Hi Everyone,
I hope this is the right way to start a new thread. Here's the first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2765203#Post2765203Basically my husband of nine years left two years ago for another lady and returned after eight weeks later promising to fix the marriage but never did. After living as roommates since his return he left again in September. He still shows no interest in reconciling. Due to financial insecurity and his lack of interest in our daughter I may need to file for divorce in the near future. I'm struggling a lot as you can see in the previous thread.
All, I feel like I got too far behind to respond to each of your responses in detail but I really appreciate all of them and keep reading them.
The latest is that two nights ago my husband arrived at his 'normal' time although I didn't expect him to come since he hasn't been coming and didn't call. He entered silently and looked sad and upset and walked into our daughter's room and sat down without showing much emotion. He built blocks with her for about 20 minutes. During that time I could hear her saying "Why don't you want to live with us? Why? Tell me why." His response was "because I don't want to live with anyone." Then she said "why are you so mean to mama and make her cry?" I didn't hear his response to that but to me that was one of the saddest things I've ever experienced. Hearing an innocent child struggling to understand why her father left, and her father not being able to offer any kind of comfort or regret. I feel so terrible for my daughter. She's normally a happy child but I fear how this will affect her future.
My husband stood up to leave and said he has to go because he has more work to do and he's sick. I was standing there at that point and asked why he came if he's sick? The last thing I need is to be more sick than I am, and I don't want our daughter to get sick. He said not physically sick, psychologically sick. Then he left.
I am researching lawyers today and will consult with one hopefully in the next few days. I don't know if I should stop my husband from seeing our daughter or allow him to see her. I guess I need to ask a lawyer. I don't know what's better or worse for her.
In addition to everything else I do wonder what will happen to my husband. Will he really be happy living alone in a big house with no family within a thousand miles after we move? Will dating any girl he can find with the right physical appearance be worth giving up his family for? Will he ever be sorry for what he's done? I feel I don't know anything about him anymore. He's so angry with and annoyed at me but it was his choice to cheat, to leave, and to do all these things. He's talked about how miserable he is in the past, how he doesn't like being married or having a child....is that normal healthy thinking? The only thing that would make sense is that he used me for immigration purposes and now he's "stuck" with financially supporting a family he didn't want. But that's his fault.
It's hard to stop thinking. I've been working on planning for the move and hope to take a lot of actions as soon as I figure out what's wrong with my health (in addition to what I know). I'm sure a big part of my health problems are due to being in this situation but I still need to get a final diagnosis.
Thanks again everyone for your support. I wish I had a group of friends in real life just like all of you!
I cannot imagine having to hear your daughter asking those questions, from his or your side of things. So sad.
Stay strong!
That's a heartbreaking thing to hear Nicole.
Your H seems confused...that's on him. You can't fix that for him.
As to the father/daughter visitations...if your daughter wants to see him and she's not distressed, I would continue with the arrangement until you've spoken to a lawyer. In later years, you can always say you didn't put a barrier between them. He has and will do that by himself.
If of course she's upset then that's something to think about, long and hard. But unless there's a very strong case against it, I feel she should have some contact with him. That's my opinion, but I'm not in your shoes and walk your road.
I certainly believe your medical issues can be linked to your situation, stress is powerful. Give meditation and maybe other destress exercises a go. Can you find a homeopathic doctor near you that isn't too expensive? Or swimming can be good for distressing and is low impact.
Take care, and don't worry about replying to every post.
Make sure you love on your baby and tell her that you are always going to be there for her. If she asks why daddy is doing this or that, just say you don't know but you will always be there for her and it will be alright. Just love her.
Oh Nicole ... Big hug for you.
Of all the hideous things WH has done to me, the one thing I will NEVER forgive him for is how he's hurt my son. My son was three when WH left, and in the first few weeks he cried every night for him. He stopped this and I thought he was getting better, with this famed resiliency that everyone says children have. I had started to say bedtime prayers with my son, because a friend had told me she felt installing a faith that would help her children through tough times was the single greatest thing she could do for them. When we started it was mostly gratitude type things and I would end by asking God to look after us. My son listened to me for a few weeks, and one night he asked if he could say a prayer too. My baby's first prayer? 'God please bring my daddy home.' I wept when I heard it. He prayed this simple prayer for a few weeks, and then he stopped. To this day I feel intense rage and grief when I think of this.
My son is mostly a happy child. And I truly believe this - as a good parent your responsibility is not merely to keep your child safe and happy, but to teach your child how to react to life's blows. Set your little girl up to deal with setbacks and she will always be fine. So in a way, we go before them, to learn the lessons, so we may teach them. It's not all for nothing, this pain.
...I do wonder what will happen to my husband.
Frankly, DON'T BOTHER. Yes I am SHOUTING that. You have too much on your plate now. You can promise yourself to worry about him when you are stronger. For the moment, your first and only priority should be your recovery, physically, mentally, psychologically. When you are stronger, you can help your daughter recover and heal and get stronger. At the moment you are in survival mode. That's not a life you can live for very long without damaging yourself. When you're both well established, then you can spare a thought for him.
I read his comment about being 'psychologically sick' as self pitying and perhaps attention seeking. If he truly felt that way, why isn't he seeking help? It's the ones who are psychologically unwell and don't know it who need our prayers.
I don't know if you've gone over to the MLC forum, but they have some amazing stuff and when I was reading your thread I remembered something that might be interesting:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2177869#Post2177869Look to Depression sign 8: unable to handle stress. I thought of this when you described how he shouted at you when you were asking something innocent. In a way, a 'diagnosis' is not helpful - whether MLC-er or not, the general consensus is that we can't do anything to end this experience prematurely. I only thought it might be helpful in rationalising his behaviour, and also for you to adopt the 'brace' position. If hes' a MLC-er, this will be for the long haul, and you might then wish to evaluate your position re divorce.
Can you get a separation agreement instead of a divorce?
Do not do anything that says or implies you are keeping him from his child, and certainly never put anything to that effect in writing. This will come back at you in the worst possible way. Knowing mine is a flake who cares only about himself, I told him from the get go in dozens of texts and emails that he can see the kids whenever he wants. I have been the one to say many times, when are you going to see the kids? If he tries to move for any custody, the status quo and his failure to step up will hurt him.
Thank you everyone so much for your advice. This is so helpful. Unfortunately tonight my husband confirmed he wants to get divorced. I don't have the strength to respond more but it seems sometimes no matter what we do (DB, 180, etc..) it's not enough to bring the other person back.
Nicole, mine has been telling me for years he wants a divorce. I have been trying to get him to sign a separation agreement (a custodial and financial settlement) for over a year now that can become the terms of our divorce after the 3 month waiting period. To date he has not filed or returned a single comment to the separation contract. He has now been with OW2 for about 10 months I think. I called him for the first time in 6 months to try to instigate a divorce conversation (which I want but my lawyer advises me not to file because of my situation). I asked repeatedly if there was anything he wanted to discuss, anything at all. He said no.
He may want a divorce, and he may file, and he may see it through. But there are so many stories of people like my H or the ones who start the process and never progress it.
I tell you this not to give you hope (and I think yours sounds like a much bigger dirtbag than mine) but because I don't think him saying this changes anything about your situation. Go on and do what you need to do for you and your child and stop worrying about what he is doing (other than protecting yourself financially).
Oh Nicole, I know that must have hurt and you probably feel paralysing shock, fear and sorrow right now...but Ownit is right.
Keep calm, and look after yourself. You matter...he doesn't right now. Give your daughter a hug and just act as if H has vanished from your heart. He doesn't exist to you at the moment. It's hard, but you are resilient!!
Hugs x
Thanks so much everyone. I really wish to write more details in response to your responses...they are all helpful and insightful. I still wish there was hope that my husband would realize it's all a big mistake and want to give it one more shot, based on the life we used to have which was loving and supporting, but I don't see it happening. The link about MLC does characterize my husband but he's only 36. The link also doesn't say what someone can do to allow reconciliation to happen. I hesitate to re-order the new DB book since I don't see any hope left. I accidently ordered the old one after losing the new one. I'll just keep trying to move on. I don't know if I have the strength though to actually negotiate the terms of the divorce with my husband at this time so I hope to delay it at least a month or two, although maybe getting it over with is better. I don't know. It's so awful going through this!
I was gutted when my husband insisted on divorce too. It was like being BD-ed all over again. And it is. You will pull yourself again.
I agree with Ownit. Being divorced from him is actually healthier if it means your legal status matches his emotional status. It's clearer and will be helpful in your detaching. Plus you've been absolved for any responsibility in this disaster. It's all on his head when your daughter wants to know what happened in years to come. I know it's not any comfort but those are the facts.
My WH is 38. He fits many signs of MLC but I'm not 100% sure, and frankly I don't know if it matters. I read somewhere that if earlier transitions were not made (i.e. as a teenager or as a young adult), then MLC can kick in early and extra hard. My WH matches this profile in that he was a very agreeable teenager, on the surface. I know he had deep issues of loss and fear at this age - he told me when things were good. He was petrified of losing his parents' approval. My MiL used to boast that while all her friends' kids were running amok, WH was the only well behaved nice kid that never gave his parents the slightest grief. Still waters run deep and she was looking to the wrong markers for success because as a human being, someone who lies and cheats and leaves his young family is a much bigger failure compared to someone who was stroppy and angsty as a teenager but pulls it together later. A transition is a test and my WH has never been tested - Mummy and Daddy darling have always been there to cushion the blows. They're even paying his half of the mortgage now so he can continue his playboy lifestyle with Horse-Face. So I would say age doesn't disqualify your WH from being in MLC.
I think the link doesn't say what you can do to facilitate reconciliation because, quite simply, I don't think there is anything. Apart from what you're already having to do, which is pick yourself off the floor after this devastation.
You're not alone and you're not an exception. If others can feel better and recover, so can we.
Very sorry Nicole, it's a terrible thing to go through for sure! Regarding the books I've read both and they are quite similar, the biggest difference is Michele made some changes to DR to reinforce that recon takes a lot of time. She said that some people read DB and were left with the impression that DB'ing is a "quick fix" but it wasn't her intent to make people think that. Since you've read DR before I think you'll be fine just re-reading DB.
The link about MLC does characterize my husband but he's only 36. The link also doesn't say what someone can do to allow reconciliation to happen.
The approach towards a WAS and MLCer is mostly the same, it's about giving them time and space while you work on yourself. The biggest difference is MLCers can take MUCH longer to come out of the fog. 4 or 5 years is not unusual. And MLCers tend to be much more angry/ resentful/ hurtful towards the LBS during the whole process.
Thank you so much 2016 and Ownit. Your words help a lot just in surviving this day.
I'm sorry to read this Nicole and big hugs to you ((((Nicole)))) It is horrible to hear those words for sure and of course you are sad...
Is there hope? Absolutely, there is always hope if you choose to leave the door open to a possible reconciliation. Situations go to all sorts of places and still some people reconcile. So do remember one of the 37 rules which says not to give up hope no matter how hopeless things may feel. His words and actions right now need not affect hope if you choose to remain hopeful..
Now, I would sit right back and not mention divorce again. If he mentions it, that's up to him. And if he wants a divorce, you can sit back and let him initiate every step of the way. In my case, I let XH do every bit of the running and I purely responded as and when..
I also think it was 6 months or so after XH said he would file before he actually did file...
Any ways my lovely - absorb this latest development, look after you, leave him be - and do consult a L and have your chosen L ready just in case.
Xxx
Now, I would sit right back and not mention divorce again.
I (kinda) disagree here. Only because of your financial situation. I would consult an attorney and figure out what you need to do to protect your financial interests. Sometimes that involves filing, sometimes not. But do what is in the best financial interests of you and your child. If he's benefiting financially by not filing, it could take a very long time for him to file.
AND NO LBS SPOUSE EVER GOT THEIR WAS BACK BY NOT FILING. Being a doormat or letting them take financial advantage of you has never brought one home. And the ones who want to come home will do so whether you have filed or not.
Then he can file and do all the leg work. you just need to sit back and take care of yourself. If I had a dime for every time WH told me he wanted to S/D I would be rich. Keep on doing your thing, refuse to engage in his game.
Friends, your input is valuable. I was too upset and tired last night to write the details of what happened. Yesterday I spoke with a divorce lawyer and a mediator (separately). I learned about the roles and services of both. Later I called my husband to ask what he'll be able to pay towards my credit card because he hasn't followed up with a payment as he previously promised. He said he had a big payment for the contractors working on his house, he doesn't have money, he's not sure, etc.. I told him the informal nature of this separation can't continue because until I get a new job, hopefully soon, I need his help. He said "oh I sent you $X last week and last month..." Basically there's no assurance from him that our expenses will be covered.
Given the circumstances, I told my husband I spoke with a mediator and shared with him the time commitment and cost of working with her to formalize his support to us in a divorce. He said ok, I'll think about it
Later he came to see our daughter and asked if he could talk to me. He said he thought for two hours and he's done. He wants to schedule with the mediator to get a divorce. He talked about how he tried to make things work with me and it didn't work. This is hard for me to accept because he left two years ago for a nurse with whom he was cheating and basically ignored me since he returned, so it's hard to see how he tried.
So that's how it happened. I don't know what I should have done differently. He signed an informal separation agreement between the two of us committing to paying certain costs and spending certain nights with our daughter but he's not honoring the agreement. He keeps saying he's busy, tired, stressed, etc.. which I'm sure he is, but he left us to live in his new house knowing I wasn't working and got sick. I really need his help.
I know pressuring my husband on the finances may be a bad move, but the situation is now critical because I'm running out of limit on my credit card and don't have reserves left. It doesn't make sense to pick up a random low-paying job here when I know I can get a professional job when I move, so trying to get any job here in this city just for a few weeks doesn't make sense. If I can get my health improved, or at least rule out surgery, I'll move and get a new job. My husband is earning a very high salary, one that is more than sufficient to help us out until I'm working. He's just irresponsibly been blowing the money on frivolous upgrades to his house and on other expenses that I can't imagine (another woman? who knows).
I'd love to wait for my husband to make the next move because I don't now, and haven't ever, wanted a divorce, but waiting for him likely means defaulting on bills and delaying the move which means delaying finding a new job. Basically waiting means my situation will keep getting worse and I can't let that happen.
I'm still struggling to understand how all this happens. I blame myself for continuing to try to stay married after my husband left the first time. I should have ended it with him. Instead I lived in another two years of misery and agony waiting on his promise that we'd fix everything which never happened.
My husband said as he left last night "I should have divorced you years ago and you should have aborted our daughter." Those are such cruel words. I know I shouldn't want to spend another day with a man like that, who says that in front of his daughter while she watches him say all these things, but I'm still in inconsolable because this was the man who promised to love me forever, who was so perfect for over five years, and who said we'd be buried next to each other when we die. It's still hard to understand what truly happened. None of this seems real. I still feel like one night the real version of my husband will come back and will be the same as he used to be, except I know that won't happen.
I wish so much to send a response to each of your messages. I'm so sorry, I'm just so upset that all I can do is rattle off this message for now because I haven't slept or eaten and I can't barely think. I really hope to catch up more tomorrow. Thanks again for all of your input.
Hi Nicole,
I'm so sorry you're hurting.
He sounds a little like my H, in that he may have got defensive when you mentioned D. He may not have heard how it was to help your financial situation, just heard that YOU were now standing up for your situation.
I think you were and are thinking straight and clearly, you need this financial stuff sorted and if H truly wants back into the marriage filing a separation agreement won't stop him in the long run.
Don't feel bad, this is just scary stuff, but it's only one more step to follow. He said he'd been thinking about this for two hours...that's hardly a life changing introspection, there'll be more time and more thinking. Don't panic. xx
Hi Nicole, that is a mean, mean thing he said..
For so many of us, the rosy tinted glasses come off during this time and we see that the person we thought we were married to isn't who we thought they were - at least not now. It is important to accept that and grieve the loss of what you thought you had, rather than wishing and hoping he would change..
Xx
I am so sorry Nicole for what you're going through right now. That is a horrific thing for someone to say, but on the other side, now you have serious confirmation how much he thinks of you and your daughter. That was plain cruel on his part.
I am rooting for your health to improve as fast as it can so that you can move and find a job in your field and start flourishing again. Your daughter is going to have that loving environment with you and you will be an excellent role model for her with your confidence and swagger back. Just hang in there for just a little bit.
If this is how this man talks, he doesn't deserve you as a partner and your daughter's love.
Thanks Sotto, Caz, and Maika. Yes this is the worst side of my husband and me as well.
I apologize everyone, I'm not trying to bombard this forum. Hopefully things will get under control soon, one way or another. But I find myself stuck between two options and I need to choose one.
One option will be to expedite the end to this marriage however detrimental it is to my health and psychological wellbeing. It seems my husband is fine with this option. He just wants to get rid of me at this point. But realistically I'm barely functioning right now. I can't even make a rational decision. There's no way I can face my husband in mediation these next few weeks and sit and talk without hysterically crying and probably ending up in the hospital because I'm barely making it right now. It might get my credit card bills paid, but will it fix the overall problems in our life? We still have to communicate to raise our daughter. We still have 11 years of history behind us. We're still linked in most aspects. I don't want to stick to a man who doesn't want me but I find myself desperately searching and wondering if there's a better way than this.
Then my thoughts shift to the fact that I've made so many mistakes recently. Due to my health and anxiety about everything I haven't been truly getting a life. When I did that two years ago my husband was back within eight weeks. This time I'm trying to stay busy and plan but mentally I'm not there. I'm not thinking or acting in a way that would make me attractive to anyone. I'm trying to look at myself objectively and believe I've been making major mistakes that have pushed my husband away further. On top of everything I'm so worried now about being in debt that now I've pressured my husband into divorce as an option to formalize this separation.
There's just the sheer agony of two years of a non-responsive, neglectful, cheating husband but I also recognize that all the major life stressors that we could face came at once. What if I take out a personal loan to pay my bills and cover my moving costs and just continue to stay separated until I'm stronger and more independent? Then file for divorce...
I don't know if I have that option now. My husband said he's done and he should have divorced me long ago, etc.. but I just wonder if I'd be better off being stronger first before ending the marriage, with that 1% glimmer of hope that possibly we were both not in our right minds and might see the light someday or if I should just expedite the end to something that wasn't meant to be.
I feel so lost. I'll see my therapist next week, will talk with friends, and would appreciate your input. I guess at the end of the day I need to decide for myself. Thanks again. I feel I took too much of everyone's time without properly responding to each of your thoughtful messages.
Sorry one more thing - I was reading some articles about divorce and separation. It seems once people are separated there's only a 5 - 10% chance they'll ever reconcile. Does that sound right? If that's the case then it seems most us here are doomed even if we practice DB.
In my state you can file an order for temporary support while the divorce is in process - did your attorney mention that?
When I went through my mediated divorce, my ex and I each had our own private attorney that we saw on the side. We would go to the mediator, then run things by our private attorney. They were a good sounding board and could give you an idea whether the negotiated results were fair and similar to what you would win in court.
Stop worrying about the effects of this on reconciliation. This part is about business. No woman here ever won her husband back by being a doormat. I suspect the main reason he hasn't filed these last two years is because he knows he'll have to give you more money in a divorce.
Keep your daughter safe, get your fair share of the money and support, and document EVERYTHING including statements like his last one. He sounds sociopathic and I'd move far away as soon as legally possible.
P.S. Let go or be dragged.
KML, there's nothing in my state except divorce. It's a very backwards state in my opinion. I like the idea of my husband and I each having our own lawyer plus a mediator but the only way that'd be an option for me right now is to either borrow $10 - 20 grand from a friend or to first get a job and save for it. As stated I also don't know how I can face my husband in mediation these next few weeks. There's no way I'm in a good enough mental state to get through this and fight for what I need.
Right now this is about business but at the end-of-the-day I need to move and get a new job in addition to getting support from my husband. I need to think a little more. I will definitely document everything. I will soon be physically away from my husband as soon as I move, divorce or no divorce.
Thanks so much for your input.
I'm in the UK Nicole and XH and me D'd collaboratively at my suggestion. It is a newish thing here to try and minimise the conflict of the D process. L's need to be specially trained in order to support collaborative divorces.
Normally here, there are facilitated meetings for you with both your L's present. But the L's tend to be on better terms with each other if they are 'collaborators' and there is less adversity in the process. For us, we did no meetings as XH is about 4 hours away and we felt we could manage to agree things without the need for meetings. I was relieved as I too dreaded that. I felt I could manage a Skype meeting, but it never came to that.
For me, the total legal bill was around £4K, which I was happy with. We didn't have children together, but we did have a couple of properties and co-joined finances. I set up a direct debit for £100/month to spread the legal fees payments. Then I would receive a quarterly bill and settle anything owing in that quarter. I was working, but pretty broke during that time, and it was manageable for me.
I just wondered whether you might have similar options over there? Also, please try and let go of the feeling that you are doomed if you are unable to save your marriage. Truly, a happy and peaceful life lies the other side of this for most people in our situation. I really hope you will remember that - your future happiness does not depend on the restoration of your marriage...
Xx
HI Sotto, yes that option does exist here. That's what I suggested to my husband since it avoids the court system and is supposed to be a less expensive and more peaceful process. Hopefully that's what we'll do if everything proceeds. I just hope it can be delayed a bit.
Nicole,
I'm sorry, but it is time for you to "man up". I don't know that I have ever heard, read or seen something as awful as what this man said to you, much less in front of your daughter. Make sure to note the particulars in a journal you should be keeping about his behaviors, visits, etc. Keep every email and text and think about your own communications as something that will be attached to a pleading and made publicly available. This helps me immensely in not writing things I will regret.
If collaborative divorce works in your state the way it does in mine, then I have concerns for you. Generally, with collaborative, if the parties are not able to reach agreement through the mediation, then the parties have to find new counsel, which means paying more money and bringing another counsel up to speed.
Your husband sounds extremely narcissistic. KML and I both have experience dealing with this sort of individual. Do some reading on narcissists and divorce. In particular, disordered people do not make good candidates for mediation. However, they are also horrific to deal with if you are the one filing, which is why my lawyer continues to urge me not to file (that and my H has thus far been giving me significantly more money than I am likely to get in court and that I even requested).
Make sure you hire an attorney who understands dealing with narcissists. I'm not trying to scare you, but this is not going to be a "normal" divorce in all likelihood and you need to prepare yourself for that fact.
I would try, as subtly as possible, to suggest to him that since he is the one keen for the divorce, that he file it. When narcissists are in control of the process, or believe that they are, then the process runs more smoothly.
It sounds like you do need some option however. In my state, I don't need to file for divorce. The first time he fails to pay me in a given month I plan to file for support, as KML indicated.
I am a little curious about the agreement you mentioned. Was it signed during the last separation or this one? Does it discuss what happens if you co-habitate afterward? Does it have force of law, meaning that you can enforce it in the court? Many times a separation contract can become the terms for a divorce (in my state there is a statute providing exactly that, but I am pretty much in the best state in the US to be a woman divorcing).
It is not acceptable for him to fail to provide support because of his extensive repairs to the big house.
I believe you sound like an abuse victim and you believe the things he tells you. The fact that you still want to be with this man is somewhat concerning. Have you looked for any sort of abuse counselor? They could at least make a determination about whether they think you have been the victim of abuse.
I hope you are reading up on how disordered people abuse through gaslighting, withholding, projection, etc. There are also concepts such as the Stockholm Syndrome and cognitive dissonance that can affect your perception. Please look into these things.
Nicole you can't sit by and do nothing or freeze in the face of fear. Your daughter needs you to be strong now and to support her. You can do this. If you couldn't, you wouldn't be here asking for help.
It goes without saying that you should not discuss this site, efforts to save your marriage, concerns about his mental health, your strategies for divorce, or indeed even your future plans with him. This man does not have your best interests at heart right now.
I hope you don't find this too harsh, but I am very concerned for you based on what I have read about your situation.
Nicole, I'm in total agreement with Ownit. You need to see your therapist because your H is a Narcissist and you need strategies on dealing with this type of person.
You take on the blame for things that he's done to you...thinking you made him this way. My H is absolutely nowhere near like yours but I have the same tendencies to do this too. YOU are not responsible for the way HE behaves! My therapist said these type of people get even more unbalanced once you show them you won't be treated like dirt anymore. Once you start sticking up for yourself be prepared for a major backlash. But don't let that put you off.
Just be smart...maybe as OwnIt says...let H believe he's running the divorce, but have all your ducks in a row. You be smart and get what you need to support yourself and your daughter.
What he said about you and your daughter was despicable. End of. You are a lovely, wonderful woman and mother and have persevered and tried very hard to fix your marriage. You've done your very best. Do not beat yourself up for your H behaviour. Stop that now.
Get financial advice. Get to see your therapist. Everyone is here for you xx
Nicole, I feel so sad for you. What he said in front of your daughter is the most heinous thing I've ever heard. You need to RUN, not walk away from this guy.
Really take what OwnIt has said into consideration. THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. There was nothing you could have done to change the outcome of this marriage that you didn't do.
Your marriage to this a$$hat is over. In the near future, you will rejoice in that fact. But you have to do everything you can to take care of yourself and your D, which includes taking care of your finances (meaning getting a formal support agreement in place... oh, and not being able to support you because he has to pay his contractors..... that's crap..... he needs to pay YOU first.), and your health, physical AND emotional.
As mentioned, you need to keep a journal, keep all his emails, and anything you write needs to be written as if it will be used against you in court. Right now, you can't restrict his access to your D, but if you document things like what he said in front of her, a court may very well do so.
OMG, the rage I felt reading the parting words your husband said to you. I wish I had been there because I would likely kick him in the nards. You are an AMAZING woman and he is a stupid, stupid, stupid idiot. You cannot reconcile with this man. If you divorce him and and he gets a clue and then does the work to woo you back (and work on his awfulness) then you can reconcile. If my husband said I should have aborted my kids I would be blinded with rage.
This is the bottom line, do whatever you have to for protecting yourself and child financially, emotionally and physically. You MUST go NC as much as possible. I know in my state I can have WH pay back legal fees of the divorce. Set a list with concrete goals, rule in or out surgery and plan from there. Where is your family? Is there anyone you can reach out to?
Nicole
It would be much better to analyse your WH behaviour than to label him a narc or anything else. Without a proper clinical diagnosis it really isn't helpful.
The key issue is if you have been a target of a systematic abuser. If you have sadly there is no turn around as it was there before you were involved and will extend afterwards.
I sense you are very confused and probably targeted. And if that is so then you will need help from an abuse support group IRL. Your health will be poor because trauma does this. Extreme self care for you and your lovely D.
It's awful, truly to be a target in this way. And the things abusers say go beyond mean and vindictive. Disgusting and beyond the pale.
The Giggalo told me that my father should smother my mother, it was easy enough. He also said my body was disgusting and he felt sick just looking at me. That he hoped I would trip and fall out of a first floor balcony window.
These things are sickening and evil. Your WH and his potty mouth need to be recorded for public consumption.
My view is very straightforward Nicole, you act on mediation when you are ready. If you aren't up to dealing with it then don't do it. And when you do have full support from a licensed abuse counsellor for battered women. To do otherwise may further traumatise. Go at your pace.
You seem very low indeed in mind and spirit. I am here to tell you that you can heal, to do that you will need complete NC and peace and quiet. That's hard if you haven't accepted that you were a target for abuse. Even reading the abuse thread takes energy although from your description I sense high levels of abuse. And abuse isn't about physical contact, it might be easy to recognise if it was so.
It's ok to feel this disorientated with this. It's also ok to be confused by your abuser. It's clearly trauma bond experience and only NC will assist you.
Big hugs
V
Hi Nicole, just checking in to see if you're okay?
Hugs, xx
Thank you so much everyone. I didn't have a chance to write today but I'll do my best to respond to each of your posts tomorrow including the past due ones. Thanks again!
Nicole,
I often think the word abuse is thrown around to lightly around here. I am afraid in your case, it may actually be true. Emotional abuse really appears evident here. It wasn't like one day he was such a nice guy and then he flipped. He has been this way for a while. To tell you he wished he aborted your daughter in front of her?! That is actually EVIL.
You are worried about peaceful collaborative mediation, but the odds are slim you are going to get that from a sociopath like your husband. Unless you give him exactly what he wants. I also hate hate hate to say it, but I don't see him being a significant figure in your daughter's life, so keeping the peace in coparenting shouldn't be such a concern.
I agree with KML. Take your daughter as far away from this man as legally possible.
You have been made to believe you are not strong enough. BUT YOU ARE! you need to believe in your strength.
Sometimes the hardest part of this journey is mourning that the person we married is not the person we thought they were. It's like mourning a death. But moving past the denial part of that grieving must be done. For you and your daughter's sake. Get the help of any family and friend you might have and escape this man. Please. For you and your daughter. That kind of monster isn't going to become a man your daughter should be around overnight.
I am sorry to be so blunt, but your daughter needs you to be strong. You need to lawyer up, get as away as you can and rally the help of anyone that you can around you.
You need to look in that mirror everyday and tell yourself how strong you are. Because you are going to need to be strong for two. I know you can do it.
Hi Everyone, I'll just respond generally quickly and then see if I'm able to retroactively respond to your specific posts which I appreciate so much.
Regarding being an abuse victim, honestly I'm not sure. I did read the Zelda thread and looked some things up online. Definitely neglect, emotional indifference, and withholding affection are things that my husband has done. He's never been controlling in any way though. And he's not a narcissist. It's always nice to find a label for someone that can explain everything but in my husband's case I'm certain that's not his problem. I've seen four marriage counselors since we first got married and a psychologist and none of them have ever suggested abuse as being a problem for us. No one who knows us has suggested narcissism in relation to my husband either. So I'm not sure. Maybe you all see something that I can't see, and that no one else has seen. I don't have enough clarity in my thoughts currently to be sure.
Up until he left two years ago my husband rarely ever meant to hurt me. On the contrary, I would attack and criticize him in the years leading up to his departure for things he did wrong and he would apologize profusely. For the first seven years we knew each other, and five years that we were married, my husband would apologize even when I was the one wrong. For many years I felt he was the greatest man in the world. He did so much for me. He always supported me.
Something did snap in my husband around two-and-a-half years ago. Suddenly he stopped talking to me. He would sit staring at the wall or stay in his room. When I'd ask him what's wrong he'd say "I don't like my life. I don't like my career. I don't like being married." Then a few months later he left. He was out dating and spending hours in the gym every night and almost got kicked out of his residency program.
Then he came back. He said he couldn't live without us. He said we'd fix everything. Then he never wanted to fix things. I'd ask him, I'd look miserable, I'd try to carry on alone, I'd reach out and he'd reject me and I'd spend nights in tears and he'd get angry.
Now here we are. He's gone and he's saying these terrible words and wants to get divorced. He said two nights ago "he just wants to be free." I guess he has no love for me and just wants to be free, away from me, to live his life.
There is something mentally wrong with my husband. He's wrecked his life financially, he's anti-social, he's acting erratically, doesn't spend time with his daughter, and he has no empathy for me being sick recently.
I'm really not sure how to categorize our situation. It sounds similar to many other people here who are losing their spouses. In the case of my husband and I, I believe we're both emotionally weak and drained right now and living in a crisis.
The hardest part for me is that my husband has always apologized deeply for anything bad he says, but these last few weeks there are no apologies whatsoever. Just anger that escalates when I add any pressure or show emotion myself.
I'm just exhausted. I have no idea. The feedback from the psychologist who met my husband is that he's "not grounded, has no sense of identity, is immature, and doesn't know where he's headed in life."
That's why sometimes it's hard for me to not wonder if my husband will ever return to his right mind and at least be sorry, or if this is his real self and he was just acting all those years.
It's too hard to make sense of everything. I just know I have to go through a divorce now and all my dreams have been shattered. I'll still work on responding to you individual posts as much as I can!
Ok so I rattled off that message but realized I didn't elaborate on the narcissist part. I don't believe my husband is a narcissist because he's not a controlling person. He doesn't have high self-esteem and doesn't seek admiration from others...some of the things they list on the narcissism personality resource places. He used to be an empathetic person and from what I see, he still is to everyone else except me. I hear him on the phone and he's still the same nice guy to everyone else. Just not me.
I think my husband may have something like bi-polar disorder, addiction tendencies (to spending money, shopping), or PTSD. Maybe he's depressed. Maybe he just wasn't equipped to deal with life here in the US coming from a country where life was very simple. He lived with his parents, who took care of everything for him, before he came here. Then I took care of everything when we were married up until a few years ago. Maybe he wants to be free to live his own life because he feels like he didn't get that option and I'm the obstacle.
I still can't understand it. Maybe I'm all wrong and he's a narcissist but I know one of the limitations of forums like these is that we only get a small snapshot into each other's lives and marriages. Our perceptions of things may be different than reality.
I'll try to stop there or else I'll keep writing forever!
Trying to catch up now from the beginning of thread number two:
Subitai - Thanks. It's so hard when our kids have to hear their parents fight. It breaks my heart.
Caz - I really to do meditation and other exercises but currently I'm too exhausted at the end-of-the-day. My daughter and I do kids yoga together and go for walks. I'm seeing a therapist. I did a massage the other week. I'm really, really financially broke at the moment so I may have to wait on a homeopathic doctor but I'm doing additional medical tests this week and next to see if something else is wrong.
Joe - I'm doing everything within my power to love my daughter and offer her security. We're together all the time except when she's in preschool for three hours per day. She's fallen asleep in my arms every night of her life and we sleep together in the same bed. I keep telling her that I'll always love her and care for her and still love her father even though he's gone.
2016sux - It really sounds like my husband is going through a MLC. That's what the psychologist also suggested as well even though my husband isn't quite within the normal age range. That's so sad about how your son suffered from your husband leaving. How is your life going now?
Ownit - It's hard to tell if that's good or bad that your husband asked for a divorce but never filed. I'm sure you wish to have closure at some point. I'd love to delay my divorce to be stronger first. My husband, on the other hand, came two nights ago and said he wants to do it as fast as possible so he can be free.
Anotherstander - I guess my husband will have all the time in the world when he's divorced and free from this curse that he calls marriage. I have no choice but to go through with it and try to move on.
Sotto - I wish so badly there'd be hope. Or I wish so badly that I'll find someone that I'll love more than my husband not in 20 years but soon. I know it can't be right away, but one thing I realize is how much I loved being married and how much I'd love to share life with someone.
KML - I did talk to an attorney and mediator last week and will be doing more on the legal end this week.
PsySara - It seems my husband is working on acquiring knowledge of the divorce process so he can proceed right away. Up until last week he never mentioned divorce before. He always just said he wanted to think. Now he wants to get divorced right away. It's such a relief and so amazing that your husband never filed. I'd do anything to be in your shoes!
Maika - Thanks so much for your words of encouragement!
Ownit - I think I covered most of your points but the agreement my husband and I signed is just a written agreement between the two of us that covers financial issues and child care issues until we reconcile or divorce. There's no legal separation here in our state so that's all I could do.
Jim - Thanks for your clear directions and for saying it's not my fault. I did contribute but I agree it's not my fault that my husband cheated, left twice, isn't paying stuff, etc... I do have a lot of documentation but hope it won't get to the point where we have a full court battle. I just hope there's a better way.
PsySara - Yeah what my husband said about our daughter is unforgivable. That's the worst thing he's ever said and I hope someday he'll repent before God if he ever thinks deeply enough to be sorry for his actions. My family is far away geographically and I'm not close to them. I don't think I'll tell them about the divorce for at least a year or until I'm feeling better. Getting them involved would be a disaster. I do wish though I had a supportive family. If I did I'd at least feel comfortable knowing I can go to live with them if all else fails, but that would never be an option. I have to go through this alone and with the help of friends and colleagues.
All, I'm so sorry for the messages to which I didn't respond from the first thread but I'm so far behind. Again thank you so much for your input. I'm so thankful for all of you.
OMG... I can't believe he said that to you, let alone in front of your daughter! That is NUTS!
Nicole:
It is good that you are thinking through the issues. I think as time passes and you get some distance from the situation, you may view it differently. Whatever is wrong with him, it is not a good situation for you or your daughter and you need to discuss with an attorney the implications for whatever path you take and what happens if he is not cooperative in the process.
OK Nicole
Don't try to put a label on him, it will cause great difficulties.
Narc isn't in any case about control. Narc is about selfishness and it's in the DSM, everyone needs some narc and it's only when it goes high it's a DSM issuE.
What I see is abuse which is control. To get money, resources and ones own way. Don't assume that control is abuse or that abuse is always control in a physical way.
Comments such as you have had about your D in front of your D are abuse. Deliberate and anti social. I have no doubts about it.
And where there is one rat there are 50 hidden.
Comments like this show Intent and he feels comfortable enough to flip it away. There has been no apology either.
You stayed with your D in horrible places whilst he kinged himself in luxury.
Compulsion and addiction are low impulse disorders, and he shows no sign of wanting to control those.
This is truly hard accepting that you are a target for abuse. That's how targets are.
Abuse does not have to be ranting and raging, there are other kinds which are subtle gaslighting.
Whether he gaslighted or he raged the end result is he is king of his own castle and would have his subjects subjugated.
If you can't take to the abuse thread and you have hunted to hear there is no issue with him, possibly because that's what you wanted to hear. Then try another resource, Google the Freedom programme it's online and great to help you identify abusers and their type. It's called living with the dominator. I am a Freedom abuse counsellor, and I think someone with these skills can help you more than any IC who can cure him.
Abuser learn from IC, they get better at their techniques.
I know you are struggling with this and it is a great struggle.
Only by helping yourself can you live a free life for yourself and your beautiful D.
Please consider abuse resources IRL.
V
Hi Nicole,
Thank you for giving us some in depth information. Try to concentrate on you and your health right now. Please don't feel you have to respond to everyone individually...we all know how hard it is to keep track. And what an emotional time you're having. The most important issue is for you to speak to your attorney about your financial state. Hopefully they can advise you on your best course of action to get the financial outcome you need for you and your daughter.
I'm so sorry you're going through this and money is so tight. Just go for those walks with your daughter, breath the fresh air, anything that helps you stay calm. I used to put some music on and dance around the kitchen with my children, it took me out of my funk. I know you're exhausted but even five mins can be exhilarating and distraction enough. Everything can seem like hard work right now. Just do a little at a time.
Have you heard about the tapping solution? It's a series of taps on the face and chest...it sounds bizarre but it works to calm anxiety and depression. My counsellor introduced it to me to help me with flashbacks and other issues regarding my H. It may be a useful tool for you, if you look it up I'm sure there would be info online.
Good luck and huge hugs on the medical tests. Here for you x
Ownit, thanks. Yeah I'm working on the legal side of things in between medical tests and hope to have a clear path in place to get out of this disaster.
Vanilla, my husband's actions recently have been abusive in nature for sure. That wasn't him previously though. Whatever changed in him, he doesn't show signs of getting treatment and there's nothing I can do. I checked the Freedom Programme really briefly but it looks like I'd need to watch some videos or enroll in a training. I'm not sure if I'll be able to do that in the near future but I'll remember it for as soon as possible. I did review a few other abuse websites but I don't see a strong match with my husband based on how he's been over the long term. If anything I've done more of those things than he up until recently. My mother however was verbally abusive throughout my upbringing and I did view myself as a victim of her behavior. I also had no idea what a narcissist was in my 20's but now looking back I believe the guy I was dating for eight years then had those tendencies. So I was and am vulnerable to such people and despite heavily vetting my husband with friends and colleagues he turned out bad too. My husband, however, wasn't this selfish flaming monster for the first seven years. This is a new side of him. As the psychologist says my husband isn't 'grounded' so I guess it didn't take much for him to go flying off the deep end after he started working and experiencing real American life Somewhere along the way he cracked. I went over to my husband's house when he was at work last week (I'm a legal owner with a key) just to see what was happening there since I imagined it must be so beautiful by now. I wanted to see if what he's been telling me matched what I saw. I was shocked to see barely any progress on the construction. There wasn't even a kitchen. There were construction materials everywhere and dust. My husband's room where he's been living is like a room full of trash - crumpled clothing and papers lining the entire floor. I was honestly shocked. I thought for sure after all that money and all those excuses the house was done, but it wasn't. So where's all his money going? I don't know. He obviously did some really bad things and is in big financial trouble. So again regarding my husband I don't know. There's too much I don't know. He's exhibited abusive qualities recently but am I a victim of abuse who needs to see an abuse counselor? I don't know. I think I should just get through the divorce and medical tests for now since I'm not sure I have the luxury to add anything new. I volunteered for a crisis hotline for many years and listened to so many stories of abuse. It's not quite a match with what's happening to me with my husband although that's not to say what my husband has become recently isn't an abuser. The marriage is ending so I won't be around to see if the abusive qualities stick with him. My husband's behavior is a close match to what we know people having MLC's and affairs. At the end-of-the-day, my husband no longer loves me. He could care less what happens to me now. He turned into a stranger much like the other stories here.
Caz, thanks for your support and understanding. I'm trying so hard to plan a few things each day that my daughter and I can do together that help with the stress. That's so cute you used to dance with your kids. I'll try the tapping solution next time I feel like I can't take it anymore (which is a few times every day). I'll see my therapist on Wednesday and will ask if she's heard of it and has other suggestions as well.
Nicole,
I think you are going to have to do your best to let go. You have to start healing. You and your girl deserve to be happy!
Joe, Yes I have no choice. I'll have to start over again at 40 but there's no choice.
I thought for sure after all that money and all those excuses the house was done, but it wasn't. So where's all his money going? I don't know. He obviously did some really bad things and is in big financial trouble.
My guess is drug abuse.
KML, OMG that would be horrible if he's into drugs. I hope that's not true. He's a physician dealing with people's lives every day. I never thought of that before.
Oh honey. Your h sounds like he was snatched by the same gremlin that took mine and maybe many others. He too was as far away from this type of man as possible, and he detested anybody like that. He also, like yours is cheery and upbeat with others but i am treated like the enemy. Maybe we just remind them of their own guilt too much that they can’t stand it and don’t know how to behave us.
You saying about having frequent moments of not being able to take any more is totally normal at the beginning, slowly, although the pain might still be there, it no longer impacts your mood or the day so much. I’m like caz, I frequently dance around with the kids. Might kids are part Asian and part Latin so music is a big thing in both cultures. Things like taking a walk and breathing in that fresh air are so good for you. You might initially feel like it’s hard work to get out, but once you do it’s guaranteed to boost your mood. Really take in your surroundings too, distract your mind. Is there any groups you can take your daughter to? Any stay and play? Seeing your daughter laugh is the best medicine.
You’re being so strong, you’re doing great and we are all here for you
Physicians are not immune to addictions. Anesthesiologists especially have been known to get into trouble. Access and a sense of superiority (as in, I won't get addicted because I know too much) can lead to a fall.
Nicole
Your description sounds like an addiction of some kind. Gambling or drugs (you would notice alcohol or food I guess)
With the G it was gambling.
This stuff is covert too and can cause permanent character change.
I hope you took pictures of the house in its current state.
V
Porn is pretty much free. Don't know how you could blow that much money.
Paid specialist porn and strip clubs
V
I was thinking of some sort of substance abuse as well. The incredible mood swings, the refusal to financially support you guys, blocking you from the house all points to something. I will be honest, I really thought WH was abusing something when he was in his Affair, I sometimes wished I could have chalked it up to that. In the end he was making those horrible choices stone cold sober. When will you know if you need surgery?
All, it's so hard to say all these negative things about my husband. I hope this forum will be forever anonymous, but I do believe my husband is addicted to porn and shopping. I've seen a lot of evidence of that. He also started drinking coffee two years ago and now lives on it. He literally can't go more than an hour or two without it. He was, and might still be using this "explosive energy" drink before he goes to the gym to give him a euphoric rush of caffeine while he lifts weights. I don't know about drugs but maybe I'll stop by his house again this week or next to check. Not because it would make any difference in the divorce process but maybe just to have the knowledge that there's something more happening.
There's still a chance there's another woman in the picture and he's spending money on her. Or maybe prostitutes. Who knows. I did see a bottle of doxycycline on his desk last week when I stopped by and I couldn't figure out what that could be for. I checked to see what all it treats and STD's are on the list.
My thinking about my future is changing a little. With this divorce and move happening I find myself not wanting to spend 10 or 20 years single. I'll be 40 in April and I badly want to share my life with someone. I'd be so happy to have someone with whom to go out, to call at night when my daughter goes to bed, and to possibly fall in love with. I still can't imagine that person. My husband is very handsome and smart and funny and there's no one else like him. The only person who can compare is my best male friend, who's married, but who has consistently been there for me, bought me gifts, made me feel special, and even now calls me within a half second when I text him. His wife is my other best friend. They live far away but they've been helping me a lot. My male friend is the perfect guy I guess, not my husband. Too bad he and I couldn't have fallen in love 20 years ago when we first met but we didn't see each other that way. We're just friends. I wish so badly there'd be someone else out there. I wish to fix myself to find that guy but that's going to take a long time.
By the way, I meant to say my husband *was* very smart, handsome, funny, etc... He still is that way to everyone else, and he's still handsome and smart to me, but he's no longer an option for me so I have to say "was" instead of "is."
Oh Sara I don't know yet about surgery. I had a gastric emptying study today. I have to have an MRA and a CT scan next week and more bloodwork. So far no one thinks I need surgery and while I kind of wished surgery would take away all the pain I guess it's too much of a gamble. I have constant upper right pain and feel convinced it's my gallbladder but the diagnosis so far is erosive gastritis and duodenitis. Can that cause upper right pain? The stomach is in the middle so it doesn't seem like it can. I don't even notice the pain as much anymore because I'm in such a state of grief over my husband but do wish there'd be a final diagnosis before I move.
Nicole, I know you're feeling down, and I wish I could give you a big hug.
As long as you are open to the idea of finding someone else to share your life with, you will. Don't lose hope. Get yourself healthy, physically, emotionally, financially first.
I think you need to focus on YOU. You are valuable in your own right. You have tremendous self worth. When you get thru this, suitors will appear, but you have to stop worrying about finding someone else. I know it's hard, and we all miss that closeness with our spouses, but there is light at the other end of the tunnel.
Nicole, I lived with gastritis for years and years. The pain was unbearable. It would come in the middle of the night and I couldn't get comfortable in any position. I could barely breathe. Without fail it would pass in about 15-20 min. I just had to outlast it.
I also had a gallbladder attack and had a golf ball sized stone removed (I still have it somewhere in a specimen container). That was an acute pain that left no doubt about what it was.
I've also had an appendicitis they thought was Crohn's. What a relief to discover it was simply the former. That was similar to the gallbladder pain, but since it was already out I knew it wasn't the culprit.
I've always been healthy except for these gut issues. No fun at all. I hope they figure it out.
If it's not H pylori related, have you had your B12 level checked? An autoimmune cause of B12 deficiency can causes gastritis.
Sorry for the quick hijack, but I found out I have pernicious anemia a few years ago and started treatment for it. Never had gastritis again. KML, you are brilliant. I wish you had been my doc at the time.
It's so overlooked. The excellent book Could It Be B12? is a good reference.
Cherry, yes it's so hard when they change for us but are the same for others. It's nice to know someone else understands what that's like.
Jim, thanks. I would accept your hug. I know it'll be a long time before I can think about meeting someone new. I know I have to work on myself and put my daughter first. I wish there'd be some way to skip past this horrible nightmare though.
Ownit, did your gastritis ever go away? Was your gallbladder removed? How are you feeling now?
KML, I'll ask about having B12 checked. It's not H Pylori in my case. I was thinking maybe a bad gallbladder is causing the gastritis but the HIDA scan was normal and the ultrasound is normal...no one seems to agree that the gallbladder can cause those problems.
Nicole:
I had gastritis attacks from age 18 until about 3 years ago (and the last 3 years have been the most stressful of my life by a mile thanks to H). Until KML made the B12 connection, I never got that it was related to my B12 problem. I lack something called intrinsic factor, which I discovered during that bad bout with my guts when they thought I had Crohn's. I've always been iron-deficient, but didn't know I was B12 deficient until then. Normally this is a problem for older people. As soon as I started getting B12 shots (people with my issue don't do as well with oral meds) the gastritis went away and never came back.
I did have my gallbladder removed about 15-20 years ago. The only problem I've ever had is the typical paying for eating greasy meals.
My guts are much better now.
KML inspired me to make an appointment today to resume my B12 shots (I've been slacking off in all this drama).
OwnIt, don't slack on the B12! And taking a sublingual B12 daily in between shots can help keep your levels up. You should really read that book by Pacholok, a must read for pernicious anemia patients.
I know, I got paranoid and took a few sublingual tonight. I've downloaded the book!
Here are some hugs
Hug
Hug
Hug
Big hug
Even bigger hug than the last big hug
V
Ownit, that's great to hear you found a solution to your gastritis. I'll check about B12 although I've been on a PPI for 10 weeks so that might have already made my B12 levels lower. It's hard to know what they would be normally.
Vanilla, thanks for the hugs! Sometimes there are no words for the pain and a hug is our only way of supporting one another.
All, I posted this on another thread but please can you tell me if you're already divorced - did your spouse ever come back sorry or regretful after filing for divorce? It doesn't appear there's anything I can do to stop my husband now, but I wish so badly that I wouldn't have to spend the rest of my life with him angry at me and thinking of me as the worst mistake of his life. If he was sorry at some point I feel like I might be able to feel some peace, although I guess in most cases the person who wants the divorce isn't sorry.
Nicole, I'm sorry, but your spouse probably won't ever say he was sorry. Some might, but from what you've said, I don't ever see it coming from him.
I hope you can get past caring whether he's angry at you or thinks marrying you was a mistake.
Hi Nicole,
I don't think your H is angry at you or believes your marriage was a mistake...he's saying these things to make himself feel better at what he's doing/how he's behaving. At least subconsciously.
From what you've described of him in the past...this isn't like him, so maybe he's coming from a place of addiction, guilt etc. Who knows? But don't be concentrating on him, or worrying about what he'll feel in the future...your little family unit is what's important now.
I know it hurts, it's fresh and raw...but letting go is seriously the best medicine you can give yourself right now. It's working for me.
Huge hugs Nicole xx
Hi Jim and Caz,
Thanks for your input. It turns out my husband has to go overseas this coming week to escort his father to his home country to visit a dying relative. I hope while he's gone he at least reflects on everything. It's not that I want to concentrate on him, but I still have to work with him through the divorce process, deal with him as our daughter grows up, and depend on him financially until I'm working so his mental state and actions towards me do affect me right now. If he wants a divorce I have no choice about that, but I wish it could be done in a more humane manner.
All,
Similar to many of you here, I've been discovering more and more things that I did wrong that pushed my husband away. These past few days amidst the grief and sorrow I started to see my own actions more clearly. Over the past two years, after my husband returned the first time after he left, I pressured him a lot to fix the marriage and I kept waiting for him to do it. I was so fixated on him doing something to fix what he'd done that I wasn't a nice person. I made a lot of mean and sarcastic comments, he'd try to kiss my cheek and I'd turn it away, he'd come home from work and say hi and I'd look down and say nothing, he'd ask my opinion about something with the house he was building and I'd insult him for spending too much money and say he should cancel the idea....the list goes on.
Just recently I told my husband he's not even 2% of what a father should be. It's somewhat true but how can I expect my husband to want to return home to fix the marriage when this is how I've been?
I'm not excusing my husband's actions. He shouldn't have left the first time, shouldn't have had an affair, and shouldn't have prioritized money and the new house over his family. He said those terrible things about our daughter recently and he's not paying all the bills. All those things are bad.
But now I'm left to see my role and how I was bitter, mean, sarcastic, miserable, and made him suffer for what he did.
These realizations came too late. My husband already wants a divorce. I sent him several long apologies these past few days citing specific things I did wrong and how sorry I am. I don't even know if he read them. He didn't respond. Now he's on his way overseas.
Suddenly I realized that my husband did love me. I thought back over the past ten years and remembered all the things that he's done to support me. Who he is currently is nothing like the man that I married, but he did try. Up until recently he would apologize profusely for anything he did wrong.
Now my husband is fed up and wants a divorce. As if my heart wasn't already broken now it's even more broken. I love my husband. He's not an abuser. He chose to have an affair, got caught up in shopping and being financially irresponsible, and he has impulse problems and maybe an addiction to shopping or pornography, all of which are serious issues, but a lot of his frustration and anger may come from the breakdown of our marriage.
Is it really too late? Is there any realistic chance of reconciling before or after the divorce?
Either way I will work on changing myself. I know I have to let go of my husband but there is this last small glimmer of hope that is so hard to let go of. Yes, he's done all those bad things but now I feel like I could actually carry out the LRT but is it too late? I don't think I did well at all with the LRT these past few months because I was sick and psychologically not stable, but my guess is most of you will say it's too late now.
Is there ever a case where two people get together again after divorce? I feel deeply sorry and devastated that I pushed him away further until he decided on divorce. It was a downward spiral and I would have done anything to see how my actions contributed but now it's too late.
Nicole. Take a breath. Stop and breathe.
We all made mistakes. MR is a two way street. Stop blaming yourself for it all. He made the decision to cheat. You didn't force his hand. He did that.
I know I screwed up a few things too (not really that much), but I never made my W go have sex with another man. She did that completely on her own just like your WH did that on his own.
Yes, some people do get remarried after divorce. If you two do that, remember that it will have to be like a completely different relationship.
Is it too late for LRT to make a difference? Maybe it is. I started LRT in the middle of the second week and I'm still getting a D. I've been LRT/GAL/180 for 2 months, and it has not made a change in my WW's behavior. I just had to learn to accept that D is part of my life now. You will learn to accept it too, if it happens.
Stop blaming yourself for it all. Go read my threads. I had the same thoughts. Read what AH, Vanilla, Surfer, Sandi, the Joes, and everyone else told me when I was in a similar place. I think it was in my 3rd or 4th thread when I was taking responsibility for making my W into WW.
It simply isn't all your fault, so stop beating yourself up about it.
Nicole... It may be too late to save your MR. That's a realistic possibility. But it's not too late for Nicole to become the best Nicole, the best mother, and the best person that she can be.
I am trying to learn this too... Our marriages are not our lives. Our lives can INCLUDE marriage, but they don't HAVE to. It has been hard for me to put this into action within my life lately, but I am doing my best and so will you.
Hi Nicole,
It's good to have some insight into your own role in the marriage. What you've described is hurt and anger...two very understandable things after an affair. Don't beat yourself up...learn from it.
Nothing excuses your H's actions and words...you didn't make him do or say these things. Please keep that in your mind going forth.
You've sent your apologies, he's got time to read and digest them. Give him space now. Give yourself space. Continue on the road to being the best you, you can be. Find your happiness without him right now, who knows what the future will bring. Letting go in a loving way doesn't mean giving up...it just gives you both time to breathe.
Just stop blaming yourself. It's a normal natural cycle of emotions but try and find your happiness. xx
Thanks Joe and Caz. Here's the thing - my husband and I have been through this before. He left two years ago and because at that time I had confidence, thanks to my excellent marriage counselor, and I was working, and I had a close social network, and I was healthy at that time I was quite strong and my husband came back within eight weeks. He said he was so impressed by how well I was doing. He said he was so sorry, he was so depressed, he couldn't live without his family. It was like a dream-come-true. But then I waited, and waited... He was busy and didn't want to talk about what had happened. Now looking back I understand because he was ashamed and he didn't want to face what he had done. He didn't know how to move on because I held it over his head in every part of our life. I became frustrated that he wasn't doing anything to fix it, but what I should have done was spend time with him. I should have smiled, hugged him, let him go out freely and feel comfort in knowing he had chosen to come back. I didn't do those things though. I was a miserable, sad person who rejected anything he did do.
Now he's gone again, and this time everyone it is my fault. It wasn't my fault that he left the first time and went wild and had an affair. But now he's tired because nothing he did made me happy and he didn't have the strength to talk about his affairs because he knew I'd just keep punishing him.
Guys all I want in the world is my husband but in this latest turn of events, particularly me raising the topic of divorce two weeks ago, I believe my husband really is done because he's tired of all this.
I'm tired too but I just can't bear to think that I didn't appreciate my second chance with my husband. After my husband came back two years ago I stopped seeing a counselor, I stopped reading self-help books, I forgot everything I had been doing to work on myself because I was so happy and now my husband is gone again.
I'd do anything in the world to have one more chance. Just one chance to hold my husband again and to smile at him. He left to go overseas and he didn't even stop by to see our daughter or say goodbye. He didn't respond to my apologies.
I canceled my medical test this morning because I couldn't handle it. I was crying on the phone with scheduler telling her I'm having a personal crisis and can't make it.
Please someone tell me there could be one more chance.
I've never felt this awful. As I said to Joe on his thread I lived and worked in the middle of war zones and I was strong. I lived in a normal house in a normal neighborhood with local guys guarding the building and I dealt with Al Qaeda and all the different militia groups up close and personal. That was dangerous because many Westerners were getting abducted and getting their heads cut off. But I was comfortable with that risk. Now I can't even wake up and take out the trash.
How can I ever get through this? Caz, Joe, Sara, Vanilla, everyone who's been helping - is there no way to exchange numbers or facebook profiles? I'm talking to my friends and therapist but unless you're going through this, or have been through it, you just can't understand. I was telling one of my friends who got divorced a long time ago I had no idea how hard it was because she looked ok from the outside.
There is one divorce support group here where I live but I don't have anyone to watch my daughter at that time.
IF there could just be hope of one more chance with my husband, even if by that point I'd be the one to say it couldn't work, I believe I could start to feel better. But this feeling that it's too late forever is killing me literally.
Sorry guys you've said so many things to help, you've generously shared your time and advice and I don't mean to sound like I don't value it. I'm clinging to your every word. But right now all I can think about is how I blew my second chance and don't have another one. It's so hard just to exist right now.
I know how it is. You desperately want someone to tell you how the situation should be handled in order to create a certain outcome. But that's beyond what any of us are capable of.
By all accounts my WW should be begging for me back within the next few months. Will that happen? Probably NOT! I had to become OK with that. And I am.
Don't blame yourself completely. Yes, we all played a part in how things happened. But it is not ALL your fault that things are this way now.
Nicole, I can't tell you that you have another chance. That's up to your H at this point. But you will one day be OK without him. I am guilty of trying to rush my own personal grieving process, and I can tell you that it doesn't work. You have to take the time. It is crappy but true.
Nicole, you are a strong woman. You will get through this.
Hi Nicole, I think you are being hard on yourself sweetie. From where I am sitting, you didn't fail to take the opportunity you were given and you have both had your part in getting to the current situation.
No-one posting can tell you your marriage is going to be healed. We just don't know how things will unfold. However, I can tell you that you will be healed and that your life will be full and happy again, regardless of whether you continue to be married to this man.
In DBing terms, sending him long apology letters and desperately owning your part is likely to just drive him further away. It is time to put on your own oxygen mask, accept him as gone - at least for now - and start moving painfully forward. Even if it is just taking baby steps, a baby step forward on the right path is a step forward, no matter how small.
What is the right path? Looking after you, focusing on your child, getting yourself well again, being kind to yourself, rebuilding your life with him gone, securing your future, letting him be, making new friends in time, working in time. All things that are within your gift, even if you move towards them slowly and with faltering steps, because you feel so fragile.
BTW, I don't post must on FB, but I believe many on the forum do post on the Divorce Busting area of FB. That's all I know, but I know it may be possible to connect with others IRL if you have a look..
So, I'd love for your next posting to have nothing to do with your H - he's not central just now - truly I hope you can see this. Let it be all about you and how you are going to move a few steps forward in the coming week. What tiny bits of progress are you going to make - regardless of him and what he may do.
I recall realising myself that - even if my marriage were to be restored - I had to know that I could make it alone - otherwise I felt the fear would always be there...
Food for thought hopefully - and BTW - Divorce care is a fantastic option. If you contact them and let them know your dilemma, they may be able to help. I still volunteer with my divorce care group and I'm sure we would look after someone's child at the meeting venue, if it helped them attend the group...
You will feel stronger and brighter soon Nicole, I promise you xx
Joe, yeah, I know no one can make any assurances but I feel I can't accept that it's over yet. Maybe I'll re-commit to the LRT for the remaining weeks that I'm married, in case there's .05% hope and to try to develop a better roadmap for myself.
Sotto, I sent the apologies because I have nothing to lose. My husband already decided he's done, but when I made those realizations I felt compelled to apologize. Even if I can't change my husband's position I want him to know I'm sorry. I did also make contact with Divorce Care in the new city where I'm planning to move and already talked with their group leader. Thanks for mentioning them!
Thanks for the tip about the DB forum on Facebook. There are some great resources there I didn't know about! I created a different facebook profile and posted some comments there. If anyone wants to connect there you'll know who I am.
Nicole. Did you write one letter or several? My DB coach said I should write an apology letter. No explanations or narrative type writing. Just recognizing what I did wrong during M. She told me to keep it short as possible.
And remember that marriage just a institution and at the end of the day it's just a piece of a paper. Institutions can be brought down but they can also be rebuild. Don't lose hope.
Petri, I wrote three e-mails, two one night and one the next day. Then I stopped communicating since then.
Petri, you're also right about marriage as an institution. I'd be so happy to date my husband or fix our relationship in any way possible even if we have to get divorced. It's unbearable to simply lose the most important person in my life, second to my daughter, and think that it can never be fixed. I'd do anything now to stay married after thinking further, but assuming my husband still wants a divorce, I wish to know how I can seek his forgiveness and possibly hope he'll seek mine as well.
If I had been here in September/October alot of people would have torn me apart. All the texts, phone calls etc...oh boy. If I only knew what I know now. I've accepted that our M is out from my hands. I do love my W still but, right now if she would show remorse and wanted to save our M, I'm not sure if I could do that.
Nicole, a very hard part of my own journey was the realization that I wasn't the greatest husband on earth. The realization that I contributed to the collapse of my marriage. It wasn't all WAW's fault.
I think at one point or another, most of us here have had that epiphany. There were things we all wish we had done differently, that would have changed the outcomes of our marriages. For me, it was a number of small realizations. I have apologized to her about them. At first it was about winning her back, but it became more about clearing my conscience and redressing a wrong. It probably didn't help my DB efforts, but at least I feel better about myself.
Did this realization come to late? For me, I think it did. For you? Who knows. No one can tell you that. But hopefully, the new Nicole will learn from the mistakes of the past.
Please do something for yourself today. Let us know how you are moving forward. As Sotto said, baby steps....
Hi Nicole,
Please don't panic. I can feel the same panic in you I felt many years ago. I so wanted to make amends for my part in our marriage downfall.
But you've said your piece, and I'm sure you worded it brilliantly. He has those emails and he can revisit them at any time if he wishes to. He knows you're sorry for your part, he may not be ready to hear it but you've said it and it's out there.
The best thing you can do for yourself and your marriage is to look to your future. To your happiness. Find your joy in the small things. Take the focus off H. I'm not saying he's not important but you're MORE important right now. I know you want and desperately need guidance to do or say the right thing, and that's understandable. But deep breaths...
By lifting the pressure off him and your marriage you'll be giving both of you a much needed break, some fresh perspective.
I know it sounds sappy, but self love right now is the way forward. I wish you the very best xx
OMG girl - please stop this!
You are blaming yourself because in your magical thinking, if only you had done X,Y, or Z he would have come home.
Truth is, this is about HIM! This is about a guy who cannot spend time with his daughter and actually told you he wished she hadn't been born! This is about a guy who is shirking his financial duty to his wife and child and has something seriously going wrong with him judging by the state of the house (my bet is still on an addiction of some sort).
If he had trouble with the guilt after returning home he could have said "hey I really want this to work, let's go to counseling together, let's go away on s romantic vacation, etc etc etc. instead you got a guy who came home but didn't make a sincere effort to make it up to you and isn't self aware. And is either gambling or doing drugs or spending money on some other addiction by the sound of it.
Legitimately remorseful guts who just can't live with your disapproval of their affair do NOT treat their daughters like this. Pull off the freaking rose colored glasses. You've been too much of a doormat with him already. He's not who you think he is. Let go and get an attorney to look after your financial rights.
Nicole, please listen to Kml...
KML, I was moving on two years ago when he left the first time. He saw it and came home. That's when I mistakenly stopped working on myself. I should have not let him come back until it was fixed. Even then I should have used a different strategy. It's comforting to hear that it's not my fault, and that it's about him, but I also have to learn from my mistakes because I made some. If I had done things differently would we be happily married and would everything be perfect? Probably not, but if I had set strict conditions for him coming back, then welcomed him back with love and happiness when he 'passed the test," I believe we would have stood a chance to work through things at least better in a way that didn't lead us to a total crisis.
We each know our own situations best. Looking back, I believe I should have been a more positive person and said to my husband, "imagine how great our life could be if we get help and fix this?" Instead I'd go to him crying at night saying "why aren't you fixing it? When are you going to fix it? How could you do this to us?" Then he'd shut down and close his door and we'd both be miserable.
I've been a negative, spiteful wife which yes, is normal, but that's not productive. I'm not making excuses for my husband's actions but to blame him alone and tell everyone all the bad things he's done without looking at myself is unfair.
My husband has been a terrible father and husband. I hope someday he's sorry because how can anyone do what he's done? But being a nagging, miserable, sad, negative wife didn't help the situation.
That's what I'm trying to communicate. It's hard for me to change from a negative person to a positive person just as I'm sure it's hard for my husband to recognize that he has an addiction or whatever is wrong with him.
My husband's last words before he separated again on September 1st were "please let us have six months to find ourselves to save our marriage."
No matter what it's sad. There's an innocent child who's family is broken and she has no siblings or extended relatives close to her for support. All of my hopes and dreams are gone. So much has been lost. I have to find a way to be more positive but I just don't think saying "screw my husband, I'll be better off without him" is the path I'll take. I'd rather work towards finding a way for my husband and I to forgive each other and make peace. If that's not possible, I'd at least like to recognize how I could have improved the marriage even if I couldn't prevent divorce.
I'll keep reading what you wrote in any case and keep trying to ask myself how my thinking is wrong. Thanks KML!
Nicole, you just aren’t getting this. THERE IS NOTHING YOU COULD HAVE DONE BECAUSE THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU.
If you want to “do it right this time” then let him go. Detach 100%. Figure out why you would be willing to accept so little while you blame yourself for his problems. Do this so you don’t unwittingly teach your daughter to put her needs behind everyone else for the rest of her life.
Ownit, yeah I'm not feeling convinced that there's nothing I could have done, but because you all have more experience I'll tell myself it's true. I see his problems as separate from mine, that the things I did wrong don't excuse what he did wrong. It's going to take some effort to change my mindset. I'll let him go, but still hope someday, whenever it might be, that there could be some kind of peace and forgiveness. I'll try to let go of that hope as well, but I'm not quite there yet.
Nicole, if you're right, he will come back when he sees you doing your own thing and being the best person you can be. Nothing wrong with striving to be that. But I'm telling you right now, you have rose colored glasses on and are not seeing the truth of who he is. NO BASICALLY GOOD GUY who just has a temporary lapse of judgment and then is discouraged in reconciliation because his wife can't let it go, SAYS THOSE THINGS ABOUT HIS OWN CHILD!!!!
I've seen lots of cases here where a reconciliation is attempted and the wife can't let it go or stop punishing their husband. The husbands in those cases do not behave like yours!
What you had instead was a failed reconciliation because HE wasn't actually committed to the idea. He lapsed back in to his affair or his addiction - this happens a lot.
Your life is not ruined. You can plan new dreams and get back on your feet and open up a whole new life for you and your little girl. You cannot fix the fact that her father does not care about her, but you can seek a whole new life with new people in it that can form a friend/family around her.
My sister's sociopathic ex left her when their daughter was 5. My sister went on to marry a good guy who was a good dad to my niece - went to all her games and band performances, fixed her car, etc. My niece calls her biological father "the sperm donor" because he's been such a poor father figure in her life. Thank god she had a great step-dad and an uncle she is close to.
Get an attorney, get an order for temporary support, get the financial support that is due to you and your daughter, then get out of there as soon as you can. If you are meant to be with him let HIM do the hard work of getting over his addictions and making it up to you and your daughter. You were not unreasonable to expect him to do things to make you feel safe and cherished when he came home - he didn't do them because he already had one foot out the door again.
And I think taking time to focus on you and not your marriage is the best thing you can do right now.
It's not moving on or away from your H, it's moving forward to finding who you really are, what makes you happy etc. It's a good thing, growth. Growth is always good. Try to find optimism. Not for your marriage...and I'm not saying discard hope for your marriage...but optimism with life in general. I can feel a change in you, and that's good. As you said, find the positives.
Hi Nicole, I think you've had some really good advice these past couple of days. Plenty of food for thought hopefully.
The general theme? Step back and let go of your marital situation just now. Offer it up to God or the wider universe as out of your control.
And turn the focus inward. How can you best care for yourself and your little one just now? How can you start to rebuild, calm anxieties, seek the small joys in life, manage the ruminations.
This is the path to take I promise you xx
Ownit, KML, Caz, Sotto, thank you again for your input. I'll leave him alone and try to stabilize. I'll write more when I have some kind of positive update. Thanks again. You were here for me in the worst time of my life. I really, really appreciate it.
Oh honey, i feel for you, i really do. I’ve been there, I’m sure we all have. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, looking back we can always see things we could have done better. Learn from it and move on. There’s been loads of good advise here for you. Take it in, breathe and focus on you. I wrote a letter at some point for my wh, i said my piece and i left it there. You’ve done that now, he can read it and absorb it in his own time.
Cliche, and you’ve been told this , but it will get easier if you focus on you. I didn’t believe this much myself to start, you feel the hurt will never ease, but it does. But you need to focus on the here and now and you. Please please take a bit of time to do some you things. Take your daughter out and enjoy seeing the smile on her face.
No one can tell you what the future may hold, he might come back, he might not. But you must work on making yourself happy- you owe it to yourself and your daughter. I know how you feel about feeling bad for your child bringing her up without the mum/dad setup, but believe me- she will be happier with just one happy parent than two unhappy. You’re going to set the example to her if what a woman is and how a woman should be treated. You don’t want her to think it’s okay for a husband to ignore/ cheat on his spouse.
Take care of yourself. Breathe, remember the old oxygen mask speech. Do something for you, anything- whatever makes you feel good about you.
Nicole, how are you doing?
Yeah, now that I'm visiting for a spell I'd like to see how you're doing too.
Nicole, I hope you're doing OK and have been spending time getting stronger than ever!
Cherry, Jim, and Joe, thanks a lot for checking-in. I said I'd write again when there was something positive to report because I didn't want to keep writing about the same issues without progress.
Cherry, your advice is solid and I'm trying to do what I can - reaching out to my career network, going to therapy, talking with friends every day, exercising, doing activities with my daughter, etc.. I don't have any money at all at the moment so I can't really go shopping or buy a lot of stuff, but this is the first time in my adult life I've been without an income so hopefully in a few months my financial situation will improve. I reserved a new apartment in a new building in the city where I'm planning to move, sent an application for a new school for my daughter, and told everyone there I'm coming back. Nothing really makes me feel any better yet. The hardest part is still just feeling totally alone.
All, last week I apologized in person to my husband for everything I did wrong but he was resistant and emotionless. He said he still wants a divorce no matter what he. He started to say "maybe in a few years...." and then stopped.
I haven't done anything to check what he's really up to all this time, but he left to go overseas to take his father to his home country with a stopover in Dubai. The story didn't add up to me so I really had no idea where he actually went. One day, a few days ago, I just decided to check an old facebook account that I new he had years ago. His password to everything is the same so I just quickly checked. I saw that he's been actively searching the name of woman here in our current city the past two months. I went to her profile and saw she's a 26 year old nurse with whom he works. I searched her name on google and found an Instagram account with freshly uploaded pictures of "Dubai 2018." So obviously he already moved on with a woman 14 years younger than I. Most of the pictures on facebook are of her in a bikini holding a bottle of beer partying with friends. So I guess that's it. At some point in December he moved on.
I will go through the divorce process since I have no choice. Sorry I don't have any positive updates. My general impression of DB is that it doesn't work, I'm sorry to say. Not that I did a great job with it this time around, but it seems most on this board end up getting divorced. I believe it's just too easy to get divorced in the Western world with our values of freedom and independence. It's just too easy to say "I'm not happy so I'll just go dump my family and pursue a fun new life." Having traveled to a lot of developing countries in Asia, Africa, Middle East, and Latin America, I have a much stronger preference for cultures where divorce is saved for extreme situations. Yes, a lot of people might be unhappily married in those places, but our culture of just walking out the door and abandoning our loved ones isn't necessarily better.
By the way, I know it was wrong to check my husband's account, but I've always been of the mindset that in marriage we shouldn't have secrets from each other. Now of course my husband's whole life is a secret from mine, but finding out this new information was worth it to some degree because now I know why he stopped coming over in mid-December and gave up.
NicoleR, I'm so sorry to hear about the latest developments. It is definitely time to focus on yourself. I hope you land a good job soon!
Thanks Subitai. It's really my daughter who needs focus since she's always my highest priority, but I'll try to focus on myself. I still struggle with figuring out what that means because nothing I do for myself makes me feel any better. At this stage in life (39) with a small child I have no interest in being alone or living the single life. The future just feels scary. I don't have a choice though. It's hard when well intentioned friends who are happily married say, "you should celebrate that he's gone!" Or, "you deserve better!" It's easy to say that when you're not in that position, but there's nothing to celebrate about a family breaking apart. And sure, I deserve better, but what I wanted is my husband. He was the best for me (before all this started).
Oh Nicole.... I don't know what to say. I know it explains a lot of his behavior, but I also know it doesn't make you feel any better.
You are doing the right things, focusing on yourself and your daughter. You will feel better, but it's going to take a long time. Even yesterday I was sad and missing my wife, but it gets better and easier. Keep yourself busy, and enjoy your daughter.
I wish I had something more helpful to tell you. Be strong, for yourself and your daughter.
Thanks Jim. I'll keep trying. I don't know how you're surviving alone after being with your wife for 26 years. It must be like missing half of your body.
I need to start a new thread but there's something wrong with my laptop. It won't let me cut-and-paste the link to this thread. I guess I'll create one without a link but I don't know if this link will disappear? It's bad timing because I just wrote those new updates....
I hear you about the single life. My WaW has made remarks about how I should start dating, or how she should ask one of her single friends to take me out. I... just have so little interest in that. I don't want to date. I want to focus on my kids and myself and hope that my WaW and I can forgive each other and reconnect. I do not want to 'move on'.