Beginnings / Endings / Revelations

For the newbies who don't know my journey:

Over a year ago out of nowhere W gave me a shocking BD - she has been unhappy for YEARS, and she wanted a separation, and a divorce. We had bought our first home together six months back. A perfect home for our kids and us. Everything that we had dreamed of. We were both in good jobs and first time in our MR it seemed that we were going to be stable.

W started a new grad program which is very high energy with a lotta new people. She got very close to a guy who was also going through some MR troubles and had an EA - even though I don't think she recognizes it as such, it was definitely that. He made a move on her and kissed her, which she apparently rebuffed. Couple of other things that happened gave me a pause to actually believing that story.

We sold the house and moved into two places. She got a place right away and I stayed in the MR home till closing - which was hell. Kids were ripped apart. We agreed to 50/50 split. I was devastated. W gave me the same old story as we see here.

I started IC right away and GALing. Picked up climbing, started working out, and getting healthy.

It's a year from that event, and you can read my full journey in the threads above. I had a lot of falls, but I picked myself up. I temp checked W a few months after BD and it gave me clarity to as to what to do next, but it destroyed me in the process too - she flat out told me that there was no second chance and this was permanent.

I honestly know feel that I am emotionally and mentally stronger and grounded. I did not pursue, and focused on myself. I am not out of the woods by any means, but I am here standing tall with my integrity intact. I did not date as it seemed very premature and I am still not ready for that.

D is going to happen because I am going to file - not because I am giving up, but I am in a place where I know what I need from a partner and she doesn't bring that to the table as of now. She has also shown no sign of turning the ship around. I can file after end of June, and I will decide how to go about it then.

In the meantime, I also got two tats and getting inked again this week, with plans to complete my sleeve by the end of the year. I am looking good, and more importantly, feeling awesome and ladies have noticed. So, I know I am going to be more than good.

I said that I wouldn't be starting a new thread after my last one, but I realized how important journaling has been to my growth and progress and so I started this thread to just put thoughts down. If it helps anyone, that's a bonus.

Thanks again to everyone here who helped me on my journey. It did save my life.

Nothing has changed in my sitch. The 12 months of separation are up and I can legally file for D whenever I want now. I am just taking some more time to think about it and make sure it is coming from the right place and that I am not being emotionally impulsive. W has not filed and I am not sure why as she put all of this in motion and did bring up D early on after BD.

I have been reflecting a lot lately, and reading and watching videos on a variety of topics including self-care, self-love, self-improvement, self-discipline, etc to gain some more perspective, and it's been quite helpful.

Since early May of this year, life has been kinda upside down and interesting. I spent so much of early 2018 doubling down on DB and building myself and working on my weak spots and i thought things were incrementally improving for me. But life had other plans. All the plans I had made for this summer and in general got turned upside down and I could do nothing but reflect on what happened. All the issues that I was working on - not being controlling, not having rigid plans, working on goals of being healthy (eating right, working out, climbing) are being put to the test.

As I reflect on what happened since May, I believe that life basically gave me another reality check. That maybe BD didn't actually jolt me out of what I needed to work on and when I thought things were improving, life decided that it was time to test me and see if I had actually learned any thing. Every single goal that I had has been put to the test. It is one thing to create the vision of where you want to go and what you want to do, but another thing entirely when life decides to see what you're made of.

If I am unable to execute on my plans and goals, then who am I in the interim, waiting for the time when I can start working on them again? How do I handle well laid out, flexible plans being thrown out of the window? How am I going to talk to myself about it? All these questions came to the forefront.

The other thing I have had a great chance to reflect on is why I wasn't able to execute my goals as faithfully as I wanted to when things were going good. I was doing good but not 100% in my actions. After deeply thinking about it, i realized that I am afraid of success. Deeply afraid of being a success story.

The trauma that I have experienced in my life carefully created this victim story that I could tell myself and others. This victim narrative is warm and cozy. It is a safe place. It gives me all the reasons why I can't do something. It gives me the space to shed all accountability and ownership.

I am afraid of losing that warm space. If I become a success story in life, then I can't claim to be a victim. My safe space and crutch and coping mechanisms are gone. I can't go back to them and change my story. I realized that this attachment is holding me back from being the amazing person I know I can be, and crush it in life and work. I had developed all these awesome processes and methods to achieve my goals, and they work for me from a process point of view, but I was still unable to follow through. And I didn't know why. Now I know - I love being a victim. It brings sympathetic attention to me. People can feel sorry for me and give me whatever love and affection they can so that it may soothe me. It's sick.

One of the things in DB we talk about is focus on yourself. Probably one of the most important pieces of advice I can endorse. Don't just focus on yourself, take it to the next step - go inwards into yourself and find out who you are; what are you afraid of; look at yourself with very truthful eyes and vocalize it. Only if you do that then you can come out and improve your life.

In the few years before BD, I was a pathetic person - no ambition or drive; not very communicative; didn't take care of my appearance or spirit; a heavy cloudball of depression; judgmental and controlling. It must've $ucked ball$ to be around me. When I look back at that man, I feel disgusted and grossed out. I was such a terrible hot mess.

I don't say this to beat myself up, but looking at myself through those truthful eyes. I was a sad person to be around. the light in me had been extinguished and I was just surviving day by day, not living or reveling in life.

I have taken active steps to not be that person and I am fortunate to where I have gotten so far. I know I have ways to go, and life threw the second chance at me to take stock of my efforts and my dedication.

Does any of this justify BD and her not giving me a chance - no, I don't think so. But my side of the street was extremely filthy and I was rolling around in the dirt without a care in the world.

I am still in the throes of this second chance, this test that life has thrown at me to see if I actually did make the changes that I thought I had made. And see how patient I have become. It has been a grind and I've had frustrating days, but I am still standing tall and not defeated.

The other thing that I have learned about introspection and going inwards is that - pay attention to the lens through which you being the introspective journey. If you're excavating the past through the lens of pain, all you will see is red and victimhood. Instead, become more self-aware and introspect through curiosity and wanting to see the truth, and you will see the story as it is rather than how you want to paint the picture.

For the practical people here - this deep inward journey has come about through meditation and journaling. Simple meditation - focusing on the breath and the body and becoming aware of how my body responds. Journaling in an actual diary on whatever I am thinking or wanting to explore - this has been mind blowing and I have uncovered insights that I had no idea about.

So, take that journey inside of you. Blur the noise from the outside. Then you will truly find out who you are and what you are made of and what you need to do in terms of action.

I was already doing this but last week I saw an interview with David Goggins on the show Impact Theory on Youtube. I highly recommend checking his interview out. His worldview is not for everyone, but he put in words what I was trying to do and gave me really good direction. Other interviews on Impact Theory are incredible too.

So, I will come back to this thread to journal on and off, and report any changes in the sitch. Right now I am fully focused on physical therapy to get over my injuries preventing me from working out and climbing. I am going at my healing hard - the internal and external.

We live on love M. It is the origin of us. We get love, we give love.

Enjoy the love you get. Enjoy the love you give.

(((M)))

You got it right Nef! Love is the core of everything. My journey has shown that to truly develop authentic and deep self-love so that you can achieve what you want, you first have to see the brutal truth about yourself.

Right M. That inner voyage is what we all avoid to do. It is about finding ourselves. Be proud of your achievements man! I am in the middle of mine, and always finding excuses to slow the pace... Just keep walking, I�m doing the same.

I agree 100%. I can't emphasize enough the importance of that inner voyage. No goals, processes, methods will truly work for you until you do the internal hard work. What is the story that you tell yourself about who you are? What is 'why' you want to do something or be something? And that answer has to be real - not what someone else might want to hear or what's the right thing to say.

For me it's been leaning into my fears and going 'towards the roar'. I am just starting to do the hard work in terms of action and embracing the $uck, as David Goggins puts it.

For me it�s been finding my origin...well...you have read my sitch.

We are not alone man, we are not alone.

Maika, there's a lot I wish to write but one observation is that you don't sound like a victim at all, not even last year when I first starting reading your thread. It's interesting to hear that's what you hold inside of you. We humans really have deep interior parts of ourselves that we keep well hidden. It must have been difficult to confront these parts of yourself but you're working through them. It seems that you really, truly have changed. You're not just changing on the exterior level but it sounds like you've morphed into a new person. I think I may have missed why you've been struggling with your goals recently but hopefully you're offering yourself some leniency. You've been through a lot. Goals are great to have and create structure in your life but maybe another realization you'll have is that you're also human and some goals will be more like moving targets. I look forward to hearing how the divorce process goes for you and what lies ahead. You're one of the ones who seems like you'll do great in your next relationship. It's hard to believe you were as bad as you say you were before your wife left because you have great communication skills and you seem to have such a positive attitude but even if you were the person you said you were before, you still deserve to be loved and supported! We all go through low points in our lives and we don't deserve to be abandoned every time we're not doing well. That's one of the reasons why I'd still give my husband another chance if he turns his life around. We're all human, we're all imperfect, and we all still deserve to be loved!

Nicole, you wrote a wonderful message.

Hey Nicole. Thanks for that message. Yeh I don't think I truly understood the core of my issues and where it was coming from until recently, and so probably wasn't able to articulate it well.

I believe that understanding the story that I had created for myself and that I would rely on and tell myself, even subconsciously, really affected how I approached life in general. Achieving goals is part of that, but not the full picture. It's all about the mindset and how I started the race with all this baggage that I didn't really understand. And then not winning the race and blaming the baggage that I was carrying. I didn't know that I could drop the bags and run better. But I liked carrying the baggage because it gave me a safe space and I could blame it for my failures, rather than seeing what's inside the bag and letting it go. And then eventually allowing myself to drop the bag entirely and see that I could still run the race. The whole time the story was that I needed the baggage to run the race, but not recognizing that now in my life I had a choice.

But making that different choice is terrifying because as soon as I let go of the baggage and win the race, it's going to disappear and I can't use it again. And then I have to run this race all by myself and take full ownership of it.

So success, as much as I really want it and know that I can achieve it, gets me scared. And that the person I will be at the end of it will be a different person that has been for the last few decades. And I do want to do that, but I have been afraid of it.

I am working through this right now because telling myself the story of victimhood hasn't served me well.

I agree with you that people deserve to be supported and love, outside of abuse. And even though I was a cloud of depression, I deserved W's support and her to kick my a$$ to get it in gear. Instead of doing that, she decided to bail. I know I should've supported her better and pushed her on the anxiety issues, but I didn't due to my own limitations. However, I took the commitment of marriage seriously and when BD happened, I was more than willing to put in the hard work. Unfortunately, she didn't.

In life, it's always easier to cut and run. Plenty of decisions I can see where that would've been the easy and more comfortable route. But I have in life made that decision to take the harder route because I knew that the gains at the end would be even better.

Just imagine if your H had decided to put in the work with you and struggled together, what type of relationship you would have right now. It would be damn almost unbreakable.

And that's why I have no time for $hit like if this person is right for you or not, or if they have this fault or not etc etc, outside of mental health and addiction and abuse issues. Most likely there were some things about this person that you cherished and liked, and they are still in there with them. Now follow through on the commitment and do the work.

I understand your sentiment about giving H another chance if he turned things around. I feel the same about W. The problem is that their timeline to do that is excruciatingly long, and in that timeline more damage is being inflicted. So, even if they do all the work and are ready to be with you, it's just become too late. What my W would have to do for me to consider a R is not unreasonable, but I know that it is a huge mountain for her to climb and I don't know when she'll be ready for that. And I can't wait for her to figure that out, even if I am moving forward in life while she's figuring it out.

So, that's why the D situation is a bit tricky right now. It's a huge decision on my part. That was not even in the realm of possibility for me when I took the commitment and vows. I was committed to the MR through thick and thin. Now if I file for D, I have to be fairly certain that the decision is coming from an equal place of commitment and strength for me.

I am also a bit curious to why I am hesitating right now to make this decision. She has not given any indication of any turn around. So, I am exploring my hesitation to see what is the road block for me and then see how to address it. It might be the fear of moving to a new chapter in life and leaving that bag on the floor and running. I don't know yet.

My immediate concerns right now are to get healthy and rehab my knee so that I can start working out and climbing again. Also looking to move to a new place to create some financial freedom and stability in the next few months. My current place is too big and expensive for me. I am looking to down size and bring down rent costs so that I can attack my debt and also save.

In the meantime, I am meditating daily, journaling a few times a week and cultivating a positive mindset and repairing my self-esteem and confidence.

M - I firmly believe that not every R is designed to last forever. I believe if a R ends, it ends because you got everything out of it that you could. I believe that the universe works this way.

My two best friends I have known since Kindergarten so almost 40 years. It takes all three of us to make it work and I believe we are still in each other's lives for a reason.

You should know by now whether or not you want to file for D. I am sure you still love your W, I am sure you still don't want a D, and I am sure you are still hoping for RECON. AND THAT IS OK!

M, I'm gonna take a straight swing at this quote:

"I am also a bit curious to why I am hesitating right now to make this decision."

Buddy you marvel me with your self-introspection, deep analysis, etc on yourself. Stuff that I simply don't have the depth or energy or whatever to do. So please forgive me when I go short and sweet with my opinion:

You are still in love with her and you still have hope inside you. No deep analysis required to explain that and that is OK! That is a MAN knowing his true feelings and while stronger within himself, not ready to give up.

Ain't got nothing to do with any more basic than that. u came here to hopefully not get divorced, allow yourself the grace to appreciate that is at your core.

2x4 me if I'm off base or disregard buddy...just calling this one as best as my untrained mind sees it.

I will have you in my prayers as you go through whatever the future holds for you.

-B

I could of wrote that myself.

Very good. Very detailed. And proof if you ever needed it that you are better now than you have ever been before.

Even with all the advise in the world - not many people have the ability strip away the many onion layers each of us has to see the truth underneath that we have built an ego/life around to avoid.

Great work Maika. *fistbump*

Thanks for the comments everyone.

J - yeah i agree. the longevity of the R is dependent on the independent and sometimes collective decisions of both people. If one decides differently, then that's that. You know that from first hand experience. I feel intellectually I know what I want when it comes to D, but the issue of small sliver of hope for recon might still be kicking around. Appreciate the affirmation about it being okay. Sometimes through this process it can feel guilty to still have feelings of hope and recon when so much has happened. As you know, I am probably one of the lucky ones where my W didn't go off the handle, and if she did do the GGW thing, it was out of the public eye and me.

B - that's an awesome insight. I honestly did not even think that could be a potential reason. I am going to have to reflect on that and see what to do with it. I am just letting it sit for now as I keep focus on some other immediate things. Also, I hope your insight on this makes you believe in yourself more and trust that you can see things for what they are.

Benni - 'fistbump' for reals. Yeah I know I am a way better person now. My past self is a shadow of what I am now. That trust is huge. Hope things are going well for you man.

I spent some time journaling again today and it was very helpful. I am moving past the victimhood stage and towards crafting my life for myself that is coming from strength and love.

I also connected with a close friend today and we had a long chat about life and marriage and everything. It was super good to have the connection.

Thanks everyone for entertaining my wild introspective rides. I'm around.

M - No worries....I think sometimes the board over time make the LBS feel that it is not ok to take your spouse back. I know no one comes out and says it but it sometimes is assumed as we tend make the WAW into a villain.

So don't be ashamed to admit that you still love your W and want to recon with her. I am D but I don't carry it around like a badge of honor

I also hope she has not gone off the rails. You will have clarity in time

J - Yeah for sure it can feel like taking back your spouse is not the right move based on the tenor of the board. After reflecting for a while, I believe i have the clarity on it, but I just need to time it correctly. I have a few immediate things I need to take care of and once I can get that settled, D is on the menu.

Saw W today briefly. Afterwards she sends me some texts about and we're discussing an issue back and forth, which was fairly straight forward and calm. In the middle of it, she throws in a massive temp check lol. I've got so experienced with this stuff now that it was like water off the back of a duck. It didn't need responding to and I just kept with the issue at hand and stayed pleasant.

It's easy to see she's not worked through her issues. Being on this side knowing how much effort and time it's taken me to work through things and still putting in good effort to get to the other side, I know this is such a long game that exceeds my timeline. So, I have clarity about it now. Yeh, I still love her and did have hopes of recon alive, even if very dim - that was hard to admit but now once I got past that, it's much more clear.

So, the stuff I want to get sorted out should be by Sept/Oct and then I can file for D. If she does it first, then the ball is rolling.

I have just come to such a more positive place in the last few weeks after doing deep introspection work, that it's all suddenly clicked in place mentally for me. So, I am just going to let that sit and make sure it's consistent, and then make a move.

Maika, just out of curiosity, what was the nature of the temp check?

That's a big achievement to feel like everything clicked in place mentally. It's still wise that you're saving divorce as the last and final option. Letting all this time pass, and even letting a little more time pass after you know what you need to do, is something I'm sure you'll never regret. You waited a long time and it sounds like you could probably easily start dating again but you're taking all the right precautions to do everything in order. It takes a lot of patience and discipline to avoid filing for divorce quickly or trying to take shortcuts just to get out from the pain of your wife leaving.

M, you are an experienced jedi master. I feel the force in you...

Nicole - she mentioned to me that she knows that she would be the last person that I would call on for help on anything. It was sandwiched in the middle of discussing a specific issue. I thought about it being an opportunity to validate maybe, but decided that there was nothing to validate. Me responding to it would have opened up a bunch of R issues that I am not going to entertain. I want her to come at me directly rather than using these side steps if she wants to talk about it. So, I kept the convo pleasant and straight forward. She again texted me about something today, which made me chuckle because I have already told her that what she's doing is none of my business unless it affects the kids. I don't care if she is dating or not and what kinda relationship she has with other men - whether friendships or something else. She went out of her way to clarify and it wasn't needed. I am not reading anything into it except maybe she wanted me to know something clearly. Words don't matter to me. Action does. So, until I see some action, this is all riff raff.

About things clicking in place mentally, what I understood is that I was trying to do two things simultaneously and prioritize the wrong thing over the other. I was trying to 'struggle for clarity' and 'struggle for action' at the same time, and I prioritized the latter. What I realized is that unless I have clarity, and know the answers to the why questions deeply, the struggle for action will continue as a struggle because I don't have a deep rooted understanding of why I am able or unable to do it. And that clarity is about deep seated beliefs and trauma and self-narratives. There are always surface reasons why you want to do something, and they are good reasons, but they are not enough to sustain action. Only when deep rooted why's area answered can you flourish in action because you've done the emotional work. For example, my whole thing about the victim narrative in this thread - it blocked me from flourishing in action, no matter how good my reasons were to do it. Only when I identified the root causes, I am able to work through them and make the lasting changes.

And so when I say it clicked mentally and emotionally, it was through a long process of self-introspection, journaling, meditation, and questioning my story that I told myself about who I am. When this happens, your surface reasons are like bonuses that you get in life - better health, better relationships etc. And now because I've fundamentally rooted out the problems and the why's, I don't even need the surface reasons to engage and flourish in action. I already know that I can be a success and victimhood will not define me and my story moving forward.

I hope that makes sense. Sometimes it does in my head but I am not sure if I am explaining it well. This process also allowed me to really come to a better place of detachment and shedding co-dependency because I went from believing the story about myself, to actually trusting it. That chasm between belief and trust is such an important process and once you navigate it, it's like a whole new world has opened up. I trust my talents and my values and virtues, and no longer believe that I am this person and that person. I know I am fully.

The D at this point is inconsequential to me. I've come to a place where that is going to be a fact in my story rather than something that holds me down or back. So, when you take all the power away from the D and give it a new meaning, there is no reason to fear it or accelerate it. In my heart, I am already D'd. The last year has been living as if I've already gotten a D. So, if I made it through the 12 months, the rest of my life is going to be fine. I don't need her any more. I may want her, but not the past 'her'. Just like she wouldn't want the past 'me'. And I am no longer that man. And if I am no longer that man, then I cannot accept her without her going through growth and accountability. This 'me' wouldn't last in that R for a week. That certainty is so freeing.

Nef - haha! that's quite gracious of you. I honestly do feel like I have the force in me now. The last few weeks have been brilliant. My injuries sidelined me from working out and climbing, and so I had to sit with myself and figure this out. I was also desperate and hungry towards my self-actualization goals and once all the external stuff was put on pause, I gave myself the permission to follow through on that path. It's paid massive dividends. I honestly feel like a new man right now.

You deserve the best man.

(((M)))

Good job M.....you are correct the D word should have no power over you at this point. To me there is more power not fighting it, more power in walking away, more power in letting her take her journey....to me that is power. Power is showing them that their words and actions have no influence on you at all. That is power.

You do what you want to do when you want to do it and don't let anyone else tell you differently.

To quote "LH".......keep on keeping on!

For me personally...

I think there is a massive issue with how people view themselves.

(Themselves) - being the I or me.

This mental self image is constructed from birth and is a massive mash up of thoughts and experiences that shape how we interpret the world. We have individual traits of course, but we become very much a product of our environment and tend to fall into roles that define us - such as husband, provider, dad, wife, etc..

With this role comes responsibilities that society dictates to us via media and other formats - so we do the best job we can to fit into this (I am nice/normal) lifestyle where you do the things that you think other people would expect of you.

When you are married, it confirms this (fitting in) might actually be working - otherwise why would someone marry you otherwise? So things go well until one of you has a moment, it may be meeting someone else, or it maybe something like a death - that shakes them to their core and they snap out of this role and they are reborn mentally. Totally present.

They then dont want to be with you because their true self never wanted you in the first place, their nice person mask/lifestyle did.

This realisation you are having is more a realisation that you are more than a role. You are an intelligent man with options. So you feel confident and rightly so.

Dont mix (i still love her) feelings with comfort/familiarity feelings - its eeerily similar and easy to feel like (I still lover her mannnn!) when in reality you are missing the comfort and safety of the situation.

I like your introspection - however alot of introspection suggests you dont trust yourself that much. Just be and let whatever happen just happen. Just react to whatever situation as you see fit and stand by that decision. There is no such thing as perfection so dont try to hard to reach it pal.

Maika- Thank you so much for sharing your story. Your trials, your tribulations, your successes and failures- these life lessons that you share will all help us navigate these turbulent waters ahead. For you staying around and giving us hope and wisdom. It is truly appreciated. Good luck on the rest of your journey!

Nef - massive hugs back to ya too!!

J - taking all that power back is so liberating. You're right about what LH says, and I love his tag line about not chasing people and being yourself. The right people in your life will come and stay.

Benni - Totally agree. You nailed it about the shaping of identity and how you are more than your role. Yes, I have been cognizant about getting stuck in the analysis and introspective phase. I found and opened pandora's box finally and I needed to see that process through. I've come out on the other side and the introspective phase is over. I found the answers that I was looking for and now it's just action, which has come surprisingly easy once I got to the bottom of the dark ocean. Now I am on my way back up and can see the light peering from the surface of the water. I am not religious, but this almost feels like an adult baptism with some preacher dipping my head in the water and bringing me back to myself.

LW - Appreciate the kind words. This community saved my life. I am doing what I can to pay it forward and if something in my story resonates with even one person to make the necessary shifts in their life, I would've been glad to be of service to them. Good luck on your journey as well!

Maika,

You are definitely valued around here, and you have certainly paid it forward and then some. I know that I wouldn't be in as (relatively) good shape as I am if not for your advice and perspective. Thank you for your contributions, both to me personally and to the community. You are never done your journey as long as you are still breathing, but you have found your strength and emerged from the maelstrom as a warrior.

What Benito said resonates with me, and reminds me of something you wrote to me earlier on - ultimately a lot of this comes down to actions and putting principles into practice. There is great value in knowledge, especially self-knowledge, but ultimately what matters is acting on it. I can read other people's stories, I can devour books on self-esteem and reframing mindsets, I can realize the codependency traits that have hurt my relationships, but none of that really matters unless I actually start shifting my behavior, my actions, my thoughts in a way that reflects this new knowledge.

Whatever happens from here forward, you are in charge of your life, and that is what matters.

suerte,

Davide - appreciate the kind words. I know your journey has been up and down and I am following it even if I don't always comment.

You said it perfectly - putting principles into action through practice. Knowledge is valuable, but without practice it's just all an intellectual exercise which gets you nowhere in terms of reaching your goals and achieving more in life.

As I have mentioned in my threads, BD was one more traumatic experience in my life to add to many others that stem from childhood. So I knew that I had to deal with everything not just BD. What I found was that despite my best intentions and making processes and paths for myself for all the actions I wanted to take, my implementation was quite uneven and much less satisfactory than what I wanted. I looked at all variables and realized that I needed to figure out emotionally what was going on and excavate the root causes.

So, that process led to many self-discoveries and I read and thought about things a lot and questioned everything for the past few weeks. And that brought me to a place of clarity that I hadn't come before. So now, the actions are not difficult to implement because the underlying emotions that were the impediments are being healed.

Yeh, action and knowledge are both necessary and they complement each other. I think I went the action route much harder than the knowledge route and there was this imbalance. I have brought it into more balance now and will keep at it.

Ultimately, the fruit is in the results. I feel lighter and positive and capable of going after what I want. I don't have the victim story controlling me any more. Just gotta keep moving forward and making sure not to slip up on action. More knowledge will always come through action and doing things. I went back to get to equilibrium and now there's no need to go back in the past. After just over a year, I am finally at a good starting point.

buena suerte a ti tambien. no te preocupes porque la vida es maravillosa.

Small update:

So a few things have happened in the last 2 weeks which indicate that W is lowering the drawbridge from the moat and peeking her head out. Now, there are three reasons why that might have been happening:

1. She is having doubts about the S
2. She is throwing crumbs again
3. She is wanting me to acquiesce to what she wants to happen and is saying things to get my defenses down

I have absolutely no idea right now which one of the above is true. However, I am not a new kid on the block and I acutely remember how it felt to be thrown aside like trash. Now that her fancy uni life is over and her new besties have gone back to their lives, is this giving her a new dose of reality check and wants to come back for some cake-eating? I dunno. But I also am no fool when it comes to cake-eating.

I don't want to get into more details about specifics, but lets see. I am hanging back with no expectations and doing and saying things that I feel are genuine and authentic.

The next few weeks will shed some more light on this. In the meantime, I am continuing to be awesome and moving forward in my journey. I have my guard up on high alert and will sniff out any bull$hit as soon as I see it.

Will keep y'all posted.

Maika,

You are so much stronger now. So long as you are working from that position of strength you can't fail.

Much luck.

I want to know the details...not fair!!!

In all seriousness, this sounds somewhat good, but time will tell. I like your confidence.

Hey M, you are an experienced DBuster master now. You are not piece of cake...;)

Davide - definitely. I do everything from a position of strength now. I also follow my heart and what feels authentic and real to me. I will not put up a show or pretend or go along with a charade.

Nef - haha! yeh true. I am tried and tested DB'er. With the level of crumbs she had left my way last year, there is no way I will allow that again. If I agree to do anything, it will be on terms that I like and with a DB mindset.

Overrnbw - haha! yeh, everyone wants to know the details. To be honest, the details are not that interesting or important. It has been a string of small things that W has done that has me on alert now. Making some gestures here and there and an invite to something, which got my spidey senses up. Nothing of this sort has happened in a year now and so it to come on suddenly, even in small measures that indicate a pattern, has gotten my attention.

As I said, this could mean nothing really. I am not engaging in mind-reading and that's why I said that there could be a few options of what this might mean. But it's not significant for me to engage in anything with her or dwell on figuring out the answer. It's just a change in some events that haven't happened in a year.

So, my aim is to just observe and evaluate. The answer will materialize itself based on her actions. Nothing has changed for me in terms of my goals and approach to life.

I'll keep everyone posted.

Keep your guard up M....my XW has established a pattern of being nice to me before she drops a bomb on me. We went out to breakfast on Saturday together as a family and yesterday she called me on the phone and apologized over an over again for a scheduling mistake with my youngest dr appointment. Then she sends me an email reminder about the appointment.

Needless to say I am on guard for her to tell me either BF is moving in with her or she is getting married

For sure J. She messaged me couple of weeks back about discussing some things - not R related, but still important topics where she'll need my cooperation. I am totally down to discussing those things, but I am not going to roll over for her. I didn't say that to her but I told her I am more than happy to sit down and discuss those items later in the month when I have some free time.

A week after that message, she's made some gestures that she hasn't in a year. So, spidey senses are up. I hate this doing nice things before dropping a bomb - it's just so manipulative and passive aggressive and weak. Just say it up front. It's like they want to build up good will or tit for tat kinda stuff - i did some nice things for you so now you do something for me; or you can really be mad at me about this.

It's just juvenile and I have no time for it. So, regardless of whatever happens in the interim, I know what my priorities and needs are and when we sit down to discuss things, I am not going to just cave in. That's the old me from last year, but not anymore.

My guard is definitely up and I will sniff out the bull$hit.

Hey dude...I agree it took me a minute to figure out what my XW was doing and G was the one that actually pointed it out to me. Today I get a text message from her with a picture of my oldest and her best friend and the X tells me she feels bad that they didn't get the same teacher and she feels bad. Whatever

Harmless stuff but "yes"....I am just waiting for it!

Get those batteries charged up on the detector!

Maybe you will have more interaction with her now that school is starting.

Yeah. putting down some feather pillows to soften the landing. It's actually laughable because we can see through it. I don't even know if W is doing this consciously or if this is just her continuing her passive ways of dealing with situations that will certainly have some conflict in it, or deliver news that is kinda $hitty.

The interaction can't be avoided as you know with 2 little kids, but I can definitely spot crappy behavior and not have to put up with it. I hope I am wrong, but I feel like this is what's going on in her head - 'if I create some family time or do a couple of nice things for him, then it will be hard for him to put up resistance when I talk to him about x issue and what I want to happen'. For me it's like those things are completely separate. I won't tolerate 'covert contracts' and typically what NGS folks do - buy agreement and acceptance through niceness, rather than doing kind things for their own sake.

Time will tell what's happening truly. I got a bit caught by surprise by this change in status quo, but I was able to compose myself pretty quickly and not overthink it or start the mindreading games. Let's see what she really wants. I have left a path for her, but I most certainly won't make it easy. She will have to confront her demons for me to really believe that she's got it in her to make the changes.

Lol.....yeah I am to the point now when my x tries to correct me on something or tries to assume her former role I just shoot her a look and she stops immediately. She knows there is no more control over me. How r ur kids doing?

Hey M, gut feeling is natural and so you take it. But beware if you are using those second hand five leg cat detectors...they are fueled by mindreading and are a no go...then you know the way out: detach and GAL. Dark side of the force is powerful but you know you are a good DB master.

J - Kids are doing better. I am just much more aware of making time together high quality and doing things with them. I feel like they've resigned to this reality and that kinda breaks my heart. My older one is much more sensitive and emotional and has his ups and downs. But generally, I keep it pretty upbeat and positive for them and now that I am much more emotionally stable, they can sense that and feed off from me. But, how this will affect them in the long run is still an unwritten chapter.

Nef - yeh, I trust my gut instincts and feelings. Also, I am not impulsive anymore and will take time to think and feel through things. The dark side is always there lingering, but I know how to keep it at bay. With this in the mix, I am upping my GAL a bit more and making sure I am not getting too comfortable thinking that I am all good to handle everything. I know some curve balls are coming my way and I am keeping myself prepared.

It definitely is an adjustment for everyone. My oldest is struggling more as well with this and I actually saw my X get emotionally over her last week. The first time I have seen my X break down in quite some time and I assume it has to do with her guilt. Our youngest is seemingly unaffected and really hasn't skipped a beat. The X and I only live 4 miles from each other so I am going to talk to her about changing it up from a week on week off to more of a 2-3-2 as I think our oldest needs to see her mother more often. It might help with my dating life as well since I won't be completely shut down during the week I have the girls.

Maika, I'm not surprised to hear there are some changes in your wife or that she's reaching out because she must have been thinking a lot over this past year too. It's hard to know what to think without knowing more, but this sounds like a good time to see what she wants since you're already considering divorce so this could either seal-the-deal or it could be the start of a slow journey towards considering whether this could ever be fixed. I hope you'll keep us posted. What you describe sounds a bit like what's happening with my husband - after almost a year he's been getting steadily nicer but it's hard to know the intentions of these spouses who walk away as if we're nothing to them.

Hey Nicole! Yeh, it's very hard to know what's actually going on with her when I have so few data points. The pattern is just different compared to the past 12 months in her behavior and so that's why I have my guard up. Her actions were not major in any significant way, but just a string of them over a week that made me take a step back and think about it. Not sure if she's going to IC and they are suggesting a different approach, or this is just a manipulative move on her part because we need to have a convo about some things that have some conflict associated with it.

But it's also been a bit hot and cold. One day she was nice and the next day barely said anything to me, and then she was nice. Not really sure what to make of it and I am not wasting my energy trying to dissect something that has no conclusive answer. I'll just go along and see how things unfold. I'll have a decent idea in the next few weeks probably.

As the LBS, it's hard not to be cynical about their niceness - like they're doing it because they want something from us. I have a feeling that my hunch about that is right, but let's see.

Based on the convo we need to have, I'll have a good idea of how to proceed about D. I am already looking into different options and have some lawyer friends that I need to chat with. There is an amicable process that can keep things out of court, except getting the final D decree. So, I'd much prefer to pursue that but I need to find out more about it.

Hope things are good with you and your daughter is doing well. I am around, but just not as much. I will definitely post what happens in my sitch and not leave anyone hanging after this long saga of events.

Put down an application to rent an apartment today. It's a lot smaller than where I am at, but that doesn't bother me. I was just in a bit of a mood today because of it. Had to move real fast with the application because the apartments at this location get picked up pretty fast. I won't find out if I got it until next week, but I am first in line for the applications and so hopefully it works out.

The main reason I wanted to move to this neighborhood is because it's in my kids school zone and I wanted to make sure that kids would stay at the same school. I just wanted to do it for my peace of mind because W could up and move or decide something else. I don't think she would do it without talking to me, but I just needed this not to be a stress factor for me. So, I am pretty relieved that I can at least control this aspect of my kids future for now.

I think I was in a mood today because it feels like going back to square one. After living in such apartments and switching for many years, we finally had a place that was everything we would've wanted - to moving back into an apartment within the span of 22 months is just unbelievable. Never thought I'd be back here.

Kids were upset by the potential for this change, but we talked about it and I will make this place exciting and fun and home for them. The place I am at has been good as an in-between place, but it's been killing my budget in rent. The new place is much cheaper and so I can get back on track on finances, pay down debt, and start saving. It's going to take some time, but it's not a far off future where I will start having good savings.

After being bummed out for a while, I am okay now. This new place is a ticket to financial freedom and starting over. I am looking at it as a fresh start and the opportunity for a do-over. I am also looking forward to crushing it in other areas of life. Boss has promised a better financial package and benefits by the end of this year, and so I know that things are on an upswing. My limbs are healing well and so should be able to start working out and climbing by mid to late September. I can't wait to get back to strength training and going to my zen place with climbing.

I am still very grateful that I do have more than enough resources for food, decent shelter, and some luxuries in life. I have some good people in my life and I have a vision for my life. It's just going to take some time and I have to grind it out and keep learning from the struggles.

M.....no shame living in an apt......I almost did it myself as I get tired of maintaining the house. I like the idea of being in the same school zone as the kids......keep moving!

Yeh for sure J. It just felt like going massively backwards in life. But sometimes you have to take 2 steps backwards and recalibrate to move forward. The school zone was the main issue and I had limited choices to choose from in the neighborhood. So, I am relieved that this issue will be a non-issue soon. Moving forward is the motto for real. It will be good to get out of my current place and start a fresh chapter. This was my DB house lol. Now, next phase activated.

Good to hear Maika. Fresh chapters are super helpful, and being able to save and take care of yourself financially is important. I know it might feel crappy, but you are doing right by your kids and taking care of yourself financially.

Thanks Davide. Yeh, it's most definitely the right decision for now and the long term. I was initially quite excited about the prospect of doing this, but when I actually did it today, I felt quite bummed out. So, I just had to give my feelings their voice and let myself feel crappy. It didn't last very long, but I didn't want to dismiss how I felt - which is how I've dealt with my emotions in the past to not so great effect. I tried to be present and get through it.

Kids are of course not happy with any change that might come their way, and I don't blame them for feeling that way with what they've gone through. I am aiming to create a 'home' for them with them and keep the foundation of love strong.

Hey M...be proud of what you are man, you are the lighthouse.

Here we go... another one that makes me tear...just like J9, sh!t sh!t sh!t.

Shame on you man!

Man Nef......you haven't cried in a long time

Get back to your microscope.

M - I like how you framed it from a transition standpoint. Your current place is all about DB and your new place is about your future. I love your optimism.

Yeah...I�m there J9, I�m there.

Nice words for M, J9... shame on both of you.

Back to the mic...

Maika, just as we were supposed to move into our dream house last summer I ended up in a shabby apartment, displaced and back to where I was 20 years ago in college with barely any furniture overlooking a parking lot. I can totally relate to the dismay at moving back into an apartment but your plan sounds wise and hopefully it's temporary. Keep us posted on your developments!

I understand the feeling Maika. I had to do the same. It's been hard this summer with all the heat, no AC and balcony towards south. But there are definite upsides too. I dont have to plow the snow, no gardening, no grass cutting... Cheaper too. I think at some level I prefer apartments but I'd like to have a garage for projects.

It'll be a phase in your life and it really doesn't have to be that bad

Nef - I am proud to join the list of folks who have moved you to tears. I feel that you have such a fantastic level of empathy and that your journey has truly shaken you to the core and made you a better person. I've had my moments of heartfelt empathy for some folks here and it has made me grow so much more.

J - yeh, I had to figure out a better meaning for this rather than looking at the negative. And the positives are there for sure and it's not like I am deluding myself. The future is bring and I feel so much more centered now to go after everything. The injuries were a blessing in disguise and made me slow down and reflect on everything - which has lead to some astonishing insights and made the path forward for myself so much more clear.

Nicole - I thought of you right away as I was going through this. I remember reading about how it was for you when you were stuck in that apartment and your health was not great. Knowing that you came out of it, I know I can do it as well. Success from other folks here is so inspiring and I make sure to remind myself that this is not only possible, but greatness awaits.

LC - Yeah, definitely lots of pluses with this move. It's a much smaller space so kids will have to get used to it, but when you create a loving home, kids don't care. Everything else is just secondary. Kids are excited about getting a bunk bed and we'll organize their room together and so they have ownership of the place.

W is unnerved that I am moving right next to her basically. Sent me some texts as if this decision was supposedly something I should've consulted her about - ridiculous. I was tempted to be curt, but I kept it cordial and let her know why I was planning the move. I am just amazed that she thinks she has a say in this or that I should've talked to her about it. I did let her know that I was looking so it shouldn't have been a surprise. Anyways, it annoyed me for a bit but now I am over it. I am doing what's best for me and the kids and i don't care if she agrees with it.

Things are generally good and hopefully I get the place. I'll know next week.

M I am surprised but not surprised. I think it just shows the level of selfishness. Keep on doing u!

She framed it in a way to suggest that I was only moving to keep tabs on her as I was going to be so close to where she lives. I really wanted to send a LOL text, but I didn't. It's just ridiculous and absurd and I have no idea what the hell she's thinking about anything. The only thing it shows me is that she's not grown a bit and that her issues of anxiety and paranoia are well and alive. This is just getting too unattractive at this point, more so than before. I couldn't care less if she was banging some dude right in her backyard for me to see.

I'm going to move forward with the D. There is a very collaborative way we can do it that doesn't involve the court to get the mediation and legal stuff around custody, access, and assets done. No assets to split so just custody and access to deal with, which should be straightforward hopefully. I just have to get some finances in order to do it cuz I don't know how much it's going to cost. I am making some phone calls next week to this law firm to find out so I have an idea of what I should expect in terms of cost. This approach can take care of everything, but the final D has to be decreed by the court - which shouldn't be a problem once we've sorted out the rest.

So, my goal is to get this new place and then put some money aside for the D process. I just need this to be done with at this point. I don't think she's the right person for me at this point in time and what I need from her to get there is something she's not going to do. There's no point in prolonging this. I feel good about myself and all my choices and I am ready to move on.

Realistically, I'll probably start something by the end of this year or January at the latest. It's time.

Well M you should have clarity by now but I know it is scary. We did something similar and the x and I negotiated everything which IMO is important to be on good terms. Just know you will be more than fine. It will be renenforced even more when you start interacting with other ladies. Truthfully I would be shocked if she was not dating someone but since she is not pushing hard for D my guess is that it is not serious.

I've had clarity for a while, but it's been muddied at times and so I've not been sure if I was totally certain about D. This one interaction isn't pushing me over the edge, but it's just a pattern of behavior on her part that shows to me that she's not done any serious growth pertaining to her issues. Not that I have run out of patience, but more so that I am getting increasingly ready to move on. Life hasn't been in limbo, but I certainly need to push it more and be more selfish about what I want and then get it done and work hard.

I've been operating with the idea that she's been dating since separation. She had admitted to me she'd been on some dates around BD - even though it was only over coffee as that minimizes things. Once we separated and I went NC and dark on her, I am sure she's probably been more active on the dating scene. I feel like she did what your W did and just kept it on the low low. I am fully expecting that she's done that and that there might be some dudes who she's slinging.

But, whatever she's doing is really none of my concern right now. I have no interest in dating her or pursuing anything as things stand and as she is right now. I have no attraction towards her at this point. I think she's not pushed for D so far is because she's got high levels of anxiety and problems with follow through. Just like most things, I'll have to push and get it done - which at this point I am cool with.

Inaction on her part is still action and I am not going to put up with it.

I just got a message from a friend today to hang out and that his W was inviting some single ladies over and it would be fun. Unfortunately I had a few things to take care of and so I couldn't take up the offer. But next time I will for sure. I just need to be in more social situations and meet people. It's happening soon.

You know M, my inner journey made me discover my identity. I�m stronger now and I don�t feel the need of being accepted, I have learnt to say No when I have to. That was not an easy thing for me. Just moving forward like all of us should do.

Sending you a big Hug an lots of possitve energy now M!

I totally relate to that Nef. That inner journey is hard work and can cause pain, but the positive results are undeniable. I don't feel the need to be accepted; I don't minimize my needs; I don't avoid conflict now; and I have let go of my unhealthy controlling habits. My stress levels are down; I feel more centered; and I am optimistic about my future.

Sending you a hug as well and positive vibes. We keep on sprinting forward with intention and love.

Got some good news today - I got the apartment that I had put an application for. It was such a relief to get the call and hear that it was approved. This will help me move things in the right direction for sure. Kids are really stoked about it too and they're excited to move to the new place.

Nothing new on the W front after what seemed like she was peeking out the castle doors. No surprise there really. I called some lawyers as well to move ahead with a collaborative mediation approach and they gave me some good info that I can square away for now. Looking forward to the move, settling things in, and then starting the D in early 2019.

Things are good. Moving forward one solid step at a time.

Maika, congratulations on the apartment! That's a relief. I bet you'll hear more from your wife when divorce proceedings begin. If she's having any second thoughts then she should speak up when you tell her it's time to file. That's nice you have a plan in place. That helps to remove some of the uncertainty that everyone inevitably feels when their entire world changes.

Great M, great!

Moving forward!

Congrats on the apartment Maika! Making a new space a home is always an opportunity for a fresh start, and that is a great feeling.

I would be interested on hearing more (obviously not details) about the collaborative mediation approach to D. I have no intention of doing a traditional adversarial lawyer approach, and without kids my sitch should be relatively straightforward.

Stay in touch.

Very cool M.......my XW and I sat down at the kitchen table and came up with our D settlement. We then hired 1 Lawyer to write up the paperwork, she did not represent either of us. The total cost for us was $1000......$750 for the L and $250 to file with the county.

Nicole - Thanks. Yes, she hasn't spoken up so far and so the D proceedings will be the last chance. I haven't acted like Plan B for her, but the further this goes on, I feel like she's thinking that I am still waiting on her. I know it's mind reading, but it $ucks to feel like someone thinks they can just fall into you as a safety net. The D is now for me and to move on. I'll keep the board posted. Y'all deserve to know what happens after all this.

Nef - yes, moving forward and it feels great.

Davide - Yeh, the new space will be a fresh new start that I am looking forward to. About the collaborative divorce and mediation approach, it is something that is available in my jurisdiction. I think it's fairly new. I am not in the US and so I don't know if anything like that is available. The main gist is - you agree to keep everything out of the court and settle matters through a collaborative team that includes lawyers, and other specialists if needed. The final D application has to be put through the court, but that's when everything has already been settled and you're just looking for the official D paperwork. It seems like the route to go. I expect some challenges, but with this approach, we can figure out a solution without having the court deciding it.

J - Yeah, that's basically the kinda dollar amount I am looking at. Will be slightly higher as we'll have to get some things sorted out in terms of custody. How did you handle the custody issue if one parent wants to leave town for another job? What would happen in your case if that was something you or W wanted to do? This is probably the biggest sticking point I think that I'll have to face.

M.....we restricted the kids to their school district. The x and I can move wherever but the kids have to stay so if one parent wants to move away they essentially give up the rights.

oh wow! Thanks J. Yeh, I'll have to figure this out because W will most likely want to move out of town and I don't want to do that. Also moving kids out of town to a new school district would not be in their best interests. They love this school and community, and it is also the best school the kids have been so far. I don't want them to lose that. I think just because of this we'll have to go through a mediation process to come up with a solution. At least I am going to be in the kids school district soon and so that will keep the school secure for them.

Maika, how are you my man? Long time no exchange. I have been following you (and Joseph) from time to time to see if anything new arises. I always thought you and him (and perhaps Gordie over at MLC) might one day find yourself with a WAS that wanted to R. You're still doing it textbook as far as I can tell.

I wanted some advice. No change in my sitch, still separated after over 2 years but for the first time, starting about 2 months ago, I changed my approach and just started being nicer (in part because our litigation ended, which lasted probably 1.5 of those first two years). No real expectations and probably almost fully detached at this stage (although still physically attracted to her), but she is now starting to open up bit, communicating more, mainly by text, and we have even hung out a few times with the kids on weekends. Nothing huge, she is being cautious it seems, 2 steps forward, 1 step back kind of thing. But not all business either.

My question is whether I accept an invite to her place for S4's birthday party? We have to this point done separate birthday parties for the kids. Other factor to consider is that most of her family will be there and I haven't kept in touch with them since we separated (we were never married, just common law). Like you there was no affair or anything that drove us apart, just the usual complaints about inattentiveness.

Anyway, not sure if cake-eating even applies after 2+ years but wanted ur take on things. Does it count as pursuing if she extends the invite? Probably not, but it wouldn't likely have been offered had I not changed course which could be viewed as pursuing, and I'm aware that the vets on here would say you can't nice them back, or maybe that really only applies to WW, not WAS. Not sure. I'm not hooked up with anyone new, but have dated (she's probably aware of that) and I heard she was seeing someone but it didn't work, out and not sure if she is currently dating someone.

I think she knows I would probably give it another try, especially for the kids, who are still very young, and for financial reasons as well, so don't want to seem too eager by accepting her first invite since things have improved, it may confirm any thoughts she may have that I am always available to R if she was to suggest some form of piecing.

Or maybe it's just an invite to D4's bday party and nothing more (overthinking it), but with her family (and good friend) there, she would be left having to explain my sudden appearance. I have worked on improving myself over the past year or so but hard to know what, if anything, that means in this new dynamic.

S - My X and I still do joint birthday parties with the kids. If you can handle it emotionally my 10 cents would be to go as it would also be great for the kids!

Hey Slater! Good to hear from you. Yeh, I am still doing textbook DB but I might change things up a bit. I am still thinking about it. It goes back to our convo about swallowing the pride and just doing things without expectations. I am mulling it over.

I do agree with J about the party. I don't think it's pursuing if she invites you. However, with her 'good friend' being there, I am assuming you're talking about someone she dated. That gives me a bit of a pause.

But, I think here are some questions that I'd answer to make my decision:

1. Can I do this without any expectations?
2. Am I going to be comfortable in this setting?
3. Can I be myself?

I get along great with my in-laws and so if I was in your shoes, I would accept. But I don't think I can do it if someone she has dated is going to be there. That wouldn't be cool with me. That's where I am at right now. But with that variable in, if your answer to question no. 2 is 'yes', then do it.

It's always a win for the kids in this situation, but your son is 4 and won't likely remember this. You can always re visit this next year and see how you feel if you're not feeling 100% about it this year.

At this point, it doesn't sound like cake-eating. It's been 2 years. As long as you're not trying to nice her back and have a hidden agenda or expectation, then you should be fine. I generally see cake-eating happening in the early parts after BD and can continue if the LBS doesn't have good boundaries.

Come back and let us know what you decide and other details if you do decide to go.

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback from two model DB'ers!

No, the good friend is just that, one of her best friends from work, married with young kids (a female), so no issues there. I can assure you that if it were something different she would not have extended the invite or at the very least given me a heads-up.

I too will mull it over and let you know what I decide.

Sorry for hijacking ur thread Maika. Yes, the new approach and swallowing some pride by reaching out, being nice, suggesting things isn't really pure DB'ing but underlying all of that is doing what works and if after a year or two there has been no movement, a new tact is indicated. One has to be careful though not to extend it to far (beyond things that involve the kids) unless you are certain there is no OM in the picture, otherwise you look can look foolish if she is on a different page.

Hi Maika, just caught up on your updates. Put all the effort and energy into making the new apartment a paradise for the kids. Let them help you decorate it the way they would want to and make it their own. Mediation is an inexpensive way to D. Let me ask you this though, only because I know you have attained mental clarity in this whole process. You never wanted the D, she moved out and broke the home so why do you want to proceed now? Is it because you are ready to move on with another partner? Dating while still married is against what I believe in, and it is very valid to want a partner after such a long time especially if your W is with someone else. Other than that are you tired of the uncertainty and the limbo? Do you feel legally ending it will give everyone the closure they deserve? Why not leave her to proceed with this?

Slater:

About the good friend - got it! Well, then that's really a non-issue. Yes, after a while and with enough observation, a new approach has to be taken for sure. With the specifics of our sitch's, I agree that it has to be something that centers around the kids. Kids are happy and it gives you enough buffer to not have to constantly engage with the other person and have to force any conversations or just be awkward. You can spend time doing stuff with the kids and other people around. Also approach it with the mindset that this is truly for the kids and that you're walking out after the event like nothing has changed. That's why I said it has to feel natural and something you're comfortable doing. Whatever happens, it doesn't matter because you're still waking up the next day living your new life.

Yeh, if there is an OM in the picture, then it's just out of the question really. You're looking foolish and she loses more respect for you. I also strongly believe that if the LBS is going to dip their toes outside, then they have to do it with equal reciprocation with the other person making the first move. So, if she invites you to something with the kids, then you can do the same at a later date. Keep it on the same level as her. This way it's not pursuit, and you're also not walking into a potentially awkward situation. But she has to make the first move, otherwise it's still just a lower degree of pursuit.

After mulling all of this over, and having the same types of questions and thoughts as you are having, I decided that I'll reciprocate and see. She had offered for me to join for something with the kids but I couldn't go. In return, I offered the same and we'll see. I don't know why she made the invite. I could spend time thinking about various possibilities, but unless I ask her point blank, I won't know. And I am not asking her - it simply doesn't matter at this point. All that matters is if it is something that I could engage in without expectations and be myself - which I can.

Arshi:

Thanks for the new apartment wishes! Yes, I am looking forward to making it a great home for the kids. They are excited so that helps.

You are right that I didn't want the D. My changed stance on it is due to a few different reasons: 1) I know what I will need from her to rebuild the marriage - they are not unreasonable things, but knowing her well, I have very high doubts that she would put the work in herself and the marriage; 2) I don't see any sign that she wants to even have a discussion on a potential reconciliation, let alone what that process would entail; 3) If for some miraculous reason (and I truly hope she gets help), she does decide to seek professional help to address her issues, the timeline for that is very long from the point she starts therapy; 4) But, even before the starting therapy, the timeline for her to come to that decision is also very long as she has high anxiety issues - I haven't seen a change in that from her physical manifestations of that anxiety; 5) Let's say all this happens and we get into MC - I have high doubts that I will be able to get past her EA and some casual dating, and I am sure more stuff that I am not privy to right now. Due to traumatic events in my life, I have a very hard time letting someone in, and if they abandon or betray me, I almost always shut the door on them outside of being civil and polite; 6) I am not in limbo and I am moving forward with my life, but I am at a place now where I am actually excited to meet new women and find love - this means that I don't have the patience to wait for extended number of years on some highly improbable variables coming true; 7) I also want someone who is deserving of me and vice versa and I don't want a half-a$$ partnership anymore - and unless W is all in and ready to go through struggles personally and with me, that's what I would end up with which is unacceptable to me now; 8) I want to bring a conclusion to this set of events and if that means that I have to take the lead on it, then I will - to ensure that my rights as a parent are protected and that I can have full closure on the marriage and relationship. I know the D is just symbolic at this point, but getting it done would provide an ending, whether or not it's something I wanted.

It's been past 12 months since the separation and she could've initiated the D proceedings over the last 2 months and she hasn't. With her anxiety issues, I am not sure if she can take the final step. I am sure guilt is probably playing into all of this as well. So, I will have to do it unless she brings it up in the next few months.

I am with you on dating while still legally married - I can't do it. That's why I haven't dated. I also didn't feel like it would be a constructive or positive thing for my growth and healing. I still have things I am working on for myself and I want to get to a emotionally stable place before I can dip my toes out in the dating world. I am quite content with myself and I don't feel lonely or wanting attention from someone else to make me feel good.

This was a long winded response, but if I missed something, let me know and I'll try and answer that for you.

Just sending you a big hug M. Have a nice weekend.

Nef - back at you as well! Hope you're having a great weekend as well. Big hugs!

Slater - forgot to add: don't worry about hijacking the thread. You didn't actually do that, and I am using my threads now to journal and just keep some convo going when things happen. Clearly at the end game stage now and so it's a free for all in my threads really.

So just a short update.

I reciprocated an invite to her and she tried to make it but had some work commitments that she couldn't get around. It at least sounded like she wanted to join and tried, but didn't work out. All good. Kids and I had a great time nonetheless. So, that makes us even. Let's see what happens. Everything is back in her court.

Slater

Are you going to update with a new thread

Popping in to just remind the newbies here to exercise 'patience' to the utmost - for your own recovery and how your WS/WAS is responding and acting towards you.

Had a few brief interactions with W lately and she is still full to the brim with her anger and judgment. I thought it had possibly subsided, but apparently it hasn't. At least I am in a good place where it just washed over me and didn't faze me much. At least good intel to see that she hasn't worked through her own $hit or even really begun to take responsibility and accountability of her actions. I have been as dark/NC as possible with kids and it still hasn't really cracked it for her - it has for me for sure, but it hasn't affected her anger and judgment towards me.

So newbies - this truly is a marathon. Stay focused on your growth and what you can control - which is only YOU!

Maika,

Thanks for the update, and I am glad to hear that you can receive that resentment with such equanimity. That is a sure sign of progress. Congrats. That is an inspiration for a lot of us. Patience and self-compassion are key skills to develop for all of us LBSs.

In terms of patience I know that you had talked about getting to a place where you feel confident in a decision to initiate D. Does her continued lack of growth make that decision any easier? As a newbie I struggle to see how it wouldn't be healthier for a LBS to move on completely and try to find a fulfilling life elsewhere without that toxicity. I fully acknowledge that it might just be my own lack of perspective showing through. It just seems like you have made so much progress on yourself while she is stagnating. Is the benefit of "standing" a question of morality - valuing the institution of marriage or the commitment you made so much?

What W does not know is that M is getting his DB Jedi skin. He becomes wiser with every second that goes by.

Thanks Davide! Yeah, I think that over time, as you better understand your emotional responses to a variety of things, you can figure out how to manage that and come out better. I remember reading here on someone's thread that really stuck with me, and it went something like this - let your values drive your reactions; don't let other people's actions determine your reactions.

That has helped me a lot.

About getting to deciding to initiate D - when I say 'patience' for that decision, it is not to see if the other person has made changes and has turned around. I mean that you've come to a place of equilibrium and stability for yourself that D is going to be a fact in your life, not something that determines who you are and your future. And that is the place of strength that action needs to come from. If it's from desperation or to get a reaction, it will most certainly backfire.

Yes, her continued lack of growth does make the decision easier. She gets unattractive to me every time I really interact with her. I don't want to be with someone who hasn't figured their $hit out. It won't ALL be figured out, but there has to be something to show for and a dedication to stay on that journey.

About the toxicity, the D isn't going to get you there. Going NC/dark will do almost about the same thing for toxicity. If you feel like the D is needed for mental and emotional closure, my hunch is that you will probably feel good that it's done with for a little bit of time. But then everything will creep back in - your insecurities, your depression, your loneliness etc. Unless you have actively worked on those things, the D won't solve what your true problems are. Just like the separation, the D is a distraction and running away from problems. If you want do D so that you can feel ethical in dating, then that's cool - I cosign that. But D won't help you with your problems.

There is a really fab thread on 'standing' somewhere here. I have bookmarked it on a different computer. I will try to find it and post it for anyone to read. I do think that 'standing' is such a personal decision, just like D. I can't advise anyone here to stand or go get a D. I don't know where you're truly at and only you can make that determination.

I believe I have detailed in this thread somewhere why I will be moving forward with the D in the next few months. And it's not because I gave up patience or stopped standing. I just took a long term view of the timeline if potentially things could turn around. And that timeline is very long and filled with too many variables. And there is not a single indication that she is interested in that. I also want to find love and have a partnership in the future, and I want to go out and explore the dating world. I won't do that until I have the D done because it will represent me truly coming out of the other side of the tunnel as a better person and having reached my short-term personal milestones in life.

I don't think you're showing lack of perspective. I think this is complex and everyone has to make their own determination. D or no D, the most consistent messaging I have heard from old-timers who pop by once in a while to share an update is this - they all wished that they had moved forward with their lives much earlier than they did and focused on themselves and their healing with more vigor; and the version of them now is far stronger and better than before.

My biggest take away from my experience is this - focus on becoming emotionally fit and take ownership and accountability and engage the struggle on a daily basis. There is no other way to come out on the other side without the struggle and pain. You can have the most wonderful family and community to support you, but at the end of the day, they cannot make you do anything. You have to do it. No savior is coming. The quicker people can get that and train their mindset, their life will change for the better without a doubt.

Haha! Thanks Nef. Yeh, over time you build that DB Jedi skin.

Saw W again today. Still kinda huffing and puffing lol. Now it's just amusing to me, but I let her do her thing. We didn't exchange many words. I talked to a close friend and she was telling me that W's reality is most likely slowly shattering and she's projecting all her anger on to me rather than actually take ownership and deal with it. Dunno if that's the case, but I don't care. My game plan is still the same - stay out of her line of fire and keep doing what I am doing, which has worked more than fine for me until now. She doesn't get to participate in my life decisions and if she wants to get all worked up about it, that's her deal not mine.

M,

If you get a chance I'd love to see that bookmarked post on "standing" if you can dig it up.

Thanks for the reminder D. Here it is: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1966340&page=1

Maika, my husband has been acting similar to your wife the past few days. He got frustrated and annoyed easily and just seems like he's angry with me despite the fact that I've changed in the past year. I think it's one of several things such as 1) they're not happy and seeing us reminds them of what they don't like about themselves, 2) they're angry with us for something we didn't do right in the past and they've been waiting for us to do or say something that we haven't yet done, 3) they still haven't grown or changed and this is one of their mood swings, or 4) they're generally unhappy with their situation and can't hide it in our presence. Who knows. Maybe it's also the guilt projected as anger or seeing us happier makes them feel worse. I wish there'd be some kind of translator we can use but I guess even better is to be like you and just not care or let it affect you.

Nicole - I think it's a mixture of few things for my W, but I didn't spend time dwelling on it. It's her problem, not mine. She thinks she can have a say in my life decisions, but that's now how a separation works. On top I think her world is not as rosy as she thought it was going to be. The main piece of intel for me was that she is still acting and reacting in the same ways as the past. She has not worked on any of it and grown. For me that's what matters and I have no time for nonsense people who suck my time and mind.

It did affect me but I didn't over analyze it or dwell on it much. I didn't let it ruin my day. And after reflection I know that I am making the right moves to improve my life and if she doesn't like it, that's on her. I am just amazed that she thinks that she has a say in my life and my ability to be a parent. In the moment I wanted to spew at her and just give it to her, but it would've been wasted and she would've made me react in a way that I don't want to anymore. So, I just kept myself composed. I did entertain it more than I should have and lesson learned for the next time.

I am more than okay to have a dialogue and genuine conversation about things that need collaboration. But I won't tolerate a bad attitude, tone, and pre-judgment of why I may have said or done something.

Just leave them to their own devices and get out of their line of fire. That's my strategy and it has worked well for my sanity.

Maika, there's an obvious disconnect between what your wife thinks she can say or do and what you're willing to accept. Hopefully as she realizes she's lost that control over your life decisions she'll at least think twice for a minute or two.

You're absolutely right about the disconnect. But, I am just really perplexed by how she doesn't get it. She started all of this and so I am just surprised that she thinks she can have a say in my life decisions. It just doesn't add up to me. Oh well, that's for her to figure out and for me to not worry about

I remember my XW making some comment to me about something while I was driving.......when she said I immediately shot her a look, she caught herself and said "I guess I don't have a say in that any more do I?".......I laughed and said "Oh no, those days are over with". Last night while at her BF's house she still referred to our family home as "our home", then caught herself and said "dad's place". It makes you wonder what is truly rolling around in their head.

We all should take our inner voyage. But it�s not clear when to start it. Mind plays misterious games...Time eventually will expose our fears and then we should face our destiny.

Originally Posted by Maika

You're absolutely right about the disconnect. But, I am just really perplexed by how she doesn't get it. She started all of this and so I am just surprised that she thinks she can have a say in my life decisions. It just doesn't add up to me. Oh well, that's for her to figure out and for me to not worry about

I've often said that one of the things that WASs are most disconcerted by is the loss of control over the LBS. Once the LBS truly detaches, and the WAS feels that loss of control, is usually when the come flying back toward the LBS in order to try to reestablish that control.

It is perplexing, and usually it is because they want that safety net, that Plan B firmly in place in case the Plan A falls through.

Yeh, that feels about right Steve. Also other fantasies are slowly crashing down for her so this just adds more fuel to the fire - I ain't around to provide partnership on these things to her.

J - yeah, I think I need to cultivate that look

Maybe I'll look at a few videos of Dwayne Johnson as 'The Rock' to get his eyebrow tilt.

Nef - bro, you my philosopher on the side-hustle. Keep those quotes rolling in

M - You may need to <flex> a little bit so she really understands how you feel. I think we tend to take it early on and always feel the need to validate but once you get your legs underneath of you F-that I say....sometimes they just need to hear it

Originally Posted by Maika

Yeh, that feels about right Steve. Also other fantasies are slowly crashing down for her so this just adds more fuel to the fire - I ain't around to provide partnership on these things to her.

J - yeah, I think I need to cultivate that look

Maybe I'll look at a few videos of Dwayne Johnson as 'The Rock' to get his eyebrow tilt.

Nef - bro, you my philosopher on the side-hustle. Keep those quotes rolling in

I know in my sitch my W loved the control she had over me early on. When I started to detach, she felt that loss of control and realized that Plan B was slipping through her fingers, and Plan A was never that solid, and then all the other fantasies as you say followed suit.

Maika, I haven't followed your sitch real closely because you seemed to have a very good handle on things. But it feels as if your sitch is starting to head towards R? Am I misreading?

It's definitely not heading towards a R. Most likely in the other direction actually. I am planning on filing for D Jan 2019. I need to get a couple of other things in order first and then do that.

I have a good handle on things and I am doing great, but the W has not really turned around at all. She's still super angry and judgmental and so I am just staying out of her line of fire. It's all good though. I am in a great place and things are finally clicking for me in all areas of my life.

Funny how different our sitches are even though we started this journey around the same time. Your STBXW is still angry and has not changed at all while my XW and I are very much like two people who never even were married.

You seem to be going strong so keep up the good work.

You're totally right J. Some flexing is coming her way soon. I am cooked and done. Truly.

LC - yeah, the outcomes are so varied. J9 also started at the same time as us and it's been a ride for him as well. I am strong and just reached a place where I am like 'f$ck this'.... I am realizing lately how short life is and I truly don't want to be in this place any more. My friend is really quizzing me on why I haven't started dating and I don't have good reasons. I think that I am pretty much at a place emotionally and mentally where I am done. I just want my version of happiness and love and I am going to move on now. I have been moving forward but now it is time to move on.

Moving on and still shining.

Hey DB community! I am around and reading here and there, but not as active. Things are still the same on my end, hence no real updates. Moving in a couple of weeks to my apartment and I am looking forward to it. Yesterday I felt sad about it as it felt like I was losing something again. I processed my emotions, shed a few tears, and then took a nap. Woke up feeling better and started working on future plans. Re-framed my thoughts and realized that it's natural to feel the way I felt, and I am glad that I don't suppress my emotions anymore. Healthy release and then back on the saddle. Overall I am doing great and my emotional intelligence has improved tremendously.

Slight deviation - I had found an amazing piece on CL that I am sharing below. Can't post links so going to share the text. One of the things that made me crazy was W telling me that 'she has been unhappy for years'. I didn't know how to deal with that and how to even counter it, until I found this on CL that talks exactly about that. It's an old post. This is for the newbies who are getting the same line as one of the reasons for BD. Hopefully this will help.

-------------------------------

The other week someone asked me to decode, �I haven�t been happy for a long time.� (Also sometimes expressed as �WE haven�t been happy for a long time.�)

It�s trotted out when the chump is looking for an explanation as to why their family life just blew up.

Well DUH. �I haven�t been happy for a long time!�

This statement presupposes a number of things:

A) That the cheater�s happiness is the most important thing (and is a valid answer to the Why Did You Commit This Dreadful Betrayal?)

B) That they�ve silently suffered for a long time and gee whiz, isn�t it time AT LAST! that they experience some true happiness?

And�

C) How could you be so dumb that you never noticed how unhappy they were? Heck, how could you not notice how unhappy YOU were until they pointed it out? (WE haven�t been happy for a long time.)

This sends the chump into apoplexies of self reflection. Well, yes, I am sometimes unhappy, but it passes. Or� hang on, how could I have missed my spouse�s cosmic misery? Apparently it was long and went on for EONS. Am I just that insensitive?

Of course you have no way of challenging this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� statement because you are not in their heads. You have no idea what they feel. So if you say, �BUT YOU LOOKED HAPPY. You had kids with me! We went snorkeling in Barbados! You drank the coffee I brought to you every morning! You said you LOVED your birthday slippers!� the cheater can just say, �Nope. I wasn�t happy.�

But you looked happy. Happy enough anyway.

�No, I was full of sorrow. Every minute. My life was a burden of grief and misery. At night I used to gnaw at the invisible chains that kept me tethered to you.�

Oh.

So chumps, how are you supposed to interpret this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� crap? Here�s a few ways to look at it:

1.) Take them at their word. Okay, you�ve been a miserable sod for decades. You, cheater, are responsible for addressing the things that make you unhappy and adjusting your life accordingly. While as a loving spouse I want to support you, if your needs are not communicated to me, there is jack $hit I can do to help you.

2) Don�t accept responsibility. If the cheater was so unhappy in the marriage, they had ethical ways to go about ending their marriage � beginning with trying to save it first. Or getting out honestly before they told all their �troubles� to a sympathetic f#$kbuddy.

3) They�re bull$hitting you. Cake is delicious. They were probably perfectly happy with you and the services you provided � paycheck, child-rearing, air of respectability. It wasn�t until they were busted at D-Day that their Great Unhappiness was revealed. Blame shifting their �unhappiness� on to you is an invitation to do the pick me dance. Oh, you�re unhappy? How can I make you happy? I can control that! I can WIN your happiness! Let me TRY HARDER!

And guess what, they�re probably pulling the same $hit on the affair partner. Oh, my marriage makes me so unhappy, but I must stay for the children! I am a noble slave to convention! Woe! And the affair partner goes, I will PROVE to you that I can make you happy! I can control your destiny! I can WIN!

Cake, cake, wonderful cake.

You don't have to post a link, you can read the first sentence and know where that came from, LOL! That site tends to make the LBS sound like a hapless victim of an evil WAS which of course isn't completely true, but it does make for some entertaining reading

Yeah for sure. some of the stuff there is truly over the top and makes the LBS look like they don't have agency... there's also a lot of angry ranting towards the WAS/WW, which I take with a grain of salt... i feel like they just haven't dealt with their anger issues and it's just a rant fest all the time. It is entertaining though lol.

Originally Posted by Maika

Hey DB community! I am around and reading here and there, but not as active. Things are still the same on my end, hence no real updates. Moving in a couple of weeks to my apartment and I am looking forward to it. Yesterday I felt sad about it as it felt like I was losing something again. I processed my emotions, shed a few tears, and then took a nap. Woke up feeling better and started working on future plans. Re-framed my thoughts and realized that it's natural to feel the way I felt, and I am glad that I don't suppress my emotions anymore. Healthy release and then back on the saddle. Overall I am doing great and my emotional intelligence has improved tremendously.

Slight deviation - I had found an amazing piece on CL that I am sharing below. Can't post links so going to share the text. One of the things that made me crazy was W telling me that 'she has been unhappy for years'. I didn't know how to deal with that and how to even counter it, until I found this on CL that talks exactly about that. It's an old post. This is for the newbies who are getting the same line as one of the reasons for BD. Hopefully this will help.

-------------------------------

The other week someone asked me to decode, �I haven�t been happy for a long time.� (Also sometimes expressed as �WE haven�t been happy for a long time.�)

It�s trotted out when the chump is looking for an explanation as to why their family life just blew up.

Well DUH. �I haven�t been happy for a long time!�

This statement presupposes a number of things:

A) That the cheater�s happiness is the most important thing (and is a valid answer to the Why Did You Commit This Dreadful Betrayal?)

B) That they�ve silently suffered for a long time and gee whiz, isn�t it time AT LAST! that they experience some true happiness?

And�

C) How could you be so dumb that you never noticed how unhappy they were? Heck, how could you not notice how unhappy YOU were until they pointed it out? (WE haven�t been happy for a long time.)

This sends the chump into apoplexies of self reflection. Well, yes, I am sometimes unhappy, but it passes. Or� hang on, how could I have missed my spouse�s cosmic misery? Apparently it was long and went on for EONS. Am I just that insensitive?

Of course you have no way of challenging this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� statement because you are not in their heads. You have no idea what they feel. So if you say, �BUT YOU LOOKED HAPPY. You had kids with me! We went snorkeling in Barbados! You drank the coffee I brought to you every morning! You said you LOVED your birthday slippers!� the cheater can just say, �Nope. I wasn�t happy.�

But you looked happy. Happy enough anyway.

�No, I was full of sorrow. Every minute. My life was a burden of grief and misery. At night I used to gnaw at the invisible chains that kept me tethered to you.�

Oh.

So chumps, how are you supposed to interpret this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� crap? Here�s a few ways to look at it:

1.) Take them at their word. Okay, you�ve been a miserable sod for decades. You, cheater, are responsible for addressing the things that make you unhappy and adjusting your life accordingly. While as a loving spouse I want to support you, if your needs are not communicated to me, there is jack $hit I can do to help you.

2) Don�t accept responsibility. If the cheater was so unhappy in the marriage, they had ethical ways to go about ending their marriage � beginning with trying to save it first. Or getting out honestly before they told all their �troubles� to a sympathetic f#$kbuddy.

3) They�re bull$hitting you. Cake is delicious. They were probably perfectly happy with you and the services you provided � paycheck, child-rearing, air of respectability. It wasn�t until they were busted at D-Day that their Great Unhappiness was revealed. Blame shifting their �unhappiness� on to you is an invitation to do the pick me dance. Oh, you�re unhappy? How can I make you happy? I can control that! I can WIN your happiness! Let me TRY HARDER!

And guess what, they�re probably pulling the same $hit on the affair partner. Oh, my marriage makes me so unhappy, but I must stay for the children! I am a noble slave to convention! Woe! And the affair partner goes, I will PROVE to you that I can make you happy! I can control your destiny! I can WIN!

Cake, cake, wonderful cake.

A lot of truth in there. In the end, the WW/WH is simply justifying their own crappy behavior to make themselves feel better or get validation from their enabling crew of friends, fellows cheaters, and family.

If the LBS was so bad that they WH/WW was truly never happy, then OMG everyone is overcome with joy for the newfound happiness. We can't stop someone from being happy can we? Puke.

It always takes two to tango. The LBS isn't innocent, and the LBS's stupid crap that they pulled doesn't justify the stupid crap that the WS pulls. But we are emotional, crazy creatures and this is the manifestation of being pulled in so many directions at once. That's why it is on the LBS to become the rock, the lighthouse, and light a path out of the storm and into a safe harbor.

Thanks for sharing that.

Somebody needs to give me some more hints. I need some good entertainment. What site is that?

The other website/forum can get a bit depressing and rage-y over there, but once in a while there is some good stuff.

Maika, I'm glad your moving on and feeling good about it. Two thumbs up!

Please start a new thread. This thread has reached the 100 posting/reply limit. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Maika

Hey DB community! I am around and reading here and there, but not as active. Things are still the same on my end, hence no real updates. Moving in a couple of weeks to my apartment and I am looking forward to it. Yesterday I felt sad about it as it felt like I was losing something again. I processed my emotions, shed a few tears, and then took a nap. Woke up feeling better and started working on future plans. Re-framed my thoughts and realized that it's natural to feel the way I felt, and I am glad that I don't suppress my emotions anymore. Healthy release and then back on the saddle. Overall I am doing great and my emotional intelligence has improved tremendously.

Slight deviation - I had found an amazing piece on CL that I am sharing below. Can't post links so going to share the text. One of the things that made me crazy was W telling me that 'she has been unhappy for years'. I didn't know how to deal with that and how to even counter it, until I found this on CL that talks exactly about that. It's an old post. This is for the newbies who are getting the same line as one of the reasons for BD. Hopefully this will help.

-------------------------------

The other week someone asked me to decode, �I haven�t been happy for a long time.� (Also sometimes expressed as �WE haven�t been happy for a long time.�)

It�s trotted out when the chump is looking for an explanation as to why their family life just blew up.

Well DUH. �I haven�t been happy for a long time!�

This statement presupposes a number of things:

A) That the cheater�s happiness is the most important thing (and is a valid answer to the Why Did You Commit This Dreadful Betrayal?)

B) That they�ve silently suffered for a long time and gee whiz, isn�t it time AT LAST! that they experience some true happiness?

And�

C) How could you be so dumb that you never noticed how unhappy they were? Heck, how could you not notice how unhappy YOU were until they pointed it out? (WE haven�t been happy for a long time.)

This sends the chump into apoplexies of self reflection. Well, yes, I am sometimes unhappy, but it passes. Or� hang on, how could I have missed my spouse�s cosmic misery? Apparently it was long and went on for EONS. Am I just that insensitive?

Of course you have no way of challenging this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� statement because you are not in their heads. You have no idea what they feel. So if you say, �BUT YOU LOOKED HAPPY. You had kids with me! We went snorkeling in Barbados! You drank the coffee I brought to you every morning! You said you LOVED your birthday slippers!� the cheater can just say, �Nope. I wasn�t happy.�

But you looked happy. Happy enough anyway.

�No, I was full of sorrow. Every minute. My life was a burden of grief and misery. At night I used to gnaw at the invisible chains that kept me tethered to you.�

Oh.

So chumps, how are you supposed to interpret this �I haven�t been happy for a long time� crap? Here�s a few ways to look at it:

1.) Take them at their word. Okay, you�ve been a miserable sod for decades. You, cheater, are responsible for addressing the things that make you unhappy and adjusting your life accordingly. While as a loving spouse I want to support you, if your needs are not communicated to me, there is jack $hit I can do to help you.

2) Don�t accept responsibility. If the cheater was so unhappy in the marriage, they had ethical ways to go about ending their marriage � beginning with trying to save it first. Or getting out honestly before they told all their �troubles� to a sympathetic f#$kbuddy.

3) They�re bull$hitting you. Cake is delicious. They were probably perfectly happy with you and the services you provided � paycheck, child-rearing, air of respectability. It wasn�t until they were busted at D-Day that their Great Unhappiness was revealed. Blame shifting their �unhappiness� on to you is an invitation to do the pick me dance. Oh, you�re unhappy? How can I make you happy? I can control that! I can WIN your happiness! Let me TRY HARDER!

And guess what, they�re probably pulling the same $hit on the affair partner. Oh, my marriage makes me so unhappy, but I must stay for the children! I am a noble slave to convention! Woe! And the affair partner goes, I will PROVE to you that I can make you happy! I can control your destiny! I can WIN!

Cake, cake, wonderful cake.

Other than the profanities, this is well stated.

The one thing I always come back to is, yeah....but I didn't cheat.

"You are mean. You are always grouchy." YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T CHEAT.
"You are controlling, you don't let me spend money like it grows on trees." YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T CHEAT.
"You aren't loving. You don't take care of me." YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T CHEAT.
"You are always gone, are never here. You don't listen to me." YEAH, BUT I DIDN'T CHEAT
"Look at this list of complaints! I must be right!" EXCEPT, YOU CHEATED!

The cheater's capacity to lie, deny, redirect, project, justify, and turn upside down right and wrong is unbelievable. As if anything on the list above IS WORSE than cheating!

M! I�m missing you man. Do what Job said: start a new thread. Cmon!

Hey Nef! haha yeh. Nothing interesting has happened in my sitch lately, but I will start a new thread. Small incidents but I don't fall for crumbs and will not tolerate subtle nonsense. I'll start a thread and post some developments - nothing exciting or juicy unfortunately.

Please start a new thread. You are over the 100 posting/reply limit. Also, please link this thread to your new one and vice versa. Many thanks!

No worries job - all done!

New Thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2817145#Post2817145