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Posted By: mtb1981 Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 02:20 AM
Link to Old Thread...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775271&page=11

W supposedly signed the lease to her new place on two nights ago, and said she would be by to get her things. Still has not been by though. Had a 45 minute convo with her that went nowhere that same day when she called me at work because I wasn't answering my cell phone. (see previous thread) I woke up this morning to a missed call from her at 1:00 in the morning last night. I've been tempted to try to discuss our sitch recently, but have held strong and have been doing my best to keep contact to a minimum...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 05:19 AM
Also, I've spent the past few weeks documenting things that have been going on with W (when she stops by the house, for how long, amount of time spent with kids, etc.) I've got about 5 solid weeks of documentation. Also went through old texts that she has sent, and they align with the things I have documented...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 11:56 AM
W called and I answered. Decided to mix it up a bit since I usually let it go to VM. She said she was not going to be able to move into her new place until Tuesday. Her original plan was to be moved in by this weekend and she wanted the kids to stay with her. I just listened and didn't really say anything. She apologized for calling at 1:00 in the morning last night (said she accidentally hit my number when going through her call log). I told her it wasn't a problem. That I was asleep anyway and didn't notice until this morning. She then asked if she could come by tomorrow night before she had to go to work (she has to be at work at 9 PM)so she could see the kids and tuck them into bed. I told her that would be fine. Then we were done talking. She sounded kind of sad on the phone, but I didn't ask anything....

About 10 minutes later, I realized that the kids and I had planned on meeting my parents for a fish fry at the kids' school tomorrow evening. So I sent her a text saying that I just remembered we were supposed to meet them for dinner and she was more than welcome to come with us if she wanted, otherwise we would be home after that. She texted back that she didn't think it would be a good idea. That she would love to, but thought it would be uncomfortable. I sent back that if she would love to, then she should. She would have to be around them at some point anyway and whatever she wanted to do was fine. She responded that she did want to, but she thinks they are mad at her. I told her my parents love her more than she knows and like I said, if you want to, come.... if not, don't. Just want you to know all of us, including the parents would love for you to come. She responded that she would let me know tomorrow morning and if I haven't heard from her if I would text her and remind her.... I texted back, "If you're lucky..." (This was always kind of an inside thing with us. Anytime she asked something, I would say that and she would respond, "I'm always lucky!") So she responded with, I'm always lucky!!!. I sent back a winky face, and she sent back "lol" with a smiley face blowing a kiss with a heart. I left it at that...

I'm not considering this as pursuing (even though it kind of is), but instead letting her know that the door is open. I'm trying to be the lighthouse. And I read nothing into the kissy face. If anything, now I was the one that left some crumbs and she took them, and I'm going to leave it at that. I have no expectations...
Posted By: LH19 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 12:25 PM
Dude that is big time pursuit and your trying to serve her a big fat piece of cake. If you communicate to her that the door is always open you will be in limbo land for a very long time and it will suck the fuching life out of you.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 12:58 PM
Originally Posted By: LH19
Dude that is big time pursuit and your trying to serve her a big fat piece of cake. If you communicate to her that the door is always open you will be in limbo land for a very long time and it will suck the fuching life out of you.


I totally get what you're saying, and I'm not planning on doing anything more. It has more to do with her seeing my parents than anything else. I feel like it's going to be a lot harder for her to want to come back if she thinks they hate her. I honestly doubt she even comes, and if she does, she'll be uncomfortable anyway. But I don't want her worrying about what they think preventing her from coming back. I'm just trying to keep the road back home smooth by eliminating that from the situation. I don't plan on reminding her tomorrow either if she doesn't contact me in the morning. She called a little while ago, and I didn't answer. I'm just going to continue what I have been doing from this point on. I guess I just see this as a quick reminder that I'm not the bad guy she wants to make me out to be. Like I said, I have no expectations and I'm not planning on inviting her to do anything again...
Posted By: Vanilla Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/08/18 07:56 PM
Leaving the door open is different from being the doormat in front of it.

The door is open but there are boundaries on walking through it. The door isn't revolving either, to come in and out of.

Those who apply the lighthouse (which works well with a WAW, not so much with a WS) also apply the picnic in front of the lighthouse analogy too.

Stand for M as long as you want to do so. I still stand for M but not with the G.

V
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/09/18 12:18 AM
mtb, I think there was a little pursuit involved but I think you handled it pretty well actually. You probably should have been a bit more brief with her than you were, but I don't think it was total pursuit. Your plans changed your plans, you invited her along and put no pressure on her to join you. Leaving it up to her is not necessarily pursuit. Others may and will disagree.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/09/18 05:00 AM
Originally Posted By: Vanilla
I still stand for M but not with the G.


What is G?
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/12/18 04:20 AM
As expected, W did not show up Friday to have dinner with parents, nor did she come by to see the kids like she said she would. She called on Saturday morning, and requested to come by and see the kids again. I told her that was fine, and the kids and I would be going to a cook out at around 6:30. She said she had just got into town, was going to make a quick stop by her work, and would be right over. 3 hours later, and she never showed up, so the kids and I went to the cook out. W is a complete mess. Told me during convo on Saturday that she has contemplated suicide several times. She misses the kids (yet never makes an effort to see them, or if she does, she bails last minute), she's tired of being unhappy, and tired of the getting fuched up just to be able to not feel anything. She says she's still mad at me, but the more and more this goes on, I realize that I'm being used as an excuse for her to justify her actions. She has no personal responsibility and seeks attention and sympathy from everyone. She's been going through "friends" at a fast pace. Complained to me that no one wants to spend time with her and she feels alone. I know this is true, because I've had many people tell me that they first felt sorry for her, then saw through her BS, and decided she was someone they don't want to be around. Honestly, I'm starting to feel the same way...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/12/18 05:00 AM
She obviously needs some serious therapy. I'm starting to be worried for her life. is she into any other substances other than alcohol? I've had friends like this caught in the clutches of hard drugs like coke, crack, meth or heroin
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/12/18 06:18 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
She obviously needs some serious therapy. I'm starting to be worried for her life. is she into any other substances other than alcohol? I've had friends like this caught in the clutches of hard drugs like coke, crack, meth or heroin

I agree. She needs help, but she is at a point where she is not open to getting the help she needs, and the last person she will listen to is me. I said something to her about it a month ago. I was and still am genuinely worried about her health. But she is in the frame of mind that everything I say to her is a personal attack to make her feel bad, or a ploy to get her to come back. It's the exact opposite of that. I just want her to be happy and healthy. All I know is that there is nothing I can say to make her see this. As far as other substances go, she has been taking prescription opiates again and began messing around with cocaine...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/14/18 07:19 AM
Talked to W yesterday, and told her that I was no longer willing to live like this. Gave her one last chance to move back home to work on things. Explained to her that we needed to go to MC and she would need to get IC or rehab to deal with her substance abuse issues and personal issues. Told her she would have to quit the bartending job as well. If not, I will be filing for divorce. This is no idle threat, I am ready to do so because her current behavior and actions are toxic. The kids and I do not need to be around it. She was nearly speechless. She tried to convince me that she should still get her own place and we should date. I informed her that W the bartender is not someone I am interested in dating and her current lifestyle is very unattractive. I have a lot to offer and she can take it or leave it. She said she would let me know today. I told her that was fine, but that I was very serious about what I said...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 03/14/18 08:16 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
Talked to W yesterday, and told her that I was no longer willing to live like this. Gave her one last chance to move back home to work on things. Explained to her that we needed to go to MC and she would need to get IC or rehab to deal with her substance abuse issues and personal issues. Told her she would have to quit the bartending job as well. If not, I will be filing for divorce. This is no idle threat, I am ready to do so because her current behavior and actions are toxic. The kids and I do not need to be around it. She was nearly speechless. She tried to convince me that she should still get her own place and we should date. I informed her that W the bartender is not someone I am interested in dating and her current lifestyle is very unattractive. I have a lot to offer and she can take it or leave it. She said she would let me know today. I told her that was fine, but that I was very serious about what I said...


Well done. This is one case where I support a hard ultimatum. It will save you and the kids a lot of pain, but it could even save her life.

Well played, mtb!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/16/18 12:23 PM
Well... Unfortumately things went like I were afraid they would would. W "moved" back home the day after she signed a lease on a new place. She told me she wanted it to be available if things went south. She stayed home the first 2 nights, and was gone the next 2. Home another night and gone for 3. The pattern continued, and she has officially moved into her place a few days ago. I will admit, I became weak and put up with her behavior for the past month again. I really felt sorry for her, and wanted nothing to do but help her. I now realize I was just enabling her and preventing her from hitting rock bottom. I really feel stupid, but I'm not going to beat myself up for it any longer. She was in a bad place mentally and physically, and I thought I could "save" her. I now realize that is not my job. It's really hard watching someone you care about so much hurt themselves the way she was. Lesson learned. The worst part is that I was in a good place mentally before she came back, and now I have to go through the actions/emotions to get back there...

I am currently going NC and getting back to being the best I can be for myself. The tough part is dealing with the emotional manipulation. She still tells me she loves me every time we finish speaking, and I struggle with not saying it back, even though I know that's what I need to be doing. I need to be moving on...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/16/18 12:27 PM
I would also like to add that during the past month she made many comments about how she wasn't going to move into the new place, but just wanted it as a back up. The whole time, she kept furnishing it and getting it ready to move into. She is getting rent assistance from CEFS and said that it needed to look like someone was living there, or they would not help out with the rent. Up until a few days ago, she swore she wasn't planning on moving in there, yet was staying there several nights a week for the past two weeks. "Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do". Ain't that the truth...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 12:33 AM
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 01:18 AM
Posted from my phone and it didn't go through...

Anyway, I just found out last night that my wife is cheating on me. I noticed on Snapchat that she was messaging from OM's house. I decided to drive by there, and only his car was there. I saw earlier in the evening that she had sent messages from a local hotel parking lot. When I drove by there, she had her van parked in the back. Checked my phone again, and she was still messaging from OM's house. So what's the best thing to do in this situation? Call her out on it or keep my mouth shut?...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 03:27 AM
Any advice on how I should/should not confront my wife when I get home from work later would be greatly appreciated. Thanks...
Posted By: doodler Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 03:34 AM
mtb1981,

I'm very sorry about your predicament; it's a terrible thing to discover that a spouse is cheating.

The advice about the best approach will vary, but I'm a hard-liner so be sure to get input from others. Having said that, I think your best course of action is to throw her sh*t out in the front yard and change the locks on all the doors.
Posted By: neffer Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 03:40 AM
Being myself a (former) wayward, I totally agree with doodler. Sorry for your situation mtb, best of luck, stay strong.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 03:52 AM
Thank you doodler and neffer,

She has recently moved out into her own place. I guess what I'm asking is what do I say to her? Or should I even say anything to her? Tell her I know about the A and that it's unacceptable then gather the rest of her stuff up and put it outside?...

I tend to ramble and lose train of thought in situations like this and want to have a speech or some sort of framework as to what to say before I confront her...
Posted By: neffer Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 03:59 AM
Posted By: neffer Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 04:01 AM
Posted By: neffer Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 04:01 AM
Posted By: neffer Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 04:02 AM
Posted By: doodler Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/17/18 04:27 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
She has recently moved out into her own place. I guess what I'm asking is what do I say to her? Or should I even say anything to her? Tell her I know about the A and that it's unacceptable then gather the rest of her stuff up and put it outside?...


Ah! No worries about throwing her stuff out. The reason she moved out was so she could continue her affair unabated the constraints of husband and family.

You need to see a "family" lawyer to find out about the laws in your state regarding child custody, separation and divorce. If your finances aren't separated, then go ahead and separate them. Be sure to setup a visitation schedule for the children.

Move on with your life assuming she's not going to be a part of it.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 06:35 AM
Confronted W yesterday, and she denied, denied, denied. The "reason" she showed up on the Snapchat map at that location was because she was hanging out at the house across the street with her girlfriend. The "reason" her van was parked behind the hotel was because she can't park her van at her friend's apartment building, which happens to be in a neighboring town. The "reason" she didn't just park her van at her rental house was because that's she just happened to be driving near the hotel when she and her friend decided to go hang out and spend the night together. Her whole story stinks, and I'm not buying it. I told her I was over the whole situation, that divorce was the last thing I wanted, but I am not willing to deal with this kind of BS. She went from angry and defensive, telling me that SHE was done with me not trusting her, to trying to convince me it wasn't what it looked like and wanting me to believe her...

I again told her I didn't buy her story and that I was done. That if there were any chance of us having a R in the future, it would have to be her doing the work, because I've been the only one trying to make it work now. She then asked what she could do. I told her that was up to her. She said she wanted to make an appointment for MC because she really wants things to get better. That right now she just needs time and space to herself to figure out who she is so she can be a better person and mother (notice she did not say wife). I told her that if she wanted to call and make the appointment, I would go, but that she also needed to look into getting some IC as well. I honestly doubt that she will even make the appointment...

Also, after I mentioned I knew where she was because of the snapchat map, she magically disappeared from the map. Same thing happened a month ago on Facebook. I was scrolling through the newsfeed and the nearby friends popped up and she was not in the town she claimed to be in. Poof! Never appeared in nearby friends again. If this doesn't scream that she's got something to hide, I don't know what does....
Posted By: doodler Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 07:02 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
If this doesn't scream that she's got something to hide, I don't know what does....


You got that right bro!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 07:04 AM
mtb, this is why you never reveal the source of your intel. This is the same mistake I made with my wife early on. Got the advice to keep it a secret once I joined this forum. She too would shut down any method I used to check up on her.

Yeah she is definitely lying though. And the MC and wanting to make things better is just to keep you in a holding pattern. My wife did this for the first 2 months after BD as well. Every time I tried to talk to her about working on the MR, she would run the other way. As soon as I talked about a) moving forward with D, b) telling our daughter what was going on c) that I was fed up and done, she'd start talking about wanting to work on things, about hoping MC would help, about just needing to figure things out.

It is like I've quoted many times, WSs and WASs don't need their own place to "figure things out". They need their own place to sleep with other people.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 07:49 AM
MTB,

You are done yet and your W knows that. You know that. You are wanting her to stop talking to OM and come home. (This is want all LBS wants).

When you are done and she will know and feel when you are done. When you are done, you want care if she stops. You will stop searching and checking on her.

When you are done you Will focus soley on your kids and yourself.

You W got that apartment to have the best of both worlds. To have access to both options.

When you are done you want make yourself an option no more. Once that happens, she will have to work to get you back. Going to MC at this point want help, because she hasn't cut off the OM. Don't bring up MC until you see her doing the work and she sends a no contact message or letter that you approve of.

She's only trying to appease you at the moment. But when you show her you are done thru your actions, she will have to work to appease you.

Don't tell her how you know what you know. Just present the facts from now on, and not how you gathered them.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 08:17 AM
So, I guess my best option is to just go NC and quit worrying about everything. Another thing I was wondering about was an issue with taxes. I have been the sole provider for years. W got a job bartending this past December. She didn't even make enough to have to file, yet still wanted to split the refund. I told her no. Anyway, we went to file together, and at the end she asked if she could have $2000 put into her account. I said no, and told her I would file separately instead. She asked the accountant how much she would get back if she filed separately, and that's when she found out she didn't even make enough to file because they didn't take anything out. She then asked if she could claim one of the kids, and he informed her that she couldn't because she had nothing to file. So, she got mad and we went to talk about it later. She asked again for $2000 so she could get beds for the kids so they could stay with her a few nights a week. I reluctantly agreed. Now, after this latest instance of me discovering she spent the night with another guy, I really don't feel like giving her the money. Am I wrong for thinking this?...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 08:29 AM
Totally not wrong. She is fishing for money dude. My WW did the same thing at the end of 2017 because she knew i got my Fire Dept stipend check. She fed me breadcrumbs, asked for $250 and then once i gave it to her, and she got what she wanted it was back to the same old avoidance tactics and lying.
She didn't work for that 2k. Dont give it to her. If she left, she left the comfort and security of your marriage thereby making you not responsible for her fiscal responsibilities. If she didn't have the $$ to afford beds for her kids she shouldn't have moved out. Just because she says its for the beds for the kids doesn't mean it all would go to that, some would likely be spent on dates with OM.
be polite but stand your ground. Say you need the money to make sure your kids are happy and healthy. Not your responsibility to furnish her affair pad.

My WW has had her Parents harping me for tax info all month. They had months to approach me to get taxes filed. When i presented options that worked for both parties i was turned down, and my F.I.L just requested copies of my W2 and SS#. I politely told them i wasn't willing to hand over financial info to someone who wouldn't speak to me (my wife) and let someone else file MY taxes without me present. They must think I'm High. They only reach out when they need something, until they see you are done bending over backwards for them, the expectation will endure.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 02:39 PM
Thanks, Orange. That's what i needed to hear. When she's not around or Im not talking to her, I know what I need to do. When she's around or I'm talking to her, I buckle. I need to work on that...

Also, I went ahead and made a trip to the hardware store and bought a new deadbolt and changed the lock. I feel like she doesn't need to be stopping over here during the day when I'm not around so she can pick and choose what she wants to take. Next step, what do I do with the rest of her stuff that's here? It's mostly just clothes. Should I pack it up and dump it on her porch, or should I wait until she contacts me to get it?...
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 03:57 PM
Mbt,

I would pack her stuff in a box or boxes and put them in a storage room or garage. When she says she needs to stop to get something or her stuff give her, her boxes.

The issue with the beds. Instead of giving her money. You can offer to get your kids bed. You don't want your kids sleeping on the floor no matter what is going on between you and your W. Make it an outing and let your W know you are taking to kids to pick out there new beds. If she responds in an ungrateful manner, then you know what she was expecting. Second, beds don't cost $2000.

Get the beds and keep it moving. This is her new reality. Also by you taking the kids, they get to see what an awesome dad they have.
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/18/18 04:41 PM
Then you're doing great in my opinion. I haven't seen or spoken with my wife in 3 months so I haven't had the opportunity to test my resolve at all. As far as her belongings are concerned I would Supply a deadline to have them moved if she's not going to be living in the marital house. I made a lot of wrong moves before finding these resources. My wife left in October and I didn't move out of our apartment until December and when I did I put most of her stuff in my storage unit because she wasn't around to help move out even though she knew it was happening. I guess my point is that it seems like they will literally drag their feet and make you do everything from moving their belongings paying to store them to filing divorce. Just don't do any of it. Set boundaries and clearly State your expectations in regard to adult responsibilities such as taking care of their belongings or paying for things. Same thing with the lock, I threatened to take my wife's key to our apartment away numerous times before I finally had the backbone to do it. looking back I know this is something that had an effect because of the way she reacted the first time I asked for the key back she threatened to come and take all of her stuff because I was still begging her to move back in at that point. she left that's not her home anymore she should have no expectations about access to the home or your finances. As always no need to be mean, stand your ground and be polite.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/19/18 12:54 AM
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Mbt,

The issue with the beds. Instead of giving her money. You can offer to get your kids bed. You don't want your kids sleeping on the floor no matter what is going on between you and your W. Make it an outing and let your W know you are taking to kids to pick out there new beds. If she responds in an ungrateful manner, then you know what she was expecting. Second, beds don't cost $2000.

Get the beds and keep it moving. This is her new reality. Also by you taking the kids, they get to see what an awesome dad they have.


This is extremely sound advice. People that ask for money for X, and then protest when you want to provide X instead of the money more than likely didn't really want the money for X. This is a common tactic we use when helping people asking for charity. "I need money for food." "OK, we will meet you at XYZ grocery store and buy you groceries." "Never mind, but thanks for the offer. Yeah, they want money to go buy meth.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/20/18 03:26 AM
mtb, what is the latest?
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/21/18 02:35 AM
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/21/18 02:40 AM
Posted from my phone, and it showed up blank...

Anyway, nothing has happenned. Been NC for a couple days now. Last time we talked, she said she wasgoing to come by last night to pick up the kids and take them out for dinner. She never showed up or called to say she wasn't. Oh well... her loss. I learned a few months ago to not tell the kids when she plans on doing something with them, because she always backs out or doesn't show...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 04:19 AM
W called me Saturday afternoon. Said she just wanted to talk to me and see how I was doing. Was asking about what plans the kids and I had over the next few days because she wanted to come by and hang out. (Yeah, right). I told her what days we would be around and just left it at that. She called again on Sunday, but I didn't answer. Just let it go to voicemail. She didn't leave a message...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 04:40 AM
Well played sir.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 04:54 AM
And.... W just called. She just got fired from her bartending job. I was the first person she called. Her mood changed pretty drastically in the 5 minutes we were on the phone. At first, I think she was in shock, just talking normally and kind of laughing about it. Then she mentioned the fact that she just signed a year lease at her new place, and her whole demeanor changed. Shaky voice and what not. Then she said she had to get off the phone because she wasn't feeling well. I hate to say it, but I'm happy as hell. That job was the whole catalyst of the situation we are in. Hoping this helps shake her out of the fog...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 05:28 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
And.... W just called. She just got fired from her bartending job. I was the first person she called. Her mood changed pretty drastically in the 5 minutes we were on the phone. At first, I think she was in shock, just talking normally and kind of laughing about it. Then she mentioned the fact that she just signed a year lease at her new place, and her whole demeanor changed. Shaky voice and what not. Then she said she had to get off the phone because she wasn't feeling well. I hate to say it, but I'm happy as hell. That job was the whole catalyst of the situation we are in. Hoping this helps shake her out of the fog...


mtb, I've followed your sitch from the beginning. Your WW seemed more wayward than any I've heard of before. I think this might be the trigger to clear the fog. That and now being on the hook for a year lease. The question is, are you open to letting her come back? No one would blame you if the answer was "no way!"

Did she say why she got fired? I remember there was some drug use suspected, if not outright known. Was her drug usage causing her to become erratic in her work ethic? Not showing up for shifts, etc?
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 06:05 AM
She said they fired her for keeping the bar open too long on Sunday. The law states that everyone has to be out by 2 AM, bartenders included. It was very common for her to kick everyone out at closing except for her friends and stay there until past 3. Cops came one night a couple of weeks ago and had to kick everyone out. I'm assuming the talked to the owner. He told her he watched the cameras and there was no reason for her to be in there past that time. Also, she left in the middle of her shift on Saturday night for 20 minutes or so (probably to do drugs), and put another employee who was in there drinking, but not working behind the bar while she was gone...

To answer your question, I am open to her coming back, but not immediately. She's gonna have to show me some serious changes and that she really wants to work on it. I'm tired of being told what I want to hear, so she can use me to get through any tough spots, and then jumping ship once she gets what she wants. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas on how should deal with this situation, I would be glad to hear them. I'm guessing I just need to be strong and stand my ground. Let her fail and really hit rock bottom. I've been there too much to soften the blow in the past, and no lessons were learned. At the same time, I don't want her to think that I'm not there for her in a time of need. I believe it's a fine line, and one that's hard to find...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 06:11 AM
I'm guessing my best course of action is to continue what I've been doing the past several days. Lay low and keep NC. Let her come to me, and try not to be too available...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 06:13 AM
My advice, stop rescuing her. You've done it all along you've said. So as you said she's never learned anything except that good ol' mtb will be there to catch me when I fall, no matter what I've done prior to that. Teach her that being on her own means she has to hit that bottom when she falls.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 06:42 AM
MTB,

Your W is on her way down. Please don't get in the way of her fall. It's her job to pick herself up and claw herself out of the mess she has created.

It was her choice to sign a lease. You wasn't included in on that decision. The journey she's on now is hers alone. I know you want to rescue her, but you will only prolong her getting help and healthy.

She got fired because of a choice she made. She knew the rules.

She decided to leave her family.

You see all the parallels. Everything has been her decisions, let her live and learn from her CHOICES.

You are doing the right things. You are being a light tower. A light tower doesn't move. It just beacons. All the boats must come in it's direction. You are being the rock for your children. Continue to be that tower and dont you move towards her or reach for her until she comes back to you remorseful and committed to doing the work necessary to creating a great M and R between the two of you.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 07:02 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
I'm tired of being told what I want to hear, so she can use me to get through any tough spots, and then jumping ship once she gets what she wants. If anyone has any thoughts or ideas on how should deal with this situation, I would be glad to hear them. I'm guessing I just need to be strong and stand my ground. Let her fail and really hit rock bottom. I've been there too much to soften the blow in the past, and no lessons were learned.


Yup. I agree with you (and Joe and Steve), you've got to quit rescuing her. Just leave her to it.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 07:54 AM
These are the situations I struggle with. I never know what to say in the heat of the moment. I know I need to let her fall, but I'm always confused on how to respond or deny help without looking like a jerk....
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 08:00 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
These are the situations I struggle with. I never know what to say in the heat of the moment. I know I need to let her fall, but I'm always confused on how to respond or deny help without looking like a jerk....


Admittedly not my strong suit either. SO I will let others offer guidance. However, being a jerk and looking like a jerk are two different things. One you control (being a jerk). Looking like a jerk is up to those that observe you, and you can't control that. You could do everything right and should could still see you as being a jerk. That's not your problem.

So my suggestion? Let her fall in the most unjerklike way you possibly can. Be detached, lovingly. Validate when she contacts you to complain and vent. Go back and read the threads on detachment and validation. Study them. Have the information in them at the ready.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 08:15 AM
MTB,

In the realm of jerk. I have a lot of practice at that.

But, if she comes to you for help, only offer help with it comes to life threatening events. If she ask for water, give her a glass.

But if she starts, coming on to you or asking for money, respectfully decline. Show your strength, show her you won't be accepting every little thing she throws at your no more and will only accept, genuine, honest, and remorseful approaches. You are not her father, piggy bank, or bailout man. You are her husband and will only be accepting that position in her life.

Being a jerk, would you be telling her no to be spiteful. As long as you are not being revengeful or spiteful you are doing the what's best for you.

IMO, nothing you will say no to or will not accept she will take it easy or lightly. She will call you all kind of names, be prepared and holed your ground. You know what's right. Stand firm on your morals. Loving a person is not always easy, and it's not always about bailing them out, sometimes the hardest love we can provide is the love of letting a person go. Letting a person learn, letting a person fall. You will hurt through this process as well. It will hurt you to see her grow thru this.

Keep up the hardwork. That's why Sandi calls it hardwork, because it takes a lot.
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/24/18 08:50 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
These are the situations I struggle with. I never know what to say in the heat of the moment. I know I need to let her fall, but I'm always confused on how to respond or deny help without looking like a jerk....


WAS's hate to be controlled and manipulated. No matter how good your intentions, when you try to intervene and help a WAS they resent the hell out of it. My ex told one of her friends that her worst nightmare was thinking about contracting some terrible illness and having to be taken care of by me. Yes she actually said WORST NIGHTMARE. That is the WAS mindset, and it is damned hard for an LBS to understand how after 10 or 15 or 20 years of marriage the very person you swore to support in sickness and health suddenly wants nothing to do with you.

In short we're not telling you to "deny help" to her as you put it, we're telling you to quit jumping in to rescue her when she's not asking for help.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 10:29 AM
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 12:49 PM
So... There was a rumor going around that W hooked upwith OM on Friday night. When I confronted her about it last night, she admitted to going to a party at his house that night, but denied that anything happened. I heard the whole "I'd never do anything like that, you know I don't want to have anything to do with him, you gotta believe me" spiel. Along with the "What can i do to make you believe me, I'll do whatever it takes" speech. I told her as much as I wanted to believe her, I don't. I told her I was done. It immediately turned into her getting mad and asking if I was still going to give her some of my tax money. I told her no. She flipped out and cussed me out. The end...

Fast forward to this morning, she calls me at work. I don't answer. She sends a text saying there was something she'd like to tell me. She apologized for flipping out and said she wanted to work on things. I told her I still didn't believe her and asked what else she wanted to tell me. Then she finally admitted to hooking up with OM back in January. Claimed it was a one time thing (yeah right). I was calm and thanked her for her honesty and asked her why she couldn't have told me back then when I first had suspicions and asked. She said she didn't know. Then, guess what?... She asks me if I'm going to give her the $2000. I told her no again and that I was done. She the lost it and went into a screaming rage about how much of an [censored] I was, etc. Hung up on me. Called back an hour later and asked if we could talk now that she had calmed down. Convo almost immediately went back to me giving her money. I told her no again. She said, "fine, if you won't give me the money to buy things for the kids at my house, I'll just go home abd take their beds and whatever else I want because I still have a key". I told her good luck and that I had changed the locks. Kept trying to hold our relationship over my head saying that any sliver of a chance we had at reconciling was gone because I wouldn't give her the money. I still told her no. I'm pretty sure it's over at this point. It's the last thing I wanted, but I don't deserve this crap. It's obvious I'm being used...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 01:07 PM
Just like you said I know it's the last thing that you wanted but you absolutely did everything right in my opinion. You stood your ground and we're not aggressive about it. You should be feeling good about yourself right now despite the awful situation
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 01:09 PM
It just really $ucks, because the last thing I want is a divorce. And who knows, maybe we'll end up making it through this. And as cliche as it sounds, this is not the woman I married. Complete opposite. The silver lining of today though is that it's made it so much easier to drop the rope. And still at times, I feel like there is something I could say to make her realize this is all a huge mistake, but it passes quickly and I'm back in reality. She's checked out. Probably has been the entire time, but kept stringing me along so she could get money from me. She's in complete panic mode right now being broke and unemployed with a half furnished place she can't afford. I keep reminding myself to just let it all go. She's cheating on me, has a substance abuse problem, and cares only about herself. SHe's not worth my time...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 01:12 PM
Thanks, Orange... This afternoon, I was proud of myself and feeling good for standing my ground. But here I am now, giving 3 kids baths and making them dinner wishing it didn't have to be like this. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad I did everything I did today, but the reality that it is probably over for good is hitting hard and still hurts...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 01:17 PM
I know I'm not the first person here to feel this way, and I'm sure it's actually pretty common, but I feel really stupid. I have a strange clarity right now. I actually believed the things she has been telling me the past few weeks about wanting to make things work. In hindsight, she was just trying to keep me happy so she could get what she wanted out of me and I feel like an idiot for not realizing it then. I was in complete denial, even though in the back of my mind I knew that it was gonna play out like this...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 02:26 PM
You are not remotely alone. My wife did the exact same thing to me in December because that's when I got paid by fire department stipend. The niceness and false hope ramped-up pretty much all through December and I unlike you caved to her demands almost instantly because I just wanted my family together for Christmas. As soon as the holidays were over and she had when she wanted the coldness returned with a vengeance. Then I was feeling just as hurt and destroyed as I'm sure you are right now , we only have one child to care for but feeling like that is a large part of the reason why I left the apartment we shared because I couldn't handle parenting alone in the home and it was supposed to be our stepping stone to purchasing a house and starting our life together for the long term. Keep standing your ground man you're doing way better than I was at this point. it took me getting legally excommunicated from my wife to do the research I needed to do and start the self-reflection I needed to do to improve myself and move on whether reconciliation happens or not, I hold no assumptions about what the end result is going to be. All you can do is take care of yourself. Keep it up man you've got this.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/26/18 02:46 PM
MTB,

You did great. It takes balls to do what you did. It takes a LBS that won't take their WS sh!t anymore. It take a LBS that fog has lifted and start to develop confidence.

Your W wanted money and now she sees she won't be getting that. She is losing control of you. And once a person that has control of another person lose that control, they start to lose control of themselves.

It's going to get worst before its gets better. Prepare yourself. Especially when she knows you have received the money. And also she when she really figures out you won't give in to her demands.

Great Job!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 02:47 AM
W sent me a text last night asking if I tried to call her because her phone died. I did not and did not reply to the text. She called me this morning at 6:30. I did not answer. This behavior is bizarre. During the day yesterday, she told me she never wanted to speak with me again and to not contact her unless it was about the kids. Now she's randomly trying to contact me. I would assume she's trying to keep me attached...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 02:49 AM
A good assumption MTB.
Stick to your guns, you're doing great. Clearly its working.

I look forward to the opportunity to implement this tactic effectively once TRO is gone.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 03:09 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
W sent me a text last night asking if I tried to call her because her phone died. I did not and did not reply to the text. She called me this morning at 6:30. I did not answer. This behavior is bizarre. During the day yesterday, she told me she never wanted to speak with me again and to not contact her unless it was about the kids. Now she's randomly trying to contact me. I would assume she's trying to keep me attached...


Walk-aways and waywards hate to lose control of the LBS. You can see this throughout the threads here. As soon as the LBS becomes proficient at GAL, detaching, and 180ing suddenly the WAS/WS wants to try to exert more control over them.

Likely she hasn't given up on her quest for the $2k. After she lashes out, in her mind, she thinks she'll still be able to get it by playing sweet. If mtb engages her, shortly she will turn the subject back to the $2k. If she has a drug habit, which is quite likely, she wants that $2k badly.

mtb, stick to your guns! You've got this!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 03:27 AM
Thanks, Steve and Orange. I've just decided to keep my phone turned off today while I'm at work. I figure I'll turn it on during lunch to see if there are any important messages from anyone else. This way, I won't be tempted to engage if the phone does ring or a text from her comes through. The next few days are going to really odd. My youngest son and I share a birthday coming up on Tuesday. So I'm guessing she'll use that as an excuse to contact me and try to interject more of the money talk. Like I mentioned earlier, she's broke, unemployed, and got herself into situations that she can't financially take care of with her new place (honestly it was only a matter of time before it caught up with her anyway. Her rent is $900 a month, and she was only making about $1200 a month when she still had her job). She's gonna do whatever it takes to get some money to keep her fantasy afloat...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 03:33 AM
She left, not your responsibility right now my friend.
Let the weight of reality come tumbling down.

Loss leads to reality.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 08:14 AM
Just went back and read through my first thread. Sandi gave me a lot of good advice, and I did my best to follow it. But eventually I would screw up and get setback. Looking back, I wish I would have followed everything she said exactly to a tee. I think I would be much further down the road and in a better place. Like they say, hindsight is 20/20. Anyway, if you're out there, Sandi, you're advice was golden. I just wish I would have been able to do a better job of following it...
Posted By: SwHubby Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 08:23 AM
Hi, just remember that you tried your best and that it is way better to improve in following those advices today rather than tomorrow. You cannot be an expert at the beginning. By improving and following the advice your sitch might be better in the future. You cannot do anything about what has been except learning from it.
Of course, I know that is easier said than done.,. But there are many in this forum that has already gone through this, and I think that it had been a learning process for most.
Posted By: SwHubby Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 08:26 AM
And I agree with previous responders, it is most likely about the money.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/27/18 10:18 AM
And things get weirder...

Got an email a little bit ago saying someone tried to get access to my Venmo and Paypal accounts, so I changed my passwords. I wonder who that coul have been??? Lol...

Then I get a call from a friend that said W had made a comment to one of her friends yesterday that she felt like taking a bunch of pills and ending it all. The girl she told this to was someone she had been running around with the past month or two. The friend had kind of quit hanging out with her because she was "tired of her $hit". Her friend told her to go ahead and do it, that all she wanted was attention, and she was over all of her drama. So friend calls W's BFF and tells her. BFF tracks W down at OM's house and beats on the door until he answers. W was laying on the couch, and I guess BFF ripped her a new one, telling her how stupid she's been, that she needs to get her act together and grow up. Told her she needed to go home and spend time with her kids instead of getting effed up hanging out with OM...

W's fantasy bubble is popping real quick. But it's still gonna be awhile until she smacks the bottom. Honestly, I'm kind of glad all of this has happened in the past week. It's made it so much easier to detach. As crappy as it sounds, this is the best I've felt in a while. It's just too bad it had to happen like this...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/28/18 03:27 AM
It just keeps getting crazier...

Last night, I was home with all of the kids. We needed milk so I was going to make a quick trip to the grocery store. I had a weird feeling, so I told my oldest son to keep an eye on the kids while I was gone and if W came over to not let her in. She had been making comments lately about taking things from the house. So in the 20 - 30 minutes while I was gone, she showed up. I don't know if it was a coincidence that she showed up while I was gone, or she had been keeping an eye on the house waiting for me to leave. Anyway, she came over, son wouldn't let her in. She told him she needed some Tylenol and that was why shw was stopping by. He went and grabbed the bottle, handed it to her through the door, and locked the house back up. She left. On my way back, I passed W on the road, and she did a quick U-turn and followed me home. Be fore I could even get out of the car, she was out of the van and standing by the car door. Started yelling at me that I was keeping the kids from her, which is far from the truth. I've beem trying to get her to spendtime with them for months. Her second sentence was asking if I had filed for divorce yet. We had only talked about seriously getting divorced the day before. I told her no and that she needed to leave leave. She looked like a hot mess. I couldn't tell if she was high, had been crying all day, or both...

Told her toleave again and she said no. Her BFF was in the van with her. I just went inside. 5 minutes later, I noticed she was still outside. I went back out and asked her to leave again. She still refused. I went back in and 5 minutes later she came beating on the door asking for her mail. I gave her the mail and told her to leave again. She still refused. Another length of time goes by and she's still outside. I go out once again and ask her to leave and if I need to call the police to get her to go. She just smiled. At that point, I knew she had already called them, so I went inside and waited...

Sure enough, a few minutes later the cops show up. She goes into a rant about how I need to give her $2000 dollars and she wans inside to take half the stuff. The cop asks me to wait on the propch while he talks to her, so I do. They talk for awhile and the he talks to me. I explained the whole situation about how she left months ago and showed up out of the blue accusing me of trying to keep the kids away from her. He told me that this was not a police matter, and I agreed. I wasn't the one who called them. Sohe goes on to explain that she can't take any communal propert from thr house without a court order, which I already knew. Told me that the kids were best off staying with me like they had been for stability, but we needed to come up with some agreement on visitation. I agreed. I told him that I didn't want her showing up randomly causing a scene. That if she wanted to see the kids or get something from the house,she needed to contact me in advance. He agreed. So he told her she had to leave...

I don't think things turned out the way she planned. I think she thought the cops would show up and just let her go in the house and take whatever she wanted. I was pretty fed up after she left, so I grabbed some garbage bags and packed up the rest of her stuff and put it in the garage. So when she shows up next time to get her things, they are alread neatly and conviently packaged and ready to go.No need to even go inside. I'm so over this crap...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/28/18 03:57 AM
MTB

GOLD FREAKIN STAR FOR COMPOSURE!!!

you handled a volatile and chaotic situation with dignity and poise.

I feel like out WW's are cut from similar cloth, and where i cannot speak with my W right now, i have been using your sitch for a touchstone on what could go wrong when we can.

I seriously am so damn impressed by how you handled that man.

I had to do the same thing with W's belongs for the most part and she fought me each step of the way, and throw all our sentimental items in the trash. Like our entire wedding and her wedding dress, HER family photo albums and much more.

They completely lose all sentimentality. its nuts.

Keep us posted man, youre doing great. your kids will know who the solid person is here. you are one to be looked up to.

Strength to you brother.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/28/18 05:16 AM
mtb, nicely done my friend. she is so desperate and near rock bottom. i figured she'd end up holed up at OM's house. Wait until he gets tired of her. it's coming. then she will hard press you to let her move back home.
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/28/18 07:21 AM
MTB,

Remember when a person loses control of a person that they have been controlling for a while, they start losing control of themselves.

Dont be surprise if she tries to break in the house.

Great job staying composed. The cops saw your composure and knew who was out of control and needs help.

Stay prepared for your kids and the steady craziness coming.

She's not at the bottom yet.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 01:48 AM
W stopped by the house Saturday night (day after the cops showed up). Her demeanor was completely different. Asked me if I wanted to talk. I said not really, but chatted with her for a bit. She was overwhelmingly nice. Wanted me to look at the tires on the van because the tread was really worn. Asked how much new tires cost. Wanted to show me the matching tattoo the her and BFF just got, and some little keychain trinket she bought. I really didn't have much to say, so I just let her do all the talking. after about 5 minutes, she got a text, and said she had to leave to pick someone up, but she still wanted to talk to me and she would get ahold of me on Sunday. She never did, and I'm fine with that. I find it extremely odd that she went from completely mad on Friday and calling the cops to being overly sweet on Saturday wanting to chat me up. Not sure what's going on with this flip flop behavior. I assume she's just trying to butter me and ask for money again...
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 02:28 AM
Wow MTB, this is a real page-turner, LOL! First I'm sorry you're going through this, it must make you feel a little crazy yourself sometimes. Second, congrats on how you are handling everything, you are doing an excellent job of being a rock in all this madness. I just caught up on the last few pages and honestly don't see a single thing you did wrong, so well done!

Regarding the suicide threat, I wouldn't be surprised if she played that card again. And even more concerning, she might actually try it if she feels like she's not getting the reaction she wants. If she says it to you then take it seriously. One of the guys here had a crazy W who called him and ranted and raved and said she was going to kill herself, then I think she headed to his house. He called 911, told them where she was going and what her car looked like and they arrested her while he and the kids looked on and put her on suicide watch in the hospital. That is EXACTLY how such a situation should be handled, so if she goes there with you then seriously consider calling 911.

Good luck and hang in there!
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 03:36 AM
Another thing to remember is her alcohol and drug use. WWs are erratic enough without those fueling even more erratic behavior.

But yes likely she hasn't given up on the money. Thus the niceties and then the not so subtle tire hint.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 11:39 AM
Thanks for the support and advice, guys...

The past few days I've done A LOT better with detaching. I relize that she doesn't want to be with me tight now, and I'm fine with that. The more I think about it, shehas some major issues to work on that don't deal with me at all. A lot of it is her drug abuse. For years, she has struggled with addiction. I did my best to be supportive and get her help, but in her mind I came across as controlling and trying to tell her what she could or couldn't do. Not gonna lie, I was very adamant on her staying sober. She was in a good place before she got the bartending job, but being in that scene and living that lifestyle, the drugs came back into the picture. I think she felt the need to leave so she could live that lifestyle without any interference from me because she knew I wouldn't approve. W can't stand to be alone, so the majority of her time was spent at the bar or with other people that were doing drugs too. She doesn't like to be by herself, because then she has to deal with her thoughts. I guess it's easier for her to keep herself occupied with people that are supporting her decision to get high and leave her family...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 11:56 AM
Also, tomorrow is my 37th birthday and our youngest son's 3rd birthday. I'm assuming that W will try to contact me at some point to see if she can come by to see him or take him to do something. I was planning on taking the kids out to dinner to celebrate our birthdays. Do I just tell her we already have plans and she can see him when we get back, or should I invite her to go along with us? I don't want to keep her from seeing the kids, but at the same time, I don't think I should change my plans...
Posted By: joejoe1 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 04/30/18 01:20 PM
MTB,

Don't change your plans, give her the invitation. Its still her son. AS talks about detaching with love. IMO it's the right thing to do, to invite your son mother to his party. He will love if she shows up.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 01:12 AM
joejoe, are you saying that I should call her and invite her, or I should invite her if she calls? Wouldn't me calling her be considered pursuit? I really don't mind her coming with us, but I've been doing well with non-pursuit and detaching lately and I don't want to have any setbacks or make myself too available...
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 02:42 AM
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
MTB,

Don't change your plans, give her the invitation. Its still her son. AS talks about detaching with love. IMO it's the right thing to do, to invite your son mother to his party. He will love if she shows up.


^^^Exactly!^^^

Originally Posted By: mtb1981
joejoe, are you saying that I should call her and invite her, or I should invite her if she calls? Wouldn't me calling her be considered pursuit?


Call her, tell her your plans and invite her along. When it's something like this for the kids then IMO it's not pursuit. Michele says in one of her books that it is fine to invite a WAS along for something that you are doing whether they go or not. IE, if you're taking the kids to the zoo then you can say "hey we're going to the zoo Saturday at 10:00, you're welcome to join if you wish." Whether she says yes or no YOU STILL GO. That's the difference, it's not a "date" if you're going whether she joins or not.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 03:35 AM
I think I'm gonna wait until after I get off work to see if she contacts me first. Not gonna lie, the thought of spending time with someone that's cheating on me, lying to me, and treating me like crap kind of turns my stomach. On top that, S8's birthday was a month ago, and we went out for dinner that night too. I called and invited her, she said she would go, then came up with a BS excuse to ditch at the last minute. I'd hate for him to feel bad bc mommy can show up for his brother's birthday, but blew him off. That being said, I do agree that I should at least extend an invite, but I'm gonna wait until I get off work and give her the chance to contact me first...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 07:06 AM
W just sent me a text saying "Happy Birthday". I just replied with "Thanks"... This has been the first contact since Saturday night when she showed up being all nice...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 09:13 AM
Just got another text from W asking what my plans were for tonight because she wanted to see the kids and celebrate S3's birthday. I told her we were going to have dinner at 6:00 and she was welcome to come...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 09:19 AM
Good move MTB, Let us know how it goes for you~!
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/01/18 01:27 PM
Well... She texted back at 4:30 and said she would meet us at the restaraunt. Next thing you know, she's pulling in the driveway at 5:00. Said she "had some stuff to do" and wouldn't be able to make it to dinner with I us, and asked if she could come by tomorrrow to pick up the kids and take them out for dinner. I told her that was fine. She spent about 10 minutes talking to the kids, and I went outside. She came out and asked if she could join me while she smoked a cigarette. I said sure. She said she wanted to grab a few pairs of pants from the house because the ones she had didn't fit anymore. She was being really pleasant again, but that was about to change...

It didn't take long, and she asked me for the $2000 again. I flat out told her no. She claimed she talked to a lawyer earlier in the day and they told her she was entitled to half of the tax money, and she was being nice only asking for $2000. That if she wanted to, she could take half of everything. I informed her that also included half of out debt too. $15000 in credit card bills, and another $10,000 we owed to my parents from a loan they gave us for the down payment on our house. She said she understood that, but wanted the $2000 now because she needed it to buy things for her new place. I again told her no...

I fibbed a little and told her that the money was all gone. That I had given it all to my parents to pay off some of our debt. That there was none left and to quit asking for it. At that moment, my mom pulled in to drop a birthday present for S3. W went and asked her if I had given them the money to pay off the debt, and my mom told her I did. She tried telling my mom that half of that money was hers, and my mom explained that she still owed them money, so it really didn't matter. This made W mad, so she said she was leaving...

I asked her if she still wanted some of her clothes, and she said yes, so I opened the garage door so she could grab the clothes I had already packed into garbage bags for her after the police incident on Friday. This made her even more angry, but I just kept my cool. She marched into the house and to the bedroom, looked in the closet, and realized that I had packed up all of her stuff. Even more angry now. She grabbed a box and strated putting small random decporations and other miscellaneous personal items that I had not packed. I just stood there and watched her to make sure she didn't take anything she wasn't supposed to. This made her even more angry."Are you just gonna stand there and stare at me the whole time?".... Yes...

Afetr she filled the box, she went back outside and started putting the bags from the garage in the van. She told me to leave the door unlocked tomorrow so her and her friends could come by and grab the rest of her stuff (A shelf and deep freezer that her mom had baught us). I told her no. I didn't want her and her friends wandering around my house while I wasn't there. She said fine, that she would just bust a window and break in because the cops said there was nothing I could do if she did. She then asked for the title to the van which is in my name only. I told her no. That I would give it to her after she got the rest of her stuuf out while I was there sometime if my windows were still intact. I was then called every name in the book. I just smiled and nodded. When she was done ranting, I told her to give me a call nect time she wanted to stop by and grab her stuff. She got in the van, told me to eff off, and peeled out of the driveway. Ain't life grand?...
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/02/18 04:19 AM
What I did last night is very anti-DBing, but I think I'm over trying to save this. I'm tired of being used and lied to. W told me she has nothing to do with OM and that she doesn't want anything to do with him, yet last night I was informed that the van was parked at his house. The van is in my name, I pay the registration and insurance, and I really don't want any of my resources being used for her to see OM. So, I got a ride over there and took the van back. Parked it in my garage where she has no access to it. This morning, she called and wanted it back I told her exactly what I typed out above. If she wants to run around with OM that she denies running around with, he can pick her up and drop her off, but I'm not paying for her transportation to screw around. So I had to deal with the police again this morning. They told me that since the van was in my name, she had no rights to it. They just needed to stop by to make sure I had it and it wasn't stolen. They apologized for bothering me and left...
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/02/18 04:41 AM
SHe is shooting herself in the foot over and over again.

Keep your composure and keep up the good DBing.

I have a similar situation to deal with tomorrow. Court for a trumped up BS Crim Mischief charge.
At least you have the law on your side MTB. I am already being assumed guilty of something I didnt do.
Posted By: OrangeK Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/02/18 04:43 AM
I agree that i am getting to the tipping point of not wanting R at all myself. Im just so angry at her manipulative BS and lies. She still has a whole camp thinking she is perfect and innocent. Its enough to make me sick. The only thing keeping me going is i know that she will eventually burn EACH and EVERY one of those bridges. With her Job, new friends, and OM. All will be manipulated and discarded eventually.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/03/18 03:47 AM
I gave the van back to W last night. After a lot of thinking I came to the conclusion that I wanted W to know that I knew where she was at. Otherwise, she would have continues to lie and deny being over there. Even if I just drove by and saw the van there with my own eyes, she would have denied it. She will only admit to something if she is caught in the act, otherwise she just lies through her teeth. I packed up the rest of her stuff and put it in the van. Called her and told her that I never wanted to really take it from her, but I needed her to be honest with me and knew that would be one of the few ways she would come clean. I told her that she needed the van to be able to look for a job, and her and OM could do whatever they wanted from this point on. No more point in trying to hide it. She thanked me for giving her the van and was very cordial. Admitted to hanging out with OM a lot in the past weeks, but they were "Just friends". I told her I didn't care what they were. It's none of my business anymore. She mentioned something about things between us working out in the future, aand I told her that was something I am not interested in right now. Kept the convo short and sweet. I think this is the first time she has realized that I am done with the M. She said she wanted to see the kids and would be back later in the evening to see them. She never showed up...
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/03/18 04:22 AM
Wow. Obviously OM is keeping her from hitting rock bottom. He will get tired of feeding her at some point I am sure. Plus she has not way to not get evicted from the apartment at this point. Don't be surprised that in the next couple of months if she doesn't show up talking about R because she has no where else to go.

mtb, you have to be strong.

As far as her breaking a window to get in? Read this:

I wouldn't rule a RO out of the question either.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/03/18 05:45 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
Don't be surprised that in the next couple of months if she doesn't show up talking about R because she has no where else to go.


I've thought about this alot. R is only going to happen if she shows a genuine change and desire to be with me. Not just because she needs a place to stay.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/04/18 02:45 AM
I've been thinking a lot lately on what my next step is, and I guess I've got 3 choices...

1) File for D - Just put an end to it all, and try to get custody of the kids because she's not a fit mother right now. Decide on how we will split everything and go on our own ways. I believe that this route would be final, as she tends to hold grudges, and I will always be the bad guy that divorced her and took the kids...

2) File for Legal Separation - Protect myself from any bad financial decisions she makes, and try to get custody of the kids because she's not a fit mother right now. I'm not sure about the law, but it may be possible that going this route, we would not have to determine the splitting of possessions, sell the house, etc. I have a feeling I would still be the bad guy, but this is something that would be easier for her to get over if she did change and R became a possibility in the distant future...

3) Sit back and wait it out - We are already physically separated, and she has everything out of the house that she wants. She has made no effort to spend time with the kids, and I don't know how much that will change, so I basically have custody anyway. It was her idea to split, so she can do all the legwork to make a divorce happen. Which in that case, I am back to #1. With this option, I believe there may be a better chance of R if she does end up making the changes she needs to make in her life, because the D would not be on me...

One thing I know for sure is that I'm going to continue on making the best life for me and my kids. W is no longer a priority...
Posted By: AnotherStander Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/04/18 03:03 AM
mtb, if you think she may make some bad financial choices that you need to insulate yourself from then 1 or 2 are your only options. Talk to a lawyer as the laws vary widely from state-to-state regarding whether you're financially insulated in a legal separation versus D.

If you're right about her holding a grudge over you pushing the D through, then you've got to ask if that is someone you want to be married to anyway. She's the one that BD'd and moved out, but yet she's going to blame YOU for filing for D? I mean that say more about her than you.

You're up to 10 pages so time for a new thread. Post the link to the new one as your last post here and a link to this one as your first post in the new one.
Posted By: SteveLW Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/04/18 03:06 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
Wow. Obviously OM is keeping her from hitting rock bottom. He will get tired of feeding her at some point I am sure. Plus she has not way to not get evicted from the apartment at this point. Don't be surprised that in the next couple of months if she doesn't show up talking about R because she has no where else to go.

mtb, you have to be strong.

As far as her breaking a window to get in? Read this:

I wouldn't rule a RO out of the question either.


Sorry!! Forgot. frown My bad.

mtb, look up legal advice related to her break in threat.
Posted By: mtb1981 Re: Hanging On (Saying ILY Pt. 2) - 05/04/18 04:16 AM
Link to new thread...

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2788170&#Post2788170
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