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Posted By: Notavic mixed messages - 08/06/18 11:49 PM
DH is 62. I'm 57. He had an affair about 3 years ago. He decided not to leave me, but only cut contact at my insistence. I had gotten and read the DB book, but can't find it, so I've got one on order.

Lately, I've been teary, clingy, and desperate after seeing the OW for the first time in nearly 2 years. I was cool at the time, but ended up later "confronting" my husband with the level of eye contact he was giving her (they were across the room from each other). Our conversation eventually deteriorated to the point where he said we married young, we hadn't been a couple in a long time, but we were "friends." I told him that his level of resentment towards me (he keeps bringing up the fact that I'm the breadwinner) is unsustainable and either he gets professional help, or he leaves. He eventually called the therapy practice that I'm using and left a message.

I have a really hard time knowing what to do in this type of situation. He's done with the OW as far as deliberate contact goes, but he obviously sees me as "not a wife". OTOH, he invites me to his concerts (he's a musician) and thanks me profusely for coming. I'm so d@mn confused about all of this right now.
Posted By: Cadet Re: mixed messages - 08/06/18 11:53 PM
Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 12:09 AM
Thank you so much, Cadet! It's very helpful to have all this in one place. Just reading the first page of the "Stages of the LBS" thread has helped me feel less crazy.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 06:18 PM
I would start by reading the book, have you gotten a copy yet?

Has your husband dropped a major bomb on you? Like's he leaving, etc.

Is he cheating again? Are you two in counseling?
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 06:34 PM
I've ordered the book and it's on its way.
About 2 years ago he said he was thinking of a separation but because the o w had too much baggage he decided to stay with me. I don't think he's cheating again but he has said that we haven't been a couple in years and that we are friends. He resents me for being the breadwinner. I've been in counseling for about a year-and-a-half And have recently insisted that he get counseling due to his high level of resentment. He wouldn't go to marriage counseling when he decided not to leave because he said he doesn't want to be the bad guy. I've recently become aware that I had been resenting him for his lack of Breadwinner role, although I denied it to myself. I've basically been the pursuer for the last 2 years with him, pretending that everything was perfectly wonderful when it's not. I've been increasingly GAL, But I miss having a husband. But I can't force the role on him.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 07:39 PM
I have broken just about all of Sandy's 37 rules, which I'm now going to have to reread every day!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 07:48 PM
Notavic, it is interesting that you mention the breadwinner issue. We've had quite a few new posters recently mostly from LBHs, where the usual male-breadwinner role was reversed, and the W became the breadwinner. I've anecdotally known several couples (including my sister) who were in such arrangements. Only 1 of the 10 or so I know of have been successful long term. Eventually resentments and problems have arisen. I told the tragic story in 1 of my posts (I wish I could find it) where I told the story of some very dear friends of mine. In their case the H had type 1 diabetes severely, and therefore the W had to be the breadwinner. But eventually the same resentments cropped up, and she became a WAW. Her H lived a little over a year before the stress of the breakup of their marriage literally killed him. It was just too much on top of his severe diabetes.

You are at the right place. GAL, detaching, 180s and being the best you can be will go a long way towards potentially turning your sitch around. But if it doesn't it will prepare you for the next chapter of your life.

Keep posting. This is a great forum with a great set of people that really want to help!
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 09:48 PM
Thanks so much, Steve. It's good to know I'm not alone, but disheartening to hear the lack of success in such situations. As you can see from my signature, dh is a baby boomer, and feels lied to, as far as the "work hard, get an education, and you'll do fine." Society has changed so much in the last couple of decades. Anyway, I'm starting to realize my own wrong turns and bad decisions in the R. Hope it can turn around.
Posted By: bhappy2 Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by Notavic
Anyway, I'm starting to realize my own wrong turns and bad decisions in the R. Hope it can turn around.


Of course you can, follow the advice here and you will succeed no matter what. Just take it one day at a time. Post as many questions as you can, this site has many people who have been right in your very situation.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/07/18 11:16 PM
Originally Posted by bhappy2
Originally Posted by Notavic
Anyway, I'm starting to realize my own wrong turns and bad decisions in the R. Hope it can turn around.


Of course you can, follow the advice here and you will succeed no matter what. Just take it one day at a time. Post as many questions as you can, this site has many people who have been right in your very situation.


Wow! Thank you!!
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/08/18 04:10 AM
Just since I've started reading here, I have realized the many, many things I've done incorrectly in this R. My dh has been telling me that I've changed. I literally didn't see it. I couldn't see past his affair. So much anger and hurt. Now, I realize that I have been distant and resentful of him. Then, of course, I broke all of Sandy's rules once he started to pull away. So much clinging and following, and oversharing with friends, and begging, and aggressiveness, and trying to buy his affection. Now that he's told me that we are "friends," as opposed to a couple, I'm finally in a place to believe him and act accordingly.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: mixed messages - 08/08/18 11:56 AM
Originally Posted by Notavic
Just since I've started reading here, I have realized the many, many things I've done incorrectly in this R. My dh has been telling me that I've changed. I literally didn't see it. I couldn't see past his affair. So much anger and hurt. Now, I realize that I have been distant and resentful of him. Then, of course, I broke all of Sandy's rules once he started to pull away. So much clinging and following, and oversharing with friends, and begging, and aggressiveness, and trying to buy his affection. Now that he's told me that we are "friends," as opposed to a couple, I'm finally in a place to believe him and act accordingly.


We all made those mistakes at first. When you get bombed you really aren't prepared. Once you find DB/DR after you search due to BD, that is when you realize your mistakes. The good news is that it is never too late to start!
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/08/18 01:53 PM
Originally Posted by Steve85
Originally Posted by Notavic
Just since I've started reading here, I have realized the many, many things I've done incorrectly in this R. My dh has been telling me that I've changed. I literally didn't see it. I couldn't see past his affair. So much anger and hurt. Now, I realize that I have been distant and resentful of him. Then, of course, I broke all of Sandy's rules once he started to pull away. So much clinging and following, and oversharing with friends, and begging, and aggressiveness, and trying to buy his affection. Now that he's told me that we are "friends," as opposed to a couple, I'm finally in a place to believe him and act accordingly.


We all made those mistakes at first. When you get bombed you really aren't prepared. Once you find DB/DR after you search due to BD, that is when you realize your mistakes. The good news is that it is never too late to start!


Thanks, Steve.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/08/18 03:19 PM
On the topic of boundaries:

Before DB-ing, I had insisted that dh get counseling or our life together would be over. After a LOT of pressuring on my part, he did call the practice and left a message. Now that I'm DB-ing, I'm seeing that as more of an ultimatum on my part, and not a real boundary.

My question is this:

Should I just drop it, then? I mean, I can't control whether he goes, and even if I did control that, I can't control whether or not he is ready to use therapy to it's greatest extent.

OTOH, If I don't bring it up again, doesn't that make me look weak?
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/09/18 10:36 PM
So, a tiny victory today. H was going up to our camping trailer and ended up not visiting our S as planned. It was hard for me not to pry and ask details, but I didn't. I need to start treating him like an adult and not like a child.

I'm also planning on some GAL time. I've been doing some things, but I need to fill my schedule more. The ironic (or maybe not) thing is, H has basically been GAL-ing, too. Which is tough for me, because I'd like nothing more than him wanting to be with me. Which means I need to GAL.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/10/18 08:15 PM
I cried in the movie theater today
when Winnie the Pooh told Piglet, a bundle of pink anxiety,
"Come on, Piglet. We need you."

Because we don't.

I cried because I need him
and I can't tell him.
It would be begging. Bringing up the relationship.
And, I can't do that.

I cried because he's running.
And I don't know where the journey will end.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/10/18 10:41 PM
How do I get over being so angry? I'm so angry that my h doesn't want to do anything together and resents *me* when he's the one who had the affair.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/14/18 02:13 PM
Didn't sleep much last night, and/but woke up very early and wide awake. Upon going outside, and noticing it was delightfully cool, I asked H if he wanted to sit w/me with whatever reading device he chose. He came out w/a book and we sat in reading silence for quite a while. I made each of us a microwave muffin-in-a-mug and some coffee.

After doing DB's suggestion of writing down everything that annoys your partner about you and doing the opposite, I resolved to stay calm and relatively quiet. Seems to have worked. My poor therapist has been saying for a year and a half that I need to slow down (physically, verbally...) and I'm finally in a place to hear the message.
Posted By: Phoenix9 Re: mixed messages - 08/14/18 04:02 PM
Originally Posted by Notavic


I cried because I need him
and I can't tell him.
It would be begging. Bringing up the relationship.
And, I can't do that.

I cried because he's running.
And I don't know where the journey will end.


*hug*

You're not alone in this. I'm going through something similar. One day at a time. Marathon not sprint.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/14/18 05:04 PM
Thanks, pain18. I appreciate it.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: mixed messages - 08/14/18 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by Notavic
I've basically been the pursuer for the last 2 years with him, pretending that everything was perfectly wonderful when it's not.


I assume you've stopped the pursuit behavior now that you're reading Sandi's rules every day? Those should be your template for how to behave. He's probably been feeling a lot of pressure and you want to remove the pressure.

Originally Posted by Notavic
I've been increasingly GAL, But I miss having a husband. But I can't force the role on him.


Can you clarify what's missing in the M? Sounds like he's still there and you are still doing things together, just curious what you want in the M that is missing. Are you basically living together as roommates?
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/15/18 11:41 AM
Yes, I've stopped the begging and crying. I'm trying to differentiate what is "pursuit behavior" (other than *that*) and what is normal. I don't want to go cold.

Roommates, yes. We do things together, but he is still running away. Part of it is my panic, too. We're doing a dance of me as the controller and him running away from being controlled. I'm just now learning that it is a 2-way street. It's hard, sometimes, to see beyond the A and how horrible that was.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/16/18 04:32 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by Notavic
I've basically been the pursuer for the last 2 years with him, pretending that everything was perfectly wonderful when it's not.


I assume you've stopped the pursuit behavior now that you're reading Sandi's rules every day? Those should be your template for how to behave. He's probably been feeling a lot of pressure and you want to remove the pressure.

Originally Posted by Notavic
I've been increasingly GAL, But I miss having a husband. But I can't force the role on him.


Can you clarify what's missing in the M? Sounds like he's still there and you are still doing things together, just curious what you want in the M that is missing. Are you basically living together as roommates?



What's missing is him thinking of this as a marriage. The last time I tried a R talk, he said we married young, hadn't been a couple in a long time, and were "friends." That's not a marriage. I'm angry, that nearly 2 years out of the A, this is where he is.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: mixed messages - 08/16/18 06:27 PM
Originally Posted by Notavic
What's missing is him thinking of this as a marriage. The last time I tried a R talk, he said we married young, hadn't been a couple in a long time, and were "friends." That's not a marriage. I'm angry, that nearly 2 years out of the A, this is where he is.


Have you read The 5 Love Languages? It might be helpful. I sense that you and your H both feel like your needs aren't being met, and perhaps you're both waiting for the other to do something about it. I don't think your H is a full-blown WAS, maybe he is but it doesn't sound like it. It just sounds like an unhappy M. Read the 5LL and try some of the techniques on him and see if it starts making a difference.
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/16/18 07:06 PM
Originally Posted by AnotherStander
Originally Posted by Notavic
What's missing is him thinking of this as a marriage. The last time I tried a R talk, he said we married young, hadn't been a couple in a long time, and were "friends." That's not a marriage. I'm angry, that nearly 2 years out of the A, this is where he is.


Have you read The 5 Love Languages? It might be helpful. I sense that you and your H both feel like your needs aren't being met, and perhaps you're both waiting for the other to do something about it. I don't think your H is a full-blown WAS, maybe he is but it doesn't sound like it. It just sounds like an unhappy M. Read the 5LL and try some of the techniques on him and see if it starts making a difference.


That's very astute of you, actually. When we were in counseling decades ago, it was pointed out to us that each of us thought he/she did the bulk of the work. One of his love languages is food, but he's literally never home for me to cook. But, I will have to get a copy of that book and read it. Thanks for the suggestion.
Posted By: Gordie Re: mixed messages - 08/16/18 11:00 PM
N

Welcome

Do not put too much weight on what he says

In that moment he said you were friends

He may feel differently moment to moment

Or day to day or season to season

Actions speak louder

Good news no a and he is still there

Bad news he is undecided on the m

I am 7 months past her a

And my w still does not know what she wants

So I understand the anger and resentment

Take lots of care for yourself

You are taking the right steps

Avoiding what makes things worse

And doing what makes things better

GAL
Posted By: Notavic Re: mixed messages - 08/17/18 01:09 AM
Thank you, GAL. He's doing a LOT around the house, which he had all but stopped during the A. And, as you said, he is,still here, and had made,the decision on his own not to leave the M. I am trying to pick up where I left off with my own recovery.
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