Clean Slate pt 3. (Advice on Scenario pt 25)

Link to old thread

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2812109&page=11

Just had to talk ro ex about s3.
Really weird. Its like talking to a different person.
She texts differently. Very muted, none of her usual left handed comments, but still not what id call "nice"
Its like shes lost the wind in her sails.
Very unlike her. Who knows? Pointless to care really. Just an observation.
Was chuckling reading ItHurts. New girl im seeing is named Mary. Too funny.

OrangeK,

I've been struggling to keep up here since starting full-time work. Did the divorce happen? Is it finalized? If so congratulations on making it through that difficult day!!! That's also great to hear there's a new girl. How does it feel with the new girl compared to when you first met your wife?

So far this morning has not been fun. I had fully expected to have the divorce finalized by now. Here I am on our second anniversary, still married. Way too many painful memories popping up on Facebook today. Seriously tempted to reach out to her. I know no good will come of it if I were to do so. It's so hard to see wedding pictures from only two years ago where we both look so happy to know that everything was fake. How can someone fake being so happy so well?

Sending you a big hug O. Keep your mind busy today. Living present time, getting stronger.

You will be OK O.....save the pictures and any other keepsakes for S3. I have all of our family pictures, wedding pictures, and my XW wedding dress all in the closet in the spare bedroom. I know my daughters will appreciate looking at them one day since they will probably never remember.

Woah. Pump the brakes Shawn.

Almost emailed exw our wedding song just now. I just want to know its heavy on her mind today....

Deleted the draft.

Go get some ice cream

Orange,

just sit tight. You know it's on her mind and heart. She may reach out to you. My W did on our second anniversary, but even if she does, who knows what that means.

You are getting stronger. Keep fighting to progress.

Its hard to honestly believe that it's on her mind. She has not shown an ounce of remorse to this date I don't see why things would change today. However she has been on Facebook pretty much all day. I've seen her marked as active every time I've looked at Facebook Messenger. she may not be feeling remorse but I know that she at least looked at all of the old memories on Facebook today. oh well. I am currently in the process of planning a nice weekend away with Mary the weekend after next. That will be enjoyable

Get out of there O!

Just ride the day out. Put your phone away. Get away from screens if you can. Go do a marathon movie run at the local cinema. Anything to get your mind off. Take 15 mins to meditate every time you feel anxious or sad etc. Today is your SUPER self-care day. It's all about taking care of yourself today.

And you know you have that strength. Use it Orange.

Really REALLY tempted to rwach out and and say "on this day of all days, i hope youre happy with how things turned out, the decisions you made and all you threw away and hurt"

I still cant imagine how happiness is faked or how you can go from newlyweds to cheating in a matter of weeks.

Her loss all day, but damn, today hurts.

Even though its wayyyy past that point, the temptation to ask "last chance, is this really what you want?" is huge.
Stupid anniversary....

U will be ok OK....I just remembered my A would be 15 years in 3 days.....9/20. It no longer phases me....go home tonight and make yourself a drink.

Granted, R isnt what i want either. I just want to hear her say it.

Ok, Some of you may have noticed my posts became a lot more infrequent and shorter.

I stopped posting while at work, as it was becoming a distraction and causing me to fall behind at work.

So here are the things that have been on my mind these past 2 weeks. With �Final� (definitely not final) divorce hearing last week, and anniversary today.

1.) A pretty strong resurgence of some of my painful feelings and memories, although the �sting� is a lot less than it had been in times past, having gone through a period where my emotions weren�t bothering me, having them return, even if muted is tough.

2.) A lot of memories have been plaguing me lately. It seems like I cannot go anywhere, listen to the radio, or watch tv or anything without being frequently reminded of her. Whether its one of �our songs� coming on, being places she and I Used to frequent, or just memories, photos and other such triggers have been prevalent lately. Making it harder to keep her out of my head, which I was getting fairly successful at.

3.) Things with my new lady, Mary, are going really well. I have found her to be supportive, she knows my entire situation, and accepts it. She is soothing, kind and sweet. Most importantly (and I looked long and hard through a pretty scruitinous lens) she is genuine.

4.) After inadvisably looking at some of the wedding memories yesterday and today, I am still amazed how she can look so happy. Like over the moon happy, at our wedding, knowing my downfall was already forming in her head. That she would have no scruples about cheating on me 3 weeks later, or that she had likely already cheated on me beforehand anyway. Her falseness and acting abilities still blow my mind to this day. I cannot say if at this juncture she has experienced any sort of remorse, guilt, sadness or sense of loss. If she has it certainly hasn�t been made aware to me.

5.) Her demeanor patterns have been confusing. From Jan through May we literally didn�t speak at all, then from May through the middle of Aug, she was often antagonistic and baiting. Then for a 2 week stretch in Aug she was super nice, bubbly, talkative and kind. Then like a lightswitch she went back to cold silence. Since then she has responded when I have asked about S3 but in a very factual flat manner, with none of her past venom, nor any of her bubbly kindness. She feels very deflated to me. Then on top of that, during the most recent long silence, she unblocked me on all social media. Im not sure if this was so I would see memories that wouldn�t have popped up while I was blocked, if she wanted to see if id reach out, or if she has been using it to observe my life through social media. Its all very perplexing when you consider her history of keeping in touch with and keeping tabs on her EX�s. Additionally her behavior at court the other day was interesting. She stared at me a lot, did more than one �glance over her shoulder� as she left. For someone who claims to �not care what goes on in my life� she has been nosy in weeks past, asking about women I wasn�t even seeing back as far as Jan, as well as several questions about my living situation, who I hang out with, how I manage my time and so on. If she �doesn�t care and wants me to live my life� (something she said at last MC Meeting in Jan), and felt threatened enough to get and extend a restraining order, she has done quite a bit of reaching out to me in the last 6 mos. Bizarre.

6.) I have found myself reflecting on and missing different aspects of things with EXW than I had before. Her child like exuberance, several inside jokes, and just cute things she used to do for me. Its painful to realize that was all just part of the tactic to get me attached, hooked ETC. These are the same behaviors I was seeing earlier in the year directed towards OM, and they enraged me, so they serve multiple purposes for her. Hook her current guy, and make the previous one jealous.

So in conclusion, both my logic mind and my emotional mind have been amplified of late. Its been a strange juxtaposition. To be more resolved than ever that D is the right choice, she is an abusive and hurtful person, and most importantly fake. Fake to the point of illusion. At the same time, probably due to significant dates, there has been a lot of reflection, and missing things gone by.
Next month will mark a year of separation. I REALLY thought I would be Divorced, and over this 100% by now. Head down, carry on.

Any thoughts, opinions, advice or whatever else would be appreciated. I will gladly answer any questions asked.

Sandi, Vanilla, I would very much like to hear from you if you have time, I miss both of your sage advice

Bump for previous post....?

Hey Orange.
Just giving you my humble opinion.
You made it through the big storm. I remember reading your posts as you were going through the heat of it all. You were in a bad place, obsessing, mind reading, all of the bad stuff. It was a constant minute to minute struggle. You seem to be way better off in the place you are in now. Good or bad we are still human beings filled with memories and feelings. I believe it is totally normal for your mind to bring these up from time to time. Perfectly natural.
You stated you know it was the right choice to move on since she was abusive and manipulative. You have to realize that you are human. There will be many times like this but as time goes by they will fade in strength and in the times they arise. You are building your new life and new memories. Look back on your memories for they are what made you who you are today. It does not mean you are or aren't sad/angry/happy/whatever feeling you are having because of the memory you are thinking of, it just means that your mind was triggered by some external stimulus and the memory came up. This is still fresh, raw and new for you so knowing you are going to have some rough days in the future just be prepared.
I wish I had more insight.

Lots of mixed feelings within the last week.

I just had a long chat with my friend, who was the Maid of Honor in my and EXW�s wedding.

She has been cycled through, idolized, devalued and discarded by EXW more than once in the past.

We talked about understanding her issues, forgiveness, and I ask her if she would still want to be friends with EXW.

She said, �if she came to me and it seemed like she was genuinely sorry, even if she really wasn�t, id still want to give her a chance. I think shes very hurt and alone, and all of the awful things she does to people is a defense mechanism. It all makes me very sad for her�

I agree.

I wish there were some way I could communicate this to her, but with the TRO I cannot.

I know R isn�t an option, But ive spent the last few days really focused on letting go for good and all of the anger, vengeance, and pain.

Its no use. She didn�t consciously choose to do what she did, its all deep seeded insecurity issues and defense mechanisms.

I wish there were some way I could get her to really hear me. I would say

� I forgive you. I know all the things you have done to hurt me were subconscious and unintentional. Im worried about you. I feel like you are going to constantly be chasing the validation of others, some of whom you will never meet in real life.
What you did was profoundly painful, and scared me deeply. I know you loved me once, and I know you were happy for a time. It saddens me to know that maintaining love and happiness is such a challenge for you. I want you to know I am here if you need me. I am not going to let myself be hurt any further, and that cant really happen anymore because I have moved on and healed. We loved each other so fiercely once, we shared dreams goals and a life. I want you to still achieve these goals. I want to be a good parenting team. I forgive you for how you hurt me, it changed me, and I personally feel it has made me a better person. I will always have love for you. The mother of my child and my first wife, but I cannot afford to be in love with you, so I had to detach from that and say goodbye when it became evident we weren�t ever going to be able to fix this.
I hope you find all the answers you seek one day, and truly find happiness. I will always be here to lend an ear if you need one.

I wish you the best in your future life, and I look forward to watching our son grow up together.

Im sorry it ended like this. I forgive you, and wish you nothing but happiness and peace.

Love,
Orange K�

OK - Today would have been my 15 yr anniversary with my XW. I didn't even remember it until last night. Over time you won't care as much...keeping moving forward. You will be just fine.

Joe,

Not to be a negative Nelly here, and I do appreciate your words. As well as everyone elses, but it seems like I get the same response from several people each time I post.

�You�re doing alright, itll get easier with time, just hang in there and you�ll be ok�

Although compassionate, and appreciated, it doesn�t exactly give any advice on what to do differently to heal, or change behaviors.

Joe, your reply doesn�t really touch on the topic of my last post. Could you perhaps provide your opinin therein?

The Anniversary has been hard, and this week has had resounding echo effects of it since Monday.

I did a lot of thinking Mon Tue Wed, and I am just done being mad.

I know ill never get answers, justice, closure and explinations. That still bothers me, probably always will, but ive accepted that ill never get any of those answers.

Im done being mad at her, im done seeking justice/vengeance. I don�t hate OM anymore. I just wish I had one last chance to say my piece, calmly, emotionless and factual. Just to hear how she would respond, but again, �Cheeseless Tunnel� as you all say.

Im feeling stuck, like there should be a clear path ahead from this point. I don�t see what it is or where it goes.

I feel like ive hit a dead end.

She must find her inner road by herself O.

(((hugs)))

There is no advice to give. You keep looking for a magic bullet to move on. There is none. it simply takes time. The only way to the other side is through it.

You aren't getting your chance to say your piece because of the TRO. So, nothing you can do. And from experience. It doesn't make you feel any better. And you aren't going to get the response you hope for.

What else is there to do other than focus on your self and your son? There is GAL, IC, Divorce groups, advancing your career, just love being a dad and all that has to offer, make new friends.

There is no advice. You can't do anything different other than live you life. You are even dating someone when you admittedly aren't healed.

You can simply go on with your life minus your wife. That's all you can do. That's all all of us have done.

Truthfully there is nothing you can do for her as Nef suggested. I personally tend to focus on more of negative aspects of my XW than I do what was positive which helps frame my way of thinking towards her. I think you want to let her go but in the end you still come back to the same thing when you are cycling. The fond memories, the love, etc. when my mind starts to head that way I think of all the nasty $hit she did which refocuses my mind.

I think writing letters like you did can be of value. Most people would say not to send something like that because it makes you look weak but it is your sitch and if you feel like you want to then I am not going to stand in your way. I would advise against it but again it is your choice.

I got unstuck by taking care of myself. Lifting weights, playing basketball, going out with friends, spending time with my Daughters, buying new clothes, reading, learning, growing.......that is where I placed my focus and over time I mentally started to make the shift. Taking care of yourself and your S is how you move forward. You also indicated you are kind of dating someone. Another way for you to move forward.

How long where the 2 of you together?

Warm fuzzy and honest as usual Ging. Thanks.

Neff. I agree. Its a shame. I dont think itll ever happen.

People were being very compassionate and encouraging, and then you said it was appreciated but it doesn't help......

So, yeah, I was honest. I am not going to lie. It takes time, and there isn't much you can do but live your best life.

I know ginger. Its why i said thanks. It was sincere

Joe.

Together 5 years. Married 1. Had s3 2 years in.

Orange,

I can sense a change in you. Keep doing what you're doing and you will get through this.

So it looks like you are getting close to a year from when she moved out and maybe even a little bit longer since you probably knew that something was wrong before the A was exposed. My D was final in April and I really felt like I started to hit a sweet spot around 1.5 months ago so for me it was close to about 1.5 years from the time she moved out of the house until now.

I just think you have to be patient with yourself. My XW moved out 3 weeks after BD and I pretty much went NC from that point on unless it involved our daughters. If you only started distancing yourself from her and the emotions since you came to the board it might take you longer.

Truthfully the only thing that really resembles a magic bullet to heal yourself has to do with you and your self-esteem. If you do the work physically, emotionally, and spiritually.....the quicker you get your confidence back and turn yourself into an azz kicking machine and realize that you are a Sexy Mother Fucher.......the sooner you will forget about her.

It feels like a dead end because it is. But your realizing it is important and a prerequisite to feeling better. Now you need to do what you do in "real life" when you run into a dead end: head in a different direction that allows you to keep moving in your journey.

I want her to regret her decision. I know thats not detachment. I wish i knew how to drop that desire. I wish for apathy

I Admittadly saw pics of her trip with om recently. Made my blood boil to see her use the word love refrencing him. I thought i had made such good headway. Then killed it. Stupid.
Why hasnt this dulled yet?

I feel very conflicted. New R is going really well. How can i be falling for a woman if im still experincing attachment to EX?

I am sure there are many instances of things that you have wanted in life, but you can't have.

This is another. You just have to accept it. Like if you wanted a job very badly and you didn't get it. You have to accept the decision of the employer and move on. How would you handle that?

A job isnt my ex wife ginger. Apples and oranges.

OK - How did you see the pictures and why were you looking?

Are you happy with your life? Are you happy with who you are, what you have to offer, and are you confident?

For me there was a direct correlation between how I felt about myself and me further detaching from my XW.

You are saying you just want her to hear her regret her decision. You didn't say you were hoping she would come home and restore the marriage. It's something you want to hear that isn't going to change the outcome of anything.

It's apples and oranges if you want her to regret her decision so you guys could reconcile. But you have stated you do not want to save this marriage.

You just want to hear her say she regrets this to make yourself feel better. We all wanted that. But almost all of us live without it.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

I Admittadly saw pics of her trip with om recently. Made my blood boil to see her use the word love refrencing him. I thought i had made such good headway. Then killed it. Stupid.
Why hasnt this dulled yet?

I feel very conflicted. New R is going really well. How can i be falling for a woman if im still experincing attachment to EX?

And here comes Ginger being the bearer of the truth.

You aren't falling for this new woman. She is a band aid right now. Being in a new R before you are mentally out of your last one rarely works and is usually very unfair to the other party involved.

I think you are looking outside of yourself to find a quick cure, when really, the work takes time and it is only within yourself.

Joespeh,

Where she had unblocked me on IG, I went to her page to block her, as I didn�t want to see her posts or comments on other peoples pages.
When I went to her page to block her I saw the photos from her recent trip with OM.
She has stepped up to at least posting a photo of his hands, didn�t mention his name. Just called him Babe.�..still hasn�t acknowledged their relationship publically at all, beyond that.

Am I happy with who I am? Generally yes. I have some improvements to do. Keep up with workout routine, get back on working towards a full time firefighter position, get my own apartment.

Ginger,

If I knew I could R to the actual relationship we had/she presented I would, but I know if we were to R, without her getting proper help from IC. History would just repeat itself. So I know that�s not an option. I would try just for the Sake of S3, but again, it wont work and im not putting myself through pain like that again.

So yes, I would want to reconcile, but its an unrealistic goal or desire. Even if she did come back, I couldn�t trust her actions, her words, or intent without SERIOUS amounts of MC and IC.

I don�t want her to say what I mentioned to make me feel better, I want to hear her say it so I know she acknowledges what she did was wrong, and I can see she may have learned or grown from the experience. Again, I don�t think this will happen. Ever.

In regards to my new R, I am falling for this woman. I know what that feels like.
I have been VERY candid with her about my situation, and she has been accepting, understanding, patient and compassionate.

Just because I still have unresolved emotions and pain from my marriage does not mean I am lacking in the capacity to love someone else.

This week has been particularly rough, and I knew it would be. With A divorce hearing last week, our Anniversary on Monday and all the stupid �on this day� crap on Facebook reminding me of our Honeymoon. I knew it would be a rough ride in Sept.

Oct 14th will mark 1 year since separation, I had been using that date as a time stamp, when in reality I didn�t accept that my R was dead and gone until March, and didn�t begin to truly be OK with the fact that its dead and gone (not healed, but OK) until probably late May. So I know my view of timeframe is skewed.

I have to come to terms with the fact that I have been thinking this whole time she is still thinking of me (even if spitefully) and that she would be jealous if I started dating (part of why I waited) and that she generally care about me or anything I do. She doesn�t. Probably never REALLY did, but if you asked her she would tell you she loved me fiercely once, before I betrayed her somehow. Projection.

The conversation I had with her ex best friend today was very eye opening, I truly believe she isn�t aware of her patterns and possible disorder.

A common trait in people with Pers. Disorders. Many do not become self-aware or seek treatment until mid-30�s, if EVER.

She will continue to use lying, projection and gas lighting as subconscious defense mechanisms.

She wanted the R, the MR, the child, wedding, photos etc.

When she realized she would need to put in work to maintain all that, she gave up.

Moved on to a new shiny toy that gives her the feeling of limerence. Which will fade in time as always.

Couldn't you have just stopped following her instead of blocking etc. so you wouldn't of had to run the risk of seeing anything?

I wasnt following her. But because she wasnt blocked her posts and comments on friends pages were coming up. Plus by blocking her she cannot look at my page either

Oh well I guess stop using IG or you should have closed your eyes

I haven't checked out my XW FB or IG page since all of this went down. I think if I saw her and her BF kissing or whatever in a picture it would still probably sting a bit. I think the first time for everything is pretty hard or at least it has been for me.

You fell for your wife really fast too. And you admitted that may have not been done with your eyes wide open. Sure, I believe you are infatuated, infatuation is different than love. but you are still wrapped up in your exW, still would take her back if she really had changed..... that is not a good basis to start another R on. But you will do what you will do.

Go back to when you and your ex met, moved fast and you fell head over heels. You love feeling of infatuation, which can easily been mistaken for love. Changing these patterns would best serve you as to not end up in the same situation in the future.

Hi OrangeK,

I hope the divorce process will soon be over for you. Your wife must have loved you previously. She's probably still immature though and her feelings just changed for whatever reason, either due to meeting other men or not realizing the extent of commitment that marriage requires. Or maybe once the two of you were married and had a child it wasn't as fun or romantic as she expected or perhaps there are so many temptations and distractions out there she chose to focus on those instead of investing in the marriage. Or perhaps as a married couple she discovered things about you she didn't like, just as you discovered things about her that you didn't like. For most married couples they'll make compromises and deal with it but in your wife's case she moved on to the next guy and sadly she'll discover he's not perfect either. Whatever happened it's really sad and it's hard to move on from that. I hope the new woman you met might be a good long-term partner for you. As long as you're honest with the new woman about everything then it's great you found a friend and companion. I wish I could find that!

things have been going really well since getting over last week's rough patch regarding the anniversary. Communication between myself and ex-wife has been cordial and businesslike, we've only had to talk once since I've last posted. Had a really good weekend with S3, he's really enjoying Autumn so far. Took a canoe ride to the park across the lake from my house and spent a lot of time yesterday outside playing with cars and trucks. Things with Mary are going wonderfully, she's a very patient understanding and caring person. just waiting on hearing back from the court as to whether or not they are going to recalculate child support. looking forward to an enjoyable autumn.

OrangeK, that all sounds great. Autumn must be so beautiful in your area. That's such a blessing you met Mary. She sounds like a very special lady.

I just got the followingg text

Ex: "I miss you"
Ex: "oops"
Ex: "well shi7"
Ex: "im sorry, that was supposed to be to Nell"

Me: "ok, no problem"

Ex: "no, really. I hit the wrong conversation. I sent her an old video of her baby"

Me: "thats understandable"

Her: "now i feel bad, and awkward"

Me: "its really fine. Dont worry about it. "
Sent picture of s3 sleeping to change subject

Her: " awww <3 out cold. Thanks i miss him"

Detach O! No need to answer...

I did not reply beyond what I typed above. I also don't believe for a second that she texted me on accident. That was 100% intentional. Temp check if I ever heard of one, she was waiting to see if I would jump on the opportunity to say I miss you too. yet again, for someone that apparently wants nothing to do with me she can't seem to leave me alone for longer than 2 weeks. Crazy sauce.

Agree with you: neat temp check.

Yea, but why? If im so awful and loathesome?
She started talking about s3 and was being very friendly and chatty, i think she was bored and lonely. Had no attention. OM works 3rd ahift and this was at 11pm.

OK, it happens. My sister left her husband after years of him being a deadbeat, freeloading loser. They had my niece together, but finally after 5 years my sister had had enough. She filed for D. She met a new guy (her now husband). He was the exact opposite. He was a degreed, successful, determined, and motivated guy.

Just before my sister's D was final she called my mom. She said she was meeting her STBXH at my mom's house. My mom was very confused. My sister admitted she was having cold feet, and was considering reconciling (something the STBXH was for), calling off the D, and obviously, dumping the new guy.

After meeting with her loser STBXH her decision was confirmed and she went through with the D and eventually married the new guy.

THAT was with a LBS that was getting what he deserved. So you can imagine, that a decent guy like yourself would effect a similar last minute regret in your STBXW. They deal with things getting real too. If she has any normal, logical thinking way down deep at all she will have a pang or two of "am I really doing the right (for her, not morally) thing?"

I agree with others, it would have been better if you just ignored it. She threw the worm out there, and you got hooked.

How is it that I got hooked if my response was no big deal don't worry about it?

Originally Posted by OrangeK

How is it that I got hooked if my response was no big deal don't worry about it?

You responded. Then sent an unsolicited picture.

I am not here to argue with you, I am telling you how it came across.

Not trying to argue. I sent the picture to change the subject and end the convo. It worked.
Next time she does that ill just ghost it.

Well. Im about done divorce. Im happily Dating, S3 is worlds better, as am I. I have healing left to do, but its nothing i cant handle. Thanks yall. Stay strong!!!

Orange out.

Full silence since "i miss you" text.
I have consulted some diagnosed NPD people about this, and the likelyhood of a manipulative temp check is about 99%.

All is well with S3, hes doing great.
No word from court regarding final divorce since hearing on Sept. 11th.

No news is good news?

Well, I'm sure you weren't expecting her to switch into pursuit mode. I think you're doing so much better Orange.

Good to hear about your son doing well.

So now she is not pushing the divorce, is that right? Or what is holding that up?

Glad you're doing well, Orange. Don't respond to those temp checks. Ghosting is the way to go for sure...

Thanks for the support folks.

Ovvr � No, she hasn�t done really anything to �move it forward� regarding the D. She has been just reactionary. Tried to get more money from child support, that is about all she has done.
There was a different judge on Sept 11th at the �Final� divorce hearing. He said he was going to recalculate the numbers, I had previously submitted motions to have my child care payments credited to my child support. Since Sept 11th I have not heard a peep from the courts. Not regarding my motions, any re-calculations, or any further decisions or movement on my divorce case. I am actually hoping that its been delayed because the original judge is getting caught up with the case. He was much more involved, engaged and fair in my opinion. The 2nd judge seemed lazy and awaiting retirement.

MTB � Thanks for touching base, I had been wondering how you were doing. It was nice to see an update from you. I agree. I actually fell in a bit with the �I miss you� temp check, I called her out on it. I said didn�t believe it was a text to a friend mis-sent. She stood her ground claiming it was, I said it was no big deal, just a misunderstanding. She sticks to her stories, lies or not, so there was no point in pushing the issue.

This weekend she did a bit more, texting me about �a new guy at her work who knows of my parents, has a camp house up near their house it�s a small world!�

As well as �Ill be out once the new guy at work finishes up with his client! Ill see you soon to get S3, CANT WAIT TO SEE HIM!!!�

So more of the �My STBXH is dangerous and needs a TRO, but ill cheerfully text him 3x a week!�
*OrangeK rolls eyes*

Lastly, I was contacted by someone from EX-FIL�s past. With very damning evidence that STRONGLY reinforces my suspicion he is a dangerous person for S3 to be around. I will be looking further into this and very likely filing an RO against him to not be near S3. Very dark, damning things.
What a sick world we live in�.

Other than that, things are business as usual. Dating Mary is going well, continuing to grow, but I do have my defenses up a bit too.

S3 has been doing really well, school loves him. 1st Dentist Appt. soon.

Thanks for the update O. Enjoy S3, they grow up in the blink of an eye.

Keep GAL, stay strong man!

Well I hope you're following the rules on texting, your W is acting very weird. Stay strong and under control, keep that mindset in check.

I know I feel pretty good most times, but sometimes one little thing gets us good and we are back to raw emotion and pain.

Ovr � What about her behavior strikes you as odd?? I know I have my own reasons, just wondering if you and I are identifying the same behaviors.

Yesterday was a bit odd � I was leaving work, and taking a right onto the main rd like I always do. OM drove by with EX in the passenger seat, and after a few cars went by, I made my right turn onto the road, same direction they were going on their way to pick up S3 I would assume. OM then quickly turned off the main rd onto a side street away from the direction of S3�s school. I continued up the road, stopped at the store, as was my original plan, and then turned around and headed back the way I was coming from, and took my right hand turn at the 4 way intersection OM had just earlier turned at abruptly. I took my right hand turn and there they were behind me, now again on course for S3�s school. I turned off that road right before they did, but headed in the direction of my house.
I honestly think OM / EXW saw me from my work parking lot, and assumed I was following them or something? Which is why he turned off the road, and then detoured for no reason, only to head the direction he was going in originally.

So far there have been 4 �hoover� type events. � For those curious, Google �Narcissistic Hoovering Techniques� to get an idea of what I mean.
1 � way back in Jan, before TRO � I got a �oh, remember we used to watch this show together? I had watched some episodes and thought of you�

2 � Aug � the �I saw there was a car wreck (nowhere near my house) and people were badly hurt and killed, are you ok??�
3 � Sept. � the �I miss you� �oops� �Sh*t� �I didn�t mean to send that� texts which she claimed were accidental.

Then the Once a month niceness, random texts about things we don�t really need to discuss.

Orange,

I just feel like she is trying to regain the companionship with you, she's acting like y'all are best friends again. That's a WTF to me.

Quote

I called her out on it. I said didn�t believe it was a text to a friend mis-sent.

Don't do that! You're putting her on the spot. I imagine she did this on purpose but was scared to do that and you didn't make it ok for her. You had to tell her you know. Instead of just being happy that you were missed and feeling good about that, it's like you had to prove a point. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that there's no point to "call her out" and that "calling people out" is much like starting a fight.

Ovvr � Perhaps �Called her out� was a bad term to use. Here is the convo we had about it.

She had messeged me about new boots she bought S3.

Me: �Those are cool, I bet hell love them, How has he been for you, any behaviors we should discuss? Also, about the other night, Missing what we had is to be expected, It was a big change and ordeal for both of us. I dont blame you for missing things. S3 missis his family being together. He mentions it a lot. I hope life is going well for you. Have a nice night�

Her: �The other night???�

Me: �The �I miss you texts� �

Her: �Like I said, those were meant for my friend, I sent them to you on accident�
*Sends video*
�I had sent this video to my friend, and the convo was open next to yours. I texted you instead of her on accident�

Me: �ok. I didn�t need the video as evidence�

Her: �Well, it just seemed like you don�t believe me that it was meant for my friend�

Me: �I didn�t�

That's pretty much calling her out.

How would you have address to that then?

I would not have ever mentioned it again.

My response:

"Those are cool, I bet hell love them, How has he been for you, any behaviors we should discuss? Have a nice night."

Om just slow rolled by my work.

Why did you feel the need to address it?

You basically didn't believe what she told you about the text, then you put thoughts and feelings in her head and mouth which weren't hers, they were assumptions, and you proceeded to validate your own version.

I would ask myself "why did I feel the need to address it? and why did I assume how she was feeling and tell her as much?"

Ginger. Because it was bs. Im sure of it.

You seem to sympathize/side with her on all fronts. U want het contact info? You two could be buddies.

I would have never brought up the "I miss you" text as well. Also saying "Missing what we had is to be expected" sounds like your fishing to me to see if she would break down and throw you a bone. How do you know she misses what you had? How do you know it was a big ordeal for her? Then by throwing S3 in the mix it seems manipulative to me like your trying to use him and any sympathy she may have for him to get something out of her for your benefit just so you can here her say she is sorry, or whatever you are looking for.

Even if it was BS......why do you care?

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Ginger. Because it was bs. Im sure of it.

You seem to sympathize/side with her on all fronts. U want het contact info? You two could be buddies.

Where did you find sympathy for her in my post? That was all about YOU. Why do you care so much if she mistexted you or didn't. Why the need to say something? What difference is it going to make in YOUR life if she knows you know it is BS. Sometimes we can just know something and not have to prove it. You basically made yourself look like you were the one having those feelings.

But you have this need to call her out. I guess if it makes you feel better, knock yourself out.

My inner work needs to be done as to why I keep coming back to try to help, when I get a childish defensive response like the one above. That's what I could work on.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Ginger. Because it was bs. Im sure of it.

You seem to sympathize/side with her on all fronts. U want het contact info? You two could be buddies.

OK, you continue to lash out at people, who free of charge, are trying to help you. I know you've poopooed IC in the past, made half-hearted attempts. Etc. But I am telling you, from personal experience, if you do not get to the root of your own problems you will end up back in a similar situation in a few years. Ginger is trying to show you that, while you've convinced yourself of a fact (that may or may not be true), that you are continuing to try to get what OK wants out of it. I am guessing this is something you did throughout your relationship with the STBXW as well. Why? Why is that need there? That is for OK, not STBXW, to figure out and deal with.

You've bit my hand before when all I was doing was trying to help you. You've done it to Ginger and others repeatedly. Then storm off in a huff if you post something and don't get any responses. Let me guess, you are right and all of us are wrong.

OK, I've said my peace. Continued prayers for you, and your sitch.

I cannot for the life of me figure out why you are so tightly wound.

Again, the assumption that I am upset/angry/defensive.

I am great, just asking behavioral questions.

Ginger, you have consistently played the devil�s advocate on her behalf, and have defended her manipulations on more than one occasion.
This is why I have asked you in the past if you just like to debate with me, it certainly seems that way.

The constantly asked Question: Why do you care?
seems to me an obvious one. If none of you cared, why are you all still on the forum?

I do care. She pushes my buttons, goes hot/cold on me, and generally does things to maintain everpresence in my life, despite being the one to go running away.

Steve, I have been going to IC for almost a year, I don�t recall ever �poopooing� it. Just the first IC I had. I have had a lot of success since switching. I have told you several times I have been and do go to IC. SO why you keep parroting advice I took ages ago is beyond me.

I find it interesting that you always say how �you are all only here to help� but yet, neither of you ever chime in except to crap on my actions.

Other posters take the time to read my posts and ask questions. The two of you just glare down at me from your pulpits with your looks of scorn and frustration.

Sorry I don�t do exactly what you want me to or think I should.
This expectation is reminiscent of how EXW would treat me. Attempts of control through the guise of �helping�

Joseph, Neff, Ovvr, MTB, your continued input is appreciated.

Sorry I've made you feel that way. I hadn't thought of it that way, thank you for that perspective.

Yep.

I am not defending her actions! Ever! See, the point I am making is her actions are irrelevant. I don't give a cr@p about her. It's YOUR reactions I am trying to help you along with here. You are a cheesless tunnel chaser because you are so desperate for her to know what you are thinking. To call her out. Or to manipulate an apology or a feeling or an emotion you think she should be having.

That has nothing to do with her. It all has to do with you. But you will see what you will see.

If you can show me where I defended her, please do, and I will apologize for that, because my intention was to focus on your reactions which don't serve YOU at all.

But I think I might be chasing a cheeseless tunnel myself.

I will re police my responses. The i miss you text was clearly meant to get in my head. And it worked. Caused me to become conflicted and lash out here. I really need to just drop it. Read a good quote i related to yesterday.

"My mother died. My spouse cheated, the pain was the same. When she confirmed her infidelity, the person i chose to spend my life with died"

Shes dead. When she swapped her persona when she met om, the woman i knew died. Never to return.

Love that, OK!

Also, feel free to lash out at me anytime. I don't mind. I would much rather you lash out here in a cathartic way, than lash out at her and make your sitch worse.

Onward and upward!

OK - You have to continue to work on letting it go and building your life into something that is so spectacular that your XW is nothing but a blip on the radar. When she reaches out to you either in error or on purpose and says something nice just take it at face value and move on. If it violates a boundary of yours then enforce the boundary. Try to stop looking for meaning with everything that she does. I did this early on with my XW and it is mentally exhausting.

Tuesday my XW sent me a text message laughing about something another parent did and then she asked my opinion on something, phrased it with (WWDD) "What Would Daddy Do". I just answered her question and kept it moving reminding myself in the back of my mind that we are divorced and she has a boyfriend.

Woman are emotional creatures and sometimes there is no ryhym or reason to what they do. I do know though that if you ever wanted a chance to recon with your XW you need to hold the line, show her your emotional strength and don't engage her in these petty arguments or trying to prove a point or 1 up her. That type of behavior will continue to push her farther away.

And this is exactly what I am trying to get you to focus on. Why are you letting 3 little words get in your head so bad? It will only serve YOU to work on that.

And I will tell you, if my boyfriend was so easily manipulated and let his ex get in his head so much by a "I miss you" text, which may have not even been intended for him (I know you say it is, but it's not something she is admitting to) I would be really concerned about where his mind and heart is. I know you say Mary is great and understanding, but if you want to take this R further, your ex can't have that much control over you anymore.

Orange,

I liked your quote on her being "dead". I've had similar thoughts before as well.

Just quit engaging her as opponent or someone you need to prove something to. I know, you know, she knows, we all know that she hurt you. And you're still somewhat attached. And your W knows it too b/c you're still arguing with her.

You've come a long way, now just keep working on yourself. You know she texted you that she misses you. Maybe it really was an accident, although I don't think it was. Either way you don't need to prove anything to her and you don't need her to admit it to you. Live your life!

The new and improved Orange doesn't have buttons that can be pushed because he has learned how to react based on his values and boundaries.

As I haven�t been posting a lot lately I would like to open the door for any of you to ask any questions you may have.
Here are some things that have been on my mind.

FIL�s dark, mysterious past, and how much a physical threat to S3 he is.

A lot more of her gaslighting and compulsive lies have come to the surface. I am frequently reminded of some thing she said or did that didn�t fully register when it happened, but now is such obvious deception it hurts.

The court has been awful slow and quiet for the past month.

I am often torn between nostalgia and anger, thinking back on what things were like, and how far back into our R she had been lying and sneaking, but yet I still harbor fond memories and miss things, things I know were likely BS.

Mary has shown me a lot about what a normal person says and does in a new relationship, it has shown me how many red flags I really did miss with EXW. So many more than I thought.

I cannot look back and honestly identify a time outside the first 6 months our relationship that I feel she may have been 100% genuine. Yet I still miss and think about her a lot. Makes no sense to me.

Questions that still plague me: (2x4 bait, but im being honest here)
1.) Why unblock me and be nice for a week, go cold, rinse and repeat? � my assumption here is that though she doesn�t want me, she doesn�t want me to move on either.
2.) Does she ever regret her decision? Even for selfish reasons like losing our home, or looking like scum to the public?
3.) (this will earn me the 2x4) Why has she still kept OM from public view? She couldn�t wait to start flaunting me around online when we started dating. It was immediate. She has been with OM for 1.5 YEARS now. Not a single mention of him. Anywhere. Its like he doesn�t exist.

4.) How can you be so emotionless and pretend like nothing happened?

5.) Why did I backslide so hard?

Honesty time.
She is still in my head way more than she ought to be. This was reduced dramatically the last few weeks, a month maybe, but its been more prevelant these last few days, a week.

I am still comparing Mary to her in some ways, and I know that is a dark road to tread.
There are things about her I miss, that I feel were just Mirroring Techniques to make me fall for her, but they are things I feel like I wont find again in a woman. She was fun, funny, things were vibrant and ALIVE when we first got together. But again, I think that�s just the mirroring/love bombing/fake love speaking.

Mary is wonderful, she has been so understanding, and kind. Esp. considering she came into this Relationship with little to no dating experience. She knows my situation 100% and has been amazing, even encouraging me to talk about things when she can tell im not 100%.
I think Mary is just a very very different type of person, and that�s still taking adjustment time.

Ok, so typing that all out just helped a lot. I think this is what ive thought of. Not healthy, selfish, but truth.
1.) I know I was deceived abused and manipulated.
2.) I Don�t want her back, and I don�t want to reconcile.

3.) I do miss her, and I do regret losing my family, my home, and splitting S3�s life up. I just miss what I had, but I see that that is gone forever. She is dead. The woman I knew is dead.
4.) I think if she hadn�t gotten caught cheating, it would have gotten swept under the rug, and would have just happened again.
5.) She truly believes all her own lies, and is convinced of her gaslighting. She truly believes I was emotionally abusive, that �its my fault� She cheated, that I took her for granted, and was generally a d*ck.
I had things to improve on, but this is not the case. I was a good husband, HER LOSS.

6.) she will keep doing this.

7.) her life IS NOT as nice as she has presented it to be. She is really good at pretending she is happy, content and things are going well.
Her stepfather and I had a long chat 2 weeks ago. He was bursting at the seams to tell me how F*cked up the situation at their house has been. He also told me if he ever meets OM, he will punch him.
8.)OM has been introduced to FIL, but not MIL and Step-FIL. She is isolating him to only her F*cked up, sicko father.

Lastly, I have mentioned these �Gut feelings� before, they have always been followed by some event. Court papers, her messaging me, other things. I swear�.it feels like we share some emotional connection and I can sense when she is particularly mad, upset, or feeling guilt. This sounds crazy, even to me, who experiences these physical sensations and the timing that goes with them.
I don�t believe in this type of spiritual connection per-say, but it has happened far too many times to dismiss out of hand.

I have gotten lazy with my workouts since moving to my brothers. That ends today.
I am working on getting my own place soon. That will be a big help

[quote=OrangeK]Questions that still plague me: (2x4 bait, but im being honest here)
1.) Why unblock me and be nice for a week, go cold, rinse and repeat?  my assumption here is that though she doesnt want me, she doesnt want me to move on either.

I don't think anyone can give you the answer to this. I don't care who you are no one can turn off all of their emotions and I am sure she has went through her own grieving process but hasn't shown it to you. IMO it will probably happen when you least expect it or something you are not aware of will trigger it.

2.) Does she ever regret her decision? Even for selfish reasons like losing our home, or looking like scum to the public?

Again I don't think anyone truly knows the answer but I am sure their is some regret but that doesn't mean she is coming home.

3.) (this will earn me the 2x4) Why has she still kept OM from public view? She couldnt wait to start flaunting me around online when we started dating. It was immediate. She has been with OM for 1.5 YEARS now. Not a single mention of him. Anywhere. Its like he doesnt exist.

Again anything I saw is purely speculation but maybe there is some embarrassment on her part for what she has done especially if OM is worse than you. If your W is like my XW she hangs around a completely different crowd now so while in her old circles he may not be showing his face in her new circles he might be.

4.) How can you be so emotionless and pretend like nothing happened?

How do you know this to be the case? She may not just show it to you. You are speculating.

5.) Why did I backslide so hard?

Because you still love your W and if she called you tomorrow and said "OK.....I love you, I am so sorry I will do anything to make it right you would explore it". You just need to be honest with yourself. I don't think you have got to the acceptance part yet of your situation.

If my XW called me tomorrow and said the same thing I as well would be willing to explore it with her. After being together for 17 years and having 2 kids I would be willing to see her progress. That is assuming that I am not in a relationship with someone else that blows my socks off.

Just be honest with yourself OK.

It�s a process O and it takes time. You have up and down cycles there but you know you are moving forward. DB let you focus on yourself and regain control of your life (piece of cake...)

You have been walking a long road. Be proud of where you are. Just give time the time. Detach some more, no expectations, live the present. Enjoy your S.

Don�t be harsh when interpreting advices. We are all different, we come from so many places, but this is a common space we have to share our feelings. This is a love based site, and that is what we share.

Love your S, love yourself and keep moving forward O!

Got another "accidental" text.

Her: "at work sweeetheart"

ME : �Another wrong text?�

Her: �Woah, FML, Sorry lol.
Im done texting because I clearly keep hitting the wrong conversations when im distracted. I feel like an @sshole right now after you�ve already made it clear about conflicting feelings when talking to me. I cant imagine seeing that just now was an easy feeling, im really sorry OrangeK�

Me: � It doesn�t bother me EXW, Im fine. Its just odd that in 6 years you never mistakenly texted me, and now its been twice in a week. Perhaps you should change my name in your phone to avoid confusion�

Her: �I know, its because the conversations are right next to eachother and I hit the wrong one again, not paying attention to texting. I don�t need to change any names in my phone, theres no confusion�

Me: �Sure thing. Ttyl�

She's a royal wench..............

Oh man...

Sorry OK...I concur with the others. On a side note I thought you handled it well.

Google: " narcsite everpresence"

Next message just ignore it. Let her boil herself on her narcissistic broth.

Originally Posted by neffer

Next message just ignore it. Let her boil herself on her narcissistic broth.

THIS^^^^^^^

It is still possible it was a mistake. Though unlikely.

If it was then responding is giving her what she wants.

Not responding is exactly the perfect way to deal with someone like her. Never acknowledge it. Even if she brings it up later. Gaslight her!

Super uncool on her part. I don't buy it as a mistake happening twice like that. Next time, no response on your part. No matter what the text, naked pic etc. Starve that fire by giving it no oxygen.

She wants some kind of reaction, ANY KIND, because she needs attention. She knows you are an easy target. She knows just how to get in your head and get you going. I think it's a game to her. So don't play the game. Don't respond, ignore, just as the others said.

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