Advice on my Scenario Pt. 21 - Garden in my Bucket

Link to old thread - http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2802881&page=11

My focus is on Zen. I have a bunch of Eastern Philosophy books i want to read on Non-Attachment, spirituality and so forth. I think looking to the East for some methods of meditation, dropping attachment, and being at peace with the flow of the world is going to be important to me.

If you have been following my posts, you will see my recents posts about my "Anger Bucket", hence the name of the new thread.

Its time I left anger in my past.
Its time to plant flowers in my Anger Bucket.

Quote

Steve, Yes, i still have detachment to work on, we all know that.
I have a compunction to think my sitch has gone on for such a long time, when in retrospect it really is still quite fresh.
I posted about this yesterday. Your thoughts on that post??

Yep. Nothing really came to mind. I think you are right. In the pit of the sitch we think so much time has passed, but in the big scheme of things it is very small. I think your sitch is a little different, but I wrote a lengthy post in my own thread about how LBHs always think that BD is the start of their MR problems. But in most cases, the WASs has had her minde made up for at least 2 years prior to BD that the MR was really over.

Time is a great topic to discuss in these sitches because most of the time the LBS has a skewed view of it.

What about my sitch do you think is different in this regard Steve?

You've said she married you under false pretenses. So your sitch is different than the long time marriage where the W checks and starts working on her escape.

Ahh yes. That has been a point I have found has made it difficult to navigate DB. Where others with WAW, the WAW has had lots of time to grow discontent, and the WAW still has a normal emotional range as opposed to PDWIFE who is strictly motivated by admiration, attention and lacks any form of remorse, compassion or regret.

Its like she just totally morphs into a different human being every 3-5 years.
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Some energy field is off whack or something, emotions have been high across the board.
I had a REALLY tough day on Monday, My brother had an equally crappy day yesterday (he still deals with a lot of issues stemming from our eldest brothers death). Lots of people around me have been confrontational and argumentative.

Lastly the uncanny silence of PDWIFE is still unnerving. I feel like she slipped behind the curtains to plan or plot some nefarious scheme.
It disgusts me that the woman i once pledged my life to, is now someone I have to think of like a supervillan.
Like what evil plan will she hatch next.
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S3 told me yesterday that Monday when he was picked up from school by OM, he spent the afternoon / evening with OM alone at his house, then OM drove the 45 min (opposite direction from where he works, making his commute like 1.5 hrs) to drop S3 off at MIL's house when PDWIFE got out of work at 8pm. SO S3 gets dropped off at like 8:30. Sees his mom for maybe 30min then goes to bed.
OM has become a taxi driver and baby sitter, and he is parenting my son more than WIFE is.

All i can say to that is..............wow...........wtf.
When you look from the outside its so easy to see how much and how blatantly PDWIFE uses people.
Best of luck to you OM! lol.

Ok, odd update.

3 days ago a woman reached out to me on Instagram.
We have been chatting a bit,
There are a fair amount of similarities between her and WIFE. Style, Looks, Likes/Dislikes etc.

this girl seems cool, and is smart and I enjoy talking to her, but the whole "Came out of left field" thing is throwing me off.
Its the same way i began talking with PDWIFE.

Plus the personal similarities.

Very odd. I try to give the benefit of the doubt, and i have no intentions on a new Relationship, but having someone to talk to is enjoyable.

OK, this is the way it is most of the time. When you least expect to meet someone is usually when you do.

My general advice to LBSs is to avoid dating until they are in a healthy place. But your sitch is such that I don't think that general advice applies. As long as you are upfront with her about your sitch, and honest with yourself about how well you've healed.

And yes, there is nothing wrong with talking to someone!

Its just odd how similar they are.
Like they could pass for frikkin sisters!! so weird.

Plus my IG profile is private, so im curious why she reached out.

Updates to follow as this develops or fizzles out.

Hey Orange,

what does "PDWife" stand for?

And yes that's crappy what your wife is doing. It [censored] to get caught up in the spouse like that, but those feelings can be a good reminder to detach further and find happiness for ourselves.

I'm sure OM feels like he is a real gem.

Possibly Disordered. I have very VERY strong suspiscions that she has some cocktail of NPD and BPD traits.

She will never go see an IC to confirm this though, as she thinks nothing is wrong with her.

the effectiveness of the "Silent Treatment" is real.

For someone that I want as little contact and dealings with as humanly possible, the silence from Her is really bothering me.

It allows for all manner of future guessery.
-Is she plotting?
-Is she sad/upset about court ruling?
-Is she experiencing loss and beginning to regret decisions she's made?
-Does she simply not give a F?
-Is she just busy?

I dont really care which of these scenarios is the case, i just dont like the "What is she planning to do" feeling?
She has gotten so antagonistic and manipulative, its hard not to fret over when the other shoe drops....

Hi Orange. Just don�t waste energy into that mind reading. Go on with GAL.

GAL is always a given. Thats a constant.
but if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. I cannot simply choose what bubbles up in my mind. If I could somehow stop myself from having these types of thoughts I would do it in a heartbeat. just because I'm trying to avoid Dwelling on it does not mean that I am able to stop thinking about things. I still don't know for the life of me how you all pick and choose your thought processes and are able to just package up a certain piece of your situation that's bothering you and never think about it again. I have tried time and time again and I cannot compartmentalize these thoughts. I just have to cope with them which is why I post here to vent

Originally Posted by OrangeK

GAL is always a given. Thats a constant.
but if I've said it once I've said it a thousand times. I cannot simply choose what bubbles up in my mind. If I could somehow stop myself from having these types of thoughts I would do it in a heartbeat. just because I'm trying to avoid Dwelling on it does not mean that I am able to stop thinking about things. I still don't know for the life of me how you all pick and choose your thought processes and are able to just package up a certain piece of your situation that's bothering you and never think about it again. I have tried time and time again and I cannot compartmentalize these thoughts. I just have to cope with them which is why I post here to vent

I think I've answered this before, but the way I did it was to keep my mind busy. At work I dove into work. At home I was always busy doing something. The gun range was a great escape from these thoughts. The times I struggled with my thoughts were the times I was inactive, and just sitting stewing in my thoughts. I got advice here and other places to stay busy from the minute I woke up until the minute I fell asleep.

I asked you yesterday what you had planned for after work. You said workout then be bored at your brother's house. That is danger time. I didn't push back because sometimes you react badly to being questioned, but there are ways to STAY busy, that don't cost anything.

Being busy is the key to escaping the thoughts that bubble up, but you have to commit to it.

This probably didn't help, but since you brought up not knowing how others do it.

honestly, even when doing gal activities it's still pretty frequently on my mind. being busy doesn't really seem to help. I'm not spinning out emotionally today like I was on Monday, but I do not foresee a day where she doesn't cross my mind happening for a really long time if ever. I feel like I have made a lot of strides in realizing that she is toxic and abusive and Reconciliation would be a bad idea for us. I feel like this boards definition of Detachment is potentially unattainable for me. I do not spin out emotionally like I used to as badly or nearly as often, but as far as Detachment goes I don't feel as though I've made much progress at all. to imagine a time where she has absolutely zero impact on my mood and does not invade my thoughts on a regular basis seems like a fantasy to me

Here is an idea....the next time your mind starts to get invaded by thoughts of PDWIFE, send your new instagram friend a message. Keep doing this. Eventually you'll skip the first part (having your thoughts invaded by PDWIFE) and to right to the second part (messaging your new instagram friend).

that has been a good distraction. lol.

Honestly though there are red flags there too, or maybe im just paranoid.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

that has been a good distraction. lol.

Honestly though there are red flags there too, or maybe im just paranoid.

Just have fun for now.

really odd feelings last few days.
Very restless, fidgety and nervous. Dunno why.
Man, do i miss contentment, feeling rested and calm.

I may not be angry RN, or sad, whatever, but i am not calm. or at peace.
I dont remember what those feel like if im being honest.
I think Probably around Christmas 2016 was the last time i felt complete.

Yea, its the silence. Ill admit it all day. I dont like it. I dont like feeling like i need to expect some event from her.
Moreover i have been tempted all day to reach out to her.
Ask how potty training is going on her end, send a photo of S3 later when were home.
Its the addiction rearing its head.

i still crave her attention, even if its negative. thats not healthy. I wish i could go to a damn hypnotists and have memories of her erased.....

Originally Posted by OrangeK

honestly, even when doing gal activities it's still pretty frequently on my mind. being busy doesn't really seem to help. I'm not spinning out emotionally today like I was on Monday, but I do not foresee a day where she doesn't cross my mind happening for a really long time if ever. I feel like I have made a lot of strides in realizing that she is toxic and abusive and Reconciliation would be a bad idea for us. I feel like this boards definition of Detachment is potentially unattainable for me. I do not spin out emotionally like I used to as badly or nearly as often, but as far as Detachment goes I don't feel as though I've made much progress at all. to imagine a time where she has absolutely zero impact on my mood and does not invade my thoughts on a regular basis seems like a fantasy to me

When I was in basic, guys would get homesick or just feel like life really sucked (I guess it kinda did then). We just focused on finishing what we were doing and getting to the next meal.

Bad thoughts pop up, you're right, but you empower them by choosing to think on them as opposed to going on and on worrying about what will only upset you.

Gonna go home and immerse myself in the only thing that truly gets my mind off PDWIFE and my sitch, writing game material.

My gamenights have gotten cancelled numerous times recently which sux.

I have S3 tonight, so ill focus on him till his bedtime.
I feel like a crap dad because sometimes i feel reluctant to be with S3 because he makes me think of Her, and the fact that we arent raising our son together, and that OM is playing role of 2nd father figure, which i F***ing HATE.

OK, I just thought of something. Have you ever seen the movie "Let Me In"?

Its about a vampire (they don't age so she is perpetually a little girl (though there are hints in the movie that she might have once been male)). She "attaches" an enabler who goes out and murders victims to feed her with their blood. I think they are a guardian or something. Once they grow up and get old, she moves on to a younger guardian.

That sounds like your STBXW. Using someone until they no longer suit her purposes. As you've said, OM's day is coming..........

Steve that sounds about right. Im a big fan of folklore, including Vampires. Ill have to check that out.

Sorry to continue that tangent, but that film is based on a Swedish film "Let the Right One In" (an even better title in my opinion), which is excellent in its own right. I recommend both of them, but be warned they are dark and bloody.

I had never previously thought about it in terms of codependent relationships, but it works pretty well. Now I want to go back and watch them again with fresh eyes!

Yes, I know the Swedish version gets a lot of good reviews. I actually preferred the American-British one (Let Me In) because I thought the acting was better. Plus I get annoyed having to read subtitles.

Oh, also the American-British version is set in the early 80s with a few pop-culture references to that decade.....and that's the decade I grew up in!

Big update. STBXW submitted a motion contesting the courts decision regarding the allocation of Daycare Cost to her.
Here is what she wrote to the court. Verbatim, grammatical errors included. Also, its handwritten in scratchy, all capitol letters. This is very odd, as in the past STBXW has always showed very clean and much neater penmanship. I would be embarrassed to submit this document looking this way.

Petitioner = Me
Respondent = Her

Cover Sheet:
"Dear Clerk of Court:

Although this motion is not being filed Ex Parte, I respectfully ask if the Court might give this filing expedited attention as the welfare of my minor child is jeopardy with regard to his day care status as a result of financial hardship as explained in the motion."

Main Page:

Motion For: Reconsideration of Notice of Decision.

"The notice of decision issued on 7/18/18 states that the temporary orders as issued by the court on 5/25/18 do not require the petitioner to split the cost of daycare with the respondent. I feel that this decision is contrary to the courts decision and temporary orders of 5/25/18, specifically as it relates to the facts of the courts granting a deviation to the guidelines level of support under RSA 458-C:5 (h). The courts order on scheduling conference and temporary hearing speaks clearly to the fact that both parties had been splitting daycare cost even though the petitioner earns significantly more income than the respondent. Both parties reported the respective shares of the cost of daycare on the individual financial affidavits filed with the court and used in the calculation of child support.
The notice of decision dates 7/18/18 creates severe financial hardship on the respondent and jeopardizes the ability to maintain daycare for the minor child, S3.
I respectfully request that the court reconsider its decision and instruct the petitioner to pay both his share of the daycare as well as the ordered child support under the deviation granted or the the court require revised financial affidavits to be submitted so the the petitioner can no longer claim his half of daycare costs and the child support be recalculated under the guidelines of RSA 458-C:5 (h). If no reconsideration is given, it will be impossible for the respondent to pay for daycare and S3 will not be able to be cared for while both parties are working.
I also respectfully request that this motion be given expedited review and consideration as the petitioner is now not paying any portion of Daycare and in addition the respondent has not yet received any child support payments as ordered by the court. The welfare of S3 and his ability to be safely cared for during weekdays is at stake."

I am in the process of typing up a response to this.

Awfully entitled of her to basically tell the court they made a bade descision.
I dont think a judge will like being told he made a badge Judge-ment. Its kind of....idk.....his job?

A few facts.

1.)STBXW didnt send in the needed docs for Child Support payments to begin until about 2 weeks ago.

2.) The Child Support office has already sent in the needed Docs for Child Support to start coming out of my checks automatically.

3.) I have submitted paperwork to have the court retroactively apply the $1,225.00 i have paid in Daycare costs i wasn't supposed to between May and July to my Child Support payments.

4.) She has 1 day off a week she could keep him out of school for.

5.) the court makes decisions based on Debt to Income Ratio, not simply who makes more $$

Any other questions, tips, advice or recoomendations on how to reply to the court are appreciated.

Below is what i submitted regarding Retroactive Daycare Payments.

"As of May 22nd 2018, I OrangeK, was ordered to begin making child support payments to STBXW in the amount of $95 weekly. At this time it was unclear to me, if I was to also continue to pay half of the daycare costs. As it was unclear and I did not want to neglect my son's daycare obligations I continued to pay $245.00 Bi-Weekly to Childcare Center.
The most recent payment I made to Daycare was on July 18th 2018 in the amount of $245.00.
From May 22nd to July 18th 2018, I paid a total of $1,225.00 in Daycare Tuition. I have attached copies of these checks to this Motion.
I request that the $1,225.00 I made in Daycare Tuition Payments May 22nd Through July 18th 2018 to be retroactively applied to my child support total.
I have been in touch with the Child Support Office and Automatic Payments should be being withdrawn from my income soon."

I love when a WW gets hit with a dose of reality.

Steve, or anyone else (specifically anyone who has completed a D) your opinion on?

1.) how the Judge will take this, considering how its worded?

2.) do you think an adjustment will be made?

3.) I had already submitted A revised financial affidavit in June. Do you think they'll want another one?

4.) This clearly garnered a reaction from her. The handwriting is really bad, like TOTALLY unlike her. Her usual writing is clean and almost arty/decorative.

Lastly. call me crazy. I know this is going to sound loony, but if you all recall I had a really tough day on Monday.
I looked, and that is the day the letter to me was post marked.
She was writing her response the same time I was having a serious emotional episode.
I cant help but feel like Her and I share an emotional connection.
I know thats crazy to think, but it certainly would explain a lot of my random / unexplained emotional down spirals.
Im trying not to take too much stock in this idea, but its a bit too coincidental to disregard out of hand.

1) They are used to this kind of thing.

2) Hard to say. I tend to agree that he may take this as her saying his judgment was wrong and that could be bad for her.

3) Very well could. They always try to get the latest information. You could have received a promotion or raise or a new job since the last one.

4) Mind reading. Maybe she hurt her hand somehow, etc.

On your last point, someone else will have to help since I have zero belief in the supernatural.

Originally Posted by Steve85

1) They are used to this kind of thing.

My L already said "This judge sees through her, and seems to be leaning your way"

Originally Posted by Steve85

2) Hard to say. I tend to agree that he may take this as her saying his judgment was wrong and that could be bad for her.

It all came off as pretty demanding and entitled to me.

Originally Posted by Steve85

3) Very well could. They always try to get the latest information. You could have received a promotion or raise or a new job since the last one.

If they ask i will provide. Itll be exactly the same as the one submitted in June.

Originally Posted by Steve85

4) Mind reading. Maybe she hurt her hand somehow, etc.

Mind reading, perhaps. I dont think so, but ill give you the benefit of doubt here.
Steve, it looks like she wrote this while drunk. Like.....its....Bad.
Mind reading aside, it looks grossly unprofessional and rushed.

Originally Posted by Steve85

On your last point, someone else will have to help since I have zero belief in the supernatural.

Im not inclined to believe this as well, but i cannot think of any other explanation.
Its exactly like the weekend before i got my temporary divorce decree, which she got 3 days earlier than me, as i was away that weekend.

You are going to hate me for this one, you are already offended by most of what I say but really,

If we could erase who's fault this whole divorce is in this situation, the ruling was not fair. It is a very uncommon ruling. Daycare costs and child support costs are exclusive of each other. Technically if you make more money than her, you should be paying a higher percentage of childcare costs (I did).

I've been divorced a long time and have known lots of divorced people with kids, and this is not the way it usually works.

I just want you to be aware.

States and Judges vary i guess Ginger.
Also my state bases Child Support off of Debt to Income Ratio, as well as the allocation of household expenses prior to seperation, not just who makes more Gross Pay.

I have more bills, i Pay rent and she doesnt, plus i was paying approximately 80% of all expenses while we shared a marital home.

Also, there is no "fault" here. I amended my D to be No Contest / No Fault back in April.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

You are going to hate me for this one, you are already offended by most of what I say but really,

Also, to clarify, i cant say you ever Offended me Ginger.
If i disagreed with something you said in the past doesnt mean i was offended.

I would be offended if you said i was a spineless weakling and had no hope of healing, or called me some vulgar name.

Never would I be offended for sharing your opinion in a public dialogue.

However i have had several convo's here about what does and doesnt offend me.

I would like to please keep the topic focused on this new document, if and how i should respond or object to it through the court, and my "Motion to retroactively apply Monies"

Joseph / AS / - Any opinions as Divorced folks on this development?

Here is what I am submitting in response.

"The Petitioner has been unable to make child support payments until recently due to the respondent not submitting the necessary documentation to the state in a timely fashion. The petitioner had called the State Child Support office several times from May 22nd to July 18th to check on the status of this incoming documentation, awaiting the respondent to submit them so that payments could begin. The needed documents to setup direct withdrawal of Child Support monies from the petitioners income have already been sent and is in the process of being setup. The petitioner has also submitted a motion to retroactively apply all Daycare Payments made by the petitioner from May 2nnd to July 18th 2018 to Child Support which, if approved, will cover and exceed any Child Support monies needed from May 22nd to July 18th. The petitioner has previously submitted a revised financial affidavit in June. "

tomorrow marks 2 weeks of complete NC. Longest stretch since TRO was amended to allow us to talk in May.

Good job on the NC. Keep it up. Don't worry about her too much if you can help it.

Yea it was stressing me out at first, but i think i was anxiously anticipating something coming in the mail, which happened.
Now the NC feels much better.
Talking to a new girly doesnt hurt.

Submitted my Motion to Retroactively Apply Daycare to Child Support as well as my response to her Motion about asking the judge to change his decision this morning.

She has S3 all weekend, going to be doing as much GAL as possible, the weather looks crappy so Im hoping for a long game session with The Brotherhood of the Circle (Thats the name of my group for one of my D&D campaigns)

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Submitted my Motion to Retroactively Apply Daycare to Child Support as well as my response to her Motion about asking the judge to change his decision this morning.

I hope you consulted with your attorney first.

Yes. I did.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Steve, or anyone else (specifically anyone who has completed a D) your opinion on?

1.) how the Judge will take this, considering how its worded?
Hes going to take an unbiased look at the facts and try to make a fair decision, but who knows exactly what that will be. She mentions the amount you pay in daycare was used to calculate child support. Is that how your states does it? If so I would expect them to recalculate it

2.) do you think an adjustment will be made?
I think so. As Ginger states, the way it is now is very unusual

3.) I had already submitted A revised financial affidavit in June. Do you think they'll want another one?
If the old one included daycare costs that you are no longer paying, then yes.

4.) This clearly garnered a reaction from her. The handwriting is really bad, like TOTALLY unlike her. Her usual writing is clean and almost arty/decorative.
Sure, seems pretty clear to me. If I wasn't able to pay my child's day care and I was suddenly responsibly for paying the entire bill on-top of not knowing when I would receive child support, I could imagine being panicked also. But she could have smashed her hand, only she knows. Mindreading rarely gives us an accurate picture anyway so let it go

Lastly. call me crazy. I know this is going to sound loony, but if you all recall I had a really tough day on Monday.
I looked, and that is the day the letter to me was post marked.
She was writing her response the same time I was having a serious emotional episode.
I cant help but feel like Her and I share an emotional connection.
I know thats crazy to think, but it certainly would explain a lot of my random / unexplained emotional down spirals.
Im trying not to take too much stock in this idea, but its a bit too coincidental to disregard out of hand.

In a later post you mention talking to a "new girly". Do you think with how often your ex is on your mind its a good ideal to date or even talk with other women? Just curious, I know I wasn't ready when my ex was on my mind that much. Jumping back in too soon is just a just a disaster waiting to happen and ends up with someone getting hurt.

stumbled across the whole load of old pictures from when we were a seemingly happy family. Boy does that suck to find. I really miss when my life seemed so much more simple and happy. sometimes it's hard to believe that everything she did was fake. If it was she did such a good job Faking It. I really thought we would be happy forever and looking at those old photos it certainly look like we would have been. I don't know what the hell happened I really don't

Put the photos back and move on to a more fun and engaging activity. Nothing good will come of reminiscing.

O.....it really depends on the laws in your state. I have a friend that is a judge and he told me that he never awards 50/50 in his court because if the parties make it to him and he has to decide they have already shown they don�t have the ability work together because if they did they would have never had to go in front of him in the first place. My state is 50/50 so both parties are responsible for 1/2 of the costs...medical, daycare, extra curricular activities, braces, etc. Child support is separate and based on income.....in my state someone always pays unless incomes are the same. I make 3 times what my x makes so even though I have 50/50 I still pay her support but it is much less than what I would be paying if I did not have 50/50. All assets and debts are split 50/50 as well

Well S3 is getting a haircut tonight. He threw a 2 hr tantrum yesterday (Typical as his behavior alwasy Sux after a weekend with Mommy Dearest)

After he finally calmed down I asked him what had him so upset, and he just pulled on his own hair.
I asked him if someone had done that to him. He said yes, i asked who, he said Mama.

I asked about again this morning and he said he had pulled her hair and she did it to show him what it felt like.
I know how poorly she handles him at bedtime, its when her lack of any discipline really comes back and bites her in the backside. She has called my at night in hysterics in the past when he was throwing tantrums at bedtime before.

She disgusts me.

Ok. i think my time here as a regular on this board has ended. I will update down the road.

Thank you all for your support and advice.

Hi OrangeK, that is really bad if your wife pulled your son's hair to teach him a lesson. There must be some intermediary who could raise issues like these to her. If she's neglecting him and has such poor parenting skills that she resorts to pulling his hair then even your best efforts to counter her bad behavior won't be enough. Someone like her parents should intervene but it sounds like there's not really much you can do. It's so sad. I feel terrible for your son.

Why is your time as a regular ending? Are you going to try a new approach?

I find the more time i spend here posting the more time i spend thinking of her. The worst is behind me, and i dont often get much in the way of responses anymore, and 60% of what I do get basically tells me im wrong or that im about to get porked by my EX in court.

I have found the frequency and quality of helpful exchanges has phased out and begun to die off.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

I find the more time i spend here posting the more time i spend thinking of her. The worst is behind me, and i dont often get much in the way of responses anymore, and 60% of what I do get basically tells me im wrong or that im about to get porked by my EX in court.

I have found the frequency and quality of helpful exchanges has phased out and begun to die off.

For the love of God Orange, what do you want? What is it you want from us!?

People have taken the time out their busy days to help you, from experience, to prepare yourself on what to expect from your W, how to protect yourself, and most importantly, how to protect your son!

You want us to tell you everything is going to fine and she'll come back? We can't do that, because we don't know.

We can only tell you what to do to keep yourself in the best position to have that happen. ANd you keep yourself in the best position by coparenting, by, making sure you protect yourself financially and custody wise. And how to live your life within the realms of your current position. That is your best chance of saving your marriage or beginning a new one with her. There is nothing beyond that you can do. But this is the best bet you have.

You want us to tell you she isn't going to try to screw you in the divorce? You want us to tell you she has no chance of winning your petition? So you want us to lie to you to make you happy?

When something legally happens, you tell us to focus on that, we tell you, from experience what you should watch out for, and then you get mad?

Maybe what 60% of what you are doing isn't going to benefit your sitch. Why would you want us to tell you otherwise if it isn't going to help? Did you come here to learn or to be right?

Orange, there is no winning with you. The only way you are going to feel anything is helpful is if they tell you what you want to hear. And that certainly isn't going to make your sitch any better.

I think you should keep posting, take in the advice, admit when you have room for improvement, and get over yourself.

Otherwise, maybe you are right. This board isn't going to benefit you.

Just because you aren't hearing what you want, doesn't mean the advice isn't helpful

If you suspect abuse, you need to report it. Forget your M. If you are truly worried about the welfare of your child, act on it.

OK be careful qualifying her pulling his hair to show him how it feels as "abuse". When kids cross certain lines then I believe corporal punishment is the answer. Parents that tolerate their kids hitting them, biting them, pulling their hair, etc are doing themselves, their child, and society a huge disservice. Sometimes a good old spanking is what is called for. And that our society claims that it is abuse is idiotic.

He pulled her hair, so she pulled his to show him that having your pulled is not fun.

Also, kids acting out when they are with one parent, or their grandparents, is a relatively normal thing. I know my D through the years has come home and acted pretty bad after being with grandparents. I think it is sometimes just rebellion since the rules are different at your house than they are at hers and vice-versa. Or it could be his way of dealing with his parents being split up.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

For the love of God Orange, what do you want? What is it you want from us!?

Nothing Ginger. I just feel like Ive asked a lot of the same questions and gotten a lot of the same answers.
Its just time for a break, relax. Jeeze.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

People have taken the time out their busy days to help you, from experience, to prepare yourself on what to expect from your W, how to protect yourself, and most importantly, how to protect your son!

They do. And i appreciate that. I have also stated my appreciation for this Several times, to several people. Including you Ginger. I have used the advice I have gotten here, much to my benefit. Esp. regarding detachment
What I dont appreciate is being crucified anytime I should (GOD FORBID). Disagree with someone. This board is not supportive of free thinking.
Im supposed to just blindly follow all advice, not establish my own views or opinions, accept people making assumptions about aforementioned opinions and be a robotic yes man?
No thanks.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

You want us to tell you everything is going to fine and she'll come back? We can't do that, because we don't know.

Clearly you breeze my posts Ginger, evidently looking for things to berate me about.
I have said 1000 times and Ill say it again
I DONT EFFING WANT HER BACK.
Just because i have a day where i miss what i had doesnt mean i want to dive back into the deep end of the abuse pool.
I was born at night but not last night. Forgive me for mourning the loss of what i thought would be my entire life.
Sometimes, God forbid. I have FEELINGS! Imagine that?
SHe is a stupid, immature, lying C**T. Plain and Simple.
I. DONT. WANT. HER. BACK.
I hope i made that clear this time.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

We can only tell you what to do to keep yourself in the best position to have that happen. ANd you keep yourself in the best position by coparenting, by, making sure you protect yourself financially and custody wise. And how to live your life within the realms of your current position. That is your best chance of saving your marriage or beginning a new one with her. There is nothing beyond that you can do. But this is the best bet you have.

I dont want a new beginning or my old life. If she got deported I would throw a fekkin party Ginger.
I dont plan on working on co parenting with her because she is never going to willing do anything that doesnt directly benefit her.
Speaking to her is pointless, as far as I am concerned she is the robot i need to go to court with. The woman i though i knew is dead to me. Shes a S**tty mother, a crappy person, and a toxic bottom feeder. I want nothing to do with that.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

You want us to tell you she isn't going to try to screw you in the divorce? You want us to tell you she has no chance of winning your petition? So you want us to lie to you to make you happy?

Not even going to dignify this with a response. See above.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

When something legally happens, you tell us to focus on that, we tell you, from experience what you should watch out for, and then you get mad?

Again, making assumptions on my mood. thanks. Never got mad. Just said my state is obviously doing things differently.
People jump all over telling me how much i didnt get screwed. Well if i got such a boon of a divorce, given my situation, then perhaps we should all be writing our congresspeople to change divorce law because the compacency of how biased the process is makes me SICK.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Maybe what 60% of what you are doing isn't going to benefit your sitch. Why would you want us to tell you otherwise if it isn't going to help? Did you come here to learn or to be right?

To learn. And I have.
Detachment game is getting far far stronger.
thanks to help ive gotten here, AND THANKED AND ACKNOWLEDGED PEOPLE FOR PROVIDING.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Orange, there is no winning with you. The only way you are going to feel anything is helpful is if they tell you what you want to hear. And that certainly isn't going to make your sitch any better.

I could say the same Ginger, you seem to look forward to and deliberately seek out debates with me and opportunities to tell me how wrong I am.
Again, thanks for making assumptions about what I want without actually asking my opinion.
Way to go.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I think you should keep posting, take in the advice, admit when you have room for improvement, and get over yourself.

Funny. I cant recall you ever saying you have room for improvement, and you seem to really get ruffled when someone doesnt agree with your advice.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

Otherwise, maybe you are right. This board isn't going to benefit you.

Just because you aren't hearing what you want, doesn't mean the advice isn't helpful

Interesting, as you seem so viemently frustrated that YOU arent hearing what YOU want from me.
Why is that Ginger?

Originally Posted by Steve85

OK be careful qualifying her pulling his hair to show him how it feels as "abuse". When kids cross certain lines then I believe corporal punishment is the answer. Parents that tolerate their kids hitting them, biting them, pulling their hair, etc are doing themselves, their child, and society a huge disservice. Sometimes a good old spanking is what is called for. And that our society claims that it is abuse is idiotic.

He pulled her hair, so she pulled his to show him that having your pulled is not fun.

Also, kids acting out when they are with one parent, or their grandparents, is a relatively normal thing. I know my D through the years has come home and acted pretty bad after being with grandparents. I think it is sometimes just rebellion since the rules are different at your house than they are at hers and vice-versa. Or it could be his way of dealing with his parents being split up.

If you think I am going to brush this under the rug, than I am sorry Steve. on this we will disagree.
A spanking is one thing. He was upset about this 2 days after the fact., She hurt him.
Shes a monster.
if you think that is acceptable parenting then I cannot support that view.

Ill let you all know what happens in Sept at final hearing. or if anything huge happens legally. Otherwise, enjoy the rest of your summers.

Good luck to those walking the path alongside me.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

If you suspect abuse, you need to report it. Forget your M. If you are truly worried about the welfare of your child, act on it.

On that like white on rice. Documented, submitted to L.

I am going to be very very straight with you. I am not sugar coating anything.

Everything is a rebuttal to you. Your posts come across as a defiant teenager having a temper tantrum when you don't hear what you want.

Asking the same question and expecting different answers is a trait of someone who doesn't like what they hear and only wants to hear what the want. It's like asking what color is the sky? Are you going to keep asking until someone gives something other than the color of blue when the answer is blue?

You have some growing up to do. I truly hope your interactions on here do not reflect the ones you have IRL.

Originally Posted by Ginger1

I am going to be very very straight with you. I am not sugar coating anything.

Everything is a rebuttal to you. Your posts come across as a defiant teenager having a temper tantrum when you don't hear what you want.

Asking the same question and expecting different answers is a trait of someone who doesn't like what they hear and only wants to hear what the want. It's like asking what color is the sky? Are you going to keep asking until someone gives something other than the color of blue when the answer is blue?

You have some growing up to do. I truly hope your interactions on here do not reflect the ones you have IRL.

Thats interesting Ginger, i was actually thinking the exact same in regards to your posts.

Same about you IRL. You seem controlling, aggressive and seem to think your opinion is fact.
I can see how that would also lead to being difficult to deal with IRL.

What ways can you improve how you deal with people?
Does it ever even cross your mind that you may be coming in too strong, making assumptions or are being offensive?

you cannot seem to abide being disagreed with, or told you are wrong.

try asking questions instead of drawing assumptions and jumping to conclusions.

What seems to you to be a more effective method of communication?

1.) (your, preferred method)
"What you are doing is wrong, you should be doing ABC not XYZ. You are only hurting yourself, why dont you listen and learn and do what we all tell you? we have been there, we know better"

2.) (a logical method)
"I think what you are doing isnt helping you, perhaps you should try ABC not XYZ. How has ABC worked out for you and why do you think its the best method? How does it make you feel, and how would the idea of XYZ feel do you think?
I think if you look at different approaches, you might find more success. Here is what I experienced, XXXXXXXXXXXX, do you think that applies to your sitch at all? Hope this helps, try thinking of it this way, or that way, maybe itll feel better"

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Originally Posted by Steve85

OK be careful qualifying her pulling his hair to show him how it feels as "abuse". When kids cross certain lines then I believe corporal punishment is the answer. Parents that tolerate their kids hitting them, biting them, pulling their hair, etc are doing themselves, their child, and society a huge disservice. Sometimes a good old spanking is what is called for. And that our society claims that it is abuse is idiotic.

He pulled her hair, so she pulled his to show him that having your pulled is not fun.

Also, kids acting out when they are with one parent, or their grandparents, is a relatively normal thing. I know my D through the years has come home and acted pretty bad after being with grandparents. I think it is sometimes just rebellion since the rules are different at your house than they are at hers and vice-versa. Or it could be his way of dealing with his parents being split up.

If you think I am going to brush this under the rug, than I am sorry Steve. on this we will disagree.
A spanking is one thing. He was upset about this 2 days after the fact., She hurt him.
Shes a monster.
if you think that is acceptable parenting then I cannot support that view.

Again you can just ignore the advice. Or you can continue to be passive-aggressive. IDC either way.

OK, you are entitled to your opinion. I am obviously done here. I have been here a long time, and you have a long way to go.

Actually, my profession requires me to be sensitive yet firm. I have had helped family make life and death decisions and other major life decisions. To help people face realities they are not ready to face. Luckily my track record has been pretty good so far.

Little do you even realize, I used approach 1 and approach 2 with you. You do actually gloss right over the "logical" method. You don't hear it. But you don't hear method 1 either. So, I agree, maybe not the best either Because you are in a spot where you only want to hear what you want to hear. Sure, I may not talk your language all the time, but when I do, you don't even know it.

We can agree to disagree. But I'm good. You are the one with clear struggles seeking for something everyone can't give you. You want to run from the boards and mistake help for "mean".

You have a whole life ahead of you and a beautiful little boy you are going to be raising with this woman. I can only wish you the best of luck.

2 more fine examples of other members getting butt hurt when they arent agreed with.

Jesus, you people are entitled.

Perhaps we should add "Do as the Board members say but not as they do" to the list of rules.

Ginger, i feel i must point out that you didnt actually respond directly to a single thing i said, and are again putting words in my mouth.

Im not wasting my time trying to explain my position or opinion to entitled know it alls

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Originally Posted by Steve85

OK be careful qualifying her pulling his hair to show him how it feels as "abuse". When kids cross certain lines then I believe corporal punishment is the answer. Parents that tolerate their kids hitting them, biting them, pulling their hair, etc are doing themselves, their child, and society a huge disservice. Sometimes a good old spanking is what is called for. And that our society claims that it is abuse is idiotic.

He pulled her hair, so she pulled his to show him that having your pulled is not fun.

Also, kids acting out when they are with one parent, or their grandparents, is a relatively normal thing. I know my D through the years has come home and acted pretty bad after being with grandparents. I think it is sometimes just rebellion since the rules are different at your house than they are at hers and vice-versa. Or it could be his way of dealing with his parents being split up.

If you think I am going to brush this under the rug, than I am sorry Steve. on this we will disagree.
A spanking is one thing. He was upset about this 2 days after the fact., She hurt him.
Shes a monster.
if you think that is acceptable parenting then I cannot support that view.

Again you can just ignore the advice. Or you can continue to be passive-aggressive. IDC either way.

Another fine example of "Im right, your wrong, if you dont listen to my advice and do what i say than you are obviously an idiot. Goodbye."
How supportive and understanding Steve.
Enjoy the view from high atop your self righteous soap box Bud.

All because i announced i was taking a break from the forum.

To all the people who actually helped through logic and unbaised thinking, and didnt do so through a lens of personal attacks (Vanilla, Sandi, MTB, Joeseph, Makia, and many others) I thank you.

Steve, you have offered several pieces of sound advice, but again i feel you are offended when i dont eagerly gobble up every morsel of advice you give. You and I are profoundly different men, with very different lives and Sitches.
I have always appreciated your input, but you certainly have a tendency to act like you have all the answers, and that the answers you have apply uniformly to all sitches. You dont. It doesnt.

I bid you all a fond adieu and resolve this day to its best tidings.

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Originally Posted by Steve85

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Originally Posted by Steve85

OK be careful qualifying her pulling his hair to show him how it feels as "abuse". When kids cross certain lines then I believe corporal punishment is the answer. Parents that tolerate their kids hitting them, biting them, pulling their hair, etc are doing themselves, their child, and society a huge disservice. Sometimes a good old spanking is what is called for. And that our society claims that it is abuse is idiotic.

He pulled her hair, so she pulled his to show him that having your pulled is not fun.

Also, kids acting out when they are with one parent, or their grandparents, is a relatively normal thing. I know my D through the years has come home and acted pretty bad after being with grandparents. I think it is sometimes just rebellion since the rules are different at your house than they are at hers and vice-versa. Or it could be his way of dealing with his parents being split up.

If you think I am going to brush this under the rug, than I am sorry Steve. on this we will disagree.
A spanking is one thing. He was upset about this 2 days after the fact., She hurt him.
Shes a monster.
if you think that is acceptable parenting then I cannot support that view.

Again you can just ignore the advice. Or you can continue to be passive-aggressive. IDC either way.

Another fine example of "Im right, your wrong, if you dont listen to my advice and do what i say than you are obviously an idiot. Goodbye."
How supportive and understanding Steve.
Enjoy the view from high atop your self righteous soap box Bud.

Quote

if you think that is acceptable parenting then I cannot support that view.

Quote

"Im right, your wrong, if you dont listen to my advice and do what i say than you are obviously an idiot. Goodbye."

Or you could have said:

"Thanks for your perspective, I don't agree with it and feel that I need to document it and let my L know."

Your abrasiveness and being guilty of what you accuse others of is very indicative OK. As Ginger said, if you are even partially like this IRL it explains a lot.

Have you been to IC?

I have stuck with you through your tantrums. I don't care if you agree with me or not. I will continue to stick with you, unless you would prefer me not. I do feel it necessary to point out when you are responding poorly, to me or to others. You are back in a manic cycle (and I would have a new IC reevaluate you for bipolar, I know its been dismissed in the past by another IC that you didn't continue with), and when that happens you don't just disagree....you get disagreeable.

You need to follow your own advice.

Im all set Steve.

Best of luck in life.

Ill update after D is final.

And yes. Ive been going to IC 2x a week. 3rd IC ive seen. No hint at any issues or even a suggestion of new Meds.

Ill die with a smile on my face and a good, solid, still frozen snowball in my hands, in the 9th circle of hell atop a flying pig when I see some of you admit being wrong about something, or that you may have overstepped, assumed or jumped to conclusions.

Manic? I feel better this week than i have since before BD.
Im doing great IRL.
Saving money, hitting fitness goals, S3 is much better behaved than even a few weeks ago, Divorce is going my way, and EX hasnt bothered me in over 2 weeks. Life is good.
Im doing fine and loving every second of it.
But again, thank you for assuming I am manic, Bi-Polar (despite what 3 IC's have told me, clearly you know better)

Originally Posted by OrangeK

And yes. Ive been going to IC 2x a week. 3rd IC ive seen. No hint at any issues or even a suggestion of new Meds.

Ill die with a smile on my face and a good, solid, still frozen snowball in my hands, in the 9th circle of hell atop a flying pig when I see some of you admit being wrong about something, or that you may have overstepped, assumed or jumped to conclusions.

Manic? I feel better this week than i have since before BD.
Im doing great IRL.
Saving money, hitting fitness goals, S3 is much better behaved than even a few weeks ago, Divorce is going my way, and EX hasnt bothered me in over 2 weeks. Life is good.
Im doing fine and loving every second of it.
But again, thank you for assuming I am manic, Bi-Polar (despite what 3 IC's have told me, clearly you know better)

^^^^mania and inconsistency. You were just talking about how your wife is abusing your son, he has horrible tantrums when he comes back and now, life is good because your wife hasn't bothered you in over two weeks and your son is more well-behaved than ever......

I'll just pray for you over here.

Curious what happened when these 3 C's told you things you didn't want to hear.

My mother was bi polar. Always moved on to another psychiatrist when they didn't tell her what she wanted to hear......

I am not going to diagnose you. I am not pa psychiatrist. But this is how your behavior appears. All over the place and contradictory. It's worrisome.

Worry all you'd like Ginger. Light all the candles in the world.

I am equally concerned by how you seemingly refuse to analyze your own behavior patterns.

Im done being told I am mentally unstable by a bunch of keyboard psychologists.

Kindly go piss up a rope.

I don't think I've posted much if at all of your thread. However it is always so amazing to me when people here act poorly to those with years and years of experience who try to help them. Then they claim it's the spouse acting terrible, unreasonable and is responsible for the breakdown of the M. Yet who is the common demonination in the scenario? It's very telling.

You can either claim all of these people with years and years of expierence, following proven principles by experts are wrong or figure as a 30 year old know it all snowflake millenual they might not be the bad guy here. There's no way anyone gets their life back on track this way.

Clearly you read neither my entire thread, or my reasons for having issue with some of the things people have said here.

also, glad to see you are mature enough at your ripe age of 55 to resort to petty name calling. Typically what people do when they dont have an actual valid point.
Also, knowing nothing of my opinions or political affiliations, i find it delightfully charming that you chose to call me a "Millennial Snowflake"
Try shutting off Fox for once and actually pick up one of those dusty things with pages in it. I think they're called Books, if my feeble 30yo snowflake memory serves me correctly.

My life is well on its way to being back on track. Just without my EX, which is precisely how i want it.

Thank you for your generalized impression on a sitch you havent read.

Im done arguing with you all about how you view me.

Honestly, I dont give a S**t what people think about me or how I handle my life.

If you dont like it, dont read my thread, or throw your unwelcome $.02 in my face. I dont care.

As i have said twice already today. I will post in reply to legitimate questions asked, or an update after D is final.

I for one will be ignoring any further Ego fueled attacks because I pissed everyone off by saying i wanted a break from the forum.

Its starting to have a "One of us.......one of us...... We accept him" type of vibe.
People need to remember, despite this being a PRO MARRIAGE ANTI DIVORCE forum, I am happily getting divorced and never looking back, and that seems to irk people.

Anyone can imply i was the problem, you didnt live through the abuse i did, and I dont need anyone to validate that I went through abuse. Doesnt profit me at all if you do or dont. I know what i wnet through, i know what i was like in MR, i know what is right and wrong, and I know I am caring for myself and S3 the best way I SEE FIT.
If my methods or opinions get your ire up, go elsewhere. Simple as that.

If anyone is willing to have a productive conversation that doesnt include blind finger pointing, I am game.
If anyone wants to discuss my sitch, or theirs. I am game.

Steve, no hard feelings but i feel like we simply have very different views and we will never truly see eye to eye.
I will say i do appreciate your ability to have a disagreement and debate in a civil fashion.
I have always respected you as a man, and still do, despite some of the disagreements we have had.

OK. Absolutely. As I've always said. I just pray for your continued healing and growth. Just like I do for my own. Stay strong for that little man.

Orange,

just take a breather man. Calm down. You don't have to fight ever fight, you don't have to "win" ever fight. I've spent a lot of time trying to do those things only to drive myself bonkers.

If you don't want her back, then why do you worry about her so much? Let her go and live your life. Do you think it's realistic that she will never have another man in her life? Or that you'll approve of those men?

If you don't want her back, why spend so much time analyzing her every move? It's confusing.

Your break from the forum post was an attention grabber, and meant more than just the face value. Think about yourself and why you act the way you do. You won't improve or learn about yourself without asking or thinking about these things.

Your tone, in your thread and other people's, is not always the friendliest or most inviting.

You say you're not going to waste time explaining your position to entitled know it alls, but then you go on to do just what you said you wouldn't. Do you realize you're doing this? Seems a bit contradictory.

People are here to help you.

Firstly. Ovr. Thank you for posing questions and having a dialogue. I appreciate it tremendously.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Orange,

just take a breather man. Calm down. You don't have to fight ever fight, you don't have to "win" ever fight. I've spent a lot of time trying to do those things only to drive myself bonkers.

That is precisely what i was doing when i mentioned taking a break from the forum. then the pitchforks and torches came out.
Im not trying to "Win" or be right. Its just staggering to me how much of what i type out and submit gets completely ignored, and assumptions of my thoughts are made based off of incomplete information.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

If you don't want her back, then why do you worry about her so much? Let her go and live your life. Do you think it's realistic that she will never have another man in her life? Or that you'll approve of those men?

I worry about what shes going to do to continue to violate my life, manipulate me through our son, and her declining ability to be an effective mother. I dont care who she has for men in her life (as im sure there will be dozens), nor that I need to approve of them. My approval isnt her concern and I dont care to provide it. As long as she isnt introducing a new guy to S3 every year or two, and they arent abusive to my son i dont care. Similarly as long as she continues her new silence i am a happy camper. I only ever wanted to know what she was up to so i could be ready for any incoming drama/manipulation attempts or legal attacks from her.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

If you don't want her back, why spend so much time analyzing her every move? It's confusing.

See above

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Your break from the forum post was an attention grabber, and meant more than just the face value. Think about yourself and why you act the way you do. You won't improve or learn about yourself without asking or thinking about these things.

I think about them often, i discuss them with IC often. My post about taking a break wasnt an attention Grabber.
I see other posters who abandon their threads and the other members seem to get concerned. I didnt want that to happen in an absence.

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

Your tone, in your thread and other people's, is not always the friendliest or most inviting.

That could be said of a lot of people here. I dont disagree. Being soft and fulffy has never been my personality.
When i am being actively antagonized and insulted, im not the type to sit there and be like "Yep, this is fine"

Originally Posted by ovrrnbw

You say you're not going to waste time explaining your position to entitled know it alls, but then you go on to do just what you said you wouldn't. Do you realize you're doing this? Seems a bit contradictory.

People are here to help you.

I explained myself to those who had the time and patience to actually read 100% of what i am typing, not just skimming for Buzz words and going into Riot mode.
I think most people are indeed here to help. Most.
I think there are a select few who get their rocks off here with elitist feelings of superiority and omniscience.

Im honestly shocked things have gotten so insensitive here.
I have seen recent newbies come, post, feel attacked and never came back.

Is that the attitude that is trying to be cultivated here?
"Follow DB exact to a tee or you will be ostracized in your already compromised emotional state and set as an example to those newbies who may think to stray from the rigid hallowed path of DB" ???

You should really go back and read the way you react, especially towards those that are attempting to help you. You act like a child who isn't getting their way and has to deflect it back on everyone else. You seem to think the people posting to you are just trying to attack you, they're trying to help you ffs. How many people have to say "You're wrong, this is an issue you can change" before you consider the possibility?

When people get here it's usually a wake up call to change the things in their life that arent working, yet you keep resisting what people are trying to help you see. I hope the IC flushes it out, truly

Keep being passive aggressive, keep deflecting all your issues toward others, at the end of the day we only care because we've worked through issues ourselves, know what this grieving period can be in terms of personal growth and genuinely want to help. But by all means, drag the same baggage into your next relationship.

Morse than anything this saddens me.
All this stuff absolutely [censored] but we have the opportunity to make something positive out of it, if we choose too.

Anyway, good luck with your break from the forums and D, hope things work out for you

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Im honestly shocked things have gotten so insensitive here.
I have seen recent newbies come, post, feel attacked and never came back.

Please point out which newbie specifically was attacked on this forum. This forum for many of us has been a life saver, an eye opener. You are 30 years old and have a lot to learn... you have so much life ahead of you embrace the changes that need to be made, the sooner the better. When you point a finger at someone there are 4 pointing back at you.

If you are taking a break from the forum why do you need to annouce it? Just take you break, come back when you are ready.

Cadet. Please delete or Archive my thread.

Thank you Sandi and Vanilla. you both helped more than words can describe.
Makia, AS, & Joseph, you both were my lead-line into the future without EX. thank you for your support and for keeping it real.

MTB, you are amazing, Keep it up buddy.

I can be reached Via facebook, NicoleR has that info if needed.

Peace be with you all.

Hope you're doing well, Orange...

You've given me a lot of support on here. And I'm very grateful. I hate to see you leave, but if that's what you think you need to do then do it. I think you're just in a rough spot right now. But it will pass. We all have them and they all pass. I've seen you give others on her some really good advice, and I'm sad to see you leave. Take care, buddy. I wish you and you S the best of luck...

I personally, am doing really well. Much improved compared to even a few weeks ago. Thanks MTB.

The only rough patch i feel right now is the abrasive and accusatory attitude i have received here of late.

Ill either start a new thread or continue from this one if its still here when i Check in.

As much as i have gotten tons of help and advice here, i feel as though it has also prolonged my healing process.

Cadet. Dont delete the thread. Id hate to lose the journaling records. Im just gonna be low key for a bit. I think emotions are roiling up as Final D approaches.

OrangeK, I hope you don't leave! Maybe some people who normally respond are on vacation since it's summer and maybe others have been busy. It's understandable though if some of responses make you more stressed since you're already stressed...perhaps cutting back or a break would be good but you'll probably need this forum as the actual divorce draws closer. People from all walks of life come here so there's a lot of diversity in opinions but as I always say, sometimes we're looking for advice and other times we're just looking for someone to listen and understand. I do think sometimes you just need people to listen and sympathize and instead you get a lot of advice on what to do, which can be really helpful, but there can be a disconnect when advice wasn't really what you wanted. Anyway I'd be happy to stay in contact on facebook. I wish there'd be a way to meet more members there.

Need advice - waiting on call from lawyer.

Saw EX and OM right near S3's school today. She had him last 2 nights, and where they were coming from was OM's house, EX lives in opposite direction.

Yet another time S3 has been CO-Slept at OM's house, in OM's bed (there isnt room for S3 to have his own room there)

I am trying to decide between saying something to her about this continued behavior that is detrimental to S3, or just not saying anything and filing a motion in court to request check of residency.

S3 is always very upset after days he has slept at OM's house.
Clearly her Convenience and contentment of being at OM's house and not her mothers is more important than the healthy development of her child.

Advice on best course of action here?

I like the course of action you have already taken, to contact your lawyer. In my experience in these things the last thing you want to come across as to the court is petty. Your lawyer will guide you on whether you should mention it to her or file the motion, or neither or both.

Steve, my only concern is him taking days to get back to me

Originally Posted by OrangeK

Steve, my only concern is him taking days to get back to me

When is the hearing?

Sept 11th

I am trying to take the "Not my circus not my monkeys" approach.

I know she enjoys my negative reactions, and they all definitely saw me drive by, So i imagine she may be anticipating a message from me as that would be par for the course based off of my past reactions to things, so perhaps not getting a message from me work to my advantage.
I am not going to give her the satisfaction of knowing seeing that this morning pissed me right off.
Trying to chill myself out now.

OM has been around for over a year, S3 knows him well. that isnt my issue.
I even understand that sleeping at OM's house is a common possibility, what i have an issue with is the fact that there isnt a bedroom for S3 there, let alone a separate bed for him.

As of right now i plan to just document the hell out of this, add it to the other occasions this has happened, and bring it up in court on Sept 11th.
All of her court interactions so far have been reactionary. So if I dont file a motion regarding this, she wont have anything to react to, and I can bring it up in court when she has no time to prep a reply, and she can stumble over he lies in front of the judge.
Between this and the hair pulling thing, the neglect of his needs and borderline abuse is getting out of hand.

I know that she will be messaging me this weekend after she picks him up, as I will be cutting his hair quite short so she cannot pull it anymore.
She will flip when she sees a haircut, but i dont plan on giving a response there when she does either.
She can gnash her teeth and act out all she would like. Only makes her look worse come court.

OK - I don't believe that saying anything to your W about it is going to make a difference so I agree with S. If I remember you tried addressing your concerns to your W before about it and she responded by sending you pictures of S3 in bed at her moms or something like that. Obviously it did not change her behavior.

With that said if you have evidence of abuse, child endangerment, neglect, etc. speak with your L ASAP or if it is an emergency call the police.

Finally you really need to think about all the above or if this is just something that really really [censored] but as your S's mother it is within her right to do. The difference between your values and hers.

Joseph, the CO-Sleeping is immoral, wrong and plain bad parenting. Is it abuse or neglect? I dont believe the court will see it that way. Its very harmful to S3's development, but there isnt much I can do about it other than let her know I think its deplorable and makes her a half a$$ed mother, which i have said in the past. No point in repeating myself there.

THe hair pulling is another matter.
I have documented that and sent it to L days ago.
When S3 mimicked what had been done to him, he grabbed a FISTFULL of hair, right at the base of his scalp and pulled, HARD and maintained it until i told him to stop.
He was imitating what had been done and it wasnt an idle tug of the hair from the far end, to show him hair pulling wasnt ok. He imitated a prolonged, hard pull of his entire scalp.
This isnt discipline, its her exerting physical dominance over the sweetest innocent little boy.
Makes me sick.

I agree with your first paragraph but I don't believe there is anything you can do about it and saying something to your W....IMO will only make things worse.

Hair pulling......personally would not bother me. I wish my dad would have done that versus thumping me on the back of the head

I would only suggest that you look inward and determine if you would have had an issue with her disciplining him by pulling his hair if you were still living under one roof or if you have an issue with it because of the situation your in, combined with everything else that has happened.

If she did this when you were together would it have made you sick?

Originally Posted by Joseph9

Hair pulling......personally would not bother me. I wish my dad would have done that versus thumping me on the back of the head

It was bothering him 2 days after the fact, its the MENTAL IMPACT of this behavior that concerns me.
I got the wooden spoon plenty as a kid and am grateful for it, this hair pulling is more in line with sadism IMHO.
Shes using it for dominance and compliance, not discipline.

Originally Posted by Joseph9

I would only suggest that you look inward and determine if you would have had an issue with her disciplining him by pulling his hair if you were still living under one roof or if you have an issue with it because of the situation your in, combined with everything else that has happened.

If she did this when you were together would it have made you sick?

I 10000000% would have an issue with it if we were together.
Not to mention the Hypocrisy.
She FLIPPED OUT the one time i spanked him, once, with a diaper on, for putting a 6 inch crack in his bedroom door by throwing a toy at it.
She claims she has never hit, spanked, or anything else with him, when she is clearly pulling his hair. He has done an odd thing before to me too, where he clampped his hand over my mouth when I raised my voice and he yelled "NO SCREAMING".

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