Saying ILY... - 01/13/18 05:54 PM
I understand that LBS should not be telling their WAS ILY because it is considered pursuing. But what is the stance on reciprocating when the WAS is the one saying it to the LBS?...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/13/18 08:45 PM
I don't know there is a prescriptive.
Largely I sense it depends on each persons situation.
Dealing with a wayward would be very different from piecing.
When the G used to say that to me, it was usually after a period of serious abuse and my response was different almost every time, I never got to the right thing to say. The very best I said was 'I am unable to absorb that today."
In general I think do that which works, you can try different responses that which works for YOU. Be aware that a wayward may say this and mean it for a tiny moment and then poof, it's gone. Others who abuse may be manipulating. So generally with a wayward in active mode it is best not to respond because a cheater isn't in a love state. Hurting someone you love is bunkum, it's not love. I am not saying don't love or kill love, just hold it to your own heart.
I can't comment on piecing.
Love is a choice, with shift you can choose not to love. It's a state.
My only serious thought is never say anything you do not truly feel as it will backfire to yourself. You won't feel good to yourself if you say ILY and that's not the space you are in.
Above all detach.
V
Largely I sense it depends on each persons situation.
Dealing with a wayward would be very different from piecing.
When the G used to say that to me, it was usually after a period of serious abuse and my response was different almost every time, I never got to the right thing to say. The very best I said was 'I am unable to absorb that today."
In general I think do that which works, you can try different responses that which works for YOU. Be aware that a wayward may say this and mean it for a tiny moment and then poof, it's gone. Others who abuse may be manipulating. So generally with a wayward in active mode it is best not to respond because a cheater isn't in a love state. Hurting someone you love is bunkum, it's not love. I am not saying don't love or kill love, just hold it to your own heart.
I can't comment on piecing.
Love is a choice, with shift you can choose not to love. It's a state.
My only serious thought is never say anything you do not truly feel as it will backfire to yourself. You won't feel good to yourself if you say ILY and that's not the space you are in.
Above all detach.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/13/18 08:46 PM
Mtb do you have a reason to ask this QUESTION?
V
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/13/18 11:01 PM
Please tell us what has been going on since you were last here. Did you reconsile back in 2013?
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/14/18 03:38 AM
So, I was here about 5 years ago for a similar situation. Wife left in 2013 for 6 months, came back home, and things seemed better. I should also add that during her time gone the first time, she had an addiction to Vicodin, and I believe a lot of her reason for leaving was me trying to stand in the way of her taking pills. Anyway, she came back home in August of 2013, wanted to leave again a month or two later, but didn't. Dealt with a lot of lies and deception about her pill use for a lot of 2014. We ended up pregnant, and she ended up in an in patient rehab for several months before the baby was born (Sept 14 - Dec 14) When she got out things were much better. She was her old self again. Had child #4 in may of 2015 (on my birthday!). Things were going well since then...
Over the past couple of years, there were a few small relapses, but I helped her work through it. She has suffered depression, and would sit around watching TV all day, and not doing much else. I encouraged her to get a job, so she could get out of the house and feel like she had a purpose and have a more fulfilling life. A friend of ours owns a local bar, and needed a bartender, and she took the job (Nov 17). She immediately threw herself into the job, and it kind of took over her life for a month. During this time, her behavior had changed, and from previous experiences, I knew she was taking pills again. When I confronted her about it, she said she wasn't, but I saw a message on her phone of her asking someone to get her pills. When I told her this, she said she was just seeing if she could get a couple for her back pain. She broke her back when she was a teenager and has suffered from back pain since then. I warned her of the slippery slope she was on and advised her to find an alternative way to deal with the pain...
Fast forward to now. On Jan 3rd, we got into a fight about her being gone on the time, and it ended with her saying she thinks we need to separate and she wants to move into her own place. She doesn't know what she wants, doesn't want a divorce right now, but a break to figure out who she is. She said she feels like she missed out on her youth and "never got to live". That I was able to do things, but she felt like she wasn't, and now feels like she needs to. I understand that this has a lot to do with the new job. Seeing a bunch of 20 somethings drinking and having a good time each night. She just turned 30 last October...
I told her, that I understood where she was coming from, and that she could still have fun and go out and be married. She said "things were different this time", like "a switch was flipped" and she had pretty much made up her mind. She feels as though she has her mind made up to leave, but still isn't quite sure. This is when I went back to DBing. So now, I;m at home all the time with the kids, she's at work constantly, and doesn't come home until 4. The past week, I've found her sleeping in the driveway in her van with it running 4 times. The first 2, I went out, woke her up, and she came to bed, apolagizing for falling asleep outside, that she was tired. The past 2 nights, have let her sleep out there. The way I see it, if you can drive home, park in the driveway and turn off your lights, you could make it inside to go to bed if you really wanted to. So. I have assumed that she wants to sleep out there, so I jsut let her. The first time, she came inside at 8:00 and asked why I didn't come wake her up. I told her I didn;t know she was out there. We were all still in bed when she came in. This morning, she just left at 8:45. Didn't even get out of the van. She is the manager at the bar and they do the paper work and money drop at 9:00, so I know she was headed back to work.
Last night, she came home at 11:00 to change clothes and go back to work to help with a party bus. I was already in bed. She came in the bedroom and asked how my day was. I told her it was good. She made a comment about how tired she was, and crawled into bed next to me and kind of fell asleep for 5 minutes, then rolled over and said, "Thanks for cuddling with me" (which I wasn't). I replied with you're welcome, and she said she was being sarcastic and I said Sorry. She finished getting dressed, gave me a kiss on the forehead as I laid in bed, said goodbye and I love you as she left the room...
So yeah, I'm confused. Tells me she loves me occasionally, wants me to cuddle with her when she is in bed and seems upset if I don't. But then sleeps in the driveway and avoids being home like it's the plague...
I have no suspicion of there being OM or an A. She says she stays away from home because she's afraid she'll change her mind and want to stay, but thinks she already has her mind made up to leave...
The way I see it, is she has some personal issues that are causing problems. She had a shitty childhood, and what she is doing now is the same thing her mother did when she a kid. I think she is blaming this underlying pain on our relationship. Kind of like "I'm not happy with my life, so it must be my relationship with my husband because when I'm at work or out with friends I don't feel the pain." I think she is just keeping herself constantly occupied with work and friends so the pain doesn't surface and therefore blames it on our home life because she doesn't have the constant distraction to think about what is really bothering her. When she's at home, she has time to think, and she doesn't want to think about it. At some point, the novelty of the new job and nightlife fun will wear off and she'll be stuck having to deal with the issues. I just hope that I'm still around when she makes the realization, and she is willing to work on things...
Over the past couple of years, there were a few small relapses, but I helped her work through it. She has suffered depression, and would sit around watching TV all day, and not doing much else. I encouraged her to get a job, so she could get out of the house and feel like she had a purpose and have a more fulfilling life. A friend of ours owns a local bar, and needed a bartender, and she took the job (Nov 17). She immediately threw herself into the job, and it kind of took over her life for a month. During this time, her behavior had changed, and from previous experiences, I knew she was taking pills again. When I confronted her about it, she said she wasn't, but I saw a message on her phone of her asking someone to get her pills. When I told her this, she said she was just seeing if she could get a couple for her back pain. She broke her back when she was a teenager and has suffered from back pain since then. I warned her of the slippery slope she was on and advised her to find an alternative way to deal with the pain...
Fast forward to now. On Jan 3rd, we got into a fight about her being gone on the time, and it ended with her saying she thinks we need to separate and she wants to move into her own place. She doesn't know what she wants, doesn't want a divorce right now, but a break to figure out who she is. She said she feels like she missed out on her youth and "never got to live". That I was able to do things, but she felt like she wasn't, and now feels like she needs to. I understand that this has a lot to do with the new job. Seeing a bunch of 20 somethings drinking and having a good time each night. She just turned 30 last October...
I told her, that I understood where she was coming from, and that she could still have fun and go out and be married. She said "things were different this time", like "a switch was flipped" and she had pretty much made up her mind. She feels as though she has her mind made up to leave, but still isn't quite sure. This is when I went back to DBing. So now, I;m at home all the time with the kids, she's at work constantly, and doesn't come home until 4. The past week, I've found her sleeping in the driveway in her van with it running 4 times. The first 2, I went out, woke her up, and she came to bed, apolagizing for falling asleep outside, that she was tired. The past 2 nights, have let her sleep out there. The way I see it, if you can drive home, park in the driveway and turn off your lights, you could make it inside to go to bed if you really wanted to. So. I have assumed that she wants to sleep out there, so I jsut let her. The first time, she came inside at 8:00 and asked why I didn't come wake her up. I told her I didn;t know she was out there. We were all still in bed when she came in. This morning, she just left at 8:45. Didn't even get out of the van. She is the manager at the bar and they do the paper work and money drop at 9:00, so I know she was headed back to work.
Last night, she came home at 11:00 to change clothes and go back to work to help with a party bus. I was already in bed. She came in the bedroom and asked how my day was. I told her it was good. She made a comment about how tired she was, and crawled into bed next to me and kind of fell asleep for 5 minutes, then rolled over and said, "Thanks for cuddling with me" (which I wasn't). I replied with you're welcome, and she said she was being sarcastic and I said Sorry. She finished getting dressed, gave me a kiss on the forehead as I laid in bed, said goodbye and I love you as she left the room...
So yeah, I'm confused. Tells me she loves me occasionally, wants me to cuddle with her when she is in bed and seems upset if I don't. But then sleeps in the driveway and avoids being home like it's the plague...
I have no suspicion of there being OM or an A. She says she stays away from home because she's afraid she'll change her mind and want to stay, but thinks she already has her mind made up to leave...
The way I see it, is she has some personal issues that are causing problems. She had a shitty childhood, and what she is doing now is the same thing her mother did when she a kid. I think she is blaming this underlying pain on our relationship. Kind of like "I'm not happy with my life, so it must be my relationship with my husband because when I'm at work or out with friends I don't feel the pain." I think she is just keeping herself constantly occupied with work and friends so the pain doesn't surface and therefore blames it on our home life because she doesn't have the constant distraction to think about what is really bothering her. When she's at home, she has time to think, and she doesn't want to think about it. At some point, the novelty of the new job and nightlife fun will wear off and she'll be stuck having to deal with the issues. I just hope that I'm still around when she makes the realization, and she is willing to work on things...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/14/18 06:54 AM
Quote:
So yeah, I'm confused. Tells me she loves me occasionally, wants me to cuddle with her when she is in bed and seems upset if I don't. But then sleeps in the driveway and avoids being home like it's the plague...
Why did you leave the first time you were here?
When she returned home from the first separation, did the two of you receive MC, attend any type of relationship seminars, take part in a M help program? Was she required to do any work, or did she just returned home?
Unless she willingly seeks help for her personal issues, I don't know that you can do anything to get her to change. She's trying to be a teenager. You have four children, and that means a lot of responsibility.......you don't need five! A lot of people have a bad childhood, but they choose not to repeat the mistakes of their parents.
My advice it not to enable her behavior. Don't cater to her. Don't rescue her by doing her work for her. Does she ever deal with consequences for her behavior?
Sleeping in the van that's parked in the family driveway, is unacceptable behavior for a wife & mother of four. Yet, she gets sarcastic about you not cuddling with her.....and you apologize? Let me guess, you are use to automatically apologizing for......whatever. You think that's what you're suppose to do when she gripes?
I'm sorry things are not good. I'm sorry she came back before resolving the issues and getting real help for the MR. What can you do differently this time around?
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/14/18 07:34 AM
I left last time I was here because I thought I was done when she came back. I put in the work and became a better person. Still applied the techniques, and thought things would get better. Like I had mentioned before, she was also fighting a pain pill addiction. I guess I was just happy to have her back home, so we could work on things, including her addiction. Wenever received MC or recieve any marital help. Big mistake on our part looking back...
I agree that she need to willingly seek help for her personal issues, but any time I ask her to get help, she sees it as an attack. I honestly think she is in denial about her issues, and chooses to blame all of her ill feeling on our relationship. I convinced her to see an IC several months ago. She went twice and quit going. It's as if once the real problems start to come to the surface, she runs away. It gets too real for her...
I haven't been catering to her or trying to rescue her from her mistakes. She doesn't deal well with consequences for her behavior. If she screws up, she comes up with a lie to tell whoever she is dealing with to justify her actions and make it not look so bad. Ex: Shows up late to work because she stayed out all night and overslept, but tells her boss that one of the kids was sick and threw up on her as she was about to leave...
I'm still unsure what to think exactly about the sleeping in the van. Sometimes I honestly think she just accidentally falls asleep. Gets home, sits in the driveway and has a cigarette while perusing facebook. Sits out there scrolling through her phone until she passes out. She's only sleeping a few hours a day because she insists on being at work all the time. I've decided to just let her sleep out there. One of her complaints was that I was controlling, and she never felt like she could do anything she wanted to do. So now, I just let her do whatever she wants. If she wants to sleep in a van for 3 hours a night in the driveway, so be it, because I have a feeling if I say she should come inside and go to bed, I would be telling her what to do...
Another complaint of hers was that I never apologize for anything. And she's kind of right. I didn't see a need to apologize for something that I didn't see as wrong, even if it bothered her, which I now see as wrong. I needed to validate her feelings of being upset and apologize for making her feel the way I did....
I've already decided that I don't want to be in a R with her if she doesn't take care of her underlying issues. So this time around, if she decides to come back and work on things, she will need to do some IC and MC for awhile before I can accept her back...
I agree that she need to willingly seek help for her personal issues, but any time I ask her to get help, she sees it as an attack. I honestly think she is in denial about her issues, and chooses to blame all of her ill feeling on our relationship. I convinced her to see an IC several months ago. She went twice and quit going. It's as if once the real problems start to come to the surface, she runs away. It gets too real for her...
I haven't been catering to her or trying to rescue her from her mistakes. She doesn't deal well with consequences for her behavior. If she screws up, she comes up with a lie to tell whoever she is dealing with to justify her actions and make it not look so bad. Ex: Shows up late to work because she stayed out all night and overslept, but tells her boss that one of the kids was sick and threw up on her as she was about to leave...
I'm still unsure what to think exactly about the sleeping in the van. Sometimes I honestly think she just accidentally falls asleep. Gets home, sits in the driveway and has a cigarette while perusing facebook. Sits out there scrolling through her phone until she passes out. She's only sleeping a few hours a day because she insists on being at work all the time. I've decided to just let her sleep out there. One of her complaints was that I was controlling, and she never felt like she could do anything she wanted to do. So now, I just let her do whatever she wants. If she wants to sleep in a van for 3 hours a night in the driveway, so be it, because I have a feeling if I say she should come inside and go to bed, I would be telling her what to do...
Another complaint of hers was that I never apologize for anything. And she's kind of right. I didn't see a need to apologize for something that I didn't see as wrong, even if it bothered her, which I now see as wrong. I needed to validate her feelings of being upset and apologize for making her feel the way I did....
I've already decided that I don't want to be in a R with her if she doesn't take care of her underlying issues. So this time around, if she decides to come back and work on things, she will need to do some IC and MC for awhile before I can accept her back...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/14/18 09:09 AM
Update: W called me this morning while at work and said she would be home in an hour to spend some time with me and the kids. 3 hours later, she never showed up, so I called to see what was up. Turns out she is headed to get a tattoo with a her friend (some girl in her early 20's that drinks at the bar she works at). A semicolon tattoo that represents the fight against depresssion and suicide. I told her that seemed a little crazy to be getting a tattoo in the spur of the moment and she said she has been wanting to get it for awhile. Something to look at when she is feeling down. I told her she could do whatever she wanted. I think she expected me to get mad and try to talk her out of it. Told her I didn't care about the tattoo, but I was concerned with the fact that this is the second time in 2 days she has told us she would be home at a specific timeand flaked out. That it wasn't fair to me or the kids. They had their hopes up to see her. So I told her that she can't be telling us she is coming and not show up anymore...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/15/18 03:10 AM
Quote:
Told her I didn't care about the tattoo, but I was concerned with the fact that this is the second time in 2 days she has told us she would be home at a specific timeand flaked out. That it wasn't fair to me or the kids. They had their hopes up to see her. So I told her that she can't be telling us she is coming and not show up anymore...
I get what you are saying, but to her ears you sound like you are whining. If you have decided to let her have her way and do what she wants, then I suggest you not complain about it. I understand it is not fair to the kids, but you can't have it both ways. I mean, if she's going to do whatever she wants to do.....then don't whine to her about disappointing the kids. Do you understand what I am saying?
When you read Divorce Remedy, you will see a technique that is called "Dropping the Rope". Considering your situation with this wayward W who is addicted to pills and who wants to live like Girls Gone Wild....and considering your Nice Guy Syndrome, I think Dropping the Rope would be the route for you to take.
DTR (Dropping the Rope) is when you have no power in the relationship with your WW. Your words make no difference to her. Therefore, you emotionally let go, just as if you were at the end of a rope you had been holding onto for dear life.....and then you finally let go. When you let go of your WW, you take your focus completely off her and put it on you and the kids.
Take care of your children and yourself. You cannot depend on her to do what she says, so stop counting on her. Plan your day as if she won't be there. Plan for just you and your children. If she decides to show up......okay. If she decides not to show up....okay. Don't act disappointed or tell her she let the kids down b/c she wasn't there. Don't act excited if she does show up. This wife & mother has chunked her H and her kids aside in order to live a wild lifestyle, and she is taking no responsibility.
If you will emotionally and mentally separate yourself from her, I think you have a chance at building a healthier life for you and your children.....considering they have her as a mother.
Do you have a responsible person who could babysit for you sometimes?
Do you have a full time job, or are a stay at home dad?
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/15/18 03:23 AM
Quote:
I understand that LBS should not be telling their WAS ILY because it is considered pursuing. But what is the stance on reciprocating when the WAS is the one saying it to the LBS?...
If you think she's being genuine then it's OK to reciprocate. But if you think she's just baiting you into a fight (like if you say it back and then she responds with "do you really? Then why do you X, Y and Z") then don't say it.
Quote:
During this time, her behavior had changed, and from previous experiences, I knew she was taking pills again. When I confronted her about it, she said she wasn't, but I saw a message on her phone of her asking someone to get her pills. When I told her this, she said she was just seeing if she could get a couple for her back pain.
OK if I understand you correctly, she is obtaining pain pills illegally. So the "back pain" excuse doesn't fly, because if she has back pain that needs drug treatment she could certainly obtain that legally.
Quote:
Gets home, sits in the driveway and has a cigarette while perusing facebook.
She comes home and sits in the driveway smoking and falls asleep for hours? That is NOT AT ALL OK. Sounds like the illegal pain pills may be a factor as well. Sounds like she needs some help, how did she get off the pain pills before? Did she go to rehab?
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/15/18 04:24 AM
Sandi, I totally understand what you are saying. I think I was trying to set a boundary, but the way I worded it sounded like whining. Alos, I am familiar with DTR, and I'm trying to detach as much as possible. One of the problems in our relationship though was me not paying attention to her or her needs. It's messed up, because paying more attention to her and what she is saying would be a 180 for me, but at the same time I don't want it to appear as pursuing. As far as babysitters go, my parents will watch the kids every once in a while, but I don't have many others that could, And yes, I do have a full time job as a teacher...
AS, thanks for the advice on saying ILY. I do think she is being genuine. She says it before leaving the house, after talking on the phone, and after saying good night. Not once has she tried to use it against me to pick a fight. The pill thing is tricky. She has been to rehab, and really wanted to stay clean. Afterwards, at doctors visits she would tell them that she had addiction issues and that she didn't want to be put on opiates. So they put her on a list, and won't precsribe them to her anymore. She went to a pain management clinic recently and will be starting physical therapy and getting injections in her back. But now, it's like she's in limbo. They won't prescribe her any pills, and the physical therapy and pain injections haven't started yet...
AS, thanks for the advice on saying ILY. I do think she is being genuine. She says it before leaving the house, after talking on the phone, and after saying good night. Not once has she tried to use it against me to pick a fight. The pill thing is tricky. She has been to rehab, and really wanted to stay clean. Afterwards, at doctors visits she would tell them that she had addiction issues and that she didn't want to be put on opiates. So they put her on a list, and won't precsribe them to her anymore. She went to a pain management clinic recently and will be starting physical therapy and getting injections in her back. But now, it's like she's in limbo. They won't prescribe her any pills, and the physical therapy and pain injections haven't started yet...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/17/18 05:44 AM
It's a bad situation when the wayward spouse is suffering from a physical problem. If her doctors won't prescribe pain medication, then I suspect she is getting something without prescriptions. The addiction and how she is obtaining the pills may play a part in her GGW lifestyle.
What specific needs? Did she tell you?
But a 180 does not mean you take the blame and start apologizing for every little thing she complains about..........especially when she is being sarcastic (like the snuggling). If you know you need to apologize for something, then do it. When a W is wayward, the H has to present himself in a position of strength. I'm not telling you to never apologize when you do something to cause her legitmate hurt. I am saying not to do like some guys that get into a habit of apologizing for something all the time, b/c he thinks it will bring peace with her. Just b/c she complains......does not mean he should take blame and jump in to apologize. Do you see what I mean?
You mentioned she thought you never listened to her. You can listen, without telling her what she should do to fix it. Some H's think that's their job. However, unless she asks for advice, she doesn't want it. Women want to be heard. If she starts bashing you, then you walk away.
Quote:
One of the problems in our relationship though was me not paying attention to her or her needs. It's messed up, because paying more attention to her and what she is saying would be a 180 for me, but at the same time I don't want it to appear as pursuing
What specific needs? Did she tell you?
Quote:
Another complaint of hers was that I never apologize for anything. And she's kind of right. I didn't see a need to apologize for something that I didn't see as wrong, even if it bothered her, which I now see as wrong. I needed to validate her feelings of being upset and apologize for making her feel the way I did....
But a 180 does not mean you take the blame and start apologizing for every little thing she complains about..........especially when she is being sarcastic (like the snuggling). If you know you need to apologize for something, then do it. When a W is wayward, the H has to present himself in a position of strength. I'm not telling you to never apologize when you do something to cause her legitmate hurt. I am saying not to do like some guys that get into a habit of apologizing for something all the time, b/c he thinks it will bring peace with her. Just b/c she complains......does not mean he should take blame and jump in to apologize. Do you see what I mean?
You mentioned she thought you never listened to her. You can listen, without telling her what she should do to fix it. Some H's think that's their job. However, unless she asks for advice, she doesn't want it. Women want to be heard. If she starts bashing you, then you walk away.
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/22/18 03:23 AM
I have some questions about setting boundaries. In my previous posts, I mentioned that W comes home at early hours in the morning, sometimes sleeping in her van. This morning she got home at 7:00 AM (15 minutes before I had to leave for work). The kids have really been struggling with her not being around either. They see her for a few minutes here or there when she comes home to get ready for work. She is asleep when they leave for school, so they don't see her in the morning. She is also not helping to pay any of the bills or do anything around the house. At this point, I feel as though she is treating our home like a hotel, or a changing room.
I am not happy with this behavior, and I think it is disrespectful to me, the kids, and our marital home. guess my question is, how do I set a boundary without seeming like I am being controlling? Do I tell her that if she continues to be gone all the time that she needs to find her own place? And if so, what is the timeline for this to happen? I feel like she will throw it back in my face, saying that I'm being controlling and telling her what she can or can't do.
I am not happy with this behavior, and I think it is disrespectful to me, the kids, and our marital home. guess my question is, how do I set a boundary without seeming like I am being controlling? Do I tell her that if she continues to be gone all the time that she needs to find her own place? And if so, what is the timeline for this to happen? I feel like she will throw it back in my face, saying that I'm being controlling and telling her what she can or can't do.
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/22/18 03:26 AM
Also, she had mentioned in a previous conversation that she wanted to split custody 50/50 with the kids, yet she is rarely home to see them. Should I set a boundary in this area as well. Stating that if she is serious about wanting to split custody that she needs to be responsible for the kids 3 or 4 nights a week, instead of leaving them at home with me every night while she runs around until she comes home at 4 in the morning?
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/22/18 03:19 PM
Well... I talked to W while I was at work today to see what her work schedule was for the week. She asked why, and I told her that we needed to talk about what was going on with the kids and what her timeline on moving out was. My plan was to set some boundaries as mentioned in my previous 2 posts. She kind of got a little pissy when I mentioned it. I told her I had to go and we would discuss it when I got home...
I've been do really well with detaching the past few days, no calls/texts throughout the day, no ily's, no cuddling at night. Just been getting things taken care of around the house and acting "as if". This weekend, I kind of had an awakening and really let go. I finally believed that I don't need her and her poor behavior in my life and maybe it would be best if she did leave. I'm not saying that I've given up, but I realized I'll be fine with or without her. I'm in a better place mentally than I have been in a while and I feel great...
So, tonight when I got home, I put a record on while I was cooking dinner and cleaning the kitchen. Just singing, messing with the kids, and enjoying myself. She kind of ignored me while she was getting ready for work, and I honestly didn't care. I also got a new phone this weekend, and she picked it up and asked what the passcode was with kind of a smirk on her face. I just told her and went about my business. She read through some of my texts, and it didn't bother me one bit bc I have nothing to hide. I think she expected me to tell her to bug off. As she was walking out the door, she asked me what I wanted to talk about. I told her I would talk to her tomorrow because she was leaving for work. She kind of got pissy again, said whatever, and walked out the door. About 5 seconds later she popped back in, and said, "So are you kicking me out of the house?". I said, "No. We'll talk about it tomorrow when you have more time." I got another "whatever" and she left...
Our youngest son was sick today, and he threw up all over me about an hour after she left. I sent her a text to let her know what was going on with him, to which she responded, "poor baby". I didn't reply. An hour later texted "How is our baby doing?" I gave her another update, and she then responded with, "Btw, not being home the past few days has made me realize I don't want this. I want to work on our family" I have not yet responded...
Last night, she had her work Christmas party. She told me she saw our mutual friend there, and he had heard we were splitting up, and she said that we were. He asked if it had anything to do with her new job at the bar, and if it did, she shouldn't leave. She told him it had nothing to do with her new job, and then asked if he and a few of my other friends would still be friends with her. And from what I got, he basically said no, we won't be friends, that she was being selfish and I didn't deserve to be dealing with this. I think that this in conjuction with my general attitude this past weekend and wanting to talk about custody of the kids and when she would be moving out has lifted her fog a bit...
I have no expectations, but I do see this as a positive sign...
I've been do really well with detaching the past few days, no calls/texts throughout the day, no ily's, no cuddling at night. Just been getting things taken care of around the house and acting "as if". This weekend, I kind of had an awakening and really let go. I finally believed that I don't need her and her poor behavior in my life and maybe it would be best if she did leave. I'm not saying that I've given up, but I realized I'll be fine with or without her. I'm in a better place mentally than I have been in a while and I feel great...
So, tonight when I got home, I put a record on while I was cooking dinner and cleaning the kitchen. Just singing, messing with the kids, and enjoying myself. She kind of ignored me while she was getting ready for work, and I honestly didn't care. I also got a new phone this weekend, and she picked it up and asked what the passcode was with kind of a smirk on her face. I just told her and went about my business. She read through some of my texts, and it didn't bother me one bit bc I have nothing to hide. I think she expected me to tell her to bug off. As she was walking out the door, she asked me what I wanted to talk about. I told her I would talk to her tomorrow because she was leaving for work. She kind of got pissy again, said whatever, and walked out the door. About 5 seconds later she popped back in, and said, "So are you kicking me out of the house?". I said, "No. We'll talk about it tomorrow when you have more time." I got another "whatever" and she left...
Our youngest son was sick today, and he threw up all over me about an hour after she left. I sent her a text to let her know what was going on with him, to which she responded, "poor baby". I didn't reply. An hour later texted "How is our baby doing?" I gave her another update, and she then responded with, "Btw, not being home the past few days has made me realize I don't want this. I want to work on our family" I have not yet responded...
Last night, she had her work Christmas party. She told me she saw our mutual friend there, and he had heard we were splitting up, and she said that we were. He asked if it had anything to do with her new job at the bar, and if it did, she shouldn't leave. She told him it had nothing to do with her new job, and then asked if he and a few of my other friends would still be friends with her. And from what I got, he basically said no, we won't be friends, that she was being selfish and I didn't deserve to be dealing with this. I think that this in conjuction with my general attitude this past weekend and wanting to talk about custody of the kids and when she would be moving out has lifted her fog a bit...
I have no expectations, but I do see this as a positive sign...
Re: Saying ILY... - 01/23/18 09:25 AM
It is great you have been detaching and are feeling better.
I am going to tell you something I don't ordinarily tell a newcomer......well, maybe not this soon anyway. It is time for you to make a stand, and she will have a decision to make. (1). She can quit her trashy job, and quit her trashy, young, partying friends. She can quit engaging in party buses and other such activity. She can quit the pills and get help for the addiction and any other issues. She can stop trashing her H on social media. She can stop sleeping in the van, and behave like a responsible and respectable wife and mother. Or (2) she can face the consequences of divorce and protective child services. It is her choice, but either way you will no longer stay in a relationship like the current one. She needs to know this is no idle threat, and that you are fed up and done with her behavior. She needs to believe she is losing her H and that he is ready to move on with or without her. Of course, that means you must be prepared to follow through if she doesn't choose the first option. And, she doesn't get to straddle the fence. She can't have it both ways.
She does not need to see a weak, emotional man who is pleading or bargaining with his WW. There will be no pleas, no trying to reason, and no persuasion. She will see a man who speaks with firm determination and strength. He does not waiver. He does not compromise. He tells her he has decided he will not live in this situation any longer. He will no longer be her dog to beat down. He will no longer take her punishment. If she can't forgive and move forward, then that is her problem.......but it is no longer HIS problem! Do you get that? He is through eating her sh't sandwiches. He is not attracted to the person she has become and he is done with it.
She has a choice to leave or stay. But you will not wait around for her to make up her mind. It's right now......or she leaves. But if she stays, it will be under the terms you've stated, and you don't care if she calls you controlling........b/c that is just a tool she uses to control YOU! Btw, the first time she comes home and sleeps in the van, you will put all her clothes and personal items out on the carport. Since she just drives by to get a change of clothes, you'll save her the effort of even entering the doorway. Don't be afraid to tell her you don't need a W like that.
Don't put up with her dragging up the past and rehashing all that you did wrong. WW's thrive on resentment of the past. The past cannot be undone, but this is the present. Hold up your hand in the "stop" signal, and tell her to stop. If she won't, then tell her she's made her decision and she needs to get her things and leave. Don't put up with her b.s.
Let me tell you something. She thinks you are jealous of her and other men. Maybe you are. However, she is enjoying the heck out of what it's doing to you. She is getting her revenge by throwing herself at other guys and making you squirm. She loves it! And, she takes her digs at you on a public social media like FB. Stop responding to her on FB! Men talk face to face, not get on FB and post to their WW. That is Beta behavior.
Now I want you to understand something. You must stop accepting blame for the actions your W is choosing to do! If not, then nothing you do will produce positive results between you and your W. That's what a lot of guys don't get. They sc@w up. Then they repent and get their act together. But the W won't let it go. She doesn't want to forgive him. Get it? She does not want to forgive. She has a heart issue. It's not that she can't forgive him.....but she doesn't want him getting off that easily. That's how some people see forgiving another person......as letting them off too easily. Her heart has hardened and she only wants to punish and keep on punishing him till the day she dies. Too harsh to hear? Sorry, but you need to know that if a man molds himself to his W's whipping strap......will not care how hateful she is being to him, and how good he is being to her...... and then love will just flood her heart. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. B/c she sees a man who acts like the victim she's made out of him, and she can't be attracted to a man she can verbally and emotionally (maybe even physically) beat down. Women have to look up to their man, not down. Women were made in such a way they have to respect their H, before they can have those soft, loving feelings for him. Make sense?
Do you believe you did so bad that you deserve how she treats you? Wrong! Now, she is just as guilty as you and it has to stop here. Don't take this the wrong way, but I want you to get angry about her sh'tty treatment of you. Perhaps you have been angry at some level, but you use passive-aggressive ways to show it. That's not the right way. You need to have the mindset of, "That's it! I've had enough and refuse to live this way". Mean it and stick to it. She can get therapy, or whatever it takes to find forgiveness and get her heart right toward you.......or she can go on her way. You should not have to live with an unforgiving person for the rest of your life. Life is too short!
Some people do not agree with this approach. And, you certainly don't have to do anything I suggest. After all, it's your life, not mine.
I am going to tell you something I don't ordinarily tell a newcomer......well, maybe not this soon anyway. It is time for you to make a stand, and she will have a decision to make. (1). She can quit her trashy job, and quit her trashy, young, partying friends. She can quit engaging in party buses and other such activity. She can quit the pills and get help for the addiction and any other issues. She can stop trashing her H on social media. She can stop sleeping in the van, and behave like a responsible and respectable wife and mother. Or (2) she can face the consequences of divorce and protective child services. It is her choice, but either way you will no longer stay in a relationship like the current one. She needs to know this is no idle threat, and that you are fed up and done with her behavior. She needs to believe she is losing her H and that he is ready to move on with or without her. Of course, that means you must be prepared to follow through if she doesn't choose the first option. And, she doesn't get to straddle the fence. She can't have it both ways.
She does not need to see a weak, emotional man who is pleading or bargaining with his WW. There will be no pleas, no trying to reason, and no persuasion. She will see a man who speaks with firm determination and strength. He does not waiver. He does not compromise. He tells her he has decided he will not live in this situation any longer. He will no longer be her dog to beat down. He will no longer take her punishment. If she can't forgive and move forward, then that is her problem.......but it is no longer HIS problem! Do you get that? He is through eating her sh't sandwiches. He is not attracted to the person she has become and he is done with it.
She has a choice to leave or stay. But you will not wait around for her to make up her mind. It's right now......or she leaves. But if she stays, it will be under the terms you've stated, and you don't care if she calls you controlling........b/c that is just a tool she uses to control YOU! Btw, the first time she comes home and sleeps in the van, you will put all her clothes and personal items out on the carport. Since she just drives by to get a change of clothes, you'll save her the effort of even entering the doorway. Don't be afraid to tell her you don't need a W like that.
Don't put up with her dragging up the past and rehashing all that you did wrong. WW's thrive on resentment of the past. The past cannot be undone, but this is the present. Hold up your hand in the "stop" signal, and tell her to stop. If she won't, then tell her she's made her decision and she needs to get her things and leave. Don't put up with her b.s.
Let me tell you something. She thinks you are jealous of her and other men. Maybe you are. However, she is enjoying the heck out of what it's doing to you. She is getting her revenge by throwing herself at other guys and making you squirm. She loves it! And, she takes her digs at you on a public social media like FB. Stop responding to her on FB! Men talk face to face, not get on FB and post to their WW. That is Beta behavior.
Now I want you to understand something. You must stop accepting blame for the actions your W is choosing to do! If not, then nothing you do will produce positive results between you and your W. That's what a lot of guys don't get. They sc@w up. Then they repent and get their act together. But the W won't let it go. She doesn't want to forgive him. Get it? She does not want to forgive. She has a heart issue. It's not that she can't forgive him.....but she doesn't want him getting off that easily. That's how some people see forgiving another person......as letting them off too easily. Her heart has hardened and she only wants to punish and keep on punishing him till the day she dies. Too harsh to hear? Sorry, but you need to know that if a man molds himself to his W's whipping strap......will not care how hateful she is being to him, and how good he is being to her...... and then love will just flood her heart. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. B/c she sees a man who acts like the victim she's made out of him, and she can't be attracted to a man she can verbally and emotionally (maybe even physically) beat down. Women have to look up to their man, not down. Women were made in such a way they have to respect their H, before they can have those soft, loving feelings for him. Make sense?
Do you believe you did so bad that you deserve how she treats you? Wrong! Now, she is just as guilty as you and it has to stop here. Don't take this the wrong way, but I want you to get angry about her sh'tty treatment of you. Perhaps you have been angry at some level, but you use passive-aggressive ways to show it. That's not the right way. You need to have the mindset of, "That's it! I've had enough and refuse to live this way". Mean it and stick to it. She can get therapy, or whatever it takes to find forgiveness and get her heart right toward you.......or she can go on her way. You should not have to live with an unforgiving person for the rest of your life. Life is too short!
Some people do not agree with this approach. And, you certainly don't have to do anything I suggest. After all, it's your life, not mine.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/08/18 06:02 AM
Well... I took Sandi's advice. Talked to her a couple of weeks ago and told her it was time to make up her mind. All the bs needs to stop. Of course she said she wanted to work on things, but in the last 2 weeks nothing has changed. I got up for work this morning, and she was sitting out in the van wide awake at 6:30. I've been wanting to talk to her about how she wasn't respecting the boundaries that I set, but she always found an excuse to push it off (too tired, late for work, etc.) So this morning I told her it was time for her to leave. That if she wanted to work on things, the door was open, but if she didn't the door was open, but she was going to have to walk out of it. She chose to walk out...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/08/18 06:03 AM
I honestly thought I would be upset about it, but I'm not. I actually feel really good. A weight has been lifted off me. I guess I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired....
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/08/18 09:13 AM
Good luck with things, mtb.
Keep us in the loop here on the board!
I'm guessing that she will be back at some point. How will you deal with that?
Keep us in the loop here on the board!
I'm guessing that she will be back at some point. How will you deal with that?
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/09/18 05:30 AM
I'm not sure if she will want to come back, or how I would deal with it if she did. A lot of things came to light this past week...
Now I'm pretty sure there is OM involved. This past Saturday night, she told me her grandma was in the hospital and not doing well. Sunday she said they moved her to a different hospital a few hours away and that she was going to go up there Sunday night after work and be there all day Monday visiting her. I told her that I hoped her grandma was OK and wished her luck. On Monday, I tried contacting her to see how things were with gma. She told me things were going OK, but the whole time, she was very short and cold in our interactions. I chalked it up to her being upset about her grandma, but I still had a weird feeling. I ended up calling her dad yesterday to see if she was with him at the hospital seeing her grandma like she said. He informed me that grandma was never in the hospital , and was very mad that W would lie about it so she could go do something else. Her dad called her and chewed her out for lying about it. A few minutes later she called me all mad telling me I wasn't allowed to talk to her family. I just told her that there was no reason to make that story up, that she was free to do whatever she wanted, and it made no sense. She said she spent all Sunday night partying and all Monday recovering. I'm just upset, because she obviously had this planned since Saturday. I asked her why she lied and her response was that she didn't want me to try to stop her. I haven't tried to stop her from doing anything since she left, So it didn't make sense to me...
I also heard from several people that she has been spending a lot of time with a male coworker. I had noticed the same thing. When I asked her about it, she said they were just friends. This morning, I checked her facebook messages (I know I shouldn't be snooping, but sometimes you just have to know) and she was messaging her female friend who is also a coworker of hers about going to Mardi Gras in Stl this weekend. Her female coworker asked if she was still going to go if OM wasn't going. W's response was that she told OM she was going to pay for everything if he went and really wants him to go...
Now I'm pretty sure there is OM involved. This past Saturday night, she told me her grandma was in the hospital and not doing well. Sunday she said they moved her to a different hospital a few hours away and that she was going to go up there Sunday night after work and be there all day Monday visiting her. I told her that I hoped her grandma was OK and wished her luck. On Monday, I tried contacting her to see how things were with gma. She told me things were going OK, but the whole time, she was very short and cold in our interactions. I chalked it up to her being upset about her grandma, but I still had a weird feeling. I ended up calling her dad yesterday to see if she was with him at the hospital seeing her grandma like she said. He informed me that grandma was never in the hospital , and was very mad that W would lie about it so she could go do something else. Her dad called her and chewed her out for lying about it. A few minutes later she called me all mad telling me I wasn't allowed to talk to her family. I just told her that there was no reason to make that story up, that she was free to do whatever she wanted, and it made no sense. She said she spent all Sunday night partying and all Monday recovering. I'm just upset, because she obviously had this planned since Saturday. I asked her why she lied and her response was that she didn't want me to try to stop her. I haven't tried to stop her from doing anything since she left, So it didn't make sense to me...
I also heard from several people that she has been spending a lot of time with a male coworker. I had noticed the same thing. When I asked her about it, she said they were just friends. This morning, I checked her facebook messages (I know I shouldn't be snooping, but sometimes you just have to know) and she was messaging her female friend who is also a coworker of hers about going to Mardi Gras in Stl this weekend. Her female coworker asked if she was still going to go if OM wasn't going. W's response was that she told OM she was going to pay for everything if he went and really wants him to go...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/13/18 02:56 AM
W says she looked at a house. Rent is $900 a month. There is no way she can afford it, but she has herself convinced that she can. Although she has 2 uncles that have always given her money whenever she asks. Usually the request for money is always prefaced with me being a controlling a-hole, so I'm sure this time will be no different. She's been playing the victim lately too. Telling everyone that I kicked her out and she has no place to go. When in reality, I asked her to leave and told her she could stay out the house until she found a place.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/13/18 03:01 AM
Also, she was supposed to be paying the babysitter, but hasn't paid her for the past 2 weeks. Keeps coming up with an excuse to why she didn't (forgot, bank was closed, paycheck was late). In addition to her pill habit, I recently found out that she's been doing cocaine now too. It's sad that all she wants to do is party with her new friends, and the kids and I have been tossed to the side. I wish there was a way to shake her out of this, but I know there isn't. Maybe it's best that she moves out into a place that she won't be able to afford. I have a feeling she's gonna need to hit rock bottom before things even have a chance of looking up...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/16/18 08:57 AM
W opened up for a bit of a relationship talk today. Made the comment that she has built up walls and doesn't want to let them down for fear of being hurt again. I listened and validated. She just thinks that things would go back to the way they were. Says she's noticed a positive change in me, but feels like they won't stick...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 10:58 AM
Quote:
W opened up for a bit of a relationship talk today. Made the comment that she has built up walls and doesn't want to let them down for fear of being hurt again. I listened and validated. She just thinks that things would go back to the way they were. Says she's noticed a positive change in me, but feels like they won't stick...
Well I don't know about you, but this makes me angry. The very idea that she has the audacity to say she is afraid things would go back to the way there were! It should be "you" who is concerned about how things would be if you let her come back. Can't you see that? Why do you still feel as if you have to get better to win her approval? I wish you thought more of yourself. You should have made it very plain she could not return until she cleaned up her drug habit and threw the tash out of her life.
She is a drug addict, and people will quickly discover they cannot trust her in any capacity.........and especially where money is concerned. She will lie and cheat her way straight to the bottom.
What are you doing to get a life apart from her?
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 11:03 AM
I've been a nit upset lately with the serious lack of attention she has given the kids this past month. She goes days without seeing them, and when she does it's for a couple of hours tops. The kids stayed with my parents so I could get out and go to a concert Friday night. When I got home that night, W was asleep on the couch. She hasn't been staying here for the past week or two. Been sleeping in her van or crashing on couches. I told her she didn't have to do that, and she was welcome to stay here until she found a place, but she vever does. Oh well, her choice. I was surprised to see her on the couch. In the morning, I got up, showered, and went about my business. When she woke up, she was cordial. We chit chatted for a bit and she asked me if I wanted to go to lunch and drive by the place she was wanting to rent. I took her up on the offer. We drove by the place, had lunch, and everything was cool. I think she expected me to try to talk her out of it like I had in the past, but I didn't say anything that wasn't validating. I've been pretty good at keeping my mouth shut lately. After lunch, I went to pick up the kids and she said she was going to stop back by to see them later before she went to work.She never did. Instead spent the time at her bff's place playing with her kids and posting pics of them on social media.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 11:11 AM
This morning she called and I did not answer. About 15 minutes later she showed up as I was getting into the shower. She came in the bathroom to use the toilet and we talked for a couple of minutes while I was showering. She said she was sorry for not making it back by last night. (Yeah right). And that she stopped by her friends house. I said I knew bc I saw the pics of her with her friends kids.She asked if I was mad, and I said,"No. You can do whatever you want, but I am a little upset that you have time to hang out with her kids when you haven't even seen your own kids since Monday" (keep in mind it is Sunday morning, so nearly a week). And I left it at that. When I got out of the shower, she said she wanted to see the new tattoo i got earlier in the week, so I showed her. She chatted for a bit, and I was cordial but short. During this time one of the kids broke a glass in the kitchen, so I went in to clean it up. She said she would help me clean it up, but she was late for work and was "really sorry". I told her it was no big deal, I got it. As she was walking out the door she said "I love you" and my response was "Alright, Goodbye".
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 11:23 AM
About 30 minutes later, she called again and I did not answer. She sent a text asking me to call her, and immediately called again. I waited for about 20 minutes and called her back to see what she wanted. She wanted to know if I would be leaving the house at all and if I could bring her some Tylenol. I told her I wasn't planning on leaving the house, but if I did I would run some by. I had no intention of doing that at all. I think she is starting to feel me pull away and the ily and seeing if I would drop something off for her (which I usually would do no problem) were temp checks. I'm doing much better at detaching, but it is hard. I know I have to stick with it if I want things to get better. And I know that things are going to get much worse before they get better. Sooner or later she is going to throw a fit that I'm not giving her the attention she is used to. But that's her problem, not mine...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 11:40 AM
Sandi,
I just saw your post. And it did make me a little angry, but at the same time, I really didn't care. I'm to the point where I am making the changes for myself. If she doesn't believe they will stick, that's not my problem. At this point, she has made it very clear that she doesn't want to work on things. I guess I didn't see the point into getting into a pissing match with her. I think she would have taken my comments about her drug use as being defensive and trying to blame her for everything. One of the big issues we had in the past was me constantly questioning her about taking pills. Sometimes she was, sometimes she wasn't. But I was always trying to tell her who she could/couldn't hang out with bc the were a good/bad influence when it came to her addiction. In my mind, I was trying to be helpful and keep her accountable, but at the same time, I now see it as being a control issue too. I didn't approach these convos in the nicest way. What I thought was tough love, she saw as controlling. Now I think it was a combination of both. She was gonna do what she was gonna do anyway, it didn't matter if I told her to stay away from certain people. And in the process, she decided to lie more to avoid those confrontations, and I would get more angry and try to control more, and the cycle continued and got worse. Looking back, I there was probably a better way to deal with it. Me not being such an a-hole and more understanding and approaching her as a loving husband that cared and wanted to help. Then maybe she wouldn't have felt like she needed to lie...
I just saw your post. And it did make me a little angry, but at the same time, I really didn't care. I'm to the point where I am making the changes for myself. If she doesn't believe they will stick, that's not my problem. At this point, she has made it very clear that she doesn't want to work on things. I guess I didn't see the point into getting into a pissing match with her. I think she would have taken my comments about her drug use as being defensive and trying to blame her for everything. One of the big issues we had in the past was me constantly questioning her about taking pills. Sometimes she was, sometimes she wasn't. But I was always trying to tell her who she could/couldn't hang out with bc the were a good/bad influence when it came to her addiction. In my mind, I was trying to be helpful and keep her accountable, but at the same time, I now see it as being a control issue too. I didn't approach these convos in the nicest way. What I thought was tough love, she saw as controlling. Now I think it was a combination of both. She was gonna do what she was gonna do anyway, it didn't matter if I told her to stay away from certain people. And in the process, she decided to lie more to avoid those confrontations, and I would get more angry and try to control more, and the cycle continued and got worse. Looking back, I there was probably a better way to deal with it. Me not being such an a-hole and more understanding and approaching her as a loving husband that cared and wanted to help. Then maybe she wouldn't have felt like she needed to lie...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/18/18 11:44 AM
As far as getting a life apart from her, I feel like I already do because she is never here. I spend most of my time taking care of the kids and not really worrying about her. I usually go out on Wed and Saturday nights with friends. Have been to several concerts in the past few weeks. Looking into getting a gym membership soon as well...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/19/18 05:00 AM
W came home last night to see the kids. First time in nearly a week. I told her I was going to go out for a bit. She seemed very cold and distant. I didn't let it bother me. Just kept a PMA and acted as if. Before I left the hose, she made a comment, "Who are you wearing cologne for?". My reply, "No one". I went to grab my keys and wallet and told her I was leaving, She did not respond, so I just left. A couple of hours later, she called and I did not answer. A couple hours after that, she sent me a text saying she was going to get something to eat. I texted back asking if she minded grabbing me something bc I was heading home soon. She said no problem. Still very cold and distant when I got back home, but again I didn't let it bother me. After we ate, I went to the bathroom and I heard her talking to a girl from her work on her phone and she left. I just went to bed. This morning, she was still being cold and distant. I left to go buy some new jeans, when I got back she asked where I went. I told her I went to buy some pants that actually fit. She put her shoes on and was getting ready to leave. I didn't say or ask anything. Before she left, she said she was going to talk to her boss about the girl from work, and added, "I want you to know I didn't just leave last night, workgirl didn't know how to close and I had to go up there and show her". I said OK...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/19/18 08:35 AM
I just caught up on your sitch. Sorry man, it has to have been rough through all of this. I keep thinking of sandi2's first thread for the LBS.
My sitch can be found here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2778449#Post2778449
I see some similarities in our sitch's except that my wife is home all of the time. All of her illicit behavior is online. But the push pull of "I want out" and "I want to stay" is there too.
I need to step up my GAL efforts, and I need to do more to detach from her. But every time I do she responds the opposite (draws closer). I have to stop falling for it and just keep the detachment going. Another author that I had a paid consultation with said that the only way I would know her behavior was lasting was after she behaved that way consistently for months. She isn't there.
I said to her this morning in a short discussion something about her "not wanting to stay". She immediately said "I do want to stay". Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do!
Anyway, I will keep you in my prayers. And your family, and even your W.
My sitch can be found here: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2778449#Post2778449
I see some similarities in our sitch's except that my wife is home all of the time. All of her illicit behavior is online. But the push pull of "I want out" and "I want to stay" is there too.
I need to step up my GAL efforts, and I need to do more to detach from her. But every time I do she responds the opposite (draws closer). I have to stop falling for it and just keep the detachment going. Another author that I had a paid consultation with said that the only way I would know her behavior was lasting was after she behaved that way consistently for months. She isn't there.
I said to her this morning in a short discussion something about her "not wanting to stay". She immediately said "I do want to stay". Believe nothing they say and only half of what they do!
Anyway, I will keep you in my prayers. And your family, and even your W.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/19/18 09:06 AM
Wow mtb, your W is a real piece of work. A lying cheater that abuses pain pills, cocaine and who knows what else. Falls asleep in the drive while smoking. Instead of encouraging her to see the kids more I think you need to talk to a lawyer and go about the business of protecting your kids and your assets. She is a danger to your kids, you and herself. Worse yet, she has no desire to change. She's got to hit rock bottom before she might see the light, but that could be quite a ways off yet. Until then, you have really got to get her out of your life. That may sound harsh, but I have had secondary exposure to a similar situation and a family counselor flat-out said "you've got to kick her out of the house before she destroys the entire family." I wish you the best, and I am very serious about consulting a lawyer ASAP. And discuss a restraining order.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/19/18 12:29 PM
AS,
As each day goes by, I'm starting to understand this more and more. She pulled the same old crap again today. She had the whole day off and said she would be around to hang out with the kids, so I could get out of the house to get some things done. Finally got off the couch where she slept last night at 10:30 this morning and said she had to go do a few thibgs for work and would be right back. Finally showed up at 2:00 to come in to start a load of laundry, and said she wanted to go tanning and would be right back. At 5:45 she was still not back, so I called to see if she was going to be home soon so I could go run some errands and she told me she was at the bar she works at and decided to pick up the night shift that starts at 7:00. Then asks me if that was OK. Like it really mattered what my response was. I told her that she could do whatever she wanted to do, but that it was not "OK". That she said she was going to do something and then backs out at the last minute and that's pretty crappy.She said she could come home for an hour, but I told her not to worry about it and ended the conversation. I realize that I'm being used as a free babysitter, laundromat, and storage unit. She's completely selfish and tells me whatever she has to to be able to get what she wants (i.e. telling me she'll be right back when she knows she won't because she doesn't want to be stuck with the kids at the house). I agree that she's gonna have to hit rock bottom before she even has a chance of figuring things out. I was really hoping I could avoid getting a lawyer this early in the process, but I'm thinking you may be right. As far as a restraining order goes, why do you think that would be necessary? She's pretty harmless, just extremely selfish and never around anyway. I was having trouble detaching, but she's been making it easier with her recent actions...
As each day goes by, I'm starting to understand this more and more. She pulled the same old crap again today. She had the whole day off and said she would be around to hang out with the kids, so I could get out of the house to get some things done. Finally got off the couch where she slept last night at 10:30 this morning and said she had to go do a few thibgs for work and would be right back. Finally showed up at 2:00 to come in to start a load of laundry, and said she wanted to go tanning and would be right back. At 5:45 she was still not back, so I called to see if she was going to be home soon so I could go run some errands and she told me she was at the bar she works at and decided to pick up the night shift that starts at 7:00. Then asks me if that was OK. Like it really mattered what my response was. I told her that she could do whatever she wanted to do, but that it was not "OK". That she said she was going to do something and then backs out at the last minute and that's pretty crappy.She said she could come home for an hour, but I told her not to worry about it and ended the conversation. I realize that I'm being used as a free babysitter, laundromat, and storage unit. She's completely selfish and tells me whatever she has to to be able to get what she wants (i.e. telling me she'll be right back when she knows she won't because she doesn't want to be stuck with the kids at the house). I agree that she's gonna have to hit rock bottom before she even has a chance of figuring things out. I was really hoping I could avoid getting a lawyer this early in the process, but I'm thinking you may be right. As far as a restraining order goes, why do you think that would be necessary? She's pretty harmless, just extremely selfish and never around anyway. I was having trouble detaching, but she's been making it easier with her recent actions...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 03:05 AM
So last night, W came home at 7:00 to get some of the clothes she washed. The shift she picked up starts at 7:00. While she's there, she tells me she is wanting to quit the bar job and find a job waiting tables during the day, so she has more time to be with the kids. She also said she wants to start MC, but not until she finds a place to move into. WTF??? Tells me she has her bff out in the van and that she is coming to work with her bc she was upset that her grandmother passed away earlier that day and wanted to get out of the house and hang out. She continues to grab a few other things (makeup, hair stuff, more clothes) and then says she has to leave because she is running late. Not sure what to think about any of this, except I don't believe any of it at this point. In a previous post, I had mentioned about her lying about her grandma being in the hospital so she could go out and party all night. Now she claims her friend's grandma passed away while she was grabbing a bunch of stuff like she was going to get ready to go out. Her friend was outside, and I told her I was sorry to hear about her grandma passing and she told me thank you. I've told her before that there is no reason for her to lie to me, that she can do whatever she wants. But it seems like she is saying she has to work when she doesn't just so she can do something else. I can't understand why, because she has told me plenty of other stupid things she's doing and I never say anything or try to stop her bc it's not my business. This behavior is just weird...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 03:23 AM
It is her own guilt. I've said to my WW multiple times "what does it matter if I know what you are chatting about with other guys online if we are done anyway?" That never got an answer.
But remember sandi2's list of rules, especially "believe nothing she says and only 1/2 of what she does". WW are living a secret life. And they are so caught up in it that the truth and fantasy begin to blend. They feel they have to lie to keep the illusion going. Further, WW get a high from the feeling that what they are doing is taboo! Being truthful about things doesn't give them that "I have a dirty little secret" feeling that lying does.
Further, more than likely the OM was going to be where ever your WW and bff were going. And that is what made her feel a need to lie too. Again, because telling you the truth, the feeling of freedom to do whatever she wants, takes away from the romantic passion of the A. With her relationship to the OM completely out in the open it becomes as mundane, in her mind, as her marriage had become.
And the one thing WW spouses cannot handle is mundane. Thus, she is not even being the mother she should be.
For me the thin, red line is a PA. If I were you I would tell her you want her stuff cleaned out today, and you don't want her on your couch anymore. If she is serious about MC, about trying to save the M, then she will realize that getting the boot is the final act of you moving on with your life.
I would boot her and have her served with papers (IE file for D). If that doesn't wake her up then likely nothing will. Please read this post by sandi2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554
Notice: *She is in complete rebellion, and will defy you when you make demands, threats or give ultimatums.
The time for boundaries with no real consequences are over. You need to take action. Kick her out. File for D. It could just save your marriage.
But remember sandi2's list of rules, especially "believe nothing she says and only 1/2 of what she does". WW are living a secret life. And they are so caught up in it that the truth and fantasy begin to blend. They feel they have to lie to keep the illusion going. Further, WW get a high from the feeling that what they are doing is taboo! Being truthful about things doesn't give them that "I have a dirty little secret" feeling that lying does.
Further, more than likely the OM was going to be where ever your WW and bff were going. And that is what made her feel a need to lie too. Again, because telling you the truth, the feeling of freedom to do whatever she wants, takes away from the romantic passion of the A. With her relationship to the OM completely out in the open it becomes as mundane, in her mind, as her marriage had become.
And the one thing WW spouses cannot handle is mundane. Thus, she is not even being the mother she should be.
For me the thin, red line is a PA. If I were you I would tell her you want her stuff cleaned out today, and you don't want her on your couch anymore. If she is serious about MC, about trying to save the M, then she will realize that getting the boot is the final act of you moving on with your life.
I would boot her and have her served with papers (IE file for D). If that doesn't wake her up then likely nothing will. Please read this post by sandi2:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554
Notice: *She is in complete rebellion, and will defy you when you make demands, threats or give ultimatums.
The time for boundaries with no real consequences are over. You need to take action. Kick her out. File for D. It could just save your marriage.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 03:39 AM
Mtb,
Steve is right you W is in full rebellion. She has lost all respect for you.
You are not babysitting, parents don't babysit their children, they shield them and raise them. You are being a awesome dad, while your W is living her fantasy. Please don't call yourself a babysitter.
I will like to add to what Steve has said. It took TxHubby 3 years to get to the point of being completely fed up. I can see you are getting their, but you are not there yet.
Your W needs a wake up call, she has to have reality hit her square in the face. If you are not ready now, you will be tired of allowing her to do whatever she wants around you.
Some things you could do is pack up all her stuff and have it waiting in the garage or by front door. Tell her you are not going to MC until you feel as thou she is ready to work on the M. Until then you will continue to work on yourself.
Tell her to pack her sh$t and get out. She might not leave, but the tone in your voice and the stance of your body will make a huge statement. After you make that statement don't say anything else, turn and leave, the last thing she will remember in that moment is the back of your head and body walking away (out of her life).
She is playing games, and you don't like being part of her game, so pull yourself out of her craziness and work on becoming healthy and detaching.
You can also, just start ghosting her. When she starts to tell you about what she is about to do and where she is about to go, " you tell her politely that you don't care and tell her to enjoy her night". Don't give her time to give you an explanation. Let her start to wonder what is going on, why doesn't he care anymore. Pull yourself out one foot at a time if you have to do it that way.
Oneward and forward
Steve is right you W is in full rebellion. She has lost all respect for you.
You are not babysitting, parents don't babysit their children, they shield them and raise them. You are being a awesome dad, while your W is living her fantasy. Please don't call yourself a babysitter.
I will like to add to what Steve has said. It took TxHubby 3 years to get to the point of being completely fed up. I can see you are getting their, but you are not there yet.
Your W needs a wake up call, she has to have reality hit her square in the face. If you are not ready now, you will be tired of allowing her to do whatever she wants around you.
Some things you could do is pack up all her stuff and have it waiting in the garage or by front door. Tell her you are not going to MC until you feel as thou she is ready to work on the M. Until then you will continue to work on yourself.
Tell her to pack her sh$t and get out. She might not leave, but the tone in your voice and the stance of your body will make a huge statement. After you make that statement don't say anything else, turn and leave, the last thing she will remember in that moment is the back of your head and body walking away (out of her life).
She is playing games, and you don't like being part of her game, so pull yourself out of her craziness and work on becoming healthy and detaching.
You can also, just start ghosting her. When she starts to tell you about what she is about to do and where she is about to go, " you tell her politely that you don't care and tell her to enjoy her night". Don't give her time to give you an explanation. Let her start to wonder what is going on, why doesn't he care anymore. Pull yourself out one foot at a time if you have to do it that way.
Oneward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 06:05 AM
I know what everyone has been saying here is right. Why does it have to be so hard? I guess my fear is that by kicking her out and filing for D, is that it's all just over. But at this point, I guess there isn't much of another choice. I'm thinking she doesn't want to start MC until she has a place bc then she can continue to keep the fantasy going. If she stays here, it would all come to a halt. She knows how committed I am to our M, and she is taking advantage of that fact. Thinking I'll just sit by waiting for her to get whatever this is out of her system, and then she can just come back home whenever she feels like it. I hate having to do this bc she has always been very stubborn, and I'm nearly positive that she will just move forward with the D. That way she can continue to play the victim and have this all be my fault. But at this point, she doesn't want it anyway...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 06:11 AM
She may very well move forward with the D. And only you know when you are ready for that potential. But the alternative is to continue in limbo. Personally I made the decision to only remain in limbo for 1 year. If after 1 year she is not 100% committed to the marriage, I ask her to leave and I go file.
Again, only you know when enough is enough, but I personally couldn't tolerate the behavior you are tolerating.
Again, only you know when enough is enough, but I personally couldn't tolerate the behavior you are tolerating.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 06:15 AM
Mtb,
You don't have to get a D until you are ready. You can make your W feel the reality without getting a D. Read up on detachment and GAL. I read detachment all the time. I used it as a guideline. Read Sandi's 37 rules. You also have to practice them. Do 180s. Use them and see which one's work for your sitch and which one's doesn't.
Onward and forward
You don't have to get a D until you are ready. You can make your W feel the reality without getting a D. Read up on detachment and GAL. I read detachment all the time. I used it as a guideline. Read Sandi's 37 rules. You also have to practice them. Do 180s. Use them and see which one's work for your sitch and which one's doesn't.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 07:11 AM
Maybe telling her that we need to start MC ASAP, not just wait until she has a place. That if she was serious about wanting to work on things she would be willing to start now. If she doesn't agree to this, she just needs to get the rest of her stuff and hand over her house key. That the way things have been going is ridiculous, I don't deserve it, and I respect myself too much to deal with it any longer...
I know her well enough, that I'm pretty sure she'll just take her stuff and tell everyone how her mean husband forced her out of the house. She wants to be the victim in all of this and likes the attention she'll get from it...
I know she needs reality to hit her, but like I said, she is rarely home anyway. So this won't be much of a change for her at all. Just another reason for her to be able to blame it all on me. Then it won't be her fault anymore in her mind. It will have gone from "I'm not happy and want to leave" to "He kicked me out and I have nowhere to go". Then she won't be the bad guy. And she'll be able to get everyone's pity and attention...
I know her well enough, that I'm pretty sure she'll just take her stuff and tell everyone how her mean husband forced her out of the house. She wants to be the victim in all of this and likes the attention she'll get from it...
I know she needs reality to hit her, but like I said, she is rarely home anyway. So this won't be much of a change for her at all. Just another reason for her to be able to blame it all on me. Then it won't be her fault anymore in her mind. It will have gone from "I'm not happy and want to leave" to "He kicked me out and I have nowhere to go". Then she won't be the bad guy. And she'll be able to get everyone's pity and attention...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 07:19 AM
She can always sleep in the van.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 07:35 AM
Originally Posted By: Steve85
She can always sleep in the van.
That's what she has been doing several nights a week. Even after I told her she didn't have to. That she could stay at the house until she found a place. But I think she likes the attention and for people to feel sorry for her. That way she can be the victim instead of the woman that walked out on her husband and kids...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 07:57 AM
mtb,
I have been there, worrying about how she will feel, what she will do, how others will see the situation. You can't control any of that, so stop trying. Do suggest MC to her. Don't make that an option, that will be you pursuing. When she wants to work on the M and go to counseling she will let you know.
You have to start detaching. Detaching will allow you to see your sitch more clearly. If she is sleeping in the van, then IMO she doesn't want to be a mom or W. It's time for you to get your respect back and it starts by you giving it back to yourself. You have to respect yourself first, before anyone else can. You start by not allowing another person disrespect you and cross your boundaries. You can do this. I know you can.
Onward and Forward
I have been there, worrying about how she will feel, what she will do, how others will see the situation. You can't control any of that, so stop trying. Do suggest MC to her. Don't make that an option, that will be you pursuing. When she wants to work on the M and go to counseling she will let you know.
You have to start detaching. Detaching will allow you to see your sitch more clearly. If she is sleeping in the van, then IMO she doesn't want to be a mom or W. It's time for you to get your respect back and it starts by you giving it back to yourself. You have to respect yourself first, before anyone else can. You start by not allowing another person disrespect you and cross your boundaries. You can do this. I know you can.
Onward and Forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 08:07 AM
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
mtb,
Do suggest MC to her. Don't make that an option, that will be you pursuing. When she wants to work on the M and go to counseling she will let you know
Do suggest MC to her. Don't make that an option, that will be you pursuing. When she wants to work on the M and go to counseling she will let you know
I'm assuming you meant to put "Don't suggest MC to her", and I didn't. The only reason I mentioned it was bc last night when she stopped by and was talking about quitting the bar job, she also said she wanted to do MC, but she wanted to wait until she had a place to move into.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 08:48 AM
Mtb,
You are right, I meant don't. Well don't mention to her that she brought it up either. Seems to me she was trying to pacify you. You are a good man and deserves better. Once you start treating yourself better she will have no choice but to do the same. Feed the good wolf. You won't let her negativity and victim hood affect your awesome life no more.
Onward and forward
You are right, I meant don't. Well don't mention to her that she brought it up either. Seems to me she was trying to pacify you. You are a good man and deserves better. Once you start treating yourself better she will have no choice but to do the same. Feed the good wolf. You won't let her negativity and victim hood affect your awesome life no more.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 12:25 PM
Well... I called her on my way home and asked if she would meet me there to talk. When she got here, I told her I needed the house key and garage opener. That if she didn't want to be here any other time, I didn't see a reason for her to be stopping by during the day while no one was here. She said she would be by to get her stuff sometime tomorrow. Told her it was time for me to move forward and I couldn't live like this anymore...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 12:36 PM
I did mention the fact that she brought up MC yesterday and if that's what she wanted to do, I would do it, but I can't just sit here waiting any longer. If we were going to do it, we needed to start now. She said she wanted to wait until she moved out and I left it at that. She also kept bringing up the past and things I've done and she thinks it's unfair that I'm upset because she didn't come home1 a few nights. My response was that I was not upset that she didn't come home a few nights, but that I was upset because I wanted to make things right but she's not willing to give me the chance. Her response, "It's not that I don't want to give you a chance, I don't know if I can." Then went back and started going over all the things in the past that I've done. I stopped her and told her that I was sorry for those things, and if I could go back and change the past I would, but I can't. She said she feels like I just want to say sorry and she's supposed to just forget about it all and she can't...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 12:59 PM
Typical victim move on her part. She also sounds like a narcissist.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 02:08 PM
Ialso want to add that I made the comment that it was time for me to move forward, and her response was, "So you want to get a divorce?". I said as of now I don't, but I can't be sitting around waiting to see what she wants. Similar situation happened last night when I asked her what she would do if she were in my shoes. "So are you asking for a divorce?". She had made the same comment several times before whenever I stood up to her bullsh!t behavior. I really don't think she wants a divorce, and it seems like she's a little worried that I may go that route...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/20/18 05:11 PM
Mtb,
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and do whats best for you. She keep asking you if you want a divorce. Tell her no, and leave it at that. No need for an explanation.
Pls don't ask her about MC no more. When its time for MC you will know. I assure you if you go now she want receive any messages coming from the counselor about recon or working on the M.
You did good with wanting her keys and the garage situation. If she was willing to relent you should have let her. Stop trying to convince her. She must see and know you are done. I know it's hard, but hard work is all that lies ahead.
Onward and forward
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and do whats best for you. She keep asking you if you want a divorce. Tell her no, and leave it at that. No need for an explanation.
Pls don't ask her about MC no more. When its time for MC you will know. I assure you if you go now she want receive any messages coming from the counselor about recon or working on the M.
You did good with wanting her keys and the garage situation. If she was willing to relent you should have let her. Stop trying to convince her. She must see and know you are done. I know it's hard, but hard work is all that lies ahead.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 02:47 AM
Originally Posted By: joejoe1
Mtb,
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and do whats best for you.
Stop trying to figure out what she is thinking and do whats best for you.
You are absolutely right about this, and it's something I need to work on. Gotta get her out of my head. I've made progress in the past couple of weeks with detaching, but I still have a long way to go. Thanks. I needed to hear that...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 02:55 AM
Mtb,
The more you try not to think about her, the more you will think about her. You have to find things to occupy that space. Listen to music that you and your W didn't share. Look at movies that you love. And the best way to get her off the brain is too GAL. Start by taking it one minute at a time, then one hour, then one day. It's a process. Slow and steady. It will get better. You will get healthier, and you will discover how much you can actually love yourself and learn more about you than you have ever known.
Keep up the hardwork.
Onward and forward
The more you try not to think about her, the more you will think about her. You have to find things to occupy that space. Listen to music that you and your W didn't share. Look at movies that you love. And the best way to get her off the brain is too GAL. Start by taking it one minute at a time, then one hour, then one day. It's a process. Slow and steady. It will get better. You will get healthier, and you will discover how much you can actually love yourself and learn more about you than you have ever known.
Keep up the hardwork.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 07:19 AM
I've really been trying to have everything I do come out of a place of love. And last night when I took her key and the garage door opener, I could tell it really hurt her. I'm tempted to give them back, but I know that would be counter productive. But it really doesn't feel like taking them from her came out of a place of love. And I know it doesn't make her feel loved...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 07:30 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
I've really been trying to have everything I do come out of a place of love. And last night when I took her key and the garage door opener, I could tell it really hurt her. I'm tempted to give them back, but I know that would be counter productive. But it really doesn't feel like taking them from her came out of a place of love. And I know it doesn't make her feel loved...
Tough love is still love. Enabling her isn't really loving her. I know the world thanks this. Think about one of your kids getting into drugs. Getting them off of drugs would require tough love, not enabling their habit.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 07:53 AM
Mbt,
I encourage you too buy "love must be tough" by James Dobson.
You are thinking that you were mean, but you wasnt you were loving. Love hurts and doing things that makes another person you love feel bad hurts, but reality and fantasy don't thrive together in these Sitch. When reality hits it hurts, especially for a WW.
Don't get to wrapped up in her feelings. Do what works.
Doing what feel right hasn't worked so far.
Keep up the hard work.
Onward and forward
I encourage you too buy "love must be tough" by James Dobson.
You are thinking that you were mean, but you wasnt you were loving. Love hurts and doing things that makes another person you love feel bad hurts, but reality and fantasy don't thrive together in these Sitch. When reality hits it hurts, especially for a WW.
Don't get to wrapped up in her feelings. Do what works.
Doing what feel right hasn't worked so far.
Keep up the hard work.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 08:04 AM
Thanks, Steve and Joe...
I’m glad this site and people like you are around to help keep me focused. It’s so easy to second guess yourself and backslide...
I’m glad this site and people like you are around to help keep me focused. It’s so easy to second guess yourself and backslide...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 08:27 AM
Mbt,
I have been where you are at. And I have been on here and kept refreahing my thread just to get an answer. So I know how it feels. We want confirmation that what we are doing is right and will work.
We can't provide an exact answer but we can Do for you what was don't for us. I was given much of the same info I'm given you. Coming too this forum also help me research different/better as well.
Onward and forward
I have been where you are at. And I have been on here and kept refreahing my thread just to get an answer. So I know how it feels. We want confirmation that what we are doing is right and will work.
We can't provide an exact answer but we can Do for you what was don't for us. I was given much of the same info I'm given you. Coming too this forum also help me research different/better as well.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 10:00 AM
If you think about doing everything from a position of loving her, you are going to wimp out, and lose the ground you've gained. That's just the nature of a LBH. Instead, do everything from a position of strength and honor. Not only do you need to have that mindset in order to find the man you need to be, but she needs to see you in that position in order to respect you. Doing everything from strength and honor does not mean you no longer love her. I hope this makes sense.
IMHO, it was a mistake to tell her she is welcome to stay there until she finds her own place. That seems to be all she wants, just a place to crash. But isn't it funny that she is no longer sleeping in the van and has moved to the couch? If she does get another place, I hope you won't be going by to see it, or hanging out with her. You aren't her friend. And once she's out, she should not bring her clothes over to wash, either. Let her go to BFF's place and wash, or to a laundry place.
You still love her and I'm sure it must hurt to read some things we say about her. In your heart you know it is true, but it still hurts. She has been addicted to pills for a long time. Mix a co-dependence with waywardness and it equals a disaster waiting to happen. You are getting stronger every day, and it shows in your posts. I know it hurts that she won't spend time with the kids. You can't make her be a good parent or wife. Once she is out of the house, I think you will be able to move forward a lot better. I hope you can figure out how to not depend on her for showing up or anything that requires her being responsible. In a M, it just becomes a habit, but you'll start realizing how you don't have to call to see what time she'll be there......or anything else. Just plan as if she won't be there.
It is so sad to see this take place in a person's life, but especially in a family. You are a good father. Your kids will know who takes care of them, and who loves them.
IMHO, it was a mistake to tell her she is welcome to stay there until she finds her own place. That seems to be all she wants, just a place to crash. But isn't it funny that she is no longer sleeping in the van and has moved to the couch? If she does get another place, I hope you won't be going by to see it, or hanging out with her. You aren't her friend. And once she's out, she should not bring her clothes over to wash, either. Let her go to BFF's place and wash, or to a laundry place.
You still love her and I'm sure it must hurt to read some things we say about her. In your heart you know it is true, but it still hurts. She has been addicted to pills for a long time. Mix a co-dependence with waywardness and it equals a disaster waiting to happen. You are getting stronger every day, and it shows in your posts. I know it hurts that she won't spend time with the kids. You can't make her be a good parent or wife. Once she is out of the house, I think you will be able to move forward a lot better. I hope you can figure out how to not depend on her for showing up or anything that requires her being responsible. In a M, it just becomes a habit, but you'll start realizing how you don't have to call to see what time she'll be there......or anything else. Just plan as if she won't be there.
It is so sad to see this take place in a person's life, but especially in a family. You are a good father. Your kids will know who takes care of them, and who loves them.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/21/18 01:19 PM
Thanks, Sandi...
You guys are all right, and I'm glad I've taken your advice, even though it's been hard. W came by for about 5 minutes to grab some things before she went to work. I had the doors locked, and when I answered the door, I smiled and said hey then went back to getting the kids dinner. She wouldn't look at me or talk to me, but it didn't bother me. I just kept making plates for the kids and getting down to Sgt. Pepper that was spinning on the turntable. She said goodbye to the kids and walked out the door. I didn't say anything...
You guys are all right, and I'm glad I've taken your advice, even though it's been hard. W came by for about 5 minutes to grab some things before she went to work. I had the doors locked, and when I answered the door, I smiled and said hey then went back to getting the kids dinner. She wouldn't look at me or talk to me, but it didn't bother me. I just kept making plates for the kids and getting down to Sgt. Pepper that was spinning on the turntable. She said goodbye to the kids and walked out the door. I didn't say anything...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 03:04 AM
Been trying to GAL a bit more to keep my mind occupied. Made it out last night with a few friends to an open mic. Tonight, I'm taking the kids to my parents to celebrate my oldest son's birthday and going to a meeting about the local recycling program later in the evening...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 09:16 AM
So W just called and told me she was by the house to take a shower and do laundry. I asked how she got in and she said she found a key in her purse (I assume she knew she had it the whole time). I told her to leave the key there, and she said she wouldn't. I told her I would come by her work and get the key. She said she would not give me "her" key. She got really worked up and kept saying I was being an A-hole. I told her I wasn't, that I just wanted my key. Then went into every manipulative play she could. Bringing up the past, threatening to not want to go to MC after she moved, calling me manipulative and controlling, accusing me of playing games, saying all I want to do is make her feel like [censored], etc. I finally just told her to stop. I told her she needed to get help. She's out of control. That I cared about her, and that's the reason I'm telling her. Of course, she says I'm just saying that to make her feel crazy and trying to make her feel like [censored]. There have been several people in the past weeks, including her friends, that have told me they have seen through her bs, and that she needs help too. I told her this and all she wanted was names of the people. I told her the names weren't important. What was important was her realizing that she needed help. All I got in return was F you, I hate you, we're done for good, etc. Honestly, I don't care anymore. She has become a person that I do not know nor want to be with anymore. I told her she could give me the key and come get her stuff sometime while I was there, or if she chooses to not give me the key, I would have her stuff packed for her. She says she has nowhere to keep it. I told her that was not my problem. Then she told me to not touch any of her f@cking stuff, and if I did she would be gone for good, call the cops, etc.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 09:23 AM
I think you could have stood your ground by simply asking for the key and not getting pulled into all the other stuff that you did go into?
I'm not doing great myself in regards to my H so I don't have a leg to stand on... but, ultimately if you don't want her there just have the locks re-keyed?
After its done just let her know that if she needs anything she can work it out on your schedule? You shouldn't keep her things indefinitely but don't threaten to put them out on short notice.
I'm not doing great myself in regards to my H so I don't have a leg to stand on... but, ultimately if you don't want her there just have the locks re-keyed?
After its done just let her know that if she needs anything she can work it out on your schedule? You shouldn't keep her things indefinitely but don't threaten to put them out on short notice.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 09:36 AM
MTB,
As LBS we have to perform with actions and not talk. Next time, don't make threats just perform actions. You didn't have to go down the road of telling her to give back to key. You could of just informed her that you wanted the key back and when she said no. Your next comment should be "ok", that's it. Nothing else, no more words. The next step is just actions. You go and change the locks. Actions speaks louder than words.
The way you worded the interaction here, it seems like you did come off like an a-hole. You told her she needs help, why did you tell her that? Telling her that sounds like you are trying to punish her and you are above her. She don't want the person who has caused her all this pain, telling her she needs help. Become the light house she needs. Pls read, "love must be tough". She drew you into a conversation that shows her you are still attached and angry.
She has to want to get help on hew own, you telling her that won't get her to get help, but you providing tough love will help to start that journey. Keep your road home paved smooth.
Let go of the anger. It will be hard, but you have to practice detaching lovingly.
Next time don't tell her, her things will be boxed up show her. Who wouldn't get worked up when a person is making demands and threats. I know exactly how you feel. I also went through a a-hole moment while detaching, I looked very weak and took away from my own healing.
Hardwork ahead
Onward and forward
As LBS we have to perform with actions and not talk. Next time, don't make threats just perform actions. You didn't have to go down the road of telling her to give back to key. You could of just informed her that you wanted the key back and when she said no. Your next comment should be "ok", that's it. Nothing else, no more words. The next step is just actions. You go and change the locks. Actions speaks louder than words.
The way you worded the interaction here, it seems like you did come off like an a-hole. You told her she needs help, why did you tell her that? Telling her that sounds like you are trying to punish her and you are above her. She don't want the person who has caused her all this pain, telling her she needs help. Become the light house she needs. Pls read, "love must be tough". She drew you into a conversation that shows her you are still attached and angry.
She has to want to get help on hew own, you telling her that won't get her to get help, but you providing tough love will help to start that journey. Keep your road home paved smooth.
Let go of the anger. It will be hard, but you have to practice detaching lovingly.
Next time don't tell her, her things will be boxed up show her. Who wouldn't get worked up when a person is making demands and threats. I know exactly how you feel. I also went through a a-hole moment while detaching, I looked very weak and took away from my own healing.
Hardwork ahead
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 01:24 PM
Yeah, I realize I screwed up. I wish she never would have called and I could have avoided the whole incident. When I told her I wanted the key back, she lost it and started acting crazy. I told her she needed to get help, because she does. And I did it because I care and I want her to get better with both her drug abuse and personal issues. Looking back, I realize you are right. Why would she want to hear this from me, or why would she even listen if it's coming from me. I ended up getting the key back. I sent her a text saying she could keep the key and I would have her stuff together for her, or she could give it back and come get her stuff sometime when I'm there...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/22/18 03:26 PM
JJ,
I just bought Dobson's book, Love Must Be Tough. You've mentioned it more than once, so I decided it must be worth the read. Got the Kindle version, so I'm gonna start in on it now. Thanks, for the suggestion...
I just bought Dobson's book, Love Must Be Tough. You've mentioned it more than once, so I decided it must be worth the read. Got the Kindle version, so I'm gonna start in on it now. Thanks, for the suggestion...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 07:21 AM
W came by last night after the kids were in bed to get some of her stuff. She hadn't been wearing her diamond ring for the past couple of weeks, so I put it some place safe a few days ago. While she was getting her things, she asked where it was because it wasn't on the dresser anymore. I told her I put it somewhere where it wouldn't get lost. She told me she wanted it back. I asked her why she wanted if she was checked out of the marriage. She said she wanted to give it to our daughter someday. I told her I would give it to her when she wanted to give it to our daughter. She said, "I'm not going to pawn it, I know that's what you think I'm going to do". And she was right. That's exactly what I thought. She's been talking about how she needs money to furnish her new place when she gets one. My other concern was the amount of money she has been spending on drugs...
Back track to 5 years ago, when she left the first time. She was spending a lot of money on pills, and ended up pawning our wedding rings and the diamond ring. This was actually after she had moved back in and said she wanted to reconcile. I couldn't find my ring and asked her if she had seen it. She said no, that it had to be somewhere in the house. In reality, she had taken it and pawned it along with 2 of my guitars, her wedding ring, and the diamond. When she finally confessed during a moment of clarity, the wedding bands and guitars had already been sold, but we were able to get the diamond ring back. It's hard for me to believe that she wasn't planning on pawning it again to get some cash for whatever...
Anyway... she dropped the ring issue. While she was getting her stuff, I was sitting in the living room reading, and she would make comments to me in passing. She was really trying to pick a fight with me, but I wouldn't engage."Thanks a lot for making me take my stuff. Now all my clothes are going to smell like smoke from sitting in the van. You're a f@cking a-hole.".... "Are you not going to talk to me now?" Me- I don't have anything I need to say. "You sure had a lot to say this afternoon".... And then as she was walking out, "I hope you're happy with what happens because you decided to do this"...
Back track to 5 years ago, when she left the first time. She was spending a lot of money on pills, and ended up pawning our wedding rings and the diamond ring. This was actually after she had moved back in and said she wanted to reconcile. I couldn't find my ring and asked her if she had seen it. She said no, that it had to be somewhere in the house. In reality, she had taken it and pawned it along with 2 of my guitars, her wedding ring, and the diamond. When she finally confessed during a moment of clarity, the wedding bands and guitars had already been sold, but we were able to get the diamond ring back. It's hard for me to believe that she wasn't planning on pawning it again to get some cash for whatever...
Anyway... she dropped the ring issue. While she was getting her stuff, I was sitting in the living room reading, and she would make comments to me in passing. She was really trying to pick a fight with me, but I wouldn't engage."Thanks a lot for making me take my stuff. Now all my clothes are going to smell like smoke from sitting in the van. You're a f@cking a-hole.".... "Are you not going to talk to me now?" Me- I don't have anything I need to say. "You sure had a lot to say this afternoon".... And then as she was walking out, "I hope you're happy with what happens because you decided to do this"...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 08:50 AM
Mtb,
Great job not allowing her to get you sucked into her craziness. She wants to blame you and you didn't get involved. Awesome. She noticed. It only get crazier from here. Prepare yourself! She wants to keep you wrapped around her finger. To have some form of control of you. When a person once had some control over another, once that control starts to being taken away, they start losing control of themselves.
You are detaching with love, she will try every trick in the book to get you back attached.
Once again great job.
Onward and forward
Great job not allowing her to get you sucked into her craziness. She wants to blame you and you didn't get involved. Awesome. She noticed. It only get crazier from here. Prepare yourself! She wants to keep you wrapped around her finger. To have some form of control of you. When a person once had some control over another, once that control starts to being taken away, they start losing control of themselves.
You are detaching with love, she will try every trick in the book to get you back attached.
Once again great job.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 12:24 PM
Any advice on what to do when she calls. If I don't answer, she sends a text asking me to call her. It's not about the kids, because they're always with me and she never puts forth any effort to see them. Do I just not call back and her get mad, or do I call back anytime this happens. I really don't want to talk to her...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 01:35 PM
Don't answer her calls. Don't text back unless it's a serious situation. When she comes back around have an upbeat and positive attitude. You are not available for her like your were when you were being a good husband.
She must feel the lost of you being her husband. Remember you are not being cold or mean.
Onward and forward
She must feel the lost of you being her husband. Remember you are not being cold or mean.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 01:55 PM
Thanks, joejoe. I needed to hear that...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 03:15 PM
Also... What do I say when I do talk to her next? I know I'm going to get the "Why have you been ignoring me" speech...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/23/18 04:31 PM
Mtb,
You tell her what you told her earlier. You don't have anything else to say. You are moving forward with your life. With or without her.
She knows how you feel. She knows you want the M. Talking will begin when she is ready to work on the M. Until then, detach with love, do 180s and GAL.
Onward and forward
You tell her what you told her earlier. You don't have anything else to say. You are moving forward with your life. With or without her.
She knows how you feel. She knows you want the M. Talking will begin when she is ready to work on the M. Until then, detach with love, do 180s and GAL.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/24/18 12:56 PM
Last night, W ended up showing up at the house at about 10:30 asking why I hadn't answered my phone. I told her I didn't have anything I needed to say. She said she was calling because she wanted to see the kids. I told her all she had to do was text me saying she wanted to see the kids, but she didn't. Instead she just sent several sarcastic snarky texts about me not answering my phone...
She was all worked up and asked when we were getting our taxes done because she needed money. I told her I was still waiting on some tax papers and that I wanted to talk to a lawyer so I knew what my rights were. Of course that pissed her off. "So we're getting divorced? Is that it?" I told her again that I didn't want a divorce, but that I had a right to be able to talk to a L to know what my rights were...
We talked for about an hour or so. She's mad because I took the house key. She's mad because "a month goes by and now you're trying to be such a great person". She's mad because of all the stuff from the past, and even though I apologized and she knows I'm sorry, "I act or want to pretend like it never happened". I told her that I was sorry for doing those things, and I'll never forget them, but I have forgiven myself for those things, and I'm not going to hold onto them. She's mad because I want to talk to a lawyer, and even asked if she could go with me to talk to one. She's mad because she thinks I'm trying to make things difficult and this is some sort of game to me. She said she was trying to make things easy and I want to make it messy. I told her it was already a mess. That no matter what we do, it's not going to be easy. Convo ended with her saying that she was going to be signing a lease this week and would be moved out next weekend, but still wanted to go to MC once she got into her new place...
She was all worked up and asked when we were getting our taxes done because she needed money. I told her I was still waiting on some tax papers and that I wanted to talk to a lawyer so I knew what my rights were. Of course that pissed her off. "So we're getting divorced? Is that it?" I told her again that I didn't want a divorce, but that I had a right to be able to talk to a L to know what my rights were...
We talked for about an hour or so. She's mad because I took the house key. She's mad because "a month goes by and now you're trying to be such a great person". She's mad because of all the stuff from the past, and even though I apologized and she knows I'm sorry, "I act or want to pretend like it never happened". I told her that I was sorry for doing those things, and I'll never forget them, but I have forgiven myself for those things, and I'm not going to hold onto them. She's mad because I want to talk to a lawyer, and even asked if she could go with me to talk to one. She's mad because she thinks I'm trying to make things difficult and this is some sort of game to me. She said she was trying to make things easy and I want to make it messy. I told her it was already a mess. That no matter what we do, it's not going to be easy. Convo ended with her saying that she was going to be signing a lease this week and would be moved out next weekend, but still wanted to go to MC once she got into her new place...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/24/18 01:20 PM
Today she called me and said she was on her way to visit her grandma and wanted to come by and see the kids and get ready for work when she was done there or she might just get ready for work at her grandma's and then come by to see the kids. I told her that was fine. I took the kids to church at 4:00, and she called as we were sitting down. She kept calling, so I sent her a quick text saying we were at church and then turned my phone off. When we got back to the car after church, I had 2 missed texts. "Can I go by the house to get ready for work and wait for the kids?" and then the 2nd 45 minutes later "Thanks" (which was sarcastic bevause she was mad I didn't respond to the first text. But I'm not one to be texting during church. When we got home at 5:00, I sent her a text saying we were home.
About 5:45 she came in and changed clothes and was gone 20 minutes later. During this time she told me she wanted the spare key to the van. I told her I would sign the title over to her and she could have it. That she needed to get the title transferred and get it insured. I didn't see any point for me paying for her insurance and she could have the van. Then she told me I should go ahead and file for divorce when I talked to the L next week. That I was doing everything I could to remove her from my life so I might as well. I asked her if that's what she really wanted me to do, and she said no. That she thought we were on the same page last night when she said she wanted to go to MC. But everything I was doing was in the direction of getting a divorce so I might as well. I informed her again that I did not want a D, but if she wanted me to file, I would discuss it with the L next week. She again said she did not want a D. Keep in my mind this whole time she is mad as hell...
Looking back, I should have just given her the key and kept my mouth shut. But at the same time, if she wanted the key back, is moving out, and wanting to be on her own, I might as well just sign the van title over to her...
About 5:45 she came in and changed clothes and was gone 20 minutes later. During this time she told me she wanted the spare key to the van. I told her I would sign the title over to her and she could have it. That she needed to get the title transferred and get it insured. I didn't see any point for me paying for her insurance and she could have the van. Then she told me I should go ahead and file for divorce when I talked to the L next week. That I was doing everything I could to remove her from my life so I might as well. I asked her if that's what she really wanted me to do, and she said no. That she thought we were on the same page last night when she said she wanted to go to MC. But everything I was doing was in the direction of getting a divorce so I might as well. I informed her again that I did not want a D, but if she wanted me to file, I would discuss it with the L next week. She again said she did not want a D. Keep in my mind this whole time she is mad as hell...
Looking back, I should have just given her the key and kept my mouth shut. But at the same time, if she wanted the key back, is moving out, and wanting to be on her own, I might as well just sign the van title over to her...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/24/18 02:32 PM
Please stop telling over and over that you don't want a divorce. You are doing better, making stronger actions, looking stronger too......but then you feel you have to cave to her manipulation and tell her again how you don't wan't it.......and that fuels her to keep playing this merry-go-around.
Every time you tell her you don't want the D, it makes you look weak. And she is going to manipulate you like putty. Look, everything you do from here on out is going to make her mad. Did you see how she twisted the truth to sound like it was you wanting a D? She knows the truth, but that is her way of sticking the dagger in your heart. Don't fall for her tricks.
If you don't want her in the house when you aren't there, then change the locks that key fits.
Remember, strength and honor.
Every time you tell her you don't want the D, it makes you look weak. And she is going to manipulate you like putty. Look, everything you do from here on out is going to make her mad. Did you see how she twisted the truth to sound like it was you wanting a D? She knows the truth, but that is her way of sticking the dagger in your heart. Don't fall for her tricks.
If you don't want her in the house when you aren't there, then change the locks that key fits.
Remember, strength and honor.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/24/18 03:28 PM
MTB,
She knows you dont want a D. Like Sandi says please don't tell her again you dont want a D. Keep moving forward. Shes only going to get madder(is this a word). Remember when I told you she will get more and more out of control, thats because she sense the control she has over you slipping a way. A WW uses anger as a way to try and get sympathy because it worked so well before. Let her be angry, anger tires a person out. She can try and stay angry for as long as she wants, but it will only harm herself in the long run.
Your W will try all kind of things to try and get back some control be prepared. Stop telling her your plans. She doesn't have to know you are going to see a lawyer. Just go. IMO, I think you told her to try and scare her. I hope not, but thats my feelings on your actions, about telling her about the lawyer.
Onward and forward
She knows you dont want a D. Like Sandi says please don't tell her again you dont want a D. Keep moving forward. Shes only going to get madder(is this a word). Remember when I told you she will get more and more out of control, thats because she sense the control she has over you slipping a way. A WW uses anger as a way to try and get sympathy because it worked so well before. Let her be angry, anger tires a person out. She can try and stay angry for as long as she wants, but it will only harm herself in the long run.
Your W will try all kind of things to try and get back some control be prepared. Stop telling her your plans. She doesn't have to know you are going to see a lawyer. Just go. IMO, I think you told her to try and scare her. I hope not, but thats my feelings on your actions, about telling her about the lawyer.
Onward and forward
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/27/18 05:40 AM
Just finished Love Must be Tough. It was a good read, and helped change my perspective. I recommend it to anyone on this board. Getting ready to start on No More Mr. Nice Guy. I think I could use some guidance in that department as well...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/27/18 05:51 AM
MTB....to echo what the others have said. About a month after my W moved out I told her I didn't want a D. She quickly put me in my place, mad me feel weak and wimpy. From that day on I vowed to never put myself in that position again and committed myself to getting stronger.
4 months later she sent me a text message saying she was ready to move forward. This time I responded by saying ok cool, just let me know what day works best for you so we could discuss. She never responded to my reply.
Just last month she said the same thing, that she was ready to move forward. I responded with the same, ok cool...sounds good let me know what day works to discuss. This time she made it happen and we will be D'd in in a little over a month.
The point is I got stronger and I vowed to myself that she was not going to hang D over my head. Put in the work, get stronger and you will feel the same.
4 months later she sent me a text message saying she was ready to move forward. This time I responded by saying ok cool, just let me know what day works best for you so we could discuss. She never responded to my reply.
Just last month she said the same thing, that she was ready to move forward. I responded with the same, ok cool...sounds good let me know what day works to discuss. This time she made it happen and we will be D'd in in a little over a month.
The point is I got stronger and I vowed to myself that she was not going to hang D over my head. Put in the work, get stronger and you will feel the same.
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/27/18 11:47 AM
Joseph
No one has the power to make another feel anything.
This is your power over yourself, your choice.
V
No one has the power to make another feel anything.
This is your power over yourself, your choice.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 02:04 AM
Joseph...
I get what you're saying, but my W isn't holding D over my head. She has said several times she doesn't want a divorce. In my case, she's twisting my words and actions around and telling me that I want a divorce. Taking the advice from others, I'm no longer going to say anything about it...
I get what you're saying, but my W isn't holding D over my head. She has said several times she doesn't want a divorce. In my case, she's twisting my words and actions around and telling me that I want a divorce. Taking the advice from others, I'm no longer going to say anything about it...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 05:00 AM
Also realizing she is taking up less space in my head each day. I unfollowed her on all social media. I realized it was just a constant temptation to see where she was at, what she was doing, or what she was thinking. I realized that those things aren't important to me anymore. It was only holding me back from making progress...
I got an email from my daughter's teacher yesterday and had to go meet her. Turns out my daughter has been lying to me about her homework and hiding it from me for the past month and had 15 missing assignments. It had got to the point where she was having to sit out during recess for detention. Teacher told me when she asked my daughter why she wasn't turning in her homework, she broke down in tears and said she missed her mom. That her mom is never home and only comes home to take a shower every now and then and leaves right away. It breaks my heart. How people do this to their children, I'll never understand...
I am chaperoning the senior trip this weekend to Cincinnati. We leave Thursday morning and get back Saturday night. My parents will be keeping the kids while I am gone. I'm looking forward to it, because it will give me a break from everything for a while. It will be nice to get away and be out of my usual surroundings for awhile...
I got an email from my daughter's teacher yesterday and had to go meet her. Turns out my daughter has been lying to me about her homework and hiding it from me for the past month and had 15 missing assignments. It had got to the point where she was having to sit out during recess for detention. Teacher told me when she asked my daughter why she wasn't turning in her homework, she broke down in tears and said she missed her mom. That her mom is never home and only comes home to take a shower every now and then and leaves right away. It breaks my heart. How people do this to their children, I'll never understand...
I am chaperoning the senior trip this weekend to Cincinnati. We leave Thursday morning and get back Saturday night. My parents will be keeping the kids while I am gone. I'm looking forward to it, because it will give me a break from everything for a while. It will be nice to get away and be out of my usual surroundings for awhile...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 05:34 AM
Your D9 is being affected by WW behaviour. It is expected this will affect your beautiful children.
However she has to do her assignments no matter what! Has she had IC? Can I suggest that you allow this? Someone independent to chat to is important. This is tough stuff and children can be resilient with one very loving papa bear parent. Oh and hugs.
Spend time with your D9, dad and D9 time, frankly you will have to be mom and dad to your kids. They need you more than ever.
I did say hugs didn't I, dads always need hugs from their kids. Even at 97, aged pa asked for hugs from this D63. D63 was more than happy to oblige.
V
However she has to do her assignments no matter what! Has she had IC? Can I suggest that you allow this? Someone independent to chat to is important. This is tough stuff and children can be resilient with one very loving papa bear parent. Oh and hugs.
Spend time with your D9, dad and D9 time, frankly you will have to be mom and dad to your kids. They need you more than ever.
I did say hugs didn't I, dads always need hugs from their kids. Even at 97, aged pa asked for hugs from this D63. D63 was more than happy to oblige.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 12:38 PM
W called me on the way home from work, and I filled her in on what was going on with our daughter at school. She got all defensive trying to say it wasn't her fault. I told her I wasn't trying to make anything her fault. I was just repeating what the teacher had told me. She got mad and told me she would be by to see the kids before she went to work...
W stopped by for about an hour to see the kids. The first half hour she spent sitting in the driveway by herself. I was busy making dinner, so I made an extra plate for her so she could eat with the kids. She ate and said thank you. I said you're welcome. That was pretty much the only interaction she had with me...
In response to Vanilla... I got the kid situation under control. I'm doing the best I can, and there are plenty of hugs going around. I tell them I love them every night before they go to bed, that none of this is their fault, and I'm not going anywhere and will always be with them. It's still really tough on them as is expected...
W stopped by for about an hour to see the kids. The first half hour she spent sitting in the driveway by herself. I was busy making dinner, so I made an extra plate for her so she could eat with the kids. She ate and said thank you. I said you're welcome. That was pretty much the only interaction she had with me...
In response to Vanilla... I got the kid situation under control. I'm doing the best I can, and there are plenty of hugs going around. I tell them I love them every night before they go to bed, that none of this is their fault, and I'm not going anywhere and will always be with them. It's still really tough on them as is expected...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 12:39 PM
Also going to look into IC for D9 and S8...
Re: Saying ILY... - 02/28/18 04:15 PM
It is important to tell kids it's not their fault however if you say it too much then that won't help.
The human mind doesn't process negatives well, this is especially true for children. So "don't drop the vase" is heard as "drop the vase".
It is important to say what you say in a positive way. Better to say "this is adult stuff".
Another observation be careful what you say and how you say it about other adults or children to WW. It sounds like punishment and will cause rage and pay back. WW may do all she can to alienate supportive adults and could punish her child. At the moment you may want to document this and I suggest you start to be protective of yourself and your children. You can't change WW stance by relaying this stuff to her so telling her isn't going to make her go "I must change this today, immediately because I am causing damage". She is more likely to become more entrenched in her views.
I truly believe in hugs and keeping your children's confidence.
You are truly becoming a wonderful dad for your children.
V
The human mind doesn't process negatives well, this is especially true for children. So "don't drop the vase" is heard as "drop the vase".
It is important to say what you say in a positive way. Better to say "this is adult stuff".
Another observation be careful what you say and how you say it about other adults or children to WW. It sounds like punishment and will cause rage and pay back. WW may do all she can to alienate supportive adults and could punish her child. At the moment you may want to document this and I suggest you start to be protective of yourself and your children. You can't change WW stance by relaying this stuff to her so telling her isn't going to make her go "I must change this today, immediately because I am causing damage". She is more likely to become more entrenched in her views.
I truly believe in hugs and keeping your children's confidence.
You are truly becoming a wonderful dad for your children.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/01/18 12:41 PM
Thanks, V...
I totally understand all that you said in that last post. I do have one question though. What do you exactly mean by documenting “this”. What specifically? And how would you word it?....
Also... I’m glad I got NMMNG. I’m about half way through and it has helped a lot. I was doing a lot of those things and not realizing it or why I was doing it. Specifically tonight. I’m out of town for work, and W sent me a text asking if she could stay at the house tonight. I told her it was locked. She asked if she could get the key from the kids after school tomorrow and stay then. I just responded with “No”. At first I wanted to tell her she could because the old me wanted to please her and thought that if I did nice things, she would notice and reciprocate. But I realized that was just a covert contract, and I would be doing it just in hopes of getting something in return and it was not what I wanted. So I just said no. She responded with “K. Thanks” and I left it at that. I’m learning that my needs are important and I need to be true to myself. And doing things for other people hoping to get something in return is kind of manipulating and controlling. I never realized it before. I always thought I was doing something nice because I cared, but deep down, I had expectations...
I totally understand all that you said in that last post. I do have one question though. What do you exactly mean by documenting “this”. What specifically? And how would you word it?....
Also... I’m glad I got NMMNG. I’m about half way through and it has helped a lot. I was doing a lot of those things and not realizing it or why I was doing it. Specifically tonight. I’m out of town for work, and W sent me a text asking if she could stay at the house tonight. I told her it was locked. She asked if she could get the key from the kids after school tomorrow and stay then. I just responded with “No”. At first I wanted to tell her she could because the old me wanted to please her and thought that if I did nice things, she would notice and reciprocate. But I realized that was just a covert contract, and I would be doing it just in hopes of getting something in return and it was not what I wanted. So I just said no. She responded with “K. Thanks” and I left it at that. I’m learning that my needs are important and I need to be true to myself. And doing things for other people hoping to get something in return is kind of manipulating and controlling. I never realized it before. I always thought I was doing something nice because I cared, but deep down, I had expectations...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/01/18 12:43 PM
We'll done mtb!
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/03/18 01:24 PM
I’ve done really well lately at not contacting W. The problem is her contacting me. Sending me random texts saying that someone says hi, or a mutual acquaintance passed away. I’ve not been responding, but it’s almost like once I start to get her out of my head, I get a random text and she’s on my mind again...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/04/18 12:22 AM
Yes, it's call3d hooveringand temp checking.
Block if it helps.
V
Block if it helps.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/04/18 12:32 AM
Keep an evidence file of
Texts
Emails
Calls
Recordings
Police reports of stalking
My abuse counsellor log
Doctors visits
For you that will include a separate subdirectory for each child.
You need date, time, type of interaction. Name of those involved and what they said. Responses. You can use a standard form.
Then you forward to a cloud space keep the date and time of uploading. Electronic trail. Complete as soon after the incident as you can.
I gave my L accessentials to the upload drive and kept anot Excel log with hyperlink.
I also kept copies of FB pages showing his behaviour as screen shots. This proved very important as evidence. It also was something I was able to refer to when I questioned my own sanity and experience.
I also recorded things here and doubled checked my logs against third party docs. I did find some inconsistencies on dates and times. That is inevitable.
This is emotional stuff.
Please Google High conflict divorce for resources on this.
It's hard I know. I will add some practical advice on these things to the Abuse thread in due course.
V
Texts
Emails
Calls
Recordings
Police reports of stalking
My abuse counsellor log
Doctors visits
For you that will include a separate subdirectory for each child.
You need date, time, type of interaction. Name of those involved and what they said. Responses. You can use a standard form.
Then you forward to a cloud space keep the date and time of uploading. Electronic trail. Complete as soon after the incident as you can.
I gave my L accessentials to the upload drive and kept anot Excel log with hyperlink.
I also kept copies of FB pages showing his behaviour as screen shots. This proved very important as evidence. It also was something I was able to refer to when I questioned my own sanity and experience.
I also recorded things here and doubled checked my logs against third party docs. I did find some inconsistencies on dates and times. That is inevitable.
This is emotional stuff.
Please Google High conflict divorce for resources on this.
It's hard I know. I will add some practical advice on these things to the Abuse thread in due course.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/04/18 02:53 AM
Thank you, V....
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/04/18 03:43 AM
Just took down all the pictures of the W and me in the house and unfriended her on all social media. Time to move forward. She's not woth the headspace. Don't get me wrong, I'm still standing for our M, but the everday reminders are not necessary...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/05/18 05:17 AM
Question regarding taxes. I am head of the household and have been the only one paying any bills for 2017. Should I file separately as married and claim the kids as dependents. W seems to think that she is entitled to half of the child credits, yet she only worked about a month and a half last year.
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/05/18 10:02 AM
Originally Posted By: mtb1981
Just took down all the pictures of the W and me in the house and unfriended her on all social media. Time to move forward. She's not woth the headspace. Don't get me wrong, I'm still standing for our M, but the everday reminders are not necessary...
Pay it no mind, it can change in a heartbeat. It's just posturing and in any case her mutinae are petty.
If you need Intel for a D get screens hots. Otherwise ignore as it is teenage girl petty.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/05/18 10:03 AM
Blocking is good.
V
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/06/18 05:24 AM
W has sent several messages over the past 2 days asking why I deleted her on Facebook. I have not responded. Just sent me another text asking if I'm ignoring her. I'm not sure as how to respond. I'm guessing I should just tell her that I have nothing to say. She called me yesterday while I was at work, asking why I was ignoring her. I told her I wasn't. She said she would be signing the lease to her new place today and would be by to get her things sometime this week. I said, "OK. Sounds good." and told her I needed to get back to work and ended the conversation. I really don't want to talk to her, but I don't want to seem like I am being rude either. Trying to come up with a response to her text...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/06/18 09:06 AM
Personally I wouldn't reply to the FB question. You are two separate peeps, she is moving on.
You can have your privacy, you do not have to be friendly if you don't want. And silence isn't rudeness, there is a technique called grey rock, in which you stay as boring as you can in responses. Bland, Bland, Bland such as I haven't anything going on at this point in time.
She is moving on as are you.
"WW, your apartment sounds good, no doubt you will move in swiftly and settle soon. That's good. I don't consider I am ignoring you and I will think about it."
And you think about in for half a second.
V
You can have your privacy, you do not have to be friendly if you don't want. And silence isn't rudeness, there is a technique called grey rock, in which you stay as boring as you can in responses. Bland, Bland, Bland such as I haven't anything going on at this point in time.
She is moving on as are you.
"WW, your apartment sounds good, no doubt you will move in swiftly and settle soon. That's good. I don't consider I am ignoring you and I will think about it."
And you think about in for half a second.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 04:21 AM
W pulled me into a 45 minute conversation yesterday on the phone over all the same old BS. Said I was ignoring her and it was not helping our situation. That it was things like that, that are pushing her away. I told her I really didn't have anything to say to her. If she needed to talk about the kids, she could send me a text and I would get back with her. Instead, if I don't immediately answer my phone, I get texts that say, "Stop acting like a child and answer your phone" or "I guess you're ignoring me again". Nothing of any substance though. She told me she wants to meet with the lawyer with me, I stuck to my guns and said no, that I wanted to see one by myself because I wanted to know my rights and there was no reason to be there. She thinks I'm going to go there and make her look bad. I told her I wasn't going to tell them anything I hadn't already told her. (Which a lot of it does make her look bad, but that is not my objective, I'm just going to be honest about the situation). She demanded that I give her the house key back so she could get her stuff from the house, and I told her she was more than welcome to get her things while I was there. She's still mad about me unfriending her on social media, and says I'm being childish. That we still need to be able to get along for the kids. I agreed that we need to get along and told her it had nothing to do with that. That I didn't really care what she was up to and didn't want a daily reminder when scrolling through my newsfeed. I told her I wasn't interested in being "friends"...
She signed the lease to her new place last night, and her uncle is buying her stuff to furnish it today. Uncle has been a huge enabler of hers for years. Anytime things aren't good or she goes on a binge, she complains to him about how much of an a-hole I am. Then he encourages her to leave and throws money at her. Of course he's only getting her side of the story, and he seems to be fine with that...
I will be continuing to take care of myself and the kids and be doing my best to avoid any of the drama that she wants to create. Lately, it's been threats of no longer wanting to go to MC if I don't give her what she wants. I've been sticking by my decisions, and tell her if she doesn't want to go to MC, that's her choice...
She signed the lease to her new place last night, and her uncle is buying her stuff to furnish it today. Uncle has been a huge enabler of hers for years. Anytime things aren't good or she goes on a binge, she complains to him about how much of an a-hole I am. Then he encourages her to leave and throws money at her. Of course he's only getting her side of the story, and he seems to be fine with that...
I will be continuing to take care of myself and the kids and be doing my best to avoid any of the drama that she wants to create. Lately, it's been threats of no longer wanting to go to MC if I don't give her what she wants. I've been sticking by my decisions, and tell her if she doesn't want to go to MC, that's her choice...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 05:21 AM
Keep it up! Her behavior shows she is not happy with losing the control over you that she so wants. In fact, I would tell her the MC is off the table. You won't go. Tell her if she ever decides to come back home permanently, fully committed to the MR, then you will consider MC. Until then you will do IC for self improvement.
All of this behavior is classic behavior. She sees you are pushing her away and she doesn't like it! Just stick to your guns. As flaky as she sounds it won't be long before she gets evicted from the apartment for not paying rent. And enabling uncle will only go to the financial well so deep before he cuts her off. Just wait it out.
All of this behavior is classic behavior. She sees you are pushing her away and she doesn't like it! Just stick to your guns. As flaky as she sounds it won't be long before she gets evicted from the apartment for not paying rent. And enabling uncle will only go to the financial well so deep before he cuts her off. Just wait it out.
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 05:55 AM
Thanks, Steve. I'm doing the best I can, but it sure is hard. I'm just glad to have a place like this to vent and get good feedback from...
As much as I wish this were true, I don' think it will be the case. Her rent is $900 a month, but she is getting assistance from CEFS and they are giving her $800 a month for her rent. And as far as Uncle Enabler goes, he has no problem going deep into the financial well. He did it before in 2013 when she left the first time. That time he bought her a car! He is aware of her issues with pill addiction, and still has no problem giving her money left and right. And in my opinion, handing over money to an addict is only going to hurt them. And in his eyes, he's helping...
Originally Posted By: Steve85
As flaky as she sounds it won't be long before she gets evicted from the apartment for not paying rent. And enabling uncle will only go to the financial well so deep before he cuts her off. Just wait it out.
As much as I wish this were true, I don' think it will be the case. Her rent is $900 a month, but she is getting assistance from CEFS and they are giving her $800 a month for her rent. And as far as Uncle Enabler goes, he has no problem going deep into the financial well. He did it before in 2013 when she left the first time. That time he bought her a car! He is aware of her issues with pill addiction, and still has no problem giving her money left and right. And in my opinion, handing over money to an addict is only going to hurt them. And in his eyes, he's helping...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 06:48 AM
You know the sitch better than me, but I can't imagine he is going to support her long term.
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 09:17 AM
I've put some thought into the convo the W and I had yesterday, and I'm confused as what path to take from here. There have been several times since the BD, that W has made the comment, "it's things like this that are pushing me away" when I go dark. Is this just manipulation on her part (trying to guilt/scare me into getting attention) , or is it something I should be paying more attention to (a legitimate concern and that it is pushing her away)?. There were times before the BD where I would not respond to texts or calls and I know that it upset her. I thought going dark was a 180 for me, due to all the pursuing I did after the BD. But the more I think about it, it might just be some of the same old thing I was doing before BD. I'm definitely aware that it has gotten her attention, and it seems to have shaken her up. I guess I'm confused as to if this is a good thing or not. Because if it's good, I don't won't to backslide by being more available...
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 09:29 AM
mtb, I struggle with the same. No question about it, that our bad behavior prior to BD causes us to question the right behavior since BD. But DBing and DRing are proven methods. We have to trust in them. As hard as that may be. They are counter intuitive but they do work.
I really believe your WW is simply trying to control you. Yes she is being manipulative. She might be even more devious knowing that throwing up past behavior would be overt, so she just complains about what she used to complain about knowing you'll remember the same thing prior to BD.
The point is that you are having an effect on her. Keep it up. The more you pull away the more curious she'll get. Remember, before BD when you wouldn't answer or respond you always came home to her that night! Now that she is moved out, it will really stick in her crawl that you aren't responding because she has no way of confronting it later like she did before. Believe it or not that is a good thing.
So yes your concern is legitimate, and I share it. I was bad about ignoring her phone calls and voicemails, or responding to her texts before BD. Maybe this is an approach:
When she calls, let it go to VM. If it is important she'll leave a message and you can call her back, but be brief and stick to only the topic she left a vm about. If there is no VM, then no response is necessary.
When she texts you, if she asks a question, answer it but be as brief as possible. "Can I sleep at the house tonight?" "No." If it is open ended use a few words as possible. "What do you think about me getting a cat?" "You should do what makes you happy."
If her text doesn't have a question. Read it. And don't respond. "Why don't you ever answer my calls??" "You ignoring me is making me not want to go to MC!" Just let them lie.
I really believe your WW is simply trying to control you. Yes she is being manipulative. She might be even more devious knowing that throwing up past behavior would be overt, so she just complains about what she used to complain about knowing you'll remember the same thing prior to BD.
The point is that you are having an effect on her. Keep it up. The more you pull away the more curious she'll get. Remember, before BD when you wouldn't answer or respond you always came home to her that night! Now that she is moved out, it will really stick in her crawl that you aren't responding because she has no way of confronting it later like she did before. Believe it or not that is a good thing.
So yes your concern is legitimate, and I share it. I was bad about ignoring her phone calls and voicemails, or responding to her texts before BD. Maybe this is an approach:
When she calls, let it go to VM. If it is important she'll leave a message and you can call her back, but be brief and stick to only the topic she left a vm about. If there is no VM, then no response is necessary.
When she texts you, if she asks a question, answer it but be as brief as possible. "Can I sleep at the house tonight?" "No." If it is open ended use a few words as possible. "What do you think about me getting a cat?" "You should do what makes you happy."
If her text doesn't have a question. Read it. And don't respond. "Why don't you ever answer my calls??" "You ignoring me is making me not want to go to MC!" Just let them lie.
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/07/18 09:34 AM
Validate
Valinate
Validate
I can see why you might think that, it's not my intention to upset you. Can you explain your words....... so I can consider a different response.
V
Valinate
Validate
I can see why you might think that, it's not my intention to upset you. Can you explain your words....... so I can consider a different response.
V
Re: Saying ILY... - 03/08/18 02:21 AM