Hi all looking for some support and advice here. I will keep this short as possible because it's a familiar story here.
Married 10 years 2 kids aged 8 and 10. After 3 years of being a workaholic, being selfish about it, arguing with my wife and not paying attention to her needs about 7 weeks ago she said she was done and wanted a divorce. I felt like I was punched in the gut. I immediately did the we can fix it routine, you really don't want that, lets solve this etc, it fell on deaf ears. She cut me off completely, no affection, no sex, she insisted this was the end. It was all business. She has the separation papers and divorce papers in her desk. She never kicked me out she said she was scared if she did I wouldn't come see the kids, so I am still going home when I can. She never filed any papers she said because our financial situation isn't great right now and then I would have to leave and it would be hard for me to see the kids cause I would have nowhere to live except for the back of my store. I went through some pain, a lot of grief, a lot of guilt and self hatred. Then I got online and did a lot of reading, downloaded audio books, and came to the realization that she was right about everything, but I want to save my marriage, because I am truly in love with her and want to spend my life with her. I realized I had to first of all accept what was happening, realize that if it did happen it would not be the end of the world, and get stronger. I realized I had to change and if I didn't change that there was no chance of saving my marriage. So I set about changing, I lost 18 lbs (another 20 to go). When I was around her I started to listen, I keyed in on what really made her angry. I started coming home when I said I would come home, I started to spend more time with my kids and quality time, and that's been awesome, my kids adore me. I backed off, I didn't attempt to touch her, I spoke softly, I communicated what needed to be communicated, and kept it as simple as possible. We went for dinner she agreed, I went for a haircut, bought some new jeans cause my 36 pants were falling off me now. I told her I agreed with her, she was right, and I accept her decision. I apologized for all the times I hurt her and told her I can't go back and fix it, but we need a new relationship, and if that was only a friendship I was fine with it. She noted that I was looking good, and she said the change in me was almost "scary" and told me she couldn't believe I can continue. I booked for some counseling on my own, she told me she didn't believe I would follow through. Fair enough, talk is cheap, action is what counts.
On side note shortly after she said she wanted a divorce I looked at her texts, there is a man she works with and there has been some very flirty behavior between them. I mentioned it once, I told her I was aware, I didn't want to talk about how I knew, and I told her I didn't want to speak about it further, I just had to get it off my chest. This is still going on, but I have noted it less flirty on her side, I don't put a lot of stock in the guy as he is going through a separation right now and I believe he's been pursuing my wife for some time prior, so I can't have much respect or stock in a man that would pursue a married woman. I do understand that she perhaps feels some attention and maybe she needs it due to my lack off.
Ok fast forward to last weekend. I was on my way home from my store, she had gone to happy hour with some coworkers and she texted me when she was leaving, maybe that guy was there maybe not, I didn't ask who she was with, it doesn't matter and I am not a jealous man, although my wife is gorgeous I don't believe she has ever had an affair. She told me she was stopping to get a bottle of wine and asked me if we could stay in and have some wine, she asked me to get some snacks and we would sit out on the deck. So we did the neighbor came over for a bit then he left, and it was us, we had drank a fair bit but I was not intoxicated, she was probably a bit more than me. All night as she was talking she kept grabbing my arm as if to emphasize something, countless times. After the neighbor left we started to talk, and she broke down, she cried, she told me she hated men, she told me how some guy at the pub told her she was hot, she complained about some other guy was treating her (I am assuming it's the guy from work I didn't ask) then she really unloaded on me with a ton of anger, got abusive, I tried to touch her back she told me not to effin touch her, when she got more abusive I got up and told her I was going to bed because I didn't need to be abused. She said "there you go same as always run away when things get hard". So I sat back down and let he unload on me for another 15 minutes. She calmed down, then she started playing more music, then she grabbed my hand and held it. I held her hand sitting there quietly, then I kissed her hand. Soon we were dancing on the deck and kissing each other and well you know where that goes. So after 7 weeks we had awesome passionate sex. Then in the morning we did again. So I was feeling screwed up the next day so was she she had to work the afternoon and she texted me and said we needed to talk. So when she was home she talked about how we can do that stuff etc, then we spent a good 2 hours talking about our relationship, she stated again that she was skeptical that I could maintain the change. Fair enough. The next day we spent the day together with the kids and had a good day, there was some light affection both ways. We got home went to separate beds and slept. The day after we made a fire in the firepit and sat up late talking, listening to music, and having a few beers. She was lightly affectionate as was I. Well bedtime guess what, here we go again, and then again in the morning, I called a staff member and told them they need to open the store and I would be late. So that was a couple days ago. So today she is a bit cold not sure what to make of it. I am committed to saving my marriage, what do I do next, I honestly didn't expect to e having sex with her and I am not interested in friend with benefits, what is my next move? Should I try be more affectionate? Should I slack off again?
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Hi Cadet thank you for the reply and the links. I don't know how much advice I can give right now to others but can certainly support them.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I confronted my wife today about the texts with the guy from work. She blew up on me and is very angry. No mention of her EA just angry that I looked in her phone, she mentioned that it's controlling, and she's probably right. But I honestly don't care I feel better that it's off my chest. I told her it was wrong for me to snoop on her phone, just as she has done to me countless times, and my Facebook, and my emails. I feel so much lighter now I think it will create a bump in the road but I think she understands and shes shocked and feeling guilty. If we can't have everything in the open than we can't build a new relationship as far as I am concerned.
Can you share your ages? I see you've been married 10 years, how many together? Any previous marriages for either of you?
Paulzee, I'm interested in your sitch because it is very similar to mine. Especially the voracious sex. That happened about 10 weeks into my sitch. It's all documented in my threads. I don't want to give you false hope by my wife have been in R and piecing for almost 6 months now.
I will saw things do look bright for your chances at R. With the spending quality time together.
Couple of red flags. Her drinking. Would you categorize it as excessive. Could she hang out on the deck or at the firepit with you without drinking?
And her behavior the night on the deck is a bit concerning. Does she often swing wildly between extremes like that?
Oh and welcome to the forum!
Can you share your ages? I see you've been married 10 years, how many together? Any previous marriages for either of you?
Paulzee, I'm interested in your sitch because it is very similar to mine. Especially the voracious sex. That happened about 10 weeks into my sitch. It's all documented in my threads. I don't want to give you false hope by my wife have been in R and piecing for almost 6 months now.
I will saw things do look bright for your chances at R. With the spending quality time together.
Couple of red flags. Her drinking. Would you categorize it as excessive. Could she hang out on the deck or at the firepit with you without drinking?
And her behavior the night on the deck is a bit concerning. Does she often swing wildly between extremes like that?
Oh and welcome to the forum!
Hi Steve thank you for the welcome. Do you have a link to your thread? I don't mind answering your questions I am 47 and my wife is 37. She does not drink excessively we do partake from time to time but there are no issues spending time together without alcohol. She does not have typically wild mood swings but I think her frustration with feeling attracted to me again coupled with her anger for how I treated her the past 3 years may have triggered it she's probably confused also. She is sometimes quick to anger over small things but it was worse when she was younger shes much better now. Do you think I did the right thing confronting her on her EA at this point in things? I really needed her to know that I knew the truth about her relationship with Greg, she was playing it off as just a friend, I needed it off my chest. It was pretty flirty for sure and way outside a friendship including her basically telling him all about our marital problems.
Probably should have done it sooner if you were going to do it, but I'm they confronting type so I'm with you on feeling the need to do it. It'll be interesting to see how she reacts once she mulls it over.
I’m certainly no expert but I’m almost 4 months in and have seen what does and doesn’t work. I blew up at the first sign of EA and it literally threw my WW on a 4 week bender with the other guy. I have since learned to mention him as little as possible if not at all. All it does is reinforce controlling behavior and push her away.
Although I have to admit 10 years ago when this happened, yes I am a two time LBS, I left right away and it shook my wife and it was a 2 week R. Only to be back here again. But I still have hope, keep working on yourself and don’t push too hard.
My wife has been initiating sex as well even though she has not wanted to talk about R and I can only do my best work and hope that she remembers why she married me 17 years Ago.
I’m certainly no expert but I’m almost 4 months in and have seen what does and doesn’t work. I blew up at the first sign of EA and it literally threw my WW on a 4 week bender with the other guy. I have since learned to mention him as little as possible if not at all. All it does is reinforce controlling behavior and push her away.
Maybe you're right lost8 and that's exactly what she said "stay tuned for more texts you will love them" lol. Just couldn't keep it in though problems or not it's wrong and I can't regret my decision need to live with it now if it shuts her off it shuts her off. Need all cards on the table I am working hard to change she needs to change also and that needs to stop.
My wife has been initiating sex as well even though she has not wanted to talk about R and I can only do my best work and hope that she remembers why she married me 17 years Ago.
That's encouraging have you tried to hold back? I know it's damn hard to do.
Hey Paul, first I do agree with Steve that your outlook for saving your M is very good. I don't think your W is two feet out the door like most who come here, more like one foot. You're doing a lot right and a little wrong so I'm going to touch on that:
She never filed any papers she said because our financial situation isn't great right now and then I would have to leave and it would be hard for me to see the kids cause I would have nowhere to live except for the back of my store.
OK well the reasons don't matter, if she's not filing then count that as a blessing. DO NOT ASK ABOUT IT. No relationship talk at all, don't talk about the M, the D papers, separation, future plans, NOTHING. You've got to remove all pressure from her and all of those things are pressure. She's backing down from D but if you apply even the slightest pressure to her she will go back to full-on WAS mode in a heartbeat. BE CAREFUL.
Then I got online and did a lot of reading, downloaded audio books, and came to the realization that she was right about everything, but I want to save my marriage, because I am truly in love with her and want to spend my life with her. I realized I had to first of all accept what was happening, realize that if it did happen it would not be the end of the world, and get stronger. I realized I had to change and if I didn't change that there was no chance of saving my marriage. So I set about changing, I lost 18 lbs (another 20 to go). When I was around her I started to listen, I keyed in on what really made her angry. I started coming home when I said I would come home, I started to spend more time with my kids and quality time, and that's been awesome, my kids adore me. I backed off, I didn't attempt to touch her, I spoke softly, I communicated what needed to be communicated, and kept it as simple as possible.
All of that is perfect, keep it up!
I told her I agreed with her, she was right, and I accept her decision. I apologized for all the times I hurt her and told her I can't go back and fix it, but we need a new relationship, and if that was only a friendship I was fine with it.
OK well that's fine to say once, but don't keep telling her these things. You said it, she heard you, now it's all about ACTION.
She noted that I was looking good, and she said the change in me was almost "scary" and told me she couldn't believe I can continue. I booked for some counseling on my own, she told me she didn't believe I would follow through. Fair enough, talk is cheap, action is what counts.
Right now she thinks you're making changes as tricks to get her back. You've got to show her CONSISTENT changed behavior over a long period of TIME. So really work hard at keeping those changes going.
...then she really unloaded on me with a ton of anger, got abusive, I tried to touch her back she told me not to effin touch her, when she got more abusive I got up and told her I was going to bed because I didn't need to be abused. She said "there you go same as always run away when things get hard". So I sat back down and let he unload on me for another 15 minutes. She calmed down, then she started playing more music, then she grabbed my hand and held it. I held her hand sitting there quietly, then I kissed her hand.
Well it sounds like you listened and validated so that is good, but wow it sounds like she has some issues she needs to work through with a counselor. Is she going to IC?
So that was a couple days ago. So today she is a bit cold not sure what to make of it.
This is very common. The WAS pulls back, then opens up, then pulls back again because they don't "want to give you the wrong idea" or feel they let things go too far. Your response should be to pull back and give her time and space. Just keep doing what you said above- focus on your weight loss, your kids, your business and work in some GAL. DO NOT PURSUE HER because that will just push her farther away. No pressure on her.
what is my next move? Should I try be more affectionate? Should I slack off again?
Definitely do not push affection on her. Like I said above, give her time and space and work on you. I wouldn't call that "slacking off".
I confronted my wife today about the texts with the guy from work. She blew up on me and is very angry. No mention of her EA just angry that I looked in her phone, she mentioned that it's controlling, and she's probably right.
This is something you need to work on. Stop that ASAP. No more snooping. When you snoop all you do is gather a bunch of confusing info that you can read several different ways, and if you call her out then it'll only cause resentment and send her deeper undercover.
If we can't have everything in the open than we can't build a new relationship as far as I am concerned.
You are putting the cart before the horse. First you've got to work to regain her trust and interest. THEN you can work on being open. She is not going to want to be open to you right now so don't push for that. It should be a condition for recon but you are not there yet.
What is my next move? Should I try be more affectionate? Should I slack off again?
That is the best first post I have ever read. You are on the right path. You have come to the right place to get stellar advise.
Your Job as the H is to protect the marriage.
"I am sorry you feel that way" goes a long, long way.
You had every right to snoop when you believe there is a threat to your marriage. You are on a difficult path, but the skills you gain will be worth it.
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it... so many LBS avoid it like the plague--and i don't ever see that it helps them... when i was a WW, my H knew about my EA early on and said nothing... eventually the EA became a PA... had he mentioned it right away, i would have thrown myself at his feet, and i would have walked away from OM as i was not yet attached... once i became attached, it became difficult to walk away... i don't think you should keep bringing him up now... just don't let her think you are a fool...
i do get her anger toward you... i am amazed at how many LBHusbands realize at BD how in love they are with their wives, even after years of neglecting their wives... i don't get it... but at this point, it's too late to figure that out... now you must deal with the issue at hand...
mis dos centavos...
--artista
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it... so many LBS avoid it like the plague--and i don't ever see that it helps them... when i was a WW, my H knew about my EA early on and said nothing... eventually the EA became a PA... had he mentioned it right away, i would have thrown myself at his feet, and i would have walked away from OM as i was not yet attached... once i became attached, it became difficult to walk away... i don't think you should keep bringing him up now... just don't let her think you are a fool...
--artista
Thanks Artista, it was a good move, I put it on the table and it freed me from feeling like I was punched in the gut. It gave me more confidence and it healed me from it.
Update, spent some time at home with the wife and the kids late last week and early this week, hired a new manager at my store she is picking up my slack which is awesome and has allowed me to spend more time at home. Went home last Friday, wife had to work night shift all weekend, so I grabbed my kids and took them out camping Saturday and Sunday, there were numerous friends there, had a blast kids had a blast, good times at the campfire, lots of laughs and photos. Noticed the W sending me selfies every night before work, complimented her, then went silent. Got back Monday afternoon W was still sleeping at 3 because she was working 11:00 pm to 7:00 am shift. I had a big post on Facebook with loads of photos of friends and the kids and having fun, and noted when she did get up she was acting a bit out of sorts, I am assuming she saw the post and maybe she was irritated it looked like everyone was having so much fun without her, neighbor came over and hes a single dad living with his parents across the alley, our kids play together and she was telling him they should go out to some club and then we had her birthday dinner planned for the 4th with the family and shes inviting him and his kids along and we were sitting on the deck and I was talking to him about hunting season and how I would like to get out a bit more this year and get more serious about it and she said "oh good well you will have lots of time" then she got up and went in the house, I didn't say a word. Just kept chatting with the neighbor, and yes I know he has a massive crush on her he likes Latina women, but I don't care much he's not a major threat to my marriage don't mind him visiting he's a good guy other than he wants to bang my wife and shack up with her lol. I told her if she wants to go to the club with him to go ahead I have no interest.
I also want to mention that when I confronted her about her EA I told her that we have no trust with all these locked phones, me included, so I told her I unlocked my phone she can go and look anytime at my messages or facebook, I was done with that. I noted her iPad is unlocked, her computer, and I believe her phone is also unlocked, I didn't look but I have no interest in it anymore.
So fast forward to that night. We sat at the kitchen table talking, she wasn't tired because she was still in night shift mode. She asked me to stay up with her. There was some intimate joking by her. We were very open with our talk. We talked about a lot of things. Then she jokingly said "what do you want to do now, play cards, make love?" Then she says "no not doing that again". And I said "no problem I don't want to be pulled in and pushed back out that's fine". Then to my shock she brought up her EA, I hadn't mentioned it since the confrontation. She told me he's not the only guy at work that came onto her, she also told me she has no interest in him, and she apologized, I told her I understand and it's done, as long as it's the end of it. Meanwhile it being her birthday the next day I got her a dozen roses and some wine and a card, and laid it on her pillow, she went upstairs for something and came back down and hugged me and kissed me she was completely glowing over it. So it was about 12:30 am and I said well I am done and we went to bed, we were in our en-suite bathroom brushing teeth washing faces etc and I was trying to pee and she was reaching in the cabinet above and rubbing against me (yeah I know sorry not to spare you guys sounds like a fricken soap opera) and then we laid down and she was only in panties and a top and no pajamas means one thing. Started with a back rub for her and you know where that ended up.
In the morning I had a cake for her and me and the kids sang happy birthday. It was the kids first day of school back so we took them together (our son has autism he needs a lot of support for massive transitions we agreed we would both be there) and then went back to the house, I stayed home, and I was working and she said "oh come watch this show with me" some kinda Netflix of HBO thing she is watching and yeah next thing you know, well you know.
That evening we went to a nice Italian place with the family and had a birthday dinner. She seemed very happy all day. We went home and she was very tired I rubbed her back until she fell asleep, it was early, like 9:30, then I went downstairs and watched TV until about midnight. Things are looking pretty good for us. I have counseling again Friday, went last Friday (she said I would never follow through she probed me a bit about my session and I just said yeah it was good for me). The counselor didn't do much for me, maybe validated some of my feelings, I got less from the counselor than I do from my 2 best friends that I vent on, but my wife appreciates that I am seeing a "professional".
When I left this morning, she hugged me and kissed me. I am feeling far less cut off. I expect her to go hot and cold off and on but I am feeling very positive.
So to all of you struggling, when I had a WW and I thought I was going to lose my family, there is hope, I will say TAKE THE ADVICE of what you read here and follow it, if your relationship is savable it is savable by following the advice you find here.
PZ thanks for the update. All pretty positive.
Just two words of caution.
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Also, do not feel locked into your IC. If the one you are seeing isn't doing much for you feel free to try another. So many stay with an IC that doesn't do much for them. They are too expensive to settle like that.
PZ thanks for the update. All pretty positive.
Just two words of caution.
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Also, do not feel locked into your IC. If the one you are seeing isn't doing much for you feel free to try another. So many stay with an IC that doesn't do much for them. They are too expensive to settle like that.
Steve thank you for the advice and support. I am aware that the EA may not be completely over, but I can't let it consume me or suck my energy. I have the ability to control my actions and that's all I can do. It does enter my mind at times but I refuse to bring it up again, she can if she wants to. As far as I know she is coming to me for her sexual needs which is a positive step forward. I took the advice of "don't believe anything she tells you" to heart I am cautiously optimistic.
As far as my IC I am not expecting a lot, it's just a venting channel for me. I have 2 very good friends that have helped me far more than any counseling will ever help me, I don't expect someone who doesn't know me intimately and is not a stakeholder in my emotions to help me much. I have another session tomorrow, first session I talked a lot, now I am going to talk very little and see what she has to tell me. If we sit there in silence at $180/hr I might look for someone else.
As far as I know she is coming to me for her sexual needs which is a positive step forward.
So when my W started having sex with me the vets here rightly pointed out that while she might physically be with me, she could have mentally and emotionally been with OM. Not saying this to burst your bubble but so that you are aware of the complexity that a WW is.
So when my W started having sex with me the vets here rightly pointed out that while she might physically be with me, she could have mentally and emotionally been with OM. Not saying this to burst your bubble but so that you are aware of the complexity that a WW is.
I hear you Steve and that's a good point. She is still skeptical of my change and for that reason she is still somewhat emotionally detached. I am realistic but I can't know what's actually true unless I snoop (which I don't feel like doing) or she talks to me about. I think GAL is the key for me, and I need to keep focusing on that, say she drops a bomb on me and runs off with her EA and it goes PA, it's always a possibility. If that happens I pull back completely and basically stop going home and only deal with her about the kids.
i agree with everything Another Stander has given you except the issue with your confronting your W about the EA... i think you were right to do it...
Sorry I did not explain what I was talking about very clearly, when I was telling him to "stop doing that" I didn't mean confronting her, I meant snooping. Sometimes some snooping is required to find out there is an A taking place, but once you know that then in my opinion it's kind of pointless to keep snooping. It's real easy to misunderstand the info you've snooped, and to draw the wrong conclusions. For example, early on before I found DB'ing my XW and I were going to MC and were given some forms to fill out and turn into the C beforehand. My W gave me her filled out forms to put with mine to give to the C. I snooped and looked at her forms and saw she had responded on some of the questions that she had been physically abused. I was shocked! I never touched her in a harmful way, immediately I tried to spin it into something, was she setting me up? Was she building a case against me to use in divorce to make me look abusive? Then when we were in MC the C read it and asked her about it and she explained how a BF from 30 years before had threatened her with a knife and said he was going to kill her. So the info had nothing to do with me at all. This is what I mean, when we snoop and see things we're prone to spin them into terrible things without really knowing what they mean at all.
As far as confronting about an A, yes I do agree with that. If you know an A is taking place, then by all means let them know that you know. Just expect them to deny, deny, deny. Don't believe the denials. When they demand proof just tell them there's no need, you both know what's going on. Don't tell them "I looked at your FB messages" or "I looked on your phone" or whatever, because what's the point? You're just giving them ammo to paint you as the bad guy because you are "invading their privacy." Don't give them the ammo, it's enough that you know, and you don't owe them an explanation.
Also once you know there's an A, is there any reason to keep snooping? I mean that's about as bad as it gets, there's no "good" A versus "bad" A, they're all bad!
I hope that makes more sense than what I typed before
Be careful assuming the EA is completely over. Just be vigilant and give it time. You'll know it is over when her actions are consistent over a long period of time. Like months.
Exactly. Things sound like they are going well enough but I still think you need to pull back a bit and give her time and space. Don't assume everything is "back to normal", a lot of potential recons have been derailed because the LBS fell back into the same old habits after the WAS gave them another chance. You're on probation right now!
A lesson on infidelity I learned the hard way
Some individuals are hard wired to be monogamous
When she has feeling for OM
She has to tell you I want a divorce
That gives her license to pursue OM
And not feel guilty for cheating
And when things are not going well with OM
She may come back and charm you
And yes want to have passionate sex with you
This back and forth can go on for some time
To the LBS it is extremely confusing
She said she wanted a d
And now you are acting like love birds
At best she is confused
And may even be asking herself
How can I feel this way about two men at the same time
At worst she is manipulative
And is just keeping you on the hook
She will be skeptical of the change in you
For a long time until she is sure it is real
Does she know you are against open marriage
As far as confronting about an A, yes I do agree with that. If you know an A is taking place, then by all means let them know that you know. Just expect them to deny, deny, deny. Don't believe the denials. When they demand proof just tell them there's no need, you both know what's going on. Don't tell them "I looked at your FB messages" or "I looked on your phone" or whatever, because what's the point? You're just giving them ammo to paint you as the bad guy because you are "invading their privacy." Don't give them the ammo, it's enough that you know, and you don't owe them an explanation.
Anotherstander I tried that approach initially, I simply said I know about the flirting with OM and I don't like it and I am not talking about it further. She denied, played if off as just a work friend. When it came up again same thing. This frustrated me to no end and I thought screw it I am not going to play games with this and I told her specifics of their exchanges word for word. I just couldn't stand the downplaying, to me it's no different than lying.
Exactly. Things sound like they are going well enough but I still think you need to pull back a bit and give her time and space. Don't assume everything is "back to normal", a lot of potential recons have been derailed because the LBS fell back into the same old habits after the WAS gave them another chance. You're on probation right now!
Absolutely and I recognize that nothing is back to "normal". I certainly don't want to go back to what it was because nothing about it was "normal", since I have changed, she has also changed a lot, she's been so much easier to talk to and communicate with, we have had virtually no problems other than a couple instances of her venting about small issues like my son telling me he was eating an egg sandwich for breakfast and that my egg sandwiches are better than moms in front of her lol so I chuckled about it and got hell later for not telling him to just eat and not hurt his moms feelings. She vented, I said yes he was manipulating I didn't recognize it at the time, I shouldn't encourage it, and I am sorry about it. And it was done. No major blowouts other than her blowout when I told her specifics of her EA, but that's a typical guilt reaction. I told my C that me looking at her phone and her EA are 2 separate issues, they are not one and can't be played against each other, they need to be dealt with separately. Her blowing up allowed her to avoid the issue and her guilt t the time, but she thought about it after the fact, otherwise she wouldn't have brought it up again.
She said she wanted a d
And now you are acting like love birds
At best she is confused
And may even be asking herself
How can I feel this way about two men at the same time
At worst she is manipulative
And is just keeping you on the hook
She will be skeptical of the change in you
For a long time until she is sure it is real
Does she know you are against open marriage
That's the thing Gordie I don't think in her heart she wants a divorce, she hasn't filed anything. I honestly think initially she did, but I think she's very open to allowing me time to be a better husband and father, she has stated I am the love of her life. And to be further open I did not see any really passionate messages between them, at best it was flirting, and there were a couple messages in the exchanges telling him to cool it and back off when he overstepped. My biggest issue was her telling him about all our marriage problems, that's what hurt me the most. I believe she has put a stop to it, but again I can't be 100% sure, I have no way to now that, but I have to believe it because I can't go around feeling punched in the gut anymore, I need to keep on GAL and live day by day and see what happens. She told me the other night she has no real interest in the guy. Again I cannot confirm this but I need to believe it for my own healing and transition.
She said she wanted a d
And now you are acting like love birds
At best she is confused
And may even be asking herself
How can I feel this way about two men at the same time
At worst she is manipulative
And is just keeping you on the hook
She will be skeptical of the change in you
For a long time until she is sure it is real
Does she know you are against open marriage
That's the thing Gordie I don't think in her heart she wants a divorce, she hasn't filed anything. I honestly think initially she did, but I think she's very open to allowing me time to be a better husband and father, she has stated I am the love of her life. And to be further open I did not see any really passionate messages between them, at best it was flirting, and there were a couple messages in the exchanges telling him to cool it and back off when he overstepped. My biggest issue was her telling him about all our marriage problems, that's what hurt me the most. I believe she has put a stop to it, but again I can't be 100% sure, I have no way to now that, but I have to believe it because I can't go around feeling punched in the gut anymore, I need to keep on GAL and live day by day and see what happens. She told me the other night she has no real interest in the guy. Again I cannot confirm this but I need to believe it for my own healing and transition.
Hi Paul. I've been following your sitch. I'm a noob and in a similar sitch, so I don't have any real advice to offer. Your W does sound like mine in a way. My W said she wanted a D, was texting some dweeb for a few weeks, had it blow up on her, and has still not moved towards D. Of course, she hasn't moved towards R either, but whatever. Anyway, I guess like everyone says, be the best that you can be, and hang in there!
Hi Paul. I've been following your sitch. I'm a noob and in a similar sitch, so I don't have any real advice to offer. Your W does sound like mine in a way. My W said she wanted a D, was texting some dweeb for a few weeks, had it blow up on her, and has still not moved towards D. Of course, she hasn't moved towards R either, but whatever. Anyway, I guess like everyone says, be the best that you can be, and hang in there!
Hi Terapin, sorry you are going through the same thing it's a rough road. Have you been able to pull back? Are you still in the same house?
Hi Paul. I've been following your sitch. I'm a noob and in a similar sitch, so I don't have any real advice to offer. Your W does sound like mine in a way. My W said she wanted a D, was texting some dweeb for a few weeks, had it blow up on her, and has still not moved towards D. Of course, she hasn't moved towards R either, but whatever. Anyway, I guess like everyone says, be the best that you can be, and hang in there!
Hi Terapin, sorry you are going through the same thing it's a rough road. Have you been able to pull back? Are you still in the same house?
Thanks. Yeah, I've been DB'ing, GALing, etc (somewhat. lol). We're still in the same house, but not in the same bed (although unfortunately that started a while ago, not just since BD). My W has gotten drunk and nuts a few times during this. Like I said, your sitch and mine seem somewhat similar, so I'm going to stay interested in your progress!
Edit: In my sitch, there has still been ZERO sex, and very little physical contact or affection at all.
Paul,
Have read over your sitch and looks like good progress is being made. I wish you the best and will continue to check in. Best wishes. Take care.
Thanks. Yeah, I've been DB'ing, GALing, etc (somewhat. lol). We're still in the same house, but not in the same bed (although unfortunately that started a while ago, not just since BD). My W has gotten drunk and nuts a few times during this. Like I said, your sitch and mine seem somewhat similar, so I'm going to stay interested in your progress!
Edit: In my sitch, there has still been ZERO sex, and very little physical contact or affection at all.
Hey Terapin found your threads and read through, tough situation. Wish I could give you advice but this is new to me. There are some similarities though in our situations. I found I couldn't move ahead until I truly let go, I was mad too I was going to go file on my own and say here now you got what you want. Once I accepted it and let go things started to change, and my anger, self hate, guilt, and frustration fell away, I was stripped of it, and it felt good. I am going through life right now feeling that my wife doesn't want me, and I am OK with that. And it seems the more I accept it the more responsive she is. Still have a long road ahead.
Paul,
Have read over your sitch and looks like good progress is being made. I wish you the best and will continue to check in. Best wishes. Take care.
Thanks for the support Seekn
Thanks. Yeah, I've been DB'ing, GALing, etc (somewhat. lol). We're still in the same house, but not in the same bed (although unfortunately that started a while ago, not just since BD). My W has gotten drunk and nuts a few times during this. Like I said, your sitch and mine seem somewhat similar, so I'm going to stay interested in your progress!
Edit: In my sitch, there has still been ZERO sex, and very little physical contact or affection at all.
Hey Terapin found your threads and read through, tough situation. Wish I could give you advice but this is new to me. There are some similarities though in our situations. I found I couldn't move ahead until I truly let go, I was mad too I was going to go file on my own and say here now you got what you want. Once I accepted it and let go things started to change, and my anger, self hate, guilt, and frustration fell away, I was stripped of it, and it felt good. I am going through life right now feeling that my wife doesn't want me, and I am OK with that. And it seems the more I accept it the more responsive she is. Still have a long road ahead.
Paul,
Have read over your sitch and looks like good progress is being made. I wish you the best and will continue to check in. Best wishes. Take care.
Thanks for the support Seekn
"feeling that my wife doesn't want me". That's a very good attitude to have, and I'm going to try incorporating that into my thoughts. Every time she says or does something that bothers or confuses me, "so what, she doesn't want me anyway". Thanks!
Well heading for my second appointment with C this morning. Feeling off today feeling stuck feeling like maybe I am backsliding. Honestly feel like just leaving the house today and it's not even anything specific just don't feel like being around my W. Really don't feel like talking today to anyone and that's the issue that put my marriage in trouble to begin with. Can't really "go dark" because that's what put my marriage in trouble.
paul, please do not confuse detachment with "going dark". It is a common mistake. And there is nothing wrong with alone time! That is what GAL is all about.
You see, LBSs often fall into this trap of "I was an absent spouse prior to BD, so I can't GAL and detach". This is patently untrue.
First, there is a difference between being absent and GAL/detachment. When you are absent you are emotionally unavailable even when you are there physically. GAL and Detachment means that when you are around physically you are present, upbeat, pleased etc.
Second, after BD the last thing the WAS wants is to be smothered! This is the mistake that almost all LBSs make. "I was absent before BD, it hurt my spouse. WHen they dropped the bomb I realized I had to be around 24/7!" But here is the problem, after BD the last thing the WAS wants is to be around you! That i what giving them time and space is about.
Make sure you understand GAL and detachment and 180ing. Don't get tripped up by misunderstanding what they realy are.
Thanks Steve for the pep talk. Just having am off day today. Feeling stuck. I am at a point where I am wanted and accepted around the house but still feeling emotionally cut off. I know it would be a mistake to push my W at this point. At the same time feeling angry about the EA. Worried that it might continue. This makes me want to pack up and leave and shur myself off. I realize doing this is not GAL it is back sliding into all the things that pushed my wife to want a D. Just gonna have to slog through the day here and hopefully I can get back on track.
You are under extreme stress
There is biological fight or flight response
So important to de stress
Be the steady one
You are still attached
So when she is nice to you then you are happy
And when she is cold then you feel bad
Detachment is the path to be steady and strong and independent no matter how she treats you
How to re center your life from w at the center to you at the center
You will find peace there
And ultimately this is more attractive to women
The strong and steady and independent man
Who can handle anything that is thrown his way
If you start acting this way
W may notice and ask how you are
Just say fine
How are you
Very common when you stop being weak and attached
She will think something is up
Maybe she is getting dumped
And maybe you are moving on
After some thought about how I was feeling I think I have reached a plateau where I have finally completely detached myself emotionally from my W. This is not to say that I don't want to save my marriage but I think I have complete acceptance of the possibility of her leaving for good and I am honestly ok with that fact. I could easily pack my things at this point and leave without feeling like a failure or walking around feeling like I have been punched in the gut. We are slowly reconciling but she is still skeptical of my change and she told me last night she has a fear of us fully resuming our relationship and then me falling back into old patterns. Keeping in mind my goal is to still save my marriage I am not sure exactly what to do with this feeling I am having. I am not sure at this point what to do to perhaps bring her closer to me. I could just carry on like I have been and see where it goes or perhaps it's time for me to pull back a bit to see what happens. I have some thinking to do for sure on what the best choice is right now.
Hang in there buddy. From reading the thread, it seems your W is getting a little woozy and confused by your actions. Which means you're on the right track. Keep her guessing. The guessing leads to curiousity. And curiousity leads to reaching back.
GL!
That is s good and healthy feeling
You are going through the stages of the LBS
When you are strong enough to walk away
You then have the real decision to make
Do I stand for my m or do I walk away
Had a rough go yesterday, woke up feeling off, backslid a bit, wife sensed it, she was irritated with me. The entire day turned into her trying to fight with me because I couldn't commit to taking our son to hockey every week. She was hard on me it was like the old days, but I did my best not to be dragged into it. When she was leaving for work I cornered her and asked her what the issue is today and she was angry and told me I was never going to change and I just listened then let her go. She got home about 11:30 and had calmed right down. We watched some TV then went to bed. I was getting ready to go this morning and she said something to me and I couldn't believe my ears I thought I misheard her so I said "pardon" and she said "I am sorry I was so hard on you yesterday" it blew me away. First time I have gotten an apology from her in 8 years. I simply said "it's OK thank you for the apology though". Such a small thing but so meaningful to me to hear an apology from someone who has never been capable of it. It shows shes thinking about her own behavior.
So what did you do differently to illicit this response? Also do you think the asking her what her issue was showed weakness or strength?
Remember, actions, not words. Don't ask her what her issue is, SHOW her you aren't willing to take her abuse.
So what did you do differently to illicit this response? Also do you think the asking her what her issue was showed weakness or strength?
Remember, actions, not words. Don't ask her what her issue is, SHOW her you aren't willing to take her abuse.
I did Steve in the afternoon I told her she was way out of line. She reacted. I left the room. I think it was a big step for me not to get dragged into a fight because I was itching to give her both barrels trust me this used to be my normal reaction. I was happy with the outcome her apology was big for me it's not something I have seen from her over our marriage, it shows she's willing todo the right thing when she over reacts.
Wheels on the bus go round and round...yeah. Working on it, working on it. Touching base folks things are going...OK. Wish I had more energy right now to slobber out the last couple weeks of the roller coaster but I have disconnected to the point that it doesn't matter much anymore. Sex has been good. Some affection. Sleeping in the same bed for the first time in 5 years. Financial situation is as bad as it's been in 30 years for me. But neglect of my business to save my marriage has been a factor. So yeah, keep plugging ahead. Hang in there folks.
I see so many sob stories here about WAS and so many folks falling into the trap. Some of you have no hope, your spouse is going to leave you no matter what. If that's the case it doesn't matter, write it off and GAL, because you are powerless to change it. If you can change it great, good for you, catch it early on, do your best, that's all you can do. If you can't do that get out and live folks, live your life, make the best of it, because it's short. Let your WAS smother in their affairs, and they will. Let them seek that short term gratification, then stick their heads over the fence and realize the grass isn't greener. GAL and live people, you deserve it, disconnect, it's not easy, but you can. And when you can let go you will be free, and you will have your life, and love it, and embrace it, and live. My advice to all of you.
Paul
Wife is back for the most part, so in love right now, things are great. Counseling has been good I will keep going. Work hard folks it will pay off. I might have saved my marriage.
I have merged your two threads together. Your original thread had 40 postings and we ask that posters to keep to one thread until you have reached the 100 posting/reply limit. You can change the subject line in your thread at any time.
Wife is back for the most part, so in love right now, things are great. Counseling has been good I will keep going. Work hard folks it will pay off. I might have saved my marriage.
Congratulations Paul. That sounds like things are on the right track. One thing I have been reminding myself since we moved into full blown R in late March early April is that the work is NOT done.
In fact, I have had to be DILIGENT in maintaining my 180s. A couple of weeks ago I had something come up at home that used to make me anxious, and therefore lash out. I had to take deep breaths and keep repeating to myself "180. 180. 180." The point is that the work doesn't stop with R. Please remember this Paul. You should keep on working! Keep a healthy level of detachment (look up self differentiation in marriage). Keep GAL (most spouses find a busy, active partner to be attractive), and definitely cement any 180s firmly for the future.
Well I want to say thus far I am succeeding folks. My wife is back for the most part, she has cut her EA off to my knowledge and we are tighter than we have ever been. For those who have little faith in what you have learned here trust me it works stick to the program, GAL, work on yourself. Can I guarantee it 100% no I cannot, but it's worked for me thus far, things are a still bit rocky but as far as my marriage it's way better than it ever was I am so in love with my wife and I believe she feels the same. The key for me right now is not to back slide I will keep working ahead and make the best of my new chance.
Great news Paul! Yes you are right, you need to focus on staying the course and not backsliding. This has been my biggest focus through R and piecing. Making sure the 180s I instituted are permanent.
Paul, congrats! Proceed with caution though. If you fall back into old habits you will find yourself in the same spot. DB'ing is for life. Stick with your 180's. Do some soul-searching about what worked to rebuild things and what didn't work, and keep doing what is working.
Just as a warning to other LBS's reading this, a few months is a blazing fast turnaround but if you go back and read the first couple of pages, a couple of us did comment that it seemed like Paul's W was not a full-blown WAS yet. So he may have gotten lucky and caught things early enough to turn it around before she went full BD. Timing helps a lot, unfortunately most of us don't have a clue until the hour is late.
Just as a warning to other LBS's reading this, a few months is a blazing fast turnaround but if you go back and read the first couple of pages, a couple of us did comment that it seemed like Paul's W was not a full-blown WAS yet. So he may have gotten lucky and caught things early enough to turn it around before she went full BD. Timing helps a lot, unfortunately most of us don't have a clue until the hour is late.
This is so true! I think a good indicator is who initiates BD. In my sitch, which turned around quickly (which is atypical), I initiated BD because I could tell something wasn't quite right. Snooped, found messages between her and OM, and took action.
If she had initiated BD she would have been much further down the path to WAS/WW status.
LBSs, listen to AS here. Most sitched take MONTHS, and even YEARS. Patience is a must.
Just as a warning to other LBS's reading this, a few months is a blazing fast turnaround but if you go back and read the first couple of pages, a couple of us did comment that it seemed like Paul's W was not a full-blown WAS yet. So he may have gotten lucky and caught things early enough to turn it around before she went full BD. Timing helps a lot, unfortunately most of us don't have a clue until the hour is late.
Very true I think my WAW wanted to scare me into coming around, and she did, yes I am lucky in some ways I may have had a better chance than some, but what I learned here did work and I hope it works for all of you.
paulzee, I too got lucky. I caught mine early, confronted initiating BD. But i think she dropped the D bomb to get me to back off. (And it worked, once she wanted a D I completely forgot about, mostly, about her EA.) The lucky part was that her EA ended shortly after that. She did almost move on to OM2, but she was very gun shy after the first EA ended. And that's when I started DBing very well.