Re: Moving past the WAW to a stronger me Pt. 3

previous threads

1st thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2788756&page=1

2nd thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2799159&page=1

3rd thread http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...1955&page=1

It is hard to believe that I am up to my 4th thread on here. I guess it goes to show how much I have relied on this community for support over the past two months. So many people have taken an interest and reached out in positive ways (and sometimes with a 2x4) all with goal of helping me. It is sort of incredible when you think about. Complete strangers on the internet helping one another through one of the most difficult situations in life without any compensation other than the knowledge that they are helping and actually making a difference in someones life. So many people here have helped me, but especially Maika, Vanilla, Cadet, Ste7e, Steve, LoneWolf, Nicole, Joseph (and I am sure that I am missing others). Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I can honestly say that I dont know where I would be right now if not for the help, guidance, and support that I received here.

I am still out on the West Coast, for another 4 nights before I start my long trek back. 3.5 weeks into an 8 week trip. My body is tired of driving so much, it is tough at times to adjust to the lack of a routine. I generally love to eat out, but after 3 weeks straight it gets tiresome and it is hard to eat as healthy as I would like. Physically I feel tired and falling apart a bit. This is my 4th straight night in the same bed which is a nice break, but I still struggle to sleep more than 6 hours.

I am a bit disappointed in myself in terms of the work I am doing. I have not been practicing yoga nearly as much. I have not been journaling my emotions nearly as much. I have not been reading my self-help books nearly as much. The weight of travel as well as the desire to spend as much of my time here with my friends has cut into my motivation. I think also as I lose more and more hope in my sitch (good for detachment) my motivation wanes. Obviously this is misguided as the changes are for me, not for the W or the R, but it is real. I think I need to push back more against this. I do still struggle to know when to push back and resist and when to gently, compassionately accept and lean in.

I am trying to live in the moment and enjoy them for what they are. To enjoy the beauty of looking out over the Puget Sound, or the excitement of watching World Cup soccer. My thoughts eventually tug me back into the reality of my situation, but I do enjoy the escapes. But arent they just as real as my situation? Isnt it just opening myself up to the reality of this very moment? I still struggle to identify what is a "distraction" from my sitch and what is just healthy, joyous, mindful living.

One worry that does intrude upon my consciousness is how I will react to returning home. I will be back in a little over a month, and I keep picturing the house half-empty after my W has taken out all of her things, the clothes in our marriage bedroom, the plants throughout the house, the desk/computer in her office, the decorations that marked our life together. I am sure that it will be an emotional moment to return to an empty house (of course our beloved dog will be there to greet me). It will be the biggest 2x4 across the back of my head. I am not sure if it is healthy to keep picturing it and preparing myself for it or best to banish those thoughts and deal with them when I have to, i.e. when I get back.
_________________________

Davide, Good to hear from you again. My thoughts are you are on this trip for you enjoy likes precious moments. Make these memories for you to cherish. Bask in the moment of healing and growth. As for when you get home - My S said to my W once in a therapy session the best way to deal with fear is to go thru it. I feel you are well on your journey. I wish you much success!!

Being present and mindful is EXACTLY what you should be doing. Do not think of it as an escape or distraction.

Also, there is no getting around that there is indeed an element of DBing that is literally for the potential benefit of the relationship and to give it a better chance of reconciliation - hence Divorce Busting. But those are just some of the possible side effects and all one can do is hold some hope that the spouse eventually comes around, yet be sure in the knowledge that even if they do not, you are going to be okay!

Quote:

the best way to deal with fear is to go thru it.

Absolutely. The fear is often more paralyzing than the actual event or even the consequences.

My question is how much I should be facing and leaning into now, as opposed to waiting, not worrying about the future and dealing with it when it comes time to dealing with it. Its more a question of timing in my head.

Good to know you are having a good trip Davide. Remember not all of us due to various reasons are able to step away from our sitches and change the scene to put things into perspective. I feel when you are too close to home and walking through the memory lanes every day detachment becomes that much harder. Reading through your trips brought some old memories of the same places I visited over the years with WAH, well there is always some tinge of pain I guess.
The opportunity you have in being able to stay away and make new memories for yourself is precious. Hope you make the most of it and when you get back you are stronger and ready to go face first into your sitch.

Arsh,

Thanks. You are absolutely right that it is a privilege to be able to take this trip right now. I am reconnecting with friends that I haven't seen in years and seeing new and beautiful places. Detachment does become easier in this context, no doubt.

That said, when you talk about old memories and tinges of pain, that hit me hard today. I accidentally wandered in a park to a spot where my W and I spent a wonderful evening at a friend's wedding 5 years ago. It raised all kinds of sadness and nostalgia. I had to go back and look at one of my favorite photos of the two of us from that night with the Space Needle behind us. I had a very cathartic cry in the car as I let the emotions flow through me. I have frequently had brief pangs of nostalgia and sadness, but this was the first full-on breakdown in a while. Luckily I was going to speak with a close friend afterwards and was able to talk through it with him and get a nice long hug, which I was starved for.

Davide crying is your best defense just get it all out

Thanks Ste7e. It definitely felt cathartic.

Today was a rougher day probably because I didnt sleep as well. Lots of memories and flashbacks popping up in my head. Plus I was leaving the relative safety and comfort of Seattle where I had two very close friends for the next stop. My mind didnt really settle until I got to a climbing gym in Portland and got to work climbing. It is a strange form of exercise, but mentally it is great as a challenge and a way to focus. It is complete mindfulness up on the wall.

It was once I had moved on and forgotten about my sitch that I unexpectedly got a text from the W - 2nd communication in 4 weeks - "I hope you are doing well." My thought is to respond tomorrow saying simply, "great, thanks" I figured I would reach out here first to take my 2x4s.

Hi Davide, they say the only way around the pain is through it and youre definitely allowing yourself to feel it and sit with it and thats really good for the healing process even though it feels really really bad. Try not to torture yourself too too much with pictures and such.
Ya know, it just [censored] that out of the blue they send these dang one liners. Invade your head space uninvited. It frustrates me to see that happen to you right now. I dont even know if Id respond. She didnt ask you a question, just a statement. Just let it be I think, thats my thought on it.

Glad youre getting some exercise and finding some peace with climbing, sounds helpful. Maybe ill give it a try, they have a climbing gym here and my older two would probably love to go with me.

I can sit and speculate for a number of reasons why she sent you that text, but it is a dead end really because you will never know for sure. Don't reply to it and let it sit. It does suck when they reach out to you exactly when you're trying to heal and figure yourself out. You don't need to hear from them.

I actually wasnt speculating very much at all. I put it away and went and met with a friend and had a wonderful evening biking around Portland. Each time it seems to affect me less and less.

That said, why ignore it? I wouldnt ignore a message like that from anyone else in my life.

Because it's not a question and it's not a business related issue. It's just a small hook to get you to respond to her. There is no reason for you to do it. You're too busy enjoying your life and doing your things to respond to something like that. She wanted to send you good wishes and you go them. If she wanted to have a conversation about something, she can do that instead of using this approach - not that she wants to, but I am just saying.

You're not ignoring her, but using smart communication. She walked out and doesn't want to do anything with you and the marriage, but then sends a message like that. It could be guilt, regret, genuine caring, who knows. It doesn't matter. You're on your path.

I don't think you replying something like 'Thanks for the message' is going to hurt your chances for anything in the long run. It's more about doing less for her and being NC/dark so you can handle your business. These messages invariably make the LBS think about everything and puts them in a bad mental spot when they're trying to move forward.

Again, it's not a big deal if you respond, I just think it's better if you don't.

I think an I am doing great, thanks is an appropriate response. Short and simple and neutral.

I agree do not respond
If it were a question then yeah maybe
Act as if she is dead
Remain focused on you
Sorry but this is the new normal
Learn to love it
Learn to love you
When she actually changes to want to be with you now you would know

Ok. I am hearing you guys loud and clear. It does feel off to me, especially since the last time we communicated I told her that it doesnt bother me to hear from her... seems like mixed messages on my part.

But it does bother you, that's my point. And it would bother me too. There are so many why questions that come up and can send the LBS in an endless loop.

Saying to her that it doesn't bother you to hear from her is on the same philosophical ground of people saying 'I will always love you as you're the mother of my children' / 'I will be there for you as you're the mother of my children' etc etc. It communicates that you're okay being Plan B. I am not saying that it was your intention to do that at all, I am just saying how it can be perceived.

But more than that, you're not being honest and good to yourself by saying it doesn't bother you. You don't have to tell her to not contact you or anything, but stay true to yourself. Accept that it bothers you and then figure out how to move forward.

I will be honest and say that my approach to NC/Dark is on the tougher side of the spectrum. Any small crumb can get the LBS go down a spiral with no end.

I would rephrase whatever it is you're trying to do as - 'Is this going to help me in my healing journey?'

Davide, do not respond. The way I see it she knows you still want R, want to keep the MR, work on yourself, still desperately love her and she is the WAS that left you. It is either guilt or pity, you dont need either right now you are better than that. If it was genuine affection or love she would come back clearly with more. She is the one treating you like a friendly neighbor now. Write on a piece of paper, I was doing quite well and healed until you bothered me again and either shred or burn that paper and GAL some more. Sorry there is a raging fire in my belly today about my own sitch so I am feisty
-Arshi

Ya I feel totally confused, and she didn't even text me. I have no clue and that would send me reeling.

I just want to know WTF she is thinking.

D- I can see both sides to this conversation. My heart tells me to respond to show communication is still open but my head is telling me to be still acknowledge-and let it be. Definitely a tough call. We are with you - you got this!

Thanks,

I didnt/havent responded. It doesnt really warrant it, I guess. As I get closer to coming back we will have to communicate to set logistics up, so there will be plenty of opportunity for that, I think.

I am in beautiful Crater Lake National Park right now. Yesterday, egged on by the friend I am visited, I leapt 15 feet off a rock into the 56 degree water. A year ago I would never have dared it. I like the shifts that I am making and the person I am becoming. Less fearful. More mindful, capable of living in silence. The friend that I visited in Portland was a great role model for me in that regard - very grounded, centered, mindful. He is able to sit in silence and just be good with himself. He just reinvented his live, moving out to the west coast without a job, and he has gone about it in a very deliberate way. I want to be like that.

I'm talking to my dad right now. Good to catch up with the parents.

Evidently W called them yesterday for the first time since BD in April. She talked to my dad for about 25 minutes. He said she felt guilty and lonely, she missed talking to them. It is interesting that she called them now, just after texting me. But I will brush it off like the proverbial duck shaking water off its back.

This is reality kicking in for her! There has to be an experience of loss for them to have a change of heart and see what they have done, and it may lead to recon, but not always. With you being out of the picture and NC, she is sitting with herself and all what she's done.

This is a good sign that you are doing things right. Not that it will lead to recon, but that she's now realizing the realities of her path and she has to contend with that on her own alone. What she does with it, time will tell. So, don't backslide and just keep moving forward for yourself.

This is a somewhat good sign. I pray for the best Davide!

I dont really see it as a sign of anything. My W was very very close with my dad. They may have talked more often than he and I did. She also has been wracked with guilt about the breakup since BD, so I dont see this as anything new. All of her family is out of the country so it makes sense that she adopted mine. However, it did get me thing about the R which isnt great. I will shrug it off and be fine in a bit, but the thoughts are flying fast right now.

I think it is a good sign Davide, may be the guilt but it is still a sign that shows you that she is not all sorted out either. Your trip is a boon to you. Did she actually tell your dad she is guilty or lonely or did he infer it from the convo he had with her?

Originally Posted By: Davide

I dont really see it as a sign of anything.

Very good.

It is completely irrelevant what she is doing.

This the Davide show.

A show she may want to buy a ticket to at some point in the future, however if you keep on the right path, you might even surprise yourself by moving so far forward, that you see her as a step back.

Keep strong and keep going... long long road ahead.

But you will be better in the end

Benito,

Thanks for checking in! I appreciate it. I have a question about your sitch that isnt clear in your most recent posts. You mention being depressed to the point of having suicidal thoughts, but then it is clear that you transitioned to recovering and even augmenting your self-worth. Can you comment any more on how you made that transition? (I wish we had your old threads!)

A little journaling

Driving nearly 12 hours is interesting, as I definitely get into a flow with it. I did the first 6 plus hours basically without stopping. Podcasts about sports, Italian, This American Life, took up the majority of the time, as well as a book on tape. I did spend a good half hour or more at one point in silence. Part of that time I did some light meditation, concentrating on my breathing and the sensations and sights around me. The final two hours I listened to music to break it up. Once again, I got emotional while singing along and listening to music - it seems to draw the emotion out of me. Somehow on my Spotify playlist "Under Pressure" by Freddy Mercury and David Bowie came on not once but twice. Each time I sang along and ended up in tears as I got to the following part

Can't we give ourselves one more chance
Why can't we give love that one more chance
Why can't we give love give love give love give love
...
And love dares you to care for
The people on the edge of the night
And loves dares you to change our way of
Caring about ourselves
This is our last dance

Obviously it made me think about W and the failed R. However, the last part also spoke to me - how love forces us to change how we care for ourselves, and how this is our last dance. I'm certainly working on changing how I care for myself. I hope it is motivated by love. Certainly failed love, but hopefully something more than that. Perhaps some deeply buried love for myself.

The past few days have been really nice. In Portland I really got to know a friend in a deep way. We had only casually known each other for 4 months in xxxxxxx before he moved out here, but he was very much a role model for me. At Crater Lake, my friend goes back to my days in xxxxxx as we met before I even knew W, but he visited the two of us a lot in xxxxxxx as he has family there. So, it was a much more established relationship, and someone who knew both W and me very well. In fact, he visited about a month after the separation and was helpful to me then as well. He is a great listener and a compassionate friend. He also encouraged (peer-pressured) me into leaping 15 feet off a rock into the 56 degree water of Crater Lake. I was happy to take that as an opportunity to once again face my fear, in this case of heights and frigid water, head-on. I am proud of myself for the way that I am dealing with those fears rather than avoiding or denying them.

I continue to work on practicing gratitude. I feel very lucky to have been able to spend so much time with good friends over the past few weeks, culminating in the final few days. More than the exotic locales, or the adventures, it is the quality time with these people that I value most and am most grateful for. I have tried to take advantage of the opportunity to really talk honestly and make myself vulnerable to these people that I trust, and the response has been really positive. I hope that I can continue to form stronger bonds when I am back in xxxxxxx, as that is something that has been missing from my life there.

For me personally I always had low self esteem. A lack of self worth. I didnt know this at the time, but my behaviours and the way I would act would always be seeking validation outside of myself.

When I lost the main person who gave me the validation i.e. the Wife, my whole world fell down not only because she validated me on a personal level, but also how it looked to the outside world as well.

For example, If I meet an old school friend and he has a nice house, pretty wife - there will be part of me that thinks - He must be an ok guy.. Otherwise how would he had been able to achieve the things he has.

So when I lost mine, it was a double whammy because not only did my wife not want to be with me anymore, but it validated all of the things that my parents made me feel for so long i.e. that I was not good enough.

As humans, we are all the same. The only thing that is different from me to you, is our experiences in life and how we interpret them. Rather than seeing an event in life a singular thing, that comes and goes, and thats it - many of us put that in our mental suitcase and carry it around with us for the rest of our lives. The problem with that is - if your self esteem is quite low - you can get into a subconscious routine of always doing certain things to validate how you feel - and you get stuck in a non productive cycle - enough though it might feel totally natural or normal for you to do so.

The key for me personally was to understand that despite how I interpreted the world - the world didnt give a f**k about my sob stories. Time was moving on regardless. Everyday that went by focusing on what I didnt have, and why my wife had left etc.. Was another day wasted that I could not get back.

So I started to read the Happiness Advantage by Shawn Anchor - which identifies that living life through a positive mindset allows your brain to perform at a higher level. So rather than working hard to complete a job to get that happy feeling at the end.. You reverse the process so you would be happy at the beginning which would allow you to do a better job in the first place.

Any progress will come from a place of gratitude. If you are thinking about how sh*t your life is and thinking about why me? - then you are trying to ski uphill.

If you write on a piece of paper all the things you are grateful for i.e your health, your passion for football, your ability to draw/design, the love you have with your dog - i.e. things that you are truly grateful for and read then each morning before you get up (and truly feel the gratitude) it puts you in such a different mind set to approach the day its unreal.

A lot of people on here who are hurt from their wives leaving - a lot of time has nothing to do with how great the relationship is, its more to do with dealing with the feeling of rejection and inadequacy. So they struggle to try and get that relationship back to fill that hole - rather than get it back because that person was right for them.

Its easy when you have been hurt to try and get a quick fix/response to counteract that pain - but if you are able to just exist not go searching to avoid the pain, 6 months in, and you start to become more accustomed to yourself, your mind, your emotions, what you like, and what you dont like. You start to have a relationship with yourself. I promise you (this isnt hippy nonsense) but that feeling is worth more than any relationship you will ever experience.

Then you will NOT need to come to a board for advise - you will be so confident in your ability to manage yourself that the answer will flow into you naturally and you can take on the world with confidence while being true to yourself - and you will find new people will find that attractive without you even trying - you get more for trying less. The more yourself you truly are - the more you attract. The more you try to be happy or do the things that people suggest to be happy - there more you get lost.

D- so happy that you are experiencing some incredible things on this trip along with great interactions with some wonderful people. I have witnessed some growth and healing in your sitch and wish you continued success. Your posts always seem to trigger a certain level of depth which helps others like me grasp and retain concepts better. Thank You!

Benito(Mr Miyagi)this is LoneWlf(Danielson). Thank you for the many lessons (Wax on- wax off). To hear actual words of enlightenment from "the master" is very inspiring. I also want to comment on your BLUNT-to the point- explanations. Although very hard to hear -it strikes to the heart of the matter -on point with no sugar coating. Thank you for your continued lessons and support of this board!

Originally Posted By: LoneWlf

D- so happy that you are experiencing some incredible things on this trip along with great interactions with some wonderful people. I have witnessed some growth and healing in your sitch and wish you continued success. Your posts always seem to trigger a certain level of depth which helps others like me grasp and retain concepts better. Thank You!

Benito(Mr Miyagi)this is LoneWlf(Danielson). Thank you for the many lessons (Wax on- wax off). To hear actual words of enlightenment from "the master" is very inspiring. I also want to comment on your BLUNT-to the point- explanations. Although very hard to hear -it strikes to the heart of the matter -on point with no sugar coating. Thank you for your continued lessons and support of this board!

Thank you.

Honestly, hand on heart- it is no problem what so ever.

I have been there and try to give the advise I would have wanted with hindsight in my situation.

Alot of advise on here is great, I just find (from a personal level) that some people are more interested stopping the pain happening - rather than understand that the pain isn't necessarily the breakdown of the relationship, but the pain of feeling inadequate afterwards. So people chase the wrong things to fill the wrong gaps. And that (in my opinion) is were people don't get the results or just continue to spin their wheels.

A relationship in any form should compliment us - not make us.

Thanks as always Benito.

You are absolutely correct, of course, about cultivating a relationship with oneself and learning to love oneself and realize that you are enough. It is hard and uncomfortable work. I have spent most of my 40 years avoiding that type of self-reflection and introspection because I was vaguely aware or, at the very least, afraid that I wouldnt like what I would find, that I was inadequate, or incompetent. Silences used to bother me and I would fill them at all costs with noise, music, conversation, or even thoughts. I wonder how true that is for a lot of people, more common than you would think is my thought.

I am cultivating a mindfullness practice and learning to live in the moment. Beyond that I have found that taking some time each day to be in silence with myself is a positive strategy, to sit with myself and look at myself without judgement but also without avoiding the tough questions. There is still a gap between the intellectual knowledge that I am enough, that I am loveable and full of love - and feeling that course through my veins in an undeniable expression of truth. It is like when you talk about gratitude - when I really feel it and am not simply going through the motions it generates a physical response. I can feel it and know it is real.

You talk about the pain being related to the feeling of inadequacy afterwards, and I agree (to an extent.) I think the feeling of inadequacy, at least in my case, clearly predated the relationship. The relationship propped me up artificially and helped raise me out of the mire of those feelings. Unfortunately, those external supports are never as strong as building a better emotional structure within. There is no replacement for loving and valuing yourself.

btw Benito, I would love to get more reading recommendations if you have them.

Originally Posted By: Davide

It is hard and uncomfortable work. I have spent most of my 40 years avoiding that type of self-reflection and introspection because I was vaguely aware or, at the very least, afraid that I wouldnt like what I would find, that I was inadequate, or incompetent. Silences used to bother me and I would fill them at all costs with noise, music, conversation, or even thoughts. I wonder how true that is for a lot of people, more common than you would think is my thought.

This! This! This!

It is the same for 98% of people! I promise you.

People may have things that stop them from facing it - such as a functional marriage, or good children or a decent career... but it is always there. From being a child our greatest fear is being alone. As an adult we have 30 years of coping mechanisms that cloud us. Once they fall away i.e. marriage - we feel lost and desperate. But its a false image - we are enough. Just takes a few years to trust yourself again - but as you say its painfully hard because its not the reality we are used to. But make no mistake it is reality.

I will send you those books in a hour or so when i get home.

The way you are speaking now in the last post fills me with confidence. That's exactly where you need to be.

Quote:

There is no replacement for loving and valuing yourself.

AMEN! IMO this is the single most important thing to learn if you want to move forward. You don't need anyone but yourself and don't allow your WAW the satisfaction of believing she has that power. She is the one who is weak.....F that.

Imma add myself to the chorus of AMENs here!! There is absolutely no replacement for self-worth, self-love, confidence, and internal validation. It is all really hard work, but it does come. I'll add self-discipline to that as well. Jocko Willink has been kicking my a$$ when it comes to that and I am working on it every day. Tough stuff but small increments of progress.

Codependant No More - Melanie Beattie
The Happiness Advantage - Shawn Anchor
Dont sweat the small stuff - Richard Carlson

I guess Whitney Houston said it best when she sang- "Learning to Love Yourself- Is the Greatest Love of All!!! - This is what we all have to Learn!! Happy to be part of this tribe!!

Always love reading Benito's posts! Glad to see you're still around Benny!

I feel really lucky that Benito has taken an interest in my sitch. He always has great insights.

V, are you still around? You were a life-saver early on but I havent heard from you recently.

A little more journaling:

Today I arrived in Moab and Arches National Park. The word awesome has lost much of its power, but the sheer scale and beauty of Arches is awesome in the truest sense of the word. It provokes a feeling of awe and amazement that grabs your soul. I just kept exclaiming "Holy sh@t" over and over again. Gratitude for being here mixed with a feeling of connectedness with the universe, with nature, with the eons that it took to form the cliffs, monoliths and arches. Of all the places I have seen in the world only the Grand Canyon has provoked a similar reaction in me. What a privilege to experience the wonders of the natural world like this.

I received some crazy advice at a bike store to go for a ride in the park at 3 p.m. despite the heat, since there is less traffic at that hour and it is safer for riding. I didnt realize how hot it was, nor how high (right around 5k feet), nor how up and down the ride was. Even on the way out of the 16 mile ride I had to stop repeatedly to catch my breath and drink from my camelback as the road rose steadily for over 5 miles. I had planned to do 20, but cut off short, which proved to be a wise decision. On the way back the final 2 miles were all a steady incline and I realized that I had used up all 3 liters of water in my camelback. I could taste the dryness in my mouth, my lungs were burning, and I started to feel dizzy from exertion even though I was stopping at every pull-over to catch my breath. When I saw a family parked in one of them I asked for some water and thankfully, they gave me a bottle. Even still, I had to stop and walk my bike a quarter mile up the hill and rest for another 5 minutes. When I finally crested the hill and got back to my car, I saw that it was 106 degrees outside! I cant remember the last time that I reached the ultimate limits of my body. Another mile or two and I feel like I would have passed out on the side of the road. The danger of the situation and the precariousness of my body in those extreme conditions was apparent.

It is amazing how an experience like that clarifies the mind. I wasnt worried about my sitch, or about becoming a better person or any of that. My mind was singularly focused on reaching my car, drinking water, resting in the AC. It was pure and utter mindfullness because the situation demanded nothing less. In a real sense it purified my mind, stripping out the inessential, the worries about the future or nostalgia for the past. It was about survival. I wouldnt recommend for anyone to put themselves in a similar situation, but I am thankful for the opportunity it presented (and for making it through it!)

More journaling.

Yesterday was a fabulous day. In the evening I went for a sunset hike on a very poorly marked trail that led to spectacular views. It was a bit sketchy and I was completely on my own - not a recipe for success, but I enjoyed taking the risk. Unfortunately, some distant thunderstorms began to draw closer (not what I was expecting in the desert of Utah), and the final straw was a loud clap of thunder as I had gone half a mile on a near cliffs edge, scrambling on stone and very loose soil. I decided that was not the place to get stranded during a thunderstorm so I hightailed it out of there and 2 miles (all uphill) back to the car. I got there just as the drops started to fall. It ended up being a spectacular storm to watch from the safety of a car.

Unfortunately it didnt cool down my campsite, which was at 84 degrees at 10 pm. It was sweltering in the tent, I opened the flaps that I could, but had to leave the rain cover on as it was intermittently doming down. I dont think that I slept more than 5 minutes the whole night. Eventually my thoughts, which had been positive all day turned dark and towards my sitch. I simply couldnt sleep.

Eventually I got up for good at quarter of five and set out in the car to get an early start on my sunrise hike. It was beautiful, but I was a zombie. Worse, my leg locked up on me in the last mile or so. No more hiking during my time here, which really [censored]. Now I am totally stressed, sleep-deprived, and anxious - its a toxic combination with which I am quite familiar. Its just a matter of getting through today and hopefully getting some sleep tonight. Ill take some NyQuill and hope that helps, but it is rough in the heat. The other option is leaving town a day early and renting a cheap motel room with AC.

Just gotta get through today.

D- Take it one day at a time - one foot in front of the other. I started the book that Benny suggested on the Happiness Advantage and it has a lot of good nuggets of information on there. You might want to check it out. You mention Stress- Sleep deprived and Anxious- triple threat. Concentrate on getting yourself better. Stay well!!

Thanks LoneWlf,

I realize that this is part of the roller coaster. I have been here before and know that it s@cks but that I can get through it. I just needed to vent here a little bit.

I actually got the Happiness Advantage yesterday as a downloaded audio book. I was planning on starting it as I travel tomorrow. Right now I am finishing up Rising Strong by Brene Brown. I like her emphasis on vulnerability and facing our fears and demons. It jives well with the CBT I have been working on with my therapist.

D- try reading brene's book on gifts of imperfections that one is good too!! Keep on goin!!

I have Daring Greatly on audio and I really liked it. Hard to be vulnerable even under normal circumstances let alone the circumstances many of us are faced with here. I always tend to feel anger when im hurt and I know that is a self defense mechanism specifically to avoid vulnerability.

Wow Davide! I'm glad you're enjoying the trip but please stay hydrated and take care of yourself! I do Crossfit and sometimes when it's 100+ (there's no A/C in the box) I feel my body start shutting down like that, if there's one thing I've learned at my advanced age it's LISTEN to what your body is saying

Better to stop and take a break than risk heat stroke or injury!

I feel like I reached a turning point out in the desert. I was camping for 2 nights alone and spent most of my waking hours alone as well. The beauty and majesty of the place really spoke to me. In the past I think the scale might have made me feel small or insignificant, but this time it made me feel connected to the universe, that I am a small part of the same story being written on the cliffs and rock formations. I dont remember the last time I felt as at peace with myself.

Previously on my trip, even when I was camping in Montana by myself, I was constantly striving for something to do - a hike to take, a book to read, a podcast to listen to. I still felt the need to be busy, to occupy my mind. But in Utah I was able to slow myself down and simply be with myself. I was enough. Of course, the spectacular scenery clearly helped put me in the right frame of mind. I was able to fall into a state of grace, feeling gratitude for the opportunity to be there, to gaze on such beauty, and simply gratitude for being alive. I felt balanced and centered, as if everything was in its correct place. I think what I was most happy about was the way that I was able to reach that state even yesterday, a day full of anxiety and nerves due to a lack of sleep. By the evening as I drove along the Colorado river with red rock cliffs looming on either side, I forgot about my worries and my sitch and simply appreciated the ride and awesome vista.

As I drove back through the gorgeous mountains and canyons of Colorado I maintained those feelings. I think that time alone in nature, away from the hustle and bustle of "real life" is probably crucial for reaching this state. As I drove into Denver and the chaos of city traffic and bad GPS directions began to press down on me I felt the same old anxiety start to creep up again. Thoughts about the future and about my sitch started to return and I could feel the tension in my gut and the quickening of my heart rate. What I need to do now is find a way to regain that state of grace while returning to the city, to my house, to my situation. My thought is that starting each day by vocalizing what I am grateful for is a start. A daily morning meditation or yoga practice as well. Luckily, there are beautiful woods right behind my school as well. After BD I spent my lunch hour walking the woods and listening to podcasts. I think that simply walking those trails in silence might be even more beneficial at this point. The next 10 days I will be far from home, but in the craziness of city-life with friends and work colleagues around. As good as it will be to spend time with them, I still want more practice cultivating the inner silence I found in the desert. Even right now, I am at a friends house, a friend I hadnt seen in 7 years, but I asked for a half an hour to come sit in quiet and write this reflection while it is still fresh in my mind.

Once again its good to read such an honest explanation of your thoughts and emotions.

That feeling of connectivness and clarity is YOU.

The feelings of anxiety what come back in from time to time is HABIT.

Don't let a random habit (that will continue to happen) make you feel that YOU are going backwards or you are slipping in some way.

They are TWO DIFFERENT entities and should not be mixed up That is one of the biggest mistakes that people make.

Emotions like anxiety are real.. but they arise from a physical sense. Not the spiritual sense of who you are. Not every physical emotion is a correct correlation to the situation you are in at that particular time.

Hope that makes some sense to you.

Fear. So much of what is holding me back from completing letting go is rooted in fear. There is certainly love as well and sadness, but I think the key is the fear. If I completely let go of the rope than I am adrift and left alone to find my own way in the dark. Of course I realize that I am already alone, that I am already in the dark, that I am already lost, but the mere presence of the rope, even if it leads me nowhere productive only back to a past that is already gone, is a comfort. I have practiced jumping off of heights into water, I have practiced sitting with myself in silence, I have practiced climbing walls higher than I ever would have dared, yet the final step has thus far eluded me. Perhaps these small steps are necessary along the way. This line of thought made me think back to one of my favorite books of all time "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien. In one of the final stories he writes about his cowardice and how he gave in and went to war.

Quote

Courage, I seemed to think, comes to us in finite quantities, like an inheritance, and by being frugal and stashing it away and letting it earn interest, we steadily increase our moral capital in preparation for that day when the account must be drawn down. It was a comforting theory. It dispensed with all those bothersome little acts of daily courage; it offered hope and grace to the repetitive coward; it justified the past while amortizing the future.

I don't want to be the repetitive coward anymore. I feel like I have lived most of my life like that. I just hope that these daily steps of confronting my fear will help.

A little journaling:

Right now I seem to be alternating good and bad days. My first night in Denver I couldn't sleep until 3 in the morning after taking NyQuil, it left me in an anxious and agitated state all day long as I struggled to focus on anything or be in the moment. In the evening I recovered a bit as I met up with some friends for some drinks and to catch up. The past two nights I have used some of the marijuana and it has really helped me sleep quite well. Given how important my sleep is to my sanity and state of mind I am going to continue with it for the time being.

Yesterday the friend I was staying with was out of town on a hike nearly all day long which left me alone again. I used it to catch up on my exercise routine - an hour of yoga, a trip to a rock climbing gym for an hour and a half, and then I took off on my bike to explore downtown Denver (in 99 degree heat) for 21 miles. It really felt great. Recently when I have been biking I haven't been listening to music or podcasts like I normally do, but just trying to appreciate the ride and the sights and the physical exertion. It's not exactly sitting in silence with myself, but it is more mindful.

Today I woke up more anxious. Perhaps it is because I watched "Coco" last night, which was all about the importance of family, and which provoked a good cry. (I thought it was really a very good movie despite being an animated kids film.) I have an 8.5 hour drive ahead of me, but am probably going to get a late start because I want to watch the World Cup final.

Just another check in. I just completed two straight days of 600 miles driving, so I am a bit exhausted. Today I was able to do some light meditation, focused breathing and awareness of my body and surroundings, while driving. In past days I did 20-30 minutes, but today I got to 30 minutes and was feeling good, so kept going for a full hour. No music, no distractions, just my own breathing and the rhythm of driving. I was supposed to talk to my IC today, but I was on the road and the phone connection didn't hold up. Unfortunately, he is now going on his own road trip and I don't know if I will be able to speak in person with him over the next 3 weeks. I already scheduled an appointment with a local one in my city to see in person when i get back, but given how fraught my return to the marriage-house is I would really like to have someone to talk to over the next few weeks.

I did however have an interaction with the W. First, I saw that she perused another one of my instagram stories. That was my first external reminder of her in 10 days or so. It definitely through me off at first, but I was able to shrug it off. I got back to listening to my book on tape which has gotten very interesting all of a sudden. Then, when I got in to my AirBnb in Cincy, I got an email from her. After saying that she hoped I was having fun on the trip, it was all business, talking about what she would like to take from the house and what she is thinking of leaving behind. At the end she also asked for my ETA and whether or not I wanted her to be there. It was pretty long and detailed. I just saw it 5 minutes ago, and it definitely took my breathe away just a bit, simply because we have been almost completely NC for the past month. It's nothing surprising, but still a bit hard to see in black white on the screen. I'm still clearly not at the point where it is water off a duck's back. I thought I was working towards that, but interactions definitely draw me back in. I am calm, but hurt and sad. It feels like another unwanted reminder of the reality of my situation. I guess I was going to have to confront that sooner or later anyway. At the very least, I feel like I am in a better situation to handle it than I would have been a month or two ago. I want to honor my emotional response, but also move past it. Hopefully I can meet up with some fellow conference goers tonight and grab a beer or otherwise distract myself.

I'll respond to the email tomorrow or the next day, all business. I'll let her know to take whatever she wants. The only thing I'll need to replace is the spare couch/bed for the 2nd bedroom. I'll also tell her that I have no idea of my ETA since I have no idea where I will be coming from at that point. I think it would probably be best if she isn't there, as that won't help my detachment either.

Re anxiety - my BD was a few weeks ago and since then I�ve had anxiety attacks (waking up 2-5 am and being unable to get back to sleep, with a fast heart rate and endless racing featful thoughts) I�ve been reading up on breathing techniques, which I�ve found very helpful indeed. Apparently it�s physiologically impossible to BBE breathing properly and to be anxious at the same time.

It can be as simple as :
Sit up straight and breathe in through your nose for about 3 seconds
Hold the breath for 3 seconds
Breathe out slowly as if you were slowing blowing up a balloon and gently close your eyes
Breathe normally for a few seconds
Repeat 4 times

You should notice a wave of calmness passing through your head

Best of luck

I am feeling incredibly down right now. Just alone and sad. I think the two straight days of 9 hours in the car took something out of me, combined with the recent contact. I haven't been exercising much at all since Saturday. That can't help. I am tired both physically and mentally. I just feel at the end of my rope. It's not the same anxiety as before, just physical and mental exhaustion.

I am at a conference with lots of sessions and other teachers to meet and talk to, but I am finding it exhausting to sit in a chair and pay attention for hour-long stretches at a time. I go into each session with a positive outlook and an intent to be mindful, but I quickly feel it slip away and my mind begins to wander. Last night I ate alone, which I have done plenty of on this trip, but I dread doing it again.

I talked to my IC for an hour which was fine, but not very productive in my opinion. Going through a "constructive problem solving" activity which I already knew the answers to was not very helpful. I realize that I lack patience, but on dark days like this I feel like I am spinning in circles and going nowhere.

I should be doing yoga right now, or driving out to a climbing gym, but that requires more energy than I have.

I remember people telling me here that I wasn't depressed before BD because I snapped out of it almost instantly into a high state of anxiety.

Well, the opposite has finally happened. I have left the anxiety-ridden state that I have been in for the last 3.5 months and have almost as quickly fallen back into depression. It literally happened almost overnight. My appetite which has been slowly returning has come back full-force as I feel compelled to eat nearly constantly (in an attempt to numb?) My energy for exercise is gone as is any pleasure that I derive from it. I forced myself on a bike ride yesterday evening, to do yoga for 30 minutes this morning, and to rock-climb this afternoon, and I more or less hated every minute of all of it. There wasn't even satisfaction for getting it done. I can't force myself to concentrate in the conference sessions I am in for more than 5 minutes, as I constantly distract myself online. I am listless. I have no desire to do anything. I see absolutely no future for myself nor do I really care to make an attempt to create one.

I have finally returned to the creature that drove my W away. It is pretty pathetic. With the benefit of retrospection I can see what an awful person to live with I must have been. I don't even want to live with myself like this. The worst part is that all of the positive changes that I thought I was making have evaporated into the ether. The positivity, the gratitude, the mindfullness - I can't summon any of it. I don't have the energy or desire. All of the bad habits I had, the numbing activities, the defeated attitude, they have all returned with a vengeance.

I question what brought this on. I had an interaction with the W, but I have had many of them, and this one was not particularly bad, just more of the same bad. Perhaps this is my reaction to finally giving up hope and accepting my MR and any hopes of R as a lost cause. Is this what happens when you let go of the rope and fall to the bottom of the abyss? I have returned to the city and to a conference full of people after spending much time alone in the desert, or with one solitary friend. I feel more lonely in this large group of people than I ever did in the desert. I can barely make myself talk to any of them and have dined alone 2/3 nights. Being around so many people in the state I am in makes me feel like a fraud or an impostor. My IC has gone on vacation and is not nearly as available any more. My posts on here go unanswered. I haven't spoken to family or friends in days, and feel no desire to call them in the state I am in. This is the black hole that sucked energy from my W until she couldn't take it anymore.

One day of wallowing I could handle, but now it is two in a row and I just feel like sh#t.

Davide stop wallowing in self pity, your W left you poor you and now you can�t hold it together. That too after the awesome break you got , going to one good place after another. Dude seriously snap out of it because nobody is coming to save you or help
Your posts don�t get answered ? Seriously have you ever seen how many vets take time out of their lives to advise all of us?
I have been there , through it all, realizing what a wretched person I must be to get dumped so unceremoniously, cried in public places, took D to a children�s birthday party where all the laughing people made me throw up, I literally did puke, cried until there really were no tears left anymore, contemplated ending my miserable existence thinking it won�t even make a difference. And then I saw the 2 innocent faces of my children and realized they need me, I thought about my parents and realized I make a difference to them, I still do this every single day.
We all have these days, some ups and most others down. Find what works for you, if you cannot find a single person who genuinely loves you, go get into some charity. You give so much love to those who were not even born as lucky as we were. Find what makes Davide tick, find a purpose outside of your MR
Our spouses don�t define us, we all come alone and go alone, everyone, every relationship in between are all just co passengers who travel with us part of the journey, how long that journey is with others is pre destined. Leave it all to the power beyond us, this too shall pass

hehe... that made me chuckle.

Good, I am glad

now let�s all go back to being awesome

Davide, don't be afraid to call family. Even if you just sob uncontrollably half the time, your loved ones only want to help you get through your pain. It's been almost 6 months since BD for me, and most days lately I feel like it might as well have been last night. I've long suffered depression as well, and it is definitely something that drained the love from my W, too. I finally got past the shame and fear of seeking help for it (sadly, right around the time just before BD) and for me, IC alone is not enough and medication has absolutely kept me from the abyss of that self loathing, self defeating, "I'm a piece of s**t" attitude that depression smothers you with. Sadness and pain over the sitch is a different feeling altogether. No matter how devastated I might feel and how much I might fall apart with longing for my W and kids, I can still find the motivation to keep up my exercise routines and do the little things I can to take care of myself and keep working on being a better me. I'm not saying you should get on medication, but it may be something to consider if you really have had longstanding depression issues.

Don't give up on yourself, you have made tremendous progress. You are awesome, don't forget that. Seriously.

Davide, if you have a history of anxiety or depression then it may not be something you can control if it's caused by a chemical imbalance in your brain. In such case you'd need medication right? Otherwise my suspicion is that neither a big group of people nor a solitary existence are the best fit for you at this time. It seems having contact with two or three close friends may make you more comfortable. If you don't have such friends I know there are anxiety and depression support groups in almost every city where you could meet some people going through the same thing. Regardless of your religious views, going to a church would likely help you to meet supportive and understanding people even if you don't plan to attend permanently. It's hard to walk into a new church or into a new group of people when you're feeling this way but sometimes you have to force yourself. I've never felt quite the way you describe but there are many days when I've felt totally lost and ungrounded without my husband. It's hard when you know you're pushing away the person you love and you can't give them what they need to stay. This is a challenging time in life. If you have the financial means I know there are online counseling services you could try by phone that could connect you with someone while yours is on vacation. One other suggestion is to try "Natural Vitality's Calm" a magnesium supplement if you don't have any health conditions that would prevent you from taking it. It doesn't do much for me but I never take the full dose. A lot of people swear by it. Arsh's suggestion about charity is a good one - if there's a volunteer opportunity even one day per week to help some people less fortunate that could really help turn things around for you. Even visiting a lonely elderly person in a nursing home - they have all the time in the world to sit and talk and they probably have a lot of wisdom to share. I'm confident you'll be able to take a few steps to help lift yourself out of this state until you find a few individuals to better support you. It feels impossible sometimes but you almost need to take yourself out of your body and just do it. I'll keep you in my thoughts! There's no name or face but I'll look out for your next update.

Davide, you have been a great support to me and as you say we seem to be traveling along some similar feelings in our sitches. I don't feel I'm that great at describing/explaining my feelings much less anyone else's sitch so I'm very reluctant to comment to others lest I say the wrong things, but I'm going to take a very quick, short attempt within your current sitch by using the exact words you gave to me yesterday:

"Hang in there. You ARE worthy!"

All of us here are pulling for each other. Understand that you are not alone.

Hey D, I know you are cycling thru emotions right now. We all have our days. You need to find something as I say, that makes your heart dance.Find something that adds more color to your world -something that makes food more flavorful. Find something you are passionate about and do it. The road we are all on is really sh!tty- but we have to keep our chin up and move forward. For me having a strong faith also gives me strength. Know that we are all in this together and we are all here to support you. Stay Well!

I want you to google Kris Gage and her article 'how to build self-esteem'. See if it helps in reframing some of your thinking.

I know you know that depression is serious business. it is awesome that you recognized it. I can tell you that I went for months and even a couple of years feeling that way and not recognizing it as depression, and so did not do anything to address it. I was a pretty pathetic person to be around I am sure. So, kudos on you for being self-aware and taking time to understand what you are going through.

As mentioned, you will cycle through ups and downs. And it's normal. As long as you accept it and know it will happen, that can tamp down the anxiety because it's not a surprise. And people can't just snap out of depression,which I am sure you also know. I am a fan of telling people to let themselves wallow in their self-pity, shame, depression for a day. Take 24 hours and just do a deep dive in it. But before you do that deep dive, plan what you are going to do the day after. Make a schedule. And then when you wake up after indulging yourself in that self-pity, you don't make excuses for what you planned and just do it. If you have to be a robot to do it, do it that way.

And then continue making that schedule every day and following through on it until you feel better.

Can't remember if you have an IC, but that's a great route to take. I am constantly learning with each IC appointment. Do you journal? Try that. My IC suggested that to me and I thought it was ridiculous. But then I gave it a try fully thinking this was a waste of time, and I saw the benefits of doing it from the first session. Now I am journaling a couple times a week and it has been super helpful. I have gotten so much clarity just from it. Give it a try.

If you don't know how to start journaling, just google how to journal to improve self-love. I came across a few sites that helped me to just start the process. Now I am on the path and it's good.

I just started my sojourn into learning photography. What do you want to do that you've never done? After a day of inaction and distraction, run the other direction into action.

Is this what happens when you let go of the rope and fall to the bottom of the abyss?

D - I think when everyone first comes to the board they don't really understand the concept that there are no quick fixes. It really is a marathon and you have to pace yourself. I also think that a lot of people come here thinking that their sitch is different or they are still in denial with what has occurred. As time goes on though we gradually start to accept what has happened, realize that there is a high probability that they are not coming back, and then people truly find out what they are made of. I believe it is at that juncture when people either push on through, and really start doing things for themselves, making lasting improvements or they backslide from their hard earned changes, stop posting, and then you never know what happens to them.

So it may not be the Abyss but you could be starting to feel reality set in and potentially some acceptance.

Joseph,

Your message really speaks to me. I have been laying low for a couple of days trying to sort things out in my head. I think there definitely has been some reality setting in, both with the message from my W, my return to city life, and my impending return to my house and all that entails. The lows and depression of the past week have been hard to deal with. It is really hard to understand that progress is not linear and that there will be ups and downs. This was definitely the biggest low that I have experienced since the first few weeks post BD.

I am confused and torn between fighting to maintain the changes I had been making, and sitting with and listening to the pain. I can't seem to do both. In my low moments those changes seem illusory. I need to reality check myself about the slow but real progress I have made. I am more mindful. I am more ok sitting with myself. I am aware of self-esteem and codependency issues I need to work on. I am more attuned to the reality of my situation (painful as that is.) I think a lot of my problem is lack of patience. I felt like I was getting to a better place with myself pretty quickly, and thus this setback has been hard to take.

The other strange thing for me is that I have found it less comforting to come here and read and comment on other people's sitches. There seems to be a flood of new LBSs and it just seems sad and depressing that there is so much hurt out there. It does make me appreciate the courage and the generosity of those experts who keep coming back and helping us newbies. I can only hope that it isn't as painful for them and that they get some satisfaction from all the work they put in. My thanks again to all of them.

This is why in the end the changes have to be for you or they will never stick. It is a mindset......when you hear the vets talk about there is a good possibility your spouse will wake and want to recon when your new you hang on to that hope. Eventually the hope starts to fade and you realize that if it is going to happen it will be after D has occurred.

Everyone�s spouse is different......some are more open to returning while others are not. The fight and the struggle is with yourself it is not with your W. You have to fight your urges, fight your temptations, fight backsliding on your hard earned changes, etc. Over time you begin to make the shift for your w to yourself......the quicker you do that the quicker you will begin to heal.

Hey folks.

I am finally back at my parents' place which means a break from the road for a little bit before I return back home in 10 days.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to shake the depression that has been dogging me since early last week. It's like a dark fog that doesn't let in any sunshine or positive thoughts about the future and strips me of my desire to do anything. I have been pushing through as much as I can, but it has been a struggle. My motivation and confidence in myself to effect any lasting shifts are at a low. I think the reality of my situation is finally fully hitting me. The 9 thousand miles I have driven over the past 6.5 weeks is surely also weighing on me physically. I am starting to worry obsessively about what it is going to be like to return to my home without my wife. I think my deepest fear is that I simply won't be able to handle living in the space, that I will have some sort of emotional meltdown. Of course worrying about it obsessively isn't helping my mental state right now. Driving the past few days I needed podcasts to distract me as it was the only way I could make it through 6-7 hours a day in the car.

Is it a good thing that I am experiencing this sadness? That I am letting reality in? The negative part is that it seems to spiral into depression and almost self-loathing. I think I am missing the balance necessary to experience the pain and dealing with reality without falling into this trap.

Now that I am traveling less for a bit I would like to try to get into more of a routine with yoga and meditation, as well as exercise. I think those things sustained me in the months directly post-BD. Of course, blind hope and an inability to grasp the reality of my situation probably also helped.

Interestingly, now that I am facing the reality of my situation more head-on, the less desire I have to see or even hear from W. It seems like that is just going to set me back and put me in a bad place. Is that normal? Before, I would have taken any opportunity to see her to show her my progress, but now I just don't want to deal with her. It's definitely not detachment because I don't want to deal with the emotional repercussions of seeing her. If I were nicely detached then there wouldn't be any emotional repercussions.

welcome back D- good to see you are still here.
Now that I am traveling less for a bit I would like to try to get into more of a routine with yoga and meditation, as well as exercise. I think those things sustained me in the months directly post-BD. Of course, blind hope and an inability to grasp the reality of my situation probably also helped.
I can only speak for myself but I find daily exercise helps to keep me more stable by productively occupying my time and also with the release of endorphins can help battle depression. Hoping this will help you get out of the pit of despair. Keep on going! Stay Well!

Letting the sadness in is just fine, it's the self-loathing that isn't. Since I started medication and IC, the self-loathing has gone away entirely and the lack of self-esteem was easy to start rebuilding. I'm still devastated over the sitch, but I never direct the anger inward. I have regrets and wish I could go back and do several things differently and sooner, but I can forgive myself for it and I don't berate myself over it like I would have in the throes of depression. As someone who carried that pain around for more than 30 years, the difference now is undeniable. I was afraid of seeking help and afraid of therapy and medication. I was wrong to be.

The pain is going to happen, the emotional meltdowns will happen. But you need to address it when it turns into self-loathing and your self-esteem is suffering. Fear is okay, fear is going to happen, but if it becomes uncontrollable and you are doubting yourself this much, then it's not okay. You can get through this. You WILL get through this. Don't worry about if you are detached enough or not, it will happen eventually. Be strong, Davide. Dig deep. Do the yoga, meditation and exercise; I sincerely hope it helps enough. But don't let the depression linger too long unaddressed!

Originally Posted by Davide

Hey folks.
Interestingly, now that I am facing the reality of my situation more head-on, the less desire I have to see or even hear from W. It seems like that is just going to set me back and put me in a bad place. Is that normal? Before, I would have taken any opportunity to see her to show her my progress, but now I just don't want to deal with her. It's definitely not detachment because I don't want to deal with the emotional repercussions of seeing her. If I were nicely detached then there wouldn't be any emotional repercussions.

Now this is an example of you getting back in touch with who you truly are.

Its desperation time, so you will drop your normal role to get back to basics.

And that less desire is an example of that... you know whats truly important

Yes totally normal from my experience.
I have no desire to see or hear from WAW.
Pretty much think she is giant idiot right now and a toxic person.
She is not who I married and unless she has some awakening I am not interested in dealing with her BS.

D - Your emotions are subsiding, your coming down off the rush and you are realizing that focusing on your W and analyzing her every move is exhausting. Everyone does it early on that is why the quicker you can implement what Sandi has laid out the quicker you will begin to heal.

What you are going through and feeling is perfectly normal.

You need to do things that increase your confidence and make you feel good about yourself. That is the only thing you should be focused on.

Sheesh, it seems like forever you've been travelling! Do you think being back at your parents house, a place you feel safe and that holds such a big piece of your life is providing the safety net for this onset of depression? Stability and routine is also what we tend to crave when things get chaotic in our life and so maybe you're ready to get back and just accept this new normal, whatever it is. There's bound to be some apprehension about the "whatever it is" that the new normal is going to look like. Try to enjoy the rest of your trip, go back to the beginning and remember why you started it. Get the most out of every last second, whatever is to come will come. And you will be ok.

Thanks folks! I appreciate all the feedback here from different perspectives. It is important to hear that this is a normal part of the process. I was just reading an article which basically espoused the idea of trusting the process and not getting hung up on the results, i.e. it's the journey that matters not the destination. Right now I need to just trust this process. It really s@cks most of the time, but avoiding it, denying it or running from it are not real solutions.

LoneWlf, I got out for a 20 mile bike ride this afternoon after I arrived and that really did seem to help. Now that my driving is more limited I'm going to try to make scheduling in daily exercise a priority. It really functions like a form of meditation for me in that I can become completely lost in the moment, mindful of all the sensations in my body, the scents, the images in front of me, the wind in my face.

Hongaku, I hear you about the unhealthiness of self-loathing. I thought I had kicked that habit, but it came back with a vengeance with this kick of reality. It's not a place I want to stay in. I need to keep structures in place that keep me from dwelling there too long.

Benito, I certainly hope you are right. You certainly grab the silver linings of my posts.

Ste7e, I hear you. I don't see my W as toxic. I just don't think seeing her will help me on my journey right now.

Joseph, what exactly do you mean by "what Sandi has laid out?" I have followed the rules to a T (except for 33 - giving up hope, and 35 - backsliding from hard-earned changes)

Helena, thanks for checking in! Yeah, it feels like I have been on the road forever as well. The novelty of driving long distances and eating out every night had long since worn out. The final weeks I was really only enjoying the time that I spent reconnecting with old friends. The depression is definitely not linked to my parents' place as I have been in a low place for the past week and only arrived here today. I think my upcoming return to my house plays a part, my W's email about what she was taking from the house, and just the kick of the reality of my situation in general. I hope you are right about getting in the routine of returning to work and the exercise routine and social life that I had established post BD. I will definitely be relying on them to carry me through.

Good evening,

Some journaling:

I have been a bit more disconnected from the internet since I returned to my parent's home. It has been a bit of a shelter from the storm. I have been able to recuperate from all the time on the road, to relax a bit, to spend time with my parents, to visit some friends in xxxxxx. Importantly for my mental well-being I have also been able to resume my exercise regime. I have been able to start every morning except today (I spent the night at a cousin's house in xxxxxxx) with an hour of yoga. I have also been going out for 20 mile bike rides every day but one. Yesterday I did a long 42 mile bike ride with a close high school friend along the xxxxxx river out to xxxxxxxxxxx I have still been practicing mindfulness, and spending at least a short amount of time each day meditating. I have been journaling a bit and writing in a gratitude journal as well as trying to start each day with a few thoughts of gratitude. All of this has contributed greatly to a broad sense of calm. I do worry that this is a calm before the storm of returning home at the end of the week, but I also feel like I should take advantage of it and enjoy it while I can. I was having trouble sleeping and needing to take NyQuill almost every night, but the last two or three nights I abstained and was still able to sleep in relatively short order.

I feel like I am more capable of taking my emotions and thoughts and handling them gently, looking at them almost from an outside perspective without getting caught up in them. Of course, they aren't very strong emotions. I worry whether I am repressing them just so I can claim to have a better handle on them. I do feel sadness, nostalgia, longing, resentment, anger, but they are more fleeting emotions, not the raw, jagged things that have so wounded me before. I don't try to banish them from my mind, but I do allow them to pass and float away. I feel like surrendering to them and allowing them to either pass or stay with me is healthier than either forcefully trying to deny them or attempting to grip them strongly in my mind and mire myself in them.

Last night I had dinner and drinks with my cousins and it was a great night. I can't remember laughing so hard in a long time. It was pure, unadulterated joy in the moment. It was great to experience that again. The last time I felt that good was 6 weeks ago when I met with my former students. It was a great reminder of what it felt like, and what I need to keep myself open to.

One of the questions that has been pressing upon my consciousness is that of having a family with children. I spent Sunday afternoon at a friend's beach house surrounded by his large extended family, with over a half-dozen children under 10 years old, and then last night I spent the night with my younger cousin, his girlfriend and their 2 year old. That was always something that I thought I wanted, something that I thought was part of being a complete adult, or complete family. My thinking changed with W, since she didn't want children, but I wonder if that was pressing on my subconscious and contributing to my unhappiness or neediness. At the same time, I wonder how much of that desire comes from a place of emotional neediness, that I felt the need for a child as yet another form of external validation to make up for the lack of internal validation. My parents have made numerous references to that, and are very clear in their desire for grandchildren. I had a good conversation with my father on a bike ride about this, and I expressed my concerns about the need for external validation. He sort of pooh-poohed those concerns as he said that my brothers and I brought him and my mother a great deal of happiness. However, I am still unconvinced. I think I need to sit with that question some more.

I return home in 4 days. Hopefully, I can bring the practices and perspectives that I have worked on back with me.

Embrace the feelings, whatever they might be. Embrace them, process them and you will gain new insight from them. This new insight will set another layer in your personality in these layers will add up over time and make the NEW YOU. Your feelings will continue to be up and down, but over time the downs will begin to be less severe and less frequent. What you are experiencing is completely normal.

You have to take care of yourself and stop worrying about other people's feelings. You matter. First and foremost.

Thanks Vapo. However, I don't understand where you are coming from when you tell me to take care of myself and stop worrying about other people's feelings. Is that a reference to the advice my father gave me? It just seems strange to me, not wrong but strange, since I have been doing exactly what you prescribe for the past two months.

So, I'm back in the house.

I spent last night at a friend's house which was great. I slept really well and had a good time hanging out with him, his wife and their baby. The 6 hour drive back home was remarkably normal as I listened to a book on tape. I was calm, and in a good place. WAW had asked me to text with my ETA so I did and she told me to be safe and let me know that I got in. But I didn't respond.

However, the house is a different matter. It's about as I expected. Hard. I haven't seen the place in 2 months. I haven't spent a night here in 4 months. The master bedroom is half empty, a single pillow lying on it, the closet vacant, the bureau half-empty. The second bedroom/her office is completely vacant. The walls are mainly bare. All photos of the two of us, and there were many, are gone. I was going to take them down anyway, but it still stings. There was a fire smoldering in the fire-pit out back with paper burning, it makes me wonder if that is where the photos ended up.

I have been reading the Little Book of Letting Go, and one of the exercises is to stop all worrying thoughts in their tracks by focusing on a positive thought, something that connects me to someone/something. I don't know how that works with leaning in to emotions and letting myself feel them. So far I haven't been able to find tears, but it is hard to be in this house, in this condition, half-undone but yet still full of memories of our life together. I think it is normal to have these struggles and nostalgia as I first come back. I just wonder if I will be able to move past it as I live in it.

On the bright side, my beautiful dog is lying at my side, and I can still tell her that I love her. Tomorrow I'm off to exercise, unpack fully, and get ready to teach a class on Monday.

Welcome home, Davide. Stay strong my friend. You're going to be just fine.

What a rough night. I couldn't sleep and eventually had to take a bunch (3) of NyQuill. I finally faded off after 3:30 a.m.
Hopefully that was just first day jitters, plus an upset stomach. I need to sleep better than that if I want to function and be positive going forward.

I never responded to W's text yesterday but woke up this morning to an email asking to talk in person and to let her know what would be a good time for that. I don't really want to meet right now. I don't think seeing her will help my headspace, but at the same time I know we will have to see each other eventually. I also think I need some time to adjust to being back in the house and the city. I feel pretty far from a lighthouse right now. Is it worth asking what she wants to talk about? We need to set up some kind of schedule for her to see the dog, so that might be part of it.

Originally Posted by Davide

What a rough night. I couldn't sleep and eventually had to take a bunch (3) of NyQuill. I finally faded off after 3:30 a.m.
Hopefully that was just first day jitters, plus an upset stomach. I need to sleep better than that if I want to function and be positive going forward.

I never responded to W's text yesterday but woke up this morning to an email asking to talk in person and to let her know what would be a good time for that. I don't really want to meet right now. I don't think seeing her will help my headspace, but at the same time I know we will have to see each other eventually. I also think I need some time to adjust to being back in the house and the city. I feel pretty far from a lighthouse right now. Is it worth asking what she wants to talk about? We need to set up some kind of schedule for her to see the dog, so that might be part of it.

I would suggest that the only reason you probably do not want to meet is because you want to avoid the potential pain of the injustice and lost (what could of been) feelings when you meet up.

In reality this meeting is what it is.. any emotional attachment you have is what you have manufactured for yourself around it.

I am not downplaying how you feel - I acknowledge its pretty sh%$, however nothing she says in this potential meet is going to make or break your day. You are on a journey and will continue down it regardless.

This could be alot worse. You are only 41 and there are no kids involved.

Of course, Benito. It is all in my head. The actual meeting is what it is, and my W has been amicable and pleasant throughout this process. The desire not to see her is rooted completely in not exacerbating the emotions that have been rubbed raw from moving home. I do wonder if in 5 or 10 days I might not be more accustomed to living in this house and a little less sensitive. I would prefer to be in a place where I can simply wish her well on her journey.

So, I just met with WAW and we talked in person for half an hour in the park (so I could bring the dog) for the first time in 2 months. I didn't sleep well last night, but rode 28 miles on the bike and went to the climbing gym for nearly 2 hours. I also had a first session with a new IC. I had a glass of wine with dinner and did a little light meditation beforehand. I was in a calm, peaceful frame of mind, ready to accept whatever came.

We talked about the dog a bit, since she escaped from the yard yet again today. I let WAW know that I would prefer to have a somewhat set schedule of when she is going to visit the dog rather than texting or emailing me to ask each time. So, we'll set that up. She also paid me back for some of the house bills that she ran up while I was away, which was good because I was going to ask her to anyway. She mentioned coming by to do yard work and I told her that wouldn't be necessary since she isn't living here anymore.

She was tearful throughout. She asked me how I was doing and I was vague but positive, truthfully telling her that I was in a much better space than a year ago and more centered, but I didn't go on much or into details. She told me that she still felt horribly guilty for letting me down when I needed her. I validated as much as I could. She said that she was happy with being on her own. She also let me know that she was seeing someone casually, a common friend of ours, that she had been seeing him for a couple of weeks but that she was not ready for anything serious. I told her that I hoped it made her happy, perhaps that was a mistake, but I don't see it as a an A since in my mind the R has been over for a while now. Of course, it was probably an EA long before it progressed to this.

She reiterated that she loved me "in her way." And she told me that she hoped we could be friends, maybe not now, but in the future. When I replied that we'll just have to see where life leads us, it provoked more tears in her. I asked her if there was anything else she wanted or needed to tell me, and then got up to leave. She asked if she could give me a hug, and I told her that I preferred not, and I left. I didn't do that quickly or coldly, but assertively. For the most part I think that I handled it about as well as could be expected, especially emotionally.

Honestly, I don't really feel crushed because I knew the R was over at this point anyway. The guy she is seeing is sort of irrelevant, he is almost a form of GAL for her. I get why she doesn't want anything serious because her previous relationship (me) had become such an emotional leech. The only downside is that I want to avoid interactions with this guy, who is heavily involved in the cycling community.

I think my days of standing are over at this point. I have no intention of avowing to leave the forum and never come back, because the support I have received on here has been invaluable. I still need help to become the stronger person I want to become. However, I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of my WAW's intentions or pronouncements. She has been steadfast in word and deed since BD that the R is over, despite her obvious guilt. Her actions have been consistent as well. I don't see much point in wasting valuable days, months, or years of my life clinging onto a ship that has already sailed. There are no children to complicate the situation, so making a clean break should be easier.

Thanks again for all the support.

Davide,

I just want to say that even though I don't have much good advice for you, that your story has really been amazing. You have been very strong and I can't imagine what you're going through.

I prolly would have wussed out and hugged her. I am not a great DB'er and am just too sensitive or desperate. Hell I don't think I can read your thread without thinking about my sitch which is so weird. I feel for you.

Thanks!

I appreciate the support, and hope that my sitch and story can be of some service to others on here. I have learned so much from reading about others. There is no fairy-tale happy ending to it, but I hope with hard work and diligence I can manage to come out stronger.

Davide,
This is a good post for many to read.
I see your a pretty strong person. To meet at the park and have a decent conversation is my dream right now. Im sure you've had some days like me that just drag on forever. Thanks again for replying to my thread yesterday.

Does it make you feel a little better that she has the "obvious guilt" and that she cries a little when you talk to her?

My WW just looks depressed and not happy. I'm just wondering. I think the GAL attitude when she sees me might...I said might....be paying off a little. I'm not sure though.

Lane,

Remember the GAL is for YOU not for her. That is an important distinction that I struggled with early on as well. You need to work on yourself for you, not to elicit a reaction for her.

It doesn't make me feel better that she feels guilty and cries. That is her emotional response to her actions. I can certainly understand why she feels that way, but that is her emotional burden to carry not mine. I also recognize my own role in allowing the MR to deteriorate so I don't shove blame on to her.

Last night was tough as I had trouble falling asleep. By the time I finally got asleep it was clear that waking up for 6 a.m. yoga was out of the question if I wanted to be functional at all. Unfortunately, with my medical procedure and the anxiety before and after the meeting with W I haven't been to a single yoga class in 4 days. What worries me is that I am falling into old (bad) habits - watching Netflix and spending time on the internet. These behaviors are distractions, which are helpful in small doses, but I know that I have a tendency to not deal with emotions or disturbing thoughts by over-relying on them. I don't want to let that happen. I am going out on a group bike ride tonight which should be good. I really need to get a good night's sleep as well. Hopefully the exercise and socialization will help with that. I also found a meetup group to practice my Italian with on Sunday, so that is another thing.

D - I think you handled the meeting well with your W and I am glad you did not accept a hug from her. Since the dog is very important to you both I like the fact you suggested a structured visitation schedule.

Lastly I would not believe anything she said in relation to the other man. Your W sounds similar to mine and was very nice to me, downplayed her reasons for moving out, and was never over the top disrespectful to me. Looking back my W was online, dating and meeting other guys the moment she moved out of the house. I confronted her 1 time about a guy I found out about and she denied the whole thing and downplayed whatever was going on. I would never bring up OM, her happiness or anything else related to her well being or her feelings ever again.

Since you are separated your job is to detach, detach, detach, and do not worry about anything she is doing or be lulled to sleep by her being nice.

Thanks Joseph. I appreciate the support. I am, not without reason, feeling particularly vulnerable today and I appreciate hearing the encouragement.

In terms of the other guy - who knows, and it really doesn't matter. I think there was probably some sort of EA going on for a while as they have been friends for a while, but I don't think more speculation is anything other than another cheeseless tunnel. I have no intention of talking with her about him, or her feelings again.

Yeah, I am working on getting on with my life. I ordered a new bed for the spare bedroom, a new couch cover, and am going to get some prints to put up on the walls. I want to redecorate the house at least a little. I'll also put up pictures from my trip. However, I will also start the process of looking for new jobs in other cities for the following school year since I have nothing tying me to the city I currently live in. So I don't want to invest a ton of money in the house if, as is likely, we end up selling it. GAL is a little more complicated now because the cycling community has been such a big part of it for me and the OM is very much embedded in that community. I am not sure how I will handle that. I certainly don't want to see him, or the two of them together, but I also don't want to cut myself off from the community. It might be tricky. Tonight I am going out for a group ride since I am relatively confident neither of them will be there, but any weekend plans with that community run the risk of encountering them. I am definitely trying to expand my social scene, and that will be a big priority as I get back into the rhythm of normal life here.

You handled the meeting with WAW like a pro Davide, your posts reflect show much more detachment than just a month ago. It is natural to have feel vulnerable once you got back home, let them just pass. I think it is okay to cut yourself from the biking community where OM may be there, others may say he needs to be ashamed not you so be strong but I think there is no need to invite unnecessary pain. Especially with no kids involved unless absolutely necessary keep the interactions non existent. I dont know if you addressed this, but based on your signature the plan was for you to move out at this time, is that still happening?

D - I can understand the pain of not wanting to see them together. I would not have been able to handle it early on in my sitch either. I would just suggest that you don't put yourself in a position your not comfortable with until you can emotionally handle it. Everyone is different but I think I would be ok seeing it now and for me its been about 1.5 years.

Sorry I misread your housing scenario, you just moved back in, hence the redecorating. Great idea, make it your own will help you erase unwanted memories by association

Arsh,

The plan was for me to move BACK into the home August 5th. At BD I moved out because I felt the situation was toxic for me and I needed distance. It wasn't feasible for W to move out because she worked from home. Thus, the arrangement whereby I moved out and stayed out for 2 months until the summer, then I traveled for 2 months, and then I was to come back to the house. That gave W plenty of time to find her own place and make arrangements, and she could do all that, and the packing and the like, without me being around to suffer through it.

So, as of 4 days ago I am back in the house.

Yeah, my plan is to keep interactions to a minimum. We need to coordinate about the dog and a little bit of financial stuff, but that is it, and that can be done over email.

Thanks for chiming in! I know how busy you are and how tough your situation is. I have been following it closely and I wish you all the best as well.

Joseph,

Agreed. I don't want to put myself in an uncomfortable situation, and with BD just 4 months back it is still raw. During the 2 months before my trip but after BD I actually saw OM a good bit as he worked on my bike and came out to a number of social functions (obviously not with W).

My plan is to search for jobs so that I can leave the city (if I get a good offer) by next summer. D can't happen until April, but I imagine that will be relatively easy and uncomplicated. Getting a clean start in a new city as a single man sounds more appealing to me than trying to rebuild here.

You're really lucky you don't have kids. It's a hugely complicating factor for me. My family means everything to me and the likelihood of it breaking apart is equally as emotionally devastating as the woman I've loved for 20 years wanting to end our love relationship.

Does your STBXW really need to see the dog? Will you be taking the dog with you if you move to a new city? I would personally go completely dark other than the necessary financial stuff, and keeping those exchanges as mechanical and businesslike as possible.

I'm sorry you had to suffer through her crocodile tears and the always insipid "hope we can friends" BS. You really handled the meeting with her well though, given the way things are. You're going to be alright and you've definitely done a lot of important growing from what I can tell.

Thanks Hongaku.

I completely understand what you mean when you talk about tearing a family apart as well as a relationship. I'm sure that is a completely different level of pain. Honestly, I think it is possible for a person in a relationship without kids to rationally decide that the relationship is not right for them anymore. It [censored], but it can be rational. However, tearing a family apart seems much harder if not impossible to justify outside of cases of abuse. I don't think my W is irrational nor particularly disingenuous. She decided that she was better off not in the relationship. That [censored] for me, but it doesn't make her irrational. Personally, I thought that our relationship was salvageable with some hard work, but she didn't.

In terms of the dog, I feel like that it would be cruel and controlling to deny her visitation. She is not a child, not even close, but she is beloved by both of us. Also, if my W wanted to force the issue the house is still in both of our names and she has a key, so she could just visit whenever she knows I'm out (she wouldn't do that, but I think it would be within her rights.) I don't know if I will take the dog if/when I move. It really depends on the situation. She is a bigger 50lb dog with a lot of energy so I wouldn't want to coop her up in a small apartment.

Hot yoga just helped my mood a lot and I have a group bike ride in 1.5 hours, so today is a good GAL day!

I just wanted to chime in and say that you handled the meet with her really well. I know it's no easy feat. I think your idea of building something anew in a new city sounds really refreshing. We all deserve a fresh start and some of us can make it by moving locations or just change up things drastically in the place we're at. Good luck and keep us posted.

Thanks Maika.

I always appreciate your input and validation. It means a lot coming from you.

I am in a great situation financially with my house here, but a fresh start is quite appealing. Thankfully, I have 8-9 months to search for an ideal situation. I think that time will also be helpful for rebuilding my self-esteem and zest for life. Wherever I end up, even if it is still in the same city or house, I want to be confident in beginning a new stage of my life.

Hi D, Just got caught up on your sitch. I think you doing a great job . Just want to drop by and offer you my support. I too am struggling with intense emotions. I hope things get better soon! Keep positive!

Hey folks,

Just checking back in. There's really nothing much to report in my situation. I am continuing to see my IC, to bike everywhere, to climb, to do yoga, to meditate. I am still reading the Little Book of Letting Go, and trying to practice some of the releases in there. Over the weekend I did a lot of work in the yard, trying to make it escape-proof for my pup who had been burrowing under one of the fences and sawing up a small tree that had fallen over. That is a 180 for me as I did very little around the house. Just watering the house plants and taking care of the garden, and maintaining the house relatively clean (difficult with a dog who sheds all the time) is a change for me. I've also bought a bed for the 2nd bedroom, a new couch cover, and am trying to (cheaply) redecorate the house a bit.

This weekend was tough as I really had no one to talk with or do anything with. I ended up walking the dog up to a dog bar on Friday night and going out to dinner and a movie by myself on Saturday night just to get out of the house. It was a bit lonesome. Thankfully on Sunday I got to go climbing and then out to a meetup group to speak Italian, and then out for a group bike ride. Yesterday I met with a group of friends for a regular Monday night dinner which was really great. I had to overcome at least some fear to show up as nearly everyone in that group not only knows my sitch, but also knows that W is dating this other guy. That said, I'm really glad I did it and it felt good to connect socially. Today is my first full-day back at work, although students aren't in for a little while.

There has been little interaction with the W. She came by Sunday and Monday evening to take the dog out and spend time with her, which was perfect because I was out, and because it guaranteed that I wouldn't run into her at dinner (it's a group of common friends). She emailed me to ask for some tax documents and complimented me on the fence I put up. I was all business in response. I also think that I unwittingly discovered where she is living as I passed by an apartment on my bike which had our moped parked outside. I was wondering but now I kind of wish that I didn't know. Thankfully I don't have to pass by there very often. I've definitely had more feelings of resentment and anger bubble to the surface since I found out about her dating, especially since she has known the OM for over a year. I want to acknowledge the feelings and the thoughts behind it, but let it go and not let it spiral.

Overall I feel like I am doing pretty well. The final frontier for me is getting back to a normal sleeping pattern. I'm still too reliant on the help of NyQuil and the like to fall asleep and that is leaving me quite groggy in the mornings, especially as I am transitioning into getting up each day at 5:30. That said, I need the sleep one way or another and if that is the only way I can get it, I'm gonna do what I have to do.

Thanks to everyone for the support!

It's been a while since I wrote in my own thread, mainly because there hasn't been much to report. I am continuing to do my own thing - commuting by bike, yoga, rock climbing, meditation, seeing an in person IC as well as an on-line one. I also just started teaching classes again which is a fun challenge but stressful in its own right. Keeping busy has generally not been a problem, especially during the week. At times I struggle to find time to keep up the house, water the vegetable garden that belonged to the W, walk the dog and get her enough exercise, prep my meals, etc... On the weekends I have the opposite problem as I really don't have much to do, or people to hang out with. I make an effort to go out to eat even if it by myself, and take in a movie, but Saturdays in particular are when the feelings of loneliness are most acute. I realize that establishing a stronger social network is key, I think it will just take some time.

On Tuesday I met up with a divorced/separated meet-up group. It was an interesting experience as there were only a half dozen people and almost all of them had at least 2-3 decades on me, a couple of them had been married for 49 years! It was quite an experience to hear their stories and perspectives in person as opposed to reading them on here. Ultimately, I was hoping to meet people a bit closer to my own age to fill out my social network, so it was disappointing on that front.

The W comes by twice a week to walk the dog and I leave whatever mail comes for her on the table, but I am out GALing whenever she comes by (on purpose.) The other day she sent me an email going over some small bills that we share and how we are going to handle them. She also talked about how she felt uncomfortable and not sure how to interact with me when she saw me at the gym the previous Friday night, and asking me how I would like to handle those encounters. That was quite the surprise to me, because while I was at the gym, I didn't notice her there! I simply told her that I didn't see her but that my plan was to head to the gym most Friday nights. The implication being, if she wants to go anyway that's her right, but I am not adjusting my schedule.

In general my mood and attitude has been positive. However, when I do think about the sitch my emotions tend much more towards anger and resentment rather than sadness, longing or anything else. I never thought I had committed myself to someone with so little loyalty or patience. Love is a choice and an action, and I chose to love her through her depression and rough times. She chose to run away. I understand this is yet another stage of grief, but it is more pleasant than some of the other stages. Again, this isn't overwhelming anger or rage - it is just thoughts/emotions that bubble up in random moments that I try to listen to and hold lightly without letting myself get caught up in them.

One thing that I have been struggling with and would like to hear more from this board about is dating. I have felt an urge to date in recent weeks and have an online account with a service, but I haven't written/spoken with anyone, nor followed through at all. I think the urge to date comes from a few sources - the desire to move on, the desire to fill in the gaps of my social network, the desire to not waste any more of my time as I am getting up there in age if I want to start a family, and probably more. On the other side of the ledger I do worry about whether I have given myself enough time to grieve, whether I am in a strong enough position emotionally and mentally, whether I am ready to be open to a new relationship and give it a fair shot. I'm not so much worried about the effect it would have on the W, since I have no expectations or hope (and a dwindling to scant desire) for any type of R. In the past, before my MR I did a lot of dating and actually enjoyed it a good deal even though it rarely led to any long-term Rs, and I think I would enjoy the social element of it. Especially at my age, in the city I live in it seems like that is one of the better ways to meet new people. Doing the bar scene is simply not appealing.

I'd love to hear feedback and take my share of 2x4s for this.

Davide great progress.

On dating, you need to be sure of your motivation and where the need is coming from. Most LBSs feel the need to deate to be validated, and have their self-esteem soothed. Terrible reasons to date. Dating is about finding a mate. So until you are ready to move on from your sitch, MR, and W dating would be inappropriate.

Lots of LBSs are dishonest with themselves about the dating issue. No I just need to move on, and this will help. Etc. The truth is sometimes we are addicted to the feeling of being wanted and needed. And then there are those who insist they have to have their "sexual" needs met. All a bunch of hogwash based on feelings and wants, not needs and science.

So start dating when you are truly ready to move on with your life, and not until.

Steve,

I hear what you are saying. I think you may be a little harsh in saying "addicted to the feeling of being wanted and needed" but I get where you are coming from. I think a desire for intimacy and connection isn't necessarily unhealthy. However, I also have always seen dating in a different light. I dated for 13 years before meeting my W. I was definitely looking for a serious relationship at least halfway through that time but I also enjoyed the process of going out and meeting new and interesting people and hearing their stories without much in the way of expectations. Perhaps it is completely different as a 40 year old, but I think a lot of it is how you frame it in your head.

Whether or not I am ready for it is a great question and one that I struggle with. Perhaps that struggle is an indication that I am not. We'll see. I think everything will come into focus with a little more time.

I went to the gym last night and saw the W there. At first I wasn't sure it was her as she was a distance away and I have only seen her once in the last 3 months, but it was definitely her. It probably wasn't DBing but I just completely ignored her for the hour and a half I was there, and she didn't approach me either. At the time, I didn't know if I could be civil to her, I felt like I might tell her to "F#$k off" or otherwise express the resentment that I talked about in my previous message. I felt like that might not be the most productive strategy. It's strange how I have gone from wanting to see her at any chance, to not really wanting to see her, to actively ignoring her. Thankfully the space is large enough that we didn't have to cross paths.

Hi D. It�s good to read what you are posting man! Just keep doing what is working.

Have a good weekend D!

New thread

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