Uhg...All the What If's. The "if I hads".
I have court in 2 weeks to meet about the case regarding the bologna R.O. that i have on me.
This upcoming hearing might be the first time i see my WW in person since Jan 24th.
The anxiety is mounting.
This hearing may see the TRO lifted (i actually dont have high hopes here, but it COULD happen)
this would be a huge shift in the recent dynamic of the whole situation.
I have not had a chance to gauge her mental state, where shes at with the A, or MR (if thats even remotely possible at this point), how things have been at her home with our son. Whether or not OM is still in the picture and if so to what degree.
I both hate and love her, i miss her and want nothing to do with her. She hurt me so bad, but made me so happy.
the duality of all of this is tearing me apart.
I want to yell and tell her all of the 1000 things she has done to hurt me, destroy my trust in others, rip our family apart and put her needs (or desires) in front of the needs of our son.
Im so pissed i didnt find this resource back in Oct.
I hate that I caved to her desires and filed D. I NEVER wanted to.
i just hope and pray the judge accepts my motion to place it on hold, at least until this mess of a domestic case is resolved.
I hate that it makes me look like an abuser. I AM NOT.
I never did anything to hurt her.
Venting over.
Gonna go try and decompress on my lunch break.
Musical therapy time.
OK, you are doing a lot of backwards looking here. Past is gone, can't change it. Just concentrate on the future. You have had the gift of time and honoring this TRO will be seen as a huge success by the court. I guarantee if you had violated it that it would get extended. By not violating it you've given it a chance to be revoked.
Regardless though you can only control you so continue to do that in the here and now, day by day. Be the best OK you can possibly be!
I just live in fear that the TRO will be lifted and she will continue to just ghost me. I know I'm not much more well equipped to deal with her with the DB techniques, but i may have FUBAR'ed this whole situation before ever finding DB stuff.
The fear of the unknown is always the strongest fear.
The remorselessness that she has seemingly thrown away our entire life with is just mind boggling.
Steve, i feel like i am not looking back as much as i am very VERY much fretting over how things will happend in the future.
We will have to co parent no matter what, and i just have NO $*%&ING CLUE how shes going to act, treat me, expect or say when we can talk.
She has hidden behind the RO for so long i dont know if i will even recognize the woman i talk to when its gone.
I feel like my wife is dead. Whoever carrys hear name and wears her face these days......just isnt the amazing soul i fell head over heels for.
I miss my happy family so much. i miss waking up on sundays and having us all pile in bed and laugh. So much.
it breaks my heart to a million shards to think she isnt missing that, that she isnt hurting for our boy.
she may be, thats the problem.
I HAVE NO IDEA.
Ok, re-read that last post of mine.
Definitely looking back, i see what you mean.
The feeling that the injustice of this all will never be resolved, acknowledged or apologized for is REALLY hard to stomach.
How could you hurt someone you vowed to love forever, so SOON after speaking that vow.
Married Sept 2016 - Affair began April 2017.
Like, what the actual F**K?
But like you said, cant change the past. I wish i could stop dwelling on it. Ive been waiting 7 months for my Brain to SHUT UP about all this hahaha.
Positives:
The "waves" are less frequent and lesser duration as time goes by.
I know my value. I am a good man husband and father. If she never sees that again, someone else will. Her loss.
Im loving all the activities i have been enjoying that were put off in the past. Cant wait to start climbing again (if the weather ever cooperates!).
(Reframe if you read this, do you climb inside or outside? both?
Im currently at like 5.9 outside on a good day, i am SO OFF MY GAME!)
Looking forward to hiking.
Last but not least AT ALL; my son is now 3.5, he is really starting to become his own person and i cant wait to share all my hobbies and activities with him.
Seeing how hard this has been on him has been the worst.
She must be seeing it when she has him.
Im sure thats my fault too. lol.
trying to stay positive.
The next 2 weeks will be long and hard.
Pray for just results for me people!
The key is that you are missing it. Don't focus on her. As long as you do that you know you still have work to do in order to detach.
So be prepared in two weeks. Read all of Cadet's links again. Read DB or DR again. Be ready to DB the snot out of her in 2 weeks no matter what she says or does.
I just live in fear that the TRO will be lifted and she will continue to just ghost me. I know I'm not much more well equipped to deal with her with the DB techniques, but i may have FUBAR'ed this whole situation before ever finding DB stuff.
Orange, YOU didn't create this sitch, SHE did. Going back to your first post, the two of you got married and FOUR MONTHS LATER she changed her online status to single and started trolling for men. Given that the two of you were barely married, it is highly unlikely that this is due to any spousal neglect or issues on your part as that usually takes many years to take root. I think in your case you're just unlucky enough to have paired up with someone that can't commit and settle down.
We will have to co parent no matter what, and i just have NO $*%&ING CLUE how shes going to act, treat me, expect or say when we can talk.
She has hidden behind the RO for so long i dont know if i will even recognize the woman i talk to when its gone.
I'm not big on quoting the Bible but there is a lot of wisdom in it and this passage in particular:
"So don't worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will bring its own worries. Today's trouble is enough for today."
Whenever I start to worry about something down the road then I stop and take a deep breath and ask myself if it's worth the energy. Is my worry accomplishing anything? Is worrying about it in advance going to change the outcome? No? OK then I need to worry about things I DO have control over, like paying that bill or getting my deadline done or painting the front door or whatever. But if you want to give that some energy, then focus on YOU. Imagine her worst possible reaction, and visualize how YOU will react to that. Conduct yourself with dignity and respect and no matter how SHE acts, YOU will be the rock.
I miss my happy family so much. i miss waking up on sundays and having us all pile in bed and laugh. So much.
it breaks my heart to a million shards to think she isnt missing that, that she isnt hurting for our boy.
she may be, thats the problem.
I HAVE NO IDEA.
You are very young. I was older than you when I had my first kid. You will have these moments again. So many people here are so lost in pain and despair and misery that they are incapable of seeing their lives as ever being positive again. Here's the problem, a WAS doesn't want to return to a sad, depressed, despondent LBS. But if the LBS is happy, independent, strong, attractive, then the WAS may start looking back. One of the fastest ways to get there is to focus not on what you are right now, but what you will be in 6 months or a year or whatever. Picture those moments in bed with someone you love, because it WILL HAPPEN. I don't mean there's a 10% change or 50 or 80, there is a 100% chance, it is a GIVEN. I don't know if it's with this woman or another one, but it will be someone you love and who loves you. So think about that, and let it put a smile on your face. Each day is another step towards that goal.
Steve,
Firstly. You are the man. i love the way you word things.
Second, i am actually printing Sandi's Rules, as well as the rest of the key resources. I plan on pouring over them tonight and writing notes specific to my sitch so i can refer back to them when i am feeling weak.
Still waiting on my copy of the book.
Sandi,
If you see this.
Can you explain some of the things that made you start to see through the fog?
I have no expectations of this happening with my WW, but where We MAY be able to communicate again coming up soon i want to be as prepared to identify her behaviors as i can be.
I know seeing logically through the smokescreen of emotions will be a huge challenge for me after so long out of communication.
I know she will have the power overcome my resolve if she chooses her words and actions right.
are there Any indicators you can think of i should look for that she is drifting back? Or further away? that A is ending, or getting more serious?
If she is feeling remorse? or scorn?
What are some tell tale signs i should look for?
Red flags and / or Green ones?
just trying to be as prepared as i can.
the next 2 months are gonna be tough. I can do it.
Well, things had been slowly showing up in the OM that made me question him. I had tried to pass it off as nothing, but it still bothered me to some degree. But getting busted by my grown D, and knowing I would not be able to carry through with my plans.........which was to play innocent and paint my H to look like the bad guy.......was the real splash of reality I needed. It didn't take as much for me, like I hear and read about other WW's. But losing my family's high respect for me was enough! Their respect was the most important thing in my life. We had always lived by a strict code of conduct, so to say I was acting out of character, is putting it mildly.
I would guess that your W will reach out to you.......and until then, don't make a step toward her. She may call or contact you through email/texting to test the waters just a little......to see how you respond to her contacting you. Don't expect her to get off into everything all at once. She may ask how you've been, and some small talk.....and finally ask if you ever think of getting back together or how'd you feel if she came by sometime. She may say she thought about meeting you for the child swap. Just be calm and polite and do NOT press her. She'll have to do this at her speed. If she is sincere and really wants to go back to you, she may act a little nervous or hesitant with her words.
If she is remorseful, then I believe you will see a humility in her spirit. She will be sad and probably depressed. She may lead by saying things like, "You probably hate me", or "You'll never be able to forgive me". Even for an outgoing personality type, it was difficult for me to swallow my pride and humbly ask my H for his forgiveness. I didn't do it right away, but I never left the home either.
Here's the thing. If she starts making little hints.......or leads with something like I gave as an example, don't jump in there and take over the conversation. Don't put words into her mouth. Let her struggle to find the words. They need to be her words, and not yours. It is important that you wait for her to say what needs to be said. Understand? IMHO, it's part of the reconciliation healing process. I've seen some H's so eager to reconcile, they would not give the WW time to complete what she needs to do......and then there would trouble later. Allow her the opportunity to be humble and worried if you'll take her back. Know what I mean? And, if you are angry and hurt, then tell her you need time and that you might consider MC if she'll go.
I've seen so many LBS's think they would just die if they didn't get their WS back again........and they didn't go through the stages they need to process. So, when they finally did reconcile, then they would become the walk away spouse, b/c of delayed reactions for how their wayward spouse treated them. In other words, they put all their focus on just getting the WS back, instead of doing what they read us tell them. I tell LBH's to make the wayward W "work" to get him back. If he takes her back too easily, she'll likely put him through it again. So, don't get in a hurry.
If she shows the slightest bit of blaming you for her actions, haughtiness, anger, resentment, etc., then I don't think she's remorseful. Don't even think of letting her come back until she works through those issues.
It's really hard to say about your W. Artista may be more helpful to you than I am. She had some false start ups with her H, and they were physically S.
Sandi,
That was gold thanks so much. At least i have SOME semblance of a game plan for potential responses.
Artista, if you want to add your $0.02 i would deeply appreciate it.
Today has been a good day thus far, despite some BS with WW missing a payment at Daycare that i had to play damage control over, but i think it was an honest mistake.
I look forward to seeing what you had to say Newly
How could you hurt someone you vowed to love forever, so SOON after speaking that vow.
Married Sept 2016 - Affair began April 2017.
Like, what the actual F**K?
The answer to this question is at the core of your situation. I think you know the answer.
Gump,
Normally i would agree with you.
I am trying to give the benefit of doubt.
We had a lot happen very quickly.
We had a child, and she was a stay at home mom for 2 years.
We got married fairly quickly and im sure that was an adjustment and i feel like she may have felt a but trapped when the reality of how quickly our life together went once things settled in.
She started a new job right when she started going cold on me, its in a very social setting. I feel like she got cold feet after the fact. May have felt like she sped into motherhood / marriage and totally gave up on a social life.
This does not excuse her actions or what she did to hurt and destroy our family.
However, i am fairly confident the reality of what she has done is beginning to sink in, ive seen enough to give me a good indicator this is where she is at despite not having been able to talk to her.
I owe it to my family, the vows i spoke and myself to be patient and give the benefit of the doubt and see how things shake out when the dust settles.
If she continues to be cold and mean, then i'm gone. not looking back.
I have been using this time and space for me and my son, i know I've done some 180's and am a better man than i was. If she doesn't see this and value it, too bad for her.
I appreciate your candor, and its a good reminder to keep by mitts up.
I will take the high road and wait, watch and listen.
If and when it becomes clear its time to truly pull the trigger on D, then i will do so. Regretfully perhaps, but I will make the hard calls when i know they need to be made.
thank you Gump.
Update:
Had some 3rd party communication with W through our daycare because our son has been acting out and there was a missed payment from back in 2017.
It seems like she isnt vindictive anymore. Although i didnt actually speak or communicate with her, the messeages i got from her mom and our daycare teachers seemed like she was willing to pick up the slack on her end of parenting and jumped at fixing the missed payment that was her fault.
I fully expected her to tell me (through her mom) it was my fault and i needed to pay.
im honestly a bit shocked.
Wondering if things will be warmer than expected when RO goes away.
Not dwelling on it though. I have a card tourney tonight i am far more concerned with right now.
is it 5:30 yet?
TGIF DB'ers!
Go have fun and GAL!!
I cant help but notice the vast majority of people posting here are still living with their WS.
Any specific advice for people that are separated and/or currently not in communication with their WS.
I feel like my sitch has already gone to far to fix. Losing hope. Feel like its FUBAR for sure.
I cant say how much i regret filing D, even though i never wanted to. I feel coerced into it by WW (when we were actually still talking) and family and friends.
I still want to try and see how DB works but how can I if I am separated and not in communication?
I feel like each day she forgets me more.
Feeling hopeless right now.
Hang in there man. you have no idea what's in her head. Plus you have a child so she'll never be able to fully "forget" you.
Steve.
You are right as usual.
I think I've been getting it confused in my head between the fact that we legally can't speak right now versus whether or not she actually wants to speak with me right now. as far as the fact that we have to co-parent for the rest of our adult lives I kind of view that as a double edged sword. well I will always be in her thoughts and life I'm also wondering if I just have 15 years of miserable headaches ahead of me
Since you have no direct communication with your W, you are relying on your assumptions to a great degree. I can only try to imagine how maddening it must be for you, but until you hear directly or indirectly for your W.........it is mostly your feelings speaking.
She has gone dark on you, and there is nothing you can do about it. You can wait it out and wait for her to make the first move, or you can move on. Doing some action to bring her out of her darkness is not really benefiticial. You can express your frustrations on the board, if it helps keep you sane. You can work on yourself if there are areas that need improvement. You can learn from mistakes. But as far as doing "something" about your W........I know of nothing more. Don't discount the value of focusing on your personal growth during this time. It is the greatest thing you can do for yourself and your loved ones.
Btw, if you have tried to talk to your MIL during child swap, I suggest you stop. Just be polite and ask no questions about your W.
Sandi,
I dont ask about W with MIL at swaps.
I just discuss our son, say "Have a great day" and thats about it.
thanks for the support. I do use the forum as a way to come here and vent so i dont send some errant text to W.
As far as she knows im happy and doing my own thing.
But, yes. It is quite maddening. I have a rough time mentally compartmentalizing.
I get very frustrated when i pick up my son and he talks about spending time with W and OM.
OM shouldnt be a part of y sons life, not yet anyway, and he has been for almost a year its effecting my sons views of parenting, family and honesty. I hate it.
Poor guy. Is confused and uprooted. 😞
My adult son went through that experience, too. All his kids could talk about was OM. I told him that OM had to win their acceptance. He would buy things, take them places, and give lots of attention to the kids. I told my son that their daddy did not have to win them over, and not to worry b/c it wouldn't last. Sure enough, it didn't. But I saw the raw pain in my child, and it was such a helpless experience as a mom. He felt as if he was being replaced in their lives.
Orange, no man will ever replace you in the heart of your son. It's just natural for a kid to talk about something new, but it will wear off. Try not to let it eat you up, and let's pray the OM is good to him whenever he's around your child.
((hugs))
Thanks Sandi.
W and OM have been taking him to do all sorts of fun stuff that i cant afford to do right now. Money has been hard since she left and i had to leave our apartment.
RO MIGHT get lifted in a week and a half but if it does im not going to reach out.
OM is trying to "buy" your son's affection and score points with your W. Whereas, Daddy can do simple things with S3 and the boy is just as happy, if not more so.
My father had developed health problems by the time his youngest grandson was born. The little boy was about 4 when my dad passed away, and today he is a grown man. His fondest memories of being with his grandfather was them in the back yard and Dad showing him how to use a little rod&reel and pretending they were fishing. It was their special time together. I get choked up when I think what a simple little thing can stick with a child for the rest of his life.
I know everyone says that ALL relationships with OP never work out, what is it that is the most common reason for that type of Affair relationship To break down and fall apart?
I know everyone says that ALL relationships with OP never work out, what is it that is the most common reason for that type of Affair relationship To break down and fall apart?
I believe it is usually the unhealthy nature of how the A started. Things that are planted in bad soil rarely grow healthily. I'd have to think that if it did last to marriage that you would always wonder if they other person would do the same thing to you that they did to their previous spouse.
Thanks Steve,
Time will tell I guess. I know ill get no answers or indications until after the RO goes away.
She has still been very much hidden away compared to her usual social media presence / social life. I cant imagine the public blow back of what she did hasn't had some ill effects on her daily life. Our social circles were pretty well meshed, the only people she really has now are the new friends she made at her new job that she vilified me to.
I had an awesome weekend with my friends and my son, so today is good.
Update / Advice?:
As i have had to do all of my child swaps and whatnot through my mother in law, communications is a pain.
I just asked my mother in law to inquire about the denim jacket my son has that used to be long to my deceased brother when he was a toddler. My other brother and I both wore this coat as children, but it is mostly important because it was originally my dead brothers. Big sentimental value.
I KNOW AS A FACT that W has this jacket, as OM posted a photo of my son wearing it like 2 weeks ago.
I asked my MIL to let my wife know I'd like it back as id like to get photos of him in it for my mom before it doesnt fit him.
MIL's Response: "She said she thought you had it, she will look for it and send it over if she finds it"
Here's the rub: W doesn't know I can see things OM posts on IG, as OM has me blocked. I have a friend of a friend that sends stuff over that's relevant if OM Posts it (Note: I DID NOT ASK for this to occur, chalk it up to good intentioned friends trying to do right by me i guess)
So do I,
A.) Pretend i dont know about the photo that got posted of him wearing the coat in question and just hope she returns it?
B.) Politely tell MIL i know as a fact W has the coat and dont say specifically why, and that I dont appreciate being lied to?
C.) Send screenshot of the photo in question, thereby proving 100% that W has the coat and i know that she does, thereby blowing my cover with OM's IG page? (btw she lies to her mom a lot so MIL probably genuinely believes what she said to me about W looking for it)
B) but leave out the part about being lied to. Remember, you catch more flies with sugar............
If you want to see the jacket again be as nice as punch.
Ok thanks. I just replied thusly
"OK thanks, I know she should definitely have it as i already looked through my stuff to be sure and i remember seeing her pack it with her stuff when she was moving her stuff out of our old apartment"
If they continue to tell me she doesn't have it I will present the photo if need be, but for now I will take the high road.
I'm just trying to get my ducks in a row for when communication is available again.
Almost like a Sales rebuttal sheet lol.
If she is hostile / argumentative?
If she is cold / stonewalling?
If she pretends like nothing happened?
if she is pleasant or even warm?
If she is remorseful / apologetic (not holding my breath)
I just don't see how she will try to act normal, last time we talked she still denied being in a R with OM but we both knew it was true at the time she said it.
Will she continue to deny or admit what has been happening that she knows we're both aware of.
All the what if's...as the Court Date draws closer its harder and harder not to dwell.
Does anyone know of any threads on here of a situation like mine with the WW had taken off and there was no option for communication, and OM was involved, WW was moved out?
She left all of our wedding decorations and her dress in the storage unit when she cleared out her stuff back in March, which strikes me a very odd for a woman to do. Leave her first wedding dress to be thrown away?!? but i don't know if she did that out of personal spite or because she was with OM when she was cleaning out the storage unit.
OM is trying to "buy" your son's affection and score points with your W. Whereas, Daddy can do simple things with S3 and the boy is just as happy, if not more so.
My father had developed health problems by the time his youngest grandson was born. The little boy was about 4 when my dad passed away, and today he is a grown man. His fondest memories of being with his grandfather was them in the back yard and Dad showing him how to use a little rod&reel and pretending they were fishing. It was their special time together. I get choked up when I think what a simple little thing can stick with a child for the rest of his life.
Sandi,
Does the WW typically eventually see thorough this "hes trying to buy my love and my sons love" thing?
Also I know my WW, and if i had to guess im willing to bet at the beginning of things with OM she probably told him she was sooooo in love with him and he was "the one" to save her from what i would assume she told him that i was an awful husband and father. She also told her new co workers / friends that I had already filed D way back like a year ago, which was a total lie.
How do you backtrack from that as the WW?
How do you maintain friendships of people she lied to about me WHEN things with OM fizzle out and shes left with the true exposure of her lies, not only to my family and friends, but when all the lies she told her new social group about me and how our situation developed come out of the woodworks?
How does the WW manage the blowback of the re-written history coming to the light of truth?
AS,
Just had a chance to fully read and digest this.
Thank you. this type of encouragement is what helps so much when things get dark.
I dwell. Dwelling is an issue i have. Compounded by the total lack of closure, contact or info.
your bible quote actually reminded me of a quote my WW's EX told me when i contacted him to try and understand WTF she was going through in her head, "You cant trip on whats behind you"
and i try to live that.
I am going to literally PRINT what you said in response to me "living in ear of the TRO is lifted and she continues to ghost me"
and put it somewhere i can see it daily. probably in my cubicle at work, where i do most of my negative dwelling lol.
Does the WW typically eventually see thorough this "hes trying to buy my love and my sons love" thing?
IDK. In my son's case, the WW was just as bad at bribing the kids as the OM was.
Also I know my WW, and if i had to guess im willing to bet at the beginning of things with OM she probably told him she was sooooo in love with him and he was "the one" to save her from what i would assume she told him that i was an awful husband and father. She also told her new co workers / friends that I had already filed D way back like a year ago, which was a total lie.
How do you backtrack from that as the WW?
How do you maintain friendships of people she lied to about me WHEN things with OM fizzle out and shes left with the true exposure of her lies, not only to my family and friends, but when all the lies she told her new social group about me and how our situation developed come out of the woodworks?
How does the WW manage the blowback of the re-written history coming to the light of truth?
Some people have been lying their entire lives. Those are the ones who will wiggle around things and act as if it was just some misunderstanding........or no big deal......whatever. While others will avoid the their former friends and in-laws. Sometimes they cause too much damage and they can't face people who know the truth. These are the ones who move away, or make sure they don't end up attending the same event as their old pals. Having just one person as a friend, can give people courage to stand against a crowd.
Does the WW typically eventually see thorough this "hes trying to buy my love and my sons love" thing?
IDK. In my son's case, the WW was just as bad at bribing the kids as the OM was.
Also I know my WW, and if i had to guess im willing to bet at the beginning of things with OM she probably told him she was sooooo in love with him and he was "the one" to save her from what i would assume she told him that i was an awful husband and father. She also told her new co workers / friends that I had already filed D way back like a year ago, which was a total lie.
How do you backtrack from that as the WW?
How do you maintain friendships of people she lied to about me WHEN things with OM fizzle out and shes left with the true exposure of her lies, not only to my family and friends, but when all the lies she told her new social group about me and how our situation developed come out of the woodworks?
How does the WW manage the blowback of the re-written history coming to the light of truth?
Some people have been lying their entire lives. Those are the ones who will wiggle around things and act as if it was just some misunderstanding........or no big deal......whatever. While others will avoid the their former friends and in-laws. Sometimes they cause too much damage and they can't face people who know the truth. These are the ones who move away, or make sure they don't end up attending the same event as their old pals. Having just one person as a friend, can give people courage to stand against a crowd.
Sandi,
Whats also odd is she seems to be going to only places that her and I had done together with our son in the past or places we had talked about taking him together. Like she is literally living OUR life with OM.
Why? is she vindictive and spiteful or just unable to come up with her own ideas?
i really think she needs to seek professional help for her issues and never will.....
If she is hostile / argumentative?
If she is cold / stonewalling?
If she pretends like nothing happened?
if she is pleasant or even warm?
If she is remorseful / apologetic (not holding my breath)
Are you sure you aren't holding your breath?
I know you are talking out some of your thoughts here b/c you can't get to her. However, this is giving her an awful lot of head space that is a total waste of time and energy. You do know that, right?
Nobody can answer the questions you are asking. You seem to think that as soon as the R.O. is lifted that you and your W is going to be meeting and having a conversation. She may continue to avoid you and hide out longer.
Ler me ask you some you some questions. Why is this all up to her? Why do you want a woman with such low standards.......such as she appears to have? Would you really want her back, knowing she had been sleeping with OM? Have you considered your stipulations to her coming home.......if she decides she wants back? Have you thought about how to prevent this from happening again.......since she does tend to have a track record?
What are you doing to get your mind off the sitch? What do you like to do that is fun? Get a couple of buddies and go hang out and get your mind off how she'll act once you can communicate again. Cause, there no guarantee she'll let you. KWIM?
As i have had to do all of my child swaps and whatnot through my mother in law, communications is a pain.
I just asked my mother in law to inquire about the denim jacket my son has that used to be long to my deceased brother when he was a toddler. My other brother and I both wore this coat as children, but it is mostly important because it was originally my dead brothers. Big sentimental value.
I KNOW AS A FACT that W has this jacket, as OM posted a photo of my son wearing it like 2 weeks ago.
I asked my MIL to let my wife know I'd like it back as id like to get photos of him in it for my mom before it doesnt fit him.
MIL's Response: "She said she thought you had it, she will look for it and send it over if she finds it"
Here's the rub: W doesn't know I can see things OM posts on IG, as OM has me blocked. I have a friend of a friend that sends stuff over that's relevant if OM Posts it (Note: I DID NOT ASK for this to occur, chalk it up to good intentioned friends trying to do right by me i guess)
So do I,
A.) Pretend i dont know about the photo that got posted of him wearing the coat in question and just hope she returns it?
B.) Politely tell MIL i know as a fact W has the coat and dont say specifically why, and that I dont appreciate being lied to?
C.) Send screenshot of the photo in question, thereby proving 100% that W has the coat and i know that she does, thereby blowing my cover with OM's IG page? (btw she lies to her mom a lot so MIL probably genuinely believes what she said to me about W looking for it)
Look, don't do this type of stuff. You are setting yourself up for a fall. It makes you appear unattractive and as if you have an ulterior motive.
Are you sure you aren't holding your breath? - No, im not sure. if im being honest.
I know you are talking out some of your thoughts here b/c you can't get to her. However, this is giving her an awful lot of head space that is a total waste of time and energy. You do know that, right?
Yes, wholeheartedly. I wish i could get her out of my head. The only time i can seem to accomplish this is when I am gaming with my friends. anytime my mind isn't 100% occupied she seeps into my thoughts without fail. I love and miss her. Ive mentioned before compartmentalizing is not my strong suit. People say "time heals", we've been seperated since Oct and NC since January, no changes for me yet.....
Nobody can answer the questions you are asking. You seem to think that as soon as the R.O. is lifted that you and your W is going to be meeting and having a conversation. She may continue to avoid you and hide out longer.
I dont THINK she is going be meeting and having convo's. In fact i highly doubt if that is how things will go. Its just the removal of the RO is the one things definitively preventing any convo's or feelings to be exchanged. I just have no clue what her mood will be, and fear of the unknown is the greatest fear
Ler me ask you some you some questions. Why is this all up to her? Why do you want a woman with such low standards.......such as she appears to have? Would you really want her back, knowing she had been sleeping with OM? Have you considered your stipulations to her coming home.......if she decides she wants back? Have you thought about how to prevent this from happening again.......since she does tend to have a track record?
Why do you want a woman with such low standards? - Until i can identify what caused her to do this, where she was at in her head and whatnot, i have to assume benefit of the doubt. Just my choice to be paitent. I'm simply not ready or willing to write her and my marraige off, not at least until we have some post RO interactions.
Would you really want her back, knowing she had been sleeping with OM?
I feel like A LOT of people on this board are fighting to get their MR fixed, after an OP. So wouldn't that question kind of fly in the face of what most folks here are trying to accomplish?
That being said, it would be a very unique circumstance if that were to happen. Genuine remorse, apology, explanation IN FULL of the entire affair, proof of re-establishing trust (which would take months if not years), willing to go to MC, staying seperated and "Dating", moving slowly back towards MR, amonung other things would all be required for me to even ENTERTAIN the idea of trusting her again.
In reference to things specifically sexually. Yes, im fairly open minded so if trust were there and work was being done on her part, i could EVENTUALLY become intimately comfortable again. Trust and Love come first.
Have you considered your stipulations to her coming home.......if she decides she wants back?
See above response. The main thing for me too is our son. I have seen him in so much pain and turmoil over this. I am very confident that spending time with us both together again would help him out greatly. If we were to be together again, i know he would do better. I cant say the same for WW and I but as far as HE is concerned i know he would be happier. I can elaborate if need be.
I really enjoy answering questions about my stich, i think its better to answer questions by the Vets than to just dump my raw emotions out and hope for responses. Keep it coming!
Have you thought about how to prevent this from happening again.......since she does tend to have a track record?
Again, she would need to follow what would be set forth as boundaries if she wanted to go to MC and work on MR. It would need to be very transparent and she would need to understand that my trust would be a LONG TIME in returning.
As far as a track record, i am her first husband and our son is her only child. Its hard to look at track records when my dynamic with her is a lot different from others in the past, even if her behavior is similar, each situation is different and would cause different emotional responses. Honestly, its hard to say Sandi. Shes a tough one to read. She kept the wool over my eyes quite successfully for the better part of a year.
What are you doing to get your mind off the sitch? What do you like to do that is fun? Get a couple of buddies and go hang out and get your mind off how she'll act once you can communicate again. Cause, there no guarantee she'll let you. KWIM?
Tabletop gaming, hiking, rock climbing.
this is what ive been trying to do, and when i am doing those activities it works. It is when I am stuck in my cubicle at work, or when im driving, or lying in bed at night, when my mind has time to wander. it always wanders to her.
Sandi, Ill be frank. Im still very much in love, probably co dependant. I resolved to spend the rest of my life with this woman.
I did nto make that choice lightly.
I have had SO MANY people advise me to "just write her off" "Move on" "dude, she played you, forget her"
I CANT DO IT. i have tried. Honestly, If i ever will be able to, im certainly not ready yet.
I want this to be fixed, i want her back (only if its real)
Let me be clear that as much as i want all this, i will not compromise to get it.
The affair WASN'T MY FAULT.
I am a good partner, i treated her well. I DID NOT DESERVE THIS.
So it will take COLOSSAL effort and work on her part to fix, should she choose to try, but I told her months ago, if she makes that decision, I will be there the whole time, supporting her, but she needs to see the need to change, seize the motivation to change, and put in the work to make the changes and keep them.
I cant get it out of my head that we are meant to be together and this is just our biggest challenge.
I still believe this cane bring us closer in the end.
I still want my family together.
I DO feel like a sucker some times, but other times im proud to be as devoted to Recon as i am. I feel like lesser husbands would have given up by now.
I truly feel that whether this is from some type of Personality Disorder or she got caught up in Cold Feet / Post Partum / "Feeling Trapped"
whichever of these it is, it feels to me like a mental issue or "temporary insanity" kind of thing.
Either way, i said "In sickness and in health, in good times and in bad"
We live in a very throwaway society these days, but I'm an old soul.
You and I dont share a basis of Faith Sandi, as religion was never part of my life growing up.
But the role of father husband provider is HUGE to me, and i believe in second chances, redemption and turning over new leafs.
This is why i filed a motion to put the D on hold. When i filed before i was running off of pure emotion. NC has allowed me to step back and look at this logically. My logic has told me that i shouldn't make an major decisions while both our emotions are so raw and her limerence with AP is still in full swing.
This way, if she TRULY wants to D, she will have to step to the plate and do it herself, rather than just play the victim, re-write history and let me do all the D legwork while she paints me as the bad man because I had the nerve to divorce HER.
I read all the other posts of peoples WW's re-writing history and saying / doing totally crazy things, despite being otherwise normal women.
this positiviety and benefit of the doubt / supportive attitude & atmosphere is what made me magnetize to the DB forums as opposed to negative spiteful places like Quora.
Here i feel like people actually listen and share Experiences.
I am very immaterial. If it were not for the significant sentimental value of this item i wouldnt bother.
It is the favorite item from childhood of my mothers, that belonged to her first born son, who died at the age of 33.
She never thought she would be a grandparent and had to dig all these old items from the 80's when she found out id be having a child.
She still VERY much struggles with my brothers death, 3.5 years later. (he died 9 days before my son was born too
) and things like this are very important to her.
My son also just happens to be a damn clone of my older brother, so its really tough.
I get that i likely look like the flailing, weakling desperate LBH. Maybe I am, privately. That is the side that WW say up until Jan when RO was put in place.
This is why i am hashing through so many "what if's" and "what if she..." on here. So i have my head on straight and have a solid game plan, with "rehearsed" responses, rebuttals and reactions prepared for when we can talk. So when that happens i can DB correctly, efficiently and confidently.
If that breeds zero results, so be it.
Despite how i type here, in my mock preparations, the first rule i took to heart when i posted here for the first time is still foremost in my mind.
NO EXPECTATIONS.
As far as i am concerned everything is dead and gone. Anything beyond that is a win.
How long do you typically see that Hot/Cold cycle? do you feel like this would also apply during out-of-house separations too? With OM Involved?
Just bringing your question here from reframe's thread so that we can keep continuity on your thread.
I don't think there's a timeline on hot/cold cycle. Yes, it applies to out-of-house separations. My W and I have been separated for almost 10 months and she still goes hot/cold on me. Timeline for that is irrelevant because you figure out how to deal with it - by not giving a $hit and letting it roll off your back. Stop analyzing it. Stop mind-reading. Maybe she's constipated, or maybe she's mad at the neighbor, or maybe she's hangry. Who knows? And more importantly - who cares? I don't mean to say that become callous and mean about this stuff - just become indifferent.
No confirmed OM in my situation, so can't answer that part of your question. But, it doesn't matter - you need to do YOU.
Makia,
Detachment - My Achilles heel.
I am trying my rear off to accomplish this, and its SO HARD.
GAL - Not as much of a challenge.
I have been GALing for some months now and it is a huge help.
I literally MEDITATE on detachment on a daily basis and it isn't helping. I am confident that if her and i were interacting i would be able to keep my cool unlike in the past. I feel like id be in control and handle the situation well.
Its the internal struggle that challenges me, i live in my own head, with the exponentially growing crowd of What If's and other useless speculative crap.
I feel like im going to burn through my own skin with rage.
I tell my boss (who has been hugely understanding of this whole mess) that i need to go "Cool the Lava" when im feeling angry about all this at more, and i go out in the warehouse and do pull ups.
Moral of the story; Everyone preaches "Detach" "become indifferent", "let go" or "forget about her"
Id love to.
Here the $1,000,000,000 question.
HOW?!
I've been literally trying to TRAIN MY BRAIN to leave her out of it.
I admittedly don't MISS her or PINE for her like i had been, and i have a full conscious understanding that what we had was likely false, and is dead and gone. The woman I married doesn't exist.
Its the loss of what i THOUGHT i would have for the rest of my life, the feelings i THOUGHT we shared, that I cant seem to let go of.
So many people have told me "this is a blessing disguise., you are young, soon this wont even matter to you"
i wish i could believe that.
Because of how young we are i feel like i just lost more.
All the t
Hey OrangeK,
Detachment is probably the most difficult thing to master, because it is indirectly in your control and takes time. You can't just summon detachment or meditate your way there.
There are some excellent resources here, and I believe there is a great sticky on detachment. Just read and re-read it.
It is virtually impossible to get to detachment just by trying to grind intellectually. You can't want it to happen - that's like trying to untie a knot by pulling harder. You're making the situation worse. You have to let it go and once the tension falls, you can gently start untying it.
Are you seeing an IC? I'd suggest you do that if you can. That will assist in your detachment journey.
You need to seriously GAL, expand your network, and learn how to do calming awesome things by yourself. What do I do - indoor climbing, working out, listening to music/podcasts, reading, cooking. I find small activities that give me that calm zen space of mind. Find yours and pursue it rigorously - this will add fuel to your detachment journey and the layers will start peeling off.
You can't muscle your way through this. You can't go around your pain. The best and most effective way is through the pain and you'll get to the other side better and unlocking different layers of detachment.
Slow down, give yourself breathing room, and start somewhere. With something. Doesn't have to feel authentic to start. but just start somewhere - if it doesn't feel too good, find something else.
Complete focus on YOU and your self-care. Detachment will come in waves.
Me and that's too funny. I just spent the last hour and a half reading your entire situation and commented on your most recent thread. I've been in a really weird place lately honestly. For the most part I feel like I'm doing the whole get a life thing pretty well. I've gone to the climbing gym myself a few times as that is something that I've had on the back burner for a long time as well as getting into a lot more gaming with my friends which has been a huge help. Unfortunately before my wit's returned to me in my desperate attempts to save our marriage and our apartment I put myself in debt so doing things like going out to the bar or being available to take a girl out on a date has been tough as money has been tight. Most of my time when I'm not working is spent either with my son or gaming right now. However I do plan on getting back two full swing with my involvement in fire rescue. things got a bit chaotic at work because I was bringing my emotions to the office and I've settled that problem and work is going much better now. the only bad habit at work I have to get out of is jumping on here to the forums when I should be busy doing other things. I've recently started looking into getting myself a new apartment as opposed to living with my friend as I know he wants to start to do a lot of Home Remodeling soon and probably won't want my son in the way. I need to get my finances in order before I can do that but it shouldn't take too long and it was kind of weird once I set my mind on getting my own place rather than living with somebody else like my brother and his wife I really like the idea and have definitely decided that that is what's best for me. I need to get my own space again. Unfortunately where I live rentals are few and far between and when you find them they're expensive so finding a two-bedroom that I can afford with just me then my son will be a little bit tough but I'm sure I'll make it work. looking forward to doing some outdoor climbing now that the weather is improving need to get some more of my 4000 Footers under my belt to. I'm sure you can see in my thread that the last few days have been a bit tumultuous for me and I've got to be completely honest with you man your situation and reading it in its entirety is I think the most helpful thing that I've experienced in the last few daysi
my best friend that I've been living with since January has been a huge inspiration as well. I've been trying to let a lot of his good habits rub off on me including dieting exercise and a really positive attitude. I'm going to go downstairs and hit his weight set right now and then take a shower and pick a book to start reading as I haven't touched one in years
I scoured this forum and read stories of many people to get some hope and inspiration, and that the bleeding would not go on forever. I am glad that my sitch was able to help you with that as well. I am by no means out of the woods for myself yet, still working on things, but I know that I am going to be okay without my W. Heck, I am going to more than okay.
Get some easy wins under your belt - dress well, clean up, groom better, and if you can afford to upgrade your wardrobe a little bit, that helps.
GAL doesn't have to cost tons of $$$$. 25yrsmlc always talks about how she GAL'd on pennies and did so many things. It can be done. But, take small measured steps.
Right now your goal to get our own place is an awesome one. Draw up a timeline and see plan on how you're saving for it and when you will start looking actively for a place. Plan it all out and then execute.
Yeah, get our diet and exercise in order. Make yourself only a fool would leave.
Joseph9 has talked about how he's letting his anger go in a slow burn - becoming jacked and hella attractive and inviting ladies in his life that deserve his time. That is what I am going for too - my W is going to regret that she didn't give me a second chance. Use the anger and pain and hurt productively.
Btw, read Joseph9 and Benito's threads. Both way out DB'd me and were my support system too. A lot of gems hidden in their threads. Dig it up.
I have had a huge shift in my outlook dynamic, and i can honestly say you, Joe, Steve and Sandi have been paramount in that dynamic shift for me.
You are all inspirations, I am fully on the GAL, get in the best shape ever and be a damn rock star mindset.
Its almost summer, time to tune the body up, throw on a Fire Dept tee shirt (ladies love this) and hit the beach with my ADORABLE 3 year old.
Ill have to stave the women off with sticks.
I was a good husband and am a good man.
I know my value, im young, attractive, a public servant, intellegent and engaging.
OM is none of those things, but for the first time i can honestly say I DONT CARE ABOUT OM, WHO HE IS OR WHAT HE DOES OR DOESNT OFFER.
As long as he is kind to my son thats all i care about.
Beyond that, WW and OM can kindly go shopping for hats to Sh*t in, as what they do, say or think means less to me than a dusty rodent fart.
the weather is finally nice.
I have a song to raise and rocks and mountains to climb (litterally and figuratively)
I have the steering wheel. Not her. I have my own life to live, which she CHOSE to DISCARD and DESTROY instead of talking things out like a mature adult.
I think ill hit up the local nightlife hot spot this weekend. I havent done that at all since the separation.
OK, nice! I like the attitude. Shows you know your worth and you are no longer allowing your self esteem to be defined by what she says or does.
Keep up the good work. GAL like a madman.
Just a word of caution, be careful with the nightlife. You don't need to go adding another headache to your sitch right now. There will be plenty of time for that later, you don't need to start something new until the current door is fully closed.
Steve,
Good advice, my plan on going out is mostly to spend time with friends, and getting back in the mindset of being able to talk to the fairer sex.
I have no intentions on going out searching for anything.
When the time is right things will fall in to place in that regard. Im not rushing or pushing any advancements in that regard. I have much more to worry about with myself and my son before i worry about getting some action lol.
I will second Steve in terms of the nightlife. But AS had commented this on my sitch a buncha times and it's very true - nothing wrong in a bit of flirtation and chatting up with women. It will boost your confidence and self-esteem.
So, enjoy the nightlife. Enjoy some flirtation and attention. But, I am not of the camp that says you should immediately go out there and sleep with as many people as you want. You're in no place to offer anybody anything and you have a lot to work on right now about yourself. Don't add another layer of complication.
Just to clarify, I hope you won't see my questions as telling you to give up or that the M can't be saved. I was mostly trying to get you to express your thoughts and feelings to those questions. Since your hands are tied, that's about all I know to do is get you to talk it out.
I encourage you to get plenty of physical exercise. Other LBS's swear that it helps them cope better with the emotional ups & downs. Also, they say GAL is a lifesaver.
You said that driving back & forth to work is a difficult time to keep your thoughts off the sitch. Have you considered listening to motivational recordings while driving? Your local library probably has some, if you don't want to purchase any. YouTube has a ton of motivational speakers on all types of subjects.
Something else you might consider is to volunteer help to someone. I'm not talking about an organization (although it's fine), but make a point to observe people around you and if you can see some little way to help them. It may be some elderly person in your neighborhood. It might be a shut-in, or someone at work. Keeping an eye open to see if someone needs a helping hand, might keep your mind off your own sitch to some degree.
OK, remember Sandi's rule #36: It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
Sandi,
Just to clarify, I hope you won't see my questions as telling you to give up or that the M can't be saved. I was mostly trying to get you to express your thoughts and feelings to those questions. Since your hands are tied, that's about all I know to do is get you to talk it out. I appreciate the clarification, I didn't think you were trying to get me to give up hope. I just know that at least somewhat getting to that mindset seems to be key in DB'ing. I Love my wife, despite what many others tell me i should feel (NOT here, but IRL, and I'm getting kind of sick of hearing it from people who don't get what I'm going through, which is why this forum is so important to me)
I will always hold hope that we can maybe someday fix this. Talking it out is so important to me. I think my situation is somewhat unique, where other DB'ers can actively work and guage their progress or lack thereof through interactions with WW, i cannot, so talking my emotions out here is so important. I was left with no closure, no info, and no truth. Then was FORCED to go full NC, with no possibility of doing it any other way.
This mired me in the desperation stage of things far longer than i think i would have otherwise spent in that stage thereby taking away my ability to DB at all, with the exception of GAL'ing, which is all i should be focused on right now anyway. The time will come for my DB to either breed results IRL with my WW, or they wont, and i will have already GAL'ed my way to a much happier place without her, so ill be ready if this is truly the end.I encourage you to get plenty of physical exercise. Other LBS's swear that it helps them cope better with the emotional ups & downs. Also, they say GAL is a lifesaver. It is a lifesaver, and has been very good for my self esteem too. Going at GAL 1000%.
I will strive to be the best Dad, Man, Firefighter, Climber, Swordsman, Blacksmith, Scholar and Lover I can be.
Plus my roommate has convinced me to overcome my fear of motorcycles.
This year I RIDE. 
You said that driving back & forth to work is a difficult time to keep your thoughts off the sitch. Have you considered listening to motivational recordings while driving? Your local library probably has some, if you don't want to purchase any. YouTube has a ton of motivational speakers on all types of subjects.
Great Minds think alike Sandi, i have been listening to a lot of motivational stuff on my commute this weeks and last, and when im not i do Audiobooks.
Im a big nerd and any method to step out of my life and into a fantasy world does me wonders.
Its why playing D&D has been a HUGE help in disconnecting and GAL'ing.
Something else you might consider is to volunteer help to someone. I'm not talking about an organization (although it's fine), but make a point to observe people around you and if you can see some little way to help them. It may be some elderly person in your neighborhood. It might be a shut-in, or someone at work. Keeping an eye open to see if someone needs a helping hand, might keep your mind off your own sitch to some degree.Again, we are on the same track!!
I am a firefighter / EMT and I have been neglecting that aspect of my life since the separation in Oct. This is another aspect of GAL i have resolved to really buckle down on. I always got such a sense of pride and fulfillment from volunteering with my local Fire Dept.
Its part of what helps me know my value. I am respected and appreciated in my community because of this.
Time to saddle back up on the big red truck!! WEEE-WOOO!
I have great faith in the man I aim to be in a years time.
I know his value, and i know his value and changes made will be evident and obvious to all, including WW.
If she doesnt see those changes or chooses to ignore them, her loss, which she would maybe realize after D or if I was with another woman.
But im doing me. I dont need to try and make her jelous or shock her system. If she doesnt 180, she aint worth my time.
I am valuable and worth loving, right now, she isn't, and I'm not going to bend over backwards for her anymore. Not till / if she earns it. I had an epiphany last night, and as humble as he may be about it Makia really helped with that, as did my room mate (Shout out to Tim the Warrior! till Valhalla Brother!)
i have wasted SO MUCH time and mental energy being sad/angry/depressed because i dont know what shes doing or thinking, or what the deal with OM is, even the petty questions, "what did I do wrong" "is he better than me? Kinder? better in bed? wealthier?"
"How could she do this, when she JUST professed to love me for life 6 months prior"
It has finally sunken in.
NONE OF THIS MATTERS.
It wont change her mind, or sway her actions, and for the first time EVER. I legitimately DO NOT WANT to sway her actions / thoughts.
IF they change, i want them to change because she saw a need for them to.
She is the only one that can change her own mind or opinions, and i have finally realized its a total waste of my time and energy to let her occupy all of my head space.
I will keep you all updated as our court date is 1 week, 2 days away. May be the end of the "criminal" case. (such BS)
Once the RO is gone, i imagine i will be reporting on the same type of temp checking and other WW bologna that i often see here.
She is however the mother of my child, i will always be there in that capacity, im not going to cold shoulder her when we speak. I will be cordial, professional and firm in my boundaries but approachable and reliable.
I SHALL BE THE ROCK IN THE TIDE.
Steve,
I've never been a bar guy, im more likely to end up in some coffee house with live music.
I get drunk on intellectual conversation and artistic expression!
I may have a beer or two, but for flavor not inebriation.
I've always been a lightweight and hate hangovers with the passion of 1000 suns. Cant hike well if you sleep till 10am!
Update:
So i politely asked about my brothers jacket that OM had posted a photo of my son wearing, that i wanted back as it is sentimental.
I mentioned wanting the jacket back to my mother in law, she said that it got packed away and should be in with my sons old clothes. I had already checked and it isnt, plus the photo OM Posted with my son clearly wearing it.
I did not bring this part up as she doesn't know I have seen anything posted from OM's page on IG and didn't want to seem like i was keeping an eye on WW/OM or anything.
The blatant lie is really getting under my skin, and for some reason also causing me to miss WW a lot today. Why, I have no idea.
days like this when i feel very much at the mercy of WW (everything seems to go her way....) and the courts.
Anxiety for looming court date is mounting, a week from tomorrow.
I'm far more nervous about being in the same room with WW for the first time in 3 months than I am any BS legal ramifications.
Plus the weather is garbage today and my game night got cancelled.
Hope tomorrow is better
"They can't all be zingers" - Les Clyapool
If she is remorseful, then I believe you will see a humility in her spirit. She will be sad and probably depressed. She may lead by saying things like, "You probably hate me", or "You'll never be able to forgive me". Even for an outgoing personality type, it was difficult for me to swallow my pride and humbly ask my H for his forgiveness. I didn't do it right away, but I never left the home either.
Sandi,
I just re-read this, and a while back at the 2nd MC Meeting (the one where the "incident" occurred resulting in the RO)
She said "I know you think i'm scum"
and i told her i didn't think that and that she was putting words in my mouth.
I now recognize this as projection.
How long was it before you asked you husband for forgiveness, and how long were you thinking about asking him before you did?
I also learned recently she has been under the impression this entire time She could get into trouble for violating the RO too, unless this is just a lie. She never got a copy of it and thought it worked both ways, when it definitely doesn't. Only effects me
(MIL asked about it last time i swapped my son with her)
Ok. today [censored]. I know i shouldn't have looked.
On Facebook - "On this day: Memories"
3 years ago today - WW: "I cant wait to Be Mrs.(mylastname) it looks so weird to write my name like that, cant wait for my love to get home so i can make him dinner while the baby plays in his swing after a long day of fire training for him!! <3<3"
I didnt "like" it or comment on it. But F**K did that sting. my heart is somewhere near my ankles right now.
stay focused, stay focused, stay focused.
P.S.
I cant get the "did she see that today too? did it hurt her to see it?" out of my head....
Yeah. I'd stay off of FB. There are enough ups and downs without doing this kind of thing to yourself.
Steve,
your thoughts on the Jacket situation?
That's a tough one. I guess you can let it lie until after the court date. Hopefully the TRO gets revoked and you can deal with it directly with her instead of through a third party. Likely she is blowing you off because she doesn't have to deal with it, her mom does.
Good, that was exactly my plan. as hard as that is to stomach.for now. its just a jacket, but its the principal of the matter that bothers me.
O - IMO your W is occupying way too much of your head space for a journey that you have been on it looks like for over 4 months. It appears to me that your trying to hang on to anything to make sense of what just happened, anything so you can regain some control.
You have to let go and free fall if you don't your journey will be rough. You have to get out of her wake....don't ride in it....the water is too rough. Take your boat off to the side in calmer waters. It will do you wonders.
If she has no interest in speaking with you then I would make no attempts and move forward with your life. She is also with OM which should further drive this home. Looks like your young, only married for a short while and she found something with this new job of hers. FWIW the same thing happened to my W when she switched jobs. Obviously there is something disconnected with your W for this to occur in the short amount of time you have been together. Like AS said this appears to be more about her than you.
Are you fit? Healthy? Do you look good? What have you done for yourself? What will she see the first time you interact with her since January?
If you don't want a D then don't push the issue. That is a personal choice. It is concerning that she has went to all these lengths to hide her pregnancy and TRO with you not doing anything wrong. All of it just doesn't make sense to me which should hopefully help you realize that this is more about her than you. You should also question whether or not you even want to be with this women after all of the accusations she has made combined with the OM would be too much for me to overcome. Again this is a personal choice.
IMO if you don't want a D don't file or push it forward but you have to move forward with your life, enjoy the time with your son and be the best father you can be. Let your w take her journey, don't check out FB, don't like stuff, don't stew over the jacket, don't sweat the small details, don't send her a letter.....doing nothing is still taking action.
Truthfully being separated is the best thing that has happened to you.
O - IMO your W is occupying way too much of your head space for a journey that you have been on it looks like for over 4 months. It appears to me that your trying to hang on to anything to make sense of what just happened, anything so you can regain some control.
Regain Control, i dont think so. I never really had control, as far as it occupying too much of my head space, agree 100%. trying my best to change that. Some days are better and easier than others. I think i have had a harder time with this due to the abrupt way in which we disconnected and have had no interactions since. No closure does havoc on a mind that is used to seeking and understanding all the answers. I'm the type that is irked if I dont find out who what where and why. Im trying to let that habit go.
You have to let go and free fall if you don't your journey will be rough. You have to get out of her wake....don't ride in it....the water is too rough. Take your boat off to the side in calmer waters. It will do you wonders.
Doing my best to do this, see above.
If she has no interest in speaking with you then I would make no attempts and move forward with your life. She is also with OM which should further drive this home. Looks like your young, only married for a short while and she found something with this new job of hers. FWIW the same thing happened to my W when she switched jobs. Obviously there is something disconnected with your W for this to occur in the short amount of time you have been together. Like AS said this appears to be more about her than you.
I agree its about her. I wasn't doing anything different leading up to the affair than i had done in the previous 4 years.
Some light-switch in her head flipped as soon as she got a new job. I think having been at home with the baby for the 2 years prior sent her into a tailspin when she got a social life back, and valued it over our M and family. That sound familiar to what your wife did?
Are you fit? Healthy? Do you look good? What have you done for yourself? What will she see the first time you interact with her since January?
I have always been in pretty good shape, and up until GAL'ing had never "worked out" a day in my life, beyond hiking and the climbing gym. That being said, since Jan 1 when I moved in with my best friend 2 months after WW moved out from our apartment, i have been
working out consistently on his gym equipment. Its starting to pay dividends for sure!
She will see a more fit, new hairstyle (she complained about this, but i changed this for me not her) more confident man who is done pining, begging and has a new backbone. lol.
My goal is to be a warrior. A man of honor and conviction. Sound of body and mind.
If you don't want a D then don't push the issue. That is a personal choice. It is concerning that she has went to all these lengths to hide her pregnancy and TRO with you not doing anything wrong. All of it just doesn't make sense to me which should hopefully help you realize that this is more about her than you. You should also question whether or not you even want to be with this women after all of the accusations she has made combined with the OM would be too much for me to overcome. Again this is a personal choice.
Definitely holding off on D for now. more for legal reasons than anything. As far as what she's done and if id take her back, i think that would entirely depend on her demeanor and actions in the future. Time will only tell here. Im not holding my breath.
I still have tiny slivers of hope, but not anything i cling to.
IMO if you don't want a D don't file or push it forward but you have to move forward with your life, enjoy the time with your son and be the best father you can be. Let your w take her journey, don't check out FB, don't like stuff, don't stew over the jacket, don't sweat the small details, don't send her a letter.....doing nothing is still taking action.
THIS is what i needed to hear. thank you. These things all seem so important but they really arent. Time and healing is.
Truthfully being separated is the best thing that has happened to you.
As much as it freakin hurts, yes. I am coming to realize you are totally right.
She has no clue what Ill be like on the other side of this.
And im doing my best not to care what she will be like on the other side of this.
Regain Control, i dont think so.
It's not control over your sitch it is control over your life. ACC and LH taught me a lot about this. Your stability and comfort has been ripped from you so grab at anything to try to stabilize yourself. That means trying to rationalize, analyze and think about/strategize what you did wrong.
You will never know the answer. I read on this board once that there are many things in life that happen to good people all the time that they never get answers for......why should you be any different? You have to accept and move on.
Easier said than done
That sound familiar to what your wife did?
My W was not a stay at home mom but I think by moving jobs she got exposed to different co-workers who opened up her eyes to a new lifestyle that she never really was exposed to before. TBH she probably had the feelings they just enabled her to make it happen. It was the perfect storm most of these ladies are D, or unhappy in their MR's and this pushed her over the edge.
Even with this happening her thoughts were there......anyone who is happy in a MR will not do this so these enablers are not the reason. It was hard for me to accept at first but now I do. I played a role.
Thanks for the input Joe. I really appreciate it.
Gym efforts starting to pay off, with summer around the bend this has me feeling confident :), and im going to look at an apartment today with my son. Hopefully if i get it i can make it work, as its small, but affordable. Only 1BR, hoping the living room is big enough that i could partition a section of for my sons "room", or i may just give him the room and treat it like a studio for myself, who knows. So hopefully some positives on the horizon. Apartments around here are hard to find so ill make it work if i get accepted.
Im a bit worried as my last rental went south because of WW leaving and not being able to afford it anymore.
Im concerned I cant use them as a reference for prior rental.
Play it by ear i guess.
Good...working out and lifting weights has helped me immensely. It is hard to feel down on your luck and depressed when you have that blood pumping through your muscles and increase your endorphins. Getting jacked also increases your confidence with summer around the corner you shouldn't need any excuse to take your shirt off.
Cool on the apartment, 1BR, 2 BR or no BR makes no difference just own it! Your castle! Sounds positive to me!
Thanks, i can feel the build up of how GAL will change my life situation.
i still very much think about the possibility of R, but i understand it is a slim chance and nothing is expected.
I feel so bad that my son has to go through this, hes moved all over the place in the last 6 months. He loved our house and his room in the Marital Apartment. I know he is hurting. i mourn all the birthdays, Christmases and other events together as a family that may never be, but if that is to be the way it is, so be it.
Preface: i know this is still an example of WW "occupying my head space". As ive said before i feel this need to understand what HAPPENED as best I can so I know how best to act / react in the future. Please bear with me.
Question:
I remembered some occurrences from back before the TRO.
1.) WW Would get very mad when I would refer to OM as "her boyfriend"
2.) before i learned DB techniques, I had been included some photo's from our wedding in a letter i gave her at our last MC meeting. She also got very mad about this.
3.) she changed a while back from calling me normal pet names to using my first name, which i mentioned bothered me and she continued to do it. She NEVER referred to me this way in the past.
4.) Why continue to deny / lie about OM in Jan when she knew i was fully aware of the situation? I literally caught her at OM's house on her day off, like red handed. to deny/lie at that point defies logic IMHO, Why do it?
Looking back now after learning a lot about the mindset of a WW, would you say these are examples of her projecting her guilt on me when i presented her with confrontation of things she had knowingly done wrong, and had compartmentalized and put away so she didnt have to deal/feel them? Did i bring these to the surface and "offend" her by reminding her of what she did wrong, even though my intention was to garner some sort of sympathy (again, i had no clue how counter productive this was at the time)
The reason for 4 is her own guilt. Admitting to being a cheating -I'll leave the next word out LOL- is too hard for people, even in the midst of their cheating. So they deny, avoid the truth, lie, all in the name of trying to feel good about themselves. Really not surprising. Anyone that would break the most sacred covenant that a human-being can take on this earth would be willing to lie through their teeth about it even in the face of evidence.
Sorry if this is too strongly worded about the woman that you still love, but truth is truth.
No offense taken at all, in fact I quite agree. Call a spade a spade.
Any thoughts on 1-3?
Sandi,
If you see this, i humbly ask for you valuable input.
I am not Sandi but I can tell you that number 2 is 100% pursuing so that is why it made her mad......#3 is her way of disrespecting you and showing you that she is currently done with your MR.
#1 I can only assume it has to do with some denial on her part, maybe some guilt and maybe some pursuing on your part....
Thank you.
These are all things i did before learning of DB'ing, and will not be repeated behaviors.
I've learned so much from reading the Vet's situations.
As ACC would say you have to walk in the completely opposite direction. It took my EW about 9 months before she loosened up and starting joking around with me. It will take a long time before she unwinds herself but will only happen when you have removed all of the pressure.
Think of her like a Hurricane spinning out of control
I will add that even though my EW jokes around with me and initiates contact most of the time there is still a line that I don't cross and that line is bringing up our sitch. Even when we walked into the court room and our D was finalized I never brought it up, asked if she was sure this is what she wanted, etc. She is a grown adult, she started this mess and she is the one that is going to end it...not me.
that logic is EXACTLY why i put my D on hold.
When i filed in Jan i DIDNT WANT TO and felt coerced into it by WW and my family.
I put it on hold the day after filing.
Once i took hold off (again, still very unsure of the descision) and we proceeded to First Appearance and Child Impact Seminar, those 2 events made me truly decide I did not want the Divorce.
The last time we spoke at the last MC meeting she said
"i was never sure if i wanted a divorce, as its such a big decsison but now i know, I WANT A DIVORCE"
i replied "Well if you are the one that wants one, and you are the one who left and is having an affair, YOU can file and YOU can get the divorce"
Of course i ended up being the one to file, but unless the judge denies my motion to place on hold, It will stay on hold until she makes an effort to actually get the divorce she "wanted" and i DONT WANT.
take responsibility for your own decisions and desire.
Only you know when you are ready to file....my W came to me about 9 months after our separation started and indicated she was ready to move forward with the D. I first told myself I would stand for 6 months and then re-evaluate. After 6 months I felt that I could make it a year so I continued. I never got to the one year mark so I don't know what would have happened.
If you choose to stand and essentially be in LIMBO you really have to let her go and move on with your life. If you don't and continue to hang on her every word, her every action and follow her on SM it will be very rough for you and you will delay the healing process.
If you choose to stand and essentially be in LIMBO you really have to let her go and move on with your life. If you don't and continue to hang on her every word, her every action and follow her on SM it will be very rough for you and you will delay the healing process.
Joseph,
I am doing exactly that. I expect we will get divorced, i have accepted this. I never wanted to get divorced, and i feel she needs to be the one to take responsibility for her actions, lies and decisions. If the judge denies the motion to put on hold, then i will follow that and move forward with it. If it gets accepted, i am going to continue on with MY life doing MY thing and getting MYSELF and my son ahead and healing.
If she chooses to do nothing and remain in Limbo, so be it.
If she chooses to take the initiative and File D herself, So be it.
If she chooses to keep her head in the sand for another year and discuss R, so be it. Ill listen.
All i plan on doing is whatever makes me heal and feel better.
Her actions, choices, decisions and feelings are hers to manage and live with.
If she approaches me as a friend, ill be friendly.
If she approaches me to talk about R, i will stick to my boundaries but listen and be available.
If she stays with OM, whatever.
Im not 100% there yet, but moving expeditiously to where I feel I need to be to be the best me.
That is my only REAL goal, Improvement in happiness and quality of life for myself and my boy. That's it.
Thanks for keeping me on track!
Hope is yours to hang to as long as you wish....don't let it stop you though from moving forward. As you get stronger, more confident and cultivate that life of your own continuing to stand might not be as easy. If you stand long enough you will probably start to wonder why and question if your doing the right thing. Early on it is much easier to say you won't file and most folks on the site would tell you whether you are D or not the emotions you have to process are still the same.....having a piece of paper in your hand won't change it.
You are on the right path
I'm going to respond to your questions from the usual or typical WW. However, I don't think your W is all that typical.
1.) WW Would get very mad when I would refer to OM as "her boyfriend"
Well how did you expect her to react? Were you trying to make her feel shame, embarrassment, hurt, or what? What context did you use it? Without knowing any details, I would guess it appeared very passive-aggressive. You used it to provoke some type of emotion in your W, didn't you? So, don't act so surprised she got mad.
2.) before i learned DB techniques, I had been included some photo's from our wedding in a letter i gave her at our last MC meeting. She also got very mad about this.
Again, you were trying to get a certain response from her. One of the 37 rules refers to things like showing old M photos, or try to get the spouse to read books on M help or watch a video, etc. It is pursuit, and it is a huge turn-off to the WW. It makes the H look needy. You have to see the WW as if there has never been a relationship between you, and she is someone you've just met. Would you have been applying that kind of emotional pressure to some woman you've just met? No, b/c she would run for the hills.
3.) she changed a while back from calling me normal pet names to using my first name, which i mentioned bothered me and she continued to do it. She NEVER referred to me this way in the past.
It's the WW's way of emotionally distancing the H from her. Her loving feelings are gone. Would a woman use pet names if she was not in an romantic, intimate relationship? It is also so the H will not make more of it than she means. Like some H's will say, "If she had no feelings for me, why would she call me by pet names?". The H will strain at every nat that flies his way. I mean, I wouldn't even smile, b/c I didn't want my H thinking, "Yipee! Things are back on again"! I just wanted him to leave me alone, so I kept things very cool (and I don't mean Fonzie cool).
4.) Why continue to deny / lie about OM in Jan when she knew i was fully aware of the situation? I literally caught her at OM's house on her day off, like red handed. to deny/lie at that point defies logic IMHO, Why do it?
That's a question for a psychologist. IMHO, it's not b/c she is in
self denial about having an affair. She may be in denial as to the truth surrounding the circumstances that led to the affair and where it is going. That's due to her fantasy. She has her reason for denying in the face of hard evidence.....even getting caught red handed. I can guarantee you that in
her thinking....denying it is what she sees as
her best option at that time. The WW will always put her best benefit above everything else, due to the selfishness that drives her. By the time she is having an A, her mindset is in such a crazy state, that there's nothing about her that is logical.
Looking back now after learning a lot about the mindset of a WW, would you say these are examples of her projecting her guilt on me when i presented her with confrontation of things she had knowingly done wrong, and had compartmentalized and put away so she didnt have to deal/feel them? Did i bring these to the surface and "offend" her by reminding her of what she did wrong, even though my intention was to garner some sort of sympathy (again, i had no clue how counter productive this was at the time)
Maybe, IDK. I believe there is a difference in knowing you are guilty and
feeling guilty. In the WW mindset, she feels justified b/c of all the disrespect, resentment, and rebellious feelings she has toward her H, and/or the M. So, how can you feel guilty when you believe you are justified? It gets complicated when trying to give an answer to this question. A lot of WW's have a need to justify leaving the M to her parents, grown children, old friends......(people who
know the H. Except, she usually doesn't try to convince her MIL & FIL). So, she demonizes her H, to her parents, etc., to persuad them she is justified in leaving. Now get this.........she believes it's his fault that she had an A. It comes from deep resentment and bitterness. Way down deep in her heart, she knows she is responsible for her own actions.....but she doesn't want to claim responsibility. That's the part I see as self denial. Her entire fantasy is self denial of the truth. She wants to do what she wants.....and come out smelling like a rose. Is she projecting guilt on you? I don't know. I was a WW, but I don't how to answer a lot of questions H's have. How can she blame you and project guilt at the same time? IDK, I'm not a psychologist. It's too deep and complicated.
IMHO, the way you and your W got together is not typical of the average couple. I mean you engaged in sex within the first 2-3 hours of the first date, and you M her without really knowing who you were getting. You have been together a considerably short period of time. So, how much disrespect and resentment she has built, IDK. It's not like being M for decades and then she rebels. Rebellion is a big part of the wayward behavior. If you have any idea what she is rebelling against, it might give you a clue, IDK.
I'm guessing there is something about her that has been kept hidden from you all this time. Although she had not had a pegnacy or give birth (that you know, anyway), there are too many things about her past she refuses to reveal to her own H. The way she had picked you out, saying she was in love with you.....before really meeting you. There is something that just has a wrong feeling about the entire situation. I know you love her and my words may be offensive, but I am speaking from my heart and for concern for you and your child. Whatever it is in her past, her parents won't reveal it, either. So, I feel this is more than just the typical WW case. I'm not saying she's not wayward. I'm saying I think she hiding a
big secret, and her parents knows what it is and that's why they are covering for her. I think some of her behavior issues are a pattern.
Going into a M with secrets and refusing to be open and honest with her H, is destruction waiting to happen. If there is a chance of this M surviving, I think it will have to come through her willingness to reveal everything and to get serious therapy.
((hugs))
Sandi.
So much to say in response. After i put the little guy to bed im gonna crack open the laptop and lay it out.
You are so on point with this last post its scary. Ill elaborate asap.
Well how did you expect her to react? Were you trying to make her feel shame, embarrassment, hurt, or what? What context did you use it? Without knowing any details, I would guess it appeared very passive-aggressive. You used it to provoke some type of emotion in your W, didn't you? So, don't act so surprised she got mad.
I suppose that makes sense. I suppose I was saying it as a means of getting her to admit to something, to acknowledge the affair relationship beyond the BS "one night stand" story I had been fed.
I'm not surprised she got mad, but a bit surprised as to HOW mad this made her. Showing legitimate anger is very uncommon for her. She is the queen of non confrontational passive aggressiveness.
Again, you were trying to get a certain response from her. One of the 37 rules refers to things like showing old M photos, or try to get the spouse to read books on M help or watch a video, etc. It is pursuit, and it is a huge turn-off to the WW. It makes the H look needy. You have to see the WW as if there has never been a relationship between you, and she is someone you've just met. Would you have been applying that kind of emotional pressure to some woman you've just met? No, b/c she would run for the hills.
Not much to say in response to this other than guilty as charged, a lesson painfully learned, and not to be repeated. Had I not found this forum that pattern of behavior on my behalf would have likely continued for some time.
It's the WW's way of emotionally distancing the H from her. Her loving feelings are gone. Would a woman use pet names if she was not in an romantic, intimate relationship? It is also so the H will not make more of it than she means. Like some H's will say, "If she had no feelings for me, why would she call me by pet names?". The H will strain at every nat that flies his way. I mean, I wouldn't even smile, b/c I didn't want my H thinking, "Yipee! Things are back on again"! I just wanted him to leave me alone, so I kept things very cool (and I don't mean Fonzie cool).
Yea, this definitely happened on an epic scale. "edge of the marital bed" to the max. She actually got to the point where she would cringe at my touch, like just to show a moment of affection before we went to bed. actually freaking cringed.
That's a question for a psychologist. IMHO, it's not b/c she is in [i]self denial about having an affair. She may be in denial as to the truth surrounding the circumstances that led to the affair and where it is going. That's due to her fantasy. She has her reason for denying in the face of hard evidence.....even getting caught red handed. I can guarantee you that in her thinking....denying it is what she sees as her best option at that time. The WW will always put her best benefit above everything else, due to the selfishness that drives her. By the time she is having an A, her mindset is in such a crazy state, that there's nothing about her that is logical.
[/i]
Yea that makes sense. Fantasy is the perfect way to put it. I can even remember before the affair or anything my mother saying to me that my wife "expected a fantasy life, like she would pop open the windows and birds would fly in and do her housework for her while singing just like Snow White. That girl watched too much Disney movies as a kid".
I think fantasy plays a huge role for her, like the "fantasy" marriage she had in her mind didn't come to fruition (she clearly waited forever[i] to see if it would....smh) and when it didnt she began seeking the next thing. Then she created a new fantasy with OM.
**SPEAKING OF OM**
my son has been saying odd stuff, like OM may not be around as much or something. Its clear my son isnt really super keen on him anymore. at first i had to grind my teeth as my 3yo told me about how OM was his friend and got him this or that, but I think my son may have realized OM is "in dadas spot" so to speak? he now barely mentions him, and once randomly just blurted out "i dont like OM" i don't ask my son to tell me anything about when he is over with W, hes 3 he doesn't need people interrogating him. He is chatty though and judging by some of the things he has said things may be less than ideal in Affairland. If not, par for the course right? Doesn't really make a difference to me right now. If so, serves them right.
I hate to see my son going through this termoil and confusion, and I have to move again soon so he will get out of sorts AGAIN. He doesn't like the moving around.
Poor guy....I feel like I'm not the Dad I should be because of this.
He was a glowing ball of infinite happiness when W and I were together. This has hurt him profoundly and if W can't see that than she is truly lost IMO.
[i]So, she demonizes her H, to her parents, etc., to persuad them she is justified in leaving. Now get this.........she believes it's his fault that she had an A. It comes from deep resentment and bitterness. Way down deep in her heart, she knows she is responsible for her own actions.....but she doesn't want to claim responsibility. That's the part I see as self denial. Her entire fantasy is self denial of the truth. She wants to do what she wants.....and come out smelling like a rose.
Okayyyy now. We get to the meat of the issue here Sandi.
The demonization began a good deal before i knew about it for sure. Her Mom and Dad were first, her best "friend" (someone who has since admitted to me that she has been lied to and manipulated by W in the past, as they were once roommates), and eventually even some of my friends, not super close ones who would have told me right off the bat.
"She believes its H's fault she had an affair"
Sandi, She literally told me that VERBATIM.
I ignored her needs, didn't support her, took her for granted. etc.
I'm by no means perfect, but the scope of the things she ALL THE SUDDEN decided to voice, once the A was exposed. Years worth of resentments never mentioned by her in the past. Bottled up disagreements and pet peeves just culminated in a volcanic outburst of lies, adultery, selfishness and flat out immaturity.
We have to co parent for the next 15 years. She can't hide behind self denial forever.
How she sleeps at night boggles the mind.
IMHO, the way you and your W got together is not typical of the average couple. I mean you engaged in sex within the first 2-3 hours of the first date, and you M her without really knowing who you were getting. You have been together a considerably short period of time. So, how much disrespect and resentment she has built, IDK. It's not like being M for decades and then she rebels. Rebellion is a big part of the wayward behavior. If you have any idea what she is rebelling against, it might give you a clue, IDK.
I think she rebelled against the aforementioned failed fantasy marriage. Or the perceived loss of a social life or lifestyle she all the sudden decided she wasn't ready to give up?
I still can't for the life of me figure out where the secret squirrel pregnancy fits into all this.
The only thing I have to go on there is that her EXBF had a son about 6mos before she got pregnant, but that seems like a stretch, but she PLANNED that hidden pregnancy. We had a "pregnancy scare" before that, and she was on BC, and showed me the pill packets and everything. Once i found out about our son, she told me she had been taking the BC the entire time, and had me convinced that it was just some fluke, or she took antibiotics back when we conceived and didnt know, etc. I bought it hook line and sinker for years. Only when her Exbest"friend" told me that the two of them had discussed the pregnancy back in July that I had my eyes opened.
I'm guessing there is something about her that has been kept hidden from you all this time. Although she had not had a pegnacy or give birth (that you know, anyway), there are too many things about her past she refuses to reveal to her own H. The way she had picked you out, saying she was in love with you.....before really meeting you. There is something that just has a wrong feeling about the entire situation. I know you love her and my words may be offensive, but I am speaking from my heart and for concern for you and your child. Whatever it is in her past, her parents won't reveal it, either. So, I feel this is more than just the typical WW case. I'm not saying she's not wayward. I'm saying I think she hiding a big secret, and her parents knows what it is and that's why they are covering for her. I think some of her behavior issues are a pattern.
This is the paragraph where you really hit home Sandi.
You literally clued in on something I've had suspicions on but haven't yet voiced. I agree. Something DID Happen to her, early on and it effected her ability to process emotions properly. I truly believe this. I have had this suspicion for some time, and just haven't voiced it here because of its potentially sensitive nature, depending on what IT is, whatever happened to her. I have guesses and ideas, but they are just that. Speculation, which leads to assumption and I'm not going down that dark and thorny path.
Again you hit the nail on the head with the precision of a surgeon when you said her parents know and are covering for her.
This is 100% the case, i can't really explain here correctly how i know this to be true. It comes out in their body language, tone of voice and lying tells, but it is definitely the case. No doubt in my mind.
Which brings me to the deep dark core of the conflict in which I face.
I know I've already laid out my ideals and morals regarding marriage and spoken vows in an earlier post, so I wont reiterate that.
If you haven't already guessed im a bit of a nerd.
I am a fan of history, and fantasy and the classic chivalrous knight type character traits always appealed to me.
My philosophy so far for GAL'in has been "Be a warrior. A Warrior is strong, but just. Loyal, honorable, dedicated, resilient, indomitable, and honest"
A mans (or a woman's, just using the expression) word means A LOT to me. Something i think holds FAR too little weight in today's age.
A spoken vow meant a $h!7load to me. Like A LOT. I write as a hobby. i really put a lot of thought into my vows.
That being said, my conflict is this.
I made a spoken vow to a woman to love her forever, no matter what.
Sickness and health.
SICKNESS.
she is very likely SICK.
How do i justifiably leave the woman i spoke an oath to, when she is sick?
That played a big role in putting the D on hold for me. That is what I don't want to do it.
If it means I need to sit in Limbo before she has some sort of breakthrough and seeks therapy, under her own decision and resolve, and begins to heal the way she actually needs to, then as her husband i feel it is my duty to be there when that happens.
I really feel like there are two people in there sometimes......and it scares the cr@p out of me. real honest fear. I know the woman i fell in love with. She was THE SUN. She was SPRING, the reflection of fireworks on a glass-smooth lake, midsummer. Everything in the world that was delicious, comforting, compassionate, loving and lovable all smooshed into one tiny adorable little woman. I cannot begin to describe how radiant and amazing she was, and now there is this stranger, this alien, who looks like my Helen of Troy. I just cannot fathom the depth and brevity of her changes. Granted her behaviors spanned pretty much all of 2017, and i have a hard time believing it was randomly her New Years resolution that year to carpet bomb our lives, the change was abrupt, I just didn't SEE it until it was way too late, fool that I am.
Which brings us to the other edge of the sword.
All that said above, do I just walk? for the sake of my sanity and to cultivate the best parenting scenario I can at my home for my son and I, do i just run from the explosion that was my life like some Slo-Mo action sequence, and stunt roll into the next chapter of my life looking like a BAMF? That's the mindset I've put myself in to GAL for the most part, but I cannot seem to let go of the things mentioned above for real and true.
I do love her. Deeply. Infinitely, as I spoke in my vows in fact.
I have been abused. Emotionally abused and manipulated, and lied to and betrayed by the woman I swore my soul to. Less than 6 months after having sworn that soul no less.
Forgive my history references, but I called her My Helen of Troy, as I did IRL.
I am not Menelaus. I am Paris. I know this.
But I have been ABUSED. BETRAYED. LIED TO BY THE WOMAN WHO I GAVE ALL I HAD TO.
When does Honor become foolishness?
When does Dedication become blind ignorance?
When does Strength become crushing, pitiless weakness and defeat?
How much will it take to break the resolve of my vows?
My wife My well be SICK.
I lack the power to heal her if she is.
I even lack the power to make her heal herself.
I Learned this lesson the hard way, watching my brother fight addiction for 5 years, and lost him abruptly after a year of sobriety.
I desire her to be healed, whole, happy, prosperous and worry free.
With or without me.
I know DB'ing says not to look into your WW and so on, but it happens and we all do it.
I've been doing good, recently.
But what I saw before, and mentioned in prior posts, she looks miserable in most of what i have seen.
Tired and forcing her smiles. I say this as "unbiased" as i can, im not trying to look for her to be unhappy. I hated to see her like that when i did. It was NOT the bees knees.
This isnt the result she wanted or planned for.
So there it is.
Honor my vow, wait in Limbo and just GAL and do my thing while I wait to see if she comes around or seeks help in any way?
Or Bail?
and that is what i truly flip flop back and forth on.
There. Now I've said EVERYTHING in my sitch.
All dem bones be out the closet now.
Going into a M with secrets and refusing to be open and honest with her H, is destruction waiting to happen. If there is a chance of this M surviving, I think it will have to come through her willingness to reveal everything and to get serious therapy.
Yes. Yes it will. One can only hope.
This will sound like a stretch coming from someone who isn't religious.
Can you pray for her?
Her family is faithful, and I know if they knew the truth, they would appreciate it.
((hugs))
Back at you Sandi. You are a Warrior.
Sorry Everyone. I just realized how very, very wrong I've been using the quote feature.
All of Sandi's answers from prior post are in Italics except the one beginning "{i} So, She demonizes her H......."
Its late. typos happened.
The weight is less and less everyday. GAL is a thing. for reals.
The weight is less and less everyday. GAL is a thing. for reals.
This is awesome, Orange. I'm happy for you. GAL is one of the things I struggle with. It's not that I don't want to, but I find it hard to find the time. Since W walked out at the beginning of the year, I've been the sole parent taking care of my kids. Every once in a while, my parents will watch them to give me a break. And I usually go out one night on the weekends after the little ones go to bed when my oldest son stays with me. But I wish I had more time to get out of the house for some me time. The times I do get out, I enjoy myself and keep myself occupied and W and this whole situation just seems to disappear for a while...
GAL is very important, equally important is working out, walking, running. Get moving, listen to music to get yourself motivated. (no sad music)
Listen to the vets here, they know what they are talking about.
Same here, My W left in Oct and i have my son 4 nights a week, and other obligations most others. Free time for ME is at a premium right now.
Pick small things you can do for yourself, for me its been stuff as simple as getting back into gaming at home with friends, or picking up some new books, or hitting my roommates gym equip in the basement.
I will be learning to ride a motorcycle soon, as according to my roommate "you'll never need therapy again once you get on a bike"
riding the Kangamangus Pass on a motorcycle is my end of summer goal.
Honestly once my kid is in bed, a cup of coffee (yes i drink coffee at 11pm) a good book and some soothing music has been one of my best GAL activities.
Gives me time to relax and step out of my own head.
I still have days I miss my W TERRIBLY, and other days I get furious at her betrayals and lies, but i find more and more often, those events are less frequent and last less time each occurrence.
As much as it doesn't feel like it, i honestly think WW is suffering more than me. In different ways mind you, but THIS debacle is not what she had in mind for an end result, I can guarantee that.
I've been having good convo's with a woman i used to talk to way back in the day, and it was entirely unintentional too. Just kinda happened. Nothing I'm actively pursuing but its helped with my self esteem.
"yes i drink coffee at 11pm"
Doesn't everyone?
I drink it all day every day and then fall to sleep no problem.
Nights like tonight are tough. I have to pickup my son, go home to my roommates house, where i know he would prefer not having kids around, and I'm stuck at home, basically penned up in my room that i SHARE with my 3 year old, stuck inside on a friday night.
I dont even have a whole lot to keep Son entertained, as i had to ship most of his/our stuff up to my parents house when i left the apartment WW and io had Shared.
She Effing ruined everything, all for what? a fling with OM that may already be fizzling out?
Selfish Immature B***C. I know thats petty name calling, but damn is this frustrating. its a pathetic waste is what it is.
a damn waste and a damn shame.
I should have known better.
This is one of those nights we should be at home as a family, in PJ's, all cozy on the couch watching a movie together or something. Instead its either date night with OM or party night with her friends while i stay at home, struggling to keep OUR so busy and happy. languishing in poverty.
Awesome Friday night!! WooT!
Pity party is now over, carry on.
I came home to ww's response to my divorce petition and ammendment from fault to no fault. In it she denies the early contact and cohabitation with om. I was also a bit amused to see that she wrote that I neglected to mention the domestic case, if she had realized that I had originally filed the first papers on January 18th and to the domestic issue did not occur until January 27th. At the end she did mention that the Court determined that we were eligible for mediation in regards to custody and she wants to participate in my mediation and reach an amicable and peaceful dissolution. it makes no mention of the recent motion to place it on hold that I filed so I wonder if that's still pending or if it got denied. despite being a fairly standard response for some reason it's got my emotions all fired up.
My mind has a few scenarios playing about your W, but it would all be guesswork. The most curious part I find about the relationship (that you have shared with us so far) is her hiding the pregnancy for six months. It has been reported by women who did not know they were pregnant.......that they never had the big belly. I know one woman IRL that had that experience, and she swore she thought she was just gaining some weight, but wore her regular size jeans up until she was rushed to ER......b/c she was in labor. When I was six months pregnant, I don't think I could hidden it in a moo-moo dress! But my point is that she
knew she was pregnant. She was married and apparently in a happy and healthy relationship with her H. And yet, she PLANNED a
hidden pregnancy! I can't help but believe there is an emotional connection in the hidden pregnancy and what happened in her past.
Do you suspect she was molested as a child/teenager? If there happened to have been a pregnancy, and if she had to keep the pregnancy a secret.........it could have caused emotional issues for her. If she carried it to term, and her parents made her give it up for adoption.......I could see why she might have some fear in letting them know about this pregnancy......and maybe even fear telling you. I mean, they would have been the ones closest to her......so I could see why she would fear or mistrust the reactions to her pregnancy.
If there was a pregnancy and if she was forced to have an abortion......it could answer why she acted so strangely. The same could be said if she had been molested.........or if there had been incest. I know I am going way out on a limb here, and I have nothing to really go on but a gut feeling. It may have been nothing of the sort that ever happened, I hope and pray it didn't. But if it
did, then she could have serious emotional issues that were never addressed properly..........and were kept a secret within her family.
At the risk of sounding like I'm playing psychologist here, I will even go futher and say it would make sense why she would escape reality into the fantasy of a Disney type of life. She might have been the fairest in all the land, but if she was not emotionally mature enough at the point of getting M........it would have been difficult for her to deal with day to day reality with a home, a H, and a baby. It can be quite the let down for young brides.
One of our board members, Vanilla, is very informed about personality disorders, etc. She might read your thread and give her take on your W's behavior (before the M and since then). As I've said previously, things were not what I think as being typical.....but, maybe that's just me. If Vanilla has not posted on your thread, you might try to run her down and ask her to drop by.
How do i justifiably leave the woman i spoke an oath to, when she is sick?
That played a big role in putting the D on hold for me. That is what I don't want to do it.
Actually, she is the one that left the M and broke her vows, but I know what you are saying. I have raised two men who have the same type of morals and viewpoints about women, love, vows, etc.
I don't think someone else will be able to give you the
emotional justification.......and/or the
moral justification you ponder at the moment. It is something that
you have to decide, and you're just not ready at this time. The decision may be taken from you, if she files for the D. But let's talk about what you wrote in your post. It really choked me up when I read the agony in your words. You are hurting so much and I hope this post won't add more pain. Until you know more about what is really wrong with your W, I am concerned it will emotionally imprison you to some extent. Not knowing if there is a mental illness or if there's some tragedy in her past that has left terrible untreated wounds..........how could it not haunt you? I may completely off base with my perceptions. There may be nothing wrong other than waywardness. if that's the case, you cannot deal with it as though she were sick.
For now, my suggestion is to not initiate D proceedings, as long as you feel this strongly. MThere is such a thing as moving forward with living.......without closing the books on your love and the marriage with your W. If you were my son, I would tell you not to pursue her, but not to slam the door shut as long as your feelings stay this strong and she's not a threat to you and your child.......and if she doesn't remarry. As a mother, I would probably want to see you move on and build a life apart from her........as a way of finding a happier life. But for now, I think focusing on having the best relationship with your son, and GAL is the best thing to do. If your W does not turn to you for help, or to take her back, then you aren't going to influence her decisions in seeking professional help. All you can do is be the lighthouse on the rock. (Have you read the lighthouse link)?
My concern is that she may try to dart in & out of your marriage (between other affairs), keeping you and your son upset. Maybe promising to get therapy or whatever, but not sticking with it. I hope you can find peace with what to do, considering the situation with her. You probably want to go whisk her away and bring her back home (the whole knight in shining armor thing)........which is also b/c you love her. Here's the thing, Orange. No matter what a terrific man you are, the problem lies in the heart/mind of your W. You can stand on your morals and standards, but it doesn't mean it will change
hers. Know what I mean? I'm certainly not expecting you to change your beliefs, but neither can you force her to change. Even if she is reacting to something else, if she won't let you in.......then you can't force it. As long as you don't feel your child is in danger, you basically have to wait for her to come to you. If she does, then hopefully, you can get her to seek help. One thing is for certain, if she doesn't need individual therapy, the two of you will need a good M therapist. I hope she gets therapy first.
For a while, you may be required to love her from a distance. Give her space and take some for yourself. Space and time can do a lot of good when there's problems in the MR. Plus, if she breaks it off with the OM, she'll need a little time before her feelings change back to you. At least, that's the way it is with typical WW's.
This will sound like a stretch coming from someone who isn't religious.
Can you pray for her?
Her family is faithful, and I know if they knew the truth, they would appreciate it.
Oh, Orange! Yes, I will pray for her, as well as for you and your little boy. (((hugs)))
Hi OrangeK, I'm sorry and sad to read about your situation and to think that you and a three year old child are suffering as a result of your wife's decisions. It's unfathomable to me how a mother can do that with a toddler. Normally children are very attached to their mothers at this age and vice versa. I can't imagine spending even one night without my four year old daughter. I doubt it will ever happen. That's so unfair for you to become a single dad while your wife is out living with her boyfriend enjoying her life. This shouldn't be legal. It's so, so terrible.
As you can see on my thread, my husband did something like this two years ago but he came back depressed, saying he'd kill himself, etc.. I was so happy he came back and he made many promises that we'd fix everything but we never did and he's gone again.
I guess your wife will have to hit rock bottom before she considers changing or coming back. This will probably happen when her affair ends and there's no other man lined up for her. Hopefully that'll happen soon so at least some progress can be made.
It must be so hard and extremely difficult to focus just on being a father to your son, but he needs you more than anything in this world and has no control over what's happening to him. He's just an innocent child and what your wife is doing will affect him for the rest of his life, so you basically have to give your son extra love and extra uninterrupted (no texting or phone) play time and extra everything to give him the best shot possible to feel secure and stable. I'm trying to do this for my daughter although sometimes I'm completely exhausted. They need so much at this age!
The good news is you're young and there are plenty of single moms who'd love to find a single dad and when you find a match the two of you can raise your kids together and have the happy family you dream about.
It'd be great if your wife could soon want to fix her life and return and for now you seem to be stuck waiting for her to change, but somehow this will be temporary and hopefully either you'll reunite with your wife or you'll find someone new and still create the loving family that you and your son need.
I saw your shout out Orange I will post to you when I have read your thread.
V
She was married and apparently in a happy and healthy relationship with her H. And yet, she PLANNED a hidden pregnancy!
Our son was born Jan 2015, we were Married Sept 2016, but still. Why hid it? if she had talked to me about it i would have been open and understanding...
I can't help but believe there is an emotional connection in the hidden pregnancy and what happened in her past.
I honestly think she got pregnant because her EX from before me had gone and met someone new, they fell in love quickly, got married and had a child. I think she had one of her "fantasies" planned around this man, and it fell apart.
I feel like theres a chance aspects of WW and My relationship was to fill in where her previous relationship failed. Just a guess.
Do you suspect she was molested as a child/teenager?
I have deeply considered this possibility. If so, she never even so much as hinted towards it, but i can definitely see why you would guess at that.
She might have been the fairest in all the land, but if she was not emotionally mature enough at the point of getting M........it would have been difficult for her to deal with day to day reality with a home, a H, and a baby. It can be quite the let down for young brides.
I think this is EXACTLY the case. Explains why she was so in love and soooo ready to get married. Then 4 months later. BAM. Nopeed right out of a situation she had built and cultivated.
Actually, she is the one that left the M and broke her vows
You are right, but i still feel compelled to wait it out. for now. I have a feeling that feeling my change based on how she acts post-RO.
For now, my suggestion is to not initiate D proceedings, as long as you feel this strongly. MThere is such a thing as moving forward with living.......without closing the books on your love and the marriage with your W. If you were my son, I would tell you not to pursue her, but not to slam the door shut as long as your feelings stay this strong and she's not a threat to you and your child.......and if she doesn't remarry. As a mother, I would probably want to see you move on and build a life apart from her........as a way of finding a happier life. But for now, I think focusing on having the best relationship with your son, and GAL is the best thing to do. If your W does not turn to you for help, or to take her back, then you aren't going to influence her decisions in seeking professional help. All you can do is be the lighthouse on the rock. (Have you read the lighthouse link)?
I have read it, and its so on point with my plan of action, or lack thereof.
Im just going to take it slow and day by day.
I did a lot of counter productive things from Oct-Jan.
Its time to step back, GAL, be the lighthouse and wait.
The chips will fall when and where they are supposed to.
I am concerned it will emotionally imprison you to some extent. Not knowing if there is a mental illness or if there's some tragedy in her past that has left terrible untreated wounds..........how could it not haunt you?
I wont let it HAUNT me. Even if she is "sick", if she doesnt get herself to the point where she seeks help on her own, nobody will convince her. I learned that from living with my brothers addiction issues for 6 years.
Hard truth to swallow, but its the truth regardless.
My concern is that she may try to dart in & out of your marriage (between other affairs), keeping you and your son upset. Maybe promising to get therapy or whatever, but not sticking with it.
After reading up on boundaries, i wont let this happen.
Itll be all or nothing.
Recon or Discon.
She needs to SHOW how hard she wants things fixed if she ever does.
Sh!7 or get off the pot. Plain and simple.
Here's the thing, Orange. No matter what a terrific man you are, the problem lies in the heart/mind of your W. You can stand on your morals and standards, but it doesn't mean it will change hers. Know what I mean?
I do, and you are right. She has the issues, she is the one that went from maritally in love and talking about getting old together to ice cold, cheating and lying in 6 months time.
I know her path will continue to be a self destructive one if she doesn't change her behaviors.
She will end up like her mother, on husband #3 and miserable about it.
I will encourage self exploration when it seems conversationally appropriate someday down the line if a civil opportunity to do so presents itself.
Otherwise I need to worry about myself and my boy.
For a while, you may be required to love her from a distance. Give her space and take some for yourself. Space and time can do a lot of good when there's problems in the MR. Plus, if she breaks it off with the OM, she'll need a little time before her feelings change back to you. At least, that's the way it is with typical WW's.
I feel like all the time and space in the universe wont change much right now, but then i look at someone like ItHurts. You never know.
She asked for "space and time" in the summer, but i suspect that was just to continue her affair and get out of the house and away from me at the time. She needs to hit bottom and reflect on the debris of her life. As far as breaking it off with OM, i feel like thats 100% doomed, its just a matter of time. If she comes back to me or not is a different question.
I hate to ask the "how long" type of questions, but i have to.
How long after OM is out of picture do you typically see WW's start to look back at H? What causes the fading of OM and the re-emergence of H (if that happens that is)
Just guessing i suppose.
Oh, Orange! Yes, I will pray for her, as well as for you and your little boy. (((hugs)))
Thank you. You and the others have been such a blessing, and i dont use that word often.
I really just wish i found you all in Oct. I may be in my home with W and S right now snuggling in bed if i had.
Or i could be in worse shape.
Who knows.
Only time will tell, and im young, i have plenty.
I will be happy again, with or without her.
I will.
It's unfathomable to me how a mother can do that with a toddler. Normally children are very attached to their mothers at this age and vice versa. I can't imagine spending even one night without my four year old daughter. I doubt it will ever happen. That's so unfair for you to become a single dad while your wife is out living with her boyfriend enjoying her life. This shouldn't be legal. It's so, so terrible.
Thank you. I agree. Her decision to leave and rip his home life apart was made quite abruptly. It began to effect his behavior almost immediately, and is still having adverse effects.
I explained to her while we were still talking that she clearly put her own desires (not needs) before the emotional and developmental needs of her son. In fact i told her she clearly didn't even consider him or what effect it would have on him when she made her decisions.
The same can be said for the fact that she introduced him to OM from Day One and has maintained that. Going as far as to co-sleep with my son in OM's bed. Which i just got documentation from D court that she is denying both my claims of "inappropriate cohabitation and confusion of parental roles"
She flat out denied it even happened, and i have proof.
How the "compassionate and thoughtful" woman i fell in love what has changed to these behaviors when she claims our son "is her world" blows my mind. Her mother did similar things when W was young though, so i cant say im 100% surprised.
MIL and FIL got divorced when W was 4 and from what ive heard it was a fairly nasty divorce. MIL is on Husband #3 and FIL has been D twice, the 2nd D for him was also REALLY nasty, like REALLY bad.
W was like 18 or 19 when this one occurred.
As you can see on my thread, my husband did something like this two years ago but he came back depressed, saying he'd kill himself, etc.. I was so happy he came back and he made many promises that we'd fix everything but we never did and he's gone again.
Do you think you let things go back together too easily and didn't set boundaries? I have a fear of this happening to me.
I guess your wife will have to hit rock bottom before she considers changing or coming back. This will probably happen when her affair ends and there's no other man lined up for her. Hopefully that'll happen soon so at least some progress can be made.
Its sad to say but i am hoping and waiting for this to happen.
The only thing is that i feel she would set up another guy before leaving OM, she may tryy to make that guy me, but i dont see her leaving OM without something else to fall back on. She doesnt do well alone. AT ALL.
The only way it would really hit hard is if OM left her for some reason, and based on what i know about OM i DOUBT that will happen.
W is easily the most beautiful woman hes ever set eyes on, let alone been with. He is a big downgrade from me, and im only saying that because its a fact, no spite from me there.
I can only imagine she has him THOROUGHLY wrapped around her finger and he will likely stay that way until she is the one to get bored and unhappy like she did with me. Rinse and repeat.
She needs to hit bottom and do some SERIOUS souls searching to break this cycle.
I think it would take a larger loss to prompt this. A death in the family, or losing her job unexpectedly or something.
Who knows....
It'd be great if your wife could soon want to fix her life and return and for now you seem to be stuck waiting for her to change, but somehow this will be temporary and hopefully either you'll reunite with your wife or you'll find someone new and still create the loving family that you and your son need.
Im moving on, for myself. If she wants to fix things, (which i honestly doubt) she will have to catch up to me and do the work. She left, she has to come back. Im not chasing her EVER again. I do love her, and miss her greatly, but i feel like what i miss was an illusion, not reality.
Ill always be open to talk, but its high time i love myself first for once.
Thank you for your support!