Last thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2775339&page=1In the last thread, Surfer asked how I was doing over the weekend and several people showed support for my idea of moving out of the MH.
My weekend was rough. WW made the situation very awkward, while blaming me for making it that way. Yesterday I went out for the afternoon and made sure that I got chinese delivery to show up at home while I was out at dinner. I let WW know there was plenty for everyone
including S14. I ended up getting accosted by WW because she did not know where I was and S16 could not tell her.
She said I was not communicating with her regarding my schedule and location, blah blah blah, called me selfish, blah blah blah. S14 didn't want to eat the food and then WW blamed me for him not eating.
I simply responded that I will not argue and went about my afternoon.
But I tell you all what... Being alone is killing me. It's so devastating to me that I feel like I need to get back on the dating scene even though I know I shouldn't do the rebound relationship thing.
I have done a lot of introspection to try to determine if I'm codependent. I guess maybe there is a small amount? Maybe that's normal in any marriage to a degree. Yeah I know I'm not alone, but you all get what I mean. That missing piece of my heart that can't be filled by any other part of my life because those parts already have their own places in my heart.
Oh well. Thanks to everyone for checking on me. My life will get better, but I still have to take things one day at a time. I'm obviously GALing and my 180s have been consistent.
I think I need to walk away at this point. I think I need to, because I don't want to be married to her anymore. My marriage is already over. This is one of the last steps I have to being emotionally divorced. I think I have to move on physically for this to work.
I'm just done. I'm done with the lies. I'm done with the gaslighting. I'm done with the projected guilt. I'm done with being the whipping post. I'm done with watching my kids hurt. I'm done with the conflict. I'm done with the stress.
I can't control her but I can control what
I do going forward.
Being alone is killing me.
I have done a lot of introspection to try to determine if I'm codependent. I guess maybe there is a small amount?
What is your issue with being alone? What is it about that which is killing you? Why do you think that another woman is what is needed? My recommendation would be to fill this time by making new friends - I dont think you are in any place to have a healthy relationship with a woman at this point.
There is most certainly a level of codependency in a relationship. There is a healthy level, and an unhealthy level.
Why is being alone killing you? That's a bit of a problem. WHat does "being alone" mean?
I don't think you want to fall into the trap of another unhealthy relationship for the sake of not being "alone"
I know I'm not in a good place for a relationship. I know a rebound is a bad idea. I'm trying to make new friends and reconnect with old friends. It's not the same feeling, but I am doing those things.
I know I can't rush anything right now. It frustrates me because my feelings are one of the few things I have some control over, yet I cannot change the speed at which the emotional shifts happen.
I don't really want a rebound relationship. It will leave me feeling even worse in the long run. I just need a healthy way to fix this problem.
Headed to the gym now. Thanks everyone.
I just need a healthy way to fix this problem.
It's called time, distance and self-care.
It's called time, distance and self-care.
Yeah, that's the thing. The time. I can't rush but I want to. I am so desperate for my heart to heal. The wounds are still very fresh, and I want it to end. The pain won't go away with D. Or recon for that matter. Time is the only answer.
I simply responded that I will not argue and went about my afternoon.
Excellent!
Being alone is killing me.
Quoted for reference to the below:
I have done a lot of introspection to try to determine if I'm codependent. I guess maybe there is a small amount? Maybe that's normal in any marriage to a degree.
If being alone is killing you, then you are very codependent. And yes, it is quite normal in a marriage. The longer the M, the more codependent you become. I suspect if we knew BD was in our future we would all be a hell of a lot less codependent in M, which ironically might have saved many of our M's. Anyway a large part of DB'ing is breaking the bonds of codependence and finding out who Joe really is, what makes Joe tick, and how Joe can find happiness without depending on others to feed it to him. You'll get there, it just takes some (here comes that bad word) time.
Yeah I know I'm not alone, but you all get what I mean. That missing piece of my heart that can't be filled by any other part of my life because those parts already have their own places in my heart.
It hurts, no question about it. And there's more hurt where that came from. And then some more. But you'll toughen up, raise your walls, protect yourself and the hurt will hurt you a little less each time. Eventually you'll drop the rope, break the bonds and free yourself. You'll become Independent Joe. It's something to look forward to!
That's the worst part, without a doubt. The waiting.
I'm trying to find happiness. It's just not that easy at this stage in the game. Time is a commodity I don't feel I have enough of these days.
Joe,
I never wanted to leave MH and if so, only after the D was final. But I have gotten to a point where I can no longer cohabitate with my stbx and maintain my sanity. Only you know where you are but know that you have the power to make your own decision. I get feeling lonely but find ways to enjoy this time without a romantic partner. Are there things you’ve always wanted to do or try but your stbx just wasn’t interested? Write that list and start checking things off. She hates action movies and you love them? She hates golf and you never had the time?
Yeah. The other day she gaslighted me by manipulating S14. That was a real eye opener. The selfishness of the WW is ridiculously cruel.
Earlier she wanted to have an R talk. It went about as expected, yet I left the door open for her. I did NOT make any statements that would be considered pursuit. She changed subjects when the responsibility for the state of our MR was clearly on her. I shut down the conversation when she turned it argumentative.
I am still walking away from the MH. It's pretty freaking sad, but I feel that it is necessary.
Oh so here's a question for everyone: should I inform her that I am leaving, or just leave? I don't see any difference between the two, other than her trying to start a fight before rather than after the two of us are gone.
Joe, I'm not in my right mind right now but I'd inform her if I were you.
Joe, I'm not in my right mind right now but I'd inform her if I were you.
I agree with this.
What kind of schedule are you looking at? I think it's reasonable to give notice when you are moving out. Also, I think you will need to have a plan about how to divide the expenses related to the MH. Are you planning to just walk away and leave her all of the bills?
What is the plan for your son? What is the plan for maintaining a relationship with her son?
No, bills will still be divided per the divorce paperwork. I will let her contact S16, that is OK. She has not let me talk to S14 for over a week now, so I have no idea about that.
I will inform her of my intentions, then.
Early this morning WW approached me to stop the conflict in a calm way. I repeated several times that she has instigated all of it, which she acknowledged. I had the conversation with her and reiterated my stance regarding not standing in way of the D. I was cordial yet cautious. I left the lighthouse lit and the road clear, without indicating that I wanted her to take the road at all.
I have not told her that we are leaving. I'm wondering if telling her will enrage her or not. I guess either way, it doesn't matter. A WW does not need an excuse to rage.
A WW does not need an excuse to rage.
I think it's all in the presentation. If you callously say "You b%$#h, I'm leaving", you'll get one reaction, but "I can see this living arrangement is not healthy for any of us, and I feel we'd all be better off if I moved out" would elicit another.
Good luck
I have been doing my best not to approach her with anything but either kindness, care, or indifference when necessary. I will tell her it is for the best, etc.
I feel very defeated. I feel like I've lost at DBing. I have been good at executing my DBing. Consistent. I've upgraded myself quite a bit in only two months. But a MR requires two people. She's not on board in the least. And she is being a terror to our family.
It weighs heavily on my heart, but I've just got to walkaway now.
I just have to figure out what to say now.
2 months is a short time. I'm just past the 2 month mark myself. No progress on a Recon. But progress made on myself. Keep on working on you, doing you, and being the best you that you can. Every week you're a little bit better version of yourself. Trauma like this can often lead to startling growth. Lead the way. Maybe she'll follow, but that's not on you.
I'm about to start separation, too. Hopefully distance will bring about space enough for healing for all sides.
You haven't lost yet. She may never come around, but 2 months is not a very long time in which to see the results of your efforts.
Wow, I never thought I'd one day describe myself as "walkaway" LOL
I feel very defeated. I feel like I've lost at DBing. I have been good at executing my DBing. Consistent. I've upgraded myself quite a bit in only two months. But a MR requires two people. She's not on board in the least. And she is being a terror to our family.
Have you improved yourself? Have you learned to be a better partner and spouse? If you have started along the road of self-improvement, then I think you have not lost at DBing. It does take two people to make a MR work. The point of DBing is to create the space and atmosphere where the WAW wants to try. I agree with the others that two months is a short time. Don't get too down on yourself.
Yeah FC... You're absolutely right! I have done so well with DB that WW has even told me that now I'm what she wanted me to be before BD. LOL... Oh well.
I am about to voluntarily separate. It does feel like a defeat. However, I am choosing to put myself and S16 in a better environment. By doing that I'm actually succeeding. I will be free from the face to face gaslighting, projection, mind games, and physical danger.
I'm torn between feeling relief and great sadness. Either way, I'm moving forward with this for S16's sake, and S14 too.
Well. It's done. Incredibly tough to do. Had a talk with WW and left the road clear and paved. I feel I have established a bright light house for not only WW but even more importantly for S14.
I will continue GAL and maintain the 180s I've made.
I am having bouts of intense sadness because I miss W. Unfortunately WW has replaced her and the woman I love only lives on in my memories and my heart. There is no guarantee that she will ever return. This is the saddest I've ever felt in my life, but I am dealing with it very well.
I dropped the rope in the most unexpected way for me... The realization that what I'm leaving behind are memories of a W that has more or less "passed away" has really given me comfort and some closure. I can not bring back "the dead" any more than I can snap WW back into reality. I don't even know who WW is.
In the end, I had to make this decision in order to protect my kids. I am good with my decision. I am strong and I am capable of finding happiness. Life goes on, and it's the life that I've been making through GAL.
I won't ever let anyone do this to me again.
I'd like to say a sincere thank you to my DB family here. You have all made my life bearable, survivable, and inspired me to make my life even better. I am not leaving, but I will probably not be as active as I have been lately because I want to take some time to myself to heal as much as possible.
I'll post from time to time if any substantial changes in my sitch happen, and to check on some of you whom I've become fond of.
Thanks again. Keep fighting the good fight.
I am sorry that it had come to this Joe but hopefully now you can find some peace. Best of luck and keep those shoulders back with your head held high!
I think you've done a great job. I wish you the very best of luck and look forward to updates.
Joe,
Great job.
Onward and forward!!!!!
Quick update. I've been away from home for several days now. After a particularly rough weekend, I feel somewhat better today. I have some peace now. I'm still DBing and GALing my tail off. I have been consistent and enjoying it.
I've had to start enforcing my NC rules again. WW is picking up the temp checks in TM and phone calls. However, the emails I've been sending regarding business transactions have gone unanswered. It is frustrating. She is trying to hang onto the last threads of this rope, but I'm gone. It would take a monumental effort on her part to get me back now.
She's still not in her right mind. She is still spordically incoherent and has made mention of mental breakdowns she's been having at work. I can't understand how she hasn't crashed and burned yet. She has abandoned all her old friends, me, and S16. She is making this new life but she's miserable in it.
It's pathetic and sad. I feel so sorry for her, but I am no longer her friend or support system.
I can't have anything to do with her anymore. She's a completely different person now, and it's so sad. I feel awful for S14. I wish I could rescue him.
Quick update. I've been away from home for several days now. After a particularly rough weekend, I feel somewhat better today. I have some peace now. I'm still DBing and GALing my tail off. I have been consistent and enjoying it.
I've had to start enforcing my NC rules again. WW is picking up the temp checks in TM and phone calls. However, the emails I've been sending regarding business transactions have gone unanswered. It is frustrating. She is trying to hang onto the last threads of this rope, but I'm gone. It would take a monumental effort on her part to get me back now.
She's still not in her right mind. She is still spordically incoherent and has made mention of mental breakdowns she's been having at work. I can't understand how she hasn't crashed and burned yet. She has abandoned all her old friends, me, and S16. She is making this new life but she's miserable in it.
It's pathetic and sad. I feel so sorry for her, but I am no longer her friend or support system.
I can't have anything to do with her anymore. She's a completely different person now, and it's so sad. I feel awful for S14. I wish I could rescue him.
Joe, I have not followed your entire story, but I did go back and read your original posting. It looks like that was just 2 months ago, Dec 2017? With BD just a month prior? So you are basically ~3 months out from everything after being Married for 5 years and together for 6? That seems very quick to say it is over. From what I have read, many people need to work for at least 1 month per month of the relationship before they start to see changes. Again, every stitch is different, it just surprises me how quickly your story went. Either way, keep focusing on you as that is all you can control!
Well, several things you're missing. She actually filed 1 week after BD.
I tried to work on an in house S but that went horrible due to her constant gaslighting, abuse, triangulation, and putting our kids in the middle of it all. She would call OM and leave his gifts around the house for me and the kids to see and hear. No respect from her for anyone else, even her own son.
I did a bang up job of boundaries and general DB. GALed like crazy, kept my 180s. Set hard hard boundaries. Did everything I was supposed to do. But once she started to manipulate our kids to get under my skin and gaslight me, I had enough. She crossed the line there so I left.
Am I done? Yeah. There's nothing left for me in my MR. It's over, and my W is not who I married.
Am I over this? No. Would I recon at this point... Maybe if I felt that the WW fog had been lifted.
I had to step away from her. I did it with dignity, poise, honor, and class. I'm not ashamed of this any longer. I had to protect the kids from her abuse.
It was a calculated decision.
The one I am most concerned with is S14. Is there anything that can be done?
What does L say?
There was another Joe here who managed to save his SS and his SD, as well as his joint children with WW. That was because WW crossed state lines though and it was going to be very disruptive.
Would you have S14 live with you if you could?
V
Well, several things you're missing. She actually filed 1 week after BD.
I tried to work on an in house S but that went horrible due to her constant gaslighting, abuse, triangulation, and putting our kids in the middle of it all. She would call OM and leave his gifts around the house for me and the kids to see and hear. No respect from her for anyone else, even her own son.
I did a bang up job of boundaries and general DB. GALed like crazy, kept my 180s. Set hard hard boundaries. Did everything I was supposed to do. But once she started to manipulate our kids to get under my skin and gaslight me, I had enough. She crossed the line there so I left.
Am I done? Yeah. There's nothing left for me in my MR. It's over, and my W is not who I married.
Am I over this? No. Would I recon at this point... Maybe if I felt that the WW fog had been lifted.
I had to step away from her. I did it with dignity, poise, honor, and class. I'm not ashamed of this any longer. I had to protect the kids from her abuse.
It was a calculated decision.
Joe,
I think that is a very helpful clarification/distinction. You are done with the M as it currently stands. You have drawn a line in the sand and realized that you are not willing to live with your WW. From what I have read here, a WW will not change overnight or even over the course of a few months, even if you 180 and truly improve. The fact that you may be open to the R, if serious changes are made on her end, tells me that you are on the right track. In some of your early posts, you mention the possibility of a rebound, due to loneliness etc. By no means should you put your life on hold, but I would caution against adding in any new love interests at least for the time being. I know you already know that, but in the grand scheme a few months is nothing in comparison to the years you have been married. Focus on you and your son for now. I'll be watching!
The one I am most concerned with is S14. Is there anything that can be done?
What does L say?
There was another Joe here who managed to save his SS and his SD, as well as his joint children with WW. That was because WW crossed state lines though and it was going to be very disruptive.
Would you have S14 live with you if you could?
V
V! I missed you!
You know that I love that boy as my own son. I'm 200% sure I'd take him with me if I could. Unfortunately, there would have to be some serious neglect brought up to authorities before it would even become a remote option.
L says I have no rights to him at all.
I pray for a resolution to the situation that involves sanity for WW, for everyone's sake.
Salazar:
You are right, a few months is nothing. I truly tried everything I could, but I know the timeframe has been short. WW continued to increase her cruelty towards me. It became too much for my kids to bear. I could handle it all. All of it, I could take it. The abuse, the name calling, the mental torture, the debasement, the gaslighting. But my two kids were watching all of this. They understood what was going on, but they didn't deserve to be thrown in the middle of it all.
After WW denied S14 Chinese food delivery (his absolute favorite) solely due to the fact I bought it, I knew I had to make a change.
Look, the fact is she is a different person. She has abandoned everyone that meant anything to her before she flipped out. For what? OM? Some bullsht new "BFFL" that is living vicariously through her? Guess what WW, they are both going to drop you when you're no fun anymore. When you lose your job and your home and what little stability I left behind... Then what? I feel bad for S14 but at some point I had to realize I couldn't be there for him anymore. She removed me from his life as best she could. That was not my fault. That I did everything right, even leading up to BD.
I'm thankful I won't be there for the nuclear meltdown... But I left the door open. I let S14 know to lean on me if he has to. I left him clear plans to get help from me or other family in case of complete implosion by WW. I left the door open for WW too. If any vestiges of W remain in her warped mind, she knows. She knows I've always been there for her 300%. She knows I'm safe. She knows I have love for her, despite everything.
If she wants to ask for forgiveness and work on R then ok. We can start from the bottom again. Until then, I'm detached. Despite the fact that she hasn't detached from me.
I am actually doing better than her! She has gone off the deep end. Very heartbreaking to watch.
Joe
It's ok but it's heartbreaking.
The devastation of this type of abuse is awful. I know this, truly I do. I left the G because of it. It is so so damaging. Every bit of it.
You may have lwgacy PTSD as the target. If your pattern is typical then relief will follow quickly as you breathe and see that you are released. Then a strange sort of memory loss occurs as if this didn't happen. That's when you will need these posts on this site, to remind you. It's called abuse amnesia, a way your brain negates trauma with dissociation. Not to be confused with detachment as it seems like it is.
WW has her ego running the show and she has shown who she is. The path to the ugly begins, recently Cherry said something amazing she said her WH was a good looking man but he was now ugly. His living conditions had deteriorated as he decompensated. That is the point you can step in for S14. This is truly awful for you all, I own this T shirt of being abused. Recovery is slow but continuously moving forward.
The worst knowledge of all for me was to know that the G behaviour was deliberate to achieve control and my sense that he had won. For a very long time I replayed everything in my mind over and over, if I had done X or Y? And I bought the G abusive view of me too, I sense you see WW at this stage as the abuser. I didn't and sadly this continues with periods of self doubt. At least once I was fooled back into R and promises of reform. It wasn't reform and the next round was worse. To start with I felt the OW9 (BIT) wasn't a target too, although now I see it different.
Kathy Krajco says abusers fear the 'knowing look' more than anything else. Being able to look straight into the eyes of the abuser and they know you can see the malevolence inside, is destructive to them. For a long time I felt that by leaving I had let the G win, I went back and finally in one grand finale he left. The G likes abuse, likes to blame as like all abusers they need to blame and abuse to avoid looking within. The karma of this is that they can not look inside themselves and reflect and grow. The beauty for the LBS is that we can. I say beauty because there is a phenomenon called post traumatic growth which for adults is a gift that will create true knowledge.
In the end it is always the LBS that lets go and you will see the ugly. As the target of abuse you are likely going to be repulsed. I wish you peace and more than that I wish you anger. Good motivating Zues style anger, that really helps.
WW denied her own son his favourite food? truly this is abuse of her own child, which is horrific. I am sad he can not be with you and S16. Also my apologies in an earlier post I confused the two young men.
You didn't say but does S14 have a father in this?
I am including this mite in my prayers, and hoping beyond hope that things will go well for you and S16.
V
V:
No, S14 does not have a father other than me. This sitch is terrible for him the most. I feel like a bad father for leaving him behind but legally I had to. I had to realize I had to leave them both in order to help S14. It really did destroy my emotions over the weekend, but my week started better.
WW left me alone for about a day before she started temp checking me. Phone calls and TM that have gone unanswered by me.
She wanted me out of the house. She got it. She wants a D. She's getting it. She is getting everything she wants but she is not happy at all. She is very angry and is still blaming me even though I am not there.
I did get a text that had a tone that was different, a tone that showed her personal despair a bit more than I expected. She is having financial issues and can't handle her bills. She knows better than to ask me for help at this point. I am continuing to pay my fair share of expenses, of course. But I'm not going to bail her out.
She has realized that I'm moving on and that I am not willing to be friends so she used S14 and told me that he twisted his ankle and needed some medicine. I did not respond because she is perfectly capable of taking him to the clinic, which she should have done in the beginning. This created a series of rage messages that were on cue. Very sad.
I'm watching her fall on her face, and every instinct I have says that I should help her. However due to this community, I know the truly loving response is to let her fall as part of letting go. She must come to the realization that SHE created all of this before she can recover to a stable state for herself and S14.
If she can do that, there may be a chance for recon. If not, then there never will be a chance for MR version 2. I don't have much time as far as MR version 1 goes... We will likely be settling this in mediation within the next month or two. WW is supposedly getting the house ready for sale.
Meanwhile I'm still GAL and making plans for me and S16 to have a good future. I hate how this ended up but I'm not defeated. I have done a considerable amount of introspection and made tremendous strides using DB principles. I will miss my old life but it's time for something new.
It's too early to know if my sitch is a "failure" at recon. But I do have to let go before any other parts of LRT have a chance of taking effect. I just have to keep moving forward with my life.
Wow. Looks like the separation at least got things 'unstuck' for her. Who knows how this is going to go, but you seem like you're steady and doing well. I am so sorry about S14. That has to be awful.
Hey Joe (as Hendrix once said!),
I have had to dip out to sort D stuff. Apologies!
So, catching up, you seem to be at the stage of feeling sorry for kids and for this mess (for you and all involved).
Just remember, that by being the best version of you is the only answer. You will find peace in that and I can start to see that. That shows you are on the right path. Keep on that path. These feelings will go. You will also stop questioning her motives, why she is ......etc. You have to focus on being the best you and the best parent. The kids see this and so will you looking back.
Only when you rebuild your happiness will you find peace. Sounds very "cliche'd" but it is true.
She will not stop blaming you, but that is re-writing history in part. It was/is her choice to behave this way so try not to overthink it.
You will get there mate. Just keep moving, keep a level head. Be a fair and good man but remain objective and fair at all times.
You will get into a rhythm of filtering her conversation. Mostly into the 'this is probably bullshit' box. Just take what she says and does as bullshit - but just stay plain in your responses (indifferent) and you will learn your reaction through habit. That will deflate her attempts to temp test and if she does you will not feel the pavlovian response that you had before. You will create a new pavlovian response - neighbour etc.
You have this. Now just secure your own happiness and spend time being good company with the kids. All they need is time and attention and good meeories in your company now.
Been there. You will be absolutely fine and soon you will feel relief (which I expect you are starting to feel). Then, you will feel like the old you again.
Try not to overthink Joe. Keep busy and keep going.
Do me a favour and recognise that there are people that don't learn that change comes from within. They keep getting on the roller coaster, the arguments etc. They massively damage the kids. What you are doing is changing and I promise you are protecting them better than you really understand. So give yourself a massive pat on the back. They will see you as a hero. You never need to apologise for that.
Surfer.
Surfer:
Thanks for checking in on me. I am doing OK. I still have a few episodes of self doubt and self pity here and there. It is becoming easier to deal with.
The temp checking is always sad because I am always hoping beyond hope that she will say the magic words "I fcked up". But I know in my heart I will probably never get that from her. It is still a heartbreaking experience for me. I still feel like I was disposable to her.
However, I am recovering... I am getting at least some relief from the physical S. I hate how this happened but I know it is for the best. I am still doing GAL things all the time.
I'm in a better place emotionally but I am still sometimes hit with panic or intense sadness. It is becoming easier to live with the truth, but I still have this need to understand what is not understandable. Hopefully I can take your advice and not over think things.
It's been insanely sad for me to watch her deteriorate like this.
I truly tried everything I could, but I know the timeframe has been short.
So maybe now is a good time to try 'patience'.
Im not staying to stop what you are doing. But maybe stop taking such a hardline 'the R is dead' stance and just focus on being the best dad you can for your kids and on getting yourself healthy again. Let W do what shes going to do for a while.
This time you have is a gift, even though you dont see it now. Dont rush through it just to get to the end faster.
I appreciate the sentiment!
Unfortunately, I'm not the one rushing. WW filed almost immediately after BD, and now I'm a couple weeks away from mediation. I'm trying to be as realistic as possible.
Unfortunately, I'm not the one rushing. WW filed almost immediately after BD, and now I'm a couple weeks away from mediation. I'm trying to be as realistic as possible.
.....so.....?
My comments have nothing to do with the physical separation of your assets. Take the time now to focus on whats important. Your mental and physical well being and the lives of your sons. Try to de-emphasize your W and the relationship you have with her for now.
The way you are talking about the end of your R with W and your dropping of the room sound to me like you are trying to convince yourself to let that happen. Like if you say it enough and with enough emphasis, that it will be true. Emotions are pretty high right now, and the calculus you are using to think and to make decisions is jaded by that. Give yourself some time to breathe, to grieve, to grow, and to learn.
Joe. I've had multiple Bds. Separation happened in September, w filed in October(to get a deadline for our M?) and told me couple weeks later after filing that this is over, done, caput and finito. And a month after that I found this place. Too late? Possibly. But after all you have to remember that marriage is merely an institution. It can be taken down but it can also be rebuilt. That's why I'm not that afraid of D. It's going to hurt, it's going to hurt like the fire below but it's NOT the end. Keep it up!
I truly tried everything I could, but I know the timeframe has been short.
So maybe now is a good time to try 'patience'.
Im not staying to stop what you are doing. But maybe stop taking such a hardline 'the R is dead' stance and just focus on being the best dad you can for your kids and on getting yourself healthy again. Let W do what shes going to do for a while.
This time you have is a gift, even though you dont see it now. Dont rush through it just to get to the end faster.
I agree with patience. Focus on yourself, your physical, mental, and emotional health. Now that you are separated it should be a little easier to do that. As far as the D process, take your time and make each decision deliberately. I'm not suggesting outright delay tactics, only that you do not need to be in a rush even if the W is.
I get what you guys are saying. I am working on myself, and yes it is such easier being separated physically. I'm healing as fast as possible, in other words slowly.
I am not going to hold onto false hope. I'm just waiting for all the processes to play out. The D processes, the WW processes, the healing processes...
Meanwhile I'm just going to GAL and spend time with the kids.
I'll try to be more patient. I know my sitch is less than 3 months old.
Joe,
I think it is wise to just try and live for today still. Kind of let things happen and accept them. You are of course doing this, but people are just trying to get you to see that being patient and kind to you and working on your healing and being the best person you can be for you and the kids is it. One of the reasons this is good is that it no doubt helps you take stock, so you can accept where you are at each point in time. That way you will look back much less and say 'why' and blame yourself. You will of course do this and feel sad of course. But in time the frequency of these feelings fall away much, they may never go in total, but they will hardly be there hopefully soon. Already you have reduced your anxiety and roller coastering massively. Keep on going mate. You are doing very well. Leave her to mess up her side of the street, stay focused on yours.
Surfer.
Are you seeking for reconciliation still?
Surfer:
I'm doing my best for me and my boy. I'm no longer allowed to contact S14 so that was a bummer but WW is still definitely in "the fog". She has TM multiple times for me to call her because she has important things to talk about but when I responded back it all ended up being trivial stuff that did not need to be a phone call.
So, the temp checks continue. It's very odd coming from someone who used to be so rational. It's really like she lost a lot of her sanity over the past couple months. She is not a logical person anymore.
I've been taking this time away from her to heal as much as possible. I'm trying to just embrace the feelings of sadness and lonliness. It has been difficult but I'm adjusting. I know I need to be in a better place mentally and emotionally before I see her again at mediation. Physically I'm fine. I'm stronger than I've been in years and I shed almost 50 pounds. Don't worry though, I'm eating fine. Just eating better than I have for a while.
I'm getting there. Been spending a lot of time with old friends and making new connections as much as possible. I'm starting to see that the road ahead is not too bad. I have accepted that the marriage is over and my wife is gone. I have NO desire to be married to WW. She would have to do a lot of her own 180's to convince me that I should give her a second chance.
I'm ok. I'm very proud of myself for being so dedicated to DBing and my 180s. I think that I did LRT nearly perfectly starting less than 3 weeks after BD. Of course I had all of you wonderful people here to help me get to where I am today.
I could not have done anything more, nor could I have tried harder to save the MR.
Abohn:
I'm not seeking reconciliation. That would imply that I have some kind of control over WW's waywardness, and I don't. I just have to let go of it all and focus on myself and my child.
^^^That is a fantastic post Joe, you have grown a ton since coming here! Keep it up brother, you are doing great!
I'm trying to just embrace the feelings of sadness and loneliness.
That is exactly the thing to do. Sure they are unpleasant feelings but they are VALID feelings and we need to accept them as part of our range of daily/ weekly/ monthly emotions and not try to fight them or make them go away. We have a saying in Crossfit (which I have to tell myself nearly every workout)- "embrace the suck." Sometimes you just know a big ol' heaping helping of "suck" is being plopped in your lap, and almost always the best approach is to smile and make it your b****
Joe
AnotherStander is right. You kind of have to embrace it. More accept it. You are doing that and you are right to be proud of yourself.
Keep going mate. Very proud of what you are doing.
Surfer.
I read this. It’s about narcissitic behaviour. I don’t agree with the label per se. But read it. Below. Forget the label.
“Narcissists and other personality disordered abusers lie. They lie about big stuff and they lie about little inconsequential things like buying milk at the market when they bought Kombucha. They also gaslight, which is a special kind of lying in which they deny things they say or did, even when you've witnessed these things with your own eyes and ears.
Why do they lie? Several reasons, but if a narcissist can get you to believe their lies, half-truths, distortions and historical revisions, then they're determining your reality (no matter how much BS they're slinging). When the narcissist, borderline or psychopath determines your reality, they are in control.
They're always right, you're always wrong. They're not cheating -- how dare you think that about them? What's wrong with you? According to the narcissist's reality, your job is to serve them, and expect little to nothing in return.
Perhaps you've tried using facts and logic when you JADE (justify, argue, defend, explain) as they accuse and attack you. The facts are what the narcissist says they are. As such, facts are refutable, especially if they portray the narcissist in a bad light. Using logic to point out that their lies don't make sense just makes them all the more angry. Angry that you're not believing their lies and circular reasoning.
Narc Clube Rule #4 requires that you accept facts are meaningless and logic is incendiary. Reality is determined by the narcissist and subject to endless revisions. Still want to belong to this club?”
Surfer
Ahhh, thanks to you, we all now understand Trump's disease!!! 😁
Surfer:
Thanks for the article. My W never had any serious issues like she does now until BD. Then all of a sudden, she WAS ACTING LIKE A NARCISSIST! I have no idea where all of this inflated self-value came from, it's like she is doing mental acrobatics to maximize her value and minimize my value as a MAN and as a HUMAN. Maybe to justify her inhumane treatment of me. Maybe to justify how awful she has become. Maybe because she is coping with devolving into a horrible human being.
She is now the complete opposite of the person I married.
It's awful, but I've learned the rules of the game. That's why I have stayed NC for weeks except for business. I don't have time for her BS anymore. I have my OWN PROBLEMS now, and you know what? I'm GLAD. They're MINE. I am my own person with my own problems and my own solutions.
I don't have time to worry about her finances. I don't have time to worry about her health. I don't have time to worry about her car. I don't have time to worry about her life, because she threw me OUT of her life. Unceremoniously, cruelly, and without remorse.
She blows up my phone each day. Every day she tries to get my on the phone. Calling me. Asking me to call her. Telling me she has important things to say. No, these are only things that are important TO HER. Not me. Maybe they involve my property, but property is a small price to pay for my safety and sanity.
I am doing everything I promised. Giving her what she wants out of the D. Selling the house. Moving out. These have been my final acts of love in our MR. She should be happy but she's not. She's miserable. Nothing is enough for WW.
But you know, it's not my problem anymore.
I can't believe it's been only three months. It feels like years.
I feel like I have made progress. I only break down a few times a week now. I listened to the RADIO TODAY!!!! Wow I could not do that... every song reminded me of our MR. I saw a picture of her on my phone and I was OK... I didn't fall apart. I have been able to feel warmth for my kid again. I'm planning my future.
Small progress, but I'm getting there.
This is not how I envisioned my MR, or even my DB/LRT/180/GAL. I had hoped beyond hope that we could recon and move on. But I can't do it alone, and she is still way lost in the fog. I'm so saddened by it, but I can't do anything to solve the problems. It's like she's mentally ill now, and she will never agree that anything is wrong with her so I can't fix this MR.
I have to move on. Maybe she will come around. Maybe she won't. Only time will tell.
Thanks for the support everyone. You are all amazing. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and experiences with us all. You're lifesavers.
Maybe one day I will be able to repay the kindness and compassion you have all shown me.
Joe,
You will feel like it's all out of control - less frequently than before, but you still will. It is not. I can tell from what you are writing that you are doing exactly what you need to do, just keep doing it.
The conversion from the loved one to the Narcissist is stark and appalling. But it happens. They are, of course, not Narcissists. That is a very specific mental definition (like psychopathy) and they can't all be this. What I think is happening is an affair and projection in simple terms. The affair takes place then the guilt and horrible feelings inside. They project that in their behaviour. They get a release doing this and this is their payoff so they must be right in this (as it makes them feel better). Your role, as you are, is not letting them play this game. Understanding how to define boundaries, understanding TA, the Drama Triangle etc are all tools that will help you in this role. Read and study, become a Jedi in this shi! It will help you and the kids.
Exactly, you have your OWN problems. She will not accept hers and will project them onto you.
Surfer
Hey Vanilla.
I'm not great. I'm better each and every day, but I'm just at the low point of my week. Lots of D related things happening now. Selling the MH, revising the D paperwork, interacting with attorneys. It's all very sad.
I don't have many friends left that I can talk to. I basically only have one friend from my single days that will still interact with me, and we aren't really very close. All I really have is my kid and my job. My family doesn't understand, and of course I can't talk to them about things. I am trying to make new friends but it's really not very easy for me at this point in my life. Can't make any new friends at work because of politics. Can't make any new friends at church because of politics. I am doing my best but I haven't really clicked with anyone, which means it just isn't meant to be right now.
But that's OK. It is very very hard doing this without any emotional support but this ordeal has shown me how resilient I am.
It's been like a tornado. Who gets BD, served, and then finalizes a divorce in less than 3 months? Apparently, me.
It really makes me feel disposable. Oh well.
Life goes on. Tomorrow is a new day.
Joe, I'll write more later but I wish there'd be a way we could be friends in real life because as you know I'm in the same position.
This all happened so fast for you but it also seems like your wife may not have thought through all her actions. She might still wake up someday and say "what have I done?" My guess, although I could be wrong, is that our spouses are thinking only of themselves during these times and it's not until their life settles down and they reach a low point themselves that they start to remember us.
It's been like a tornado. Who gets BD, served, and then finalizes a divorce in less than 3 months? Apparently, me.
Joe, I really feel for you here. In my sitch, I am somewhat relieved that California has a 6-month waiting period to slow things down. At least emotionally it helps a little.
You need to find activities where you can build new friendships and bond with other people. I started playing soccer, and I now have a team of guy friends. We've done pizza and beer after games and a poker night. While I don't dump my problems on them, the friendship and interaction helps fill the void left. You could do bowling, softball, take dancing lessons, do crossfit, or anything where the same group of people go and you get to know them.
It's been like a tornado. Who gets BD, served, and then finalizes a divorce in less than 3 months? Apparently, me.
Hey Joe,
Right now I feel I'm in the same boat as you. My wife dropped the bomb and 4 days later moved out into her mom's house. I feel she will be filing soon and will be moving on. I've been working on GAL and DB'ing and have stuck to it as best as I can. It has helped ease the process a little bit.
Don't get me wrong, I still hold on to some hope that we can reconcile, but it's not what is driving me to DB.
Joe, I know how you feel. It seems like making friends is so much harder now that we're older. A lot of "my" friends were the men in the couples we used to socialize with, and it's hard now not to feel like a third wheel when we get together.
Something that I've found, though, is many of them are in the same boat, wanting some male friends they can hang out with, and all I really have to do is ask if they want to get together. One even pulled me aside and said "You know, I've been thinking... I don't really have any just "guy" friends. Give me a call and lets get together and do something."
Another thing I've been doing, is there are single guys that we knew, but weren't close with, because we didn't really get together because we were doing things with other couples. I've been reaching out to them, and they've been great.
Like Fast Cars said, I am finding group activities helpful to meet people, too. Both men and women. I've heard both good and bad things about meetup.com, but you might want to look up similar groups online in your area. You're sure to find some people with common interests. Most of the bad I've heard is from women who complain that men are just using it to pick up women.
Nicole:
Thanks for the thoughts. I feel the same way, like she will one day realize she messed up. However I know my W will bury her feelings of regret and never admit to them. She's too proud. Not my problem though. She does email and text me with her issues and complains as if it were still somehow my responsibility to be there for her. It's not, and that was HER decision. Those messages go right into the NC trash bin.
FC, apothem, Jim:
Yeah, it's brutal how fast she moved on this. But that's OK. In the end, she is the one missing out on being with me. Making friends is not typically all that hard for me. I'm just in that awkward period where my ex's friends and spouses definitely will not talk to me, and our mutual friends are hands off of us like we have a divorce disease. lol. Also, my old friends grew apart from me when I got married. Not a big deal, it's temporary.
I can be very outgoing, so being this lonely will not last long. I just have to get over my ex. It will happen and I will be happy again.
I'm already 10 times happier than I was when I first came to this site, so at least I know I'm making progress. One day at a time.
Joe, there is a book called "Left Alone to Learn" on Amazon that I found helpful. You might want to order it.
Thanks Nicole. I’ll take a look at it, looks like it can be gotten online pretty affordable. How have you been Nicole? I know things have been rough lately.
I am alright, mostly. I have a lot of clarity these days, mostly due to getting away from the sudden and spontaneous abuse. That was the most shocking thing for me... this woman turned into a complete stranger and became the most vile and offensive person I’ve ever been involved with. It was really very sad to watch.
If all goes smoothly I will be done with this MR before the end of next month. I don’t know how to feel about that. I still occasionally have a small freak out when I don’t feel my wedding band on my finger, and then realize that it’s NOT supposed to be there. Then I’m sad for a little while but I get over that pretty quick. I have not made this D easy for WW but I have not outright stood in her way either. She still powered through it and it is almost a done deal.
Meanwhile, I have made myself into a new Joe. I’ve become more confident and assertive. My coworkers have commented on how much better I am lately and one even said I look really good since I trimmed down. I have not made many new friends, which is not permanent. I have only just begun my new life. My kid seems to be doing better and has kept in contact with S14, which I think is important for them.
WW still hits up my phone at least once a day but I just ignore it. I refuse to talk on the phone with her. My NC game is pretty strong these days. I have nothing to say to her unless she wants to ask for forgiveness and start piecing. I can’t make that happen at all, yet I can’t say my DB was a failure because I am not a failure. In the end, all that matters is that I’m OK and my son is OK. And we will be!
Joe
I am very pleased to hear some of this. Especially about S16 and S14 connecting. That's great news to my ears and eyes and quite unexpected, a good development.
Yes, unmasked the wayward is a very different person and it is frightening. DB is a successful thing for you, it saw you through a tough time, you are becoming a man only a fool would leave AND once you know you will never unknow.
What have you learned to stop being in this position again?
V
Joe, that's impressive to hear how you've become more confident and assertive. If your wife doesn't notice that, some other lucky woman will notice. I wish your wife would 'wake up' but I think she will someday, even if it's after the divorce. It happened so fast that there's no way this decision was made carefully and under a normal mindset.
I responded to your last post on my own thread...I'm not sure how far back it is. I'm still grappling with the latest things my husband has said but he divorce is still on.
I hope if divorce really happens this fast for you that it's for the best. Sometimes the longer it takes, the more suffering you endure. If it's over fast then you're moving on faster.
I'm really happy that you're doing the impossible and getting through this with strength. It's not easy at all.
Thanks Nicole.
That was the most shocking thing for me... this woman turned into a complete stranger and became the most vile and offensive person I’ve ever been involved with. It was really very sad to watch.
\
Is this normal behavior, because my WW did the exact same thing, from a loving lady that I would never see hurt me to a viscous women with nothing but lies and contempt.
I'm also on the same path as you, I don't want anything to do with her at this point unless she wants to talk about forgiveness, which I doubt will ever happen, she has way too much pride in her. Im counting the days until I no longer have to live in the same house with her and I can get on with my life.
I hope if divorce really happens this fast for you that it's for the best. Sometimes the longer it takes, the more suffering you endure. If it's over fast then you're moving on faster.
I'm really happy that you're doing the impossible and getting through this with strength. It's not easy at all.
Nicole just like Joe, my divorce moved very fast, she kept telling me she was going to file but then I just went ahead and had my attorney file, 1 day before she was about to, do you think I may have jump the gun, I just want this pain to go away and having her leave the house feels like it would help.
Manny,
If you are asking that question you werent ready. But you cant change the past. Continue DBing and keep moving forward. You still have to heal yourself.
Manny,
If you are asking that question you werent ready. But you cant change the past. Continue DBing and keep moving forward. You still have to heal yourself.
She has an OM and I felt like I was being disrespected, I felt like I needed to let her know I wasn’t going to continue this way. I guess it wouldn’t have mattered since she tried to file as well. I wasn’t ready your right, but the pain was too much for me just to sit her and watch her day after day trying to figure out what she’s going to do. I’d rather pull the band aid fast then slow.
Joe
I am very pleased to hear some of this. Especially about S16 and S14 connecting. That's great news to my ears and eyes and quite unexpected, a good development.
Yes, unmasked the wayward is a very different person and it is frightening. DB is a successful thing for you, it saw you through a tough time, you are becoming a man only a fool would leave AND once you know you will never unknow.
What have you learned to stop being in this position again?
V
Thanks V! I am glad the boys are keeping in touch, even if it's just through SM or TM, or whatever. It's good for them to be able to lean on each other if they have to.
What have I learned to keep from being in this position again? That's a great question.
I think that I learned that keeping a woman's respect engaged is extremely important. I think that in my MR I had very specific challenges in that regard, due to my XW's control issues. It was hard to steer our family when she had to have control of the wheel at all times. I took as much control as I could in as many aspects as I could, but in the end she decided that she didn't want to give up ANY control anymore. I can look back on comments she made mid-year and a couple minor arguments that arose from those comments. I never thought she would stoop to become a cheater, but she did. She then became a very different person because of it.
So in the future? I think I will be more careful. I think I will pay more attention to red flags. I will look at things from a less needy perspective, and I will probably be much much more guarded. Another thing I think will happen is that I will apply DBing concepts to healthy relationships. Even if I marry again, 3 4 or 5 years into it I will still be using some parts of LRT because it is so useful for personal growth.
I will never let a relationship stagnate. I will always do my best to stay ahead of the curve. I will never take a good relationship for granted. I have much more perspective on relationships now. I have especially learned a lot about the woman's perspective from all of our interactions here, and from Sandi too.
From where I'm standing now, my old life is like an island on fire and I'm just watching it smolder while WW stands on the beach holding a torch. I don't know how to make amends with her, because she doesn't want to. She is still offensive and projects her anger on me, even a month after I moved out of the MR. I don't have a lot of hope for recon because she is still out there burning sht down. Maybe one day she will come to her senses. If she does, I will talk to her. If she does not, we will be estranged from now on.
I still have bouts of sadness because of it, but they have become much easier to deal with. This has been a crash course in life. Within the span of three months I have given up two thirds of my life and had to start over from scratch. Myself and my boy are living out of plastic bags because I don't even have any furniture right now. But it is OK because we have a place to stay that is safe from abuse and threats.
I will be able to buy new stuff soon enough.
But I'm doing it all on my own, and I'm doing the best I can now. I am healing, and I can slowly see myself being happy again. It will just take time.
So a Joe2017 update:
The paperwork is all in order. Date is set for three weeks from now. Showing up in court for me is optional and my attorney said he would go for me in my place, and I'm good with that. I don't want to see WW again.
Our MH listed and should be sold soon enough, since it's had a ton of interest already.
S14 and S16 still keep in touch. S16 decided himself that he did not want to associate with WW anymore after he found out that WW cut me off from S14. But I'm glad the two boys still communicate. I worked really hard to teach them how to be kind, respectful, and gracious to one another, and it appears to have worked as well as could be expected given the current state of affairs. (See what I did there? Lol.)
As for WW, she has eased up a lot. We spoke on the phone a few times, and it was cordial enough. She tries to be friendly and send me jokes and what not but I stay pretty neutral. She did apologize to me for the entire situation, but that didn't really register with me. I'm sure she's started to come to the realization that this is all totally her fault but she will never admit it to me at this point.
I don't even know how I'd reconcile at this stage of the process, so that's just not even in my plans anymore.
I've been pretty good overall but I have my moments. I burned some Pop Tarts in the toaster the other day and started to cry. For some reason I just felt this overwhelming sense of failure, over POP TARTS. Of course, it was EVERYTHING and not just pastries. It was a short and rare occurrence but I think it's important that I bounced back from it in less than a day.
I'm just waiting until this is over so I can really start working towards some personal goals for myself and my son.
I've come to realize that goals are SUPREMELY important for my mental health. What's next? What's after that? How can I get there? Accomplish accomplish accomplish. Keep moving forward!
Joe, wow that is so fast for a court date.
Did your wife apologize in a way that seemed she'd be willing to reconcile?
Sorry to hear about the pop tarts. Strange things can trigger a lot of emotions. It's nice to hear you were able to bounce back. It sounds like you're doing really well.
It's good that you've found what helps. I hope you reach each and every one of your goals. It sounds like you're a great role model for your son and that's really important for him to have a dad like you.
I absolutely agree on the goals, and this is something I have worked very hard to master. And it has helped enormously.
It is one of my great skills now! Yeah V is bragging....
One suggestion, goals work well with visualisation and activity/vision boards. I now create these on my ipad pro and laminate them when printed as folder dividers. I also have them as desktop pictures and screen savers. I have an apple pencil....
I have recently learned bullet journaling too.
It has really really helped.
Yes I noticed what you did, good for you.
And if you add furniture to your vision board it is likely to turn up.
I do understand wanting complete NC from your ex wayward, that's my stance too. It frustrates them enormously to loose control.
I am glad you are both safe.
V
Nicole:
Thank you for the words of encouragement! They mean a lot to me! I read on your thread that you'll be moving sometime this year. I think by then things will be easier for you. These wounds don't heal but they do close up over time. I can tell that you have made progress. Keep it up!
V:
The vision board is a good idea. I currently have my goals on my phone in notes but pictures will definitely help me "see" where I want to go. I have been focusing on my newfound freedoms a lot lately and it has been liberating to an extent. I still have my moments where the memories come back but it's becoming easier to focus on the good than the bad.
One day at a time, right?
Joe,
How’s it going chap?
Surfer
Joe, I also wonder how you're doing lately?
Hey guys, thanks for thinking of me.
Well the divorce is final and the house is sold. I have a new place I'm renting for myself and my son. I got none of the good furniture and she left me with a mess to clean up in the house. Anyways. It is over and done.
Some days are still better than others, but the pain is less sharp. It's more like getting slapped than getting stabbed in the heart, although I do have moments where I zone out. Very similar to the PTSD I used to experience before. Overall, it took WW four months to divorce me. I did not put up a fight in court or argue over petty crap. I took it on the chin and pushed forward with my own life.
People coming to this site will read my story as a failure, but it's not. This D was a huge personal success for me. If you read my history and see how lost and emotionally destroyed I was 4 months ago, I am like a different person.
I am much more confident today than I was when the bomb was dropped on me. I have more time for my boy. I have more time and money to do the things I want to do. I have a great place and a great truck now. My job is going very well. Am I happy? No, not right now... but I can say that I absolutely know that I will be.
I did speak with WW on the phone not too long ago. She admitted to everything and apologized to me. She knows she was wrong. She told me that this was all about her and not about me. She isn't doing any of those things. The only thing she's getting that I'm not is sex (and that's only because I consciously don't want to while I'm healing emotionally). Everything else that I mentioned above she is lacking in her life.
Looking back, I often wonder if doing what I did was the right thing... the harsh NC. The DBing. All of that. Sometimes I wonder if my actions post BD were contributing factors, but they're not.
She was cheating on me. I don't have time for that. I deserve better. My son deserves better. (So does hers.)
I saw her accidentally about a month ago at the school. Fake hair. Fake nails. Fake tan. Fake everything. She is so plastic now. Maybe she always was? I almost did not recognize her.
Fck that crap, I want a real woman in my life. Someone genuine. Someone strong. Not this weak artificial and superficial person my wife developed into.
So, when it's all said and done... did I get her back? No. I did not get her back, but I did get something even more important.
I got ME back.
So just keep walking Joe. Living the present and facing the future. Past is past. Take care of you and your S. You have got your own repect back.
Joe,
It's nice to hear your updates. It's kind of unbelievable the divorce is done and everything happened so fast. I wonder how some divorces take years and others can happen within weeks? I guess it's because you and she agreed on everything.
I remember you talking about how your wife was getting attention from other men but I can't remember at the moment if you caught her cheating? Did she ever tell you she was cheating herself? Is this whole ordeal because of a guy she met who she's now with?
When your wife admitted this is her fault did she seem to want to get back together? Or reconcile? Or was it more like "sorry, it's my fault, but I don't regret it!" I'm just curious because I'm still trying to understand how people like that think.
In some ways, the way this happened for you is better than spending years in limbo waiting, reconciling and being cheated on again, or just staying separated without any certainty (like my situation). I guess at least you made a swift recovery and now you're free to focus on your son and fall in love again when the time is right.
It's still sad though. You deserve a loyal, loving wife. You didn't do anything wrong. I hope it keeps getting better and better from here.
Nicole:
I did not catch her in the act but I saw messages and she admitted to it. Yes, she is with the guy now. It's already "Facebook official" with them. No, she did not seem to want to reconcile. I asked her if she was happy and she wouldn't answer the question. She apologized for acting awful towards me, but had excuses. She justifies all of her actions, as if the things she did were OK because she says so.
For instance, it wasn't cheating because in her mind we were "basically separated by then". And by then she means while we were still living in the same house.
I feel kind of bad for her, but she does not have my sympathy.
Nicole, I don't know if we can ever understand this kind of thing. Everything about my wife changed for the worst. I admit I still feel very sad about the marriage failing. I do feel very lonely at times. However, I do feel grateful that I have my kid and my health. I hate what happened but I'll be OK.
Joe
Posts not working from my iphone! (above)
I hope you are well.
Read your posts..
You are getting there my friend and I am proud of you. Just stick at it fella.
Surfer.
YJoe
My thoughts are that the only way you could have handled your sitch was as you did.
I understand that's not easy, that is largely because of trauma bonding. Just a quick explanation on this, we bond in childhood to parents as a result of our dependency on them for food, warmth and safety. We are rewarded by that bonding with love and nurture (if our parents or parent substitutes are healthy of course).
Our minds are structured to create those bonds, thus heavy emotional content creates bonding. That can be positive (such as love, care, celebration and joy) or negative (such as anger, blame, disparaging and sadness). We can't tell the difference.
That bond is like a dissociative state, we are incomplete without it. I call it the lost boy syndrome (as in Peter Pan). It is temporary.
NC is the only way to stop the lost boy syndrome (and boy includes both genders). It breaks the trauma bond eventually.
Do be careful as the type of abuse in your sitch can be destabilising, causing flashbacks and c PTSD. This may want you to recreate the familiar, the trauma bond. Being love bombed by an abuser can sweeten the bond and make it stronger.
It is a really tough gig, one of the toughest of all. Because it is unfair and makes little sense.
You did not make this dingbat W cheat nor cause her to lash out. She is entitled and loves being abusive. Know you are a good man, a kind and loving one and this is not on you.
I am here to listen to you. I have this T shirt and am waving to you that there will be a time when you reach the land of Meh and Neh.
V
Joe, it's kind of shocking that your wife is 'facebook official' with her new man just weeks after leaving you. Doesn't that look bad for her? Not that it matters to you but it's hard to believe someone would want to advertise their new partner immediately after they get divorced. That's really immature.
I can only share my sympathy regarding the loneliness and hating what happened. It sounds like you're mentally healthy but there's no shortcut around sometimes just feeling awful about this. I wish one day the perfect woman would appear in your life and you'll get another chance at happiness since you seemed to be a committed and sincere married man and deserve to have that again.
Hi everyone! It has been a hell of a ride, but I'm finally at my destination.
Surfer:
I really really appreciate you checking in on me. I have been doing my best to detach and move on with my life. Early on I wanted to R the MR but as time went on, I realized that it was not possible. All of the DB and 180s paid off tremendously. I am down over 50 pounds and feeling great. I can see that I have a fulfilling life ahead of me. I am focusing on my kid and my career, and I know that things are going to be OK.
V:
VANILLA! I am so happy to hear from you. Thank you so much for all of the support you've given me over the past few months. You are a jewel. Your insights have given me so much hope and strength. I want you to know that you've made a lasting and significant impact on my life. You hit the nail on the head when you said WW is entitled. I spoiled her and instead of appreciating the sacrifices I made, she let it go to her head. She lost me, and she will never get me back. I can't R with the person she has become. It would take a lot... It would have to be on the level that Sandi talks about. STD tests, drug tests, psych evals... She would never in a million years submit to the types of things she'd have to do to earn back my trust.
Nicole:
You are right, it's so odd to me about the FB thing. When we first started dating she didn't even want us to be together on FB because she wanted to take it slow. And now she is so different. I can't explain it, not do I care to even think about it anymore. Immature is an understatement. Thank you for saying I deserve a loyal and faithful wife!
Nicole, I know what you're going though is tough. I know it's hard. I know the feeling of abandonment, the strange feeling of guilt even though you did not deserve the treatment you got. You are right, there is no shortcut. You have to push through it and live your life. You owe it to your girl.
You WILL get there. One day, a few weeks ago I woke up on a Sunday and a surprising thing happened. I literally did not care about my divorce anymore. I felt 100% OK with my life. I can tell you are on that road too and I'm proud of you. And your girl will be proud of you too. Just give it time and know that you deserve happiness!
Thank you for the call out Joe, it is my great honour and privilege to post to you.
I wanted to comment on the FB thing. It is called triangulation otherwise known as the 'pick me' game. There are a few reasons I think why WW plays it.
1. You losT the 'pick' me game, but it's old. You lost an orange plastic barbie covered in glitter.
2. Look at me I am the prize, so keep playing the 'pick me' game. So you go 'nah' no longer playing the game is over. WW is trying to imply to the world the game is still going on.
3. The chocolate covered hearts and roses strategy, it's wuv with little ribbons. So cute that I don't care if I humiliate my kids because they will be happy for meeeeeee.....
4. I am first prize and one won by douche loins, my makeup covers my sores from STD.
5. Look I am a selfie, how pretty glam and fake I am. Doesn't this short skirt and no knickers suit my lack of morals? The new red lipstick goes with my low cut cheater shirt. My tarty roots of my hair show how high maintained I am. Adore me. Like me.
6. Share me.
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The G did this with the BIT. In court his Barrister asked if I was angry or upset with the G for his new R, was that the reason I didn't want to give the G, 'a fair settlement' so he could live his life with his new love kins possum poo poo. Did I resent him being happy if I was going to be an old maid now.
Or words to that effect.
I said "I am delighted he has a new bunny snugums, who he says is really rich with houses of her own. (Evidence in court pack), his new bunnie wunnie love bug can house him. Thrilled he is in Italy (Evidence in court pack), as it's cheaper to live than the UK. It would only be better if he had picked a New Zealander.
In my non mol hearing this came up again:
Oh and if he is so happy why is the BIT having her hair styled like me, wearing one of my tops and my necklace (one he took)? In her early photos the BIT is small dark and slightly dumpy in a cute way. In her later love um photos she is blonde with piled hair and push up bra, aka MM style. God knows what he has done to her ego to make that change. In other words for a while she looked like me!
I didn't say the last bit, I just included the FB pictures as Evidence in the Pack. There was a gasp as even his Barrister saw that enforced likeness. Freaky weird.
In other words by doing this one sided 'pick me' it is as much for the engagement of the OP as it is for us. The cheater liarnut job knows we are DONE, and to save face must invest in their new snookums, schmoopie. The game to devalue is on and it's not us.
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This also reflects back to image, these cheater creatures aren't solid in themselves, they mirror back to their partner who the partner wants to see. Like method acting you want a loving mom, wife and partner, that's what they will act out. You want a blonde big booked hookeR style Tango girl, then it's that. With costume changes.
And they will manipulate their other half into an image that glorifies them if needs be.
So truly your W wasn't ever really the first soccer mom or the second floozie girl because actually there isn't anything there but a prop wardrobe.
----------------------
It would be hilarious if it wasn't so hurtful.
V
Joe, it's kind of shocking that your wife is 'facebook official' with her new man just weeks after leaving you. Doesn't that look bad for her? Not that it matters to you but it's hard to believe someone would want to advertise their new partner immediately after they get divorced. That's really immature.
I can only share my sympathy regarding the loneliness and hating what happened. It sounds like you're mentally healthy but there's no shortcut around sometimes just feeling awful about this. I wish one day the perfect woman would appear in your life and you'll get another chance at happiness since you seemed to be a committed and sincere married man and deserve to have that again.
Nicole, in the limerance phase people do this kind of thing. I have a cousin that a couple of years ago said her husband cheated on her and she was leaving him. Low and behold, she had a new beau! She couldn't wait, even before her D was final (and it was uncontested I might add) to get pictures up of her and her new boyfriend! Her parents didn't think she should even be dating so soon, let alone advertising to the world. But she was in love and couldn't wait to share.
It is sickening, but so many are enamored with the limerance phase of a relationship. And once that phase is over, so to is the relationship for many of them. It shows a lack of maturity and understanding about what true love really is. Oh, and also shows a blatant disregard for the commitment they took with their spouse.
All, there's a lot of good content in this thread about what happened to Joe's wife. It's helpful for others to read because it seems like such a mystery how people can do these things but apparently there is some common phenomenon that explains at least part of that behavior.
Joe, it's encouraging to hear you woke up one morning and had the "I don't care" feeling. It sounds like this is the best you can hope to achieve at this time.
V speaks so much truth in her posts it's scary. WW is now so fake and contrived. Barbie doll is accurate! Although I don't ever look at her social media, I've had people come up to me to tell me that she has awkward "family" photos up of her with S14 along with OM and his kids. Whatever. I'm done with her, and it doesn't matter to me. Unfortunately, I know S14 is going to have serious issues. I hate it for him, but that's life I guess.
She has made attempts to destroy my character, but none of that has worked. I wonder why? Maybe it's because my social media is all parenting activities and hers is nothing but partying and playing house. But wait! That's the truth. All I do these days is parent my boy and all she does is party. So it's easy to see where our priorities are.
Since coming here I have made tremendous strides in my personal growth as a person, as a father, and more importantly as a man.
During this phase of my life, I am going to show my boy how a real man overcomes adversity, heartbreak, and betrayal. This has become a pivotal moment in our lives and it's my job as a father to make the most of it.
Take care of your child Joe.
Stay away from XW whereabouts. It is just fuel for the mind games.
Keep detaching. Stay strong!
Joe,
Thankfully you have now moved on. All of this takes time my friend; and time is your best friend.
Seeing the new life ahead is amazing isn't it. You can make it better than it was before, for you and those you care for.
All of the guidance we get here is to help us to stagger, though awful times in the right direction. From there you find your own feet. You have found yours. I am grateful to see that; and mostly, pleased for you.
Well done. Know that there are very few strong Dad's that go through this. But to come out of this is a credit to you, but also to knowing right from wrong (and that's probably a parenting thing from your family - either you copy them or do the opposite).
Keep it up chap. I will keep checking in.
Try to help other on here too Joe. Your experienced enough to help. It will also help you. Don;t have to do it often, just pop in.
Surfer.
Joe,
How's life treating you. Update time.
Friends! It has been a long while since I posted. I did not forget about you all, but I knew that part of my healing involved separating from a lot of my past. Unfortunately that also meant that I had to stop revisiting my past here.
So why am I back? Well, for one thing. It is important for others to read that LIFE GOES ON. You will not die from this. I am providing just another story for you all to read about how progression can happen in a bad situation. No two sitches are the same, but as you probably know by now there are oftentimes many similarities in how waywards operate. REMEMBER! You will survive this! You will come out the other end of this tunnel and you will see the sunrise again. You WILL experience joy again, as long as you GET A LIFE and go live it! GAL your az off!!! ABG! Always be GALing!
Now for updates...
Updates about Joe2017:
I kept up my DB and reinvention of myself. I have reconnected with lots of old friends and made my life all about my career, self-improvement, and my kid. Things are going well. I am still at a very healthy weight, and I feel fit. I have received very high praise at work and I have been given raises and will be considered for a promotion within the next year. I was involved in one serious relationship for several months but I broke it off because it was best for my girlfriend. We are still good friends and there was no animosity afterwards. It was a very healthy relationship, but she needed someone who could give her more that I could offer in terms of time and attention. Yes, my kid was an obstacle there, but not a bad one. We both understood and agreed on this. She’s AWESOME.
Updates about kids:
My kid is doing great, and he has become a very responsible and mature young man. I am going to be an empty nester, but it will be alright! My ex’s son is doing well, all things considered. I was always able to get updates on him through my kid, even though I was forbidden from talking to him. They are growing up and I am so proud of both of them!
Updates about my sitch with WW:
I went NC for a very very long time. WW did temp check me a lot over the past year. It tapered off and became way less frequent. It started back up recently over the past couple months with her asking me to talk to her for a quick chat. This happened a few times. I always ignored her because if it was THAT important and quick, then she could start off by writing it in a message or email. Until then, I was not going to talk to her.
A couple weeks ago she did actually write down in a message what she wanted. She wrote an apology to me and my kids. She admitted fault for everything. She blamed herself for destroying our family and our kids. She wanted me to know that it was not me. It was her. She said she was a bad person, that she was wrong for what she did and she feels awful. She was convincing enough that I responded via message. We progressed like that for another day before I felt comfortable enough taking a phone call from her. This would be the first time I talked to her in a year.
We spoke on several occasions. I got updates about her situation with the OM. They are broken up now. As anyone and everyone predicted, he is a real piece of garbage that basically manipulated her into supporting him and his entire family. One thing that made me laugh was that he has constantly compared himself to me throughout their relationship. It sounded like he was very insecure and that he was threatened by my existence. Wow, was that a refreshing and entertaining bit of information to hear. For all of you LBS’s out there reading my posts... YOU ARE WORTHY!!! The OP is in NO WAY better than you!!!!! I promise! Get out there and GAL! Make the world know DAMN WELL that you are the winner in the situation!!!
I did agree to meet WW for lunch. We chatted for a long time. She told me she made a mistake in leaving me. She said it was the worst mistake of her life and that she regrets it every day. She gave me a real apology that I believe to be sincere. WW said she wishes she could get a chance to go back in time and do it all over again because she was never happier in her life than when she was with me and she has no idea why she thought things would be better if she left me. She said our marriage was “too perfect” and it made her uneasy, so she freaked out and left us. Weird reasoning, but it fits her weird behavior and how generally WEIRD she was at the time.
She wants to be friends. I think it could be viable, but she has to know there can be no expectations of a relationship coming from this. That would take a tremendous amount of work on her part, and I do not know if she is up for how rigorous it would be. I’m talking apologies to everyone she hurt, a round of STD tests, and she would have to go to counseling and agree to some serious trust litmus tests. If she agreed and followed through with all of that? I might consider it. Boundaries, you have to have them. And ENFORCE them. Rules to live by in general.
Her challenge won’t be with me accepting her as a part of my life. Her REAL challenge will be whether or not my son will accept her apologies. That’s the most important bit, because he is the most important thing in my life.
So yeah, that’s what’s going on with me. In a nutshell, Joe is doing fine and WW has made the first step towards tying up some loose ends from our failed marriage. Is this a path to recon? Who knows? I’m going to just treat this like any other circumstance and only allow it to occur if it aligns with my life goals. And my life goals are so different now that I’d be surprised if she could have a seat at my table.
But it was at least good for me to be able to accept her apology and get some closure there.
Everyone, keep up the good work and keep GALing! The first thing you have to save in a divorce is NOT the marriage. It’s your own life.
Glad to read what I´ve read. Good for you man. And it shows LBSs that there´s hope after the D. It´s about getting into amoafwl. Then it´s their turn to decide what to do. Sometimes it´s all a question of TIME.
Thank you for the update Joe.
My best wishes for you and your son.
Hey Joe!! Thanks for the update, it sounds like you are doing great! Completely agree with everything you said about your W and how you are dealing with her. Did you ever get D'd or are y'all still (legally) married? Keep it up brother!
I think it is important for all LBSs to know that the WAS/WS will always have regrets. Their revisionist history rewriting is a point and time thing. The truth will always be the truth. Just as your, Joe, WW now realizes, what she sacrificed for the pursuit of selfish pleasure was way better than she was willing to admit at the time.
Some will come back and apologize, some never will. But you can rest assured that they all have regrets except for in the most egregious of marriages.
Joe, it's really nice to hear your success story! I'm glad things are working out so well for you. I hope you son, and hers, are able to make the adjustment as well.
Hi Joe, it's great to see your update. I just saw it and I don't have time to write now but it'd be great if you could check back later. I have a few questions I'd like to ask!
Another Stander:
Yes, my D is final. All over and done. It's been almost a year now. Definitely one of the toughest years of my life. But at the same time, I have learned so much about life and myself.
Nicole:
Of course, ask away! I hope you're doing well! Did you ever end up moving?
Hi again, Joe,
It's great to hear that you've done well at work, have stayed healthy and fit, and had a girlfriend. Those all sound like positive developments! It's also admirable that you kept your son as your first priority. He's lucky to have a dad that puts his best interests first.
I wanted to ask you about the timing of your ex-wife's apology. Do you think her relationship ended with her boyfriend (or whatever you would call him) and that's why she finally woke up and realized what she did? Also when you and she discussed potentially being friends did she take any follow-up action after that? Have you heard from her since then? Has she tried to communicate with your son? It'd be interesting to hear more.
Regarding my situation, yes I packed up and moved 1,000 miles away with my daughter. I'm now working full-time and I have an active social life although more kid-friendly stuff, not really bars or nightlife type stuff. My husband became much nicer after I moved away although he hasn't directly tried to reconcile.
It'd be wonderful if you could keep us posted on how things evolve!