Re: MY TRAGIC WAW STORY PART XI - DivorceBusting.com

Previous thread here...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2796823&page=10

i think you had the "R" talk just recently, and she has made it clear that she is not ready to be in a relationship... don't push it at this point... just because you two were married to each other does not mean this ought to move faster... perhaps it will move more slowly... see where it goes... see other women if you wish... but do not put her in a place where she needs to decide now or needs to decide soon... you will lose... if i were you, i would just enjoy this "newness" that only comes along when you are in a new relationship... and once you establish commitment, the newness eventually fades... it's called the warm fuzzies... enjoy it...

Oh don't worry, I'm not pushing anything at all Artista. Just taking it as it comes. Right now it's just radio silence anyway as I haven't heard from her since she got home safely that night. Kind of unusual but my intuition is telling me she realized she few things after all that happened on bonfire day and she is pondering or something. I'm sure she'll be in touch in the next couple days though so I'll keep you all posted.

Admittedly my "call to action" is based on old man impatience. As you approach 50 you get less worried about feelings and just want to cut to the truth. You realize that life is too short to sit around waiting for someone to come around.

That, and my ex-gf strung me along for years in the vein of "getting back together". That was in my 20s. Today, if I weren't married, and she came calling, I'd say right off. "What do you want? Because I have plenty of friends, so if it is just friendship I am out!"

But I like your plan IH. Give her plenty of time and then move on.

Yeah as I said, I'm in no rush whatsoever. I'll continue to spend time with her until either of us becomes involved with someone else. Maybe we'll become involved with each other.. .maybe not. But there's no reason to rush. Eventually nature will take its course and our current relationship will either cease or become serious again. For now we both happened to be single and she clearly likes spending time with me...well at least until last Saturday LOL! Haven't heard from her since though so who knows what's going on. Que sera sera.

wouldn't it be funny if she were on some kind of site geared toward her situation, receiving advise from others about you? haha!

Hahaha that would be hysterical Artista LOL! I have often gnohb if somehow she ever found me here how she would react. Since our divorce I've pretty much posted every single event that's happened regarding her so I wonder what it would be like for her to start reading my thread here from wayyyy back on part 1!! Actually I bet if even I went back and started reading from part 1 I'd be amazed at how far I've come. The pain and torture those initial months after she left were seemingly hopeless and unbearable. I never would imagine all this would be going on with WAW 4 years later. Time just flies by so fast...even when it seems like it won't.

Hi Guys,
Just an update. Haven't heard from WAW since the night she made it home safe from the bonfire but texted me a little bit ago and asked if I was off on Friday. She mentioned she was going to be in my town late Friday night and wants to get together. I'll let you all know what we end up planning for the night.

Got nothing to say to you IH. Why? Because you're already doing everything so well

Nice work. Keep us posted on your progress.I think you've got a great shot at recon, I'd tell you to keep your hopes tempered though, but you already know that.

Thanks AS but I'm really not doing anything LOL! I haven't texted her at all since that night...I'm just keepin' on keepin' on here LOL! Thanks though and I most definitely will keep you guys posted. She's been sending me funny movie quotes from one of our fave movies this afternoon.

She was probably hoping you would reach out to her and pursue her. Looks like her patience ran out and she's resumed her own pursuit... keep playing it cool, IH.

Yeah it would seem so. The time for me to pursue isn't here yet. Soon...but not just yet. She's not going away anytime soon...that much is apparent. She just keeps coming at me over and over again. Works for me!

It will be interesting to see what kind of kiss closes out this meeting Friday...;) We shall see...maybe I'll push the envelope if it seems prudent. What's the worst that can happen right? She gets upset and never talks to me again! Even then I don't think she can stay away for long. Oh and I also forgot to mention that she told me at the bonfire that she was going to New York to visit her cousin this past weekend. So that's likely why I didn't hear from her.

Hey guys,
WAW wants to come to my place and watch the movie she was quoting that we used to watch a lot so she'll be meeting me at my place late tomorrow night. Not bad at all that she wants to spend another weekend night with me. We'll see how it goes. The biggest curiosity I have is what will the goodbye be. Soon enough we'll see.

My guess. you say goodbye after breakfast.

I love the optimism you have but let me first manage to get a REAL kiss from her before I'm scrambling eggs for her LOL!

Okay guys, it's showtime.
WAW is on her way over now. 10PM on a Friday night. I'm on and ready...so let's do this!!! Update tomorrow.

That's great news! I hope you both enjoy your time and live in the moment!

It's tomorrow....... he says with baited breath.

Good morning guys,

So it's probably not what you guys were hoping to hear but it was a pretty uneventful night with WAW. We had another great time and all but nothing in the way of R. There were the usual little things of course but nothing I would call true progress happened.
At one point we got on the subject of kids today and she started taking about her ex boyfriend's daughter. Apparently she got along good with her snd would always stick up for her when her father would get upset with her. WAW said recently her ex texted her to tell her that he caught this girl with pot in a plastic bag. WAW was joking telling me that she wished that didn't happen because it made her look bad. She went on to describe why left him and their relationship. At this point she must have sensed that I wasn't particularly enjoying the conversation and she laughingly said to me "You told me all your girly stories but I never told you mine." I laughed and blew off the comment and let her continue.

Now when she moved to Florida she moved in with her best friend who has lived down there for about 30 years. Well apparently this friend eventually got into a relationship and the two started talking about moving in together. Of course once this happened WAW knew she'd have to find a place of her own down there. She thought about moving in with this boyfriend but quickly realized that the relationship hadn't progressed to the point where she wanted to do that. It was then that she decided to move back home. I guess WAW listened to all my stories about my relationships but I never heard hers so she was compelled to tell me about it for whatever reason. So at one point I said to her something like "Well do you want to be back with those people? If not why do you care that she made you look bad." WAW said no she didn't want to be back there...that she was just telling me her story since she never had. This part is true...I never did hear about what went on with her down there. She also told me things about her jobs she had down there, how she was out of work for awhile, etc. Basically she felt the need to tell me about her Florida experience since I never really heard much about any of that before. Of course she had to bring up once again on the course of conversation how she was unsatisfied sexually with her exes size and once again I was the comparison. That part always makes me laugh to myself...whenever she brings that up. I just sit there and confidently grin whenever she references that and she laughs at me.

Now comes the interesting part. Previously she had said she was not dating...that she was taking a break. Well during the course of conversation last night she mentioned how she went on a date the night before and that it was awful. She once again said she didn't know why she did it because she's just not ready to be in a relationship or have sex with anyone. She mentioned how she knew right away she wasn't attracted to the guy but she had to spend at least an hour with him out of respect. She said she should have known better because she's not ready for any of that. She said "I figured if I turned out to like this guy, I'd have to go on a second date and I just don't want to commit to anyone right now." Then she went on to say she'd have to give up this that and the other thing if she did. It's unclear whether I am one of those "things" she's not ready to give you yet but I suspect I likely am. She went on..."I went from living with my parents, to living with you for 20 years, and then to living with my friend in Florida. I've never had the chance to live alone on my own steam." She went on to say that guys disappoint her and that they are too this or too that. All the while I sit there with a grin on my face thinking to myself thst "I'm not those things." LOL!

What's interesting to me is that she shared this with me. Not that I care if she dates because I date too...I just don't share that personal business with her. She seems to like to let me know that she has suitors though. Almost like she is competing with my "girlies" as she likes to call them. She doesn't come out and say that of course but I sense it's her way of saying, "Yeah you have your girlies but I have guys who want to date me too." I even wonder if this date she mentioned really even happened or if she was telling me a tall tale for some unknown reason. For some reason I doubted her story but in either case the end result was the same...she was disappointed and again realized she is not ready to commit to anyone right now. Whether that's really a veiled message to me or not is unclear.

She once again was admiring a lot of "our" stuff I still have in my apartment and the associated memories with them. She loved spending time with the cat too. Once we out the movie on she got all comfortable on the couch like we used to when we were married. At one point she had some pain in her shoulder so I have her a nice massage. She laughed and took her bra off said to me..."I'm taking my bra off but I'm not being sexual." I replied with "Oh great, maybe I'll get a peek. Oh wait, nevermind I've seen them in the raw hundreds of times already." She cracked up and said that was true.
After I messaged her she sprawled her legs over mine and we watched the movie.

Then it got to be like 4:30AM and she had to go home. So I walked her to her car, again holding hands like last time (we did this several times throughout the night when we walked in the dark to go have a cigarette, she would hold much hand in the dark.) Then came the moment of truth...what kind of goodbye was I going to get? Well I'm sure it's not what you guys want to hear but we apparently regressed from the lip kiss last time...we went back to a hug. I was going to try something but in the moment something inside you tells you if it's a good idea or not and my gut was telling me "not yet, not tonight." So I didn't push for a regular kiss. It just didn't feel like the right thing to do. So i told her to text me when she got home safe and she left. Then about 10 minutes later she called me and asked me "Are you mad at me?" I said mad at you? Why would I be? She said because I didn't stay there? I said no of course not. She said she had to take her medication and it makes her very drowsy. I assured her I wasn't mad at all. She then asked me to stay on the phone with her until she got home. So I did. She got home and said her fish I got her is mad at her for leaving him alone all day. I laughed and we wished each other a good night. She said "Thank you so much. I had a really, really good time tonight." I said I did too and we said good night.

So there was no progress really but it is what it is. She still wants to hang out quite frequently and as always I am just going to go with this thing wherever it leads. I still think she has something going on secretly inside her regarding me...it's just an inexplicable strong feeling I have knowing her as I do. However until she herself cones to terms with whatever that is...and more importantly feels ready for a committed relationship...it's on with the show for me. So I don't know what's ultimately going to happen here but I guess I don't need to know. When it's time for me to know more I will. For now it's back to my life until next time she comes calling.

Sorry it's not the update I'm sure a lot of you were hoping for but it is what it is folks. Sadly a bit of regression I guess. But I'll keep you posted on whatever happens next.

I don't know, it actually sounds like overall progress to me...

That's interesting hongaku. Do I not see something here that you do?

I think having had a goodbye kiss or not is in and of itself not so important. All that you have described strikes me as her general level of comfort and intimacy with you is actually increasing, not regressing. She seems to be most grappling with her fear, and she seems to be gradually overcoming it. She has been very consistent in a number of ways based on your descriptions and the phone call on her way home was more telling than a goodbye kiss. I suspect the possibility that she was tempted to stay. She wanted to keep interacting, otherwise she wouldn't have called and asked you the question she did. Just my take on it based on the situation as you have described it thus far... you're the one living it though. I still think you're absolutely on the right track and you are playing it exactly right by moving at her pace. I think it's very possible that she is well on the way to falling back "in love" with you. Keep it up and stay positive!

Ithurts- hard to believe after divorce and everything youve been through now youre cuddling on the couch holding hands and kissing sometimes. My WAW left 14 months ago and Id love to get to the spot youre in. Be strong and attractive, do your thing, she is just one aspect of your life not the end all be all.

I suppose that's true hongaku, thanks. She did share some health issues she has with me and actually did specifically mention "you're the only one I've talked to about this." I suppose you could be onto something there. For now I'm holding my course and seeing where this all leads. I didn't actually think much about the phone call on her ride home... certainly didn't put any significance on it but maybe I should. Yes there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that she is totally comfortable with me. She also mentioned how guys don't make her laugh. When she mentioned that I thought to myseld how much, how hard, and how often she laughs at me. So that probably helps my cause.
But I don't know...maybe last night did see some progress. It didn't seem it to me at the time.

Hi Did, yes I myself never imagined this happening 4 years later. On of my friends actually said to me a couple weeks back..."If I told you WAW and you would be hanging out 6 months ago you'd have said I was crazy!" He was right. So maybe I'm looking for too much and if I don't get it I see it as no progress. I don't know. That's why it's nice to get peoples' takes on this here. Sometimes an outsider sees things more clearly that I miss...such as hongaku's thoughts.

I disagree . I think it played out exactly as I thought it would.

What do you disagree with LH?

Ok IH hears the deal...
You did great and her trust in you is high right now.
But...next time you have to Kiss her dude seriously.
Good that you trusted your gut this time...there could have been something going on with her you were picking up on.
But next time you have to act.

Yeah I just sensed that trying anything last night would end badly. I don't think she's there yet. When someone keeps mentioning that they're not ready for a relationship I just don't think it's a good idea to follow that up by trying something. I wasn't feeling it last night. As long as she keeps saying she doesn't want commitment it doesn't exactly open the door for me to try something I guess. That's how I feel anyway and why I don't think it would not end well if I did that.

I think you need to pull way back. You think you are playing it cool, but she knows you want her... She asked if you were mad that she didn't stay... That's ballsy of her to assume that... She's not waiting for you to make any moves toward her... And she is dating... Even though she down played it, she is open to dating other men...

Thanks Artista but what exactly can do to pull back? I don't text her, I don't call her, I don't pursue her so all I've really got as an option is to tell her no next time she wants to meet. Other than that there's absolutely nothing I am doing to pull back from. I literally do absolutely nothing except answer her invites. So are you saying I should just tell her I can't the next few times she asks?

Actually guys, I've been thinking...I think I am actually going to dramatically reduce the time WAW and I are spending together. It's really getting old with me. So I think I'm taking a break from her. I'm going to politely decline hanging out with her going forward and just give up. She's had a few months now to get her crap together and my patience x
Is fading. As I've always said, I want her...but I don't need her. There's other women I'd rather focus my time on now. So I probably won't be around these parts much going forward. I'm just at the end of my rope with her and if she is still too dense to see my awesomeness then I'm going to spend my time with women who do.
This is just becoming redundant with her. If she thinks there's a better guy than me out there then so be it. One day she'll realize she had a rare second chance...and one thing is for sure... she'll regret it one day.

But I'm just done with this nonsense. I'm spinning my wheels and wasting my time. Many have said to treat this as I would any other relationship with a woman...and there's no woman on this planet that I would be this patient with...and I'm not going to be with WAW either. She's had plenty of time to get her head out of her butt. So that's that folks. If anything major happens with her I'll let you guys know. But for now, these little pointless get-togethers of hers are coming to a screeching halt for awhile. She's not going to find a guy as great as me and once again, as before 4 years ago, I'm letting her go try and fail again. Then she'll be back again at some point I'm sure because I am convinced she can't do without me, even if she herself can't see that yet. In the meantime...her little pow-wows with me are getting cut back dramatically.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Thanks Artista but what exactly can do to pull back? I don't text her, I don't call her, I don't pursue her so all I've really got as an option is to tell her no next time she wants to meet. Other than that there's absolutely nothing I am doing to pull back from. I literally do absolutely nothing except answer her invites. So are you saying I should just tell her I can't the next few times she asks?

i think you need to TRULY be too busy the next time she sends an invite... don't fake that you are busy... be busy... have real plans...

Yup. I intend to. She had her chance... several of them now in fact. For now I am done with her. Enough is enough. I'll update you guys as I hear from her but there's not going to be any more meetings for some time.

Bravo! You are a hero and inspiration to all of us!

Originally Posted by Ste7e

Bravo! You are a hero and inspiration to all of us!

Haha thanks Steve my friend but how so? I've failed at R LOL! How can that possibly be a positive inspiration to anyone here?

IH, I am glad you decided what you did. This last update gave me a feeling in the pit of my stomach, that you had indeed been "friend-zoned". She reminds me a lot of my ex-gf Kayla, that I had an on again, off again thing with for years, and eventually got "friend-zoned". The worst part was that she was dangle "more than friends" in front of my face like a carrot, but I could never get to it. When she sense that I had grew frustrated she'd call me with a "I want to see what is possible for us" line. Then the next time we hung out it was all like your X with you the other night. Telling me about her relationship woes, etc.

I'd get fed up and go dark on her. Sooner or later she'd come back. Years later she would try to rewrite history that I never gave her any signals, and that I missed all of her hints. LOL This is why I am a "get it out in the open and quit wasting time" guy now. I think I would have used the "are you made at me for not staying?" question to ask her what she wanted out of this thing, and where it was headed. Then you would know for sure.

I see a few possibilities for what is going on:

1) She is scared due to your past, and therefore is wanting friendship with you, but nothing more. Maybe that is what all the "not ready for a relationship and sex" thing is about. Part of her wants more but she is afraid you will end up back to where you were 4 years ago again. Kind of a "been there, done that" thing.

2) She keeps mentioning your manhood because she is interested in just purely sex, but she knows you likely want more. That you won't be satisfied with just a sexual relationship while you both are on the prowl for someone else to have something more meaningful with. Like she is hinting hoping you'll propose "lets just have NSA sex just to satisify our needs", because for her to suggest it is just too icky.

3) She is hoping you'll be the aggressor. She is afraid that due to the past you are the one not open to more, so she is holding back, but dropping little hints here or there. The "not ready" talk is a reverse-psychology way of trying to get you to say "look I am not interested in being girlfriends, either this moves into a full blown relationship or it ends". Women can be very subtle. I know you said she would be unequivocal in what she wants because "you know her". But a person can change quite a bit in 4 years. Plus you are remembering her before you already dated, married and divorced one time around.

So I am with you IH, I see two ways forward. My straightforward, "what the heck are we doing here?" approach. Or your just going even more dark on her, and being too busy for her.

The beauty of my approach is there is no doubt once you broach it. The problem with the second is you will always wonder if she would have been open for more but just scared. I lived the second with Kayla (name changed to protect the guilty) for years. It was not fun.

I am proud of you because we all come in here codependent weak people with loose to no boundaries.
The R is not the point of the game. Loving yourself and being strong and confident with clear boundaries is.
Your decision shows self respect power and courage!
Plus when faced with the friendzone which is oh so tempting you stuck to your boundary and said Nope not what I want. You chose you. This is empowering and inspirational to watch.

Hi It Hurts, it sounds like the meeting on Saturday was pleasant but inconclusive. I can see how you prefer to scale back those meetings. Perhaps your ex-wife was waiting for you to do something that you didn't do, or perhaps you were waiting for her to do something that she didn't do, but given your history together maybe neither are willing to be the one to step forward. It seems you can proceed as planned and reduce the meetings but eventually I'm guessing your ex-wife will question why you don't want to hang out anymore. What will you tell her? I'm just curious because I really don't know what I'd do if I were in your shoes.

Hi Steve85,
Well my friend my analysis of what's going on with WAW is probably a combination of your bullet points. My take on it based on my interactions with her is this. I think she has not at all ruled out the possibility of R with me, BUT she is not sure because there were parts of herself that she lost when she was with me. She's worked so hard to prove to herself that she can get by on her own steam I think a part of her feels like she'd give some of that progress up if she was to R with me. I think her plan now is pretty much the way I described our sitch to her that Monday when she showed up at my work. That if we end up getting back together, great, if we end up in the sack in a month great...if not that's fine too. I had told her my life is going to lead me to wherever I'm supposed to be and I'm just going with it. So I think that's where she's at...that we will see what happens. So I do not believe she herself even knows what will end up happening with us...so she's playing the friend card for now as a way to get me back in her life.

Now I probably should have mentioned this in my previous post but for whatever reason...I don't think she really was on a date tha night before we met up. It sounded like a fabricated story to me for some reason...generic details, etc. I just remember thinking to myself as she was telling me how bad it was that this story isn't true and she's trying to get my good or something. So I am not really confident that date she described really even happened. I can't explain it but I'm sure all of you have been in a similar situation...where someone is telling you a story and for whatever reason your gut tells you it's not true as you listen. That's how that felt to me. Why she would make up a story like that is unknown but I feel like it was a fabrication. However in either case this had no bearing on my decision but I thought I'd share that with you.

So I think in WAW's head he wants to take it slow with a friendship and see what is going to happen. The problem here become me as I have run out of patience. I personally have not seen enough progression to stay the current course so I'm not wasting any more time. She either has to pick up the pace here or definitively decide to keep dating stooges who will never be as good as me. But this last visit, for whatever reason, is the final straw with me. I think she needs to be reminded of life without me in it again...she's gotten too comfortable with me kicking around again. She's admitted during her years in Florida that she stalked me, she's admitted she asked people about me, she's admitted I appeared in her dreams quite often, she's admitted she missed our sex, she's admitted she's kept in contact with a few of my family members. All of these things tell me that her time in Florida wasn't as me-free as she probably intended it to be when she left. That tells me a lot. That tells me she hadn't come to terms with her feelings for me, that she had unresolved feelings. Now I didn't stalk her at all... didn't keep tabs, etc. One because DBing forbids that but two because I just didn't see a reason for it. She was gone and that was that.
So I truly don't believe she can survive without me in her life...I don't. She's made that clear since she came back around...which coincidentally was right after my serious relationship with Mary ended. All of this adds up to NOT someone wanting an admitted temporary friendship...what it does add up to is a woman who clearly needs her ex in her life. So for now I step away a bit. WAW needs to be reminded of what life was like without me...what it was like to dream about me, what it was like to have to stalk me, etc. I believe she's still in love with me deep down inside her. However I have no interest whatsoever being an archaeologist and digging for those feelings anymore. She needs to do that on her own. She knows full well she will never have with some other dude what she had with me. She knows I'm a rare breed and she knows my value as it compares to her parade of stooges she was dating.
So that's pretty much my take on it Steve my friend.

Hi Ste7e,
Oh well that makes sense I guess. Yeah I don't need her. That's where that comes from. Not to boast but women love me. So dropping WAW like a prom dress is not an issue. Mainly because I am so, so confident that she'll come sniffing around again soon. I am 100 percent convinced she will somehow keep squirming back somehow. I even knew over the 4 years that she'd be the one to eventually give in and contact me. So I think that's what you sense in me, the confidence you sense. It's because I can up and decide to go dark and know for certain she will be back over and over again. In fact I give it a month tops of me not hanging with her before she says something. But she will...which is a nice segway into Nicole's comments...

Yes Nicole, I will simply tell her I'm booked or I have plans. I'm just going to go back to doing all the things I used to do on weekends. Date more women, hang with my pals, go see bands, and work sometimes. I don't owe her specific explanations as to what I'm doing. I'm busy is the best she's going to get. Then I'm sure stalking me with her FB spies will commence again. It seems to me if she spends time stalking me during my absence...which she undoubtedly will...that speaks volumes. So that's all...I'm just going to make other plans and if she asks to hang out I am declining.

for the most part, Waywards and Walk-aways think that at some point they will be friends with their exes... that's what they want... they don't really want things to end badly... part of the DBing method is to say that there will be no friendship... and so things get acrimonious... however, once time passes, and both parties have moved on, there seems to be a chance that a friendship can develop... and i think that is what you have here... you ex-W wants to smooth things over with you... that whole manhood talk is her keeping you "content." it's like a place-holder... i do not think she is interested in a purely sexual relationship... she wants you as a friend, and she certainly does not want to hurt you again... it's all a balancing act on her part... i know this part well... i have done it... move on, and she may come to realize that she does want more with you... at that point, you may be over it... but it won't get there until you really do move on...

mis dos centavos--

--artista

I,

I have to be honest that I think you might be plan b right now. First I thought you blew it because you weren't direct and to the point on what you wanted. Now I think she only sees you as a back up plan.

My point always was that you were making to big of deal about making a move and scaring her away. I think any reasonable woman would expect you to make a move by now at some point.

The thing is now you are never going to know wether you blew it or not.

I think you need to move on an start dating again and definitely stop hanging out as friends.

Well this is where this is all going to get very interesting. I know she's going to ask what's up after a couple times of me being too bust to meet her. I'll just tell her what's up at that point...I'm just going to point blank tell her that once I realized we weren't ever moving beyond friendship, I wanted to date and continue fostering my life that doesn't include her. That's it. I'll just tell her once and for all that she's going to stand there, look me dead in the eyes and tell me she sees no chance of R with us. If she say she doesn't then that's that. Bye bye WAW. If she does a possibility of it I then ask for details.

But this is just stupid now...if we're not going to get back together then there's absolutely no point in being friends if that friendship ends once one of us involved with someone else. It's like trying to escape the inevitable. Plus I know, I know, I know she'll find a reason to contact me. As long as I am so close by now...she'll come back. Let's hope for her sake it's not too late for her, as Artista said, and I'm with some other woman who doesn't come with all this BS. She was supposed to straighten out her life in Florida the past 4 years. Doesn't seem to me she straightened anything out. But that's her problem. It stopped being mine when she walked 4 years ago to supposedly accomplish that goal. And the more I think about it...what is she happens to get involved with someone before me. I'll be DAMNED if I'm going to let her end our little pow-wow friendship. Yup...time for me to stay, far away...go dark/cold, and vanish for the most part.
Back to stalking and spying and pumping people for info about me for WAW. Her appetite for my life is relentless...even I had no idea she was privy to my daily life for 4 years...why did she care? I know why, and deep down she knows why. Until she acknowledges it...I'm doing like the Christopher Cross song and riding like the wind to be free again. She wants me and the privilege of my presence then she's got some heavy duty pursuing to do.

I will let you guys know when she contacts me again and my reply. More soon I'm sure...

I feel like I am on the same path as you except we have a kid... you have no children? So missing my daughter half the time her whole childhood is a big difference. Im so fed up of the games and the oh I want to hang out and have a drink... lets go to dinner its been a long time. Then I say ok, lets do it this night and then she goes OMG it feels like so much pressure.

For me Im going to decline hanging out. Im not doing D3 birthday plans together. Im not inviting W to anything unless she chooses to work on the marriage.

I read most of your sitch... Such a long time! I wish you the best in your future. Im sure you will find true happiness and another woman who you can grow together with. Unbelievable how much we learn from this isnt it... It can be a shame and a curse or a blessing.... well see how it plays out wont we. Such is life.

All the best!

IH, just be careful. Kayla used to dangle the possibility of getting back together so that she didn't lose my friendship. Your WAW may say there is hope just to string you along. Trust your gut on all of this, you seem t have a pretty good intuition about things.

I,

I think I would rather see you wait for her to contact you set a date and make a move on her. Then if she rejects you can tell her you are not interested in a friendship.

Agree. Then at least you know and no need to wonder what if few years from now.

i am telling you, she is not waiting for you to make a move... she would not be so coy if she were interested... she is letting you know that she is not wanting that kind of relationship with you... you can go ahead and appease the masses here that want you to make a move, but she will reject you... she might do it subtly like Steve 85's Kayla did--by simply dangling the carrot of a possibility, then she will go cold... and then after a while, she will come back to pick up the pow-wow relationship with you, but it will not be what you are looking for... the possibility of that happening will be when you truly move on...

if she really wanted things to go further, she would have stayed the night... she would have been available to you when you stayed the night at her place... she would have taken you up on Las Vegas... she would have picked up from where you two left off after the bonfire... so yes, you can make a move on her so you can "KNOW," but you will be so disappointed in yourself, that you let her reject you a second time...

mis dos centavos--

--artista

I appreciate everyones' input but I'm with Artista here. Making a move is not happening. I do know WAW well enough to know if she wanted me, I'd know it. Plus to be honest here, I'm kind of bored with WAW. I can't believe I'm saying that as I hoped for us to meet again...but without any spark from here...I'm just bored with her LOL! So for now, I'm staying away. I'm not going to keep hanging out and that's it like this when at any moment she could be the one to cut it off. Nope, no way, not risking that. That way if and when we hang out again... she'll clearly be pursuing me and not dating at all. I still think this date story she told me is a load of BS...but even so the fact that her desire (by lying/or not) is to relay she's dating...is unacceptable to me. That tells me I am expendable since dating someone could lead to her ending our meetings as we both agreed.
Nope, fuhgeddaboutit LOL! Not doing it. In getting out while the gettin's good.
There will be no arranged meet up. If she appears at my work, which I feel will be her second step to see me, I'll just be myself. She's not getting to spend anymore extended time with me until she demostrates worthiness.

You might be right about the date being a lie. After all she keeps insisting she doesn't want to be with anybody right now. But I am not sure the reason she made it up is for the reason you suggest. It could be it was a way to get you to be a little more aggressive. To pursue a little more. You've been the lighthouse since she contacted you. Letting her do the all of the pursuing. I know you think you know her, but 4 years is a long time. And people do change.

My W used to be the type that never said what she was thinking if it was negative. Whether it was to spare someone's feelings, or whether it was to be seen as being nice, etc. But in the last couple of years that's completely changed. She just says it now. I could give you specific examples of things she's said in the last 2 years, not only to me but to other people, that she never would have said 3-4 years ago and earlier. People change.

Still your instincts have been right on with most of this so I would lean towards your instincts on this. I am not as sure about artista's theory as you are, but again I'd go with your instincts on that one. But the one thing I can't get past is her constantly mentioning sex with you and your endowment. Women that aren't interested do not make comments like that. They just don't. I honestly believe that those comments are hints trying to spur you to action, and she is too afraid of rejection to be more direct. But I could be wrong.

IH - With all that's happened, I sympathize with your approach now. I think the window where you could've done something has passed. But also, I don't see an escalation on her part and that's just garbage.

Even though I agree with Steve about the sexual innuendo and all of that as hints, I don't know about you, but I personally would be tired of that. I'd want her to come at me direct if that's what she wanted and if R was on her mind. I don't want meek interest, I want real pursuit and to be shown that I am really valued and wanted.

Yes, the man has to take charge and the lead and all of that, but that makes way more sense when it's the start of a new R without too much history and baggage. I am firmly of the belief that the person who did the initial rejection has to make the bolder moves if the want something to happen. Why would I as the LBS put myself in a position of rejection again - I mean you could if you were completely detached and want an answer and then figure out what you want to do. You can come at it from a position of strength no doubt.

I think the fact that you're willing to walk away is good. You could've either asked her and made a move and got an answer, or pursue this second path of now just going dark and moving on with your life. I don't think either of them are wrong, but the first is just more active and taking charge.

I would also be bored by now with this ridiculous yo-yo behavior. I'd want to see some more initiative and risk taking on her part. No more beating about the bush. Some people might say that women generally have a harder time with that and will play more coy or whatever. I don't buy that bull$hit. If they were straight up about separating and taking that risk, then they can put their heart out again and take that risk. I personally wouldn't take anything less than that.

So yeh, go do your thing and put W in the rearview mirror. She's gotta come at you direct. That's just my take and it may be too harsh. But after reading so many sitch's here, I want a woman who has no problem communicating what she wants and comes after it. Anything less and I am not interested.

Originally Posted by Steve85

But the one thing I can't get past is her constantly mentioning sex with you and your endowment. Women that aren't interested do not make comments like that. They just don't. I honestly believe that those comments are hints trying to spur you to action, and she is too afraid of rejection to be more direct. But I could be wrong.

in general, women may not make those types of comments... however, an ex-W or a Wayward Wife will make those types of comments to pacify the guy... it's a place holder... she is kind of flattering him to keep him around... tell me, in your opinion (Steve85) why didn't she stay the night? why does she continue to say she isn't interested in a relationship? if she wanted to take things further, why doesn't she change her mind about the two of them going to Vegas together? that one would be easy...

her calling back and asking if he were mad at her for not staying says a lot... it says that she believes she is calling the shots in their pow-wow relationship, and she wants to make sure they are on the same page...

my two cents--

--artista

Very well could be. At a minimum I think she is sending mixed messages. In my opinion there are two reasons people do that. 1) they are playing games. 2) they are themselves conflicted.

In that case I would say it is more 2 than 1. But again, I could be wrong. I know in the case of me and Kayla (that isn't her real name by the way!), she was definitely #1. She said it purposely to keep me on me attached. I don't see IH's ex doing that, or what she has to gain by doing that. But again, I could be misreading it.

Well I may not necessarily agree with Artista on that particular item. The reason being is WAW well knows that many other women are at my disposal when it comes to sex. She also knows they are good looking ladies. So I don't think she keeps mentioning that as a way to appease me because that would make no sense when she knows all I have to do is drop a text to Sue let's say, and I will be having sex that night. So I don't see WAW thinking I care that much about what she happens to think of my penis. Now if I was with no other options than WAW and WAW knew that, then perhaps WAW appeasing me would be a consideration. But as it is now, WAW knows I can have sex whenever I want...I think this is why she mentioned before the bonfire that it wasn't a romantic meeting and asked if I still wanted to take her. Because she knows I could take someone else where I knew the night would end with sex. So I don't think she had that self confidence as far as thinking I want to sleep with her and only her. I think she brings up my penis because she herself misses it. It's always in the same conversation where she is complaining about the ways other guys let her down. That's when that comes up.

For example, something I forgot to post that she said Saturday night...
She said something like "guys just don't know how to hit the spot! It's frustrating!"
After she said that I looked at her in the eyes and said..."Ummm excuse me? I know how to hit the spot...so please spare me." At that point she immediately starting laughing and said "Yeah, yeah you do."

Now I agree with some who say that I am not getting enough agressiveness from her. This is the main reason I haven't tried anything yet with her. She really hasn't earned it in my head. She needs to flirt more and be a bit more suggestive before I do anything like that. In that respect I agree with Artista....she has had plenty of opportunities to initiate sex, or at the very least opportunity to create a situation where sex could happen, and she hasn't. I just think this is because WAW is telling the truth here...she's not ready for sex with me...or anyone. She has this need for self sufficiency and independence right now. The same reason she left for Florida 4 years ago...to be independent. Trouble is she lived with her best friend down there and thusly never achieved that. So she's doing it here alone now. She has mentioned a few times that she went from living with her parents to moving in with me for 18 years, to moving in with her friend in FL. That she has never been on her own. So that's where I think she's at. I believe her when she says she's not seriously dating. So her relationship hesitation is less about me in particular and more about men in general. That's what my instincts tell me.

But in any case, I agree with Maika in that she's the one who walked, so she needs to chase...and chase hard. Sure she's been pretty relentless in terms of wanting to see me pretty much once a week or so and has always initiated said meetings. That was great early on...but now it's getting old. I need to see more aggressiveness from her, more intense pursuit out of fear of losing me from her. So until I see that there won't be any more meetings.

I simply don't understand why so many women want to be "friends" with their LBH who didn't want to end things. It just doesn't compute for me. If my W takes this through to D, I will have to remain cordial with her because of our kids. But I will never, ever want only friendship after having been together for 20 years in a manner way beyond friendship. How is this sort of thing even rationalized? How could someone ever think that it is in any way reasonable? My W has said BS like that to me since BD, "I want us to be close friends" and similar. It's like a sick joke. A seriously deep twisting of the knife.

I'm sorry for the rant, but it just fills me with so much anger and hurt given my current sitch.

Remaining close friends helps to ease their guilt, they believe it is a way to let the LBS down easy. You can still be a good co-parent without being close friends.

I made it very clear to my XW that I am not her maintenance man, shoulder to cry on, first person she calls for advice, and I have no desire to know anything about people she is dating unless it involves our girls. She has respected my wishes..we are cordial and friendly but that is where it stops.

Originally Posted by hongaku

I simply don't understand why so many women want to be "friends" with their LBH who didn't want to end things. It just doesn't compute for me. If my W takes this through to D, I will have to remain cordial with her because of our kids. But I will never, ever want only friendship after having been together for 20 years in a manner way beyond friendship. How is this sort of thing even rationalized? How could someone ever think that it is in any way reasonable? My W has said BS like that to me since BD, "I want us to be close friends" and similar. It's like a sick joke. A seriously deep twisting of the knife.

I'm sorry for the rant, but it just fills me with so much anger and hurt given my current sitch.

It eases their guilt. Conflict avoid. Wants only the parts of you they want. It's cruel, but there is nothing really baffling about the psychology around it.

And is your STBX actually acting and thinking reasonably right now? Nahhhhhh.

Also, I don't think they really mean it as much as use it as a way of letting the LBS down easy.

Well in my case it's been 4 years since she left. So unless WAW's intelligence level has dropped to that of your average salad vegetable; I'm sure she is well aware I don't need to be let down easy anymore LOL! I doubt that's my WAW's reason for wanting to see me. I think she wants to see what will happen down the road. There's no way she suddenly appears as soon as my long time relationship with Mary ended to let me down easy LOL! She knew she has long been an old newspaper already to me.

I can tell you that my XW runs very hot and cold. Some weeks she is very chatty, reaching out to me for various things, sending me text messages about the kids, etc. and other weeks she seems angry, upset, withdrawn and reaches out barely at all. She definitely seems to cycle in her moods.

Before she moved out she said all the right things to help ease me down but once she moved and got her own place she initially became very cold and distant. You could tell she was flexing on her new found freedom. GGW until she found her current boyfriend now she doesn't goo to the gym any more, isn't eating healthy, stopped the fake tanning and eyelashes so she seems to have stopped peacocking since she has a man. I say that but she did get fake boobs

When your in it I can say it was very hard to see however now with space and distance is has all become very clear.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Well I may not necessarily agree with Artista on that particular item. The reason being is WAW well knows that many other women are at my disposal when it comes to sex. She also knows they are good looking ladies. So I don't think she keeps mentioning that as a way to appease me because that would make no sense when she knows all I have to do is drop a text to Sue let's say, and I will be having sex that night. So I don't see WAW thinking I care that much about what she happens to think of my penis.

your take is not at all what i mean... her "appeasement" has nothing to do with sex... it has nothing to do with your sex life... she does not care if you are having sex with other women or not... she is flattering you to keep you thinking she just might be interested--just enough... she does this to keep you around... she assumes you are interested... she has let you know that she is not interested by telling you she is not wanting any relationship with any man right now, and that includes you... but she can't just leave it at that, because that might lead you to completely walk away from her... however, if she makes these flattering comments about your penis, you might stick around and hang out with her... as i have said before, it's all a balancing act...

the balancing act goes like this: WW or WAW or ExW is nice, warm, kind, easy to get along with until she thinks she may have gone too far... and she thinks she has gone to far by LBS responses to her... if she gets the sense that he is getting the wrong idea--which is her wanting to relationship--then she pulls back... she is cold, angry, easily upset, or she is simply not as available... when she pulls back just enough to make LBS realize that she is not interested in a relationship, she warms up again... is more available again... she does not want to give him the wrong idea, while she wants to keep him around for friendship, or plan b... or as a provider when the marriage is in limbo or when they are semi-separated...

p.s.--i agree with Maika... that was a fantastic post...

Well WAW hasn't gone cold though. "Cold" to me implies she stops contact, goes distant, doesn't answer texts, doesn't answer calls etc. We'll my WAW can't go cold on me because I haven't given her the means to. She can't not reply to my texts because I never send her any. She can't let my calls go to voicemail because I never call her. She can't refuse my initiation for meetups because I never initiate them...and most of all she can't refuse me sex because I haven't tried to get it. So really, from where I'm standing, the only one with the ability to go cold would be me. There's simply nothing for her to cold with as far as me.

Hey guys,
Well WAW just texted me about the passing of Aretha Franklin and said that my Mom, whom you guys may remember passed away a couple years back, "is getting all the greats up there with her."
I'm not sure why she is messaging me about Aretha, there was no major connection with any of us to Aretha as none of us were overt fans other than the basic respect for her. Very puzzling to me and I'm not sure how to reply to this. I think I'm ignoring it. I still intend on going dark here so I don't think a reply is a good idea. Thoughts?

If going dark is your plan, then did she ask you a question? If not, you got the message. Move on.

Nope she didn't ask me a question at all. Just mentioned that. What a weird text and why would she think of my Mom regarding it? I'm just not replying. I've had enough of her BS. If she follows up with something else I'll be back to let you know.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Nope she didn't ask me a question at all. Just mentioned that. What a weird text and why would she think of my Mom regarding it? I'm just not replying. I've had enough of her BS. If she follows up with something else I'll be back to let you know.

I don't think she's BS'ing you, she's just content to keep things as friends for now and maybe for good. We've said this before but you've got two choices- 1) continue being friends and see if eventually it becomes something more or 2) put your foot down and say being friends is not acceptable to you and tell her you either need to date for real or you're done with her. I think when we brought this up before you were OK with 1). But if that's no longer the case then it may be time for the ultimatum in 2). I wouldn't just go dark on her though, you really have nothing to lose by talking to her about it. You're not dealing with a WAS anymore.

Well I am fine with #1 but Artista suggested I pull way back. As I've said before how exactly do I do that when I don't initiate anything. So if she sends me a text I only have two options...reply or not reply. So if I want to pull back what options do I have here? As I said, I never text her first, call her first, or anything like that. So pulling back from what exactly is my ultimate question here.

yep, IH. I'd do what you are doing. Answer questions, no need to respond to informational texts.

I agree with AnotherStander, she's not BS'ing you. I think she is trying to figure out who she is and what she wants in life, and she's very comfortable with you and values your presence/opinion. That doesn't mean she wants a relationship with you. Maybe in the future, but I just think she sounds confused about her life in general. It sounds like her bringing up sexual history is very confusing for you. My STBXW and I are friends and if we didn't make it a boundary we won't cross, she could easily talk to me about sexual stuff the way you two seem to be doing. It's happened before with us, but we decided that was definitely a boundary we can't cross. If you want to be her friend, stick around and see what happens with no expectations. If you don't want a friend, but you would want a relationship let her know. But in my opinion, she doesn't know what she wants.

I guess that's how I'll approach it Steve. If she asks a question I'll answer her. But if she tries to initiate hanging out I'm not doing it. Or maybe if she tries to initiate hanging out I will propose an obvious date situation like dinner and a band or something. If she refuses then so be it. I'm just going to treat her like I do other women I date. I don't go hang out with them, we go out. If she's that dead set against romance with me then eventually she'll stop asking to hang out anyway. So I guess I can let the trash take itself out here.As I always say, I want her...but I most definitely don't need her to maintain my happiness.

I think you are right MRay. I don't think she knows what she wants. I never believed that she ruled out R with me. I just don't think she wants it now...and that's fine. I am living my life as it comes...not waiting around for her or bothering her. The only time I communicate with her is when she starts it. I am just fine if weeks, even months, go by without speaking to her. I did it for 4 years so it's not a problem or a trauma for me. I think she is trying to figure out what she wants. But if she wants to hang our again, it's going to be dinner and a band or nothing. My mind is made up in that regard. No more pow-wows as I call them LOL!

I must say, I do feel a bit badly not replying to her...almost mean.

Honestly, I think it comes off as a bit petty. Since coming back into your life I don't think she's wronged you in any way, and she's been pretty honest about her intentions. She won't really know why you have suddenly pulled back, and I don't think that will intrigue her or prompt her to suddenly pursue you. I could be wrong I'm no expert, but I just don't support ignoring her.

Yeah I'm second guessing myself too. I think I can still briefly talk to her...I'll just refrain from meeting her (unless it's under an obvious date situation.)

At this point, I don't think it hurts to respond back. I'm with MRay on this one. A simple - 'thanks for the message' or something very neutral would be better than not responding at all. You're just keeping communication lines open. That's it. Meeting her is a different story and I think your strategy on that is pretty fair.

Agrees Maika. I replied to her about 5 minutes ago and said yeah it's a shame that we lost Aretha Franklin and Elvis on the same date. She replied back right away with "Oh wow I didn't realize that." I left it at that. I feel better now...it felt too cruel and unwarranted to just ignore her. But yes, meeting up isn't happening unless it's an obvious date situation now...and that I won't feel bad about.

So texting only friends?

ItHurt, that sounds like the right thing to do to send a brief response. It sounds like you'll keep receiving these kinds of texts. I like your approach but I can't help but be curious what would happen if you told her, "that's it! No more hanging out as friends!"

Well Steve I think it's more texting as "what it is." She knows where I'm coming from as I do her. It's probably from different places at this point but I think that aspect should only pertain to us spending live time together. If she wants to keep the lines of communication open that's fine, but if she wants to her together again...it's dinner and a band or nothing...and that's without the "this isn't a date" BS. As a single man pushing 50, if I'm going to give up a weekend night to a woman, it's not going to be so she can hug me at the end of the night. So yeah I guess if she wants to shoot me a text every now and again so be it.

I haven't had and don't have the need to text her or talk to her, so I don't. I guess it's an arrogance in me (that I'm not sure is a good thing or a bad thing overall) that tells me that she can't stay away. Deep down I always knew one day she'd seek me out again. There's a reason that all of the women I've been with in my life always said of me something to the effect of " you're one of a kind" and "there's only one ItHurts" and the like. I am aware that I'm not like most guys. WAW knows this better than anyone and she was always quick to boast about it before we started having our marriage problems. So I guess I just believe deep down that she needs me more than I need her. For whatever reason it is...she needs me in her life...if it's friendship then so be it. After all as Joseph Campbell once said "Love is a friendship set to music." So I guess we'll see if the juke box strarts spinning some tunes soon enough.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

As a single man pushing 50, if I'm going to give up a weekend night to a woman, it's not going to be so she can hug me at the end of the night.

That's the best thing I have heard you say since you have been on this board!

IH, I don't know because you ended by saying "For whatever reason it is...she needs me in her life...if it's friendship then so be it." That seems counter to what you have been saying since the last meetup.

I guess I am confused. I know with Kayla in the past, she would call me (this was before texting) without anything to say. And this prompted me to start doing the same. This went on for a while. She had a new BF but when he wasn't around or not meeting her emotional needs etc, she'd call me.

"Hi."

"HI."

"WHat are you doing?"

"Nothing much, you?"

"Nothing."

Awkward silence.

"Steve!"

"What?"

"I don't know, I just miss you."

"Oh. Yeah, I miss you too."

"Oh I talked to so-and-so the other day, first time in a longtime....."

Enter mindless banter.

I occasionally made the same type of call.

One day I decided, I am not doing that anymore. First if she calls, I am not answering. If it was more of the above then she won't leave a message. If it is more important than the above she'll leave a message and either want me to call her back or leave the information she wanted to convey in the VM.

I am not calling her unless I have something pressing to ask her or tell her. I was done being the "I need someone to talk to about anything so I'll call Steve" guy.

I guess I wonder if you are at that point with her? Text like the one she sent conveyed info she wanted to send. No question, no query, nothing that required a response. SO why respond at all? Why indulge this "I need to text someone about Aretha......there is no one else.......so I'll text my consolation prize." In fact, as I look back this whole "we can be friends until we meet someone we REALLY like and want more with" is the same dynamic.

Anyway, IH just trying to give you a different perspective. I am often full of crap so ignore this completely if you want. But I have been mulling on AS's stance of you aren't or shouldn't DB her anymore. However, many of the concepts that DBing advocates applies to potentially new relationships too. And you and her are definitely that. Think about the girls that you met that were immediately overly clingy and needy. It turned you off didn't it? Now what if they were lovingly detached from the getgo? Suddenly your interest in them was higher. They weren't constantly calling,. texting, showing up at places you were at.

So if you felt compelled to respond, a simple "True." or something along those lines might have sufficed.

Anyway, I agree you shouldn't settle for the friendzone here.......but I think you shouldn't be in her friend zone as just a text buddy either. Just my two cents.

Good morning. I woke up to another text from WAW asking if I got my new car yet. I'll answer her later in the day but I sense she is preparing to ask to hang out tonight or tomorrow. I could be wrong but it's what I am sending is coming bad soon as I reply. I'll keep you guys updated.

Well Steve, I think you are confused because I myself was confused. As the day wore on yesterday I started to feel like I was being a jerk to her, for no reason really, by not replying at all. So I thought about it and determined that my REAL issue with her isn't the texting or the small talk...it's the meetups that were the annoying thing to me. They were going nowhere. So I decided that that's where I will focus my abstinence...on the meetups. That's what WAW wants most...to hang out...the texting she does is just to keep the reconnection we have alive so that those meetups can happen. But now I'm not going to be available for them as before. The meetups need to be in a romantic context. Say for instance this was a new girl and she texted me. I would answer her, but if I didn't see any romantic escalation with her she would drop to the bottom of the totem pole of priority for me. Meaning she wouldn't get immediate replies, she wouldn't get lengthy replies, smd she certainly wouldn't get a "friend" meet up. This is how I am handling WAW, the more she gives the more she'll get. Conversely the less she gives, the less she'll get.

Damn spell check!! That second sentence should read "... it's what I am sensing is coming as soon as I reply."

Originally Posted by Steve85

In fact, as I look back this whole "we can be friends until we meet someone we REALLY like and want more with" is the same dynamic.

Yeah I kind of get that sense as well. I just don't think things are going to progress beyond the friendzone at this point. In situations like this I always think of the phrase "fortune favors the bold." If you sit back and allow the status quo then the status quo is what you get, but if you want something different you've got to hop in the driver's seat and take control.

Quote

But I have been mulling on AS's stance of you aren't or shouldn't DB her anymore. However, many of the concepts that DBing advocates applies to potentially new relationships too.

To clarify, what I said was that he's not dealing with a WAS anymore. I completely agree that DB'ing techniques are for life, many of them never end. I use DB'ing techniques (validation in particular) with my GF, my kids and even people I work with. Here's what I was trying to say and may not have been clear on- this isn't a case of pulling back and giving her time and space and being a "friendly neighbor" to her, because she is no longer a WAS. I also don't believe simply going dark is going to accomplish anything towards bringing her closer. I do think this is a case of "state what you want". That's not something you do with a WAS, but it is something you do elsewhere in life. If it were me I would just tell her "I get the sense that you just want to be friends, but to be honest I am looking for a romantic relationship. If that's too much for you then I think it would be best if we parted ways so I can pursue that with someone else." If she says she's not interested in that, THEN go dark.

Originally Posted by ItHurts

This is how I am handling WAW, the more she gives the more she'll get. Conversely the less she gives, the less she'll get.

Well again, "fortune favors the bold". My M made me very beta. Typical dinner convo would be "what do you want to eat tonight?" "I don't know, what do you want?" I'm not sure, what sounds good?" Etc. etc. Not anymore. When I go out with my GF I say "we're going to ride the bike over and have BBQ, OK?" I TELL her where we're going and if she doesn't like it then she needs to speak up. And not just about dinner, but about everything. And she said she LOVES it, she loves to have a man in control. Be aggressive and alpha. YOU make the moves. If she shoots you down then you blow her off and move on to someone more receptive. THAT is what being alpha is all about, you're not just putting all your eggs in one basket and sitting back indefinitely to see if any hatch. You tell her what you want and she has two choices, get on board or get left behind while someone else gets on board.

IH, I can understand that. But at some point the texting will become bothersome too. Just like my phone calls about nothing with Kayla. It was one of those things where I craved the contact so much, but after it was over it was completely unsatisfying. Kind of like when you are jonesing for a steak. So you order one and it is sub-par. You leave the restaurant disappointed because while you might be full, it wasn't what you were hoping for or expecting. In fact, you kind of wish you had just gone for a burger or something else instead.

That is the way it became with Kayla. The first few times her number came up on caller ID, and I didn't answer, I was anxious. But then as I waited to see if she left a message, and she didn't, I actually had a weirdly satisfied feeling. Like the sub-par nature of the conversation I just avoided was something I knew would have followed.....so then I went got a burger! LOL

When you get a text like that. THen respond, and she responds again. And the dust has settled, do you get that unsatisfied feeling? Maybe not yet but if this continues then eventually you will.

Also, let me ask you this, immediately after the D, would have been open to being a text buddy with her? Or would you have shut that down?

I am just spitballing here, but I feel for you man. I know you had your hopes up, as did all of us for you, and so far it seems like the sub-par steak.

Hey guys,
Yeah I can see how these texts would get cumbersome for me after time. When they do I will shut it down. Right now, for whatever reason, I just don't think on it too much. I guess right now my plan is to allow these texts as a means to keep the line of communication open so that I can be the alpha and push for the date the next time she wants to hang out. I figured if I ignored her yesterday, that would probably only induce silence. I need her to ask to hang out again at which time I will propose dinner and a band. I once read of a "false friendship" back when the bomb drop was relatively new to me and I was reading about saving my marriage...in fact it was around the time I found this site, ordered Michelle's book, and started my journey. That's kind of what I am doing here...fostering a false friendship as my "in." Then I exploit that slowly to push for dates. So basically this friendship is a guise, for me, to keep the lines of communication open for now until I reach the point where she rejects me. Then at that point I go dark and vanish...and she won't be wondering why, she'll know why.

Having said this I can feel it coming...she's going to try and initiate a meet up this weekend as soon as I reply to her car question. I could be wrong, but it's a feeling I have. So my date proposal may happen sooner here rather than later.

Originally Posted by AnotherStander

[ YOU make the moves. If she shoots you down then you blow her off and move on to someone more receptive.

ummm...I have only been telling IH that for 3 months now.

IDK, seems all so covert and manipulative. Is this what you would do with a new woman that showed some interest. Or would you just say "Hey, tonight XYZ band is playing at the State Theatre. Would you like to go see them, maybe catch a bite to eat before the show?"

Or would you wait for her to ask "can we hang out tonight?" before asking.

Obviously this is all uncharted territory for me. I've never divorced then years later tried for R. Maybe your approach is right and as I've said before now that I am older I am just more forward.

Well think of it like this. Right now WAW is really MY plan B. I'm seeing other ladies and having fun doing so. And let's face it...it is pretty obvious that R is not going to ever happen so for now I am entertaining her efforts to communicate solely so I have an in to push for a date...or maybe even a couple dates. If she wants to spend time with me it's going to be on my terms only. If she can't live up to that then she's going to have to accept that casual texts here and there is all she's getting. If she wants to see me bad enough...then she can go on a date with me...she had no other options at this point. It's put up or shut up time for her. Maybe I should say "put out" there LOL!

Originally Posted by ItHurts

Well think of it like this. Right now WAW is really MY plan B. I'm seeing other ladies and having fun doing so. And let's face it...it is pretty obvious that R is not going to ever happen so for now I am entertaining her efforts to communicate solely so I have an in to push for a date...or maybe even a couple dates. If she wants to spend time with me it's going to be on my terms only. If she can't live up to that then she's going to have to accept that casual texts here and there is all she's getting. If she wants to see me bad enough...then she can go on a date with me...she had no other options at this point. It's put up or shut up time for her. Maybe I should say "put out" there LOL!

OK, I get that and I think that's a good place to be. We don't really see the whole picture of your life and interactions here, so we're just responding to what we do see which is "XW texted this and I texted that" so basically we just see the interactions between you two as the entire picture rather than it just being part of a bigger picture.

Sandi just posted this in Did's thread and it's good food for thought:

Originally Posted by sandi2

Quote

W says. We haven't been together for over a year. I'd like to try to slowly be friends and see how that goes.

WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! Trap ahead!

Quote

But you want me to like commit to something and that is never going to happen because it's just not smart or healthy. We don't even know each other anymore. I'd like to get to know you, trust would be a very slow thing for me. But I don't think you would be ok w my speed

Read these words carefully. She is talking about having you only as a friend..�.not a lover, and not a husband.

Men and women see being "friends" differently after they separate. Men think they can win her back if he's her friend. But let me tell you what "friend" means in girl code...�..no sexual attraction. She'll use you when she has nobody else....and expect you to hop the minute you hear that phone ping. This is the perfect opportunity for you to go dark on her. Stop playing BFF and have the b@lls to stop responding to her text messages. She is simply using you b/c she's bored and doesn't have anyone else to pester every few minutes with her texting addiction.

If you'll tell her you aren't interested in signing up for the buddy club, and stop interacting with her, you just might be able to get her back. But first, you have to jumpstart her sexual attraction, and you do that by dumping her!

Okay so today she's a texting machine! She just texted to let me know that some snacks I like are on sale at her grocery store. So I guess she remembers the junk food I like at least.

Oh I didn't see that last post about Sandi. The difference is WAW knows full well that I am NOT at her beck and call. she knows I make zero effort to communicate with her. She knows I can go weeks, months without talking to her. She knows have a bust social life. So if my WAW is sitting at home grinning and saying to herself..."yeah he can't resist me" then she's an idiot. She had zero reason to think that...and going forward with my plan of no meetups, she'll see that even more clearly.

IH, what is the latest?

^^^

So if my WAW is sitting at home grinning and saying to herself..."yeah he can't resist me" then she's an idiot. She had zero reason to think that...and going forward with my plan of no meetups, she'll see that even more clearly.

that's what you say and that's what you think... but you have given yourself--your inner-self--away... you are there when she calls on you... you have overstayed... you have replied to insignificant temp-checking texts from her... you have made a comment here and there that tells her more than you think... all those teeny-tiny little things are all she needs from you at this time...

It's been weeks, where have you been? Most likely nothing new to report but you've got to have something going on so give us an update buddy!

Hi Don, see my new thread.

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