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http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2786967&page=11 Just a quick summary . Been with W 20 yrs married 16 yrs. Met W at the church where I serve as an usher. W was previously married but we got that annulled. Married W at the church - 9 months later had a honeymoon souvenir- baby boy. At this moment my dreams were fulfilled. Did MC 4 years ago but fell back to old habits. BD after W visits with sister Oct 2017who is big on new age religion. S becomes mad at W because he feels she just quit and did not try. Intimacy and communication issues present but not beating no cheating no abuse. First tried the Love Dare from church recommendations- very little effect. Now actively focusing on me ,DB, 180. W is moving out 5-15 to rental apartment. Any help is appreciated.
W is coming home this weekend and will be moving out mid week. Is it better for me to be here while she's moving out or is it better for me to leave and come back after? Should I even help her move large furniture? Thanks for the advice.
Steve,thanks for all the valuable information.
My question to you and anyone who could help is- My wife knows of my strong faith. She also knows that I feel strongly opposed to her new found belief. She returns this weekend from this new age religion course on women's empowerment. She did not tell me where she was going but only said she was going away and will be returning on Sunday. From my curiosity and fear of an OM I did some snooping and found out this information> she is with her big sis and her big sis is a huge believer in this new age faith. My question is - do I ask her how her trip was? What did she do? ask to see pics? connect like we did in the past? Or do I sweep it under the carpet and just leave it be as if I'm not worried that she may have been with OM and did whatever? I don't want to look as if I am persuing. Thanks for the replies.
You should stop pursuing.
My question is - do I ask her how her trip was?
Yes, this is fine. However, DO NOT ask for details. See below.
What did she do? ask to see pics?
NO. Let her share what she wants. This is pursuit. The above question is just polite, but wanting to see pics is pursuit. If she offers pics then view them. Otherwise when she says "It was good." and leave it at that, don't follow up.
connect like we did in the past?
You are not connected like in the past so no, do not attempt to connect with her. Just ask how her trip was and validate. "Good to hear you had a good time.[/quote]
Or do I sweep it under the carpet and just leave it be as if I'm not worried that she may have been with OM and did whatever?
I can tell from your wording of this you've already determined that anything short of confronting her on this trip is "sweeping it under the carpet".
So now let me ask you questions. Say she, under your questioning, admits she is into this NA religion and denounces Christianity. What are you going to do? You already said she knows how you feel about it, are you going to insist on telling her what she already knows? What if she comes clean that not only was her sis there but that an OM was there too? Does that change your desire to get your wife back? If the answer to that question is no, then why does it matter?
LW, I know all this is hard, and counter-intuitive, and just makes you miserable. Been there. What freed me from all of this is coming to the conclusion that I cannot control her! This is why detachment and validating anything she says is so important.
Also, another thing I and a lot of LBSs are looking for by questioning the WAS is reassurance. However, in my experience and reading lots of sitches here, almost never, in fact in 99.999999999% of the cases that the LBS is looking for reassurance by talking to or questioning the WAS they do not get it.
At best you will get a lot of IDKs. Most of the time they will be blunt. You see, the WAS has already realized that in order to get what they want they have to hurt you. So looking for reassurances from them is probably not going to happen. IF they do give you some minor reassurances it is probably in order to manipulate you to get something they want out of you. Thus the sandi rule: Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.
Further, looking for reassurances from your WAS shows you are still emotionally attached, and that you have to work to detach, lovingly. That means NOT initiating conversations. Be upbeat, present, responsive, but do not start conversations and BE the one to end them. "Thanks for chatting, but I have to go...." No reason why you have to go, remember mystery is a good thing!
So LW, when she returns, and you interact, let her start the conversation. Ask her if she had a good trip, and then validate what she says.
^^Good advice from Steve^^
W is coming home this weekend and will be moving out mid week. Is it better for me to be here while she's moving out or is it better for me to leave and come back after? Should I even help her move large furniture? Thanks for the advice.
This is really a personal call. The "tough love" approach would call for just leaving her to move on her own, and leaving the house while she's there. Personally I think that can appear to a WAS like punishment though. When my ex moved out I asked her if she wanted help, and she said no so I didn't help her. Later she did ask for some help setting furniture up so I went over and helped out. This kind of stuff doesn't really help or hurt your sitch much (remember it's a marathon!) so don't worry too much about it.
My question to you and anyone who could help is- My wife knows of my strong faith. She also knows that I feel strongly opposed to her new found belief. She returns this weekend from this new age religion course on women's empowerment. She did not tell me where she was going but only said she was going away and will be returning on Sunday. From my curiosity and fear of an OM I did some snooping and found out this information> she is with her big sis and her big sis is a huge believer in this new age faith. My question is - do I ask her how her trip was? What did she do? ask to see pics? connect like we did in the past? Or do I sweep it under the carpet and just leave it be as if I'm not worried that she may have been with OM and did whatever? I don't want to look as if I am persuing. Thanks for the replies.
OK, well hopefully you know this but don't challenge her on her beliefs. That will just drive her farther away. And try not to snoop, almost everyone that snoops eventually gets caught and it can really anger the WAS as it looks like control and manipulation. Snooping usually nets a bunch of confusing info that you can't sort out anyway.
But if you knew she was on a trip, like Steve said it's fine to ask a generic "how was your trip?" Don't ask for pics, don't ask for details, don't ask who she was with. If she opens up about it then listen and validate. Remember, validation is not "agreement" it is merely acknowledgement. So if she tells you it was a new age religious retreat then just nod and ask if she enjoyed it. If you disagree with the path she's pursuing then figure out how to bury that inside, if she senses disapproval from you that will not help your sitch.
Steve/RR you guys are blunt and to the point. Although its sometimes hard to hear the facts- Like it or not, it is what works. And me being a noob I have to look to you seasoned vets and appreciate that you guys are farther along than I am. Thank you for passing on your wisdom.
Steve/RR you guys are blunt and to the point. Although its sometimes hard to hear the facts- Like it or not, it is what works. And me being a noob I have to look to you seasoned vets and appreciate that you guys are farther along than I am. Thank you for passing on your wisdom.
Yeah, there is no point beating around the bush. Look, this stuff is one of the worst things you will ever go through, short of health issues. There is no way around it. Both times I've gone through it there were times I just wanted to close my eyes and never wake up. But we have to keep the big picture in mind, and never give up.
My 2 cents is that the NA stuff is not the worst new interest for your W to have as at least there is a spiritual element to it, she is most likely just looking to find herself and experimenting with different belief systems. It could be so much worse she could be disavowing all religion and spirituality and drinking or doing drugs.
Steve85 & Ste7e you both have valid points. My stance on religion is that my W met me in church. Persued me. Had her 1st marriage annulled for us to marry. Married me at church- then renewed our vows at 10 years. And recently I've noticed books on fortune telling, card readings, mediums, how to become a medium an channeling, healing rocks , numerology. Everything the church is against. I just feel so deceived -thinking I was marring a Godly woman who now is becoming a pagan. This is not what I signed up for.
Steve85 & Ste7e you both have valid points. My stance on religion is that my W met me in church. Persued me. Had her 1st marriage annulled for us to marry. Married me at church- then renewed our vows at 10 years. And recently I've noticed books on fortune telling, card readings, mediums, how to become a medium an channeling, healing rocks , numerology. Everything the church is against. I just feel so deceived -thinking I was marring a Godly woman who now is becoming a pagan. This is not what I signed up for.
The New Testament is full of warnings and examples of falling away. Paul told the congregation at Galatia "I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel". In another place he said "take heed lest ye fall".
She was Godly at one time and has fallen away. That doesn't mean she won't come back some day. The question is how much time can you give her to see the light?
In my walk with God. What I have come to realize is that it's not how much time do I have but it is always and will be on God's time. Based on his master plan. His will be done. What messages I read in scripture is that you LOVE unconditionally as Christ loves. Agape love -far greater than any emotion. Christ also taught us to hate the sin and love the sinner. In His words" what so ever you do to the least of my people- that you do unto me". My game plan is and always will be now to be the best me for God, myself and my S. Should my W choose to walk with Christ and I -it will be her choice b/c she has free will.
If you remember earlier this year that Valentines day and Ash Wednesday fell on the same day. This is when I told my S that the date was appropriate for me because Valentines day although a commercialized day for Love fell on the first day of Lent. For those that are not familiar with Lent. it is a time where you reflect, fast and do alms giving and to be Christ like and give up something to emulate what Jesus did. It is on this Lenten day that I told my W that in the worldly sense of lent ( meaning to borrow and give back) . For lent I was giving her up and I was placing her at the foot of the cross to give back to GOD and it was now up to her with her free will to choose to continue this walk with me and God.
For me now my objectives are to be the best me for God, myself and my S. The rest is yet to be seen. I will be praying for everyone here. I thank you for your prayers in return. God Bless!
Just for reference, I'm not Catholic. However you do make a good point about living unconditionally. However caution that doesn't mean accepting everything. Christ loves unconditionally but doesn't accept sin. He is the ultimate lighthouse, loving is when we go astray hoping we'll come back to him.
For all the mothers here I want to wish you all a Happy Mothers Day. May your days be blessed with happiness.
As for me W is coming home today. She did not give me a specific time so I don't know if I should have dinner made or not. Yesterday was a pretty good day b/c S and I went to see the new Avengers movie then we went to dinner at one of his favorite places. Lots of special effects in the movie. Gonna be a roller coaster week b/c W is moving out. Wish me luck!
W came home late last nite. I was already in bed. Woke up to drive S to school W was up said morning and did my thing. She was getting her coffee and watching TV. Dropped my S to school went to the gym- got some comments from women on my new haircut and how good I was looking. Man does that feel good again!! I came home W was home she said she was taking the week off to move. As I was grabbing a bite - trying for minimal contact- She starts with the " how was your week?". Then "what did you guys do? ""What else happened". tried to keep my answers as vague and brief as possible then i made sure give her my full attention before i abruptly said " I need to get some stuff done- I better get movin" . So I upped and went while trying to be positive. I can tell you that this morning I had a pit in my stomach knowing that i had to face my W. From this brief encounter I guess I had to fake it till I made it!! Anyways so far that is how my day is going. If you guys see any room for improvement please let me know. Thanks!
Well done LW. Hang in there buddy. I am hoping the reality of moving is too much for her and she 180s on it. Lots of WAWs/WWs do that.
Either way, keep up the good work!
Can't see anything extra to be done.
All good
V
Thanks for the support S85 and Vanilla- I need all the help I can get.
As for moving out - I did my job search -finished and had an appointment for my dog. When I came back in , I saw W was packing boxes and had some stacked by the front door. I started preparing dinner. Looked like W wanted to talk. She asked me where I was?
I said the vet. while i kinda stopped what Iwas doing as to give her my full attention and trying to stay positive and calm while inside it was killing me to see her pack and prepare to leave just like that.
She then asked why- I said to get the dogs allergy pills and his seasonal flea and tick medication.
She then said She was gonna be in and out today moving her boxes to storage. And If I could put in an extra 2 pieces of chicken for her. I said sure. I was also trying to think of ways to validate but no instances came up. Then she made reference to my sons baseball game where I will be coaching. She said she can walk the dog tonight if I don't take him. I said Thanks.
On a side note I feel that she has made no effort to reach out to S almost like she no longer has that maternal instinct to bond and keep this relationship with him. I still don't get it.
As she is leaving she says she has hired 2 guys to help he move Thursday morning. Not what I wanted to hear but - I just stayed positive and said ok then. Then again I said I better get get cracking i got a game to prepare for. so i upped and left. Man i hope I am doing this right?
So now it looks like she is in the final stages of moving out. My focus as always is myself , my S, DB, 180, LRT and validate. Can I do anymore? Thanks again.
S85 thanks so much for taking great interest.
Vanilla - I so value your response coming from a womans perspective.
Yesterday night went ok. I had to coach my S baseball team and when S came home from school W was gone. S and I had dinner and headed to his game. During this bad period after BD I had felt I have lost my ability to laugh. My sense of humor- it seemed to have vanished. Often times these thoughts of failure and negativity creep in and invade my mind. So the situation is, I m coaching at first base S is at the plate and stings a solid hit to right center. Now my S is a good ball player and one of the quickest on the team. The ball goes to the wall my son stands there and admires his hit. He runs to first and rounds the base and comes back to first. I say to him
I am glad you got those season tickets by home plate so that you could see all the hits real good!- next time remember this is not a spectator sport , get on your horse -you should have been on third.
I look over and the 1st base ump is killing himself. Good to see my old self coming back.
We won the game and we get home. W is watching TV. She sees us walk in as my dog greets us at the door.
She says
The school left a message on the machine that the senior band will be playing a concert on Wednesday at our main theatre did you get tickets
S takes off upstairs to go shower , I was in the process of putting the baseball stuff away in the basement and keep going. I stayed downstairs and after his shower S come to me and asks did you hear what mom asked? I said yes, you need to take ownership and be upfront with her , tell her the truth and let her know how you feel. I will go with you and I will support you.
So we head up W is still watching TV and I ask for her attention b/c S wanted to address something. She lowered the volume and said
Ok whats up?
S said
I have a concert but I do not want you to attend because you hurt me, I hope you can respect my wishes
W responds emotionless, I would have liked to see you but if that is what you want I will respect your wishes S continues upstairs.
This is bothersome to me because if you have been reading my stich, the woman I married would cry at Disney movies. The S she gave birth to just told her don t come to be with me and she did not even flinch. It has been this way since BD. She has not reached out to him, not try to console him. It seems she hell bent on getting out of this relationship. She just walks around like a zombie ,no emotions. Does she not feel a shred of guilt or a sense of significant loss because my S does not want her near?
From this encounter and others like this , I am feeling less and less attracted to my W. She has put on more weight- been the heaviest I ve seen her since pregnancy (I have never said this- I know it would hurt her). She is wearing frumpy clothing and not taking care of herself. She is not following thru with our Christian beliefs. This is not the same woman I married. Is this feeling occurring because I am detaching ?
Help me to understand.
She is clearly depressed.
Can you not see that?
"This is bothersome to me because if you have been reading my stich, the woman I married would cry at Disney movies."
One of the things sandi told me early on that really opened my eyes is something I will repeat to you right now: She is no longer the woman you married.
LW, it is tough, I know, but you have to realize that simple fact. Maybe she is depressed like Cadet suggests. Maybe she just is tired of putting other's needs above her own. Maybe she has had her conscience seared with a hot iron (Biblical reference). Who knows. But if you try to deal with her like she was still the woman you married you will be in for a lot of frustration and confusion.
Also, maybe she has just given up on life. You see people like that all the time out and about. They wear sweatpants to the grocery store. They look like they haven't showered in days or even weeks. She is 50 now and maybe she feels like her life is over.
I saw my wife struggle with turning 50. Also, following BD she was not the woman I married. Even now, though she has come a long way since mid-Feb, she still is not the same as she used to be. I recently said to her, "wow, you are so much more blunt than you used to be!" (This was after she said something about someone else, not directed at me.) Her answer: "I find I don't have much life left to waste time beating around the bush."
I just posted in another thread how milestone ages (30,40,50) really can affect women. I don't see it as much in men (yes I know men have MLCs but not necessarily tied to a specific age). I say all of this because sometimes we are pretty hard on our WAWs/WWs. But they may be going through feelings they don't understand either. I know you are a man of faith. Remember our command as husbands is to love our Ws like Christ loves the church. So continue to love her no matter what. That doesn't mean you have to accept everything she does, but you should always be there to help her if she needs it.
Just to piggyback on that comment. The milestone age thing is so true. My wife began to struggle the moment she hit 30 - that was the onset of her MLC (we even joked about it before it turned serious) that led to her checking out and giving me the BD.
Why is it that women are more affected by those arbitrary numbers?
It does sound like your wife is depressed. Letting go, and letting her heal herself is so hard, but necessary. Take care of yourself and your son. Hang in there!
Why is it that women are more affected by those arbitrary numbers?
Biology
I just posted in another thread how milestone ages (30,40,50) really can affect women.
My W turned 30 at the end of October, and I got the BD at the beginning of January. I truly believe a lot of it has to do with this. It's strange...
s85 thanks for your interest in my thread
Vanilla -your responses are so helpful coming from a womans perspective.
Well yesterday night was ok. I coach S baseball team so we ate dinner and headed out to the game. One of the things since BD that has happened is that I have lost my ability to laugh. It is like my sense of humor disappeared. Situation - I am coaching at 1st base. S is a good ball player and one of the fastest on the team. S hits the ball solidly into right center to the fence- while admiring it from the plate. He takes off late rounds 1st and then returns to 1st. I jokingly say, " It is a good thing you got those season tickets right close to home plate cuz it alllows you to see all the hits real good! Nest time when you hit the ball get on your horse cuz u should be at third!" I looked over at the 1st base ump and he is killing himself laughing.
So we won the game and head home. We get into the door and are greeted by my awesum dog. W is watching Tv and turns around to say" the school lest a message on our machine about the senior band concert this Wed at the main theatre- did you get tickets?" S plays the sax.
S heads upstairs to take his shower, while i head downstairs to put away the ball equipment. After his shower S comes down and asks me did you hear what W was asking? I responded by saying" you need to take ownership be honest and let her know how you feel. I will go with you to support you.
So we upstairs, w is still watching. I get her attention by saying S wants to speak to her. She turns around , lowers the volume and says OK. S says " I have a concert but I don't want you to go because you hurt me. I would like it if you respect my wishes. W says emotionless,- I would have liked to go but if that is what you want then I will not attend. With out blinking an eye lash. No feelings of hurt , remorse guilt or even a feeling of significant loss with the possibility of losing my S.
The more I think of it - the more I see that my W is more and more unattractive to me. Is this a stage or is this from detaching?
Now this afternoon I came back from the gym -W looks more like she wants to talk more now that I have pulled back. I had plans to meet up with a friend from the gym for coffee. My wife asks if I could talk - I said -i can't I'm busy maybe later. She then starts to tell me her plans for the day how she is going to the storage locker and doing stuff and then coming home for dinner.after BD she would never tell me where she was going. why now? I trying to stay positive said I gotta get some info before I leave - let me check this out real quick. So I upped and left and so my friend calls while I'm a walking off and in a real positive tone we speak.I tried to act like I was moving on (GAL). She stood there for a sec and walked away. Not much more for me to do. If there is please let me know
sorry for the repeat post-
S85 -so wise...
Ephesians 5:25-
For husbands, this means love your wives, just as Christ loved the church. He gave up his life for her.
Genesis 2:24
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
He who loves his wife loves himself.
Simply put- be humble and be mindful of each others needs.
Cadet- Steve85-Davide-MTB -Vanilla thanks for your support and interest in my thread. Your information is appreciated.
W just said she got the key to her apartment and is going over to clean it up and stay there the night. She said she will be popping back to pick up the rest of her stuff periodically. I know I have to set some boundaries but legally her name is still on title so she has a right to the matrimonial home. Please give me insight on how this can be properly handled. Thanks
LoneWlf - Ideally you would jointly list what she can remove. This isn't an ideal world.
My ex told me in advance what she was going to take. A spare kitchen table, a couple of chairs. I came home to a house that was largely gutted of much of the furniture, pretty much all the antiques and collectibles, the better pieces of artwork, most of the food from the refrigerator and yes, the blanket off my bed that she hadn't slept in for several months.
I danced naked in the living room that night because I didn't need to worry about tripping over any furniture. Then I closed the curtains
After being gone for about 8 months and after I told her that I was done waiting for her she made another few "shopping trips" through the house picking up stuff that I had packed for her (we had sooo much "stuff") and also helping herself to other things.
After we had our separation agreement done, I agreed that she could take one final trip through the house with S23 (who had moved home with me) as a guide. S23 was given the instructions that if we weren't using it, I didn't care. I had surveillance video set up and it captured her taking souvenirs from the office. She obliged S23 to sign a list where it listed some stuff that she took, but not what was shown on camera.
Sigh. How she ever managed to fit it all in her apartment I have no idea as I'm pretty sure that she hasn't moved in with OM much less started storing her crap there.
A key thing presuming that you are headed towards divorce - which I know is not your wish - is that whatever she takes from the matrimonial home that was not a gift counts against "her side" so documenting is fairly important. Ideally if she takes "valuable" things that you don't care about then that's a good thing.
I would suggest go around the house with a camera / your phone and take pictures of everything you can think of. Include serial numbers. If in doubt, just open a drawer and take a picture of it.
Personally I was glad that I wasn't here when my ex emptied the house. It would have been extremely painful and it's just "stuff". When she texted me later essentially asking if I was OK with what she took I didn't answer directly but replied that there was only one thing she'd removed from the house that I regretted and that was herself.
Some people recommend having a trusted friend there to supervise. One who could be unbiased but also one that she would accept. Could you perhaps have one of the people from your faith community do that duty?
She's going to take more "stuff" than you expect. You'll want to limit future access - how can you tell if it was her or that you'd been robbed? So set specific times when she can have supervised access to the matrimonial home. Yes, it is the matrimonial home but it is
joint property and neither of you can make unilateral decisions on it - legally speaking that is. Theoretically it could be argued that she cannot remove
any matrimonial property until a binding separation agreement is set. That would go over like a lead balloon I'm sure.
And yeah - it's just stuff.
Andrew P -I would like to meet up with you if our ever in Mississauga again. I have alot to learn from you.
Today turned out pretty good woke up early said my prayers and devotionals. Dropped S to school and went to the gym. Got home and did some online job hunting I have 2 interviews this week. ! next week
W came in the afternoon and started to pack. I needed a break so I took out my awesum dog for an hour long walk. What a beautiful day. Kept interactions with W to a minimal. The whole time I was in good spirits- had a little glide in my stride.
I had a bite to eat and got ready for my S senior band concert at the main theater. Put on some music like I use to and got ready. I put on some new clothes i picked up over the weekend. Gotta say After loosing over 50 lbs from the gym now having 17 inch biceps. I can easily say"nailed it!". i still have a ways to go but I am on the right path.I did not care what W was doing just in an overall good mood to go see my S play sax tonight. Last year he had a couple solo parts this year none. For those that don't know My S asked my W not to go because he feels hurt by her wanting to break up the family. My intent for being in a good mood is by no means is rubbing this in her face.
W will stay here to finish packing because she is moving out tomorrow. Now I feel that may be difficult experience. Wish me luck> Thanks for all your support and feedback.
Actually the more an ex takes the easier it is. The big house was full to the brim of stuff.
The G was a bit of a hoarder and the cupboards were full of his stuff, lots and lots of stuff. I packed his stuff and filled a huge storage locker which was without furniture just stuff and more stuff and even more stuff.
As I have found stuff it has been posted to him but it's less and less these days. But still I posted it. It isn't mine.
It is useful to lose his stuff. Feels good to be rid of it.
I have moved on from stuff. And I buy second hand.
The G had aged when I last saw him, and I looked like a movie star! Not really but I felt better than ever.
I wanted to comment on the age thing and generalising. It ain't true for many of us, ok!
Don't guess or assume.
My own view is that these things are triggered by events not age. For instance that grey hair, or wrinkle or unflattering picture. Not by the number.
It's how you compare to others of your peers. And to how you expected to be, that gets you down.
Wanted or not an S or D will get the walkaway down. Reality bites. She is giving up the certain for the uncertain. It is grief you are seeing in my opinion.
As YOU detach so you are independently evaluating W, comparing her to her peers. It's called the sexual market place. And it will happen, it's inevitable.
My thoughts
V
Thanks for chiming in Vanilla and S85-You guys are right it's just stuff.
I went with my sister to the concert and it turned out pretty good. There were a couple times that I would get caught thinking wow look at all the families here smiling and look at me with my broken family. Hopefully it gets better sooner.
Now she is leaving me with a lot of stuff - My S toys when he was really young. Old things she leaving behind. We both gathered a lot of things. Eventually it will be up to me to discard these things. Shall I stipulate that she will have to pay half the junk removal fees at the time? You guys said to treat this like a business deal.
In regards to popping back in. Now at this time I want to create space and time away. My S wants little to do with her. So I am thinking of setting up a boundary that she cannot just come around unannounced- She has to call or text first to set up a time and get confirmation from me or S. I don't want her to just show up. Is there anything else I should mention? Thanks again
LW, prayers for you and your S, and for your W that she wakes up to what she is doing.
As far as the junk removal fees, I'd say just take care of it. During this next phase you want your dealings with her to be as positive as possible. I know this is against DBing, but due to being a Christian, I think when things get to this point that you should just kill her with kindness. No matter what she says or does, be kind. It doesn't mean you have to be a doormat, but try to be so sweet to her that she won't know what to do.
Romans 12:19-21 19Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. 20Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. 21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
Steve 85 Thank you so much for prayers-I sooo need them right now! In regards to killing them with kindness. Shortly after BD with the encouragement from a fellow Christian - I did the love Dare. This was before I got to this site and the DR book. At the time it really surprised me that this had little effect on a Godly woman. Now being on this site and being better educated I can see somewhat why. I tried the killing with kindness with little effect. I now look good but often times I'm emotionally exhausted. So what next?
What do you think about this popping in boundary that I mentioned in the previous post? Are there any other boundaries that I should be aware of?
Please pray for my S- He said he cannot go to school today because he feels too broken. I looked in the spare room where W was staying and packed her things. Looks like she is leaving all family photos and all photos of S. Kinda strikes me as odd- makes me feel that she wants to rid her life of me and S. For a woman who so claimed she loved us and o walk away like this doesn't make sense.
On a side note S85, with you being a christian brother- and you giving your W a year. If you file the D doesn't that go against God's will? I am not here to judge. Let he without sin be the first to cast a stone ( I'm at the back of the line). Just want to get your take.
LW, yes I have struggled with ever filing for D. When I spoke to a lawyer about 6 weeks in to our sitch, I almost felt dirty afterward. (Of course, that could just have been due to talking to a lawyer! I kid I kid!)
The 1 year thing was on the advice of another anti-divorce author (not MWD). She preaches even tougher love than MWD for a WW. And her goal is that you do not allow limbo to linger for years. She recommends a one year deadline with the theory being that the WW really doesn't want to give up the cozy, secure life they have with their H, but just wants to run wild for a while.
I do not think I will ever have to file. I have stated on this forum before that due to my beliefs, the only time D is justified is due to physical infidelity. When it is not physical, but just emotional and visual (photos and videos) the line gets a lot more blurry. Yes I know that Christ said that looking on someone and lusting is committing adultery in your heart, but adultery of the heart isn't given as grounds for divorce. Sexual sin (called fornication in the King James) is.
So yes, very good question. Of course, D is a legal proceeding, not a spiritual one, so the real problem with D for anything other than adultery, is remarrying since you haven't been "loosed" from your MR by God.
Just blew it! Emotions are getting the best of me. I pretty sure she sees I'm visually disturbed. S is here but is just emotionless. this all feels surreal. I'm waiting for this bad dream to end. kinda feels like the beginning of the end. W came in movers are here. And now she is asking for 1 month to get all her stuff out- not sure how to handle this because I feel the sooner the dark or NC the better things will get. Just my take. Any advice will help.
I need to get positive I have a job interview this afternoon
A month seems like quite along time to get her stuff out. If she's there today with movers, I would assume she could get the majority of her stuff out today. If I were you, I'd tell her after today she should have most of it out and give her until the end of the weekend to tie up any loose ends...
Stay cool, Wolf... You've got this...
Damn this is so hard! To see my S visibly disraught.He is truly hurting. Increasing my emotions of wanting to lash out to let her see the damage she is doing to our S. My inner pain. The one time we went to MC he said to read the 5 Languages of Love. After BD I started to think about this hard. And while doing the Love Dare which incorporates allot ob the LL. I came to the conclusion my W did not do much. I even asked her at one point can you show me times where you -
used words of encouragement..
acts of kindness..
Physical touch..
quality time..
thoughtful gifts..
to each of these she couldn't think of anything.
I was able to give her many examples of what i did..
That's why I feel she quit..
Remember, this is all part of the journey, not the destination. I'd give her the 1 month. If nothing else it will ensure in person contact again at some point where you can show her the awesome that LW has become. Try try try to be emotionless with her around all of this. She is expecting to be upset, angry and hurt. If you show her calm, cool, in control she will take note.
LoneWlf, just wanted to drop in and say I am praying for your S (and you and your sitch, of course). I have a younger brother who was the exact same age as yours when my mom had an A and declared she was leaving my dad. My brother helped my dad for about six months trying to do all kinds of things to make my mom happy so she wouldn't leave (none of this was DB approved or probably healthy at all, but it's what happened). It was really hard for him, and it didn't help that he was the only reason she stuck around in the house at all. He was very upset when she never came around and remained resolved about leaving, felt she never really tried etc.
Anyway, it's been a couple years now. My brother and mom are coming together to visit me at the end of June. Their relationship has improved a lot from that low point and I'm sure he still has emotional scars as we all do, but he is doing well.
44 thanks for your support brother!! It stings and hurts like heck !! To see him in anguish. i would do anything to take away his pain. Too bad W is too far gone to see that. I'm gonna be needing
some serious help to get thru the next while> Heartfelt thanks to ALL !!
Hey 44 how long did it take your brother to soften his heart and talk with your mom?
update- I had a good interview - they want to schedule a second interview with more of the team for next week. I think it went pretty good.
Came home and S seems depressed and does not want to do anything. Tried to get to walk the dog with me, Practice his pitching, or go grab something to eat- he says he doesn't fell like doing anything.
Most of her stuff is gone but W wanted to come back later today to get the rest of her things on the kitchen table. I'm pretty sure she saw that I was not myself. hard to be positive when it feels like the final nail in the coffin. I tried to put some things that were left out by W away but feel as if I am in haze and cannot think straight.
Kinda feeling battered and defeated. W has not pushed for any separation agreement in a while- makes me wonder whats up, when she was adamant to have it done before she moved out.
How do you keep moving forward when you feel you just got run over by a car and now it seems there is a steady supply of transport truck directly in front of you. the light at the end of the tunnel is an oncoming train.
In all my daily spiritual readings- the statement that keeps that seems o stand out most is " have faith- Trust in the Lord".
I guess this is what I have to do now.. for I am a believer ..
So yesterday W says that she would be back last nite to pick some other stuff after 4pm. This is because I asked for her key to the house back to respect my privacy. I get a text from her last nite to say she cannot come last nite and will come in the morning. I waited a hour to respond. My response was simple and business like. simply stating to come between 12and 2 or after 6. She has not responded yet. Should i send her a text to get a time cuz or is that pursuit? Please advise..Thanks
Yes, tell her that the windows of opportunity were opportunities and that a time needs to be confirmed. Business-like is the proper approach. Keep pursuing in check but she needs to understand that your home is not an open door sitch.
RR- thanks for the clarification.
I'd like an honest opinion please. I most curious as to the opinion of the WAS/WW/WAW please? Earlier in my stitch I mentioned that My W moved most of her possessions out yesterday. Upon entering the spare room which she barricaded herself in, I have noticed some peculiar things..
We have 3 family bibles (1 which is hers) all were left behind.
All family photo books and pictures were left behind
All photos of S were left behind-I don't think she took any
I made her a Memories binder of cards, concert tickets, love letters and keepsakes.. this too was left behind..
Do I read into this as she wants a clean break and wants to leave the past in the past. Meaning she is totally DONE?
Do I read into this as these wonderful memories are just a painful reminder of what was..It hurts too much..
Do I read into this as there maybe a OM and he may not like these reminders in her new apartment. Not sure what to believe.
I'm kinda going crazy cuz without W here when I walk around my home it's like i feel there is something drastically missing. Almost like the walls are missing.
Please help me to understand?
Don't read. Let go of control.
RR thanks for your response - with all due respects -i'm having trouble on how this could be controlling. I would welcome anybody elses take on this question ..
Bump
am I wrong to even ask this?
I'd like an honest opinion please. I most curious as to the opinion of the WAS/WW/WAW please? Earlier in my stitch I mentioned that My W moved most of her possessions out yesterday. Upon entering the spare room which she barricaded herself in, I have noticed some peculiar things..
Family Memorabilia
We have 3 family bibles (1 which is hers) all were left behind.
All family photo books and pictures were left behind
All photos of S were left behind-I don't think she took any
I made her a Memories binder of cards, concert tickets, love letters and keepsakes.. this too was left behind..
Do I read into this as she wants a clean break and wants to leave the past in the past. Meaning she is totally DONE?
Do I read into this as these wonderful memories are just a painful reminder of what was..It hurts too much..
Do I read into this as there maybe a OM and he may not like these reminders in her new apartment. Not sure what to believe.
I'm kinda going crazy cuz without W here when I walk around my home it's like i feel there is something drastically missing. Almost like the walls are missing.
Please help me to understand?
_________________________
To read into this is to try mindreading her. Any or all of those guesses could be right. All 3 could be right simultaneously. Who knows. WWs are tricky creatures.
Anyway, I know it is difficult but you have to try to let go. Knowing the answer to your question isn't going to bring her back. You being awesome might. So GAL, 180, detach, and be the best LW you can be.
RR thanks for your response - with all due respects -i'm having trouble on how this could be controlling. I would welcome anybody elses take on this question ..
LV, I going to respond because I believe it is the right thing to do. I know you want to get insight from someone that has had a state of mind like your W. As steve said, it may be right, it may be wrong. There is no accurate vision into the mind of your W right now.
This is also Controlling. It is. You can not control this thread. You can't control your W. You can try, but what is the point?
Detach, and I mean this in the kindest way. Don't let Ws actions affect your state. Not now. If she is doing crazy, out of caricature stuff, she is being a typical WW stuff.
I sent you a link weeks ago, that sandi wrote about the mind of the WW/WAW. That sums it up.
You know what you need to do. Detach. Let her do her thing. TRY not to judge each and every bad choice. I know it's hard. It's your job right now.
If she wants to damage her R with her son, it's beyond your control.
Only God knows if she will be able to restore it.
Not you LW.
Think about this. Even if one of these wonderful ex-WWs were to say, lw, here is the insight that will unlock the key to the mystery of your Ws current thoughts. What are you going to do with that?
It shouldn't affect your actions.
It may or may not be accurate. All they have is your side of the story and may or may not have a real accurate read on any given sitch.
Any attempt to interrupt these action is controlling. It is.
Let W be W and you be LW.
Yes, I know it [censored].
I believe you will one day see my point. I hope sooner than later.
Peace brother. Let go, let God.
Don't read. Let go of control.
This.
She has scrambled eggs for brains, makes sense to her even in idiocy land.
V
Family Memorabilia
We have 3 family bibles (1 which is hers) all were left behind.
All family photo books and pictures were left behind
All photos of S were left behind-I don't think she took any
I made her a Memories binder of cards, concert tickets, love letters and keepsakes.. this too was left behind..
Do I read into this as she wants a clean break and wants to leave the past in the past. Meaning she is totally DONE?
Do I read into this as these wonderful memories are just a painful reminder of what was..It hurts too much..
Do I read into this as there maybe a OM and he may not like these reminders in her new apartment. Not sure what to believe.
LW,
I can agree with you on the need to understand why, and how someone could leave their entire life behind like that. Its maddening. My WW did the same thing. I moved our entire house into storage when i left our aprtment because i couldnt afford it without her.
After a few weeks when she had acsess to the storage unit, she came and got only what she wanted.
She left behind the following (in piles on the floor, in puddles even)
Every decoration she hand made for our wedding.
Our "Guest book" from the wedding
Her Wedding Dress (literally in a muddy puddle on the floor)
A family photo album containing childhood photos of her, her parents and deceased grandparents. Prints that cannot be duplicated.
She did however take the $8 in Scottish money out of it first. (Really?!)
Toys and clothes from when our son was a baby.
Gifts i had given her.
my point is this. The WW doesn't care at all for the life they had, they MAY someday change their tune on that. However the longer you sit around waiting and expecting that return the longer you will be in misery.
I struggled for a long time to let go of the rope as they say.
I was discarded in a very cold and callous way, less than a year into our marriage.
Dont try and understand, she doesn't know the answers to the questions you are asking any more than you do. It will drive you nuts to try and understand that which is illogical.
I still struggle with this, as my mind works in a very logical and surgical way.
Keep your mind on other things until the sting isn't so prevalent. It is awful, but it will happen eventually.
Eat. Sleep. Excersize. Start doing things you let fall to the back burner because you were busy being a husband and dad.
in the words of one of my favorite shows.
"TREAT YO SELF"
It's very painful for you to see her carelessly cast aside those things that once meant the world. She is not the girl she once was. The family Bible is just an old book, now. The photos and keepsakes of wonderful times in the past, mean nothing to her now. It's dead weight.
Do I read into this as these wonderful memories are just a painful reminder of what was..It hurts too much..
Do I read into this as there maybe a OM and he may not like these reminders in her new apartment. Not sure what to believe.
Sorry.......but, no. She left them behind b/c
she did not want them.
If you want to keep them, pack them away. Don't torture yourself over the craziness of waywards.
Wow!!S85-RR-orange-Vanilla-Sandi2
nothing against the guys - but special thanks to Sandi and Vanilla. Everytime I read on of your post from any stitch- Your advice is so on point and impactful. Thank you for taking interest in helping me out.
You all are so right!!! As painful as it is. My focus needs to be on me and my S. I just came home from going 10 pin bowling with my S , his 2 cousins and my brother and sister. Man , It was soo nice to see him smile and laugh again. We started with regular of bowling which I won with a score of 158. Then my S and his cousins changed the rules to only using the lightest ball and your weak hand, doing trick shots with the bumpers up. You got points on creativity. We did bank shots, double bank shots, reverse spin, between the legs, no look shots, between the legs.We were all cracking up!! Of course everyone loved this game.
W sent me a text that she will be by Monday afternoon to pick up more things. I had nothing planned so I confirmed with a text a couple hours after. I mentioned to my S that mom was coming Monday- I also asked him for his input on how he would feel if I would invite W to stay for bbq because it was around dinner time? OR how would he feel if W asked if she could have dinner with us?
His response was simply- I don't want to have dinner with her. Guess that was the end of our conversation.
My hope was to keep the family intact for a meal. Is that pursuit?
Yes it is not only pursuit but crusading.
As long as she can keep coming back collecting 'stuff' this game will play out. You don't go in her space and she doesn't invade your and S. Your S is adulting for you in this. And it isn't his decision anyway. Cease asking him his opinion it will drive a wedge. You are the parent, keep him out of your R with W it is called triangulation, it is very poor.
You and S can have privacy. Is there an outhouse you can leave her things, can you send them on, put them in storage?
Time to draw the line and stand your side of it.
V
LW, if you aren't going to focus on you at least show W that life without her goes on.
Get busy. Have fun. Leave S out of it.
I think that you know that inviting her to a BBQ is pursuing.
Do I read into this as she wants a clean break and wants to leave the past in the past. Meaning she is totally DONE?
Yes, that is EXACTLY what it means. And she is probably leaving that stuff behind to send a clear message to you that she is done. That is her state of mind right now, that doesn't mean she won't change her mind in the future but for now she is resolute and you need to accept that. I know it hurts, but try to keep in mind this doesn't mean you shouldn't have hope. It will take months or even a year or more but her position WILL soften. She'll start to remember the marriage had good moments, and she may start reaching out again. But that's way down the road and right now you've got to let this play out as her being "done". Remove all pressure. Leave her alone. No pursuit, no talking about the M, no reaching out to her at all unless it's kid-related.
Do I read into this as these wonderful memories are just a painful reminder of what was..It hurts too much..
She has zero wonderful memories of the M right now. All she can remember is the bad stuff. She has blinders on.
I'm kinda going crazy cuz without W here when I walk around my home it's like i feel there is something drastically missing. Almost like the walls are missing.
You'll get used to it and maybe even come to embrace it. When my ex left me our 3 kids were all still at home. I went from a busy house full of activity to it just being me there every other week. It was incredibly lonely. But I worked hard on GAL and slowly over time I came to appreciate those weeks for different reasons. I of course cherished the weeks I had the kids that much more, but the weeks I didn't have them were filled with activities too.
This whole thing is an extreme shock to the system and our tendency is to want to "fix" it all and "put it back to normal". But you've got to change your mindset, your goal isn't to go back to normal but rather establish a "new normal". There's no going back to what you had, it's gone. There might be a new R with your W in the future, but for now you've got to go about the business of building your new life.
For all of you that given some valuable information- I truly appreciate your support. You guys do not know how much that means to me. Thank you.
W is coming by to pick up some things today and I'm not looking forward to it. I know that I will not follow her around- I will do my my own thing- I will be dressed well - smell good. My place is cleaned up. Now I know that she may want a clean break-this is like a dagger to my heart. How do I get thru this? Any help would be appreciated.
I mentioned to my S that mom was coming Monday- I also asked him for his input on how he would feel if I would invite W to stay for bbq because it was around dinner time? OR how would he feel if W asked if she could have dinner with us?
His response was simply- I don't want to have dinner with her. Guess that was the end of our conversation.
My hope was to keep the family intact for a meal. Is that pursuit?
You can't keep the family intact with a meal, family events, celebrations, traditions, family vacations, or any other activity........when you try to include the WW. She tore it apart, so now, you and son will have to have a separate family unit from her. You will need to carry on and make new traditions, plan vacations, and have activities without her. Life doesn't stop simply b/c she is no longer there.
Yes, inviting her to anything is big time pursuit. Let me tell what pursuit looks like to a WW. Any show of interest from the H, is pursuit in the opinion of a WW. Any sign of concern for her.....with very few exceptions (when living under the same roof and she is too sick to cook herself some soup, it would be okay for him to fix some soup). Trying to just be friendly, can be interpreted as pursuit. The H who tries to comfort or show empathy for his WW, can be misunderstood as pursuing. When the H warmly engages in a conversation, the WW can see it as pursuit, if he gets too wordy or tries to carry on too long with the conversation. Initiating calls, text messages, emails, etc........or even responding with "wordy" texts, is a common mistake. Many talkative H's have to be very careful about using too many words. Sometimes, even a smile can be interpreted as pursuit.......like if you seem too excited to see her. Some of these actions may not be
your definition of pursuit, or even an example given in a dictionary, ....... however, it would considered pursuing behavior to the WW. This is based on my own personal experience, what I have read and heard from other WW's, the information I've researched about wayward (or hard hearted) wives, and the countless stories I have read for the past eleven years.
The quicker you let go of her and stop trying to fix what she has broken, the faster you will get yourself together and start having a life again. Am I telling you to get a D and that there is no hope for the M? No, that's not what I am saying. You need to stop thinking like a desperate LBH, and start thinking as a strong, alpha male, who is independent of his W. And, who is not trying to save something with his WW.
Don't try to make her have regrets or any other
feelings. Don't try to trigger memories in her. A WW sees right through those type of actions from the H. If anything, it makes her rebell worse. I don't
recall seeing a newcomer who understood the mindset of his wayward W by the end of his first thread. The betrayed H will often learn from his bad experiences.......but in the beginning he just cannot accept that she no longer thinks, feels, or behaves like the woman he knew as his W. He doesn't grasp how illogical she really is. Even though he sees it time after time, he continues to believe she'll have the feelings of a normal human being.......a normal, responsible mother......a normal, responsible adult daughter (or whatever family ties she has)........etc., etc. She won't. Nothing will make sense to you. She is not the same girl you M, or else she deceived you for a very long time.
If she walked in today and announced she was back.....would you be excited? I'm sure you would tell us that you know it will take work......yada......yada......yada. But I wonder if you are so focused on getting your family back together (you, son, & wife), that you would see it as some kind miracle.....and be very happy about it. I don't think that will happen, but if it did......it would be very unwise to let her waltz back in without having met certain specifications, requirements (whatever you want to call it). She is very caught up in this new "religion".....maybe more than someone who is an affair. It's new, exciting, a little taboo in the eyes of some.....daring, etc. She gets a thrill and has emotionally invested everything to get fulfillment from all of this stuff. So, I would caution you about letting her come back too easily. I say that to anyone who has a WW, but this situation has another ingredient. She may never completely give it up. How would you feel about it, if she wanted to come home......and keep her new found religion? If things in her life got hard enough, and nobody else would take her in.......she might try to come home. It's happened in other cases. The unsuspecting, and/or uneducated H (educated in the ways of WW's) would be so happy to just get his W back home that he didn't question anything. Big mistake!
When she left, it was against what you wanted or had to say about it. If she returns to the home, it needs to be in accordance to what you have to say. IMHO, there should be no returning to the home without reconciliation in the MR, and a full understanding and agreement to the terms. If the W was wayward, it is my opinion, she should not get to call the call shots (terms). Sadly, too many H's are way too eager to just get his W back within the four walls......and the problems remains in the MR. Now this is something I've shared with
you, but you don't need to repeat to
her. (I say this b/c many H's repeat things from the board that should not be stated to his WW).
Everybody thank you again! Sandi those words were very tough to read. Is shows me I have a LONG way to go. Man it looks like she is DONE. This minimizes my hope- but as you all say, If i work on me to be the best me then in the end I still win with or without W.
She just sent me a text that she took longer and If i was home > I texted back yes thinking she would come shortly. She never showed up so I called her because My S has a baseball game tonight.>It was very business like and simple . She said she was home and that She did not see my return text and got caught up in what she was doing. She wanted to come by tomorrow after work to pick up more of her things. Go through the basement of endless clutter. I was the first to drop the conversation saying alright me and S have to go. She said she will text me after work tomorrow. Pray for me b/c I find this is the hardest thing I have ever done in my life!!
LW
Set a boundary, she can collect her stuff on x day at X time for y hours.
Anything else you will pack up and she can collect on z day at n pm. After that it's put into store. No more visits.
My thoughts
V
Vanilla and Sandi you guys give out some tough advice. I guess it is from a stance of tough love.
I guess I struggle to much from NGS- that is why I have trouble putting my foot down. My S knew my W was coming here today and it sort of puts him in a off mood. Last night he was the starting pitcher for his ball team - seems he could not get her out of his head. He had his worst game so far. This morning he said he did not sleep well and would not be able to concentrate at school b/c he was feeling empty and hopeless.
I told him to take his emotion and instead of keeping them inside to write them down. He wrote W a letter and showed me the partial draft. It starts..
Dear Stranger,
The pain that you brought unto me never relents and stays with me 24hrs a day. Not an hour goes by where I do not feel every extreme emotion. I feel empty inside and not only do I feel emotionally empty but that I am just a beating heart with a hole inside me draining me of all that was good. Everything reminds me of the events in my life and I could I would escape it by walking to the end of the earth but I would still not be able to forget.
I used to always have a smile on my face but now I walk through life feeling unsure of the world knowing there is a very few people I can trust now. I am angered at you as
I feel as though you only care about yourself by giving your troubles to me.
This so far is what he showed me..
I feel so hurt for him...please pray for us.. also pray for my W salvation -Thank you..
I hope he gives it to her. Unless she has gone completely cold I can't imagine any mother not feeling pain from a note like that.
WW WAWs have a new reality. Anything reminding them of the past that doesn't support this new reality is a threat. Bad memories support the new reality. Good memories threaten. Pursuing threatens.
It like arguing politics. No amount of reason or logic will change their minds. They have to change their own minds. That doesn't mean we can't help.
The blueprints are in these threads. Our egos and intuition are our enemies.
Steve85 you say you hope he gives it to her.
RR you say no amount of logic will change their minds.
I'm not sure how to encourage S on what to do with letter now.
What is most devastating to me is how W walks around with no emotion almost oblivious to how anybody but herself is feeling. There is very little interaction with me ( that's good because I want to go dark) but she won't even try to reach out to S. Almost like its ok to sever the blood tie. My poor S has got IC but he still is struggling to make sense about whats going on. Anyways W is supposed to come tonight- wish me luck
Thank you everybody for your prayers and continued support- God bless!!
This minimizes my hope- but as you all say, If i work on me to be the best me then in the end I still win with or without W.
My intentions were not to decrease your hope, but to explain that you are not approaching your sitch in the right way. The LBH could almost do the opposite of what his emotions tell him.....and come closer to doing what he needs to do when a WW is in the picture.
Think back to the days long before you ever had a thought about getting M. How would you have responded to some female who treated you like cr@p and than cheated on you? I'd be interested in knowing. Was she the only girl you ever dated? Were you ever in another long term relationship?
Currently, thinking of her in terms of her being your wife, can mess with your head. You'll still think of her as being the girl you M, and she is far from it. Neither will you be able to respond, approach, or interact with her the way you have done in the past. I can assure you that part of the problem today is how you dealt (maybe that's not a suitable word) or interacted with her in the past. Who would you say was mostly in charge? Who gave or apologized first?
Every woman who is in a female-male relationship wants a dominant man. Not domineering, but dominant. If you don't know what I mean, google how to be a dominant man in your relationship, or how a husband acts like a dominant male in marriage.......something along those lines, until you get sufficient information. I wish I could tell what site to pull up, but I can't. Just look around. Also, check out the alpha man. Don't fall for any of that "pick up artist" cr@p. I'm talking about how to be a real alpha man in a
real relationship.......not picking up a one night stand. If the message is to single guys about dating, move on. There are some fairly decent YouTube, too.
If you are a man with Nice Guy Syndrome, you'll need to read everything you can find on the subject. You can't
nice back a wayward W. She'll try to eat cake every chance she gets, so you have to toughen up and learn how to avoid some pitfalls. Depending on how manipulative she may be, as to how much tough love you'll need to apply.....but there is only one thing all WW's respect. Strength! She needs and wants a man who is stronger than she is. She tested you throughout the MR, and saw you were weaker and would not stand up to her. Therefore, she lost respect, and that caused her to lose attraction for you. So, in order to get her back.....you'll have to be much stronger than you've ever been, and then keep it up if she returns. If you can't, you might as well close the books on this M.
One of the first things nice guys usually ask is, "How can I show her I am stronger if we aren't living together"? "How can I show her 180's, if we never see each other"? I'd first say if that's the case then you are lucky. Then I'd say you need time to learn how to deal with a barracuda......so, don't worry about not seeing her enough, if that's the case.
Besides, if you are truly getting a life like there is no tomorrow, she'll hear about it and check to see what's going on. By "check", I mean temperature check you to see how emotionally attached you are to her....and it doesn't usually happen like the H thinks it will. She'll find some reason to contact you, and when she does, you need to be ready. Most H's will report how badly they messed up when the WW temp checks and he'll say it caught him off guard. Once you get a better understanding (well, scratch that, b/c you'll never understand, but you'll learn more what to
expect). I can't say it enough.....get informed.
I believe there is a difference in the wayward wife and a W who was basically driven away from her H, due to his cruelty, imprisonment, addictions, some impossible situation, etc. In other words, the wife who has to leave to protect herself and her children from the husband.....does not have a selfish, hidden agenda. The wayward W is all about herself. She has a huge sense of entitlement, and is motivated by pure selfishness. We have seen some WW's even placing her desires above the welfare of her children. I fully agree with the DR book's advice for the WAS. However, MWD does not separate the wayward from the others, just in case you wonder. She does not use the term "wayward", that I am aware. There are a couple of things I don't think works with a WW. (1) You can't be "friends" with a wayward. You can be polite and civil. Maybe some day down the road, you can even be friend-
ly when you have to interact. However, you can not be her friend. I can explain more later, if you'd like. (2) You cannot draw the WW into reconciliation by doing more family activities with her. If living under the same roof, some things can't be helped (such as eating the evening meal). However, if physically separated, then there should be no problem in not doing any activities as a family with her. You may foresee it as such, but we can discuss it as those things come up.
I have several threads on the mindset of a WW, and what H's should do and not do.....if you'd care to read them. I'll try to answer any questions you may have. I don't pretend to know all the answers....and sometime there's just no way to explain crazy.
Your W's mindset is not logical, therefore, you cannot reason with her. Don't even try.
If I could only write one statement to LBH's with a WW, it would be, "Stop trying to save a MR with a wayward W". Do you find this shocking to read on a D busting board? Well, read it again.....and again..... until it makes sense.
WW WAWs have a new reality. Anything reminding them of the past that doesn't support this new reality is a threat. Bad memories support the new reality. Good memories threaten. Pursuing threatens.
It like arguing politics. No amount of reason or logic will change their minds. They have to change their own minds. That doesn't mean we can't help.
The blueprints are in these threads. Our egos and intuition are our enemies.
RR please don't put the walkaway and the wayward together. Cheaters cheat because they are entitled jerks, they have scrambled eggs for brains. Walkaways are usually more depressed and are thoughtful.
Just saying
Mari
Hey V can you look at my sitch and determine if my W is WAW or WW I am soo confused
sorry to high jack
RR please don't put the walkaway and the wayward together. Cheaters cheat because they are entitled jerks, they have scrambled eggs for brains. Walkaways are usually more depressed and are thoughtful.
V, I know what you are saying.
Many LBS don't know which they have. Many believe the have WAW when there is an OM.
Either way, the advice fits.
Ste7e, Steve85, RR, Sandi and Vanilla you guys are awesome. Thank you for helping me to navigate this difficult time. Your advice is golden.
Think back to the days long before you ever had a thought about getting M. How would you have responded to some female who treated you like cr@p and than cheated on you? I'd be interested in knowing. Was she the only girl you ever dated? Were you ever in another long term relationship?
In the past and even now my default when someone treated me bad was and is - what is wrong with me. I would almost feel at fault immediately. Now prior to this relationship my longest lasting relationship was 3 years. I was in several relationships before my W.
Every woman who is in a female-male relationship wants a dominant man. Not domineering, but dominant. If you don't know what I mean, google how to be a dominant man in your relationship, or how a husband acts like a dominant male in marriage.
I'm having trouble grasping this because one of my W biggest complaints was that I was too controlling. That things had to be done my way. Is not dominant? I'm not sure what to make of this.
Besides, if you are truly getting a life like there is no tomorrow, she'll hear about it and check to see what's going on. By "check", I mean temperature check you to see how emotionally attached you are to her....and it doesn't usually happen like the H thinks it will. She'll find some reason to contact you, and when she does, you need to be ready.
In regards to GAL - I'm getting closer to finding new employment I have 2nd interviews lined up with 2 employers possibly 3. In regards to my health. With the BD I was up to 265lbs- I now go to the gym 6 times a week and at 201lbs with and end goal of 180. That was my weight playing varsity in high school. With the weather being better I will start up my cycling. I have made alot of friends at the gym and am jokingly considered a chick magnet. One of the regulars approached me on the eliptical trainer and told me that he had to loo twice b/c he could not recognize me. I responded by saying I'm still in the process of loosing more weight. He chuckled and said he did not recognize me b/c there were no women around me. I can be very friendly in a social atmosphere. In regard to her hearing about my GAL- I just found out that my W goes out regularly with my SIL ( my oldest brothers wife). They would talk at parties but I find out now that they go out on a regular basis. They were never really close before- why do you think this happened?
If I could only write one statement to LBH's with a WW, it would be, "Stop trying to save a MR with a wayward W". Do you find this shocking to read on a D busting board? Well, read it again.....and again..... until it makes sense. wink
Point taken--but it is easier said then done especially with a process logical mind like mine.
Sandi2 again thank you for your insight and explanation. Sometime s I'm a little too thick as my mom would say. Eventually it will sink in .
Don't confuse alpha and controlling. They are not the same, in fact they are polar opposites.
Men and women who are alpha are strong and have self control, goals, direction and real power. In particular over themselves, they can be romantic, make mistakes as an opportunity for growth and can be strong enough to apologise. Those who are controlling do so because they are weak and get their jollies by being better than another by looking down. The alpha is unafraid to love with passion a controller doesn't even love themselves.
Don't confuse.
My aged pa was one of the most alpha loving men I have ever known, strong enough to love and let others live their lives.
V
I cut an pasted this from one of the threads I cannot remember where...I think it was Sandi
I would say "I'm your husband not your friend and that's how I will keep it in my heart. We can do-parenting if D happens and be cordial, but I can't be your friend, when in my heart I'm meant to be your H. Then let it be. DB, 180, and live your life. But you not about to friend zone me after, I'm your husband and all you've done to me.
She doesn't want to be your W, but she wants some level of connection with you. Not in a romantic/sexual sense, but sort of like an ownership of you. I think 98% of the cases I have read, the WW wants to maintain some type of "friendship" with the H she dumped. However, there is a vital difference in his definition of their friendship......and hers. He thinks their friendship will gradually lead back to a romantic relationship. But she is a user.....a taker.....and she will use him and take advantage, and if he tries to step back or refuse, she claim, "But you said you wanted to be friends". So, it's a no win situation.
What you can do is be civil. Perhaps there will be times you can even show a small level of friendly behavior.......the way you would toward a neighbor that you don't really care to become best buds. Know what I mean? You speak, or wave.......and keep moving.
I wouldn't give her any in depth speech about why. Just say, "Thanks, but no thanks".
I mean.........friends? seriously??
Thank you Vanilla for your clarification.
update
W came by - I stayed very calm an she picked up some of her stuff as I went about and did my thing. I find it odd now that she has to tell me that she is leaving because I was in the basement on the phone when she came down just to say she was headed home.
For this R my W is the primary bread winner (not by choice). I am finishing short term disability.I have some potential jobs lined up. We have joint Checking, savings, and credit cards with me as the primary card holder. No separation agreement in place. I was in charge of finances and paid all the bills.
A couple months ago my W went ahead withdrew over 15k from our savings account( about half). The next day she told me about it and said she thought I might freeze the account. Since that time she has got herself a lease on an apartment, a storage locker, gone on this trip with sis (about 4-5k). I have been monitoring the bank accounts online. I noticed a purchase from a big box store of $1500. Before we had a rule where we would inform each other of all purchases. I'm not sure if this is theft of if she purchased it. Secondly if she burned through 15 K in a matter of months then i need to protect myself and my S. How should I proceed with out making it look threatening or aggressive? Her means of communication now seems to be thru text -should I call her or just text her?
Please advise-thanks!
W came by - I stayed very calm an she picked up some of her stuff as I went about and did my thing. I find it odd now that she has to tell me that she is leaving because I was in the basement on the phone when she came down just to say she was headed home.
Let's talk about this, a bit. Why is it so odd?
When she said she wanted to separate- she became so deceptive. Coming and going as she pleased not saying what she did. Keeping her phone on her person constantly. Taking her spare car keys . Now even before she left it's almost like she has to announce what she does or where she is going. IDK to me that seems odd.
BTW she does not have a key but we have an electronic keypad which locks after 10 seconds. So there was no reason to talk to me.
LW
You need L advice on the fins, what is permissible varies.
However on a practical level I have learned that prepaying bills and loading cash cards is one way that waywards prepare their exit.
V
In the past and even now my default when someone treated me bad was and is - what is wrong with me. I would almost feel at fault immediately. Now prior to this relationship my longest lasting relationship was 3 years. I was in several relationships before my W
This is not a healthy mindset, and I could probably guess at the dynamics in your relationships and hit it pretty close.
Every woman who is in a female-male relationship wants a dominant man. Not domineering, but dominant. If you don't know what I mean, google how to be a dominant man in your relationship, or how a husband acts like a dominant male in marriage.
I'm having trouble grasping this because one of my W biggest complaints was that I was too controlling. That things had to be done my way. Is not dominant? I'm not sure what to make of this.
A dominent male is not the same as a controlling man. Google how to be dominant man in marriage.
In regards to GAL - I'm getting closer to finding new employment
GAL = getting a life. It has absolutely nothing to do with work. It is having fun, doing enjoyable things for yourself, engaging in activities you like......all apart from your W. You can hang out with buddies, go to the movies, workout at the gym, take a trip, go rock climbing.......whatever you want. But it can't be associated with your W.
.
In regard to her hearing about my GAL- I just found out that my W goes out regularly with my SIL ( my oldest brothers wife). They would talk at parties but I find out now that they go out on a regular basis. They were never really close before- why do you think this happened?
Waywardness brings new friends into her life, b/c her lifestyle, morals, and code of conduct has changed.
update-
Woke up early said my prayers . Prepared for my interview. I nailed my second interview and they said the would reach out to me with something in a day or two. I also have 2 interview requests for next week. Had a good workout at the gym- took my dog for a good walk thru the trails. And ate healthy. No word from W ..onto the next day - hopefully some good rest!
Keep it up. Nothing like success feeding on success!
Wolf, the hardest part of DB is learning to not trust your intuition and trust the plan. No, I have not perfected it. Not even close. But I do see the value.
I see it because I tried it the other way years ago.
Don't chase and start becoming the kind of person that the kind of person that you want to be with, would want to be with.
Congratulations on the job front. This is not the only missing piece of the puzzle. Time to look within. This applies to me too.
update-
Woke up early said my prayers . Prepared for my interview. I nailed my second interview and they said the would reach out to me with something in a day or two. I also have 2 interview requests for next week. Had a good workout at the gym- took my dog for a good walk thru the trails. And ate healthy. No word from W ..onto the next day - hopefully some good rest!
LW, one of the things I really think helped turn my sitch around was my success at work. My 2017 performance review was off the chart resulting a huge financial gains, and then right on the heels of that I got promoted. You could see the providence of God involved in both of those since I actually I had a much better 2016 than 2017. And then the position that I got promoted into seem to materialize out of thin air.
So do not underestimate the impact this can have on your W and MR.
Yes, inviting her to anything is big time pursuit. Let me tell what pursuit looks like to a WW. Any show of interest from the H, is pursuit in the opinion of a WW. Any sign of concern for her.....with very few exceptions (when living under the same roof and she is too sick to cook herself some soup, it would be okay for him to fix some soup). Trying to just be friendly, can be interpreted as pursuit. The H who tries to comfort or show empathy for his WW, can be misunderstood as pursuing. When the H warmly engages in a conversation, the WW can see it as pursuit, if he gets too wordy or tries to carry on too long with the conversation. Initiating calls, text messages, emails, etc........or even responding with "wordy" texts, is a common mistake. Many talkative H's have to be very careful about using too many words. Sometimes, even a smile can be interpreted as pursuit.......like if you seem too excited to see her. Some of these actions may not be your definition of pursuit, or even an example given in a dictionary, ....... however, it would considered pursuing behavior to the WW. This is based on my own personal experience, what I have read and heard from other WW's, the information I've researched about wayward (or hard hearted) wives, and the countless stories I have read for the past eleven years.
WOW! Sometimes I read something here so on-point that I copy it to a notes file to paste to people in the future when I think the words are better than anything I could come up with. This is one of those times!
RR please don't put the walkaway and the wayward together. Cheaters cheat because they are entitled jerks, they have scrambled eggs for brains. Walkaways are usually more depressed and are thoughtful.
Very, very true and even as long as I've been here I'm guilty of using the terms interchangeably sometimes.
A couple months ago my W went ahead withdrew over 15k from our savings account( about half).
Was this with or without your permission? Did she indicate she was leaving the other half for you and just withdrawing "her" half? If so then tell her you are transferring the rest to your personal account and that you want to go ahead and close the joint account. But if she did it in secret and you think that telling her this may result in her quickly withdrawing the rest, then talk to a L and determine the best legal course of action.
As far as calling or texting, text so that you have a paper trail.
Sandi2 , Vanilla , Another Stander, RR17, Steve85,Davide -WOW talk about having the A TEAM on your side. Thanks for all the encouragement and valuable input.
Update- NC with W had a good day with S last nite we grabbed a pizza and watched a movie that he wanted. Just nice to hang out with him and the dog. At certain times felt a little off because W was not there. Friday nite was our family movie nite where we would lay down a picnic blanket and eat in front of the tv.
Today I spend time with my family because it is my nieces birthday.
One question I do have now is that although my W was very cold in regards to intimacy. I always felt rejected and unloved. It seemed as if she was not into it but what she constantly did was read Nora Roberts romance novels. After picking up a book and reading a couple pages it seems like soft porn. Why could she not transfer her desires to me?
Help me to understand- Thanks
LW
Sometimes imagination is more powerful than intimacy. It's kinda scarey to some.
On the same tack why do cheaters chase others? Why do some use porn?
I think much of it is fear of true intimacy. In a long term R then connection is a true part of making love.
I know for me that intimacy and sex gets better the more I aM involved with my partner. As confidence and understanding grows in the R.
Books, images and chasing OP avoids intimacy.
V
Vanilla that rings so true- I'm not bragging but when we made love my first and only priority was that my W was well loved and taken care of. Man do I miss that !!
When oi would reach out to her- she would often make excuses...
Thanks for helping me to understand.
Well honey,
You deserve an R that's reciprocal on this aspect. My aged ma and aged pa had an intimate R until mum in her late 80s had dementia and aged pa felt she couldn't consent properly.
That's sex into really late in life. Why? Because it's part of intimacy and love. It's connection. It's flourishing in life and they did.
So now you have a deal breaker for you in an R.
V
One question I do have now is that although my W was very cold in regards to intimacy. I always felt rejected and unloved. It seemed as if she was not into it but what she constantly did was read Nora Roberts romance novels. After picking up a book and reading a couple pages it seems like soft porn.
I use to read those type of books all the time. It was a substitute for the lack of intimacy in my MR. What happens is, the woman's imagination places her in the story. She becomes the female character in the novel, and she feels whatever the author describes the fictional character as having. When she finishes reading the book, then she continues to fantasize about the male character. Same thing as watching a movie and fantasizing about the actor. Only, I believe it more extensive than just a passing sexual fantasy. It is developing a story line between the fictional character that continues on a daily basis, or until another one takes its place. It's all imaginary, and nobody is the wiser, but it begins affecting the woman's feelings for her H. This is what is called imaginary affairs.
When a W does not get her emotional needs met, she is left vulnerable. She feels an emotional void. Anyway, she starts reading love stories, b/c she craves romance. Book after book, she reads about these fictional male characters. She may have started with fairly innocent type of romantic stories, but her need for more sexually explicit scenes intensify.......b/c it is filling a void in her. She may not realize it, but she's only making things worse.
I doubt many H's would give it a second thought.....or may even laugh it off, if they were told their W was having an IA. However, the seriousness is in how it affects her emotionally and carries over into her reality. It's how it works in losing her attraction and respect for her H.
Whether or not she
intentionally compares her H to the book's male character, her mind is pointing out how the H falls short. That, alone, can cause loss of admiration and respect for him. She craves for this romance she is reading about in these books. Not many H's can compare to the male character in a novel. I wonder if it would be comparable to how some men expect their W's to sexually act the way they see actresses perform in sex scenes. It's just not the same in reality.
When the woman becomes addictted to these romantic novels, it also sets up a format in her soul for having an EA/PA in the future. In other words, her craving becomes greater, which leaves her more vulnerable.
I don't think I have heard of men reading romance novels and having an IA. Maybe it's just not as common as with women, IDK. Again, I believe it has a lot to do with how we are wired. I have waited in doctors' offices many times, and I have never seen a man reading a paperback romance novel.....but there is usually a woman engrossed in one.
Why could she not transfer her desires to me?
Some H's may be okay with his W
using him for sex, while desiring another guy in her mind. But I think you are asking why she couldn't transfer her "feelings" to you. I am not qualified to give you a satisfactory answer. I'll just tell you that women are not wired the same as men. We don't think categorically like men. We can't separate our feelings, like men, or transfer our desires from one man to another. We desire one man at a time.
I'm not saying she couldn't get turned on by watching porn and then want to have sex with her H. That is more like physical gratification. A woman's "desire" goes deeper and is more complexed. A woman has a main object (man) of her emotional desire. She might have
sex with her H, while she fantasizes about her main object of emotional desire (OM).....but that doesn't mean she has
transferred her feelings of desire....IMHO. She is simply using her H's body as a substitute for the one she really wants.
Some may disagree, but I believe a woman is wired to love/desire one man at a time. If her desire is not her H, it will begin to show in the marital bed. She may submit to having sex with him, but she avoids open mouth and/or tongue kisses. He eventually notices she just doesn't seem as interested......maybe wants to hurry and get it over. Then, she begins avoiding sex altogether. To discourage her H from initiating sex, she will often give off cold signals, give excuses, etc. It eventually leads to a SSM.
Tank you Sandi -Your words make perfect sense to me .I initially thought noting of it. Guess it was a ticking time bomb because she would spend 80% of her free time reading this.
My next question is - is there any coming back from this? Or will I ever measure up to her expectations? How does one rebound from this situation?
On a positive note - I've been getting alot more comments at the gym about my looks and personality.. Hopefully it is a sign of my confidence coming back.
bump- thanks for the input
Thank you Sandi -Your words make perfect sense to me .I initially thought nothing of it. Guess it was a ticking time bomb because she would spend 80% of her free time reading this.
My next question is - is there any coming back from this? Or will I ever measure up to her expectations? How does one rebound from this situation?
On a positive note - I've been getting alot more comments at the gym about my looks and personality.. Hopefully it is a sign of my confidence coming back.
One question I do have now is that although my W was very cold in regards to intimacy. I always felt rejected and unloved. It seemed as if she was not into it but what she constantly did was read Nora Roberts romance novels. After picking up a book and reading a couple pages it seems like soft porn. Why could she not transfer her desires to me?
I agree with all that sandi2 has said. I would add that this may well be a valuable symptom of the MR problems. W was getting something from those books that she didn't get from you. Think about this.
If you are to recon this will be a major area of focus. IMO, it is good news. So many of us have no idea where to start.
Wolf, several posts have mentioned alpha male within a relationship. If I were you, this would be a major focus of my GAL. Read all I could. Filter out the "pick-up" stuff. But I have read how most of us guys are "a way", whatever that way may be, when our spouse became interested. And we morph into something we think our spouses want, which far from what they fell in love with in the first place. We do it to keep the peace or to be the partner than we think they want.
We couldn't be farther from the truth.
Think about how you were when you two met. How have you changed?
My next question is - is there any coming back from this? Or will I ever measure up to her expectations? How does one rebound from this situation?
I just don't know. If it wasn't for her interest in the new age stuff, I would venture to say there was a chance of coming back. It sounds as if she is really taken with it. In time, she may be able to change her opinion, but some never do, b/c it opens the doors to other dark avenues.
Let's say she told you she wanted to come home, but she would not give up the new age practices. As a Christian, and the man over your home, you would need to make a decision whether or not you would allow her to bring the practices and influences into your home. Once she is back in the home, it will be much harder to prevent her from implementing the practices under your roof. Know what I mean? We are not talking about a different denomination of Christian churches here, or even a different religion believing in God. We are talking about practices that the scripture strictly forbids. Remember when the Hebrew men married foreign women who worshipped idol gods, and the H's allowed the W's to bring their idols into the home.
As for her coming back from the stronghold the novels have in her life, it is definitely possible. Anything is possible. ( I am such a realist that I often sound negative when I am trying to point out things). I was able to recognize the source that was feeding my fantasies and negately comparing my H to these fictional characters. I knew, but sadly, I did not act upon it until much later. After I ended my A, I destroyed all the books I had collected and even those I had not yet read. I have not looked at another romantic novel in eleven years. That might sound ridiculous to some people, but anything can be a source of weakness.
Whenever a W begins to negatively compare her H to any other man, the MR is in trouble. The H usually doesn't know, b/c this is all kept in the W's heart. It adds to her list of resentments and growing feelings of disrespect for him as a man. She feels an emotional void from her H, and reading novels seems to feed her something, at least. She may start with rather innocent type of stories, but eventually, her taste for more sexually explicit books become the norm. It's b/c she no longer finds excitement and romance in her MR, and she gets a certain amount of excitement by throwing herself into these novels. However, it goes into a downward spiral, b/c the more she loses herself in this fantasy world, the more problems it creates.
Back to your question, yes, it is
possible to come back from this situation. Most anything is possible. However, I think it will mostly hinge on what your WW does. I would hate to see you waiting and holding your breath, b/c I think it will take her a long time, if she gets her eyes opened. She has ventured off into dark waters. You can be the lighthouse that shines the beam of light. You can't force her to follow the light. Just shine, and let her swim to shore.
from RR
Wolf, several posts have mentioned alpha male within a relationship. If I were you, this would be a major focus of my GAL. Read all I could. Filter out the "pick-up" stuff. But I have read how most of us guys are "a way", whatever that way may be, when our spouse became interested. And we morph into something we think our spouses want, which far from what they fell in love with in the first place. We do it to keep the peace or to be the partner than we think they want.
We couldn't be farther from the truth.
Think about how you were when you two met. How have you changed?
RR you are totally right when she met me I was so confident so full of self respect and then as you say I morphed into something else. I will definitely do the research on Alpha male. funny thing - I train dogs and I should know alpha male characteristics. Nevertheless - I have home work.
From Sandi2
Let's say she told you she wanted to come home, but she would not give up the new age practices. As a Christian, and the man over your home, you would need to make a decision whether or not you would allow her to bring the practices and influences into your home. Once she is back in the home, it will be much harder to prevent her from implementing the practices under your roof. Know what I mean?
If she wanted to come home part of my formula to return would be to do a Christian faith based MC and to place God front and center where He belongs. In other words- If you are asking me to choose between my W and God- there is no choice. So this would be a deal breaker.
From Sandi2
Back to your question, yes, it is possible to come back from this situation. Most anything is possible. However, I think it will mostly hinge on what your WW does. I would hate to see you waiting and holding your breath, b/c I think it will take her a long time, if she gets her eyes opened. She has ventured off into dark waters. You can be the lighthouse that shines the beam of light. You can't force her to follow the light. Just shine, and let her swim to shore.
For me the plan will be on self improvement- no matter what. my priest said to me that this is still your W. You married for good and for bad, in sickness and in health -till death do you part. He said you made this covenant before God , your family and friends. He then mentioned when you got married you became one flesh. Now he says- lets analyze this.. if you had a bad hand and it was starting to get infected . would you just cut off your hand? I said, -of course not! He stated your wife is that infected hand you must do your best to treat it and deal with it. always dealing with respect and dignity. No matter if the W is sick physically - mentally or spiritually . she is still your W . This will be taken care of in God's time not your time.
So it is now my faith in God and to give Him full control and to just focus on being the best me. For all that are here I hope the same for you. Blessings!! and stay well!!
I was at my niece's birthday party at my brothers this past weekend. I have a big family -2 of my brothers and their partners were there with their kids and my sister who has never married.
On a side note my brothers are not as religious as I am and do not attend mass regularly. My one brother who's home we are at is divorced. He met his current partner at work ( she's divorced) and I suspect he might have been with her before his D was finalized.
Anyways I was with the adults outside on the back porch. The kids were in the basement playing not able to hear us. So the conversation goes to my son and how he is coping. I let them know that he is struggling but I am doing my best to be his foundation because he is so angry at W. The 2 ladies then start to get a little hostile almost accusing me of making my son hate his mom.
I got on the defensive and stated that my S is very smart and fully aware of what happened. Both SIL then make the assumption that since my W walked there must have been a problem with me. One SIL even said my W would talk to her about being unhappy for some time. Funny thing is -why would W not talk to me. I responded by stating there was no beating no cheating no abuse. We had some R problems that with the proper help and attitude would be repairable but W just quit. My beliefs do not include divorce. we attended mass every Sunday.
My SIL whos divorced -pipes up well when I was married - There was none of that ( beating , cheating or abuse)but my exH worked 16 hour days and I left with just my paycheck. My 2 brothers sat back and I felt attacked as these people were making a statement that it's ok to D under any circumstance. I left the conversation and needed the time to clear my head. Looks like I don't even have the support of my family. So much for that. that was a rough nite. It seems my W might have been talking to these SIL at get at family functions and may still be in contact. (If you been reading my stitch- these are a different SIL then the one my W sees regularly). Guess I won't be hanging out there much.
I got on the defensive and stated that my S is very smart and fully aware of what happened. Both SIL then make the assumption that since my W walked there must have been a problem with me. One SIL even said my W would talk to her about being unhappy for some time. Funny thing is -why would W not talk to me. I responded by stating there was no beating no cheating no abuse. We had some R problems that with the proper help and attitude would be repairable but W just quit. My beliefs do not include divorce. we attended mass every Sunday.
Not sure if this will fall on deaf ears, but here goes. WLF, please understand, I, we are here as your advocate in this sitch.
You are not to discuss your sitch with family. An alpha male would not tolerate these SILs disrespect. BTW, something IS wrong with you. Something is wrong with W too. These are not topics for discussion at the nieces BDay party. Period
If you have a trusted friend than take it to them. DO NOT DISCUSS WITH THE FAMILY. Not if you have any desire to possibly recon.
Do you want to be right or try to give this MR a chance? Because people are going to choose sides regardless of what you tell them. They are.
Praying for you.
I left the conversation and needed the time to clear my head. Looks like I don't even have the support of my family. So much for that. that was a rough nite. It seems my W might have been talking to these SIL at get at family functions and may still be in contact. (If you been reading my stitch- these are a different SIL then the one my W sees regularly). Guess I won't be hanging out there much.
I think it is unwise to discuss your sitch in the presence of any of your
in-laws.......especially the women. Even if you spoke only to your brothers, they are likely to say something about it to their W's, especially if the W is digging for information. You cannot trust your SIL's not to tell your WW, or to work on her behalf.
Yep
I agree with both posters.
Zip it, state a boundary, it's your concern and not open for discussion.
V
As always my big mouth gets me in trouble. Point taken- lesson learned. Back to staying positive and being the best me.
FYI - we as a family. My W, my S and me have a therapy session for my S on Friday nite. He is struggling and want answers from his mom. He missed school again today saying that he feels broken and that he's depressed. By his demeanor I did not want to leave him alone and I had an interview at noon. So I sent her a simple text- she did not even respond. I called to have my interview rescheduled. Please pray for my family especially my poor S. Thank you!
Your S is in my daily votive, rainbow hugs.
V
Vanilla thank you so much!!
update- people at the gym have mentioned that I am more upbeat then i was a couple months ago. It is actually nice to get some womens attention again. I guess my GAL game is working!!!
As always my big mouth gets me in trouble. Point taken- lesson learned. Back to staying positive and being the best me.
FYI - we as a family. My W, my S and me have a therapy session for my S on Friday nite. He is struggling and want answers from his mom. He missed school again today saying that he feels broken and that he's depressed. By his demeanor I did not want to leave him alone and I had an interview at noon. So I sent her a simple text- she did not even respond. I called to have my interview rescheduled. Please pray for my family especially my poor S. Thank you!
Prayers said for your family, and I will continue to pray for you guys.
Ironically, my D never knew of our MR problems, but she struggled with accepting my 180s. Apparently she had become used to me being isolated most of the time. She is warming up a bit now to them, but she still questions things occasionally.