25years mlc 10 years pass I FILE #9 LAST LAP

I'm going to cut and paste the last few posts to update my new thread.

Divorce to be final within weeks...

FROM ME

Feb 24, 2018

I am alive, in the process of healing and settling with h. Or VERY soon to be ex h. Our divorce will be finalized soon, especially since HE wants to be declared single asap (not shocked that he's probably wanting to be engaged or married asap, b/c if he doesn't marry OW exit affair, then he might look as if he's blown up a family merely for a place obsession/job?

Oh, wait, he did that a decade ago when he missed our d28's junior/senior year of high school. And then most of our d20's second half of life in home. H does not learn from his errors and I mean that. He repeats them as if they did not damage to others...

SO I hired a PI. Very Jerry Springer of me

and yet, my PI guy tracked h to work (yes WORK, not "retirement" - as if ) and h's name is on the building--- I mean seriously?

AND H advertises presentations on the procedures they offer now and has added credentials and renewed his medical license (but wait, he "retired" and that was why he cut our d20 off of college...right????)

Christ I think literally everything he wrote to d20 in the "cut off tuition" letter was a lie and she must know that by now.

ouch.

and his brazenness....Name on the building!

Then I saw his expenses of him and his OW and HER Daughter and all their travels

while our youngest works 2 jobs and is cut off. I will never understand his choices b/c we do not share the same moral compass.

but then his offer for "global settlement" (as opposed to just spousal support) was upped. I know he will earn a lot more and I know he's hidden money. I could keep fighting for more but I want to live my life and I had a clause put in about whether he's hiding assets and I discover it, they are mine, not just half.

I still have other things to say about spouses who take all the savings and then leave...or file.

As for the settlement, It's not fair or equitable, and he 's a bullying liar with a cruel streak, but it is "enough" for me, and I would like to be done now. I have a life to live. If I'm smart with money (and I will be), I don't care if h wins the lottery. And I'm better off than 90% of the women on the planet, I'll be alright.

More later....

I appreciate you guys a lot.

25, how go things with the new guy? What�s the news?

Hi Maybell

Yes M and I are still an "item." We see each other a few times a week and speak every day. He's moved here to the area full time now.

His divorce is also out of state, and he's been sep 4 years (and attended divorce care at least 2 years ago b/c our facilitator told me.) HIS divorce is still pending and should finalize in April.

Normally I'd have thought I'd never date someone who wasn't legally divorced,

but I was wrong. A 4 year separation physical and marital, convinced me that it was safe and with no chance of me being an OW.

Obviously there was a ton of inertia on both sides...(just fyi, he filed months before we met. I'm not being defensive, just saying this b/c NONE of us wants to be an affair partner. Or a factor in a divorce, at all. )

In fact, a man asked me out about 6 weeks ago and he said he was separated but he's in the same house and nothing has been filed. To me, that's "still married". Or worse, he's just a liar...

M and I get along quite well. He spent time and energy planning Valentine's Day and it was refreshing to me to see EFFORT on my partner's part, that it was very touching.

M is very intelligent and quite the engineer, but it can mean he takes things too literally and forgets to let himself go with laughing. This matters to me b/c as we age, the ability to laugh will only grow with time, as other things may fade in importance.

i want passion & chemistry and I had a lot of it in my m. (So, I realize that it can help mask problems. It may not be so crucial in the long run.)

But HUMOR - If a man makes me laugh, that's at least 3 points on a scale of 10. Maybe 4.

If he gets my jokes and laughs at those jokes and with me, that's a solid 2-3 and if we can just laugh at the same things, then that's 2+.
Part of this is just "getting me".

H got me, when it came to humor, and we laughed hard as heck, often. I know he thought I was hilarious (and I am). So There are moments I wonder "gosh, I KNOW H thinks I'm hilarious but does he even let himself go there in his head to remember that, or is he so wrapped up in being right that he's furious at ME??"

And then I slap myself back into reality and say "not my concern". That's when I say that prayer about giving up "the need to know why, as we will never know why...and that "endless questioning is endless suffering"...

Anyhow, re M, you know what? M's not proposing marriage at the moment. So he's not really something I have to worry about at the moment.

IF we are simply 2 people who comforted and guided each other through a terribly difficult time in our lives, and IF we don't rush into things b/c we are hurting so much, but simply appreciate having the other for this "plane crash" time in our lives,

I'm very okay with that. And I think he is too.

But we act like a couple. Not sure how else to say that.

Also
I went back to the personal growth workshop I've referred to before. ("Essential Experience" in Philadelphia). Thank GOD! I'm in such a better place than I was just last week.

Taking h's actions much less personally. If someone lies to you and you feel they've made a fool of you, try to reframe it. Their fooling you is not making YOU the fool...quite the contrary. Make sense?

Crappy things happen to all of us at some point. They vary greatly in how severely they affect us. But the point becomes moot along the way. We do all face loss. Seriously, we ALL will or have. Or are.

When we are ready to not let it define us or control how every day feels for us, we just have to say to ourselves, "yes, that wrong thing happened. You WERE betrayed. That really hurt..." Ideally we process that, and then in a spirit of hope and adventure, we ask 'what's next?"

Because we have to stop checking the rear view mirror. This past weekend I moved several steps forward by working on this and working through it, and feeling what I'd been telling myself in my head for months.

H mistreated me off and on for a long time. I avoided looking at that. I deflected and did not seem to realize how much anger and resentment he had developed (and cultivated) at ME. That's HIS bag of poop to carry around, not mine.

And then he really tried to screw me over in the divorce, and just behaved miserably towards me and our kids. Sure I wonder how he justifies himself. "Oh 25 charged her retainer on 'MY' credit card! She filed in CA b/c it was a 'better venue'" and other random inane justifications. I know this b/c he put it in his pleadings as if it meant something nefarious.

No matter. He can tell people AND he can believe I'm a purple lesbian dinosaur who eats babies, but his data is not real. It has to roll off my back and not even enter my realm of awareness.

What I KNOW is, he treated ME badly. He showed no signs of altering course in a good or consistent way. Quite the contrary.

So ^^^^ that's all that matters now, to me. That he's not the man I can live with the rest of my life.

For years I convinced myself, somehow, that he was as invested in the marriage and family as I was. DB beliefs enabled me to imagine his "shame is why he's repressed/quiet/angry".

But I was mistaken. I am not sure he felt shame, but if he did, it did not create change in his choices so, it matters NOT. And I will forgive myself for not realizing this sooner.

I do not fear that suddenly h will have a character transplant and be great for OW, that he'll be selfless instead of selfish. Certainly not over time.

But If somehow, if he magically becomes a better man with or for her, so be it. I will take that as a sign that he's learned something from losing his marriage and family b/c he sure wasn't around for us and did not show up for us, for a long time. Why? Because he did not want to.

it's like if h burned the house down, and I have to stop saying "But h would never light our house on fire...HE would Not do that. If he did, WHY??"

Yes he would do that. Yes he did. I will never know why or understand it. He has very different values than I do. Which I now know. If I'd known this is who he really is, I'd have cut him loose a decade ago.

The house is now in ashes. That's what he did to our m. It's gone. It's done.

And you know, far worse things have happened to others and they have said "yes, that was terrible. But it is done. Now what? What's next?" Reading about the Lost Boys of Sudan and that guy faced one terrible ordeal after another, and each time he persevered and was more or less saying "okay, that was painful. That's done. What is next?" He never gave up and he did not keep revisiting the injustices and cruelties he suffered. He kept going, and he carried hope with him along the way.

So to paraphrase what Sheryl Sandberg wrote in her book after her husband died suddenly,

"The life I had planned was Option A. Option A is Not an option anymore. So Let's kick a$$ with Option B."

I'm at peace with this^^^ more & more.
The workshop helped me process a lot of grief (first time my mother's death was faced in a way that allowed me to grieve that too). I gained clarity and this, ^^^ is what I knew in my head, before, but now is sinking into my heart.

I was heartbroken and in grief when I came here last year and shared what happened.

I am healing and steering myself forward more and more each week. For now, that's enough.

Quote:

Crappy things happen to all of us at some point. They vary greatly in how severely they affect us. But the point becomes moot along the way. We do all face loss. Seriously, we ALL will or have. Or are.

I really liked this 25 and it is so true. If your lucky to live long enough eventually you will experience all of the emotions that life has to offer. Why should any of us be any different to think that we will get through life without experiencing pain.

As Jimmy V said at the ESPY's there are 3 things we should do every day in our lives to help get us through the day...laugh, think and have our emotions moved to tears. If we do this every day, 7 days a week that is a full life.

When I step back and look at my life I am a truly blessed individual. Maybe my marriage didn't work as I hoped but I won't let that one aspect keep me down.

There are so many things in life that most of us take for granted we just need to keep this pain in perspective.

I hope you will post more often.

You have a very lovely way of putting the necessary components of healing into words and analogies.

Betrayal, rejection, cruelty, and loss from those we trusted and loved and committed ourselves to are very difficult feelings and actions to come to terms with.

I often think, (ruminate?) on similar topics. I much less eloquently have been likening the trying to understand my ex to trying to understand a serial killer. And projecting my own feelings of love, empathy, morals, and logic onto one. Kind of a waste no?

Thank you for your reflections. They are always filled with depth, and wisdom.

25 I absolutely hear you on the way the courts deal with disintegrating marriages vs other breaches of contract or regulatory offences. Why should marriage, which is lauded as "more than just a piece of paper" because it has legal significance, be treated as anything less than a partnership agreement?

There are rights and obligations in partnerships that if are not explicitly spelled out in the agreement are still there in law. If one partner acts dishonestly or to the detriment of the other, they would be negatively impacted in a court-ordered asset split. Why shouldn't it be the same for marriage partners?

My XH seemed to deeply care about the whole family's welfare (including mine), but his actions showed it was always all about him. He presented much of the family expenditure on his career requirements as 'investment', and we all just had to take it on trust that everybody else's wants had to go second. It wasn't until he siphoned money out of our joint account after separation that I realised the values I thought we'd shared for well over two decades were just window dressing for him.

Now XH is reaping the benefits of our investment in his career - and crying poor to anybody who will listen. Sometimes I sit back and wonder how I didn't see how badly misaligned our values and morals really were. Now, I often ask myself, "If I met this man for the first time tonight would I be romantically interested?"

I really don't think I would. Who wants to date somebody who moans about money yet talks incessantly about his expensive car, his overseas trips, private jets and multi-thousand dollar gadgets?

Very good points on how marriage is handled legally. Obviously, I think the legal system has tried to run away from making marriage more binding because it involves affairs of the heart. Once you get feelings involved, logic usually goes out the window.

I've often said that the problem with marriage these days is that it is too easy to get into, and too easy to get out of. If you made it more difficult you'd see the divorce rate plummet. Of course, you'd also see a huge increase in the number of couples that just live together. Which statistically is another contributing factor to the divorce rate. (See the stats on couples that live together before marriage vs those that do not.)

I AM DIVORCED...

I learned of this 2 days ago. But the divorce was final on the 26th. At first it really bothered me that my L had not given me advance notice, since I told her specifically I wanted to know in advance.

I guess I wanted to mark the day in some form.??

Turns out it's a bit less stressful not to know the exact moment your 35 year marriage ends.

A bit anti climatic however. And I cannot for the life of me recall what I did last Monday.

But a man who lied to me a lot and for so very long, who walked away from a long marriage, a marriage in which I made the bulk of emotional investments and ALL the sacrifices,

a man who has not seen our children in over 18 months and who cut off our youngest from college tuition despite his HUGE income,

who lied to her and the courts about said income,

who spent Money on OW and HER D, all while pleading poverty to the courts and to our own children, and while our d20 works 2 jobs and goes to college,

was now legally out of my life.

Like I said, I cannot recall what I was doing last Monday. But I survived.

So far, not a tear has been shed, though when I had a flashback of my late mother and thought if she were here, I'd have told her I "Mom, I have had a rough year"

THAT^^ made me sad.

Not so much the loss of h. His true colors are now revealed. THAT is not to be missed.

My eyes are open now. The years of my believing that exh was "confused" or "MLC" are over and the knowledge that he's malignantly entitled, selfish in the extreme, has helped me to accept that I am truly better off. I know this now.

Any OW who would stay with a man who had done the things he's done the past 17 months,

is not interested in love or commitment. I sometimes imagine that EX H must know at some level, the truth about OW and she knows at some level the truth about him.

So he better spend more...or just not go there, which is the more likely path. H is the least self aware smart man I've ever known. Literally. And the way we all overlook OPs flaws when we first engage with them, may help avoid the truth for some amount of time...

So the question could be "will he resent ME or HER for his lousy r's with the kids?"

You'd think at some point he'd turn to her to blame...b/c I can only be the uniting target of hate and blame, for so long. I mean, I assume.

Really, the only thing I'm sure of is h won't blame himself for ANY of the life he is leading now or will realize he is living.

AND I won't know what he's doing or thinking b/c I will be "elsewhere" for that crapstorm.

Oh the drama and chaos of it all. So much instability being married to him. So much second guessing and self doubting.

Wondering HOW to lower his "restlessness" (which I now see was simply a very big streak of selfishness in him)

how to appease his goals so they would not cost our family so very much...which he never once acknowledged or apologized for ("moving again in high school? You'll like the new place!" - not even admitting it was going to be very very hard for THEM, b/c it was not hard for HIM...)

The job of compensating for the costs of HIS choices inflicted on all of us, is NOT mine anymore.

I am semi amazed at how calm I feel, even though the thing I fought SO HARD to avoid, for so long, has happened.

The marriage is over. I mean it's legally and emotionally and relationally over.

I met him when I was 19 and fell in love pretty fast and very deeply.

I've known and loved him for more ALL of my adult life. But I survived. And I'm more than okay.

I did a LOT of work this past year. Found a very good proactive therapist who did not merely sit and listen to me. She challenged me to reframe things, held me accountable for making changes I wanted to make in my life and steered me back to MY path, off of his, time and time again.

I joined a good Divorce Care group and I reached out to old close friends and I made new ones. To a healthy extent, I GAL but I also relished the alone time I had for the first time in my life, living alone. And liking it fine.

I dug deep. Faced a lot of disillusioned realizations about myself and how much I projected my morals and values onto a man who simply did NOT share them or apply them to himself. I was in major denial. And I see myself as being self aware but I could NOT see that xh was just not that into our marriage or family. He seemed to like the part time aspect of seeing kids and a wife on weekends only - if that. Mostly he enjoyed doing what HE liked doing and not answering to anyone and not having anyone place expectations on him. How loving and mature...oh wait, I mean the opposite.

He greatly lowered any expectations I had of him, to the point where almost nothing was expected of him and everything was expected of me.

Although I'll never see his choices the past 2 years as anything but terrible betrayals, I am able to see that those choices reflect on HIM, not me.

I am dating M, and while it should not take OM to convince me of the following - it helps

anyhow, he reminds me of what a sensual woman I am, thinks I'm hilarious and popular for a reason, that I'm super smart and deserving of so much good in my life.

XH cannot do that ^^^for me. OR would not. I'd never KNOW these things are really true and always have been, if I were still with Xh.

I do pray for my children, that somehow they can heal even without a loving father in their lives.

I pray that he will reach out to them in time, but only if he can make amends to them.

No more weird pretenses that he has not abandoned or deeply wounded them, again...

The idea of his taking ownership of his inflicting pain on them, seems so unrealistic that I almost don't dare to hope. He'd need humility to make amends, and that's not something he does. I cannot recall a single event in which he seemed genuinely remorseful for the right reasons (as opposed to self pity for how HE suffered being far from family, even and always by his own solo choice...)

Oh well. I will pray and then drop it, as his choices have taken up SO much more of my attention and head space and caused so much heartbreak to me, it's like self inflicted pain to ponder anything he does or will do, anymore.

So, back to MY life now...

Thanks for hanging in there.

25

He went Alaskan, and now he stays there.

It's some kind of Karma.

Go do cartwheels, snuggle your guy, kiss the kids, drink vino and hear me cheer for you.

You are FREE.

FREE

FREE

V

Thank you V. Means a lot.

In the final analysis, there comes a time when we must simply accept reality. (Oh how I resisted this!)

Back in my first DB days, I was just incapable of seeing that ex h was NOT as invested in our family and marriage as I was. I could not see that, I had explanations for his behaviors and incessantly asked "WHY??? How could he do this?? Please untangle this skein for me..." I imagined there was a reason behind his choices, other than the most obvious one (I once told d28, when she was 16, and h went off on his first Alaskan misadventure, that he was "confused and priorities were out of place", to which she said she thought "he is not confused, he's just selfish."

I rejected her statement and argued with her. (Seriously! WTF was I on?? HOPIUM!)

If he lied, if he lied by omission, if he lashed out in anger, I always, always decoded wrongly. I'd imagine his shame and remorse as the reason behind his hiding/lying.

(I'm not sure he felt much remorse but at Retrovaille he did for a few hours and I clung to that evidence as PROOF that he still cared!!! And he did...and then he chose himself, again. And seethed with resentment when he did not get his way, but never expressed it in decipherable ways)

His lashing out was ---- guilt!?! I could "love him through this". I pretzeled myself to make sense of his choices b/c I did not accept what is now obvious.

I was wrong, and I see that now.

When I first realized how wrong I was, I was devastated by "all the wasted years". I thought if you love someone deeply and suddenly it hits you that they really truly mistreated you, and you stayed anyhow...well,

THEN you think YOU are a fool, or you deserved it, -b/c if the person you loved the most in the world AND whom you assumed loved you most in the world, rejects or mistreats you, it's about you, right?

YOU must not be the good person you thought. All those flaws in YOU must be really big and numerous and you are, in effect, unworthy of loyalty and love. There must be other horrible things about you that THEY saw and could not love anymore...this is a devastating belief...OR there's something really weak in you to endure the mistreatment.

The past 16 months I have processed and experienced all of these^^^ reactions. I have dug deep and truthfully as best I can. I may discover more later,

but at this point, here's my summary:

I know that a terrible injustice has been done to me. Some nights (when the cognitive guards & awareness are lowered), I get sucked into the stomach punched feelings all over again. It feels sickening.

But in the daytime, when I am clear headed, I understand 2 things.

1) MOST people in the world have had graver injustices done to them, and yet they go on. And so must we.

It's not just saying "Hey it could be worse". No, it's saying "let's learn from these others about why they are happy NOW, given the terrible things done to them. How do they get past the crapstorm of injustice done to them? How are they happy, now? How can I do the same?"

AND

2) I have X number of years left on earth. That's simply true. So I ask myself how I want to spend those years. Seems there are 2 options:

a) I can spend those years staring at the pain my ex inflicted on me and our beautiful innocent children. I can ask and wonder when it's going to be "fair", when will Karma kick him in the stomach, when will ex h & OW suffer for the damage they have done?

I can keep Looking at their lives to gauge how MY life is going. I can continue to wonder about the "contest" equation...

how and when will I "WIN"?
When will it be fair?

h has a very consistent history of NOT seeing or admitting the damage he inflicts on others (and that is really a narcissistic trait in him). And he tended to repeat mistakes, so you have to wonder what he ever learned when it came to HIS choices affecting others. Maybe nothing. But it tells me that a reconciliation (even post divorce- which has happened in my family) is impossible b/c he learns nothing from his past mistakes and the reason he won't reconnect with our children (meaningfully, I mean) is b/c he won't see or admit or humbly ask for forgiveness for, HIS mistakes and the pain HE inflicted on them.

So it's never going to be "fair" in this^^^ sense.

OR

b) I can spend these remaining years making the most out of my time on earth. To take
ex h out of my equation and remove him from my own contest.

I'd do this at first, for my children to see and learn from. They will face setbacks and heartbreak in their lives. They must learn to know that they can be happy and successful, again.

And I do this new "me only" equation for ME, b/c I deserve happiness, respect and appreciation from the people in my life.

It's totally & exclusively up to me to create that, going forward. I have moments wherein I feel very betrayed, (moments that keep me up at night about 2 x a week, down from 6 nights a week).

As time passes, there are more and more times where I feel what you say, Vanilla, which is

I AM FREE. For the first time in my adult life, I am not married to a sometimes charming but always taking, man. It's a change forced upon me in a brutal way, but there IS an upside, a choice, to embrace change. It is the only way to face this in a healthy way.

No more disrespect, no more self doubting questions about what motivates or soothes the xh. No more "itchy sweater questions about whether he's "really all in".

No more hurtful gut punches - b/c even if he marries OW tomorrow (or already has. Who knows?) - it's NOT in my sandbox. It's not about me. Nothing to suggest happiness or greatness for them, and nothing to suggest otherwise.

Totally out of my control and totally NOT about me. I know this, now. It took a long time to release the illusion of my ability to affect his choices.

HE IS NOT ON MY PATH.

MY future is on my path, my work is in MY sandbox and not his sandbox. I will not measure, though I will backslide. After each backslide, I will get back on my path.
I will have fewer backslides and in time, very few.

(I think it's a bit Like meditation, in which you lose track of your centeredness or deep breathing, and your inner peace, but then you go right back to it. The journey back to peace IS part of this process and it's a goal in itself.

XH and I were once on a path together in life.

Somewhere along the way, he took a turn off the path. We had our son and my path was modified b/c I adjusted to being a mother in a way that accommodated parenting. H did not. He sought out his goals as if no child or competing needs existed. I really didn't get that, b/c he SAID WORDS to the effect of still being on the same path, or a parallel path that would reconnect to our joint path, "right around the next corner/after this next job/training year/move", his goals meant a life time of deferred gratification for others, never admitted...never acknowledged.

--- And I did not see & accept that he was on a different path until it was blindingly, painfully obvious. **

*(That was due to my projecting MY values onto him, still believing he was as invested in "us" as I had always been. That somehow he was confused, or the right path was blocked by distractions and confusion on his end, that he just didn't realize he was off of the "right path" and he was on some crazy "MLC path"... but that he WOULD absolutely awaken)

I never believed that he was simply too selfish & entitled to be a fair husband or committed father. I see this now.

Now, Whatever HE is doing or wherever HE is going, is unknown. And impossible to decipher anyhow.

I'm on my path, and he's not, and that's all I need to know.

MY path is the journey of self discovery one makes when - for the first time in their life they are on their own.

Yes I am terrified, and Yes I am very curious and Yes I am increasingly thrilled.

This is me feeling free. This is me feeling brave.

Thank you 25. this was very well written. and I am glad I saw your post Our Friend Lady V uses and expression that I will paraphrase, once seen can never be unseen.

it is our denial and fear to actually look with open eyes at what has been going on in our lives, all those years, that holds us back.

you have finally seen the light of truth. proud you were brave enough to take those steps to free you of what was holding you back.

A few thoughts on Karma.

Karma, isn't what we think it is or expect it to be. It isn't pay back inflicted from the outside in. Karma is from the inside out.

Karma is reality and it bites.

Karma is an empty heart, not an empty wallet.

Karma is not a wedding ring or failed R, Karma is being incapable of having intimacy that is real. Karma is failure to connect to your children but love bombing other children.

Karma is pretence and not authenticity.

Karma is having a mask with no true personality not being superficially charming.

Karma has already arrived and was there all along. If you look very careful your ex is already in Karma.

Waste, all of this isn't waste, nor was your love, for you 25 had love and hope. You stood because you needed and wanted to and that was your desire at the time. You did the best you could with the insights you had at that time, you have beautiful children. You had love. Love is never a waste not ever.

You can beat yourself up if you wish, nothing will change about the past, it is as it is. It is gone never to return. The love stays with you, it was love for you too and the fact it fell on Alaskan wastes does not mean it wasn't real or valuable. It has the value you gave it, and actually it doesn't matter who that div is, because you are the love you gave, it is in your very cells and being. You have the treasure in your heart and that is the very best it can be.

And now you are free, it's unfamiliar, but the gift of love is not unfamiliar. Choose to see the ability to love as the greatest of all gifts. Love and freedom what a combination. You dearest 25 have the most important thing of all, yourself.

Celebrate, it is going to be glorious, I Internet promise.

Post traumatic growth beckons for you, I see it clearly for you. And it is rare, embrace your shift, your higher power is connecting for great growth.

Those are my thoughts and as the impressive Zephyr says, now you know and can never unknow.

V

((( thank you both )))

I'm glad to read that you are feeling how you do and have come out the other side.

Originally Posted By: Steve85

Very good points on how marriage is handled legally. Obviously, I think the legal system has tried to run away from making marriage more binding because it involves affairs of the heart. Once you get feelings involved, logic usually goes out the window.

I'm not sure you can ever remove emotion from a marriage or ending one. We think we are being fair, but fairness is something that requires a 3rd party unless somehow both parties agree.

I hear about "amicable divorces" - but I don't personally know anyone who says they had that experience.

I've often said that the problem with marriage these days is that it is too easy to get into, and too easy to get out of. If you made it more difficult you'd see the divorce rate plummet.

For me, divorce was much harder than I expected. Much more expensive and much more personally tortuous, much more gut wrenching to read his pleadings (& it as a no fault divorce!),

So much more painful than I could have guessed...I suspect that for xh, it was also much worse than he expected. I have heard that he looked unwell and and seemed very sad, but I'll never know why or what was happening in his head/heart.

I like to think if xh had known what would happen to his r's with our children that he'd do things very differently. I certainly hope so.

OTOH, I learned things about xh that I could not have known before hand, or without this grueling ordeal.

And now that I know these^^^ things, it's best for me to be without xh. He's capable of great cruelty and deceit.

So it's darn hard to say we should be together.

Somewhat paradoxically, I also know with all my heart that my xh has lost a woman who was loyal and who loved him as no other woman will or could.

(We endured years of poverty so he could pursue a 2nd career in medicine, & we had children while I was in law school and while he was in medical school...the first 9 years of marriage, one of us was in professional school and then he had 5 more years of training, with relentlessly long hours, again.

We buried 3 parents, moved countless times (always for him). I hear women "joke" (not) that they want to "marry a rich doctor". Well, It's easy to marry a board certified specialist physician. It's not so easy to marry a student so poor we lived in a mobile home for 3 years...but I did. And I was crazy about him.

Anyway, as Vanilla said, I loved deeply and I really like that about myself. A lot. And I'm sure I will love again.

That's a big thing to know.

Of course, you'd also see a huge increase in the number of couples that just live together. Which statistically is another contributing factor to the divorce rate. (See the stats on couples that live together before marriage vs those that do not.)

Not to quibble, b/c I think I take your point. Still - I think the factor that binds some couples together more is having similar religious views. They need to have Similar views of the relationship and what it means to work on it, (and perhaps they probably tend not to live together before marriage - though this would be very hard to measure.)

I lived with xh before m. We were married 35 years. Our divorce had nothing to do with living together before marriage.

What is it you suggest couples do for before m? I think attending more pre marriage counseling is a good idea, but you'd both have to have similar views of marriage before hand. Hard to know, but you'd both have to measure progress or the condition of the marriage, the same way. If you reconcile with your wife, I suggest this be a major focus b/c if you don't have the same gauge for measuring, how would you KNOW things are good or bad or so so?

In our case, xh became atheist about 5 years ago (that I know of. Maybe it happened earlier and he did not share that with me).

xh's behavior changed and his poor choices were solidified by losing his faith.

Not sure which happened first, losing his faith and then making selfish choices - or making the selfish choices and looking around to escape guilt by denying his moral compass. Nor am I saying THAT was it. But it was part of why we are divorced now.

It bothered me a lot at the time but in that situation there's just not a lot a spouse can do if the other one decides they no longer believe in God and sort of spring it on you. I think going to church together is a really good thing.

Not sure. But you know what?

Not my problem. Never going to know what went on in him. I can wonder if he was always that selfish and hid it well, with the mask slipping later. Or just changed...

So I'll (again) repeat what Caroline Myss says -

"help me let go of the need to know why. I will never know why. And endless questioning is endless suffering."

Originally Posted By: Henwen

I'm glad to read that you are feeling how you do and have come out the other side.

Thanks Henwen. I will stop by your thread soon.

I wanted to comment on forgiveness and something I read that resonated.

Desmond Tutu - spoke about forgiveness. He and said that anger and even hate could be next to forgiveness. Betrayal stinks.

But he said that what really mattered was that We become better people on the other side of this ordeal than we were before it.

I feel as if I'm getting there. That matters to me.

What you said about H becoming an atheist struck a chord. My W also lost her faith, and things really changed around that time. Granted, she was going through a lot physically, but it makes me wonder. I went to a wedding last summer, and the priest mentioned that in couples that worship together, divorce is very, very rare. I can't confirm the accuracy of that statement, but if it's true, it helps put things in perspective.

That forgiveness quote is bang on. I'm seeing now as I don't play into stbxh games and anger I feel more at peace with myself. My therapist said that I need to look at stbxh as completely helpless. A prisoner of his own anxiety. And that has helped me tremendously

Originally Posted By: Jim1234

What you said about H becoming an atheist struck a chord. My W also lost her faith, and things really changed around that time. Granted, she was going through a lot physically, but it makes me wonder. I went to a wedding last summer, and the priest mentioned that in couples that worship together, divorce is very, very rare. I can't confirm the accuracy of that statement, but if it's true, it helps put things in perspective.

There's a statistic that is pretty established that suggests couples who worship together are more likely to see the marriage in a similar light, and that increases the odds of staying married. So yes, going to church and worshipping together is a good thing.

Obviously that became undoable in my m, about 5-6 years ago. I really did not know what to do about it either.

I saw a priest who told me to do my best to model Christian beliefs and not argue about it, so I didn't. I went to mass alone but I went a lot less often. Hard to explain that, other than feeling unsupported and really then, I got lazy I think.

I used to like going together. Anyway, I see a correlation between his anger, his loss of faith, his decisions to turn his back on us, and the lying & deceit that somehow, incredibly, he justified.

But again, I have to remind myself not to apply my values to him. Every time I put myself in his shoes, I am flummoxed by his choices. So it's one of those things wherein I have to remind myself that he does NOT have my values

so there is no "putting myself in his shoes" b/c I don't relate to his values. I don't get it.

I don't get his choices, and I never will.

But we are divorced now, so it's pretty much a done deal. And I'm okay with that b/c in the final analysis, xh did things that were cruel, dishonest, and greedy.

Walking away from our d20 and lying about his "retirement/poverty" and I mean provably lying - stupidly brazen of xh, dang...that's just low. It'll be Hard to come back from that. Remorse and humility are required and it's just not in him.

Xh has always had a problem expressing true gratitude to people. He'd say "thank you" but only rarely, and only for a large favor. He always minimized the appreciation b/c it humbled him even slightly, and the same goes for his apologies. A small one MIGHT come but it never matched the gravity of the wrong. It was odd to me.

I'm not someone who has a problem apologizing, b/c frankly, I assume it's almost a daily requirement b/c I will screw something up. Same goes for "thank yous" because that's also needed. It lubricates life when you say "I'm sorry" and "thank you", life is rougher without those words.

Again, one cannot apply one's own values and standards to someone who does not share them.

Soooo

back to ME and MY plans...which are for now, focused on living abroad this fall.

That's my goal and my hope. It's been on my bucket list for a long time. Getting certified in teaching English overseas, soon. I can add income if desired, by having corporations hire me for business or contract classes, or law in general. I'm headed to a place that allows my dog, (seriously, I LOVE that dog) and that is one factor in choice.

PS

It sure would be nice to get the funding from xh that is supposed to be done within 30 days of the funds being available. Which should have happened by now or very close.

No doubt xh will wait till the 29th day at midnight.

Sheesh, that guy will shake his fist blaming me, and turn from the kids at every turn till he's on his death bed - and then he'll do it some more. He's really disordered. His narrative distorts our marriage beyond recognition and I'm not exaggerating. It's cray cray.

My kids are not waiting for the grand apology and neither am I. I spent too much time in the marriage, waiting for him to wake up and value our family. Not an enjoyable task.

A task that's not mine anymore.

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

There's a statistic that is pretty established that suggests couples who worship together are more likely to see the marriage in a similar light, and that increases the odds of staying married. So yes, going to church and worshipping together is a good thing.

Obviously that became undoable in my m, about 5-6 years ago. I really did not know what to do about it either.

I saw a priest who told me to do my best to model Christian beliefs and not argue about it, so I didn't. I went to mass alone but I went a lot less often. Hard to explain that, other than feeling unsupported and really then, I got lazy I think.

I used to like going together. Anyway, I see a correlation between his anger, his loss of faith, his decisions to turn his back on us, and the lying & deceit that somehow, incredibly, he justified.

I feel exactly the same way about everything you said.

Living abroad! How exciting! And congratulations on having the divorce finalized.

Like you, I had the decree kind of sprung on me. It arrived in the mail, unannounced. It was curious to me how little emotion I felt when I opened it. It was like the period at the end of the sentence. And the sentence had been so emotional that getting to the end of it was a relief. An odd feeling, to have so much invested in the process and then when the moment arrived when all that work was finalized, it was just flat. EXACTLY the opposite of how I felt about getting married, interestingly.

I read through your whole thread all at once here. I don�t come back very much any more, just to check in on friends like you. I can�t read through all the pages of grief and pain, and see all the stories of people who�ve been treated so badly and who work so hard to hang on to (frequently) abusive situations. So it�s nice to see that although you still have some struggles, you�re on an upswing.

I wish you all the best, lady, and if you run through this thread you�re very welcome over at Surviving. We�re a pretty happy crew.

Maybell

I so relate to your comment about finding out after the fact, that you're divorced. Anti climatic and though at the time, there was a dull pain, it was very dull, and a lot of me felt numb. Weirdly detached.

Like saying "oh, so I'm divorced... I don't think I had breakfast today..."

It's not consistently like that, sometimes the old anger rises up but it's pretty momentary.

My feeling of life being turned upside down has faded a lot, and evolved into a "past change"...because I'm IN my new life now.

No more transition.

I'm "here" now. And Figuring things out.

My plan about living abroad is two fold. I either get a job here, that involves a lot of travel, or I move overseas to work.

If I find no job from here, I go there in person and look. If I can't find work there, I still go & live more cheaply than here, for maybe a year.

Europe is a priority, but it's not the only one.
There is an expat community there and some military bases where I can avail myself of veteran's activities & other Americans, if need be.

*(Input welcome)*

IF I can get a job elsewhere, like teaching English in Africa or Dubai, I'd take it.

I have about 6 months to decide and implement "The Plan."

As I fill my mind/heart & my life with my Plan ^^^ - (my "GAL")

the divorce, my xh and deep sense of betrayal & injustice, all just lessen in importance.

So, yay!

sidenote

I was looking for a picture of d20 but came upon a short video of xh. In it, I was filming and egging him on in an act out, and he was pretty darn funny. In the video, I was laughing so hard I could not hold the camera still.

True, I missed THAT version of xh. Or that time we had. But it was more of a wistful feeling, and not such a gut punch grief.

No tears, no sick feeling. Not even wondering about him much, though the question of "does he ever miss the laughs, the way I do?" did arise.

I'm funnier than him (not bragging, just saying) and made him laugh a lot. And he did the same for me, and there's no way - really - that he is laughing as much now. Nor am I.

So yes, I still have those moments. But they don't wrack my brain, and I am shrugging it off more.

I have faith that I'll be with a man who laughs hard with me. For now, it's enough to have my friends and family laughing with me.

So I'm in "newcomers" forum? What???

That's really odd. Wow, that's a big oversight on my part. Makes me think I wasn't thinking straight when I returned. Yikes.

So I need to switch to the Surviving forum, but am not sure how to link my posts/threads there.

Cadet? Job? Anyone?

(Bueller?)

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

sidenote

I was looking for a picture of d20 but came upon a short video of xh. In it, I was filming and egging him on in an act out, and he was pretty darn funny. In the video, I was laughing so hard I could not hold the camera still.

True, I missed THAT version of xh. Or that time we had. But it was more of a wistful feeling, and not such a gut punch grief.

No tears, no sick feeling. Not even wondering about him much, though the question of "does he ever miss the laughs, the way I do?" did arise.

I'm funnier than him (not bragging, just saying) and made him laugh a lot. And he did the same for me, and there's no way - really - that he is laughing as much now. Nor am I.

So yes, I still have those moments. But they don't wrack my brain, and I am shrugging it off more.

I have faith that I'll be with a man who laughs hard with me. For now, it's enough to have my friends and family laughing with me.

Thanks 25! Such a great post. One of the thing that gives me the most hope is that my wife and I still laugh together! The other night after a long bout of sex, I started using euphemisms for female masturbation. I had her laughing so hard she had tears in her eyes.

I love laughing with her. And the fact that we still laugh together makes me think we have a good chance to make it to R.

laughing hard together is a huge bonus & bonding factor. I think truly that laughing will only grow in importance to me as I age.

So yes, see comedians and don't repress laughter. It's such a gift

25, your XH is a dick. And I mean that in the worst possible way

Glad you're finally rid of him and moving on with your life now.

Quote:

I so relate to your comment about finding out after the fact, that you're divorced. Anti climatic and though at the time, there was a dull pain, it was very dull, and a lot of me felt numb. Weirdly detached.

Yeah I can relate to that. I was concerned that D would utterly break me down and I was kind of steeling myself for a bad crash. But when I walked out of the courtroom I just felt more of a sense of relief, it was no longer hanging over my head like a dark cloud. A heavy weight had been lifted.

Quote:

True, I missed THAT version of xh. Or that time we had. But it was more of a wistful feeling, and not such a gut punch grief.

I can relate to this sentiment as well. I miss my old life- my happy marriage, being a parent to my kids, etc. But THAT wife no longer exists, the woman she is now for better or worse is not the person I married. And those little kids that needed so much from me are adults now and two of them don't even live in the same city anymore. So I miss that life, but I know there's no going back to it. I have another life now- totally different, totally unexpected, but nice, pleasant and fulfilling in completely different ways.

I rarely say it here but congrats on your D

Hi AS,

Thanks for the visit.

This is NOT a linear process.

I have seen or written that^^^^^ hundreds of times around here, but today I FEEL it again.

Had a rough night with bad dreams that woke me up, hurt & angry. And then I heard rumors of a pending marriage with xh and OW (OW#2 or 3 or #50??).

And dang it, it still hurts. It still wounds.

So I'm taking 2 steps forward, one back. I felt detached from the divorce when I learned of it, felt pretty solidly that x h's behavior reflected on HIM, not me. His fooling me did not make me the fool, but made him a really lousy jerk.

Yes, I do have my moments of doubt there^^. And they stink. But usually I'm pretty certain it's true. Meaning, I mostly think and feel that this is on him. My failings as a wife are simply not the kind you leave someone for. I loved him, I was loyal to him, I made him laugh a lot and I did not reject him or nag or criticize him. (In fact, I'm still a bit stunned that he'd choose a place or OW over me. I think the inexplicability may have made this harder.)

Pardon the immodesty, but I'm objectively more attractive than OW, I'm definitely smarter and funnier than OW, I'm far more educated, and we have so much shared history.

But I did not want to live in Alaska again, full time. That was my "flaw."

If I had gone with him, a part of me would have died and that's not me being melodramatic; it would mean that my position on x h's priority list was so low that it would be staring me in the face every day. I would not have been happy anywhere, knowing he did not place value on MY wants and needs if they did not align with his.

Even after 35 years of putting him first, all the moves, all the long hours he worked away from our family, all the promises of TIME to enjoy life "later"

after the next shiny object was attained...and yet he did not want to repay that. He felt no obligation to reciprocate...

So again, I remind myself that this grieving process is not linear. I'm feeling hurt at the moment, but I'll feel better again.

AS, wow, I so understand the feelings of relief about it being done. (Though of course, it's not quite "done" b/c he STILL has not sent the money for the settlement.) So he holds me up, again. Delays MY new life beginning, again.

And For the life of me, I don't understand why there is not a certain date. As opposed to "within 30 days of when the funds are available." WHAT?? When is THAT???)

SO not delighted with my L's...

ANYHOW

this (below) is what I try to remember at moments like these:

1) that x h - whatever he "really feels/wants/needs" is a man capable of cruelty to me and to our children.

2) no indication of change, as he is incapable of giving what we deserve & need, and that I mistakenly stayed with him based on his potential as a spouse, not his actuality.

3) best course of action for me is to get out of his target range for protection; AND

4) to turn this pain and feeling of rejection, over to God.

Schmoopie (OW) gets to have the source of so much pain in my life, from x h. That's the karma I know about.

I am Reminding myself of my worth. Our children & I deserve better than x h can give.

I tell myself these^^ things b/c I believe that "where the head goes, the heart will follow."

It helps.

Thanks for listening.

Just got this text message from "Shine" which is a group that texts you M-F with little motivational quotes.

Today's message definitely resonated.

"Good Luck, today 25. No really. Luck, like gratitude, isn't about what happens today. It's about how you *see* it."

It's what you do with the "bad" events and the perspective you take that matters.

What looks like terrible luck today could turn out to be Great Luck, tomorrow.

There are elements of this^^ we do control. We have to exercise choice. We can avoid feeling as if we are victims on a sinking boat.

We can swim to shore.

Quote:

My failings as a wife are simply not the kind you leave someone for. I loved him, I was loyal to him, I made him laugh a lot and I did not reject him or nag or criticize him.

I'd say the same about my marriage, 25. Now, from a distance, I have peace in my heart that I did everything possible to save my marriage. And most likely it was only because I WAS a good spouse that we last for 26 years. He probably could not have lasted as long with someone else.

(Odd story - recently I was messaging a friend I haven't seen in a long time. I told her we needed to get together for a drink, that I had a lot to tell her. (All the crazy stuff that's gone on in the last year is what I was thinking about. ) Her husband is very good friends with my ex and the first words that popped out of her mouth were "Oh, is your ex getting divorced?"

Now I have no idea why she jumped to that conclusion. As far as I know there's no trouble in paradise ; I don't speak with him but the kids haven't mentioned anything off. And remember, his wife was not an OW so I bear her no ill will. Still makes me wonder - if friends of theirs think that's a possibility now, doesn't seem like the odds of them lasting 26 years together are very good, )

You did your very best, 25. This isn't about you but about him and his weakness. We got the best years out of our men and anyone coming after gets our leftovers and has to compete with our shadow,

25�

Thank you for posting that waw letter to Steve. Wow.

Geordie

Originally Posted By: kml

Quote:

My failings as a wife are simply not the kind you leave someone for. I loved him, I was loyal to him, I made him laugh a lot and I did not reject him or nag or criticize him.

I'd say the same about my marriage, 25. Now, from a distance, I have peace in my heart that I did everything possible to save my marriage. And most likely it was only because I WAS a good spouse that we last for 26 years. He probably could not have lasted as long with someone else.

You know, now that you word it this^^ way, I see that it is absolutely true.

First off, the OW he's with now would NOT marry a poor veterinary student, but I did.

She would not marry a struggling medical student, but I had our first child 8 weeks before he began medical school.

No, a lesser woman would not have accomplished or endured or loved nearly as much as I did. I find myself wondering if x h ever lets himself question down deep that OW marrying a double board certified physician is a helluva lot easier than what I did...which was to get him there.

IF he can even look inward, and Im not sure he can, he must know she's proving nothing good by marrying him at this stage of life.

I get mad that she will reap the benefits of my work and my sacrifices and those of our children.

But see? That^^ is the sunk cost theory and the belief that he'd "get back to normal", and then SHE will benefit from his character transplant, that kept me in the marriage too long.

Thanks for helping me remember.

(Odd story - recently I was messaging a friend I haven't seen in a long time. I told her we needed to get together for a drink, that I had a lot to tell her. (All the crazy stuff that's gone on in the last year is what I was thinking about. ) Her husband is very good friends with my ex and the first words that popped out of her mouth were "Oh, is your ex getting divorced?"
Still makes me wonder - if friends of theirs think that's a possibility now, doesn't seem like the odds of them lasting 26 years together are very good, )

You did your very best, 25. This isn't about you but about him and his weakness. We got the best years out of our men and anyone coming after gets our leftovers and has to compete with our shadow,

First off, the anecdote is interestingly telling and sad.

We all want karma. We all want to know when it's going to be fair. I try to remind myself that the "fairness equation" is NOT about what he is doing or getting, but about what I'm getting for myself and what I'm discovering for myself.

On my "off" days, (which are fewer, thank God) I will try to remember the goodness within^^^ about myself.

Thank you.

I guess hearing that there are wedding plans being made, did hurt. Even though I ASSUMED it, hearing it said out loud is different.

Ironically, I find that now that I am divorced, I am less interested in committing to a relationship with anyone. In other words, now that I'm free and out of the crapstorm, I'm not feeling the need, which makes me wonder a lot of things.

I know that making me the enemy and cause of all x h's ills, unites him and OW. (Because it partly united me and M). Now that it's over, I feel like i can take a breath & look around.

Oh so the guy I am dating, M,
told me he inadvertently stumbled upon this site and read some of my posts.

(The explanation he had, made sense, to an extent. It involved a testimonial I gave about the workshop I've mentioned attending, which I've posted here. Some DBers have attended. So there was a cross reference, and he read it and realized it was me. He confessed that he then read on...)

I told M that it freaked me out that he read my posts, once he knew it was me.

He claims that he was so surprised at what I'm willing to disclose "in public" that he actually brought it up to his T. His T suggested he just ask me, (though I'm not sure what there is to ask. )

Seriously, is it Why do I disclose so much? Um, b/c it's anonymous, that's why! And b/c I am an open person and want input from others who are like me, or are going thru something like I am.

This may be a "public forum" but I don't share my name here. For ME, this is like a diary in which I involve other anonymous people who also share and disclose things we would likely NOT share or disclose with our names attached.

I felt violated and I told him so. (It really turned me off and I'm still processing it.)

He promises not to read this anymore, and I mostly believe him.

Is it weird to think reading these violates boundaries? Yeah the boundaries are unspoken b/c I did not know anyone would figure out who I am AND THEN read more. It's not something I had ever thought of, other than worrying on occasion about xh.

M read some of what I wrote about him, which felt very weird. I mean, not just a violation but almost creepy.

I disclose a lot and I'm very open IRL anyhow. X H was less open (oh, and also a liar) and M is an introvert.

I am not all that crazy about introverts lately. Seems to me that disclosure is what builds intimacy. (That's why telling co-workers or others, private things about your spouse is so Uncool to me.)

X H sort of had a double life, I think. Man, he must have really put things in compartments and over time, that just does something to you, doesn't it?

I am so open and assumed that if you said nothing to me about a problem, you did not have a problem. To hear what x says now, (the little I hear) is as if he was miserable for years and he told my BIL, "this was coming for a long time."

Oh, really?? Gosh, I SURE WISH I HAD KNOWN that, you a$$*(&%. Did not get that memo. And I'd have cut him loose a long time ago if that were the case.

okay okay...no point in revisiting that...EXCEPT to say that I'm not that comfortable with introverts and discovering that M read my posts even knowing they were private. He commented on how much I disclose -- so why keep reading the posts if you think I'm so open that I'm revealing myself too much?

Does that make sense?

Anyhow, thanks for the feedback KML.

Not sure why x's likely remarriage hit me hard today (when I heard it) but I had awakened to a nightmare about him in front of me, with some OW. In it, he seemed to think I had really let myself go.

BTW, I have lost the FEW lbs I had struggled with while with xh.

it's ironic b/c when married to x, and being gluten free and all the rest of that rigid PALEO PALEO PALEO stuff he so imposed on all of us, and the Bataan death marches he called walks...

it was a lot harder to lose.

So I am actually looking better than I have in years. Oh, the irony.

Elle, again, thank you. I needed to remind myself of these crazy mean things xh did to remind myself that "losing him" to Alaska or OW, is not an actual loss to me.

Thanks for reading this tome of mine.

Originally Posted By: Gordie

25�

Thank you for posting that waw letter to Steve. Wow.

Geordie

you're welcome, it's a powerful one. That's why I copied it all those years ago. I think the poster was (Denver something.)

This is what I want to say

25 this is an open forum and also intimate too, I expect it to be read by those who know me. The G has read my posts. I had to stop for a while in case it damaged my D fin hearing.

I think that's good, one day like V you might want to write your story in ordinary form, "going Alaskan", mine is "storm in DD cup"..........

I decided I would be open, and authentic (BTW this isn't the same as being an introvert, it is a different personality factor).

I present myself with my warts. I am unafraid. This is who I am at this time.

So my view to anyone reading is "get over it already", unless they agreed like Mr Bluwave not to read, then know you have a very valuable open lady in your life, who has had an extraordinary journey. Incidentally EE is an extraordinary course, I graduated too.

Now let's look at marrying OW. There is a certain sort of man who needs a new target to be permanent. They fear being alone or abandoned. An OW is a soft place to land. The G finds OW with tangible resources, your ex finds OW who revere him which makes him psychologically weak.

They need someone to rely on and to treat quite badly, to ignore but who is a housekeeper and caretaker in old age.

Have they actually truly worked on themselves?

In the time you S have they really changed? Did they do EE OR similar and truly absorb?

Did they learn to be a better partner, to learn to grow?

Are they on a path to meet their selfish end?

You and I both know the truth.

As far as your investment and that of your children, investment goes up and down in value. This has headed downwards, in D you get your share of the M spoils if you can identify it from a liar. But investment is more than money, it is functional and assist in life. Truly you can do without that investment, cash it in, cut your losses. Get invested in yourself.

Thank your lucky stars that ex deserves Alaska, that this OW is marriage material for him, that will not have to wipe his entitled arse in old age when he dribbles snot his chin.

You are FREE, taste it, enjoy it and celebrate exH OW and Alaska. This keeps him away from YOU and from taking more from your children.

Let him go.

Write him a letter and burn it. Cleanse your soul, do an exorcism. Release this ghost, you don't need it, it's chains rattle in your mind.

By marrying OW the ex releases you even more. Be sad for her, she doesn't understand that at some stage she will be in your shoes, not you in hers. She better love Alaska because she will die there. In this I do not refer to the beautiful extraordinary region but the snow like wastes of the ex heart with the icicles in his ventricles.

You know this too.

V

V,

I'm heading out the door with friends but wanted to say

1) no, I did NOT expect this to be read by people who know me in real life. Right or wrong, I just didn't. And for M to read my entries about M, or my marriage and all the personal things, still feels wrong.

To be clear, I'm not furious. I am Just weirded out. I see M differently but I'll give that more time, obviously.

AND

2) I'm so glad you went to EE! OMG we talk the same language.

The facilitator told me that a lot of DBers had gone, and I was pretty grateful for that. Everyone who goes, leaves feeling more clarity and that is why I went 2 weeks ago. Thank God.
I purged a lot of grief, and not just about x h. My mom had died the previous summer and that was another piece of my life that was changed. (Her death was "the first sorrow wept in life, without her.")

Once upon a time many years ago, I did EE the first time and h went later, and we bonded the most we ever did.

I'm quite certain that without it, we could not have endured medical school and the unrelenting training and the 2nd child, and my working full time as an Army lawyer, AND hurt my back, and stayed married. Yet we were in love. (Well, I was. And I choose to believe, for now, that we were a happy couple for a long time).

My T says that "of course" there are degrees of narcissism and that in Freudian terms, I was the ego versus his Id. That what appeared to be us happily married, probably was.

Over time he treated me less than well, and in hindsight I now see that he was a real jerk, off and on, since living in Alaska (a very stupid tactic of his, to be honest. Maybe he could not help himself but last year before the crapstorm, he visited the job up there and sent me a photo of a hot tub. Mind you, only a photo and no words. I ASSUME this was b/c I had wanted a hot tub when we lived there, as my back pained me and it would have allowed us to be outside for longer times and see the northern lights and it would have been a quality of life thing for me.

But when h asked me (this is when we first lived there) if I wanted an ATV for an anniversary gift (and he said this with a straight face- I said I'd much rather have a hot tub both for my back and the whole family.

He brought home the ATV anyhow and weirdly, he actually said "happy anniversary" and gave me the keys. He was nervous and that's how he behaved.

Again, it's telling that I recall that moment with such clarity. Maybe if he'd send the photo of the hot tub and SAID something like "I should have gotten this for you long ago. But they do work here!"

But nope, just a photo. I could not tell if he was flaunting something like "NOW I will have what YOU wanted up here and you will be punished for not following me here, again..."

Ambiguous.

At times I am mad at this place. I put up with far too much.

When h went back to Alaska in 2006 alone, I told my then 16D told me, that her dad was "confusing his priorities" as an explanation for the first time him going "to check out a job" (to see if HE liked it there) ---

She replied, that she did not "think Dad's confused. think he's just really selfish."

And I disagreed with her! (It's telling that I recall that moment so clearly, isn't it?)

To answer your question, as far as I know he has not sought Therapy or if he has, it's been a twisted distorted narrative. It would have to be. He certainly has NOT changed for the better and I know this based on a mutual friend who is closer to me than him. And I know this based on what he told our d20.

When confronted about the MANY years of her (D20) life that he spent commuting to work despite being able to work near home, years away from her 5/7 of the time

he told her that the home life had become "toxic" for HIM

and that is why he spent years commuting away from family. (Not sure if Schmoopie OW told him those words or a T tried to justify with him...)

But He never told me he was unhappy, not once. Never even hinted at it. Told ME that he would try to get work that provides a pension near home because "someone has to think of our financial future", which was a shaming technique he used to shut me up. Never mind our d20 then was in intensive therapy and had to withdraw from high school so that yours truly (that would be ME) could care for her and watch her and help her finish high school in some form.

Not sure what was toxic at home, that he had alienated his children and then resented it?
But when he'd come home he'd upset the routine we were forced to establish without him and he was very disruptive as he tried to regain or assert control over what we ate, when we ate, what we Did after dinner, activities were basically dictated by him.

D20 still resents how I allowed that and she struggles with our relationship b/c of that. I struggle with regrets as a mother. I do recall the tension rising when he'd be on his way home.

or maybe the word "Toxic" came up with was an after the fact rationalization to justify very neglectful and often atrocious behavior.
[i]
(And if it was so toxic, why'd he leave the kids with me? OR were THEY the toxins? Oh, how Nice to say to our d20...)

AND I'm sure it had nothing to do with prior OWs...regardless it's clear x h did not want to be a full time dad or husband for a long time but lacked the ba11's to just leave and file.

In fact when I filed, he texted me a "Wtf?" message. Like he was actually surprised that cutting off the joint accounts - while I was impaired - was not a lousy thing to do. Sheesh, this hurts to write but it's also a relief b/c you are so right about my need to RUN.

Really he did lead a double life. Surely that takes a toll on them, doesn't it?

Of course I "should" not care. I'm getting there!

Many days I feel I wasted a lot of time on him. Years of my life I cannot get back.

Waiting for the "great guy" he once was, (I think), to return. To feel that I wasted years of my life WAITING for the good guy to return, can be unbearably depressing and frustrating.

So I remind myself to not regret the time I had with my children, (= married to their dad)

and to embrace the life I now have in front of me. To live as I wish.

I will read your posts again, V. Thank you.

(((( V ))))

PS

I'm going to the graduate workshop in June. Cape May.

Any interest?

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

PS

I'm going to the graduate workshop in June. Cape May.

Any interest?

I am waiting for my exam schedule to see if it's possible.

V

Just returned from a family wedding in Puerto Rico.

It was planned long ago and the bride & groom (she's my niece, and yes, I have a LOT of nieces getting married) --- stuck it out for their destination wedding in PR, despite the hurricane last fall.

And it was beautiful. She's a stunner, the groom is handsome and YET they're both very kind, funny and smart. (See how I noted my stereotypes?)

So, how was it for me, going to a wedding, as a recently divorced woman?

Well, at this wedding, it was fine. I mean, so far so good.

A brief minute during the ceremony with the marriage music, hit me. I thought about how x was missing another landmark event and that we would no longer be holding hands at these.

We have so much shared history - seems down the tubes --is it?

Then at the reception, the dancing made me miss x for a bit. (X is a gifted dancer, maybe the best I've known). When you dance together for decades, you know how the other moves and you know how to respond to their moves.

THEN I thought, "look what x is missing!" He's losing out!

The reception was really fun, really happy, very very warm and I danced my rear end off. I had a ball there, and I went exploring in PR by myself AND with siblings and nieces. Went on tours, and every local was friendly and over the top hospitable. Truly. They made up for the remnants of the hurricane damage.

The more I found myself in a stimulating new environment, the fewer reminders of x, AND the happier I became.

Hence the whole GAL thing. IT WORKS.

GAL - New people, new places, new activities

= LESS RUMINATIONS & LESS REGRET.

Next

My older kids drove 4 hours north to where x left tons of stuff in our storage unit (I had taken 1/3 of our things b/c I naively thought x would be grateful I was so above reproach).

They did not "clear it out" so much as they took what was important to THEM (& had asked me what my priorities were and I only had 3)

and we chose to leave the rest. X stopped paying for it a year ago, and my s31 has been covering that this whole time. Thankfully it's in X's name.

Yes, there were things we lost, things I miss and feel sad about. It's a loss.

But my own kids said they needed to "let go" and "get some closure" of their own.

I marvel at their honesty and thoughtful behaviors. I was surprised by their sensitivity. And frankness.

I'm sad about some of what they left behind but for me to go see it, ship it and find a place for it here, makes no sense now.

Hopefully, others will enjoy it now...

if my kids can let go of some childhood and or meaningful things that really matter to them, so can I.

I'm so lucky to have them in my life. Feeling grateful

(((( ))))

Got the MONEY (the lump sum part, anyhow) from xh. Finally.

On Easter he texted out of the blue, without any intro. And nothing about Easter of course, not even my name or his.

He Asked for my account info, then a minute later he texted to ask whether I lived in X town or Y town (which would take him 5 seconds to remember) and then, incredibly, he texted that he was "on the phone with the bank now", meaning that I better hurry??? Because HE was in a hurry and although I had no warning and it was a holiday, so what?

HE wanted HIS task done then and there...so what if he's over 6 weeks LATE?? Um, don't confuse yourself asking if he apologized. That would be a big NO.

So on one hand it's a small but really clear, great example of his impatient entitlement, but OTOH, I am just glad that instead of waiting for other shoe to drop, I got the lump sum (partial payout in lieu of spousal support) We have other issues that could be messed up but SEEM on track and frankly, the most pressing matter was the lump sum for me.

OKAY I DID THINK ABOUT TEXTING HIM THE FOLLOWING:

XH, I MISS YOU AND WANT YOU BACK...

PS, APRIL FOOLS.

Come guys, that would have been hilarious. But I wanted the money even more than the laugh.

ANYHOW< I feel more relaxed and at ease. Also sort of bittersweet. But that's to be expected.

He doesn't own me anymore, if you know what I mean.

Will he soon marry OW? Probably.

Will he be happy THEN? Maybe but it's Not my concern. I don't buy the spin that this was about me.

I did not break him and I can't fix him. Maybe OW can...maybe he will have a character transplant. Maybe he'll become a unicorn.

Since the split I've worked VERY hard on me, very painfully, and now, regarding xh, I'm working on meh.

And I am zooming forward. Already out of debt, which is a good feeling I have not had since this divorce began.

I'm doing stand up comedy this month!! Yes I will dedicate it to him, but only give 30 seconds of my set his way. Nothing bitter.

That's all I have for now!

That's great news. I'm really happy for you.

It's wonderful you are doing stand up. Have fun, and break a leg!

Quote:

Since the split I've worked VERY hard on me, very painfully, and now, regarding xh, I'm working on meh

Haha love it!

Glad to hear you're doing stand up too! ( Did you see The Amazing Mrs Maisel btw?)

That's good to hear you received the money!!! I thought most men don't marry their affair partners. If yours does then I'm curious to know how long it'll last. Good luck with your comedy endeavor!

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

Maybe he'll become a unicorn.

ha!

The stats show 4% of men marry their A partner and that M lasts on average 4 years.

Only 8% of those M make it to 15 years.

That's 8% of 4% successful?

Great odds......

V

... and currently 67% of second marriages end in D... and 74% of all third marriages end in D

Overall the odds of staying M to an A partner or otherwise aren't overally all that good.

I would think once I got to the point of letting a S go because of D I would try to think less about the S and how they carry on and really more about myself.

I could care less about my Ex and his W or their kids unless its something that directly relates specifically to our shared child. I've got better things to do and more important things to take care of!!!!!

Essentially if I lose this marriage I am never getting married again. Not worth the heartache and problems.

My exH married his A partner. They just celebrated their 7th wedding anniversary on April Fool's, haha.

S*cks to be OWW, though. I would have left him if we stayed together.

Originally Posted By: Steve85

Essentially if I lose this marriage I am never getting married again. Not worth the heartache and problems.

i felt the same way... and i was the cause of the heartache and problems... honestly, i would not marry again...

Ahhhhhhhh

Only time will tell and you got plenty of it.

I would M again with a pre nup though.

V

I think I could remarry, but not at all soon.

Maybe never and for sure not without a prenup.

Still planning to move abroad this fall. Enrolling in certification course to teach this June, as I don't think I can start sooner.

Looks as if eastern Europe or South America are most likely, but we'll see. (Much of Europe makes it harder for Americans to get work visas over EU member nations).

Different topic - Some car thefts and smash ins crimes happened the past 3 months in my upscale area. IN the parking garage where I take my dog to go outside after midnight if need be. So M put a deadbolt lock in my door.

I really like that he did that. Made me feel protected.

OTOH I had a dream of x h last night. Woke up missing him. UGH.

Had to remind myself of how lousy he was to me, just to shake the idea of him or a recon out of my head.

How long does this^^^ last? Plus, the whole "oh wait, Remember the crap he did" exercise yanks me backwards...but if I don't do that, then I feel a heartbreak feeling of loss. And when I do it, (ie remember the bad so I don't miss him) it still hurts and feels like a setback.

I mean, I woke up with a heart ache, and kept yanking myself back to reality, and then steering forward into MY future. Just to get out of bed. IT's been a long time since I woke feeling that way. Okay so then I bought new sheets (seriously good ones, btw) and really bright throw pillows and began looking online for places to live overseas.

New places, new work, new people, new activities...

I guess this is how we do it, right?

It lasts until the dreams become nightmares.

Then the Scooby stuff gets way too weird. You might want to look at Fogg post in Surviving.

I get daymares too.

4 years in and still having scarey thoughts.

Uggggggggg

V

Costa Rica? Chile? Ecuador?
I love the idea of living abroad. I'd like to do it when I retire, but I'm not sure I'll be free of caretaking responsibilities by that time (mom and kids) so I might have to settle for just vacations.

I have no desire to marry again, although I'd be happy to have a good long term partner. I'd certainly never marry without an ironclad prenup. Right now, I'm happy just to have a sexy friend I see once a month or so. (Not nearly enough sex but on the other hand I have enough energy for all the other people in my life who need me.)

Don't worry, the dreams/nightmares go away.

25, I have half as much time invested with Mr. Fantastic as you had with your ex, and weird things catch me from time to time. Like, a picture of one of my kids as a baby, with his left hand (wearing wedding band) in the picture, balancing the baby. That sight was SO familiar to me and it woke up a sadness that I thought had gone away. Because, what a stupid ending, you know? Here we had this enormous familiarity together, experiences together that neither of us will ever have with anyone else (like the births of our children) and he had to poison them with this clumsy, selfish, abusive stupid ending.

So, four years after he moved out, I don�t wake up crying anymore, he rarely moves me to tears (and only because we still share young children), but yeah, there�s a well of sadness with his name on it and I don�t expect that to go away ever.

On the other hand, because of his choices, I get to make some big decisions of my own, and have the freedom to reinvent my life in a way that makes me happy. Just like you�re doing with the plans to move abroad! So when you wake up from a nightmare or are troubled by all this, remember to thank him for liberating you to this great adventure.

So excited to hear you�re doing stand up again!!!

(((25)))

incredibly helpful Maybell

Such a stupid - expensive - PAINFUL - (to me AND to our children & even to HIM, unless he's completely insane/moronic - Ending...

and yet, every time I hear that there is trouble in paradise with him or OW, or I find a funny memory of us, or I find myself with loving emotions and then LOSS of course, (was he THE love of my life? Like, the ONLY one?) it's like a scab gets torn off.

AND on occasion I even find myself wondering about a recon..."what would it take??"

and I really have to slap myself hard to remember, "Oh yeah...he sure was great, we were so well suited and and and ---- AND HE WAS ALSO really terrible and so oblivious..."

Lacking empathy is the hallmark of a narcissist. Even if he faced his losses and the pain HE inflicted and tried to make amends,

the lack of empathy would mean I'm always at risk for deep heartache. I don't think you can fix a lack of empathy. ??

IF he does not lack empathy but hides from the pain he actually feels for causing so much...

then the amount of compartmentalizing he must do to suppress the guilt and remorse I WOULD HAVE in his shoes...

Ah but this is circular. He is not who I thought he was and he does not share my values

so that, is that. Ugh.

It's as if settling and getting the money makes me face the END of the end...if that makes sense.

How can I really let another man into my heart? I'm not very afraid of being hurt b/c I know I'll never be hurt like this again.

It's more like, how can I give my heart to another man, fully? I don't think I have it in me.

Originally Posted By: kml

Costa Rica? Chile? Ecuador?

Chile yes, Argentina and Brazil. I'm not at all fond of jungles and humidity so if it were the west coast of Costa Rica, maybe.

Also, I must confess I'd like an area where I'm more attracted to the men in there, so that means the countries above that I named, Europe, and some other parts of the world.

My brother lived in Costa Rica for 4 years, but on the eastern part. It rained a lot for me.

Maybe the western coasts of those countries could work. I also speak some French so, you know, not so helpful in Central America.

I cannot explain this - but Argentina, Chile and Brazil are more exotic to ME than Central America.

Europe, eastern and whatever I can get in 90 day chunks in Italy/France/Spain are other ideas.

Once there, I'm told (indirectly) I can look for work at companies that need contract law, and business terms explained and translated. That pays decently compared to teaching civilians. Thing is, I don't need a LOT of income, and maybe don't need any if I simply spend less on rent there than I do here.

And that is an easy thing to do b/c I live in a pricey area and had to get NEXT to the subway b/c I could not drive yet at the time. So just lowering my rent will allow me to have some disposable income there.

If you guys can get over there, you have a place to stay. I just don't know where that will be.

Sort of getting afraid of this. "move to a foreign country where you know only your dog. Sure!"

But I'm pretty committed and can't really back out now.

That's probably a good thing. OH and the thing about the job is, I want and need one for SOCIAL reasons. Not so much financial.

Otherwise I'm wandering around with my dog and NOT able to speak the language - a bit too wacky even for me.

Okay now's the time to tell me that if I don't do this now, I never will.

Oh, I just told myself that.

I love the idea of living abroad. I'd like to do it when I retire, but I'm not sure I'll be free of caretaking responsibilities by that time (mom and kids) so I might have to settle for just vacations.

well you have a place to stay!! And Elle, you're an MD. What about a 90 day deal? Or Doctors without Borders?

I'd LOVE to work with them - but they seem not to hire a lot of lawyers. I think they tend to focus on...yikes, what is it? Can't remember...Hmmm, oh wait, I KNOW - it's patient care.)

I think I could fake being a doctor (God knows, I sure did for JURIES!!!

) for a few weeks if, well, if no one expected anything of me

but sage comforting advice, or birthing babies (cue "Gone with the Wind" now).

Of course, Doctors Without Borders folks probably do more than that....AND that is where YOU come in. Just Skype me thru some neuro or heart surgeries (hey, I'm good with my hands) and live vicariously through me.

A few months before my mom died, I told my sisters that xh and I were going to live abroad b/c it was OUR dream. I didn't get the "only Alaska and only full time" memo.

My sister said she'd kill me if I did that since mom's light was just beginning to dim a bit.

She knew she'd need help, but mom checked out before that day happened. Until you just wrote that, I guess I never saw an "upside" to mom being gone. I miss her madly and she left a gaping hole in my life.

But I am freer, aren't I? Same goes for X being an ex.

Well aren't I the "glass is half full" woman tonight??

I have no desire to marry again, although I'd be happy to have a good long term partner.

Wow yes, I hear you. The upside to marriage in my eyes, NOW, is that you can feel a sense of "we belong together" that I do miss. (And yes I know I was, evidently quite wrong in thinking I was "safe" with x. Dang, that still causes me pain and grief. I'm a month post divorce. Could be a TAD soon to expect closure)

As I date M and meet other men on occasion (for lunch or random introductions, not actually "seeing OM's" at this time although M and I have no exclusivity arrangement yet and I really do want to date others and have M date others too).

I find I'm constantly reminding myself that "Hey we are not married, it's okay to just hang out and enjoy" but then thinking "could I spend my LIFE with this guy?"

And if not, am I wasting his time or mine? M is far ahead of me b/c he's been separated 4+ years.

Sheesh, I'm over thinking.

I'd certainly never marry without an ironclad prenup.

if I met a gazillionaire I would not need a prenup at all. Just a really nice engagement gift...of an annuity or such. Let's go where the rich nice guys are...first, find out where that is and THEN we need to go. Your mom will totally understand.

Otherwise, yes a prenup.

Right now, I'm happy just to have a sexy friend I see once a month or so. (Not nearly enough sex but on the other hand I have enough energy for all the other people in my life who need me.)

Don't worry, the dreams/nightmares go away.

I need them to go away and focus on MY future and not freak out about it.

OMG

So xh just reached out to me by email for filing taxes jointly for 2017. Says we will split the refund.

It's darn tempting to agree to, and he was polite in the email. Yes he needs something.

I immediately wrote a polite & informed response, but then put it in my drafts. I don't need to rush an answer to him.

Christ, it's the 10th. Taxes are Due next week. I don't want x to know I took classes and earned virtually nothing. (Why do I give a damn?)

Guess I could say "I don't owe taxes due to my advanced studies"...

"OH and due to the fact I'm RECOVERING from the internal whacks to the head that got me in a neuro ICU for 6 days... Remember? Oh, wait. You were not there."

Today a dear friend who means well, told me that OW does not look happy with X and that OW gained weight and they have not married yet.

WHAT????????????????????? Hm, well I LOST WEIGHT and her IQ didn't go up. So, I win...

Wow, on that petulant note, I need to pull myself away and THINK and go for a walk, aka
a "fury march".

I appreciate you guys and you make me laugh. Trying to remember the things we spoke of months ago about the weirdest things we heard about our flaws.

Of course x never told me to my face, but he did once say he could not believe I wasn't in the senate by now. Yeah, the US Senate.

And at the time he was "just up the road" (300 miles) for his unnecessary fellowship. So I was a single mom, again, for 2 girls.

"Sure, let's go campaigning kids! It'll be FUN!"

So HIS expectations OF me were insanely high and really impossible to meet, and he managed my expectations of him to almost nothing.

"Hey, Don't shoot me" was an expectation he met, I guess...
.

Quote:

Let's go where the rich nice guys are...first, find out where that is and THEN we need to go.

Haha - I like the way you think! I guess I used to think of it the other way around - that I might be especially attractive to some sexy Spaniard looking for a green card and escape from the economic doldrums in Spain. But I like your idea of a rich guy better!

As for the taxes - your ex probably just realized how much more he's going to have to pay in taxes. You could always ask him to send you his information so you can run the numbers ( it'll give you a chance to see just how much he's been lying about his income!) then tell him you've decided not to file together. Or if there actually WILL be a good refund it might be worth doing (although it's equally possible that he didn't pay all the estimated taxes he should have and you filing with him would just allow him to break even rather than owe money).

Originally Posted By: kml

[quote]Let's go where the rich nice guys are...first, find out where that is and THEN we need to go.

I need the website!! (I'll pass it on to you asap).

RE ONLINE DATING

So a 29 y/o posted to me even though I posted "no one closer in age to my 30 y/o son, than to me." He either didn't read it or, didn't understand it OR only focussed on my other comment

I had written in my profile that "I like a man who can open a pickle jar."

So this 29 y/o guy flexes his muscles for the photo!

OMG I thought it was so funny and a tiny bit endearing, and maybe witty???

But here's the kicker.

BEHIND HIM in the photo, is a pile of DIRTY laundry, strewn about in a poorly lit room with an overhead "interrogation room" light, and an open can of something other than cat food, and a CAT near that can...!

"Hey 29y/o, thanks for sending me the whole picture and oh, I'm not sure we are well suited and... buh bye."

I may put this^^ in my set Monday night. As part of what I've learned with OLD and what I may suggest.
Such as "no 'nose up" photos. NO ONE is flattered by those." Also photos of places that lack YOU in them.

Paris? That's nice. Were you there? Living there now? Going there? (Taking me?) Why are you posting a photo of Paris.

Same for photos of wild animals that cannot be pets of yours (or I hope not)/ like elephants and lions. WHAT DO THOSE PICS MEAN? Pictures that resembler mug shots are also a turn off for me. But then, maybe I'm being picky.

Also what is with the photos of the TOP of your head? Even those with hair, why only show me that? Why the mystery?

Are you a celebrity, a spy or a wanted man? Shouldn't I know what you look like before we meet b/c - you know, I won't meet you otherwise...

unless you're in my "rich guy" set that KML and I are in. But you'd have to reveal that somehow, so, you know, I doubt it's helping their response rate.

Haha - I like the way you think! I guess I used to think of it the other way around - that I might be especially attractive to some sexy Spaniard looking for a green card and escape from the economic doldrums in Spain. But I like your idea of a rich guy better!

As you can tell, I've given this the attention it so richly deserves.

And notice I'm NOT saying "I want to find a rich doctor" b/c I know there's a 1st wife out there who will justifiably hate me.

As for the taxes - your ex probably just realized how much more he's going to have to pay in taxes. You could always ask him to send you his information so you can run the numbers ( it'll give you a chance to see just how much he's been lying about his income!) then tell him you've decided not to file together.

FYI in case I didn't say this before, I won't get any refund by filing separately. So I'm not losing money by "helping" him,

but I'm risking --

1) getting nothing b/c he might not do as he promises b/c you know, it's him. He can "Forget/change his mind/blame me for 30576 things that he now remembers, and thus, recalls that I don't deserve for him to keep his word..."

or 2) he can screw up the taxes, again, and maybe get me snagged in for liability.

But I feel like the innocent spouse rule would help me b/c of the release AND b/c I have literally not seen or heard from him in the year 2017

AND I have his pleadings in which he claims to have "retired". So it's not as if I KNOW he earned more.

3) he could show me huge high numbers and rub my face in it, ("after all the years of slogging thru poverty - look at ME now!! And you, 25, get none of it! Neither do our kids. [censored] sandwiches for everyone!")

in which case that just [censored], again, but there are easier ways to flaunt his wealth.

But at least I'm not spinning anymore at the big "outreach" from him. I snapped back to the "oh yeah, that is how he was but NOW he's this other dude" rather than

me sliding down into the "I'm missing the man he was --(see recent dreams)--- and maybe this is an inroad...and maybe he has realized what he's done and is sorry and maybe he IS a unicorn"

which I actually think at some level, I hoped/believed, much to my chagrin.

I think I would love to sit through your set. Break a leg!

Thanks Jim!

I did it.

I did stand up comedy based on

1) the end of my 35 year marriage;

2) seizures that scared the crap out of me and have altered the past 18 months of my life, and

3) online dating.

All 3 are scary but the first 2 are among the most painful things I have ever experienced.

Humor does NOT work for everyone, but it sure helps me know I'm "past" a certain point in my life that these things are simply not killing me anymore. That I've mastered them SOME. If they were not painful at all, they'd probably be a lot less funny and I can tell that the crowd was with me, if you know what I mean.

Oh, and yeah, it was maybe the tightest set I've ever had. Nothing fell flat and that was new for me. I mean, ALL new stuff and not one joke didn't land. Geez, what a high.

Dang, if I were more computer literate I'd post the video around here.

Then again, if i were more computer literate, the picture that young guy from Colorado sent me

(which I SWEAR I thought was a picture of Colorado!!!)

wouldn't now be my screen saver...

Hahahahaha!!!!

So glad your set went well! Congrats!
What joke got the biggest laugh?

The online dating joke did,

and as for x and me, the "reframing" (ie denial I was in) best laugh was either

"couples have differences, yin and yang, that counter balance each other...

Like I have a really bad sense of direction....(pause) whereas HE is a pathological liar, so...

there's that."

And jokes about how I "reframed"

---
"when he would hide rice and pasta and gluten products on the top shelf where I couldn't see or get them -

I'd REFRAME it so that he was just protecting me from the celiac disease ...which, guess what,

I NEVER HAD! So, there...

AND ...he taught me to jump!...

you wouldn't know it to look at me, but after 30 plus years, I can jump really high, for gluten. Turns out, I like spaghetti."

Also learned that he IS remarrying. And Soon...turns out HER daughter needs braces and she likes his money and blah blah blah.

The same OW he was with when he announced her as the "love of his life" - weeks after we separated.

In my HEAD I know he's her problem now. In my HEAD I know he's no loss to me.

and yet, Ouch. Heart still not all caught up

Ahhhh yes

There is that pasta thingie again.

I thought I would share my post with Focus and yours above with her. It's almost definitely rigeur for there to be a pasta issue of one kind or another. Absolutely mandatory, in fact I always ask why not a problem with pasta? What is wrong with my WH if there is no pasta issue? But hiding pasta, secretive pasta? That's brand spanking new so I have added it to the Pasta collection.

Originally Posted By: Vanilla

Frankly my dear.....

I think just a big dollop of humour might do you good, so sit next to Lady V and let me tell you a few home truths.

Your A hole cheating on you says nothing, nothing about you. It's his A hole that is talking.

Let's just look at failings shall We?

I will give you a few choice ones from my own history and those on the board

1. I failed to make the evening meal at 6:30 every evening

He dipped his wick many times, it's my fault because I didn't give him cake by 6:30, so he had to get his cake in slices elsewhere.

2. I served the wrong shaped pasta. (This is a very common complaint and so heinous that it merits divorce)

That is completely my fault and it caused him to cheat, if only I had served penne not spirals. It's my fault I own up, truly I do. He had to go to Italy to get the proper pasta from an ex stripper, clearly that was necessary.

3. I am too short (Rosalinda)

As a result WH went and chose an OW that was even shorter, but she wears heels and serves fermented oatmeal. So that was OK despite catching a nasty disease, after all it could be cured with fermented oatmeal. And besides OW got it from a toilet seat which obviously wasn't wiped clean.

4. I wasn't well I got pneumonia and Swiss cheese jaw.

As a result he went and cheated which put my sexual health at risk, but as I was unwell that didn't matter at all. My health is already damaged more won't hurt.

5. I have a messy closet (Sunny)

That is a crime against humanity, it's disgusting and justifies WH cheating with a co worker. She has a tidy closet and that makes all the difference, so Sunny deserved it. It was a crime along with the wrong shaped pasta.

Let's face it these are shameful crimes, we are to blame for these jerks straying putting our health at risk and for how we treated them. Noooooooooo

This was a decision by [censored] face to dip his wick not yours. You were faithful and loving, made a home and all the things a loving wife does. He cheated not once but twice. Twice and that's square fault on disease crud face.

Yes I can keep those crude potty mouth sayings coming.

If you look at pus loins and his open crotch huskies in a disgusted light then I really think this shame will go away.

Go shout on the roof tops 'I am ashamed my [censored] faced turd cheated on me twice as it's my fault he did because I am unworthy to lick his entitled shoes. He did so because I didn't serve the right pasta, have a tidy closet and wasn't tall or young enough. I might even have a muffin top and cellulite.'.

Now shove that back to dirt bag where it belongs. Him and his schmoopie. Have you watched TrueTori with Tori Spelling no knickers and Dean Mcgroin crud bottom? Suggest you Google them on YouTube especially when Tori met Dean's ex wife. Then tell me who is the lady? Try Christie Brinkley and her ex Peter Cook. I think the tide is turning on turds in that industry.

Try watching youtube and seek out my wife has whisker burn. Watch the whole series of cartoons and roar with laughter.

It's no more your fault than an earthquake, ash cloud, the invasion of Iraq, banking crisis or sub prime lending issue. If you decide not to own it and pass it back to dumb pus loins and his Schmoopie then that is where it belongs. I give you permission to roar with laughter.

And next time serve the pasta you want to serve.

See it has a mandatory connotation!

I once asked the G why he lied about his As. He said he didn't lie I merely hadn't asked him.

Wassock.

V

Good job 25! You seem to be handling things very well, and continuing to GAL. You are an inspiration for all of us!!

well thanks all,

X told d20 after she asked him outright, if he was 1) getting married, 2) having a baby or 3) dying.

He said "getting married really soon, in May..."

and asked her, separately, if she'd come visit him in Alaska. She said "no thanks, YOU come see ME in college..."

no plans for that to my knowledge.

d28 began to cry when she heard it and said "even though [she] knew it was likely, it feels sad to her. Like 'wow, there was no grand lesson for him after all."

I think she meant that she hoped she'd feel like a higher priority to him, or a priority at all.

But maybe this is the only way to get some form of closure on x, other than him dying.

If he screws me again on the taxes (and does not give me the money he promised me in writing, I will

consider

telling everyone....or something. I'm too disgusted with him putting the wedding announcement on OUR youngest child to, you know, 'pass on...'

what a pwssy he is and always has been a coward.

If given a choice between an easy lie and a hard truth, the lie wins every time

V

of course the problem with pasta IS - THAT IT IS PASTA...

YOU know, the whole gluten thing. But I'm delighted to say I've lost weight AND still eaten gluten,

and I'm feeling a tad petty and not too proud to say Schmoopie has gained 15 lbs. This also delights me as I do not believe her IQ went up accordingly.

I assume she's PALEO but in any event, soon he will let her know her body fat% b/c HE CARES...

after all, HE'S A DOCTOR!!!

Schmoopie has gained 200lbs. (Plus the 15lbs). Obviously loves pasta with cheeeeeeese.

A great big wart on her personality.

And you lost 200lbs of dead weight.

Honey, you go sing to the world about dirt scotum master jerk wad.

V

25, I'm really happy your set went well. That's awesome! And I loved your jokes. When you get famous, and are hosting an HBO special at DAR Constitution Hall, I'll be able to say "I knew you when...." You should invite X an let the crowd know this part of the set is thanks to him.

Interesting that he asked D20 to visit him. I'm guessing 1) he didn't offer to pick up the airfare, and 2) he deflected her suggestion to come visit her. What a douche.

I want to see 25's stand up!!!

Awesome job 25... that's great!

Thank you, thank you very much...

You know, I'm guessing (b/c it's always a guessing game with x) that he will ANNOUNCE on FB his romantic over the top gesture about his new love and blah blah blah MARRIAGE...why not just elope or have a quiet discreet ceremony? Most 2nd marriages outside of Hollywood, do that. Especially when there are hurt feelings.

x's fan base up there, must either not know he has kids (not mentioned in his professional profile) or they ALL believe that I, evil 25, have managed to brain wash our grown children into believing he's - who he is.

Good thing there are 7 billion people in the world and he can only lie about me to so many of them...

but here's the 2 downers.

1) YES I am human and it hurts to feel discarded fully, by someone you really did love deeply. To believe that I was either never loved as I believed or simply am not now.

To believe he actually thinks I am to blame for any of HIS choices, still gets under my skin.

AND this^^^^ bothers me b/c it bothers me. You know?

I want to be indifferent but yet, I am not. Not yet.

I know in my head, "okay, now he's HER problem and she is HIS."

I get this^^^ but man, I have to do a ton of cognitive work to remember it. Maybe once the big happy day is over, I will feel the way I did about the divorce.

(as in "oh, that happened. And I'm still alive...hmm...")

2) he does not appear to think the kids are affected by this OR they should be happy for him.

He had spoken to d28 an hour earlier and said nothing, and only when brave BLUNT little d20 blurted out her questions - revealing how out of the loop they are from each other's lives

"are you dying/marrying/having a baby?" -- did x tell d20 that he IS marrying...and then he got vague on the date.

"Soon...in May..."

WTF?

But then, let's RE FRAME this. Grateful that A) Thank GOD the wedding is far away

(or so I assume. Watch him take Schmoopie to Paris for their honeymoon, like he promised ME he'd do. But he's cheap, so I'm not sure about that).

B) Thank GOD he has not asked our kids to be IN the wedding, which, I kid you not, a friend of mine's kids were asked to do and they did...

how she handled that, I'll never know.

C) Thank God that the last shoe to drop - as far as I know - will have dropped.

Closure will be as permanent as death would be b/c it is only then that we all will or can feel free to live our lives as if they are not in our audience - which is how we are supposed to be living now anyway.

I look back on that remark my x said over a year ago, before I knew of OW

when he said he hoped I had "moved on in my life". 4 months after separating from a 35 year marriage.

OMG what a flippant minimizing comment to make to allow him to blame ME for possibly being hurt by....something...

zero accountability. He deeply wounded and left the 4 people who loved him the most and he will NEVER even believe that b/c you know what?

He's shallow. And if there is shame without action, then it's worthless and the more I entertain the idea that he will regret this someday

the more I give him centrality in my life.

I miss what we once had and I sure miss the lifestyle of wealth, and the future I THOUGHT we would have.

Yes, I miss that and the shared history of so many events, and funny moments which he is apparently capable of erasing.

Me, trying to understand HIM - it's just not possible.

In the years I have posted here all, really, in an effort to understand and believe that my x was NOT a selfish narcissist, capable of long term deceit and major league cognitive dissonance -

I could have gone to medical school myself, AND written a novel.

In fact I HAVE written a novel of sorts, considering the THOUSANDS of posts I wrote here.

Somedays I SMH thinking of the denial I was in.

I do not regret the years I had with my children - I CHOSE THEM over earning money for "the family" b/c it was the right thing to do. Period.

I (usually) do not regret the things it's useless to regret now.

I also don't want to blame Schmoopie too much. I mean, I'm no fan, believe me. But I have no idea what x told her and he had some fairly smart people fooled.

But would you marry someone before meeting their kids?

Would you marry someone who has SUCH a bad relationship with his ex that he can only blame her for ALL problems and will not speak to her, and only emails or texts when HE needs something?

Would you marry someone who -- and maybe she doesn't know - lied on taxes and under oath, about income?

maybe you would, if you were marrying someone of equal calibre.

Or you don't want to look at those things (I DIDN'T!!)

or you want the money you believe will be coming soon...

and the idiot x will probably marry her without a pre nuptial and then gain a % of the ;partnership and then if they divorce,

schmoopie new wife gets half (or all of it if he dies) and our kids get nothing.

These folks really do not think things out, b/c they do not care enough to do so.

And that can feel devastating to spouses and children.

My kids are feeling it more now, whereas I have been working on the process of letting go of someone who let go of me awhile back.

And I am again trying to soothe pain HE inflicted on our children and he is utterly clueless about this.

Which might be worse than being cruel. Because cruelty requires intent, which MAYBE can change.

But cluelessness and the inability to feel empathy or imagine how someone ELSE would feel by YOUR action or words, is like a genetic flaw that is untreatable.

X does not seem to know he's different. Isn't that weird, but likely true? Like the only way he can take in the reality of his new GREAT life (without our children in it and without me seeing him as a friend), is b/c of some flaw in others.

Not his behaviors or choices. it's as if he perceives the world in a way that WE normals do not relate to at all.

Hmmm, food for thought.

Just one example

when x first went nuts (= "massive entitlement exposed", part 1) in 2006/07 he said that I "would do the same thing if I had the same opportunity."

I was flummoxed. WHAT?? No I would not.

He said "25, you LOVE acting (um, okay that's true...)

"and if you had the chance to be in a film with Meryl Streep - you would take it in a heartbeat!"

ME: you mean a film that took me away from our kids for 2 years?

X: well, yes...it'd be your dream

ME: No, I would not do that.

X: yes you would. Be HONEST...( I should have said "'honest'what's that?")

ME: NO x, I am 100% positive I would NEVER leave our kids for 2 years.

In fact, if the Pope himself told me to go to Africa and that I'd then be able to cure cancer and save millions BUT miss the kids lives for 2 years,

I'd have to talk a whole lot to the kids and pray hard AND if the kids did not consent, I would not go."

AND I meant every word of this^^^ and still do.

But my point is, x did not believe me. X thinks "everyone" would do what he did.

He thought that leaving your 2 d's at home with your w, after 25 years of m then, so you can do a fellowship 300 miles away (and not, btw, the closer fellowship)

and then leave again, for a JOB in a PLACE YOU love...Alaska and which no one else loves but in which we all had lived, FOR HIM...

sure, everyone does that all the time...

Only they don't. Good people don't leave their kids, or the mothers of their children. Good people don't lie. Good people don't steal or cheat or abandon and they are not cruel. Love is generous and honest.

H does not see this. H thinks - I believe - that ALL of his choices were due to others or to his natural entitled and well deserved "rewards."

So I leave to you fine folks to tell me, what would it take for you to leave your kids for 2 years, one of whom was entering her junior year of high school and the other was 8.

THINK HARD now...would it be "a lot of beer", "Free NFL tickets"?

a Billion$$ AND only after long talks with them to get consent?

My bff said she "might do that -for a BILLION$ "if I knew that the rest of my life would be spent making it up to them."

How about if I KNEW I could end war and for all time??? Okay, I confess, then I might do it...

OMG I AM JUST LIKE MY X.... proof^^^^^

25, he may be able to convince people that you've brainwashed your GROWN children into thinking he's a bad guy, but anyone with two brain cells will be able to figure out that something doesn't quite add up.

thanks Jim.

I have 2 very conflicting thoughts.

1) It infuriates me that he has trash talked me behind my back AND lied about me AND LIED TO ME, massively for so long my head still wonders about the stranger I loved since I was 19 y/o

AND

2) it infuriates me that I care about this^^^^ at all!

I have no control over it. His "data" is not real.

His "reasons" or his disorders or his FOO damage/MLC or his confusion/affair fog and blah blah blah whatever is in HIS head...however he justifies hideous behaviors

do not matter.

What matters is that he really was cruel to ME and to our children - and for quite some time.

And even more miserable during our divorce process. Lied under oath, a lot. Lied to our d20 about finances and cut off her tuition WHILE paying for OW's daughter to go on their trips...

He Appears utterly remorseless and possibly angrier at ME, than before...(SO WEIRD).

And now he is remarrying the AP...and told d20 "making an announcement soon" which I assume will be on Facebook ???

(wow, so classy AND brave)

But since what really matters is that I deserve way better than he gave - then my task is to let go of this crap and his centrality in my life, which I have done A LOT of, but then get sucked back a few steps with new "poop",

Again setting it down and turning my head forward and toward my children - to love them as I have for years --- "extra"

to compensate for their dad being "so busy"...so important, so entitled, SO GONE.

PLAN

By inserting my GAL and new life and focussing on the things I am creating, x's presence will get smaller and smaller, I hope and believe, and pray.

I mean, it has to. Will I ever really know why this happened? NO I WILL NOT.

So my mantras must be repeated - and if they help someone here, great.

1) Help me let go of the need to know why. I will never know why. And endless questioning is endless suffering. - Caroline Myss.

And

2) good riddance to lunacy/monstrosity & welcome new life.

Because truly, Only a lunatic or monster could do what x has done. I mean that.

So, removing lunacy/monstrosity from MY LIFE as I have done, really is a good thing.

And it's all I can control anyway.

I completely understand how you feel. Her behavior bothers me a little, but what really bothers me is that her behavior bothers me a little.

Like you, I have to keep reminding myself "I deserve way better than x gave." And I find I am enjoying the independance, the GAL, the stability of life now.

My kids are undergoing a lot of turmoil right now. I'm doing everything I can to help them through it, but part of my journey is to get over my W blowing up our family, and dumping this burden on my kids.

Anyway, I just wanted to remind you know you're not alone. You'll get through this. How are things with that guy you were dating?

Maybell

I know you're trying to tell me something, but I'm just not clear on it...

Jim -

M and I are still seeing each other. I think we have enriched each other's lives and been of great comfort to each other in a dark ordeal.

And we now know that there are people in our age range who are attracted and attractive to us, which is frankly a relief.

I don't know what will happen with us, but I DO know that I cannot make a commitment to him. I know I need to date other men AND to be on my own a lot longer. The temptation to marry sooner, b/c x h is marrying so soon, did happen but was only brief...and all about my ego.

As objectively as I can say, x is a fool for remarrying OW and to marry so fast. Just crazy. And oblivious to the appearance to ALL who knew US as a family --

that he's doing it to validate his choice to blow up a family and 35 year marriage and God only knows how he justifies the time/situation he left me in.

(I assume he hides that all) .

So, with M, I have mentioned many times that I need to be on my own and that I plan on going abroad soon. (I told him that on our first date).

When he asked what he's going to do without me (in a nice way), I reminded him that he "will date other women", b/c he's coming out of a long m too.

Note - M has been separated for 4+years- wanting out of his m, and that's a lot longer than me.

I've been very honest with him and I don't want to be hurt or to hurt him. But we all face those risks every time we date.

Like I said, he's been a great comfort in a hard time.

A few months ago there was a break in of cars in my condo's garage. Then another one and it was caught on film and really creepy to see. That happened 2 weeks ago, and M and I went to Home Depot and he installed a new deadbolt lock in my condo.

Things like that^^ mean he cares, and that means a lot to me. But I have a lot more healing and exploring to do before anything gets decided.

And he's NOT asking me to decide anything, which is also helpful.

Any news on your front?

25,

You sound (read) so solid and strong! Excellent point about taking the time you need and not settling in too soon. This guy may try and date, but he will surly be thinking of you :-)

I would love to see your stand up too! If you end up in the SF Bay Area, give me a shout :-) We could also meet & chat it up for hours I am sure. Unless of course by then you are famous and don't have time for me. lol.

Keep on keepin on, sister!

-- for all the posters looking for DB success stories, start right here. 25. SUCCESS! --

Blu

Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc

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Jim -

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Any news on your front?

I don't want to hijack your thread, but I'm about to post an update on mine.....

Hello all

So I'm officially enrolled in the certification course to go overseas in the fall and teach. It is very intense and a part of me worries that I'm not the same, cognitively, as I was when I had the seizures and the medication I take does seem to distract me. But I'm a good reader so if I must, I'll read things 2-3 times to remember what I need to remember.

After I finish late this summer, I'll head overseas.
I do not know where I'm headed yet, but (for the moment) I'm okay not having all the answers.

I only know that there's the biggest global refugee crisis since WWII, and now is the only time in my life I can maybe DO something to help, other than shaking my head and sending $50.

Teaching English is a start. And I get to have my grand adventure. Maybe I'll be able to use my legal training too.

This ^^^^ move would not be the possible if I were still married to X.

X will marry very soon, (maybe tomorrow? Our anniversary was 8/8/81 and if his new one can be 5/5/2018, it'll be easier for him to remember, what with the old double digit thing).

I awoke around 4 am this morning angry, again! Thinking of how he blames me for HIS life issues. What I'd say to him...how I'd correct his memory...

Our whole marital history is crap now, and only HE worked hard while I ---

see, I don't even know what his narrative is, anymore. His email to me about taxes turned snotty so fast, I literally laughed.

And I know that d20 told him that unless he admitted to being abusive to me, she could not have a relationship with him.

(I must admit I almost laughed at that one. Can you imagine x slapping his forehead and saying "You're RIGHT! I was a really nasty jerk! I was abusive! Thanks for enlightening me! NOW we can be close, right??")

But d20 tried to stop his blame shifting and for that, I'll always be grateful. Reminds me of myself at that age. And his blame shifting is really kind of insane.

So I snapped out of this fruitless waste of time, with me thinking I can fix his memory.

The truth conflicts with his narrative so why on earth would HE hear it now, from ME?? He can't even invite our kids to his new "love of his life" wedding. God forbid they say something...and seeing myself or our marriage thru HIS eyes is looking with crazy eyes.

Anyhow, I'm going to visit my older kids for Mothers Day in CA, and then will see d20 later this month.

...hmm...I'm sure it must be b/c of x getting married this month, that it triggers in me the desire to remarry or commit.

Like I don't want to look as if I'm the "loser in the contest." After all, if 25 isn't in a committed r, it must mean she's not desirable and THIS proves it!

(I'm still seeing M, FTR).

I've learned some hard hard lessons this past 18 months and one of those lessons is,

don't react to your pain so fast.

It'll pass, or you'll change something to process it, and it'll be alright. X could never be alone. Ever.

Besides, I very much want to take the next steps in my life on my own. I don't want another person to be the reason I live OR do not live, in a given place...at least not for a long time.

If that means I'm missing some great love opportunity, then so be it.

I know I deeply loved x from the age of 19 - all my adult life.

You know, a healthy way to view that is that It's pretty cool to know I could sustain that type of love through thick and thin, for decades and always see x in the best light.

I really can love well. I just have to balance that against being blind to sh1tty treatment.

There are still moments when I see something on TV and want to turn and ask x what he thinks of that. (I wonder when that ends. The feeling that we "belong" to each other or with each other. It was SO LONG A MARRIAGE...)

I can see replacing the spouse with a new one (No - not defending it, just that I can understand it.) Definitely distracts you from any loss - b/c you plugged the hole with a plug...now there's no hole.

What hole? What loss?

But I cannot see how x replaces our kids, though. OW has a d17, is that enough?

Maybe in his head - he feels that 1) our kids were never grateful enough for HIS hard work

or 2) he will rebuild and reconnect LATER...

always with the LATER...our m was mostly about x working towards something around the corner and THEN we'd have family time,

THEN we'd have enough money (b/c h never ever thought we did).

he was always striving, never arriving. Of course, maybe x is so very different from me that losing our kids wasn't that painful for him. I believe he loved them, but he loved himself so much more, and never, EVER handled conflict well.

His seething, lingering resentment was nurtured with his selfishness and his utter inability to simply work thru something hindered healthy problem solving.

X could not give in if something was important to HIM. I can't think of a single time x gave up something he really wanted, for very long. And when he did postpone it, he resented it without admitting it. He once said "Alaska is off the table. It was a mistake."

But I guess he missed it and then coveted it and hated ME for not guessing and then giving it to him.

Well, soon enough I'll be very busy with my new life and hopefully will crowd out these thoughts, questions and my own anger, and feeling of loss.

Just fyi, I DO realize the "loss" of him is also a positive, b/c I have "lost" the negative undermining and belittling that I did not really see at the time, but I do now.

Removing THAT negativity is a positive and my self doubts are decreasing.

My life has more peace in it now. He broke my heart, and did it at the time I was most vulnerable. But I am healing. And I AM moving forward and I can honestly say that if I had gone to Alaska with him,

OMG even assuming he were not with an OW, (which is a big assumption) he was not treating ME WELL.

That's what I have to remind myself of.

Whether he's had a character transplant for OW and all the stuff he posts on Instagram and FB with HER IN THE PHOTO WITH HIM (a thing x never did with us, or our kids)

is true, even if his life is FANTASTIC now, it wasn't for me. And it would not have magically become that.

And the other thing is, I don't know truly "healthy/happy" people my age who post like that.

So over the top. So in my face and in our kids' faces. I'm waiting to see OW's daughter in the photos so he can pretend he has a family...

b/c he makes no mention of OUR family in his professional profile. UGH, he is a monster.

For the record, I hear of his social media posts. I do not stalk him or look at all. Or OW.

That's my update for now.

Quote:

he posts on Instagram and FB with HER IN THE PHOTO WITH HIM (a thing x never did with us, or our kids)

If he never did that it was because he had other women that he didn't want to see his family. However far that goes back, that's probably how far back he was cheating.

I was getting my hair done today and one of the other patrons is living in a village in France teaching English. It sounded idyllic!

GRRR

Sigh.

Never mind.

But I cannot see how x replaces our kids, though. OW has a d17, is that enough

I m sorry to say it, but no. He doesn t value your children the way you do. How many of the things he did could he have done if he loved them the way you do Could he have avoided your hospital room if he cared about his children No, because he knows they love you. Could he have left for Alaska if he cared about them No, because keeping them stable in their schools and friendships would have been important to him. Could he have had affairs No, because part of how a father takes care of his children (especially his daughters) is by showing them how a woman (their mother) should be treated.

The OW s d17 is an accessory just as your kids are. If she starts showing up in the pics it will be to show the world that OTHER people appreciate him, but that you re a bitter bunny who poisoned his kids against him but he can t be that bad if the OW s D is smiling in pictures with him. Impression management.

I m sorry to be blunt but what the OW is doing to her daughter is just as bad as what your ex has done (is doing) to your kids. I m so proud of your D20, on your behalf.

Super excited for you to be moving forward on the teaching abroad gig I envy you having new learning to take on.

I would not have agreed to the tax thing. Just my two cents. But I hope it resolves successfully.

It makes sense that you would want to be married or committed again. It makes sense married is your default state at this point. I m reading a book about romantic attachment styles and the first point it makes is that ALL HUMANS need a partnership. It s in our genes. But some of us have dysfunctional attachment styles that cause our relationships to short circuit, even when we sincerely love someone. I believe your ex loved you as best as his dysfunctional attachment style would permit, and that my ex did too. I actually think they still do and that s the reason for the crazy behavior. But that doesnt mean it s healthy for us to be attached to people who can t function in a relationship.

I think I m mostly at peace with my divorce (but not 100 percent). I still get mad at Mr. Fantastic for making such destructive choices. I m disgusted with his lazy parenting (if you can even really call it that). He has gone so far downhill since our divorce, in so many stupid ways, that I m kind of grateful to be away from his crazy. But I also feel really sad for the waste of it all, including the waste of so many of his good qualities. The best I can hope is to kind of make up for it with how I manage my life.

I m proud of you for trying to reframe your opportunity to have your grand adventure. I can t wait to hear more about it as you report from overseas (right )

HUGS, 25.

Maybell

I saw the Grrr! Use a new pc??

So X married OW as of the past 2 days. In Hawaii and with one of our former friends, there.

I had dinner last night with x's bff and his wife, and we shared a lot of laughs and good talks. Knew them our whole marriage and whole dating life. Both married the same year. Both had 3 kids, were in school and the military together...

I got the elephant in the room as I had learned of the marriage an hour before the dinner!
(Geez...)

So I told them "hey, I was wronged and betrayed. Our kids were treated terribly. That is just true.
But I'm not going to spend the rest of my life reviewing my list of grievances. I am to blame for the rest of my life."

Most of the time, I believe ^^^^this. But I have my moments of fury about finances and loss. So we talked about old times and my future plans as they have retired (like X and I COULD HAVE idiot...) and they want to visit me wherever I go. AND I believe them.

Yes it still hurts but not as much as I thought it would.

I suppose there will be times when it gut punches me?? Maybe I'm just numb.

But I actually think x is nutty.

Our kids were not invited and he posted his new profile on FB and THAT is how they learned...lovely. That's not normal, folks.

I mean it when I say, I think x has something wrong with him.

Like he has a real personality disorder. And I don't say this merely b/c he remarried - but because of the total discard of our family and marital history. The obnoxious behavior in the divorce - he STILL tells his bff that he was "volunteering"! His name was on the building!

I wish I had read about Personality Disorders a LONG time ago.

I would have cut him loose so much sooner.

Maybe his new wife can fix him. Maybe NOW he can finally be happy.

His dad is on his 4th marriage and considers himself a good father...and I imagine a good h. There are disturbing similarities and when x's bff pointed that out, x totally missed the reference.

But the way x's family - once MY family, have all treated our kids, the ONLY grandchildren, is abysmal. I cannot change that.

So, back to me.

It's over. It's done. And in a very real way, even though there is pain, I feel freer.

Like there is literally nothing attached to my marriage or x anymore, to confuse or hold me back. I have no choice but to make the best of the time I have left.

The m ended and it's not recoverable and there is no "grand lesson" on x's end, coming.

It is over.

Coincidentally and thankfully, I'm flying out to CA to see my older 2 kids for Mother's Day and am excited. Boy, what perfect timing.

They may be more upset than I am. Seriously, I think b/c I can replace a husband - NOT that I want to, but I can remarry.

They are stuck with this man as their only dad. How appallingly painful for them. And they ARE hurt, no matter what x tells himself or whom he blames (me, probably)

X has done a lot of destruction he will never, ever face. And that is how it is.

Can't let him have any more of our energy. It's cut losses time.

As my late French mother would say, sadly "C'est Fini".

(She'd also dramatically swat the air in reference to OW, and say "She can HAVE HIM!")

Working on channeling my mom more.

25

You have been on this journey so long

I am glad you feel some closure with his remarriage

Agree it stinks for your kids

But they have one sane parent

And that is enough

Normal rules of living don't apply in Alaskan

For sure it's special snowflake land

V

Well, that is something you won't have to deal with again. I imagine marriage 3, 4, 5 . . . won't hurt as much to hear about. I know it was hell, but I envy you for being done and for your tenacity in seeing it through to its logical end. I still believe they do us a favor when they are really awful people because it does aid in letting go. Yes, I think you are the ex-wife of a personality disordered husband, and as the current wife of a personality disordered (soon to be ex-) husband, I feel justified in saying that.

thanks (btw, I started another thread)

There is some value in x being such an a$$ through this, that it IS easier or at least

less confusing than it might have been otherwise.

See my next thread #10

and thank you all. Seriously

Originally Posted By: Maybell

But I cannot see how x replaces our kids, though. OW has a d17, is that enough

I m sorry to say it, but no. He doesn t value your children the way you do. How many of the things he did could he have done if he loved them the way you do Could he have avoided your hospital room if he cared about his children No, because he knows they love you. Could he have left for Alaska if he cared about them No, because keeping them stable in their schools and friendships would have been important to him. Could he have had affairs No, because part of how a father takes care of his children (especially his daughters) is by showing them how a woman (their mother) should be treated.

The OW s d17 is an accessory just as your kids are. If she starts showing up in the pics it will be to show the world that OTHER people appreciate him, but that you re a bitter bunny who poisoned his kids against him but he can t be that bad if the OW s D is smiling in pictures with him. Impression management.

I m sorry to be blunt but what the OW is doing to her daughter is just as bad as what your ex has done (is doing) to your kids. I m so proud of your D20, on your behalf.

Super excited for you to be moving forward on the teaching abroad gig I envy you having new learning to take on.

I would not have agreed to the tax thing. Just my two cents. But I hope it resolves successfully.

It makes sense that you would want to be married or committed again. It makes sense married is your default state at this point. I m reading a book about romantic attachment styles and the first point it makes is that ALL HUMANS need a partnership. It s in our genes. But some of us have dysfunctional attachment styles that cause our relationships to short circuit, even when we sincerely love someone. I believe your ex loved you as best as his dysfunctional attachment style would permit, and that my ex did too. I actually think they still do and that s the reason for the crazy behavior. But that doesnt mean it s healthy for us to be attached to people who can t function in a relationship.

I think I m mostly at peace with my divorce (but not 100 percent). I still get mad at Mr. Fantastic for making such destructive choices. I m disgusted with his lazy parenting (if you can even really call it that). He has gone so far downhill since our divorce, in so many stupid ways, that I m kind of grateful to be away from his crazy. But I also feel really sad for the waste of it all, including the waste of so many of his good qualities. The best I can hope is to kind of make up for it with how I manage my life.

I m proud of you for trying to reframe your opportunity to have your grand adventure. I can t wait to hear more about it as you report from overseas (right )

HUGS, 25.

MAYBELL

If you happen to read here I have restored your post - PLEASE stop using contractions with the associated syymbol it is what is causing your posts to blank out - Thanks - CADET

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