Following from thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2801173&page=4I don't trust W at all about anything.
Today, W and kids met me at an event. Wife called me to say they would be late. She then sent a text message to say the same thing. I think she sent the text as she is keeping records of everything.
W said I looked very smart. We walked around together for about an hour (I said and did all the right things) and then W said she was leaving to go food shopping. I saw lots of families I knew. It was hard being the only lone parent with one exception.
At the end, I walked from the event with my kids and the other lone parent and her kids towards a shop to get drinks. W drove towards us and stopped the car. W offered the kids and I a lift to the shop (I was surprised that she let me into the car). W stopped the car at the shop and wanted to take a photo of the kids & I. I declined my photo because I don't trust her. The way I look has changed a lot recently. I wondered whether W might even want a photo of me to give to someone to give me D papers. That is how little I trust W.
W wasn't going to go into the shop with the kids & I but then changed her mind. It seemed that she didn't really need to buy anything as she had already been food shopping. I walked away to buy my own stuff. She then offered me a lift home.
W then asked if I still needed a computer fixing. I did. She offered to get if fixed for me. I asked why. W said she wanted everything to be alright. She said I needed to get the computer fixed so that I can earn more money to pay bills. I don't trust her motives for anything.
I'd forgotten to buy some bread so she offered me hers. I didn't accept it. W said her house was very messy. I said mine is very tidy.
If I was to take W at face value then it would seem quite positive, but I can't trust her.
Your W is acting strangely. I don't see it yet either, but in time you will know.
She probably offered the ridge bc you were walking with another woman, IMO...
It seems that I was right why W wanted to take a photo of me.
"The process server (of divorce papers) will need a recent photo and description of your spouse."
I think W is so obsessed with getting a fast D that I've no chance of saving our marriage. She isn't even willing to talk about our relationship. We have 2 lovely little children. I really feel for them because they deserve so much better.
Hi David,
Why would she want to save it if she doesn't love you anymore?
Have you ever considered this?
Sometimes it really is that simple sometimes.
I dont understand what children have to do with anything? - if she isn't happy she isn't going to stay - no matter what house, home, kids or whatever you have.
You are wasting valuable energy here focusing on her saying (you look good) or you stating (i said and did all the right things) whatever - it means nothing - and she is quite clearly keeping you sweet while we plots her escape to her "new" life.
Your going round and round in circles.
Hi Benito,
I realise that which is why I don't trust anything she says or does.
I owe it to my kids and myself to be able to say that I've done my best to save our marriage.
If she wasn't moving so fast and telling so many lies then I would be confident that we could fall back in love.
Hi David,
What makes you confident she would fall back in love with you?
Just asking to understand
We have always been great together when we spend time alone just the 2 of us. We'd not had that time for many months. I think the S has been good for me in many ways. I think that given time and space with the 2 of us alone it would work again . Having said that, I've lost trust in her and I'm disappointed in how she is behaving so I'd only want to take it very slowly even if there was a chance.
Ok..
What happens is she doesnt love you anymore?
You can't make people love you.
Whats your plan then?
Once again just asking to understand
I have several different plans but they are dependant upon what a D settlement would be like, whether she would be with someone else or whether I will be. Even if she came back I would be very cautious as she's lost my trust.
Say for example... its a 50/50 split and you find out she is having a relationship with someone else and there is nothing to save the relationship.
What then?
It seems that I was right why W wanted to take a photo of me.
"The process server (of divorce papers) will need a recent photo and description of your spouse."
I mean, I think she could just take a picture of you without needing the kids or a pose to function for a process server.
I think you are spending all of your energy trying to analyze her reactions in so much detail. I think it's a waste. I recommend to have patience and in time, her intentions will reveal themselves.
Maybe instead, continue to focus on what is important. Securing your time with the kids. GAL. and so on.
It seems like there are a LOT of school events, and each time, there is a lot of interaction between you and W. How can you start to be darker/more mysterious towards her?
"I mean, I think she could just take a picture of you without needing the kids or a pose to function for a process server.
W never takes photos of me and none exist of me with my new look. so I thought something was wrong when she said it. W said she would take one photo of the kids together then each of us separately. I just avoided it but she still seemed to be pointing it towards me at other times.
"I recommend to have patience and in time, her intentions will reveal themselves."
I would like lots of time to process what has happened but it seems W is moving fast. She has told the kids that she wants the family home sold (where I still live) and that "it won't take months and months" so I'm expecting D papers very soon.
It seems like there are a LOT of school events, and each time, there is a lot of interaction between you and W. How can you start to be darker/more mysterious towards her?"
You are right. There have been a lot but it is because it is the end of the school year. Summer holidays start in a few days. W is taking kids away for a week soon - I am guessing that is when I will be served D papers. W is also avoiding talk of when I should have the kids during the school summer holidays. I think the last thing I said to her was that with everything that has been going on that I want a stress free summer to chill-out.
I wake-up crying every morning knowing my W and family are gone from our home and all our future plans that I was so looking forward too have been destroyed. I miss my family life so much.
In addition, finding out that W had planned for divorce whilst we were still sleeping together, had tried to get me into trouble (and failed), refuses to talk about our relationship, and seems to be heading towards issuing D papers any day soon as she's told the kids she will be moving within months and wants the house sold. It is totally overwhelming.
I wish I knew for sure if there was an OM/OW.
DavidUK- I haven't read all your story just this thread but it sounds to me that you are hurting a lot and maybe you can answer this to yourself but perhaps a lot of your hurt is self-inflicted?
Just realise that you are going through a process and one day (totally depending on yourself) you will come out of it , sounds like you are grieving for the life you dreamed and unfortunately it didn't happen that way. Well, welcome to life. I know it is easier said than done- but these events truly make us who we really are but by all means it doesn't need to define you. Inside you, insead that core DavidUK- lies someone who stands above all this sh** and only you know what is that person like.
I realise that your W has already left you. So my suggestion is to toally refocus from her to yourself. Do your best to distract your thoughts and focus on your own life and your children. What is the fun thing you would like to experience yourself today?
Your W will do what she will do, you can't influence her but you can show her what she is going to lose. Stop initiating all relationship talk. And even if you D - I promise you there is life out there and someone else for you. D in the UK takes time, and I suggest you just deal with this as cold heartedly matter of factly as you can. Leave emotions aside in this and think for yourself and what's best for you.
I have been through D once, and I am trying to avoid the second one... but inside I know, even if it happens- it is mean to happen but yet I still want to do my best and be the best person I can be regardless of the outcome.
Hi MrsJLS,
I think W is going for a quick divorce so it might only take about 4 to 5 months.
I have been through bad times in my life before, know myself well, and what it takes. I have done all my personal goals. I then dedicated myself to my family. I know that I won't be able to get over this. W was the only person I fully trusted. My soul-mate for 25 years became someone who was abusive to me and lied. I can't believe how low she has gone.
School reports arrived today and the kids have done amazing. I was their main carer so I know I have put in the hard work to help give them the best possible start to their lives. D will mean that I won't even be able to afford to live in the local area.
I would like lots of time to process what has happened but it seems W is moving fast. She has told the kids that she wants the family home sold (where I still live) and that "it won't take months and months" so I'm expecting D papers very soon.
You have all the time in the world. The divorce decree is just a piece of paper. How would it really change your life. Even if you get divorced, theres no rule that says you cant remarry. I
My point was not that her actions will revealed before D. Maybe they will, maybe they wont. But someday, her motives will be revealed.
W is also avoiding talk of when I should have the kids during the school summer holidays. I think the last thing I said to her was that with everything that has been going on that I want a stress free summer to chill-out.
I dont understand what that means...Shes avoiding talking about it, so youre just dropping it? To avoid stress? Im sorry, but I dont understand.
I wish I knew for sure if there was an OM/OW.
What would change if there were?
I know that I won't be able to get over this.
Then you wont.
How can you reframe this to the version where you can acknowledge that this situation [censored], but you ARE strong enough to endure and overcome? Instead of wallowing day in and day out, how can you take action to protect yourself and regain control over your life's direction?
What kind of GAL do you have planned??
I dont understand what that means...Shes avoiding talking about it, so youre just dropping it? To avoid stress? Im sorry, but I don't understand.
I want to see the kids a lot during the summer holidays without the stress of dealing with divorce/relationship stuff, so I hope that if W does serve papers then it won't be until after the summer holidays.
I know that in about a week, W and her parents are taking the kids away for a week or so (when I'm guessing that D papers might be served) but W still hasn't told me the exact dates. I've said I would like to take the kids on holiday the following week but I can't book anything yet until I know when they will be back.
Im not sure not having stress or dealing with divorce is something you are going to be to avoid unfortunately.
But what you can do is re frame the moment from (look what I have lost) to (this is an opportunity to improve and move forward).
You said yesterday you wont get over this... that is utter nonsense.
You have based your self worth and existance as being a family man and husband - but they are roles - not you. These roles are functional - but in the same way a convenient hiding place for us to shy away from our basic fear of being unloved and alone.
No one will love you like you can love youself.
Go read Maika's thread and his latest posts. Its a long ride buddy, but is 100% necessary.
The breakdown in my marriage was the most important event in my life looking back - and that included times of suicide and depression. Its all part of the process.
I wake-up crying every morning knowing my W and family are gone from our home and all our future plans that I was so looking forward too have been destroyed. I miss my family life so much.
Really sorry you're going through this. I can relate to how you feel though, as I'm sure many others here can. Between dating and marriage my ex and I had 25 years together. We had investments, retirement plans, everything planned out. When all of that is ripped away it is devastating. But that's life for you, the more comfortable you get then the more likely life is going to throw some ugly curveball your way. Divorce, terrible illnesses, sudden deaths, it's all on the table. You just don't know it. That was one big life lesson for me- plan for the future but expect the unexpected, because the unexpected IS going to happen. It's not a question of "if" but "when".
Regarding Benito's point, you need to quit concerning yourself with "take action A to get reaction B out of wife" and just take action A because it is right for you and what you want. Benito clung desperately to his W like so many of us did. It wasn't until he well and truly accepted she was gone and got about the business of working on himself that she did a 180. The way DB'ing works is you focus on yourself and your kids and be the best man and best father possible without concerning yourself with whether it will bring your W back or not. As long as you hold that rope she will run and run and run. Drop the rope and she'll stop and look back and maybe even reverse course. The irony is you've got to get to the point where you no longer care if she comes back before she might.
You have all the time in the world. The divorce decree is just a piece of paper. How would it really change your life. Even if you get divorced, theres no rule that says you can't remarry.
D settlement could mean me having to move away from my kids to afford somewhere to live. I hadn't told W but even before we split I'd been thinking about us getting remarried.
My point was not that her actions will revealed before D. Maybe they will, maybe they wont. But someday, her motives will be revealed.
I know quite a lot about her planning to leave and hiding money in advance for a D. I worked out the truth from bits of info and it was a massive shock. It explains a lot of her behaviour where, when and why I was suspicious.
I wish I knew for sure if there was an OM/OW.
What would change if there were?"
W would go even lower in my estimation. I'd consider being with someone else. In the meantime, if W is/was in a short-term thing and wanted to return then I'd might have a way to get to terms with it. Even so, she would have to change to become more mature.
It is interesting as to how the dynamics have changed. When she left, she blamed me for everything and I started to believe it myself. However, I then discovered she was telling lots of lies. I then told her that I'm not perfect but at least I'm honest, faithful and put my family first. I still expect D papers v.soon.
Between dating and marriage my ex and I had 25 years together.
25 years for me too.
Benito clung desperately to his W like so many of us did. It wasn't until he well and truly accepted she was gone and got about the business of working on himself that she did a 180. The way DB'ing works is you focus on yourself and your kids and be the best man and best father possible without concerning yourself with whether it will bring your W back or not. As long as you hold that rope she will run and run and run. Drop the rope and she'll stop and look back and maybe even reverse course. The irony is you've got to get to the point where you no longer care if she comes back before she might.
I am starting to get towards that point because she lies so much and is so devious. I'm disappointed in her. That isn't the soul-mate that I loved for most of my life. I'm getting tired of it.
Many years ago, I had a similar situation in a different relationship. She dumped me and then used to walk past me each morning when I was walking to work . She used to ignore me every time. I then moved to live far away.
W has said she remembers what I had told her about that and doesn't want me to do it as she wants me to be around for the kids.
Back to the story... about a year later, the woman and I got back together. She told me that she used to make an effort to get up early in the morning just to walk past me to ignore me. She didn't even know why she used to do it as she was the one who dumped me. After a few months back together, she was going to move to where I lived but then dumped me again. I wasn't bothered. I was tired of being messed about.
I asked W in a text if I could see the kids on Thursday for the day. W has agreed and asked "will you be taking them out?"
W never tells me about anything she is planning with the kids for days out. I'm not sure how to respond to her asking me. Suggestions?
My W filed the papers last week David and I’m feeling so raw, still waking up between 3-4am and surviving on 4-5 hours sleep for the past month.
Like you, I just can’t understand W’s thinking - she is taking our two sons away for two weeks on Friday, on a holiday that I was also booked to go on (we only booked it three months ago, and here we are in this sitch)
We made plans to take the kids out this afternoon for a day out and to show that we can still be together and be civil, she suggested going somewhere near water, so I found a lovely spot in Surrey. She just messaged to say that she couldn’t see the point in going now, the kids are really disappointed and I’m left thinking that she must be being coached by a friend to totally detach from me to help firm up her reaolve to see this through.
We both seem to be in very similar positions, though I’ve already had the papers sent through.
I’m starting to see that db is about working on myself to make me a better Dad and person and if it brings my W back, then that will be a bonus.
Stay strong and I’ll try to help chipping in to your thread
DavidUK- I think in your situation when your W asks what your are going to do with your children- be quite evasive and mysterious- say something like - " I haven't decided yet but I am sure we will do something fun"- or "yes, I have planned a few things but will decide when I see the kids and talk to them first".
Leave her wondering what you are going to do -see it as a poker game, you don't want to show her your cards - e. g. what you are planning, thinking, and feeling- but do that in cheerful, fun, confident manner- by all means avoid looking desperate- that will put her off. Read the detachment thread- I think it works in your case.
I am not sure whether or not it was here or somewhere else where I read that one spouse is like a monkey banging on the chest, making noise so the other spouse notices and starts talking, loving, engaging etc.. however the other spouse is a turtle- he / she stays in the shell, because the monkey is making so much noise and the turtle feels safer inside. As soon as the monkey stops making the noise, the turtle comes out of the shell and becomes more curious. So basically I am trying to suggest that you could stop being a monkey and making the noise! Let the turtle become more curious...
Jaylove, I get a strong feeling that my W is being coached too. I've a good idea as to who it is. Plus a parent planning the money and the other backing her to leave me. W is also taking the kids away for a week or so in the next week.
MrsJLS thanks, those were the words I wanted. W had sent... "will you be taking them out? Hope all is OK". I have to laugh at the insincerity of "Hope all is OK".... yeah all is OK... apart from her splitting my family, taking money, and planning to divorce me whilst still sleeping with me, and tried to get me into trouble, and wants to sell my home... then yeah, all is OK... I have to laugh. I think she's the chest banging monkey AND the turtle.
W will be collecting kids later. I want to be able to ask her to not go for a quick D. What should I do?
I want to be able to ask her to not go for a quick D. What should I do?
You have got to be joking?
Do NOT do that.
Why are you trying to convince her to stay?.. thats not love. Let her go and if she comes back you knew it was real. If not, you are better off.
Went very well with the kids. W came to collect. I casually mentioned that perhaps we could talk when not in front of the kids.
W said she had been talking to me for 1.5 to 2 years. I was amazed by that. I said I hadn't realised, but I do now.
However, we had never once discussed our relationship sensibly other that her refusing to ever listen to me and her shouting abuse at me. She was never adult about it.
2 years ago is when her parents bought a house locally and left if empty. My Mum had always suspected they bought that house for W to move into anytime she liked. It seems she could be right.
If your wife is taking the children abroad she will be breaking UK law if she does so without your written consent- it’s a criminal offence. I had to send my wife’s solicitor my written permission, which initially I was reluctant to agree to as the holiday was meant to be for us as a family. I realised that it would affect the kids if they didn’t go. So much as I wanted to say “no” from an emotional perspective, I let it go.
Benito, I saw your message - thanks it stopped me. It is just that I don't yet feel prepared to start talking about D details with legal people as I'm still dealing with the shock of the split.
M-i-L dropped off the kids and she gave me a massive hug for ages. This is from a woman who has wanted W & I to split-up for 25 years and now lives with W. Perhaps she realises that it's now all over and/or thinks W has OM and has sympathy or perhaps she knows that I know she has helped W to hide money. I don't know, but for her to hug me like that was a lot different. I think it means the end.
I'm guessing D papers will arrive by next Friday when they go away for a week.
W will be here again dropping of the kids off first thing in the morning.
Some good news... today I've got below my target weight. I've lost 31 lbs in just under 2 months.
Some good news... today I've got below my target weight. I've lost 31 lbs in just under 2 months.
Ahh.. the good old divorce diet.
Least there is a shining light in the stress
Hi Benito, I started eating healthier well before W left so was losing weight but I've certainly done it much faster in last 2 months since she left as I now walk to a shop and buy fresh ingredients every day. I suppose that has become a part of my GAL. I enjoy it and I talk to other people walking.
W would probably think that me walking to the shop is a 180. She's asked a few times about it.
Just got a call... kids are due to arrive 1.5 hours later than planned. I was going to take them out for breakfast for the first time on my own, so I'm not happy about that. Kids said yesterday that W and in-laws are "totally disorganised". For little kids to be saying that says it all. I'm getting fed up of it.
Hi David,
Benito is giving you stellar advise. What of his recent advise do you agree with? Is there any that you disagree with? If so why?
Some good news... today I've got below my target weight. I've lost 31 lbs in just under 2 months.
Yeah, no kidding. I've dropped 71 in less than 3 months myself. Doc didn't seemed concerned, so I'm just rolling with it. Stay strong and take care of yourself.
Also,
I know there are many reasons we post on the message boards while going through this process. My main assumption is you want advise on how to save your marriage. This is where my advise is focused, saving your marriage.
Almost everything that I have seen work for others is COUNTER intuitive to the person going through it.
Pursuing your W will backfire. Intuitively you believe this will work. (if I am wrong, please correct me).
"Setting her free" is the solution.
It is time to "Man up". I can elaborate on this term if you would like, just ask.
Women love to test men. This is the biggest test of your life. We want you to pass with an A.
Regards,
R2C
Benito, I saw your message - thanks it stopped me. It is just that I don't yet feel prepared to start talking about D details with legal people as I'm still dealing with the shock of the split.
I think this is a big mistake. Frankly, knowledge is power. Talking to the legal team will help you understand your rights./ And what rights you are giving up by continuing on your current path. I think you should be talking to a lawyer ASAP.
M-i-L dropped off the kids and she gave me a massive hug for ages. This is from a woman who has wanted W & I to split-up for 25 years and now lives with W. Perhaps she realises that it's now all over and/or thinks W has OM and has sympathy or perhaps she knows that I know she has helped W to hide money. I don't know, but for her to hug me like that was a lot different. I think it means the end.
I'm guessing D papers will arrive by next Friday when they go away for a week.
W will be here again dropping of the kids off first thing in the morning.
How can you stop trying to guess and hypothesize and analyze and speculate? It is such a waste of energy. WHO KNOWS what it meant. Maybe MIL was sad. Maybe she misses you. Maybe her cat died. Maybe she is worried about gun safety in your neighborhood and is glad youre safe. Who knows? As for D papers...theyll come when they come. Why spend weeks on edge waiting for them.
You need to focus on you and your life and your kids and GAL and what YOU CAN CONTROL.
Amoafwl is wise. please listen and take action.
Benito, I saw your message - thanks it stopped me. It is just that I don't yet feel prepared to start talking about D details with legal people as I'm still dealing with the shock of the split.
I think this is a big mistake. Frankly, knowledge is power. Talking to the legal team will help you understand your rights./ And what rights you are giving up by continuing on your current path. I think you should be talking to a lawyer ASAP.
How.is what i said a big mistake?
No where have i said dont go and get legal advise.. tbf i have been the one pushing him to detach throughout this story.
I told him not to beg wife to delay the divorce.. there is a difference
DavidUK "Not yet feeling prepared to talk with legal people" is the mistake, not your statement. That is how I read it anyway.
Benito, I saw your message - thanks it stopped me. It is just that I don't yet feel prepared to start talking about D details with legal people as I'm still dealing with the shock of the split.
I think this is a big mistake. Frankly, knowledge is power. Talking to the legal team will help you understand your rights./ And what rights you are giving up by continuing on your current path. I think you should be talking to a lawyer ASAP.
How.is what i said a big mistake?
No where have i said dont go and get legal advise.. tbf i have been the one pushing him to detach throughout this story.
I told him not to beg wife to delay the divorce.. there is a difference
I didnt say your advice was a big mistake.
I said him not talking to a lawyer because he is too sad or too stunned is a big mistake.
Thanks everyone, I really do appreciate your comments and advice.
Some progress today...perhaps...
I took the kids by myself for a whole day out (for the first time so a 180 and GAL) to somewhere really great that W had often mentioned but we'd never been to before. W didn't know where we were going and I know she had been trying to find out from the kids. They couldn't tell her because they didn't know either. I just said it would be a fun surprise. It would have been the first time ever that W wouldn't have known where the kids were - so a 180 for her.
The kids had a really fantastic time. W came to collect them, and she looked amazed at where we had been. I was really happy and content having had a good day. I didn't invite W into the house (she would have said no anyway) I just left the door open. W said she was going to wait in the car but then came back and walked into the house. I was amazed because a month or so ago she'd had her legal person send a letter saying she'd never go into the house. I kept away busy in another room. I didn't offer her a drink. W saw me doing some washing-up (which had been her one chore) so that was another 180 for me. I'm very independent whereas W has her parents doing everything for her.
W stayed for an hour. From what little I noticed she looked awkward. Upon leaving with the kids W said "I love you... tell Daddy you love him, go on tell Daddy you love him". W never normally says such a thing, but she'd might ask them to thank me. I won't read anything into it because a few weeks ago she blew me a kiss when leaving with the kids. I think it's just for the sake of the kids.
I don't trust anything at all W says or does. I know from experience that she appears to be nice just as she is about to do the next hurtful action.
Yeah, don't read anything into anything. Ever. If she starts to soften and/or have a change of heart/mind, you will know and won't have to read anything into it.
I said him not talking to a lawyer because he is too sad or too stunned is a big mistake.
Must have got wires crossed, as I agree and think he should have been taking legal advise.
The WAW might be putting her plans in place while David is waiting for a better time
I did have some very quick legal advice. They just said 'It's all bull.. and to offer to go to mediation'. However, that could make a D process quicker and make R with W even worse. If W wants a D then she can make the effort to do it.
However, since then, I found out W is hiding money from D and now she knows that I know about it. I know she had a lot in Jan 2018 and she will have to show 12 months of accounts. Therefore, I will wait about 2 to 3 months and then I may have to look to D her to help ensure that I get a fair deal. That is assuming W doesn't deliver D papers before then which she might well do.
I did have some very quick legal advice. They just said 'It's all bull.. and to offer to go to mediation'. However, that could make a D process quicker and make R with W even worse. If W wants a D then she can make the effort to do it.
However, since then, I found out W is hiding money from D and now she knows that I know about it. I know she had a lot in Jan 2018 and she will have to show 12 months of accounts. Therefore, I will wait about 2 to 3 months and then I may have to look to D her to help ensure that I get a fair deal. That is assuming W doesn't deliver D papers before then which she might well do.
Why dont you take control of the situation rather than wait for her?
In my opinion, the longer you wait on this the worse this situation is going to get... it is not going to be getting much better to be fair.
Hi Benito,
Initially, W was blaming me for everything and I was accepting a lot of the blame, but then I uncovered some major lies W told, realised it wasn't me, and let her know. It has changed the dynamics. I'm the honest person with integrity whilst she is the opposite and she can't now kid herself otherwise. I believe 'if she feels bad towards me then that is her problem'.
Therefore, at the moment, I'm trying not to give W any excuses for any bad behaviour towards me so she can calm-down and reflect upon her own actions and consequences.
However, I can't afford to give it too long else she will rip me off for money etc. that she has been hiding in advance of D, but if I start D now then W will have reasons to get mad at me because of what I will want.
However, I am already doing some D prep making notes regardless of whether she starts D or if I do. If I do it, then I've got to time it right.
[quote=DavidUK], but if I start D now then W will have reasons to get mad at me because of what I will want.
/quote]
David, can you not see that you are altering your behaviour to fit around her reactions?
She still has the power
For a better outcome please take control.
David, can you not see that you are altering your behaviour to fit around her reactions?
She still has the power
For a better outcome please take control.
Yes, I can see that but there's a saying 'Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake'. W is making mistakes and I'm making notes of them.
A man of action is much more attractive than one taking notes.
A man of action is much more attractive than one taking notes.
I really don't want a D but at the same time, yes I don't want to be ripped-off by W in a D so will have to take advice on that front.
Something I've just realised... I was very independent before I met W. She was living with her parents. I somehow ended-up feeling like I was her parent doing almost everything at home myself and I was getting fed-up with her emotional immaturity dealing with any issues. W has left to go back to living with her parents and I've become independent once more.
I have been taking action in many ways - lost a lot of weight, exercise, look better, getting jobs done at home that had been a source of conflict etc.
In the last few days I've built a little bridge with MiL (who wants us to split and now lives with W). Yesterday, I took the kids out on my own for the first time and had a great day of fun. W even came into the house for an hour (despite having sent a legal letter to say she never would) - and I was blase about it.
Next, I'm going to treat myself to a couple of purchases, take a trip to stay with a great friend that I've not seen for years, and I want a holiday on my own with the kids.
A phycologist has told me they think W is playing games. I hadn't thought much about it. However, thinking back, W had been doing a smirk at times when I thought she was telling lies and I'd caught her out, and doing it when it seemed she'd been deliberately trying to start arguments. I have now found there is a name for it called Duper's Delight.
I also noticed that her behaviour can go from very happy to awful within a second like it's all an act. I've also noticed that she acts to get sympathy and attention from others. Her support network is now 3 stubborn single mums.
She has left me, so why the need for doing all that BS?
Regardless, detachment and to rise above it still seems the best policy to me.
Oh gosh... 3 days ago W actually came back into the house for about an hour. I thought it might have been a tiny, tiny bit of progress.
Tonight, W called as scheduled to make plans for me to see the kids. W was in a very bad mood. I was calm and polite. I asked her to speak to me nicely. I reminded her that I'm the father and have as much right to see the kids as she does.
I then went for a walk feeling a bit wound-up at how W was towards me.
I thought 'If leaving me was to be some great utopia then why is she so unhappy in a bad mood with me just like before she left?'. I thought perhaps she's feeling guilty about something she has done and trying to justify it to herself, or perhaps about to serve D papers, or perhaps jealous that the kids are missing me,... or perhaps... or perhaps... and then I started to smile because I was going home and looking forward to enjoy the rest of my evening in peace.
DavidUK- to me it sounds like your W is very ambivalent about the whole sitch, but you must detach and don't let her moods to dictate your life. I think you are doing really well actually. And in your place I would ask myself a question if I really would want to be with a person who has treated me and still continues to do in such a disrespectful way... maybe she is confused and doesn't know herself what she wants, and in a way is testing your reaction.
I thought it might have been a tiny, tiny bit of progress.
Hi David,
You say you are not reading into your interactions with her - however the above comment and recent posts still indicates that you still are.
Obviously you want to try and understand what is going on. But no matter what your psychologist says, no matter how much you think, no matter how much you try and work things out in your mind... It is wasted energy as the end product will still be the same unfortunately.
There will be no progress at this time. So please understand that you will find NO solace or answers reading her behavior - as it is the behavior of someone who does not have your best interests at heart anymore. She is feathering her own nest and to be honest it sounds like she is treating you badly. But this is only happening because you continue to allow it to happen.
All your strength should be on rebuilding your life and your outlook on the road ahead.
I know you don't want a divorce... but it is probably going to happen sadly - I think that is something you need to fully accept.
If you fully did, It wouldn't matter what say says or does or constantly thinking about why, it would be water of a ducks back.
MrsJLS,
I have never taken drugs, don't gamble, don't smoke, never cheated, women seem to find me attractive, responsible with money, enjoy cooking, good in all kinds of social settings. I have done some really cool things etc. I have done a good job raising my young kids pretty much on my own and they are doing extremely well at school. They are fab and no trouble at all.
However, I realise that W can be like a selfish spoiled kid and I've grown increasingly tired of it. She didn't ever want to talk sensibly about any relationship issues. I know what kind of relationship I would like. I had thought S could be a good thing for W to sort-out her own issues. As far as I'm concerned she needed to do that even if we were still together.
I have no idea where W mind is at. A few weeks ago she said to me "Gosh you're tall". I thought 25 years together and she says that... and then I realised... I'm walking taller... I'm not stooping down to her level.
Benito,
I am getting a lot better at detaching because I'm tired of all W lies etc. I really don't want a R like that.
However, I do want to understand so that I can learn and help me to move forwards. Learning is helping me to detach because the more I learn the more W goes down in my estimations.
I have received a message from W to say 'the kids are tired so don't want to do whole days out'. Ummm... there is no chance the kids would say that. W got very curious when I took the kids for a whole day out last week for the first time on my own (and W hadn't known in advance where we were going). The kids said it was amazing and were so, so happy. It seems that W doesn't want me to do that again. That's her problem. W will just have to get used to the idea that I can have great family times without her.
This morning, W dropped off the kids in the rain and W got out of the car to talk. I stepped back a few times and W stepped towards me.
I had a good day out and forgot about W for a lot of the time. It seemed nice just the 3 of us.
Later. W collected the kids and asked if she was allowed into the house. I joked that she was banned. The door was open so she walked in. I was surprised that W made a comment critical of her mother (who lives with her and wants us to split) and then said "you know what she's like". W paid me a compliment about my weight-loss. W spent about 3/4 of an hour in the house and seemed more relaxed than the previous occasion. It seems strange that nearly 2 months ago W was threatening me with solicitors letters saying she'd never come back into the house. Now if this goes true to form, she will be in a bad mood the next time I hear from her, which should be tomorrow.
Phew just as I was typing that W called and came back to the house as one of the kids had left something trivial behind. W could have stayed in the car but came to the door.
I'm trying not to read anything into it but it is interesting to observe now that I'm feeling more distant, feel more self-control, more disiplined.
I woke up in the middle of the night. I don't trust W at all.
I think I might be served D papers in the next few days. The reasons why:
- W wanted to take a photo of me (a recent photo is required for serving D papers).
- Once served, you then have a week to respond to the papers.
- W is going away with kids and in-laws and won't say when they are returning other than it will be after about a week or so. She won't say when, but she will know because she would have booked the days off work.
- W lied about which day they are going. She had said Sat but it will be Friday.
- MiL gave me a big long hug but she wants W & I to split. Wife has been more friendly and coming back into the house. I think it's guilt, the calm before the storm.
Here is a simple calculation:
Thinking + Mind reading = Wasted Energy / pointless
Put all of your energy on what you can control and NOT what she is going to do.
In reality you don't have a clue what is going to happen.
Update us on what you have planned for your life moving forward. All the activities you have planned etc..
Whilst they are away, I don't want to sit around waiting for a knock at the door with the possibility of D papers so plan to take a break away from that pressure. That is as far as I can see at the moment.
W hasn't told me when she will be back from a break away with the kids. I would like to know when I will see the kids. How can I best phrase it so that it doesn't come across as pursuit?
W hasn't told me when she will be back from a break away with the kids. I would like to know when I will see the kids. How can I best phrase it so that it doesn't come across as pursuit?
"W, I will miss the kids and would like to see them as soon as you return from the trip, could you please let me know when that will be?"
Thanks AS.
I've just had an interesting chat with MiL who I know wanted us to split. She says she's impressed with how calm I've been, lost a lot of weight, look much better, and I should continue the progress.
MiL claims that she didn't know W had been planning to leave. I know that isn't true. MiL says if there is OM then she will be very angry with W.
MiL says W takes after FiL in that she keeps her feelings to herself whereas MiL has a bad temper. I think W is like both of them. FiL then called over for MiL to stop talking to me. MiL says she would like just the 2 of us to talk for a coffee sometime.
I don't trust W and I don't trust IL's either.
W just called. She said she was changing plans:
A) Tomorrow I'm due to have the kids all day. W said I could only see them later in the afternoon. I was polite. calm but firm to say that it was short-notice, I had plans for them, and she should respect that what we do on days without her is up to me.
B) She said she wasn't able to collect them on time today as she will be late. I asked if she would mind the kids staying longer with me until she arrives as I wouldn't be seeing them next week (as W and IL's are taking them away). I asked if it was possible for them to stay the night. She said she would speak to her parents. FlL arrived to collect. He said he hadn't spoken to W. I suggested he called her to see if possible for kids to stay longer. He asked if I was refusing him to take the kids. I said no, he drove off. Kids are still with me.
Today, I suddenly realised that W & IL's have been taking advantage of my good nature for a very long time. They have treated me with utter contempt whilst being friendly towards me.
Today was a turning point. The kids heard the way FiL spoke to me. I stuck up for myself to get my time to see the kids. The kids were really pleased that I did.
Good for you David, I'm proud of you. Well done!
Thanks Lusa,
I had planned a full day out today with my children but was given very short notice yesterday by W to say I could only see them for a couple of hours because she was arranging for them to do something else rather than be with me. I said "No" I would have them all day as planned. W then asked to speak to one of the children to decide what to do. I explained they were busy and that I would decide. I said to W that she would have to respect that I am their father and that I have made the decision that they will be with me for the full day. W seemed to agree, reluctantly.
Yesterday, FiL arrived to take the children earlier than planned. I asked if he would wait longer. He claimed I was refusing to let them go with him. I wasn't. I politely and firmly told him that he would have to respect that I am their father. He left. The children were pleased. W collected them later (kids said she had been at a meeting after work with 2 others either of whom I suspect might be OM if she is having/had A).
I then felt something different about me, like I'd never felt before. W has told lies, left me, broken our family, has been taking money etc. but my final straw was her lack of respect for me with the children. I have looked after them pretty much on my own since they were born and I've done a fantastic job - they are great kids doing extremely well at school. Yet W doesn't respect me at all.
DavidUK- you have done extremely well, and stood up for yourself and your family and you are a wonderful father and I am sure you were a brilliant husband to your W. It must be very emotional at this time as you have no idea what is going to happen and you worry a lot about the future. But I would say the same thing as Benito-that to keep worrying and thinking about what your W is going to do is completely pointless and wasted energy. You have repeated many times in this forum that you don't trust your W or ILs. You may or may not be served D papers, but in reality none of us have any idea what will or will not happen tomorrow, it is totally out of our control. I know what I am talking about because I lost my younger brother 7 years ago in an accident... nobody saw that coming. We get that you don't trust your W. You keep repeating that by writing on this forum and I am sure you say that to yourself many times over and over.. cheeseless tunnels. It doesn't do anything. Focus on yourself and ask yourself- what could be the best thing you could today for DavidUK to make him feel good about his life right now regardless of what other people do or don't do. Personally, I made a special list for myself in my notebook to remind myself of about 20 fun things I love to do- to me it is to have a facial, calling a friend, taking a bath, taking the dog for a walk, play the piano, read this forum, work on my business, read inspirational quotes, put a make up on, buy a new dress etc. I realise that for men this list would look entirely different though
I'm getting better... no R talk, not asking questions about what W is doing, saying less, and my smiles are genuine because I enjoyed going out with the kids.
Kids said that MIL has been complaining that she doesn't really want to live in the local area and MIL would rather be back at their main house far away. MIL is doing all the cooking, childcare etc. W isn't doing anything at the house to help her.
Wife came to collect the kids. She said "I won't come into the house... I'll do some emails in the car... I'll ummmmm then come into the house". I didn't say anything. W then asked if she could come into the house. I said it was up to her as legally I can't stop her as she's allowed. W came into the house and told the kids to take their time.
W said MIL had made food for them and it was ready and waiting. Kids complained about what MIL was cooking. I then made some food for the kids and W said she agreed with me doing so (even if her mother wouldn't be happy about it). I didn't offer a drink to W as I knew she'd refuse it anyway. W stayed for about an hour.
W and IL are taking the kids away for over a week to visit relatives. W said she would call during the week and then again when they get back even if it's late at night. I said there was no need and that I hoped the kids would have a good time.
How does your W react when you mention legal stuff David? Are you still in the matrimonial home?
How does your W react when you mention legal stuff David? Are you still in the matrimonial home?
Yes, I'm still in the M home. W left and took the kids.
I know she took M cert when she left 2.5 months ago and gave it to her L. W said we could go to mediation and she said it in a very threatening way but she hasn't yet started it. A reason could be that I have a very good chance of having custody of the kids.
4 weeks ago we spent hours together at an event, W mentioned to me that she wanted D and "a clean break" but hadn't wanted to say yet as it would hurt me. She then took her stuff from the house. The kids then told me that W wanted the M home to be sold.
W is now away with kids and IL until next Sunday so I'm expecting D papers to be served any day as you get a week to reply to them and I think she will want to be away when it happens. If not, then I'm expecting papers to be served when W has finished hiding her money from a D (and according to W she's getting through it quickly).
Have you decided if you will contest or not? What would her reasons likely be?
Have you decided if you will contest or not? What would her reasons likely be?
I don't know.
If she serves you will have 5 weeks to decide. It is usual for the petitioner to present a draft to the respondent first before filing. Otherwise you could be looking at all kinds of nasty and exaggerated lies painting you as a terrible person. That is what I am expecting.
I received my draft petition about two weeks. My solicitor said it was one of the most mildly worded she’d ever seen, but it was still full of downright lies and exaggerations. But from what I understand it is incredibly costly to contest- thechal who recently successfully had his wife’s petition thrown out of court was a millionaire, which I’m sadly not.
I'm having a bad day today. I am already missing W and kids and won't see them again for more than a week. They have gone where I had been planning to take the kids and will be having a great time without me.
I still hope a lot that we can get back together but under the circumstances I shouldn't have any hope.
I feel your pain David - my W has been away for a week with our kids, on the family holiday we booked three months ago. They aren’t back for another six days and she is moving out next Saturday.
My first wife was tragically killed 14 yrs ago and in all honesty the pain I’m feeling now it worse because of the hurt, anxiety, unanswered questions , plain nastiness and lack of sympathy from W
The only thing keeping me in any way together is exevrcising - so I’m going on a long bike ride now.
Stay strong
I am really struggling today. I went out and was extremely depressed.
I'm not the one in the wrong and yet I am the one to lose everything, my wife, my kids, my home. I want us to be a proper family again. I want them back home.
David, are you following the advice given to you on this site? What are you doing today to make yourself feel better. I understand you are missing your children and everyone here can feel your pain. So now its time for you! Find something to do right now, and no do not go out drinking. What activities do you like?
Its prob around 8pm where you live... go see a movie even if you have to go by yourself. Step up your life... do things....
You cannot sit in self pity.
Find an inner peace that takes your mind of your sitch, you will start to feel better each and everyday.
What started it off today was that I went to make some space on the answer phone. There were messages from the day W left. Firstly about taking the car to a garage that morning. It was a lie. I played it back several times listening to her lying. The next message was from later in the day when she said "I can't cope anymore" and how she intended that I would still be able to see the kids in the future.
I later treated myself to a purchase, although buying it was an ordeal.
I then walked for several miles. The whole time it kept going through my head that before W left she was telling me in bed that we were soul-mates and yet I now know she'd already been planning a D from me. I can't get my head around how cruel that was.
What started it off today was that I went to make some space on the answer phone. There were messages from the day W left. Firstly about taking the car to a garage that morning. It was a lie. I played it back several times listening to her lying.
You know full well that you should just erase those messages, you heard them once and continued to play them back searching for answers to questions that you already have your answer. Erase them NOW, not later, NOW! Stop looking for some secret link that will reconnect you with your W. Your life is worth living right now. Take the time and find what you like. Whatever she is doing is unimportant to you...
I later treated myself to a purchase, although buying it was an ordeal.
Are you complaining about something trivial? What could go wrong with purchasing something? Listen David, its time to stand up and fight for yourself. That does not mean that you have to be nasty in any way it means that whatever reason your W has for leaving does not matter anymore and you will be happy with or without her. You can choose to wallow and curl up in a ball... its your choice...pick one...
I then walked for several miles. The whole time it kept going through my head that before W left she was telling me in bed that we were soul-mates and yet I now know she'd already been planning a D from me. I can't get my head around how cruel that was.
Ok so you need validation that she lied straight up to you, that in her mind at the time you were her soulmate, well guess what? not anymore. She doesnt feel that way right now, that does not mean she cant change her mind, but and this is a big but, you need to do the work. Go GET A LIFE... Geez its been talked about on this site ad nauseam, and the reason is because it works.
I can't get my head around how cruel that was.
The truth here is so simple.
You are feeling like sh*t because life isn't going the way you believe it should go.
i.e because your a nice guy then you should get a second chance or something.. life isnt like that. this isnt a fairy tale. She doesnt want to be with you anymore. Accept it and move on.
The sooner you accept that and start taking advise from here the better because your posts dont reflect that of someone who is completely accepting what is coming.
My XW told me I was her rock, she couldn’t imagine her life without me and the kids, I was great father, great provider, a good man but she left. It will make sense but as B suggested you must accept and move forward. There are many things in this world that people never understand or get answers to. Why should you be any different? The quicker you accept and move forward the sooner you healing process will begin.
I went to breakfast this morning with my XW and daughters......it was nice but it doesn’t mean [censored]. Don’t read into anything and keep moving.
I had a really tough life before meeting W so I really do know how hard life can be and what it takes to get through it.
Even just a few years ago my father was in hospital dying of cancer. During that time, his partner was being extra nice to me sat around his bed, but I later found out that during lunch breaks she had been going to banks taking his money so I didn't inherit anything at all. My W knew how much that hurt me but has doing much the same thing. It may even have given her the idea to do it.
I am receiving professional help who are amazed at how calm I am. Everyone has said the same of me. It is taking an enormous amount of self-control.
W has now taken the kids away for a break (and is aware that I want to do the same). W sent a text saying how they are doing and what they have planned later. She's never done that before. It also says she will get the kids to give me a call. She doesn't do that either.
There was no question asked so it might be best if I don't reply? At the moment, I feel like telling her to leave me alone.
W has now taken the kids away for a break (and is aware that I want to do the same). W sent a text saying how they are doing and what they have planned later. She's never done that before. It also says she will get the kids to give me a call. She doesn't do that either.
There was no question asked so it might be best if I don't reply? At the moment, I feel like telling her to leave me alone.
Do not reply and get on with your day.
What are you doing today to GAL?
I won't reply. Someone said to me that I should do, but I won't.
I didn't feel upset when I woke up today. I went for a walk, got some great healthy food and drinks, will look at travel options to visit a freind for a few days, tidy-up at home, sleep.
I have found somewhere that does kayak lessons and hire so I'm interested in having a go at that later in the summer.
Maybe you could say "OK" or "great", just nothing lengthy obviously.
I feel like she offered for you to talk to the kids without prompting. To me, saying nothing is not reinforcing "good" behavior. If this were a business deal and I offered to call someone and they didnt reply, I would assume they werent interested.
I would have said something like "sounds good. I can be free between XXX and YYY and would love to talk to them. Let me know once you have a more concrete plan."
On another note, I have a question/comment for you to consider. Ive noticed that when you get advice that doesnt necessarily jive with what you already plan, you take a very strong defensive stance. For example, many have recommended that you see a lawyer about your custody arrangement, and from what I can see, you still havent taken that step. Rather, you defend why your way is the correct path. Im wondering your intent for getting advice but rejecting the ideas that dont match your original plan. You dont need to answer. Just something Ive noticed on the last 20 pages of posts.
Initially, when W left, I'd thought we'd soon get back together. W was coming up to me to give big hug greetings and we were having more time out together as a family than usual etc. so I didn't think there was a need to get legal advice.
I was then shocked as W tried to get me into trouble with the police (she said she'd never been happy being with me) and I had to deal with legal people for that. It went nowhere and W then said she was sorry for doing that.
I then realised that W had been planning D months before leaving. Getting through each day was tough. I was in shock and didn't feel able to talk to a L. I got to see the kids about 20 times last month inc. school events. W even bought a ticket for me at another event.
I think W lost respect for me and was jealous because I had been the main carer for the kids. I thought it would be good for W to see what hard work it can be, and then she might be more respectful... but she's got her parents to do all that hard work.
W seems only interested in having fun days out with the kids. I've started doing fun days out with the kids - I don't know why but that seems to have lured W into wanting to come into the house.
My next move was to take the kids on a break once W returns with them but I've also got an idea to suggest that the kids spend the rest of their school holidays with me during the daytime as W will be out at work. I don't see why the kids should be with IL so much rather than W or I. It won't look good if W refuses.
Feeling down at the moment. Nearly 3 months have passed and W hasn't shown me any signs of R. Communication etc. has only been about the kids.
I think she will go for D as soon as she's finished hiding her money. It feels so brutal.
I think she will go for D as soon as she's finished hiding her money. It feels so brutal.
You are mind reading...
I think my W will....What your W does it out of your control, you can only control you. Did you go out and do anything today? Prob not that is why you are feeling down. Get up dust yourself off and get out and do something. Make a list of things to do and follow through with them. No one said this is easy, and its not but you can do this.
Feeling down at the moment. Nearly 3 months have passed and W hasn't shown me any signs of R. Communication etc. has only been about the kids.
I think she will go for D as soon as she's finished hiding her money. It feels so brutal.
Do you actually ignore everything people are telling you?
She will go for divorce.
She will take your money.
Do you understand this?
Its bizzarre that you seem totally separate from reality here.
Stop wallowing and do something about it because waiting is doing you no favours at all
I think she will go for D as soon as she's finished hiding her money. It feels so brutal.
You are mind reading...
I think my W will....What your W does it out of your control, you can only control you. Did you go out and do anything today? Prob not that is why you are feeling down. Get up dust yourself off and get out and do something. Make a list of things to do and follow through with them. No one said this is easy, and its not but you can do this.
bhappy2, I know W was hiding money (taking about 5k per month in cash from machines) from a D even when we were together. After we split she bragged to me that she was still doing it. W also said she would be paying a lot of rent to live with her parents (which of course they could pay back to her after D). The kids even say she gets a lot of cash-back whenever shopping. W has also bragged about planning to take her pension very early. W had kept the hiding of money secret, but then lied, and then became a big mouth bragging about it to me when her lies fell-apart. It's safe to assume that she plans to go for D as soon as enough of her money is hidden. She also isn't spending money on house things where she's living (they could be considered in a D). She is even sleeping on a floor with no bed despite having a lot of money.
Have you got a solicitor? I really think you need to retain the best one you can afford or at the very least get some initial advice on where you stand. She is really rubbing your nose in it isn’t she? Time to get tough I think.
bhappy2, I know W was hiding money (taking about 5k per month in cash from machines) from a D even when we were together. After we split she bragged to me that she was still doing it. W also said she would be paying a lot of rent to live with her parents (which of course they could pay back to her after D). The kids even say she gets a lot of cash-back whenever shopping. W has also bragged about planning to take her pension very early. W had kept the hiding of money secret, but then lied, and then became a big mouth bragging about it to me when her lies fell-apart. It's safe to assume that she plans to go for D as soon as enough of her money is hidden. She also isn't spending money on house things where she's living (they could be considered in a D). She is even sleeping on a floor with no bed despite having a lot of money.
Get yourself in counceling immediately, you need to sort through these issues one by one. I am afraid you are getting more and more depressed as time goes on. The good news is that there is help for you if you chose to seek it. The choice is yours, you either seek help or not, I can guarentee you that the path you are on will be filled with a life of misery and what-ifs.
You can take control of your life if you want. It will take time but you can do it.
Your W is cake eating and taking great pleasure in tormenting you, why would you allow that? Its time to step up your game/life, that does not mean you hit the ground going 100mph it means you take life day by day and start to heal. It means you enjoy a coffee/tea and listen to some music. It means you start to live for you. You are getting a tremendous amount of great advice on this site but it seems you would rather focus on negativity. This is something you need to discuss with a councelor... it works.
David, everyone here wants you to succeed, but you have to help yourself first.
Detachment is not easy we are here to help...lets do this together.
I have some counselling support visiting me every couple of days and they have arranged for me to see a top pro tomorrow for the first time.
Yes, time to get tough. I need to get legal stuff started. I don't know who is good and who isn't.
I only have 2 people I can talk with about this and neither live anywhere near to me so I do feel very isolated, so thanks everyone, I really do need all the support and advice I can get. It means a lot.
Keep your chin up, be strong and keep paying here. Lots of great advice and smart people on here I think.
Please start a new thread. You have reached the 100 reply/posting limit for this one. Thanks!
I really do need all the support and advice I can get. It means a lot.
David,
If this is the case why do you come to a forum for advice then constantly ignore the advise given?
You were being told about legal support right at the start but ignored most things and continued with this fantasy- while you continue to get shafted financially. Not for the first time either it seems.
Ill let the others take over from here as there is nothing more i can say.
It definately seems you are more eager to tell us stories of how badly you have been treated rather than help yourself. The situation you are in now is a direct result of that.
Your responses and posts show exactly why you are probably easy to take advantage of. But you have allowed that. Thats your responsibility.
You can teach a horse to go to water.. but you certainly cant make it drink.
Good luck.