part 12 We have friends from out of town visiting, very last minute so I didn't have any time to mentally prepare for their arrival. They have children very close in age to ours so it ended up being fairly smooth.
Tonight I get home and WH and I get in a flight while the visitors are out at the beach. I told WH I knew he was up to no-good on his phone again (found evidence he is, in the very least being inappropriate with another female at his work) and that he is an @[censored] and a bad father. He called me worthless and he only had sex with me out of pity in the past. Then he told me to die from the STD he gave me. There was more back and forth but that was really the worst of it. I told him I was done playing nice and wanted him out sooner rather than later. He left with DD7 and DS5 to take them to a play place and left the kids with me.
I've never thought of him as evil before but I think that may be an appropriate adjective now. Who tells the mother of his children to die from an STD he gave her? I have no idea who this monster is. My hands are still shaking and I think I may have to find a way to go completely dark after our divorce. I can use a parenting talk app to coordinate all our communication post divorce. I am not healthy when near him. I am seriously considering unleashing my 6'1 cousin on him and let him finally beat his @ss. He's been beggin for at least a year now to "make him finally cry."
(((Psysara)))
You are only realizing he is evil now???
No contact, gray rock.
Realize that any one capable of the cheating, betrayal, lies and gaslighting has to be void of empathy. They are only nice when you have someting of value to them.
MLC, regret, foo issues are all excuses we like to project onto them because many of us here are not capable of that type of cruelty and its hard to understand that people are actually that empty, narcissistic, sociopathic, etc.
Best to not take it personally. You wouldn't expect kindness from an alligator right? Dont expect it frim them, unless it serves their needs. Yiu are dealing with extreme end of spectrum selfishness.
PsySara,
That's awful. Seriously, you and I should put out a vote here to decide which of our husband's hurtful statements should be the winner. Mine says we should have aborted our daughter. Yours says to die of an STD. Maybe it's a tie?
Everyone has fights and says things they don't mean. Usually an apology is issued in normal cases and usually the comments are not cruel to that extent.
I guess if anything your husband is making the divorce easier by not giving you anything to miss.
I really, really hope you get through this soon and can find peace. Take care and keep us posted.
part 12 We have friends from out of town visiting, very last minute so I didn't have any time to mentally prepare for their arrival. They have children very close in age to ours so it ended up being fairly smooth.
Tonight I get home and WH and I get in a flight while the visitors are out at the beach. I told WH I knew he was up to no-good on his phone again (found evidence he is, in the very least being inappropriate with another female at his work) and that he is an @[censored] and a bad father. He called me worthless and he only had sex with me out of pity in the past. Then he told me to die from the STD he gave me. There was more back and forth but that was really the worst of it. I told him I was done playing nice and wanted him out sooner rather than later. He left with DD7 and DS5 to take them to a play place and left the kids with me.
I've never thought of him as evil before but I think that may be an appropriate adjective now. Who tells the mother of his children to die from an STD he gave her? I have no idea who this monster is. My hands are still shaking and I think I may have to find a way to go completely dark after our divorce. I can use a parenting talk app to coordinate all our communication post divorce. I am not healthy when near him. I am seriously considering unleashing my 6'1 cousin on him and let him finally beat his @ss. He's been beggin for at least a year now to "make him finally cry."
Hi Sara,
I'm so sorry to read this. As if you are not going through enough right now that to have to deal with more disrespect and drama from him. Sigh. Your H seems to seriously lack introspection. Does this make him an actual narcissist? I am not the psychiatrist here, but it does seem that he is somehow unable to look at himself or inside himself. It seems in your sitch, the only time he has been able to change his behavior is when he finally accepted that yes, he could really lose you.
It seems tho, that with each time he realizes he is losing you, it takes him longer and longer to reach to that point. It's almost as if he becomes increasingly desensitized to the process. My thoughts are that this time, even though you are following through with the D process, it will yet again taken him even longer. Longer to realize he is losing you and longer to actually do something about it. He is somewhat predictable in my mind. This time, he may need to be living on his own for some months, or have another A that burns itself out, before realizing what he is missing and essentially ruining with you (and your family together).
Will you wait for that time? Or will you give him another chance I should say? My sense is you won't and you are serious this time. I see that you are reflecting on the past, what you want and deserve, and even grieving the loss of what could have been. That all sounds like the right and healthy path to me :-) So perhaps it is time to give up on getting any intel or reacting to what he is doing? Can you just assume that he is flirting, being inappropriate and attention seeking? Sometimes letting go of the mystery and accepting the worst helps. I just worry about your stress level and your heart (literally and figuratively!). You mentioned the fight with him started when you called him out on his behavior. Maybe in his mind that even fed his ego a bit (Sara still pays attention to me and cares) ...
If he does "change" his behavior and come back around, is it too late for you? Or maybe I should ask, when will it be too late for you? Like I said, he always does come back to you eventually, it just takes him longer and longer (and more and more action from you) to get there. And when he does come back, he does show you positive changes. Why don't they stick is the big question?
My concern is not if you will be okay, because you are so strong, intelligent and insightful, I have no doubt you will be fine, with or without him! My concern is what will happen when he finally does come back around this time. Because while his behavior changes, he doesn't actually do the hard work. It doesn't seem (yet) that he has really looked inside and been able to grow and make changes that are genuine and long lasting. I think you deserve that and so much more!
Blu
At this point I want to knee cap him and tear his tender parts off and feed them to piranhas.
It's actually quite nauseating to read your posts. I know that's not helpful.
Yes it is evil, if he meets the DSM criteria it is referred to as anti social personality disorder.
If you want more disgusting things these horrid cheating scumbag say try 'I would be better off if you were dead' and 'your father should smother your mother. It's easy I should know', 'Don't fall out of that (fourth floor) balcony window the local police will just think you were drunk'.
Oh and try 'I only gave you gonorrhoea' you can take antibiotics for that said to one pregnant woman.
The mask has really fallen, was this the much needed spell break, or does he have to go even further for you to be told by him?
V
PsySara,
That's awful. Seriously, you and I should put out a vote here to decide which of our husband's hurtful statements should be the winner. Mine says we should have aborted our daughter. Yours says to die of an STD. Maybe it's a tie?
Everyone has fights and says things they don't mean. Usually an apology is issued in normal cases and usually the comments are not cruel to that extent.
I guess if anything your husband is making the divorce easier by not giving you anything to miss.
I really, really hope you get through this soon and can find peace. Take care and keep us posted.
Nicole I recollect this remark very well. Some things once said can NEVER be unsaid. It's permanently tattooed on ones brain in vivid ink.
I do not believe in forgiveness, there is the wonderful state of detatchment and indifference, referred to as Meh. It's a zenith place where you can't be bothered, and it goes in and out of one's head without staying.
A place of that is interesting, next thing.
Sometimes this behaviour surprises me, and after my experience I never thought that would happen.
V
Juju,
I rarely refer to anyone as evil as I work with a lot of personality disordered people. Oftentimes defense mechanisms can cause them to lash out. But this...this takes the cake. Good saying though, not to expect different from an alligator.
Nicole,
I've often scoffed at the "pain olympics" but I do think you and I are tied for the gold, lol!
Blu,
I'm done. I am 100% sure I can't ever take him back. Even if he were struck by lightening and had a "come to Jesus" moment I could never un-remember him wishing me death. I was like the last flickering bulb just went out when he said that. I find myself repulsed by him. This week he has gone overboard with parenting. He is buying the kids all these toys, taking them out on special trips, buying all their meals and it's...so disgusting to me. His hypocrisy is so blatant and naked that I can only feel disgust and contempt for him. The snooping was almost accidental, the wife of the couple that came to visit mentioned seeing him do snapchat round the house and thought it was with me. When I told her I don't have snapchat her face fell. Later she took me aside with concerns because she saw WH expression and knew he was interacting with a female. I logged into his activities and it was confirmed. All this did was bolster my resolve to get him the heck out of my house sooner rather than later. It didn't even hurt as much as make my anger at his disrespect flare up.
Vanilla,
The mask has never fallen off so completely before but it's like I am looking at a stranger. I can't even feel attraction when he puts on his cologne. (previously I found this irresistible) Now I am grossed out because all I can picture is him schmoozing up to some floozy and catching another disease.
Tonight we sit down and tell DD7 and DS5 that we will be divorcing. I am sick with dread at how they will react. It can't be put off anymore because WH works the rest of thsi week (will come home late) and DD7 has to attend the mandatory aftercare class this Saturday. DD7 has been unusually withdrawn this weekend and I wonder if she is sensing this separation? Meanwhile I've been fielding interviews to change jobs and dealing with schedule juggling. (Nicole, I know you've asked about decreasing hours but my job is only full time, I am looking to do outpatient instead of inpatient though, likely to give me more days off)
Wish me luck friends. And please say a prayer for my perfect, beautiful and precious children. May Allah make this as painless as possible.
It's going to be ok because you will make it so.
Prayers are prayers and you are in mine.
V
Sara, I hope the talk with your daughters went well. Maybe you can also have one-on-one talks with them in the next few days to hear how they're feeling. It's not easy for any of you, but it's nice that you have three kids and you can all support each other. It's difficult and scary and unfair but I have no doubt your kids will see the truth as they get older and will understand and support you in your decision to do what's best for them.
Talking to my kids was one of the worst days of my life. I survived it and you will too.
Keep in mind that kids see and experience this very differently than we do. Dwell on that. Don't project adult heartbreak onto them.
Be well, Sara. It can only get better from here on out.
Well the talk never happened, WH came home late and fell asleep. So I decided to take her to the class that is legally required and see if it sinks in. It didn't. lol I've always said my DD7 has the memory of a goldfish, she just kind of swims around doing her thing. I carefully asked her afterward if she had any questions, she said no and asked if we could go get a happy meal. On the way there I asked her what the class was about and she said, "About feelings and stuff, I made some crafts." Talk about anticlimatic.
I found out that WH has not done his parenting class nor submitted his financial affidavit. Last night I pointed out that he could be found in contempt and thrown in jail. He basically scoffed as if I were making this up. Around 10:30 I saw him in my doorway, he stared a bit and then went back to the kid's room to sleep on the floor. (not sure why he is doing this since the kids have been crashing in my bed and we have a spare room with an en-suite bathroom)
I barely speak to him and breathe a sigh of relief when he is not here. I try to find some positive emotion towards him but still come back to repulsion. I know he is communicating with someone on Snapchat and it's not appropriate. He's changed his passcode on his phone and he spends a lot of time grooming. But still...repulsion. I find it interesting that before this would have sent me into a tailspin and led to more "pick me" behavior from me. Now, I am just glad his attention is elsewhere and I can just focus on me and the kids. Not sure if this is detachment or distaste.
I really admire the way you are handling this situation.
I cannot imagine how much self control it takes not to explode. I am really proud of you. I am still stunned by the words your husband said to you...How dare you talking that way to the mother of your children and wishing her to die... meanwhile he is totally passive in that divorce proceeding, that's really weird because it was something he wanted since many years, to be free.
His lack of reaction is getting me worried in the sense, I fear for your safety, I hope he is not going to do something to you or the kids. IMO, I think he thought you were not going to pursue the D and it was just another threat, and now he is worried not about you or the kids but how it is going to influence his life and his own image in regard of others. Reality is crashing in front of his eyes and it's too much to handle and it doesn't match his fantasy at all, he is having a crash course about what his new life is going to be and it's not what he thought it would have been. La la land is going down the drain.
Communicating with someone is just a way to have his ego stroked and having some kind of positive feedback, and may be also to enable some kind of reaction from you.
Sleeping on the floor.. he is playing the poor puppy... trying to inspire some pity from you or the kids...
Stay strong, I hope you don't have too much time to wait for your D to be finalized, because leaving that way is a lot of stress.
His lack of reaction is getting me worried in the sense, I fear for your safety, I hope he is not going to do something to you or the kids.
i too worry about your safety... your situation is odd... there is a lot of conflict, a lot of animosity... anger on both ends... maybe even hatred from his side... and that you two are living together while going through a divorce that he doesn't seem to really want, yet, at the same time, doesn't want to be married... it all just worries me... it's a different situation than the others on this board who are living together while going through the divorce process...
my two cents...
--artista
I have a bench in my garden and I am sending it to you. He can sleep on that, it's popular with waywards these days.
I am also worried in case there is a powder keg reaction.
I recollect the G had several tactics he used to use
Poor poor me then sulk
It's all your fault then anger
Staring NC then dark horrible ugly words
Be very very careful, safety first ok? If you need to get away then do so.
I absolutely know that once it hits the abuser that you are really really done then these three roll into one powerball of intimidation.
Hugs
V
I pointed out ...
I try to find some positive emotion towards him ...
I know he is communicating with someone ...
he spends a lot of time grooming.
You have to stop doing the above. Detach, detach, detach. Let him go.
I asked [D7] what the class was about and she said, "About feelings and stuff, I made some crafts." Talk about anticlimatic.
IMHO most kids at that age they don't care all that much what's going on between Mommy and Daddy. They just want both parents to stay engaged in their lives, even if separately.
Yes, parents being together is optimal. But separate isn't as horrific as we parents imagine it to be. Still scuks.
Hi Sara,
Has your husband done anything at all to work on the divorce? I can't believe he's ignored all these important steps. That could affect his career if he goes against the law, couldn't it? I hope something happens soon so you can move on and start to feel some relief.
WE had the case management hearing on Wednesday. WH thought we'd drive together but I informed him...no. I got there very early and chatted on the phone with my cousin (he just had an emergency appendectomy.) WH arrived just as the courtroom doors opened. He sat next to me and then awkwardly wished me a happy birthday. Sigh. Then after about 5 mins of weird silence he asked if he should move somewhere else, I told him it was up to him. My lawyer arrived and sat on the other side of me. Two long hours dragged by and finally we were the last couple called in.
The judge asked if WH had representation, WH mumbled (extremely annoying, chronic issue) and the judge asked him to speak up. He stated he was pro se and the judge asked for his financial disclosure. WH stated he was so busy he had not had time to consolidate the paperwork. The judge was displeased. He frowned at WH and advised him to communicate directly with my lawyer since he felt pro se was the way to go. He also court ordered the financial disclosure to be submitted within 15 days. He then asked if WH had done his parenting course and WH fumbled through his folder and produced the certificate. The judge asked WH how the kids were dealing with the divorce and WH responded, "Oh they're just babies, they are oblivious." To which the judge's frown deepened and he said, "Your daughter is seven and one of your son's is five, they are not babies and they are absorbing more than you realize." WH just nodded with embarrassment and stayed silent.
The judge asked about our jobs and what we did. He then turned to my lawyer and asked where we stood, she told him she had filed for default and wanted to proceed with a court date or to have WH and I mediate and sign on the bottom line (effectively making us legally D.) He said we had until June 15th to sort it or we would have another case management hearing. He then asked me how I felt the children were doing, I told him they were starting to ask some questions and I felt they sensed something. The judge turned to my WH and said, "I agree, Mr. WH, you need to realize they are no longer 'babies' and pay more attention to them." I literally bit my lip to keep from laughing in his face.
Afterward WH and I talked to my lawyer and she gave WH her card so he could submit his financial affidavit to her to file to the courts. While walking out WH asked if I had birthday plans for the evening and I told him probably not. He then said he wanted to go out with his friends to "decompress." I had to stop myself from rolling my eyes.
I left and picked up lunch to have with my cousin. I spent the afternoon with him (dozing on and off) and then went to a job interview at 3pm. When I returned home WH was getting out of the shower and left very quickly to go golfing with his friends. I spent a lovely evening with my kids and went to bed early snuggled up with them. This has to rank as one of the more weird birthdays of my life.
Sara, Happy Birthday! I guess at least your husband's actions (or lack thereof) have been exposed and he can no longer ignore the divorce proceedings. I'm glad you wanted to laugh, sigh, roll your eyes, etc.. rather than cry and sob. I'm sure your husband knows he's the loser in this situation. At least your kids have you and you have them.
Don't be surprised if he comes back with yet another olive branch for reconciliation... Be prepared... How will you handle it? Each time you come back from a failed attempt at reconciliation, you emerge more broken than before... Please be careful with your heart...
Happy birthday dear Sara,
Reality is getting into his face... IMO he thought you were going to drop the proceeding at one point before the hearing (his total lack of preparation) because you never followed previously with it. Also, his answers to the judge showed how self-centered he is.
He is just starting to realize that you are no longer under his control/power, and that's a big shock, he had been the one controlling "the situation" those past few years, deciding to cheat, to leave, to stay, to give the silent treatment, to live as a single guy but being served...
It was a tough birthday, but it's the first day toward your new freedom.
You are not alone, you will soon realize that once he is gone, your social life is going to improve a lot. You will be able to invite friends/family over without thinking about what he might do or say. Your home is really going to be your peaceful retreat not a place with that constant dark cloud.
I wish you best luck for your interview, and hope it works for you.
So my snooping has shown that WH has stopped the inappropriate behavior or just taken it deeper underground. Ask me if I care? Nope. On the D front he has still not done his side of the work, he has until Thursday to submit his financial disclosure or be found in contempt. He had 5 days off to get it done but just...did nothing. This is incredibly frustrating for me because the longer this drags out the more money I pay.
Meanwhile he continues to just be his moody self. My home feels like there is an alien in it, I can't relax because he is here. I have moments where I feel waves of sadness that my marriage has died and I will be a single parent. I am still grieving the loss of my dream, of raising my children in a loving home with both their parents. But I can say with absolute honesty that I tried 150% to find a solution. I can't force a partner to stay and be a husband and a father. He has made his choices and appears to be at peace with the consequences. (shrug)
Meanwhile he continues to just be his moody self. My home feels like there is an alien in it, I can't relax because he is here.
Perhaps when he mentioned to you at the court that maybe he should move out, you should have said, "yes, I think that would be best," instead of telling him it was up to him... You would not have to walk on eggshells all of the time...
He didn't ask to move out, he asked if he should have moved to another bench instead of sitting next to me. I have asked him repeatedly to move out but he has made it clear that he will not move until the divorce is final. I asked my lawyer about this and she said it's not legal to force him out until the divorce is final. Even then I have to give him a 30 day notice to vacate.
I am trying to avoid arguments in front of my children to diminish the damage. I could not care less about hurting his feelings or angering him, I just don't want my children feeling like they are living in a battle ground.
Your way of dealing with him is the right way, somehow you want him to understand that you are "over" and won't take anymore of his b...s...but at the same time you still have to protect your kids from that mess he created. Taking the high road is extremely difficult but that the right one, it won't give him any bullets against you for the divorce.
Right now, you are negotiating most probably the biggest business deal of your life because it will impact your life and your kids' life for many years to come. Stay strong and avoid his baits.
I hope the proceeding won't last too long and you can finally find peace.
By the way, how did you do at your job interview?
Hello friends. So WH finally saw our CPA to do his financial affidavit. Never mind it was supposed to be submitted to the court about 20 days ago. He is being cordial and we have the bizarre situation of waking at 4:30 to eat subhr together before we start fasting for Ramadan. He has gone out each evening and bought our food to break fast as I am at zero and can't find the energy to cook after 15 hours of fasting. The nanny feeds the kids dinner before heading out for the day so they're covered.
I am just biding my time until this D is final so he can move out and I can start healing. As long as he's here I keep getting twinges of hope that he will have some kind of wake up call. But he has shown me through his actions and inactions that he will simply blame others any time he is not happy and seek outside validation to make himself feel better. I could never be safe with a person who cannot look within and confront his short comings.
The kids have one more week of school and then summer break begins. I already have the two older ones signed up for summer camp where they will have a fantastic time. They've gone there before and come home each evening tanned, fed, and exhausted. Not much else to report here, just regular status quo.
Sara,
It's good to hear your update. That's wonderful you're fasting. I hope it'll serve as part of your healing process. It's odd that your husband is fasting given everything else we know about him!
I hope things progress smoothly for you. Will you have to go back to court or will the divorce be finalized by mail when your husband sends his affidavit?
I'm also curious to know how Islam's rules for divorce have influenced you or your husband.
Islam is one of the few (only?) religions that basically outlines the rights of a wife to initiate divorce is necessary. It is very protective over her property and also required child support and even alimony upon divorce. (this was decreed 1400 years ago)
If our divorce is not settled by June 15th then we have to return for a case management hearing where WH would have to explain the hold up. I texted WH this morning and reminded him that June 15th was Eid and it would s*ck if we have to waste a holiday in court. He assured me he submitted the financial affidavit and it should be completed and finalized before June 15th. If that's true then we will be officially divorced by June 15th, I'm crossing my fingers but trying not to rage too much at WH's snail-like pace.
All in all I am vacillating between sadness, apathy, anger, irritation and yearning for this to be done with this process. I'll be honest, I am rather disappointed that I sunk so much into this process and did not bust this divorce. Part of me feels I wasted 2 years on a selfish narcissist when I could already be waaay further along in my healing. I am not sure MWD technique takes into consideration that a lot of walk-aways/MLC/Cheaters are personality disordered and therefore doomed to fail at working on themselves. And let's be honest, if the cheater cannot gain insight then what's the point? They will just fall back on old behaviors and cheat again. Anyone who seeks constant external validation lacks the ability to grow and mature. My WH still pins his cheating on whatever he felt he could not get from me. The fact is there are a lot of unhealthy marriages where both spouses kept sex inside the marriage. As long as WH blames his lack of integrity on me, the chance of cheating is high. Heck, if I burn dinner then he can just go and cheat. If I get hurt/sick/disabled then he can go cheat. I wonder if the majority of DB'ers are simply in denial that they are married to sociopaths. Do we simply enable them by rewarding bad behavior with wonderful spouses? How does that make us safe from the same violation reoccurring?
I am not sure MWD technique takes into consideration that a lot of walk-aways/MLC/Cheaters are personality disordered and therefore doomed to fail at working on themselves. ... Do we simply enable them by rewarding bad behavior with wonderful spouses? How does that make us safe from the same violation reoccurring?
I agree that many cases that show up here involve a spouse with deep-seated psychological issues that can't be solved by 180/GAL/do-what-works/etc.
But being a wonderful spouse isn't the same as enabling them. It's to be a healthy individual with boundaries.
Psy,
Just caught on the last threads.
My kids are happy and know they are loved. They need your time and love and you will give them that. They will be fine - trust me.
Do what you feel you need to do and forget the rest.
Will catch up soon.
Keep strong - exercise when you can. It's the best thing for this IMHO. Eat well and try to sleep as much as you can.
Surfer.
hello, PsySara... how are you these days? hoping you are experiencing some needed and deserved peace... do you have special plans with the kiddies this summer? keep in touch, please...
--artista
Sara,
Still thinking about you and the kids...hope you are well.
I also hope PsySara is doing well. Does anyone here have contact with her in real life? It would be so nice to know that she's ok. She's been through so much. I hope she's gone from this forum because she's out building a great new life for herself and her kids but it's troubling when such a good person just disappears.
Hello friends! There have been some major changes and I wanted to make sure they were stable before I came and gave an update.
So we were a few days away from divorce and I was very detached and had started to look forward to an independent life. WH had found a house a few blocks away so the kids could stay local and take the same bus to school. WH politely asked me if I could accompany him to check out the house and we could kick around our thoughts. I was very "ok" with this as I no longer clung to the hope of reconciliation. We were still fasting as it was Ramadan, it was the end of the day after work so we were both weak with low energy. As we walked through the house (it was still being refurb'd and thus the owner left to run an errand while we explored) WH looked around. Then he stopped. He was staring off into space and looked rather pale and start to perspire. I asked if he was ok because I thought the fasting was taking it's toll and maybe he was going to pass out.
He looked at me with dead eyes and said, "I f*cked up, didn't I?" I just raised an eyebrow and nodded. He suddenly sat down and said, "What have I done? I've destroyed our lives. I am destroying my children's stability, I've betrayed your trust and then...Ye Allah, I've literally broken your heart, Sara." I kind of stared at him with a strange lack of emotion. A year ago my heart would have leapt at this sort of breakthrough but in all honesty I felt suspicious. WH asked if we could go somewhere and talk? I said, sure.
So we drove to a store an sat in the car and talked for the next few hours. WH asked if there was anything left in me to consider saving our marriage. I was frankly honest and told him I was extremely doubtful. He said he would be willing to anything, jump through endless hoops, submit to any demands I would make. I told him I felt like I had given him endless guides in the past and he had refused to follow through to rebuild our destroyed marriage. I told him when faced with the financial responsibility of parenting after divorce that suddenly I don't appear so bad of an option. Instead of becoming defensive he instead validated my emotions. He said he was thinking back at the 2 years of hell he had put me through and the shame was awful. He apologized for over an hour, mentioning offenses specifically, and said he would spend the rest of his life trying to make it up to me.
I told him I needed to think.
I made an appointment with my DBing coach and laid this at his feet. I was blunt in that I felt dead inside when it came to thinking about WH. That I wasn't sure I could ever feel a shadow of love for this man who had destroyed me so coldly. So DBing coach told me to view this as dating, I could walk away at any time but to see if this "new guy" could win me, To make WH win me like a new love, not win back "The wife." So I decided to try one last time. I told WH what I wanted.
1. I wanted to be wooed, to feel like a girlfriend and not a wife. (if that makes sense)
2. I wanted an more even split with household finances and no longer be 85% of the bill payer
3. Household chores need to be split more fairly, same goes for child care
4. I no longer was going to be the person making all the plans, WH had to plan away trips
5. If I decided that I could feel some "spark" again the maybe I would let WH buy me a new ring to symbolize a new marriage.
There was a lot more but so far WH has spent two months being consistently compassionate, receptive and gentle. He smiles constantly and asks me every day what he can do, how I am feeling, what do I want. He texts me at work, calls me often and has removed contacts from his phone that I was uncomfortable with. He doesn't push or insist I show acceptance or mention an end to this trial. He says he is perfectly content to wait forever. While I don't feel a "spark" I am starting to enjoy his presence. I am am feeling calm and at peace with him. We joke and goof around, we talk a lot. Slowly but surely I find the tight fist in my gut un-knotting. There is a lot of progress to make, frankly WH is doing 99% of the work and I am just sitting back and watching.
So that's my update, friends. Thoughts? Opinions? 2x4s? lol
Hi PsySara, I'm happy to hear your news. Envious too. It's kind of amazing what it took for your husband to realize what he's done. It must have been amazing when he was finally sorry! By now you're an expert on how to handle this so surely you'll be cautious and realistic. Do you think your husband has had a deep enough revelation that he'll stop cheating in the long term? Maybe no one knows but I always wonder if someone who has cheated several times can change. I hope it's a yes. Maybe he'll never be perfect and you can never trust him 100% but if you can have a decent life together with your kids and you get back to trusting him 90% that's still better than divorce. If you read the beginning of the original MWD book, Divorce Remedy, you'll be glad you're giving your husband this final chance. I encourage you to buy and read it when you're having a bad day or aren't sure if you're doing the right thing. I hope you can figure out an exact science for how to prevent this from happening again, to the best of your ability, and I hope everything keeps going in the right direction!
Sara, read thru your sitch. Wow you have been thru hell with this WH. You are a strong woman and a great mother and honestly IMHO he doesn’t deserve you, sorry. Do not make it easy, there is a pattern with him. Whenever he gets scared he comes back. Do you know it is different this time? What does your gut say? Proceed very very slowly, make him prove his changes . I would be very weary of this awakening but you are the best judge of your own sitch
You deserve to be happy, see if he still can make you happy do not give him the power to hurt you again
Good luck keep us posted - arshi
I just want you and the children to be safe.
V
thank you for the update... please keep us posted... everyone here wants what is best for you...
Wow. I've seen it more than once, last minute turnarounds. Somehow once you've actually let go they know.
Sounds like you have your feet on the ground.
I guess no one really knows the future. No matter what happens, every one here is rooting for you. You are strong enough to handle anything and smart enough to prepare for different outcomes. Time will reveal a lot. I hope you guys can invest in some really good counselling in the future.
Good luck!
Wow. That's great news, and I hope he remembers how much he has to lose.
Honestly I am all counseled out. I've been to 2 IC and part of the problem is, I am trained in all of the techniques. I am more of a solution focused based person and there is a lot of emotion focused therapy that starts to turn into so much navel gazing. So I start to feel like it's money and time wasted. The best counseling I received in all this was the DBing and I can always buy some more sessions for touch ups if necessary.
WH wants to go to IC and I've left him to his own devices. I personally have reached a point where I am largely healed from all of this madness and want to just continue moving forward. I told WH if I have any questions or reservations about behaviors that I find worrisome it will be addressed immediately. No longer will I simply put them in the background until the "right time" comes along to address them. No longer will I tolerate poor boundaries or disrespect.
He has provided complete and utter transparency. Paradoxically I don't feel the need to snoop anymore. His behavior is a very indication of where his head is at. If I start to feel anxious and like I need to spy on him then there's my answer, this will not work. The D is literally frozen right now and we have until October to decide which way to go with this. My lawyer assures me if I decide the D was the right decision then we can move forward it be completed in mere weeks. WH has turned in his financial affidavit and everything is done on his end. It really is up to me.
So I am letting time and his actions show me if he's worth reconciling with. I feel completely relaxed. I don't have nightmares anymore, I don't fret if he's a bit late coming home (though he texts and calls me constantly to alert me if work ran late.) When they tell you that you must be willing to lose the marriage to save it, that was serious. It's weird because I feel like that marriage IS dead. That this is something different. Not better necessarily but very different. It's like when you're dating and finding out if this person is a "keeper." I don't have any expectations so I am at peace.
I am still concerned it's hoovering behaviour. You will know it's your sitch.
V
I pray he gets the help he needs. Honestly Sara, I have never seen a walkaway cheating spouse who has been kind of cruel to get so many chances. I pray he finds his way and his cycle does not repeat. He really has no idea how fortunate he is.
Sara, I am so glad you came back and updated! You are a strong woman and I know you will fine with or without this M! I think that piece is also key for the R to ever be successful. It took me some time after my H came back to realize that, and I think that component (breaking the codependency) is how we begin to create and new R with someone. Gotta run. Please keep posting!
Blu
Things are continuing to proceed smoothly. WH and I are both a bit overworked (I am moving to another job that lets me work 7 on 7 off for even more pay, yay!) so we mostly just collapse on the couch in the evenings. WH has started to take the advice of my DBing coach and has started spending more time with male friends. Our neighbor is a retired marine and they both have a love of bikes. They go out riding together sometimes and basically just talk guy stuff. WH has bloomed with this healthy relationship. I notice he doesn't try to be the "nice guy" to his coworkers (particularly to females) and overall his confidence has grown in a healthy manner.
Unfortunately because of our work hours we haven't got to spend a lot of time just one-on-one. This week WH wants to sit down with me so we can carve out some time to re-establish intimacy. He knows my LL is Quality Time and he wants to make sure I am getting my emotional needs met. He scheduled himself for a lot of extra shifts to pay off our taxes but as of September he's cutting back to his regular hours. We did manage to have a good amount of family time last weekend. We swam in our pool, ate good food and did some online shopping. WH noticed I was oogling some Louboutins and he surprised me by buying them. I've never owned shoes so expensive so I am almost too intimated to wear them out, lol!
Things aren't perfect but they are good. We still argue over little stuff (chores, kid time, finances) but our method of disagreement has changed dynamics. WH is not defensive and even sometimes shows more patience than I do. He is respectful to me and when I start to shut down he reaches out to make sure he is doing whatever necessary to meet me where I am at. I think when/if I can lower my walls we may reach piecing in the future.
Hi Sara, I have been reading your threads thoroughly for the last 2 weeks. I find some similarities in our sitches, our post partum coping with BD, pressures of working hectic full time jobs, single parenting small children and what I love about you is your inner strength. I am right now emotionally where you were about 2 years ago, but I relate to that woman, that supermom who puts her children first and that LBW who wants to give it what it takes to make it work.
I read your thread today and I see the real ‘letting go’ evolution, if you go back to your sitch in sep 2016, you were trying to let go, to be detached but now the real detachment comes through.
When you have time if you can go thru my threads and give me input I will be thankful
I respect the person you are, your grit, your determination, your resilience. To put her children’s needs before her is a great mother and you are one
I know life has dealt you harsher blows than anybody should have to endure but well like you have said yourself you are a diamond now. Hugs to the kiddos and you. Hope your WH someday raises himself to your level
- arshi
PsySara, that all sounds good. Congratulations on the new job! It's also good to hear the realism in your update about the small arguments and challenges of being busy but still being responsive to each other and understanding each other's needs. It seems like life together doesn't need to be perfect in order to continue reconciling. If you can sustain a functional life together where you enjoy being together most of the time and both contribute in ways that make the other happy then that would be wonderful.
Just out of curiosity, were you ever able to understand any of the psychology behind your husband shutting down and being so hostile previously? Did he seem to reveal anything he learned about himself when he was begging for you back?
Hi Sara,
So glad to hear there are more positives overall. I admire your tenacity and perseverance. I continue to pray for you that things come to an acceptable level for you and your family.
Hello friends! Things have been progressing really well on my end. WH's turnaround has been nothing short of a miracle. A HUGE test was put in front of us, we went to visit his family. Historically this usually results in disaster and he regresses into his mean, selfish patterns. But this time he was completely present with me at all times, was constantly touching base with me to make sure I was not overwhelmed or cornered by an intrusive relative. (MIL and SIL) We talk a lot now about deep stuff. We also laugh and joke a lot, he faces our conflicts instead of avoiding them and retreating. Sometimes something triggers me about his past affair and he becomes very attentive. He lets me work through stuff verbally. He apologizes a lot. He has come to realize how the affair devastated me and caused significant physical and emotional damage. He assures me he will spend the rest of his life making it up to me. I, in turn, don't use his mistakes as leverage. As long as he keeps strong boundaries and works on our connection, he is worthy of forgiveness.
I have worked on a lot of my interactions with him and the children. DBing has even resulted in a better interaction with my two older children. I look back over the last three years and am amazed at how far we've come. It took so much time and patience but it has definitely paid off.
I now have started a job that works 7 days on and 7 days off. WH and I are working the same weeks so we have a lot of quality time. We have started fishing together and going on drives. Part of my GAL will be learning to ride a motorcycle soon. My small goals are things like learning stick shift, toning my body at the gym and spending more time one on one with my kids. Last week, 1 day before DS5 birthday, we signed the papers to stop the divorce and cancel it all together. We have successfully busted the divorce. Now we are in piecing and I am so hopeful for our future. I will keep checking in here and trying to give suggestions where I can. But every one needs to try whatever works and throw out the rest. There truly is not an exact way to do anything. Be lovingly detached, not hard or nasty. Make the marriage a hard palce to leave and an easy place to come back to. Like my DBing coach said, "It's like selling a car. You have to let them smell the leather interior, feel the smooth ride, experience the torque. Only when they start to feel like they MUST own this car do you show the price tag." My WH can't imagine life without me now. But for a long time he felt he needed to leave the marriage to be truly happy. I tried forcing my ideas and philosophy on him. Once I let go and when it became too much for me, I filed for divorce. But I left the door open and when he finally showed true remorse I made sure the path back was paved.
PsySara, that is awesome. Thanks so much for the update. I'm glad it's turning into a happy ending for you!
I haven't checked in for quite a while and had no idea you are now piecing! That's fantastic, congratulations!!! So happy for you and your family!
PsySara, I used to post under my prior screen name to you. Had to change for the usual reasons.
Just wondering if you could give all the newbies here a very brief run-down on your sitch. I think yours is such an excellent example of why Michelle's theories work and provide the only chance most people have at turning things around.
I'm pretty sure that you would agree that only when you completely and utterly detached and he knew it with 100% certainty did he realize what he stood to lose with you and the kids.
Your perseverance, how you held so much together, and the trials you endured are such great lessons to others.
Congratulations on all you and he have accomplished.
Hi OneArt! I think I know who you are!
To summarize:
WH and I married after knowing each other 3 years, Within a year we experienced a miscarriage and then successfully got pregnant and had our daughter. He just started residency and I was finishing up medical school. I started my residency while pregnant with our second child and we had to commute. By my fourth year of residency (2015-2016) we were having problems. He lived in another state every other week for work and he suddenly became distant and mean. He was fixated on his cell phone and snapping at me for every little thing. In Oct 2015 I found out WH was having a EA/PA with a co-worker when he was away at work. I was 6 months pregnant with our third child, a child he had begged to have as I get very ill during pregnancy. My world turned black.
For the rest of my pregnancy WH went back and forth, breaking NC with the OW and by April 2016 he was cheating again. I did not know until June 2016 and the relationship had already died a natural death. I moved to my home state upon completing my residency and WH continued to work every other week in his work state and our marriage started to an uneasy reconciliation. I attended some IC and eventually tried MC which failed. One minute WH wanted to work on our marriage and the next minute he wanted to D, move away and in rare moments, he talked about abandoning our children. To say he was unrecognizable to me would be an understatement. I was using a DBing coach and trying to apply the DBing techniques (unevenly at best.) WH finally moved in with the family permanently in late 2016 and we had a lot of pursuit vs fleeing throughout. In 2017 I convinced WH to try Retrouville and it was a disaster. We even tried to leave early but the facilitators talked us into staying and completing the weekend. I even went to 3 aftercare appointments (sans WH) but it just wasn't a tool that I found effective.
WH continued to have poor boundaries, mostly with female co-workers and at one point I found he started using snapchat. Of course this app deletes messages automatically and this was no bueno. The fights we had were epic. Finally I gave up and filed for divorce in early 2018. WH continued to text/message females at work and I basically stopped snooping and started picturing myself single. I took my children for the state required classes for an approaching divorce, started looking around for child counselors and making my financial plans for the future. I was friendly and cordial with WH as my goal of good co-parenting was always my focus. WH started looking for nearby houses so the kids would not have to deal with too much upheaval. He even asked me to join him to look at some. While walking through one of the houses WH had a breakdown and literally became ill. We started talking about how we were going to manage all of this. He asked me for one last chance. I told him I was not giving him "another chance" but if he could win me back I might reconsider divorce. I put the divorce on hold (we can do that for 6 months) and sat back and watched. WH stumbled a lot initially and it even got to the point where we went to a second case management hearing to see how the assets would be divided. One night I walked away from WH when we were fighting (over something utterly stupid) and WH actually started doing a lot of heavy lifting. We are now both going forward with a beginners mindset. We have even started feeling limerance for each other. (something I didn't know possible after being married almost 10 years. WH has done some soul searching, some reading and we now have a lot of deep conversations. We have learned to disagree without fighting. WH has become more attentive and I have become less reactive. It is not perfect but I think for us, it's the closest thing to perfect we will experience. WH has extremely strong boundaries and shows 100% transparency. We laugh a lot more, joke a lot more and spend a lot of quality time together. We are happy most days.
Sara!!! So good to see you here again and read your update! I am so glad he fully removed his head from his rectum!
I have always appreciated your solid DB efforts, grit, and the honesty and vulnerability in your posts. You are an inspiration to all here. I hope you can find the time to update occasionally and even advise other newbies. It can be hard to keep coming back here while piecing, I know.
I am moving along, albeit slowly, with 2 steps forward and the occasional 1 step back.
Thank you updating and we all wish you guys the best!
Blu
Hi PsySara, I'm so happy to hear your positive update. Sounds like a dream-come-true. I'm so glad you persevered and gave your husband another chance. Sometimes it really does take a long time to resolve problems in a marriage but it sounds like everyone is happy now. More than anything you're giving your kids the gift of a mother and father raising them together in the same house. I hope you're finally able to breath and enjoy life and remember what it's like to feel happiness!
Sara, its so good to hear your update. At least some children are able to keep their families intact. All the credit should go to you, I have read thru all your threads and know how difficult your H made it for you. he was completely out of control. Your persistent efforts made you pull through this. I am so happy for you and to read that both of you feel genuine love for each other and are able to put the mistakes of the past behind you and look forward to the future.
Once he got back, did he continue to show remorse? Did you see slow consistent changes and improvements over a period of time before he actually showed his reformed self to you?
Hi friends! Just thought I'd give an update which is just to say, things are humming along. We are kind of becoming complacent and I see WH sliding back into some of his old ways. He is working too much and it's putting a strain on our interactions. My love language is Quality Time and when he works all but 4 days a month it definitely puts a damper on us. I sat down with him and had a frank discussion that while I was happy to fill my time with other activities, it wasn't helping our connection if he was absent more than present. He decided to clean up his calendar for January and to make time for us. We still argue but I have followed through on my DB and simply disengage and make sure to address any serious concerns when there isn't an emotional charge. I once read to never argue when HALT (hungry, angry, late, tired) and it's been a life saver.
I am enjoying my new job immensely, I work 7 days on and 7 days off, effectively getting paid more money to work half a year. This means I can GAL as well as make sure I do self care. My kids have definitely enjoyed a calmer and more engaged mother and I find myself enjoying their company more. This year I am focusing on working on my physical health, working aggressively on debt reduction and also to put more towards my spiritual life. As many know I am Muslim and I have kind of back shelved my obligations. I haven't prayed consistently (we pray 5 times a day) and I definitely haven't been consistent with the kid's lessons. The new "semester" begins this January so I'll be signing the kids up for Sunday school again and getting that squared away.
Since this Summer I will be have every other week off I am perusing some ideas for family vacations. I really want to introduce camping to the kids as I have a lot of wonderful childhood memories about that. (not family but I was a country kid who went camping with friends) I also will be putting the kids in day summer camp so their swim lessons can continue. I am excited about this year. WH can continue to heal our marriage and build memories post Bomb drop.
Hi PsySara,
I was happy to check-in here and see your update. That all sounds wonderful. The fact that your husband was willing to change his schedule for January is a very good sign. Those also sound like great family activities and there's every reason to believe 2019 will be one of love and healing for your family!
If you have any time to read other threads, could you please let me know if there's any chance for my husband to be redeemed in the future? I'm grieving and struggling a lot with the failure of my marriage and how this will impact my poor daughter.
New Thread:
Slowly piecing, D busted (pt 14)