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Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up

Posted By: betheoa

Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/14/18 02:02 AM

Hello, I have read here around the year or more, before that I was follow other forums and other sites, and I am not sure where I am, what to do. Please help me to find optimum about my stich.
I will summarize my today situation, in next posts will share more about whole story.
- Together 18 years, Married 12
- S10, D8
- Sexless marriage, neglect kids\Wife from my side, thought life, always we agent’s other, nice guy syndrome (especially regarding sex), she was controlling one and manipulative.
- 6 years ago I become WH (I can share why\how and so on, if someone is interested). In 6 months went back to my sense, and realize that I was wrong, and I want to be better man/father.
- During my WH period my W suspect about maybe I am\have unfaithful
- 5 years ago, W put me in 1 mount hell to convince everything I have done\lay, if I do we will heal our R/M and will have better M. I believe her, and confess. I already was sorry about everything I have done. I was remorseful, I have answer every question I was full transparency.
- After my confession, W put me in blame/punish mode for 3 years (become WAW)
- 2 Years ago she falls in Love (limerance) to one OM1, It was like EA, but mostly one side, he maybe just flirt with her. Become WW
- One year ago she falls in Love (limerance) to one OM2, harder EA, OM2 flirt more hard, but I think there is not full blown EA. Still WW
Why I am here? I leave in hell already 5 years, I am half person (mentally, half of my brain is stuck about my stich), I am close to give up.
I need some advice what to do with OM2, she definitely in limerance for him (we are just friends), I believe her about OM1 (we are just friends) and she ended up with OM2. What to do now? Being doormat (I can do that)? She does not want to divorce (she told me, I am free to live if I do not want to be with her). If I can say this-she like this Cake eating very much.
I have read a lot from this forum, but as former WH she uses this card (my past faults) every time she can.
Please ask question, and I will answer, there is too many events\situation and I am not sure what is important to share and what is not.
Thanks in Advance
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/14/18 06:52 AM

Welcome to the board

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

Yes first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by MWD
http://www.mcssl.com/store/mwdtc2014/
http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm

and Michele's articles
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm

You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts
(for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support).
Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active,
and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come!
Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.


Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/14/18 07:24 AM

You have been reading for a year! Wow, I hope you will stick with this board.

Just to clarify, were you in any type of inappropriate relationship with another woman?

Yes, it sounds as if your W is very wayward. She's also been yanking you around by your b@lls for a long, long time. Don't you think it is time to change the dynamics in your MR?

I commend you for being honest about yourself. How long has the M been sexually started? Was that your reason for being a WAH? You being a WAH, previously, does not excuse her nor gives her a right to cheat on you. Neither did it give her a right to punish you all these years. You really must stop being a doormat. Do you feel you are suppose take her bad treatment of you?

Quote:
I need some advice what to do with OM2, she definitely in limerance for him (we are just friends), I believe her about OM1 (we are just friends) and she ended up with OM2.


First of all, they are not "friends", and she should not be friends or have private friendships with any man. She is playing you for a fool. A friendship that excludes her H is not acceptable.

Secondly, the OM is not the real problem. It's your WW that's the problem. If OM2 goes away, she'll find OM3. She wants a man who will not allow her to treat him like a doormat. Women are not attracted to doormats. They wipe their feet on doormats. Women want a man who is stronger than she is. If you are stronger, you are not showing it by your nice-guy ways.

So, when there is no sex at home, look at yourself. She is not attracted to you. You may be handsome, but it's not all about looks. It is what kind man you are, and how you treat her....and especially how you let her treat you. It's about standing up for yourself and not being afraid of her. She doesn't desire to have sex with you, b/c she has lost respect for you. Sorry to be so harsh.

Stop taking her cr@p treatment. Stop believing her b.s. It's time for you to start making changes in yourself. Stand on your values, principles, and believe system. Do not compromise your integrity.

I hope you post every chance you get. Do you work full time? Does she work full time?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/19/18 07:32 PM

Thanks very much for you respond,
sorry for my late respond, i have difficulty with my computer.
Cadet - thank you, i already read your post, several times.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/19/18 08:34 PM

Thanks Cadet and Sandy.
Cadet - i have read your homework, will reread .

Sandy i am so happy you are here, so so happy..

Quote:
Just to clarify, were you in any type of inappropriate relationship with another woman?
- Yes i have cheated on my wife 6 years ago (two times spend several days together sex PA, and 5 months EA via internet), she was from other country. Second one hour(one time) kissing/touching with another woman.

Quote:
Yes, it sounds as if your W is very wayward. She's also been yanking you around by your b@lls for a long, long time. Don't you think it is time to change the dynamics in your MR?
- Yes i want, i think i have done a little to change...i am not sure, how much is it.

Quote:
I commend you for being honest about yourself. How long has the M been sexually started? Was that your reason for being a WAH? You being a WAH, previously, does not excuse her nor gives her a right to cheat on you. Neither did it give her a right to punish you all these years. You really must stop being a doormat. Do you feel you are suppose take her bad treatment of you?
- One year after being together, the sex was ones a month or less. After the kids become even worst. I was obsessed about sex (with her), become addicted to porn. No i think i do not deserve this, i punish my self enough about what i have done, but really do not want live like this to the end...

[quote
First of all, they are not "friends", and she should not be friends or have private friendships with any man. She is playing you for a fool. A friendship that excludes her H is not acceptable. quote] I agree, with OM1 she include me, and we behave as good neighbors (i buy her "we are friend" - but i sow her limeranc to him). Ath the beginning of OM2 she try to talk about him with me and so on, but i show that i am not OK, then she involve her self even more (she told me that i push her).

Quote:

Secondly, the OM is not the real problem. It's your WW that's the problem. If OM2 goes away, she'll find OM3. She wants a man who will not allow her to treat him like a doormat. Women are not attracted to doormats. They wipe their feet on doormats. Women want a man who is stronger than she is. If you are stronger, you are not showing it by your nice-guy ways.
- Agree. I do not behave as Nice Guy any more (i want- but not do it).

Quote:
So, when there is no sex at home, look at yourself. She is not attracted to you. You may be handsome, but it's not all about looks. It is what kind man you are, and how you treat her....and especially how you let her treat you. It's about standing up for yourself and not being afraid of her. She doesn't desire to have sex with you, b/c she has lost respect for you. Sorry to be so harsh.

Stop taking her cr@p treatment. Stop believing her b.s. It's time for you to start making changes in yourself. Stand on your values, principles, and believe system. Do not compromise your integrity.

I hope you post every chance you get. Do you work full time? Does she work full time?


Sandy, i wish you to be so wrong, but i know you are so write smile.
So what i have done so far:
3 years free from porn.
6 months ago, i have stop call her, with no reason. If she ask me to call her when ... i do, but not call at all to check her.
Not ask nothing, if she talk about her day OK, but i have no ask.
This is may be wrong but i Snoop, in this way i handle her bite ( to be sure, do not bring my hope Up) - for now on i handle what i know pretty well. I do not confront about anything have know by snoop.
There is no more disrespect in front of the kids. If she try even a little, i shut her write there.
2 months ago, we have discussion (last one) she suck me in, so in very calm meaner i told her that i will not live like this, not open marriage and so on....
Since beginning of the year, if i sow her to write to OM2 by FB, i distance her mediately (not pity game), just not pay attention to her, be polite....but not interested.
On the third time, i leave the house, just say i am going out, and that is...she call me i did not answer. Go Back one hour later. She ask why i behave like this, and i say she know what she is doing.

Sandy what to de next time when she FB with OM2 in front of me?
What to do if she go to coffee OM2 and ask me/inform me before that, or after that.

She is hairdresser, and OM2 is her client, if they do not meat in between, he cut the hair every 2 weeks. From 2 months the do not meet elsewhere. than the salon. Sometimes he pass a way for coffee.
She pursuit him very hard, he is not so much interested. If she distance her, he try to engage her, by some Harts or kisses by FB.

She do not use any passwords, and live her computer with open FB at home.

Soon will write more.
To day after 3 days silence she contact him, to wish success in exam, he will meet for coffee in the saloon, if he is ok with his schedule.

Today i live my home at the 1AM, went to work, there was emergency and i am responsible. she call me at the night to ask where i am.
If i behave mysterious she behave nervous.
If we are in company of other women, and she behave protective of me, especially the other woman is friendly/flirty.

Will write soon...

Thank you.
This forum safe a lot of my self, you Sandy gave me a different look, that i follow as close as possible, and this change the dynamic a little.
thanks
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/19/18 09:33 PM

So, i am still at work,(came here at the night)
My WW, is at work, there is possibility OM2 to pass by for fast coffee.
She call me 2 times, i did not answer,she FB message me, ask how am i, an hour later i call her ant told that every thing is under control (but i do not know when will come home (the kids are alone, at home.
She told me that she do not want to be at work now, and she wont to be at home to take rest. she told me that my horoscope are telling that my day will be very successful, she is very friendly ....
So if i was not snoop, i will take this as hope, now i see this as, just checking me, but how/why? Any ideas.

Just ti clarify (regarding all i know about)
1. There is not PA (no kisses, hugs, touches ...)
2. There is no ILU, hearts and kisses and emoticons by FB, but not words about, in FB or in present meet.
3. She mach all points for person in Limerance
4. She play manipulative games to him. (Gilt trip, distancing, and so on.
5. Some times she do not seek contact for several days, but in the end she gave up, if she have excuse to contact him she use it write away.
6. She talk to her girl collogues, about OM2, like how different is he. And how i am pissed of when she contact him.
7.She lay in from of others and OM2. She twist the truth or lay, to show her in light of cool woman, intendant, desired and so on.
Posted By: Cadet

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/20/18 01:04 AM

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/20/18 04:06 AM

Please urgent.
Om2 after be on her work place for hair cut,FB her about go for lunch/diner. For now I do not suppose to know. How to act;
1. By just keep kids own for invitation
2. If she agree and wait for free time - hide from me
3. If she let me know before meet
4. If she let me know after meet

What to do ....how to set boundaries
Should I shut my mouth. And play cool.


Please some one calm me.
Should I contact him - hi is 12 years younger
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/20/18 07:46 AM

I think you need to stay calm and play it cool. If you have the kids, find somewhere to go or something fun to do with them.

Your W is wayward and showing much disrespect for you as her H. You feel she can hold your past mistakes against you. You cannot allow your past mistakes to be her free ticket to cheat with OM. In other words, you repented of your affair.......and she is not excused to pay you back by having her own affairs. She uses your past indesgretion as leverage. I hope you can see that she is not excused. Don't let her play games with your head by making you feel guilt. That is the past. Today she is the one who has wayward behavior.

Do not act as if you are a victim. Don't act as if you are being punished. Hold your head up and walk tall. You are a man, not her little boy. You must respect yourself before she will respect you.

Until her respect for you is restored, I don't think she will get better. She may be nice some days, but don't let it fool you. Niceness does not mean anything has changed under the surface.

You can start by not allowing her to speak to you disrespectfully. She doesn't get to talk down to you, yell, curse, belittle, blame, etc. Don't allow her to show disrespect in front of your children. She doesn't get to boss you. You should not cater to her and treat her as if she royalty. If she speaks with sarcasm, address it at that moment. Don't try to pay her back at a later time, b/c that is passive-aggressive behavior. It never resolves the issues.

She likes to eat cake, but you don't have to serve it. Know what I mean? You are not helpless. Learn to say, "no" to her face. Don't be afraid of her. Stop apologizing for the past.

I think this may be a very long road ahead. Be sure to read the threads about wayward wives.
Posted By: NicoleR

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/20/18 03:04 PM

Betheoa, you and your wife sound a bit like my husband and I. My husband was the nice one and I'm the controlling one. He had an affair and I did not, but I've made him pay for his affair by making him suffer for years. Now he wants to leave.

You know it's only after my husband says he's divorcing me that I realized how I punished my husband and made his life miserable because of his affair. Now I'd do anything in the world to apologize for that. He tried to tell me many times just to please be a nice woman and I wasn't. I was mean and ignored him and turned my cheek away when he tried to kiss me. I'm so sorry now I can't even believe I did those things to the man I love. He's done some very bad things but I can see clearly now how punishing someone endlessly can never fix a marriage.

I say all of that because your wife may not realize what she's doing either. You can tell her you want a separation and wait to see if she comes to the same realization that I did. If you're lucky, she'll see her own actins before it's too late and come to you begging for an apology. Then if you can start over you'll both work together on making changes to honor each other and make each other the priority.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/21/18 02:29 AM

Sandy please for fast respond

Quote:
I think you need to stay calm and play it cool. If you have the kids, find somewhere to go or something fun to do with them.
About the kids is already done. Being cool - from your point of view, how it si look like?

Quote:
You can start by not allowing her to speak to you disrespectfully. She doesn't get to talk down to you, yell, curse, belittle, blame, etc. Don't allow her to show disrespect in front of your children. She doesn't get to boss you. You should not cater to her and treat her as if she royalty. If she speaks with sarcasm, address it at that moment. Don't try to pay her back at a later time, b/c that is passive-aggressive behavior. It never resolves the issues.
- last 6 months (sarcasm), i live with smile or/and just ignore. I stopped pay her back 5 years ago, when decide to be real man.

Quote:
She likes to eat cake, but you don't have to serve it. Know what I mean? You are not helpless. Learn to say, "no" to her face. Don't be afraid of her. Stop apologizing for the past.
. 6 months ago i have started to follow your rules. The result, is that she is more nice, and not show so much disrespect except OM2, Sh**t talk me to her friends and so on.
Now i have this situation, and i hope you are going to answer me fast before, i done something in wrong direction.
Since the beginning of the year, i show that i am not agree to be text with OM2 in front of me, first i switch of my attention from her, then i switch from her even more, next i leave the house (for walk), and today i leave again. She cal me to ask why i leave is there a real reason (when leaving i told to kids i have work to do), i answer her that she know why i leave (text OM2). She tel me with soft voice (why i did not talk to her, about it - i said that she know very well, but i will come back to talk. When i back, i said to her that i am tired to live lake this, i will not accept to live like past 2 years (OM1 Om2). She respond she is not doing nothing wrong, that i have seen this thing in wrong perspective (relation whit OM1 OM2). I answer that is not something i will put on. She accuse to control her. I ask will you stop this (she ask for clarification, so i answer it is not only OM2 - current issue, but all. I told her that i buy her "just friends" with OM1, and then come OM2, when it is finish with OM2 will be 3,4..She got little angry (before that was little scared ). She said that there is nothing (OM2), and she always was and will be with me (support me), and she will support my decisions (to leave if i do not want live like this). She said that will be tough for the kids. I said, that i am tired from all of this - her treatment of me (last 5 years, no affection, not proper attention, disrespect OM1 and OM2). I have ask, are you going to stop this, point OM2 - she accused me that i force her to do something (by the kids), I said OK, and walk out, she start telling me selfish (controlling)... i turn to her and said - if you are proper woman, you will stop this right here. (in my language the sentence was not rude ). She Respond to accept her like not proper woman - then i leave.

She call me to speak by the phone. The conversation was, that what i am going to do, when/where will live (all the same thing). I said to her that i want to close the phon that i need to think how to proceed with my life, she insist to talk more. We continuous to speak the same thing as before, and the i said there is nothing more we can said. Close the phone


Later on FB she write that she put up, being with me 5 years (after she know about my infidelity, and other blame me things), the write in threatening way that she thank me that i gave her freedom and say that i gave it to her 5 years ago. I did not answer

She call me to ask where i am (i answer) and if i going back home today - i answer will see later.

My question is what to do, should i stay out of home for day or two or week, should i go home and start to not give her any affection or attention, should i separate from her?

place Sandy answer ASAP - in the past i give up for the kids, and the situation did not change (maybe for week she pursuit OM2, less), but that its.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/21/18 04:05 AM

Dear NicoleR, thank you, i have tough that only my W will punish with years, but stay together (leave under same roof, but not more than parents)

I know how your husband feels now. If you wont we can discuss about it.

So yes at firs (6 months after her D-day)- she suffer, i was trying to do every thing (from the books. She was saying, if other woman was with me will like who i am.
after this 6 months - she start asking me to leave, to divorcee and so on, that about for 2 years. I was convincing her to stay together for the kids. I was so nice, just hoover her. Then i went in apathy, she occasionally telling me that she is lonely, but never accept my attention, affection or what ever i try to give her.
Then she start to work, after 7 years SAHM, i hardly support her to find something that she will like to do. So she start to be among people,take attention from other people (men). Then OM1, nothing more then talks, coffees text...,but she was in limerance. I confront her several timce, but in the end we are like good neighbors (from beginning of this year, i hardly show in very civil way - that i am not OK to be around him - to her). With him i am just civil. Then OM1 withdrew, because of her GF, so i have seen, how my WW looks like when ending limerance.

Then come OM2, it is like taken from the book, friend, talks, texts..., This time i confront harder, and she went to him more than OM1. This is from around a year. Many times in our discussion, i was redy to leave, but in the end she convince me to stay because of the kids (or i make excuse to my self to stay).
To day i left, because she openly FB OM2. She call to kom back and talk, she told me that i am controlling, i want to cut contact with OM2, and behave as my wife. She told me to do what i want, and she will support me (do not make problems) im very soft voice, when i do not backed off - from what i want she start to blame game, bring my pasts mistakes, telling me that she is what i have made from her, that she is not at my level (sarcastic), and go to find woman at my level.

So now, i am staying at my work, and think what to do, if i go to my home how to behave.
I think that she will start to be even more WW just to show me....i am tired. If i divorce her, i will loos my kids time , but rationally i will not loose nothing more. We do not kiss, hugs, sex, love talks, or even conversions. She is not interested about me, she is bored from my day life, when there is something like dram in my work she is interested just to but me down, of course if some woman is involved in any way around me she is very interested. I listen to her all the time, and validate. I have stop controlling (verbal, gilt trip, lecturing and all this before more than 2 years).
Of course i love her, and i want to build ne R with her, and avoid all my mistakes, but...i relay do not feel, that this will be healthy for me if this continuous.

If we separate, she cannot handle this life standard, her payment will cover only food, but nothing more.

Please write more, how to switch the diamine. Separation/divorce - this will shake hardly the kids, and all people around (family and other people think about us as great family)
Should y stay out the night, or go to home and how to behave?
thanks
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/21/18 05:16 AM

Sandy
Quote:
Be sure to read the threads about wayward wives.

Your posts open very hard my eyes, and i was kicked out of my LBS fog...
Thanks you are here
Posted By: NicoleR

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/21/18 05:54 AM

Betheoa, I'd love to hear your perspective more about how it feels to be in your position, although in your case it sounds like you gave your wife more than enough chances. My husband did the same for me, but now he's gone. I'd do anything for both of us to want to fix our problems and try again. He did bad things too as you can see on my thread and I have to leave him alone and detach but I still love him and don't want a divorce.

Friend I believe if you don't want a divorce you need to find a way to communicate with your wife in a way that draws her toward you and not away. And when positive communication can be established then there must be a way to say that you can't accept her abusive treatment and this is a deal breaker for you. Then of course she needs to break off her affair. The affair probably won't last forever so if I were you I'd focus more on the direct interactions between you and your wife. Also there might be a way to separate just temporarily in a way that makes your wife "wake up" before going straight to divorce, but I'm not sure what the DB book says about that.

You need to think for yourself how to apply the rules and guidelines from DB in your situation. I'll try to think more too and will write in the next day or two with additional thoughts.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/22/18 03:37 AM

So, i am feeling tired,
Yesterday - after i left the house went to work, stay there do som things, WW call me to ask where i am (said to work) she asks will i come to sleep home or not, answer will decide later..

After my lieveng, she did not FB OM2.

I did not answer, to her FB messages (most gild trip, and to find better woman, if i think she is not enough good for me - AKA when i said that she have, behavior that i will not tolerate (her limerance to OM1 and OM2).
When i went home, she was sleep (make her to look like she is sleeping). i go to MBR, she asks if i lock the dor, i answer Yes. After my lieveng

In the morning we weak up the same time, i when to make me coffee, the put on the mashie her cup, and make coffee. (i thought, if i should do, but i did it). we did not talk, just few word about the wether, then i live 30 minutes earlier. There was so much snow, normally in winter i start her car to be warm when she and kids leave. I clean her car from snow too. I did not wait appropriation from her, i an doing for the kids as well.

To day we are not contact (tat is norm, from more than 1.5 year) i just stop call her for nor reason, she call me from time to time, especially she is worried about me (how i am doing, where i am ....insecurity of her part).

In the afternoon she FB OM2, whit intention about meeting for lunch/dinner, he ask her to go to eat when she is free, 3 days ago, and she not openly agree then, but now she just hook him about it.

So now for today, it was as a plan to go together WW, Me S10 and D8 to do martial art, normally we go separate WW and kids and me in different days (because of work schedule) and then doit together on Saturday. last week we doit together all week, because i do my best to leave work earlier. So for today it supposed to doit again (be all of Us), but i depside to not go with them. I am a little sad that she contact OM2 so early, just next day...but

So i am thinking should i go with them to do sport when it is possible, or tray to make missing time (if she miss me a all).

From this point that i said to her, that i will not tolerate her EM (her friend sheep - as she clarify) or her way of life (being friendly in special way - as she clarify), what to do when my boundaries are crossed ????

Should i do something about what she is doing - if i suppose to do not know - aka keep boundaries?
And what if she continuous FB, or meat OM2 freely and let me know???

Before 6 months after big fight, as she hid from me meting the OM2, before next meet she call me and said if i come home on time because she will go on diner (make to know with OM2), i answer only I understand, then close the phone (that was advice how to approche the situation from another forum (i ask about exact situation, because i predict it will happened).
So the result from this, was nothing more than cake eating, i behave as this not bordering me for some more months, was friendly not needy and so on. Only think was that she was thinking that i believe that her situation with OM2 was out of control, as well as she occasionally discus wit her GF, why i did not behave sad/angry and so on - regarding OM2 as i was doing before - she suspect me - that i contact OM2 and ask him about leave in peace my WW (because he was little distant or something like that, she side that she will try to manipulate Me and OM2 to convince we were agreed something, she said If we were agreed something - she will clarify our R (aka how/what i can and can not do about her), and will cut any contacts with OM2 (i do not know why).

So base from my old experience, if i be very cool and nice and civil, she will be very happy to be with me, she will not worry about me and tings other OM2, but that will not bring me nowhere. Why, because after my behavior like this during OM1, after OM1, told her he should cut him off because of his GF, my wife ended with OM2 3 months later (the furs one show her some attention/affection).

So here i am. I will wait till right time to go home, after the WW and the kids. If she ask why i did not come to sport with them i will answer, had to do something at work. Will be civil.
Should i behave distant?
How to behave, when i told her that will not tolerate EA/OM2 or such a friendship and she have said to do what i have decide (she do not want me to leave) but will supporter , and she will not tolerate to control her life - keep OM2.

Thanks, to every one be with me .
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/22/18 12:09 PM

Listen, your wife is playing with you. She lies and says OM is just a friend. You are her husband! If you don't like her having a friendship with other men, then she should respect you. Does she want friendships with other men.....or does she want a marriage with you?

You are giving her both, the marriage and friends with other men. She calls and talks and disrespects you on FB...... and she tells you to come home and talk more! That is rediculous. No offense, but she is yanking you around and it won't stop as long as you are confused as a man. You are confused by how to act like a man or like a husband. Both should be to act like a man!

You are not taking charge by asking her what she wants and what is she going to do. Tell her you will no longer stay in a marriage that has other men. She can be friends with people you are friends with also. No private friendships with men. No texting other men. You don't text other women. That is how marriage is suppose to be. One man and one woman. Stop asking her how it will be.

You try to win her love and devotion by doing special things for her. But it is not working. As long as she can talk and talk to you.......and you go running back home to her......you do not have respect.

It is time to stand up like a man and tell her, "No more".

You are not controlling. She says those words to contol you! Can you see? She manipulates you. She treats you very, very badly because she has no respect for you as a man. She uses your past mistakes to control you. Do you see? She knows you feel sorry for the past, but she is mean and uses it to punish and as her excuse to cheat on you. She will not change unless she believes she is losing her husband.

Stop talking and saying the same things. It doesn't work. If you leave and stay away from her, she may get her eyes opened. Don't threaten to do it. Just leave her. I am not telling you to divorce her. Just leave her and don't talk to her and let her pull you back. If she really wants to be a good and devoted wife, she knows what she should do. Don't listen to her words. Watch her actions. If her actions are not those of a loving wife, then don't stay in the marriage.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/23/18 02:52 AM

Sandy, thank you very much...i felt supported.
I have doubt about am i overreact about her behavior, am i not understand correctly and so on and so on...and finally am i deserve My Wife to be my wife and not allow some other men flirt with her and she flirt with them...i really was accept all of her behavior, because i have made so big ans so many mistakes in the past. Thank you that support me to have right to be forgiven, and to have right to ask my WW to stop behaving, as she is.

So about yesterday:
My wife talk about our last fight with her GF:
She said to her that, the things was not going i right direction with me. And told her how i was going out when she had answered to OM2, then she told her, how offended is she from my reaction (about i will not tolerate her behavior), the FG said that my behavior is out of sense. The GF said that if Im so much jealous or i need to made a reason to leave the home (aka to do something with OM), my W told that she was thinking the same, and comment way it is needed to be so much rood to her if i want to go out, just go out.
Then she show to her GF, the FB messages she send to me (how i can judge her after what i have done to her, that is not easy to live with me 5 years after my infidelity, how dear i can judg her, and so on, i was not answer the FB messages, and My W told her that later i call her to say she is free (that was not true), the she said that she is done. Her GF told her to leave me to see, what i will do without her, then my wife answer he that other GF of her told her "i can believe, how you survive this life, she was on work all day and take care of the kids and everything - and take this ....my bed behavior" (i think there is not such a GF, she just play pity game..)
Later with other colleagues of her and this GF, she commented that the evening they will go to sport, and she do not wont to allow me to join them, because she is angry at me (said in joking way), the she said she is 99.9% sure i will went, because in the morning i was taken my sport clothes, but i did not.
I went home after my W, we did not talk at all, like silent treatment. Just civil, i was so much different, did not ask nothing. When i come home she start FB and try to hide a little bit the screen (she was FB to our sport trainer). but her intention was to look like something different (FB OM2).

So in the morning was the same, i did not do coffee to her.
Then before i went to wokr, she start to talk to me about the sport scheduler for next month, and she was FB our trainer at the evening, i said OK, and said buy, she was looking like different (eye contact and imprecation ) - (she was look like this when she is interested in something about me - or when she play game - be good W).

I start her car, in the morning(i am doing this for my kids).
and that was.
Thank you being here.
How should behave from now on....should i find place to stay for some days - that will affect drastically our budget

Thanks
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/23/18 03:35 AM

Do you see how she brings other people into your private business (the marriage problems)? Her GF may have strong influence on your W. Using FB to attack you is wrong. Making remarks about you to colleagues is inappropriate. You do not have to accept her treatment.

I don't know if you have read about the nice guy syndrome. I hope you will look on line at the free information given.

Also, please read about Alpha males and Beta males. I am going to copy and paste a post I wrote to another board member yesterday. I think you have lived in a bad relationship for a long time, and you believe you don't deserve any more than the few crumbs of niceness your W throws at you. She uses the past to keep you in a position of a whipped puppy. It is time for you to stop being the whipped puppy. If she cannot forgive you, then that is her problem. You will no longer be punished. Five years is enough!

If you cannot physically separate from your W, then we can design a plan of action to use while staying in the home. Is that what you would like to do? It will require a lot of changed behavior from you, and probably not the behavior you had in mind.

In my opinion, when the WW has brought another man into the M, the H should not act as if he is waiting for her to make up her mind about the OM. He should not ask his WW about her feelings for himself or OM. Apparently, your W enjoys making you jealous. She texts OM or reads his messages in front of you so she can deliberately make you jealous. It is her way to pay back the jealousy she felt over your A. But it has to stop, and we will talk about what you need to do.

You said you had read some of my posts. I don't know if you have read my threads that explain WW's. I have several and I will give you the links.


Series Links

Links to this series of threads

First thread(this thread)
For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554&page=1

Second thread
For the Newcomer LBH who has a wayward wife Part 2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2548490#Post2548490

Third thread
For the LBH who has a WW Part 3
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551039#Post2551039

4th thread
Guide for LBH who has a Wayward Wife
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2551811#Post2551811

5th thread
Help for LBH who has a WW (new thread)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2593214#Post2593214

6th thread
Sandi's reflections
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653323#Post2653323
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/23/18 06:40 AM

Sandy I will be very sort now....write by phone

1.yes I have read a lot of you post. When reading a am amazed and afraid. Become I have seen my situation and what should I have to do.
2. I have read no more mister......nice. and in the. Past spend a lot of time read about redpill alfa beta male. yes I know that I have been nice guy and Beta male
3. I will need help about plan to start change in home. Separation will Collapsed my finance. After 6 months will be better if hope.

I already red your posts....will reread.


Thank you . I need to be accountable to some one in my journey. There is not anyone who know enough to lead my. My old soul ...nice guy and gilt, put me to sleep away when my WWE become nicer.
So thanks again Sandy ....I am enthusiast ed about ....ME
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/23/18 10:28 PM

So Sandy, i will continuous and add more:
Quote:
Using FB to attack you is wrong.
It was privet messages. in the past last 2 years, from time to time, she make fun of me in FB (she asks before wrote it- if i am OK)- and i say OK - at this time i did not see any wrong, i can handle it, now i know this is sort of disrespect, so i cut of at the beginning of the year ago - when i add something on my FB wall, and she red it, and said she want to write (something like - easy easy) - so i respond to her "better not to do - in firm way"

Quote:
Making remarks about you to colleagues is inappropriate.
Off course it is not write - i am not suppose to know about that. She is often lie (or twist the truth) to bring her in light of confident woman, wise and independent. How i can not accept this behavior if i am not suppose to know?
Quote:
I don't know if you have read about the nice guy syndrome. I hope you will look on line at the free information given.
. if you think that i am nice gut now, i could not imagine what you will say, about me in the past smile

Quote:
If you cannot physically separate from your W, then we can design a plan of action to use while staying in the home. Is that what you would like to do? It will require a lot of changed behavior from you, and probably not the behavior you had in mind.
I will be happy, if some one support me, to be honest i am scared, but what i can do more by my self.....

Quote:
You said you had read some of my posts. I don't know if you have read my threads that explain WW's. I have several and I will give you the links.
I am reading now

So about yesterday...my wife went to sport with the kids. I went to sport an hour later, i sow that they are there (this day is not common to them to do sport. When i go there, i went strait to the change room (did not look around to see where are they. I go home a little later then normal 30 min later (i have read/write to the forum).

When i go home, say just Hi (she respond HI), then start to do something to eat. W went to bed. hour later i went to bed too. Did not speak a all.

In the morning today, i make coffee only for me, later she start talk to me about sport related, i respond very short an civil. later i told her about my Grand Father about being in hospital (just to inform her) she look like polite. Later i found out that today OM2 will go to haircut at her. I took this for me. When i leaving, she ask polite to call her about me grant father..said OK.

later she call me, i did not answer, call her 30 min later, she ask what is UP. I said i am dеаling with chaos (she asks what happen), i ask nothing (she asks you don want to tell me ?) i said everything is under control, just a lot of tasks to do *she said you will do it) respond off course i will, then i told her about my grand Father what i know (she propose to visit him later) i said will see later. (she ask to call her if here is more information about him) respond OK . Than said buy..

So there is my question:
1. Should I do sport with her and the kids or do it alone
2. Should i go hole late...
3. What to do if she ask if i will leave the house/when and/or what i think to do from now on
4. What to do if she FB OM2 in front of me
5. What to do if she ask/inform me that she are going to dinner/lunch with OM2
6. What to do if i know she is going to lunch/dinner
7. What to say if she start talking about future thing events (aka we will together in future)
8. What if she start talking about how she fills (tired/nervous ans so on ) up to now i try to validate or listen, not going to fix nothing. From the past i know if i ask what i can do for you to be better, her respond was i want peace (aka not bother her about her behavior) she is very glad when she doing this (punch me).

So for today i do not have action plan, but will keep to be civil and calm.
If Sandy respond of my question i will be more prepared for the evening.
What i am sure she start to try temperature check, softened and so on. That is normal when i keep pulled back after tough discussion or/and fight.With the time last 2 years i have become more confident in my wright to ask behavior/ things from her.

Off course i want to go back to my comfort zone : aka be polite to each other, she hide when contact OM2 (aka not show obvious disrespect, give to me some grumps of affection and attention to me, and allow me to do for her many things she need. smile
i hope to not go there this time. I do not want to be plan B. Now i AM, if OM2 bull back (some how, not FB, or in a mood), she become more open to me, off course depressed but more present (mental), when OM2 is more attend to her she is more happy, but mental not here. WW and OM2 play pursues/distant game, look from outside it is ridiculous. last 2 years when observing my WW and OM1 and OM2 interaction, i have lost a lot of respect to my W, but the love is still there (i am not talking about this what i feel when i am jealous/rejected/needy and so on), no i am talking about this solid feeling to some one, when you wish all best to this person, and forgive what they done write there (not forget but forgive). Yes i am a person like this (is it normal to be like this?) Am i so codependent to her?.

will write at the evening if i need to vent.
Thank you being there, glad to be here.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/24/18 01:53 AM

Quote:
Off course i want to go back to my comfort zone : aka be polite to each other, she hide when contact OM2 (aka not show obvious disrespect, give to me some grumps of affection and attention to me, and allow me to do for


I doubt you will be able to go back to your comfort zone for a long time. The condition of your MR did not happen over night, and it won't be fixed over night. Instead of you needing to know what to do and say every evening before going home, you have to begin thinking like the man you read about on the red pill.

I want you to understand clearly that as long as she is making fun of you on FB or to others........or showing you disrespect in any form, there will be no more playing nice and licking up table crumbs from her affection. Do you get why? Alpha men don't play that game. They don't beg for crumbs.

Stop sending her messages on FB. Don't text her throughout the day. She is completely addicted to her phone, and you do not need to act as if you don't know of any other way to communicate. When you have something to discuss, tell her to her face. Don't hide behind a text, if you have something important to say to her.

You should have personal boundaries set in place, and if she dishonors those boundaries, then you should be prepared to enforce it by leaving her with the consequences. If she disrespects you, she should have consequences. If you don't know what to do about it........then you are already sunk before you start. Begin by having the right attitude. Reading on line about how the Alpha H deals with a disrespectful W, will help to mentally prepare you with the attitude of strength and male dominance.

I understand financial stress, but if you are going to have an effective plan of action to live with her under the same roof.........you first must lose your fear of losing her. And, if anyone leaves, it should be the cheater. However, some WW's are so bad and so stubborn, they won't leave. They prefer to put the family through hell, rather than being respectful.

She is texting OM in front of you? What do you think a dominant male would do? How would he get the message to her that she will not disrespect him by texting OM? Let me give you a hint about what you don't do. You don't say things like, "Please don't contact OM in front of me, b/c it really offends me". Heck no! That is something a woman says.......but not a Alpha man.

She can have a friendship with OM, or a M with you, but she cannot have both. Anytime a woman chooses a friendship over her own H.......I promise you it is an affair of some type. What woman in her right mind would choose just a casual friend over keeping her H? It is absurd. However, she may have to be convinced she is really losing her H, and everything she benefits from the MR..........before she comes to her right senses about OM. Are you prepared to go the distance?

Quote:
1. Should I do sport with her and the kids or do it alone


I was confused about the whole sport's thing. Is your son playing in this sport, or are you and W and son going to watch someone else play a sport? Is the OM your son's coach?

Quote:
2. Should i go hole late...


Late from what? Work? GAL? I don't understand what you mean.

Quote:
3. What to do if she ask if i will leave the house/when and/or what i think to do from now on


Are you referring to you going out to Get a Life? If so, you give vague answers without giving her details.

Quote:
4. What to do if she FB OM2 in front of me


Tell her one time that you will not live in an open M. Tell her one time she is being disrespectful to you and the M when she has private friendships with other men. It is not appropriate. You will not be disrespected by her texting/reading messaging and giving any type of attention to OM.

Then, the very next time she ignores you and texts or reads his messages........you will need to do some type of action that shows her (but, with no acts of violence) the consequences for disrespecting you. Can you do that? If not, then there is no reason to ever open your mouth, b/c she already has you whipped like a dog.

Am I saying you need to be ready to physically separate? Yes, I am. Otherwise, you will live in an open M and be disrespected. It's your decision. Sure, you can try smashing her phone, and things of that nature.......but I doubt it will have much affect on her behavior. Telling her to get her things and find some other place to stay......may be more effective. You won't financially support her, either. If she doesn't want to act like a M woman, then she should not benefit from the M. Make sense?

Quote:
5. What to do if she ask/inform me that she are going to dinner/lunch with OM2


Tell her you don't want the woman she has become, and tell her to get her things and leave.

Quote:
6. What to do if i know she is going to lunch/dinner


Same thing.

Quote:
7. What to say if she start talking about future thing events (aka we will together in future)


Say nothing. Believe nothing she says about the future.

Quote:
8. What if she start talking about how she fills (tired/nervous ans so on ) up to now i try to validate or listen, not going to fix nothing. From the past i know if i ask what i can do for you to be better, her respond was i want peace (aka not bother her about her behavior) she is very glad when she doing this (punch me).


Do you understand those same signs indicate her conniving, lying, and deceitful ways? She says she wants peace, but she really only wants you out of the way. So......don't validate this, or ask her if she wants to talk about it........and for God's sake don't ask what you can do to make her feel better. It is not your job to make a cheater feel better.

What do you mean she is very glad to punch you? Why are you asking so many questions about what to say or how to respond to a woman who enjoys hurting you? This tells me you have been much too weak in showing that you will not allow her to treat you so badly. People will not respect you if you let them bully you. This is especially true in marriage. Start showing her you are a strong man who will no longer put up with her. Once you really decide you have had enough of her disrespectful treatment........you won't have to ask anyone what you should do.

Do you know why you are asking now? You are really wanting someone to tell you how you can remain a Beta male, keep your nice guy syndrome.......and still get your WW to love and respect you.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/24/18 04:15 AM

Thanks Sandy. You were harsh and I appreciate that.
About the comfort zone.....I try to be sarcastic with me. No I will not go there any more...I expect from me more as man.

I do not text, call or anything else to her. I do not explained my self other than face to face. This is from more than 6 months. When she is harsh by phone I leave the call.

About attitude in hose. ..message revived.

Will continuous later
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 01/24/18 11:08 PM

Sandy, i will continuation to answer and comment your post. (i will try to write as clear as possible, my English obviously is not enough, to explain my self understandable)

Quote:
She can have a friendship with OM, or a M with you, but she cannot have both. Anytime a woman chooses a friendship over her own H.......I promise you it is an affair of some type. What woman in her right mind would choose just a casual friend over keeping her H? It is absurd. However, she may have to be convinced she is really losing her H, and everything she benefits from the MR..........before she comes to her right senses about OM. Are you prepared to go the distance?
Yes Sandy i am prepared, i want to change the life i have. The status quo smack me (mentally)
Quote:
I was confused about the whole sport's thing. Is your son playing in this sport, or are you and W and son going to watch someone else play a sport? Is the OM your son's coach?
2 months ago, my wife start martial art (in my opinion to impress OM2), with the kids, i join my self as well. My question is should i go with them when it is possible or, try to avoid be together (and miss to be with the kids). OM2 is not involved in this sport activities.

Quote:
Late from what? Work? GAL? I don't understand what you mean.
Normally i my schedule is pretty constant (predictable), after work i use this time to read/write on the forum, so i go home late then normal. My W notice, and ask occasionally. So my question was: Should i use every opportunity, to be not at home? About GAL my except my sport activates martial art (3 to 5 times a week), i do not have more GAL. Leave home 6.30Am - come Home in bast case 5.30 PM. My W, take kids to/from school, weekends i look after kids, if/when my wife is on work.

Quote:
Are you referring to you going out to Get a Life? If so, you give vague answers without giving her details.
this i have understand. My point was, If/when My W start R/M talks, and ask when i will leave and stay at other place (aka separate), or what i am thinking about how we will leave from now on. In the past, after thought conversation (days/week later), and she is calm down, she start asking this, that because i do not discus what i am thinking and what i will do.

Quote:
Tell her one time that you will not live in an open M. Tell her one time she is being disrespectful to you and the M when she has private friendships with other men. It is not appropriate. You will not be disrespected by her texting/reading messaging and giving any type of attention to OM.
I already told this, when wrote here for first time. So i think there is not reason to do it again (in the past i have said this many times). So this have to stop, saying something and doing nothing.

Quote:
Then, the very next time she ignores you and texts or reads his messages........you will need to do some type of action that shows her (but, with no acts of violence) the consequences for disrespecting you. Can you do that? If not, then there is no reason to ever open your mouth, b/c she already has you whipped like a dog.
Unfortunately, i do not have any other option to make consequences, than leave the house for logger time. Other option is to silent treatment her?...Now i respond to her very short and civil, do not pay any affection and/or attention, no cals, no text, not nothing. Just bills, grocery and kids related things.
Quote:
Am I saying you need to be ready to physically separate? Yes, I am. Otherwise, you will live in an open M and be disrespected. It's your decision. Sure, you can try smashing her phone, and things of that nature.......but I doubt it will have much affect on her behavior. Telling her to get her things and find some other place to stay......may be more effective. You won't financially support her, either. If she doesn't want to act like a M woman, then she should not benefit from the M. Make sense?
She stated that she will not leave without the kids, so true her out is not the option. Other way is I am leaving. So any suggestion if/when i do this, what to say to the kids?? They will ask. I can lay them that i will have work for week or months. This is really bothering me.

Quote:

Tell her you don't want the woman she has become, and tell her to get her things and leave.
In my case, i am leaving.
Quote:
Do you understand those same signs indicate her conniving, lying, and deceitful ways? She says she wants peace, but she really only wants you out of the way. So......don't validate this, or ask her if she wants to talk about it........and for God's sake don't ask what you can do to make her feel better. It is not your job to make a cheater feel better.
Sandy - This was in the past. How i am just listen (not like poppy), or leave.

Quote:
What do you mean she is very glad to punch you? Why are you asking so many questions about what to say or how to respond to a woman who enjoys hurting you? This tells me you have been much too weak in showing that you will not allow her to treat you so badly. People will not respect you if you let them bully you. This is especially true in marriage. Start showing her you are a strong man who will no longer put up with her. Once you really decide you have had enough of her disrespectful treatment........you won't have to ask anyone what you should do.
I am asking Sandy, because i want to know exact your opinion. Your approach is far stronger than other advice here and there. And because your are first one who told me that i deserve to have good life with my wife, after what i have done. I am starting to go out of my gilt fog (former cheater) - thanks to that.

Quote:
Do you know why you are asking now? You are really wanting someone to tell you how you can remain a Beta male, keep your nice guy syndrome.......and still get your WW to love and respect you.
Not relay Sandy, i have been told this many times...and i ended up here waiting you respond to my question, because i have tried in last 5 years almost every thing, except to man up and say No More, i want from now on faithful wife and all other thing that are related in good marriage and i am wiling to give the same.

Sandy, you thought in my stitch are not waste of time, i am promise this.


So here i want to vent:

My WW told her GF that she do not want talk to me becouse she is offend by my behavior. She told to GF and GF sported, that is i ask her polite to not contact OM2 the result would be different, but i confront her all behavior, and how i want to control her and so on...
My WW and GF suspected me that i have OW, and because of this i want to stay late after work or sport activities. My WW told GF that there is non sense in my behavior (wont to not be disrespected and have good R as men women), that my wife did not do anything wrong (aka cheating).
Then my wife told the GF that when i leave will stay out 2-3 months with OW, then i will see how much my WW was giving me, and will go back. My WW was asking GF, what i will gain from OW, what she will give me more than my W.
Then my WW start explaining that she do not want any mans in her life. After/if/when we separate ( me leaving the home) she do not want no one to mess in her life (she will have her kids, work and peace) so why some one to mess her life.
She stated that she will not allow me to threatened her with my leaving or any consequence, if i do not like her behavior and especially after i hurt her so much in the past, and hearing her now as much by offending her as cheater and so on.

My WW look like a very stubborn person with huge Ego.
Here i must add (i my WW teenage years she was sexually abused ones) so her perception of the sex is for something that she will not give to no one any more (because she has suffer so much from sex her incident in the past, than so many years sex starving marriage (to make sex with my as duties) and in the end i hurt her by cheating because of sex)
Thanks
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/06/18 05:10 AM

Hi, just wondering if you are still here.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/09/18 09:38 AM

Yes Sandy, I am still here. You write in the very right moment.
I am scared. ...
Since last time I wrote. ..the things are more of the same. She softened to me, still FB to OM but tray to avoid to be when I am there.
She sow OM two tree times as a client or just for a coffee on her work place.
She say to her GF that we do not have almost any communication when at home, but in reality she is very pleasant with me, I am also normal like. Only thing that can be seen as out of your roles, is that she polity ask to massage her legs and back occasionally. So I do it briefly, it could be seen as temp. Check.

I do not ask her about anything , do other call, only if really must to call. From other hand she Chek me out occasionally, where I am or when will be at home . It happens last week's to have a lot of emergency situation at work, so I was not at home very often.
I did not bring any R or Monday or OM talks, a week a go she was trying to start some talks very calm and polite and ask to talk . From experience I know that she what to see if I am committed, if I show understanding get to her she start nagging and blame game. So this time, I said that I already said what I have to say .-will not live like this any more. Then she start to talk - if I go to live with other woman, this woman will have expectations from me, I will not like it , and tings like this. I said that there is not perfect people. Then she sta really nagging - like how I cheated on her an so on. And she is free now but do not want any man to be with her . And she is not doing nothing wrong.....I had bite my tongue for a while and then leave the bedroom - whent to smoke outside, rhea go back to bed conversation was over.
Except this situation there was not negative interactions, I just keep my self as calm as possible.

So today situation is like this;
OM invite her for coffee at his place on Saturday befoure she go to work ,she said to him she is not at work the he said it could be at Sunday...she do not refuse or agree then they change the topic. She mentioned to her GF that on Sunday she will go coffee with a friend before work. So I expect her to see im....she have to leave home 2 hours earlier and I expect
1. She will inform me she will go or coffee
Or
2. She will tell Me not truth about some client need haircut earlier
Or
3. Something went wrong and coffee will not happened

If she tell she is going for coffee - I will not have any other option but leave, but what to do in other two scenarios?

If I leave how to do it. What to tell to the kids (something like I have a lot of work and will not be at home for month , but we will call each other and see when they wnat, and it is possible?!). If I leave at this point should I cut any financial support, should I tea her car(I steel pay for it) and give her the old one (we never separate our income ).

If I leve, what to tell her, should I explain something, or pack my clothes and leave. If I leave when to do it. She will be at work until 9pm. I can not leave the kids like this, if I wait to her be at home - what to say ...what to discuss.

I am scared about the kids how this will affect them, how to cut support to her without affecting the kids.
Peace Sandy guide me, any others opinion will be much appreciated.
Tomorrow we will have marital art together, I will play calm and collected with positive vibe, but what/how to do on Sunday.

The relationship with OM do not have future. My WW is in limerance, OM fill his free time with my WW occasionally. For now I do not have any evidence that he want something more frome her (may be just sex wit 12 years older woman ), but do not have any proofs.

I will check often for your respond.
Thanks being whit me
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/09/18 06:33 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Are you referring to you going out to Get a Life? If so, you give vague answers without giving her details.


this i have understand. My point was, If/when My W start R/M talks, and ask when i will leave and stay at other place (aka separate), or what i am thinking about how we will leave from now on. In the past, after thought conversation (days/week later), and she is calm down, she start asking this, that because i do not discus what i am thinking and what i will do.


It is up to you what you wish to tell her. I don't know where you live and the laws there. My advice is to get legal advice about separation and divorce. Know all your options and where you will stand
Quote:
legally.

[
Quote:
quote]Quote:
Tell her one time that you will not live in an open M. Tell her one time she is being disrespectful to you and the M when she has private friendships with other men. It is not appropriate. You will not be disrespected by her texting/reading messaging and giving any type of attention to OM.


I already told this, when wrote here for first time. So i think there is not reason to do it again (in the past i have said this many times). So this have to stop, saying something and doing nothing
.[/quote]

I agree, no more just saying words. Do you feel you are in an open marriage b/c of her other men? If you feel she is dishonering your boundary.........what is your next step?
Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Then, the very next time she ignores you and texts or reads his messages........you will need to do some type of action that shows her (but, with no acts of violence) the consequences for disrespecting you. Can you do that? If not, then there is no reason to ever open your mouth, b/c she already has you whipped like a dog.


Unfortunately, i do not have any other option to make consequences, than leave the house for logger time. Other option is to silent treatment her?...Now i respond to her very short and civil, do not pay any affection and/or attention, no cals, no text, not nothing. Just bills, grocery and kids related things.


So, if there are no consequences for her disrespecting you, nothing happens? Nothing changes? What about intimate and private time with her? Are you sleeping in the same bed? (Sorry if you've already told me).

Has your W ever been faced with any type of consequences from inappropriate behavior? What have you don't in previous times to take charge of the family........like a strong leader? Do they see you as their leader? How does she see you in the bedroom? Does she see you as strong, sexual, dominant male? I suppose I am asking very personal question to get a picture on you as a man. In the past, how would you handle this type of situation?

You mentioned the only option you see is leaving the house for a longer period of time. IMHO, that would not be a suffience alternative. What if you knew she would not stop this behavior? What then?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/26/18 02:04 AM

Ni Sandy,
it is been a while.

So my wife miss the opportunity to lunch/dinner the OM2. I do not know why, one reason is because of me, other reason is OM2 do not initiate hard.

They occasionally FB, she provoke him about meet for lunch.

They sow each other 2 times when he come for haircut (talk drink coffee)

Last 2 weeks WW is very nice to me, attentive want a lot of massages (legs, back feet), like old times. There is not any other intimacy (sex, kiss, hugs). I do not initiate any of the physical contacts and/or other type of pursuing.
WW start to talk about baying new flat as investment for our kids in future, she introduce this to all relatives (looks very exited). I do not show any excitement, just say will see when the time comes ( flat go on market - it will be 3-4 year paying, and we will leave with small amount of money ).
My feeling is that she try to catch me in position of not have opportunity to leave (keep me in the house, and keep contact with the OM2). I want to say to her that i will not buy anything if she do not cut contact with OM2- but not sure is it writhe move or not. I do not show any sings that track her FB. If i confront her about her chat/coffee, i will proof to her that i do it.

last 2 weeks we have pleasant time. 2 - 3 times, she try to disrespect in front of the kids, i cut her right there, after 1 hour of her silent treatment, she is pleasant again.
My grant father died, she change her work schedule to come with me and support me.

So she is like in limbo, some times it is look like she decrease contact with OM2, then initiate, and so on.

So today OM2 come to haircut, some hours later they FB. She told him, when he come after his trip to home town, they should go to celebrate (he buy apartment, her name day), like dinner/lunch. What to do about it? last time i think i wast ready to take actions (leave - if she go to his place for coffee). She did not go.

Quote:
It is up to you what you wish to tell her. I don't know where you live and the laws there. My advice is to get legal advice about separation and divorce. Know all your options and where you will stand


In past when we discuses separation divorce (initiate by me - not staying with her and OM2), she said will agree everything what i want (aka. she do not want divorce/separation - but do not want me to control her - say her how to live her life)

Quote:
I agree, no more just saying words. Do you feel you are in an open marriage b/c of her other men? If you feel she is dishonering your boundary.........what is your next step?

I am convinced they will see for lunch/dinner (it is matter of time).
I do not know what to do!!! Should i do something before it is happened again, or act after?

I do not know is it time to enforce NC boundaries?! consequence are my financing the new flat?
Quote:
So, if there are no consequences for her disrespecting you, nothing happens? Nothing changes? What about intimate and private time with her? Are you sleeping in the same bed? (Sorry if you've already told me).


We sleep in the same bed, we have pleasant time, she want (ask polite to massage her - in no sexual way. We do sport all together with the kids, and looks like she enjoined, she initiate to make me possible to be with them.

Quote:
Has your W ever been faced with any type of consequences from inappropriate behavior? What have you don't in previous times to take charge of the family........like a strong leader? Do they see you as their leader? How does she see you in the bedroom? Does she see you as strong, sexual, dominant male?

She ask me, about what to do what to buy. i think she accept me as leader in some capacity. (depend in what WW mood is she or/and ovulation/or not). Sexually we did not have sex from 5 years. We do not discuses sex, in the past she bring my infidelity and say she is negative about sex, plus she was ra*ed in her teen age.

Quote:
I suppose I am asking very personal question to get a picture on you as a man. In the past, how would you handle this type of situation?

Sandy i am scared to not screwed up, this days/weeks, we have better interaction since last 5 years, as her attitude to me (i do not consider her bad talking to her GF or the contact to the OM2). If i do not know is she contact OM2 or/and what she talk to her GF, then very thing is like very pleasant pacing stage.

Thanks
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/26/18 04:20 AM

Please someone to write me. I am angry WW talk to her GF about how will go out with OM. WW insist they are just friends but talk obout him like school girl.
I want to insist NC, but this is something will happened eventually.
I am not spouse to know.
Should I behave if nothing to know and wait or ask her to open her FB and confront. ASK her NC or I am living. ....
Do not know should I wait or act.

There is not disrespect in front of me.

Thanks
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/26/18 06:42 AM

OK I calmed down a bit, befoure come home.
So I will play as if nothing known.
I will wait until something happened and I found out without snooping or/and something that cannot be slipped out (like she date OM2).
For now I will play her game to pleasant interaction without any pursuing from my part.

Please advice what to do, when she start talk about our future ....like how/when to buy new flat or other things, that keep me committee to the marriage. Should I set her ww behavior as something she must stop, or I already told this to her, so there is not need to repeat (like not start R or Monday talks).

Writing here is helping me to not act emotionally.

Thanks to all supporting me.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/26/18 09:45 AM

Originally Posted By: betheoa
Please someone to write me. I am angry WW talk to her GF about how will go out with OM. WW insist they are just friends but talk obout him like school girl.


How do you know this, did you overhear a conversation, or were you snooping and reading her texts/ emails with GF? I'm trying to figure out if this is something she is doing in front of you which would clearly be unacceptable and would demand some kind of response from you (in my opinion anyway) or if you are reading her texts in which case you may be reading things into it ("talking about him like a school girl").

Quote:
I want to insist NC, but this is something will happened eventually.


With whom, OM or GF? If you are going to lay out a boundary it needs to have consequences. What are your consequences?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/26/18 07:43 PM

Quote:
How do you know this, did you overhear a conversation, or were you snooping and reading her texts/ emails with GF? I'm trying to figure out if this is something she is doing in front of you which would clearly be unacceptable and would demand some kind of response from you (in my opinion anyway) or if you are reading her texts in which case you may be reading things into it ("talking about him like a school girl").

There is not such a disrespect in front of me, i am trying to shut down any attempt to disrespect in front of me.
I have listened some conversations and read texts, of course i have "reading things into it".
Quote:

With whom, OM or GF? If you are going to lay out a boundary it needs to have consequences. What are your consequences?

NC with OM, my WW is not aware that i know what she talk to her GF. In general my WW lie or/and trickle trout to every one around her, just to appear cool girl. She obviously use OM2 attentions, as opportunity to look cool and free woman to the girl around her.

I could not see any other consequences instead leaving her and the kids. Leaving like in house separation is something that i cannot handle well, i have go back to polite and attentive person, even more i do not want to behave cold in front of the kids.

Just to say. At the moment my WW is fall in love to OM2. They do not have SEX, kiss or other physical thinks. There is not future planes of them to be together or something like that. There is not " i love you", occasionally some emoticons with kisses or harts.
She pursuing OM2 very hard, to write to her, to come for coffee, to talk to her. OM2 i younger 12 years. It is look like he use his free/boring time to contact her.
She do not talk with me about him.

I am preparing to leave, when /if she meet him like a date (go for dinner/lunch).
I am concern how this will affect the kids, i think mentally i will handle living her a go foreword with my life if she not agree NC and behave like married woman in future. If i leave she will not handle herself and the kids financially.

Oder option about consequent is to cut her down, when she start speaking about future investment that she want "us" to do (buy new flat and pay for it in next 4 years)
yhenks
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/27/18 03:39 AM

What you are currently doing is not working well enough to stop her contact with OM. It is good that you stopped having a conversation about her and the OM. It is good that you stopped initiating texting and calls to her throughout the day. But this is not enough. Now you must do something else.

Quote:
Then she sta really nagging - like how I cheated on her an so on. And she is free now but do not want any man to be with her . And she is not doing nothing wrong
.

She is using your past mistake as her excuse to have OM. She said she is free because you cheated on her. She is wrong. She is not free, because she is married. Her actions with OM are not appropriate for a married woman.

I think it is time you confront her and tell her you know what she has been doing. Do not tell her how you got the information! But if you confront her and tell her she must end contact with the OM, then you must be prepared to separate. If she promises to stop all contact with OM, then you do not have to separate. I think she will be nice to you and make you believe everything is fine. However, I don't think she will keep her promise to you. I think she will sneak contact with OM, and lie to you. So, you may have to separate then.

You turned to another woman because it had been so many years without sex with your W. It has been 5 years of no sex from your W. No physical affection. This arrangement will not change, if she does not get help for the rape issues. When did she tell you about the rape? Have you ever asked her parents about it?

If you knew she would never have sex with you again, are you willing to stay in a M with no sex for the rest of your life? I think she wants you for a friend, but not for a H.

I am not pushing you to do anything you don't want. You asked for help, and this is all I know to suggest. Did you talk to a lawyer?

Do not purchase a new flat. Never go into more debt when your W is interested in another man. It will makes life harder for you!
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 02/27/18 03:53 AM

Thanks Sandy.
No I am not wiling to leave without sex. I turn to another woman after many years of sex starving marriage. After my confession about my affair there no sex for 5 years already.

Her parents do not know about rape.
I know from beginning.

I am waiting her to go on date or before that.

I think will hold any investment...till something changed.


She suspect know that I track her FB
So I am waiting provocation (but she is not sure)

I will not agree to live in marriage like this.

Thanks being with me.
Soon will write situation from yesterday.

She check me by phone often. Where I am. When will come home.

The new flat is temp check I know.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/04/18 03:06 PM

Hi there, so finally i left the house, so there is what happens:

Last weeks our iterations was good and pleasant.WW has talk about future and the new flat, that we should buy. I did not refuse to discus, but stay neutral "not enthusiastic at all".
We really had good time, there was not any intimacy (of course).
There was back rub and feed rub (me massage her), at her very pleasant request.
She kept contact OM2 by FB, and ones see him at her work place (he come for hair cut). After him visit her, she FB him about how when him come back after 10 days, they will go on dinner. So i tried to hold my emotions.
So there was not attempts for disrespect in front of me. No FB text in front of me.
There was disrespect while talking to her GF, haw she will see OM2, and will not allow me to dictate her life and so on, also she lie her GF about how we behave each other , when we are at home. She says to her GF, that my WW do relay talk to me, or other (unpleasant)behaviors, but the realty is that my WW behave very pleasant to me.

So yesterday we had wedding anniversary, day before that while we were glossary, i take one chocolate (and said i will be for tomorrow), i just wanted to notice the date, but nothing like (being exited).
So what happened yesterday:
At the morning we drink coffee, and start clean the house.
At some point, i had a call from work about the emergency situation, so i must go there. I propose to my WW, if she want to come with me, she respond that, may be it will take time for me to done, and she do not want stay at the car (waiting for me). I did not insist.

Whale driving, my gut filing wast that she will use my absence (not be at home) to FB OM2. So i was wright, they talk about OM2 new flat and the issue around the flat, as well as my WW tel him that she (we) are considering buying new flat. Casual thing - like just friend conversation.

So i went back at home, i put a lot of effort to be relaxed, and not show i know that she contact him.
I make my self tea, and start do some things and chat with her about casual thing. She ask me to come next to her, to show me some sport video clip on her FB. I seat next to her, she ask me to rub her legs, while we watch the clip - at this time i was known - that OM2 was not red her last text and she was known as well. So all the time while was next to her i was preparing my self, for the moment OM2 will text back. So while we read some other page (not the FB), there was the signal about FB chat, i was keep rub her legs and waiting what she will do, so she played as nothing happened, and wait until screen turn off. I become silent, she ask me what is wrong, i ask are you going to see who was Fb chat? She respond, she know who was, the ask in not respectful way, why i ask her this: i answered : open the screen - there was OM2.
My first reaction was, to tell her that i will told the kids, that i will be missing the home for a month (work related things), and will use this time to found constant place to stay (like physical separation), she say she would want to talk withe me before talk to the kids. She ask why i am doing this, i respond that we already talk about this, and she did not do nothing about it (cut the OM2), i propose her to write to OM2 no contact letter in front of me, she refuse. She told me that this is an ultimatum from me to her, in order to stay to live with her and the kids, and she will heat me for that, i respond that her ultimatum for me is to accept her friendship with OM2, i said that i will not respect my self if i am doing this any more, i said there was enough time past a why, so i do not want to live like this any more. I ask her are you going to cut with him wright now, wright here, she start talk BS (but in reality says NO), so i went to the bed room and start pack some clothes.
She come to the bed room and ask me if there is OW, i said no, i said i am leaving because i do not want live like this. Then she start talk softly to me, and telling me there is not any relationship with OM2, that he is not pressure her at all, and he do not want nothing from her, and she is the one initiate the contacts (about this, she is write), There was the speech there just friend and so on, my respond was i will not live, in a marriage like this. She told she was expecting this, leaving her because she not behave like a wife (sex and intimacy), i respond that i am leaving not because of this - she respond that the real reason to leave is not OM2. I stop talk an continuous to pack my clothes. So there was 10 -15 minutes more talks like this (repeated the same things).
before to leave she start threatening me, that until now she was not allow any other men to touch her, but she will reconsider this. I did not react to this.
Then she said that will be the end, and there is not way back ever...and so on and so on.
She ask me to put out my wedding ring, i said will do when i choose, she said to put it wright now, i said give me your hand, to take out your wring then you will take out my, she said she will do with her wring what she wants, i respond i will do the same.
before leaving i told the kids about living for long time, and will hear on the phone and will see when they want to see me and it is possible for me to met them. They did not understand what happened, and accept this like something normal (i have work to do - because of this will not be at home).
I left the house, did not say nothing to my wife.

So i went at work (there was an emergency).
some hour later my WW call me, i did not answer. She call again, so i answer, she ask where i am, i said at work, she ask did i found place to stay, i said there was emergency (at work) so i will found the place later. She ask when i am going to take my other things from home - i said when i found place to live. The she tell me that she put me out from her FB to be tagged like husband. i said ok, then she said that she was doing this because i have done it, i respond i did not do nothing. Latly i found she do not put me out from my husband position in her FB (she played something). I said ok bye.

So all evening she was FB chat with OM2, she tried to put conversation about relationships, but he do not go deep into the topi. She did not told him about my leaving or other issue from today.

So here i am, i left, i am scared, i am doubt my self (it is right, am i controlling her, is her filing for OM2 are like just friends)....but...it is done, if i go back and said i was wrong i will not have any chance for her respect never.

So in your opinion, how often i can call to the kids?
If my wife call me, should i take the call?
If she ask to go back at home, how to respond?
What to expect from her as WW, she is very angry that i put down her normal life (stability from me and trill from OM2). I told her that i understand that she want the stability and family things from me and the trill filing from OM2, but i will not live like this any more. I told her that i had enough (OM1 and OM2), and she had time to work things out and change it, but she did not. In general her statement is that i leave her and the kids, i was cheating and separate from her then and she was not cheating and did not did nothing wrong.

Support me to stay where i am, for the first time i am doing something like this, i am feel guilty...

thanks in advance
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/04/18 07:42 PM



please help me to read into it - this morning my WW send me this message on FB (it is not shown to her that i have read it). Please tell me how or haw not to respond..please.

the message is like this " I gave up to be a woman, just to handle the life. When we take a decision for our self's it is important to take by our self's, so because of that i no longer influence your decisions.This is your life.I love you, and this probably will not change ever.
I believe in this your derision and support you to feel good and to respect your self.
I understood what i mean for you and respect that. Take a breath and feel the pleasure of the moment that you want.
I want only for all of us to be healthy, the rest is to be aware, that everything we do is right for each of us.
You make a 360 degree turn, for this courage and will is needed. I do not wanted this, so i choose to be with you as you are, without change you, because i wanted to be with the kids. It did not work out, and you decide to go finding happiness and self respect, i believe you will find thous, because the price of this is too high.
I will be next to you as a mother of your children and will respect this you decision to the end of my life.
I doubt it will be necessary, but if you ever consider to come back to me, do not inform me, yesterday you take your decision, and i admire you about that!
I wish you luck.
I had a plans, which can be achieved only being together, for the sake of kids well being, to avoid them living our life in the past (before you make it good money). Things now are different, and i hope they will be right.
I had uncountable reasons when i must leave you, but i did not, i stayed to have our family. I did it because i left a way, me dignity, self respect, pain, humiliation and stayed to the end..you put this end.
From now on health and strand for you, me and the kids."

So that is her text to me, in respond of my leaving yesterday. I ask her if she cut contact with OM2, she refuse, then i pack some clothes an leave.
Thanks in advance
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 01:54 AM

You have shown much strength and courage. I am not sure if I understand the translation of your W's message, but I understand that she refuses to end contact with the OM. Until she agrees to no more contact with OM, you should not agree to live with her.

Quote:
So in your opinion, how often i can call to the kids?


Every day, as much as you want.

Quote:
If my wife call me, should i take the call?


You should tell her not to contact you unless it is for 3 reasons. #1 is about the kids.
#2 she ends contact with OM. #3 is for business matters.

Quote:
If she ask to go back at home, how to respond?


Ask if she has told OM no more contact. You don't go back to her, unless she stops all contact, and no more cutting OM's hair.

Quote:
What to expect from her as WW, she is very angry that i put down her normal life (stability from me and trill from OM2). I told her that i understand that she want the stability and family things from me and the trill filing from OM2, but i will not live like this any more. I told her that i had enough (OM1 and OM2), and she had time to work things out and change it, but she did not. In general her statement is that i leave her and the kids, i was cheating and separate from her then and she was not cheating and did not did nothing wrong.


She has been in control of your emotions for a very long time. She does not like that you take control from her. She will try to act in different ways to you, to get the benefits of the life she had with you. She tries to make you feel guilty for you turning to OW for sex. She wants to punish you more. When you left her, you take her power to punish you.

She will test you. She may lie to you. You are to believe nothing, until she stops having other men in her life. You must stay strong. You have nothing to say to her if she contacts OM. Understand?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 02:25 AM

Thanks Sandy, i relay waiting to here this. Yes i will be strong.
Quote:
I am not sure if I understand the translation of your W's message, but I understand that she refuses to end contact with the OM. Until she agrees to no more contact with OM, you should not agree to live with her.


I was asking about her message - what dose mean? She do not ask question, just gilt trip, i sow like this. My translation was very close.
Her writing to me in general, is that I make the decision to live and she will support this decision and respect me for doing that (no longer accept that), and she will never go back to me, or allow me to go back to her.

Quote:
You should tell her not to contact you unless it is for 3 reasons. #1 is about the kids.
#2 she ends contact with OM. #3 is for business matters.
should i support her financially?

Quote:
She will test you. She may lie to you. You are to believe nothing, until she stops having other men in her life. You must stay strong. You have nothing to say to her if she contacts OM. Understand?
Yes i have understand. So i am going just to close her message, and leave like this.

Now i am homeless :), with some clothes in the car.
Of course i am in fuzzy staid of mind, but there is a feeling, i have reach something different.

Sandy, i appreciate very much your respond, i gives me strength.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 03:00 AM

I suggest you check about financial support where you live. Do not ruin your credit by having unpaid bills in your name. I would not directly hand her money. Does she have access to your banking accounts?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 03:15 AM

Quote:
I suggest you check about financial support where you live. Do not ruin your credit by having unpaid bills in your name. I would not directly hand her money. Does she have access to your banking accounts?

yes she has debit card from my account, i gave it to her many years ago, she almost never use it.
We never split our finances or any thing in that mater.
I will see if she spend from the card and will cut the access.


I have a question:
We go to do sport as family with kids marital art. Normal because my work schedule we go together only at Saturday, the rest of the time, i went in the next group, and we have time just to say hi. Should i continuous do this, went on the same place? and do it together with WW and the kids in Saturday?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 04:18 AM

She call me, i bring the phone,
she ask if i cal talk,
i said yes.
She ask me where i am,
i said at work,
she ask if i found place to leave,
i respond did not have time yet, i have a lot work to do.
She ask me if i will tell her, when found the place,
i respond OK.
Then she ask i will not keep you on the phone if you have work- i said OK
She ask me if i have something to tell her,
i respond i already told what i have to say
the say bay, and close the phone.
I think she was wondering if i track her FB, whale all evening yesterday day and all today, she FB OM2.

I was very short, and not wiling to talk.
I am filling sad. I thought i will forgive everything, but first it should stop.
it is strange....in the past (1 year ago) in situation after fight or what ever, i have waited the smallest bite from her to start talk about want to be together and so on ....pursuit like crazy, in general this is not change nothing. The reals change in her attitude was when i start to hold my ground in front of the kids, and not call her, text or what ever pursuit.
of course this change was not enough.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 05:49 AM

Quote:
I was very short, and not wiling to talk.


Good job! She is very curious about your intentions. So many questions!

Quote:
I am filling sad. I thought i will forgive everything, but first it should stop.


It is normal to feel sadness. It is too soon to forgive, b/c this is like raw meat. Give yourself time. ((hugs))

Quote:
it is strange....in the past (1 year ago) in situation after fight or what ever, i have waited the smallest bite from her to start talk about want to be together and so on ....pursuit like crazy, in general this is not change nothing. The reals change in her attitude was when i start to hold my ground in front of the kids, and not call her, text or what ever pursuit.


When she sees you won't pursue her, she will chase you. She will play games. Hold your ground, b/c if you go back to her, you do not want to experience this again.
Posted By: AnotherStander

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 06:25 AM

You've gotten great advice from Sandi!!

Originally Posted By: betheoa

I was asking about her message - what dose mean? She do not ask question, just gilt trip, i sow like this. My translation was very close.


You are doing a fine job of translating to English, but it's really hard for us to understand your W's intent because of the translation. A lot of subtle nuances get lost in a translation from one language to another. But reading it here is my take- you are taking away your W's safety net and she doesn't like it. She is trying to "nice" you back. IE, she doesn't want to give up OM or change anything, she just wants you to return so everything can go back to HER normal so that she can resume HER cake-eating of having a family AND an OM. I know it's tough on you but like Sandi said you have got to stand your ground and accept nothing less than her giving up OM and devoting herself 100% to your M. Don't believe all her sweet, flowery comments, she is not willing to commit yet. She's got to feel she will well and truly lose you before she hits rock bottom, and unfortunately that's likely to take a while. At least several months.

Quote:
Her writing to me in general, is that I make the decision to live and she will support this decision and respect me for doing that (no longer accept that), and she will never go back to me, or allow me to go back to her.


You know Sandi's rule about not believing anything they say and only half of what they do? Yeah, that. Don't try to dissect what she tells you and look for hidden meaning because what comes out of her mouth is 100% unreliable.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/05/18 07:02 AM

Hi AS,
thanks to write to my story.
yes, now i look back and see how difficult is to read my translation smile. I will write it better wording and sentence.

Quote:
At least several months.

i really did not set any time table in my mind. I hope so will not become in rush. Now i am thinking that i have opened the opportunity to WW contact OM2 more often as well as seeing him. But it has to be as it is.

Quote:
Sandi's rule

yes i have tried to follow this rules, when i was at home. I just struggle with GAL, i was scared to go out, because she did not do it by herself, as well as to not be nice and pleasant.

again thanks being here
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/06/18 06:37 AM

Hi there,
today i i am not so sad, there was moments i felt gilt how i left my kids, but i know why i am doing this.

In the morning my WW called, and ask me where i am, so i answer i drink coffee in the hotel i stayed. Then she tells me there is a problem with the breaks of her car (she use the car to go for work and drive kids to school). She ask me would i care about the car, or she must do it by her self. I answer that will manege it and inform her when will be done. I was very short, and not try to hold the talk at all.


At the afternoon, she write FB, about she use the debit car of my account, to put fuel in the car, she write that she use the car because i left them like furniture (aka. without give then any money or what ever support - this is not true, i our house there is money),She also write that she will give me back the money she take for the fuel (it is not common for use to separate any spends. She also write that she is scared about their life (her and the kids), because of the car issue. (the whole text was not in pleasant tone).
I respond shortly, when i contact with the service, i will let you know. This will be probably Saturday or Sunday.

I have question:
1. Should i go to do sport activities with her and the kids, or i should avoid any interaction together with her.
2. Next day is a mother/woman day in my country, should i do something like a text/call to note this. In the past 5-6 years ago i was gilt with neglecting and miss to note/flowers/presents many important days/anniversaries and so on.

She was in FB contact with OM2 all day.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/16/18 08:27 AM

How are you doing this week? I hope you won't stop posting.

My advice about going to sports events and doing things as a family should stop, until she ends her affair. The same advice for holidays, traditions, and special events. As long as she is contacting OM......you will not join her or show special recognition to her on special events. Do you understand why? It is not b/c you want to punish her or b/c you are angry. It is b/c a wayward wife will not respect her H if he does all these things while she is in an affair with another man. She should not have both family activities and affair activities.

BTW, you should see your children and take them to do things without inviting the W. You can support their activities without going with your W.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/23/18 12:39 PM

Hi Sandy, and all other.
I am still here...but tray gain courage to write.

So i am back to home...it was a week, to not be at home.
All week when i was "separated", my wife wrote me on FB "blame me, threatening me, being angry, ask me to go home...." and so on. On the most of the text i did not answer.
I did not call to her, and answering her call very really.
I left on 04.03. and go to home to see the kids on 10.03. When i sow them, i felt very bed. So i have decide to stay at home.

I understand it is look like slide back...maybe yes, but in reality i was not ready to live separate, considering the financial part.

For this 14 days i am at home, there is not changes. My wife contact OM, pursuing him very hard, if she pull back OM trigger her. It is madness dance.

There is nothing new, the thinks i wrote before, are happening again and again. So i am on way to stop Analise her.
I am taring to be confident, not pursuing at all and be bigness neighbor. Do not show affection and reduce attention. Try to avoid being at home (be at work).
Of course that allow her to FB OM2, but in the past i try to be next to her all the time (avoid her to FB OM)...the result is ...nothing.

So i will stay at home (for now), and will not react to any WW behavior - there is nothing i can do....except to star working on our second flat (we bought 1.5 years ago), it is near to the place we are living now. My WW wont from me to go for another flat (investment for the kids), but in reality it is her way to stuck me in long term commitment to the family (not financial opportunity to leave, or separate).

So i am starting to prepare this flat for me, that is like a Goal. I will told her this when she bring the topic(normally she start talking about together future - like buying a flat for the kids), when i pull away hardly and/or OM2 pull back.
Right after OM2 start pursuing her and/OR i show some interest (just do not cut her right away) to follow her ideas, she is relaxed, and focus her mind out of the family.

So i am going to reread detachment and Sandy`s topics and follows the Sandy rules.

I was in thinking to confront/ask OM2 to leave my WW alone, but i see this like controlling.

What i cant take a way from my WW?
1. Financial support
2. Attention Affection, if at the moment OM2 is not pursuing her.
3. The illusion of great family to relatives and mutual friends.

That is for tonight, i am at work and i am tired.

My focus goals are:
1. Make second flat ready for living (possibility to move there if separation take place).
2. Focus on my kids, much more than before.
3. Perform better at work.
Detach as much as possible.
4. Decrease/avoid snooping.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/24/18 04:51 AM

No, you should not work longer days. You should go out and have fun at night after your meal with the family. We call it, getting a life (GAL). Leave her home with kids, and you go have fun.

Quote:
What i cant take a way from my WW?


Why do you think you cannot remove affection, attention, and support? Why do you think you cannot remove illusion of happy family? Only give financial support for kids and house.

Quote:
My focus goals are:
1. Make second flat ready for living (possibility to move there if separation take place).
2. Focus on my kids, much more than before.
3. Perform better at work.
Detach as much as possible.
4. Decrease/avoid snooping.


Very good!
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 03/30/18 01:39 AM

I would like to hear from you. How are you doing?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/01/18 09:55 PM

Hi Sandi.
I am really feel dispersed, and need some support from you.
Last week I am calm do not call,ask and what ever pursuing.
It was a situation and I saw that OM write to her, as well as sow her for coffee during hair cut. She did not do any moves to stop contact even increase her pursuing time him, to see him for lunch dinner, and so on.
She try several times to involved me in R talks. I did my best to shut the talks as fast as possible.
I told her that I will not go to invest in new flat, and I will go to make our other flat ready for leaving (I told her I will move there, when it is ready, because there is not any other way , to resolve the situation). She do not do nothing about stop contact with OM - there still not relationship between them, but she is in very high limerance to him.

After I shut hurt down about, when she told me if she can do anything about it, I told her that she know what should be done, she told me she will not agree with any ultimatum, I respond the convo is over. She continuous to nagging and ask why I behave like this, I told her to stop and do not discuss the new flat end more.

Since then 2 days ago we are just civil. She is a bit happy.
Today I found out that she is going to meet him to eat cake as a date. And pursuing very hard for next dates von diners and lunches. It is like when I shut her down there is not anymore obstacles to increase the contact with OM.


So Sandy I have 3 months befoure the other flat to be ready. And I will need to leave in her.

Any advice how to behave with her.

She suspect that I will see about her dating on FB

I am lost and afraid. But today I will start real 180.
She will see my 180 as free ticket to develop R with OM further more. I AM TRYING to fighting with the panice in my self.

Please responding to support me.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/01/18 11:41 PM

Hi again Sandi,
Now i am at my PC, will write more (i need to write, i am filling very down).
So today she act out of rebellion, meet OM like date, even she know i can found out, she even send the kids, to her parents to make opportunity to meet him.
So i think this is braking point in me, i feel desperate, but will force my self to have this braking point (drop the rope).
So what i am doing from today on.
1. I am going to be much more bigness to her than ever, if she ask why i behave like this, i will answer "seriously?", i know what i know (from snooping), i will not confront her about what i know, it does not matter any more (she know what she is doing, and she know i am not agree), that is enough.
2. I will resist to temptation to confront OM, it will looks desperate, i did not see, what good will achieve if i am doing this.
3.I am going further to done our new flat to live there in the end of June, till then i need some advice, how to handle the every day living with her, i expect her interaction with the OM, to increase much more, because of my 180 and drop the rope. She will do it to punish me as well as to get her high from him, i think this will go to full blown EA and possible PA,so i am preparing my self to that. From my side begging or pleading or so on, i cut this many years ago (i did when she was only WAW), but cut this when she become WW.
4. I an sure, when i do 180 i behave aloof, and act as if i go with my life, she will behave very nice and pleasant, even more if i do not bug her about her where about or any other question about her, she will be even more glad ....?
5. Should i avoid contacts with her Parents, like going together with WW and the kids to drop the kids and take them to her parents?
6.Should i put down my weeding ring or/and change my FB status.(i feel this will be more to punish her, instead to do something about my detachment.
7. This week, will be without the kids, should i stay out of the house (that will give her opportunity), to go out with OM at the evening, aka. make opportunity to PA?
8. Should i start separate finance about the house, or i will keep handle the household and the kids, but not pay for her things.
9. Should i inform relative about the separation?


Please Sandi, or someone else, write to me, ask me to be responsible to YOU, about my behavior and detachment, i need to be responsible to someone else, because i feel too week, too nice guy, to be strong when she softened and i feel like slide back to be nice and pleasant as well.

So i need a plan (long term), and short term (to handle every day, before possibility to separate.

I feel i become WAH, i feel jealousy i feel all thing around.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/02/18 04:07 AM

Okay, I support your decision to drop the rope. I hope you understand what it means. I will try to help keep your focus on it.

Quote:
1. I am going to be much more bigness to her than ever, if she ask why i behave like this, i will answer "seriously?", i know what i know (from snooping), i will not confront her about what i know, it does not matter any more (she know what she is doing, and she know i am not agree), that is enough.


Please explain what you mean by being more bigness to her.

I agree with your responses to her. It does not matter to her that you know about her affair. She is using her children.

Quote:
2. I will resist to temptation to confront OM, it will looks desperate, i did not see, what good will achieve if i am doing this.


Correct. The problem is your wayward wife.

Quote:
3.I am going further to done our new flat to live there in the end of June, till then i need some advice, how to handle the every day living with her, i expect her interaction with the OM, to increase much more, because of my 180 and drop the rope. She will do it to punish me as well as to get her high from him, i think this will go to full blown EA and possible PA,so i am preparing my self to that. From my side begging or pleading or so on, i cut this many years ago (i did when she was only WAW), but cut this when she become WW


It does not matter why she continues to see the OM. Understand? Wrong is wrong! Wanting to punish you, does not make her affair right.

If you drop the rope, you let her go. You do not show that you care what she does or who she meets. Do not interact with her, except regarding business issues and the kids. Don't help her. Shut her out of your heart. Don't share your thoughts or words with her. She does not belong to you. You are cutting her off from you.

Quote:
4. I an sure, when i do 180 i behave aloof, and act as if i go with my life, she will behave very nice and pleasant, even more if i do not bug her about her where about or any other question about her, she will be even more glad ....?


Yes, you are probably right. But, too late for her to play these games. She has lost you. You have dropped her. Let her play nice. It makes no difference. Don't trust her niceness. It means nothing. What she thinks is not important to you, anymore.

Quote:
5. Should i avoid contacts with her Parents, like going together with WW and the kids to drop the kids and take them to her parents?


Do not go anywhere "with" your WW. You are no longer a couple. She has torn it apart. Do not go to visit her parents with your WW. If you drop off the kids or take them to her parents, you can speak. Do not tell them your plans. Do not share your thoughts with them. Only be polite, and nothing more. Maybe some day you can share more time with them.

Quote:
6.Should i put down my weeding ring or/and change my FB status.(i feel this will be more to punish her, instead to do something about my detachment.


That is your choice to make. I think you are too focused on what appears as punishment. You anticipate her punitive behavior, and you are concerned she will perceive your actions as punitive. Stop worrying about what she thinks.....if you are going to drop the rope. Be done with her.

Quote:
7. This week, will be without the kids, should i stay out of the house (that will give her opportunity), to go out with OM at the evening, aka. make opportunity to PA?


I thought you had separated from her. Have you been staying with her in the house?

You cannot control her. Stop staying with her to prevent her having a PA with OM. You are dropping your emotional rope around her. Understand? Leave her to do whatever she wants.

Quote:
8. Should i start separate finance about the house, or i will keep handle the household and the kids, but not pay for her things.


Yes! I warned you to protect your finances.

Quote:
Should i inform relative about the separation?


If the relative will not press you to change your direction, then yes, you can inform your relative. If her parents don't know, you can inform them.......if she does not tell them herself. None of this is to persuade her decisions, but just to inform her parents.

When you have stayed away from her, then you will start feeling stronger. You must stop contacting her, except to talk to your children. Don't stop being with your children. You will need to fill the emptiness with other things. People need other people in their life.

You need to make friends who are not connected to her. You feel lonely because you do not have people without her and her family. You need to meet new people. Find good people. Don't show your desperation to new people. Do you belong to a religious group, where you might receive compassion and emotional support?

Where can you go this week to be in a good, safe place......and be around other people? What do you enjoy doing for fun? Do you have a hobby or activity you like?

Have you seen a doctor about your depression and anxiety?

Talk often to us, and we can try to help you with a plan. I hope my advice today will help you drop the rope.

Please ask questions about anything you don't understand.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/02/18 08:20 AM

Dear Sandi and others,
Now i am filling a bit better.
I am glad Sandi you read all my mess from previous post correctly correctly, i was full of emotions, and i wanted to talk/write to someone, i just see you ask about me, and i felt to so alone. Thank you being there.

So what is the situation now...
My WW went for date, eat together with OM cake.
From my Previous convo snoop as well as FB snoop, she talk about me to OM, as we live together, and give each other total freedom. Of course, she do not put me in good light.
Today WW pursuit him about, further date, for lunch, diners and so on.

After work i went to sport appointment marital art (my WW and the kids go as well), but this time the kids are with her parents.

After her date with OM, she call me, and ask where i am, i told her, i am on my way, she ask me if i will go on time for firs workout (she will be there), i told her i will not, and will attend for second one, the she told me, that second one will not be, and if i wont i can go late for firs one, i told her i will not and go home, i was very short (bit angry) but try to be just firm, say bye. (from her respond i know she felt shouted down from me).

So i went home, i was thinking how to handle the evening when she come home, how to behave how to act, yesterday we were civil and even pleasant, she talk about her day (a bit).....how i can start to be with this new behavior, without snooping ....I tough i can just play as nothing happened...(but i already play this 6-8 moths ago) and this not bring any big changes (she was wondering why i am so happy, and she steel do what she do - this was convo with her GF)

I came home, her laptop was on the table as usual, with open FB, she did not make a effort to close FB (her PC has a bug from time to time, not going to shut screen down). I sow this as opportunity, to start a new page.

I left out, found a place to stay till the kids come home (Thursday), i am not call to my WW, she did not call yet (she know why i am not there, but she do not know my planes). This days i will not go home, i will not talk to her, will not answer if she call.

To be honest, other reason i not want to stay at home this evening, is because i do not want to see her (to see how much, efforts she have done to her appearance for OM, dress, make up and so on.) i know this is my EGO, but with the time i will handle it.
Also if i was staying at home, there was two possibilities.
-Just staying there without, speaking
-Start doing some thing on the PC and possibly be witness of her FB with OM
-be involved in argument.

So that is the situation now.

Now i am going to answer your question Sandi.


Quote:
Okay, I support your decision to drop the rope. I hope you understand what it means. I will try to help keep your focus on it.

Thank You Sandi, it is mean a lot, i was/i am Nice guy, i am also codependent, and many other thinks - build with the time living with manipulative woman with low self esteem.


Quote:
If you drop the rope, you let her go. You do not show that you care what she does or who she meets. Do not interact with her, except regarding business issues and the kids. Don't help her. Shut her out of your heart. Don't share your thoughts or words with her. She does not belong to you. You are cutting her off from you.

2 months ago i stooped share my everyday, i stooped talk about what i think or feel. I know from past experience, she love when i open my thoughts and heart to her, and she shut me down very hard.

Quote:
Yes, you are probably right. But, too late for her to play these games. She has lost you. You have dropped her. Let her play nice. It makes no difference. Don't trust her niceness. It means nothing. What she thinks is not important to you, anymore.

Since i red your posts about LBS with WW, i put my self (when emotions allow me, in observe mode), and see the Game. The pity is that i know what is going one, but wont to believe that this time she made the turn smile ... at this moments i wont to kick my self very hard. i will not play this game any more.

Quote:
Do not go anywhere "with" your WW. You are no longer a couple. She has torn it apart. Do not go to visit her parents with your WW. If you drop off the kids or take them to her parents, you can speak. Do not tell them your plans. Do not share your thoughts with them. Only be polite, and nothing more. Maybe some day you can share more time with them.
I understood, one of the most scary thinks for her, is about her parents to found out whats is going one with "Us" (it will brake them down) my infidelity in the past and her behavior now. I am not going to share my thoughts with now one, just the forum or/and if i found trusted person in real life ....yet there is no one.

Quote:
That is your choice to make. I think you are too focused on what appears as punishment. You anticipate her punitive behavior, and you are concerned she will perceive your actions as punitive. Stop worrying about what she thinks.....if you are going to drop the rope. Be done with her.

message received

Quote:
I thought you had separated from her. Have you been staying with her in the house?

yes Sandi, i share this some posts earlier, it was when i came home to see my kids and decide to stay with them as well as i was not ready logistically/financial to stay separated....to be honest and to see if she do/will do any changes. Now as i wrote above, begin to prepare our other flat for living it will take 3 months, it is close 10 min walk to our existing home. When the time come i have to figure out, what to say to the kids....

Quote:
Yes! I warned you to protect your finances.

I will think about....when i leave, what support will do. For now i will stop, any other things except grocery and bills.

If i inform any relatives, there will not come any good. If the situation bring the things itself, the OK, but for now i do not see any good come from it. No one from my relatives or hers, has not any power to change my direction, not after information i found here.

Quote:
When you have stayed away from her, then you will start feeling stronger. You must stop contacting her, except to talk to your children.
Yes i am filing this now, yet there is fall sown as well (just sneaky thoughts like, am i doing right things, is she WW, is the OM is real OM or a friend and so on )...but i know what is the reality.

Quote:
Don't stop being with your children.

That is main reason, why i come back to home, after my leaving home for a week. When i have my one place to leave, they will come/stay with me, so i will not have to deal with WW.

Quote:
You will need to fill the emptiness with other things. People need other people in their life.

Here i have to work hard, with the time pass 18 years together, my wife succeed to cut me off all friends i had (this will be for another topic, where i will write about how/when/why i have become WH...and how return back), I will try to reconnect some old friendships, and build new one.

Quote:
Where can you go this week to be in a good, safe place......and be around other people?

This week, until kids come back to home i will stay at motel, go to work, write more to the forum, and maybe reconnect some friend of FB. I will try to see some friends for coffee...

Quote:
What do you enjoy doing for fun? Do you have a hobby or activity you like?

This is not self pity plot, but from 5 years, every minute, that i am able, i think or i am with or i am doing something for my wife. So i know i am a mess, i hope with your help and others to start going in write direction. Last 5 years my hobby was to Goggle and read about how to save your marriage, how to be forgiven and think like this. I found this forum 2 years ago, but pay more attention 1 year ago, and finally take some real action like leave for week, or stand for my self after communicate with You.

To found out right information is very important, for example.2 years ago, when WW was "just friend" OM1 (there was similar attention to OM1 - like limerance) i found out the Red Pill forum, Alpha/beta mail things, Nice guy things ....and start to educate my self and the tings may become little better....then come OM2, and from one forum i was advised to perform Cake-eating, and be very understandable to her, because of my infidelity past....

So now when i really feel lost, i am stuck to idea i have WW, and i do not deserve to be punished any more for something i have done 6 year ago, honest apologize many times, and consistently show my change over 5 years.

Thank you being with me. This days i will write more, because i already have PC with me. last 1 mount i have not PC at home and wrote by phone.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/02/18 09:27 AM

Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Where can you go this week to be in a good, safe place......and be around other people?


This week, until kids come back to home i will stay at motel, go to work, write more to the forum, and maybe reconnect some friend of FB. I will try to see some friends for coffee...


Sorry, I was not clear. I meant, where can you go to be with other people? A place to find nice people, and maybe make a new friend.

I regret you went back to live with your wife. I understand you want to be with your children, but you could always pick them up and go out with them for some hours, until you can fix the flat for them. However, it is your business and I do not know your finances. Living with your wife is hard, and makes you weaker. I hope the next three months come quickly. It breaks my heart that she manipulated you away from your family and friends. You have been punished a long time. It's time for the punishment to stop. You have another opportunity to enjoy life.

She and OM are not just friends. She is a cheater. She is not respectful to her H.

Quote:
So i went home, i was thinking how to handle the evening when she come home, how to behave how to act, yesterday we were civil and even pleasant, she talk about her day (a bit).....how i can start to be with this new behavior, without snooping ....I tough i can just play as nothing happened...(but i already play this 6-8 moths ago) and this not bring any big changes (she was wondering why i am so happy, and she steel do what she do - this was convo with her GF)


Do not worry yourself about how to act with your wife. You are dropping her. She is not an honorable woman. You don't care what she thinks about how you act. You don't have to stay in a room shut away. You are free to do what you want. Understand?

Please stop snooping. It does not stop her actions. It does not stop your pain. Can you delete her from her your Facebook? Don't read her messages to OM. That will be her life, and you will make a new life for you. Let go of reading her messages and snooping. You are getting stronger.

Quote:
I left out, found a place to stay till the kids come home (Thursday), i am not call to my WW, she did not call yet (she know why i am not there, but she do not know my planes). This days i will not go home, i will not talk to her, will not answer if she call.

To be honest, other reason i not want to stay at home this evening, is because i do not want to see her (to see how much, efforts she have done to her appearance for OM, dress, make up and so on.) i know this is my EGO, but with the time i will handle it.
Also if i was staying at home, there was two possibilities.
-Just staying there without, speaking
-Start doing some thing on the PC and possibly be witness of her FB with OM
-be involved in argument.


If you can stay away, that is good. But don't delay fixing the flat due to not enough finances. Understand?

Quote:
Thank you being with me. This days i will write more, because i already have PC with me. last 1 mount i have not PC at home and wrote by phone


Very good! smile

Take good care of yourself.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/03/18 01:10 AM

Hi Sandi,
today i wake-up very sad, but i told my self you will make it today, tomorrow will see.
So i went to work....
Yesterday my WW did not call at all, she know way i am not at home...
today in the morning she call, i did not answer, the she call again 2 hours later, i did not answer. After an hour she call again - i answer (looks like emergency).
She ask haw i am (in very polite meaner, like nothing happened,
i answer - working.
She ask - did you went to work again yesterday (because i did not slept at home)
i answer, No, i did not want be at home - in very calm and firm meaner, (she sound confused about my answer)(did i screwed up saying i did not want be at home- like too much info)
She ask - when you come back at home.
I answer, when the kids will be back at home (she sound confused about my answer),
She said OK... and i shut her down by bye, and hanging off.

Late She call again,
ask if i talk to the kids, i say yes (yesterday),
she ask if they talk to me when they want to go back to home.
I answered they told me about coming at Thursday, and i told her to talk to them about when they want come home.

later she call me to say they want come home today, and if i can go to her parents to take them after my work (she is at work till evening.

So am i do something wrong?

I see her game to try to nice me, and bring me home by forcing the kids come home earlier, then it is planed.
I will behave, calm without being suck i any R conversation.

She was very nice at second call, she try to keep me on the phone.

Why she fore coming the kids to bring he at home?

Will write later,
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/03/18 02:03 AM

I was struggling to get out of bed and face my day. I kept saying, "Sandi, just put one foot in front of the other one, and you will move". Some days are difficult, but if we focus on this day......do what we need to do on this day.....and try not to worry so much about tomorrow.......we will keep moving forward.

Quote:
So i went to work....


Good for you!

Quote:
Yesterday my WW did not call at all, she know way i am not at home...
today in the morning she call, i did not answer, the she call again 2 hours later, i did not answer. After an hour she call again - i answer (looks like emergency).


Perhaps you can tell her to not call you unless it is an emergency.


Quote:
She ask - did you went to work again yesterday (because i did not slept at home)
i answer, No, i did not want be at home - in very calm and firm meaner, (she sound confused about my answer)(did i screwed up saying i did not want be at home- like too much info)
i answer, No, i did not want be at home - in very calm and firm meaner, (she sound confused about my answer)(did i screwed up saying i did not want be at home- like too much info)
She ask - when you come back at home.
I answer, when the kids will be back at home (she sound confused about my answer),
She said OK... and i shut her down by bye, and hanging off.

So am i do something wrong?


No, You did very well. smile. I think she was trying to get more information from you, and she was finding a reason to call several times.

Quote:
I see her game to try to nice me, and bring me home by forcing the kids come home earlier, then it is planed.
I will behave, calm without being suck i any R conversation.

She was very nice at second call, she try to keep me on the phone
.

As you say, it is her game.

You will make today good for you. Okay? Don't worry about what your W will do later. Just think about your job and doing good work today.

Do you have plans for after work today? Do you have a good book to read, or a good movie to watch? Treat yourself to something nice. Enjoy your personal space and time away from the stress at home.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/03/18 03:29 AM

Quote:
I was struggling to get out of bed and face my day. I kept saying, "Sandi, just put one foot in front of the other one, and you will move". Some days are difficult, but if we focus on this day......do what we need to do on this day.....and try not to worry so much about tomorrow.......we will keep moving forward.

Yes Sandi, i am going to deal with My/Her craziness day by day,but plan my logic moves long term.

Quote:
No, You did very well. smile. I think she was trying to get more information from you, and she was finding a reason to call several times.
All the years, she has known every, moment where i am, who i am ...in the past she call 10 -20 times par day.

After OM1, i start changing this dynamic, to day i do not share any information about my day (only kids related) , if she ask i answer very short.

Quote:
As you say, it is her game.

Yes i know how she behave, there is logic in her un logic behavior, and this is her selfish interest....Thanks to You Sandi, i am more confident to not fall back, to crumbs she trow on me (like being nice, interested or caring).

To day she is scared, about what i will do in future-so she is nice and polite, as well as yesterday she got i high from 2-3 hours meeting with OM.

Quote:
Do you have plans for after work today?

I had plane to stay at the motel and write to forum and organised some thing on the PC - but as i wrote above, I am going to take my kids from her parents and go home with them. You can see ...her plan. She send them to the parents to have opportunity to meet OM, so OM will not be in this week as well i cut her of being at home if the kids not there, so she take them back. Out of my filings and anger, this make me smile of so much effort for 2-3 hours of feel good, but i remember this feeling from my WH past, the difference is that i cover what i have done, so no one to found out.

Quote:
Do you have a good book to read, or a good movie to watch?
I will spend some time with my kids educate them about PC things, then will work on PC also will make some drawing about the flat i am going to prepare in 3 months smile

Quote:
Treat yourself to something nice. Enjoy your personal space and time away from the stress at home.

Thanks very much Sandi.

Today i am going to handle this evening with honor and grease (be with the kids and WW around me). Yes my WW have OM in her Head and heart, but i am not allowing this to cut my confidence. Tomorrow will handle after i woke up.

Good evening Sandi and all others there, if i have opportunity will write later.
Sandi how you are doing? Every day i wait something from you as comment, answer or/and advice ..... but you are human ....so how are you today?
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/04/18 12:13 PM

Quote:
All the years, she has known every, moment where i am, who i am ...in the past she call 10 -20 times par day.


Tell her to stop calling if not for an emergency, else you will not answer her calls. And, just because she asks you where you are and what you are doing.....does not mean you must answer her questions. Don't lie, but don't be her child. You are a grown man who does not have to answer to her.


Quote:
I will spend some time with my kids educate them about PC things, then will work on PC also will make some drawing about the flat i am going to prepare in 3 months


Sounds boring. grin

May I make a suggestion? The kids want to spend time with just their father, not a PC educator. Maybe, PC education for a very short while? Can you take them to a petting zoo, or do something fun outdoors? smile

Quote:
Sandi how you are doing? Every day i wait something from you as comment, answer or/and advice ..... but you are human ....so how are you today?


I made it through my day by putting one foot in front of the other. It kept me moving, which is good.

Please post, even if I can't respond every day. I hope some other posters will join. Sometimes, I get distracted when someone is having an emergency situation. I still care, even if I get behind with posting.

I have a good feeling about you. I believe you are a good man and a good & loving father. You are getting stronger and are going to be much happier soon.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/05/18 09:55 AM

Hi there.
Day before yesterday, when i took the kids from WW parents, i do not stayed long with her parents, just take the kids and left. I got late, 2 hours late (because i spend time, reading and writing on here, as well as just have a cup of coffee). I did not call to WW (in the past it was norm to call her when i am there and when i left and so on). From month or so i cut this, she call me on my way back with the kids, to ask....nothing (what happening), i said we are on our way, she was surprise because we are late ...i did not explain nothing, just said bye.
When we got home, i start unpack the tings from the car, the she come from work.I just said hi and she respond...i continuous do what i had to do, i did not look at her at all, like she is not there.
We was start eating, she try to chat with me several times, i avoid this bay very short answers and not wiling to prolong the convo. Then she ask How were her parents, i told her they looks like fine and i did not talk much to them because i stayed there not for long .
She looked very questionable and worried, ask me did i go late for them (aka. am i not go for the kids right after work..) i just answer Yep -- and did not give her any other explanation.
After kids went to bed, she try to chat again, but i did not engage in the convo, i just answer comment with fue words (i did not want to do silent treatment her, but did not want to talk to her, she felt this and stop talk).
I did not ask her nothing, i did not confron noting, i behave like she is some neighbor i my house.
Later i went to bed before her (this is out of my norm ), after 5 minutes she came to bad.
All day i was fighting with the anger in me, about what how much effort she was doing to meet OM or/and others foggy things, because i almost do everything and she is so stubborn, but i have felt relief when thinking about My new flat after 3 months, and how free i will feel when i moved (i am like WAH), i am not felling the time with WW, as something worthy, even now she is soft, polite and chatty.

Yesterday i am performing at work much better, after work she call me to see if i am going home after work, to take some grocery on my way home, i was very short and collected on the phone.
Went home, all evening i was avoiding her, not ignoring (silent treatment) but avoiding. She made some suggestion to go to shop buy some sweet (in the past i take this enthusiastically - like a time together) - this time i did not even notice, than she said, she will not go out.
She ask me, should she make some cake
me: if you want
She: will you help me (in polite meaner)
me: sure (after 5 seconds silence - in the past i will sow her wanting to cook with me, as way of reconciliation-now i see this as temp check. So i help her a bit, but i was not showing any enthusiasm)
Did i do wrong help her cooking? This do not mean nothing for me, just temp check from her, try to softening the situation from her side.

There is new phone, her phone has some problems and not wring every time, so she asks if i would to setup the new phone for her, i answer her that i will do later. I did it. (if i was refusing, it will looks like i punish her ....grrrr). I think i am not going to do thinks like this i future.

Later on she went to bed, i went an hour later, spend some time watching YouTube.
All this evening i avoid her, i was not chatty, but spend time with the kids. She asks about the new flat, i answer very short and shut her down, about this topic.

So there is 2 days after my DDR (Decision to Drop the Rope).
And finally today.
When I came from work, WW was in front of the block with girl neighbor, I said hi , she ask if I will stay with them, I answer –will go home to eat something ..she answer she will come home in a minute (I did not ask her for that).
So she came home, I was the same as yesterday, avoiding her but not ignoring, not affection at all and very les attention (answering only with few words). She tries to chat, to see is there any difference in my attitude to her from yesterday – there was not.
In me there was one gut feeling …..so I was in waiting mode …. (I will post the main point of the conversation)
WW: So she starts …ask about what I am thinking about our new flat (the place where I am going to live after 3 months when is ready for living), last 2 weeks I told her several times what will happened, this time I am answering the same, after 3 months the flat should be ready then I will go there.
Me: I told her that I do not want any convo, about this matter, I told her that this type of convo did not bring any good in the end, and that everything is told so there is nothing more to be sad.
WW: She said, that it is time to talk, calmly and have constructive convo.
Me: I told her, that I agree, but my experience from our interaction in M or R talks last 5 -6 years, get very intense at some point in the convo, so the end result is negative always.
She: She turn the plot about, always it is me, and I turned this way (normally in the past I always try to calm the situation, as take the blame or give up of my point) , last few months I become more assertive, and she have difficulties to handle this (she clime this behavior from me as aggression or stubbornness)
Me: I sad fine, (just shut down of her).
She : So she continuous the convo and ask me why I will leave to the flat, when the flat is 5 minutes away? Why I need to leave our family home where I living with the kids, and moving just few minutes a way ?

Me: I answered – because I do not want to live with her (she was shocked – by my answer)
She; She answered that is enough to her, and she understand me, end she finally is convinced about my real reason for leaving her, and my disagreement about her “OM friendship” is just occasion. She told me that my real reason to not want to live with her is that she is not intimate with me from many years, and I want to leave her, but do not want to be seen as such a a**, so I need occasion, and finally her happiness with her friendship is the right one form me. She told me that she saw this, when I show I am not agree when she is happy.
Me: I answer, that like a man, it will be ridicules to be happy for my wife when she is happy from other man’s attention and affection.
She: The she start to talk they are just friends OM1 OM , and pay attention to her without asking nothing from her, and haw they save her from doing much more wrong things (like PA or something like that ..) and how they gave her so much but she gave so little …… And how she was not did/doing nothing wrong, and how i dare to want she to be miserable, and how I do not want her to be happy and feel herself and so on..
Me: I told her I did not want to listen (about OM`s), and is she doing something wrong or not is up to her perception, for me reality is that I will not live with woman that think such things (relationship with OM and flirty attitude) is nothing wrong. Period.
She: She ask me to not go/live with other woman’s I our new flat, because we bought together, and she is not going to take other mans to our existing home after me leaving.
Me: I answer, that this is not point of discussion, because separations is separation, we cannot have any expectation like this from each other, every one of us should move on with the life in some why ….. (she become a little nagging, then calm down)
She: Ask when I will divorce her, I answer when I need to. She ask if I want something from her ….(I know this trap, normally when she ask this I have start to explain some condition, wishes and hopes, if I show some level of attachment or hope for reconciliation, she shut me down very hard, as much pain she cause verbally as much she is satisfied)
Me:…this time I ask, just to clarify, what she have in mind …….she refuse to say exactly what she want to hear …after several asking’s from me, she told me if I want something from her about the divorce or/and about the flat. I answer that about the flat I did not expect nothing from her, about the divorce ….i told her when some of us have need/urgent to fail for divorce, to do it and inform other person.
Then she became very intense and nagging, she become treating me about, from now on she will do all thing she did not do until now, she will found someone else to look after for her, she will go on dating side to found some divorced men to live with her ……. many things like this. (in the past when she threatening about going to find some other men to be with her, and she did this when the thing do not went her way, normally I freaked out , I had become very angry, my ego hit the fans – it was because 5 years I did not touch her – she told me that she will not allow any man especially me to touch her sexually)…but not this time. I have looked at her in the eyes, smile very confident, and tell her story ….the message from the story was, there is billion people in the world……

I felt that the convo become intense, she was not so much calm any more, she tray to rotate again and again all her statements about , not doing nothing wrong, I was cheating, I was wrong, I want her to be miserable …..at this point I said I am done with the convo, the she said something about how wrong I am ….at this point I become loos my calmness ….
Me: I told her that when I came home 3 days earlier (when she date OM), her PL was open so I read everything, and told her to clear her head from the fog, and told her to found some clear had girlfriend to read her chat with OM, and to give her opinion ……
The I left the house for walk – I felt my self-become judgmental – and found difficult to bite my tongue.
When I came home 30 later, I continuous to behave with her like a gust, as before our convo.

I hate myself that was involved in R talk, I have tried my best to not talk about my or her emotion, just listen and set my point of view when is needed. I did not ,move back from my point to leave, This time I did not say - I will live if you……(not cut contact with OM), I said I am living after 3 months, when the flat is ready, she is very much aware what she have to do in order to stay with her …..i hope to be enough strong and handle all the provocation coming around, she will pay me back about my ground standing 

So I am not happy being involved in R talk, but quite satisfied about standing my point of not accepting cake eating as something normal, and something I have deserve as Former WH.

For tomorrow I am not going to have any expectation, I spouse tomorrow will feel very down, it is normal for me after R convo, where nothing is resolved. But for that will write tomorrow  or today after some hours.
It is just vent, please some comment, I will appreciate every opinion
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/05/18 10:09 AM

Hi Sandi
Quote:
Tell her to stop calling if not for an emergency, else you will not answer her calls. And, just because she asks you where you are and what you are doing.....does not mean you must answer her questions. Don't lie, but don't be her child. You are a grown man who does not have to answer to her.

Of course not, not any more - and she is very pissed of because of this...Mrs Nice Guy slowly sail a way smile

Quote:
Sounds boring. grin

May I make a suggestion? The kids want to spend time with just their father, not a PC educator. Maybe, PC education for a very short while? Can you take them to a petting zoo, or do something fun outdoors?


You are right Sandi, i become boring person, i am going to change this smile tomorrow WW is on work, i am with the kids at home, will found something fun with them

Quote:
I made it through my day by putting one foot in front of the other. It kept me moving, which is good.
I do not know you well, but if everything with your legs is OK.....you are quite funny person smile

Thank you Sandi
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/05/18 10:39 AM

Do not be angry at yourself for having the relationship talk. She provoked you into having the talk. It is okay. Now she knows she is losing her husband.

She was testing you. She wanted to find the reason you were avoiding her.

Do not believe her bad words. Don't believe her threats to find men to live with her. She only wants to hurt you and make you feel guilty for leaving. She should feel guilty because she has not been a good wife to her husband.

You did very well, and showed much strength. She could not make you back down and act like a little girl. You showed much confidence. I am proud for you!

Please do not feel depressed. You will be fine, when you no longer live with her. You will be happy when you move to your new flat.

Thank you for writing the long post. I hope you have a good night of rest.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/09/18 04:05 AM

Hi Sandi and Others,

Thanks sandy about your words, i needed it.

I have spend last days reading a lot about others LBS stories.

Now i have opportunity to writhe about things around me.
There was several days, i have being at home with kids (it is holy days and work off days). Some of the days WW was at work.
There was silents between WW and OM, until day before yesterday, when she write to him about his job celebration days (she was very polite, but not so flirty, he respond in very business meaner), yesterday he write to her about holly days, and she respond today again in very polite manner), he asked if she can take him for hair cut on Wednesday, she said ok, in not so much polite manner. Normally she will show so much happiness to see him, this time she was short), i am not going about look into it so much but there is two possible reason, first - she will try to slow the communication, second - last time when they go on date to eat cake (this day i stayed out of home ) at the evening they had chat, friendly, flirty ....but in the end when my WW said about him to have wonderfully, pleasant, lovely........night and dreams, he respond to her short and miss-wire her name with other family name. That spice some reality in my WW fog, about that, Maybe the OM has some other old/young ladies to chat/coffee/and being affectionate -- That was just to vent, it is not have nothing to do with my plan.

About my interaction with my WW. I keep to not be affectionate a all, and pay very less attention. Yes i handled, and did not move back slide about it. My wife tried to have chatty with me, i answered short or lough a bit, but in general did my things on PC.

She asked to help her cooking, i did it, but not overly enthusiastic at all. I was not sad or passive aggressive, just have done what need to be done than come back and do what i am doing on PC.

She tried to ask me to do some thing for her (bring for her something, give water ...) let say i did her request 1 from 4 request, when it is on my way, she noted this.

All days i avoided her, it was like she followed me. One evening, all they she was propose to go on shopping or else, just outside the house, i did not say nothing because it was not right request, it was just she talking ( in the past i will go where she want just at her eye glimpse), not it is different story smile. So then she asked do you want go out, in front of the block, i said fine. There was some neighbors there, so we had not so bed time. It was funny, WW was in cone with one woman, from other side i was doing some garden work and chat with other woman, this other woman is become little flirty with me, and start laughing in our convo, my wife noticed and come around to see what happened (and touch me, on the shoulder, and other famine things to show them that i am hers:)) - This is just situation, i do not reed on it.

More interesting situation was yesterday:
Yesterday she wonted to go with the kids to my father, this is out of norm, because 5 years ago when, i confessed to her about my affair, she called my father to talk with him about what to do, he was advising her to work thing out with me (she took the way of resentment and punishment and we are where we are), but she build resentment to my father because he later 6 months after their convo, he advice me to not live in a hell i live to, i of core talk to her about my and my father covo, and she was angry. So the last 5 years she was not wiling to talk to him by the phone. And yesterday she was pushing to go there and play with the kids on my father garden WTF?. How ever, we go there on the way i was silent as i am after drop the rope, when we goth there i was very chatty with all other but my wife. Generally we spend very good time all of us, then go home. I did not put nothing in this - only temp cheeking from my wife am i discus our problems with my father.

And today back to the norm, My WW told our sad story to her client (frequent client mail, who is look like someone she cant speak more freely), so i was painted as WH, controlling and mean. Who do what ever he wonted and not telling her what i am going to do. Who control her every move and so on. In reality there was not more 10 % truth, and eve this was trickle trout WTF? How ever, i an glad to have this info, this brings me close to the Drop the Rope mindset.
I am looking fro my flat.
It is looks like she prepare hers surroundings about our separation and possible divorce, to me the bad guy....i am OK with this, because i know the truth and that is important.
The rest of the time before i move to my flat, i will be very calm.
I am not going to confront nothing at all
I will cut her down men she show disrespect in front of me

This convo with her client really hit me hard from my internal sliding back, after the evening yesterday.

Will write soon
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/09/18 05:00 AM

I want to vent something more,
I really cannot understand why WW, tell not trout to others about her/our situation, the stories and situations are far a way from the reality, and she talk to people who are young and not so close to her to be vulnerably to her. Why she need to talk to other about her problems ....what she gain?

Thank you Sandi ...months ago, you support me in a way to do confident step, then i leave the home for a week, then go back because of the kids and lack of good place for living. But this showed me that i will not die, without my wife, or being next to her to save her from doing something out....


This week when i stay out of home and the kids was not there, and when my WW call me to ask when i will come home, and i answered, that will come home when the kids are home, she bring them at the same day smile. In her convo to her client, that when i have to stay at work for some evenings and sleep there (it is not true), i went to take the kids and leave them with my wife, to keep her stuck at home (it is not true, that is a 100% lye).

That is the thing that i can leave with, to tolerate this doable life, and this will get worst, because i do not see how she will bring me in better lights, some when ??

Yes it is look like she is WW, when i was WH i have never discuss nothing with no one, and never speak about my wife in such a manner.

So thanks to sandy i have a plan, after 3 months i will have opportunity (balls) to change my life, until now it was like dark please where i am, because there was not nothing i can do to bring me on place where i feel good . I take every crumb of attention and affectation my wife, as something so valuable and so on...

Now i have set and think, what will loose if i leave my wife .... nothing.
I am not talking about the kids and the things that are kids related...
But talking about What will loose me if my WW is not next to me ......nothing, why ...will contentious
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/09/18 06:04 AM

because:
1. She is not the person i know from the past anymore, even the person from the past, from the knowledge i have now, is not healthy.
2. She will rarely give any affection, and when she did it it is as manipulation or somehow in her favor. it is never to truly make me feel good.
3. The attention she only when is in her interest. She is not interested in me anymore. Only when she is concerned about my where abouts or/and she has some doubts.
4. Sex and other related thing to physical intimacy...there is no sex from 5 years. prior that we lived i sex starved marriage
5. Other intimacy, there is not intimacy at all from 5 years, prior that, we struggle with showing intimacy.

So about am i love her....i can rely honest answering this when, i overcome my Nice Guy, codependency and so on .

Of course i will love to share with her the rest of my life, if she make effort to cover my need and allow me to cover hers.
The love is effort not feeling.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/09/18 10:25 AM

How did you learn about her conversation with her client?

I hope you will not care what she says to her clients or friends. You know what is real and true. You know you are not a bad person. You do not have to prove you are good.........just be yourself.

Come to vent on the board as much as you want.

Keep doing a good job. smile
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/09/18 04:51 PM

Hi Sandi
Quote:
How did you learn about her conversation with her client?

That is part of my inlet - in this way i found out my W is WW not WAW. I can listen some of her convo. If you want to know exactly how, will write in PM. This way of snoop keep me on track to not bye her niceness and other behavior, that mess my head ....if she come out of fog.

Quote:
I hope you will not care what she says to her clients or friends. You know what is real and true. You know you are not a bad person. You do not have to prove you are good.........just be yourself.
Thanks Sandi, of course i do not pay attention for other opinion, just i am wondering why she need to do this ...

Yesterday, at the evening WW come from work, i was promise my self to not show any emotion, due to her convo with the client. So be it,
I was made some dinner, when she come i just said Hi, she was chatty, said some things about her day, i was very short like (yea sure, very good and other respond like this), she was eating on the coach in front of her PC. OM start to FB chat, it was obvious to her that i seeing, and she answer him, then thy contentious to chat for a wail. I already was in mental/emotional stable condition, so i start to think what to do, about the situation.
I went to the bathroom to wash my teeth, i was thinking to go out of the house, but it will look like more like reaction to her chat, than like my GAL.
I went on balcony, to smoke, i did not look at her when i pass living room, after a wail she come on balcony to smoke too, she try to talk to me, i answer with yes/no, without looking at her. When i finish my cigarette, i went to wash my teeth again and went into bedroom. She come write after me in bed. She start asking some question about kids day, what they eat, whit hum they play and thinks like this ....i answered with one/two words. I was thinking to tell her not to speak to me, but decide to not do it - it will not bring any benefit, only will show my emotional condition..

Today in the morning i woke up, empty ...like there was not filings but calmness, i went to make coffee for me (normally will make coffee for her as well, this time i did not), purposely avoid her when i was smoking on balcony. She tried to join me on balcony, but i went in when was ready with my cigarette.
So got ready and prepare leaving for work 30 min earlier, i told her bye, she ask are you living (like it is early), i answer yes.
Right before i was leaving she ask, am i going to take the garbage, i answer NO, wright before i closed the door, she asked why i am not going to take the garbage, i answer because o do not have free hands, and left. (normally i am doing this without asking, or when she asks i am doing it, does not matter if i have free hands or not
This time i wanted to leave, i couldn't even look at her.

So, i will do nothing about recent situations. Will be as distant as possible, and look after my flat (my moving there gives me co much confident), i see this as freedom, to deal looking at my wife at the evenings .....
Something to add, after our R talk some days ago (it was initiate by her), she was convinced, that i want to leave her because she was not behaving like real woman and wife with me, and her interaction with OM was just a casual and i use it as reason ...., she was telling this to her friend/client yesterday (not the same, but the plot was like this, that i may be have OW and need reason to leave my wife/family), all this regarding my stands, that i will move i our other flat, because of her behavior.
So it is look like to others that i am dumping her, it is look likes she convincing her self the same. She hardly gaslight me about her relation/interaction with OM, i am not buying this anymore.
Be with me

will write soon
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/10/18 05:37 AM

Hi there, i finish my work day.

Thing at work were hard, i did my best...
Now i have 60 min travel, i did not drive so i have time to vent ...
during the day i have several panic filings, about WW went from where she is to full blown PA, or do many things just to show me how much stubborn she is (she is capable to do this), i fight this panic with, thoughts how i am living by my self and/or with other no face woman (imagine good relationship with not particular woman).
So today instead of go home after work, i am going to take exercise to marital-art (normally we going with the hole family WW and kids, but today i will go by my self, just to decrease my presents at home.

The yesterday event , chat with OM in front of me (when some days ago we had discussion about i am living after 3 months because of their contact WTF).

I just vent, i know why she was behaving like this, i have red a lot....

I relay do not remember what does mean good healthy relationship with woman. In the past i had a lot of issue, i found them 5-6 years ago when i went out of my WH fog and year later confess to WW about my infidelity(she was manipulating me hard over 1-2 months to confess, without any proofs), the i start changing my self for good, but with not proven sores, and take advise from here and there (not from this forum), i have become More nice guy then ever, so i lost my wife respect even more after lousing her trust. The things went in right direction after i found Red Pill forum, i start doing Alpha things but without support to keep doing i went back to passive living my life, give everything possible to the family (bu mostly focused of my wife), and ask nothing in return (but expect a lot of things smile Such a nice Guy ha!

Finally, after many wrong moves last 2-3 years, i found this site, and start reading .....a lot of reading, i have done some of the advice, but then i backed slide because i was not sure, if it was MLC or something else, also i was wearing a lot of gilt about my infidelity - so this prevent me of doing what will work...i did mostly what will not work.

The i stuck to Sandi WW definition, it is took me 6 moths or more to, have courage to write, why so long? because i know if someone stuck to me to support me i have to do wright things, because i will not waist someone time/wiling to support me, and me trying to make excuses...

Now if nothing more, i have more self confident that I will be better in future, does not mater how the things will going between Me and WW. Now i know better what is needed for good R to exist like a Man and Husband, of course i know what to ask from the woman next to me.

Huh right on my way to exercise WW call me to as where i am, i as on my way to exercise, she try to keep me to the phone, could i will go on my way back to home to bye some things, i said OK and said buy, she wished me nice exercise and start telling me about other thing related to her and kids exercise (keep me to phone), i just said fine, buy.

Today i staid longer on exercise, she called me on may way back to home, and ask if it is OK to talk (like may be i am someone :)), i said speak, then she ask me to buy something more from the shop, said OK and buy.
It is always like this, when she know that mess the things up, she become nice, if i take my guard down she become nasty ....uffff i am tired from this games, if i was fully detached it will be a lot of fun, but now it is not funny at all.

Here i am sarcastic to my self

So i am going to my home, and will be the best possible BeTheOak for the rest of the evening, tomorrow we will see, i will be other day.......but my plane is clear, 3 months to my next step in my (Soup Opera).

By the way, to day i did 2 hours high intensive exercise in marital-art, and yes the chemicals after exercise bring my confident smile.

Will write soon
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/13/18 01:53 AM

Hi there i need to vent/writhe.
Some days passed, there was nothing different in situation.

My WW try to be nice/talk i was short. The chat with OM steel going on, yesterday OM was with her to hair cut him, so there is not change in the situation with OM.

I already 3 days stay in our martial-art exercise one hour more (got home later), it is noticed by WW. Yesterday i ask my D8 to stay if she wants to do one extra hour with me, my WW was very wondered. when we got home, my wife asked me if i want to go out with her, and do more exerciser on the grass (to show her how she should do correctly). I agreed, of course i did not put anything into dish niceness/attention/or whatever good she shows.
The interesting thing was yesterday after exercise, me and WW staid in front the enter of our block and smoke, OM1 (this was our neighbor, WW developed some limerance to him 1,5 years ago - it is not current OM2). I staid very calm, i was not like rood even indifferent, but i was not chatty, there was 5 minutes talk (casual BS), then i said , fine let is go home (not ask if we are going home, just go home). Here the interesting thing was my feelings ----there was not any feelings, i just observe the situation WW/OM1 body language, how they speak, how was my Body language, i did not felt anger or other bad feelings , just calmness in me.
When we go home, WW try to follow me here and there, i did my things and did not pay so much attention to her.
She asked i i want, tomorrow (aka today), to do the same (doing exercise)in front of block - i said fine will see.

So WW try very hard to nice me some how, be with me, do the thinks with me. I am trying to avoid some of her invitation, but not to look sulk/pity/or other unattractive things.

For sure i did not show any excitements/optimism/enthusiasm about nothing related to/with her.

We did not have any R talk since last one, but i have plan, and she knows my plan - it is as simple as that "I do not want to live with woman that see not wrongs in what she does, so i am going to live in our/my new flat in the end on Jules, when the flat is ready to live there" - when we talked, there was try from her to the line "we are just friends, i did not have done anything wrong, i am controlling, i did the ultimatums ....." the hole script, then i said this.

So, i an thinking how to handle this 3 months, without being jerk and being the person that full will left:
1. Do not check her were abuts/whom/when - i was not doing this from more then 6 months.
2. call her only in emergency/ answer her not every time.
3. Not show any reaction from my side/ does not meter what she do. Only in case of obvious disrespect in front of me, to call her out at the moment.
4.Do my shear of housework, but nothing more.
5.Do not initiate any R/M talks, and avoid as much as possible her attempts to involve me. Just be broken record about my statement "I will not live in marriage like this".
Mentally be confident i will be ok, does not matter what WW do/will do.
6.Do not react, when she purposely use my buttons, i am going to cut the buttons.
7.Do not share my where about, if she asks, tell as much info as possible.
8.Be maximum mysterious, do not share my thoughts/feelings any thing that where i am mentally.
So wish me luck, that the confidence i have now, will stay longer.
I have to end this day in the best possible way, tomorrow will handle tomorrow.

Will write soon.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/13/18 05:15 AM

Hi, sorry that I have been late to respond. You are gaining more strength every day. I want to ask you some questions, and you may think upon a couple of things.

Your W sees you watching her when she contact OM on her PC, yes? You said you did not leave the house b/c it would appear as if you are reacting. Do you feel she communicates with OM in front of you, to push your buttons and get a reaction?

Your plan is "dropping the rope" or "letting her go" (both the same). You do not need to be concerned what she thinks. You do not have to stay in the house when she is disrespecting you by communicating with OM in front of you. Tell her she is a disrespectful W and you do not want to be with her. Tell her you do not want her to share your bed. Tell her to sleep on the couch or in another room, b/c she is disrespectful.

If you want to leave the house when she contacts OM in front of you......then leave. She knows you see and she knows she is disrespectful to her H by talking with this OM. You are not a fool and believe they are just friends. Be stern and tell her you don't want a W who does not behave respectfully. You can leave the house without telling her where you are going or when you will return. It's okay. You don't have to stay and find something to distract you while she talks to OM. Show respect for yourself.

Does this make sense to you? Have I confused you?

She may not sleep on the couch or in another room, but you can still tell you do 't want her in your bed, then roll over to go to sleep and don't say any more to her. Remain in your bed, even if she doesn't leave. Make sense? You are telling her you don't want her there, and you turn over to go to sleep without having further conversation. Remain calm and don't fight with her.

Yes, you are dropping her, but you also show respect for yourself. You show her she is not fooling you with her game of being "friends" with OM.

I believe you are strong enough to make this step. Think about it and tell me your thoughts. If you aren't sure what I am saying, please ask questions.

((hugs))
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/16/18 06:13 AM

Hi Sandi,
Quote:
sorry that I have been late to respond.

Every time you wrote to me, i felt like, i am not alone and less confused/scared. But i understand, there is so many other folks that need help, further more i am not in constant panic mode anymore. So sandy i appreciate any word you and others wrote to me each time.

I did not write, last several days, because i was in internal roller coaster, i did not wanted to be like emotional Yo-Yo, so i step back, and observe my self and my WW, without doing nothing different than i already commit to do/not do.
Douse days, i use the time to read in the forum, i have red, red....and than red something more. It was very helpful, with dealing with my WW niceness and nastiness smile

Quote:
Your W sees you watching her when she contact OM on her PC, yes? You said you did not leave the house b/c it would appear as if you are reacting. Do you feel she communicates with OM in front of you, to push your buttons and get a reaction?

Particulary, about this last time chat with OM, infront of me, there was not intentionaly. I was at place, where she was clear i am seeing OM start chat, so she has not choice, then answering. If i was in other room i think she will open other window on the PC, and will not chat. But that is this time. Last summor there was a times, when she purpusly wrote to him, just to chat and to be seen from me. Ther is a lot of history, when she do things to reach reaction from me, it depends from her emotional situation.
So answering of your question short:This time she do not did purposely, but she like very much push my buttons (when have discussion, and the things went, not in her way, she start threatening me about, how she have to found some other man to look after her, or she will have sex with the firs man she found ...and other thinks like this) in the past, year ago i was reacting and become very angry, now i just ignored or leaved with smile.

Quote:
Your plan is "dropping the rope" or "letting her go" (both the same). You do not need to be concerned what she thinks. You do not have to stay in the house when she is disrespecting you by communicating with OM in front of you. Tell her she is a disrespectful W and you do not want to be with her


Now i let her go, but i am at stage Fake It Until Make It :), my behavior, what i show, haw i am look like is that i let her go (i hope i am pretty much objective about me). Mentally i have long road to go, to be "make it" let her go.

This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.

Quote:
Tell her you do not want her to share your bed. Tell her to sleep on the couch or in another room, b/c she is disrespectful.
This one will be hard. There was 2-3 times in the past after arguments, when i staid my point about OM or/and her behavior, and she ask in angry way to not sleep at same bed with her, i told her that i will sleep in my bed, and she can sleep where she wants. So now, i think is too late to do this, also it will be questioned by the kids as well - but i will think about it..i am not refusing anything.

Quote:
Does this make sense to you? Have I confused you?

smile Sani i want to hug you, there is all sens possible. I red all of your treads here, as well as most of your coments in other thereads, i have red a lot here. So i know very cleare whot you wrote about, i understend this at emotional, psihological and bioligiacal level.
So No you are not confusing me, you keep me in right direction, and i am very great-full about it. What confuse me is my fight whit my fears, my NGS, My codependency and lo self esteem, i do not show this to anyone, but i am very clear where i am emotionally, spiritually and physically:).

Quote:
Yes, you are dropping her, but you also show respect for yourself. You show her she is not fooling you with her game of being "friends" with OM.
Not any more, i will not be fulled.

So last several days, i was very calm, when we were at home i give her all space possible, we did together house work. I was not sad/angry or cold, but more like indifferent. I did not change my behavior when she was nice or nasty, she tried several time to gild trip me about my infidelity (in passive aggressive meaner, also to gild trip me about the money i earn - this is because i do not agreed to bay things for her even she did not ask, like before)

She is out of her skin because i refuse to buy another flat (new investment) as well as i told her i will leave when our other flat is ready. Every other day she talk about what investment we can do (all about for the kids), i listen her. I do not agree that we will do it, just listen. She asked me if this is possible, i answer yes it is possible physically, and did not comment anything more. It was not time to go in discussion what must be happened before i agree to do something like that with her - she already know what must be done - so i am not going to repeated my self any more - i was telling the same thing more than 2 years, it is enough.

2 days ago, when she uses my name in sweet why, i shut her down. In the past i was OK when she was telling me in this way, now i found that when she talk to others, and start to talk about me in not very respectful way, she use this name, also when we are together and she fell more easy with me, and felt little more bossy, she use this name. So i told her to not call me this name any more. later she ask why i ask this, i answer that i do not want she to call me with this name any more. Period.

I will write more tomorrow, i hope to have time.

Many hugs Sandi
P.S. in the morning i was very down, now i am Fine
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/16/18 07:09 AM

It's good to hear from you.

Quote:
she like very much push my buttons (when have discussion, and the things went, not in her way, she start threatening me about, how she have to found some other man to look after her, or she will have sex with the firs man she found


This is no threat...... when you are dropping her. She told you this to manipulate you and keep you upset. It stops working to push your buttons when you don't get upset.

Quote:
Now i let her go, but i am at stage Fake It Until Make It :), my behavior, what i show, haw i am look like is that i let her go (i hope i am pretty much objective about me). Mentally i have long road to go, to be "make it" let her go
.

It's okay. You will get better when you realize you deserve more respect.

Quote:
This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.


If it is late, you don't have to leave, if you are not full of anger.

Quote:
This one will be hard. There was 2-3 times in the past after arguments, when i staid my point about OM or/and her behavior, and she ask in angry way to not sleep at same bed with her, i told her that i will sleep in my bed, and she can sleep where she wants. So now, i think is too late to do this, also it will be questioned by the kids as well - but i will think about it..i am not refusing anything.


You cannot force her out of the bedroom. The point is to let her know you don't want to sleep with her when she acts like a disrespectful W. This does not mean you must be the one to leave your bed. She thinks the man automatically has to sleep on the couch, just b/c she is a woman. Not so! The spouse who has done wrong sleeps on the couch. If the kids ask why she slept on the couch, she will have to deal with answering them. However, this is just a suggestion. Do what you feel is best.

Quote:
Sani i want to hug you, there is all sens possible. I red all of your treads here, as well as most of your coments in other thereads, i have red a lot here. So i know very cleare whot you wrote about, i understend this at emotional, psihological and bioligiacal level.
So No you are not confusing me, you keep me in right direction, and i am very great-full about it. What confuse me is my fight whit my fears, my NGS, My codependency and lo self esteem, i do not show this to anyone, but i am very clear where i am emotionally, spiritually and physically:).


You are very kind and encourage me a lot. ((hugs))

You will conquer these issues. How do I know? B/c you are doing what you must do, in spite of being afraid. The cowardly man feels fear and lets it paralyze him. The brave man feels fear and does what he must do. In my opinion, you are overcoming lies that has captured your mind for a long time. You listened to lies whisper in your ear about Betheoa. Don't let the lies defeat you any longer. Believe in the man you truly are.

Quote:
2 days ago, when she uses my name in sweet why, i shut her down. In the past i was OK when she was telling me in this way, now i found that when she talk to others, and start to talk about me in not very respectful way, she use this name, also when we are together and she fell more easy with me, and felt little more bossy, she use this name. So i told her to not call me this name any more. later she ask why i ask this, i answer that i do not want she to call me with this name any more. Period.


Well done! whistle
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/22/18 03:47 AM

Hi Sandi and others, i have been reading for a wail.

There was nothing new under the sun...around me.
My WW, try be nice, ask me to go out of the house have a walk or do exercise on the grass, so i agreed but not show any emotional highs...because i know why she do this ...she is not sure where i am, regarding her, and she temp check constantly, manipulate and try to put me in argument, i avoid any attempts to be succeed in to argument, or show i am commuted to her in long term. Of course i am not rood, resist any of my temptation to tell her, this or that (talk about what is wrong). I just ignore her when she try to be nasty or play pity/blame game and leave whit smile when she try to changing me in some why.

Last week she contact OM2 2 time chat for a wail, the stop contact him. She try to slow things down with me, but may be there some tension between WW and OM2.
Last week there is not any shows of not respect in front of me.

But....
This week we walk to the place where is out other flat, several times, just walk, she constantly talk about how beautiful and nice i "OUR" flat, that we pickup the best flat and so on, talk about how we can buy another flat, and other schemes how we can do more investments, how this will be very good for the kids and so on.
I listen to her, but not agreed to do nothing, just validate her as much as possible, whiteout agree to nothing.
I thought ...Should i talk with her, what she have to do in order to proceed whit her wishes about new investments...the i felt that i already told her how i will not live, so she should do the thinking and asking by her self not initiate by me.

Already WW several times, to many people, she talk that she thinks to start the investment without my knowing (if i refuse to do it, when she ask for last time - she wait to see what will be the price - if it is as low as she wont, she will book the new flat, and when the time comes she will put me in stuck situation- something like to get pregnant) - So my question how to address this, i our last argument she was telling me that she saved money to book the flat to surprise me, so o know this from her - but she talk this to almost every one around her, that is disrespect and rebellion.

So if she start talking about this - should i remind her, about i am going to leave after 2-3 months, and is we not going in same direction we should not do any investment together?

Quote:
This is no threat...... when you are dropping her. She told you this to manipulate you and keep you upset. It stops working to push your buttons when you don't get upset.
Yes, i us to handle my self very well, last times. In the past i thought i must react in some way, now if i am truly "drop the rope", i have to be calm about this, not funny or happy, but calm and collected. Of course it is difficult to listen how she have to found other men to care about her (because i will left her), my heart broke, because more then 5 years she did not behave with me as woman even as wife, but are willing (have to do), because i will not provide to her. I see some very nasty/punishing behavior in this. How ever, if she is able to be woman to other man, well lets be (she clime that i kill her as woman, so she will never fill love and trust to any one, as well as be sexual with any one), i believed this for 3 years after my confession about my infidelity, but after her crush to OM 1 and now to OM2, i do not believe. That is her filings thoughts about me, so if she think that i will provide to her, and take her emotional need from elsewhere - i will not do it.

Quote:
It's okay. You will get better when you realize you deserve more respect.

Of course, i hope this to be soon. I just hope to be calm and collected, not to be aggressive (NGS)

Quote:
Quote:
This last time when she aswering to him and chat a litlle, i was redy to go out, but was late, i tought it will be beeter to go sleep to fresh in the morning. What is done -is done, if there next time i will go out. This evening right after i went to bed, she came 5 min later.

If it is late, you don't have to leave, if you are not full of anger.

I am really capable to handle my self very well, my big struggles are when i am not sure (what to do), if i must show dissatisfaction or be calm and collected, that is my struggles, because of this i ask so many questions to you, to be ready how to behave when the time comes.

Quote:
You will conquer these issues. How do I know? B/c you are doing what you must do, in spite of being afraid. The cowardly man feels fear and lets it paralyze him. The brave man feels fear and does what he must do. In my opinion, you are overcoming lies that has captured your mind for a long time. You listened to lies whisper in your ear about Betheoa. Don't let the lies defeat you any longer. Believe in the man you truly are.

Thanks Sani for the sportive words...i do not buy the lies, the lies are barometer for me if she come to M or not. In my opinion if she start to do any work on her, this will be the firs one..

So i really need support here, what to do when she behave as nothing is changed..talk about future plans about new investment...how/when i worn her about not to do the stupidity to book this new investment when i do not agreed on, because in this case she/we will loos money (if i do not support the investment- booking price will be lost-it is around 2 moths of he salary)

So any thoughts an suggestion are welcome.
I feel very down this week, limbo is difficult place to live, i am trying to survive this by taking day by day. In my interaction i am easy going, not doing any pursuing, she is the one pursuit me (yesterday she ask to massage her back - i did for awhile), but as by guard is up all the time, i see every thing as manipulation and temp check.

so ...will write soon.

P.S. last week, i have red a lot, here in the forum, so i have question ....my WW have not real EA (where they, say i love you, or consider planes to live together in future and things like this), but my WW have all signs to be/where in limerance with OM1 and OM2, as well as flirting with OM2 (by chat), with OM1 i do not have Intel if there was flirting as with OM2. So my question is ..is this change something in my approach to the situation..or i must behave like she is full blown WW.
hugs
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/22/18 04:55 AM

You are leaving your W b/c she is disrespectful to you, her H. She lies, schemes, deceives, refuses you sex, and flirts and has EA with OM. Her treatment to you is horrible, and she laughs behind your back. It does not really matter whether or not she has said ILY to OM.........it is still an emotional affair.


I did not know your W knew about the flat. So, she believes both of you will live in the new flat? Does your W have any legal hold on it? My advice is to make sure she cannot snatch it from you, when she realizes you are leaving.

Quote:
Already WW several times, to many people, she talk that she thinks to start the investment without my knowing (if i refuse to do it, when she ask for last time - she wait to see what will be the price - if it is as low as she wont, she will book the new flat, and when the time comes she will put me in stuck situation- something like to get pregnant) - So my question how to address this, i our last argument she was telling me that she saved money to book the flat to surprise me, so o know this from her - but she talk this to almost every one around her, that is disrespect and rebellion.


I am confused and don't understand. What do you mean "book" the flat?

How could she put you in a stuck situation? If you aren't having sex with her, she can't get pregnant with your child.

This is a situation you need advice from your lawyer or financial officer. I cannot give advice about those matters.

((hugs))
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/22/18 05:39 AM

Quote:
I did not know your W knew about the flat. So, she believes both of you will live in the new flat? Does your W have any legal hold on it? My advice is to make sure she cannot snatch it from you, when she realizes you are leaving.


This apartment were we bought 2 years ago, we have two flat. Last argument i told i will move there when is ready to living here.

Quote:
I am confused and don't understand. What do you mean "book" the flat?


I am talking about she will reserve the apartment by paying some money in advance, to take lower price. So if she do this, we will have to pay for this flat in long term, or we will loose this "book" money. About pregnant this is joke. I wanted to say i will be in situation that her move is done (booking the flat for baying) so i have to accept or to loose money.
is it more clear now?
Sorry about my English
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 04/22/18 06:45 AM

Okay, yes it's more clear. smile
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/03/18 04:31 AM

Hope you are okay. Can you give us an update?
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/04/18 08:51 PM

Quote:
Hope you are okay


OMG Sandi, every time when i felt on the bottom, think about post here to have your support (but did not yet wrote here in the forum, because i am not in tact of my emotion and thoughts), and you come here and say "Hi", you are so much to me.
I felt so much worm about, there is some one who are interested/care in your well being, without anything in return.

Quote:
Can you give us an update?

yes there is a lot of update, and i am going to divide to different post:
1. Facts (what has happened - as objective as possible).
2. My feelings, thoughts and vents.
3. My further plans, i will ask questions, about how to proceed.

I feel blessed to have you Sandi.
To be continuation...
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 01:25 AM

Quote:
yes there is a lot of update, and i am going to divide to different post:
1. Facts (what has happened - as objective as possible).


As you write in my lasts post, we have been in civil interaction, on daily bases. I have capt be aloof, and no show any pursuit. After WW last chat with OM2 (i have wrote about) there was NC between them (NC was about 20 days NC between WW and OM2), it is look like Pursuit / distancing game between them. Normally my WW can resist 3-4 days without NC, then initiate. Sometime OM2 initiate contact, the most of the cases OM2 initiate contact when it is time to haircut (normally each 14 days). There was/is situation when OM2 initiate contacts, when my WW play aloof.
So during those 20 days, i was starting to relax, emotionally slide back (hope UP), but did not show. I accept her invitations about walk around our block, when several times to the place were is our new flat. Each time we were to our new flat place, she was talking about how nice the flat it is, how we should buy another flat,....and thing like this. I just listen, be very aloof, validate but not agree i am going to have plans with her, buying new flat.
We also did exercise (material art) with the kids and/or only two of use in front of the block.
My approach to her was like annoying sister.
During those 20 days she try to bully/disrespect me in front of the kids, or alone, i call her writhe there 90% of the time, 10% just ignore.
She tried several time to bite me, involve in arguments, i ignore her.

There was several times, when we were with some neighbors at the evenings, her approach to me was very friendly. She did not try to disrespects/joke on me in front of the others (like last summer). When she start to not pay attention that i am there, i just left to walk around, and she start to looking about me.

My observation show, that when i become funny with others man/woman and especially other woman's, she become very curios, and start showing i an her man, body language or/and in conversation. She become very jealousy when some one appreciate me or/and show i have some value/skills.

During thous days, whit OM2 so much in the picture she look for my company/attention. There was not calls from my side, and few from her. She had some conversation with her friends, about how she want to invest in new flat and i am agents that, how she think to invest without my knowledge/agreement, and after 6-12months when the real payment will become, i will agreed as post fact.

So that i more or less, the good part.
because i know OM2 come to her each 14 days (haircut), i start to think when it would happened. OM2 become late with 6 days (so i have started to think, that my WW was setting some end of contact with OM2), smile but not.
The good think was, this is not for first time so i do not bring much hope about WW starts do the work.
4 days ago,OM2 FB her, about haircut for the next day. I happened next to me, so she felt that i know they texts. It was in the evening, we were smoking on the balcony, i shut down my self, she try to small talk, but i did not engage (just answer yes/no). I observe her body language, so she was worried/thing (she was know what is suppose to happened next days). This day we both had free day, we spend a good pleasant day, until OM2 text.

Next day, i had free day she had to go on work. I was known she will met OM2, she was suspect that i knew. I did not wand to see her how she will, make her beautiful, put a dress and all other make up thinks for OM2. Write after i wake up, i peeper my self for leaving (go to place from where i can take very good natural water for drinking, put in bottles and took at home).
WW - ask me am i go out,
me- sad to take water.
WW -ask why so early
me-well be hotter later
WW-why do not take the kids
me-ask the kids and they prefer to stay at home

Then, i said bey and left.

Later, OM2 was with her, she pompously made free 2-3 hours, after OM2 coming, to have time to be/talk with him. (she loos money, when she do this). There conversation, was not so much flirty as their FB chat talk about/her/his life/dais/events. I did not cover to listen all of it, but she mention it me only two times, she talk about her marital art exam (it will happened soon) and in relation of this, she talk about me. He ask her, am i steal go to exercise, she said yes, OM2 told her that he thought i will quit after a wail (so here i found out that she told him, that i join in this exercise, in attempt to control her).
To be frank - that is true. I become exercise with her and the kids, because of being needy to be next to her all the time. Later i start enjoying the sport, and become better and better.
When they talk about, what she will do next days, she said that will stay at home and rest, told him she do not know am I will be there (that i have a lot of work-and told him about my involvement in a big project at work).
So at the evening of this day, OM start FB chat with her, the chat was flirty, about going together, here and there, to take her on sea beach, and think like this. It looks like they were make planes, on the line between make planes / seeing what other side will agreed. Here i have to say that there is huge difference how they interact in presents and when they FB chat.
About this chat, she could be not so flirty, known i am at home and she left her FB open on her PC, the pc is in the milled of our living room, so there is 100% chance to me seeing what they chat.

After OM2 left after 3 hours talk with her, she called me.
She ask what i am doing.I told her - do things around
She ask about the kids, i was in hurry to cut the convo. She felt it. In fact their chat become later after she call me.

After her chat, i was devastated, angry all my buttons was pushed. I start thinking to write in the forum, but there was no time some one to answer me. So i started to read, in hope to found what to do, when she come home.
I was in hurry to handle my self how to handle the evening and the near future.

There was not so much option, looking in the past months. She know that i will not live like this any more, and ...nothing different. So i decide to live, when she come home after work. When she come home i go out (because of the kids i had to wait for her), we met on the stairs in front of the block, i was talking on the phone (work related):
WW ask if there is emergency at work so i need to leave,
Me - i told her that i am going out (for a walk),
WW - she told to wait for her to change the clothes, and go out together, spend time with some neighbors out there. (her face shown some worries
Me - I answer he that i do not wont, turn and left (her face become even more worried)

So i spend 5 hours until 1 am, in the car reading the forum, and thinking what to do. I went home, she was asleep.
In the morning, after my coffee, i left for work. She did not talk to me, me either. When i left (50 min earlier), i did not say bey.
When i go back from work, i sow she continuous chat with OM2 flirt even more hard, about traveling with him (emotionally) for now, as she said.
So i have decide to not go home, to found place to stay until my flat will be ready for living there (2-3 months from now). I have call to my friend and ask him, for help to found the place to stay.
At the evening i relay GAL for little with him. There is 2 nights i did not go home. Yesterday i call my kids, to see haw are they, when they ask if i come home, i answer i have work to do, and i do not know when (later i will ask, what to tel the kids)
There is not contact between me and ww since i left.

Yesterday, WW talk to her GF, about WW situation.
WW told her that she suspect me to having OW, that she do not believe me when i told her i have to stay at work (last time when i do not come home, 2 week ago - when she went out with OM2 to eat cake) - i did not told her i stay at work, i told her i do not want to be home, and will go home when the kids are there (they were at her parents).
So yesterday i told i am at work, to the kids not to her.
She admit to her GF, the she start this flirting and contentious as rebellion on me. WW told that last year, when OM2, gave her flowers for her birthday, WW ask to put this flower in the ground in front of our block (at this time i did not know, this flowers were from OM2), i helped her and look after for this flowers. So the flower start to grow, but suddenly they died.
WW told to her GF, that she suspect me to kill the flowers, i fell so much resentment, and because of this she starts this flirty (or whatever behavior with OM2), and will not give up.
Then WW told, her that, i punish her with my behavior, not come home (because of her interaction with him). WW show some from the FB chat, and told her that this was push my button and i punish her for that. WW told her GF, that there is nothing, just flirt, and if she wanted to do something she will hide, told her that she did not hide this from me from the begging. Of course, she did not told her about everything, just put me in controlling husband state, as well as i am cheating to punish her.

The last i heard from their convo was, that my wife told GF, that WW was telling me 2 moth ago, if i need reason to leave her, she will do PA with some one (to be easy for me), because her relation with OM2, is only friends, with whom she flirt for fun.

I will continuous in the next post.
I feel i need guidance, i need support from now one very much. I need advice how to handle the situations from now one. So place check on me often.
At the moment i do not have any hope about WW go out of the fog. There is all she need disrespect, resentment, rebellion and OM2.
Soon i waiting ww to stars call/text me, to guild trip me, threatening me, manipulating me. So i will need your help how to handle the things.

In the next posts i will write how i feel now, and some possible scenarios/situations/questions what to do. There is pattern in WW behavior, so i can predict some actions from her.
Sandi i need you, very much now.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 06:51 AM

Quote:
2. My feelings, thoughts and vents.


Now i am feeling very low. The things got worst.
I feel i do not have home anymore where to come. As i said above, my WW punishing me intentionally (or justify her self)to develop what she have with OM2, because she think that i kill her roses from OM2 last year.
So there is no wife, there is no woman i have to wait for.
I really need support about, staying on my way to be separate from now on. I do not want to talk to WW, i do not have anything to speak about. Every thing have been sad. I do not want to confront her about, what i know by my Intel/snooping.
I really do not know how she can, go back to normal...ever. I do not want see her at this point, last month, when we behave almost nice each other, it was like huge lie. For me was difficult to look at her.
During this last 20 days, i sow in me "Stockholm syndrome" i felt, slide forgetting about the reality ....
I do not want live like this any more, i just have to decide how to proceed with the kids.
It is very difficult, my codependency telling me i have to go home, with the kids ....but my new self telling me there is only misery at home. I leave in this misery for long time. I do not deserve this anymore, only way to stop this is to separate my self from WW.
For very long time i lived, in this limbo and try to connection with WW, and she used for cake eating. last 2 moths after my firs leave the home for a week, i looked at my self and said "i do not wont to live like this any more".
I was a full for so long, thanks Sandi .... to open my eyes, in the past i take any temp check like, her attempt to reconciliation or second thought, and the pattern was, when she sow i am commuted, she go back where she was. Not this time. Last 2 months i have slowly become more confident in breaking the loop, that i have lived for so long.

sorry about this venting, i know it is a mess.

next post, i am going to ask some questions and advise, how to handle next..part of my journey
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 06:55 AM

Quote:
During those 20 days she try to bully/disrespect me in front of the kids, or alone, i call her writhe there 90% of the time, 10% just ignore.
She tried several time to bite me, involve in arguments, i ignore her.


Good job!

Quote:
There was several times, when we were with some neighbors at the evenings, her approach to me was very friendly. She did not try to disrespects/joke on me in front of the others (like last summer). When she start to not pay attention that i am there, i just left to walk around, and she start to looking about me.


It's good that she is respectful in front of your neighbors.

Quote:
My observation show, that when i become funny with others man/woman and especially other woman's, she become very curios, and start showing i an her man, body language or/and in conversation. She become very jealousy when some one appreciate me or/and show i have some value/skills.


Yes, this is typical behavior of a WW. She is possessive or territorial. She doesn't want to be your W, but she doesn't want anyone else having you. It is a very selfish type of jealousy.

Quote:
During thous days, whit OM2 so much in the picture she look for my company/attention


The WW will use the H as her Plan B (backup plan) when she and OM (Plan A) are not as close.

I agree with your decision to stay with a friend until your flat is ready. I want to caution you about finances. Protect your finances so she cannot do damage. I don't know how her percentage in the flat might leave you vulnerable. Some women are mean and will do things to harm the finances of the H.

She will tell her friends and family that you have another woman, in order to make herself appear as a victim. Don't worry about it, but expect it. This is typical behavior of the WW to make her H look like the bad guy. You know the truth, and don't have to prove anything to anyone.

She will pursue you. She will find excuses to ask to go to the house. She will want to know where you are and what you are doing at all times.......b/c she will feel she is losing control of you. As long as you can be reached by phone in case of an emergency......she does not have to know everything you do, your plans, your thoughts, or your feelings.

((hugs))
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 07:31 AM

Quote:
During this last 20 days, i sow in me "Stockholm syndrome" i felt, slide forgetting about the reality


Yes, I agree. You have been co-dependent on your marriage/children. It may be challenging to start a new life, but you will be fine. Surround yourself with nice people who treat you well. Why stay around people who don't treat you well?

Once you leave the home, don't go back there to stay with the kids. Pick them up, but don't go inside the house. Take them with you, or take them somewhere to play. You need to make an emotional break with that house b/c it triggers past memories and emotions. I think your W will want you to sit with the kids at the house, cook meals, etc. don't ever start doing it. Once you separate, you don't go back into the house, except to get your belongings.

When you are leaving, assure the children you are not abandoning them. Explain that you have another place for them to stay with you. Explain that you and their mother have to live apart, but that you are still their father, love them, and will be in their lives. Perhaps, having a list of activities......or letting them discuss with you some things they want the three of you to do this summer, would help them realize you will be there. Later, when they have bedrooms, they will enjoy decorating how they like it.

You don't have to apologize for venting on the board. Your W tried to reduce you to a bug, but you are a good man, and a good father. Once you remove yourself from her environment and control.......you will grow stronger very rapidly. I have learned it is very important to like ourselves. You are going to like yourself a lot, once you get away from her clutches.

You are beginning to have self value, and you realize you deserve to be happy, respected, and treated well. You realize you don't have to live this way......and you don't want to live this life.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 10:47 AM

Thank you Sandi, being next to me now...
Quote:
3. My further plans, i will ask questions, about how to proceed.


As i already wore, staid in friend hows (the house is empty), next week i will move in another place. Day before yesterday, i went to home to take some clothes, i pick the time where there was no one. I do not know if WW found out if i take clothes, she do not know if i come home any time soon or not. I did not talk to her, yet.

First time when i left for a week (day before i back to home), she ask how the financing were going, how will support her with the kids. we agreed to pay some home bills, the sport exercise and her flue (she drive the kids to school) on her work why. I will keep this agreement for now, to see how the tings will go on.

Tomorrow i want to talk to the kids, to see how are they. If my WW, want to talk to me in front of the, what to do. It will be hurting to den if i refuse to talk to her ...they are not suspect nothing. If we speak with WW, and she ask me where i am, when will go home ...what to answer ....i am thinking of answering
"i will stay out of home until the flat is ready to move there"...
If she wont to see each other to talk to what we are going to do and how....should i met her or it is better to communicate by text.. Should i initiate text her, telling her that i will not go back to home, ask her to think how to deal with the kids....telling them, how/when to see them and so on...regarding her convo to her GF, she wait when i will go home, she do not expect me to stay at another place long therm. She is very convinced there is infidelity from my par now. She was telling to the GF, she not going to tell about our situation to her parents, in her words this will kill them....
can i wait, before telling the kids about "US", that we are going to be separate, to move in the new flat, where they can start recognizance like their new home.
Al this is very scary, i feel so much gild, when listening how she talking to her GF, it is look like so much like WAW, lived in abusive and neglected marriage, GF asked why WW was ton found OM and divorce me in those last 5 years, after my infidelity ...WW explains that she was not filing like woman any more or/and no one did not put her to feel like that way. WW was telling to GF, that she reared that not kick me out/divorce when i convince my infidelity. She was telling that she gave me chance to prove my self, and now she is glad that she do not fall to me again, because i showing her that i am not changed.... So i am a bad guy.

If WW ask me to go back at home, and ask me about my conditions ...what to say? How to stand my self UP, after so many years being, easy going husband (most of the time (nice guy) and last 5 years doormat, except may be last 6 months (when i become more and more standing about my self).
If i look back 2 years ago, when i found out for the first time she have interest in OM, the change is huge. In her and in me.

What to say, if me and WW talk, about our situation, and she asks why i am living?
last time when we talk, i told her that that i do not want to live withe her, because of her behavior (mostly being flirty with OM2), she fight me write there that i finding justification to leave, because she do not doing any wrong. She will clime this, in any further convo ...i suppose.

Sandi i have question.
If just assume, OM1 and OM2 was/are really only friend for her, and she is just flirty with OM2 (not being in limerance), and her behavior is to make me mad. Live like roommates for so long....should i do the same stand up for me, leave, and not go back until there is 100% commitment to me as Man, Father and Husband.

Now i expect her Disrespect/resentment and rebellion to hit the fans. I expect WW to do "Watch me", like you said Sandi, in one of your posts (in your mind "Watch me" to your H), But in my case it will not be underground, it will be put in my eyes, in order to hit my buttons.

Last year, i am seeing her to feel pleasure when i suffer.
So i am going to sleep for a wail. From now on, it will be real "handling" day by day, hour by hour.

Will write soon.
(Hugs)
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/05/18 01:42 PM

Quote:
Tomorrow i want to talk to the kids, to see how are they. If my WW, want to talk to me in front of the, what to do. It will be hurting to den if i refuse to talk to her ...they are not suspect nothing.


Don't discuss anything with WW in front of the kids. Tell the kids to go to their rooms, or go outside, but don't discuss the situation with your W in their presence. Then, talk to the kids and tell them you will see them soon. Tell them you love them and will not stop being their father.

Quote:
"i will stay out of home until the flat is ready to move there"...


Be sure you see your kids. Just don't stay with them at the home, to be a convenience to your WW. Understand?

Quote:
If we speak with WW, and she ask me where i am, when will go home ...what to answer ....i am thinking of answering


Unless you fear harrssament, I think you should tell her you are leaving her. Has your legal advisor told you something differently? I don't know the law there, but you have done nothing wrong. Just tell her you are done with the M.

Quote:
If she wont to see each other to talk to what we are going to do and how....should i met her or it is better to communicate by text..


Suggest to her you communicate through email. If you must meet face to face, it has to be a public place, like a coffee shop.

Quote:
Should i initiate text her, telling her that i will not go back to home, ask her to think how to deal with the kids....telling them,


I think you should tell her you have left her and won't be back, except to get your things. I don't know how she will react, or what she may tell the kids. If she threatens to make you out to be the bad guy........you can remind her you know the truth about her 2 other men. Tell her you can tell the kids that you've separated, together. Tell her she can propose a visitation schedule for the kids.

Quote:
regarding her convo to her GF,


Maybe at another time, but not now. Just break the news you are gone. You are leaving due to:

1. Her disrespectful behavior toward her H and the M.
2. Her having two boyfriends.
3. Her withholding sex for the past five years.
4. Her refusal to work on the MR.

Try to stick to these main issues, without going into what you know about her conversations with GF's. Just state your reasons if she asks, but don't argue. You don't have to prove what you know. In fact, you don't have to give her reasons, if you don't want to talk about it.

Quote:
she wait when i will go home, she do not expect me to stay at another place long therm. She is very convinced there is infidelity from my par now. She was telling to the GF, she not going to tell about our situation to her parents, in her words this will kill them....


Who cares! She was not thinking about her parents when she was on OM#1 & 2! She says things like this to control you and make you feel duty bound to stay with her. If she gets ugly with you or threatens, then you can tell her parents the truth.

Quote:
can i wait, before telling the kids about "US", that we are going to be separate, to move in the new flat, where they can start recognizance like their new home.


Unless she is a much better mother than she is a wife, the kids will know before you have a chance to tell them. I suspect she will react in anger and tell them......but IDK her. You can still see your kids! Don't wait until you have the flat completed before spending time with your kids.

Quote:
Al this is very scary, i feel so much gild, when listening how she talking to her GF, it is look like so much like WAW, lived in abusive and neglected marriage,


Why do you feel guilty, when you know the truth? I tell you why. B/c you have been the victim of abuse. She has beat you down. She is an abuser, and she isolated you from your family b/c she wanted to enjoy watching you suffer from her abuse. You have believed the lies of your abuser.

No guilt, when you know the truth, okay?

Quote:
She was telling that she gave me chance to prove my self, and now she is glad that she do not fall to me again, because i showing her that i am not changed.... So i am a bad guy.


Your WW is a liar. I want you to stop listening to her conversations, b/c you believe what she says! cry She lies, to make herself sound good. She tries to fool everyone. She tries to make a fool out of you. No more!

Quote:
If WW ask me to go back at home, and ask me about my conditions ...what to say


You tell her, "No!" Tell her it is not her concern.

Quote:
If WW ask me to go back at home, and ask me about my conditions ...what to say? How to stand my self UP, after so many years being, easy going husband (most of the time (nice guy) and last 5 years doormat, except may be last 6 months (when i become more and more standing about my self).


Would your friend give you emotional support? How much have you told him about her abuse? You need somebody to go with you, or stand by your side when you have to deal with her, until you get past this initial part of leaving. But if he can't, then you can do it alone. What is the worst she can do?

Don't tell her where you are staying or your conditions. It is none of her business.

Quote:
What to say, if me and WW talk, about our situation, and she asks why i am living?
last time when we talk, i told her that that i do not want to live withe her, because of her behavior (mostly being flirty with OM2), she fight me write there that i finding justification to leave, because she do not doing any wrong. She will clime this, in any further convo ...i suppose.


Was she physically fighting you? Don't discuss OM and her flirty behavior, if she gets violent.

Tell her not to be concerned how you are living. Tell her you do not want to be with her. You do not have to prove anything to her. You do not have to present your case to her.
You do not have to win justification from her. Just say you don't love her b/c she wants to punish you. Most men would leave b/c she refused sex for 5 years! She has been a bad wife. You do not have to defend yourself. She should be the one to be defensive!

You can do this! You are stronger than you think. You have truth on your side. If she threatens violence, take the police to get your personal belongings from the home, and/or to see your kids.

((hugs))
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/06/18 07:37 AM

Hi Sandi,
Quote:
Don't discuss anything with WW in front of the kids.

I have never do, last years when she become, quilting me/argue in front of them, i shut her down/or end make it to them, not being witness.

Quote:
Be sure you see your kids. Just don't stay with them at the home, to be a convenience to your WW. Understand?

I understand, this will be very strange to them, i will do it any way.

Quote:
Unless you fear harassment, I think you should tell her you are leaving her.

OMG Sandi, yes i fear. 5 years ago, by this approach she put me to convince my affair, then the hell come down....the years prior that looks like heaven. I will face the fear ...

Quote:
Suggest to her you communicate through email. If you must meet face to face, it has to be a public place, like a coffee shop.

I have to use FB, she did not use mail. Meeting will try to be outside, not in home.

Quote:
I think you should tell her you have left her and won't be back, except to get your things. I don't know how she will react, or what she may tell the kids.

At the moment she is in rage, after some days, me not be at home, and not telling her where i am. If i told her i living her, she will go ballistic.
All this 5 years, she kept my infidelity out of the kids, BUT Many times, she maid biter comments, or talking about my infidelity in front of them, they were lithe, but....so she switch to real b*itch, when got emotional....very short temper. She can be calm, ONLY when she have to take something from the situation. The example: when i was confessed mi infidelity, she ask me in very calm and understanding way, to tel her everything, and that will be our new beginning of R and M, so i believed her.....i fell like a full, because i was so much honest ...

Quote:
If she threatens to make you out to be the bad guy........you can remind her you know the truth about her 2 other men.

She already did, two of our neighbors her GF, already know, that she suppose me to cheating, that i cheat in the past, that i guild her about her chat with OM2 (and they are just casual friends), that she keep this relationship with OM2, only to punish me - b/c she know i reed her chat, she told them if i wont back home to be with her she will punish me very hard IDK (may will have PA?), how horrible i am, how she staid with me after my infidelity - but me humiliate her about OM2, how she did not give any other man than me to touch her ....alot more in the line
Do you know what, one of this neighbor woman was GF of OM1. She definitely was in limerance with OM1, him was friendly to her, may be flirty when i was not there.

Quote:
Tell her you can tell the kids that you've separated, together. Tell her she can propose a visitation schedule for the kids.

We already discuses this, i our last M talk, month ago. on this talk i told her i do not want to live with her/like that, because i feel disrespected and not satisfied. I told her i am going to move in our new flat, when is ready. In the meanwhile, i will stay at home (i told her there was 2 years living like this, so i will handle 3 months more). She test me, keep NC for 20 days, then blow up. So my boundary kick me out of home.I told her, will tel the kids, we are separating because, we are not able to make each other satisfied by being together.
About the kids, i think she will think before doing something stupid. She is very caring mother (when she is in right metal state).

Quote:

1. Her disrespectful behavior toward her H and the M.

Talk to others, about our problems. Make fun of me behind my back. Gild trip me about my past mistakes.

Quote:
2. Her having two boyfriends.

Only emotional connected.
With OM1, she was sms/talk, see with him for coffee, spend a lot of time with hime (he was neighbor), she tried to make him my friend, she looks like schoolgirl around him, she was in limerance, she was known i do not approve, she maid me suffer with pleasure. It lasted
6 months, OM1 dump WW, b/c his GF found some sms. I know about this, bay observation, Intel and convos b/w WW and GF, that she had a crush about OM1
very soon after that come
OM2, he is WW haircut client.
Up to now i more that one year, daily chat, Go out for coffee, meal, WW last summer was 2 -3 times per week at his place for coffee. WW shown limerance, yesterday i found out, that she began so much into him because of me, and she do flirt intentionally by FB, because she know i will read.

Quote:
3. Her withholding sex for the past five years.

She cut any sex, love touch, kiss, hugs - everything - just room mates.
Quote:
4. Her refusal to work on the MR.

She said there is not MR, we are separated, she cannot work on something that is not there any more, she is done ....BUT in the past at the beginning of OM2, she pushes me when i will leave her, because she do not recon to MR, i was telling her i am sating for the kids, all my attempts to stand up my self to not like her Friendship with OM2, was busted (do what you want, but think about the kids, we are just friend, we are separated, i staid when you had real affair).
From 5 years she is full of resentment.

Quote:
Try to stick to these main issues, ...but don't argue

I will not argue, at all. I want woman who will try to make me feel good and allow me to do the same for her.

Quote:
Who cares! She was not thinking about her parents

To be homes i really do not care, i know that how i living now is harmful to me mentally.

Quote:
Unless she is a much better mother than she is a wife, the kids will know before you have a chance to tell them.

I think she will behave like real mother ...

Quote:
Why do you feel guilty, when you know the truth? I tell you why. B/c you have been the victim of abuse. She has beat you down. She is an abuser, and she isolated you from your family b/c she wanted to enjoy watching you suffer from her abuse. You have believed the lies of your abuser.

This Sandi is true about mot of our relation sheep.
because of lack of sex in our M, i was addict to porn, when she found out (did not tell-util 5 years ago), she become more abusive.
Now i do not have porn problems.

Quote:
Would your friend give you emotional support?...is the worst she can do?

No i do not have such a friend, you Sandi give mi emotional support, if i am convinced that i am doing right thing, i will not have problem to handle whatever it is come.
That is my biggest issue.
The worst ting, may be she do sex with someone and let me know. She is the person that want to pay back.

Quote:
Was she physically fighting you? Don't discuss OM and her flirty behavior, if she gets violent.

No physically not ever, me either
No, I do not want to discus her behavior or OM1/OM2, last R talk month ago, i told her that i will not be with woman that accept behavior like this as normal and nothing wrong. Period

Quote:
You can do this! You are stronger than you think. You have truth on your side. If she threatens violence, take the police to get your personal belongings from the home, and/or to see your kids.

Thank you Sandi, being next to me..
I do not see problem for now to go home take, what i need. The tings are not escalated for now. WW comment to GF if i not go home (aka leave) she will push the thing to divorce very fast ....in the end i am "let her go", i am not detached, i suffer about her comments, but now i can see my situation more clear......

Today i spoke to the kids, they were very happy, they were on picnic with neighbors. I told them i have work to do and not going home. Talk with them to see them tomorrow for a wail.

I am going tomorrow morning to text my WW:
Wife, as i told last time, i am not going to live like this any more.
Until the flat will be ready to move, i will stay out.
We will keep the financial aspect we agreed last time, as support the kids. When the flat is ready we will discuss finance's again.
What is your opinion about, what to tell the kids. Could we keep my staying out like work time, until the flat is ready, the to telling them we are going to leave separate.
I have spoke to the kids to see them today (tomorrow), what time will be OK.

That is the text i wont to send, what is your opinion. I do not explain why ...b/c i already told her that i do not wont live like this form more than one year, and during this year she gradually increase the bit.......if i told her that something relay upset me emotionally she will do double of it, only when she will loose something, she can back off for a wail, ones she reach what she need she is back on the track.
Now she will loose my support and everything come with me, she is not looks like to change her mind, so i expect to be very nasty when pay back.

wire soon
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/06/18 08:29 AM

Quote:
The worst ting, may be she do sex with someone and let me know. She is the person that want to pay back.


Is that the very worst thing she can do to hurt you? Tell me why this would hurt? It is your pride or ego? Surely you do not want this cruel woman, do you? You are making a free choice to leave on your own power. She can not harm you by having sex with another person. She only harms herself.

Please, please stop snooping on her conversations. It is destroying you! You believe her lies. You believe she is the monster under your bed. She is nothing but a terrible abuser. Is there a shelter or counseling center for people in abusive relationships? I beg you to see a counselor, immediately. Get their help and advice in how to move forward. They live locally, and know better what resources are available for you. You must have emotional support and they could be there to support you through this ordeal.

Quote:
WW comment to GF if i not go home (aka leave) she will push the thing to divorce very fast ....in the end i am "let her go", i am not detached, i suffer about her comments, but now i can see my situation more clear......


You suffer b/c you have been the silent listener in your W's conversations. Please stop listening. Her talk to others can not harm you. But you must stop listening. You are addicted to the snooping.

Quote:
What is your opinion about, what to tell the kids. Could we keep my staying out like work time, until the flat is ready, the to telling them we are going to leave separate


I am not sure I understand why you want to wait until the flat is ready to tell them you are separated. If your W agrees, then that is your decision. I just worry about you not spending enough time with them during the next three months. I worry about you staying with them in the home. But it is your decision to make.....not mine, okay? This is your life and your children. I only give you emotional support where I can.

((hugs)). Please take care of yourself.
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/07/18 07:44 AM

Hi Sandi,
thank you, being caring of me.
I call on phone about abuse (emergent calling for people in abuse situation), but there was not understanding.
They call me, to separate or go to counseling.
They did nothing about talk to me. does not matter. I will be ok.

So i have text my wife;

me-yesterday spoke with the kids, to see them today.
I do not want to no tell them truth, where i am (been at work). What you think about it?

WW-The decision to lie them is your, do not put me in this..
give me the divorce papers.

me-if you hurry about D file by your self.
Last time when we spoke, we talk to tell them, that we are not able to feel each other happy.

WW-Do not heart my kids
Live as you wish
Cheap trick

Me-They are my kids as well, i do not want heart them.
do not attack me, this approach have to gone.

WW-Stay where you are, and be happy with HER
do not touch my kids

Me-When i come will call, to see them and walk around for a wail.
Think about what you want. I have told you, what i want to tel you.

WW-your word, do not have value, you lie
i think nothing
do not clean your conscience, with the kids

Me-I will not live like this anymore
i will call to the kids, to talk when to see them

WW-i do not tell you how to live
i was very young when you decide to live as you wish
do not put us (WW and kids) in your decisions.

Me-OK, thous type of convos, we already done a lot of them, and there is nothing positive in long term from the convos

WW-you start this convo
i told you do not abuses my kids

Me-when i see them will tell, me have to stay at work long term. When the flat is ready , we will talk again

WW-Why do not tell them the troth, not a lye as always

Me-do not attack me
I am telling you the trout from year, you did not listen

WW-haha i know the trout from longer than you,i listened to you,and you even showed me the trout.

Me- stop whit the BS, i am done to listen BS
When to see the kids

(here she wanted to bring the kids, to the place where i staid. She asked where i live now, how much i paid and much other things. I answered very short, of he questions.

Ме - I will come at 5PM

WW-i will walk out, to not disturb you,i have made special bred for you, it will be for goodbay

Me-i will not come home, will met kids out side

WW-your D8 sow our chat, now i will going to tell them everything, i will never forgive you what you have done on us.

She call me, and told me that she tell the kids that we are separated. She was tell them everything about my infidelity about

When i sow the kids, i ask them what they know, they sad every thing, i ask them do they know why i leaving home, they say yes about mom chat with OM2 (she tell them OM2 is not even a friend, just client).
So i just said, that i see the thing different. I did not ask anything more, i did not was teling them about OM1, or other things.
I will live like this.

When i come back, i send kids to home did not enter.

later WW text me:
ww- I hope, you now respect your self more (as i leave her)
The kids are not OK
You have destroyed this family, be more wise in future.

Me-Do no be offensive
WW - i am not offensive
WW - whay you do not meet me when come with the kids
Me- i have nothing to say to you, everything have been said, from me and from you.

So Sandi, you were right, she went to tell them before me, she tell them tricky trout, maybe even lies (i am not going to ask the kids what WW tell them). She was preparing meal for me (in the past, when she want to show affection and caring, made such a hand made bred). This time i do not take this temp check.


Now i have kind of relief of my self, part of my fear was gone. After so much listening of WW convos, i relay do not want come to her never. I could not believe her, ever to want to be my real woman.

My S10 ask me why i cheat on my Wife, i do not haw to answer. I know why (i do not justify, i know what kick me to be WH,), i just do not know should i talk to him about this at this age.

I am OK. This was relay hard, and of course, there is no why back.
I respect my self doing this, instead of staying at home and to be punish with coldness for the rest of my life, because my past mistakes (i really regret and apologize)
Write soon
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/08/18 03:16 PM

Quote:
Is that the very worst thing she can do to hurt you? Tell me why this would hurt?

I know it is not healthy to take it so deep, but all our M, i have supper to not have her sexual as i would be normal. But in the end of the day, i will handle.

My wife, told the kids, all about my infidelity and a lot more lies or trickle truth, and almost nothing of what she was doing. My ego want to tell them my point of view, but i will not. I am not like her.

I am ok, i is hard as hell, i do not know why she tell them all this things, i could be said we can not make us happy together, and that its.

WW now to all people around and my kids telling, i left them because my reasons.....

However, i am relay glad i have done this, my kids deserve healthy parents, for me is sure i am not healthy, if i am around my WW. I think for her is as well, because she admit to the kids that she was not forgave me about my infidelity.

So, from some days now, i am not the old beta/omega f**ng nice guy, who was company (she try to make us friends) his WW to diners/beer/coffee with OM1, or who when WW call me to si if i come home and look after kids, telling me, she is going on diner with OM2, and i have respond "i understand" - that was advise from other forum 2 years ago ....

Not any more, if someone what to be next to me, have to respect me, and be the woman i will respect as well.

Thank you Sandi, for whole your support.
I do not know why other people do no write to my story, may be there is reason, some one to tel me please

All what i hear about me, and my situation by (inlet), open my eyes, what WW was thinking about me, also for her current real self.

I will post as regular as i can.
I have panic attacks and anxiety, but handle very well.

My questions:
1. Next week there is mountain walk in our sport activity center, should i spend time with the kids and WW.
2. Next moth WW have Bird day, should i do something.
3. The kids want spend some time together as family (my WW telling them it is better to be separated than to be together and fight). WW told them if we separated we are going to be more nice each other.

write soon
Posted By: neffer

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/09/18 01:01 AM

Try to detach. You are still wrapped around her finger. Those future family activities do not help. Take care of your kids and avoid seeing your W.

It all takes time. So be patient. GAL
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/09/18 01:51 AM

I am not surprised by your WW's actions. When your son asks why you cheated on his mom, tell him you will explain when he is older. It is hard to explain to children. Tell him you are not cheating on his mom now.

She will use the children to hurt you. I am sorry. She will make this sound as if everything is your fault. You will be okay. Don't believe her lies.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Is that the very worst thing she can do to hurt you? Tell me why this would hurt?


I know it is not healthy to take it so deep, but all our M, i have supper to not have her sexual as i would be normal. But in the end of the day, i will handle.


The translation is confusing, but I think you are referring to not having her sexually. You have not had her for five years! All the five years you could have been with another woman, but you remained faithful. You will find a good woman that will love you properly.

Quote:
So, from some days now, i am not the old beta/omega f**ng nice guy, who was company (she try to make us friends) his WW to diners/beer/coffee with OM1, or who when WW call me to si if i come home and look after kids, telling me, she is going on diner with OM2, and i have respond "i understand" - that was advise from other forum 2 years ago ....


Great job! whistle Great attitude! whistle

Quote:
I have panic attacks and anxiety, but handle very well.


A medical doctor can give you a prescription to help with the panic attacks, and not sleeping well.

I am disappointed the abuse center was not more helpful. Please make an appointment to see a counselor. You need someone to talk with you.

Quote:
1. Next week there is mountain walk in our sport activity center, should i spend time with the kids and WW.


No more activities as a family with your WW. Find things to do with you and the kids......but W cannot be included. Even if the kids ask you to join them and WW, do not participate. If they ask if mom can join you.......say, "Sorry, no". You can do this!

Quote:
2. Next moth WW have Bird day, should i do something.


No! No card, no gift, no text, no nothing for any occasion for your WW. She is no longer your W. You have no duty to her. No more celebrations with her.

Quote:
3. The kids want spend some time together as family (my WW telling them it is better to be separated than to be together and fight). WW told them if we separated we are going to be more nice each other.


No. This is children's way of trying to keep their parents together. You are separated and the kids will have two families. It is sad, but it has to be this way. It will be difficult at first, but they will adjust.

You must tell the children you will have a place soon and they will be able to stay with you. They will have two houses, instead of one. They need to know they are not losing you as a father. They need something to look forward to the future with you.

((hugs))
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 05/25/18 01:29 AM

I hope you are okay. Please let us hear from you.
Posted By: sandi2

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 06/22/18 07:54 AM

I hate it when someone just vanishes at the most critical point of their sitch. cry
Posted By: betheoa

Re: Former WH, now LBS Please Help, close to Give Up - 08/05/18 03:22 PM

Hi Sandy,
I did not vanish, jus i have no courage and eyes to look at you and say, my WW tricked me to come home, without anting in return, guided me with my kids and other manipulations.
So now i am at home, much more calmer.
My WW, increase her WW behavior, staid OUT late without call and thing like this.
Me do not call/ask/comment or anything, not showing any emotion.
When she come in fro work, i am going out for 2-3 hours walk.
That is for the moment, there is OM2 on the picture in the same intense, for 3 weeks OM2 was not in contact her, so she found OM3 to relapse OM2 attention, but OM2 come back so OM3 will be out......
I am watching soup opera, but this time i am out side watching, not participate.

So Sandy, i am very great full of Yours support then, if you are wiling/able to support me in house - dealing with my WW, i will be appreciate. My flat will be ready in the end of September, i am not sure if i will move then, now i am thinking the best option for my kids is to stay home.

best Regards Sandy, at least i become a Man, to come here and said this to you.
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