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Posted By: SteveLW Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 04/30/18 07:15 AM
Previous threads:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2778449#Post2778449
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2779597#Post2779597
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2780850#Post2780850
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2784147#Post2784147

Thanks everyone, this forum has been invaluable.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/02/18 02:28 AM
So last night was MC. Most of the session was centered on our D, and the issues we are having. Counselor agreed that our focus should be on her for now, with the level of changes that she is facing.

When we got home we confronted her.

DENY DENY DENY

Even when showing her messages where she used bad language and other discussions she shouldn't have had, she claimed a "friend" knew her Snapchat pw and was posting as her. She held on to this explanation and would not give it up. Even with her mother and me telling her we didn't believe that, she would not give that up.

My W told her things are going change. Her freedom is being curtailed. We haven't decided if and when she will get her phone back. We are going to start instituting a couple of family devotions each week, as well as a family game night. We admitted to making mistakes, I admitted to making a lot of mistakes.

We saw some flashes of her recent bad attitude, and we those moments were met with extremely forceful responses suggesting to her that we are in control.

We'll see how it goes moving forward. She has been much more well-behaved since she realized we knew some of her behavior and since the contact with a second teacher.
Posted By: Jim1234 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/02/18 12:50 PM
Good for you. I think the fact that W and you are on the same page will make things sooooo much easier. Keep it up.
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/03/18 12:54 PM
Hi Steve, as stressful as it is with your D, for her to see her parents as a team will make a huge difference. During these times I am glad you and your W are taking this as priority and facing it together. Putting family first is the first step. Hope it brings about a change in your sitch with you W.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/03/18 02:00 PM
Thanks arsh. I agree that being a team is important.

As far as things between W and I. Still progressing and doing well.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/03/18 02:10 PM
Acting as a united front regarding you D is huge.

Saying a prayer for your sitch.

Sounds like you and W are on top of it.
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/03/18 10:46 PM
Steve I have a teenager and I KNOW it can get real tough-Keep your chin up and my prayers are with you.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/04/18 01:09 AM
A couple of observations on the forum:

1st, I am taken aback by the recent reactions of some here getting advice, and their vitriol towards those that provide advice they disagree with. Remember, everyone here is trying to help. No one is trying to make you feel bad, make you feel inferior, make you do the wrong things. When people are frank with you, even if it stings, you should remember what I just said, and be thankful for the forthrightness. Remember, if someone points out something they are perceiving, you should be introspective about that, and not assume the worst in the other poster. Being non-receptive to 2x4s is probably a big reason you are in the marital situation that brought you to the board. So think about why what someone typed is hurting you, and realize that it probably has more to do with you than the other poster.

2nd, when you've been posting regularly here, and you go dark from the board for several days or even weeks, where is the common courtesy to just check in and give a brief update, even it is just to say not much has changed? Some of these folks give a lot of time and effort and thought into their advice, the least you could do is check back in after a couple or a few days to let them know how things are going.

Anyway, just a couple of thoughts I've had recently. I see this forum as a community, a community I care deeply about. Marriage is sacred and worth trying to save! There are many caring people here that are passionate about that endeavor so try to remember that.
Posted By: Dtrmned Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/04/18 01:43 AM
Well said Steve! I value your input on my posts and see that you and a bunch of others do take the time to read, understand and put a ton of effort into your responses. There are and will be in the future, times that I needed to be hit by the 2x4 or just explained a better way to handle or word a situation. This is an amazing board! It is a very integral part of my support group. I appreciate it very much. Like everyone else, I wouldn't have found it unless my MR was in such a turmoil and trouble, but here we all are. Wishing everyone well in their own particular situation and hope for positive outcomes in their lives!
Posted By: 44tries Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/04/18 02:00 AM
Great post, Steve! You are always such a positive presence here and bring a lot of optimism and enthusiasm. The input I have received from you on my own thread has been incredibly encouraging and, though I don't know you in real life, I really think you have a gift for seeing the bright side and bringing positive energy.

Not everyone has that style, but it certainly doesn't mean that they aren't posting with great wisdom and the best of intentions. Personally, I love receiving a balance of input from everyone in this community. The 2x4s are 100% necessary for getting rid of the tunnel vision and waking us up to reality. They are vital for looking at the situation objectively and being able to grow from it. They might sting, but like you said, they should be getting you to really think about your own faults and how to improve. If you can't do that, this board probably won't be able to help much and you probably won't be able to do what you need to save your M, which is the reason we are all here!

I hope anyone who feels they have been attacked here, or got offended because they got hit with a 2x4, reads your post and benefits.
Steve, well done with your D! My ex and I have been through similar with all 3 of our kids, and when they around the same age as your D. I really think it's a rebellion thing, the kids at some point start testing limits to see what they can get away with. The thing is, they WANT their parents to intervene and put some discipline in their lives. Sure they'll complain about what jerks their parents are being, but inside they know you're loving them and teaching them important life lessons. Our experience was that once the kids saw they couldn't cross certain lines in our house, then they never tried to cross them again. Both D's are grown now and incredibly focused, so it was just a phase. S15 is getting there, he's just emerging from his rebellious stage.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/04/18 05:37 AM
Thanks AS. It has been stressful. But I agree, I think she was testing us and us putting our foot down drew a line she now knows not to cross. Trusting her again is going to be tough though.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/07/18 01:01 AM
So last night after we went to bed I initiated a R discussion. This the first time I've done that since February outside of MC.

I think I had mentioned before, that after the 2-3 weeks where she was crazy sexual, that she had casually mentioned to me that "the sex thing seemed to be gone for now". I didn't think too much of it and have actually initiate twice with her since then.

The last time was a little different. She was clearly not quite as into it has she had been the several times before. (This was a week ago Saturday.)

Also we still do not kiss above closed mouth "smooches". Not really just pecks, but definitely not passionate. And while she occasionally is affectionate, 99% of the time I initiate the affection whether it be hugs, holding hands, sitting close, snuggling, etc. (She still is most receptive to snuggling in bed in the morning before getting up for the day.)

So I mentioned it. I stayed calm and just asked some probing questions. I made it just informational and tried to make it as non-confrontational as I could. I worked hard not to attack and just ask things like "why do you think you aren't affectionate anymore?" "Any thoughts on why we still can't kiss passionately?"

Probably the most confrontational question was "You casually mentioned that the sex desire had disappeared, was that a hint for me to back off sexually?"

I got mostly "I don't knows". She then launched into a fairly upset sounding diatribe about how things were still up in the air between us and the marriage, and that is why we are in counseling. And that even the counselor said it would take a longtime.

I tried to tell her that I was just trying to openly communicate with her. That I was trying to get clarity, after what happened a month and a half ago (where we were both initiating sex to great success), as to how to proceed for the time-being. That I didn't want to pressure her and initiate if she was receptive to it. Again, she didn't know.

It was difficult not to probe more but I apologized if I had upset her and said good night and turned over.

However, I didn't sleep very well. Maybe got 3 hours on and off with the most being about a 2 hour block. Mind just kept spinning. Some of my thoughts:

1) She clearly isn't as committed to the marriage as I thought she was. While she told the MC a few weeks ago that she was more for staying in the marriage than leaving it, that apparently is like a 51-49 thing as opposed to what I thought was closer to 90-10. But that she was so quick to jump to questioning the future shows she isn't committed.

2) Apparently, based on some other things she said ("We had a year's worth of sex during that period a few weeks ago." "I think couples get to the point where they just want their space instead of being affectionate and snuggly, like your parents sleeping in separate beds.") she sees us staying married without a lot of physical contact. Something I am not interested in.

3) We had an exchange where she commented on the book the MC is having us read. The book mentioned how a couple was mismatched related to affection, until the one that was thinking the lack of affection was related to them, realized that the lack of affection was due to their spouse's past. She said it in a way like "so my lack of affection doesn't have anything to do with you." I pointed out that I could accept that explanation except for the majority of our marriage she was very affectionate. And was the primary initiator of the affection. This highlighted to me that she is still rewriting our history because she then said she didn't remember being that way except while we were dating. HUH? She was very affectionate until about a year ago.

I also mentioned that my fear was that there was a pattern we went through, where she felt underappreciated and ignored, then went looking for it elsewhere. I said my fear is that if it continues that she would again go looking elsewhere to which her response was "I don't think I will". It was said less than convincingly I might add.

So all of this clearly points to the fact that while strides and improvements have been made, clearly she isn't completely over her waywardness or MLC or walkaway syndrome or whatever she has been going through.

At one point I asked if she had any ideas why after being insatiable suddenly it had stopped. Her answer "I am 50 now." Admittedly the period where she was so insatiable was the weekend before her 50th birthday, but that seems so illogical. (I didn't tell her that by the way). Could that really have something to do with it? Like one last "in my 40s" sexual push? That just is so weird to me.

Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut obviously, but I will be bringing this up in our next MC session. And I am ready to accept any 2x4s you all want to send my way.

Situation with D14 continues to improve. She is much more interested in completing her school work. She thinks she did well on both of her math tests last week (scores should be posted online this week), and has even had a better attitude at times. Though last night she got an attitude over being asked to a household chore. So it is still a work in progress.

If you are still with me, thanks for reading. Any and all perspectives would be appreciated.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/07/18 02:04 PM
Steve, this all sounds similar to what I have experienced along the way. BTW, my W stated her EA just before her big 50. We had more sex during the A than now. First she said she didn't want to confuse me. When I explained that it didn't. Now she says it confuses her. IDK

I know you are tired of all the "I don't knows" I know I am.

Yes, you shouldn't have started the R talk. I understand the need. Fact is we rarely know more after these discussions.

More ambivalence more confusion.

Stay strong, buddy.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 12:46 AM
Thanks RR. The hard part is that my W is back in almost every other way. But she just isn't as affectionate as she used to be. It is really hard to know if it just a natural occurrence as she claims, or if it a side-effect of her recent WW syndrome. Hard to say.

I did poll some friends about it and it seems that most couples that I know anecdotally have similar dynamics going on in their marriages.

Again, women marry a man hoping he will change, men marry a woman hoping she doesn't. We don't, they do. S*cks to be us.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 01:17 AM
Please don't fall for the "things seem to be getting back to normal trap" You will be here again.

Reconciliation is the goal. Real change comes from Revolution. not evolution.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 01:30 AM
Originally Posted By: RR17
Please don't fall for the "things seem to be getting back to normal trap" You will be here again.

Reconciliation is the goal. Real change comes from Revolution. not evolution.


Well, I mean our new normal. Not the pre-bomb date normal. The 5-6 months leading up to BD were not normal. It was months of growing apart without even realizing it.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 01:38 AM
New normal with drift into old normal without reconciliation.

Take a look at sandi's thread on the subject.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551824#Post2551824
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 01:40 AM
Originally Posted By: RR17
New normal with drift into old normal without reconciliation.

Take a look at sandi's thread on the subject.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551824#Post2551824


Yep, got it. I am resolved not to let that happen!
Posted By: DonH Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 05:44 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
Again, women marry a man hoping he will change, men marry a woman hoping she doesn't. We don't, they do. S*cks to be us.


Wow, I've not heard, read, or thought about it that way before, but that is almost profound. It was clearly the case with my ExW. Add in she was never honest with me about what she really wanted, heck not about much else either. But yeah, she hoped I'd change. I clearly was very very honest and forthcoming about who I am. I'm brutally honest and what you see us what you get. I did not change, but she did or decided what she really wanted was now going to be pursued. Don't get me wrong, I was a bad husband in many ways but wow your comment really hits home. Good stuff.
Originally Posted By: Steve85
I think I had mentioned before, that after the 2-3 weeks where she was crazy sexual, that she had casually mentioned to me that "the sex thing seemed to be gone for now". I didn't think too much of it and have actually initiate twice with her since then.


I have read so many sitches here where people get stuck in a sexless R, and I don't recall reading one where the sex ever came back once they let that happen. I mean it's not -completely- gone for you yet, but it sounds to me like your W is laying the groundwork for a sexless M. Personally if it were me I would flat-out tell her that it is not acceptable (seems like I have to "lay down the law" on that at least once in every serious romantic relationship I have!)

Quote:
Also we still do not kiss above closed mouth "smooches". Not really just pecks, but definitely not passionate.


Yeah that's a concern. Some women think kissing is too "personal" and only do that with someone they are "in love" with so it's not a good sign.

Quote:
So I mentioned it. I stayed calm and just asked some probing questions. I made it just informational and tried to make it as non-confrontational as I could. I worked hard not to attack and just ask things like "why do you think you aren't affectionate anymore?" "Any thoughts on why we still can't kiss passionately?"

Probably the most confrontational question was "You casually mentioned that the sex desire had disappeared, was that a hint for me to back off sexually?"


It sounds like you handled it pretty well, I think I would have also mentioned that I have physical needs that need to be met and that it's important that she respects that on a regular basis. Have you read No More Mister Nice Guy? It gets into this type of stuff about stating what your needs are. Not a good idea after BD, but in piecing or in a healthy relationship it's a must.

Quote:
I got mostly "I don't knows". She then launched into a fairly upset sounding diatribe about how things were still up in the air between us and the marriage, and that is why we are in counseling. And that even the counselor said it would take a longtime.


And what, she shouldn't be expected to have sex with you in the meantime? That's ridiculous.

Quote:
1) She clearly isn't as committed to the marriage as I thought she was.


Agreed.

Quote:
2)"I think couples get to the point where they just want their space instead of being affectionate and snuggly, like your parents sleeping in separate beds.") she sees us staying married without a lot of physical contact. Something I am not interested in.


First, who gives a crap about "other couples". She expects you to model your marriage on sexless examples? No, not acceptable. Next time she says this then tell her it's not acceptable to you. You say you're not interested in that, TELL HER.

Quote:
I also mentioned that my fear was that there was a pattern we went through, where she felt underappreciated and ignored, then went looking for it elsewhere. I said my fear is that if it continues that she would again go looking elsewhere to which her response was "I don't think I will". It was said less than convincingly I might add.


It sounds to me like the way you talk to her is very passive/aggressive MNG stuff. Talking to her about your fears and such. You're afraid she might look elsewhere? How about YOU tell HER she should be afraid YOU will look elsewhere. State your needs. Expect them to be met. Put her on notice. Obviously you can't go all Jeckyl and Hyde on her, but you need to slowly shift to a more alpha position.

Quote:
At one point I asked if she had any ideas why after being insatiable suddenly it had stopped. Her answer "I am 50 now." Admittedly the period where she was so insatiable was the weekend before her 50th birthday, but that seems so illogical. (I didn't tell her that by the way). Could that really have something to do with it? Like one last "in my 40s" sexual push? That just is so weird to me.


If I remember right (unless I'm mixing up two situations, which has happened before) a lot of us warned you that we didn't trust her sudden explosive interest in sex. It did not seem at all genuine. Don't try to figure out what a WAS is thinking or what their motivations are because there is no explanation. All you can control is YOU. So what do YOU want moving forward? Tell her what you want and expect.

Quote:
Anyway, I should have kept my mouth shut obviously, but I will be bringing this up in our next MC session. And I am ready to accept any 2x4s you all want to send my way.


I disagree, I think you did the right thing in saying something. I think you should be more assertive/ alpha in these discussions, but the dialog needs to happen or things will just continue to deteriorate.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 09:07 AM
Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.

I did read NMMNG. And yes I still struggle with NGS. I am better after reading the book though. I have been much less passive-aggressive since reading the book.
Posted By: JRuss Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 09:36 AM
Have you read the pursuit/distance materials cadet linked after you first posted?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/08/18 01:38 PM
Originally Posted By: JRuss
Have you read the pursuit/distance materials cadet linked after you first posted?


Yes. Multiple times. Admittedly I didn't adhere strictly to them, for various reasons documented in my threads.
Posted By: JRuss Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/09/18 03:54 AM
But you're still pursuing, and she's, predictably, still distancing. Why do you think this is going to change if the underlying behaviors don't change?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/09/18 04:05 AM
JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing, we are in MC, and she is doing the work.

I am hesitant to call it piecing yet, but we are both doing work on the MR which wasn't the case prior to mid-Feb.
Posted By: EastTN Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/09/18 07:26 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing


Everyone always says that. Here's you a few days ago:

Quote:
Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/09/18 08:16 AM
Originally Posted By: EastTN
Originally Posted By: Steve85
JRuss, no not usually. I did "pursue" with the R talk the other night. But in general I am not pursuing


Everyone always says that. Here's you a few days ago:

Quote:
Thanks AS. I should mention that all of her actions still suggest that she wants to work on the marriage, but the minute I apply pressure she falls back on it.


And I hadn't applied pressure until the other night in weeks.
Posted By: Salazar Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 12:39 AM
Steve,

Although our stitches are different, I do see some similarities. In my case, physical rejection (lack of hugging etc) is one of the things that my W cites as causing her the most pain. She is of the mindset that if she brought it up, it wasn't my idea and it shouldn't count if I do anything about it. At this point, it is a moot point I guess, because she is unwilling to have any physical touch. In my case, I have been unsure how to fix "physical rejection" without physical touch.

For several months after BD I tried being either aggressive or not doing anything at all. Neither gave any results. Just a few weekends ago I started to try and work very light/small touching into the very conversations that we had in person. She didn't recoil and it actually seemed to help some. I do not think it is a one for one comparison to some of what you are experiencing, but I think some of the ideas may help you. You can do a web search for "Kino" and it talks about things in more detail, but in my case, I would do things like, say "is your shoulder sunburnt, it looks sort of red" and then at same instant reach over and lightly touch the shoulder and say "is this sore at all". Again, I know this is very minor but it is a progression from my previous zero contact. You can adjust to your own level, but remember to show her the way, not try and talk about it before hand. Just my two cents.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 12:48 AM
Thank you Salazar. I do need to clarify that, fortunately, my W wasn't opposed to all physical touching. The only thing she really can't do is kiss me passionately. And while I've talked to a lot of people about this being somewhat normal in couples that have been together for a longtime, I do know that it was something she really enjoyed prior to our current problems. So it something that I hope will eventually return.

But yes, I found another marriage saving expert (not MWD) a while back that had the concept of "touch" charges. Very similar to what you are describing. So putting your hand on her back as you passed behind her. Or giving a rub on the shoulder when you walked past her on the couch. Stuff like that. I instituted those as well as the touching she was open to (hugging, closed mouth kisses, stroking her hair, giving her foot and back massages, cuddling) and I think it all helped in turning the ship around in the intimacy department.

We still have a ways to go but her and I are in so much of a better place all the way around since BD last Dec.
Posted By: Salazar Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 01:05 AM
Steve,

Ah, ok I got it. Perhaps it will build slowly over time when she gets out of her own head.

Slightly non-related, I know your sig states giving her a year to get her act together and then you will file. This is something that I have struggled with. On one hand, I set a similar year time frame thinking that at that point, maybe my filing will push things along one way or the other. Then again I think, I do not believe in D and I should leave it up to her to do it. But if we are living separate lives at that point, is the limbo worth it? Thoughts? Feel free to respond here or on my thread. I wanted to ask you directly though, since you have a clear stance on it (at least in your sig).
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 01:17 AM
Coincidentally, LoneWolf asked me about this in his thread. Here is my response to him:

Quote:
LW, yes I have struggled with ever filing for D. When I spoke to a lawyer about 6 weeks in to our sitch, I almost felt dirty afterward. (Of course, that could just have been due to talking to a lawyer! I kid I kid!)

The 1 year thing was on the advice of another anti-divorce author (not MWD). She preaches even tougher love than MWD for a WW. And her goal is that you do not allow limbo to linger for years. She recommends a one year deadline with the theory being that the WW really doesn't want to give up the cozy, secure life they have with their H, but just wants to run wild for a while.

I do not think I will ever have to file. I have stated on this forum before that due to my beliefs, the only time D is justified is due to physical infidelity. When it is not physical, but just emotional and visual (photos and videos) the line gets a lot more blurry. Yes I know that Christ said that looking on someone and lusting is committing adultery in your heart, but adultery of the heart isn't given as grounds for divorce. Sexual sin (called fornication in the King James) is.

So yes, very good question. Of course, D is a legal proceeding, not a spiritual one, so the real problem with D for anything other than adultery, is remarrying since you haven't been "loosed" from your MR by God.


So yes, my thinking (and this expert's belief) was also to limit how long limbo would drag on. At he point I typed this my W had shown no action to indicate she would remain in the marriage, even if her actions on actually leaving had slowed or even stopped. She was still saying she was done. (Remember, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.)
Posted By: Salazar Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 02:15 AM
Steve,

Thanks for pasting that. I know you do not have everything figured out (none of us do), but I find your posts to be very insightful. Thank you for sharing.


As you are somewhat on the other side, what type of response worked for you when she would directly say she was done? Ignore it? Acknowledge it? Acknowledge and disagree? No reply at all to it?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/17/18 02:28 AM
So admittedly I didn't always handle it the best. I think a lot of times she was looking for a reaction and I unfortunately fell into the trap.

I think the best course of action is to either ignore it, or to validate it. Read the validation thread. Something like "I am sorry you feel that way. I feel that we can still make this work."

Maybe someone else has a better response. And it will depend on your sitch. Is she consistent in saying that or does she have moments where she talks about coming back to the MR? My wife was definitely right in the middle. One moment wanting D the next wanting to stay. So adjust accordingly. When in doubt just let it go.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/19/18 01:59 PM
So things continue to improve.

We had a good MC session Tuesday. I should point out that we had a really bad family tragedy on her side of the family on Monday. I don't want to go into details but just say that it was very hard on her, and it was difficult for me as well. It seems to have brought us closer.

A couple of small things today. She came and gave me a kiss out of the blue, for no reason, this morning. I was actually a bit taken aback by it! Then she had an event at church today, and D14 went with her.

After they got home we were in the kitchen and we hugged. I didn't initiate, neither did she, it was just one of those spontaneous hugs that used to occur back when things were good. She laid her head against my chest. After a few seconds I started to pull away, and she wouldn't let me. That is the first time she's insisted on a longer hug since back when things were good.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. I know these are small things, but those are the kinds of things that really seem to make a big difference.
Posted By: Davide Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/19/18 02:23 PM
Congrats! That sounds really positive.
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/19/18 02:25 PM
Way to go S85- Man you are headed in the right direction. My prayers are with you and your family. Blessings!!Stay well.
Posted By: NicoleR Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/19/18 03:53 PM
Steve, you and your wife sound like you're doing well. Things sound stable. I'm sorry though to hear about the tragedy on her side. I'm glad you and your wife still have each other for support.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/20/18 08:55 AM
Thanks everyone. Anyone here watch Blackish? Last few episodes the parents have been having marital problems and end up separated. In the season finale (just watched on DVR) the wife's father dies and they reconcile. Very interesting timing on that storyline considering this past week with our family tragedy.

Been doing the assigned reading for MC. Very eye opening and has been resonating with my upbringing and the emotional baggage that has caused me to carry into my marriage.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/20/18 10:59 PM
Steve85, I'm both excited and cautious for you brother. The one true thing you can say is that things are changing.

Funny you should say this stuff about the coincidence with Blackish. The one thing W and I are sharing on nearly a nightly bases is for some reason we are working our way back through The Sopranos. Good or bad it's something we are doing together and W seems to look forward. Nearly 86 hours.

Anyway, we just watched where Tony and Carmela separated and have just now recon. The S went on for several episodes. Somewhat realistic changes in emotions and behavior etc.
It was interesting timing here at this home as well.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/23/18 11:06 PM
Any updates, brother?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 02:44 AM
Nothing really to report. We continue to improve. I am happy to report that while things are returning to "normal" that includes a lot of 180s from me. I am present, with the family, and we eat together, and watch TV together. Wife and I are really stressed over daughter's sitch still, but we discuss it regularly. We talking about instituting a family Bible study night as well as a family game night. Been hectic these last few weeks, seems like we've been on the go a lot with various events and activities, but we still plan on doing this.

Wife is taking more interest in household chores. One of my 180s was to not harp on her or nag her about things that need to be done and she has really responded well to that 180. I've been consistent in this and whenever there is something not done I either leave it, or if it is really affecting my OCD then I just go ahead and do it.

We are about to sit our D down and discuss that we've installed spy software on her phone and give it back to her. We'll see how that goes. I still struggle with the entitlement mentality she has. We have been financially blessed and I fear she is spoiled because of that.

MC is every two weeks. The sessions continue to be productive, and W is engaged in both the sessions and the homework/reading that is assigned. Only real thing she has been lagging on is making a psychiatric evaluation. She's been on the ADs for going on 10 years now and the C thinks she really needs to get evaluated to see if the meds are correct, and to see if she can get off of them with therapy.

Other than that we are just being a team again on things, talking more than we have in years, and are just much more connected and in tune with one another. I continue to work on self-differentiation, which after doing all of the reading I've done I feel is 100% necessary to have a healthy MR.

So that is it. No news is good news.
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 02:50 AM
Steve, so proud of you. Looks like there is light at the end of the tunnel. You have been instrumental in helping me so far in my journey- Thank you!!! Stay well!!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 03:31 AM
Happy for you, Steve. Hope things keep moving in the right direction...
Posted By: Jim1234 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 04:20 AM
I wouldn't say that's "no news", but great news. I'm really happy you have done some hard work to repair your marriage, and that she's responded to it. Keep it up!
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 01:08 PM
I understand DB process is all about making us better and looking past the hurt of our failing/failed MR. If there is no reconciliation the stories and people involved are still a success for making the best of the worst times handed to them, but what all of us need to read more often to lift our spirits is success stories with reconciliation. The mix of the two keeps the rest of us motivated. Steve, I am so happy to see you on the path of reconciliation, I know it is still too early but reading your updates makes me feel you are on the right track and I really hope you are able to save the M. Kudos to you for having the strength to do all it takes.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/24/18 11:38 PM
Glad to hear things are progressing. I hope that others see that you are moving along because you jumped on the bandwagon early. We can force these changes but Detaching and vigilance can speed up the process. IMO

Self-differentiation is an expanded concept of GAL and a very important ingredient for most any close relationship.

Congrats on your signs of progress.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/25/18 12:46 AM
Thanks everyone. As I have said there is no two sitches exactly alike, and I've documented my sitch pretty well in my threads. And while I made a lot of mistakes, when I did things well the response was almost immediate. My W proved to me the pursuit/distance dynamic that is so well documented. The minute I would back off and move away she'd come forward full speed. But the minute I took a step toward her, she would put on the brakes and go the other direction.

Another thing that I learned, at least in my sitch, is stating clearly and unemotionally what you were open to can make a big difference. If you remember, my non-sexual wife had suddenly become very sexual. She didn't see that as a possibility with me at first. But as I GAL, 180'd, was the best that I could be, that slowly changed in her mind. And my being clear that I was always open to that eventually made her comfortable enough to be open to it herself. Note, this was not pressure. I did not ask her for sex, or just try to initiate. I made it clear to her that I would be happy to fulfill that role for her. She eventually took me up on it.

I appreciate the support. I am still open to 2x4s, and perspectives to keep in mind. And a big thank you to everyone of you that read, responded or both!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/28/18 07:43 AM
Memorial Update:

So my wife continues to show signs of being back to her old self!

My daughter went to an amusement park today with a friend, so I took the opportunity to initiate, and it was wonderful. She was into it, and we really enjoyed it. Took her out for lunch afterward, and on the way we passed an elementary school. She said to me in a whispering voice: "Thank you." I looked over and she had tears in her eyes. I said "for what?" She said: "For letting me stay home with her (meaning our daughter) as she grew up. I am so grateful that as fast as it went by I had the opportunity to be home with her and be at her school anytime necessary."

I validated her feelings, and said I was grateful we were blessed enough to make that happen.

If you had told me in January that a day like today could happen I would have told you there was no way in the world!
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/28/18 09:11 AM
Steve- amazing what this journey has done for you and your R. I am truly happy for you. Thank you for always giving me your wisdom and support. Blessings!
Posted By: bhappy2 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/28/18 09:51 AM
Great update, glad to hear. This is why we wait and stand.
Posted By: RR17 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 05/28/18 10:10 AM
Steve just read your last post. That's great. So happy for you.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 12:53 AM
Another quick update. Gave my W a hug goodbye after a great morning of interacting getting ready for work. Hugged her for about 5 seconds and went to pull away. She wouldn't let me, and kept the hug going for several seconds more.

To go from not even wanting to hug me a few months ago to this amazes me. For posters that are just now in their sitches, and don't have much hope, just put the work in. It took several weeks of my changes before my W believed them. Even now she will test the changes to see if I have really changed. CONSISTENCY is the key. When you 180 NEVER 180 back the other way again. One mistake can destroy weeks of hard week, so strive to be diligent in 180ing.
Posted By: Davide Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 01:00 AM
Congratulations. I am almost tearing up thinking about that hug. I cant imagine a better feeling in the world.

You deserve it.
Posted By: doodler Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 01:09 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
Gave my W a hug goodbye after a great morning of interacting getting ready for work. Hugged her for about 5 seconds and went to pull away. She wouldn't let me, and kept the hug going for several seconds more.


Steve85,

It sounds like you need to pack her sh*t and toss her out on her @ss. Don't forget to change the locks.

wink
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 01:14 AM
LOL doodler you are hard core!
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 03:30 AM
Steve85- Man reading that today put a smile on my face and gave me more hope. Thanks for sharing the good news! Keep on!!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 05:17 AM
Thanks Davide and LW. This is why you should never give up hope. There were so many times in Jan and Feb I was ready to throw in the towel. But the sandi rule "Never give up!" was always in my frontal cortex!
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 06:27 AM
Oh Steve what most of us wouldnt do to be in that place!! So happy for you and wishing you better R outcomes everyday
Posted By: Jim1234 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/05/18 06:51 AM
Aswsome!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/10/18 04:03 PM
Glad you're still making progress. What I wouldn't give to be in your shoes!!!...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/11/18 12:35 AM
mtb, thanks, and I know you would. But as AS and others say that success isn't always R. Sometimes success is being able to move on with dignity.

There was a lot of things in play, set up over the last 2 decades, that led to my R. I was lucky as not all of those things were in my control. I'll give you one example, my W can count on half of one hand the number of times she has drank alcohol. She has an alcohol intolerance (she refers to it as an allergy). Imagine how different your sitch would be if that was the case with your W.

So I am very fortunate for many things in my sitch that helped that others may not have the good fortune of having in theirs.

But also being able to finally be okay moving on even in the face of D was really what turned things around. That is why I am such an advocate for self differentiation (aka detachment). It is an imperative, and it something I see you getting better and better each step of the way. So keep up the good work. You will be setup well for a new MR in the future, whether that is with your W or someone else.
Posted By: Vapo Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/11/18 12:46 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
mtb, thanks, and I know you would. But as AS and others say that success isn't always R. Sometimes success is being able to move on with dignity.


Nope. Success in always to ve able to move forward with dignity and sometimes (albeit rare) is also a restored relationship.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/11/18 12:48 AM
Originally Posted By: Vapo
Originally Posted By: Steve85
mtb, thanks, and I know you would. But as AS and others say that success isn't always R. Sometimes success is being able to move on with dignity.


Nope. Success in always to ve able to move forward with dignity and sometimes (albeit rare) is also a restored relationship.


TY, that was what I meant but failed to word properly!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/11/18 02:01 AM
I'd like to address a subject another poster brought up in their thread. i was on mobile at the time and didn't have the time to respond. I can't remember which thread it was in or which poster asked the question. But here was the gist of the question:

Is there anything to WAWs and milestones birthdays. Are women in the 9's of a decade more likely to be walkaway?

My answer? Absolutely. This is not to say that ALL WAWs are facing an impending milestone birthday, but for Ws that are unhappy, and that hit 29, 39, or 49, or 59..... It is a time for self reflection and the idea that "my life is passing me by and I have to do what makes me happy!". Obviously that kind of thinking can happen at any age, but look at the number of newbies that come here with WWs that are 29 or 30. 39 or 40. 49 or 50.

There is also a lot of clinical evidence around this phenomenon. Read a lot of articles right after BD that suggested that 49 is a very dangerous age. Lots of clinicians talking about clients leaving families at 49 for that final "chance at life".

In my sitch, my wife's impending 50th birthday was a major catalyst. She mentioned it all the time. Dreaded it. Then magically after turning 50 she returned to pretty much her old self. Both in good and some bad ways. However, I've been firm on not going back to our previous MR. That is why we are still in MC, and working on things.

But anyway, while it isn't necessarily a requirement, I think the 9s of decade for a W's age definitely could be a catalyst for walkaway and/or wayward syndrome.
Posted By: Vapo Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/11/18 07:51 PM
It is just a catalyst and is in no way responsible for what happened. The reason for it is deeply rooted inside of her, probably planted at a very early age.

So pondering about the 9s in the ages is futile. Sometimes when a person reaches a certain age or they are faced with a traumatic event (death of a parent, death of a friend, an accident,...) something clicks in their head and off they go. A second puberty or what's not.

Make no mistake, we all go through a transition, when we cross that invisible line from youth to middle age. But some cross with just a hiccup, where others face life altering decisions and events. This "confusion" can take anywhere from a couple of years, to forever, depending on the severity of the issues and the willingness to face them. This stage is most recognizable by the vacant stare, the empty eyes, sometimes called shark eyes. It is a dead giveaway of the process.

Some return, some do not, in a lot of cases, the LBS goes forward with his/her life and pursues happiness elsewhere. They say that the mending of a broken relationship when/if the wayward decides to come back is much much harder than the whole breakup. My breakup damn nearly killed me and I have decided that I do not want a do-over. I have healed and am single and I do love my life.

I have a great job, my kids are doing well, I get to travel the world and I thank god every day for my life.
Posted By: hoosjim Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/12/18 03:22 AM
Quote:
There is also a lot of clinical evidence around this phenomenon. Read a lot of articles right after BD that suggested that 49 is a very dangerous age. Lots of clinicians talking about clients leaving families at 49 for that final "chance at life".


^^^^This. Yes. Holy Crap, in spades. The pending "50" thing with my own W was HUGE. She started talking about it almost nonstop, ohhhh... right about the time she started her descent into WW-ness and then her A with the OM. "I'm going to be 50!" She would lament. "You're not even 49, yet" I (the old me) would say.

Never understimate the impact a pending milestone birthday can have on a woman.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/12/18 03:52 AM
Originally Posted By: hoosjim
Quote:
There is also a lot of clinical evidence around this phenomenon. Read a lot of articles right after BD that suggested that 49 is a very dangerous age. Lots of clinicians talking about clients leaving families at 49 for that final "chance at life".


^^^^This. Yes. Holy Crap, in spades. The pending "50" thing with my own W was HUGE. She started talking about it almost nonstop, ohhhh... right about the time she started her descent into WW-ness and then her A with the OM. "I'm going to be 50!" She would lament. "You're not even 49, yet" I (the old me) would say.

Never understimate the impact a pending milestone birthday can have on a woman.


I'd say 50 is just a number, you aren't any different on your 50th bday that you were on the day before it. Yeah, that was the old me. The DBing me validated and moved on.
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/13/18 12:53 PM
Steve, any positive updates from you? I come back to your thread to find some hopeful sitch news to keep my own hopes up and unwavering.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/13/18 01:16 PM
Nothing major to report. Things continue to progress between W and I. She's been affectionate at times which is nice.

D has improved. Pulled her grades up though they are still not where they were last semester. She still has some friends I'd rather she didn't but hopefully that will happen naturally.

Moved MC to tomorrow night this week. I'll report in if anything significant occurs from the session.

Thanks for inquiring, arsh!
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/13/18 10:27 PM
Steve continue to update us - you give us hope and a vision of what is to be - hopefully!. I wish nothing but the best for you. Cheers!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/19/18 02:08 PM
Hey everyone. Just a small update. I took this week off of work to work on the house to get it ready to sell. Wife has been helping and has done a great job on her tasks. Today she had to run and get her new glasses that had come in. She, at my daughter's request, stopped by the grocery store to pick up a few items my daughter had requested.

She picked up those items and then "snacks" to have on hand so we could grab them quickly as we are working on the house. $60 worth.

Now in my past this would have been met with me chastising her for over doing it. Not that we can't afford $60 worth of snacks, but it is a bit excessive. However, I did that 180 months ago, and I was able to maintain it!

I think this was another test. Even though we've been in R for a while now I think she still sometimes questions that I've really changed. Admittedly I was pretty bad at times, especially stressful times. Like trying to prepare a house for the market while getting ready to close on a new one. But stress is not an excuse to act the way I used.

Test. Passed. smile
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/19/18 10:13 PM
Small steps in the beginning turn into BIG steps over time. Great job with the consistency Steve. Good luck with the house.
Posted By: Mach1 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/22/18 04:34 AM
How ya doin buddy ???
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/22/18 06:15 AM
Mach1 we are doing well. I spent all day working on our fence. Previous owner had it put up though the woods. Over time trees have gone down over it. So I spent most of yesterday replacing top rail and broken post caps. And then wiring the fencing back to the new rail.

D14 helped and did a very good job. W made us iced tea and continued working on inside of house.

Very productive day and another task off the list.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 01:21 AM
Got D's report card. Kid pulled up her grades and ended up with all Cs or higher. Every teacher comment was that she was a pleasure to have in class but wasn't working up to get potential. Managed to get a 3.34 cumulative GPA for the year, but was about 3.7 in the first semester.

Had a rough day with her yesterday. She had 4 friends over Friday night for a camp fire. Then yesterday was very entitled and defiant. To the point where W took her phone away again. D started protesting that it wasn't fair and that she deserved her phone and her privacy. The entitlement is not sitting well with W nor me.

House coming along well. Lots done this last week. W is making excellent progress with the packing. We'll be moved with our old house on the market with in two weeks.
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 01:50 AM
Steve - I hope things work out well with your D. At least you and W stand united. Otherwise keep on!! Bleassings.
Posted By: NicoleR Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 02:39 AM
Steve, that's exciting about your new house! A fresh start should be great for your family! I hope your daughter passes this phase and will appreciate someday how you and your wife cared about her and were looking out for her best interests.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 05:32 AM
Glad things are going well for you, Steve. Keep it up!...
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 02:46 PM
I'm happy for you Steve, it sounds like you're having normal marital issues with the kids and house.

Wait to not say anything about the excessive snacking. Maybe you could one up her and buy like $100 worth of chocolate!
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 02:47 PM
Oh, by the way, what does piecing mean?
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/24/18 11:35 PM
Piecing as in piecing a marriage back together.

I am not a fan of the term myself. I am more into "creating a new MR". Piecing and R suggest going back to the way things were.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/25/18 02:23 AM
Vacation Bible School starts tonight. I am codirector again this year (been for about 18 years now).

My W is in charge of the wall where we keep track of the number of guests each child brings. She ordered a huge wall hanging of Noah's ark and we hung it last night after evening worship. She is doing more work today. She is doing an amazing job.

In the past I would have just taken all of that for granted. And wouldn't have complimented her on the hard work. So I just sent her a text telling her how amazing the wall looked and that I was very proud of the effort and preparation she put into it. A definite 180 for me!!

It feels good to be the H I should have been all of these years. My W's love language is words of affirmation, and I need to continue to remember to use them for her EVERY SINGLE DAY!
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/25/18 02:36 AM
Praise be to God! For All His Love and countless Blessings!!
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/25/18 09:25 AM
Sounds like you've made good personal progress Steve. I can't help but say I'm jealous haha!! Is there any other areas of concern you haven't touched on in a while? Just asking to help, not to be critical and mean?
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/25/18 01:20 PM
Good to know things are going well for you Steve, you have mastered the art of DB. It is interesting to see how your W still has a few tests laid out for you to see how you fare but hey you pass with flying colors. I am sure your 180 of recognizing her efforts and appreciating is making you feel better about yourself also. Wish your family all the happiness together.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/25/18 11:58 PM
Thanks everyone. Arsh I am not sure I managed the art of DB. I made a lot of mistakes. If you read my threads you'll see that.

The one thing that I did the best was the 180s. Part of that was that I was not happy with who I had become. I honestly believe that it was God's providence that all this occurred to wake me out of my sleepwalking. When my wife first started to soften about 6 weeks after BD it was because I was being so consistent with my 180s. As I pointed out the other day, I have to remain vigilant with them. I have a lot in my past that causes me to be overly careful with spending, and things like that.

In fact, I almost slipped last night! She had gone to the store to get some more things for VBS, and she also spent on some other things that I feel were probably unnecessary. But again, it isn't as if we are going to go into the poor house because she bought this stuff. So I have to remember that what is most important is that she too can buy things and I have to just let it go!

Anyway, this is how to have a harmonious relationship. To let her, within reasonable (by reality standards not by my standards) amounts, spend money and not be so critical of every penny that is outlaid.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 12:41 AM
Another update.

Due to VBS this week, and returning to work, and trying to get the house ready to sell, and not sleeping well due to having all of this on my mind, I have been exhausted the last two days.

Last night after VBS, I was dogged tired. W was doing some painting. The kitchen was a mess (I've been doing the majority of the kitchen cleaning recently.)

Normally this would be danger time! A perfect storm. Lots to do. Over tired. Kitchen a wreck. I could feel myself getting anxious and my blood starting to boil. I had fixed the gutters on the house (nothing major, just some caulking and screw tightening) before VBS. But anyway I had almost said something . Then I realized, this is one of my biggest 180s! Either shutup and live with kitchen sink piled up, or shutup and take care of it!

And an amazing thing happened. I emptied the dishwasher of the clean dishes. Then quietly got a snack, and sat down in the recliner (first time all day that I got to just sit and chill!). I was just too exhausted at that point to empty the dishwasher. I heard my W in the kitchen. She had gone in and emptied the sink and loaded the dishwasher! I was so amazed at how by not saying anything, doing my part, she quietly did her part too!

I cannot tell you what a huge thing this is. We haven't operated like an unspoken team like that in years. I am proud of myself for keeping my trap shut (a year ago I would have exploded and been very critical and verbally abusive), but even more proud that my W took the initiative to load the dishwasher!

Amazing day.

Also, the house progressed well too. Too much done yesterday to list, but there is light at the end of this tunnel.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 12:43 AM
Should read I was just to exhausted to reload the dishwasher.
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 05:36 AM
Awesome job Steve! We all wish we were in your position but none the less we all cheer you on. Keep it up!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 06:26 AM
Thanks LW. I have to always remember that problems do not give me the right to mistreat those that I love and love me. Heck, it doesn't give me the right to mistreat those that hate me either! (Christ like!)
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 08:10 AM
Amen to that brother!
Posted By: Maika Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 08:11 AM
Yo Steve! is your tag line still correct? Do you still intend to file for D if she doesn't get her act together? Just curious considering where you're at right now.
Posted By: ovrrnbw Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 01:06 PM
Steve, you are like a model citizen. Thanks for posting still.
Posted By: arsh18 Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/27/18 01:18 PM
It shows a lot of self control to be able to not have the most obvious reaction that is inherent to you Steve, but that is what 180 is all about. The way things are going for you, piecing should be a great success. I hope your MR 2.0 is really great.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/28/18 04:29 AM
Originally Posted By: Maika
Yo Steve! is your tag line still correct? Do you still intend to file for D if she doesn't get her act together? Just curious considering where you're at right now.


Since we are still in the initial stages of piecing and R, yes my tag is still correct. I truly believe that she has to be consistent in her actions for a long time before I can trust that she is back all in or not.

The last time the MC asked her directly, which I think was in late April, if she was leaning toward leaving or staying, she said staying but there was still hesitation and a lack of surety. Something like "I think leaning toward staying. As we continue to connect and keep things fun, I can feel my desire to leave lessening."

Again not a solid endorsement, and even if verbally she said she was all in, then I would need to see her actions consistent with that. I will say that so far her actions have all been consistent with that since early March.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/28/18 04:29 AM
Originally Posted By: ovrrnbw
Steve, you are like a model citizen. Thanks for posting still.


LOL! Thanks, I wish I felt that way, appreciate you saying it.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/28/18 04:29 AM
Originally Posted By: arsh18
It shows a lot of self control to be able to not have the most obvious reaction that is inherent to you Steve, but that is what 180 is all about. The way things are going for you, piecing should be a great success. I hope your MR 2.0 is really great.


Thank you arsh! I love the MR 2.0 moniker! Perfect.
Posted By: neffer Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 06/28/18 04:32 AM
Hi Steve, glad to read things are improving. Keep doing what is working man.

Hoping the best for you
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 07/01/18 11:20 PM
Hey everyone.

So we received the keys for the new house yesterday. W and I walked through it together, talked about things we wanted to do in the future to it, and generally had a great time. D and friend were in the pool the whole time.

Moved first load yesterday. Mostly outside/garage/polebarn stuff, and my daughter's dune buggy. I have wed-fri off to continue moving and working on the current house.

Real estate agent did the walk-through of our current house to get it on the market last night. Still have a few items to shore up but it is coming along.

So nothing really new to report, we continue to piece and R. It is going well. Had a long talk with D on Friday night about her phone and internet usage. That it is a bit excessive. She was defiant at first but seems to have accepted our new boundaries on it.

I may be a bit scarce for the next week or so but then I should be able to catch up on everyone's sitches.
Sounds great Steve, good luck with getting everything moved in and set up!

And time for a new thread wink
Posted By: LoneWlf Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 07/02/18 03:35 AM
Steve great6 that things are moving forward with the house and your R- Keep it up!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Limbo / Piecing? Daughter struggling. - 07/02/18 03:56 AM
New thread: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2798989&#Post2798989
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