations along with the opportunities that lay ahead. Be mindful of ALL that is good. Enjoy all that make your heart dance. Happy Thanksgiving to you all. We are united in Love and prayers. Blessings!
Itís fine if he doesnít want to talk about it. Thereís nothing more you need to say. Just let him know youíll be telling his mom about public events where he is participating.

This is different from keeping a confidence about, for example, who he is romantically interested in. Keep those confidences.

Right now you are withholding even the sort of information the school notifies home about. Your son is acting immaturely because he is a teenager. You are an adult. Again, what would you do if he were angry at your wife and she still lived at home?

Kids donít always like our parenting decisions, so we canít base our actions on what makes them happy.
Itís fine if he doesnít want to talk about it. Thereís nothing more you need to say. Just let him know youíll be telling his mom about public events where he is participating.

This is different from keeping a confidence about, for example, who he is romantically interested in. Keep those confidences.

Right now you are withholding even the sort of information the school notifies home about. Your son is acting immaturely because he is a teenager. You are an adult. Again, what would you do if he were angry at your wife and she still lived at home?

Kids donít always like our parenting decisions, so we canít base our actions on what makes them happy.


Rose- RR- Neff-Sia and all others-

Please believe me when I say this- I am aware it is best for S and W to have a relationship so that S can remove all the anger he holds within. I acknowledge that I may hold anger still at W. I acknowledge that I need to work on control issues. I have tried on various occasions to initiate and facilitate interactions between W and S.You can see it early in my thread. On one occasion just the fact that she was coming to the house and did not show -this put S into deep anxiety and turmoil- so much -that he had his worst game of baseball. Btw the school never called about the awards night. S just told me was playing at the school for the band for awards night the day it happened and said he would not be home for dinner along with please don't tell mom. W never reaches out to me about daily stuff -she only texts me when she need to come over to do clean up. It is when we are face to face w discuss S. I will not withold information from her about S.

Here's another case- I need to go away for a convention for my new job tomorrow and will return Thursday. I inform S16 about this new job and possible travel that goes with it. I validate that he is a young man and that he feels he does not require supervision. With out bring in up his mom and reiterating that he needs adult supervision I ask him what he feels is a valid solution. He responds I want my favorite aunt ( never married no kids) to stay with me. Now I will not ask W to come over to clean on her own bc I know it makes my sister uneasy bc of our current situation.

My point here is I'm not trying to be "the Disney Dad". I've NEVER swore or cursed about my wife to my S or even better still- to my Ws face. I have not ever said anything bad or slandered her to my S. I think that you may all feel that I am projecting anger towards my W when she is around but I will respectfully disagree because I try to remain upbeat and positive in our interaction. I know I am not perfect - and will always be be under construction. I too try to be mindful and critical about my actions and words. I have along way to go.

RR - you mentioned a sense of urgency. Well it almost a year since BD and her actions and words remain consistent to wanting S and D. In terms of myself - I'm not sure what I want . I assure you being a firm believer I want to honor my vows and covenant. As far as feelings go -they are not there for my W ( feeling do change). As for where I go- I know I must continue on this journey of self. Becoming more mindful and aware of my actions and words. To be more in tune with my emotions and channel the right outlook. And with the grace of God S,W and I will all find peace maybe together maybe separate. Just need to stay positive!

Thanks again for your caring words. Blessings!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/09/18 02:34 AM
LW, I know it is difficult on this forum to separate the sharing of our personal feelings as well as share our actions and interactions with WW.
As for:

Quote
RR - you mentioned a sense of urgency. Well it almost a year since BD and her actions and words remain consistent to wanting S and D...


Remember, believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. WW don't often show their honest feelings. Their feelings also change. From what I am hearing she is still being irrational. Now you know her better than we do, but unless she has always been irrational, she will eventually snap out of it. It will be at this time that you will know her true desires.
thanks RR.

Most of this week I was away at a convention. I came home to S. My sister spoiled him while I was gone. S informs me today that there are parent teacher interviews next week. I respond that I will be going to meet all his teachers and would like him to hear what they have to say. Then I say I will inform W because I am sure she is interested in how he is doing. He says I don't want mom to go. I try to validate by saying I can appreciate that you are angry but I think letting your mom know is the right thing to do and besides she can choose weather to go. S says if mom goes -I'm not going!..My question is what do I do now?
You tell your wife.

If your son chooses not to go, that's his choice. You go anyway.
Originally Posted by Rose888
You tell your wife.

If your son chooses not to go, that's his choice. You go anyway.


^^^^This LW

You must do what is right. She is his mother.
Agree, 100%.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/13/18 02:19 PM
Originally Posted by LoneWlf
thanks RR.

Most of this week I was away at a convention. I came home to S. My sister spoiled him while I was gone. S informs me today that there are parent teacher interviews next week. I respond that I will be going to meet all his teachers and would like him to hear what they have to say. Then I say I will inform W because I am sure she is interested in how he is doing. He says I don't want mom to go. I try to validate by saying I can appreciate that you are angry but I think letting your mom know is the right thing to do and besides she can choose weather to go. S says if mom goes -I'm not going!..My question is what do I do now?


LW, buddy, this shouldn't even be up for debate. Tell mom.
Thank you all for your feedback. I will inform W of interviews. Just a tidbit. I have been GALing by going to the gym and also to the dog park. Well yesterday I was speaking with a nice lady who is a figure skating instructor. We got on the topic of hockey. I said I played pick up many years ago. She said her brothers played semi pro. Anyways she asked me over to her place to watch the hockey game. At this point just a nice lady- I debating weather or not to go. Just to watch the game that is. Another lady at the dog park , again no romantic interest on my part - asked if i was open to go for coffee? Not sure what to do but it does the ego good. LOL. I have to sit and think about it.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/13/18 09:25 PM
It does do the ego good.

It can go a long way toward detachment. I have to ask why your ego needs that type of confirmation.

I for one committed that if I were to become single, I would go a year without dating. Cathartic or whatever, it seems like a prudent idea. If you don't address the emotional luggage that leads to your break up, you are destined to bring it to your next relationship. Happens all the time.
Most LBH reach conclusions upon BD that ultimately make them a better partner. GAL, IMO works to make us centered, autonomous and confident mates. Doing so through confirmation of another W interest is not the same. Much as the dynamic with OM in an affair sitch. It seldom works out well.

Search a church series by Andy Stanley "The New Rules for Love, Sex & Dating"

Hope this helps.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/14/18 01:44 AM
I just ran across this on FB.


"It's my ex-wife's birthday today so I got up early and brought flowers and cards and a gift over for the kids to give her and helped them make her breakfast. Per usual someone asked me why the hell I still do things for her all the time. This annoys me. So ima break it down for you all.

I'm raising two little men. The example I set for how I treat their mom is going to significantly shape how they see and treat women and affect their perception of relationships. I think even more so in my case because we are divorced. So if you aren't modeling good relationship behavior for your kids, get your s%$# together. Rise above it and be an example. This is bigger than you.

Raise good men. Raise strong women. Please. The world needs them, now more than ever."
RR and everyone thanks for the sound advice and support. After letting W know about the parent teacher interviews- wife finally responded by asking what date. His interviews are to occur Thursday this week. Initially W texted me that Thursday was no good that she had plans. I texted her if she planned on going. W responded-If teachers are asking to meet with us then - yes she would go. If not- then just let her know of any concerns. I texted back- Teachers not asking- I plan on going- I will let you know of any concerns. She asked do I have meetings booked already? Can i send her the details - please let her know. I texted- I have sent in my request to meet his teachers.I will let you know. She said thanks.

This is the most we have texted- it just happened now. Timing is good- just got a haircut on the weekend and some new clothes for work. Gonna look good- feel good and project a alpha male mentality with actions not words.

Thank you all- Blessings!
btw- I forgot to add W plans on going.
LW, keep it up! You're an inspiration to us all. You've kept such a good attitude through all of this, I always enjoy reading your updates. This shows that DBing is always successful.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/16/18 01:48 PM
Good to hear LW, sounds like you are heading in the right direction.
Originally Posted by LoneWlf


This is the most we have texted- it just happened now. Timing is good- just got a haircut on the weekend and some new clothes for work. Gonna look good- feel good and project a alpha male mentality with actions not words.


Very nice. Glad to hear about the communication and best of all that you feel good about it. This is a really nice step in the right direction, very proud of you!
LW, keep it up! You're an inspiration to us all. You've kept such a good attitude through all of this, I always enjoy reading your updates. This shows that DBing is always successful.

Thanks Steve if anyone is to be an inspiration -it is you!!!!

Good to hear LW, sounds like you are heading in the right direction.

Thanks RR- I am hoping to continue to heal and grow

Very nice. Glad to hear about the communication and best of all that you feel good about it. This is a really nice step in the right direction, very proud of you!

Thanks H-Yes I feel good communication is progressing- I have a long way to go yet

Thanks all for your kindness and love..
good job LW. keep being the best LW 2.0

stay strong!
toe-thanks for the support.

Just a bit of journaling. I met W today at the school for parent teacher interviews. I went dressed in new clothes - nice haircut -upbeat and positive. W came in dressed in her everyday frumpy clothes. Still no feelings either way. I showed up first but then W came and sat beside me asking questions about work and S. I stayed up beat keeping my answers brief and positive and throwing in a joke or 2 occasionally. The first classroom was on the main floor. S had an 83% avg so far- teacher said S is a good student. 2nd classroom was upstairs - so we get to the stairs and i jog up while I look back and see W labor up the stairs. Looks like she is not taking care of herself. Teacher said S is maintaining a 82% avg but has failed to hand in home work 3 out of 4 times. Last classroom is on the main floor so we head to the staircase. W says "are you gonna show off again by running down the stairs?". With a big grin I said jokingly ,"I can appreciate that you are getting old but it is too bad you can no longer keep up with this guy!" and off I went. The last teacher said S avg in his class was 97% said that S was a model student and encouraged S to join a after school club to utilize his skill and knowledge. One thing to note. While speaking with all Ss teachers W asks each teacher to keep an eye on S for any odd behavior because we are separated. She mentions it almost like she flaunting it as a badge of some accomplishment. It may be out of concern but somehow it did not sound like that to me. At the final exit I run into a kid I coached this year on my Ss baseball team and his single mom. Mom comes to give me a hug and thanks me for doing a great job coaching the boys to the semi finals.W is just behind me while this is happening. I left W feeling good that I portrayed a confident alpha male. I spoke to S about how proud I am of him and his marks and encourage him continue but focus on homework completion. Again I feel good and positive about my interaction with W. Still feelings of blah in terms of attraction to her. Anyways my journey to a better me continues. Stay positive- stay well!!
Originally Posted by LoneWlf
toe-thanks for the support.

Just a bit of journaling. I met W today at the school for parent teacher interviews. I went dressed in new clothes - nice haircut -upbeat and positive. W came in dressed in her everyday frumpy clothes. Still no feelings either way. I showed up first but then W came and sat beside me asking questions about work and S. I stayed up beat keeping my answers brief and positive and throwing in a joke or 2 occasionally. The first classroom was on the main floor. S had an 83% avg so far- teacher said S is a good student. 2nd classroom was upstairs - so we get to the stairs and i jog up while I look back and see W labor up the stairs. Looks like she is not taking care of herself. Teacher said S is maintaining a 82% avg but has failed to hand in home work 3 out of 4 times. Last classroom is on the main floor so we head to the staircase. W says "are you gonna show off again by running down the stairs?". With a big grin I said jokingly ,"I can appreciate that you are getting old but it is too bad you can no longer keep up with this guy!" and off I went. The last teacher said S avg in his class was 97% said that S was a model student and encouraged S to join a after school club to utilize his skill and knowledge. One thing to note. While speaking with all Ss teachers W asks each teacher to keep an eye on S for any odd behavior because we are separated. She mentions it almost like she flaunting it as a badge of some accomplishment. It may be out of concern but somehow it did not sound like that to me. At the final exit I run into a kid I coached this year on my Ss baseball team and his single mom. Mom comes to give me a hug and thanks me for doing a great job coaching the boys to the semi finals.W is just behind me while this is happening. I left W feeling good that I portrayed a confident alpha male. I spoke to S about how proud I am of him and his marks and encourage him continue but focus on homework completion. Again I feel good and positive about my interaction with W. Still feelings of blah in terms of attraction to her. Anyways my journey to a better me continues. Stay positive- stay well!!


I'm curious about this exchange (in bold). What motivated your response?
What's up, Wolf? I agree with what you said about your W making the comments about being separated. It's one thing to ask if there has been any odd behavior, but to add the separation thing is weird. Sounds like you're doing good. Keep it up!!...
LW, it sounds like something about your post struck Rose odd, and I have to admit it does me too. These quotes in particular:

Originally Posted by LoneWlf
I went dressed in new clothes - nice haircut -upbeat and positive. W came in dressed in her everyday frumpy clothes.


It's great that you showed up looking your best. But it's a school event so it's hardly a surprise she showed up in casual wear. There's this odd "holier than thou" vibe about how you said that. Or maybe a "I'm convincing myself I don't need her" vibe. Not sure what it is but it sounds a little off.

Quote
W says "are you gonna show off again by running down the stairs?". With a big grin I said jokingly ,"I can appreciate that you are getting old but it is too bad you can no longer keep up with this guy!" and off I went.


There it is again. First of all the "getting old" comment is passive/aggressive, the very thing warned against in NMMNG. Hiding behind a joking manner. Sarcasm. Then that same "holier than thou" thing with running down the stairs. I fully expect you to say "oh I was just kidding and she knew it" which is EXACTLY what a NG would say to something like that. So think about that, what was your motivation, why did you do it, how do you think it made W feel. We're not trying to beat you up, we're just here to listen to you, point things out, help you tweak your approach.

Quote
While speaking with all Ss teachers W asks each teacher to keep an eye on S for any odd behavior because we are separated. She mentions it almost like she flaunting it as a badge of some accomplishment.


You don't really know why she said it, and it's best not to expend too much energy trying to figure it out. Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.

Anyway I think you're on the right track, I just think you're still spending too much time trying to impress her or figure out what she's thinking. Do stuff for you and let the chips fall where they may.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/19/18 07:03 PM
A confident Alpha male doesn't act passive-aggressive.

A confident Alpha male doesn't show off.

I'm sure the W feels out of control as well as nervous telling that you two are separated. I imagine telling the teachers helps her feel involved.

It's difficult. Stay strong. God bless.
Thank you all for your valued opinions- will try and explain my actions and thoughts the best I can

W says "are you gonna show off again by running down the stairs?". With a big grin I said jokingly ,"I can appreciate that you are getting old but it is too bad you can no longer keep up with this guy!" and off I went.

My thought here was to indicate to her that I am moving forward no matter what- even if I have to leave her behind

I went dressed in new clothes - nice haircut -upbeat and positive. W came in dressed in her everyday frumpy clothes.

I used to work in a warehouse- and now since I've lost close to 60 lbs I need new clothes. I work in an office now and had to dress accordingly. I honestly put on some new nice clothes for work but also to look good to W it also feels good to be nicely presentable. When I leave the house now I try to dress decently. Before it was track pants and t shirts (another one of mt 180s) I feel as if W just puts on old unattractive attire with a boyish haircut - with her grey hair with no style done. This makes me feel she let herself go.

While speaking with all Ss teachers W asks each teacher to keep an eye on S for any odd behavior because we are separated. She mentions it almost like she flaunting it as a badge of some accomplishment.

Here I feel she could of easily presented it as- Has S been acting out of sorts or even odd at times? I would tend to leave it at that. If the teachers say yes -S is being belligerant or withdrawn or something out of the ordinary then I feel it would be necessary to bring up the separation. Otherwise just let it be.

I can say that my intent was simply to look nice and presentable act upbeat and positive and portray someone that is content and moving forward. My intent was not to belittle or to present myself holier than thou. I appreciate the 2X4s and may need to refine my approach for the next interactions. Thank you all for your honest opinions.
I wouldn't worry about showing her you are moving forward. People who are truly moving forward don't care who notices, so the fact that you are trying hard to show it actually negates the message you are trying to send.

Also, about her telling the teachers that you are separated, I wouldn't read too much into it. It's pretty standard parenting practice to tell teachers when the family is going through a separation or divorce. Teachers usually appreciate that sort of information.
HI Lonewlf, it's nice to hear that you were able to present yourself so well at the teacher conferences. I'm sure your wife notices and it must be a good feeling to know that you're being the best version of yourself that you can be. I don't remember the reasons why your wife left you. If she's depressed then perhaps your progress won't impress her because she's still not feeling good about herself. If she found another many then maybe she has both guilt and loyalty to the other man. Otherwise you sound like a great catch and she should try to get you back before it's too late!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/28/18 07:44 PM
LoneWlf , been thinking about you and your sitch.

Hope you are busy GAL etc.
Thank you all for your continued support. All of you have helped me thru this difficult journey.

I wouldn't worry about showing her you are moving forward. People who are truly moving forward don't care who notices, so the fact that you are trying hard to show it actually negates the message you are trying to send.

Rose - thank you for the 2X$4 you are right! - what others think should be irrelevant as long as I feel right about it myself thanks.

HI Lonewlf, it's nice to hear that you were able to present yourself so well at the teacher conferences. I'm sure your wife notices and it must be a good feeling to know that you're being the best version of yourself that you can be. I don't remember the reasons why your wife left you. If she's depressed then perhaps your progress won't impress her because she's still not feeling good about herself. If she found another many then maybe she has both guilt and loyalty to the other man. Otherwise you sound like a great catch and she should try to get you back before it's too late!

Thanks Nic - I make a conscious effort to be presentable. When I was 60 lbs heavier -I really did not take care of myself and did not really care. Now that I have put in the work - I can say I like the new me and dress accordingly. My wife left me because she said I was too controlling and I was unmotivated ( I was working 10 hour shifts with bone spurs in my joints had surgery to get them removed only to have the pain come back. Tried to remedy it with orthotics, braces , boots, my only other option was to fuse the joints which I refused ) I can see that I was in a lot of pain not very pleasant to be around and not helping much around the house. Now I go to the gym or exercise almost every day and and mindful of my actions and words. My W has found interest in this New Age religion fostered by her older sister ( whos been in 7 different relationships since I have been with W) W is fascinated with Reiki - Healing crystals , talking with spirits and the dead, and all that the church looks down on. As I said before if my choice is between God and W. There is no choice. Nic- thank you so much for your kind words.

RR- Thanks for checking in on me. As always you have my back!

Work has been hectic - trying to learn a new job and being asked to implement some new procedures and clean up somethings that are pretty big always keep me busy. S is doing pretty good in that he has not missed a day of school .I had an interaction with W this week where she came over to clean up. I came from work a little late so I had to eat while she started on her own. S pretty much stayed out of her way and she did not initiate any contact. At one point she had asked me to keep her posted as to what S is doing . I replied I will do my part to keep her informed of all pertinent information but she should reach out to him to try to rebuild that relationship. She responded with a really sad expression saying- I don't know what to do but it will have to be like this for now. I validated by saying I can understand that it may be confusing dealing with a teenager just let me know what I can do to help. She said thanks. Other than that the interaction was cordial. No friction - no sparks no R talks.
At church - the homily was about how Jesus helped the blind man to see. In one of the readings it mentioned how He brings the waywards back. This caught my attention because a couple times this week as we say prayers my S would pray. we pray for mom that you protect and guide her and that you open her eyes to see the goodness in family.

After church my sister invited me and s over to her place for dinner. We had a good dinner and on the way home. S says - hey dad with the money I earned over the summer I'd like to upgrade my cpu video card and get a new iphone. I said to him do you know what a new iphone cost? He said I won't get the latest model one that is a couple years old. I said to him in a calm voice- this is your money but you need to look at how to spend it wisely- wasn't it you that told me that you were not interested in the new iphone and that you wanted your family more than the phone- have your priorities changed?. He said - well it doesn't look like I'm going to get my family together. I simply responded by saying there are things in life that we have to accept - it may not have been our choice but we must still accept and do your best to keep going forward. He said I'm going to write mom a letter and give her one more chance. I said to him - as long as you are respectful and not intentionally hurt yourself and others , I will fully support and love you - no matter what! He said thanks Dad!. When we got home he said he wanted to show me how his reflexes have improved with the computer accessory that I recently got him> he asked me to try it- to which I failed horribly. He was at 98% while I was at 16%. spent the rest of the night hanging out and playing with him.

Than you all for your love and prayers! Blessings!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/29/18 01:41 PM
This ^^^ all sound sounds wonderful. None of us are perfect all of the time. That is why we are here and have each other. But this post from you shows that Gods work has paid off.

I'm sure you will mitigate but I hope that S's letter is not worded in a threatening way with the "one more chance".
Teens do and say things that lack experience and wisdom. Just maybe help him not come across as issuing an ultimatum.

LW, I am far from perfect on my walk, but hear me out.
Perhaps God has used all the conditions in your sitch to teach you about your past controlling ways. All of it. The lack of attraction may be for your benefit to aid in detaching, to work on you. These feelings can change when the time is right.
Perhaps the Lord will use your S to restore your family. You have to wonder about how much pain your W must have been in to even temporarily abandon her S. No, I'm not taking her side. I side with the MR. Why else would God take so much control away from you?
I can't help but think when you are ready, all this could come back together.
RR, that's an interesting perspective for LoneWlf to think about, but there is one area--religion--in which he is maintaining his controlling ways.

I believe he said that in order for him to let his wife return, she would have to return to orthodox Catholicism, and abandon her new spiritual beliefs. That is a huge degree of control.

Unless he can get to the point where he accepts that his wife's religious beliefs are between her and God, it probably isn't good for them to reconcile.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/30/18 03:22 AM
Of course, it is all speculation.

But I believe that his W is running away from all thing LW. This includes the one and only true God. All this crystal new age garbage is a mear rebellion.

God uses our pain to heal that pain. This "control issue" may well be a symptom of an early life injury. Many on here use NGS to hide from their injury. Bottom line is they are not fulfilling their God given Masculinity. Ws don't like it either. In short, in order for her to expose her true Feminity, she must feel this masculinity. DBing is in large part all about this.

I imagine that LW wouldn't stay with a non-christian W. Period. IMO, this is more of a boundary then a control.

Given time and progress, nothing is out of the question.
Perhaps God has used all the conditions in your sitch to teach you about your past controlling ways. All of it. The lack of attraction may be for your benefit to aid in detaching, to work on you. These feelings can change when the time is right.
Perhaps the Lord will use your S to restore your family. You have to wonder about how much pain your W must have been in to even temporarily abandon her S. No, I'm not taking her side. I side with the MR. Why else would God take so much control away from you?
I can't help but think when you are ready, all this could come back together.


RR-( as always Thank you !) You may be totally correct that God is teaching me a lesson and I am open to that . The lack of attraction I never really thought of it as such but you present an interesting angle. As you said things can and will change- nothing is permanent. The pain that my W feels I cannot speak on her behalf but in all our interactions- except for breaking down in front on my Ss therapist the one time- she has pretty much kept it together. For me the pain would be unbearable and I've said this before- it would amount in a slow death. Weather God uses S to restore my family I don't know. At this point I'm not sure if I want my W back. I'm not sure if she can overcome my broken feelings of trust and betrayal. i'm not sure if W is willing to put in the work to heal and grow so far she has been steadfast in her actions and words of wanting an S and a D. I'm not sure how I feel but will always look to further improve my heath and well being. Primarily for me but also for S.

but there is one area--religion--in which he is maintaining his controlling ways.

Unless he can get to the point where he accepts that his wife's religious beliefs are between her and God, it probably isn't good for them to reconcile.



Rose- Thank you for your point of view it is much appreciated. I have read here often that we must live by our values and beliefs. This is the essence of my being. This gives life a purpose- to love and serve. This is the core of who I believe I am. As a matter of fact My W met me at the church and persued me and told me she fell in love with this individual. I too feel that this M failed because I may have temporarily lost my focus on God and put W on a pedestal. Speaking to my priest friend he thinks W is using this new age religion to fill a void and add excitement that she was missing in our R. I appreciate how you can feel that it is control but to me this is a deal breaker. I will not be with someone or have someone practice and expose myself and S to pagan rituals and values. Not control but belief! I will not compromise my beliefs not for anybody.

Thank you all for helping me to heal and grow!! Blessings!
Originally Posted by Rose888

I believe he said that in order for him to let his wife return, she would have to return to orthodox Catholicism, and abandon her new spiritual beliefs. That is a huge degree of control.


I disagree 100% with this. This, in my opinion, is a boundary. One that LW is entitled to draw if it is important to him. In fact, I think we would all agree that we all have a similar boundaries. For instance, most people would draw the line if their WAS went off to become a member of a cult. Or of a Satan worshipping sect. Or maybe even a group that believed in and held animal sacrifices. So we all have a religious boundary we would draw, and it is up to each individual to draw that. One of the more common ones today is when two atheists are married, and then one finds religion later. Sometimes that is a boundary for the atheistic spouse that they can't tolerate.

So if one of Lone's conditions for future R is that she give up this new age religion and return to their original chosen faith, I do not see how anyone could tell him that is wrong.
Originally Posted by LoneWlf

but there is one area--religion--in which he is maintaining his controlling ways.

Unless he can get to the point where he accepts that his wife's religious beliefs are between her and God, it probably isn't good for them to reconcile.



Rose- Thank you for your point of view it is much appreciated. I have read here often that we must live by our values and beliefs. This is the essence of my being. This gives life a purpose- to love and serve. This is the core of who I believe I am. As a matter of fact My W met me at the church and persued me and told me she fell in love with this individual. I too feel that this M failed because I may have temporarily lost my focus on God and put W on a pedestal. Speaking to my priest friend he thinks W is using this new age religion to fill a void and add excitement that she was missing in our R. I appreciate how you can feel that it is control but to me this is a deal breaker. I will not be with someone or have someone practice and expose myself and S to pagan rituals and values. Not control but belief! I will not compromise my beliefs not for anybody.

Thank you all for helping me to heal and grow!! Blessings!





Well stated sir. One of the Bibles teachings is that we must love Christ more than wife, children, parents, siblings, etc.... (Some do not like the KJV of this passage because it is worded "Anyone that cometh to me and hate not mother and father...etc). But the point is that Christ is first in our lives above everyone else. Non-Christians may not understand that because they think in terms of the here and now, not the next life. Principles are of the utmost importance, no matter what those principles cost us. I admire this about you LW above all else (and there is plenty to be admired!).
My personal experience definitely influences my thinking on this. Iím the child of a marriage where one partner became a believer after marriage and I am in a marriage where a believer became an unbeliever. (I am skipping a lot of nuance here.)

I firmly believe no one should be coerced to profess any religious belief under threat of divorce.

I also think 1 Corinthians 7 is the most applicable scripture for marriages where one spouse changes belief.

But I can see how others view it differently.
Originally Posted by Rose888
My personal experience definitely influences my thinking on this. Iím the child of a marriage where one partner became a believer after marriage and I am in a marriage where a believer became an unbeliever. (I am skipping a lot of nuance here.)

I firmly believe no one should be coerced to profess any religious belief under threat of divorce.

I also think 1 Corinthians 7 is the most applicable scripture for marriages where one spouse changes belief.

But I can see how others view it differently.


Been a while since I studied I Cor 7, but I believe the bulk of that is centered around the experience with your parents, where one became a believer after marriage. And I Cor 7 is mostly from the perspective of the of believer and what they should do in relation to their unbelieving spouse. I do not think from recollection that I Cor. 7 is talking about the situation where both were believers, and then one becomes an unbeliever.

Obviously in the first case, I Cor 7 says the new believer shouldn't leave the unbeliever, but it does say if the unbeliever leaves then let them go. (DBing in the 1st century!)

But what about that Lone's case? Where the believing spouse becomes an unbeliever and leaves? I am not sure I Cor 7 is dealing with that instance. However, Rose, I see where you are coming from and reasonable people can obviously disagree on this. I hope you didn't think my disagreement came across as harsh, it wasn't intended to. I think your perspective on this is very refreshing, and this is a healthy discussion considering lone's unique circumstances.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 10/30/18 02:46 PM
Interpretation of scripture can be a real distraction here. IMO

LV, came here to avoid D and R his marriage. Things change. But as has been revealed many many times here, the prudent application of DB methods will benefit the LBS regardless of how the MR turns out.
Without attracting the WW/WAW back, he will not even have the choice to accept W back.

That will be his choice.
RR- Rose- many thanks for your valued input- we may differ opinion at times but we are similar in our love and respect for one another.

One of the Bibles teachings is that we must love Christ more than wife, children, parents, siblings, etc.... (Some do not like the KJV of this passage because it is worded "Anyone that cometh to me and hate not mother and father...etc). But the point is that Christ is first in our lives above everyone else. Non-Christians may not understand that because they think in terms of the here and now, not the next life. Principles are of the utmost importance, no matter what those principles cost us. I admire this about you LW above all else (and there is plenty to be admired!).

Steve thank you - I feel you speak of great wisdom and are willing to share your many blessings. You are greatly admired by myself and all that come here. You my friend are a beacon of God's light.

Having done a lot of thinking -my feeling is that loosing God is the primary reason marriages fail today . In today' s world the simple focus is one self. What about me? What about my happiness? Do what makes you happy .. I am the victim ...I need to only worry about me. The concept of instant gratification - How can I make me more happier? Who is to blame for my misery? In our attempt to reach for happiness and to get from point A to point B in the quickest amount(instant gratification) of time we must point blame on the people or the situation surrounding us.

What we should be doing instead of looking to be happy is to look to be holy. To be more Christ like. If we focus on God and his teachings than we should not fail. If we are constantly chasing happiness. A bigger home, a new, car a better spouse. The riches of the world can make life easier- but you are chasing false idols. If your focus is on God - then as God commanded - you are to be an apostle - a messenger of God and you are to Love unconditionally. To be slow to anger and quick to extend graces. To serve with an open heart- In His own words -Love one another as I have loved you. Look at the beatitudes and how beautiful a message it conveys. Using this as a compass to navigate through life's difficult journey can only give you happiness.

I am not here to present a holier than thou perspective- this is what I choose to believe and respect others views. The bible can be interpreted many ways. It is up to us to live by our code of morals ethics and beliefs.

With love and prayers to you all- Blessings!
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by Rose888

I believe he said that in order for him to let his wife return, she would have to return to orthodox Catholicism, and abandon her new spiritual beliefs. That is a huge degree of control.


I disagree 100% with this. This, in my opinion, is a boundary. One that LW is entitled to draw if it is important to him. In fact, I think we would all agree that we all have a similar boundaries. For instance, most people would draw the line if their WAS went off to become a member of a cult. Or of a Satan worshipping sect. Or maybe even a group that believed in and held animal sacrifices. So we all have a religious boundary we would draw, and it is up to each individual to draw that. One of the more common ones today is when two atheists are married, and then one finds religion later. Sometimes that is a boundary for the atheistic spouse that they can't tolerate.

So if one of Lone's conditions for future R is that she give up this new age religion and return to their original chosen faith, I do not see how anyone could tell him that is wrong.


Well I am of the opinion that you are both right. It absolutely is control and manipulation to demand someone follows the same religion as you in order to "stay married". But, if that is important to him then it is his right to demand that. Personally I find it highly amusing that people of certain faiths (particularly Christian) are so convinced that theirs is the only "right" one and have so little tolerance for other faiths when Jesus himself detested religion and was a very vocal opponent of religion. So what did people do? Built multiple entire religions around his rebellion against religion, LOL! The most spiritually engaged, peaceful, loving people I've known were not at all religious, but seemed to have the best grasp of how Jesus wanted us to live.
Thanks you all for your most valued opinions. Just a bit of journaling.

S16 has been doing great by not missing a day of school so far this year! Where he has regressed is his ability to jump start his day often times waking up 30 minutes after his alarm. I posed a simple question to him by asking- How can WE work together so that you are able to get up on time to be able to do your chores( breakfast/feed dog /walk dog/ be ready for school) and not be late? S suggested that he go into the gym with me at 5 in the morning. With a smile on my face I said- I think that is a great idea! Please understand this requires discipline and commitment are you willing to give that? He said yes I'm in.
So today I got up said my prayers had my protein shake and headed out for an hour and 45 minute bike ride. I came home to have a coffee and small bite. I needed to head into the gym to upgrade my membership so that S could come with me and start training- it is cheaper than getting him his own membership. I asked him if he wanted to start today - he said no thanks I'll start Monday. So I head on in the gym it is now 9:30 am. Since my new job is behind a desk and I have limited movements I have been going to the gym at 5 am - so far I have only missed 2 days of working out. Before the job , I would go in for about 9am after I would drop S off at school. So I get to the gym today about the same time as I used to before my job. 3 ladies that would work out regularly come up to greet me - asking where I've been? Now these ladies would come to me during my work outs to chat or to ask for training advice. I said i started a new job and would come in a lot earlier. The one lady looks at me and says- Wow look at you! - you look amazing! the other one says- it looks like you have continued to train but even harder because it looks like you've bulked up more cuz your muscles look even bigger! Now I could not get the smile off my face- but I said you guys just made my day! I will have this smile for the rest of the week! I also met up with a bunch of guys that I would kid around with at the gym and one also commented I look more muscular and asked if i was taking anything. I just said - I'm taking care of me the best I can. I guess I must be doing something right. Anyways what nice feeling ! The rest of the day I will be doing clean up- dog walks, going to the bank and chilling with S.

Tomorrow I have another bike ride- grocery shopping . Church and then meal prep for the week and laundry. Life does not stop for anybody. Know that all you guys are in my daily prayers- Blessings!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 11/14/18 12:31 PM
Just checking in.

I know it is good to step away for a bit. We tend to get what we focus on and too much reading these posts can become daunting.
RR thanks for checking in.

To sum it all up in one word- BUSY. Work has been busy with an upcoming Dec 31st deadline I have taken on 2 projects and it makes for an interesting journey. Not only do I have to learn the new business but I also need to create marketing materials for it. Let's just say things are getting stressful. As for S - last week he had a parent -student University info session which I attended with him. I said I would reach out to W to inform her and asked me to pass on the message for her not to come because if she showed up he would leave. I said out of respect that I would inform her. I texted W and she just texted me to keep her posted. S and I looked at various schools that had good computer science programs. After finding out that the school that he was interested in wanted to see that he was strong in computers individually and as a team- he said that evening that he would join the computer science team and they would compete in competitions in the new year. Another step in the right direction! W asked if she could come over for more cleanup once last week but with my hectic schedule with work/S/ gym and GAL I could not fit her in.

My poor dog last week followed me into the kitchen without me knowing and as I checked on a pressure cooker it overflowed burning my dogs nose , left ear and left shoulder. Poor guy was burned -had blisters on his face in his ear and it got infected. He is on meds now and recovering nicely.

Last Saturday would have been my 17th wedding anniversary. I went to the gym in the morning - heading to the gym I put on some music only to hear a song that I would often play shortly after BD . Steve85- I think you will like this Christian song by Chris August called "Restore" here are beautiful lyrics. As I hear the music I look into the clouds and see the sun start to peek thru the clouds. I took a moment to thank God and went on to a great work out.

Restore- Chris August

Nobody's growing old together, we've made it easy just to quit
Love has become a negative percentage, why do we bother to commit
We've got a long list of excuses, ways we try to justify
Well, I propose to you the truth is, marriage does not have to die
I know you're feeling like itís falling apart and it can't go on anymore
But God is a God who knows how to heal so just give it up to the Lord
And He will restore
He said with this ring I promise, and with I do she said forever
But right now if they're being honest they don't know if they'll stay together
Let's fast forward to the future after struggling on their own
They finally figured out they needed Jesus in the middle
Now I'm watching God rebuild their home
I know you're feeling like itís falling apart and it can't go on anymore
But God is a God who knows how to heal so just give it up to the Lord
And He will restore
The enemy tries to come and divide
Trying to get us to give up the fight
But darkness will always lose out to light
'Cause we've got the power of Christ on our side
I see you growing old together
I pray I find a love like yours
So if you're feeling like itís falling apart and it can't go on anymore
God is a God who knows how to heal so just give it up to the Lord
And He will restore
Like it was before
You may have strayed off course
But He will restore

In the afternoon I went out to have a nice lunch with my S and my sister.

Yesterday W texted me to do some cleanup on the weekend. I said I could not because Saturday S and I were going to a university open house in the morning followed by a family celebration for my nephew after for the rest of the day. Sunday was for church/gym/grocery/ cleanup/ laundry/ meal prep. In her next text she asked about which University we were visiting and that she wanted to complete the clean up process. I responded by validating saying that I could appreciate that she was getting frustrated and wanted to complete the task but unfortunately there is not enough time in the day for me to do everything. I finished by letting her know that I will work with her to finish this up( all done by text) . She has yet to respond.

This is the reason why I am not posting or responding very often. I apologize for those I have not kept in touch with. I will say that I often do think of you all and that you are all in my daily prayers. With Love and prayers!! LW
Glad to hear that your S is facing his future and you been there to support him. Be proud of S LW!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 11/16/18 10:50 AM
That's great LW. Glad you are focused on what you are. Busy is sometimes good. God Bless.
Lonewlf, it's good to hear you've been busy and active. Congratulations on the job! I'm sure your wife has noticed that you're busy nowadays and realizes you're not sitting around waiting for her to return. There must be wheels turning in her head but it's good you're cooperating with her while not letting her slow you down.
Glad to hear that your S is facing his future and you been there to support him. Be proud of S LW!

Thanks Neff- I am so incredibly proud of S!

That's great LW. Glad you are focused on what you are. Busy is sometimes good. God Bless.

RR- thanks again ! I'm doing this for S and I to have an awesome life no matter what!

Lonewlf, it's good to hear you've been busy and active. Congratulations on the job! I'm sure your wife has noticed that you're busy nowadays and realizes you're not sitting around waiting for her to return. There must be wheels turning in her head but it's good you're cooperating with her while not letting her slow you down.

Nic- always good to hear from you. W may notice my lack of time but she has not said or shown any interest in R . I'm not so sure what I want also.

Just want to share with you guys I had an awesome day with my S yesterday. First of all my dog is doing much better on meds to help him overcome the burns and infection so we were able to leave him for a few hours while we went to visit the university. On the way there S and I talked about his keen interest in computers. Different aspects of computers he liked. He then said he wants to specialize in computer security. In other words ethical hacking. He said a guy did a presentation at his school about a job where a company hires you to find ways to hack their site. This way the company then will use this to expose possible entry points and make necessary changes. S said that this guy gets paid big money to do this - sorta like a game. We had a hour and a half drive so we spoke a lot about my new job his school and computers. As we were going to this university my S says you know dad I'm not really interested in going to this school i just want to see what they have. I said - please go with an open mind- the worse that can happen is we walk away with a better understanding of what this school can offer. He said OK I'll do that.

First of all this is a newer uni and does not have the big name prestige of the others Universities S is thinking of applying to. It is also much smaller that the other schools. We get on campus only to be greeted by students. We head over to one building where we think cpu sci is . we find out after talking with students that it is cpu sci but a different field. Students were informative and helpful also pointing out being in smaller size classes being feeling more connected with professors and fellow students. they also point us to the bigger building across campus. We enter a newer building greeted by a lady in admissions telling us about requirements which my son at this point can easily make. She shows us the 4 year program and how it starts with networking then onto securities and possibly co op or internship. She the point us to the new hacking, networking and robotics labs. My S face lit up. we head up the elevators to be greeted by the professor who teaches cpu security course 3rd and 4th year. What an amazing conversation. he first started by asking what my S was interested in. Then he proceeded by explaining the different coursed he could take. He opened up how he really liked that fact how parents would take their kids here as an intro to university. Then he said that this could be the best 4 years of his life and that he was setting the foundation to what was to be the rest of his life and that foundation was only going to be as good as the effort he put forth. He advised my S to really be engaged to put all he had and to step up and connect with the professors. He mentioned that often times he would get calls from BIG corporations , government agencies , banks and other industries looking for upcoming talent. With a smile on his face he said often times kids have real secure jobs lined up before graduating. Then he mentioned several of his students did internships in silicone valley and also abroad in Japan & Malaysia learning and gaining valuable experience while getting paid. S says - hey I can do that! - I said better yet be NIKE- Just do it LOL!!! The prof ended by saying he often meets parents and new students with this puzzled look at first- but he finds it so rewarding when they meet again at graduation this time looking excited and satisfied. He later walked us into the Hacking lab and introduced to a 4th year student who told my S he was accepted to the large name University but choose this one because of greater opportunity. He said he has already been offered a job. He also mentioned class sizes here were like 200-300 as opposed to the larger school were people bring binoculars because there is over 2000 people there. My S checked out the labs - talked with more students some giving him some things he may want to start and research. We stayed for about 3-4 hours.

On the way home my S says I never really thought of going to this school but I'm glad we came here to see it today. he then says I'm gonna tell my buddies at school on Monday maybe one of them come here and we can be roommates. I said I was so proud of him that he was making his future a priority that I would do anything that I could to support and ensure that he is successful. He then said _ I'm gonna try and help out too because I'd like to get a summer job this year. I said you are becoming a very responsible young man - thank you for your efforts. We ended the drive with him asking me to listen to some music he made on his computer with a launch pad. I gotta say - It sounded really cool what he made. I also need to mention that - thru all the s#it that this guy has been thru to see him thrive and want bigger successes makes me happy and hopeful!!!

I just wanted to journal because today I consider this a BIG WIN!!!! Thank you all for your prayers!!!
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 11/19/18 02:50 AM
LW, this was such a great update. What we fail to realize in the thick of things is that our failed MR is just one facet of our life not working out well, there are so many other blessings in all our lives. Your S is doing so well, your support for him is giving him the endurance to push through this and you are drawing your strength in his love for you. How much time is he spending with this mom these days? Does he go live with her on a regular basis?
Hope things shine brighter in your life and all your troubles go away some day.
How much time is he spending with this mom these days? Does he go live with her on a regular basis?

Sia - thanks for you kind words and support. Unfortunately S still refuses to acknowledge his mom. I'm pretty sure she still texts him (he hasn't mentioned it lately). I don't think he responds to her. Aside from the one time he went over to have dinner - he has never asked or mentioned spending time there. I am fully aware that a healthy R with W will help him heal. Again that is when he feels fit and on his timeline. W texts me probably once a week to get updates on S. I try to keep it simple and positive. Next month S will be playing at his Christmas concert- again he requests that W not come. Not much I can do except give him all the love and support I can. Anyways I need to keep my PMA. With Love to all- Blessings!
Thatīs the attitude LW. Stay strong man!
Thanks Neff- I don't think I have posted on your thread but I gotta say you are
I meant to say neff- you are a DB guru-- I don't believe I have seen a negative comment from you - THANK YOU BROTHER!!
Posted By: RR17 Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 11/19/18 12:05 PM

LoneWlf, I get the impression that all you want is to hear is you are doing well. Okay, personally I don't see where that's helpful, but I respect it.
We help each other here man. So we bring our PMA. But be aware that if I have to say something to bring you to earth I will man, I will. Detaching is a process that takes time and involves your PMA. So whether things are going good or wrong, that attitude makes the difference and lets you move forward.

Iīm not a DB guru, in fact Iīm a former wayward husband who had the chance to mend the things. I will always be grateful for having found this forum.
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 11/28/18 05:28 PM

LW, just stopped by to say hi, how are things going for you?
Hello DB family,

Just a bit of journaling. Things remain pretty much the same. Work has been Super busy with the Dec 31st deadline. I'm still working on 2 new projects. The owner my supervisor, has shows signs of instability and a short fuse. While in I was his office he was on speaker with another employee. Emotions quickly escalated between the other employee and my boss and soon there was cussing and swearing. Then my boss says you are fired bring me all the company equipment. I was there to witness this whole debacle. Shortly after this happened the two began to text and made up. apparently from others in the office this has happened many times before. The next day I spoke with my boss . I mentioned that it is his company so that things should be ran as he sees fit. I also mentioned that it is ok to have a different opinion than someone else - at times diversity can strengthen a team. It is ok to be upset with errors or mistake. The I said it is NOT ok to disrespect someone. I then said if he were ever to show me disrespect the conversation ends at that point and i will walk away. If and when he can talk to me like an adult then the conversation will resume. He said he would respect my views and it was good that I brought it up.

Last weekend I went with S to visit my friend the priest that married me and my W. We shared lunch together it was a nice celebration to celebrate Family and friends. S continues to keep plugging away and do well in school.

This past weekend I had a brief interaction with my W she came by the house to go thru the garage and pick up some Christmas decorations. She looks very aged. In the process the conversation was light and cordial. Mostly about how S is doing. She asked about an old typewriter from her aunt that was in the basement so I went to get it. As I came out my dog followed me- funny how this guy is most friendly with EVERYBODY but he just went about his thing and avoided her. She even tried to call him and he would not stop following me. As she was packing her bags she mentioned to me that we need to figure out a separation agreement and the possibility of selling the house. I just validated and said I see you want to complete the process and I will not deter you from what you are doing.- I will also let you know I will not be doing anything because it goes against my morals and values and simply ended the conversation at that.

After mass Sunday we had a brunch to celebrate the beginning of Advent. we have 4 masses on the weekend so a lot of people who know my family did not know I had been separated. When the asked about my W I just told them to pray for my family. I did get a lot of compliments on how well and healthy I looked. One older lady who know my sitch - says such a handsome man with a great boy you will be such a good prize for somebody. I just smiled and said I put it in Gods hands.

For now things are ok. I truly miss my family during this time. It was Christmas time that my W and I met. I even invited her to spend Christmas with my family when she was alone because she was working and her family lived far away. I even tried to make Christmas magical for my family - playing off the Santa themes and going as far as potting carrots cookies and milk out for Santa and his crew. At one point we made secret Santa sparkles that we sprinkled on the lawn only to find half eaten carrots and deer prints there. I truly miss these moments where family becomes the primary focus. I would always really put the fortitude and effort into the gifts just to see that smile or level of excitement or the emotion of WOW! you really know who I am and thought about me. For this year it will be all about my S. I have already bought him a new baseball glove because he needs one . I will also get him some new skates so that we can spend afternoons at the arena or an outdoor rink. No matter what , I will attempt to make this a magical Christmas for him and I to remember and cherish.

Thank you all for your love and support on this extended journey- Blessings!
LoneWolf,

Thanks for the update. It sounds like you are doing well. The holiday season with all its focus on family and the memories it brings can be hard to deal with for anyone who is struggling. However, your focus on making it a special experience for your son is absolutely the right path. As much as the gifts, it is the time that you spend with him that will strengthen the bond and help create new memories.

May the holiday season bring you and your son many blessings!
Thanks for the kind word davide,

I'm home today because I twisted my knee so now I can try and get caught up. I've been finding this Christmas season very hard cycling thru feelings of anger and anxiety. Work is very busy and hectic. I find my S my be feeling the tension that I am projecting. With things at work so busy I having limited time with him - I am also requesting that he do a little more to help around the house. He still tries to spend all his time on his cpu playing online games with his buddies.

The other day I came home from work to see him glued to his cpu while not attending to his chores and his dog. In an angered state I told him I was disappointed in his choice to just play games and to over look his duties. Our rule is do the things you need to get done first. After a heated discussion about his choices and how focusing on his computer with his buddies always gets him in trouble. He says -I need this time to escape this mess I'm in. My game and my buddies are the only place I escape find happiness now. I ask him can he not focus on his chores before getting on his computer? He says he forgets a lot. I asked him to put things in pace to remind him . His phone - the whiteboard by his computer - sticky notes. In tears he says I feel this is all I have now ( my computer - my buddies) , I'm always either always angry or anxious. I reaffirmed as long as we stay angry we will not heal ( I know I need to take my own advice). I also stated that we need to make the choice to be grateful and happy for what we have. We need to accept the situation we are in and make the best of it. I tell him I have seen his efforts not missing school and am very proud of him and his accomplishments. He also told me that he feels a lot of pain in the church and seeing all the families together. I did not know what to say other than validate. I asked him if he wanted to talk with the priest or IC. He said that never does any good - he still feels angry and broken. I may have to force him to go as I do not want anything bad to happen.

He did add that most of his friends are always happy and that the do not do half the chores that he does. My response was do not compare what your friends portray on the outside to what you feel on the inside. Your friends have a different situation than you. they may have larger families that can all pitch in and help around the house. With us it is just you and I and I need your contributions to make this work. Otherwise we may have to sell the house and find something more smaller - and at some point depending on what W wants we may have to sell. He quickly responded I like it here - I will get a part time job if we can keep it. Not sure if we can but i will reach out to a realtor and a mortgage broker if necessary.

Last week my son had a Christmas concert- he plays the sax. He requested his mom not go. He said his mom texted him but he did not respond. I went with my 2 sisters -it was a good night and my S did well. So good to see him interact among his peers. In the intermission I ran into an old childhood friend and his W. They were there to see there daughter a freshman ion the band also. I was the captain of my mens baseball team and this friend played on my team and his W would often come to the games to cheer like my W. Often times we would go to beaches or camping with the base ball gang. Any ways my friend W says I saw your W with your SIL ( my brothers W) at a restaurant last week. It kinda hit me but I just tried to ignore it and keep the convo flowing. After that - I kinda got pit in my stomach. I really need help on detachment.It kinda set me back .

S said yesterday that he wanted me to reach out to W so that he could talk with her and give her one last chance. I said I feel it was a good idea but that he would have o reach out to her himself. I also said it would be good if we could all find forgiveness in our hearts that would help with the healing. I mentioned that it would be good to talk with her regularly and he had my blessing. No matter what she will always be your mother- she may do things you don't like or agree with but she will always be your mother. I said if he wanted me to drive him over there or meet here that I was here to support him and would be here to talk.

I feel sad to not have my family intact during the holidays. It may be depression but I have started to put weight back on 8lbs. I'm not sleeping well and have found out that I get recurring headaches along the back neckline. I may be projecting anger and resentment to S. I need to find my happy place. I need to get back to finding balance. I pray that S and I find peace soon. I know it is a long process and I must do my best to facilitate healing. Sorry for the book just getting caught up.

My prayers are that as God gave us our savior to show us how to LOVE. May we all experience that Love and Peace this Christmas season. Blessings!
LW, prayers for you and your S. I know this is tough. Last Christmas was the worst Christmas of my life. The holiday season has a way of accentuating unhappy feelings.

LW, one techique I've learned, as I was full of resentment and anger before BD, is to always stop in the driveway before coming in the house, saying a prayer. And then preparing myself to be upbeat no matter what I find. Most days my W has spent a lot of time either watching TV, or playing online games on her phone, or singing on the online app. Or a combination thereof. But I remain upbeat. I try to calmly remind my D that her chores aren't done. I've learned to not nag, but set the expectation: if you don't complete this by such-and-such time, I will take your phone for a day.

She protests. Complains. She says the same things your S says. "I forget." "My friends are all I have." "None of my friends have to do chores!" Etc. Set the boundary. Follow through on the consequences. I'd imagine the first time he loses his PC because his chores weren't done he'll start "remembering".
I'll add to Steve's technique: pump yourself up, both arms in the air, yell a little, and smile and laugh. Do that for 2 minutes, it will change your emotional state positively.
Originally Posted by ovrrnbw
I'll add to Steve's technique: pump yourself up, both arms in the air, yell a little, and smile and laugh. Do that for 2 minutes, it will change your emotional state positively.


Pushups, situps, jumping jacks. All work too. Hard to be bitter and resentful when you just exercised a little!
Posted By: sia Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 12/19/18 02:34 AM
Hi LW, I never knew about affirmations before but they are a part of my daily life now. I tell myself sometimes silently at other times out aloud things like Ďevery cell in my body is happyí , ĎI am fully healed in bond and mindí , Ď I am love, I am happiness Ď, you get the gist. All my reading the last few months has shown me that the mind really cannot tell the difference between real happiness versus made up happiness. You send these signals frequently enough to ur brain, the neurons do trigger joy because the message is that you are actually happy. I was sceptic at first but I have experienced that it works quite well. Being a single mom of 2 kids under 4 needs a lot of patience believe me, affirmations have become my mantra
Hugs to you and your S, the next Christmas will be filled with all the joy in the world.
Steve , Sia , Ovr . thanks for the positive words.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas,

Today is Christmas day the first Christmas spent without W. It has been emotionally draining. Before Christmas I saw that S was being sad and withdrawn so I planned to go skating with him on an outdoor skating path around a park. We had some fun but he got a blister because his feet were not use to the second hand skates I got him. After that we went out to brunch and just chilled out. During our conversation he mentions to me how he feels pain going to church because he sees all the families there together especially at Christmas. I validate and agree and encourage him to to do as my friend the priest says, " take all that pressure and and pain and place them at the foot of the cross". and Ask for God to give you strength to remove negativity and anger from our hearts so that it can be once again occupied by Love.

Seeing that he was feeling down - I asked him to take a minute when he got home to think of ALL the things that he was thankful for! I had to work half day I went and picked some drinks and a veggie platter for dinner at my sisters house with all my 6 siblings and most of my nephews and nieces.

S and headed to church for mass. I was given some compliments on how well I looked and was given a lot of well wishes for the season. S and i both served at the mass. I hear a lot of beautiful about S. How he has grown into such a young gentleman in front of their eyes as he has attended church all his life. At the end of mass S will most of the time assist the elderly with their walkers in and out of our small elevator at church. As church concluded an older lady who knows my sitch and has given Zach Christmas presents in the past- approached me and wish me well . With tears in her eyes she said " Please make this the best Christmas for S and let him smile again ". I almost lost it right there. Pulling myself together - I give out hugs and greeting to my church family and head off to get my dog and food to go to my sisters for dinner.


We all sat down said our prayers and while we were eating my sister puts on an old video of Christmas over 20 years ago where I relived Christmas with my Mom / Dad and Grandma and family . As always, there was a lot of joking and joke gifts at the time the whole room was laughing hysterically - I had tears in my eyes and looked over to S and he was laughing hard also. So good to see a belly laugh from him. Had a great meal and then went to the living room where my brother played the guitar and we all sang carols.

Presents got started early this year- all the kids were allowed to open one present first. My brother got the kids all light up ugly Christmas sweaters- Pretty funny! We got them to pose around the in front of the tree( Zoolander pose) and on the spiral staircase Brady bunch style. We had desserts and stayed for a while .

When we got home S asked if he could open his presents - I said you have to wait for Santa to come while you are sleeping LOL. He said I we have no more cookies to leave out for him LOL. So I agreed - I gave him the first present. It was an ornament- Of a Dad polar bear ad 2 cubs. I nicely wrote "Dad" "s name " and my dogs name on each of the bears. On the other side I wrote 2018 together with Love . S said he liked and and hung it on the middle of the tree. He proceeded to open the rest of his gifts along with the stuffed toy and the deer antler for my dog. we played wioth the dog for a bit and then I headed up to change.

I looked on his desk to see his gratitude list. It was about a page long- I noticed his mom was not on the list. when i speak to him about this list I will encourage him to put it on. It is Christmas day now. S is still asleep and my dog is resting next to me. I am thankful for the brief moments that I was able to experience with S where I was able to witness those brief moments of Love and laughter. I am still afraid that anger and hurt are overly present in his heart. I pray that this pain soon ends for him.

Not sure what lies ahead. But my wish for all that are here is for health, happiness , prosperity and peace. May you all find what truly makes your heart dance! Blessings!!
Hi LoneWolf,

Your Christmas with your son sounds really nice. I hope God hears your prayers and answers them. Uncertainty isn't a comfortable feeling but there's always hope that everything will make sense at a later time.
Nic thanks for stopping by- just read up on your sitch I'm so sorry you have to go thru with H going to file- know I am with you in prayer. hugs to you and your D

Hello DB family today is New years eve and I have been putting a lot of thought on how to make it great. For journaling purposes I put this together for later reference:

2019 New Years Resolution- Rediscovering Happiness

Simply to be POSITIVE Ė Physically, Intellectually, Emotionally, Spiritually.

Physically
To do something active that promotes healthy living -My daily gift to me. Eat healthier and promote a healthy lifestyle. To lose 20 lbs more thru diet and exercise and proper sleep.
If I canít go to the gym- I must do a home workout Ė Elliptical, push up power bands or weights, and planks at home.
To promote healthy sleep habits
Play more and interact with S Ė outdoor & indoor activities

Emotionally
Keep a positive mental attitude. Being more Conscientious, Charismatic and Confident. Learning more about my emotions and properly acknowledging them then having the right methods in place to compartmentalize and displace anger and frustration.
Continue with my Gratitude Journal- to be thankful daily for ALL that is good in my life.
To be more of a level thinker- always remain cool, calm collected and confident. Never react with just emotions

Spiritually
To stay close to God Ė attending church regularly
By praying daily and often and keeping a strong dialogue with God
To be slow to anger and quick to extend blessing and grace
To be readily forgiving of myself and others.

Intellectually
Learn something new everyday- read daily
Learn a new skill Ė Draw/ Play guitar/ Harmonica/ Dance Salsa & Batchata

To stop procrastinating.
Start a new budget and save more money
Volunteer- Certify Pooch as a service dog Ė share your gifts -pay it forward
Clean up regularly- keep the house tidy Ė organize and do things in an orderly fashion
ALWAYS WORK TOWARDS BECOMING BETTER-ALWAYS BE THE BEST VERSION OF ME AT ALL TIMES!!!!!

Happy New Year Everyone!Wishing you a new year rich with the blessings of love, joy, warmth, peace and laughter!
Hang in there mate. I'm working also on the PIES. Hope you're ok. Happy New Year.

Goodbye 2018.
Manta thanks for the good wishes- all the best to you too!

Hey DB family,

It's been a while since I posted. It's been pretty much the same. Work is super busy. S has had his moments. Some good some bad. We seem to be finding better ways to resolve those issues. At one point S missed a couple days of school. Not bad because this year that would have been his 3-4 day missed . Last year me missed over 30 days. The days that he missed he seemed really off so I took him to speak with my friend the priest along with seeing our family doctor. Both said it was him being a teenager just give him time to get out of it and be patient.

My S still refuses to see his mom. I brought it up a couple times only to have him refuse firmly. I still go to the gym daily- I was off for 2 weeks at one point because I twisted my knee on some ice. I had put back 10 lbs but will hope to work on getting it off now that I am 90%.

I did see W as she came by to clean up the rest of her things from the garage. It was very cordial. I had some music playing in the background as to keep things up beat. There was no friction just some playful banter here and there. Not really any chance to validate because the conversation was very casual.

At one point my neighbor also my riding partner asks if i want to sign up for a ride in April? I respond -it depends on what day because I have a conference in Vegas some time in April. My W says- sounds nice who do you want to be your plus one ? me or the neighbor? Thinking it was just a temp check- I did not answer and quickly changed the subject.

Near the end- after packing her things in her car. She said she wanted to move things forward. Without hesitation I said I can contact a realtor to appraise our home. After which she said she wanted to get a mediator involved. I said I'm ok with that also. She wanted to get things moving so she asked me when she should make the appointment. My response was - I can sense you want to get this done. Since it is your choice I suggest that you work on a proposal and then get to me so that I can review it and make a counter proposal if necessary. I feel that is is the best way to move forward by having everything agreed to before the mediators to avoid any extra costs. She said OK.

After she asked to go see S just to say hi. I said sure I'll let you in - he's probably in his room. I stayed outside to clean up some more. I was about 10 minutes when I headed in -she was on her way out. She was at the door and thanked me for making time and for my help. I simply said your welcome - then I said I still have to get some things done and had to go.

At this point I did see brief glimpses of my old W but she seems resolute on her wanting to move on. I must now leave things in God's hands. For now I need to continue my journey of GAL and PMA. I wish you all well on your journeys as well. Blessings!
Wlf...happy to hear your status update...

The relationship between your S and W is for them to handle. The way you let your W in, but stayed outside...to me you are staying out of it AND respectful to both. No H would want his children to not have a relationship with their M, but those two have to work through it in their time and manner.

Regarding the D, you seem to be well detached and with seemingly "full speed ahead" from your W, you are moving on with the process. You never wanted it, but it is beyond your control to prevent AND it sounds like you've reached acceptance of that fact.

Moving forward on you own path with strength from your faith is the way for you Wlf!

Praying for you and your S!

-B
Posted By: job Re: Wife is not who I married ... Pt6 pls help! - 01/27/19 02:36 AM
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Letting Each Day Provide Its Own Gifts Pt7
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