Hi Everyone,
I am new to posting, although like many of you, have been reading a lot of posts and also read DR.
My H and I have been married for 22 years, together for 24. We have two girls, 15 and 18.
I think my H is in MLC. His communication skills have always been lacking, and all that I have really gotten him to share is that he is unhappy, and often thinks he would rather be alone. This was shared with me a few months ago. In addition, he accounts these feelings to years of a sexless marriage. I can certainly see my fault in lack of intimacy over the years, but he is re-writing history, as many others seem to do.
I have tried various aspects of the DB process, with some success at times, but now none at all. A few months ago, I tried initiating intimacy and we were having sex about twice a week. I set up dinner dates with friends, and GAL on my own (starting going to the gym several times a week, joined a book group, reconnected with old friends, etc.). Things were headed in the right direction, I thought. For whatever reason, for the past few weeks, things have taken a turn. He does not want to go out at all with me, and barely speaks to me.
Now, as the MLC seems to be progressing, we are like strangers in the household. He does not want me in the bed with him, and we only seem to communicate about our dog.
Increasingly, he spends more and more time away from the house with his buddies. He did tell me he would like to be able to come and go as he pleases, without me inquiring about his whereabouts. I also stopped asking him these types of questions months ago. He has told me several times there is no other woman.
I know DR recommends trying various approaches, but I'm not sure what to do. I have always been fairly independent, and have tried offering more affection/ concern/ caring, but it is not working. Neither does continuing to be independent!
This is such an incredibly difficult time. My girls are concerned and would love nothing better than to have our family unit working again.
I know I have only scratched the surface here. Any suggestions are welcome!
Welcome to the board
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htmYou may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH. Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Can you give us a timeline? How long was your marriage sex starved? When was bomb drop?
What have you done to dig deep into your contribution to it being sex starved? Are you working with a counselor to address those issues?
Thank you for responding!
As crazy as this may sound, in addition to lack of appreciation for normal motherly duties...shopping, laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc... what I think made a huge difference was snoring. I know it sounds crazy. Bear with me.
In the past 5 years, I lost my mom and dad, had a hysterectomy and a appendectomy.
When I really couldn’t sleep, or had surgery, I recovered in the guest room. To my surprise, I finally had a good night sleep! I couldn’t believe it! I didn’t even think it was possible! I started to stay in the guest room more and more often. I bought breathe-rights, which my husband refused to wear. I used to start in the bed together, and then move. Eventually we both went to our rooms. After a while, this made me cry each night!
Needless to say, to answer your question, more directly, the sex-starved marriage has probably been going on for nearly 4 years.
I started to have no desire other than sleep, and my H said nothing.
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Did you talk to your husband about why you were moving to the other room? Did you guys talk about how to keep your sex life active with separate bedrooms?
What other complaints did your husband have in your marriage?
Sex is a hard issue to address once the spouse has turned into a walk away, so you might need to start 180ing other things first.
Thank you for responding!
As crazy as this may sound, in addition to lack of appreciation for normal motherly duties...shopping, laundry, cooking, cleaning, etc... what I think made a huge difference was snoring. I know it sounds crazy. Bear with me.
In the past 5 years, I lost my mom and dad, had a hysterectomy and a appendectomy.
When I really couldn’t sleep, or had surgery, I recovered in the guest room. To my surprise, I finally had a good night sleep! I couldn’t believe it! I didn’t even think it was possible! I started to stay in the guest room more and more often. I bought breathe-rights, which my husband refused to wear. I used to start in the bed together, and then move. Eventually we both went to our rooms. After a while, this made me cry each night!
Needless to say, to answer your question, more directly, the sex-starved marriage has probably been going on for nearly 4 years.
I started to have no desire other than sleep, and my H said nothing.
I probably don't have to tell you that a married couple sleeping in separate rooms is no way to have intimacy in a marriage. Obviously you can only control you, but I have known many married couples that started sleeping in separate rooms for various reasons (recovery from surgery, snoring, night sweats, back problems) and in all cases those marriage resulted in affairs and/or divorce. You really need to fix that somehow. I know not sleeping is a terrible way to live, but you need to find something that works with the two of you sleeping in the same bed again or your marriage has very little chance of surviving.
Yes, I certainly see the error of my ways and did immediately once we started having any discussion of how we had grown apart. I told my husband that we had to sleep in the same bed, and that resulted in a temporary return to our sex life.
As I mentioned before, the past few weeks have been so different. He has told me he doesn't want me in the bed, doesn't even think of me in that way anymore. He has grown exceedingly distant and often does not make eye contact with me.
During these past two years, he has also spent more and more time at the local gun club. He is an avid hunter and practice shooter. We discussed the fact that this is a place where I am not welcomed by him. As things have continued to deteriorate, he now spends about 25 hours a week there. He has a group of friends with whom he shoots and drinks. They have been known to spend hours on end there.
As I mentioned, his communication skills are severely lacking. In response to other complaints, there have not been any. Any discussions we have had about our R, have really been just me talking, and him not saying anything. It is infuriating!!
Twice in the past two months, he has left the house. Upon returning from his gun club, he approached me and said he wasn't happy and needed some time alone. The first time it was for one night. The second time it was for two. He has even asked me to leave the house! Please know I am the one keeping the schedules for the children and making sure their lives aren't too disrupted by all of this.
I know swallowing pride is a part of all of this. I have been trying my best. This coming weekend we have a family (my side) wedding out of town. When I asked him about it one last time, he told me he was not going to go. I didn't nag him previously about attending, but brought it up one other time. I told him that I hoped he would attend with me. He said this time, he really did not want to go. This is devastating to my sister and her husband and they see it as a slap in the face that he will not attend. I was pretty sure he was not going to go, and will attend any way with my girls.
I appreciate any and all advice. Thank you!!!
Thanks for the additional details. schak, I know you will probably think there is no way, but it is very unusual for a spouse to start behaving this way without there being an OW. Could this group of "gun club" friends involve a woman?
I am not trying to alarm you but the fact that you are not welcome is a huge red flag. I just went to my gun range (I am a member) last night. If my wife ever said "hey, its been a while since I went shooting, can I go to the range with you?", I would be all for it! So there is has to be a reason for his not wanting you there.
Also, the one night and two nights away, especially the one after returning after the gun club is another red flag that maybe there is an OW involved with the club. And don't be fooled by him asking you to leave. Wayward spouses are capable of all kinds of ruses. Most likely he knew there was no way you'd leave but he knew asking you to leave would throw you off the trail of what his "nights away" were really about.
I hope I am wrong about this, but my A radar went off with your most recent post.
Steve,
The possibility of an OW has been my gut feeling from the start. I have asked him about it more than once, and he has always denied it. I don't know how to prove one way or the other that there is another woman, without heading down crazy land and following him.
Any suggestions?
My H has wanted me to join him shooting in the past, but we differ greatly in our views about guns in general.
Just remain vigilant. It will eventually come to light. And they always deny it. Even in the face of proof. In my wife's EA i had a message from her to him clearly saying more had gone on and yet she still denied they were more than just friends singing on the internet together! So remember: believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.
The hardest part of all of this, is realizing how much of a part of the deterioration of the marriage I am responsible for, and now losing hope on how to fix it.
Still not sure if I initiate R talks at this point, try to get back to us sleeping together, or detach. I think it was my detachment that pushed us here to begin with.
It is scary! It is also bizarre to feel so scared after spending all of these years together.
We all go through that. In fact, we should start a seven steps to DBing list.
1) Self blame
2) Feeling like detachment will make us look like how we used to be
On your responsibility, yes, it takes two to get a marriage to this point. No doubt. However, you can't change the past. All you can do is from this moment forward be the spouse only a fool would leave.
On detachment, look up differentiation in marriage. Detachment isn't about cutting all contact, it is about not allowing his words and actions to cause you to react. Read the links Cadet sent you in his initial post in your thread. They are invaluable.
Lastly, that fear you mention in your last line shows you are too codependent. Please Google "differentiation in marriage". If you don't differentiate you will have no chance at saving at your MR, and worse, no chance of moving forward healthily.
Thanks again, Steve! It is so incredibly helpful writing about this and getting feedback.
I will revisit the posts about detachment and will certainly research differentiation in marriage. I have never heard of it. I know I have exhausted all reading material on the internet about MLC and "how to save your marriage if you are the only one who wants to."
I had never thought of myself being too codependent. My fears stem from my fear of a divorce from my husband and the subsequent fall out from that... change in family unit, possible change of home, lifestyle, etc.
Absolutely don't initiate R talks. There's no point at this point.
I strongly second Steve's comments on differentiation.
You said your husband had no other complaints, but if you dive deep, I bet you can identify exchanges you frequently have that end in bad feelings or frustration. I would pick one or two of those and work on doing a 180 on your part of those exchanges. There might be other things that you can think to change too.
Are you employed? If you're a SAHM with an H who gives every indication of having an affair, I would spend some time thinking about how you can support yourself in the future. Don't take steps without consulting a lawyer, but start researching options.
Hi Rose,
Yes, I am employed full time, with a secure job. In fact, my husband and my incomes are fairly comparable.
I will continue to dig deeper. I know he has commented that I rarely showed affection in the past, but this is similar to the sex-starved piece. Also that I did not want to go out as much as he did, as he is very social.
In my first attempts, I set up numerous couple dates for us, which went ok. I also made plans with friends on my own.
Also, he actually seemed more responsive when I was teary in our initial conversations.
Now that he is so shut off from me, I don't feel that I can set up any dates. I have been acting similarly cold to him at times, even though I am trying to stay positive and upbeat. It is so incredibly difficult!! I don't want to do a 180 showing only weakness; it might just not be in my nature, and it seems to go against Michelle's advice. I may have initiated aspects of the Last Resort Technique prematurely.
I will keep trying to delve into myself some more. I have reached out to a therapist, but have not yet had any meetings.
I hate to say this, but up until a few days ago, I was in your shoes, saying that there is no affair. Little did I know!
I am not saying that he is having an affair, but you need to keep your eyes open and you need to consider that this is a possibility. Have you thought about what you will do if he does have an affair?
In the meantime, while you have no proof, I suggest that if intimacy happens between the two of you at some point, you should seriously consider condoms.
***
I'm no expert, but I will say this: you shouldn't be cold, but you are right to have stopped crying.
Be cheerful. Be upbeat. Be happy. Happiness comes from within. Do not let him influence your mood. Minimize contact with him, but always be happy when he talks to you. NOT the "I'm glad you're talking to me" kind of happy. Rather, "I'm having a great day and I'm sharing this joy with the world" kind of happy.
But do not cry. Crying may bring about a momentary pang of guilt, but it will drive him away in the long run. People in MLC are incapable of sustained selfless emotional response - it is all about them and your tears soon become inconvenient and then they will begin inducing anger. So, I think you're right to have stopped crying around him.
Work on GAL. It doesn't have to be extremely social. Do a mix of individual and social tasks. Or, depending on where you are in life, apply single-minded focus to something you have been striving for. Your life is no longer about him. It is now about you - what you need and what you want.
Thank you for the advice, Olya.
As you know, much of this is so much easier said than done!
I don’t think quite honestly I can withstand an affair. Like I said in one of my last posts, it was my gut instinct from the start. Other than the wretched MLC symptoms, nothing else had really occurred with our relationship to warrant the huge changes in him. I just wish I could find some proof without resulting to snooping and becoming a crazy person.
I will continue to work on myself. It’s hard when your children are visibly upset with the situation and don’t understand it. They come to me only with questions and their concerns, and I barely get it myself!
The therapist I contacted called me back, and we set up a meeting about a week and a half from today. He would like me to ask the H to join us, and I told him I would ask him. I also informed him I was doubtful he would attend.
GAL process feels weird at first, but the more you do it, the easier it is going to be. Just love yourself enough to give yourself that first push.
Regarding goal posts... I don't know. I'm pretty sure that it is my goal post too. But does it matter? The goal is that if or when he walks out, he is not walking out on a broken woman. For me, it is also about agency and choice. I want to be in a position where I have a lot more say about whether the marriage goes forward or ends in divorce. Right now I have none. That will change.
So, if you think about it, this process is helpful no matter what happens.
Thank you everyone. I’m so grateful to have found this forum and to have found the courage to post. Your insights, advice, and suggestions are already greatly valued.
I was talking to my girls tonight about my new running group. I shared with them, although they could already see and knew, my love for it. This is a group of happy, positive people, who do nothing other than support and congratulate you on your efforts. It is such a welcome change from the doom and gloom of my H right now. Perhaps I will even run another marathon someday in the future!
Olya, I appreciate your insights about GAL. There are times when it feels awkward. I have relied too long on my husband and family for social plans and activities. I think it is easy for moms to do. I certainly don’t want to be broken and want a say in what happens with my marriage.
Does anyone have any feedback for me about counseling? I have never been...
I think it is probably exceedingly rare that someone uproots a long-term marriage without some sort of catalyst (i.e., OW). People generally don't walk away until they feel like they have something better to start walking towards.
I could have written your post at the start of my journey here. 20 years of marriage, never perfect but still considered us a typical, happy family for the most part. Then sudden changes, rewritten history, and H was convinced he was missing out on life out there. Swore up and down that it was nothing to do with an OW or anything like that...just him realizing he wasn't where he was supposed to be. Spoiler: there was an OW.
I hope for your sake that isn't the case in your situation, but it's a common scenario and they almost always deny their hearts out until they can't anymore.
There actually seems to be no evidence of an A. It almost seems like WH is depressed.
No outward wayward stuff, guy activities such as guns. And snoring which perhaps leads to sleep apnoea and deprivation.
Seems to me he is a walkaway with some sort of depression.
Walkaways are a completely different sitch to waywards.
Sandi 37 rules are great for repairing an R with a walkaway. These are the R that result in new renewed M. DB is great for that.
The sex starved thing is a tough one to overcome, have you been assessed on your hormonal levels etc? Might be worth looking into. Intimacy is very tough to rebuild but not impossible.
H was once very attracted to you, he M with you for 20 years so we know it was there once. So you get your vacation value vroom back for you. That's vital rework you for you. Then you will be the winner.
For the moment until you think or know otherwise treat H as a walkaway and DB. Those are my thoughts.
V
I found individual counseling immensely helpful, more helpful even than marriage counseling, although it means a lot to me that my husband was wiling to go.
I would not ask your husband to go with you to see your counselor. I would keep the focus on you. If he expresses a willingness to go to counseling, then you can find a marriage counselor at that point.
I agree that Sandi's rules are very helpful, except for #15. Maybe I just failed at implementing it, but during the day or two I tried, it made things worse.
DB is all about noticing the effect of your actions and making changes to improve things.
Thank you Everyone!
This weekend I traveled out of town with my girls to a wedding. My H did not want to go. It was awkward at first, to say the least! Sitting through a wedding ceremony when your own M is so dysfunctional was the most difficult part. My girls and I made the best of it, and ending up having a good time.
When we returned home yesterday, strangely enough, my H seemed to be my H from the past. He was not the, "Stone Man" as I so often refer to him these days. The push and pull is always difficult. I also know my sister and her husband took personal offense to his not attending. I didn't offer too many details about our time away, and tried to be upbeat in general.
I will remain observant regarding his behaviors. As you know, I have wondered about an OW, depression, MLC, or all of the above. So hard to prove any or all of it.
The counselor I found is a pro-marriage counselor. I had intended to go on my own. He wants me to ask H to join, just so that it doesn't feel like we might be ganging up on him, if he chooses to attend in the future. I dread asking him, as I am nearly certain he won't attend, and these rebukes start to take their toll.
This week I have several outings planned with friends after work. Certainly continuing to GAL!
I forgot to respond to Vanilla...
There is a history of early menopause in my family. Three years ago, at the age of 45, post hysterectomy, I did have blood work done. Both my FSH and estrogen levels were so low, I was diagnosed as post menopausal. I have been taking replacement estrogen, and have had numerous discussions regarding libido with my Ob/gyn. I finally am feeling like I am coming out of the dark in these regards! As you know, however, I'm hoping it's not too late for my M!
The counselor I found is a pro-marriage counselor. I had intended to go on my own. He wants me to ask H to join, just so that it doesn't feel like we might be ganging up on him, if he chooses to attend in the future. I dread asking him, as I am nearly certain he won't attend, and these rebukes start to take their toll.
Our MC suggested the same thing! And it worked, got her there and she has been back with me for every appointment since. The worst your husband can say is "no".
Vanilla,
What is vacation value vroom?
You know what happens on vacation?
With the sun on your skin making vitamin D. Change of scenery, hot bikini feeling good.
Getting the sun tan cream on.
Snuggling over ice cream,
Feeeeeelin good. Feeling sassy. Forget the snoring. Getting laid.
Finding that state, the vacation value.....
And I guess you know what vroom feels like.
V
I forgot to respond to Vanilla...
There is a history of early menopause in my family. Three years ago, at the age of 45, post hysterectomy, I did have blood work done. Both my FSH and estrogen levels were so low, I was diagnosed as post menopausal. I have been taking replacement estrogen, and have had numerous discussions regarding libido with my Ob/gyn. I finally am feeling like I am coming out of the dark in these regards! As you know, however, I'm hoping it's not too late for my M!
It is how you feel about you that counts most to me. Getting your sexy back is for you to feel great about you. To strut your stuff for the rest of your life.
V
Vanilla,
I love your responses!
Weeks ago, as I felt myself coming out of the fog, I headed to the mall with a good friend to buy new underwear! I did it mostly for myself, but was secretly hoping my H would take notice. I have had nothing but cotton Hanes for years. No longer!
This may be too much info for the men, but I love wearing my new purchases. Could we count this as a part of GAL? It is so small, but seems important to me!
Vanilla,
I love your responses!
Weeks ago, as I felt myself coming out of the fog, I headed to the mall with a good friend to buy new underwear! I did it mostly for myself, but was secretly hoping my H would take notice. I have had nothing but cotton Hanes for years. No longer!
This may be too much info for the men, but I love wearing my new purchases. Could we count this as a part of GAL? It is so small, but seems important to me!
I would definitely put the getting out and shopping in the GAL category! However, if you are wearing them for him then that is pursuit, so be careful.
Several years ago (I hope this isn't TMI) I read an article about how Hs could get their Ws to have sex more often. One of the suggestions was manscaping. So I tried it. She never even noticed. However, it did make me feel more confident so I've continued ever since.
Those who posted about this all being like a roller coaster ride weren't kidding! I'm continuing to make plans with friends, but at times all of the GAL feels so awkward and foreign. Hoping it gets better.
I have the first marriage counselor meeting this coming Tuesday. The MC wants me to invite H. I'm contemplating canceling it. I just know he is not going to go, and am afraid his refusal is going to upset me greatly.
Any thoughts appreciated.
I'll repeat my earlier advice--what you need at this stage is an individual counselor, not a marriage counselor.
I'd cancel this appointment and make an appointment for individual counseling. If you'd like to use this counselor for MC down the line, I'd find a separate counselor for IC.
Hi Rose,
I know you're right. On my low days I can fall into the trap of delusion.... Knowing that H won't attend is reason enough to cancel the appointment.
I did not end up canceling my appointment, but went for individual counseling, since I am floundering.
The counselor listened a lot, with the first meeting. After hearing it all he asked me if I wanted to truly salvage my marriage. I think he could tell the amount of resentment building up is getting difficult to take.
For example, H was gone nearly all weekend with shooting related activities. Sunday he was gone with no contact for 8 hours.. apparently shooting at more than one location. It's hard to talk to him in a civil way when he returns home in cases like this. Being upbeat was out of the questions, so I took my kids for ice cream. They had been asking me where he was earlier in the day, and I had to respond with, "I'm not sure." It is so unfair to them!!
IC asked me to write a list of marriage goals, similar to what Michelle has in her DR book. In reading that section again, I feel like we are too shaky to even go there. I think the IC wants me to realize just how bad things are. He told me also to stop doing any things for him, which I already had started to do. (Feels petty to sort through the laundry and only do mine, but it secretly feels ok too.)
This is all so confusing. The past 3 weeks H has been really checked out, and these are the weeks I have been trying to limit my contact. I am starting to realize why many of the LBS's initiate the D.
Any suggestions appreciated! Any suggestions to investigate possible OW as well?
Was your reaction to him being away a lot this weekend pretty typical, or was it a 180?
Honestly, I'm not sure why it was out of the question to be upbeat. Why couldn't you have a great weekend with your daughters and let him sort himself out? And is it really unfair to your daughters, or are you projecting? At 15 and 18, it doesn't seem like having a parent busy on a weekend would phase them.
Unless his being away left you with an unfair burden, I'd plan to GAL and have great weekends without him, and then be upbeat when you see him.
Hi Rose,
I appreciate your response and honesty. It makes me look harder at myself and my actions that are still too much a part of my feelings. I feel like I am failing at all of this, and trying too many things at one time. It is still all pretty fresh and my H's changes happened so quickly.
Two days ago, the bomb did drop. (More evidence of my not being a very good DBer, I feel). He told me he thinks we should separate. He thinks our lives are going in different directions. He pictures himself in his own house with lots of land, living on his own, with us sharing 50/50 custody. Upon hearing this, I stayed calm. I thanked him for finally communicating anything with me. We had a civil conversation where neither one of us were angry. He told me how hard all of this is for him as he still loves me and about what an amazing mother I am to our children. I reiterated calmly to him, that it wasn't what I would want. No blame was put on either person, we both agreed that during the past year or so, neither one of us made our marriage a priority.
We also discussed some realities... our daughter is graduating from high school this year, with many activities associated. We will be funding college next year. What might this look like for our financial future? I would not want to have to move our younger daughter our of our family home to support two homes. Needless to say, I don't think he has thought through any details. We agreed that neither of us would do anything right away.
We also agreed that for the time being any relations between the two of us needed to be cordial. Despite trying to be upbeat, these past 3 weeks, I did often find myself mirroring his coldness. The constant tension in our house was taking its toll on the kids.
So...now I need to re-read Detach threads. I have also done research on separation agreements, etc. I don't want to be blind sighted if /when things head in that direction.
I need to keep reminding myself this needs to be his journey and he needs to figure things out. It is so difficult.
Once again thank you for your honesty.
AH yes, he is in the typical WAS/H fog.
"He pictures himself in his own house with lots of land, living on his own, with us sharing 50/50 custody."
Even at 50/50 custody he likely will be paying child support. So he can have "his own house with lots of land" with a significant hit to his income? Maybe he can. But your paragraph above about the realities is a good one. WASs rarely consider anything that causes their fantasy to be interrupted.
Does he make enough money to pay support and live his dream?
Schak, one thing I often repeat about spouses that want to live on their own is this: A spouse doesn't need their own place to figure things out, or find themselves, or to decide what they want. A spouse needs to their own place to sleep with other people.
Remember, believe nothing he says and only half of what he does.
Oh, Steve, I totally agree. While I was calm during our conversation, please know I thought the exact same thing about his little house in the woods! Good grief!
In addition, the selfishness of the MLC spouse is unbelievable. We do NOT have the financial stability to fund our family home and his house in the woods. I think he envisioned us quickly selling our family home and then each buying new ones. When I mentioned to him about our younger daughter, it was quite clear, he had not given any thought to her or what she might want. Our conversation leads me to believe even more strongly that there must be an OW.
Certainly this forum is a great place to vent! Even though he didn't know it at the time, I walked away from the conversation realizing just how delusional he is right now.
Keep in mind, I do all of the bills and track the finances for our family.
I remember those conversations. H had mentally divided our assets and was apartment shopping. We talked about retirement, custody, everything.
There was no OW, although there was the hope for someone in the future.
Hang in there.
Please get L advice. Soonest.
Know your fin position to the cent.
My thoughts
V
Thanks Vanilla.
Even though it has just been 2 days, I have already begun to scour the internet researching finances. I have learned a lot about splitting assets and how to go about doing it. (Bank accounts, 401K's etc).
I have also researched divorce lawyers. I plan to attend at least 3 consultations, if not more.
I don't really know how to secure a good one. My close friends and family don't seem to know of anyone.
Any suggestions out there?
So I haven't posted in a few days. Things around the house have been much more civil. He is respecting the boundary to be at least cordial.
Some more evidence of the foggy H...
Today I am headed out of town with a great friend from high school. Strangely enough H offered to drive me to the airport two days ago. I was taken very much off guard. Yesterday me made sure he had my itinerary. He also did some work around the yard... things he hasn't done in a very long time.
This morning as H was leaving from work, he told me to have a great time and to text me when I arrived. Despite trying not to, I got a lump in my throat, since that was it. Always before if one of us went out of town, at least there would be a hug. I did not cry and did not ask for one. Twenty minutes later, he returned home, teary. He came to me and gave me several hugs, telling me he couldn't let me leave without one, and I had looked a bit upset earlier.
Good grief. I KNOW not to read too much into it. I KNOW IT! It's still hard not to.....
Yikes.. should have proof read that post. Hope you get the gist.
Reading about your situation it reminds me so much of mine in many ways. These are confusing times! Keep strong, enjoy your time with your friend. hugs!
I wish I had the wisdom to post on other people's threads. I feel I am still so new to this, I don't think I can yet give good advice.
I traveled out of town for 4 days with my best friend. For the most part, we had a good time, and talked a lot. What I did not expect was periodic moments of extreme sadness... about my current situation, traveling without any of my family, seeing happy couples, etc. It was hard at times.
Upon returning, my H and I ended up in a R talk. It was coming, despite my not wanting it to. I did shed a few tears. I'm still torn with that part of DB'ing. I have always been the stoic and strong one in our R, so this is a bit of a 180. I did not beg or plead though. He still thinks separation might be in our future, but has no plans to leave the house. I pointed out the devastation separation would bring to the family, and even to us financially. I shared the reality that everything gets split up... including retirement funds and pensions. This I could tell he had not even considered. Remember he fantasies about the house with a lot of land.
I think having him around is the hardest part. At the same time, financially it makes sense. As I mentioned before we have 2 kids nearing college age, one leaves this summer. Yikes!!
Trying to detach, still. I hate the mixed messages from him at times.
I love all of your feedback. I go again to my counselor next week and continue to investigate all of the legalities on my own. I have spoken with a mediator and a divorce financial planner. I have not yet secured a lawyer, but am feeling somewhat empowered with the knowledge I have gained.
It's so hard to not long for my life from years ago.
I wish I had the wisdom to post on other people's threads.
I feel I am still so new to this, I don't think I can yet give good advice.
That does not mean that you can not post on other threads.
You never know what advice you might be able to give that might pertain to your job or something else.
Just saying you read something and support them is sometimes a good thing.