Divorcebusting.com
starting a new thread I think... I just took the last post from #9 and am re-posting it here



So X married OW as of the past 2 days. In Hawaii and with one of our former friends, there.

I had dinner last night with x's bff and his wife, and we shared a lot of laughs and good talks. Knew them our whole marriage and whole dating life. Both married the same year. Both had 3 kids, were in school and the military together...

I got the elephant in the room as I had learned of the marriage an hour before the dinner!
(Geez...)

So I told them "hey, I was wronged and betrayed. Our kids were treated terribly. That is just true.
But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life reviewing my list of grievances. I am to blame for the rest of my life."

Most of the time, I believe ^^^^this. But I have my moments of fury about finances and loss. So we talked about old times and my future plans as they have retired (like X and I COULD HAVE idiot...) and they want to visit me wherever I go. AND I believe them.

Yes it still hurts but not as much as I thought it would.

I suppose there will be times when it gut punches me?? Maybe I'm just numb.

But I actually think x is nutty.

Our kids were not invited and he posted his new profile on FB and THAT is how they learned...lovely. That's not normal, folks.

I mean it when I say, I think x has something wrong with him.

Like he has a real personality disorder. And I don't say this merely b/c he remarried - but because of the total discard of our family and marital history. The obnoxious behavior in the divorce - he STILL tells his bff that he was "volunteering"! His name was on the building!

I wish I had read about Personality Disorders a LONG time ago.

I would have cut him loose so much sooner.


Maybe his new wife can fix him. Maybe NOW he can finally be happy.

His dad is on his 4th marriage and considers himself a good father...and I imagine a good h. There are disturbing similarities and when x's bff pointed that out, x totally missed the reference.

But the way x's family - once MY family, have all treated our kids, the ONLY grandchildren, is abysmal. I cannot change that.

So, back to me.

It's over. It's done. And in a very real way, even though there is pain, I feel freer.

Like there is literally nothing attached to my marriage or x anymore, to confuse or hold me back. I have no choice but to make the best of the time I have left.

The m ended and it's not recoverable and there is no "grand lesson" on x's end, coming.

It is over.

Coincidentally and thankfully, I'm flying out to CA to see my older 2 kids for Mother's Day and am excited. Boy, what perfect timing.

They may be more upset than I am. Seriously, I think b/c I can replace a husband - NOT that I want to, but I can remarry.

They are stuck with this man as their only dad. How appallingly painful for them. And they ARE hurt, no matter what x tells himself or whom he blames (me, probably)


X has done a lot of destruction he will never, ever face. And that is how it is.

Can't let him have any more of our energy. It's cut losses time.

As my late French mother would say, sadly "C'est Fini".


(She'd also dramatically swat the air in reference to OW, and say "She can HAVE HIM!")



Working on channeling my mom more. cool
As Own and V said, there is value in x being such an outrage thru this experience and ordeal

it IS LESS confusing, if not "easier" to get thru to the other side

but the kids...oh my, they are so freaked.

I'm flying out to see them for Mother's day and am touched by what they have planned.

I love them very much. I INVESTED in them, and at the moment, that feels like it's ;paying off a bit.

Yay.
How long are you going to be out here? I'm playing a gig the next weekend in Carlsbad.
Wow. I can't imagine finding out my father remarried via facebook. Nothin' but class, your x. Nothin' but class.

I hope you have a wonderful time visiting your kids.
Adding this from the last thread as I just restored it.


Originally Posted By: Maybell
But I cannot see how x replaces our kids, though. OW has a d17, is that enough


I m sorry to say it, but no. He doesn t value your children the way you do. How many of the things he did could he have done if he loved them the way you do Could he have avoided your hospital room if he cared about his children No, because he knows they love you. Could he have left for Alaska if he cared about them No, because keeping them stable in their schools and friendships would have been important to him. Could he have had affairs No, because part of how a father takes care of his children (especially his daughters) is by showing them how a woman (their mother) should be treated.

The OW s d17 is an accessory just as your kids are. If she starts showing up in the pics it will be to show the world that OTHER people appreciate him, but that you re a bitter bunny who poisoned his kids against him but he can t be that bad if the OW s D is smiling in pictures with him. Impression management.

I m sorry to be blunt but what the OW is doing to her daughter is just as bad as what your ex has done (is doing) to your kids. I m so proud of your D20, on your behalf.


Super excited for you to be moving forward on the teaching abroad gig I envy you having new learning to take on.

I would not have agreed to the tax thing. Just my two cents. But I hope it resolves successfully.

It makes sense that you would want to be married or committed again. It makes sense married is your default state at this point. I m reading a book about romantic attachment styles and the first point it makes is that ALL HUMANS need a partnership. It s in our genes. But some of us have dysfunctional attachment styles that cause our relationships to short circuit, even when we sincerely love someone. I believe your ex loved you as best as his dysfunctional attachment style would permit, and that my ex did too. I actually think they still do and that s the reason for the crazy behavior. But that doesnt mean it s healthy for us to be attached to people who can t function in a relationship.

I think I m mostly at peace with my divorce (but not 100 percent). I still get mad at Mr. Fantastic for making such destructive choices. I m disgusted with his lazy parenting (if you can even really call it that). He has gone so far downhill since our divorce, in so many stupid ways, that I m kind of grateful to be away from his crazy. But I also feel really sad for the waste of it all, including the waste of so many of his good qualities. The best I can hope is to kind of make up for it with how I manage my life.

I m proud of you for trying to reframe your opportunity to have your grand adventure. I can t wait to hear more about it as you report from overseas (right )

HUGS, 25.


MAYBELL

If you happen to read here I have restored your post - PLEASE stop using contractions with the associated symbol it is what is causing your posts to blank out - Thanks - CADET
25years,

I will write more ASAP but I'm just wondering is the new wife much younger than you? I saw your post about him being public with her whereas he previously wasn't with you. Perhaps if she's younger he's trying to show off to everyone like "hey look at me with my younger woman!" It seems like that'd fit with his personality.

It's so sad that you spent so many years of your life with someone like that, but I also saw your post about planning to go overseas. That sounds great! If you'd like to teach English then Qatar or Dubai would offer high standards of living. Jordan would be a nice place to help refugees while staying safe and having access to good quality medical care. In the past when I've had problems and gone overseas I found the distance helped a lot. I likely would have asked my husband to agree to me taking our daughter to go overseas now for a few years if I didn't have health problems that required me to stay for the time being.

It sounds like you have exciting times ahead!
Thank you Cadet. I will avoid contractions. And I guess everything that is not a period. I notice the question marks had to go as well.

Happy Mothers Day 25.
"His dad is on his 4th marriage and considers himself a good father...and I imagine a good h. There are disturbing similarities and when x's bff pointed that out, x totally missed the reference."

It always amazes me the number of people that miss their own shortcomings. I have to believe that if I was 3 times divorced I might look at myself in the mirror and go "am I the problem?" Yet so many of these people are oblivious. 1 D, okay maybe you were a decent spouse and the other spouse flaked out. 2 Ds? Okay maybe I got unlucky twice. 3 Ds? Okay I have to start to think I am doing it wrong.

So much easier to blame everyone else I guess.
I am hoping that one day, FB will go down to where it should belong.
It has become a platform of destroying families and hurting children.
When my husband's OW blatantly posted their picture on FB, I was appalled at the guts, shameless.
Even though my children are teenagers, I did not let them have any FB account so they are not aware of that picture.
I successfully pressured the OW to remove the picture, not sure though if OW deactivated or just made the account private.

How I wished I can meet you when you are in California.
The best liberating thing to do is when you are surrounded by friends who are in the same boat as you are.

Please do so.
It will shorten your grief and move on and give you the tools to grow through divorce and not be bitter about it.
When you can talk about your X without any bitterness, then that is the time that you are truly free.

"The Lord is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit" (Psalm 34:18)
Thanks all, I'm back east now.

The Mother's Day trip was very lovingly planned by S31 and d28 and S's partner, (whom I think he will marry - and with my total support!) So I'll refer to her as Sgf ?? Anyhow, she helped compensate for me missing d20 (who is back east in college, taking finals.)

Sort of Felt like I had all my chicks with me and they took me to a Mother's Day "Mom's Only Comics" combined (hilariously) with a whiskey tasting.


What could be better than funny mothers and drinking???
No, I did not go up on stage - I was a happy audience member.

Sgf manages comedians (talk about a great job!) and we got great seats and all the comics came up to suck up to us and I just had a grand time.


The not so hot part was that my kids showed me a letter H sent "the children" around his wedding time.

After 19 months of not reaching out meaningfully (as far as I know), their dad sent them a group email.

You would THINK he'd (after blaming me for the divorce or whatever) eventually apologize for his failings as a dad - and what he missed out on, being gone SO MUCH in their childhoods. He could have blamed it on his hard work but at least own some infliction of pain.

I know, I know, too much to hope for, right?

INSTEAD he sent out the weirdest mean letter to THEM...and owned nothing.

First he blames me for the divorce (while explaining why he divorced me , which is just factually untrue as I filed and we ML that morning and only after I saw that I was blocked from our accounts, did I file)

Then Says HE got screwed in the divorce and that HIS lawyer agrees (sounds like an invitation to sue the L for malpractice) so NOW x must work very hard...as HIS life savings were nearly wiped out...(um, okay that made me laugh)

AND HE was NEVER UNFAITHFUL to me...(he just keeps saying it over & over like he believes it, and I have ugly proof of it - and OW/Wife is not his first...)

and THEN he stresses how much he loves his new wife and HER Daughter...(super easy for me to hear, and WHY SAY IT TO THEM??)

It's hurtful to the kids, what an idiot- I believe he is officially missing the gene for empathy - at least for his first family.

He says kids "should never have been dragged into the divorce" ****as if HIS choices played no role in that.

HE left me impaired, stumbling and forgetful after a 6 day neuro stay in the hospital. S31 drove up 4 hours the next morning when he realized I was alone in the home, and that my x, the MD did that...

ANYWAY after the gaslighting blame shifting, which I admit I expected...the letter to the kids


He lists HIS requirements of OUR children - to have a relationship with HIM.


I kid you not - that's what the kids were most amazed by, I think. Like, not the reverse, but HIS requirements of them...OMG...

1) They must Not bring up the past

(no wonder the kids were not invited to the wedding. The truth hurts his narrative)


2) They MUST treat him with respect - as he deserves it...with his hard work and all the events he DID attend - often driving home for weekends "even speeding at times"

(why'd you decide unilaterally to live away during the week at all, moron??? OMG)

and he was "there for all the big events AND even the mundane"....

(yes, that "even for the mundane" is a great line that hit my kids in the face like a slap. So did the bold lie that he missed nothing. What type of amnesia is this??)

okay

3) They MUST treat his new wife AND HER daughter with "double that respect - or he is done"


and my personal favorite line "OW/Wife and HER D15, have been through a lot."


So if the kids ever bring up the past or are disrespectful (not sure what defines that) to him OR in any way to his new family, he is "done."

Signs it,

"I'll love you forever, Dad."

Wow...ouch for the kids (and me, to be honest. )

If he were interested in what OUR children have been through the past 18 months, (anyone recall how d20 got assaulted, jailed, eventually freed with charges dismissed and at great legal expense??? Anyone? That was superfun and not traumatic at all - x does not know...
OH
and how he cut off her tuition and only b/c of S31 did her school give her a great aid package, and that she had been suicidal that summer for real??

I suspect the truth would overwhelm him

or he'd just avoid it, again, and again, forever...


Here is what I suspect going forward.

There will never be an apology of any sort to me. I will not spend a minute waiting for one.
The only "karma" for me is in living well. If OW/Wife knew the truth and married him anyway, then his karma is their choosing each other. If she did not, then his new m is based on a dishonest narrative. That poor OW kid...


There will never be an apology to our children , or if there is, like on his deathbed, it'll be a flippant minimizing one.

He will go down with the ship of his rightness and there is nothing I can do about that, but remind myself to be the sane parent.

The lighthouse.

NOT a lighthouse FOR X,

but for our children.

I was wrong to pretend that what h showed them was love. I hoped it was, convincing myself of it for the longest time.

Maybell, in his weird disordered way I think he did love them. But what does it say about love if it means, as it does to my d28, abandonment? She is suffering a lot b/c she seems to pursue people who are not really available to her. And I can see why...

NOW,

I think that letter was 1) an opportunity for him to show his NEW family how loyal he is, (and he's not loyal when it is hard, which is how loyalty is tested).

It's a letter he would never have showed the people in HIS circles for ME or our children,

who said words unflattering to me or about gays like our d20. He never defended us if it might cost HIM.

His childhood Vietnam vet friend/hero - who came on to me heavily and with great disrespect to x, which I did not quite understand - x would never defend me so I had to avoid that "Friend/hero" of x's. And I felt sort of guilty for that nuts behavior as if I had caused it, or hurt x by mentioning it at all.

so NOW he's Mr Loyal....and

I fear he is looking for an excuse to ditch the kids permanently. God, I hope I'm wrong.

That's my fear.

AND OR

That the only way they are to relate to him is the way he relates to HIS father, whom he deeply resented for the poor treatment of his mom, but to whom x has never said a word.

either b/c of his own daddy issues AND OR b/c his father is now quite wealthy.

My kids are overtly hurt by the letter. They expressed their pain to me and it was hard to see.

S31 is, at this point, going no contact. Wants "that poison out of him" and feels the negative self esteem issues he struggles with, are from x. I can't argue much with that, just support the good healthy things about my son, and he's a wonderful talented smart handsome hilarious creative man, who loves his gf and sisters and mama,(he was a favorite of my late mother and she was quite clear about it!)

What else is there to say? (I'm totally objective too).

D28 is a wounded artistic soul, whom I just want to hug all the time. God I love that young woman with such a sensitive soul and I feel a sadness and at times, rage at x for inflicting so much pain on our children,

and owning none of it. And then inflicting more b/c he is AGAIN choosing a place, job or person over our children. How many ways can he reject them?

D20 I will see next weekend and hope for the best. I'm driving 8 hours (on Memorial Day that might be 10 hours) and bringing my (her) dog up with me per D20s PLEAS to bring dog.

I need to explain, our dog is NOT a "strong traveler", and will need meds and lots of stops. I almost want to bring M to help out, but that's not really a great plan b/c I need mom d20 time.


When one parent hurts a child, what does the other parent do?

I let x hurt them before and I enabled it, for which I apologize repeatedly. I don't want to warp the meaning of commitment and loyalty and love,

but by enabling x to behave as he did, I share a part of this.
Ah, the cry of the narcissist.

Sounds a lot like my ex.

So long as we all made him look good and went along with his plans things were hunky dory. But since all of our kids have issues as adults (some caused or worsened by his infidelity and eventual departure from the marriage, some worsened by his behaviors after the divorce towards our kids) he does the bare minimum for them and one hasn't spoken to him for almost three years now.

He's declining to help pay for the one final year of schooling (MSW) for our middle child - a straight A student who has overcome many obstacles - and said child is actually kind of relieved to take out loans for that half, because it means he no longer has to hold his tongue around his father and can say what he feels.

I'm sure he thinks I've poisoned the kids against him but nothing is further than the truth - I've always tried to paint his behavior in the best possible light, and failing that, put it down to his concussions and possible CTE. And he cries poor to the kids when they are well aware he makes about $350k a year (plus his new wife works).

It hurts to see them hurt our kids, and hurts to think we made such a poor choice for their father. Still you, like me, got some good years out of your marriage. It wasn't all bad and the best thing you can model for your kids is moving on in a healthy way. My kids all see me as a rock and a wonder and they delight in the fact that I've become the touring musician in the family. The example you set for them is the most powerful thing you can do.
thank you

(((( ))))
yes it kills to know we made such odd poor choices. Oh how blind I was.

KML, I tell myself "oh but you did have those extra years with the kids, (the daughters at least) and they remained in one home in the same area, so that is something".

And it is. But I cannot help but wonder what it would have meant to THEM, let alone me,

to have left earlier and stayed in the area, albeit NOT in a mansion (which x h chose, I swear)

but in a condo or small home of some kind still safe, and still with the same friends and MAYBE me in a new healthy r, and Or me in a career that I could use now.

Instead, they have many more memories of a "walking on egg shells" environment whenever x was around AND his weird mood swings, and their resentment towards me for letting that happen

and RAGE and pain towards him. His last letter - honestly, Elle, wtf?

Was he trying to fire them? I fear that is the case,

AND OR

did his new family need evidence that he "had tried" with his kids and that explains why they were not invited to the joyous wedding...

AND look how loyal to THEM, he is...insisting they be treated with respect or else he is "done"...

Or did he think that our kids would slap their foreheads and say "OMG dad is right! All this time our mom has brainwashed us against him - but he was a GREAT dad!!"

All those "mundane" events he attended... (great wording X. Who helped him write that tripe?? I hope it was all him, or he's married someone of his own caliber)

Elle, Jesus I could barely believe he wrote AND sent that letter. He also says he is in therapy and I have to wonder 1) IF its true at all, versus radung an article or letting OW's T tell him how great he was/is

or what type of T...(please, X, do as I did, and let our kids talk to your T!!

It ain't easy but it's way more productive and real...)

So, how can I support them best as their mom, while maintaining my own inner rage at his lying and the knee jerk reaction I have to explain why is lies are lies?

I mean, s31 said "Mom, you don't need to rebut this. We know it's false and more gaslighting " -( a term you wish you child never knew - )

but the words about his NEW family and what THEY have been through (I assume from their past b/c if it is OUR divorce, he has no one to blame but himself and anything else is pure delusion)

ignoring his own kids...wow, okay I'm just venting now.

It's one thing to be a narcissist, which one author says we all need a little bit of, (he argues that a bit of ego and belief in some specialness about ourselves in adolescence can help and he's not totally off base)

but it's another thing to believe your own lies and have the ability to harm others with your pursuit of the ever fleeting contentment of YOURS....


that's one test for all of us. "Is MY happiness the center of my world and what I expect to be the center of OTHER's worlds?"

because in my ex h's case, HIS happiness was the goal for him, no matter the cost AND in his mind, I think, it SHOULD be everyone's goal.

He said to our d20 "don't you care about MY happiness?" as if there were no costs to others, of importance (which sukks to realize b/c the discard of me and our 35 marriage is glaring and painful, but reminds me to make sure I choose more deeply next time IF and When I choose...

BUT to which d20 said, "No, I know what you want me to say. But I care less about YOUR happiness and way more about your honesty, and living an authentic life". So tell me when you see a T...."

Btw, x claims he is now seeing a T. I seriously doubt he is at all, or if he is, it's not about what he has done, it's about his NEW family and how to avoid doing his crappy behavior
to more women in his life..or just leaving out gaping holes in the narrative...

I know it's petty but one lie he wrote in his letter to OUR children (who know the truth!) was that he divorced me.

Now, like I said, no biggie, he did leave for Alaska and I only filed when I realized he had blocked me from the bank accounts. And his last comments were about how we'd "reboot the marriage" and that I'd "come running up to Alaska within a year" which he also told d20.

So maybe he expected or feared his new wife would read it...or he has told her that HE divorced me...whatever, but what a weird lie to tell OUR kids...I mean, they do not have amnesia and the divorce papers, IF you want to read crap like that, do tell the truth.

Just so weird...like it's a lie but it is provably false and yet he keeps repeating it, like the 'never been unfaithful" and the "I was volunteering" at work...

guess it's another "why??" question never to be answered satisfactorily so I best not keep asking it.

The kids are troubled by it (the letter was a nutty kick in the face) and that set me back.

But I also TRY to show them what healing and moving on looks like. I sent d28 a picture -

a beautiful picture of an autumn tree losing its leaves. And the caption is -

"The trees are about to show us how lovely it is, to let things go
."


anyhow thanks for listening.
Yeah they have to rewrite history because otherwise there would be NO WAY to justify or live with their behavior.

And lord knows narcissists are all about finding ways to feel good about themselves.
(My narcissist was an insecure narcissist - deep in his heart he didn't feel he was enough, so his efforts were all about getting the approval from the outside world. So the public show was really important - his best male friend once called him a "God among men" lol - but private charity out of the public eye was not his forte. )
I am so happy to see that you are having this discussion. Yes, too many people in everyday life throw around the word narcissist for every self-centered behavior. Others refuse to discuss labels of any kind. But, there are people who very clearly meet the disorder and it is important to recognize that because you have to change the way you do things when you deal with these people.

Keep reading the articles on the narcissist's new woman and you will not need to worry that he is getting help for his happy life with her. Narcs enjoy therapy, until it gets real. Its like play-acting. IF he is going, it is because she is making him. There is nothing wrong with a narc so why would he ever go unless he had to.

Even though it is hard to admit it, yes, your kids probably would have been better off if you had lived the smaller, more stable, less eggshell crunchy life. But you can't rewrite the past and if you keep second-guessing what you did with the best of intentions for the people you love the most in this world, you will remain trapped in that place with him.

The most important part of this is that you are OUT and DONE and he has shown your children exactly who he is and what he is all about and it ain't them. You have a life to live. A glorious one. Full of love, laughter, and family. Three things your X will never truly have in his own life.
Wow, 25, just wow. I am finding myself pitying (not sympathizing. PITY) your XH. Sigh. He is only focused on what is in front of him (new W and D) and is oblivious to the affects on his own children. He is potentially destroying his Rs with his kids. How terribly sad for him, because it IS HIS LOSS. Yes, it will be hard on them, but they have strong characters as you describe and they have authentic Rs with you, their mom.

I too wonder about these personality disorders and do we over-diagnose them to describe someone. I am not sure. I do agree with Own. I also was thinking that if a person is a narcissist, or if they are not, they will still have to face the same consequences of their choices. Even if their thought process is off compared to most, they still have to put mental energy into justifying what they are doing. Those thought processes, defensiveness and mental warfare, harms our own psyche. This reflects in who we show the world we are. AND, they still have to face the same consequences and feel the same losses. He may feel very justified in his position, but that does not come without expenses and negative consequences, is what I am suggesting.

This made me think about my mom and her two sisters. None of them talk (my mom is 70 and the youngest) and for as long as I can remember there has been drama with one or the other. My mom talks about one that has "boarderline PD" and she says it as tho it's factual. I have no doubt they feel she has a personality disorder too. It's sort of ironic to me how they all point fingers at each other and blame shift and justify their reasons for not having a relationship with each other. The only fact really is that they are all hurting to some extent and they are all missing out on having any Rs with their own sisters. How sad! My mom has trouble seeing that even if she feels like a victim to someone (in many of her Rs) she is still accountable for her part in the R and the way she handles it. And sadly, she does not have many people in her life that are close to her.

It takes a strong character for someone to look at their actions and choices in life and to be accountable. Even if we are wronged or a victim, we can still look at our own part and we can still make some improvements. It also feels good to live with this integrity and it draws more people that are similar to us. ... Your H in time will have shallow Rs and miss out on the most important ones with his kids, and the silver lining is you don't have to have an R with him anymore. You can now find (if you choose) a better and stronger man that has integrity.

Blu
I have no empathy or sympathy for the sparkly turd.

Dump him from all thoughts, flush his awful stink away.

Your kids are old enough now, you can spit out these [censored] sandwiches. Let it go the way it should down the sewer. Don't care who or what he is. How he treats OW or her poor D.

Move to the land of Neh and Meh. As fast as you can.

Expect more dung as his demands aren't met. Smellier and more liquid out of all orifices.

You love, that is never wasted. Love turns a sparkly turd into a gold ingot. Be proud of your love, it's awesome when it can do that. But you can let it go now.

V
Originally Posted By: NicoleR
25years,

I will write more ASAP but I'm just wondering is the new wife much younger than you? I saw your post about him being public with her whereas he previously wasn't with you. Perhaps if she's younger he's trying to show off to everyone like "hey look at me with my younger woman!" It seems like that'd fit with his personality.


Actually new wife is within a few years of my age. A few years younger but definitely in her 50's (or she just looks that age... cool )

She is not more attractive than me, and I say that b/c I was curious of course. From what 100% of the people who have looked say, I'm "significantly" more attractive. I have never once looked at their posts but am told they are over the top & are "active Alaskans" types.

I'm smarter, I'm more educated and I'm a hell of a lot funnier. She does not have a college degree.

New wife Works in some form of cosmetic place where they do facials and fillers and botox which of course x the DOCTOR can administer and I would bet he's been working at her place for the "retirement" charade, in addition to other income hiding issues. Oh well.

I'm told she has had some type of fillers and face work that according to those who saw, did not pan out well. That she "looks weird."

What I gather from this^^ is insecurity in her about looks & or aging - which we all have but do not all keep working on with fillers and surgeries...

I don't take joy in this^^ (well, okay, maybe a little) but actually feel sorry for her. She thinks she's getting a great guy MD and a Doctor's wife lifestyle --- but since he blames me for taking "the vast majority of HIS life savings" (WTF???) his finances are shot and the kids are NOT To ask him for money...

She's getting a bitter man who is always striving and never arriving.
He will never, ever have enough money and so, although he has much more than I do, he also "needs more" b/c he cannot be satisfied with owning a home and traveling and enjoying life.

he Always, ALWAYS blames someone else for his mistakes, even when the mistake is blindingly obviously only HIS...and now he blames his own children for choices he made over my/their objection...like living away from home during the week. To complain about how he'd drive 200 miles home on Fridays "speeding home, often dangerously hoping to make everyone happy" - overlooks that I did NOT want him to live up there AND he promised it was going to be a 6 month gig, not 5 years...

I don't think his pride will allow him to leave her but he cannot sustain happiness for long, so who knows? Maybe she will bolt. He described himself to our kids as a "glass half full" type of guy...ironic, since he was clearly so dissatisfied with all of us. He belittled & undermined me & criticized the kids OFTEN. His encouragement was odd too. And narcissistic in that he'd tell our s31 (when s31 won a state championship in wrestling) that s31 "can now go to the Olympics."


Let the kid enjoy his win and move on. S31 did not want to spend the next 5 years wrestling 8 hours a day and getting his face smashed and not having a social life, at all. S31 was done and then made to feel like he had disappointed his father INSTEAD of being happy about a huge achievement. X also felt our d28 could be a great movie star

INSTEAD of appreciating that she is a truly gifted actress. Money and fame are not her goals.

My stand up comedy was - evidently - supposed to lead to me getting a sitcom??

I mean, x seems to see it as a failure on my end instead of something I do for the joy of performing my own material.

THIS^^^ is very sabotaging to people.

Regardless of how x now treats his "new family",

all I DO KNOW is that he was terrible to me the past few years and if I'd known in 2006 what I Know now, I'd have cut him loose and moved on.

He damaged our children and I enabled that to happen, for which I am very sorry.

New wife has recently gained weight and my guess is that within a year if not sooner, x will comment about it. She has breast implants which used to turn him off, and at least one tattoo, which he detested. The way to ensure her dependency and admiration of him will be a mix of undermining comments disguised as "encouraging" her to lose weight/work out BE HEALTHY, etc

mixed in with some publicly shown gifts or trips to prove how he really loves HER...

Good luck...




It's so sad that you spent so many years of your life with someone like that, but I also saw your post about planning to go overseas. That sounds great! If you'd like to teach English then Qatar or Dubai would offer high standards of living. Jordan would be a nice place to help refugees while staying safe and having access to good quality medical care. In the past when I've had problems and gone overseas I found the distance helped a lot. I likely would have asked my husband to agree to me taking our daughter to go overseas now for a few years if I didn't have health problems that required me to stay for the time being.

It sounds like you have exciting times ahead!


Thanks!

I'm planning on leaving in the fall. I admit that the uncertainty of where I'm heading is starting to bug me more.

I like to research places I'm traveling to (half the fun) and would also feel a lot more settled if I knew. Plus I want to bring my dog.

D20 is having some severe emotional issues and I am heading up to see her (9 hour drive WITH our dog...per D20's strong requests = "great mom" points). It has occurred to me that this may not be a great time for me to go overseas vis a vis her, but I also think there's value in her seeing me follow my dreams and making my own difference.

The email from x to the kids really hurt them. After he gaslighted them re the marriage, (as if they were not there!), he ranted about how much HE had sacrificed FOR THEM "always their best interests" - and that he "bled" for them and "is exhausted."

Who writes that to their kids?

I showed my T the email and she said she was "so sorry" that our kids and I had to read this.

Then she set it down and told me "Now you know. You have hard evidence that he's not a normal person, he's not rational and he's not well. You cannot talk rationally to someone who is irrational. THIS is a ranting piece. He's ranting and blaming THEM and you...

and if they do not buy into his narrative he will refuse to have a relationship with them at all, & your kids must treat his new family with "respect asthey have been through a lot."

(To me this = "say nothing that contradicts my narrative AND be nice to your replacements or you won't get to be on the team at all.")

This insight^^ from my T helped me detach a great deal and to take things much less personally.

Here is what my s31 wrote back to his dad i n response to the group email:



Thank you for sending this. It clarified a lot for me. I accept that you meant everything you said, and while I think you're tragically doubling down on conflict avoidance- mostly within yourself, it's not my responsibility to convince you of anything. My happiness can't hinge on you seeing the light. Having the tough, honest conversations and sincerely working through problems together is the only way to have a healthy relationship, and unfortunately your letter reflects an inability for that to occur. Time has shown, and these ultimatums further solidify, the inappropriate conditions only under which you are willing to be a father, and rather than try to explain that that's not how fatherhood works, I accept you and release you from it. If you ever look in the mirror, don't hate yourself. Just be honest.




If I got a letter like that ^^ from any of my kids, I'd head right over to my T office, and or a local bar.

It would definitely wound me BUT I am also certain that I'd look at myself really hard.

In my better more grace filled moments, I do pity x. I think he's gone off the deep end.

And at some point in his life I believe he will regret this all so very much,

but I also believe I'll never know of that, b/c he will always blame me for his losses. His pride and utter inability to humble himself in any form (which is mandatory for honest growth, imo) will prevent him from admitting it was due to his own flaws.

What x refers to as his "conflict avoidance to keep the peace" which still makes him a victim

was really dishonesty and cowardice. And until that is admitted it won't change and his whole life up there is now built on a lie.

Going forward,
I'll be Living my life authentically without any shame, and that is true freedom.
Wow- S31 NAILED it!!!!!! That was brave of him.

I had to see my ex for the first time in a year yesterday at my son's graduation and honestly, I could barely look at him or be civil - all I could think of is what a jerk he has been over not helping to pay youngest son's health insurance.

As for OW and her fillers - omg, when I lived in La Jolla, there were far too many women who'd had way too much work done. And they start to look all lumpy and out of kilter - start to cross into uncanny valley territory!

(Mind you, I'm not knocking women who get a facelift or nose job or such if it really makes them happy - just that far too many ruin their faces by compulsively fiddling with them.)
definitely brave KML, and yes s31 hit it on the head.

I'm sorry for you on the graduation day. Do you ever wonder how you failed to see the differences in your x before?

As you know and relate to, to US, our children are precious blessings and we always put them first. X SAYS that's what he did but it's patently false.

And OR worse, he thinks the way he acted IS putting them first and that means he equates what HE himself wants for himself as the goal of all family members.. which is true narcissism. I did not get until recently that he and I truly do NOT share the same values and we do not see the world the same way at all.


His telling our kids how much he loves his new family is so odd and utterly lacking in empathy that it is, again, a narcissistic trait I failed to pick up on sooner.

I know I smoothed his social interactions often when he was abrupt or abrasive b/c I told myself he was "eccentric" and that I simply had better social skills, but in reality he needed me to do that or he'd have had few friends.

RE money and insurance
I'm paying for d20's meds and co-pays as it is. AND X underpays me by about $3450 per month which is about what I'm paying for d20, weirdly. (It'll take up to a year before the gov sends me my pension share directly. Meanwhile - I must rely on the most unreliable "family man" on earth for it, which means I have to file in court for it or he'll keep being a jerk. OMG smh again. )


Once she finishes college next year, I'm SURE I'll be the one to pay for her medical insurance until she's 26 ( She needs it the most and God knows x will not do it.)

X is living his new "25 free" life and all is well. Says he "breathes the freedom of 25 in with satisfaction"

as if telling the children that living free of THEIR mother, is something that will please them or sound normal or kind.
WHO THINKS THAT WAY??

oh I know who? The man I married and stayed married to for over 3 decades....ugh

x hated how his own mother was treated by his dad when they divorced. X felt bitter about it AND -- although X never said a word to his dad about that, of course,

I and the kids all know because x told us more than once...

that ^^ is sort of fascinating to me.
SO NOW X can be happy as the obstacle to his joy in life (me) has divorced him...

X also SAYS he is "in therapy now, and rapidly moving past this."

Really? Wow...

1) I am not sure if I believe him at all, b/c he's a practiced liar who seems to believe what he says or thinks we should b/c he's entitled to be believed no matter how insane or blatant the lie;

2) x may consider "therapy" to be reading an article or two,

or seeing a pre marriage counselor about blending families - a few times...(blending of course, would require that our children have a R with him,... so...)

AND

3) see how fast x is moving on? He should get an A+++...!! He is so SO healthy he barely needs this! In fact X is teaching the therapist some insightful things...x IS a DOCTOR, you know...


I don't need x to be miserable and or to see the light for MY life to be good. But I tried to decode him (and will stop )

I had to ask rhetorically, what truly contented person sees a therapist AND sends an email to his kids- in which he rants and rants and blames them in part and

WHO takes NO accountability at all for any of HIS unilateral choices (choices made over my strong objections--which is when I should have fled)??

3 Adult children who know our history and whom he has not seen in well over a year, got that email and it is NOT the letter of a healthy happy or normal man.

I'm betting x does not show his T (IF there is a T) the reply from s31...

At the moment I shake my head and think "what a tortured soul x is." And as his once upon a time bf friend, (because I was his friend even though I had no idea he was not mine)

I am sad for him. But before I go all dark on myself -

I remember what he wrote and how embittered he has become and how nasty he was when I was sick (my illness was never mentioned in his email, btw...not even once)

then I say - good riddance to the "lunacy, always served with a side dish of contempt."

I'm like that cop on patrol in a scary neighborhood -- BUT NOW I know my partner is gone and decided to be a fireman somewhere else...and so I have created my own back up.

Besides - it's better and more grace filled to remember who I thought he once was and maybe who he really was,

before the inner struggle between the authentic loving way to live,

and the deceitful, selfish resentful greedy side - won out. Maybe it got hard to keep the facade up or maybe this is how he lives for the rest of his life.

I have no idea how x could have acted with such cognitive dissonance, but he did. And For a very long long time.

Maybe it sukks to be x and maybe that's karma, OR maybe he will never fully realize the harm he did to the 4 people who loved him the most. Maybe he emerges unscathed, though the email sounds far from it.

while It would be tragic if x never learns from this and never tries to TRULY reach out to the kids as a man working to atone...

what would be far far worse and what IS within MY control

is me & my children living our own lives well. Living without the pollution of insecurity and fear, and walking on egg shells, playing the guessing game of what NOW will ease his eternal restlessness, and feeling shame about choosing my kids over money for x...

The "Pick Us!" dance is over. I'm increasingly okay with that.

Oh and My T had a great metaphor to stop me from constantly going back to regretting and asking myself "but What iff???"

She said

"Hawaii is a very beautiful island with lush greenery. But if you are there now, it's spewing lava. You must get out of the way or the lava will kill you. Run away from the lava spewing... and don't keep looking back to see if the lush island is all better now."

X sent an email filled with spew and self pity and bitterness. X is hot lava that burns those in its' path. I'm getting out of the way and staying out and I hope the kids do too.

I'm driving up to see our d20 now, b/c that's what good parents do.

We show up. We keep on loving. We don't attach terms, we don't abandon, we don't reject, we don't erase or replace. Ever.

Quote:
I'm driving up to see our d20 now, b/c that's what good parents do.

We show up. We keep on loving. We don't attach terms, we don't abandon, we don't reject, we don't erase or replace. Ever.


Amen sister!
25, all along the way on my divorce journey, I was blessed with little moments where I could see that Mr. Fantastic had given me a gift with his departure. Every time I asked who does that, I answered, nobody I want to know. I tried to redirect myself from spending time thinking about the years Id spent married to him, or the fact that Id made choices to prioritize him over my kids, etc. It helped me get closer to Meh, a place Id like to know really well someday.

Your x has done his damage. Use that as fuel for getting to Meh.

You are a great mom and a great person, and all will be well.
Originally Posted By: Maybell
25, all along the way on my divorce journey, I was blessed with little moments where I could see that Mr. Fantastic had given me a gift with his departure. Every time I asked who does that, I answered, nobody I want to know. I tried to redirect myself from spending time thinking about the years Id spent married to him, or the fact that Id made choices to prioritize him over my kids, etc. It helped me get closer to Meh, a place Id like to know really well someday.

Your x has done his damage. Use that as fuel for getting to Meh.

You are a great mom and a great person, and all will be well.


Maybell the contractions with the apostrophe is what is causing your posts to disappear - it is restored.

Edit - Reading backwards I already told you that......
Thanks, Cadet, I forgot. You did tell me that. It is such an odd thing to try to avoid.
Great points Maybell.

(**I meant to say x underpays me by about $345 a month, NOT $3450...I wish)

But yes I get what you mean by the reminders in the "gifts" of departure. When their behavior is so outrageous and so much of an "outlier" in the scale of behaviors, you suddenly see clearly that there was never anyway you could meet their insanely high , ever changing expectations. AND that you should not ever have shifted your own goals and dreams to meet them...

I read in the 4 Agreements that if someone causes you pain or tension in your life and then leaves your life, see it as a gift. Because it just is.

And that's a huge shift in me but it's really sinking in. And so is pity for x, who will either face his demons and live with them

or live with so much cognitive dissonance that it will keep him free living authentically the rest of his life, which is also very sad for him. His life up there is based on a lie. The work up there is, the finances, and the relationships and the lies he has to tell people about our children (IF he tells them at all...).

If he can erase 35 years and 3 children and a wife he knows loved him, then he's got a disorder of some magnitude. Not my job to fix it and

as my s31 said, My happiness cannot hinge on x seeing the light."


I spend at least 12 years believing x would see the light and that my loyalty and "loving him thru the MLC" and all the crappy behavior I disguised as his "confusion/fog"

when in reality the kids saw through him much better.


Yes I regret wasting so much time in denial about x.

BUT I promise to limit the regrets b/c they are not productive, once you learn from them.

Not sure how I'll watch for things in my next r, or how I'll deal with issues and enforcing deal breakers, but I KNOW I will.

I'm rebuilding my own r's with the kids b/c I can now more fully see why they were so frustrated with me at times.

I refused to see what they saw...but I do now.

I see that We are truly better off without him. Just not sure how long it will take me to feel healed, b/c I don't see healing as the same thing as meh. I'm closer to depersonalizing b/c of His email. His stated views and his dishonorable conduct during the entire divorce process, not to mention how he treated me when I was sick, help me to depersonalize it in a way b/c it's just so bad. And he mentioned NONE of this in his letter to the kids.

Man it stings beyond description to know the man I loved for decades, all of my adult life, could do these things to me.

And to our children. And take zero accountability and learn nothing. But it's true.

Yep, I know...back to me and my life and kids.

Thanks guys, really.
Yep it's hard to fathom. Because WE are not that kind of person.

Went to see the Book Club movie with my best girlfriend today. We really enjoyed it. I have to fly to Florida for a conference later this week and hope I can meet a sexy man on the plane like Diane Keaton does. Never happens but I think I'll dress cute anyway
Elle,

don't discount the possibility!

When I went to a wedding in Puerto Rico last month, a very cute waiter asked me out. He must have been 35 y/o, at most. I mentioned the age difference (without being specific, of course) and he told me his "last girlfriend was 44 - ie older than" I am... -um, okay cool

it's every middle aged woman's dream, right? Then He gave me his contact info and said he was off work at midnight. I was very intrigued by this opportunity which might not ever come up again in my life.

But My sisters were freaking out for me ("could be a serial killer!")

So I didn't go to "the party" but it was very nice to be invited.
There's definitely a younger guy/older woman thing going on out there. I blame it on Demi Moore. They know we have skills plus we won't expect anything from them.
KML

I'm not sure I'll buy the "not expect anything from the younger ones" gambit yet.

And since seeing that email from x to the kids, I have felt a plunge in my desire for any new R.

(Don't get me wrong, I am still seeing M & he is a really kind thoughtful man).

But I'm really stung by my own blindness in the past. I slap my forehead with the "WTF was I thinking/believing/projecting - that a smart woman like me would endure this??"

Which makes me realize I have to figure out how I can KNOW someone enough to let myself be in love with them.

It's going to take time. I'm just not healed, but that's not to say I'm in a bad place.

This divorce was like open heart surgery to me. The recovery period is a long one, but rushing it is a very bad idea.

I'm much better now than I was in the operating room and post op, but I'm not jumping up and down or jogging yet either.

I'm about half way there in terms of really opening my heart up.

Plus, lately I notice I am turned off by the "need for a partner" that I sense in some others. As if a new R is proof that we are desirable people who deserve better than we got. I already know that. And another significant other involved with an un-evolved ME is not the solution to that.

That perceived need to be part of a couple, is part of what allowed me to stay blind and paralyzed for too long.

As I go forward, I'm going to make sure I'm truly fine on my own, so that any coupling is done out of desire, and not need.

Make sense?
Totally.
The first few years after my ex left, I subconsciously chose unavailable men precisely because I wasn't really ready to step back into being fully in a relationship.

Even when I did finally get in a relationship with ex-Mr Tall Dark and Handsome I didn't feel that infatuated feeling; but he was present and appeared caring and I enjoyed the novelty of being adored. After all those Love Avoidant guys I felt like I should enjoy this. He didn't tick off all my boxes but then who does, right?

Unfortunately, as you know, all was not as it appeared with him and I'm still trying to shift his manic focus off of me. I'm getting ready to date again (actual new person dating, not the FWB contact with former Love Avoidant date) but finding it hard to drum up enough enthusiasm. I WANT a steady date, someone I can hang with and share good morning texts with, but do I REALLY want to be all-in? Maybe not. Maybe if my FWB hadn't ghosted me I could have been perfectly happy with a once a month date with him and nothing more. But since he's gone silent I'll have to do some work if I want to date.

I've chatted a little with a potential coffee date guy who seems worth giving a chance. I'll probably meet him next weekend. He seems better employed than some of my previous dates (Air Force then some kind of computer network related work for a large business) . He plays in chess clubs so smart and nerdy (which could be good or bad depending on degree of social impairment). Has a caterpillar mustache that is a turnoff but hoping it looks better in person. Keeping an open mind.

Certainly I'm concerned about my ability to choose well. ExBF certainly pulled the wool over my eyes. And I missed the signs of his bipolar disorder because I was so used to my ex husband's hypomania.

Yet at 62 I feel like I need to start dating again and not let too much more time pass. This one year hiatus was necessary but can't continue. It's been five years since I was Online dating and guess what - the guys are five years older too! I'd like to get SOME time to enjoy a guy before he turns into Santa Claus!
Choosing well?

Reluctant?

Older?

Yes, of course.

Here is the rub, you ladies 25, kml and even V are Awesome!

And once you know then you can never unknow. There are lovely guys out there and some very extra special men who find dating tough too. And are protecting their hearts, who struggle even to ask out a real live woman that they like the look of. Just read the stories here.

The lovely wonderful potential partner is there for you. Just as they always have been. You know the red flags and it's worth exploring the reasons why you choose the men you do.

I am not sure that Mr Right is on OLD. I prefer IRL. Apart from studying now, I aim to chat (on average) to two potential dates a day. You never know.

However whatever works for you. You are ready kml to find that new guy that fits like a glove.

And 25 I see you are planning to be somewhere warmer than Alaska with your heart.

V
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

It's going to take time. I'm just not healed, but that's not to say I'm in a bad place.

This divorce was like open heart surgery to me. The recovery period is a long one, but rushing it is a very bad idea.



Originally Posted By: kml
Totally.
The first few years after my ex left, I subconsciously chose unavailable men precisely because I wasn't really ready to step back into being fully in a relationship.

I'm getting ready to date again (actual new person dating, not the FWB contact with former Love Avoidant date) but finding it hard to drum up enough enthusiasm. I WANT a steady date, someone I can hang with and share good morning texts with, but do I REALLY want to be all-in? Maybe not. Maybe if my FWB hadn't ghosted me I could have been perfectly happy with a once a month date with him and nothing more. But since he's gone silent I'll have to do some work if I want to date.



It seems like we are all having issues being emotionally unavailable, or maybe seeking out others who are emotionally unavailable.

I'd really like to find someone who was cool with getting together every few weeks, but just about everyone I have dated wants to be in a full blown relationship. I'm just not ready for that.
Not ready for a full blown relationship...


I hear you. Speaking of the opposite -

X remarried last month, weeks after our D was finalized, and he did not invite our kids to the wedding. Has not seen any of them in 20 months - (ie when we separated.)

Of course, there was "overlap" of our m with his new one...


But My feelings aside, when I heard he was marrying OW I literally thought to myself,

"what an idiot x is." I even had a moment of pity and SMH for him b/c I thought, "you never learned to be alone. You NEED an admirer so badly that you'll throw away all the shared history and wound the 4 who loved you the most just so your fragile ego gets a bandaid and you won't be - God forbid, alone with yourself."

Recently I've seen him more as a tragic figure than anything else. It helps me diffuse the anger without seeing him in a flattering & false light.

Because leaving any marriage and entering a new R quickly, is foolish. To leave a 35 year marriage to enter another partner's bed in a "FULL BLOWN M" is utterly lacking in insight.

I believe x has learned nothing useful or healthy since we parted ways. I believe he's spending energy avoiding the damage he directly caused and the collateral damage is something he cannot face either.

In fact, he's doubled down on many of his distortions of victimhood. Just one example is x complaining about the "dangerous drives home on Friday nights to make everyone happy - I BLED for you & I'm exhausted..." (those are quotes).

REALITY CHECK - x insisted on living 4 hours N of us, over my strong objections. It was his solo decision, based on flawed data, too. To hear him now see himself as a victim/martyr is just weirdly inaccurate.

The distortions are many and they go very deep. His narrative has swaths of amnesia (like him taking all the marital money from a joint account, is simply not discussed.

Worse, His not paying for d20's college, while listing the "college educations" HE paid for as more proof of his being "a good father" . I mean, did he literally forget that he cut D20 off last year?? )

Jim, we release them to their journey, even if they drive thru a cornfield and off a cliff.

I did my best for a very long time. (Probably too long, but that regret is both useless and unknowable).

If I knew then what I know now, I'd have held him more accountable & a lot sooner.

It would either have ended the M sooner, which would mean I was 10+ years younger & more easily back in the work force, and probably in a much healthier R, OR it would have changed things in the m. I find that doubtful, though, given the things x has done which show a surprising capacity for cruelty and long term dishonesty. So I'm guessing I would have cut him loose a lot earlier.

What I can tell you is that despite my remarks and journalling here, I am getting to the other side. It is a 2 steps forward, one back, process. But on the whole, more and more, I look forward to MY future. And I don't want to factor others in the choices I make, for the first time in my life. (Of course if the kids needed me, I'd be back. )

But deciding where to live, what to eat, and what job to take or do, is ALL MINE to make. And it's freeing me, finally. No more pretzeling myself and my career (what career??) to accommodate x's relentless changing goals (which always involved more money, btw).

Do you have a good solid T to help guide you and keep you on track? I do.


And no matter how he treats his new wife, he did not treat me or our children well, for a long time. We were not a priority of his and I did not truly believe that, until the past 6 months. My kids saw it years ago. I refused to.

So, who or what is your w's priority? YOU? The Status quo? Unknown? Do you fear she has Secrets?

Finally, one more point.

I read an article about how to see our new R's (and what we ought to have had in our marriages).

It's the "F--k YES!" factor.

So when I date a man, I don't want to date someone who seems on the fence, or frequently has doubts about his feelings or our R.

I want, and now require a man who says "F- YES!" when asked if he and I ought to spend time together. Not forcing a marriage, by any means.

But I refuse to spend my remaining time on earth wondering where I stand with someone who should freaking know & show it with some gusto.

Do you believe that you deserve this?
Quote:
So when I date a man, I don't want to date someone who seems on the fence, or frequently has doubts about his feelings or our R.

I want, and now require a man who says "F- YES!" when asked if he and I ought to spend time together. Not forcing a marriage, by any means.


Hear, hear!
This was, actually, what drew me to crazy exBF - he seemed, at least, to be enthusiastic about me. And it was nice basking in that, although now I can see the crazy that went with it. Still, despite his lies and craziness, I'm pretty sure that part was genuine - and why shouldn't it be? Even the unavailable guys I dated ALL thought I was fantastic. Very life-affirming after my exH's negativity.

Definitely not settling for anybody in the future who doesn't think I'm grand just as I am.
Funny line from some nerdy guy's OKC profile today: "For people whose opinion I do care about the things I'd like for them to think about me are; he's smart, he's sexy, and he's kind. In reality I'll settle for them not thinking; he's strange and he doesn't use semicolons correctly."

Made me laugh out loud. Plus - smart sexy and kind? What else do I need?
25, a couple of things you've said resonate.....

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I believe x has learned nothing useful or healthy since we parted ways. I believe he's spending energy avoiding the damage he directly caused and the collateral damage is something he cannot face either.


Jim, we release them to their journey, even if they drive thru a cornfield and off a cliff.


We had lunch a little while ago to talk about the divorce, and she told me about her problems. It was all I could do not to point out to her that virtually all of her problems are caused, at least indirectly, by her decision to file and move out. It would have gone in one ear and out the other, though.

What I can tell you is that despite my remarks and journalling here, I am getting to the other side. It is a 2 steps forward, one back, process. But on the whole, more and more, I look forward to MY future. And I don't want to factor others in the choices I make, for the first time in my life. (Of course if the kids needed me, I'd be back. )

But deciding where to live, what to eat, and what job to take or do, is ALL MINE to make. And it's freeing me, finally.

A very wise woman (you) said it's not a linear process, and you are so right. Some days I feel good about where things are going, and others, I am really upset. But it is sooo nice to be the guy in charge with no one to answer to.

Finally, one more point.

I read an article about how to see our new R's (and what we ought to have had in our marriages).

It's the "F--k YES!" factor.

So when I date a man, I don't want to date someone who seems on the fence, or frequently has doubts about his feelings or our R.

I want, and now require a man who says "F- YES!" when asked if he and I ought to spend time together. Not forcing a marriage, by any means.

But I refuse to spend my remaining time on earth wondering where I stand with someone who should freaking know & show it with some gusto.

Do you believe that you deserve this?

This part of your post made me think a little bit. I'm not sure I want someone SO enthusiastic right now. I think if I am going to bask in their "F YES"ness, that I should be considerate of their wanting to spend time with me. I don't WANT to have to be concerned with their feelings. Maybe I'm being very selfish, I don't know, but I just broke it off with a great woman who felt that way about me. She wasn't my priority, and after a while, it just felt like I was using her.

With your new found freedom, when you want to go to the museum, and he wants to go to the ball game (and you really don't), which are you going to choose to do
?

Originally Posted By: kml
Funny line from some nerdy guy's OKC profile today: "For people whose opinion I do care about the things I'd like for them to think about me are; he's smart, he's sexy, and he's kind. In reality I'll settle for them not thinking; he's strange and he doesn't use semicolons correctly."

Made me laugh out loud. Plus - smart sexy and kind? What else do I need?


THIS^^ would greatly intrigue me. Oh, yeah.
X remarried already, wow, just WOW!

I just can't fathom why any WAS would cut ties with their kids, it just blows my mind. How do you turn love for your own kids on and off like a water spigot. And what does that say about that person. It says nothing good, that's what.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
Jim, we release them to their journey, even if they drive thru a cornfield and off a cliff.


Snickered out loud at that one! grin
Originally Posted By: Jim1234
25, a couple of things you've said resonate.....

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

I believe x has learned nothing useful or healthy since we parted ways. I believe he's spending energy avoiding the damage he directly caused and the collateral damage is something he cannot face either.


Jim, we release them to their journey, even if they drive thru a cornfield and off a cliff.


We had lunch a little while ago to talk about the divorce, and she told me about her problems. It was all I could do not to point out to her that virtually all of her problems are caused, at least indirectly, by her decision to file and move out. It would have gone in one ear and out the other, though.


I've mentally written empirically verifiable arguments to my X as to what he has done to our children, and assets, to counter his insane rantings. I wanted to point out that EVERY single complaint of his, was DIRECTLY caused by HIS SOLO choices, all of which were made over my objection...

but the reality is that he will NOT slap his forehead and see the light. At least not due to anything that I say to him.

Congrats on your restraint b/c if X had uttered the ranting in my presence, I would not have done as well as you.




Finally, one more point.

I read an article about how to see our new R's (and what we ought to have had in our marriages).

It's the "F--k YES!" factor.

So when I date a man, I don't want to date someone who seems on the fence, or frequently has doubts about his feelings or our R.

I want, and now require a man who says "F- YES!" when asked if he and I ought to spend time together. Not forcing a marriage, by any means.

But I refuse to spend my remaining time on earth wondering where I stand with someone who should freaking know & show it with some gusto.

Do you believe that you deserve this?

This part of your post made me think a little bit. I'm not sure I want someone SO enthusiastic right now. I think if I am going to bask in their "F YES"ness, that I should be considerate of their wanting to spend time with me. I don't WANT to have to be concerned with their feelings. Maybe I'm being very selfish, I don't know, but I just broke it off with a great woman who felt that way about me. She wasn't my priority, and after a while, it just felt like I was using her.
[color:#3333FF]
2 things. On one hand, I suppose my premise is that I feel similarly and don't want to have to "win" someone. My view of their feelings matters b/c I'm not up for a guessing game IF there's going to be a relationship.

But I think your scenario is more that your feelings did not match hers and
the disparity between you two, bothered you. And I get that.

IT can be uncomfortable and it can feel like pressure, or as if you are using them.


With your new found freedom, when you want to go to the museum, and he wants to go to the ball game (and you really don't), which are you going to choose to do[/color]?





So far, there are dates which he plans, and which have consistently been great, because i think he's planning them that way. Valentines and seeing live theater are such dates. He really put thought into it (and even if I had not liked it, the thoughtfulness that went into it was very charming to me.)

When we want to see a film, usually it's M that picks 3 he'd like to see, and I choose one of those.
We occasionally reverse that, but I'm consistently happy with his choices thus far. He also probes about what mood I'm in for a film.

And if I really did not want to do something, but he really really did, I'd have to actively dislike it not to do it. I mean, it would have to offend me, I think.

It's just not a contest to me about who decides more, as long as I know my opinion was factored in.

M wanted to take dance lessons with me and at first I thought it was a great idea. In fact I may have suggested it, come to think of it.

But X and I danced for all of my adult life and X is a great dancer. (Maybe the best one I know. Unfortunately).

Dancing was very erotic and romantic for me/us to do. I cannot replicate that with anyone, anytime soon. And I don't want to feel like we are imitating or that I'm trying to recreate something from my past with a new man. (Indeed, I'm positive it's what X is doing with his "new replacement family" and it's very needy and false, to me, frankly.) It's as if I'm "plugging in" the substitute and moving on without really SEEING that it is what I'm doing.

In time, I think this will change. I WILL dance again! I already did at 3 weddings. But to take lessons with a new guy, to focus on dancing with a new man who does not know me that way, is something I'm not yet ready for.

Maybe that's what tips us off about what we are really ready for.

For about a week now, I've been feeling very hindered in my ability to fully love.

Distrusting myself more. So, I'll let that settle some, and see how I evolve.
How's it going girl?
Yo, girl, check in or we'll think you had another stroke.
25? Still worried about you. Check in.
Checking in again - where are you?
I've seen 25 over on another site from time to time. She seems to be doing reasonably well. I think her most recent post there was within the last week.
She posted on fakebook on Tuesday, she is alive and well.
I have seen her on another site, I think she has begun her journey to healing from her sitch.

V
kml

I just saw that she is moving to Poland to teach, as that is on her bucket list of jobs to have. (teaching)

So she is alive and well.
Poland! That's cool - I think. Considering how much she hated Alaska that still seems pretty far north, but an adventure and think of all the European sightseeing she could do from there!
I wish I new what some of these other cool sites are that we cannot name.
And how people become Facebook friends? That's awesome. I don't have Facebook, but I have Instagram.
I met holding IRL here in SA. He's a DBer who was on the NC thread, he has now moved to the divorce thread. We still keep in contact. Speaking of him, I need to call him tomorrow. A few ladies and others have done a meet up. I also think that PM was active a few years back.
I found that if you read back on some people's threads that you can often find different hints about where they can be found. I've found a number of people that way but only connected to a couple, usually after they've found me. It can be quite startling to have someone who you only "know" semi-anonymously suddenly pop into 3 dimensions.

I do agree with the policy of discouraging posters from connecting IRL. For some, especially those in early days who really want to, they are also quite vulnerable. Trolls and other nasties are indeed a thing that the moderators I am sure are kept somewhat busy keeping at bay are also watching.

As far as keeping mentions of other sites from the board, this is underneath it all, a commercial enterprise. If we play in this sandbox we need to abide by the rules. I've posted from time to time on a couple of other sites and some who do are fairly obvious in their screen name or story when they are also here. I've gotten private messages on those forums which are basically a wave "hello".

Just my 2 cents.
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